[Script Info] Title: [Events] Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ok, welcome back to the second session\Nof the day. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's going to be Alexander Wirt talking\Nabout salsa.debian.org. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Applause] Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you, good morning. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I usually don't give talks in english,\Nso please be nice to me. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,However, I'm here. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I want to talk today about our journey\Nfor Alioth Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is still running, but not for long\Nanymore, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to our new service, salsa. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I want to get a little bit into the history\Nof old things Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and what we have already achieved,\Nwhat we still need to achieve Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and what are our plans for the future. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Let's start with the basic things,\Nwho am I. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I am the guy who rejects the mails\Non lists.debian.org, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I am a listmaster. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I am the guy that rejects your backports. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I am the backports ftp master. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I am the guy that will destroy\Nalioth.debian.org. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For the last ten years Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Applause] Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I was an admin by accident of\Nalioth.debian.org. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is another story I will tell you\Nin a few minutes. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Beside from that, I work as an OpenSource\Nconsultant at credativ, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is a small company in Germany\Nwhich is specialized in OpenSource, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we only do OpenSource consulting\Nin Germany. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We do what today is called DevOps,\Nwe do every kind of consulting. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you do something with OpenSource,\Nwe are probably the ones you can talk with. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I am a father of two wonderful girls, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they're not here unfortunately, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but otherwise I wouldn't be able\Nto work. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And in my little bit spare time, I do\Nrole playing games and Tabletop games. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In theory there should be a picture now. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's a picture missing,\NI don't know why, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which should tell "We need you". Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A little bit of advertisement, if you\Nwant to do OpenSource work in Germany, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,paid, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you need a job, please talk to me. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We are always looking for good people,\Nespecially in C development, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,kernel development, but also of course\Nconsulting. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So please talk to me. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Some steps in history. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Some years ago, ???\N2008, 2009, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I told the alioth channel Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Hey, if you need help, I can help with\Nsystem administration, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not the GForge stuff which is running\Nabove, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but if you need help, tell me." Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Audience] Big mistake Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One or two years went by,\Nand step by step Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all alioth admins left. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We were alone in the channel. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And around that time, I detected Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Hey, I have sudo permissions\Nand I'm admin" Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Somebody made me an admin. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, I had to decide that I will be\Nthe person that is the future alioth admin Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I stepped in. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So it was the beginning of our alioth\Njourney. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then, in DebConf15, we had a long\N'Birds of a Feather' Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where we talked about several security\Nproblems in collab-maint, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,some of you are maybe not aware of it, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but since we use git at filesystem level\Non alioth, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we are introducing a number of interesting\Nsecurity problems Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like if someone writes a hook, that hook\Ngets executed every time someone pushes. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So you have basically shell access. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And of course you execute it as\Nyour own uid. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, if some DM (Debian Maintainer) or even\Nnot DM, nearly the whole world Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has write access to collab-maint, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,drops some hooks in, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it can make you execute code on Alioth\Nat your uid, which is a problem. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We did some things to solve that problem,\Nbut the main problem remained. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, along that time, we decided that we\Nwould need a successor for git.debian.org. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,At that point, we are talking about gitolite Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which we evaluated at that time. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,However, as ??? Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Two years went into the land and\Nnothing real happened, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we just played with it. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then, May 2017, a thread comes up,\N"Moving away from fusionforge". Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What nobody was really aware of, is that\Nalioth is on a Wheezy machine Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and Wheezy is ??? out of security\Nsupport end of the month. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So time was running up. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The thread was long as usual on\Ndebian-devel and Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we decided to do a few steps, like\Nevaluating things Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and in June 2017, I did a survey about\Nour new alioth services. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was clear at that point that I wouldn't\Nbe able to maintain all the things Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,alioth had in the future Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so we decided to just bring over\Nthe important things. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What is important? For everyone,\Neverything else is important Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so I decided to do a survey which was\Npretty successful Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with a few hundreds submissions. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then, in… Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then we evaluated… "we" as probably "me", Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,evaluated a few solutions, named pagure,\Nwhich is the git solution Fedora is using, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is a Python thing based on gitolite, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,gitlab, which is the biggest Github\Ncompetitor Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,gogs/gitea, which is some golang-based\Nsmall git service. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,pagure turned out to be not stable enough\Nfor our needs Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we would have to do to much coding\Ninside pagure to use it in our infrastructure Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because pagure is very strongly ???\Nwith the Fedora infrastructure, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,specially its user authentication and\Nuser management stuff. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Gitlab had an other problem called\N"opencore" and Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"contributor license agreement"\Nwhich means Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I and others were not very happy with\Ncontributing code to Gitlab Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is something that will always\Nhappen if you maintain such a service. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And gogs and gitea is nice but it's small Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It will not be able to manage 10,000s\Nof repositories. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Next step happened in August 2017 when\Nwe had a sprint here in Hamburg Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the hackerlab CCC on the other side\Nof the building, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where we talked about it. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,After long discussions, we decided to go\Nwith Gitlab Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because Gitlab, at that point, was\Nthe best solution that was already ready. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We didn't have to adapt too much, we don't\Nneed to patch it Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which turned out it isn't true, but it's\Nan other problem Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It had features like continuous integration\Nready, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it had features like code review ready,\Nwiki pretty good working Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and ??? very scalable\Nin all directions Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Every component is scalable which is\Ngood for us. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is a TODO point, I wanted to add\Nan image about the restaurant Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where we decided on the name "salsa". Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Somebody of you may ask yourself where\Nthe name is coming from. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's a small mexican restaurant\Na few hundred meters from here Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where you can get great burritos and\Nthey have a painting at the back Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the term "salsa" written Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we were deciding on a name which\Njust not describes the type of service on it Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so we wanted… Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes, it's also a sauce. So salsa had sauce. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I wanted to call it Klaus, but we decided\Nagainst it so somebody came up Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the restaurant with the name "salsa"\Nand so it's called salsa. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In the meanwhile, we talked a lot with\Nthe Gitlab people Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which were very kind and helped us\Nwith our problems. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We also talked with them about the CLA\Nproblem and after some discussions, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the lawyer of SPI was also involved, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we made them to remove the CLA\Nand replace it with something better. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Contributing patches to Gitlab is now\Nmuch easier and better Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is something we are very proud of Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Applause] Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And between November and the 25th of\NDecember, we implemented salsa two times Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,First time on ???.debian.net where we had\Nroot but Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,after more discussions we decided having\Nthis maintained at a (debian).org box Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would be better, which made us\N??? ansible stuff Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and develop a ??? to be able to install\Ngitlab as a non-privileged user Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but we did that. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In Christmas, he was able to release\Nsalsa into public beta. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Things went well, which allowed, at the\Nend of January, salsa to leave the beta Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Since then it's official, our official\Ngit successor. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What will happen in the future? Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Oh no, this is already past. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,On May, we disable user and project\Ncreation on alioth. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Still in May, we disabled the not so much\Nused version control systems, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,bazaar, mercurial and darcs Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,On Thursday (May 17th 2018), I disabled\Nprojects web sites. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And this is future, at the end the month, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all other remaining version control systems\Non alioth will get disabled. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So if you have anything running on alioth,\Nstill running on alioth, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,cron jobs are also disabled so\Nyou don't have cron jobs enabled anymore Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Be it whatever you think of, remove it. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,1st of June, alioth will be off, you won't\Nbe able to get any data anymore Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from alioth. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can get the ??? via DSA to get\Nsubsequent backups, that's up to you Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I don't recommend it and they won't\Nlike it. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In June, alioth will come to an end. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It served us well for 10, 15 years, but\Nits time is over. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Some numbers.\NWhere are we now? Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yesterday (May 18th 2018), we had\N23,700 repositories on gitlab, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,3200 users, 400 groups, which sums up\Naround 90GB on disk, which is nice. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For a service running for more or less\N6 months, it's a pretty nice number. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What are our future plans. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,??? Docker registry, by now\Nyou can use external registries Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is working Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can the gitlab registry for\NDocker images Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but it will be nicer to have our own\Nregistry. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is pretty high on my todo list, after\Nalioth is gone. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We want more runners, so you are able to\Nsponsor runners, if you have machines or Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,some money you want to spend on runners,\Nplease tell us. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What are runners? Runners are the things\Nthat are used by Gitlab CI to build code Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or test code, or do things. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can use it to build your packages,\Nyou can use it to autopkgtest you packages Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you can use it to build websites or\Nwhatever you like. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's pretty useful and I think using CI more\Nwill be a big step forward for Debian. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We should really get more into it. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are already some projects like\Nthe reproducible builds, the debci guys Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that are working on such stuff Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and now we have the infrastructure that\Nevery DD, every developer or package maintainer Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,can use it. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's also an other feature called Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"devops" which is based on kubernetes\Nwhich allows you to even Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,deploy and test things properly. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So if you have package which implements\Na web service, you can even run Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,??? kubernetes part which runs\Na web server, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you can test it, you can even record it,\Ndo QA test and so on Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all based on this devops feature which\Nwould also be a nice thing. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,By now, we don't have a kubernetes instance\Nwe can use for it, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so if you have a spare kubernetes instance\Nyou want to offer Debian, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,please talk to us. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And integration with sso.debian.org,\Nwhich is another side project of mine Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and some of ??? students, sitting there. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We want to build a successor for\Nthe command sso.debian.org Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which has a problem that it doesn't have\Na user backend, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the user backend is alioth,\Nyou see the problem Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But it just the case for our guest users. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The official Debian Developers come from\Nthe ldap which will still work, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but we have a problem with guest users,\Nso we currently don't have a way to Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,source for managing those guest users,\Nespecially give additional groups like Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Hey, the user's a DM" Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I would love to give all DMs access to\Nthe Debian group, write access, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I can't currently because I'm not able\Nto ??? Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is something we want to solve with\Nthe new sso.debian.org feature. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sso.debian.org should also develop a new\Nauthentication protocol like OAuth2, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which we will use for salsa but new\Nservices can also rely on, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,??? a way from this certificate stuff\Nwhich is somewhat nice Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but it's not that good integrated in most\Nbrowsers anymore Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it doesn't work that well. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We hope to have, we already have\Na prototype, and we hope to have it live Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,until the end of the summer. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What we left behind. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We don't have shells anymore. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So you won't be able to run any cron jobs\Nor other stuff on salsa and Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,please don't ask, we won't give anyone\Na shell on salsa.debian.org or godard Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is the host hosting it. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We hape APIs, several of them,\NI will show them Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Please use them, we won't run any\Ncron jobs or custom stuff on gitlab, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it was a nightmare on alioth to maintain\Nand to administrate Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I will never, never want to get\Ninto this again. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What we also don't have are custom domains\Nwhich is a feature gitlab has, but Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DSA decided against it, so you will have\Nto live with Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,projectname.pages.debian.net until\Nsomeone decides for that feature. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We also left behind old version…\Nnot so much anymore version control systems Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like darcs, bazaar, subversion which isn't\Na problem, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but we also don't have cvs anymore,\Nwhich may be a surprise for someone Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but Debian is still a heavy user of cvs,\Nespecially for our web site Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and translations. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But maybe they will now migrate faster\Naway from cvs. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They are working on it, I know,\Nthey're working on it for 10 years Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but things are getting faster and\Nthey're making progress Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in migrating away from cvs. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah, ???, that's right,\Nwe also left mercurial, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or whatever people have in their\Nhome directory. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah we also had rcs on alioth, there\Nwere rcs repos, yes. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What we got instead. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We got a bunch of new features\Nwe didn't have before. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, this is such… maybe a start of new\Nways of working in Debian, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we got a bunch of collaboration features. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In the past, collaboration often meant\Nfinding the right mailing list, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sending a patch and hoping. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now we can use merge requests, which\Nallow people to easily fork and Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,modify packages or repositories, and after\Nthey are done, they can just hit a button Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or whatever and create a nice merge\Nrequest which is already heavily used Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by some projects like apt or dak or my own\Nredirector. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That allows ???, the admins\Nof those repositories/projects Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to review code easily, they can add\Ncomments, they can discuss with Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,??? people out of the mailing list. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If people update a bunch and they\Ncommited, those merge requests Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,get updated which is a workflow we are\Nalso using very heavily in our company Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is pretty nice in my eyes. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This also allows contribution to packages\Nfrom outside people Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It lowers the barrier for people to\Ncollaborate with Debian, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is in my eyes a good feature, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,something I always liked on Github and\NI'm happy we are having it too now. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Gitlab has a nice feature of good, well\Ndesigned web frontend, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,some things could be better, but it's\Nalways the case, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but in most cases Gitlab is still\Nblazingly fast Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,except if you've hit some of the bugs\Nin the API Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but that's an other problem. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And you can work with it. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you don't like the web frontend,\Nuse the API, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,nearly everything the web frontend\Nsupports is exposed via the API Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there are also a bunch of\Ncommand line clients Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which can integrate into git to allow\Nthings like merge requests, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,allow you to process merge requests\Nfrom the command line Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if you don't like web frontends. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can also open merge requests\Nby e-mail if you still like it Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you can just hit the right buttons,\Nyou'll get a mail address Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that you can use. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And if you send a patch to that mail address\Nyou will create a merge request, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,some of the not so known research. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Issues. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can track todo items or bugs. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Please, this is not intended for Debian\Npackages, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so please don't replace the BTS Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but using it as an issue tracker or todo\Nlists is great. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We are using it all the time. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We're also having some upstream projects\Non salsa, like sane or ??? Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is ??? Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, they're using issues, that's fine too. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Issues are disabled by default for\Na project, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but every project has ??? to just\Nenable it and to use it. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You have boards where you can organize\Nyour work, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you can add sprints, you can add\Nmilestones and other things, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all the basic stuff you need to have\Nan issue tracker is included. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we also enabled reply by mail so\Nyou don't have to use the web frontend, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you can just use your mail client\Nto reply ??? into gitlab. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can also close issues by merge requests. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, similar to our BTS, Gitlab has\Nthis "closes" feature. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's all the same. So "Close", "Closes"…\Nand so on, it's all the same Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we close here your issues. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can even close issues in other\Nprojects, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so if you have projects related together\Nand you fix something in another project Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you can even close it with that syntax. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can also create issues by mail,\Nwhich is basically the same Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as for merge requests, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you have that "email new issue" button\Nwhere you get a custom mail address you can use Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then you can use that mail address\Nfor the future Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to submit bugs if you don't want to use\Nthe issue tracker. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What we also got are webhooks. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Custom hooks are not anymore possible\Nbecause you don't have access to Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the repositories directly Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but what you can use are webhooks. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Webhooks are common standard in the\Nweb world, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you can use them to react to events\Nin your repository, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,events may be things like someone created\Nan issue, someone created a pull request, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,someone pushed something, someone took\Nsomething, things like that. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And you can use those events to create\NIRC notifications, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we have two IRC bots available for you\Nto use, which is KGB Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and my own irker instance. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can automatically close or tag\Nbugs Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you look into our documentation,\Nwiki.debian.org, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you find a small paragraph about it\Nwhere you can just, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as we did before, if you close a bug\Nand you enable the tag pending, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,tag pending webhook, your bug will\Nbe tagged automatically as pending Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like before if you used the ???\Nhooks on alioth. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And you can also trigger external CI QA\Nsystems, like Jenkins or SonarQube Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or whatever you like to test you code. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In the future, we will also use it\Nfor collab, for the collaboration stuff Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from tincho, where we will just forward\Nevery push happened on the whole salsa system Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so you don't have to configure that\Nmanually, it will happen automatically Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So if you contribute something to Debian,\Nit will come up on collab.debian.net Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you want to provide webhooks but you\Ndon't want to run your own web server, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you can come to us, which means you have\Nto code Ruby. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have our own webhook server implementation\Nfor salsa.debian.org, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is currently also running on salsa,\Nbut that must be the case in the future. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, if you want to run a webhook, provide us\Na patch for our webhook implementation Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is pluggable, so write a plugin which\Nlistens to your webhooks, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,provide a patch, a merge request and we'll\Nhappily add it to our webhook implementation Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so it can be used for everybody. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Documentation is in the wiki. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Currently provided hooks are, as already\Nmentioned, tagpending Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which allows you to tag bug as pending if\Nyou mention them in you changelog Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and some project directly working with\Ncommits are using the close webhook Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which allows you to directly close\Na bug with a commit Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is used by some web servers and\Nother stuff directly used in Debian. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One of the most powerful features we got\Nis Gitlab CI. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Gitlab CI is a system that allows\Na continuous integration, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,continuous development on salsa Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that allows you to build, test and\Neventually deploy software and packages Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from within Gitlab. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can nearly do whatever you want\Nin this CI stuff, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you can compile ???, run linter,\Nrun autopkgtest, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whatever you can imagine you can do. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have two runners provided. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One of it is running as an ???\Non Google cloud, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the other one is hardware sponsored\Nby a sponsor Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and for every CI run, we launch a docker\Ncontainer in it, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can even provide an image you want\Nto use as this one Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then you can do whatever you want\Nwith it. Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But please don't do bitmining or\Nsomething like that, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,be kind to them, we all have to use them\Nand we have only two of them, Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so please, if you want to do something\Nbigger, talk to us Dialogue: 0,9:59:59.99,9:59:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like the KDE people already did.