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>> Rosemary Church: ... And we want to talk[br]more about the sign-language interpreter

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at Nelson Mandela's memorial on Tuesday.

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We're joined by Laura Peterson and Julie Rems-Smario[br]in Freemont, California,

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They work at the California School for the[br]Deaf, as we mentioned,

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and Julie herself is deaf and will be communicating[br]through an interpreter

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who is off-camera here.

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Thank you for joining us.

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Laura, I do want to start with you and get[br]your reaction

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to this sign-language interpreter: what did[br]you think?

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>> Laura Peterson: Um, well, when I first[br]heard about it, actually from Julie,

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I thought "OK, then maybe they weren't qualified,"

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So I thought, in order to explain this here,

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I really wanted to provide access to everybody[br]in your audience

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and so, because I understand that there is[br]no captioning,

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so Julie is interpreting,

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so that everybody in the audience can have[br]access.

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So I just wanted to clarify that,

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because people are maybe not understanding

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why Julie is signing right now.

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So, when I first read about it, I thought:

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"OK, maybe it was somebody who just wasn't[br]very good."

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But when I actually saw the video, it was[br]really clear that they were --

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did not have the semantics, the hand shapes,

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the normal attributes of *any* sign language.

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I don't know South African Sign Language,

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but there are things that are uniform in all[br]sign languages.

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>> Church: And it is worth mentioning that[br]there isn't an International Sign Language,

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which is there,

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I mean there are different Sign Languages[br]in each country.

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But Julie, I do want to go to you:

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Are you outraged? What do you want to see[br]happen here?

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>> Julie Rems-Smario: Well, really, I am upset,

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because really, that shows a lack of respect

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for human rights of language equality.

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That was destroyed at this event

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and Nelson Mandela represented human rights

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and he's an icon and an African.

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And this person exploited that on a very important[br]day

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to honor Nelson Mandela

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and he also violated our human rights as deaf[br]people

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by showing exactly what, you know,

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language apartheid looks like.

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>> Church: And Laura, as we saw in the story[br]that Errol Barnett brought us

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just before the break,

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this man, this interpreter, he has been in[br]trouble before,

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but there have been no consequences.

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How does somebody -- as far as I was concerned[br]--

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he had credentials to do this.

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How does somebody end up on the stage

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next to all of those dignitaries

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in such an important, historic day,

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for not just South Africa, but indeed the[br]world?

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How does someone get through to that point

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when they've been in trouble before?

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>> Peterson: Right, so your question is

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how does he end up on the stage.

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Um, it's not, unfortunately, it's not that[br]unusual.

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It happens not just in South Africa,

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it happens around the world,

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it happens in classrooms here in California.

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This -- oftentimes the situation is,

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the person who is doing the hiring doesn't[br]know the language.

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And so, if the person says they are fluent[br]in that language,

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they take them, you know, just by their word.

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Here in the United States,

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we have the Registry of Interpreters for the[br]Deaf,

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there's a whole certification process

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and a code of ethics and professional conduct,

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so we try to avoid that.

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However, that doesn't mean that people don't[br]hire

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people who don't have those qualifications,

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they don't include deaf people in that hiring[br]process

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so that somebody who knows the language can[br]actually ascertain

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whether they do have that fluency.

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>> Church: And presumably, money is the motivator[br]here.

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But of course, across the world,

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many deaf children struggle to get a proper[br]education

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and that's the big point here.

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And Human Rights Watch has a campaign dedicated

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to help raise awareness about SIgn Language[br]education

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in places throughout Africa, and indeed the[br]rest of the world.

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I want to just watch a portion of the video[br]if we can bring that up:

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>> Teacher: My name?[br]Good!

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Yours?[br]Hey! Anne, Anne, good!

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My name.

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[Girl signs her name]

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>> Teacher: Good good good![br]Yours?

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Your name? Ah ah, you are not Anne.

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My name? Who? Yours, yours, yours.

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>> Boy: Yours, yours, yours.

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>> Teacher: Mmm, What is her name?

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[Girl signs]

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>> Teacher:Yeah, beautiful.

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She's very good in taking in the sign language.

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It's very important to have because

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she can now be communicating to other people.

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While she was at home

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there was no sign language being taught there.

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>> Church: And Julie and Laura, of course[br]advocates say,

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one of the biggest problems

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is the lack of Sign Language schools and instructors.

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And of course that portion of that video,[br]I mean,

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really does bring it home, doesn't it,

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the importance of educating these children[br]who,

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for some -- sometimes, it's not until they're[br]6 years of age

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that they have access to this sort of education.

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So how concerned are you that this fake interpreter's[br]actions

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could have a negative impact on this initiative?

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>> Rems-Smario: Well, I'm very concerned

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about the lack of acceptance of deaf people,[br]deaf leaders,

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and the input from the community,

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because we're the experts,

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and many schools don't hire the deaf people[br]who know the community,

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who know the language,

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who know our human right to Sign Language.

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We have a national and international epidemic

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of deaf children who have language deprivation.

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They grow up without full access, full competency[br]in any language,

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which means they struggle academically, socially,[br]emotionally

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and it's really a travesty.

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>> Church: If there's one good point,

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perhaps this incident has brought attention[br]to that.

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We will see of course.

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Laura Peterson and Julie Rems-Smario,

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thank you so much for joining us

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and bringing attention to this incident.

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We appreciate it.