1
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Hello everyone. Nice to see you again.

2
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It was really nice to meet you this morning Tim.

3
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Veronica and I want to just make sure that we can make this meeting helpful

4
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for all of you and to make sure you all got a chance to be heard.

5
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And in order to do that, it can be helpful if we make sure that

6
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everybody talks directly to each other

7
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rather than about each other and and listens to what each person has said.

8
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Is that OK?

9
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It's fine.

10
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Thank you.

11
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Brilliant.

12
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We just found that that helps the meetings to run more smoothly.

13
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Yeah.

14
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So we'll, we'll kind of step in.

15
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We're not expecting you to kind of remember that, but we'll just try and step in

16
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just to make sure everyone feels heard.

17
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So it's one person speaking at a time.

18
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You all have an equal chance to speak and trying to talk to each other about each other.

19
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Yeah

20
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So maybe we could just start by seeing how things would be for all of you.

21
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Wanted to start with you too, because I know you've had a recent admission

22
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You've had a corner where he's been.

23
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Yeah.

24
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Well, it's obviously good to not be in hospital.

25
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But, yeah, I mean, I'm fine, really.

26
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Just the medication.

27
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Are you coping with that?

28
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Well, just lots and lots of coffee, really energy drinks and going back to bed.

29
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And did you have anything in particular that you wanted to to talk about today?

30
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No, not really.

31
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I mean, it's whatever these guys want to talk about.

32
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They always seem to be at every single meeting and you know, they're just obsessed.

33
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They're obsessed with what I'm doing and yeah, so if it reassures them and they can chill out of it, then that's all I know.

34
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OK, so maybe I could just check, check with your mum and dad if they've got something that they would like to add to do to the agenda.

35
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So, Mary, what would you like to talk about?

36
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I'm slightly anxious about Tim being home and slightly anxious about how you, who's Tim being home?

37
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And yeah, just, I want us to all be able to kind of get on and yeah, just Tim, you know, let's set some ground rules with you

38
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for how you're going to live your life going forward so we don't get you back in hospital.

39
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But also, what about boundaries and ground rules for me so that you're not always, you know, meddling?

40
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We can talk about that.

41
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So for you and Mary, it's more about trying to make things work better at home then.

42
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And there's a fear there about maybe a future relapse.

43
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Yeah.

44
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Yeah.

45
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But I like to look after him. I want, I want the best for him.

46
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3:10
And sometimes he exists. But yeah.

47
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So something about communication, working together? Yeah, Maybe.
Yeah.

48
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And Hugh, how about you? Have you got anything that you would like us to discuss today?

49
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I think Mary's underestimating a hue about what he needs to be doing

50
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And now that I'm retired, and I've said to you, Tim, I've got more time on my hands, and I want to focus on you not staying in your room all day smoking cannabis.

51
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You think?

52
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I don't know, I can smell the stuff upstairs.

53
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So you know, your mum might sugar coat it, but the fact of the matter is you're out of hospital now.

54
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Maybe we can come up with an agreement about putting some firm boundaries down, which I know you haven't had before.

55
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And that was partly my fault because I was working full time.

56
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I'm not. All he cares about is his hobbies.

57
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He doesn't actually.

58
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He's pretending he cares about a mum and would it be better if you've directed that to your dad?

59
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OK, well, I just feel like you worked all your life, you really never saw you.

60
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And now you've retired and all you care about is golf and swinging.

61
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And then you come in this meeting and you say that just because I have the odd joint that it's all down to me.

62
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But he has just come out of hospital. We need to look after him.

63
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Yeah, I know that.

64
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But, you know, it's our time now.

65
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We've I've spent 45 years working to bring up a family.

66
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We haven't been on a family holiday for 12 years because we're always coming back to rescue Tim.

67
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And you know, I've never asked. I've never.

68
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They do this all the time. They come and they throw it back in my face.

69
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And I've never asked them to help me.

70
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I like to help you. I like to help you.

71
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I like to do things for you, but it says I used to do things for you when you were working.

72
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Well, it's about small things. It doesn't mean that we have to.

73
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You have to go out.

74
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You know, we're talking about diet and exercise that can help you.

75
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But you know, this energy drink things every day, this coffee, this cannabis use, you know, just cut it back at least a bit.

76
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But those things are helping me. That is what is helping me have energy.

77
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And if you're so obsessed with me getting a job and do it, following in your footsteps, that's the only way I'm going to get there.

78
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I think you're a bit hard for me. I do think you're a bit hard for me.

79
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We need to give him some time.

80
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If we push him too hard, he could go back into it Seems like there's some kind of different views

81
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about how best to help Tim and the context of everything that's happened.

82
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And it seems like it's wanting the best for Tim, isn't it?

83
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And and Tim, you feeling hurt as well in what you're experiencing, Want me to be a robot that doesn't embarrass them?

84
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I can assure you that is not the case.

85
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Tim. We've got three other children.

86
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They're working full time.

87
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They have to be up in the morning early and you're playing your music till 2:00 in the morning.

88
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You think we can't hear you? And the smell of the cannabis coming through the windows.

89
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You're up all the night, you're asleep all the day.

90
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Just, you know, listen to what your mum and I want to do with you rather than me staying up all night.

91
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Do you think I'm being unreasonable, You staying up all night?

92
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Well, The thing is, is that what you guys, you don't realise how much pressure I'm under.

93
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I've actually got a really important role and I know you don't believe it, but I have actually got, I am working actually.

94
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I know the music seems loud to you, but that is the way that I communicate.

95
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He's at home, we know where he is, so I don't mind that you sleep all day.

96
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You're tired.

97
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I don't mind that.

98
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Do you want to say a bit more of it?

99
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What?

100
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What do you, what do you want to explain to parents?

101
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Well, they're making out like I do nothing, but actually I do have a very important role that I have to do.

102
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Can you direct that to you?

103
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Then what? What is your role?

104
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Yeah.

105
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So I'm responsible. I'm actually responsible. You should be thanking me, not having a go at me.

106
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If it wasn't for me, your other 3 golden children wouldn't even be able to get them for her.

107
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What?

108
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Yeah.

109
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Actually, Paul was it there?

110
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What does that feel like to hear?

111
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Tim. Tim say those.

112
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Well, they're not golden children, aren't they? I mean, we treat you all the same.

113
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We love you all the same.

114
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Why would they be golden children?

115
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And what is your role, Tim?

116
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What is this role that you're you're telling us about?

117
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I get messages, I get messages.

118
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I know you don't believe in it.

119
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So I'm not even in about telling you because I think it's important that you do too

120
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because I think your mum and dad will understand more if you can explain it to them.

121
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OK, so it's and I didn't change this.

122
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I didn't actually want this to happen, but I'm glad to actually now because I think, I think I'm doing a pretty good job of it.

123
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But God has asked me to make sure that everybody gets to work on time, and that's why I have to stay at home all the time.

124
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OK, that still doesn't change

125
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I hear what you said some, but it still doesn't change the fact that you're at home nearly all the time.

126
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Yes, because I'm there's going to be more instructions.

127
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I've only this is only the, the, the very start of it.

128
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I've got to be there and I've got to wait for these instructions.

129
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What about if some days something really bad is going to happen?

130
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What about some days, Tim, you and I can go out for a walk, even for 15 minutes

131
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just to get out to give you some exercise because I've noticed you're carrying a bit of weight at the moment.

132
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I just want to I just want to forward to can you can I just want to check what it was like to hear Tim explaining

133
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explaining his perspective on his experiences at the moment before we go on to kind of think it was quite scary.

134
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You know, I was quite scared to hear that's how he felt.

135
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What feels scary about it?

136
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Can you explain that he's getting unwell again if he thinks God's speaking to him?

137
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I don't know, maybe it's a worry.

138
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It's I can understand that's a worry.

139
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I thought that's why you took the medication, the pills, so that you wouldn't feel, you wouldn't hear things and believe things like that.

140
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I thought that the pills were a cure.

141
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Yeah.

142
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So it feels scary for your parents to, I guess, to those who are experienced.

143
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Yeah.

144
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I mean, I don't, I'm. actually, I don't even need the medication.

145
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I'm just taking it too.

146
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And you think I'm not doing anything to please you guys?

147
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I'm taking it just to keep you guys happy, to keep you off my back.

148
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Doesn't make any difference.

149
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But how did it feel for you when you explained that to your parents?

150
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Because you seemed quite reluctant initially and you didn't want to elaborate on it but hopes that feel?

151
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No, I just think that they don't believe me and they just don't see it from my point of view.

152
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They don't understand how important it is, this role that I've got and they just see me as some loser.

153
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So I, I think that actually I'm kind of pleased that I've got, you know, that I've been chosen, but it's just these guys are getting in the way of it.

154
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So I feel frustrated.

155
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But can you understand what they're expressing when they hear that?

156
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Because you are experiencing that, but they're not.

157
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What I'm trying to say is the reaction from your your dad in particular seems to upset you quite a lot.

158
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Can you understand why he's doing this?

159
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He just all he cares about is what people think other people think.

160
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And what do you think is intentions or of them just to preserve his own ego.

161
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Sounds like there's different perspective on on what's going on.

162
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And it's important for you to explain that experience that you're having to that's important for you, you to to kind of find solutions, isn't it?

163
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And to get moving the way forward.

164
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So that it sounds like it's the worry for you, Mary, about him getting on my game, if that's happening.

165
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It is, yeah

166
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I mean, sometimes I think your dad's right. And other times I've just I'm just worried that you're going to relapse.

167
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And when you talk like this, it feels like you're not in a good place, although you think you're in a good place.

168
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Absolutely fine.

169
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If anything, I'm better than before.

170
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It's just kind of given me a really new perspective.

171
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When you say relapse, do you mean to going back to hospital?

172
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Yeah, Yeah.

173
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That's what I'm worried about.

174
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And I know we would struggle to have you at home and if you were really unwell, so that's the best place for you.

175
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But I don't want you to go back there.

176
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I want you to continue to take your medication.

177
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I want you to get out and do things like with your dad as well, but I like it when you're at home as well because I know where you are.

178
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I can keep you safe.

179
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This is what I'm talking about.

180
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Well, so thank you for telling me about the way you feel, but I just want to be clear that the cannabis use can't go on in our home.

181
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As much as your mum wants you to be home at any cost, I'm not prepared to have you at home at any cost.

182
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So this cannabis use has to be replaced by something else, and I want that to be exercise or thinking about other things to do outside the home.

183
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You said you like drums before you like music.

184
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What about getting out instead of staying at home all the time?

185
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I think it's really, really helpful that we've heard the perspectives and although they seem quite different, there are some things that you have in common, I think.

186
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And you clearly want things to be different, don't you?

187
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This is not how you think what things ought to be.

188
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And I just wondered, is there anything that you can point to at the moment that's going well?

189
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We're all in the house together.

190
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OK.

191
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Yeah, we do eat.

192
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We have an evening meal.

193
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That's and I like it when you're having an evening meal with us.

194
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It'd be like you being mad too, right.

195
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
OK.

196
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
So you're able to have meals together?

197
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Yeah.

198
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Yeah.

199
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Everything else.

200
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So you're back home?


201
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Obviously.

202
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Yeah.

203
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Not being in the hospital.

204
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It feels good.

205
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Yeah.

206
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Are there things that you're doing together apart from eating meals?

207
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Do you tend to do your own things?

208
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Well, I tend to look after the house, so yeah, Yeah.

209
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In and see Tim in his room.

210
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I'll bring in his laundry and we have a little chat, don't we, son?

211
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Yeah, we did a couple of crosswords, didn't we?

212
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We did.

213
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
So is there anything else you're doing there that you do for yourself?

214
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The house works fine, but it's not going to keep it going, is it?

215
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No, but you know.

216
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Yeah.

217
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No, not really.

218
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No.

219
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No.

220
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You haven't got much time on your hands at the moment.

221
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No.

222
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I just feel like my whole existence is Tim.

223
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I'm just just worried that.

224
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So you don't have much time together to do.

225
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Oh, we have, I think.

226
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
I think Mary's underestimating the impact of having a son who's unwell as having on the family.

227
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I've just retired now, I'm 65 years old.

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I know you're a lot younger than me, but we haven't been on a holiday since the children were little before Tim was unwell.

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And I want to spend the last years of my life, at least with my wife sometime having a life instead of cleaning up the mess.

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Sometimes Tim visit from this house.

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I want it to change.

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I can I can hear that's really important to you with the with the situation that's yeah affecting all of you.

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Just the wanting things to change and the worry about it, Mary.

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And they're just wanting to get your your perspective across, Tim, about what you're experiencing.
16:38
So we're not going to get to solutions on that today, but we we kind of need to end this meeting.
16:43
But I just wanted to check how you found meeting today.
16:47
How have you found, how have you found meeting with us?
16:50
How have you found us?
16:52
What's, what's it been like to talk these things through?
16:54
It's nice to have had a space and some time.

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So we're not going to get to solutions on that today, but we we kind of need to end this meeting.

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But I just wanted to check how you found meeting today.

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How have you found, how have you found meeting with us?

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How have you found us?

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What's, what's it been like to talk these things through?

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It's nice to have had a space and some time.

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Yeah, to just sit and like we have meals together, but we don't tend to talk this candidly.

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So it's nice to be able to actually hear what Hugh really thinks about how I mollycoddle Tim, I suppose.

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And it's just a realisation, I suppose, and how Tim feels.

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Maybe I'm a little bit overbearing.

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So how about you, Tim?

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How have you found it?

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I haven't, I haven't found it easily, but I think I can see that maybe it's a good thing.

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I don't want them to be unhappy and don't want them to be worried about me.

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So if this helps, I'm pleased we have the meeting, as difficult as it is.

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And I just want Tim to know that if you want to go out for a walk with your dad, I've got the time now to do that when maybe I didn't have the time when he was young.
So thank you, thank you, thank you for meeting.