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that for us is a source of inspiration.

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We're joined now by 2 guests Naomi 
Klein is the author of this

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changes everything,

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capitalism versus the climate.

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She's been invited to 
speak at the Vatican,

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where she will speak at the people 
and planet first the imperative

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to change course conference

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she's joining us by Democracy 
Now video stream

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from Canada

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and here in New York.

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Nathan Schneider joins us columnist 
in America magazine a national

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Catholic weekly magazine published 
by the Cheshire.

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Thank you both

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Naomi let's begin with you

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respond to the Pope's encyclical

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on climate change and the environment.

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Yes,

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you know.

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Good morning.

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Iranian and

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and

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before I you know I would really like to

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express my deep deep sadness and outrage

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at The Hague crime

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in Charleston.

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This is

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a grief-stricken warning there 
were having this conversation.

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And it was an attack on a 
religious institution,

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which is also worth bearing

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as well as an attack

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on an African Americans.

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I

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you know I think that this you 
know in the quicker we cannot

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overstate the importance of it,

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the impact that it will have.

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It's hard to respond to a document 
that runs a close to 200 pages

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. When it was just released,

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you know I'm right forum

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few hours ago

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where are still

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dangerous

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to hear

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anybody

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is

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very clear.

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A

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door has just been opened and

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and

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I've got strong wind

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is blowing through

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where it

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is now possible to

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to

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say some very powerful truth about 
that the real implications

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of climate change,

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it really the root causes.

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And I think a lot of

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discussion about and

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cyclical

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in the US media cycle

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has

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focused and will continue to focus

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on the impact on Republican,

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and

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while it's not heroes,

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many of whom are Catholic,

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and it is certainly

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a challenge

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to that demographic.

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In the United States because the 
pope is coming out so clearly

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on the side of climate science 
and saying this is real,

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and this is happening,

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but I think it's too easy to say 
that this is just a challenge

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to

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Rick Santorum.

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But

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frankly,

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it is also a challenge to Hillary 
Clinton and Barack Obama

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large part of the green movement

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because

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it is a rebuke of a slow action

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very specifically

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says that

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climate denial is not just about denying 
the science is also about

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denying the urgency of the science.

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The document is

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very strong into journey

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delays half measures

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so-called market solutions it very

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specifically criticizes

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carbon markets a carbon offsetting

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an inadequate

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measure that will encourage speculation 
and rapid consumption

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everything.

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Probably the most significant parliament

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that the picture

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is the foreign grounding

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of

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the culture

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of frenetic

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consumption

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in the wealthy world among the wealthy,

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and this is a really significant 
because I think large parts

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of the climate change discussion

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trial they have it all ways and say no,

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we just will just have a green growth.

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Well just how

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well it will consume green products

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and

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you know this goes a lot deeper 
than that and says no.

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We need to get at the

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underlying there are used

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there are

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feeling this cultural frenetic 
conception that is entirely

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unsustainable.

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Now like you mentioned the fact that 
the pope calls repeatedly in

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the encyclical for radical change,

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I want to ask you about a specific

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citation from the leaked document

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that period earlier this week,

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he said.

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And in a corrupt

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culture

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we can't believe that laws will 
be enough to change behaviors

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that affect the environment,

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could you talk specifically about 
that about the laws that he may

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be referring to there.

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Well,

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I think that

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when he referring to corruption

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and I believe he referring 
to the influence of

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polling companies and multinational 
corporations which we also put

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out

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the encyclical

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and I think this is one of the most 
significant thing about the

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darkness.

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One might expect

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of a religious talking 
about climate change

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you erased

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difference right say

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we're,

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we're all in this together

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and certainly a possibility.

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Earth has our common home

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but it also recognizes

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explicitly the power dynamics

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in

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capitalism,

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which is to say that there 
are forces witnesses

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and they're

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actively working against

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change

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and

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and that is probably well he's 
referring to when he's talking

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about

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how there may be lots that 
the laws are enforced.

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And you know I do you know the 
laws are also inadequate,

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which is also addressed

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in the in the dark

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and it has a very specific

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calls for

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know I'm not aware of all 
the environmental law.

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I wish to pay the darkness.

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I haven't been able to look at,

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look at

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you know closely enough

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and another thing I have 
to say if you know I am.

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You know I

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have accepted and this invitation to

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seek a confidence

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which

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is a

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do you more deeply into the darkness.

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Because

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there is an understanding that 
it does take time to digest a

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document

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at this

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this multi-layered

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and it

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requires

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that kind of deeper

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and I think that this intervention

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5 months ahead of the UN climate

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conference in Paris

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is tremendously significant,

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it's going to push political leaders

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should go further.

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It's gonna be a tool for social movements,

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a lot of the language of the kind 
of justice movement has just

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been adopted by the pope and you 
you know phrases like ecological

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debt.

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The pub is talking about the death

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well world owes to the poor.

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This is a frightening

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that comes,

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originally

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from Ecuador

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from the

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against drilling in the Amazon

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and you know that he's he's.

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This is a phrase that was

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you never heard in mainstream circles.

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Until

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now,

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just now actually,

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I mean,

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I've never seen such a mainstream

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use of that term.

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So it is very important

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in that way,

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but I mean I have to say 
on a personal level,

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that

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as as thrilled as I am

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that the,

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that that that the Vatican 
is leading in this way,

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you know this pope is leading this way

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and bringing together the fight 
against poverty with

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the fight

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on climate change.

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That doesn't mean

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there's a

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complete merger between the crime 
and justice movement in the

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Vatican,

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you know,

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I mean obviously there are huge 
differences that remain over

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issues

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like

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is quality

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a reproductive rights and freedom

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to name just a few.

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Nathan Schneider your columnist

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with the Catholic weekly America

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you've been covering Catholic engagement 
with climate change.

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Talk about the scope of this,

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I mean just for people to understand 
what this encyclical is the

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number of languages.

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It's been released and how large it is

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and what it means for the 
Catholic community.

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Well,

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this is really the first 
3rd world and cyclical

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you know this is coming from a pope

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who was shaped

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in really significant ways by economic 
crisis during the Cold War

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in Argentina

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and

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being in the middle of 
a battleground between

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between the first and second world powers

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it was drafted by

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a cardinal from Ghana,

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so this is coming from

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the side of the world that we 
don't normally hear from

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and

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it's

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very much in line with things 
that popes have been saying

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for decades.

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You know,

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going back to Paul.

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The 6th and John Polis second

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Benedict,

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the 16th,

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so a lot of

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the content is actually not 
so new for Catholics

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but the emphasis and that

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that

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that that

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that the language of climate debt

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the language is the recognition 
that there is a

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a divide here between the rich 
countries in the poor

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and this is a cry

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from

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the developing world from

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what has been

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labeled the 3rd world

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for change.

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We're gonna break and when we come back,

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we'll hear

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the words of Cardinal

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Peter Turks and himself of Ghana.