WEBVTT 00:00:17.776 --> 00:00:23.259 [strumming music] 00:00:35.859 --> 00:00:37.890 - I like to make work out in the world. 00:00:37.890 --> 00:00:41.744 I find it endlessly fascinating. 00:00:41.744 --> 00:00:43.730 ♪ ♪ 00:00:48.950 --> 00:00:52.379 And I find that I could never invent 00:00:52.379 --> 00:00:56.183 the incredible things that happen. 00:00:56.183 --> 00:00:57.664 ♪ ♪ 00:00:57.664 --> 00:01:00.890 And I love going places or having experiences 00:01:00.890 --> 00:01:04.563 that are not completely within my control. 00:01:04.563 --> 00:01:14.775 ♪ ♪ 00:01:14.775 --> 00:01:15.390 Melissa? 00:01:15.390 --> 00:01:16.227 - Yeah. 00:01:16.492 --> 00:01:17.501 - I'm right here. 00:01:18.000 --> 00:01:18.500 - Feeling good? 00:01:18.983 --> 00:01:19.864 - Yeah, how are you? 00:01:19.864 --> 00:01:20.509 - Great. - Good. 00:01:20.509 --> 00:01:21.244 - Great. 00:01:22.543 --> 00:01:23.639 - Will you move the, um... 00:01:24.249 --> 00:01:26.289 Yeah, move that around a little bit. 00:01:26.289 --> 00:01:28.186 - Did you know this is Revlon? 00:01:28.186 --> 00:01:31.229 And this is what they actually wore in the '50s. 00:01:31.229 --> 00:01:32.289 It's called, um... 00:01:32.289 --> 00:01:33.289 - Hold on. 00:01:33.289 --> 00:01:34.289 Let me see. 00:01:34.289 --> 00:01:35.289 [grunts] 00:01:35.289 --> 00:01:36.289 Just a moment. 00:01:36.289 --> 00:01:38.590 I will figure this freaking thing out. 00:01:39.817 --> 00:01:41.217 Sorry, you were saying? 00:01:42.155 --> 00:01:45.260 - This is what the movie stars in the '50s actually did wear. 00:01:45.260 --> 00:01:47.825 It's called Cherries in the Snow by Revlon. 00:01:48.354 --> 00:01:49.137 And I wear this. 00:01:49.137 --> 00:01:50.173 I love it. 00:01:51.231 --> 00:01:52.173 They still make it. 00:01:52.173 --> 00:01:54.283 - [laughs] Let me see. 00:01:55.630 --> 00:01:59.079 I met Melissa when I was working in Hollywood, 00:01:59.079 --> 00:02:00.979 making photographs. 00:02:00.979 --> 00:02:04.049 She was or--and is a Marilyn Monroe impersonator. 00:02:05.492 --> 00:02:06.380 Where are you? 00:02:06.380 --> 00:02:07.380 Um... 00:02:10.074 --> 00:02:12.243 Okay, I'm gonna go under this way. 00:02:12.460 --> 00:02:15.409 We've known each other now for ten years. 00:02:15.409 --> 00:02:17.439 What era Marilyn are we doing? 00:02:17.439 --> 00:02:20.889 - We are doing, um, "Let's Make Love." 00:02:21.298 --> 00:02:24.218 - It's just been this improvisational 00:02:24.218 --> 00:02:26.267 whatever she wants to film. 00:02:26.267 --> 00:02:29.705 And we've become extremely close. 00:02:29.705 --> 00:02:32.670 You know, based around making something together. 00:02:32.670 --> 00:02:34.220 - Ooh, hold that mirror there. 00:02:34.220 --> 00:02:35.220 It looks good. 00:02:35.220 --> 00:02:37.300 I'm trying to get your... 00:02:37.300 --> 00:02:39.410 your eyes in here. 00:02:39.410 --> 00:02:41.060 Okay, so... 00:02:41.060 --> 00:02:42.710 [rousing music] 00:02:42.710 --> 00:02:45.840 So often the picture can be a gesture, 00:02:45.840 --> 00:02:47.110 in a way, of love. 00:02:47.110 --> 00:02:51.010 - Okay, okay, go a little to your left. 00:02:51.010 --> 00:02:54.645 But it's also about being seen. 00:02:59.287 --> 00:03:02.500 ♪ ♪ 00:03:08.706 --> 00:03:11.826 I'm from Arlington, Massachusetts, 00:03:11.826 --> 00:03:14.956 about 15 minutes outside of Boston. 00:03:16.230 --> 00:03:18.216 I think I was maybe eight years old 00:03:18.216 --> 00:03:21.149 and my grandmother gave me a camera. 00:03:23.241 --> 00:03:24.599 I immediately 00:03:24.599 --> 00:03:28.413 fell in love with observing the world. 00:03:28.629 --> 00:03:33.030 [melancholy electric guitar music] 00:03:33.789 --> 00:03:35.824 So, when I moved West, 00:03:35.824 --> 00:03:37.360 the first thing that struck me 00:03:37.360 --> 00:03:39.225 was just the quality of the light. 00:03:39.225 --> 00:03:42.000 ♪ ♪ 00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:43.799 And so I--so I wandered. 00:03:43.799 --> 00:03:48.651 I just wanted to walk around with a camera and kind of explore. 00:03:48.651 --> 00:03:56.602 ♪ ♪ 00:03:56.602 --> 00:04:00.140 I never wanted to just photograph people 00:04:00.140 --> 00:04:01.610 that were unaware. 00:04:01.610 --> 00:04:03.863 It has always very much been about 00:04:03.863 --> 00:04:06.236 my wanting to photograph people 00:04:06.236 --> 00:04:08.672 who are interested in being photographed. 00:04:08.672 --> 00:04:13.978 ♪ ♪ 00:04:13.978 --> 00:04:18.549 The light was bright and illuminating everything, 00:04:18.549 --> 00:04:22.049 including the incredible suffering here. 00:04:24.382 --> 00:04:25.796 ♪ ♪ 00:04:25.796 --> 00:04:27.930 You know, formally, I was interested in 00:04:27.930 --> 00:04:29.410 a degree of abstraction, 00:04:29.410 --> 00:04:33.210 of really stripping away all the extra stuff, 00:04:33.210 --> 00:04:37.412 and only leaving what was absolutely essential. 00:04:38.567 --> 00:04:42.550 ♪ ♪ 00:04:42.550 --> 00:04:45.780 And for me, they've become like a family album, 00:04:45.780 --> 00:04:47.705 remembering each one of these people, 00:04:47.705 --> 00:04:49.510 and what we talked about. 00:04:51.362 --> 00:04:55.750 I always imagine them as dissident soldiers, 00:04:55.750 --> 00:04:58.620 you know, where they demanded attention, 00:04:58.620 --> 00:05:03.975 where you could not avoid regarding them. 00:05:03.975 --> 00:05:08.752 ♪ ♪ 00:05:08.752 --> 00:05:18.645 [train horn blaring] 00:05:21.208 --> 00:05:26.852 [blade swishes] 00:05:27.382 --> 00:05:29.470 I think often that there might be a perception 00:05:29.470 --> 00:05:33.320 that the artist is the author, 00:05:33.320 --> 00:05:36.410 when in fact it is so much more collaborative, 00:05:36.410 --> 00:05:39.516 when in fact people have very strong ideas. 00:05:39.516 --> 00:05:44.584 [ambient music] 00:05:44.584 --> 00:05:46.979 And in particular when I when I met Nicole 00:05:46.979 --> 00:05:48.810 and started photographing Nicole, 00:05:48.810 --> 00:05:53.022 she was the most fun, the most challenging. 00:05:54.609 --> 00:05:56.643 ♪ ♪ 00:05:56.643 --> 00:05:59.350 At one point we'd been photographing for a while, 00:05:59.350 --> 00:06:01.490 we were very close, and she said, "You know, 00:06:01.490 --> 00:06:03.590 "I don't know, I just think your pictures 00:06:03.590 --> 00:06:06.330 "are a little weird, you know, a little boring. 00:06:06.330 --> 00:06:07.970 "Can we make some real pictures?" 00:06:07.970 --> 00:06:09.840 And, I said, "Well, yeah." 00:06:09.840 --> 00:06:12.251 ♪ ♪ 00:06:12.251 --> 00:06:13.900 And I said, "I'll just lock off the frame 00:06:13.900 --> 00:06:16.481 "and do whatever you want." 00:06:16.481 --> 00:06:22.845 ♪ ♪ 00:06:22.845 --> 00:06:26.430 She got naked and was kind of imitating 00:06:26.430 --> 00:06:28.188 these provocative poses, 00:06:28.188 --> 00:06:30.487 but then almost doing violence to them. 00:06:33.334 --> 00:06:35.960 There was, uh, a desire 00:06:35.960 --> 00:06:39.150 to have some of that glamour or, uh, sex appeal 00:06:39.150 --> 00:06:42.550 or whatever, and then she rejected it at the same time. 00:06:42.550 --> 00:06:43.789 And I thought, 00:06:43.789 --> 00:06:48.449 This is closer to what I feel as a woman. 00:06:48.449 --> 00:06:52.023 ♪ ♪ 00:06:52.023 --> 00:06:54.000 I mean we're talking about what's beautiful. 00:06:54.000 --> 00:06:55.160 That's beautiful. 00:06:55.160 --> 00:06:57.070 That is raw. 00:06:57.070 --> 00:06:59.507 That's generous. 00:06:59.507 --> 00:07:01.900 And her 00:07:01.900 --> 00:07:04.770 allowing herself to be vulnerable, 00:07:04.770 --> 00:07:06.543 is actually a strength. 00:07:13.092 --> 00:07:16.296 I'm always drawn to more difficult material. 00:07:16.296 --> 00:07:18.643 ♪ ♪ 00:07:18.643 --> 00:07:20.412 My best friend growing up, 00:07:20.412 --> 00:07:23.668 she ended up having a lot of problems 00:07:23.668 --> 00:07:27.070 with--with drug abuse and homelessness, and 00:07:27.575 --> 00:07:30.379 the last time I saw her alive 00:07:30.379 --> 00:07:31.730 she told me, 00:07:32.235 --> 00:07:35.539 "You know, people don't want to look at me. 00:07:35.539 --> 00:07:37.629 "I know I don't exist anymore." 00:07:37.629 --> 00:07:40.410 Um, that people avert their eyes. 00:07:40.410 --> 00:07:41.810 "I'm not even a person. 00:07:41.810 --> 00:07:43.051 I'm a junkie." 00:07:43.051 --> 00:07:46.300 ♪ ♪ 00:07:46.300 --> 00:07:48.884 And as time has gone on, 00:07:49.750 --> 00:07:51.289 the people that I've photographed, 00:07:51.289 --> 00:07:55.815 or the places I've gone have been completely overlooked. 00:07:55.815 --> 00:08:01.697 ♪ ♪ 00:08:01.697 --> 00:08:04.710 I'd been thinking for a long time about making a film, 00:08:04.710 --> 00:08:05.740 or how to make a film, 00:08:05.740 --> 00:08:09.750 because the circumstances of 00:08:09.750 --> 00:08:12.270 making my photographs are, in a way, 00:08:12.270 --> 00:08:14.370 almost more important than the pictures themselves, 00:08:14.370 --> 00:08:15.747 or as important. 00:08:16.247 --> 00:08:17.060 - What's in your hair? 00:08:17.060 --> 00:08:17.781 - In my hair? 00:08:17.805 --> 00:08:19.142 - I've been thinking a lot about, 00:08:19.142 --> 00:08:22.384 how can I represent or convey a person's energy, 00:08:22.384 --> 00:08:25.608 sense of humor, stories, what have you. 00:08:25.608 --> 00:08:27.546 ♪ ♪ 00:08:27.546 --> 00:08:29.749 There's a lot that a photograph can do. 00:08:30.615 --> 00:08:31.615 But it can't do that. 00:08:34.649 --> 00:08:37.797 - ♪ I've made some bad decisions ♪ 00:08:37.797 --> 00:08:39.687 ♪ In my life ♪ 00:08:40.096 --> 00:08:41.843 ♪ Oh, oh ♪ 00:08:42.670 --> 00:08:45.397 ♪ But it could get better ♪ 00:08:46.119 --> 00:08:47.543 - This place is, uh... 00:08:48.409 --> 00:08:50.170 It's really something else, man. 00:08:50.795 --> 00:08:52.760 - Well, The Nine's the name of a street. 00:08:52.760 --> 00:08:56.130 It's the local name for South Ninth Street 00:08:56.130 --> 00:08:59.548 in the Central Valley, Modesto, California. 00:09:01.761 --> 00:09:05.599 [ambient music] 00:09:05.599 --> 00:09:09.334 Everyone shares, [stammers] you know, a struggle. 00:09:09.334 --> 00:09:13.443 And there's a candor and openness about that struggle. 00:09:13.443 --> 00:09:14.590 [on TV] - It's plain old-fashioned. 00:09:14.590 --> 00:09:15.590 - Nobody says you have to like it. 00:09:15.590 --> 00:09:16.850 - That's the way it is. 00:09:16.850 --> 00:09:19.950 I met a woman named Vanessa on The Nine, 00:09:19.950 --> 00:09:21.200 and she introduced me to 00:09:21.200 --> 00:09:23.247 to some other people over time. 00:09:24.258 --> 00:09:26.370 I asked them if they might be interested 00:09:26.370 --> 00:09:27.659 in making a film together, 00:09:27.659 --> 00:09:31.030 and they were really enthusiastic, 00:09:31.030 --> 00:09:33.780 and I spent a long time hanging out, 00:09:33.780 --> 00:09:35.550 seeing what would happen, 00:09:35.550 --> 00:09:37.310 getting to know people really well, 00:09:37.310 --> 00:09:39.339 seeing what would unfold. 00:09:39.339 --> 00:09:44.352 [acoustic guitar music] 00:09:44.352 --> 00:09:47.320 I didn't want to make a movie that was sensationalizing 00:09:47.320 --> 00:09:50.490 lives that are already quite victimized, 00:09:50.490 --> 00:09:53.560 but instead showing how mundane, 00:09:53.560 --> 00:09:56.680 how ordinary, how in fact, recognizable, 00:09:56.680 --> 00:09:57.870 their lives were. 00:09:57.870 --> 00:10:01.275 ♪ ♪ 00:10:01.275 --> 00:10:05.609 - My mama used to say every hair on my head was counted. 00:10:06.000 --> 00:10:07.426 When I met Kiki, 00:10:08.003 --> 00:10:12.000 it was really vital that she tell her own story. 00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:12.869 ♪ ♪ 00:10:12.869 --> 00:10:14.380 - She said, "Don't be afraid. 00:10:16.353 --> 00:10:19.287 "You're worth more than hundreds of sparrows." 00:10:19.287 --> 00:10:23.029 ♪ ♪ 00:10:23.029 --> 00:10:24.471 I don't know, though. 00:10:26.587 --> 00:10:28.464 Even one sparrow is holy to me. 00:10:28.464 --> 00:10:32.759 ♪ ♪ 00:10:35.042 --> 00:10:36.042 Let's eat. 00:10:36.932 --> 00:10:37.840 Come on, babies. 00:10:37.840 --> 00:10:39.489 [chatter on television] 00:10:39.489 --> 00:10:41.589 - I'm not a journalist. 00:10:41.589 --> 00:10:44.733 I saw us as making a film together. 00:10:44.733 --> 00:10:49.840 [ambient music] 00:10:49.840 --> 00:10:51.910 I worked with her for five years. 00:10:51.910 --> 00:10:54.380 Spent so much time with Kiki. 00:10:55.294 --> 00:10:59.589 And at the same time, I am watching her 00:10:59.589 --> 00:11:01.038 hurting herself. 00:11:01.038 --> 00:11:03.260 And then I get to go home 00:11:03.260 --> 00:11:05.274 to my house in Berkeley. 00:11:05.274 --> 00:11:06.490 And what does that mean? 00:11:06.490 --> 00:11:08.396 Do I have the right to be there? 00:11:08.396 --> 00:11:12.475 ♪ ♪ 00:11:12.475 --> 00:11:15.903 It's--yeah, it's--it's difficult, 00:11:15.903 --> 00:11:18.000 and it raises a lot of questions. 00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:20.736 ♪ ♪ 00:11:20.736 --> 00:11:24.000 I struggle with wanting to do more. 00:11:24.625 --> 00:11:26.751 Probably feeling a bit guilty, 00:11:26.751 --> 00:11:29.312 and at the same time really valuing my friendships. 00:11:29.312 --> 00:11:31.929 ♪ ♪ 00:11:31.929 --> 00:11:33.860 I don't know, it'sit's you know, the fact is, 00:11:33.860 --> 00:11:36.260 it's complicated and it's not resolvable, 00:11:36.260 --> 00:11:37.760 and yet to avoid it 00:11:37.760 --> 00:11:39.940 is sort of becoming complicit 00:11:39.940 --> 00:11:44.543 in--in not seeing. 00:11:44.543 --> 00:11:50.230 [stirring music] 00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:07.394 - Is this where we went last time? 00:12:07.394 --> 00:12:10.519 - Um, yeah, this is the same route we went. 00:12:11.813 --> 00:12:14.902 I think what we should do is wait and get the sunset. 00:12:15.210 --> 00:12:18.000 It's rather short, the dance. 00:12:19.140 --> 00:12:22.751 Right now I'm kind of at the beginning again. 00:12:22.751 --> 00:12:24.485 ♪ ♪ 00:12:24.485 --> 00:12:27.242 And I have lots of ideas. 00:12:27.242 --> 00:12:29.276 ♪ ♪ 00:12:29.276 --> 00:12:31.209 I torture myself 'cause I feel like 00:12:31.209 --> 00:12:35.122 I never know where I'm going, but that's what's required. 00:12:35.122 --> 00:12:36.000 - This is cool. 00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:37.240 I really like all of this. 00:12:37.240 --> 00:12:41.488 ♪ ♪ 00:12:41.488 --> 00:12:44.226 - There are these repeated kinds of 00:12:44.226 --> 00:12:46.140 relationships that I have, 00:12:46.140 --> 00:12:48.610 which are about 00:12:48.610 --> 00:12:51.030 an unexpected collaboration. 00:12:52.545 --> 00:12:53.623 [whispers] Okay. 00:12:53.623 --> 00:12:56.155 - What--what what does this look like? 00:12:56.155 --> 00:12:58.551 ♪ ♪ 00:12:58.551 --> 00:13:00.000 - It's all beautiful. 00:13:01.949 --> 00:13:04.510 Probably the most important part for me 00:13:04.510 --> 00:13:07.000 is the leap of faith 00:13:07.000 --> 00:13:09.579 that we both take to trust one another. 00:13:09.579 --> 00:13:12.455 ♪ ♪ 00:13:12.455 --> 00:13:14.586 Life is a lot more interesting 00:13:14.586 --> 00:13:16.070 than kind of remaining in my studio 00:13:16.070 --> 00:13:17.810 or my little my little bubble. 00:13:19.470 --> 00:13:22.022 - Yeah, you know, should we do the thing with the spotlight? 00:13:22.022 --> 00:13:23.288 The--the car lights? 00:13:25.573 --> 00:13:28.785 ♪ ♪ 00:13:28.785 --> 00:13:31.514 I guess I wanna be shaken out of complacency. 00:13:32.404 --> 00:13:36.468 I think discomfort is a really important feeling, 00:13:36.468 --> 00:13:38.750 and it might help you recognize 00:13:38.750 --> 00:13:41.594 some of your own limitations in the way you see the world. 00:13:42.700 --> 00:13:44.566 Or just the fact of other possibilities. 00:13:44.566 --> 00:13:46.269 [laughs] I'm sorry. 00:13:46.269 --> 00:13:47.367 Hold on. 00:13:55.497 --> 00:13:58.156 ♪ ethereal ambient music ♪ 00:13:58.156 --> 00:14:02.008 To learn more about Art21 and our educational resources, 00:14:02.008 --> 00:14:06.606 please visit us onine at PBS.org/art21 00:14:11.176 --> 00:14:15.874 "Art in the Twenty-First Century" Season 9 is available on DVD. 00:14:16.139 --> 00:14:23.072 To order, visit shop.PBS.org or call 1-800-PLAY-PBS. 00:14:23.866 --> 00:14:28.223 This program is also availble for download on iTunes.