0:00:00.000,0:00:02.500 ♪ [music] ♪ 0:00:11.230,0:00:13.120 - [Prof. Tyler Cowen][br]So why is the Chinese economy 0:00:13.120,0:00:14.810 in so much trouble right now? 0:00:14.810,0:00:17.350 Well, actually,[br]this shouldn't come as a surprise. 0:00:17.350,0:00:20.640 If you've been watching China[br]over the last several decades, 0:00:20.640,0:00:22.820 you can understand[br]how the current problems 0:00:22.820,0:00:26.150 actually fall out of a lot[br]of their earlier successes. 0:00:26.150,0:00:28.730 The story starts in 1979. 0:00:28.730,0:00:32.170 And in 1979,[br]you have Chinese reformers 0:00:32.170,0:00:35.410 starting to do a good deal[br]to put the Chinese economy 0:00:35.410,0:00:36.870 on a sounder track. 0:00:36.870,0:00:39.760 At that time,[br]Chinese per capita income 0:00:39.760,0:00:42.110 was only a few hundred[br]dollars a year, 0:00:42.110,0:00:44.610 almost everyone was very poor, 0:00:44.610,0:00:48.410 people would ride bicycles[br]rather than driving cars, 0:00:48.410,0:00:51.330 and even starvation[br]was still a possibility. 0:00:51.840,0:00:54.570 So China introduces[br]more private property, 0:00:54.570,0:00:56.560 more capitalistic incentives, 0:00:56.560,0:00:59.130 it privatizes[br]some of its agriculture, 0:00:59.130,0:01:02.270 it allows more manufacturing,[br]more exporting. 0:01:02.270,0:01:06.500 Overall, China starts moving[br]toward being a modern economy, 0:01:06.500,0:01:07.720 a normal economy. 0:01:08.110,0:01:10.400 And once these reforms are underway, 0:01:10.400,0:01:13.360 China is growing[br]at really an astonishing pace. 0:01:13.360,0:01:15.780 For a lot of the last 35 years, 0:01:15.780,0:01:19.440 China has been growing[br]at around 10% a year. 0:01:19.440,0:01:20.600 That's amazing! 0:01:20.600,0:01:22.360 The American economy typically 0:01:22.360,0:01:25.000 doesn't grow[br]at much more than 2% a year. 0:01:25.000,0:01:27.000 At 10% a year growth, 0:01:27.000,0:01:31.100 that means that living standards[br]double about every 7 years. 0:01:31.100,0:01:33.650 So if you go back,[br]you keep on visiting China, 0:01:33.650,0:01:36.460 it's as if every 7 years,[br]every 10 years, 0:01:36.460,0:01:38.900 you get to see[br]an entirely new country. 0:01:38.900,0:01:42.000 For me personally, China is the most[br]interesting country in the world 0:01:42.000,0:01:44.220 to visit as an economist. 0:01:44.220,0:01:45.830 They have grown at a pace 0:01:45.830,0:01:47.770 that no other place has matched. 0:01:47.770,0:01:52.540 Imagine about 10% a year growth[br]for almost 35 years. 0:01:52.540,0:01:54.780 That has transformed everything. 0:01:54.780,0:01:56.200 So even year to year, 0:01:56.200,0:02:00.630 parts of a city or a neighborhood[br]can simply change before your eyes. 0:02:01.020,0:02:03.220 So you see human progress at work, 0:02:03.220,0:02:06.930 you see what took some parts[br]of the world centuries to achieve, 0:02:06.930,0:02:10.000 happening in decades or even years. 0:02:10.000,0:02:13.020 You see human hope[br]and faith and progress, 0:02:13.020,0:02:16.240 and a deep underlying optimism[br]about what is possible. 0:02:16.240,0:02:19.490 So the Chinese economy[br]during these years of rapid growth -- 0:02:19.490,0:02:21.440 it had some very notable features. 0:02:21.440,0:02:23.370 It had high levels of savings, 0:02:23.370,0:02:25.890 it had super high[br]levels of investment, 0:02:25.890,0:02:28.320 and they built lots[br]and lots of infrastructure. 0:02:28.320,0:02:30.360 And those were all very positive. 0:02:30.360,0:02:33.110 It's wonderful how good[br]the infrastructure is in China. 0:02:33.110,0:02:37.000 I would much rather ride[br]on a Chinese high-speed rail train 0:02:37.000,0:02:39.560 than take the Amtrak[br]from Washington, D.C. 0:02:39.560,0:02:40.580 to New York City. 0:02:40.580,0:02:43.140 The Chinese train[br]is quicker, nicer, 0:02:43.140,0:02:45.230 and it's far more likely[br]to be on time. 0:02:45.700,0:02:47.000 But here’s the thing -- 0:02:47.000,0:02:49.040 for a long time[br]China has been investing 0:02:49.040,0:02:51.870 almost half of its GDP every year. 0:02:51.870,0:02:53.510 Half![br]That's astonishing. 0:02:53.510,0:02:55.000 When you think about it, 0:02:55.000,0:02:57.000 it is remarkably hard, every year, 0:02:57.000,0:03:00.690 to invest half of your GDP[br]and to invest it well. 0:03:00.920,0:03:03.540 In the early years[br]of China's economic growth, 0:03:03.540,0:03:06.610 the required investments were[br]pretty simple and straightforward. 0:03:06.610,0:03:08.600 They needed to build more homes, 0:03:08.600,0:03:10.700 they needed[br]to put in more train lines, 0:03:10.700,0:03:12.690 they needed to build more roads, 0:03:12.690,0:03:15.000 they needed to equip[br]their urban centers 0:03:15.000,0:03:17.970 with all of the normal features[br]of everyday modern life. 0:03:17.970,0:03:20.940 And the Chinese government[br]did a really good job 0:03:20.940,0:03:22.490 at all of those things. 0:03:22.490,0:03:26.270 It's a big reason why, actually,[br]China's growth has been so strong. 0:03:26.270,0:03:27.910 But the problem is this -- 0:03:27.910,0:03:30.660 the way decision-making[br]in China is set up -- 0:03:30.660,0:03:34.260 it's very good for achieving things [br]with a kind of checklist -- 0:03:34.260,0:03:38.060 known tasks that require a lot[br]of resources and a lot of effort, 0:03:38.060,0:03:40.890 and you throw everything[br]you have at getting it done, 0:03:40.890,0:03:42.680 and you get it done pretty quickly. 0:03:42.680,0:03:44.550 China has been great at that. 0:03:44.550,0:03:47.530 But now, a lot of that[br]low-hanging fruit is gone. 0:03:47.530,0:03:50.000 A lot of the infrastructure[br]which China needs 0:03:50.000,0:03:51.620 already has been built, 0:03:51.620,0:03:55.000 but now their economy[br]needs more complex investments. 0:03:55.000,0:03:57.000 They need a better[br]healthcare system, 0:03:57.000,0:04:01.000 they need better retail services,[br]they need more startups. 0:04:01.000,0:04:02.000 And in these areas, 0:04:02.000,0:04:05.000 there’s not a simple [br]checklist way to get it done. 0:04:05.000,0:04:08.180 It's not just a question[br]of throwing resources at the problem. 0:04:08.180,0:04:11.520 You need more trial and error,[br]more experimentation, 0:04:11.520,0:04:14.040 you need more[br]of a market discovery process 0:04:14.040,0:04:16.740 to figure out which[br]are the profitable investments 0:04:16.740,0:04:18.880 and which[br]are the unprofitable ones. 0:04:19.060,0:04:21.280 And it’s hard to plan[br]and manage those 0:04:21.280,0:04:23.460 the same ways[br]that the Chinese did that 0:04:23.460,0:04:25.300 with all of their infrastructure. 0:04:25.970,0:04:28.810 Here is another problem[br]with the Chinese economic model. 0:04:28.810,0:04:32.680 If your economy grows[br]10% a year or so for so long, 0:04:32.680,0:04:35.000 businessmen[br]and also your governments -- 0:04:35.000,0:04:37.000 they start thinking[br]there isn't much risk. 0:04:37.000,0:04:40.750 At 10% growth, [br]there's so much forward impetus. 0:04:40.750,0:04:43.190 You can have a business plan[br]with a lot of mistakes, 0:04:43.190,0:04:46.960 you can have a lot of debt,[br]you can be very poor on execution, 0:04:46.960,0:04:49.940 but a lot of those investments[br]are still going to make money 0:04:49.940,0:04:51.730 at about 10% growth. 0:04:51.730,0:04:54.355 So what happens is,[br]the underlying economy 0:04:54.355,0:04:56.375 loses some of its discipline. 0:04:56.375,0:04:58.865 People get sloppy,[br]they overextend, 0:04:58.865,0:05:00.780 they become too optimistic. 0:05:00.780,0:05:03.530 They think they can make[br]any investment or any decision 0:05:03.530,0:05:05.910 and somehow[br]it will pay off or be validated, 0:05:05.910,0:05:07.430 just because everyone else 0:05:07.430,0:05:10.000 is pushing[br]on that 10% rate of growth. 0:05:10.000,0:05:12.190 A turning point[br]for the Chinese economy 0:05:12.190,0:05:13.840 comes in 2009 0:05:13.840,0:05:18.030 when there’s a significant recession[br]in many other parts of the world. 0:05:18.030,0:05:20.000 At the time,[br]a lot of observers thought, 0:05:20.000,0:05:22.960 "Well, there’s going to be[br]a big recession in China too." 0:05:22.960,0:05:24.400 But there wasn't. 0:05:24.400,0:05:27.460 The Chinese government[br]undertook some very special steps 0:05:27.460,0:05:30.900 to avoid or maybe[br]just postpone that recession. 0:05:30.900,0:05:32.000 So the Chinese government 0:05:32.000,0:05:34.420 spent a lot more money[br]on infrastructure 0:05:34.420,0:05:36.330 at a time where maybe 0:05:36.330,0:05:39.230 less infrastructure investment[br]was called for. 0:05:40.000,0:05:45.000 The Chinese government, the state-owned banks, [br]the state-owned companies, acted in concert 0:05:45.000,0:05:50.000 to encourage a lot more borrowing, a lot more [br]debt. And it's true - this did spur spending, 0:05:50.000,0:05:55.000 it boosted investment, kept the [br]economy running at a higher level, 0:05:55.000,0:06:00.000 but actually debt rose to the point where [br]it was too high relative to the rates of return 0:06:00.000,0:06:05.000 available on those projects. [br]So now, we don't have very exact 0:06:05.000,0:06:10.000 measures, but it seems that total Chinese [br]debt of all kinds is well over 200% 0:06:10.000,0:06:15.000 of GDP. Possibly as high as 300% of GDP. And 0:06:15.000,0:06:20.000 maybe that can work when your underlying rate [br]of growth is 10%, but as your underlying rate 0:06:20.000,0:06:25.000 of economic growth falls, it's harder and [br]harder for that debt to be sustainable. 0:06:25.000,0:06:30.000 So how much is China growing today? [br]Well it depends who you listen to. 0:06:30.000,0:06:35.000 The Chinese government, circa 2015, is [br]claiming China is still growing 0:06:35.000,0:06:40.000 at about 7% a year. But not many [br]external observers believe this, 0:06:40.000,0:06:45.000 because they’re looking at other pieces of data. [br]No one is sure what the real rate of economic growth is, 0:06:45.000,0:06:50.000 but what we know is that [br]it is probably sharply lower 0:06:50.000,0:06:55.000 and China is now entering [br]a great recession. 0:06:55.000,0:07:00.000 To track this recession, we can keep [br]in mind five issues or problem areas: 0:07:00.000,0:07:05.000 the real estate bubble, the stock market [br]bubble, the excess level of municipal debt, 0:07:05.000,0:07:10.000 excess capacity among Chinese businesses, [br]and finally, the risk of capital flight. 0:07:10.000,0:07:15.000 The first of these is - the real estate bubble. 0:07:15.000,0:07:20.000 Chinese property prices became too high in [br]many Chinese cities and China overbuilt. 0:07:20.000,0:07:25.000 I took a train trip from Beijing through the [br]center of the country, a six hour train trip. 0:07:25.000,0:07:30.000 And along the way, I kept on [br]seeing city after city 0:07:30.000,0:07:35.000 with dozens and dozens of apartment blocks. [br]You would see so many buildings, but so few people, 0:07:35.000,0:07:40.000 so few retail stores, so few cars. [br]Many of those cities are 0:07:40.000,0:07:45.000 grossly overbuilt, relative [br]to what can be supported. 0:07:45.000,0:07:50.000 The Chinese stock market bubble is another [br]potential problem. For a while, Chinese stock prices 0:07:50.000,0:07:55.000 were rising rapidly, but [br]then they fell rapidly too. 0:07:55.000,0:08:00.000 Too many people were encouraged to buy stocks [br]on margin, the ratio of prices to corporate earnings 0:08:00.000,0:08:05.000 has been extremely high, and probably those stock [br]prices will continue to fall at a pretty rapid pace. 0:08:05.000,0:08:10.000 That will depress consumer [br]spending, lower confidence 0:08:10.000,0:08:15.000 and it also will be a problem for some Chinese [br]banks. The third problem is municipal debt. 0:08:15.000,0:08:20.000 No one really knows exactly how big a [br]problem this is. We do know that Chinese 0:08:20.000,0:08:25.000 municipal governments were not supposed to [br]be able to borrow money, they were supposed 0:08:25.000,0:08:30.000 to run balanced budgets. But in fact, a lot [br]of them ended up borrowing money off the books, 0:08:30.000,0:08:35.000 and in fact they were encouraged by the [br]central government to do this, to keep 0:08:35.000,0:08:40.000 up that expenditure on all the infrastructure. But [br]what’s happened is, they borrowed a lot more than right 0:08:40.000,0:08:45.000 now they are able to pay back. And the central [br]government in Beijing is feeling the need 0:08:45.000,0:08:50.000 to try to bail out these municipal governments. [br]Another big problem in the Chinese economy 0:08:50.000,0:08:55.000 is what I would call "excess capacity". That is, [br]in too many sectors you have too many firms, 0:08:55.000,0:09:00.000 you have too much overconfidence, too much [br]stimulation of investment, and a lot of those companies 0:09:00.000,0:09:05.000 probably are not profitable. They're being kept [br]afloat by cheap credit by Chinese 0:09:05.000,0:09:10.000 state-owned banks, or they may be Chinese [br]state-owned companies themselves, which 0:09:10.000,0:09:15.000 have political privileges of various kinds. [br]But a lot of those companies right now, 0:09:15.000,0:09:20.000 They’re not making really productive investments [br]in the kinds of things that Chinese consumers want. 0:09:20.000,0:09:25.000 If you look at price indices, if you look at [br]the index for producer prices in China, 0:09:25.000,0:09:30.000 that's one measure of this excess capacity. 0:09:30.000,0:09:35.000 That index actually has been falling now for over three years [br]running, falling every month. That's a sign that too many 0:09:35.000,0:09:40.000 producer goods have been built [br]for what can be sustained profitably. 0:09:40.000,0:09:46.000 So maybe the biggest potential problem is capital [br]flight. There’s a risk that capital within China, 0:09:46.000,0:09:55.000 foreign capital, but specially domestic capital, seeks to [br]leave the country out of fear of China's economic problems. 0:09:55.000,0:10:00.000 But if too much of this capital leaves the country, that actually makes the problems much worse. As we saw with the Asian financial 0:10:00.000,0:10:05.000 crisis in the 1990's for other countries. [br]The big danger in China is simply that 0:10:05.000,0:10:10.000 capital flight accelerates. But in the meantime, [br]think of the problems the Chinese government 0:10:10.000,0:10:15.000 has trying to manage all of this. There are [br]a lot of firms which are no longer profitable, 0:10:15.000,0:10:20.000 but the government’s reluctant to let them [br]go bankrupt because of fear of unemployment 0:10:20.000,0:10:25.000 and also alienating special interest groups. There’s [br]too much credit and too much borrowing in the economy, 0:10:25.000,0:10:30.000 but if that bubble is burst, well then [br]economic activity will fall all the more. 0:10:30.000,0:10:35.000 There's been too much investment in real estate, [br]there’s too much continuing reliance on infrastructure, 0:10:35.000,0:10:40.000 and somehow the government is supposed [br]to juggle all of these balls at once 0:10:40.000,0:10:45.000 and stop the recession from getting worse. [br]When you put all of those issues together, 0:10:45.000,0:10:50.000 it is indeed a very complex picture, [br]very difficult to understand. But what we see 0:10:50.000,0:10:55.000 is that the world's number two economy really [br]is running a very serious risk of a recession 0:10:55.000,0:11:00.000 which will be deep, and also may last [br]really quite some number of years. 0:11:00.000,0:11:05.000 My personal view is that, at this point, these [br]problems are so deeply baked into the Chinese economy, 0:11:05.000,0:11:10.000 there is no way to set this all right. [br]But still there are some major reasons 0:11:10.000,0:11:15.000 to be optimistic looking forward. First, [br]the most important source of wealth in any economy is 0:11:15.000,0:11:20.000 human capital. The Chinese have [br]done a fantastic job investing 0:11:20.000,0:11:25.000 in their own human capital. So from [br]the economist’s point of view, which values 0:11:25.000,0:11:30.000 human capital above all else, as the most fundamental [br]source of national wealth. When we look at the future 0:11:30.000,0:11:35.000 of China in the medium-term prospects, [br]we really should be optimistic 0:11:35.000,0:11:40.000 or even cheery. Because China has [br]invested very well in human capital. 0:11:40.000,0:11:45.000 Those investments will survive the [br]current recession intact, and we have 0:11:45.000,0:11:50.000 every reason to believe that China will be extending the [br]talents, energies, drives, and ambitions of its people, 0:12:22.000,0:12:25.000 Subtitles by the Amara.org community