[Script Info]
Title: 
[Events]
Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,0:00:00.01,0:00:04.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Two in San Jose and 59 degrees in downtown San Francisco.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:04.70,0:00:11.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ Music ]
Dialogue: 0,0:00:11.27,0:00:17.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Right, ladies and gentlemen, Michael Savage, Hot Talk 560 KSFO. We're talking
Dialogue: 0,0:00:17.14,0:00:20.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about what kind of world do you want to live in? What highway are we on? Do we
Dialogue: 0,0:00:20.91,0:00:23.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,want to be on this highway? Do we want to create a new highway? What did Plato
Dialogue: 0,0:00:23.91,0:00:27.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,say? This guy knew what was going on, but that was Greece. This is San
Dialogue: 0,0:00:27.27,0:00:28.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Francisco.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:28.39,0:00:33.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Is that the idea area? To keep talking until, finally, we get it right? We're
Dialogue: 0,0:00:33.35,0:00:37.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,having the same conversations Plato and his friends had back in 400 BC.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:37.92,0:00:39.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ Multiple Speakers ]
Dialogue: 0,0:00:39.24,0:00:41.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Did you see the paper the other day about that high school student who was
Dialogue: 0,0:00:41.03,0:00:42.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,caught cheating on her college boards.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:42.03,0:00:43.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Yeah, I read that, yeah.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:42.87,0:00:43.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Oh, yeah.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:43.87,0:00:47.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> She said her teacher gave her the answers and told her that everyone cheats.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:47.79,0:00:48.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's the way the world works.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:48.79,0:00:51.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> But I think it's sad. People are under a lot of pressure.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:51.85,0:00:55.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Let's face it here. If you were guaranteed that no one would find out,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:55.88,0:00:59.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,wouldn't you cheat?
Dialogue: 0,0:00:59.04,0:01:09.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Would you cheat? Would you? What if there was a world where nobody cheated,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:09.95,0:01:15.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and philosophers were the kings?
Dialogue: 0,0:01:15.04,0:01:45.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ Music ]
Dialogue: 0,0:01:46.61,0:01:51.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is a book that pulls you in, plays with your mind, and dares you to put it
Dialogue: 0,0:01:51.57,0:01:53.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,down without saying what you think.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:53.87,0:01:59.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Plato's Republic has the kind of power to intrigue and infuriate that few
Dialogue: 0,0:01:59.47,0:02:06.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,works can equal. You can argue about anything from whether we should allow
Dialogue: 0,0:02:06.26,0:02:10.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,certain kinds of music to be sold, whether we should censor the arts.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:11.02,0:02:12.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> What is justice?
Dialogue: 0,0:02:12.40,0:02:14.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> What is a great society? What ought to be?
Dialogue: 0,0:02:14.44,0:02:16.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> What is authentic, and what is fake?
Dialogue: 0,0:02:16.46,0:02:17.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> How one has knowledge.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:17.46,0:02:19.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> What do we teach the young?
Dialogue: 0,0:02:19.53,0:02:23.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Whatever it is, it's somewhere in Plato.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:23.29,0:02:28.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Plato's Republic follows the intellectual adventures of Socrates, who one
Dialogue: 0,0:02:28.63,0:02:35.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,night, 24 centuries ago, created an ideal city, the Republic, were all of
Dialogue: 0,0:02:35.48,0:02:38.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,mankind's problems are solved.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:38.13,0:02:41.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> This book, the Plato's Republic, changed my life.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:41.39,0:02:45.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> William Bennett, former Secretary of Education of the United States says it
Dialogue: 0,0:02:45.07,0:02:47.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,encouraged him to go into politics.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:47.43,0:02:51.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Plato says, yeah, we better have censorship in the ideal republic, because
Dialogue: 0,0:02:51.44,0:02:55.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you're going to have otherwise you're going to have license. Everyone's going to
Dialogue: 0,0:02:55.31,0:02:59.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,do what they see on the video tape, and the videotape didn't even exist. He said
Dialogue: 0,0:02:59.69,0:03:02.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he would kick out the poets, too. Go up to North Beach, I tend to agree with
Dialogue: 0,0:03:02.98,0:03:03.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,him.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:03.98,0:03:09.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Mike Savage, a radio talk show host, who bills himself as the compassionate
Dialogue: 0,0:03:09.16,0:03:13.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,conservative, reads it regularly to his listeners.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:13.21,0:03:17.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> It's sort of an internal chess game that I play with myself, and I will read
Dialogue: 0,0:03:17.29,0:03:22.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a few pages and find my mind, for, let's say, the pieces of thoughts that dance
Dialogue: 0,0:03:22.51,0:03:27.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,around in my head sometimes that get out of control fall in place. It's a way of
Dialogue: 0,0:03:27.25,0:03:33.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ordering my mind, my imagination, and all of my mental faculties.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:33.25,0:03:36.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Nobel prize-winning poet, Joseph Brodsky dismisses it.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:36.69,0:03:39.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> There are people, and people, you see, and this is what Plato couldn't
Dialogue: 0,0:03:39.31,0:03:46.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,understand. He thought that all people should be like, well, let's say himself.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:46.72,0:03:49.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Novelist Joyce Carol-Oates questions his sanity.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:49.64,0:03:58.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> The Platonic vision is basically somewhat unreal. It's basically mad.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:58.23,0:04:04.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Madman? Visionary? Plato has been hailed as the father of philosophy, the
Dialogue: 0,0:04:04.22,0:04:10.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,first feminist, a dangerously na�ve idealist, and a fascist. The fact is, we
Dialogue: 0,0:04:10.60,0:04:15.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,know very little about him or what he meant by his greatest book.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:15.41,0:04:20.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> It was, indeed, a kind of thought experiment to show the impossibility
Dialogue: 0,0:04:20.59,0:04:27.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,precisely of a perfectly just, perfectly communal, perfectly rational society.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:27.35,0:04:30.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What the limits are, the limits that are rooted in our human nature.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:30.72,0:04:35.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> I think it's the deepest challenge against our way of life that there has
Dialogue: 0,0:04:35.87,0:04:42.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ever been, and a deep challenge, because it has a kind of great nobility and
Dialogue: 0,0:04:42.19,0:04:43.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,beauty to it.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:43.80,0:04:50.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Plato was born in a place that worshiped beauty and knowledge, Athens, 428
Dialogue: 0,0:04:50.30,0:04:55.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,years before the birth of Christ. The newly completed Parthenon towered over the
Dialogue: 0,0:04:55.94,0:05:00.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,city, another crowning achievement to the world's first democracy. This was the
Dialogue: 0,0:05:00.13,0:05:04.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,golden age, where the first plays were performed and the first histories of the
Dialogue: 0,0:05:04.30,0:05:09.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,world were written, a time when the Athenians produced art and ideas that we
Dialogue: 0,0:05:09.80,0:05:10.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,still marvel at.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:10.96,0:05:18.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ Music ]
Dialogue: 0,0:05:18.39,0:05:24.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But it was also a time of devastating human loss. For the first 23 years of
Dialogue: 0,0:05:24.34,0:05:31.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Plato's life, the Peloponnesian war raged between Athens and its neighbor,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:31.65,0:05:36.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Sparta. Plato watched as the Athenian democracy was overthrown by a aristocrats,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:36.44,0:05:42.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then replaced by dictators before democracy sees control once again. The one
Dialogue: 0,0:05:42.92,0:05:48.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,constant through it all, in Plato's view, seemed to be corruption, brutality,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:48.16,0:05:53.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and blind ambition. Still, he probably would've ended up in politics like the
Dialogue: 0,0:05:53.83,0:05:59.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,rest of his wealthy family if he hadn't met a sidewalk philosopher named
Dialogue: 0,0:05:59.74,0:06:01.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Socrates.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:01.91,0:06:06.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Socrates seemed to have stood out in absolutely every possible way. He said
Dialogue: 0,0:06:06.23,0:06:13.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that he was to Athens what a gadfly is to a large, lazy horse, in that the gods
Dialogue: 0,0:06:13.77,0:06:19.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,had sent him there to prick Athens and to irritate it and to make it think
Dialogue: 0,0:06:19.13,0:06:22.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,seriously about the kind of life that its citizens were leading. He was there to
Dialogue: 0,0:06:22.37,0:06:23.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,make people uncomfortable.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:23.37,0:06:28.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Ever says this scum set up shop here, he's made me work twice as hard.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:28.02,0:06:30.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> So you say Simmias here is your enemy, because he makes you work harder than
Dialogue: 0,0:06:30.92,0:06:31.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you did before?
Dialogue: 0,0:06:31.92,0:06:34.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Well, isn't that enough to make any man your enemy?
Dialogue: 0,0:06:34.50,0:06:36.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> But an enemy is a man who does you evil, isn't he?
Dialogue: 0,0:06:36.62,0:06:38.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Any fool knows that.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:38.48,0:06:40.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> And a friend is one who does you good.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:40.59,0:06:41.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Any fool knows that, too.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:41.59,0:06:45.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> But what a fool does not know is what is good and what is evil. Now you make
Dialogue: 0,0:06:45.48,0:06:49.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,better vases and you work harder because of Simmias's competition, do you not?
Dialogue: 0,0:06:49.48,0:06:57.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> To talk to Socrates was to be taken down the garden path at the end of which
Dialogue: 0,0:06:57.31,0:07:02.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,one finds that, alas, you don't know what you're talking about. So it's fun to
Dialogue: 0,0:07:02.47,0:07:08.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,read the works. You sympathize with the person Socrates is questioning, and you
Dialogue: 0,0:07:08.49,0:07:14.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have a sense that this poor person is being had, but you don't know exactly how
Dialogue: 0,0:07:14.44,0:07:18.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's being done. Socrates is the master of this. He can give you enough rope to
Dialogue: 0,0:07:19.00,0:07:22.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,hang yourself, and he always does.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:22.60,0:07:26.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> The master wrote nothing himself. We know him through writers like the
Dialogue: 0,0:07:26.41,0:07:31.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,general, Xenophon, and the comic poet, Aristophanes, who lampooned Socrates as
Dialogue: 0,0:07:31.99,0:07:33.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the proprietor of a thinking shop.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:33.21,0:07:34.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Anger.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:34.21,0:07:36.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> I told you once, Simmias, and I won't tell you again.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:36.23,0:07:37.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Anger always interests me.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:37.69,0:07:38.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Protagoras.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:38.77,0:07:43.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> But the infamous Socratic method was captured most vividly by Plato in a
Dialogue: 0,0:07:43.46,0:07:49.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,series of imaginary conversations known as The Dialogs. He made his mentor the
Dialogue: 0,0:07:49.53,0:07:56.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,main character of more than 20 books, including The Republic. The action begins
Dialogue: 0,0:07:56.43,0:08:03.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the port of Piraeus, just outside Athens. Socrates bumps into an old friend
Dialogue: 0,0:08:03.86,0:08:10.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who invites him home to a party. It's there that he seizes the occasion to start
Dialogue: 0,0:08:10.96,0:08:13.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a conversation that will last all night.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:13.72,0:08:21.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>>Cephalus, it's clear that you're a good and decent man, so if anybody knows
Dialogue: 0,0:08:21.66,0:08:24.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what it means to be a good and just person, it's you.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:24.64,0:08:30.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> I have been able to proceed through life with a clear conscience. I haven't
Dialogue: 0,0:08:30.77,0:08:35.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,been tempted to cheat or deceive someone to survive. I pay my bills.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:35.71,0:08:37.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Occasionally, I give to a good cause.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:37.72,0:08:44.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> So if I understand you, Cephalus, to be a good person means to tell the truth
Dialogue: 0,0:08:44.07,0:08:46.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and to pay your debts.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:46.71,0:08:47.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Well, Socrates --
Dialogue: 0,0:08:47.71,0:08:56.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> The main argument of the Republic is an argument about being a good person,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:56.76,0:09:01.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but the term that's usually used in translations is justice and what's at stake
Dialogue: 0,0:09:01.36,0:09:03.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is the definition of justice.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:03.87,0:09:06.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> The style of the book's like the Johnny Carson show. Here we are, we're
Dialogue: 0,0:09:06.69,0:09:10.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,gathered together. We're talking. Let's meet so-and-so. Let's see what he has to
Dialogue: 0,0:09:10.57,0:09:14.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,say. Let's meet Cephalus. Well, Cephalus, come on out and tell us what you think
Dialogue: 0,0:09:14.21,0:09:17.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about things. Well, Polemarchus, come on out. What do you think? Well, here's
Dialogue: 0,0:09:17.48,0:09:21.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that crazy guy, Thrasymachus. Come on out, Thrasymachus. What do you think it
Dialogue: 0,0:09:21.32,0:09:25.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is? Well, it's like an ongoing, you know, late-night TV show with these
Dialogue: 0,0:09:25.88,0:09:29.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"experts" coming on. Here's your interviewer, your moderator, who says, well,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:29.60,0:09:34.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that won't do. No, that idea of justice won't do and this idea, and the audience
Dialogue: 0,0:09:35.00,0:09:36.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,gets caught up in it.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:36.08,0:09:43.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> A man has lent you a weapon and now wants to have it back, but in the
Dialogue: 0,0:09:43.98,0:09:49.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,meanwhile, he believes his wife's having an affair with someone else, and he's
Dialogue: 0,0:09:49.47,0:09:55.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,desperate and actually wants to kill himself. Would it be right to give him what
Dialogue: 0,0:09:55.12,0:09:57.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is rightfully his?
Dialogue: 0,0:09:57.56,0:09:59.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> No, I suppose not.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:59.56,0:10:04.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> So in this case, doing the right thing would, in fact, be doing the wrong
Dialogue: 0,0:10:04.60,0:10:11.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,thing. It's perfectly obvious that everyone is just doing what is in their best
Dialogue: 0,0:10:11.40,0:10:15.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,interests. The reality is that justice in this day and age is in what's in the
Dialogue: 0,0:10:16.00,0:10:20.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,interest of the stronger party. As a matter fact, I'll take it even further. The
Dialogue: 0,0:10:20.67,0:10:23.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,advantage goes to the unjust person every single time.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:23.45,0:10:25.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Let's see if I understand you.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:25.55,0:10:30.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> At this point in the story, Socrates smashes the theory that might makes
Dialogue: 0,0:10:30.57,0:10:35.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,right, but back in Athens, might smashed right. The leaders of the shaky
Dialogue: 0,0:10:35.19,0:10:41.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,democracy had only had only recently lost the Peloponnesian war. They were tired
Dialogue: 0,0:10:41.19,0:10:46.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of being stunned by Socrates's sharp tongue. In 399 BC, the 69-year-old
Dialogue: 0,0:10:46.11,0:10:50.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,philosopher was brought to trial for undermining the system.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:50.34,0:10:54.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> The official charge was that he did not believe in the gods of the city, and
Dialogue: 0,0:10:54.24,0:10:58.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that he corrupted the young. He showed you how to find holes in what other
Dialogue: 0,0:10:58.60,0:11:03.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people believed but didn't necessarily, in fact never, substituted something
Dialogue: 0,0:11:03.06,0:11:07.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,positive in its place, and that was seen as a very dangerous thing, which in
Dialogue: 0,0:11:07.37,0:11:12.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,fact, it was. After all, Plato, his greatest disciple, was also the greatest
Dialogue: 0,0:11:12.94,0:11:15.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,critic Athens has ever had.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:15.63,0:11:20.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Socrates's trial was attended by health of Athens, including Plato. He says
Dialogue: 0,0:11:20.76,0:11:25.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Socrates was offered his freedom if he would just stop questioning people, but
Dialogue: 0,0:11:25.59,0:11:31.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he refused, proclaiming that the unexamined life was not worth living. Found
Dialogue: 0,0:11:31.39,0:11:36.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,guilty by a jury of 500, he suggested he be sentenced to free meals at city hall
Dialogue: 0,0:11:36.17,0:11:41.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for the rest of his life. They didn't laugh. He was condemned to die by drinking
Dialogue: 0,0:11:41.25,0:11:45.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a poison made from the hemlock plant.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:45.62,0:11:48.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ Music ]
Dialogue: 0,0:11:49.00,0:11:52.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Plato's account of the death of Socrates made him a symbol of free speech and
Dialogue: 0,0:11:52.05,0:11:54.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the favorite subject for artists like Jacques-Louis David.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:54.55,0:12:00.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> His friends come to say goodbye to him, and he spends the whole day trying to
Dialogue: 0,0:12:00.79,0:12:06.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,convince them that the soul is immortal, and then after he dies, the soul, which
Dialogue: 0,0:12:06.24,0:12:10.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is the most valuable part of the human being, is going to remain perfectly
Dialogue: 0,0:12:10.41,0:12:14.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,unharmed. Socrates takes the poison and starts drinking it and continues
Dialogue: 0,0:12:14.04,0:12:19.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,discussing the issues. The executioner says "Please don't do that, because if
Dialogue: 0,0:12:19.56,0:12:23.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you get agitated and talk too much, the poison doesn't work so quickly."
Dialogue: 0,0:12:23.32,0:12:25.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Socrates says, "No leave me alone," he says. "Leave us alone, my good man. Your
Dialogue: 0,0:12:25.04,0:12:31.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,job is to give the poison as many times as it takes to kill me. My job is to
Dialogue: 0,0:12:31.38,0:12:37.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have a discussion for as long as I can." He insisted on talking until the very,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:37.13,0:12:45.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,very end. Plato closes the dialogue by describing him as the best, the wisest,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:45.32,0:12:50.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the most just man of all we knew at that time.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:50.23,0:12:55.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> The martyrdom of Socrates made a political career unthinkable Plato. He spent
Dialogue: 0,0:12:55.94,0:13:01.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the rest of his life carrying on his teacher's work. Nobody knows for sure where
Dialogue: 0,0:13:01.53,0:13:07.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Socrates's ideas leave off and Plato's begin. Over time, the two names have
Dialogue: 0,0:13:07.93,0:13:14.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,become interchangeable. It is as Socrates that Plato plans a new world, where
Dialogue: 0,0:13:14.37,0:13:20.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,wisdom, not power rules, and it is Socrates who explains why philosophers must
Dialogue: 0,0:13:20.52,0:13:25.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,be its catalyst. Until philosophers are kings or the kings and princes of this
Dialogue: 0,0:13:25.78,0:13:30.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,world have the spirit and the power of philosophy and political greatness and
Dialogue: 0,0:13:30.39,0:13:34.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,wisdom meet in one, our cities will never have rest from their evils. No, nor
Dialogue: 0,0:13:34.97,0:13:46.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the human race. Back at the party, Socrates has turned into the dinner guest
Dialogue: 0,0:13:46.95,0:13:49.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from hell. The rest of the company has been drawn into the debate.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:49.71,0:13:53.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> You want me to prove that virtue is its own worth.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:53.42,0:13:58.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> But you have to prove that the good and honest person who goes unrewarded and
Dialogue: 0,0:13:58.37,0:14:01.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,unrecognized comes out ahead in the end.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:01.57,0:14:02.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> You're on.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:02.57,0:14:05.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ Chuckling ]
Dialogue: 0,0:14:05.38,0:14:12.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We'll begin with a very simple society with men and women leading very basic
Dialogue: 0,0:14:12.29,0:14:13.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,lives, living close --
Dialogue: 0,0:14:13.79,0:14:19.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> And so Socrates begins to fantasize the first utopia in Western literature.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:19.41,0:14:26.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Perhaps they can find that good person with the best life here, he reasons. For
Dialogue: 0,0:14:26.92,0:14:33.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,after all, society is just the soul writ large.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:33.03,0:14:36.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> He originally creates the city as a device, in order to understand something
Dialogue: 0,0:14:36.17,0:14:41.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about human beings. He wants to say that each of us is made up of three parts.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:41.30,0:14:46.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's a rational part. There's an emotional part that loves honor and gets
Dialogue: 0,0:14:46.13,0:14:50.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,angry and so on, and then there's what he calls the appetitive part, which is
Dialogue: 0,0:14:50.55,0:14:56.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the part that wants food and drink and sex and so on, the bodily appetites.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:56.19,0:15:00.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Those animal appetites must be kept in their cages. Reason and honor will
Dialogue: 0,0:15:00.75,0:15:08.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,rule the republic, just like the well-ordered soul. Everybody gets one job for
Dialogue: 0,0:15:08.42,0:15:17.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,life, and a color-coded class, bronze for workers, merchants, and artisans.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:17.22,0:15:25.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Silver for police and soldiers. And pure gold, naturally, for the philosopher
Dialogue: 0,0:15:25.71,0:15:26.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,King.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:26.71,0:15:32.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> See, he said that there's three types of people, the gold person, the silver
Dialogue: 0,0:15:32.72,0:15:36.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,person, etc. Now you may say, oh, my God. That means some people are not as good
Dialogue: 0,0:15:36.93,0:15:38.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as others. Well, let me ask you something --
Dialogue: 0,0:15:38.84,0:15:41.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Who's to determine what class they get into?
Dialogue: 0,0:15:41.04,0:15:45.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> It's real simple. I could never be a linebacker. I said that yesterday on the
Dialogue: 0,0:15:45.22,0:15:50.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,49ers, but don't let me sit and listen to somebody tell me every 49er is capable
Dialogue: 0,0:15:50.62,0:15:52.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of being a poet or philosopher.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:52.00,0:15:53.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Right.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:53.00,0:15:55.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> We're not equal.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:55.32,0:15:58.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> In Plato's Republic, the philosopher kings would much prefer to be off
Dialogue: 0,0:15:58.76,0:16:05.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,thinking, but duty requires them to rule the state. Eternal bonding is
Dialogue: 0,0:16:05.85,0:16:10.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,forbidden. It might detract from loyalty to the state. Mothers care for babies,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:10.73,0:16:16.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but they aren't told which ones are their own. A child's place is determined not
Dialogue: 0,0:16:16.44,0:16:25.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by sex or race, but purely by intelligence. A farmer's daughter might become a
Dialogue: 0,0:16:25.93,0:16:26.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,philosopher queen.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:26.93,0:16:32.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> He does imagine that there will be some women all the way up to the top
Dialogue: 0,0:16:32.09,0:16:37.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,class. "If then, we use the women for the same ends as the men, we must teach
Dialogue: 0,0:16:37.13,0:16:42.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,them the same things. Yes, the males received an education consisted of
Dialogue: 0,0:16:42.34,0:16:47.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,literature and athletics, yes. Then we should give these two sorts of training
Dialogue: 0,0:16:47.77,0:16:51.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the women, too, and military training also, and we should treat them in the
Dialogue: 0,0:16:51.49,0:16:53.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,same way."
Dialogue: 0,0:16:53.30,0:16:58.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Repos in Plato's time probably greeted this with astonishment. Athenian women
Dialogue: 0,0:16:58.86,0:17:06.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,had no vote and virtually no education. Often, the weren't even the sexual
Dialogue: 0,0:17:06.48,0:17:14.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,partners of choice. Wives didn't eat at the same table as their husbands, let
Dialogue: 0,0:17:14.30,0:17:16.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,alone fight beside them at war.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:16.88,0:17:22.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> It's a world in which men and women are completely equalized on the premise
Dialogue: 0,0:17:22.29,0:17:27.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that women must never again be mothers. So I think what Plato means to say is
Dialogue: 0,0:17:27.07,0:17:31.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this is what it would take to really overcome sexual differentiation and
Dialogue: 0,0:17:31.86,0:17:32.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,hierarchy.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:32.86,0:17:38.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Was the Republic meant as a straightforward blueprint or a political satire,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:38.18,0:17:41.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as many scholars insist. Maybe some of both.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:41.62,0:17:45.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> There is the sense that in his city, I would not be able to do what I liked.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:45.68,0:17:50.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is a sense in which I would not be able to have my own family in my city.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:50.96,0:17:57.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Those are very, very frightening ideas. On the other hand, on the other hand,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:57.05,0:18:08.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there's this incredible love of learning, of understanding, of trying to fit all
Dialogue: 0,0:18:08.70,0:18:12.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the various pieces of our lives and of the world together in such a way that
Dialogue: 0,0:18:12.78,0:18:19.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they can't even for one moment, make sense to us. It's such a powerful idea that
Dialogue: 0,0:18:19.59,0:18:24.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there are moments when you say, even if the price is the other, it might be
Dialogue: 0,0:18:24.06,0:18:25.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,worth paying.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:25.94,0:18:31.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Plato doesn't want the rulers fighting over money or personal relationships.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:31.27,0:18:35.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So he doesn't give them any. The rest are allowed the comforts of their own
Dialogue: 0,0:18:35.28,0:18:43.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,homes and families but have no say in how things are run. Those who have can't
Dialogue: 0,0:18:43.09,0:18:51.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,rule. Those who rule can't have. It's an interesting idea. To keep up the
Dialogue: 0,0:18:51.09,0:18:56.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,quality of the flock, the philosopher kings secretly rig periodic meeting
Dialogue: 0,0:18:56.10,0:19:00.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,lotteries to produce the best possible offspring. Once the children are born,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:00.83,0:19:06.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the society begins shaping their characters early and carefully.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:06.48,0:19:10.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ Music ]
Dialogue: 0,0:19:10.10,0:19:14.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Shall we just carelessly allow children to hear any casual tales, which may be
Dialogue: 0,0:19:14.26,0:19:19.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,devised by casual persons? And to receive into their minds ideas, for the most
Dialogue: 0,0:19:19.62,0:19:23.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,part, the very opposite of those which we should wish them to have when they're
Dialogue: 0,0:19:23.12,0:19:25.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,grown up? We cannot."
Dialogue: 0,0:19:25.78,0:19:29.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> William Bennett's collection of stories, The Book of Virtues, starts with
Dialogue: 0,0:19:29.16,0:19:31.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that quote from The Republic.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:31.50,0:19:36.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> There's really only one fundamental political question, and that is the
Dialogue: 0,0:19:36.16,0:19:38.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,education of the young. It's a very platonic thought. I mean, I think anyone
Dialogue: 0,0:19:38.87,0:19:43.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would agree. What do we tell them about ethics? What do we tell them about jobs,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:43.55,0:19:48.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,life, career, destiny, fate? Isn't that what determines the future of this
Dialogue: 0,0:19:48.69,0:19:52.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,country, education? And that is, essentially, what he saying in this book. That
Dialogue: 0,0:19:52.71,0:19:54.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the whole course of a city state and the whole course of a life depends upon
Dialogue: 0,0:19:54.99,0:19:56.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,education.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:56.93,0:20:02.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ Multiple Speakers ]
Dialogue: 0,0:20:02.17,0:20:07.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> To ensure that the Republic remains on course, the children are only allowed
Dialogue: 0,0:20:07.19,0:20:13.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to hear heroic and uplifting tales. Homer's stories about the gods temper
Dialogue: 0,0:20:13.89,0:20:18.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,tantrums and carousing with humans are out. So is rowdy music.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:18.56,0:20:23.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> This is Zeus.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:23.05,0:20:27.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Socrates decrees that any poet who refuses to produce politically correct
Dialogue: 0,0:20:27.96,0:20:33.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,fairytales will be banished from the kingdom.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:33.58,0:20:37.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> "The first thing will be to establish a censorship of the writers of fiction
Dialogue: 0,0:20:37.86,0:20:41.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and let the sensors receive any tale of fiction which is good and reject the
Dialogue: 0,0:20:41.70,0:20:46.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,bad. And we will desire mothers and nurses to tell their children the authorized
Dialogue: 0,0:20:46.50,0:20:53.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ones only." Well, this is just a very spirit of the dictator.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:53.67,0:20:57.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Censoring storytelling in ancient Athens would be like censoring TV in our
Dialogue: 0,0:20:57.69,0:21:03.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,own culture. The tragic plays of Sophocles and Aeschylus were the free press of
Dialogue: 0,0:21:04.00,0:21:11.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,their day. And Homer, author of the Iliad and the Odyssey, was a read as a guide
Dialogue: 0,0:21:11.49,0:21:18.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to life and revered as a god. Plato thought that was unhealthy. As he puts it in
Dialogue: 0,0:21:18.03,0:21:24.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The Republic, "Good role models don't make good theater." He doubted whether
Dialogue: 0,0:21:24.65,0:21:28.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,average citizens could separate reality from fantasy and worried that they might
Dialogue: 0,0:21:28.67,0:21:30.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,imitate the world they saw on the stage.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:30.75,0:21:36.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> And he said if amusements become lawless and the youths themselves become
Dialogue: 0,0:21:36.96,0:21:41.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,lawless, they could never grow up into well conducted and virtuous citizens.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:41.42,0:21:48.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Who is to give the guidance that's most authoritative in life? Is it to be
Dialogue: 0,0:21:48.71,0:21:54.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the philosopher, which includes the scientists, the man of reason? Or is it to
Dialogue: 0,0:21:54.12,0:22:00.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,be the poet, the person or man of inspiration of the gods, of revelation, of
Dialogue: 0,0:22:00.22,0:22:09.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,mystery? And Socrates insistence is the poets need, finally, to bow to reason.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:09.24,0:22:13.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That would be one of the great costs of a perfectly just society. If you're
Dialogue: 0,0:22:13.65,0:22:19.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,going to say everyone must be brothers and sisters, don't expect Shakespeare or
Dialogue: 0,0:22:19.24,0:22:22.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Goethe or Aristophanes to be part of it.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:22.39,0:22:28.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> "From my window at dusk, I would watch the horde of bleating automobiles, as
Dialogue: 0,0:22:28.33,0:22:34.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they flash back and forth past shapely, nude columns and Dordic hairdos,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:34.89,0:22:38.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,standing pale and un-rebellious on the steps of the city court."
Dialogue: 0,0:22:38.04,0:22:42.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> For the late Russian poet, Joseph Brodsky, this is no theoretical discussion.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:42.70,0:22:49.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He lived in Plato's Republic Soviet style. Jailed four times, he was finally
Dialogue: 0,0:22:49.03,0:22:50.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,exiled as a social parasite.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:50.21,0:22:55.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> There is a certain point that it was allowed in the city, well, and a certain
Dialogue: 0,0:22:55.57,0:23:00.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,point which it wasn't. As simple as that. The state was simply doing the
Dialogue: 0,0:23:00.37,0:23:07.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,discerning job, which is, essentially, a very Platonic idea in the sense,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:07.99,0:23:14.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because what it does, it simply subordinates ascetics to the ethics. This is
Dialogue: 0,0:23:14.06,0:23:20.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,exactly what Plato is all about, and this is garbage. Well, aesthetic is, how
Dialogue: 0,0:23:20.74,0:23:24.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,should I put it to you? Aesthetics is the mother of ethics, not the other way
Dialogue: 0,0:23:24.85,0:23:28.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,around. No matter how ethical society can build, it won't secure the
Dialogue: 0,0:23:28.79,0:23:31.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,masterpiece. Good ethics don't.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:31.54,0:23:39.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ Music ]
Dialogue: 0,0:23:39.95,0:23:44.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Plato thought reason should rule in his republic. We think he pushed it a
Dialogue: 0,0:23:44.07,0:23:47.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,little too far. We reject the eugenics. We reject the imposition of order. We
Dialogue: 0,0:23:47.03,0:23:51.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would reject the censorship. No, there's too much totalitarianism here. There's
Dialogue: 0,0:23:51.15,0:23:54.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,too much utopian totalitarianism. There's too much tyranny. There's too much the
Dialogue: 0,0:23:54.95,0:23:56.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,smart guys know best.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:56.17,0:23:59.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> When he gets to the point of saying you shouldn't love your children. We
Dialogue: 0,0:23:59.13,0:24:02.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,should structure the city in such a way that we don't even know who our own
Dialogue: 0,0:24:02.85,0:24:13.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,children are, so that we won't have these intense personal attachments, you
Dialogue: 0,0:24:13.82,0:24:14.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,can't run a city that way, because if people don't love their own, that they're
Dialogue: 0,0:24:14.82,0:24:15.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not going to care about anything else either. The vision of The Republic is a
Dialogue: 0,0:24:15.82,0:24:19.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,vision of justice and harmony. Well, people are not going to be harmonious,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:19.70,0:24:23.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because people are going to insist upon, in the face of all these laws,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:23.62,0:24:27.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,committing adultery. They're going to have romantic liaisons. Children are not
Dialogue: 0,0:24:27.48,0:24:33.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,going to want to be taken from their mothers. Mothers are going to love their
Dialogue: 0,0:24:33.59,0:24:37.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,children. Somebody's going to want to create music. Everybody is born with the
Dialogue: 0,0:24:37.57,0:24:43.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,specific spiritual identity, and we're not worker ants. I'm not sure that ants
Dialogue: 0,0:24:43.77,0:24:48.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are happy. I really wouldn't want to be an ant to find out.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:48.88,0:24:53.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> I don't think any serious person could agree that The Republic is really a
Dialogue: 0,0:24:53.22,0:24:56.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,good place to live in, and I doubt very much whether Socrates or Plato did. The
Dialogue: 0,0:24:56.99,0:25:02.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Republic is meant by Plato to prove that philosophers can never be kings, and
Dialogue: 0,0:25:02.64,0:25:07.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we can never have a completely communistic society. It establishes the
Dialogue: 0,0:25:07.17,0:25:12.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,limits of politics, I think, more clearly and more profoundly than any thinker
Dialogue: 0,0:25:12.55,0:25:17.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ever has, precisely by pressing those limits of this fantastic thought
Dialogue: 0,0:25:17.53,0:25:18.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,experiment.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:18.71,0:25:23.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> My own view is that he believed it. He believed every word of it, and he
Dialogue: 0,0:25:23.75,0:25:29.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,never had a doubt that if his city was installed, it would be the best city in
Dialogue: 0,0:25:29.39,0:25:30.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the world.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:30.39,0:25:32.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> No, that's why we go to wise men and experts, isn't it? To clear things like
Dialogue: 0,0:25:32.77,0:25:33.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this up.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:33.97,0:25:40.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ Music ]
Dialogue: 0,0:25:40.09,0:25:51.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Is this a real mountain? Plato didn't think so. What about those clouds? This
Dialogue: 0,0:25:51.74,0:26:00.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,flower? That bee? He said they're just copies. That there's a parallel world
Dialogue: 0,0:26:00.29,0:26:08.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where you'll find the ideal cloud, the original flower, the perfect bee. The
Dialogue: 0,0:26:08.82,0:26:14.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,soul is imprinted with these models at conception. That's how we recognize a
Dialogue: 0,0:26:14.33,0:26:20.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,tree, for instance, when we see one. For Plato, the idea of a tree that you hold
Dialogue: 0,0:26:20.95,0:26:28.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in your mind is what's real. This particular tree, and all the others we see,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:28.11,0:26:30.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are just imitations of that idea.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:30.11,0:26:43.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Plato's theory of forms is an effort to explain what's true in an absolute
Dialogue: 0,0:26:43.51,0:26:55.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sense. What is it possible to know really? Answer, what doesn't change. When you
Dialogue: 0,0:26:55.61,0:26:59.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,will learn geometry, you're not learning about chalk circles. You're not
Dialogue: 0,0:26:59.79,0:27:06.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,learning about circles that are even more perfect than the one I've drawn, if,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:06.19,0:27:12.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in fact, the circle is made of something physical. You're learning about an
Dialogue: 0,0:27:12.80,0:27:22.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ideal circle. One that you can't touch. One that you can't even see, because any
Dialogue: 0,0:27:22.18,0:27:31.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,circle you could see would be a physical circle. And so, Plato, wanting to point
Dialogue: 0,0:27:31.24,0:27:39.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,us to what can't change and is perfect, wants us to consider a circle that can't
Dialogue: 0,0:27:39.35,0:27:40.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,be seen.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:40.75,0:27:43.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ Music ]
Dialogue: 0,0:27:43.10,0:27:53.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> What do we see about the three yellow and the two green? What do we see?
Dialogue: 0,0:27:53.63,0:27:59.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Mathematicians proving the existence of invisible circles and abstract
Dialogue: 0,0:27:59.19,0:28:04.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,equations all deal with ideal forms, but the kind of mental leap Plato was
Dialogue: 0,0:28:04.56,0:28:08.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,talking about went way beyond math, and that's frustrated philosophers for
Dialogue: 0,0:28:08.51,0:28:15.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,centuries. On file in that metaphysical heaven, were perfect examples of
Dialogue: 0,0:28:15.15,0:28:21.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,everything in the universe, even qualities like beauty, justice, and goodness.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:21.36,0:28:26.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Today, wise men and women say he was looking in the wrong direction. For them,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:26.60,0:28:32.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,our world, this minute, is as real as it gets.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:32.99,0:28:37.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> These ideas were always be evolving, so long as we are human, and so long as
Dialogue: 0,0:28:37.89,0:28:42.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,consciousness is evolving. You simply can't stop history. You see, everything is
Dialogue: 0,0:28:42.42,0:28:46.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,changing. Reality is flux.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:46.72,0:28:52.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Whatever you think of Plato's quest for permanent answers, nobody denies the
Dialogue: 0,0:28:52.16,0:28:54.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,power of The Republic's most famous story, the allegory of the cave.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:54.58,0:29:04.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ Music ]
Dialogue: 0,0:29:04.29,0:29:09.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Imagine that this is the only world you've ever known. For as long as you can
Dialogue: 0,0:29:09.30,0:29:12.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,remember, you've been chained here in this cave watching the shadows dance on
Dialogue: 0,0:29:12.26,0:29:13.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the wall in front of you.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:13.71,0:29:21.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ Music ]
Dialogue: 0,0:29:21.24,0:29:27.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Unable to even turn around, you have no idea that they are merely reflections
Dialogue: 0,0:29:27.45,0:29:32.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,cast by the outside world. You believe they are all there is to life. This is
Dialogue: 0,0:29:32.100,0:29:34.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,your reality.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:34.44,0:29:38.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ Music ]
Dialogue: 0,0:29:38.57,0:29:42.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then one day our prisoner breaks loose.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:42.86,0:29:53.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ Music ]
Dialogue: 0,0:29:53.27,0:30:00.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Drawn to the light, he is almost blinded by his first sight of the sun. But
Dialogue: 0,0:30:00.70,0:30:11.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,little by little, he is able to open his eyes and see the world beyond the cave.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:11.89,0:30:13.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> We are prisoners right now. We are now in the middle of a cave, [inaudible]
Dialogue: 0,0:30:13.43,0:30:19.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of a dark room in which we are all tied up. This is the cave. The freest moments
Dialogue: 0,0:30:19.08,0:30:23.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we have for Plato are moments of imprisonment, are moments of slavery. We
Dialogue: 0,0:30:23.66,0:30:29.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all begin, in some sense, is prisoners of our culture or our religion or our
Dialogue: 0,0:30:29.24,0:30:33.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,civilization. We're given answers to the most fundamental questions. What is
Dialogue: 0,0:30:33.66,0:30:40.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,love? What's a good family? Who is God? Nowadays, the currently fashionable
Dialogue: 0,0:30:40.14,0:30:43.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,conventional philosophy that's taught in our schools is something called
Dialogue: 0,0:30:43.76,0:30:47.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,pragmatism. The idea being that we just simply can't really transcend our own
Dialogue: 0,0:30:47.98,0:30:52.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,time and culture. That we just have to deal with the world that's given to us.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:52.64,0:30:56.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now Plato would say that means just rearranging the shadows on the walls of our
Dialogue: 0,0:30:56.28,0:30:57.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,cave.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:57.28,0:31:00.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> One of the tasks of The Republic is to bring people out of the cave, so
Dialogue: 0,0:31:00.39,0:31:05.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they're not looking at shadows, but looking at the real thing out into the sun.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:05.77,0:31:10.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If there's a cave today and shadows the people are looking at, it is the sort of
Dialogue: 0,0:31:11.01,0:31:14.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,darkened living room at four in the afternoon, with those images flickering
Dialogue: 0,0:31:14.96,0:31:16.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,across the screen, miseducating the young.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:16.10,0:31:21.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ Music ]
Dialogue: 0,0:31:21.98,0:31:28.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Are his fellow prisoners thrilled to learn that the real world is out there?
Dialogue: 0,0:31:28.21,0:31:33.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Not exactly. Plato ends the story by saying that they would tear the enlightened
Dialogue: 0,0:31:33.77,0:31:39.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,one limb from limb if they could break their chains. He has challenged
Dialogue: 0,0:31:39.26,0:31:42.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,everything they believe in. Of course, once you've seen the light, it's hard to
Dialogue: 0,0:31:42.44,0:31:47.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,go back. As Socrates discovered, it's a lonely being the bearer of new ideas.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:47.91,0:31:50.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ Music ]
Dialogue: 0,0:31:50.70,0:31:54.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The most damning criticism of The Republic came in the 1940s.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:54.48,0:31:55.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Seig!
Dialogue: 0,0:31:55.48,0:31:57.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Heil!
Dialogue: 0,0:31:57.08,0:31:58.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Seig!
Dialogue: 0,0:31:57.55,0:32:02.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Heil! Heil.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:02.98,0:32:10.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Philosopher Karl Popper the charge that Plato had opened the door for this
Dialogue: 0,0:32:10.75,0:32:17.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,madness with the eugenically superior model state he had envisioned in 386 BC.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:17.71,0:32:22.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> People do think of Plato as a fascist, as maybe the first fascist, maybe is
Dialogue: 0,0:32:22.09,0:32:26.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the greatest fascist. I think it's extraordinarily unfair and inaccurate to
Dialogue: 0,0:32:26.41,0:32:30.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,think of him in those terms. He does not believe in any kind of racial
Dialogue: 0,0:32:30.38,0:32:32.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,superiority of the people in his city. He does not believe that this society can
Dialogue: 0,0:32:32.62,0:32:35.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,come about by, as it were, forcible means.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:35.37,0:32:42.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ Explosions ]
Dialogue: 0,0:32:42.78,0:32:49.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> The idea that Plato foreshadowed certain ideas that we've come to associate
Dialogue: 0,0:32:49.10,0:32:52.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with fascism, I'd say, I think that's fairly tenable. If Plato had never lived,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:52.95,0:32:59.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,however, we would still have had Hitler. One certainly can't blame Plato for
Dialogue: 0,0:32:59.39,0:33:04.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Hitler or Stalin or Marx or Lenin. It's not for their theories that they're
Dialogue: 0,0:33:04.28,0:33:09.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,remembered but for their actions. They were brutal murderers.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:09.32,0:33:17.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Corruption is the human norm, and this is what Plato won't swallow.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:17.23,0:33:20.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Plato's understanding of human nature might appear to be as abstract as his
Dialogue: 0,0:33:20.93,0:33:25.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ideas, but some of those ideas are still very much alive. For instance, in
Dialogue: 0,0:33:25.93,0:33:30.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Singapore, in just 30 years, this small, ethnically diverse island has been
Dialogue: 0,0:33:30.55,0:33:31.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,transformed into one nation, one people, one Singapore.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:31.89,0:33:40.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ Singing ]
Dialogue: 0,0:33:40.41,0:33:45.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Led by a benevolent despot named Lee Kwan Yew, whose reputation for integrity is
Dialogue: 0,0:33:45.61,0:33:49.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as legendary as his strict controls, the crime rate is down. The standard of
Dialogue: 0,0:33:50.01,0:33:54.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,living is up. It's seen as one of the most astonishing success stories in the
Dialogue: 0,0:33:54.13,0:33:58.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,developing world and is a nation in a straitjacket.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:58.07,0:34:03.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> He has curtailed individual freedoms and put into place a highly moralistic
Dialogue: 0,0:34:03.77,0:34:09.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and constraining conception, which includes a lot of policies for breeding. I
Dialogue: 0,0:34:09.42,0:34:14.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,mean, eugenic policies, which say that we'll give special breaks to people in
Dialogue: 0,0:34:14.62,0:34:18.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,certain classes when they reproduce but will penalize reproduction and some of
Dialogue: 0,0:34:18.82,0:34:24.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the other ethnic groups. All of this, with a kind of Platonic idea that in this
Dialogue: 0,0:34:24.85,0:34:29.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,way, we're going to promote the common good and raise people's well-being.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:29.03,0:34:30.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> It's Hot Talk 560 KSFO.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:30.03,0:34:34.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> I got a quote from another political scientist, Ben Franklin. He said,
Dialogue: 0,0:34:34.55,0:34:38.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"People who are willing to sacrifice freedom in exchange for security will
Dialogue: 0,0:34:38.11,0:34:39.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,receive neither and deserve neither."
Dialogue: 0,0:34:39.61,0:34:42.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Yes, I love that. That's very beautiful. So you're saying --
Dialogue: 0,0:34:42.57,0:34:47.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> How do we make America an orderly state without making it overly orderly and
Dialogue: 0,0:34:48.00,0:34:52.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,turn it into a Singapore where a piece of chewing gum on the street is an
Dialogue: 0,0:34:52.92,0:34:56.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,offense for $500, for example? I don't want to live in in this Huxleyan Brave
Dialogue: 0,0:34:56.75,0:35:03.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,New World, okay? So I think maybe, Plato's Republic can also warn us away from
Dialogue: 0,0:35:03.39,0:35:10.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,an overly ordered state, an overly clean place, an overly good place.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:10.97,0:35:16.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Time to take out the trash and clean out the barn.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:16.62,0:35:20.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>>Ah, that brings us to a democracy. Could a philosopher king survive in
Dialogue: 0,0:35:20.98,0:35:21.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Washington DC?
Dialogue: 0,0:35:21.98,0:35:28.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> On the one hand, it's wonderful that anyone can grow up to be president. On
Dialogue: 0,0:35:28.32,0:35:33.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the other hand, it's frightening that anyone can grow up to be president.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:33.18,0:35:38.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> America doesn't choose its leaders by lot, as ancient Athens did. It holds
Dialogue: 0,0:35:38.24,0:35:43.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,popularity contests instead. Plato might well have admired the idea of a small
Dialogue: 0,0:35:43.73,0:35:48.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,group of wise men and women seeking justice in the courts, but he'd most likely
Dialogue: 0,0:35:48.23,0:35:54.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,see America's obsession with individual power, money, and success as signs of a
Dialogue: 0,0:35:54.38,0:35:56.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,society with a seriously disordered soul.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:56.64,0:36:02.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> One of the serious criticisms Plato addresses to democracy is that its love
Dialogue: 0,0:36:02.07,0:36:08.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of freedom easily becomes a life of license without realizing it. That a taste
Dialogue: 0,0:36:08.53,0:36:11.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for having no restrictions can easily replace the more thoughtful and mature
Dialogue: 0,0:36:11.90,0:36:14.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,conception of freedom, which is freedom has to be freedom under the rule of law.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:14.75,0:36:19.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ Crowd Shouting ]
Dialogue: 0,0:36:19.11,0:36:26.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> I mean, can we admit that our public life is disordered in something like the
Dialogue: 0,0:36:26.27,0:36:29.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,way Plato says, and yet still defend our own way of life? What can the role of
Dialogue: 0,0:36:29.45,0:36:32.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,reason be in a democracy like ours without taking away the freedoms that we all
Dialogue: 0,0:36:32.31,0:36:34.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,cherish?
Dialogue: 0,0:36:34.56,0:36:38.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ Music ]
Dialogue: 0,0:36:38.35,0:36:44.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> The citizens of the Republic are satisfied with their place in life, because
Dialogue: 0,0:36:44.17,0:36:48.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they've been told that the gods created them for different purposes. That's why
Dialogue: 0,0:36:48.44,0:36:52.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they made some people with gold in their veins, some with silver, and some with
Dialogue: 0,0:36:52.71,0:36:54.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,bronze. In the book, Socrates calls the story The Noble Lie.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:54.66,0:37:00.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ Snare Drum Playing ]
Dialogue: 0,0:37:00.29,0:37:05.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> We, too, have our myths, our noble lies. The Declaration of Independence,
Dialogue: 0,0:37:05.93,0:37:11.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,prior to a probing philosophical analysis, which very people undertake, it
Dialogue: 0,0:37:11.76,0:37:15.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,really comes to us and is taught to us when we're Young is a kind of myth, a
Dialogue: 0,0:37:15.64,0:37:20.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,kind of poetry, a kind of beautiful belief, and what the philosopher in our
Dialogue: 0,0:37:20.72,0:37:21.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,society, if he was a Socratic, would have to do is question it, doubt it. Ask
Dialogue: 0,0:37:21.72,0:37:23.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what do we mean by human rights? Do they exist?
Dialogue: 0,0:37:23.49,0:37:25.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ Music ]
Dialogue: 0,0:37:25.97,0:37:35.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> The Republic was Plato's ultimate attempt to vindicate Socrates way of life.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:35.91,0:37:41.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In the allegory of the cave he says that the escaped prisoner cannot sit alone
Dialogue: 0,0:37:42.00,0:37:48.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,forever under the sky of ideas. It is the philosopher's job to return to the
Dialogue: 0,0:37:48.60,0:37:55.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,cave and try gradually to turn others away from the shadows.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:55.33,0:38:00.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> The deep insight into human beings here is that we are political creatures.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:00.80,0:38:05.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That the life of the city and our lives are inextricably intertwined. That
Dialogue: 0,0:38:05.46,0:38:09.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,probably explains why I'm engaged personally, so much engaged in public life and
Dialogue: 0,0:38:09.88,0:38:16.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,politics. I am persuaded by Plato that the man who lives away from the affairs
Dialogue: 0,0:38:16.02,0:38:20.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the city state is the idiot. That to separate oneself from the life of the
Dialogue: 0,0:38:20.02,0:38:21.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,community is to separate out oneself from life itself.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:21.72,0:38:30.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ Music ]
Dialogue: 0,0:38:30.20,0:38:35.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Plato wasn't just someone who lectured and wrote. He was someone who started
Dialogue: 0,0:38:35.84,0:38:41.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a school. His school was called The Academy. The word we have now, academy, and
Dialogue: 0,0:38:41.73,0:38:47.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,likewise, the word academics, comes from the Greek word, and at his school, he
Dialogue: 0,0:38:47.66,0:38:52.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,had a student who went on to become rather famous it is all right. His name was
Dialogue: 0,0:38:52.73,0:38:53.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Aristotle.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:53.73,0:39:00.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Aristotle arrived at The Academy when he was 17. He spent the next 20 years
Dialogue: 0,0:39:00.73,0:39:05.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,arguing with Plato about the meaning of it all before he went on to tutor
Dialogue: 0,0:39:05.12,0:39:11.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Alexander the Great. The world's first university lasted for almost 1000 years.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:11.67,0:39:14.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then in 529 AD, the Christians targeted this early think tank as a pagan
Dialogue: 0,0:39:14.02,0:39:16.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,stronghold and shut it down forever.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:16.18,0:39:24.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ Non-English Spoken ]
Dialogue: 0,0:39:24.70,0:39:29.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Today, there's not much left of Plato's Academy, but it is still hallowed ground
Dialogue: 0,0:39:29.55,0:39:37.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for those lovers of wisdom who gather each week to listen to the ideas of modern
Dialogue: 0,0:39:37.13,0:39:41.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,philosophers. When the school was closed, the Academy's students fled, probably
Dialogue: 0,0:39:41.55,0:39:45.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,taking Plato's and Aristotle's manuscripts with them for safekeeping.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:45.52,0:39:48.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> It meant that they were scattered all around the Mediterranean world,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:48.98,0:39:54.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,extremely good copies of all of Plato's works, and this meant that the odds that
Dialogue: 0,0:39:54.68,0:40:00.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they would last of The Dark Ages and be rediscovered in cellars and in wine
Dialogue: 0,0:40:00.38,0:40:05.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,casks, in all kinds of crazy places was much greater than, for example, poor
Dialogue: 0,0:40:05.84,0:40:16.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Sophocles or poor Euripides, most of whose plays were lost, and so on.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:16.05,0:40:19.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Socrates survived the dark ages, thanks to Islamic scholars. They translated
Dialogue: 0,0:40:19.83,0:40:21.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Plato into Arabic and passed his books through Egypt, India, Persia, in Spain.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:21.01,0:40:27.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It wasn't until centuries later that the ancient texts were finally unearthed in
Dialogue: 0,0:40:27.96,0:40:34.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Europe and translated into Latin and other languages. This ninth century
Dialogue: 0,0:40:34.92,0:40:38.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,manuscript found in Constantinople was purchased by King Henry IV of France
Dialogue: 0,0:40:38.12,0:40:44.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,towards the end of the 16th century. It is believed to be the oldest surviving
Dialogue: 0,0:40:44.58,0:40:51.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,copy of The Republic in the world. In the 24 centuries since it was written,
Dialogue: 0,0:40:51.69,0:40:57.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Plato's Republic has sired hundreds of imaginary worlds. In 1516, Sir Thomas
Dialogue: 0,0:40:57.46,0:41:04.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,More named the mythical kingdom he modeled on Plato Utopia. In Greek, it means
Dialogue: 0,0:41:04.05,0:41:11.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,both no place and good place. Sigmund Freud studied Plato. The inventor of
Dialogue: 0,0:41:11.15,0:41:15.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,psychiatry divided the human psyche into the into the id, the ego, and the super
Dialogue: 0,0:41:15.50,0:41:20.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ego, an intriguing resemblance to Plato's balance of reason, honor, and passion
Dialogue: 0,0:41:20.18,0:41:22.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the well-ordered human soul.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:22.36,0:41:27.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> That idea that the person is the soul or the mind, and that the body is
Dialogue: 0,0:41:27.90,0:41:35.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,somehow external and temporary, a bit like a house in which you might live, has
Dialogue: 0,0:41:35.04,0:41:40.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,been a very prominent idea in the history of Western civilization. Of course, it
Dialogue: 0,0:41:40.24,0:41:46.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has obvious connections with the immortality of the soul in Christianity.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:46.98,0:41:52.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> The German philosopher Nietzsche called Christianity "Plato for the people."
Dialogue: 0,0:41:52.20,0:42:04.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Poet Percy Bysshe Shelley called Plato one of his gods. Even Arthur Conan Doyle,
Dialogue: 0,0:42:04.28,0:42:10.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,creator of Sherlock Holmes, pays tribute when Dr. Watson quotes Plato to
Dialogue: 0,0:42:10.42,0:42:13.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,describe his detective friend as, "The best and wisest man I have ever known.".
Dialogue: 0,0:42:13.89,0:42:16.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Allow me to congratulate you on a brilliant bit of deduction.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:14.63,0:42:21.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ Music ]
Dialogue: 0,0:42:21.45,0:42:25.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Plato never gave up searching for the truth, and one must never let it be
Dialogue: 0,0:42:25.37,0:42:31.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,said that his views were impervious to experience. His one venture into politics
Dialogue: 0,0:42:31.65,0:42:36.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was on the island of Sicily, where he had hoped to turn the young ruler into a
Dialogue: 0,0:42:36.15,0:42:40.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,flesh-and-blood philosopher king. His pupil, however, soon grew bored with the
Dialogue: 0,0:42:40.31,0:42:46.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,experiment and tried to sell Plato into slavery. After barely escaping with his
Dialogue: 0,0:42:46.99,0:42:52.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,life, Plato felt compelled to create a somewhat more user-friendly utopia. The
Dialogue: 0,0:42:52.99,0:42:55.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,poets still are banished, but the philosopher kings have been replaced by the
Dialogue: 0,0:42:55.81,0:43:03.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,vote and a set of laws. Plato died shortly after finishing The Laws at the age
Dialogue: 0,0:43:03.77,0:43:09.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of 80. His biographer reported he had passed to that city state which he planned
Dialogue: 0,0:43:09.73,0:43:12.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for himself and planted in the sky. Many centuries later, philosopher Alfred
Dialogue: 0,0:43:13.02,0:43:16.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Whitehead concluded that everything is just a footnote to Plato.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:16.14,0:43:26.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ Music ]
Dialogue: 0,0:43:26.32,0:43:31.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> "He imagines that he is a master in dishonesty, able to take every crooked
Dialogue: 0,0:43:31.08,0:43:36.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,turn wriggle into and out of every hole, bending like a withy and getting out of
Dialogue: 0,0:43:36.12,0:43:40.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the way of justice, and all for what? In order to gain small points not worth
Dialogue: 0,0:43:40.76,0:43:45.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,mentioning." He's talking about the life-long litigant, ladies and gentlemen.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:45.59,0:43:49.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Twenty-seven-hundred years ago the lawyers of the judges were already driving
Dialogue: 0,0:43:49.39,0:43:51.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Greek society and saying, okay.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:51.63,0:43:55.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> I think one of the most compelling moments in the history of Western thought
Dialogue: 0,0:43:55.95,0:43:59.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is in this book, and I will never forget it. I still get goosebumps thinking
Dialogue: 0,0:43:59.71,0:44:05.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about it, which is the challenge of the Ring of Gyges. If you had this ring, and
Dialogue: 0,0:44:05.32,0:44:08.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's the story and here, and you turned the bezel of the ring, and you became
Dialogue: 0,0:44:08.90,0:44:13.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,invisible, and you could get away with anything by being invisible, would you do
Dialogue: 0,0:44:13.84,0:44:14.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it?
Dialogue: 0,0:44:14.84,0:44:19.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> What Plato wants to prove in The Republic is that that's wrong. That in fact,
Dialogue: 0,0:44:19.65,0:44:25.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even with a ring that made you invisible, even apart from what other people
Dialogue: 0,0:44:25.13,0:44:31.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,think, it's good to be good. The question is whether he succeeds in proving what
Dialogue: 0,0:44:31.07,0:44:35.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,others might want him to prove or expect him to prove. The course of The
Dialogue: 0,0:44:35.72,0:44:43.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Republic, he redefines goodness. Plato tells us that virtue is internal to a
Dialogue: 0,0:44:43.03,0:44:48.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,person. That is the harmony of the soul.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:48.06,0:44:52.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> People leave the dialogue differently from when they start. You are a changed
Dialogue: 0,0:44:52.90,0:44:58.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,person, in some ways, by encountering this man who truly means what he says.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:58.02,0:45:02.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is not just highfalutin bull session. This is about life and how you leave
Dialogue: 0,0:45:02.44,0:45:07.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it, how you live it, how you leave it, and the conditions under which it should
Dialogue: 0,0:45:07.10,0:45:09.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,be lived. This is about the real stuff.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:09.11,0:45:15.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> You see, most of us, when we think, usually we're in trouble, and we think to
Dialogue: 0,0:45:15.10,0:45:20.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,get out of trouble. What Plato tries to convey there is thinking can be a feast
Dialogue: 0,0:45:20.42,0:45:26.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and a frenzy, and that philosophy is that thinking as a feast.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:26.38,0:45:34.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> "The wonder," Plato says, "is the beginning of philosophy." We still wonder
Dialogue: 0,0:45:34.49,0:45:48.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about the same questions he set down all those centuries ago, searching for
Dialogue: 0,0:45:48.14,0:45:52.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,wisdom and justice and finding an imperfect approximation, struggling between
Dialogue: 0,0:45:52.38,0:45:53.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,reality and illusion, reason and passion, politics and philosophy, public and
Dialogue: 0,0:45:53.38,0:45:55.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,private, body and soul. And probably, we always will be.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:55.63,0:46:16.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ Music ]
Dialogue: 0,0:46:17.01,0:46:21.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Behind every great book, there's a great story in it. Now sit back and spend
Dialogue: 0,0:46:21.10,0:46:25.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,an hour with the best reading experience you'll ever have on television. The
Dialogue: 0,0:46:25.12,0:46:27.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Great Books Festival continues on TLC, adventures for your mind.