>> Rosemary Church: ... And we want to talk
more about the sign-language interpreter

at Nelson Mandela's memorial on Tuesday.

We're joined by Laura Peterson and Julie Rems-Smario
in Freemont, California,

They work at the California School for the
Deaf, as we mentioned,

and Julie herself is deaf and will be communicating
through an interpreter

who is off-camera here.

Thank you for joining us.

Laura, I do want to start with you and get
your reaction

to this sign-language interpreter: what did
you think?

>> Laura Peterson: Um, well, when I first
heard about it, actually from Julie,

I thought "OK, then maybe they weren't qualified,"

So I thought, in order to explain this here,

I really wanted to provide access to everybody
in your audience

and so, because I understand that there is
no captioning,

so Julie is interpreting,

so that everybody in the audience can have
access.

So I just wanted to clarify that,

because people are maybe not understanding

why Julie is signing right now.

So, when I first read about it, I thought:

"OK, maybe it was somebody who just wasn't
very good."

But when I actually saw the video, it was
really clear that they were --

did not have the semantics, the hand shapes,

the normal attributes of *any* sign language.

I don't know South African Sign Language,

but there are things that are uniform in all
sign languages.

>> Church: And it is worth mentioning that
there isn't an International Sign Language,

which is there,

I mean there are different Sign Languages
in each country.

But Julie, I do want to go to you:

Are you outraged? What do you want to see
happen here?

>> Julie Rems-Smario: Well, really, I am upset,

because really, that shows a lack of respect

for human rights of language equality.

That was destroyed at this event

and Nelson Mandela represented human rights

and he's an icon and an African.

And this person exploited that on a very important
day

to honor Nelson Mandela

and he also violated our human rights as deaf
people

by showing exactly what, you know,

language apartheid looks like.

>> Church: And Laura, as we saw in the story
that Errol Barnett brought us

just before the break,

this man, this interpreter, he has been in
trouble before,

but there have been no consequences.

How does somebody -- as far as I was concerned
--

he had credentials to do this.

How does somebody end up on the stage

next to all of those dignitaries

in such an important, historic day,

for not just South Africa, but indeed the
world?

How does someone get through to that point

when they've been in trouble before?

>> Peterson: Right, so your question is

how does he end up on the stage.

Um, it's not, unfortunately, it's not that
unusual.

It happens not just in South Africa,

it happens around the world,

it happens in classrooms here in California.

This -- oftentimes the situation is,

the person who is doing the hiring doesn't
know the language.

And so, if the person says they are fluent
in that language,

they take them, you know, just by their word.

Here in the United States,

we have the Registry of Interpreters for the
Deaf,

there's a whole certification process

and a code of ethics and professional conduct,

so we try to avoid that.

However, that doesn't mean that people don't
hire

people who don't have those qualifications,

they don't include deaf people in that hiring
process

so that somebody who knows the language can
actually ascertain

whether they do have that fluency.

>> Church: And presumably, money is the motivator
here.

But of course, across the world,

many deaf children struggle to get a proper
education

and that's the big point here.

And Human Rights Watch has a campaign dedicated

to help raise awareness about SIgn Language
education

in places throughout Africa, and indeed the
rest of the world.

I want to just watch a portion of the video
if we can bring that up:

>> Teacher: My name?
Good!

Yours?
Hey! Anne, Anne, good!

My name.

[Girl signs her name]

>> Teacher: Good good good!
Yours?

Your name? Ah ah, you are not Anne.

My name? Who? Yours, yours, yours.

>> Boy: Yours, yours, yours.

>> Teacher: Mmm, What is her name?

[Girl signs]

>> Teacher:Yeah, beautiful.

She's very good in taking in the sign language.

It's very important to have because

she can now be communicating to other people.

While she was at home

there was no sign language being taught there.

>> Church: And Julie and Laura, of course
advocates say,

one of the biggest problems

is the lack of Sign Language schools and instructors.

And of course that portion of that video,
I mean,

really does bring it home, doesn't it,

the importance of educating these children
who,

for some -- sometimes, it's not until they're
6 years of age

that they have access to this sort of education.

So how concerned are you that this fake interpreter's
actions

could have a negative impact on this initiative?

>> Rems-Smario: Well, I'm very concerned

about the lack of acceptance of deaf people,
deaf leaders,

and the input from the community,

because we're the experts,

and many schools don't hire the deaf people
who know the community,

who know the language,

who know our human right to Sign Language.

We have a national and international epidemic

of deaf children who have language deprivation.

They grow up without full access, full competency
in any language,

which means they struggle academically, socially,
emotionally

and it's really a travesty.

>> Church: If there's one good point,

perhaps this incident has brought attention
to that.

We will see of course.

Laura Peterson and Julie Rems-Smario,

thank you so much for joining us

and bringing attention to this incident.

We appreciate it.