1 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:14,000 So why is the Chinese economy in so much trouble right now? 2 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:20,000 Well actually, this shouldn't come as a surprise. If you've been watching China over the last several decades, 3 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:25,000 you can understand how the current problems actually fall out of a lot of their earlier successes. 4 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:30,000 The story starts in 1979. And in 1979, 5 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:35,000 you have Chinese reformers starting to do a good deal to put the Chinese economy on 6 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:40,000 a sounder track. At that time, Chinese per capita income 7 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:45,000 was only a few hundred dollars a year, almost everyone was very poor, 8 00:00:45,500 --> 00:00:50,000 people would ride bicycles rather than driving cars, and even starvation was still a possibility. 9 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:55,000 So China introduces more private property, more capitalistic 10 00:00:55,000 --> 00:01:00,000 incentives, it privatizes some of its agriculture, it allows more manufacturing, 11 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:05,000 more exporting. Overall, China starts moving toward being a modern 12 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:10,000 economy, a normal economy. And once these reforms are underway, 13 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:15,000 China is growing at really an astonishing pace. For a lot of the last 35 years, 14 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:20,000 China has been growing at around 10% a year. 15 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:25,000 That's amazing! The American economy typically doesn't grow at much more than 2% a year. 16 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:30,000 At 10% a year growth, that means that living standards double about every 7 years. 17 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:35,000 So if you go back, you keep on visiting China, it's as if every 7 years, 18 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:45,000 every 10 years, you get to see an entirely new country. For me personally, China 19 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:50,000 They have grown at a pace that no other place has matched. Imagine about 10% a year growth 20 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:55,000 for almost 35 years. That has transformed everything. So even 21 00:01:55,000 --> 00:02:00,000 year to year, parts of a city or a neighborhood can simply change before your eyes. 22 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:05,000 So you see human progress at work, you see what took some parts of the world 23 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:10,000 centuries to achieve, happening in decades or even years. 24 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:15,000 You see human hope and faith and progress, and a deep underlying optimism about what is possible. 25 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:20,000 So the Chinese economy during these years of rapid growth - it had some very notable features. 26 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:25,000 It had high levels of savings, it had super high levels of investment, 27 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:30,000 and they build lots and lots of infrastructure. And those were all very positive. 28 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:35,000 It's wonderful how good the infrastructure is in China. I would much rather ride on a Chinese 29 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:40,000 high-speed rail train than take the Amtrak from Washington, D.C. to New York City. 30 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:45,000 The Chinese train is quicker, nicer, and it's far more likely to be on time. 31 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:50,000 But here’s the thing - for a long time China has been investing almost half of its GDP 32 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:55,000 every year, half! That's astonishing. When you think about it, 33 00:02:55,000 --> 00:03:00,000 it is remarkably hard, every year, to invest half of your GDP and to invest it well. 34 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:05,000 In the early years of China's economic growth, the required investments were pretty simple 35 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:10,000 and straightforward. They needed to build more homes, they needed to put in more train lines, 36 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:15,000 they needed to build more roads, they needed to equip their urban centers with 37 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:20,000 all of the normal features of everyday modern life. And the Chinese government did a really good 38 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:25,000 job at all of those things. It's a big reason why, actually, China's growth has been so strong. 39 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:30,000 But the problem is this - the way decision making in China is set up - 40 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:35,000 it's very good for achieving things with a kind of checklist - known tasks 41 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:40,000 that require a lot of resources and a lot of effort, and you throw everything you have at getting it done, 42 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:45,000 and you get it done pretty quickly. China has been great at that. 43 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:50,000 But now, a lot of that low-hanging fruit is gone. A lot of the infrastructure which China needs 44 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:55,000 already has been built, but now their economy need more complex investment. 45 00:03:55,000 --> 00:04:00,000 They need a better healthcare system, they need better retail services, they need more startups. 46 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:05,000 And in these areas, there’s not a simple checklist way to get it done. It's 47 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:10,000 not just a question of throwing resources at the problem. You need more trial and error, more experimentation, 48 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:15,000 you need more of a market discovery process to figure out which 49 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:20,000 are the profitable investments and which are the unprofitable ones. And it’s hard 50 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:25,000 to plan and manage those the same ways that the Chinese did that with all of their infrastructure. 51 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:30,000 Here is another problem with the Chinese economic model. If your economy grows 10% a year 52 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:35,000 or so for so long, businessmen and also your governments, they start thinking 53 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:40,000 there isn't much risk. At 10% growth, there so much forward impetus. 54 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:45,000 You can have a business plan with a lot of mistakes, you can have a lot of debt, you can be very poor on execution, 55 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:55,000 but a lot of those investments are still going to make money at about 10% growth. 56 00:04:55,000 --> 00:05:00,000 So what happens is, the underlying economy loses some of its discipline. People get sloppy, they overextend, they become too optimistic. 57 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:05,000 They think they can make any investment or any decision and somehow it will pay off or be validated, 58 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:10,000 just because everyone else is pushing on that 10% rate of growth. 59 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:15,000 A turning point for the Chinese economy comes in 2009 when there’s a significant recession in 60 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:20,000 many other parts of the world. At the time, a lot of observers thought, 61 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:25,000 "Well, there’s going to be a big recession in China too." But there wasn't. 62 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:30,000 The Chinese government undertook some very special steps to avoid or maybe just postpone that recession. 63 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:35,000 So the Chinese government spent a lot more money on infrastructure at a time 64 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:40,000 where maybe less infrastructure investment was called for. 65 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:45,000 The Chinese government, the state-owned banks, the state-owned companies, acted in concert 66 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:50,000 to encourage a lot more borrowing, a lot more debt. And it's true - this did spur spending, 67 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:55,000 it boosted investment, kept the economy running at a higher level, 68 00:05:55,000 --> 00:06:00,000 but actually debt rose to the point where it was too high relative to the rates of return 69 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:05,000 available on those projects. So now, we don't have very exact 70 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:10,000 measures, but it seems that total Chinese debt of all kinds is well over 200% 71 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:15,000 of GDP. Possibly as high as 300% of GDP. And 72 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:20,000 maybe that can work when your underlying rate of growth is 10%, but as your underlying rate 73 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:25,000 of economic growth falls, it's harder and harder for that debt to be sustainable. 74 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:30,000 So how much is China growing today? Well it depends who you listen to. 75 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:35,000 The Chinese government, circa 2015, is claiming China is still growing 76 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:40,000 at about 7% a year. But not many external observers believe this, 77 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:45,000 because they’re looking at other pieces of data. No one is sure what the real rate of economic growth is, 78 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:50,000 but what we know is that it is probably sharply lower 79 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:55,000 and China is now entering a great recession. 80 00:06:55,000 --> 00:07:00,000 To track this recession, we can keep in mind five issues or problem areas: 81 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:05,000 the real estate bubble, the stock market bubble, the excess level of municipal debt, 82 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:10,000 excess capacity among Chinese businesses, and finally, the risk of capital flight. 83 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:15,000 The first of these is - the real estate bubble. 84 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:20,000 Chinese property prices became too high in many Chinese cities and China overbuilt. 85 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:25,000 I took a train trip from Beijing through the center of the country, a six hour train trip. 86 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:30,000 And along the way, I kept on seeing city after city 87 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:35,000 with dozens and dozens of apartment blocks. You would see so many buildings, but so few people, 88 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:40,000 so few retail stores, so few cars. Many of those cities are 89 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:45,000 grossly overbuilt, relative to what can be supported. 90 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:50,000 The Chinese stock market bubble is another potential problem. For a while, Chinese stock prices 91 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:55,000 were rising rapidly, but then they fell rapidly too. 92 00:07:55,000 --> 00:08:00,000 Too many people were encouraged to buy stocks on margin, the ratio of prices to corporate earnings 93 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:05,000 has been extremely high, and probably those stock prices will continue to fall at a pretty rapid pace. 94 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:10,000 That will depress consumer spending, lower confidence 95 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:15,000 and it also will be a problem for some Chinese banks. The third problem is municipal debt. 96 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:20,000 No one really knows exactly how big a problem this is. We do know that Chinese 97 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:25,000 municipal governments were not supposed to be able to borrow money, they were supposed 98 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:30,000 to run balanced budgets. But in fact, a lot of them ended up borrowing money off the books, 99 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:35,000 and in fact they were encouraged by the central government to do this, to keep 100 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:40,000 up that expenditure on all the infrastructure. But what’s happened is, they borrowed a lot more than right 101 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:45,000 now they are able to pay back. And the central government in Beijing is feeling the need 102 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:50,000 to try to bail out these municipal governments. Another big problem in the Chinese economy 103 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:55,000 is what I would call "excess capacity". That is, in too many sectors you have too many firms, 104 00:08:55,000 --> 00:09:00,000 you have too much overconfidence, too much stimulation of investment, and a lot of those companies 105 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:05,000 probably are not profitable. They're being kept afloat by cheap credit by Chinese 106 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:10,000 state-owned banks, or they may be Chinese state-owned companies themselves, which 107 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:15,000 have political privileges of various kinds. But a lot of those companies right now, 108 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:20,000 They’re not making really productive investments in the kinds of things that Chinese consumers want. 109 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:25,000 If you look at price indices, if you look at the index for producer prices in China, 110 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:30,000 that's one measure of this excess capacity. 111 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:35,000 That index actually has been falling now for over three years running, falling every month. That's a sign that too many 112 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:40,000 producer goods have been built for what can be sustained profitably. 113 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:46,000 So maybe the biggest potential problem is capital flight. There’s a risk that capital within China, 114 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:55,000 foreign capital, but specially domestic capital, seeks to leave the country out of fear of China's economic problems. 115 00:09:55,000 --> 00:10:00,000 But if too much of this capital leaves the country, that actually makes the problems much worse. As we saw with the Asian financial 116 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:05,000 crisis in the 1990's for other countries. The big danger in China is simply that 117 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:10,000 capital flight accelerates. But in the meantime, think of the problems the Chinese government 118 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:15,000 has trying to manage all of this. There are a lot of firms which are no longer profitable, 119 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:20,000 but the government’s reluctant to let them go bankrupt because of fear of unemployment 120 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:25,000 and also alienating special interest groups. There’s too much credit and too much borrowing in the economy, 121 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:30,000 but if that bubble is burst, well then economic activity will fall all the more. 122 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:35,000 There's been too much investment in real estate, there’s too much continuing reliance on infrastructure, 123 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:40,000 and somehow the government is supposed to juggle all of these balls at once 124 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:45,000 and stop the recession from getting worse. When you put all of those issues together, 125 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:50,000 it is indeed a very complex picture, very difficult to understand. But what we see 126 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:55,000 is that the world's number two economy really is running a very serious risk of a recession 127 00:10:55,000 --> 00:11:00,000 which will be deep, and also may last really quite some number of years. 128 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:05,000 My personal view is that, at this point, these problems are so deeply baked into the Chinese economy, 129 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:10,000 there is no way to set this all right. But still there are some major reasons 130 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:15,000 to be optimistic looking forward. First, the most important source of wealth in any economy is 131 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:20,000 human capital. The Chinese have done a fantastic job investing 132 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:25,000 in their own human capital. So from the economist’s point of view, which values 133 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:30,000 human capital above all else, as the most fundamental source of national wealth. When we look at the future 134 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:35,000 of China in the medium-term prospects, we really should be optimistic 135 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:40,000 or even cheery. Because China has invested very well in human capital. 136 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:45,000 Those investments will survive the current recession intact, and we have 137 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:50,000 every reason to believe that China will be extending the talents, energies, drives, and ambitions of its people, 138 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:25,000 Subtitles by the Amara.org community