1 00:00:17,776 --> 00:00:23,259 [strumming music] 2 00:00:35,859 --> 00:00:37,890 - I like to make work out in the world. 3 00:00:37,890 --> 00:00:41,744 I find it endlessly fascinating. 4 00:00:41,744 --> 00:00:43,730 ♪ ♪ 5 00:00:48,950 --> 00:00:52,379 And I find that I could never invent 6 00:00:52,379 --> 00:00:56,183 the incredible things that happen. 7 00:00:56,183 --> 00:00:57,664 ♪ ♪ 8 00:00:57,664 --> 00:01:00,890 And I love going places or having experiences 9 00:01:00,890 --> 00:01:04,563 that are not completely within my control. 10 00:01:04,563 --> 00:01:14,775 ♪ ♪ 11 00:01:14,775 --> 00:01:15,390 Melissa? 12 00:01:15,390 --> 00:01:16,227 - Yeah. 13 00:01:16,492 --> 00:01:17,501 - I'm right here. 14 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:18,500 - Feeling good? 15 00:01:18,983 --> 00:01:19,864 - Yeah, how are you? 16 00:01:19,864 --> 00:01:20,509 - Great. - Good. 17 00:01:20,509 --> 00:01:21,244 - Great. 18 00:01:22,543 --> 00:01:23,639 - Will you move the, um... 19 00:01:24,249 --> 00:01:26,289 Yeah, move that around a little bit. 20 00:01:26,289 --> 00:01:28,186 - Did you know this is Revlon? 21 00:01:28,186 --> 00:01:31,229 And this is what they actually wore in the '50s. 22 00:01:31,229 --> 00:01:32,289 It's called, um... 23 00:01:32,289 --> 00:01:33,289 - Hold on. 24 00:01:33,289 --> 00:01:34,289 Let me see. 25 00:01:34,289 --> 00:01:35,289 [grunts] 26 00:01:35,289 --> 00:01:36,289 Just a moment. 27 00:01:36,289 --> 00:01:38,590 I will figure this freaking thing out. 28 00:01:39,817 --> 00:01:41,217 Sorry, you were saying? 29 00:01:42,155 --> 00:01:45,260 - This is what the movie stars in the '50s actually did wear. 30 00:01:45,260 --> 00:01:47,825 It's called Cherries in the Snow by Revlon. 31 00:01:48,354 --> 00:01:49,137 And I wear this. 32 00:01:49,137 --> 00:01:50,173 I love it. 33 00:01:51,231 --> 00:01:52,173 They still make it. 34 00:01:52,173 --> 00:01:54,283 - [laughs] Let me see. 35 00:01:55,630 --> 00:01:59,079 I met Melissa when I was working in Hollywood, 36 00:01:59,079 --> 00:02:00,979 making photographs. 37 00:02:00,979 --> 00:02:04,049 She was or--and is a Marilyn Monroe impersonator. 38 00:02:05,492 --> 00:02:06,380 Where are you? 39 00:02:06,380 --> 00:02:07,380 Um... 40 00:02:10,074 --> 00:02:12,243 Okay, I'm gonna go under this way. 41 00:02:12,460 --> 00:02:15,409 We've known each other now for ten years. 42 00:02:15,409 --> 00:02:17,439 What era Marilyn are we doing? 43 00:02:17,439 --> 00:02:20,889 - We are doing, um, "Let's Make Love." 44 00:02:21,298 --> 00:02:24,218 - It's just been this improvisational 45 00:02:24,218 --> 00:02:26,267 whatever she wants to film. 46 00:02:26,267 --> 00:02:29,705 And we've become extremely close. 47 00:02:29,705 --> 00:02:32,670 You know, based around making something together. 48 00:02:32,670 --> 00:02:34,220 - Ooh, hold that mirror there. 49 00:02:34,220 --> 00:02:35,220 It looks good. 50 00:02:35,220 --> 00:02:37,300 I'm trying to get your... 51 00:02:37,300 --> 00:02:39,410 your eyes in here. 52 00:02:39,410 --> 00:02:41,060 Okay, so... 53 00:02:41,060 --> 00:02:42,710 [rousing music] 54 00:02:42,710 --> 00:02:45,840 So often the picture can be a gesture, 55 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:47,110 in a way, of love. 56 00:02:47,110 --> 00:02:51,010 - Okay, okay, go a little to your left. 57 00:02:51,010 --> 00:02:54,645 But it's also about being seen. 58 00:02:59,287 --> 00:03:02,500 ♪ ♪ 59 00:03:08,706 --> 00:03:11,826 I'm from Arlington, Massachusetts, 60 00:03:11,826 --> 00:03:14,956 about 15 minutes outside of Boston. 61 00:03:16,230 --> 00:03:18,216 I think I was maybe eight years old 62 00:03:18,216 --> 00:03:21,149 and my grandmother gave me a camera. 63 00:03:23,241 --> 00:03:24,599 I immediately 64 00:03:24,599 --> 00:03:28,413 fell in love with observing the world. 65 00:03:28,629 --> 00:03:33,030 [melancholy electric guitar music] 66 00:03:33,789 --> 00:03:35,824 So, when I moved West, 67 00:03:35,824 --> 00:03:37,360 the first thing that struck me 68 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:39,225 was just the quality of the light. 69 00:03:39,225 --> 00:03:42,000 ♪ ♪ 70 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:43,799 And so I--so I wandered. 71 00:03:43,799 --> 00:03:48,651 I just wanted to walk around with a camera and kind of explore. 72 00:03:48,651 --> 00:03:56,602 ♪ ♪ 73 00:03:56,602 --> 00:04:00,140 I never wanted to just photograph people 74 00:04:00,140 --> 00:04:01,610 that were unaware. 75 00:04:01,610 --> 00:04:03,863 It has always very much been about 76 00:04:03,863 --> 00:04:06,236 my wanting to photograph people 77 00:04:06,236 --> 00:04:08,672 who are interested in being photographed. 78 00:04:08,672 --> 00:04:13,978 ♪ ♪ 79 00:04:13,978 --> 00:04:18,549 The light was bright and illuminating everything, 80 00:04:18,549 --> 00:04:22,049 including the incredible suffering here. 81 00:04:24,382 --> 00:04:25,796 ♪ ♪ 82 00:04:25,796 --> 00:04:27,930 You know, formally, I was interested in 83 00:04:27,930 --> 00:04:29,410 a degree of abstraction, 84 00:04:29,410 --> 00:04:33,210 of really stripping away all the extra stuff, 85 00:04:33,210 --> 00:04:37,412 and only leaving what was absolutely essential. 86 00:04:38,567 --> 00:04:42,550 ♪ ♪ 87 00:04:42,550 --> 00:04:45,780 And for me, they've become like a family album, 88 00:04:45,780 --> 00:04:47,705 remembering each one of these people, 89 00:04:47,705 --> 00:04:49,510 and what we talked about. 90 00:04:51,362 --> 00:04:55,750 I always imagine them as dissident soldiers, 91 00:04:55,750 --> 00:04:58,620 you know, where they demanded attention, 92 00:04:58,620 --> 00:05:03,975 where you could not avoid regarding them. 93 00:05:03,975 --> 00:05:08,752 ♪ ♪ 94 00:05:08,752 --> 00:05:18,645 [train horn blaring] 95 00:05:21,208 --> 00:05:26,852 [blade swishes] 96 00:05:27,382 --> 00:05:29,470 I think often that there might be a perception 97 00:05:29,470 --> 00:05:33,320 that the artist is the author, 98 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:36,410 when in fact it is so much more collaborative, 99 00:05:36,410 --> 00:05:39,516 when in fact people have very strong ideas. 100 00:05:39,516 --> 00:05:44,584 [ambient music] 101 00:05:44,584 --> 00:05:46,979 And in particular when I when I met Nicole 102 00:05:46,979 --> 00:05:48,810 and started photographing Nicole, 103 00:05:48,810 --> 00:05:53,022 she was the most fun, the most challenging. 104 00:05:54,609 --> 00:05:56,643 ♪ ♪ 105 00:05:56,643 --> 00:05:59,350 At one point we'd been photographing for a while, 106 00:05:59,350 --> 00:06:01,490 we were very close, and she said, "You know, 107 00:06:01,490 --> 00:06:03,590 "I don't know, I just think your pictures 108 00:06:03,590 --> 00:06:06,330 "are a little weird, you know, a little boring. 109 00:06:06,330 --> 00:06:07,970 "Can we make some real pictures?" 110 00:06:07,970 --> 00:06:09,840 And, I said, "Well, yeah." 111 00:06:09,840 --> 00:06:12,251 ♪ ♪ 112 00:06:12,251 --> 00:06:13,900 And I said, "I'll just lock off the frame 113 00:06:13,900 --> 00:06:16,481 "and do whatever you want." 114 00:06:16,481 --> 00:06:22,845 ♪ ♪ 115 00:06:22,845 --> 00:06:26,430 She got naked and was kind of imitating 116 00:06:26,430 --> 00:06:28,188 these provocative poses, 117 00:06:28,188 --> 00:06:30,487 but then almost doing violence to them. 118 00:06:33,334 --> 00:06:35,960 There was, uh, a desire 119 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:39,150 to have some of that glamour or, uh, sex appeal 120 00:06:39,150 --> 00:06:42,550 or whatever, and then she rejected it at the same time. 121 00:06:42,550 --> 00:06:43,789 And I thought, 122 00:06:43,789 --> 00:06:48,449 This is closer to what I feel as a woman. 123 00:06:48,449 --> 00:06:52,023 ♪ ♪ 124 00:06:52,023 --> 00:06:54,000 I mean we're talking about what's beautiful. 125 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:55,160 That's beautiful. 126 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:57,070 That is raw. 127 00:06:57,070 --> 00:06:59,507 That's generous. 128 00:06:59,507 --> 00:07:01,900 And her 129 00:07:01,900 --> 00:07:04,770 allowing herself to be vulnerable, 130 00:07:04,770 --> 00:07:06,543 is actually a strength. 131 00:07:13,092 --> 00:07:16,296 I'm always drawn to more difficult material. 132 00:07:16,296 --> 00:07:18,643 ♪ ♪ 133 00:07:18,643 --> 00:07:20,412 My best friend growing up, 134 00:07:20,412 --> 00:07:23,668 she ended up having a lot of problems 135 00:07:23,668 --> 00:07:27,070 with--with drug abuse and homelessness, and 136 00:07:27,575 --> 00:07:30,379 the last time I saw her alive 137 00:07:30,379 --> 00:07:31,730 she told me, 138 00:07:32,235 --> 00:07:35,539 "You know, people don't want to look at me. 139 00:07:35,539 --> 00:07:37,629 "I know I don't exist anymore." 140 00:07:37,629 --> 00:07:40,410 Um, that people avert their eyes. 141 00:07:40,410 --> 00:07:41,810 "I'm not even a person. 142 00:07:41,810 --> 00:07:43,051 I'm a junkie." 143 00:07:43,051 --> 00:07:46,300 ♪ ♪ 144 00:07:46,300 --> 00:07:48,884 And as time has gone on, 145 00:07:49,750 --> 00:07:51,289 the people that I've photographed, 146 00:07:51,289 --> 00:07:55,815 or the places I've gone have been completely overlooked. 147 00:07:55,815 --> 00:08:01,697 ♪ ♪ 148 00:08:01,697 --> 00:08:04,710 I'd been thinking for a long time about making a film, 149 00:08:04,710 --> 00:08:05,740 or how to make a film, 150 00:08:05,740 --> 00:08:09,750 because the circumstances of 151 00:08:09,750 --> 00:08:12,270 making my photographs are, in a way, 152 00:08:12,270 --> 00:08:14,370 almost more important than the pictures themselves, 153 00:08:14,370 --> 00:08:15,747 or as important. 154 00:08:16,247 --> 00:08:17,060 - What's in your hair? 155 00:08:17,060 --> 00:08:17,781 - In my hair? 156 00:08:17,805 --> 00:08:19,142 - I've been thinking a lot about, 157 00:08:19,142 --> 00:08:22,384 how can I represent or convey a person's energy, 158 00:08:22,384 --> 00:08:25,608 sense of humor, stories, what have you. 159 00:08:25,608 --> 00:08:27,546 ♪ ♪ 160 00:08:27,546 --> 00:08:29,749 There's a lot that a photograph can do. 161 00:08:30,615 --> 00:08:31,615 But it can't do that. 162 00:08:34,649 --> 00:08:37,797 - ♪ I've made some bad decisions ♪ 163 00:08:37,797 --> 00:08:39,687 ♪ In my life ♪ 164 00:08:40,096 --> 00:08:41,843 ♪ Oh, oh ♪ 165 00:08:42,670 --> 00:08:45,397 ♪ But it could get better ♪ 166 00:08:46,119 --> 00:08:47,543 - This place is, uh... 167 00:08:48,409 --> 00:08:50,170 It's really something else, man. 168 00:08:50,795 --> 00:08:52,760 - Well, The Nine's the name of a street. 169 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:56,130 It's the local name for South Ninth Street 170 00:08:56,130 --> 00:08:59,548 in the Central Valley, Modesto, California. 171 00:09:01,761 --> 00:09:05,599 [ambient music] 172 00:09:05,599 --> 00:09:09,334 Everyone shares, [stammers] you know, a struggle. 173 00:09:09,334 --> 00:09:13,443 And there's a candor and openness about that struggle. 174 00:09:13,443 --> 00:09:14,590 [on TV] - It's plain old-fashioned. 175 00:09:14,590 --> 00:09:15,590 - Nobody says you have to like it. 176 00:09:15,590 --> 00:09:16,850 - That's the way it is. 177 00:09:16,850 --> 00:09:19,950 I met a woman named Vanessa on The Nine, 178 00:09:19,950 --> 00:09:21,200 and she introduced me to 179 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:23,247 to some other people over time. 180 00:09:24,258 --> 00:09:26,370 I asked them if they might be interested 181 00:09:26,370 --> 00:09:27,659 in making a film together, 182 00:09:27,659 --> 00:09:31,030 and they were really enthusiastic, 183 00:09:31,030 --> 00:09:33,780 and I spent a long time hanging out, 184 00:09:33,780 --> 00:09:35,550 seeing what would happen, 185 00:09:35,550 --> 00:09:37,310 getting to know people really well, 186 00:09:37,310 --> 00:09:39,339 seeing what would unfold. 187 00:09:39,339 --> 00:09:44,352 [acoustic guitar music] 188 00:09:44,352 --> 00:09:47,320 I didn't want to make a movie that was sensationalizing 189 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:50,490 lives that are already quite victimized, 190 00:09:50,490 --> 00:09:53,560 but instead showing how mundane, 191 00:09:53,560 --> 00:09:56,680 how ordinary, how in fact, recognizable, 192 00:09:56,680 --> 00:09:57,870 their lives were. 193 00:09:57,870 --> 00:10:01,275 ♪ ♪ 194 00:10:01,275 --> 00:10:05,609 - My mama used to say every hair on my head was counted. 195 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:07,426 When I met Kiki, 196 00:10:08,003 --> 00:10:12,000 it was really vital that she tell her own story. 197 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:12,869 ♪ ♪ 198 00:10:12,869 --> 00:10:14,380 - She said, "Don't be afraid. 199 00:10:16,353 --> 00:10:19,287 "You're worth more than hundreds of sparrows." 200 00:10:19,287 --> 00:10:23,029 ♪ ♪ 201 00:10:23,029 --> 00:10:24,471 I don't know, though. 202 00:10:26,587 --> 00:10:28,464 Even one sparrow is holy to me. 203 00:10:28,464 --> 00:10:32,759 ♪ ♪ 204 00:10:35,042 --> 00:10:36,042 Let's eat. 205 00:10:36,932 --> 00:10:37,840 Come on, babies. 206 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:39,489 [chatter on television] 207 00:10:39,489 --> 00:10:41,589 - I'm not a journalist. 208 00:10:41,589 --> 00:10:44,733 I saw us as making a film together. 209 00:10:44,733 --> 00:10:49,840 [ambient music] 210 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:51,910 I worked with her for five years. 211 00:10:51,910 --> 00:10:54,380 Spent so much time with Kiki. 212 00:10:55,294 --> 00:10:59,589 And at the same time, I am watching her 213 00:10:59,589 --> 00:11:01,038 hurting herself. 214 00:11:01,038 --> 00:11:03,260 And then I get to go home 215 00:11:03,260 --> 00:11:05,274 to my house in Berkeley. 216 00:11:05,274 --> 00:11:06,490 And what does that mean? 217 00:11:06,490 --> 00:11:08,396 Do I have the right to be there? 218 00:11:08,396 --> 00:11:12,475 ♪ ♪ 219 00:11:12,475 --> 00:11:15,903 It's--yeah, it's--it's difficult, 220 00:11:15,903 --> 00:11:18,000 and it raises a lot of questions. 221 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,736 ♪ ♪ 222 00:11:20,736 --> 00:11:24,000 I struggle with wanting to do more. 223 00:11:24,625 --> 00:11:26,751 Probably feeling a bit guilty, 224 00:11:26,751 --> 00:11:29,312 and at the same time really valuing my friendships. 225 00:11:29,312 --> 00:11:31,929 ♪ ♪ 226 00:11:31,929 --> 00:11:33,860 I don't know, it'sit's you know, the fact is, 227 00:11:33,860 --> 00:11:36,260 it's complicated and it's not resolvable, 228 00:11:36,260 --> 00:11:37,760 and yet to avoid it 229 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:39,940 is sort of becoming complicit 230 00:11:39,940 --> 00:11:44,543 in--in not seeing. 231 00:11:44,543 --> 00:11:50,230 [stirring music] 232 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:07,394 - Is this where we went last time? 233 00:12:07,394 --> 00:12:10,519 - Um, yeah, this is the same route we went. 234 00:12:11,813 --> 00:12:14,902 I think what we should do is wait and get the sunset. 235 00:12:15,210 --> 00:12:18,000 It's rather short, the dance. 236 00:12:19,140 --> 00:12:22,751 Right now I'm kind of at the beginning again. 237 00:12:22,751 --> 00:12:24,485 ♪ ♪ 238 00:12:24,485 --> 00:12:27,242 And I have lots of ideas. 239 00:12:27,242 --> 00:12:29,276 ♪ ♪ 240 00:12:29,276 --> 00:12:31,209 I torture myself 'cause I feel like 241 00:12:31,209 --> 00:12:35,122 I never know where I'm going, but that's what's required. 242 00:12:35,122 --> 00:12:36,000 - This is cool. 243 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:37,240 I really like all of this. 244 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:41,488 ♪ ♪ 245 00:12:41,488 --> 00:12:44,226 - There are these repeated kinds of 246 00:12:44,226 --> 00:12:46,140 relationships that I have, 247 00:12:46,140 --> 00:12:48,610 which are about 248 00:12:48,610 --> 00:12:51,030 an unexpected collaboration. 249 00:12:52,545 --> 00:12:53,623 [whispers] Okay. 250 00:12:53,623 --> 00:12:56,155 - What--what what does this look like? 251 00:12:56,155 --> 00:12:58,551 ♪ ♪ 252 00:12:58,551 --> 00:13:00,000 - It's all beautiful. 253 00:13:01,949 --> 00:13:04,510 Probably the most important part for me 254 00:13:04,510 --> 00:13:07,000 is the leap of faith 255 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:09,579 that we both take to trust one another. 256 00:13:09,579 --> 00:13:12,455 ♪ ♪ 257 00:13:12,455 --> 00:13:14,586 Life is a lot more interesting 258 00:13:14,586 --> 00:13:16,070 than kind of remaining in my studio 259 00:13:16,070 --> 00:13:17,810 or my little my little bubble. 260 00:13:19,470 --> 00:13:22,022 - Yeah, you know, should we do the thing with the spotlight? 261 00:13:22,022 --> 00:13:23,288 The--the car lights? 262 00:13:25,573 --> 00:13:28,785 ♪ ♪ 263 00:13:28,785 --> 00:13:31,514 I guess I wanna be shaken out of complacency. 264 00:13:32,404 --> 00:13:36,468 I think discomfort is a really important feeling, 265 00:13:36,468 --> 00:13:38,750 and it might help you recognize 266 00:13:38,750 --> 00:13:41,594 some of your own limitations in the way you see the world. 267 00:13:42,700 --> 00:13:44,566 Or just the fact of other possibilities. 268 00:13:44,566 --> 00:13:46,269 [laughs] I'm sorry. 269 00:13:46,269 --> 00:13:47,367 Hold on. 270 00:13:55,497 --> 00:13:58,156 ♪ ethereal ambient music ♪ 271 00:13:58,156 --> 00:14:02,008 To learn more about Art21 and our educational resources, 272 00:14:02,008 --> 00:14:06,606 please visit us onine at PBS.org/art21 273 00:14:11,176 --> 00:14:15,874 "Art in the Twenty-First Century" Season 9 is available on DVD. 274 00:14:16,139 --> 00:14:23,072 To order, visit shop.PBS.org or call 1-800-PLAY-PBS. 275 00:14:23,866 --> 00:14:28,223 This program is also availble for download on iTunes.