1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,850 >> Rosemary Church: ... And we want to talk more about the sign-language interpreter 2 00:00:02,850 --> 00:00:05,379 at Nelson Mandela's memorial on Tuesday. 3 00:00:05,379 --> 00:00:09,820 We're joined by Laura Peterson and Julie Rems-Smario in Fremont, California, 4 00:00:09,820 --> 00:00:13,410 They work at the California School for the Deaf, as we mentioned, 5 00:00:13,410 --> 00:00:17,430 and Julie herself is deaf and will be communicating through an interpreter 6 00:00:17,430 --> 00:00:19,330 who is off-camera here. 7 00:00:19,330 --> 00:00:20,970 Thank you for joining us. 8 00:00:20,970 --> 00:00:25,039 Laura, I do want to start with you and get your reaction 9 00:00:25,039 --> 00:00:27,880 to this sign-language interpreter: what did you think? 10 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:32,259 >> Laura Peterson: Um, well, when I first heard about it, actually from Julie, 11 00:00:32,259 --> 00:00:36,870 I thought "OK, then maybe they weren't qualified," 12 00:00:36,870 --> 00:00:40,200 So I thought, in order to explain this here, 13 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:43,440 I really wanted to provide access to everybody in your audience 14 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:47,480 and so, because I understand that there is no captioning, 15 00:00:47,480 --> 00:00:50,870 so Julie is interpreting, 16 00:00:50,870 --> 00:00:52,650 so that everybody in the audience can have access. 17 00:00:52,650 --> 00:00:54,680 So I just wanted to clarify that, 18 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:56,390 because people are maybe not understanding 19 00:00:56,390 --> 00:00:58,640 why Julie is signing right now. 20 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:00,870 So, when I first read about it, I thought: 21 00:01:00,870 --> 00:01:03,540 "OK, maybe it was somebody who just wasn't very good." 22 00:01:03,540 --> 00:01:07,370 But when I actually saw the video, it was really clear that they were -- 23 00:01:07,370 --> 00:01:11,820 did not have the semantics, the hand shapes, 24 00:01:11,820 --> 00:01:16,500 the normal attributes of any sign language. 25 00:01:16,500 --> 00:01:18,830 I don't know South African Sign Language, 26 00:01:18,830 --> 00:01:22,470 but there are things that are uniform in all sign languages. 27 00:01:22,470 --> 00:01:26,720 >> Church: And it is worth mentioning that there isn't an International Sign Language, 28 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:27,080 which is there, 29 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:29,270 I mean there are different Sign Languages in each country. 30 00:01:29,270 --> 00:01:31,840 But Julie, I do want to go to you: 31 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:35,890 Are you outraged? What do you want to see happen here? 32 00:01:35,890 --> 00:01:40,550 >> Julie Rems-Smario: Well, really, I am upset, 33 00:01:40,550 --> 00:01:43,710 because really, that shows a lack of respect 34 00:01:43,710 --> 00:01:46,960 for human rights of language equality. 35 00:01:46,960 --> 00:01:48,850 That was destroyed at this event 36 00:01:48,850 --> 00:01:53,970 and Nelson Mandela represented human rights 37 00:01:53,970 --> 00:01:56,440 and he's an icon and an African. 38 00:01:56,440 --> 00:02:01,190 And this person exploited that on a very important day 39 00:02:01,190 --> 00:02:03,040 to honor Nelson Mandela 40 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:07,350 and he also violated our human rights as deaf people 41 00:02:07,350 --> 00:02:12,030 by showing exactly what, you know, 42 00:02:12,030 --> 00:02:14,420 language apartheid looks like. 43 00:02:14,420 --> 00:02:18,880 >> Church: And Laura, as we saw in the story that Errol Barnett brought us 44 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:21,090 just before the break, 45 00:02:21,090 --> 00:02:25,170 this man, this interpreter, he has been in trouble before, 46 00:02:25,170 --> 00:02:27,230 but there have been no consequences. 47 00:02:27,230 --> 00:02:29,920 How does somebody -- as far as I was concerned -- 48 00:02:29,920 --> 00:02:32,230 he had credentials to do this. 49 00:02:32,230 --> 00:02:33,690 How does somebody end up on the stage 50 00:02:33,690 --> 00:02:35,550 next to all of those dignitaries 51 00:02:35,550 --> 00:02:38,150 in such an important, historic day, 52 00:02:38,150 --> 00:02:41,050 for not just South Africa, but indeed the world? 53 00:02:41,050 --> 00:02:43,870 How does someone get through to that point 54 00:02:43,870 --> 00:02:45,120 when they've been in trouble before? 55 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:46,590 >> Peterson: Right, so your question is 56 00:02:46,590 --> 00:02:48,830 how does he end up on the stage. 57 00:02:48,830 --> 00:02:53,290 Um, it's not, unfortunately, it's not that unusual. 58 00:02:53,290 --> 00:02:55,349 It happens not just in South Africa, 59 00:02:55,349 --> 00:02:56,580 it happens around the world, 60 00:02:56,580 --> 00:03:00,790 it happens in classrooms here in California. 61 00:03:00,790 --> 00:03:02,950 This -- oftentimes the situation is, 62 00:03:02,950 --> 00:03:07,120 the person who is doing the hiring doesn't know the language. 63 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:10,650 And so, if the person says they are fluent in that language, 64 00:03:10,650 --> 00:03:13,480 they take them, you know, just by their word. 65 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:15,099 Here in the United States, 66 00:03:15,099 --> 00:03:17,000 we have the Registry of Interpreters for the Deaf, 67 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:18,650 there's a whole certification process 68 00:03:18,650 --> 00:03:23,650 and a code of ethics and professional conduct, 69 00:03:23,650 --> 00:03:25,349 so we try to avoid that. 70 00:03:25,349 --> 00:03:30,440 However, that doesn't mean that people don't hire 71 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:32,360 people who don't have those qualifications, 72 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:34,849 they don't include deaf people in that hiring process 73 00:03:34,849 --> 00:03:39,590 so that somebody who knows the language can actually ascertain 74 00:03:39,590 --> 00:03:42,099 whether they do have that fluency. 75 00:03:42,099 --> 00:03:44,830 >> Church: And presumably, money is the motivator here. 76 00:03:44,830 --> 00:03:46,530 But of course, across the world, 77 00:03:46,530 --> 00:03:49,440 many deaf children struggle to get a proper education 78 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:51,209 and that's the big point here. 79 00:03:51,209 --> 00:03:54,750 And Human Rights Watch has a campaign dedicated 80 00:03:54,750 --> 00:03:57,379 to help raise awareness about SIgn Language education 81 00:03:57,379 --> 00:04:00,349 in places throughout Africa, and indeed the rest of the world. 82 00:04:00,349 --> 00:04:05,030 I want to just watch a portion of the video if we can bring that up: 83 00:04:05,030 --> 00:04:07,230 >> Teacher: My name? Good! 84 00:04:07,230 --> 00:04:09,980 Yours? Hey! Anne, Anne, good! 85 00:04:09,980 --> 00:04:11,080 My name. 86 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:13,280 [Girl signs her name] 87 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:15,980 >> Teacher: Good good good! Yours? 88 00:04:15,980 --> 00:04:20,639 Your name? Ah ah, you are not Anne. 89 00:04:20,639 --> 00:04:23,919 My name? Who? Yours, yours, yours. 90 00:04:23,919 --> 00:04:26,099 >> Boy: Yours, yours, yours. 91 00:04:26,099 --> 00:04:29,370 >> Teacher: Mmm, What is her name? 92 00:04:29,370 --> 00:04:30,469 [Girl signs] 93 00:04:30,469 --> 00:04:31,559 >> Teacher:Yeah, beautiful. 94 00:04:31,559 --> 00:04:35,800 She's very good in taking in the sign language. 95 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:37,289 It's very important to have because 96 00:04:37,289 --> 00:04:40,740 she can now be communicating to other people. 97 00:04:40,740 --> 00:04:42,669 While she was at home 98 00:04:42,669 --> 00:04:46,680 there was no sign language being taught there. 99 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:49,460 >> Church: And Julie and Laura, of course advocates say, 100 00:04:49,460 --> 00:04:50,279 one of the biggest problems 101 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:53,629 is the lack of Sign Language schools and instructors. 102 00:04:53,629 --> 00:04:56,430 And of course that portion of that video, I mean, 103 00:04:56,430 --> 00:04:58,240 really does bring it home, doesn't it, 104 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:01,089 the importance of educating these children who, 105 00:05:01,089 --> 00:05:03,800 for some -- sometimes, it's not until they're 6 years of age 106 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:06,830 that they have access to this sort of education. 107 00:05:06,830 --> 00:05:11,270 So how concerned are you that this fake interpreter's actions 108 00:05:11,270 --> 00:05:14,559 could have a negative impact on this initiative? 109 00:05:14,559 --> 00:05:18,759 >> Rems-Smario: Well, I'm very concerned 110 00:05:18,759 --> 00:05:23,039 about the lack of acceptance of deaf people, deaf leaders, 111 00:05:23,039 --> 00:05:24,330 and the input from the community, 112 00:05:24,330 --> 00:05:25,889 because we're the experts, 113 00:05:25,889 --> 00:05:29,099 and many schools don't hire the deaf people who know the community, 114 00:05:29,099 --> 00:05:30,719 who know the language, 115 00:05:30,719 --> 00:05:35,499 who know our human right to Sign Language. 116 00:05:35,499 --> 00:05:38,589 We have a national and international epidemic 117 00:05:38,589 --> 00:05:41,919 of deaf children who have language deprivation. 118 00:05:41,919 --> 00:05:47,659 They grow up without full access, full competency in any language, 119 00:05:47,659 --> 00:05:52,020 which means they struggle academically, socially, emotionally 120 00:05:52,020 --> 00:05:53,809 and it's really a travesty. 121 00:05:53,809 --> 00:05:56,099 >> Church: If there's one good point, 122 00:05:56,099 --> 00:05:59,360 perhaps this incident has brought attention to that. 123 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:00,490 We will see of course. 124 00:06:00,490 --> 00:06:02,879 Laura Peterson and Julie Rems-Smario, 125 00:06:02,879 --> 00:06:04,059 thank you so much for joining us 126 00:06:04,059 --> 00:06:06,550 and bringing attention to this incident. 127 00:06:06,550 --> 00:06:07,090 We appreciate it.