Hello everyone. Nice to see you again.
It was really nice to meet you this morning Tim.
Veronica and I want to just make sure that we can make this meeting helpful
for all of you and to make sure you all got a chance to be heard.
And in order to do that, it can be helpful if we make sure that
everybody talks directly to each other
rather than about each other and and listens to what each person has said.
Is that OK?
It's fine.
Thank you.
Brilliant.
We just found that that helps the meetings to run more smoothly.
Yeah.
So we'll, we'll kind of step in.
We're not expecting you to kind of remember that, but we'll just try and step in
just to make sure everyone feels heard.
So it's one person speaking at a time.
You all have an equal chance to speak and trying to talk to each other about each other.
Yeah
So maybe we could just start by seeing how things would be for all of you.
Wanted to start with you too, because I know you've had a recent admission
You've had a corner where he's been.
Yeah.
Well, it's obviously good to not be in hospital.
But, yeah, I mean, I'm fine, really.
Just the medication.
Are you coping with that?
Well, just lots and lots of coffee, really energy drinks and going back to bed.
And did you have anything in particular that you wanted to to talk about today?
No, not really.
I mean, it's whatever these guys want to talk about.
They always seem to be at every single meeting and you know, they're just obsessed.
They're obsessed with what I'm doing and yeah, so if it reassures them and they can chill out of it, then that's all I know.
OK, so maybe I could just check, check with your mum and dad if they've got something that they would like to add to do to the agenda.
So, Mary, what would you like to talk about?
I'm slightly anxious about Tim being home and slightly anxious about how you, who's Tim being home?
And yeah, just, I want us to all be able to kind of get on and yeah, just Tim, you know, let's set some ground rules with you
for how you're going to live your life going forward so we don't get you back in hospital.
But also, what about boundaries and ground rules for me so that you're not always, you know, meddling?
We can talk about that.
So for you and Mary, it's more about trying to make things work better at home then.
And there's a fear there about maybe a future relapse.
Yeah.
But I like to look after him. I want, I want the best for him.
3:10 And sometimes he exists. But yeah.
So something about communication, working together? Yeah, Maybe. Yeah.
And Hugh, how about you? Have you got anything that you would like us to discuss today?
I think Mary's underestimating a hue about what he needs to be doing
And now that I'm retired, and I've said to you, Tim, I've got more time on my hands, and I want to focus on you not staying in your room all day smoking cannabis.
You think?
I don't know, I can smell the stuff upstairs.
So you know, your mum might sugar coat it, but the fact of the matter is you're out of hospital now.
Maybe we can come up with an agreement about putting some firm boundaries down, which I know you haven't had before.
And that was partly my fault because I was working full time.
I'm not. All he cares about is his hobbies.
He doesn't actually.
He's pretending he cares about a mum and would it be better if you've directed that to your dad?
OK, well, I just feel like you worked all your life, you really never saw you.
And now you've retired and all you care about is golf and swinging.
And then you come in this meeting and you say that just because I have the odd joint that it's all down to me.
But he has just come out of hospital. We need to look after him.
Yeah, I know that.
But, you know, it's our time now.
We've I've spent 45 years working to bring up a family.
We haven't been on a family holiday for 12 years because we're always coming back to rescue Tim.
And you know, I've never asked. I've never.
They do this all the time. They come and they throw it back in my face.
And I've never asked them to help me.
I like to help you. I like to help you.
I like to do things for you, but it says I used to do things for you when you were working.
Well, it's about small things. It doesn't mean that we have to.
You have to go out.
You know, we're talking about diet and exercise that can help you.
But you know, this energy drink things every day, this coffee, this cannabis use, you know, just cut it back at least a bit.
But those things are helping me. That is what is helping me have energy.
And if you're so obsessed with me getting a job and do it, following in your footsteps, that's the only way I'm going to get there.
I think you're a bit hard for me. I do think you're a bit hard for me.
We need to give him some time.
If we push him too hard, he could go back into it Seems like there's some kind of different views
about how best to help Tim and the context of everything that's happened.
And it seems like it's wanting the best for Tim, isn't it?
And and Tim, you feeling hurt as well in what you're experiencing, Want me to be a robot that doesn't embarrass them?
I can assure you that is not the case.
Tim. We've got three other children.
They're working full time.
They have to be up in the morning early and you're playing your music till 2:00 in the morning.
You think we can't hear you? And the smell of the cannabis coming through the windows.
You're up all the night, you're asleep all the day.
Just, you know, listen to what your mum and I want to do with you rather than me staying up all night.
Do you think I'm being unreasonable, You staying up all night?
Well, The thing is, is that what you guys, you don't realise how much pressure I'm under.
I've actually got a really important role and I know you don't believe it, but I have actually got, I am working actually.
I know the music seems loud to you, but that is the way that I communicate.
He's at home, we know where he is, so I don't mind that you sleep all day.
You're tired.
I don't mind that.
Do you want to say a bit more of it?
What?
What do you, what do you want to explain to parents?
Well, they're making out like I do nothing, but actually I do have a very important role that I have to do.
Can you direct that to you?
Then what? What is your role?
Yeah.
So I'm responsible. I'm actually responsible. You should be thanking me, not having a go at me.
If it wasn't for me, your other 3 golden children wouldn't even be able to get them for her.
What?
Yeah.
Actually, Paul was it there?
What does that feel like to hear?
Tim. Tim say those.
Well, they're not golden children, aren't they? I mean, we treat you all the same.
We love you all the same.
Why would they be golden children?
And what is your role, Tim?
What is this role that you're you're telling us about?
I get messages, I get messages.
I know you don't believe in it.
So I'm not even in about telling you because I think it's important that you do too
because I think your mum and dad will understand more if you can explain it to them.
OK, so it's and I didn't change this.
I didn't actually want this to happen, but I'm glad to actually now because I think, I think I'm doing a pretty good job of it.
But God has asked me to make sure that everybody gets to work on time, and that's why I have to stay at home all the time.
OK, that still doesn't change
I hear what you said some, but it still doesn't change the fact that you're at home nearly all the time.
Yes, because I'm there's going to be more instructions.
I've only this is only the, the, the very start of it.
I've got to be there and I've got to wait for these instructions.
What about if some days something really bad is going to happen?
What about some days, Tim, you and I can go out for a walk, even for 15 minutes
just to get out to give you some exercise because I've noticed you're carrying a bit of weight at the moment.
I just want to I just want to forward to can you can I just want to check what it was like to hear Tim explaining
explaining his perspective on his experiences at the moment before we go on to kind of think it was quite scary.
You know, I was quite scared to hear that's how he felt.
What feels scary about it?
Can you explain that he's getting unwell again if he thinks God's speaking to him?
I don't know, maybe it's a worry.
It's I can understand that's a worry.
I thought that's why you took the medication, the pills, so that you wouldn't feel, you wouldn't hear things and believe things like that.
I thought that the pills were a cure.
Yeah.
So it feels scary for your parents to, I guess, to those who are experienced.
Yeah.
I mean, I don't, I'm. actually, I don't even need the medication.
I'm just taking it too.
And you think I'm not doing anything to please you guys?
I'm taking it just to keep you guys happy, to keep you off my back.
Doesn't make any difference.
But how did it feel for you when you explained that to your parents?
Because you seemed quite reluctant initially and you didn't want to elaborate on it but hopes that feel?
No, I just think that they don't believe me and they just don't see it from my point of view.
They don't understand how important it is, this role that I've got and they just see me as some loser.
So I, I think that actually I'm kind of pleased that I've got, you know, that I've been chosen, but it's just these guys are getting in the way of it.
So I feel frustrated.
But can you understand what they're expressing when they hear that?
Because you are experiencing that, but they're not.
What I'm trying to say is the reaction from your your dad in particular seems to upset you quite a lot.
Can you understand why he's doing this?
He just all he cares about is what people think other people think.
And what do you think is intentions or of them just to preserve his own ego.
Sounds like there's different perspective on on what's going on.
And it's important for you to explain that experience that you're having to that's important for you, you to to kind of find solutions, isn't it?
And to get moving the way forward.
So that it sounds like it's the worry for you, Mary, about him getting on my game, if that's happening.
It is, yeah
I mean, sometimes I think your dad's right. And other times I've just I'm just worried that you're going to relapse.
And when you talk like this, it feels like you're not in a good place, although you think you're in a good place.
Absolutely fine.
If anything, I'm better than before.
It's just kind of given me a really new perspective.
When you say relapse, do you mean to going back to hospital?
Yeah, Yeah.
That's what I'm worried about.
And I know we would struggle to have you at home and if you were really unwell, so that's the best place for you.
But I don't want you to go back there.
I want you to continue to take your medication.
I want you to get out and do things like with your dad as well, but I like it when you're at home as well because I know where you are.
I can keep you safe.
This is what I'm talking about.
Well, so thank you for telling me about the way you feel, but I just want to be clear that the cannabis use can't go on in our home.
As much as your mum wants you to be home at any cost, I'm not prepared to have you at home at any cost.
So this cannabis use has to be replaced by something else, and I want that to be exercise or thinking about other things to do outside the home.
You said you like drums before you like music.
What about getting out instead of staying at home all the time?
I think it's really, really helpful that we've heard the perspectives and although they seem quite different, there are some things that you have in common, I think.
And you clearly want things to be different, don't you?
This is not how you think what things ought to be.
And I just wondered, is there anything that you can point to at the moment that's going well?
We're all in the house together.
OK.
Yeah, we do eat.
We have an evening meal.
That's and I like it when you're having an evening meal with us.
It'd be like you being mad too, right.
OK.
So you're able to have meals together?
Yeah.
Everything else.
So you're back home?
Obviously.
Yeah.
Not being in the hospital.
It feels good.
Yeah.
Are there things that you're doing together apart from eating meals?
Do you tend to do your own things?
Well, I tend to look after the house, so yeah, Yeah.
In and see Tim in his room.
I'll bring in his laundry and we have a little chat, don't we, son?
Yeah, we did a couple of crosswords, didn't we?
We did.
So is there anything else you're doing there that you do for yourself?
The house works fine, but it's not going to keep it going, is it?
No, but you know.
Yeah.
No, not really.
No.
You haven't got much time on your hands at the moment.
No.
I just feel like my whole existence is Tim.
I'm just just worried that.
So you don't have much time together to do.
Oh, we have, I think.
I think Mary's underestimating the impact of having a son who's unwell as having on the family.
I've just retired now, I'm 65 years old.
I know you're a lot younger than me, but we haven't been on a holiday since the children were little before Tim was unwell.
And I want to spend the last years of my life, at least with my wife sometime having a life instead of cleaning up the mess.
Sometimes Tim visit from this house.
I want it to change.
I can I can hear that's really important to you with the with the situation that's yeah affecting all of you.
Just the wanting things to change and the worry about it, Mary.
And they're just wanting to get your your perspective across, Tim, about what you're experiencing. 16:38 So we're not going to get to solutions on that today, but we we kind of need to end this meeting. 16:43 But I just wanted to check how you found meeting today. 16:47 How have you found, how have you found meeting with us? 16:50 How have you found us? 16:52 What's, what's it been like to talk these things through? 16:54 It's nice to have had a space and some time.
So we're not going to get to solutions on that today, but we we kind of need to end this meeting.
But I just wanted to check how you found meeting today.
How have you found, how have you found meeting with us?
How have you found us?
What's, what's it been like to talk these things through?
It's nice to have had a space and some time.
Yeah, to just sit and like we have meals together, but we don't tend to talk this candidly.
So it's nice to be able to actually hear what Hugh really thinks about how I mollycoddle Tim, I suppose.
And it's just a realisation, I suppose, and how Tim feels.
Maybe I'm a little bit overbearing.
So how about you, Tim?
How have you found it?
I haven't, I haven't found it easily, but I think I can see that maybe it's a good thing.
I don't want them to be unhappy and don't want them to be worried about me.
So if this helps, I'm pleased we have the meeting, as difficult as it is.
And I just want Tim to know that if you want to go out for a walk with your dad, I've got the time now to do that when maybe I didn't have the time when he was young. So thank you, thank you, thank you for meeting.