WEBVTT 00:00:05.191 --> 00:00:08.517 *rc3 preroll music 2021* 00:00:08.517 --> 00:00:12.080 Herald: Welcome to the "gehacktes from Hell", we're streaming from the 00:00:12.080 --> 00:00:17.120 Bierscheune in Alte Hölle in Brandenburg. The coming talk, looks at the method of 00:00:17.120 --> 00:00:22.240 carbon sinking, a way to limit climate change. Hans-Peter Schmidt will tell us 00:00:22.240 --> 00:00:27.040 how to do this with the help of biochar. We're really happy to have him as a 00:00:27.040 --> 00:00:31.920 speaker because Hans-Peter is a pioneer in the field of biochar science, and he has 00:00:31.920 --> 00:00:35.600 worked on the development of its technologies and the application. 00:00:36.720 --> 00:00:41.440 Following the talk, we have a short Q&A session from your devices at home. You can 00:00:41.440 --> 00:00:49.840 send your questions via Twitter to the hashtag rc3Hell or via the I.R.C. chat or 00:00:49.840 --> 00:00:59.120 the rocket chat at hashtag rc3-gehacktesfromhell. Later, you can also 00:00:59.120 --> 00:01:09.120 meet Hans-Peter in a jitsy room called Discussion.altehölle.de. And now over to 00:01:09.120 --> 00:01:15.570 Hans-Peter. HP: For 15 years now, I work on methods to 00:01:15.570 --> 00:01:24.844 extract carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and to sequester the extracted carbon in a 00:01:24.844 --> 00:01:34.702 stable form and then soil on sediments. And we found in many others who work on 00:01:34.702 --> 00:01:45.494 the same subject found several methods that can extract significant amounts of 00:01:45.494 --> 00:01:55.258 carbon dioxide. And also methods that can transform the extracted carbon dioxide 00:01:55.258 --> 00:02:02.728 into stable carbon forms that do not degrade biologically or chemically. And 00:02:02.728 --> 00:02:11.962 the Ithaca Institute for which I work also developed the first carbon sink 00:02:11.962 --> 00:02:22.871 certificate, and it can certify and assess the amount of carbon that are stored in 00:02:22.871 --> 00:02:32.858 carbon sinks. And now at the end of 21, we are the stage that several of these 00:02:32.858 --> 00:02:41.790 technologies could be scaled and have to be scaled to reach the objectives of 00:02:41.790 --> 00:02:53.200 climate policy. But this scale up of these technologies is so massive that it will 00:02:53.200 --> 00:03:03.780 have an influence on the geo physics of our planet and that we have to consider 00:03:03.780 --> 00:03:15.988 and those risks we have to sink them now. Without. Further waiting. To scale climate 00:03:15.988 --> 00:03:28.960 technologies, but we need to take care that the scale up is done sustainably and 00:03:30.400 --> 00:03:40.080 and in our talk, I want you to make some of these points that we will not hopefully 00:03:40.080 --> 00:03:49.920 save the climate to get extinguished by other means and didn't. So did. The 00:03:49.920 --> 00:03:57.920 situation is rather clear, and most in the world, most governments and people are 00:03:57.920 --> 00:04:06.320 understood by now that we need to reduce the emissions to close to zero by 2050. 00:04:08.880 --> 00:04:16.480 And and in all scenarios, we should have reached already the point of highest 00:04:16.480 --> 00:04:28.053 emissions by now. But in fact, emissions still rise. But. Everybody counts on on 00:04:28.053 --> 00:04:39.336 emissions reductions to happen rather soon. So to be honest, we cannot see these 00:04:39.336 --> 00:04:46.542 reductions happening in the close future, but. Let's let's assume emissions will be 00:04:46.542 --> 00:05:05.920 reduced, then according to the plan, until 2050, even then, we will need massive 00:05:05.920 --> 00:05:11.520 carbon sinks because of the effect of the CO2 that was already admitted to the 00:05:11.520 --> 00:05:17.840 atmosphere and that is not degraded, but has a global warming effect that continues 00:05:17.840 --> 00:05:27.600 for several hundreds and thousands and thousands of years. So to clean up legacy 00:05:27.600 --> 00:05:36.000 emissions, we need to extract carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and need to 00:05:36.000 --> 00:05:45.520 establish carbon sinks. And we know that if everything goes according to all the 00:05:45.520 --> 00:06:00.480 plans of the Paris Treaty and other decision makers. Then we need to extract 00:06:00.480 --> 00:06:07.488 800 billion tons of CO2 from the atmosphere by the year 2100. So this is 00:06:07.488 --> 00:06:16.234 not to balance further emissions. This is only to balance the effect of the 00:06:16.234 --> 00:06:22.807 emissions already occured, but the technologies that are available to extract 00:06:22.807 --> 00:06:28.412 carbon dioxide, they are called the negative emission technologies. It's 00:06:28.412 --> 00:06:34.676 negative because it's positive is when you emit to somewhere negative would be just 00:06:34.676 --> 00:06:42.619 this abstraction. Not a nice name, but that's what it is. So net technologies are 00:06:42.619 --> 00:06:50.168 nature based like afforestation and the growth of biomass, which in fact is the 00:06:50.168 --> 00:06:56.160 way to extract natural carbon dioxide from the atmosphere. And as long as these 00:06:56.160 --> 00:07:03.683 biomass is growing and does not decompose, carbon is stored. However, when you 00:07:03.683 --> 00:07:13.376 transform the biomass carbon by pyrolysis into a stable form like biochar and 00:07:13.376 --> 00:07:21.113 paralytic oiles, this transformed carbon can be stored for longer times. And that's 00:07:21.113 --> 00:07:26.793 what is here in the middle of the biochar or power organic carbon capture and 00:07:26.793 --> 00:07:33.738 storage method, which is partly nature based and partly persistent and measurable 00:07:33.738 --> 00:07:40.438 because you have long term carbon sink that cannot just go away by accident, like 00:07:40.438 --> 00:07:48.057 in a forest fire. There are other means like enhanced weathering take volcanic 00:07:48.057 --> 00:07:56.410 stone powders that can react to carbonates. And then there is direct air 00:07:56.410 --> 00:08:06.240 capture is when when you extract by adsorption the CO2 and so you filter air 00:08:06.240 --> 00:08:15.595 and extract CO2 and transform it then into something that you can store. So our 00:08:15.595 --> 00:08:25.840 specialty is picks the biochar method and just shortly to show you how this works. 00:08:28.800 --> 00:08:39.280 So you have biomass, you heat the biomass in the absence of air. Up to 400 to 800 00:08:39.280 --> 00:08:47.040 degrees and then it's like cooking without air. And these biomass and then you have 00:08:47.040 --> 00:08:53.600 solid residue, which is the biochar and liquid residue that you can condense from 00:08:53.600 --> 00:09:00.080 the gas phase, which is the paralytic oil. And you still have a permanent gas, which 00:09:00.080 --> 00:09:10.160 usually is combusted to drive the whole process, which is energy neutral. So you 00:09:10.160 --> 00:09:18.160 do not need external energy to run this process. And and then this biochar can be 00:09:18.160 --> 00:09:24.720 used, for example in agryculture to increase yields and to improve soil 00:09:24.720 --> 00:09:32.960 quality. And then this makes that you can grow more biomass that then again, can go 00:09:32.960 --> 00:09:42.320 back to to the production of biomass and then transforming by paralysis by truck 00:09:42.320 --> 00:09:50.095 can also be used in industrial products and in building materials in plastics and 00:09:50.095 --> 00:09:59.080 and composite materials where the carbon does not decompose. Neither. So so this is 00:09:59.080 --> 00:10:08.347 in very short what is picks out any carbon capture and storage. This is a pyrolysis 00:10:08.347 --> 00:10:17.774 unit of of a smaller size that can produce up to something like 1500 tonnes of 00:10:17.774 --> 00:10:27.822 biochar per year. So shortly again, how it looks inside paralysis, so biomass that is 00:10:27.822 --> 00:10:36.434 shredded to smaller particles goes into this screwdriver. And so it's avoided. Any 00:10:36.434 --> 00:10:44.976 air can enter this process and then it goes into this cruel reactor and the 00:10:44.976 --> 00:10:51.851 biomass is transported here in this reactor, which is heated from environment 00:10:51.851 --> 00:10:58.565 temperature of 20 degrees up to 600 decrease. And then the biochar is the 00:10:58.565 --> 00:11:06.384 solid residue of this cooking. It flows out of the process, while the other 50 00:11:06.384 --> 00:11:13.560 percent of the carbon is in the gas phase, which is separated here. And then in this 00:11:13.560 --> 00:11:22.712 case, all the gases are burned to produce thermic energy that drives the process and 00:11:22.712 --> 00:11:29.644 is then be used for heating purposes. However, if you do not burn the gases, you 00:11:29.644 --> 00:11:38.934 can also condense the gases and use the liquid off of the process. And the biochar 00:11:38.934 --> 00:11:47.909 is looks like this. It's a very porous material that conserves the biological 00:11:47.909 --> 00:11:54.200 structure. Here you have a piece of wood that is carbonized. It looks like 00:11:54.200 --> 00:12:00.043 charcoal. And if you look on the microscope, you see this enormous porous 00:12:00.043 --> 00:12:05.755 structure, which explains a lot of functions and effects that we see in 00:12:05.755 --> 00:12:13.050 biochar. For example, you can impregnate it was organic fertilizers, and then all 00:12:13.050 --> 00:12:19.450 these pores are filled with organic fertilizers is preserved, so it cannot be 00:12:19.450 --> 00:12:27.185 leached out. The soil and plants and microbes can feed from this conserved 00:12:27.185 --> 00:12:35.397 organic fertilizers. So we have an effect of this biochar on economic systems. But 00:12:35.397 --> 00:12:42.870 what I want to talk about today is only the effect that if you put this biochar to 00:12:42.870 --> 00:12:50.185 soil this carbon, which was CO2 in the atmosphere, which was assimilated by the 00:12:50.185 --> 00:12:57.490 biomass which was transformed in the pyrolysis, to aromatic carbon, which is 00:12:57.490 --> 00:13:04.763 this black stuff, this aromatic carbon cannot be degraded over centuries by 00:13:04.763 --> 00:13:15.120 microorganisms. So if you put it to soil, it is a long term carbon sink. So. To have 00:13:15.120 --> 00:13:25.494 a global effect, we need a lot of biomass. In the European context we could say, 00:13:25.494 --> 00:13:36.160 yeah, we use residual biomass leftovers from food processing or harvest residues 00:13:36.880 --> 00:13:45.280 or manure or sewage sludge. So these are all biomass that could be transformed by 00:13:45.280 --> 00:13:56.480 pyrolysis. However, the amount of this residue carbon is not as much as it could 00:13:56.480 --> 00:14:03.200 have a climate effect. We need a lot more biomass, and it means we have to grow 00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:11.680 biomass, especially for the extraction of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and the 00:14:11.680 --> 00:14:20.880 transformation by pyrolysis. So we have to combine. Carbon farming systems was picks 00:14:20.880 --> 00:14:26.000 or separates any carbon capture and storage. And there are different methods 00:14:26.000 --> 00:14:35.280 that are not just monocultures, highly intensive production, but these are, what 00:14:35.280 --> 00:14:42.160 we call carbon farming systems, like you can see here. These are several arable. So 00:14:42.160 --> 00:14:54.320 you combine wood and crops with arable crops, or you have this kind of 00:14:54.320 --> 00:15:00.720 agroforestry systems that are highly productive in regard to biomass. Instead 00:15:00.720 --> 00:15:07.520 of having just pastries, you can have zero pastries. So animals range below trees 00:15:07.520 --> 00:15:16.960 that produce additional biomass. We would also need eggy farms that are highly 00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:23.431 productive and could be combined to shellfish and Ardis, which also clean 00:15:23.431 --> 00:15:36.140 coastal water from exceeding nutrients. And so we can see that if we investigate 00:15:36.140 --> 00:15:43.164 different farming systems, that in addition to food production, because we do 00:15:43.164 --> 00:15:49.130 not want to replace food production by biomass production, but in addition to 00:15:49.130 --> 00:15:56.765 food production, which is the green bar in the tropical agroforestry system, we can 00:15:56.765 --> 00:16:04.142 produce the same amount of food as now. But in addition, we can produce biomass 00:16:04.142 --> 00:16:10.711 for carbon sequestration. Also in systems like Tropical Forest Garden, you can have 00:16:10.711 --> 00:16:16.089 both. And you can intensify the systems. However, the suggested eucalyptus 00:16:16.089 --> 00:16:24.721 monoculture, as you can see here is would only be for carbon capture and would not 00:16:24.721 --> 00:16:32.205 produce fruit. And as you can see, is not very efficient anyway. It just doesn't 00:16:32.205 --> 00:16:41.225 make much work. And also, marine seaweed is quite efficient in this regard. Now, if 00:16:41.225 --> 00:16:47.786 you come back, if we want now this part, this green part, this is the carbon sink 00:16:47.786 --> 00:16:53.449 part that we need to balance global temperatures and we know we need 270 00:16:53.449 --> 00:17:00.506 billion tonnes of carbon in this carbon sink. So this is 800 gigatons CO2 00:17:00.506 --> 00:17:07.120 equivalent. And what does it mean, if we would with this message, Paragon carbon 00:17:07.120 --> 00:17:14.256 capture and storage deliver 30 % of the necessary carbon sink. What does it mean 00:17:14.256 --> 00:17:21.032 for global resources? So for this to happen, for this 30% of the minimum 00:17:21.032 --> 00:17:28.166 necessary carbon sink, we would need about 100 billion tonnes of biochar and that 00:17:28.166 --> 00:17:37.411 gigatons of biochar into 2100. And just to get an imagination on how much this is, 00:17:37.411 --> 00:17:46.560 this is the amount of 1500 of this Matterhorn mountains. So the volume of one 00:17:46.560 --> 00:17:56.120 Matterhorn that you find in the Swiss Alps multiplied by 1500 was dense biochar. So 00:17:56.120 --> 00:18:05.594 just the imagination of how much we need to extract and sink. And that's only 30%. 00:18:05.594 --> 00:18:13.465 And this amount corresponds to a thin layer of two centimeter of biochar to a 00:18:13.465 --> 00:18:22.561 centimeter of biochar on each hectare of global agricultural land. So we would have 00:18:22.561 --> 00:18:30.120 to cover all agricultural land by two centimeters of biochar, which then will be 00:18:30.120 --> 00:18:37.371 dicked or plowed into the soil as a carbon sink. So it is a massive, massive mess and 00:18:37.371 --> 00:18:44.106 it only makes 30 percent of the biochar. So we would need to produce this amount of 00:18:44.106 --> 00:18:54.633 biochar. We would need 190 gigatons of biomass. And. So this and it's kind of 90 00:18:54.633 --> 00:19:05.869 gigatons of biomass. We need to compare to the global standing biomass. And that's 00:19:05.869 --> 00:19:13.049 about 0.8 percent of the global standing biomass and 0.8 percent of the global 00:19:13.049 --> 00:19:22.440 standing biomass would have to be paralyzed every year from the year 2050 to 00:19:22.440 --> 00:19:32.213 2100 to produce the amount of carbon sink. That's necessary to preserve 30 percent of 00:19:32.213 --> 00:19:44.160 the climate. And that would need about he handed 80000 industrial paralysis plants. 00:19:45.760 --> 00:19:55.280 So we calculated and looked and what does it mean to produce 500000 pyrolysis 00:19:55.280 --> 00:20:01.360 industrial pyrolysis plants? We imagine it could be, or there has to be produced in 00:20:01.360 --> 00:20:12.320 chain production like cars. But to reach the negative emission potential that's 00:20:12.320 --> 00:20:20.400 necessary by 2050, we need an exponential growth of the production of this pyrolysis 00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:26.160 units, which would be possible. And you you see you see here, this is the blue 00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:34.291 line. So we have this exponential growth. And as you can see, we have then the 00:20:34.291 --> 00:20:44.637 slowdown of of the growth of absolute numbers. So the the orange line here, you 00:20:44.637 --> 00:20:51.252 see the production numbers per year, so you have to grow until 2043 to produce 00:20:51.252 --> 00:20:58.964 50000 units per year. But then you have to to slow down the production because we can 00:20:58.964 --> 00:21:06.802 only use 400000 pyrolysis units on Earth. After that, we do not have more biomass to 00:21:06.802 --> 00:21:13.201 treat. So we need an exponential growth because of the severity of the problem of 00:21:13.201 --> 00:21:21.483 the problem. And then we need an exponential growth after 2043 to a steady 00:21:21.483 --> 00:21:31.058 state of the production of few plants that are needed to renew these standing plants. 00:21:31.058 --> 00:21:36.928 So this is a very interesting from economic point of view, and we will see 00:21:36.928 --> 00:21:44.056 this in several areas because of the global economy and global problems and the 00:21:44.056 --> 00:21:52.800 global limits of resources that we need. Exponential growth and growth for several 00:21:52.800 --> 00:21:58.880 technologies. And how that will be done. It's very interesting. That's subject of 00:21:58.880 --> 00:22:09.280 today. So, so you saw it's massive. What would be needed? 400000 plants in one 00:22:09.280 --> 00:22:17.360 plant costs about 1.3 million euro, so that's about 500 billion euro, and that is 00:22:17.360 --> 00:22:22.800 not so much in the end, it's less than 50 percent of the annual military spending. 00:22:23.440 --> 00:22:28.480 So from an economic point of view, it would certainly be possible to make it 00:22:28.480 --> 00:22:36.480 happen. So more problematic is how can we make it happen on an economic point of 00:22:36.480 --> 00:22:43.440 view? Financially, this is very attractive, as we can see first, the 00:22:43.440 --> 00:22:48.080 production of the industrial units and then you have a global carbon sink market. 00:22:49.520 --> 00:22:55.680 If you calculate a 100 per tonne of CO2 equivalent and we know how much CO2 we 00:22:55.680 --> 00:23:02.880 need to extract. So this is a 400 billion euro markets per year only for carbon sink 00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:09.520 credits. So massive and very interested market. And that's why you see a lot of 00:23:09.520 --> 00:23:14.480 financial institutes going already now into these markets. Well, what do we have 00:23:14.480 --> 00:23:24.160 with the risks and side effects? So. The 0.8 percent of the global plant mess that 00:23:24.160 --> 00:23:33.440 has to be paralyzed every year, that's about 0.75 ton biomass per hectare of 00:23:33.440 --> 00:23:42.800 agricultural land. So if we extract from every sector of the world's crop land and 00:23:42.800 --> 00:23:47.760 bit less than one ton of biomass, we could solve the problem so that that's not seem 00:23:47.760 --> 00:23:55.040 too much. However, this biomass is everywhere, and there are now millions of 00:23:55.040 --> 00:23:58.640 farmers that all would have to be convinced to do it. And then we have to 00:23:58.640 --> 00:24:06.160 bring the industry close to them so that they can extract the biomass. So let's say 00:24:06.160 --> 00:24:11.040 if 10 percent of agricultural land was used for biomass production by carbon 00:24:11.040 --> 00:24:19.200 farming. So we set aside 10 percent of the global agricultural land and then we only 00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:29.440 need 7.5 tons of biomass per hectare. And that would be feasible because thanks to 00:24:29.440 --> 00:24:36.960 biochar based fertilization, crop productivity can increase about more than 00:24:36.960 --> 00:24:45.840 20 percent. So to have 10 percent aside would be possible. So let's say. It would, 00:24:47.120 --> 00:24:52.800 in theory, be possible to produce the biomass necessary for the carbon sinks on 00:24:52.800 --> 00:25:02.880 the available agricultural land without decreasing food production. But in the 00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:10.960 last five minutes of my talk, I want to give you another outlook because socially 00:25:10.960 --> 00:25:19.040 and environmentally, it's still very much on the edge to do this huge scaling carbon 00:25:19.040 --> 00:25:29.200 by organic carbon storage project, because we have several other problems on Earth 00:25:29.200 --> 00:25:35.440 and not only the climate problem, we have the biodiversity crisis, other ecosystem 00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:43.920 crisis and therefore the Half Earths project was announced about five years ago 00:25:43.920 --> 00:25:57.840 to say that. It is needed that 50 percent of the Earth's surface is preserved for 00:25:57.840 --> 00:26:06.560 nature recovery, and there are, in fact, quite a lot of governments that agreed to 00:26:06.560 --> 00:26:17.040 this program astonishingly. And it has a lot of support this initiative from Archie 00:26:17.040 --> 00:26:24.160 Wilson. You find more information and half earths project on the website that you see 00:26:24.160 --> 00:26:29.920 here below, because that's that's the point. If we do all this climate action, 00:26:29.920 --> 00:26:36.720 we do not have enough land to preserve it for natural revival. However, we have 00:26:36.720 --> 00:26:44.480 technology that's possible. And in the latest Saudi Arabian solar energy project, 00:26:45.680 --> 00:26:52.720 the kilowatt hour was produced at zero point eighty eight cents. And that means 00:26:52.720 --> 00:27:02.320 energy becomes so cheap that we have new possibilities for technology to produce. 00:27:02.320 --> 00:27:14.240 In fact, carbon sinks without plants. So the Obrist company, they created this 00:27:14.240 --> 00:27:22.960 project a fuel, which is methanol factory that runs entirely on renewable powered 00:27:22.960 --> 00:27:32.320 energy, so you have this large solar panels and then you have here. The 00:27:32.320 --> 00:27:40.080 chemistry that's behind. So in short, you have direct air capture here where you 00:27:40.080 --> 00:27:48.800 filter out the CO2 from the atmosphere. The energy is used for electrolysis that 00:27:48.800 --> 00:27:56.000 is done with desalinated water. So they produce hydrogen from desalinated water, 00:27:56.000 --> 00:28:04.480 which the solar energy. And with the CO2 from direct air capture, there is methanol 00:28:04.480 --> 00:28:12.080 synthesized. In methanol is a liquid form of carbon. It's a bit like alcohol, but 00:28:12.080 --> 00:28:18.480 just methanol, and which is not toxic, which can be pumped, which can be 00:28:18.480 --> 00:28:23.440 transported, which can be used as a fuel, and which could also be used as a carbon 00:28:23.440 --> 00:28:29.840 sink. So you can find here and when you have more time, you can go into details. 00:28:31.040 --> 00:28:40.560 We calculated the total balance. So for 500000 tons of carbon dioxide equivalent 00:28:40.560 --> 00:28:45.360 in the carbon sink, so that means we extract 500000 tons of CO2 from the 00:28:45.360 --> 00:28:53.440 atmosphere. We need 11.5 km^2 square kilometers of solar panels that produce 00:28:54.880 --> 00:29:01.600 6000 gigawatt hour of energy. Part of this energy is used for the direct air capture. 00:29:01.600 --> 00:29:06.240 Part of this energy is used for desalination and electrolysis, which 00:29:06.240 --> 00:29:14.800 produces oxygen, and then the hydrogen and CO2 are synthesized to methanol great 00:29:14.800 --> 00:29:20.480 produce some energy that goes back to the process. We produce also water that also 00:29:20.480 --> 00:29:26.320 goes back to the process. And then you have the carbon sink. And this methanol, 00:29:26.320 --> 00:29:36.320 in fact, can be pumped back into old fossil storages like in the Saudi Arabian 00:29:36.320 --> 00:29:49.280 desert. And so we scale this up and. We would need only 21% of the surface of 00:29:49.280 --> 00:29:58.880 Saudi Arabia used for this Methanol carbon sink technology to sequester the necessary 00:29:58.880 --> 00:30:07.400 800 gigatons of CO2 equivalent and pump it back into abundant fossil oilfields until 00:30:07.400 --> 00:30:19.280 2100. And the interesting thing here is that only. This is only 10 percent of the 00:30:19.280 --> 00:30:26.480 surface that would be needed if we do the same thing with plants and biomass and 00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:34.400 where everything works perfectly optimized without chemical fertilizer, without 00:30:34.400 --> 00:30:39.600 irrigation and not counting the risk of fire. And as a disaster is happening to 00:30:39.600 --> 00:30:46.320 the biomass production, there is this technological solution. I think we could 00:30:46.320 --> 00:30:57.520 prepare the biggest, the biggest hack ever. To turn. The Arabian fossil fuel 00:30:57.520 --> 00:31:05.040 producers into carbon sink produces and pumped back the liquified carbon extracted 00:31:05.040 --> 00:31:15.256 from the atmosphere to the fossil oilfields. Thank you very much. 00:31:15.256 --> 00:31:30.080 Herald: So how can we avoid the risk of deployment of CO2 sinks becoming a cheap 00:31:30.080 --> 00:31:36.400 excuse for not pursuing the necessary reduction of CO2 emissions on the other 00:31:36.400 --> 00:31:41.680 hand? HP: Yeah, this is this is and the main 00:31:42.240 --> 00:31:48.640 problem, I think now when we enter this carbon sink markets, because all the 00:31:48.640 --> 00:31:56.400 carbon sinks to the bottom now are used for emission compensation. And but but we 00:31:56.400 --> 00:32:04.880 have no choice. We have to curb the emissions. So normally policy makers 00:32:04.880 --> 00:32:11.680 should defend the compensation of emissions with carbon sinks because the 00:32:11.680 --> 00:32:18.080 carbon sinks we need for the compensation of legacy emissions of all the CO2 it was 00:32:18.080 --> 00:32:27.040 already emitted before now. Herald: Yes. So how do you estimate the 00:32:27.040 --> 00:32:32.080 potential of picks against the background of increasing interest in biomass for 00:32:32.080 --> 00:32:41.040 food, energy and chemical industry? HP: Yeah, we need all of it. And we will 00:32:41.040 --> 00:32:48.320 not have enough of it. And that's why I presented the possibility to extract 00:32:48.320 --> 00:32:54.000 carbon dioxide from the atmosphere, for the chemical industry, for fuel, for 00:32:54.000 --> 00:33:01.120 materials, for plastics and also for carbon sinks. I think we will not achieve 00:33:02.960 --> 00:33:09.360 the protection of our ecosystems and of the climate with the biomass that we have 00:33:09.360 --> 00:33:13.574 on the planet only. Herald: All right. Actually, just a fourth 00:33:13.574 --> 00:33:20.933 question came in. I think we have time for one more little question. How can we be 00:33:20.933 --> 00:33:26.510 sure that Oprah's would be more successful than an example? Desertec. 00:33:26.510 --> 00:33:32.090 HP: And what was the first one? Herald: How can we be sure that this 00:33:32.090 --> 00:33:36.053 operation will be more successful than this attack? 00:33:36.053 --> 00:33:43.520 HP: Yeah, I. The economics are much better now because solar energy is so much 00:33:43.520 --> 00:33:50.565 cheaper than 20 years ago when desetec started, and the system is more complex 00:33:50.565 --> 00:33:58.418 because of decoupling with chemical industry with carbon sink, and the 00:33:58.418 --> 00:34:07.194 necessity is also higher. So I think we we can achieve this and and desetec is not 00:34:07.194 --> 00:34:12.398 dead yet and could continue also towards more complex systems. 00:34:12.398 --> 00:34:18.900 Herald: All right, thank you. Hans-Peter, thank you very much. I'm saying goodbye to 00:34:18.900 --> 00:34:24.553 you in the stream now about everyone is invited to join further discussion in the 00:34:24.553 --> 00:34:27.805 Jitsy room now, which you can reach and discussion dort alte-hoelle@de Goodbye 00:34:27.805 --> 00:34:40.884 from Bierscheune and sieh you in the jitsi room. 00:34:40.884 --> 00:34:50.531 HP: Thank you. 00:34:50.531 --> 00:34:55.354 *rc3 postroll music 2021* 00:34:55.354 --> 00:35:00.815 Subtitles created by many many volunteers and the c3subtitles.de team. Join us, and help us!