very strong into journey
delays half measures
so-called market solutions it very
specifically criticizes
carbon markets a carbon offsetting
everything.
Probably the most significant parliament
that the picture
is the foreign grounding
of
the culture
of frenetic
consumption
in the wealthy world among the wealthy,
and this is a really significant because I think large parts
of the climate change discussion
trial they have it all ways and say no,
we just will just have a green growth.
Well just how
well it will consume green products
and
you know this goes a lot deeper than that and says no.
We need to get at the
underlying there are used
there are
feeling this cultural frenetic conception that is entirely
unsustainable.
Now like you mentioned the fact that the pope calls repeatedly in
the encyclical for radical change,
I want to ask you about a specific
citation from the leaked document
that period earlier this week,
he said.
And in a corrupt
culture
we can't believe that laws will be enough to change behaviors
that affect the environment,
could you talk specifically about that about the laws that he may
be referring to there.
Well,
I think that
when he referring to corruption
and I believe he referring to the influence of
polling companies and multinational corporations which we also put
out
the encyclical
and I think this is one of the most significant thing about the
darkness.
One might expect
of a religious talking about climate change
you erased
difference right say
we're,
we're all in this together
and certainly a possibility.
Earth has our common home
but it also recognizes
explicitly the power dynamics
in
capitalism,
which is to say that there are forces witnesses
and they're
actively working against
change
and
and that is probably well he's referring to when he's talking
about
how there may be lots that the laws are enforced.
And you know I do you know the laws are also inadequate,
which is also addressed
in the in the dark
and it has a very specific
calls for
know I'm not aware of all the environmental law.
I wish to pay the darkness.
I haven't been able to look at,
look at
you know closely enough
and another thing I have to say if you know I am.
You know I
have accepted and this invitation to
seek a confidence
which
is a
do you more deeply into the darkness.
Because
there is an understanding that it does take time to digest a
document
at this
this multi-layered
and it
requires
that kind of deeper
and I think that this intervention
5 months ahead of the UN climate
conference in Paris
is tremendously significant,
it's going to push political leaders
should go further.
It's gonna be a tool for social movements,
a lot of the language of the kind of justice movement has just
been adopted by the pope and you you know phrases like ecological
debt.
The pub is talking about the death
well world owes to the poor.
This is a frightening
that comes,
originally
from Ecuador
from the
against drilling in the Amazon
and you know that he's he's.
This is a phrase that was
you never heard in mainstream circles.
Until
now,
just now actually,
I mean,
I've never seen such a mainstream
use of that term.
So it is very important
in that way,
but I mean I have to say on a personal level,
that
as as thrilled as I am
that the,
that that that the Vatican is leading in this way,
you know this pope is leading this way
and bringing together the fight against poverty with
the fight
on climate change.
That doesn't mean
there's a
complete merger between the crime and justice movement in the
Vatican,
you know,
I mean obviously there are huge differences that remain over
issues
like
is quality
a reproductive rights and freedom
to name just a few.
Nathan Schneider your columnist
with the Catholic weekly America
you've been covering Catholic engagement with climate change.
Talk about the scope of this,
I mean just for people to understand what this encyclical is the
number of languages.
It's been released and how large it is
and what it means for the Catholic community.
Well,
this is really the first 3rd world and cyclical
you know this is coming from a pope
who was shaped
in really significant ways by economic crisis during the Cold War
in Argentina
and
being in the middle of a battleground between
between the first and second world powers
it was drafted by
a cardinal from Ghana,
so this is coming from
the side of the world that we don't normally hear from
and
it's
very much in line with things that popes have been saying
for decades.
You know,
going back to Paul.
The 6th and John Polis second
Benedict,
the 16th,
so a lot of
the content is actually not so new for Catholics
but the emphasis and that
that
that that
that the language of climate debt
the language is the recognition that there is a
a divide here between the rich countries in the poor
and this is a cry
from
the developing world from
what has been
labeled the 3rd world
for change.
We're gonna break and when we come back,
we'll hear
the words of Cardinal
Peter Turks and himself of Ghana.