WEBVTT
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rc3 preroll music 2021
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Herald: Welcome to the "gehacktes from
Hell", we're streaming from the
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Bierscheune in Alte Hölle in Brandenburg.
The coming talk, looks at the method of
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carbon sinking, a way to limit climate
change. Hans-Peter Schmidt will tell us
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how to do this with the help of biochar.
We're really happy to have him as a
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speaker because Hans-Peter is a pioneer in
the field of biochar science, and he has
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worked on the development of its
technologies and the application.
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Following the talk, we have a short Q&A
session from your devices at home. You can
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send your questions via Twitter to the
hashtag rc3Hell or via the I.R.C. chat or
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the rocket chat at hashtag
rc3-gehacktesfromhell. Later, you can also
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meet Hans-Peter in a jitsy room called
Discussion.altehölle.de. And now over to
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Hans-Peter.
HP: For 15 years now, I work on methods to
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extract carbon dioxide from the atmosphere
and to sequester the extracted carbon in a
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stable form and then soil on sediments.
And we found in many others who work on
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the same subject found several methods
that can extract significant amounts of
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carbon dioxide. And also methods that can
transform the extracted carbon dioxide
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into stable carbon forms that do not
degrade biologically or chemically. And
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the Ithaca Institute for which I work also
developed the first carbon sink
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certificate, and it can certify and assess
the amount of carbon that are stored in
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carbon sinks. And now at the end of 21, we
are the stage that several of these
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technologies could be scaled and have to
be scaled to reach the objectives of
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climate policy. But this scale up of these
technologies is so massive that it will
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have an influence on the geo physics of
our planet and that we have to consider
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and those risks we have to sink them now.
Without. Further waiting. To scale climate
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technologies, but we need to take care
that the scale up is done sustainably and
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and in our talk, I want you to make some
of these points that we will not hopefully
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save the climate to get extinguished by
other means and didn't. So did. The
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situation is rather clear, and most in the
world, most governments and people are
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understood by now that we need to reduce
the emissions to close to zero by 2050.
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And and in all scenarios, we should have
reached already the point of highest
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emissions by now. But in fact, emissions
still rise. But. Everybody counts on on
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emissions reductions to happen rather
soon. So to be honest, we cannot see these
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reductions happening in the close future,
but. Let's let's assume emissions will be
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reduced, then according to the plan, until
2050, even then, we will need massive
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carbon sinks because of the effect of the
CO2 that was already admitted to the
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atmosphere and that is not degraded, but
has a global warming effect that continues
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for several hundreds and thousands and
thousands of years. So to clean up legacy
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emissions, we need to extract carbon
dioxide from the atmosphere and need to
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establish carbon sinks. And we know that
if everything goes according to all the
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plans of the Paris Treaty and other
decision makers. Then we need to extract
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800 billion tons of CO2 from the
atmosphere by the year 2100. So this is
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not to balance further emissions. This is
only to balance the effect of the
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emissions already occured, but the
technologies that are available to extract
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carbon dioxide, they are called the
negative emission technologies. It's
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negative because it's positive is when you
emit to somewhere negative would be just
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this abstraction. Not a nice name, but
that's what it is. So net technologies are
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nature based like afforestation and the
growth of biomass, which in fact is the
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way to extract natural carbon dioxide from
the atmosphere. And as long as these
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biomass is growing and does not decompose,
carbon is stored. However, when you
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transform the biomass carbon by pyrolysis
into a stable form like biochar and
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paralytic oiles, this transformed carbon
can be stored for longer times. And that's
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what is here in the middle of the biochar
or power organic carbon capture and
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storage method, which is partly nature
based and partly persistent and measurable
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because you have long term carbon sink
that cannot just go away by accident, like
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in a forest fire. There are other means
like enhanced weathering take volcanic
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stone powders that can react to
carbonates. And then there is direct air
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capture is when when you extract by
adsorption the CO2 and so you filter air
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and extract CO2 and transform it then into
something that you can store. So our
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specialty is picks the biochar method and
just shortly to show you how this works.
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So you have biomass, you heat the biomass
in the absence of air. Up to 400 to 800
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degrees and then it's like cooking without
air. And these biomass and then you have
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solid residue, which is the biochar and
liquid residue that you can condense from
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the gas phase, which is the paralytic oil.
And you still have a permanent gas, which
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usually is combusted to drive the whole
process, which is energy neutral. So you
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do not need external energy to run this
process. And and then this biochar can be
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used, for example in agryculture to
increase yields and to improve soil
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quality. And then this makes that you can
grow more biomass that then again, can go
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back to to the production of biomass and
then transforming by paralysis by truck
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can also be used in industrial products
and in building materials in plastics and
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and composite materials where the carbon
does not decompose. Neither. So so this is
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in very short what is picks out any carbon
capture and storage. This is a pyrolysis
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unit of of a smaller size that can produce
up to something like 1500 tonnes of
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biochar per year. So shortly again, how it
looks inside paralysis, so biomass that is
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shredded to smaller particles goes into
this screwdriver. And so it's avoided. Any
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air can enter this process and then it
goes into this cruel reactor and the
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biomass is transported here in this
reactor, which is heated from environment
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temperature of 20 degrees up to 600
decrease. And then the biochar is the
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solid residue of this cooking. It flows
out of the process, while the other 50
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percent of the carbon is in the gas phase,
which is separated here. And then in this
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case, all the gases are burned to produce
thermic energy that drives the process and
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is then be used for heating purposes.
However, if you do not burn the gases, you
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can also condense the gases and use the
liquid off of the process. And the biochar
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is looks like this. It's a very porous
material that conserves the biological
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structure. Here you have a piece of wood
that is carbonized. It looks like
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charcoal. And if you look on the
microscope, you see this enormous porous
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structure, which explains a lot of
functions and effects that we see in
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biochar. For example, you can impregnate
it was organic fertilizers, and then all
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these pores are filled with organic
fertilizers is preserved, so it cannot be
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leached out. The soil and plants and
microbes can feed from this conserved
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organic fertilizers. So we have an effect
of this biochar on economic systems. But
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what I want to talk about today is only
the effect that if you put this biochar to
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soil this carbon, which was CO2 in the
atmosphere, which was assimilated by the
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biomass which was transformed in the
pyrolysis, to aromatic carbon, which is
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this black stuff, this aromatic carbon
cannot be degraded over centuries by
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microorganisms. So if you put it to soil,
it is a long term carbon sink. So. To have
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a global effect, we need a lot of biomass.
In the European context we could say,
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yeah, we use residual biomass leftovers
from food processing or harvest residues
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or manure or sewage sludge. So these are
all biomass that could be transformed by
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pyrolysis. However, the amount of this
residue carbon is not as much as it could
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have a climate effect. We need a lot more
biomass, and it means we have to grow
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biomass, especially for the extraction of
carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and the
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transformation by pyrolysis. So we have to
combine. Carbon farming systems was picks
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or separates any carbon capture and
storage. And there are different methods
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that are not just monocultures, highly
intensive production, but these are, what
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we call carbon farming systems, like you
can see here. These are several arable. So
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you combine wood and crops with arable
crops, or you have this kind of
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agroforestry systems that are highly
productive in regard to biomass. Instead
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of having just pastries, you can have zero
pastries. So animals range below trees
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that produce additional biomass. We would
also need eggy farms that are highly
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productive and could be combined to
shellfish and Ardis, which also clean
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coastal water from exceeding nutrients.
And so we can see that if we investigate
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different farming systems, that in
addition to food production, because we do
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not want to replace food production by
biomass production, but in addition to
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food production, which is the green bar in
the tropical agroforestry system, we can
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produce the same amount of food as now.
But in addition, we can produce biomass
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for carbon sequestration. Also in systems
like Tropical Forest Garden, you can have
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both. And you can intensify the systems.
However, the suggested eucalyptus
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monoculture, as you can see here is would
only be for carbon capture and would not
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produce fruit. And as you can see, is not
very efficient anyway. It just doesn't
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make much work. And also, marine seaweed
is quite efficient in this regard. Now, if
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you come back, if we want now this part,
this green part, this is the carbon sink
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part that we need to balance global
temperatures and we know we need 270
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billion tonnes of carbon in this carbon
sink. So this is 800 gigatons CO2
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equivalent. And what does it mean, if we
would with this message, Paragon carbon
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capture and storage deliver 30 % of the
necessary carbon sink. What does it mean
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for global resources? So for this to
happen, for this 30% of the minimum
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necessary carbon sink, we would need about
100 billion tonnes of biochar and that
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gigatons of biochar into 2100. And just to
get an imagination on how much this is,
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this is the amount of 1500 of this
Matterhorn mountains. So the volume of one
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Matterhorn that you find in the Swiss Alps
multiplied by 1500 was dense biochar. So
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just the imagination of how much we need
to extract and sink. And that's only 30%.
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And this amount corresponds to a thin
layer of two centimeter of biochar to a
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centimeter of biochar on each hectare of
global agricultural land. So we would have
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to cover all agricultural land by two
centimeters of biochar, which then will be
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dicked or plowed into the soil as a carbon
sink. So it is a massive, massive mess and
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it only makes 30 percent of the biochar.
So we would need to produce this amount of
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biochar. We would need 190 gigatons of
biomass. And. So this and it's kind of 90
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gigatons of biomass. We need to compare to
the global standing biomass. And that's
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about 0.8 percent of the global standing
biomass and 0.8 percent of the global
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standing biomass would have to be
paralyzed every year from the year 2050 to
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2100 to produce the amount of carbon sink.
That's necessary to preserve 30 percent of
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the climate. And that would need about he
handed 80000 industrial paralysis plants.
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So we calculated and looked and what does
it mean to produce 500000 pyrolysis
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industrial pyrolysis plants? We imagine it
could be, or there has to be produced in
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chain production like cars. But to reach
the negative emission potential that's
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necessary by 2050, we need an exponential
growth of the production of this pyrolysis
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units, which would be possible. And you
you see you see here, this is the blue
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line. So we have this exponential growth.
And as you can see, we have then the
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slowdown of of the growth of absolute
numbers. So the the orange line here, you
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see the production numbers per year, so
you have to grow until 2043 to produce
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50000 units per year. But then you have to
to slow down the production because we can
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only use 400000 pyrolysis units on Earth.
After that, we do not have more biomass to
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treat. So we need an exponential growth
because of the severity of the problem of
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the problem. And then we need an
exponential growth after 2043 to a steady
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state of the production of few plants that
are needed to renew these standing plants.
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So this is a very interesting from
economic point of view, and we will see
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this in several areas because of the
global economy and global problems and the
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global limits of resources that we need.
Exponential growth and growth for several
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technologies. And how that will be done.
It's very interesting. That's subject of
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today. So, so you saw it's massive. What
would be needed? 400000 plants in one
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plant costs about 1.3 million euro, so
that's about 500 billion euro, and that is
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not so much in the end, it's less than 50
percent of the annual military spending.
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So from an economic point of view, it
would certainly be possible to make it
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happen. So more problematic is how can we
make it happen on an economic point of
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view? Financially, this is very
attractive, as we can see first, the
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production of the industrial units and
then you have a global carbon sink market.
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If you calculate a 100 per tonne of CO2
equivalent and we know how much CO2 we
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need to extract. So this is a 400 billion
euro markets per year only for carbon sink
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credits. So massive and very interested
market. And that's why you see a lot of
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financial institutes going already now
into these markets. Well, what do we have
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with the risks and side effects? So. The
0.8 percent of the global plant mess that
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has to be paralyzed every year, that's
about 0.75 ton biomass per hectare of
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agricultural land. So if we extract from
every sector of the world's crop land and
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bit less than one ton of biomass, we could
solve the problem so that that's not seem
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too much. However, this biomass is
everywhere, and there are now millions of
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farmers that all would have to be
convinced to do it. And then we have to
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bring the industry close to them so that
they can extract the biomass. So let's say
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if 10 percent of agricultural land was
used for biomass production by carbon
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farming. So we set aside 10 percent of the
global agricultural land and then we only
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need 7.5 tons of biomass per hectare. And
that would be feasible because thanks to
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biochar based fertilization, crop
productivity can increase about more than
00:24:36.960 --> 00:24:45.840
20 percent. So to have 10 percent aside
would be possible. So let's say. It would,
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in theory, be possible to produce the
biomass necessary for the carbon sinks on
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the available agricultural land without
decreasing food production. But in the
00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:10.960
last five minutes of my talk, I want to
give you another outlook because socially
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and environmentally, it's still very much
on the edge to do this huge scaling carbon
00:25:19.040 --> 00:25:29.200
by organic carbon storage project, because
we have several other problems on Earth
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and not only the climate problem, we have
the biodiversity crisis, other ecosystem
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crisis and therefore the Half Earths
project was announced about five years ago
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to say that. It is needed that 50 percent
of the Earth's surface is preserved for
00:25:57.840 --> 00:26:06.560
nature recovery, and there are, in fact,
quite a lot of governments that agreed to
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this program astonishingly. And it has a
lot of support this initiative from Archie
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Wilson. You find more information and half
earths project on the website that you see
00:26:24.160 --> 00:26:29.920
here below, because that's that's the
point. If we do all this climate action,
00:26:29.920 --> 00:26:36.720
we do not have enough land to preserve it
for natural revival. However, we have
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technology that's possible. And in the
latest Saudi Arabian solar energy project,
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the kilowatt hour was produced at zero
point eighty eight cents. And that means
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energy becomes so cheap that we have new
possibilities for technology to produce.
00:27:02.320 --> 00:27:14.240
In fact, carbon sinks without plants. So
the Obrist company, they created this
00:27:14.240 --> 00:27:22.960
project a fuel, which is methanol factory
that runs entirely on renewable powered
00:27:22.960 --> 00:27:32.320
energy, so you have this large solar
panels and then you have here. The
00:27:32.320 --> 00:27:40.080
chemistry that's behind. So in short, you
have direct air capture here where you
00:27:40.080 --> 00:27:48.800
filter out the CO2 from the atmosphere.
The energy is used for electrolysis that
00:27:48.800 --> 00:27:56.000
is done with desalinated water. So they
produce hydrogen from desalinated water,
00:27:56.000 --> 00:28:04.480
which the solar energy. And with the CO2
from direct air capture, there is methanol
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synthesized. In methanol is a liquid form
of carbon. It's a bit like alcohol, but
00:28:12.080 --> 00:28:18.480
just methanol, and which is not toxic,
which can be pumped, which can be
00:28:18.480 --> 00:28:23.440
transported, which can be used as a fuel,
and which could also be used as a carbon
00:28:23.440 --> 00:28:29.840
sink. So you can find here and when you
have more time, you can go into details.
00:28:31.040 --> 00:28:40.560
We calculated the total balance. So for
500000 tons of carbon dioxide equivalent
00:28:40.560 --> 00:28:45.360
in the carbon sink, so that means we
extract 500000 tons of CO2 from the
00:28:45.360 --> 00:28:53.440
atmosphere. We need 11.5 km^2 square
kilometers of solar panels that produce
00:28:54.880 --> 00:29:01.600
6000 gigawatt hour of energy. Part of this
energy is used for the direct air capture.
00:29:01.600 --> 00:29:06.240
Part of this energy is used for
desalination and electrolysis, which
00:29:06.240 --> 00:29:14.800
produces oxygen, and then the hydrogen and
CO2 are synthesized to methanol great
00:29:14.800 --> 00:29:20.480
produce some energy that goes back to the
process. We produce also water that also
00:29:20.480 --> 00:29:26.320
goes back to the process. And then you
have the carbon sink. And this methanol,
00:29:26.320 --> 00:29:36.320
in fact, can be pumped back into old
fossil storages like in the Saudi Arabian
00:29:36.320 --> 00:29:49.280
desert. And so we scale this up and. We
would need only 21% of the surface of
00:29:49.280 --> 00:29:58.880
Saudi Arabia used for this Methanol carbon
sink technology to sequester the necessary
00:29:58.880 --> 00:30:07.400
800 gigatons of CO2 equivalent and pump it
back into abundant fossil oilfields until
00:30:07.400 --> 00:30:19.280
2100. And the interesting thing here is
that only. This is only 10 percent of the
00:30:19.280 --> 00:30:26.480
surface that would be needed if we do the
same thing with plants and biomass and
00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:34.400
where everything works perfectly optimized
without chemical fertilizer, without
00:30:34.400 --> 00:30:39.600
irrigation and not counting the risk of
fire. And as a disaster is happening to
00:30:39.600 --> 00:30:46.320
the biomass production, there is this
technological solution. I think we could
00:30:46.320 --> 00:30:57.520
prepare the biggest, the biggest hack
ever. To turn. The Arabian fossil fuel
00:30:57.520 --> 00:31:05.040
producers into carbon sink produces and
pumped back the liquified carbon extracted
00:31:05.040 --> 00:31:15.256
from the atmosphere to the fossil
oilfields. Thank you very much.
00:31:15.256 --> 00:31:30.080
Herald: So how can we avoid the risk of
deployment of CO2 sinks becoming a cheap
00:31:30.080 --> 00:31:36.400
excuse for not pursuing the necessary
reduction of CO2 emissions on the other
00:31:36.400 --> 00:31:41.680
hand?
HP: Yeah, this is this is and the main
00:31:42.240 --> 00:31:48.640
problem, I think now when we enter this
carbon sink markets, because all the
00:31:48.640 --> 00:31:56.400
carbon sinks to the bottom now are used
for emission compensation. And but but we
00:31:56.400 --> 00:32:04.880
have no choice. We have to curb the
emissions. So normally policy makers
00:32:04.880 --> 00:32:11.680
should defend the compensation of
emissions with carbon sinks because the
00:32:11.680 --> 00:32:18.080
carbon sinks we need for the compensation
of legacy emissions of all the CO2 it was
00:32:18.080 --> 00:32:27.040
already emitted before now.
Herald: Yes. So how do you estimate the
00:32:27.040 --> 00:32:32.080
potential of picks against the background
of increasing interest in biomass for
00:32:32.080 --> 00:32:41.040
food, energy and chemical industry?
HP: Yeah, we need all of it. And we will
00:32:41.040 --> 00:32:48.320
not have enough of it. And that's why I
presented the possibility to extract
00:32:48.320 --> 00:32:54.000
carbon dioxide from the atmosphere, for
the chemical industry, for fuel, for
00:32:54.000 --> 00:33:01.120
materials, for plastics and also for
carbon sinks. I think we will not achieve
00:33:02.960 --> 00:33:09.360
the protection of our ecosystems and of
the climate with the biomass that we have
00:33:09.360 --> 00:33:13.574
on the planet only.
Herald: All right. Actually, just a fourth
00:33:13.574 --> 00:33:20.933
question came in. I think we have time for
one more little question. How can we be
00:33:20.933 --> 00:33:26.510
sure that Oprah's would be more successful
than an example? Desertec.
00:33:26.510 --> 00:33:32.090
HP: And what was the first one?
Herald: How can we be sure that this
00:33:32.090 --> 00:33:36.053
operation will be more successful than
this attack?
00:33:36.053 --> 00:33:43.520
HP: Yeah, I. The economics are much better
now because solar energy is so much
00:33:43.520 --> 00:33:50.565
cheaper than 20 years ago when desetec
started, and the system is more complex
00:33:50.565 --> 00:33:58.418
because of decoupling with chemical
industry with carbon sink, and the
00:33:58.418 --> 00:34:07.194
necessity is also higher. So I think we we
can achieve this and and desetec is not
00:34:07.194 --> 00:34:12.398
dead yet and could continue also towards
more complex systems.
00:34:12.398 --> 00:34:18.900
Herald: All right, thank you. Hans-Peter,
thank you very much. I'm saying goodbye to
00:34:18.900 --> 00:34:24.553
you in the stream now about everyone is
invited to join further discussion in the
00:34:24.553 --> 00:34:27.805
Jitsy room now, which you can reach and
discussion dort alte-hoelle@de Goodbye
00:34:27.805 --> 00:34:40.884
from Bierscheune and sieh you in the jitsi
room.
00:34:40.884 --> 00:34:50.531
HP: Thank you.
00:34:50.531 --> 00:34:55.354
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00:34:55.354 --> 00:35:00.815
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