WEBVTT 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Hello everyone. Nice to see you again. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 It was really nice to meet you this morning Tim. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Veronica and I want to just make sure that we can make this meeting helpful 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 for all of you and to make sure you all got a chance to be heard. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And in order to do that, it can be helpful if we make sure that 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 everybody talks directly to each other 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 rather than about each other and and listens to what each person has said. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Is that OK? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 It's fine. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Thank you. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Brilliant. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 We just found that that helps the meetings to run more smoothly. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Yeah. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So we'll, we'll kind of step in. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 We're not expecting you to kind of remember that, but we'll just try and step in 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 just to make sure everyone feels heard. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So it's one person speaking at a time. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 You all have an equal chance to speak and trying to talk to each other about each other. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Yeah 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So maybe we could just start by seeing how things would be for all of you. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Wanted to start with you too, because I know you've had a recent admission 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 You've had a corner where he's been. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Yeah. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Well, it's obviously good to not be in hospital. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 But, yeah, I mean, I'm fine, really. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Just the medication. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Are you coping with that? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Well, just lots and lots of coffee, really energy drinks and going back to bed. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And did you have anything in particular that you wanted to to talk about today? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 No, not really. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I mean, it's whatever these guys want to talk about. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 They always seem to be at every single meeting and you know, they're just obsessed. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 They're obsessed with what I'm doing and yeah, so if it reassures them and they can chill out of it, then that's all I know. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 OK, so maybe I could just check, check with your mum and dad if they've got something that they would like to add to do to the agenda. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So, Mary, what would you like to talk about? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I'm slightly anxious about Tim being home and slightly anxious about how you, who's Tim being home? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And yeah, just, I want us to all be able to kind of get on and yeah, just Tim, you know, let's set some ground rules with you 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 for how you're going to live your life going forward so we don't get you back in hospital. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 But also, what about boundaries and ground rules for me so that you're not always, you know, meddling? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 We can talk about that. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So for you and Mary, it's more about trying to make things work better at home then. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And there's a fear there about maybe a future relapse. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Yeah. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Yeah. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 But I like to look after him. I want, I want the best for him. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 3:10 And sometimes he exists. But yeah. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So something about communication, working together? Yeah, Maybe. Yeah. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And Hugh, how about you? Have you got anything that you would like us to discuss today? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I think Mary's underestimating a hue about what he needs to be doing 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And now that I'm retired, and I've said to you, Tim, I've got more time on my hands, and I want to focus on you not staying in your room all day smoking cannabis. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 You think? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I don't know, I can smell the stuff upstairs. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So you know, your mum might sugar coat it, but the fact of the matter is you're out of hospital now. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Maybe we can come up with an agreement about putting some firm boundaries down, which I know you haven't had before. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And that was partly my fault because I was working full time. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I'm not. All he cares about is his hobbies. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 He doesn't actually. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 He's pretending he cares about a mum and would it be better if you've directed that to your dad? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 OK, well, I just feel like you worked all your life, you really never saw you. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And now you've retired and all you care about is golf and swinging. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And then you come in this meeting and you say that just because I have the odd joint that it's all down to me. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 But he has just come out of hospital. We need to look after him. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Yeah, I know that. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 But, you know, it's our time now. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 We've I've spent 45 years working to bring up a family. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 We haven't been on a family holiday for 12 years because we're always coming back to rescue Tim. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And you know, I've never asked. I've never. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 They do this all the time. They come and they throw it back in my face. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And I've never asked them to help me. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I like to help you. I like to help you. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I like to do things for you, but it says I used to do things for you when you were working. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Well, it's about small things. It doesn't mean that we have to. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 You have to go out. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 You know, we're talking about diet and exercise that can help you. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 But you know, this energy drink things every day, this coffee, this cannabis use, you know, just cut it back at least a bit. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 But those things are helping me. That is what is helping me have energy. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And if you're so obsessed with me getting a job and do it, following in your footsteps, that's the only way I'm going to get there. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I think you're a bit hard for me. I do think you're a bit hard for me. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 We need to give him some time. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 If we push him too hard, he could go back into it Seems like there's some kind of different views 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 about how best to help Tim and the context of everything that's happened. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And it seems like it's wanting the best for Tim, isn't it? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And and Tim, you feeling hurt as well in what you're experiencing, Want me to be a robot that doesn't embarrass them? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I can assure you that is not the case. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Tim. We've got three other children. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 They're working full time. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 They have to be up in the morning early and you're playing your music till 2:00 in the morning. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 You think we can't hear you? And the smell of the cannabis coming through the windows. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 You're up all the night, you're asleep all the day. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Just, you know, listen to what your mum and I want to do with you rather than me staying up all night. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Do you think I'm being unreasonable, You staying up all night? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Well, The thing is, is that what you guys, you don't realise how much pressure I'm under. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I've actually got a really important role and I know you don't believe it, but I have actually got, I am working actually. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I know the music seems loud to you, but that is the way that I communicate. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 He's at home, we know where he is, so I don't mind that you sleep all day. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 You're tired. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I don't mind that. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Do you want to say a bit more of it? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 What? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 What do you, what do you want to explain to parents? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Well, they're making out like I do nothing, but actually I do have a very important role that I have to do. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Can you direct that to you? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Then what? What is your role? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Yeah. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So I'm responsible. I'm actually responsible. You should be thanking me, not having a go at me. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 If it wasn't for me, your other 3 golden children wouldn't even be able to get them for her. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 What? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Yeah. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Actually, Paul was it there? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 What does that feel like to hear? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Tim. Tim say those. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Well, they're not golden children, aren't they? I mean, we treat you all the same. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 We love you all the same. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Why would they be golden children? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And what is your role, Tim? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 What is this role that you're you're telling us about? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I get messages, I get messages. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I know you don't believe in it. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So I'm not even in about telling you because I think it's important that you do too 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 because I think your mum and dad will understand more if you can explain it to them. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 OK, so it's and I didn't change this. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I didn't actually want this to happen, but I'm glad to actually now because I think, I think I'm doing a pretty good job of it. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 But God has asked me to make sure that everybody gets to work on time, and that's why I have to stay at home all the time. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 OK, that still doesn't change 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I hear what you said some, but it still doesn't change the fact that you're at home nearly all the time. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Yes, because I'm there's going to be more instructions. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I've only this is only the, the, the very start of it. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I've got to be there and I've got to wait for these instructions. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 What about if some days something really bad is going to happen? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 What about some days, Tim, you and I can go out for a walk, even for 15 minutes 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 just to get out to give you some exercise because I've noticed you're carrying a bit of weight at the moment. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I just want to I just want to forward to can you can I just want to check what it was like to hear Tim explaining 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 explaining his perspective on his experiences at the moment before we go on to kind of think it was quite scary. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 You know, I was quite scared to hear that's how he felt. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 What feels scary about it? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Can you explain that he's getting unwell again if he thinks God's speaking to him? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I don't know, maybe it's a worry. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 It's I can understand that's a worry. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I thought that's why you took the medication, the pills, so that you wouldn't feel, you wouldn't hear things and believe things like that. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I thought that the pills were a cure. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Yeah. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So it feels scary for your parents to, I guess, to those who are experienced. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Yeah. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I mean, I don't, I'm. actually, I don't even need the medication. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I'm just taking it too. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And you think I'm not doing anything to please you guys? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I'm taking it just to keep you guys happy, to keep you off my back. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Doesn't make any difference. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 But how did it feel for you when you explained that to your parents? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Because you seemed quite reluctant initially and you didn't want to elaborate on it but hopes that feel? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 No, I just think that they don't believe me and they just don't see it from my point of view. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 They don't understand how important it is, this role that I've got and they just see me as some loser. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So I, I think that actually I'm kind of pleased that I've got, you know, that I've been chosen, but it's just these guys are getting in the way of it. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So I feel frustrated. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 But can you understand what they're expressing when they hear that? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Because you are experiencing that, but they're not. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 What I'm trying to say is the reaction from your your dad in particular seems to upset you quite a lot. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Can you understand why he's doing this? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 He just all he cares about is what people think other people think. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And what do you think is intentions or of them just to preserve his own ego. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Sounds like there's different perspective on on what's going on. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And it's important for you to explain that experience that you're having to that's important for you, you to to kind of find solutions, isn't it? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And to get moving the way forward. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So that it sounds like it's the worry for you, Mary, about him getting on my game, if that's happening. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 It is, yeah 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I mean, sometimes I think your dad's right. And other times I've just I'm just worried that you're going to relapse. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And when you talk like this, it feels like you're not in a good place, although you think you're in a good place. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Absolutely fine. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 If anything, I'm better than before. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 It's just kind of given me a really new perspective. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 When you say relapse, do you mean to going back to hospital? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Yeah, Yeah. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 That's what I'm worried about. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And I know we would struggle to have you at home and if you were really unwell, so that's the best place for you. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 But I don't want you to go back there. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I want you to continue to take your medication. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I want you to get out and do things like with your dad as well, but I like it when you're at home as well because I know where you are. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I can keep you safe. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 This is what I'm talking about. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Well, so thank you for telling me about the way you feel, but I just want to be clear that the cannabis use can't go on in our home. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 As much as your mum wants you to be home at any cost, I'm not prepared to have you at home at any cost. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So this cannabis use has to be replaced by something else, and I want that to be exercise or thinking about other things to do outside the home. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 You said you like drums before you like music. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 What about getting out instead of staying at home all the time? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I think it's really, really helpful that we've heard the perspectives and although they seem quite different, there are some things that you have in common, I think. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And you clearly want things to be different, don't you? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 This is not how you think what things ought to be. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And I just wondered, is there anything that you can point to at the moment that's going well? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 We're all in the house together. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 OK. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Yeah, we do eat. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 We have an evening meal. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 That's and I like it when you're having an evening meal with us. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 It'd be like you being mad too, right. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 OK. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So you're able to have meals together? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Yeah. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Yeah. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Everything else. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So you're back home? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Obviously. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Yeah. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Not being in the hospital. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 It feels good. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Yeah. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Are there things that you're doing together apart from eating meals? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Do you tend to do your own things? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Well, I tend to look after the house, so yeah, Yeah. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 In and see Tim in his room. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I'll bring in his laundry and we have a little chat, don't we, son? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Yeah, we did a couple of crosswords, didn't we? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 We did. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So is there anything else you're doing there that you do for yourself? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 The house works fine, but it's not going to keep it going, is it? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 No, but you know. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Yeah. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 No, not really. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 No. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 No. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 You haven't got much time on your hands at the moment. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 No. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I just feel like my whole existence is Tim. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I'm just just worried that. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So you don't have much time together to do. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Oh, we have, I think. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I think Mary's underestimating the impact of having a son who's unwell as having on the family. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I've just retired now, I'm 65 years old. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I know you're a lot younger than me, but we haven't been on a holiday since the children were little before Tim was unwell. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And I want to spend the last years of my life, at least with my wife sometime having a life instead of cleaning up the mess. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Sometimes Tim visit from this house. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I want it to change. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I can I can hear that's really important to you with the with the situation that's yeah affecting all of you. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Just the wanting things to change and the worry about it, Mary. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And they're just wanting to get your your perspective across, Tim, about what you're experiencing. 16:38 So we're not going to get to solutions on that today, but we we kind of need to end this meeting. 16:43 But I just wanted to check how you found meeting today. 16:47 How have you found, how have you found meeting with us? 16:50 How have you found us? 16:52 What's, what's it been like to talk these things through? 16:54 It's nice to have had a space and some time. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So we're not going to get to solutions on that today, but we we kind of need to end this meeting. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 But I just wanted to check how you found meeting today. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 How have you found, how have you found meeting with us? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 How have you found us? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 What's, what's it been like to talk these things through? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 It's nice to have had a space and some time. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Yeah, to just sit and like we have meals together, but we don't tend to talk this candidly. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So it's nice to be able to actually hear what Hugh really thinks about how I mollycoddle Tim, I suppose. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And it's just a realisation, I suppose, and how Tim feels. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Maybe I'm a little bit overbearing. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So how about you, Tim? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 How have you found it? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I haven't, I haven't found it easily, but I think I can see that maybe it's a good thing. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I don't want them to be unhappy and don't want them to be worried about me. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So if this helps, I'm pleased we have the meeting, as difficult as it is. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And I just want Tim to know that if you want to go out for a walk with your dad, I've got the time now to do that when maybe I didn't have the time when he was young. So thank you, thank you, thank you for meeting.