[Script Info]
Title: 
[Events]
Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,0:00:01.33,0:00:04.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Good afternoon again\Nand welcome to GW.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:04.87,0:00:08.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My name is David Dolling and\NI'm the Dean of the School
Dialogue: 0,0:00:08.34,0:00:10.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of Engineering and\NApplied Science here
Dialogue: 0,0:00:10.54,0:00:13.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the George Washington\NUniversity.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:13.38,0:00:16.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't think it would\Nbe news to anybody
Dialogue: 0,0:00:16.42,0:00:19.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that there's been a lot of\Ndocuments out there recently
Dialogue: 0,0:00:19.72,0:00:21.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with respect to cyber security.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:21.52,0:00:25.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We've seen the White\NHouse's executive order aimed
Dialogue: 0,0:00:25.02,0:00:27.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at protecting our\Ncritical infrastructure.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:27.96,0:00:31.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We've seen a report from the\NSecurity Company Mandiant
Dialogue: 0,0:00:31.46,0:00:34.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that exposed a Chinese\Nmilitary hacking group.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:34.73,0:00:37.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And very much in the news\Nnow although it's faded
Dialogue: 0,0:00:37.90,0:00:41.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,after the press conference\Nyesterday afternoon have been
Dialogue: 0,0:00:41.54,0:00:44.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,documents related\Nto NSA's prison
Dialogue: 0,0:00:44.81,0:00:47.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and telephone surveillance\Nprograms.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:47.81,0:00:49.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well today, we are\Nvery fortunate
Dialogue: 0,0:00:49.85,0:00:51.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that have several\Nexperts with us
Dialogue: 0,0:00:51.68,0:00:55.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to discuss their various\Nview points on surveillance
Dialogue: 0,0:00:55.72,0:00:59.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on cyber security and the\Nfuture of the internet.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:59.29,0:01:04.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As we try to be secure\Nwhile protecting privacy,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:04.06,0:01:08.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we do need to be guided by\Nknowledge from many disciplines
Dialogue: 0,0:01:08.53,0:01:12.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and in fact, this was stated\Nquite explicitly last December
Dialogue: 0,0:01:12.24,0:01:16.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the launch of the GW\NCyber Security Initiative.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:16.31,0:01:18.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The initiative's chairman,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:18.21,0:01:22.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,former DHS Secretary Michael\NChertoff spoke of the need
Dialogue: 0,0:01:22.58,0:01:26.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for university's\Nlike ours and others
Dialogue: 0,0:01:26.38,0:01:29.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to give students an\Nunderstanding of the triad
Dialogue: 0,0:01:29.62,0:01:33.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of technology, business\Npolicy and how they interact
Dialogue: 0,0:01:33.73,0:01:37.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to create difficult cyber\Nsecurity challenges.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:37.90,0:01:41.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,While I'm on the podium here,\NI'd like to just take advantage
Dialogue: 0,0:01:41.07,0:01:44.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of a captive audience because I\Nknow you all too polite to cheer
Dialogue: 0,0:01:44.84,0:01:49.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or get up and move out to say\Na few things about the School
Dialogue: 0,0:01:49.34,0:01:51.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of Engineering and\NApplied Science here at GW
Dialogue: 0,0:01:51.91,0:01:55.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is a very thriving\Nand growing enterprise.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:55.88,0:01:58.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Our Department of\NComputer Science
Dialogue: 0,0:01:58.48,0:02:01.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in fact anticipated\NSecretary Chertoff's remarks
Dialogue: 0,0:02:01.95,0:02:05.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by launching last fall\Nthe Master of Science
Dialogue: 0,0:02:05.72,0:02:09.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in Cyber security in our\NComputer Science Department.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:09.73,0:02:10.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's the first program
Dialogue: 0,0:02:10.93,0:02:14.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in Washington DC designed\Nspecifically to respond
Dialogue: 0,0:02:14.37,0:02:16.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the large and\Nfast growing need
Dialogue: 0,0:02:16.94,0:02:20.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for technical cyber\Nsecurity experts locally,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:20.57,0:02:24.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,nationally, and internationally.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:24.31,0:02:28.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Underscoring our commitment\Nhere to cyber security education
Dialogue: 0,0:02:28.98,0:02:32.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and public service, our NSF
Dialogue: 0,0:02:32.22,0:02:36.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and DHS sponsored CyberCorps\Nscholarship programs.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:36.49,0:02:39.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,These programs fund students who\Nare going to be future leaders
Dialogue: 0,0:02:39.92,0:02:42.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the federal government\Non cyber security
Dialogue: 0,0:02:42.100,0:02:46.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and indeed some of\Nthem already are.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:46.13,0:02:49.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Each week, the CyberCorps\Nstudents meet in class often
Dialogue: 0,0:02:49.67,0:02:52.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with current or former\Nfederal employees as well
Dialogue: 0,0:02:52.67,0:02:54.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as industry experts to learn
Dialogue: 0,0:02:54.81,0:02:58.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about the major cyber security\Nissues so they're prepared
Dialogue: 0,0:02:58.51,0:03:00.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to meet the challenges that\Nwill certainly great them
Dialogue: 0,0:03:00.98,0:03:04.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,after they graduate\Nhere and take jobs.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:04.18,0:03:06.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This course which was\Npreviously only available
Dialogue: 0,0:03:06.88,0:03:11.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to CyberCorps students is now\Navailable to all GW students
Dialogue: 0,0:03:11.42,0:03:14.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as a hybrid cause\Nconducted mostly online
Dialogue: 0,0:03:14.76,0:03:15.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the short intensive
Dialogue: 0,0:03:15.96,0:03:18.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in person learning\Nexperience or the beginning.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:18.90,0:03:22.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Starting next year,\Nsome doctor or students
Dialogue: 0,0:03:22.64,0:03:24.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the graduate school\Nof education
Dialogue: 0,0:03:24.34,0:03:27.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and human development\Nhere at GW on human
Dialogue: 0,0:03:27.41,0:03:31.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and organizational learning\Nwill also be taking this class a
Dialogue: 0,0:03:31.24,0:03:34.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,required part of their\Ncyber security focus.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:34.65,0:03:37.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, let me say that\Ntoday's event which looks
Dialogue: 0,0:03:37.05,0:03:39.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to be very well populated\Nand looks like it's going
Dialogue: 0,0:03:39.22,0:03:41.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to be very interesting\Nis sponsored
Dialogue: 0,0:03:41.55,0:03:44.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by the cyber security policy\Nin research institute.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:44.89,0:03:48.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We abbreviate that around\Nhere to CSPRI of the School
Dialogue: 0,0:03:48.23,0:03:50.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of Engineering and\NApplied Science.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:50.40,0:03:54.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In addition to overseeing\Nthe CyberCorps program,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:54.17,0:03:58.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it facilitates and execute\Ninto disciplinary research
Dialogue: 0,0:03:58.34,0:04:01.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in education in cyber\Nsecurity across GW.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:01.74,0:04:04.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One example of this is its\Nwork with the graduate school
Dialogue: 0,0:04:04.81,0:04:07.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of education in human\Ndevelopment supporting the
Dialogue: 0,0:04:07.68,0:04:10.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,national cyber watch\Ncenter in a joint project
Dialogue: 0,0:04:10.98,0:04:14.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to develop the nation\Ncyber security workforce.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:14.69,0:04:16.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,More information on that program
Dialogue: 0,0:04:16.92,0:04:20.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on CSPRI Cyber Security\NScholarships and School
Dialogue: 0,0:04:20.53,0:04:22.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of Engineering and Applied\NScience can be found
Dialogue: 0,0:04:22.59,0:04:26.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the material available\Nthe registration desk.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:26.100,0:04:29.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We're happy to have\Nas a cosponsor
Dialogue: 0,0:04:29.37,0:04:34.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of this event today the internet\Nsociety and it's my pleasure
Dialogue: 0,0:04:34.47,0:04:37.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to now introduced Paul\NBrigner, Regional Director
Dialogue: 0,0:04:37.21,0:04:41.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the North American Bureau at\Nthe Internet Society to come up
Dialogue: 0,0:04:41.68,0:04:44.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and tell you a few\Nwords about it
Dialogue: 0,0:04:44.12,0:04:46.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and its role and\Nin today's event.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:46.62,0:04:49.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, on behalf of GW, the\NSchool of Engineering
Dialogue: 0,0:04:49.49,0:04:51.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and Applied Science,\NCSPRI and the Department
Dialogue: 0,0:04:51.66,0:04:54.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Of Computer Science,\Nwelcome to GW
Dialogue: 0,0:04:54.16,0:04:56.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I hope you have\Na great afternoon.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:56.06,0:04:57.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:57.53,0:05:00.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ Applause ]
Dialogue: 0,0:05:00.97,0:05:10.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ Pause ]
Dialogue: 0,0:05:11.04,0:05:12.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Thank you Dr.\NDolling and thank you
Dialogue: 0,0:05:12.64,0:05:15.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the George Washington\NCyber Security Policy
Dialogue: 0,0:05:15.51,0:05:17.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And Research Institute\Nfor partnering
Dialogue: 0,0:05:17.25,0:05:18.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with us on this event today.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:18.88,0:05:22.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And thanks to all of\Nyou for joining us
Dialogue: 0,0:05:22.19,0:05:25.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that means not everyone here\Nin the room but also to those
Dialogue: 0,0:05:25.92,0:05:28.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who are at a remote\Nhub in New York City.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:28.76,0:05:30.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That remote hub is\Nbeing sponsored
Dialogue: 0,0:05:30.06,0:05:32.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by the internet societies\NNew York chapter.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:32.36,0:05:33.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I know we don't have\Na good view of them
Dialogue: 0,0:05:33.93,0:05:35.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the camera right\Nnow but what's going
Dialogue: 0,0:05:35.97,0:05:37.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to happen is they\Nwill walk up to
Dialogue: 0,0:05:37.50,0:05:40.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that camera and ask questions.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:40.24,0:05:42.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And by the way, they've\Nbeen meeting
Dialogue: 0,0:05:42.51,0:05:44.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on this topic already\Nthis morning.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:44.28,0:05:46.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They've had their\Nown meetings today,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:46.04,0:05:49.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so maybe that gives you an idea\Nof how passionate that group
Dialogue: 0,0:05:49.31,0:05:52.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of individual is about\Nthe topics we will be
Dialogue: 0,0:05:52.05,0:05:53.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,discussing though.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:53.42,0:05:56.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, thank you to the New York\Nchapter for getting together
Dialogue: 0,0:05:56.22,0:05:59.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to join us as remote hub.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:59.42,0:06:01.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And definitely, thank you\Nto all those on live stream.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:01.79,0:06:04.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have a very good crowd\Nalready gathering on live stream
Dialogue: 0,0:06:04.30,0:06:08.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to watch us from\Nall over the world.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:08.63,0:06:11.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My first order of business today\Nis makes sure that you're aware
Dialogue: 0,0:06:11.57,0:06:12.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the internet society.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:12.97,0:06:15.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If this is the first time you're\Njoining from one of our events,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:15.97,0:06:19.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we are a global nonprofit\Ncost driven organization
Dialogue: 0,0:06:19.01,0:06:21.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with a very straight\Nforward vision.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:21.01,0:06:24.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is the internet\Nis for everyone.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:24.38,0:06:26.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We work to achieve that vision
Dialogue: 0,0:06:26.62,0:06:29.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by promoting the open\Ndevelopment evolution and use
Dialogue: 0,0:06:29.29,0:06:30.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the internet for the benefit
Dialogue: 0,0:06:30.29,0:06:32.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of tall people throughout\Nthe world.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:32.66,0:06:36.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Some of our key functions\Ninvolve facilitating the open
Dialogue: 0,0:06:36.63,0:06:39.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,development of standards,\Nprotocols, administration
Dialogue: 0,0:06:39.66,0:06:42.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and a technical infrastructure\Nof the internet.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:42.77,0:06:47.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Supporting internet education\Nin developing countries.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:47.04,0:06:49.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Promoting professional\Ndevelopment in community meeting
Dialogue: 0,0:06:49.78,0:06:52.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to faster greater\Nparticipation and leadership
Dialogue: 0,0:06:52.58,0:06:55.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in areas important to the\Nevolution of the internet
Dialogue: 0,0:06:55.55,0:06:58.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and fostering an environment\Nfor international cooperation,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:58.65,0:06:59.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,community and a culture
Dialogue: 0,0:06:59.95,0:07:03.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that enables internet\Nself governance.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:03.59,0:07:07.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, I saw staff lead specific\Nprojects on these topics.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:07.29,0:07:09.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Much of our work is achieved\Nthrough the work of our members
Dialogue: 0,0:07:09.76,0:07:12.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and chapters around the world.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:12.36,0:07:14.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And speaking of chapters,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:14.30,0:07:16.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I would like to give\Nspecial recognition
Dialogue: 0,0:07:16.03,0:07:18.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the local DC chapter.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:18.60,0:07:21.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I am very fortunate that our\Nheadquarters is just not far
Dialogue: 0,0:07:21.44,0:07:24.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,away in western Virginia so\NI'm able to interact personally
Dialogue: 0,0:07:24.68,0:07:27.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with our DC chapter\Non a regular basis.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:27.51,0:07:28.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I can attest to the fact
Dialogue: 0,0:07:28.75,0:07:30.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that they are really a\Nfirst class group of people
Dialogue: 0,0:07:30.72,0:07:34.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that regularly hold very\Ninteresting meetings related
Dialogue: 0,0:07:34.39,0:07:36.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the internet societies\Nmission.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:36.49,0:07:38.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, if you're a local\Nand you're not involve,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:38.72,0:07:41.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you're really missing out, I\Ndo hope you will get involved.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:41.69,0:07:44.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And if the leaders who are here
Dialogue: 0,0:07:44.13,0:07:47.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from the internet society DC\Nchapter would stand briefly,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:47.43,0:07:50.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I just want to make sure\Nthat you're recognized.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:51.07,0:07:52.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, great.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:52.57,0:07:54.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, you know who they are.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:54.07,0:07:55.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Please make a special\Neffort to talk
Dialogue: 0,0:07:55.91,0:07:57.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to them today during\Nthis event if you'd
Dialogue: 0,0:07:57.41,0:07:59.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like to get involve\Nwith the chapter.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:59.51,0:08:03.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ Pause ]
Dialogue: 0,0:08:03.18,0:08:06.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One of my key functions\Nat the internet society is
Dialogue: 0,0:08:06.38,0:08:08.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to work closely with our\Nchapters in the region not only
Dialogue: 0,0:08:08.59,0:08:12.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to plan iNET events like this\Nbut to assist with their events
Dialogue: 0,0:08:12.32,0:08:16.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and to have an open\Ndialogue on policy issues.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:16.70,0:08:19.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That dialogue in turn\Nhelps me and my colleagues
Dialogue: 0,0:08:19.20,0:08:22.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the internet society to form\Nour policy positions and help
Dialogue: 0,0:08:22.50,0:08:24.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to set the agenda for\Nour regional meetings
Dialogue: 0,0:08:24.50,0:08:26.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like the one we are\Nattending today
Dialogue: 0,0:08:26.64,0:08:29.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that brings me\Nto today's agenda.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:29.34,0:08:31.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The topic of this iNET\Nhas really been driven
Dialogue: 0,0:08:31.74,0:08:33.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by the interest of our members
Dialogue: 0,0:08:33.28,0:08:36.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the North American\Nregion and around the world.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:36.35,0:08:39.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It so happens today that one of\Nour panelist is the President
Dialogue: 0,0:08:39.92,0:08:41.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and Chief Executive Officer
Dialogue: 0,0:08:41.19,0:08:44.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the internet society\Nthat's Lynn St. Amour.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:44.62,0:08:46.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, she will have\Nthe opportunity
Dialogue: 0,0:08:46.66,0:08:50.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to address the concerns\Nof our constituency today.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:50.26,0:08:53.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, without further delay,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:53.06,0:08:56.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I would like to introduce\NProfessors Lance Hoffman.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:56.13,0:09:00.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He is the Director of the Cyber\NSecurity Research and Policy--
Dialogue: 0,0:09:00.77,0:09:02.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm sorry, the Cyber\NSecurity Policy
Dialogue: 0,0:09:02.77,0:09:06.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and Research Institute here at\NGeorge Washington University.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:06.04,0:09:10.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I first met Professor Hoffman\Nwhen he sponsored a debate
Dialogue: 0,0:09:10.32,0:09:14.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on PIPA and SOPA and\NI knew that he was,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:14.29,0:09:16.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,based on that experience, I\Nknew that he was game to talk
Dialogue: 0,0:09:16.92,0:09:19.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about some very controversial\Ntopics.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:19.36,0:09:21.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, I guessed right, he\Nwas interested in talking
Dialogue: 0,0:09:21.93,0:09:24.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about this one as well and\Nit's been really a pleasure
Dialogue: 0,0:09:24.60,0:09:26.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to partner with him\Non this event.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:26.20,0:09:30.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, I want to sincerely\Nthank you for that.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:30.27,0:09:32.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's really been a\Ngreat experience.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:32.17,0:09:35.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'd also like to thank all\Nof our fantastic panelist
Dialogue: 0,0:09:35.17,0:09:36.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who have agreed to\Nspeak here today.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:36.64,0:09:38.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We really have an all\Nstar group of people
Dialogue: 0,0:09:38.81,0:09:41.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who have taken their time out\Nto share their views with you.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:41.51,0:09:44.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'd like them all to come up\Nand take their sits on stage now
Dialogue: 0,0:09:44.78,0:09:47.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if they would and I\Nwill turn this event
Dialogue: 0,0:09:47.15,0:09:48.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,over to Professor Hoffman.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:48.99,0:09:53.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One thing I forgot to mention\Nis that if you want to Twitter
Dialogue: 0,0:09:53.32,0:09:54.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or tweet about this event,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:54.56,0:09:59.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,please use the hashtag\NiNET DC, iNET DC.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:59.16,0:10:01.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you all over much.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:01.50,0:10:07.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ Applause ]
Dialogue: 0,0:10:07.00,0:10:16.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ Noise ]
Dialogue: 0,0:10:18.52,0:10:27.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ Inaudible Discussion ]
Dialogue: 0,0:10:35.87,0:10:37.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Good afternoon everybody.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:37.27,0:10:43.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Let me add my welcome to that of\NDean Dolling and to Paul Brigner
Dialogue: 0,0:10:43.38,0:10:46.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and let me also thank the\Ninternet society, our cosponsor
Dialogue: 0,0:10:46.18,0:10:48.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for this event for\Ntheir programmatic
Dialogue: 0,0:10:48.45,0:10:51.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and financial assistance\Nin making it possible.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:51.05,0:10:55.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I also want to thank from\NCSPRI, my Associate Director,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:55.75,0:10:59.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Dr. Costis Toregas and our\Nintern and research assistance
Dialogue: 0,0:10:59.46,0:11:02.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who have worked on this and are\Nhelping here today tray hair
Dialogue: 0,0:11:02.69,0:11:03.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[phonetic] Dustin\NBenanberg [assumed spelling],
Dialogue: 0,0:11:03.93,0:11:04.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Jaime Moore [assumed spelling],
Dialogue: 0,0:11:04.90,0:11:06.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and Greg Ziegler\N[assumed spelling].
Dialogue: 0,0:11:06.70,0:11:11.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My role today is to set the\Nstage for our excellent panel
Dialogue: 0,0:11:11.07,0:11:14.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and into moderate that panel\Ndiscussion on cyber security
Dialogue: 0,0:11:14.41,0:11:17.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the future of the internet\Ngiven the recent revelations
Dialogue: 0,0:11:17.98,0:11:20.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about prism and other\Nsurveillance programs.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:20.81,0:11:23.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The panelist of each degree\Nto summarize their thoughts
Dialogue: 0,0:11:23.92,0:11:26.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in a four minute statements\Nso we could have lots of time
Dialogue: 0,0:11:26.95,0:11:29.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for questions from the\Naudience including the audience
Dialogue: 0,0:11:29.96,0:11:31.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in cyber space.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:31.59,0:11:36.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,After the audience question and\Nanswer session in a short break,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:36.23,0:11:39.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,participants will return for\Na very interesting session
Dialogue: 0,0:11:39.03,0:11:42.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,around table discussion where\Nwe will see their world views
Dialogue: 0,0:11:42.67,0:11:45.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on this, where there\Nworld views agree,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:45.17,0:11:50.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and where there are tensions and\Ntalk about this in a round table
Dialogue: 0,0:11:50.54,0:11:52.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which will be informed by\Ntheir previous statements
Dialogue: 0,0:11:52.48,0:11:54.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the audience\Nquestions before hand.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:54.98,0:11:57.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm delighted that\Nfor this event,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:57.22,0:12:00.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we will have an experience\Nmoderator Professor Steve
Dialogue: 0,0:12:00.32,0:12:03.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Roberts leading the\Nround table discussion.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:03.12,0:12:06.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Many of the students and\Nfaculty here may recognize Steve
Dialogue: 0,0:12:06.12,0:12:07.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as the superior professor\Nof media
Dialogue: 0,0:12:07.66,0:12:10.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and public affairs here at GW.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:10.53,0:12:12.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But others including\Nthose viewing on this
Dialogue: 0,0:12:12.100,0:12:15.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the internet maybe\Nmore familiar with him
Dialogue: 0,0:12:15.27,0:12:17.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from his appearances\Nas a commentator
Dialogue: 0,0:12:17.00,0:12:19.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on many Washington\Nbased television shows,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:19.67,0:12:22.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as a political analyst\Non the ABC radio network,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:22.71,0:12:26.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and as a substitute host\Non NPR Diane Rehm Show.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:26.31,0:12:29.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Another rule where he-- this\Nis material from experts
Dialogue: 0,0:12:29.51,0:12:33.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and clarifies it to facilitate\Ninformed public discussion.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:33.78,0:12:36.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But before the round table,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:36.09,0:12:38.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,let me identify the\Nparticipants on stage.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:38.06,0:12:40.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We will not have lengthy\Nintroductions here
Dialogue: 0,0:12:40.79,0:12:44.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,since their bio sketches have\Nbeen made available to you
Dialogue: 0,0:12:44.33,0:12:48.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the brochure which you\Nhave gotten or can get
Dialogue: 0,0:12:48.70,0:12:50.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the registration desk.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:50.70,0:12:55.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But anyway, let me\Nintroduce very briefly
Dialogue: 0,0:12:55.84,0:12:59.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you see their name\Ntags in front of you,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:59.41,0:13:02.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Danny Weitzner is the\NDirector and Cofounder
Dialogue: 0,0:13:02.48,0:13:04.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the MIT Computer Science
Dialogue: 0,0:13:04.22,0:13:07.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and Artificial Intelligence\NLaboratory.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:07.25,0:13:10.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Not the whole lab.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:10.26,0:13:13.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Not the whole lab?
Dialogue: 0,0:13:13.02,0:13:15.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> I'll explain.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:15.26,0:13:18.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> OK. Lynn St. Amour\Nis the President and CEO
Dialogue: 0,0:13:18.43,0:13:20.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the Internet Society.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:20.43,0:13:23.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Let's see, who's next.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:23.34,0:13:25.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Laura, Laura DeNardis\Nis professor of School
Dialogue: 0,0:13:25.60,0:13:28.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of Communication at\NAmerican University.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:28.57,0:13:32.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Melissa Hathaway is President of\Nthe Hathaway Global Strategies.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:32.61,0:13:33.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Let's see.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:33.91,0:13:35.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Who's down there?
Dialogue: 0,0:13:35.75,0:13:38.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't have you on my list.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:38.18,0:13:39.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Oh no.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:39.62,0:13:40.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> I apologize.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:40.89,0:13:42.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> That would me.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:42.02,0:13:43.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Oh Randy, of course.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:43.09,0:13:45.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Randy from-- I don't have here.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:45.76,0:13:47.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, OK.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:47.83,0:13:50.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Randy-- where are you from?
Dialogue: 0,0:13:50.30,0:13:51.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'll let you introduce yourself.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:51.36,0:13:51.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm sorry.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:51.100,0:13:53.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Inaudible Remark]
Dialogue: 0,0:13:53.10,0:13:53.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> I'm the University\NIT Security Officer
Dialogue: 0,0:13:53.100,0:13:54.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at Virginia Tech.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:54.93,0:13:56.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> I didn't want\Nit to get it wrong
Dialogue: 0,0:13:56.13,0:13:58.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and say something\Nwrong-- wrong university.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:58.27,0:13:59.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Sorry Randy.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:59.64,0:14:01.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OK, let's see.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:01.57,0:14:04.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Leslie Harris is from Center\Nfor Democracy and Technology.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:04.81,0:14:07.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And last but not the least,\NJohn Curran, President and CEO
Dialogue: 0,0:14:07.51,0:14:10.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of American Registry\Nfor Internet Numbers.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:10.62,0:14:15.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OK, so without further ado, I am\Ngoing to suggest to be each go
Dialogue: 0,0:14:15.69,0:14:19.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,down the-- I have to\Ndecide, I'm going to leave it
Dialogue: 0,0:14:19.26,0:14:24.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to I guess either Danny or\NJohn on who wants to go first.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:24.90,0:14:25.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> No, no, no.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:25.40,0:14:25.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Go ahead.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:25.83,0:14:26.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> John?
Dialogue: 0,0:14:26.26,0:14:26.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> OK.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:26.70,0:14:27.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> OK?
Dialogue: 0,0:14:27.33,0:14:28.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> OK John, go on.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:28.33,0:14:29.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Four minutes please.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:29.13,0:14:30.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Well, thank you.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:30.47,0:14:33.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm happy to be here and I\Nwant to thank the opportunity
Dialogue: 0,0:14:33.47,0:14:35.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to present at this panel.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:35.61,0:14:38.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Keeping my remark short,\NI will say that we're
Dialogue: 0,0:14:38.61,0:14:43.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in an interesting period of\Ntime with respect to the future
Dialogue: 0,0:14:43.08,0:14:46.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the internet and\Nhow it's governed.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:46.15,0:14:49.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People may not realize\Nit but the fact is,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:49.35,0:14:52.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there is a coordination\Nfunction that's existed
Dialogue: 0,0:14:52.42,0:14:55.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,since the earliest days of the\Ninternet which is necessary
Dialogue: 0,0:14:55.99,0:14:58.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so that we can actually\Nuse the internet
Dialogue: 0,0:14:58.56,0:15:00.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so that it actually functions.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:00.26,0:15:01.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For example, computers
Dialogue: 0,0:15:01.80,0:15:04.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the internet have\Nunique identifiers.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:04.77,0:15:07.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Several, actually, one of\Nthem is the IP addresses
Dialogue: 0,0:15:07.50,0:15:08.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is part of what\NAaron [assumed spelling] is
Dialogue: 0,0:15:08.77,0:15:10.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,involved in.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:10.01,0:15:12.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We can't have computers\Nusing the same IP addresses.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:12.88,0:15:15.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Every computer needs\Nits own IP address.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:15.31,0:15:18.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Likewise, there's coordination\Nof things like domain names
Dialogue: 0,0:15:18.58,0:15:20.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to make sure that a\Ndomain name is a sign
Dialogue: 0,0:15:20.38,0:15:23.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to one organization,\Net cetera, et cetera.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:23.15,0:15:25.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is called technical\Ncoordination
Dialogue: 0,0:15:25.72,0:15:29.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it's been a function of the\Ninternet, necessary function
Dialogue: 0,0:15:29.59,0:15:32.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for the protocols\Nto work as designed
Dialogue: 0,0:15:32.36,0:15:33.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,since the very beginning.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:33.86,0:15:36.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People may not realize that\Nthis use to all be done
Dialogue: 0,0:15:36.63,0:15:41.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by one gentlemen, Dr. Jon Postel\Nwho we no longer have with us
Dialogue: 0,0:15:41.64,0:15:43.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but was an amazing individual.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:43.54,0:15:46.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And in the late '90s, we\Nactually went about setting
Dialogue: 0,0:15:46.88,0:15:51.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,up infrastructure to enable\Nthis technical coordination
Dialogue: 0,0:15:51.15,0:15:56.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so that IP addresses and\Ndomain names could be available
Dialogue: 0,0:15:56.05,0:15:59.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to everyone globally for\Ntheir use on the internet
Dialogue: 0,0:15:59.66,0:16:02.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but coordinated so that\Nthey actually interoperated
Dialogue: 0,0:16:02.29,0:16:05.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so that they work as expected.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:05.76,0:16:08.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This structure involves\Na lot of organizations.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:08.27,0:16:11.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Aaron is one, there're five\Nregional registries throughout
Dialogue: 0,0:16:11.50,0:16:12.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the globe.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:12.90,0:16:15.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Aaron is the one that handles\NNorth America, so with Canada,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:15.37,0:16:17.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the United States and about\Nhalf of the Caribbean.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:17.74,0:16:20.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Though there are four\Nother regional registries
Dialogue: 0,0:16:20.31,0:16:22.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then there is the DNS\Ncoordination that goes
Dialogue: 0,0:16:22.91,0:16:25.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on through organizations\Nsuch as ICANN.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:25.78,0:16:27.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The international\Ncoo-- [laughs].
Dialogue: 0,0:16:27.42,0:16:32.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Sorry. International--\N[Noise] --
Dialogue: 0,0:16:32.42,0:16:34.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Organization for assigned\NNames and Numbers.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:34.83,0:16:39.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, the fact is that these\Nbodies all work doing technical
Dialogue: 0,0:16:39.06,0:16:41.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,coordination is very important.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:41.40,0:16:46.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But, they've been doing it based\Non a historical trajectory.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:46.44,0:16:49.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A trajectory that originated\Nwith projects and programs
Dialogue: 0,0:16:49.87,0:16:51.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,out of the US government\Nwhich have
Dialogue: 0,0:16:51.64,0:16:55.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,since been increasingly\Nmoved out to independence
Dialogue: 0,0:16:55.35,0:16:56.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but were not quite there yet.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:56.75,0:17:02.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In fact, some of you maybe aware\Nthat these organizations were
Dialogue: 0,0:17:02.79,0:17:07.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,under supervision somewhat\Nindirect but still supervision
Dialogue: 0,0:17:07.96,0:17:12.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of program such as NTIA in\Nthe department of commerce.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:12.56,0:17:16.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so, one of the things that\Nwe now find ourselves facing is
Dialogue: 0,0:17:16.50,0:17:19.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that there is a unique\Nrole in the US government
Dialogue: 0,0:17:19.77,0:17:21.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with respect to the internet.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:21.37,0:17:26.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And this unique role is one that\Nis based on-- it's experienced.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:26.34,0:17:29.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's a steady hand,\Nbehind the scenes,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:29.58,0:17:31.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,helping the internet\Nmature and grow.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:31.45,0:17:35.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Recently however, we've now\Nseen that there's another hand
Dialogue: 0,0:17:35.49,0:17:37.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that maybe busy doing\Nother things
Dialogue: 0,0:17:37.46,0:17:41.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,such as surveillance\Nin cyber security.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:41.33,0:17:44.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so, the question that comes\Nup is how do we reconcile those?
Dialogue: 0,0:17:44.66,0:17:50.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How do we reconcile an open\Nglobal transparent internet run
Dialogue: 0,0:17:50.54,0:17:53.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for everyone with\Nthe possibility
Dialogue: 0,0:17:53.80,0:17:58.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that there is also surveillance\Ngoing on and other things
Dialogue: 0,0:17:58.31,0:18:00.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that may not meet\Nthe expectations
Dialogue: 0,0:18:00.58,0:18:02.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of global internet users.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:02.28,0:18:05.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so, this is the\Nchallenge in front of us.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:05.48,0:18:08.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's particularly\Nhighlighted because of the fact
Dialogue: 0,0:18:08.82,0:18:12.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the US governments\Nunique oversight role in this
Dialogue: 0,0:18:12.26,0:18:14.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it's brought\Nto the forefront
Dialogue: 0,0:18:14.16,0:18:19.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by the recent discussions where\Nwe now say that it is not simply
Dialogue: 0,0:18:19.60,0:18:21.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for the benefit of\Nall the internet,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:21.53,0:18:24.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but there's also some\Nnational priorities
Dialogue: 0,0:18:24.84,0:18:29.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and national initiatives that\Nthe US government also pursues
Dialogue: 0,0:18:29.04,0:18:30.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,over the same infrastructure.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:30.71,0:18:34.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think that's the challenge\Nthat we will now face more
Dialogue: 0,0:18:34.31,0:18:36.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so than ever in light\Nof the revelations
Dialogue: 0,0:18:36.48,0:18:40.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for the last few months and\Nthe net result would be a lot
Dialogue: 0,0:18:40.15,0:18:42.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the discussion in\Nforum such as this.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:42.09,0:18:43.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:43.52,0:18:44.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Thank you and I'll try
Dialogue: 0,0:18:44.62,0:18:46.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to make this iPhone\Nbehave a little better--
Dialogue: 0,0:18:46.72,0:18:47.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> OK.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:47.29,0:18:48.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Although--
Dialogue: 0,0:18:48.13,0:18:48.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> I thought I was over on time.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:48.96,0:18:50.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Yes.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:50.06,0:18:51.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> You were right on\Ntime, you were great.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:51.40,0:18:51.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> OK.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:51.90,0:18:52.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Leslie?
Dialogue: 0,0:18:52.60,0:18:55.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> It's time, I guess.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:55.10,0:18:58.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, I also want to get us out\Nof the DC bubble and the focus
Dialogue: 0,0:18:58.97,0:19:01.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the rights of people\Nin the United States.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:01.57,0:19:04.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I've been talking about\Nthat for the last six weeks.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:04.28,0:19:08.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And congresses about to\Nconsidering an amendment that's
Dialogue: 0,0:19:08.08,0:19:10.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,going to reign in\Nthe NSAs ability
Dialogue: 0,0:19:10.08,0:19:13.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to collect our metadata\Nfrom phones.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:13.45,0:19:16.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I want to pivot away from that\N'cause I think there're three
Dialogue: 0,0:19:16.29,0:19:19.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,other things that we ought\Nto be considering at least.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:19.32,0:19:23.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What-- and the reactions of\Ngovernments and internet users
Dialogue: 0,0:19:23.03,0:19:26.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,around the world and what this\Nmeans with the architecture,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:26.36,0:19:29.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not just the governance, the\Narchitecture of the internet
Dialogue: 0,0:19:29.30,0:19:31.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and also for the\Nprotection of human rights
Dialogue: 0,0:19:31.70,0:19:33.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of global internet\Nusers and that turns
Dialogue: 0,0:19:33.84,0:19:35.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,out to be a very\Nthorny question.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:35.67,0:19:37.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Certainly for governments,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:37.21,0:19:40.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think this entire kerfuffle\Nis reinforced the concerns
Dialogue: 0,0:19:40.54,0:19:44.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the global internet has\Nundermined their sovereignty
Dialogue: 0,0:19:44.12,0:19:46.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in control over their citizens.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:46.42,0:19:48.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's further\Nilluminated this sort
Dialogue: 0,0:19:48.59,0:19:52.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of privileged position\Nof the United States.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:52.56,0:19:54.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Certainly, with respect\Nto ICANN and some
Dialogue: 0,0:19:54.93,0:19:56.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the other critical resources,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:56.89,0:20:00.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we continue to have a\Ndisproportionate share
Dialogue: 0,0:20:00.20,0:20:03.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of internet traffic, all\Nthat's declining and obviously,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:03.07,0:20:06.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we have a dominance in our\Nglobal internet companies.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:06.10,0:20:10.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For some, and the EUs, I\Nthink I have a good example,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:10.61,0:20:12.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this illuminates\Nleft an inability
Dialogue: 0,0:20:12.94,0:20:15.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to protect the human\Nrights of their own citizens
Dialogue: 0,0:20:15.35,0:20:19.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we have a major fight coming\Nup in the data directive there
Dialogue: 0,0:20:19.75,0:20:21.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about whether they're\Ngoing to allow data to come
Dialogue: 0,0:20:21.79,0:20:24.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the United States at all.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:24.26,0:20:29.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,At the same time, it's an\Nextraordinary opportunity
Dialogue: 0,0:20:29.53,0:20:34.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for authoritarian governments\Nto exert more control
Dialogue: 0,0:20:34.26,0:20:38.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,over the people in data in their\Nown boarders and it's, you know,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:38.57,0:20:42.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,rushes now dusting of a\Nlegislation that has to do
Dialogue: 0,0:20:42.71,0:20:44.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with national servers.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:44.04,0:20:45.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You're going to see\Nthat elsewhere as well
Dialogue: 0,0:20:45.98,0:20:49.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I think it's fair to worry\Nwhether this carefully honed
Dialogue: 0,0:20:49.41,0:20:55.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,narrative as US narrative of the\Nwhy is trusted neutral stored
Dialogue: 0,0:20:55.39,0:20:58.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the internet can\Nreally hold and it's fair
Dialogue: 0,0:20:58.49,0:21:00.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to ask whether we're moving\Ntowards the balkanization
Dialogue: 0,0:21:00.99,0:21:04.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the internet as\Ngovernment sees these moment
Dialogue: 0,0:21:04.76,0:21:08.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to impost local server\Nrequirements or worse
Dialogue: 0,0:21:08.33,0:21:12.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we saw some of these\Nproposals last year.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:12.00,0:21:14.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I know we're supposed to be\Nacronym free at the wicked.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:14.87,0:21:17.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'll explain-- routing\Nrequirements
Dialogue: 0,0:21:17.98,0:21:21.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to either avoid the\NUnited States of literally
Dialogue: 0,0:21:21.65,0:21:23.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to direct the routing of traffic
Dialogue: 0,0:21:23.31,0:21:27.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the worst outcome\Nbeing literally ring fans
Dialogue: 0,0:21:27.25,0:21:30.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to national or regional\Nnetworks.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:30.25,0:21:33.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If I were in Latin America and\Nnotice that there was 80 percent
Dialogue: 0,0:21:33.29,0:21:36.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of my traffic still coming\Nfrom the United States,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:36.33,0:21:39.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I may start to wonder why\Nwe're still relying on Miami
Dialogue: 0,0:21:39.76,0:21:41.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to reach most of the world.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:41.13,0:21:44.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Some of that might be\Na weird salutary effect
Dialogue: 0,0:21:44.47,0:21:48.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we finally get internet\Nexchange points in some places
Dialogue: 0,0:21:48.27,0:21:50.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that have not had them.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:50.84,0:21:54.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I think governments becoming\Ninvolved directly in the rooting
Dialogue: 0,0:21:54.38,0:21:57.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of internet data would\Nopposed a profound challenge
Dialogue: 0,0:21:57.92,0:22:00.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the open end-to-end internet
Dialogue: 0,0:22:00.18,0:22:02.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I think all these things\Nare going to be on the table.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:02.92,0:22:06.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think you are also kind of\Nexpect to see a reexamination
Dialogue: 0,0:22:06.06,0:22:07.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the world's relationships
Dialogue: 0,0:22:07.59,0:22:10.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with our cloud providers,\Nalready seeing that.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:10.66,0:22:13.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, there's a Netherlands\Nprovider and no prism,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:13.20,0:22:15.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,no surveillance, no\Ngovernment backdoors.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:15.87,0:22:21.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And finally, I think we may have\Nlost some of the rapprochement
Dialogue: 0,0:22:21.94,0:22:25.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that happened in the governance\Nwars in the last year.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:25.74,0:22:29.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are number of important\Nforums and discussions coming
Dialogue: 0,0:22:29.31,0:22:31.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,up about various treaties
Dialogue: 0,0:22:31.08,0:22:33.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and how much various treaty\Nbuddies ought to be able
Dialogue: 0,0:22:33.58,0:22:36.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to impose their--
Dialogue: 0,0:22:36.15,0:22:39.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,post themselves into internet\Ndebates, I think we're going
Dialogue: 0,0:22:39.92,0:22:41.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to lose some ground there
Dialogue: 0,0:22:41.09,0:22:44.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it could be I\Nthink quite troubling.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:44.40,0:22:48.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Last point, global\Ninternet users are furious.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:48.93,0:22:51.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They believe their human\Nrights have been violated
Dialogue: 0,0:22:51.77,0:22:53.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I think they\Ndon't yet realize
Dialogue: 0,0:22:53.64,0:22:56.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that it's not entirely clear\Nwhether they have any recourse
Dialogue: 0,0:22:56.17,0:22:57.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for that.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:57.34,0:22:59.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's a lot of ambiguity\Nin human rights law.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:59.18,0:23:01.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Human rights law are\Npretty much applies,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:01.48,0:23:04.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if countries make commitments\Nto protect the human rights
Dialogue: 0,0:23:04.58,0:23:06.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of people within their\Nboarders or their control,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:06.95,0:23:10.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't think we began to\Nunderstand or have any clarity
Dialogue: 0,0:23:10.19,0:23:13.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on how-- who's responsible\Nfor human rights
Dialogue: 0,0:23:13.12,0:23:15.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where there's non-physical\Naction
Dialogue: 0,0:23:15.16,0:23:17.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,such as electronic surveillance.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:17.06,0:23:19.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And they're not going to be\Nhappy when they understand
Dialogue: 0,0:23:19.93,0:23:21.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that FISA and all\Nthe conversations
Dialogue: 0,0:23:21.93,0:23:25.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the United States about\Nsafeguards and minimization are
Dialogue: 0,0:23:25.84,0:23:28.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to protect our rights but\Nhave absolutely nothing
Dialogue: 0,0:23:28.84,0:23:29.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to do with them.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:29.91,0:23:32.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't think congress\Nis going to care.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:32.28,0:23:34.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I think there's a\Nmassive laws to respect
Dialogue: 0,0:23:34.71,0:23:37.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and when we're talking about\Nfive zeta [inaudible] whatever
Dialogue: 0,0:23:37.72,0:23:40.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that is, a non-US\Nperson data going
Dialogue: 0,0:23:40.25,0:23:45.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,into a new Utah data center, I\Nthink that the irony at the end
Dialogue: 0,0:23:45.12,0:23:48.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the day will be that one
Dialogue: 0,0:23:48.29,0:23:51.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the FISA permissible\Nactivities is collecting
Dialogue: 0,0:23:51.100,0:23:55.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,intelligence for foreign\Naffairs and foreign policy.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:55.13,0:23:58.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think at the end of\Nthe day, we may see people
Dialogue: 0,0:23:58.70,0:24:01.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the world uniting with\Ntheir governments around kinds
Dialogue: 0,0:24:01.84,0:24:06.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of restrictions and ring fencing\Nof the internet that will come
Dialogue: 0,0:24:06.34,0:24:07.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to both underlying rights
Dialogue: 0,0:24:07.81,0:24:10.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and undermine the\Nopenness of the internet.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:10.11,0:24:14.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, that is my anxious\Npersons guide to the--
Dialogue: 0,0:24:14.28,0:24:15.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to what's been happening.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:15.92,0:24:17.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Thank you Leslie.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:17.66,0:24:19.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Randy?
Dialogue: 0,0:24:19.19,0:24:24.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> How many of you noticed\Naccounted how many surveillance
Dialogue: 0,0:24:24.06,0:24:28.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,devices you've past\Nto get to this room?
Dialogue: 0,0:24:28.03,0:24:33.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah. I just walked in from the\Nrestaurant a couple blocks away.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:33.80,0:24:40.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I counted 22 surveillance style\Ndevices just in the walk outside
Dialogue: 0,0:24:40.84,0:24:44.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of this building and there's\Nat least in this room right now
Dialogue: 0,0:24:44.45,0:24:48.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that not counting your\Nsmart phones and all that.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:48.39,0:24:50.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I hope you all can find the six
Dialogue: 0,0:24:50.56,0:24:53.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because they're pretty\Nobvious as to what they are.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:53.52,0:24:57.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My point on all of this\Nis that as a practitioner,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:57.83,0:24:59.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm the Sisa for Virginia Tech.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:59.96,0:25:04.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My office is responsible for\Nmonitoring and responding
Dialogue: 0,0:25:04.17,0:25:06.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to any attacks against\Nour network infrastructure
Dialogue: 0,0:25:06.54,0:25:07.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at Virginia Tech.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:07.84,0:25:09.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have our main campus down\Nthe Blacksburg, Virginia.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:09.91,0:25:11.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's about four and a\Nhalf hours from here.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:11.84,0:25:13.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have a Northern\NVirginia campus right
Dialogue: 0,0:25:13.48,0:25:15.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,across the river in Boylston.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:15.51,0:25:17.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so my charge,\Nmy office is charged
Dialogue: 0,0:25:17.88,0:25:20.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to monitor any attacks\Nfrom there.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:20.72,0:25:23.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Anybody who has ever managed\Nan internet infrastructure has
Dialogue: 0,0:25:23.89,0:25:25.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,known since the very beginning
Dialogue: 0,0:25:25.99,0:25:29.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the internet has never\Nbeen anonymous in the sense
Dialogue: 0,0:25:29.49,0:25:31.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of tracking a machine.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:31.33,0:25:34.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,From day 1, we've\Nalways been able to track
Dialogue: 0,0:25:34.46,0:25:35.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where our machine was.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:35.67,0:25:38.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We were not able to track\Nwho is at the machine
Dialogue: 0,0:25:38.90,0:25:41.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with any reasonable\Namount of accuracy
Dialogue: 0,0:25:41.00,0:25:44.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but we've always been able\Nto track where machines are.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:44.24,0:25:47.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The big thing was of course\Ndata, storage capabilities.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:47.84,0:25:50.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We didn't have enough\Ndata storage capabilities,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:50.41,0:25:51.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,disk drives.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:51.35,0:25:53.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In 1992, when I've\Ngot involved--
Dialogue: 0,0:25:53.62,0:25:57.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,first involved with the computer\Nsecurity stuff, you know,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:57.05,0:25:59.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we had a one gigabyte drive and\Nwe thought that was, you know,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:59.56,0:26:02.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the entire disc storage\Nin the entire free world.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:02.59,0:26:06.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, you know, nowadays, with\Nthe huge disk forms that are
Dialogue: 0,0:26:06.63,0:26:10.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,out there, that is allowing\Nthis collection of data.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:10.00,0:26:13.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, from our standpoint,\Nthat's always been the case.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:13.40,0:26:16.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, my challenge is,\Nyou all let this happen.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:16.97,0:26:21.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You all let knew that this was\Nhappening and you let it go on.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:21.38,0:26:24.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is nothing new about the\Nprism stuff and all of these.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:24.42,0:26:25.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's kind of ironic for people
Dialogue: 0,0:26:25.88,0:26:28.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in my world 'cause we all\Nsit back and we go, you know,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:28.72,0:26:32.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in 2010, the Washington\NPosts, Dana Priest
Dialogue: 0,0:26:32.72,0:26:35.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and William Arkin wrote an\Nexcellent series called Top
Dialogue: 0,0:26:35.29,0:26:37.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Secret America where\Nthey're talking about all
Dialogue: 0,0:26:37.93,0:26:39.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the built way companies
Dialogue: 0,0:26:39.56,0:26:41.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that are building the\Nsurveillance technologies
Dialogue: 0,0:26:41.63,0:26:44.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the federal government\Nand other entities are using.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:44.60,0:26:47.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,All out there was an excellent\Nseries on the newspaper
Dialogue: 0,0:26:47.47,0:26:49.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that I read it back then.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:49.14,0:26:51.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Newsweek came out in\N2008 where they talked
Dialogue: 0,0:26:51.81,0:26:55.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about a whistle blower\Nwho mentioned
Dialogue: 0,0:26:55.55,0:26:59.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about NSA's warrantless\Nwiretapping so to speak.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:59.78,0:27:01.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was all out there.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:01.08,0:27:03.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you go back and you look\Nthrough the press things,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:03.75,0:27:07.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there was always something\Nthere and nobody reacted to it.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:07.29,0:27:09.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, it's ironic from\Nmy viewpoint
Dialogue: 0,0:27:09.99,0:27:12.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that everybody is having\Nthis big flop about it now
Dialogue: 0,0:27:12.100,0:27:15.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because it's been there\Nand you let it happen.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:15.90,0:27:19.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, my charge to you is don't\Nlet it happen again, OK?
Dialogue: 0,0:27:19.94,0:27:22.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When you do read\Nabout these things,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:22.24,0:27:24.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you need to influence your\Nlegislatures about what's going
Dialogue: 0,0:27:24.94,0:27:28.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on 'cause they do not\Nunderstand the technology.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:28.31,0:27:31.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One quick example, in Virginia,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:31.12,0:27:33.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there's data bridge\Nnotification laws
Dialogue: 0,0:27:33.48,0:27:35.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of social security is disclosed.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:35.99,0:27:37.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, somebody\Ngets a spreadsheet
Dialogue: 0,0:27:37.99,0:27:40.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it explodes out there.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:40.22,0:27:44.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yet I can go to a county\Ncourthouse website and look
Dialogue: 0,0:27:44.03,0:27:47.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,up public records deeds,\Ndivorce decrees, whatever,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:47.33,0:27:49.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and what's on those documents.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:49.43,0:27:52.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yet the kind of clerks can't\Nredact that information
Dialogue: 0,0:27:52.17,0:27:55.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because until recently,\Nthe law forbid it, OK?
Dialogue: 0,0:27:55.07,0:27:58.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Everybody was in a rush for\NeGovernment but never thought
Dialogue: 0,0:27:58.88,0:28:01.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about what's in those\Ndocuments that going there.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:01.71,0:28:03.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, we need to be\Nable to influence
Dialogue: 0,0:28:03.65,0:28:06.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and educate the legislatures\Nwho are--
Dialogue: 0,0:28:06.28,0:28:08.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who are building the policy.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:08.28,0:28:10.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, this is the whole thing.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:10.25,0:28:13.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm a technologist and everybody\Nin here, the computer scientists
Dialogue: 0,0:28:13.36,0:28:15.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and all that, you all\Nlearned in here with me.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:15.63,0:28:17.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We help build this\Ninfrastructure.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:17.56,0:28:21.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We may have had a\Nmisgiving where we thought
Dialogue: 0,0:28:21.16,0:28:24.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that as builders we could\Ncontrol the people who use it.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:24.40,0:28:26.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But as, you know,\Nprevious history shown
Dialogue: 0,0:28:26.74,0:28:29.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the atom bomb development\Nand all these other things,
Dialogue: 0,0:28:29.04,0:28:30.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's not always the case.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:30.41,0:28:33.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Builders do not control\Nthe controllers.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:33.71,0:28:35.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's my first point.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:35.04,0:28:37.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The second point is that, again,\Nyou all have smart phones.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:37.88,0:28:39.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Actually I don't.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:39.12,0:28:41.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I have kind of a dumb phone\Nand people always laugh.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:41.08,0:28:43.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They go, "You know,\Nyou're a technologist,"
Dialogue: 0,0:28:43.72,0:28:46.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I just have a little,\Nyou know, Samsung Integrity
Dialogue: 0,0:28:46.49,0:28:48.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the nice little\Nflippy thing.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:48.06,0:28:50.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I said, "Because the\Nguys in my lab have busted
Dialogue: 0,0:28:50.13,0:28:51.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,into the smart phones
Dialogue: 0,0:28:51.23,0:28:53.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and tracked everybody\Nall over the place."
Dialogue: 0,0:28:53.60,0:28:54.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But actually the reason\Nwhy I don't this is
Dialogue: 0,0:28:54.100,0:28:58.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because the battery life is not\Nlong enough for my taste, OK?
Dialogue: 0,0:28:58.27,0:29:00.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But a great quote, Lyn Paramore\N[assumed spelling] wrote a great
Dialogue: 0,0:29:00.97,0:29:04.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,article and in there quoted\Nthings that are supposed
Dialogue: 0,0:29:04.94,0:29:06.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to make our lives easier.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:06.61,0:29:10.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Smartphones, Gmails,\NSkype, GPS, Facebook,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:10.58,0:29:13.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they have become\Ntools to track us.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:13.88,0:29:17.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we've been happily\Nshopping for the bars
Dialogue: 0,0:29:17.25,0:29:22.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to our own prison one prison at\Na time, one product at a time."
Dialogue: 0,0:29:22.26,0:29:25.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, we're in the-- we're\Nto blame for all of this.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:25.36,0:29:27.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We are allowing that to happen.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:27.36,0:29:28.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The last thing I want to talk
Dialogue: 0,0:29:28.60,0:29:30.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about is this Federal\Nword play thing.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:30.94,0:29:32.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Whenever I confront a student
Dialogue: 0,0:29:32.97,0:29:36.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or a professor whose been\Nviolating a university policy,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:36.87,0:29:38.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you let something\Ngo out on the net.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:38.64,0:29:39.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I go. "Why did you do that?"
Dialogue: 0,0:29:39.98,0:29:42.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's kind of like watching,\Nyou know, a six-year-old.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:42.75,0:29:46.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"I don't know, you know, it\Nwasn't my fault," you know.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:46.02,0:29:47.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That type of stuff.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:47.08,0:29:50.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And you get this\Nword play, you know.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:50.35,0:29:52.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Richard Pryor, a long time\Nago had an excellent thing
Dialogue: 0,0:29:52.96,0:29:56.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when his son broke something\Nand he asked his son happened.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:56.83,0:29:59.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And all the word play that his\Nson came out with, you know,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:59.53,0:30:01.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Some invisible man came\Nout and broke the thing."
Dialogue: 0,0:30:01.16,0:30:04.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's what we're seeing now.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:04.00,0:30:06.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We're seeing this when they\Nsay we're not collecting data
Dialogue: 0,0:30:06.77,0:30:08.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on you.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:08.17,0:30:10.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, OK, your not collecting it\Ntechnically but you're buying it
Dialogue: 0,0:30:10.17,0:30:12.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from people who are\Ncollecting it from us.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:12.51,0:30:15.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, that's-- that's\None thing there.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:15.04,0:30:18.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The network companies that say,\Nyou know, the data providers,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:18.35,0:30:21.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the Verizons, the Googles,\Nthey say, "Hey, you know,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:21.22,0:30:23.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we're not willingly giving it\Nto the federal government."
Dialogue: 0,0:30:23.62,0:30:24.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, of course not.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:24.69,0:30:26.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You're being subpoenaed\Nfor the document.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:26.19,0:30:29.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You're not giving it\Nwillingly to the-- to there.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:29.13,0:30:32.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, Zack Holman\Nwrote a great little tweet.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:32.70,0:30:36.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It says, "We don't give\Ndirect database access
Dialogue: 0,0:30:36.30,0:30:38.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to government agencies."
Dialogue: 0,0:30:38.04,0:30:43.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That quote has become the\Nnew "I didn't inhale," OK?
Dialogue: 0,0:30:43.61,0:30:45.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so the key word is direct.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:45.61,0:30:48.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Marketers are being collecting\Ninformation on us all the time.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:48.95,0:30:50.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, in fact, that was\None of the big things
Dialogue: 0,0:30:50.88,0:30:52.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that helped us with 9/11.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:52.32,0:30:54.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,On a positive side,\Nthat did help us
Dialogue: 0,0:30:54.52,0:30:57.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in 9/11 identify the hijackers\Nwhen the marketing companies
Dialogue: 0,0:30:57.96,0:31:00.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the credit card companies\Nrealized that they could help
Dialogue: 0,0:31:00.76,0:31:02.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because they had that data.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:02.59,0:31:07.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, we need to be sure that\Nthings are done correctly.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:07.76,0:31:09.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Everybody says we're\Ndoing it legally.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:09.93,0:31:10.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's correct.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:10.87,0:31:13.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The laws stated they can do it.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:13.00,0:31:16.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's the creation of\Nthat law that's the flaw.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:16.04,0:31:20.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's my surveillance guide\Ntelling me it's time to quit.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:20.84,0:31:22.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Those are my points.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:22.41,0:31:23.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Thanks, Randy.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:23.31,0:31:24.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Melissa?
Dialogue: 0,0:31:24.35,0:31:25.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Thank you.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:25.35,0:31:29.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, I think it's\Nimportant to look
Dialogue: 0,0:31:29.89,0:31:34.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to our past to inform\Nour future.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:34.06,0:31:36.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I'm going to take a\Nlittle bit different direction
Dialogue: 0,0:31:36.23,0:31:38.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,than my colleagues.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:38.10,0:31:41.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The very first transmission of\Nthe internet was October 29th,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:41.20,0:31:44.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,1969 and it was an e-mail\Nbetween two universities.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:44.57,0:31:50.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And today we have more than 204\Ne-mails are sent per minute.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:50.34,0:31:53.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,More than 1,300 new mobile\Nusers are added per minute
Dialogue: 0,0:31:53.41,0:31:56.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the internet, 47,000\Napplications are downloaded,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:56.48,0:32:01.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,100,000 tweets, 1.3 million\Nvideos are uploaded to YouTube,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:01.55,0:32:04.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,two million searches to Google,\Nand six million Facebook views.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:04.72,0:32:08.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The internet is part of\Nevery part of our life
Dialogue: 0,0:32:08.09,0:32:11.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and over the last\N45 almost years,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:11.90,0:32:16.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we have embedded the internet\Nin every part of our society.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:16.57,0:32:20.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it is the backbone of our\Ncore infrastructure of every--
Dialogue: 0,0:32:20.84,0:32:23.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,every country's core\Ninfrastructure.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:23.87,0:32:29.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It represents e-government,\Ne-banking, e-health, e-learning,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:29.48,0:32:31.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the next generation of\Nair traffic control,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:31.55,0:32:34.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the next generation\Nof power grids
Dialogue: 0,0:32:34.08,0:32:37.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and every other essential\Nservice has been concentrated
Dialogue: 0,0:32:37.42,0:32:40.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,onto one infrastructure,\Nthe internet.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:40.72,0:32:43.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that is putting\Nour businesses
Dialogue: 0,0:32:43.26,0:32:45.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and our national\Nsecurity at risk.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:45.80,0:32:48.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I-- when I speak about\Nour, I'm really speaking
Dialogue: 0,0:32:48.70,0:32:50.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in as a global citizen.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:50.07,0:32:52.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If I were in France I would be\Nspeaking about it in France.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:52.37,0:32:55.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If I were Iran or\NIsrael, it's the same way.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:55.30,0:32:58.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so I think that\Nthat has really began
Dialogue: 0,0:32:58.38,0:33:00.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to change the conversation
Dialogue: 0,0:33:00.41,0:33:03.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we can't have any one\Nsingle point of failure,
Dialogue: 0,0:33:03.65,0:33:07.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,economic failure and/or national\Nsecurity failure to any one
Dialogue: 0,0:33:07.52,0:33:11.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of our-- of our core\Nbusinesses or infrastructures.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:11.19,0:33:13.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so when we're talking about\Ncyber security and we're talking
Dialogue: 0,0:33:13.76,0:33:17.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about different government\Nactions and we wrap it all
Dialogue: 0,0:33:17.06,0:33:20.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,into one conversation, I ask\Nyou to start to think about it
Dialogue: 0,0:33:20.30,0:33:22.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as multiple conversations.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:22.53,0:33:25.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's not helpful\Nto bundle into one term
Dialogue: 0,0:33:25.70,0:33:28.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of cyber security\Nand/or surveillance.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:28.34,0:33:30.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, I'd you to-- I'd like\Nyou to think about it
Dialogue: 0,0:33:30.97,0:33:33.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in six different ways\Nof why our governments
Dialogue: 0,0:33:33.61,0:33:37.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and why our industry are\Ntalking past each other.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:37.41,0:33:40.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The first is is when we're\Ntalking about cyber security,
Dialogue: 0,0:33:40.15,0:33:42.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we're sometimes talking\Nabout political activism.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:42.85,0:33:46.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Those who would like to bring\Ntransparency to policies
Dialogue: 0,0:33:46.59,0:33:49.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and to our initiatives\Nthat they don't agree with.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:49.83,0:33:53.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In the United States, one could\Nsay that that was WikiLeaks
Dialogue: 0,0:33:53.76,0:33:56.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that brought about a great\Namount of transparency
Dialogue: 0,0:33:56.93,0:34:00.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to US policies as they\Nleaked our information
Dialogue: 0,0:34:00.07,0:34:01.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,into the internet.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:01.37,0:34:04.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,All right, one could argue\Nthat that was also Snowden.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:04.48,0:34:08.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But in other countries\Npolitical activism is being used
Dialogue: 0,0:34:08.08,0:34:13.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by Twitter, using Twitter and/or\NFacebook to organize people
Dialogue: 0,0:34:13.05,0:34:18.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in these squares like Taksim\Nand/or in Turkey or Egypt
Dialogue: 0,0:34:18.09,0:34:21.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to express political\Ndiscontent with their government
Dialogue: 0,0:34:21.66,0:34:24.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the intent to\Noverthrow the government.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:24.43,0:34:26.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Political instability.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:26.06,0:34:27.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so when our governments\Nare starting to talk
Dialogue: 0,0:34:27.83,0:34:31.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about surveillance on the\Ninternet and/or filtering
Dialogue: 0,0:34:31.47,0:34:35.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the internet, some believe in\Npolitical democracy and freedom
Dialogue: 0,0:34:35.54,0:34:37.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of that speech on the\Ninternet and others do not.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:37.74,0:34:40.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it has different\Nmechanisms of how they're using
Dialogue: 0,0:34:40.58,0:34:42.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that surveillance\Nor the technology
Dialogue: 0,0:34:42.71,0:34:44.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,around political activism.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:44.92,0:34:47.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now that should not be\Nconfused with organized crime
Dialogue: 0,0:34:47.85,0:34:51.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the internet, the real modern\Nday bank robber who's stealing
Dialogue: 0,0:34:51.39,0:34:54.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ones and zeros which\Nis real dollars
Dialogue: 0,0:34:54.22,0:34:57.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,out of your credit accounts\Nor out of your real banks,
Dialogue: 0,0:34:57.100,0:35:01.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and as being passed on as\Na cost for our citizens.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:01.03,0:35:02.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have many of our\Ngovernments who are talking
Dialogue: 0,0:35:02.83,0:35:04.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about the importance\Nof organized crime.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:04.70,0:35:06.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When I was just in Europe\Njust a few weeks ago,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:06.94,0:35:09.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it was 30 million dollars stolen
Dialogue: 0,0:35:09.07,0:35:12.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,out of 45 different\Ncities in 30 minutes.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:12.28,0:35:14.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's a real problem\Nfor our banks.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:14.14,0:35:16.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's a real problem\Nfor our credit cards.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:16.18,0:35:18.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we're having to deal\Nwith that organized crime
Dialogue: 0,0:35:18.72,0:35:20.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and real theft of\Nones and zeroes.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:20.75,0:35:24.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now that should not be confused\Nwith intellectual property theft
Dialogue: 0,0:35:24.72,0:35:26.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and industrial espionage.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:26.76,0:35:28.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's very different.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:28.39,0:35:30.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And many of our government\Nleaders in the United States
Dialogue: 0,0:35:30.83,0:35:33.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and many government leaders\Nin Europe are talking
Dialogue: 0,0:35:33.70,0:35:36.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about the unprecedented theft\Nof intellectual property.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:36.97,0:35:40.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thefts, meaning,\Nillegally copying the plans,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:40.07,0:35:43.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,processes and/or next\Ngeneration technologies
Dialogue: 0,0:35:43.57,0:35:47.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,out of our corporations\Nfor the economic advance
Dialogue: 0,0:35:47.04,0:35:50.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of their companies\Nand/or countries.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:50.15,0:35:54.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so the intellectual property\Ntheft is then not the same
Dialogue: 0,0:35:54.05,0:35:55.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as espionage.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:55.62,0:35:58.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there are governments\Nthat are conducting espionage.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:58.36,0:36:01.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Most governments do to steal\Nthe plans and intentions
Dialogue: 0,0:36:01.39,0:36:05.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of other governments and\Nknow their capabilities.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:05.23,0:36:07.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In the United States, we\Nsort of bundled the two,
Dialogue: 0,0:36:07.43,0:36:11.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,IP theft and espionage.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:11.27,0:36:13.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When were talking about it, in\Nfact, we're talking about it
Dialogue: 0,0:36:13.60,0:36:19.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as Pearl Harbor and other\Nvery exaggerated terms.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:19.41,0:36:21.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If we are going to bundle\Nintellectual property theft
Dialogue: 0,0:36:21.58,0:36:24.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with espionage then we have\Nto be willing to put espionage
Dialogue: 0,0:36:24.41,0:36:26.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we would walk from\Nit as a government.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:26.65,0:36:28.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I don't see any\Ngovernment willing
Dialogue: 0,0:36:28.25,0:36:29.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to walk away from espionage.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:29.65,0:36:31.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, why don't we talk about\Nwhat's really the problem
Dialogue: 0,0:36:31.92,0:36:35.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that's intellectual property\Ntheft and/or the protection
Dialogue: 0,0:36:35.02,0:36:37.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of intellectual property\Nand patents, et cetera.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:37.83,0:36:41.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are two other areas that\Nare becoming more concerning
Dialogue: 0,0:36:41.43,0:36:45.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for most companies and\Ncountries that are--
Dialogue: 0,0:36:45.74,0:36:47.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the first is disruption\Nof service.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:47.40,0:36:50.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And this is the distributed\Ndenial-of-services actually
Dialogue: 0,0:36:50.27,0:36:53.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,degrading real services\Nin your e-banking
Dialogue: 0,0:36:53.08,0:36:56.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and your e-infrastructures\Nthat are preventing our banks
Dialogue: 0,0:36:56.91,0:37:00.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from allowing you to actually\Naccess those infrastructures
Dialogue: 0,0:37:00.35,0:37:01.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and/or capabilities.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:01.92,0:37:03.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we just had a--\Nand a significant,
Dialogue: 0,0:37:03.75,0:37:04.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the United States,
Dialogue: 0,0:37:04.89,0:37:06.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we're having a distributed\Ndenial-of-service
Dialogue: 0,0:37:06.72,0:37:08.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,against our financial\Ninstitutions
Dialogue: 0,0:37:08.16,0:37:10.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and so are many others\Nin Asia and Europe.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:10.89,0:37:13.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then finally the\Ndestruction of property.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:13.73,0:37:16.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There was just recently a\Nmalware that was released
Dialogue: 0,0:37:16.70,0:37:18.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,against Saudi ARamCo
Dialogue: 0,0:37:18.64,0:37:21.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which destroyed 30,000\Nof their computers.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:21.87,0:37:24.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And when we start to actually\Nthink about destruction
Dialogue: 0,0:37:24.17,0:37:26.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of property and how one\Nmight recover from that
Dialogue: 0,0:37:26.88,0:37:29.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that is a different set of\Ncapabilities than you would deal
Dialogue: 0,0:37:29.91,0:37:33.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with from organized crime\Nand/or political activism.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:33.58,0:37:36.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, as we talk about this\Non our panel over the course
Dialogue: 0,0:37:36.45,0:37:38.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the next hour, I ask\Nyou to start to think
Dialogue: 0,0:37:38.72,0:37:40.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about which problem\Nare you talking
Dialogue: 0,0:37:40.52,0:37:43.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about because we're not\Ntalking about the same thing
Dialogue: 0,0:37:43.49,0:37:45.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in each of our conversations.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:45.86,0:37:48.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'd like to wrap up and that
Dialogue: 0,0:37:48.36,0:37:51.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,over 100 countries have\Nthese capabilities,
Dialogue: 0,0:37:51.13,0:37:53.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they are using these\Ncapabilities to deal
Dialogue: 0,0:37:53.14,0:37:56.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with these different problems\Nwhether it's political activism
Dialogue: 0,0:37:56.31,0:37:59.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to overthrow government\Nor its political activism
Dialogue: 0,0:37:59.08,0:38:01.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to bring transparency\Nto policies they don't
Dialogue: 0,0:38:01.21,0:38:03.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like is different\Nthan organized crime
Dialogue: 0,0:38:03.61,0:38:05.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or intellectual property theft.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:05.75,0:38:07.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there are three strategic\Nthings that are happening
Dialogue: 0,0:38:07.68,0:38:09.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the global order of things.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:09.92,0:38:14.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,First, some are using disruptive\Ntechnology like a Stuxnet
Dialogue: 0,0:38:14.52,0:38:17.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or a Shamoon to bring\Ndown core infrastructures
Dialogue: 0,0:38:17.39,0:38:20.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or core businesses\Naround the world
Dialogue: 0,0:38:20.10,0:38:24.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or some are implementing\Nsurveillance tools to bring
Dialogue: 0,0:38:24.23,0:38:27.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about transparency or to\Nshow the vulnerabilities
Dialogue: 0,0:38:27.94,0:38:29.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for those infrastructures\Nto be brought down.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:29.74,0:38:32.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, disruptive technologies\Nare being used.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:32.11,0:38:35.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Second, strategic alliances\Nare also being wielded
Dialogue: 0,0:38:35.41,0:38:39.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to actually gather that power\Nand control over the internet.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:39.38,0:38:43.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's playing out in\Nthe UN and the ITU and NATO
Dialogue: 0,0:38:43.99,0:38:47.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and ACION [assumed spelling]\Nand other of the forum
Dialogue: 0,0:38:47.02,0:38:48.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where countries can\Nalign against each other
Dialogue: 0,0:38:48.96,0:38:50.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for particular motives.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:50.16,0:38:53.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then finally there\Nare strategic properties.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:53.40,0:38:56.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I mean that in the\Nvery sense of it is.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:56.77,0:38:58.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are 25 internet\Nservice providers
Dialogue: 0,0:38:58.90,0:38:59.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that control 90 percent
Dialogue: 0,0:38:59.97,0:39:02.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of information flow\Non the internet.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:02.27,0:39:03.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are internet\Nexchange points
Dialogue: 0,0:39:03.97,0:39:08.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that actually control the\Nflow of technology and/or ones
Dialogue: 0,0:39:08.34,0:39:12.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and zeroes from continent to\Ncontinent or within a continent.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:12.18,0:39:14.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there are data aggregators
Dialogue: 0,0:39:14.45,0:39:17.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who have actually more\Ninformation on us like a Google
Dialogue: 0,0:39:17.65,0:39:20.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or a Facebook than any\Nforeign intelligence service
Dialogue: 0,0:39:20.19,0:39:21.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of any other country.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:21.49,0:39:22.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, you have to think
Dialogue: 0,0:39:22.56,0:39:24.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about where are the\Nstrategic properties
Dialogue: 0,0:39:24.36,0:39:25.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and how they're being used
Dialogue: 0,0:39:25.50,0:39:28.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by all governments not\Njust by one government.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:28.46,0:39:30.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:30.03,0:39:34.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Thank you, Melissa.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:34.74,0:39:35.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Laura?
Dialogue: 0,0:39:35.54,0:39:36.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Good afternoon everyone.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:36.84,0:39:38.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm very delighted to be here.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:38.18,0:39:40.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I wish to thank the Internet\NSociety for the invitation
Dialogue: 0,0:39:40.54,0:39:43.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and for GW for hosting\Nit as well.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:43.01,0:39:46.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I view PRISM as an\Nopportunity to draw attention
Dialogue: 0,0:39:46.75,0:39:50.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the implications of broader\Nglobal internet governance
Dialogue: 0,0:39:50.42,0:39:52.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,conflicts that have\Nimplications for economic
Dialogue: 0,0:39:52.99,0:39:54.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and expressive liberty.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:54.62,0:39:59.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I recently-- recently the\Nlast two or three years spent
Dialogue: 0,0:39:59.56,0:40:01.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that time researching
Dialogue: 0,0:40:01.06,0:40:03.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and writing a new book\Ncalled the Global War
Dialogue: 0,0:40:03.27,0:40:04.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for Internet Governance.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:04.43,0:40:06.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's going to be\Npublished later this year
Dialogue: 0,0:40:06.54,0:40:08.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by Yale University Press.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:08.30,0:40:11.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now in this book, there are\Napproximately four pages
Dialogue: 0,0:40:11.71,0:40:13.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the end of acronyms.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:13.78,0:40:16.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, what I've done is I've\Nchallenged myself today
Dialogue: 0,0:40:16.41,0:40:17.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to not use any acronyms.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:17.88,0:40:20.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, what I would like to ask you\Nto do is to pound on the table
Dialogue: 0,0:40:20.85,0:40:23.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if I use an internet governance\Nacronyms, so pay attention
Dialogue: 0,0:40:23.79,0:40:27.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to that, and I know some\Nof you will do that.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:27.19,0:40:28.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But what I tried to do
Dialogue: 0,0:40:28.46,0:40:31.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the book is describe\Nthe various layers
Dialogue: 0,0:40:31.16,0:40:34.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of how the internet is\Nalready governed and what some
Dialogue: 0,0:40:34.76,0:40:38.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the current debates are that\NI expect to shape the future
Dialogue: 0,0:40:38.00,0:40:40.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of freedom and innovation\Nin the coming years.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:40.84,0:40:42.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now what is internet governance?
Dialogue: 0,0:40:42.84,0:40:44.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This panel has already\Ndescribed it.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:44.37,0:40:45.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If I had to give one definition,
Dialogue: 0,0:40:45.94,0:40:51.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I would say internet governance\Nis the design and administration
Dialogue: 0,0:40:51.25,0:40:52.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the technologies\Nthat are necessary
Dialogue: 0,0:40:52.78,0:40:55.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to keep the internet operational\Nand then the enactment
Dialogue: 0,0:40:55.82,0:40:58.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of substantive policy\Naround those technologies.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:58.86,0:41:02.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But there is no single system\Nof internet governance.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:02.42,0:41:05.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,John said it best when he was\Ndescribing the various roles,
Dialogue: 0,0:41:05.20,0:41:07.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,names and numbers,\Nadministration,
Dialogue: 0,0:41:07.33,0:41:11.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,standard setting, private\Ninterconnection, arrangements
Dialogue: 0,0:41:11.07,0:41:14.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,between telecommunication\Ncompanies, the privacy policies
Dialogue: 0,0:41:14.30,0:41:17.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that are enacted by social\Nmedia, by search engines
Dialogue: 0,0:41:17.07,0:41:19.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and other information\Nintermediaries.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:19.21,0:41:22.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, of course, cyber security\Ngovernance not necessarily
Dialogue: 0,0:41:22.98,0:41:25.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,enacted by governments\Nbut by entities
Dialogue: 0,0:41:25.22,0:41:27.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,such as certificate\Nauthorities that are handing
Dialogue: 0,0:41:27.62,0:41:29.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,out digital signatures\Nand things like that.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:29.85,0:41:31.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, those are just\Na few examples.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:31.62,0:41:35.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, we need to take this\Nconversation outside
Dialogue: 0,0:41:35.02,0:41:38.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of discussions about\Njust governance.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:38.19,0:41:41.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,However, one of themes that\NI do take up in the book
Dialogue: 0,0:41:41.43,0:41:43.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and in my work in general is
Dialogue: 0,0:41:43.57,0:41:47.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that internet governance\Nconflicts are the new spaces
Dialogue: 0,0:41:47.67,0:41:52.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where political and economic\Npower is working itself
Dialogue: 0,0:41:52.08,0:41:54.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,out in the 21st century.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:54.04,0:41:57.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We see this with PRISM,\Nwe see this with Stuxnet,
Dialogue: 0,0:41:57.38,0:42:00.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we see this with the\Nturn to intellectual--
Dialogue: 0,0:42:00.08,0:42:01.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to infrastructure
Dialogue: 0,0:42:01.25,0:42:03.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for intellectual property\Nrights enforcement,
Dialogue: 0,0:42:03.65,0:42:07.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with governments cutting off\Naccess during political turmoil.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:07.22,0:42:08.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And as Mellissa said,
Dialogue: 0,0:42:08.62,0:42:10.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we had denial-of-service\Nattacks often used
Dialogue: 0,0:42:10.89,0:42:13.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to suppress human\Nrights and expression.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:13.63,0:42:17.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, internet governance points\Nof control are really not just
Dialogue: 0,0:42:17.57,0:42:19.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about keeping the internet\Noperational although
Dialogue: 0,0:42:19.74,0:42:21.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that is absolutely vital.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:21.77,0:42:25.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But there are also a proxy\Nfor broader political
Dialogue: 0,0:42:25.74,0:42:27.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and economic conflicts.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:27.34,0:42:29.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, the fact that PRISM\Ndraws attention to some
Dialogue: 0,0:42:29.81,0:42:33.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of these broader global\Ninternet governance issues is
Dialogue: 0,0:42:33.78,0:42:35.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,an opportunity.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:35.48,0:42:39.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But keep in mind that government\Nsurveillance ad censorship
Dialogue: 0,0:42:39.36,0:42:43.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for that matter which is in my\Nopinion an even greater problem
Dialogue: 0,0:42:43.13,0:42:46.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,around the world\Nis not something
Dialogue: 0,0:42:46.66,0:42:48.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that happens in a vacuum.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:48.76,0:42:51.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, it's delegated and\Nit is made possible
Dialogue: 0,0:42:51.33,0:42:54.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by certain arrangements\Nof technical architecture
Dialogue: 0,0:42:54.97,0:42:57.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and by private ordering.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:57.21,0:43:01.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, infrastructure governance\Njust to give you a few examples,
Dialogue: 0,0:43:01.41,0:43:06.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,infrastructure governance is\Ndirectly tied to privacy issues.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:06.45,0:43:09.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, I have an information\Nengineering background.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:09.05,0:43:11.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I am also a social scientist\Nwho studies the politics
Dialogue: 0,0:43:11.55,0:43:13.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of technical architecture.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:13.16,0:43:15.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I can say that, you\Nknow, you probably could say
Dialogue: 0,0:43:15.79,0:43:17.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to use a Harry Potter analogy.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:17.16,0:43:20.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are some dark arts\Nof internet governance
Dialogue: 0,0:43:20.23,0:43:25.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that have a good intention but\Nthey can be used for other uses.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:25.07,0:43:27.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, one of these, for example,\Nis the deep packet inspection.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:27.60,0:43:30.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I didn't use the acronym\Nso no pounding on the table
Dialogue: 0,0:43:30.44,0:43:34.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is a capability that\Nallows network providers
Dialogue: 0,0:43:34.24,0:43:37.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to inspect the actual\Ncontent of packets sent
Dialogue: 0,0:43:37.58,0:43:40.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,over the internet rather\Nthan just the packet headers.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:40.25,0:43:42.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, this can be used\Nfor a variety
Dialogue: 0,0:43:42.15,0:43:46.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of very important function\Nsuch as network management,
Dialogue: 0,0:43:46.62,0:43:48.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,detecting viruses and worms.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:48.66,0:43:51.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It could also be used for\Ncustomized advertising,
Dialogue: 0,0:43:51.09,0:43:53.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,now getting outside of\Nthe operational role,
Dialogue: 0,0:43:53.16,0:43:55.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or for surveillances\Nor for throttling
Dialogue: 0,0:43:55.80,0:43:57.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and blocking of traffic.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:57.33,0:44:01.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, this is a very significant\Ndevelopment made possible only
Dialogue: 0,0:44:01.40,0:44:04.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by advances and processing\Npower and storage.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:04.21,0:44:06.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we need transparency\Nand accountability
Dialogue: 0,0:44:06.68,0:44:08.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in issues like this as well.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:08.71,0:44:11.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, another area of\Ninfrastructure related
Dialogue: 0,0:44:11.65,0:44:15.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to privacy is the hidden\Nidentity infrastructure
Dialogue: 0,0:44:15.58,0:44:18.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that makes possible business\Nmodels that are based
Dialogue: 0,0:44:18.76,0:44:20.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on online advertising.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:20.39,0:44:22.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, this is a good thing\Nfor freedom of expression
Dialogue: 0,0:44:22.99,0:44:26.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because there are free products\Nthat we are able to use,
Dialogue: 0,0:44:26.46,0:44:29.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but we are almost at the\Npoint where the prospect
Dialogue: 0,0:44:29.30,0:44:33.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for anonymous speech considering\Nthis identity infrastructure is
Dialogue: 0,0:44:33.47,0:44:35.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,almost impossible.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:35.30,0:44:38.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have technical identifiers\Nat the level of hardware
Dialogue: 0,0:44:38.48,0:44:40.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like Ethernet cards at the level
Dialogue: 0,0:44:40.41,0:44:45.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of virtual identifiers\Nlocationally via cellphone
Dialogue: 0,0:44:45.01,0:44:50.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,location, wireless fidelity\NAKA wifi, it's my one acronym
Dialogue: 0,0:44:50.65,0:44:53.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or global positioning\Nsystem and through things
Dialogue: 0,0:44:53.46,0:44:56.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like platform mediation and real\Nidentification requirements.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:56.53,0:44:59.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, if you put this all\Ntogether, this is at the heart
Dialogue: 0,0:44:59.76,0:45:03.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of business models that\Nwe need at the heart
Dialogue: 0,0:45:03.30,0:45:07.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of online advertising, at the\Nheart of having free software.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:07.40,0:45:10.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But it also is the\Ntechnical capability
Dialogue: 0,0:45:10.61,0:45:12.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that can enable new\Nform, even newer forms
Dialogue: 0,0:45:12.94,0:45:15.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of surveillance in the future.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:15.11,0:45:18.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, these are new\Nopportunities for surveillance.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:18.48,0:45:21.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Two other infrastructure issues\NI'll mention I'll mention
Dialogue: 0,0:45:21.62,0:45:26.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,quickly include a current\Nrethinking and redesign of the
Dialogue: 0,0:45:26.39,0:45:28.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"who is" protocol\Nwhich keeps track
Dialogue: 0,0:45:28.89,0:45:32.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of who is registering a\Ndomain name and, of course,
Dialogue: 0,0:45:32.93,0:45:35.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,also the issue as has\Nalready been mentioned
Dialogue: 0,0:45:35.56,0:45:37.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of internet exchange points.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:37.53,0:45:40.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How these are governed and\Nhow they are distributed
Dialogue: 0,0:45:40.20,0:45:42.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,around the world is something
Dialogue: 0,0:45:42.17,0:45:44.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that is very related\Nto civil liberties.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:44.07,0:45:47.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The Internet Society and we'll\Nhear from next has really been
Dialogue: 0,0:45:47.91,0:45:50.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the forefront of\Nthis area which--
Dialogue: 0,0:45:50.08,0:45:52.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,having more internet\Nexchange points,
Dialogue: 0,0:45:52.22,0:45:54.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,looking at the criticality\Nof them for human rights
Dialogue: 0,0:45:54.72,0:45:56.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for infrastructure development
Dialogue: 0,0:45:56.45,0:45:59.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and as concentrated points\Nof information flows.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:59.92,0:46:04.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, the truth is that global\Ninternet choke points,
Dialogue: 0,0:46:04.06,0:46:05.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of course, exist.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:05.30,0:46:08.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the internet is governed\Nnot by any one entity
Dialogue: 0,0:46:08.90,0:46:11.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but multi-stakeholder governance\Nwhich I'm sure we will take
Dialogue: 0,0:46:11.70,0:46:13.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,up in the roundtable later.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:13.97,0:46:17.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But that this governance\Nis not fixed anymore
Dialogue: 0,0:46:17.77,0:46:19.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,than architecture is fixed.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:19.91,0:46:22.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, the architecture\Nis constantly changing
Dialogue: 0,0:46:22.34,0:46:25.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the governance is\Nconstantly changing as well.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:25.62,0:46:27.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The basic theoretical\Nor conceptual framework
Dialogue: 0,0:46:27.88,0:46:30.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of my own work is\Nthat arrangements
Dialogue: 0,0:46:30.12,0:46:34.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of technical architecture are\Nalso arrangements of power.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:34.19,0:46:38.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, it's critical for the public\Nto be engaged in these debates
Dialogue: 0,0:46:38.09,0:46:40.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because the future of\Ninternet architecture
Dialogue: 0,0:46:40.03,0:46:42.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and governance is\Ndirectly related
Dialogue: 0,0:46:42.63,0:46:44.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the future of\Ninternet freedom.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:44.03,0:46:46.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, I appreciate the opportunity\Nto discuss that here today.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:46.94,0:46:49.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you very much\Nfor listening.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:49.17,0:46:50.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Thank you, Laura.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:50.14,0:46:52.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Lynn?
Dialogue: 0,0:46:52.54,0:46:53.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Good afternoon.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:53.58,0:46:55.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This has been a very\Ncomprehensive set
Dialogue: 0,0:46:55.74,0:46:59.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of speaking points, I\Nhave to say to date.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:59.05,0:47:02.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, the Internet Society is\Na cause-based organization.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:02.28,0:47:05.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We advocate for an\Nopen global internet.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:05.15,0:47:06.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In the recent revelations
Dialogue: 0,0:47:06.66,0:47:08.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about the mass scale\Ninterceptions not only
Dialogue: 0,0:47:08.89,0:47:12.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by the US, the UK, but\Nmany, many other countries
Dialogue: 0,0:47:12.13,0:47:14.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,around the world have\Nserious implications
Dialogue: 0,0:47:14.63,0:47:17.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for the open global internet.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:17.53,0:47:19.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ISOC is an international\Norganization.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:19.77,0:47:22.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have members, org\Nmembers and chapters
Dialogue: 0,0:47:22.07,0:47:23.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in virtually every country
Dialogue: 0,0:47:23.61,0:47:26.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the world perhaps even\Nevery country of the world.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:26.81,0:47:30.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have headquarters in\Njust outside of D.C. here
Dialogue: 0,0:47:30.91,0:47:33.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in Western Virginia and\NGeneva, Switzerland.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:33.65,0:47:38.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we have a very senior policy\Nand technical staff in little
Dialogue: 0,0:47:38.79,0:47:41.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,over 20 countries of\Nthe world often times
Dialogue: 0,0:47:41.02,0:47:43.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the same individual\Nwhich is more
Dialogue: 0,0:47:43.39,0:47:45.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and more the future in any case.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:45.60,0:47:48.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I spent 27 years in\NEurope, just moved back
Dialogue: 0,0:47:48.36,0:47:50.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the US a little\Nover a year ago.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:50.47,0:47:52.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the one thing I'd really\Nlike to do is to make sure
Dialogue: 0,0:47:52.57,0:47:55.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that here in D.C., in\Nthis country's capital
Dialogue: 0,0:47:55.74,0:47:58.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we recognize that this\Nis not just about US citizens
Dialogue: 0,0:47:58.41,0:48:01.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it's not just\Nabout the foreigners
Dialogue: 0,0:48:01.01,0:48:03.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the US is surveilling.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:03.78,0:48:06.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This affects every\Nindividual in the world.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:06.75,0:48:09.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It affects some of\Nthem very directly
Dialogue: 0,0:48:09.58,0:48:12.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but it will affect the\Ninternet we all have access
Dialogue: 0,0:48:12.09,0:48:17.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to going forward to tomorrow\Nand to generations to come.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:17.39,0:48:21.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If we are not careful, we will\Nactually rob both individuals
Dialogue: 0,0:48:21.76,0:48:24.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,today, tomorrow and future\Ngenerations of all the freedom
Dialogue: 0,0:48:24.83,0:48:26.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the benefit and\Nthe innovation
Dialogue: 0,0:48:26.74,0:48:29.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the internet has brought.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:29.64,0:48:32.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The Internet Society actually\Ndeals an awful lot in principles
Dialogue: 0,0:48:32.81,0:48:36.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the principles that make the\Ninternet what the internet is.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:36.11,0:48:38.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,First and foremost,\Nit's a platform.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:38.38,0:48:43.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It allows everybody to go out\Nand develop what they choose to,
Dialogue: 0,0:48:43.02,0:48:46.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to access what they choose to,\Nto innovate on material that's
Dialogue: 0,0:48:46.66,0:48:49.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,out there and make\Nthat available.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:49.19,0:48:54.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If we're not careful,\Nwe'll loose all of that.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:54.23,0:48:57.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, the-- in particular\Nrecently,
Dialogue: 0,0:48:57.13,0:48:59.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the unwarded collection\Nstorage and the ease
Dialogue: 0,0:48:59.90,0:49:02.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of correlation amongst all\Nthe data that's collected.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:02.47,0:49:04.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I actually don't\Ndifferentiate a lot
Dialogue: 0,0:49:04.84,0:49:07.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,between metadata and content.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:07.71,0:49:10.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can get so much\Ninformation from metadata
Dialogue: 0,0:49:10.08,0:49:11.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we shouldn't kid\Nourselves by saying,
Dialogue: 0,0:49:11.68,0:49:15.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"It's just metadata we're\Ncollecting, it's OK."
Dialogue: 0,0:49:15.42,0:49:19.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That-- though the collection\Nthat will undermine many
Dialogue: 0,0:49:19.79,0:49:21.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the key principles\Nand relationships.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:21.72,0:49:26.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And in particular some of those\Nnatural conclusions will start
Dialogue: 0,0:49:26.100,0:49:28.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to impact the physical\Ninfrastructure
Dialogue: 0,0:49:28.60,0:49:32.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the internet itself whether\Nit's using some of the IXPs
Dialogue: 0,0:49:32.44,0:49:34.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as choke points or\Nwhether it's using some
Dialogue: 0,0:49:34.34,0:49:36.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the technical\Ncapabilities that exist
Dialogue: 0,0:49:36.37,0:49:38.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to help with surveillance.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:38.71,0:49:42.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Those are all things\Nwe want to I think--
Dialogue: 0,0:49:42.11,0:49:44.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,think through very,\Nvery carefully.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:44.61,0:49:46.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One of the principles we argue
Dialogue: 0,0:49:46.12,0:49:48.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for is multistakeholder\Ndialogue.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:48.35,0:49:51.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's because so much of what\Nwe're all facing whether it's
Dialogue: 0,0:49:51.12,0:49:52.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in a policy or a technical
Dialogue: 0,0:49:52.69,0:49:55.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or a social environment\Nhas never been done
Dialogue: 0,0:49:55.02,0:49:56.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the world before.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:56.43,0:49:59.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We're breaking barriers\Nevery single day and we need
Dialogue: 0,0:49:59.33,0:50:01.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to bring everybody to the\Ntable for a discussion
Dialogue: 0,0:50:01.86,0:50:03.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and move forward\Nthoughtfully and carefully.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:03.23,0:50:09.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is even more so when we\Nlook to governments particularly
Dialogue: 0,0:50:09.84,0:50:12.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in their role in\Nprotecting citizens.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:12.91,0:50:16.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We believe that the internet\Nmust be a channel for secure,
Dialogue: 0,0:50:16.65,0:50:19.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,reliable, private communication
Dialogue: 0,0:50:19.22,0:50:21.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,between entities\Nand individuals.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:21.65,0:50:26.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And surveillance without due\Nprocess is simply unacceptable.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:26.16,0:50:29.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And as some other articles\Nhave said recently, frankly,
Dialogue: 0,0:50:29.86,0:50:31.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's very creepy as well.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:31.36,0:50:33.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And if that makes it more\Npersonal, this is good
Dialogue: 0,0:50:33.63,0:50:38.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because we need everybody to\Ncare about what's happening now.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:38.60,0:50:40.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We also challenge the\Nview that policies
Dialogue: 0,0:50:40.30,0:50:41.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to ensure security\Nmust always come
Dialogue: 0,0:50:41.77,0:50:44.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the cost of user's rights.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:44.31,0:50:47.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'd also argue with the fact\Nthat we all know it was coming
Dialogue: 0,0:50:47.21,0:50:49.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so what are we concerned about?
Dialogue: 0,0:50:49.44,0:50:50.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Due process wasn't followed.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:50.98,0:50:52.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's what were\Nconcerned about.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:52.55,0:50:54.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Did most people that\Npay attention
Dialogue: 0,0:50:54.05,0:50:56.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to this field understand that\Nyou could do all these sorts
Dialogue: 0,0:50:56.62,0:50:57.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of things with the data?
Dialogue: 0,0:50:57.82,0:51:01.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes. Did we believe our\Ngovernments were doing it
Dialogue: 0,0:51:01.06,0:51:03.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,without due process\Nand certainly
Dialogue: 0,0:51:03.76,0:51:07.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,without an adequate\Nlevel of transparency?
Dialogue: 0,0:51:07.60,0:51:09.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I might answer yes\Nbut hopefully--
Dialogue: 0,0:51:09.100,0:51:11.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,hopefully we didn't\Nand [inaudible]
Dialogue: 0,0:51:11.93,0:51:14.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to happen as Frank said.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:14.90,0:51:17.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One of the things we'd actually
Dialogue: 0,0:51:17.27,0:51:20.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like to do is really\Nget everybody to focus
Dialogue: 0,0:51:20.24,0:51:21.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the multistakeholder.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:21.51,0:51:22.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A lot of the principles
Dialogue: 0,0:51:22.84,0:51:28.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that have given us the internet\Nfind new forms, structures
Dialogue: 0,0:51:28.18,0:51:29.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and processes to address that.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:29.92,0:51:33.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Don't revert back to we\Nneed a new institution.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:33.32,0:51:37.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't think that is the answer\Nin almost every situation.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:37.76,0:51:42.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Some of the recent proposals\Nthat have been put forward
Dialogue: 0,0:51:42.63,0:51:45.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to address some of these\Naspects would call for treaties.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:45.23,0:51:47.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Treaties are largely\Nintergovernmental.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:47.37,0:51:48.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They don't allow for\Nthe private sector.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:48.97,0:51:51.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They don't allow\Nfor civil society.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:51.24,0:51:53.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And honestly I don't\Nknow how you get some
Dialogue: 0,0:51:53.21,0:51:54.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of those private\Nsector companies
Dialogue: 0,0:51:54.61,0:51:57.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to sign on to a treaty.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:57.11,0:51:59.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, I don't think treaties\Nare the answer either.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:59.25,0:52:02.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We're going to need to create\Nnew processes and new forums
Dialogue: 0,0:52:02.88,0:52:04.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and certainly at the\Ncore of all that ought
Dialogue: 0,0:52:04.89,0:52:07.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to be thoughtful\Ninformed dialogue.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:07.26,0:52:09.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, I think, you\Nknow, it's our hope
Dialogue: 0,0:52:09.69,0:52:13.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that as these discussions\Ncontinue across the world
Dialogue: 0,0:52:13.10,0:52:16.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we recognize and\Ncome to agree again
Dialogue: 0,0:52:16.87,0:52:19.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on some other high\Nlevel principles.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:19.04,0:52:21.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Some of the ones I'd throw\Nout for further debate,
Dialogue: 0,0:52:21.50,0:52:24.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is it unwanted surveillance\Neven in the furtherance
Dialogue: 0,0:52:24.87,0:52:27.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of national security\Nis not acceptable.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:27.88,0:52:31.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Unwarranted surveillance\Nis not acceptable.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:31.35,0:52:34.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The disproportionate\Nsurveillance is also
Dialogue: 0,0:52:34.05,0:52:36.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not acceptable.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:36.02,0:52:38.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That surveillance\Nwithout accountability is
Dialogue: 0,0:52:38.65,0:52:41.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not acceptable.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:41.12,0:52:42.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And further, turning
Dialogue: 0,0:52:42.56,0:52:44.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to something a little\Nmore positive,
Dialogue: 0,0:52:44.73,0:52:46.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that there should be\Ntransparency with respect
Dialogue: 0,0:52:46.76,0:52:49.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to policy and its\Nimplementation,
Dialogue: 0,0:52:49.40,0:52:53.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we should be harnessing the\Nexpertise of all stakeholders
Dialogue: 0,0:52:53.20,0:52:56.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to discover better ways\Nto protect citizens
Dialogue: 0,0:52:56.10,0:52:58.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in a global community.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:58.37,0:53:02.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And most importantly,\Nencore to everything we do
Dialogue: 0,0:53:02.58,0:53:05.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we uphold human rights.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:05.15,0:53:07.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so I look forward to\Nthe discussion for the rest
Dialogue: 0,0:53:07.02,0:53:09.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the day, and thank you.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:09.18,0:53:10.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Thank you, Lynn.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:10.12,0:53:10.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Danny?
Dialogue: 0,0:53:10.92,0:53:12.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Thanks, Lance.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:12.26,0:53:16.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, thanks to the Internet\NSociety and GW, Lynn and Lance,
Dialogue: 0,0:53:16.52,0:53:18.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for getting-- Paul for\Ngetting us together.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:18.69,0:53:23.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And at the end of the\Npanel, I'm always reminded
Dialogue: 0,0:53:23.63,0:53:25.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of this very distinguished\Nmember of Congress said
Dialogue: 0,0:53:25.64,0:53:28.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the near the end of a very\Nexcruciatingly long hearing,
Dialogue: 0,0:53:28.37,0:53:31.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,everything's been said but\Nnot every one has said it.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:31.81,0:53:36.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, I subscribe to much\Nof what has been said
Dialogue: 0,0:53:36.75,0:53:39.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by many of my fellow panels.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:39.32,0:53:42.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I want to just make three points
Dialogue: 0,0:53:42.08,0:53:47.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about what I think we've\Nbeen experiencing as a result
Dialogue: 0,0:53:47.09,0:53:49.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of this surveillance\Ndebate over the last month.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:49.46,0:53:54.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think fundamentally what\Nwe've had is a certain degree
Dialogue: 0,0:53:54.43,0:53:57.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of a crisis in confidence\Nand a crisis in trust
Dialogue: 0,0:53:57.97,0:53:59.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about the internet environment.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:59.57,0:54:02.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The question is, should\Nyou trust it or not?
Dialogue: 0,0:54:02.30,0:54:06.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And as Mellissa noted,\Nit's, I think, useful to try
Dialogue: 0,0:54:06.71,0:54:11.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to breakdown to some extent\Nour current sources of trust
Dialogue: 0,0:54:11.05,0:54:14.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the internet in particular,\Nin society in general.
Dialogue: 0,0:54:14.25,0:54:16.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I want to just make three\Npoints about the institutional,
Dialogue: 0,0:54:16.72,0:54:22.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,legal and political levels of\Ntrust that we tend to look to.
Dialogue: 0,0:54:22.29,0:54:25.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,To start with the\Ninstitutional, you heard from--
Dialogue: 0,0:54:25.03,0:54:29.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you heard from John and\Nfrom Lynn about some
Dialogue: 0,0:54:29.90,0:54:32.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the institutions that\Nmake the internet work.
Dialogue: 0,0:54:32.37,0:54:33.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, I think\Nit's interesting
Dialogue: 0,0:54:33.57,0:54:36.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when you look purely\Ntechnically at the internet.
Dialogue: 0,0:54:36.17,0:54:40.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People pretty much trust that\Nthe pack is going to arrive more
Dialogue: 0,0:54:40.31,0:54:41.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or less in the right order.
Dialogue: 0,0:54:41.51,0:54:44.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And enough of them\Nwill get there
Dialogue: 0,0:54:44.25,0:54:45.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that you could get your\Nmessage through it.
Dialogue: 0,0:54:45.51,0:54:46.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can watch video.
Dialogue: 0,0:54:46.78,0:54:49.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We don't-- we don't have a\Nlot of debates about that.
Dialogue: 0,0:54:49.22,0:54:55.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I will note just as a kind of\Na observation of the sociology
Dialogue: 0,0:54:55.39,0:54:57.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in a certain way of people
Dialogue: 0,0:54:57.26,0:54:58.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the internet technical\Ncommunity.
Dialogue: 0,0:54:58.69,0:55:01.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is a sense in some\Nways as Lynn suggested
Dialogue: 0,0:55:01.63,0:55:06.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that if any third party\Ncan get in the middle
Dialogue: 0,0:55:06.77,0:55:10.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of a communication stream\Nbetween two parties,
Dialogue: 0,0:55:10.74,0:55:13.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but that is in a sort of\Nvery idealized sense a
Dialogue: 0,0:55:13.54,0:55:14.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,technical failure.
Dialogue: 0,0:55:14.61,0:55:16.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's the internet\Nnot working properly.
Dialogue: 0,0:55:16.54,0:55:18.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now that's a narrow\Ntechnical view
Dialogue: 0,0:55:18.48,0:55:19.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the internet environment.
Dialogue: 0,0:55:19.62,0:55:23.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We, of course, have a\Nbroader legal and social
Dialogue: 0,0:55:23.32,0:55:26.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and political view of our\Nsocieties, and we do recognize
Dialogue: 0,0:55:26.66,0:55:30.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that that surveillance\Nand espionage will happen.
Dialogue: 0,0:55:30.13,0:55:33.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But part of the challenge, I\Nthink, in closing the trust gap
Dialogue: 0,0:55:33.70,0:55:36.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we have is to articulate\Nbetter what those sorts
Dialogue: 0,0:55:36.23,0:55:37.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of expectations are.
Dialogue: 0,0:55:37.53,0:55:39.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We do have administrative\Ninstitutions
Dialogue: 0,0:55:39.44,0:55:41.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like that run the\Ndomain name service
Dialogue: 0,0:55:41.34,0:55:42.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and IP address assignment.
Dialogue: 0,0:55:42.60,0:55:44.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thanks to people like John.
Dialogue: 0,0:55:44.11,0:55:45.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They just kind of worked--
Dialogue: 0,0:55:45.17,0:55:46.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people grumble about\NI can't [phonetic].
Dialogue: 0,0:55:46.91,0:55:49.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But so far, you know, people\Nare getting new domain names.
Dialogue: 0,0:55:49.54,0:55:50.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They are being maintained.
Dialogue: 0,0:55:50.78,0:55:55.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Nothing has completely\Nfallen apart at that point.
Dialogue: 0,0:55:55.48,0:55:56.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What I think is more complicated
Dialogue: 0,0:55:56.79,0:56:00.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the institutional trust\Nfront is that in many cases,
Dialogue: 0,0:56:00.09,0:56:01.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we're used to looking\Nto government
Dialogue: 0,0:56:01.66,0:56:04.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to establish trustworthiness\Nin society.
Dialogue: 0,0:56:04.39,0:56:06.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And certainly governments\Nbelieve their job is
Dialogue: 0,0:56:06.26,0:56:09.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to establish trustworthiness\Nin society.
Dialogue: 0,0:56:09.30,0:56:12.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But as you've heard, many\Nof our sources of trust
Dialogue: 0,0:56:12.30,0:56:14.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the internet are\Nactually not governmental.
Dialogue: 0,0:56:14.14,0:56:17.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They are working perfectly well\Nlargely without governments.
Dialogue: 0,0:56:17.91,0:56:20.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I'll come back\Nand talk about that.
Dialogue: 0,0:56:20.21,0:56:23.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But again because of that\Nsomewhat unusual circumstance
Dialogue: 0,0:56:23.31,0:56:27.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that Lynn alluded to, these\Nmultistakeholder processes,
Dialogue: 0,0:56:27.05,0:56:30.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we probably have to understand\Nthat a little bit better
Dialogue: 0,0:56:30.82,0:56:34.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so that people can trust\Nthose environments.
Dialogue: 0,0:56:34.12,0:56:37.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, on the-- when we\Nlook at legal institutions,
Dialogue: 0,0:56:37.23,0:56:39.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we rely a lot on our\Nlegal institutions
Dialogue: 0,0:56:39.20,0:56:42.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to establish trust in society.
Dialogue: 0,0:56:42.06,0:56:44.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We hope that our legal\Ninstitutions make it
Dialogue: 0,0:56:44.37,0:56:47.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so that most people and most\Ninstitutions mostly do the right
Dialogue: 0,0:56:47.84,0:56:48.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,thing most of the time.
Dialogue: 0,0:56:48.77,0:56:50.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We don't expect perfection
Dialogue: 0,0:56:50.10,0:56:53.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but we do expect our legal\Ninstitutions to set standards
Dialogue: 0,0:56:53.11,0:56:55.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that there are consequences\Nwhen they're not followed.
Dialogue: 0,0:56:55.14,0:56:58.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think when we look at\Nthe privacy issues raised
Dialogue: 0,0:56:58.15,0:57:00.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by the current surveillance\Npractices
Dialogue: 0,0:57:00.78,0:57:04.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that had been revealed, the\Nproblem that we have, I believe,
Dialogue: 0,0:57:04.42,0:57:08.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that every one would like\Nthere to be a sense of privacy
Dialogue: 0,0:57:08.09,0:57:09.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in our communications\Nenvironment.
Dialogue: 0,0:57:09.96,0:57:11.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I think we have a real--
Dialogue: 0,0:57:11.79,0:57:16.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a lot of confusion about\Njust what that ought to mean.
Dialogue: 0,0:57:16.80,0:57:18.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We tend to think about\Nprivacy particularly
Dialogue: 0,0:57:18.97,0:57:22.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the computer network\Nenvironment as being able
Dialogue: 0,0:57:22.34,0:57:23.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to keep things secret.
Dialogue: 0,0:57:23.87,0:57:26.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, I think we all understand\Nnow that we don't have a lot
Dialogue: 0,0:57:26.21,0:57:30.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of secrets, and we rely\Non lots of third parties
Dialogue: 0,0:57:30.01,0:57:33.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to maintain our information.
Dialogue: 0,0:57:33.28,0:57:38.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, we don't keep secrets as\Nwell as we may be used to.
Dialogue: 0,0:57:38.22,0:57:40.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And my own view is that that\Nmeans we have to start thinking
Dialogue: 0,0:57:40.92,0:57:43.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about privacy more as a question
Dialogue: 0,0:57:43.12,0:57:47.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of whether information is used\Nproperly whether it's misused,
Dialogue: 0,0:57:47.03,0:57:48.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whether it's used
Dialogue: 0,0:57:48.03,0:57:50.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to discriminate unfairly\Nagainst people.
Dialogue: 0,0:57:50.23,0:57:53.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But that's going to require\Ncertain amount of discussion.
Dialogue: 0,0:57:53.67,0:57:55.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Lots of people have\Nmentioned accountability.
Dialogue: 0,0:57:55.37,0:57:58.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We're going to need better\Naccountability mechanisms
Dialogue: 0,0:57:58.24,0:58:00.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for these more complex\Nprivacy rules.
Dialogue: 0,0:58:00.41,0:58:03.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When privacy is not\Na binary phenomenon
Dialogue: 0,0:58:03.31,0:58:07.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that is either it's secret or\Nit's not, we need mechanisms
Dialogue: 0,0:58:07.72,0:58:11.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to assure trust in the way\Npersonal information is handled.
Dialogue: 0,0:58:11.79,0:58:14.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think there's a very\Nsimple analogy actually
Dialogue: 0,0:58:14.42,0:58:17.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we can draw from\Nthe financial world.
Dialogue: 0,0:58:17.39,0:58:20.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Huge parts of our economy,
Dialogue: 0,0:58:20.10,0:58:23.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,huge parts of the\Nworld's economy run based
Dialogue: 0,0:58:23.80,0:58:26.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on a pretty well understand\Nset of accounting rules.
Dialogue: 0,0:58:26.30,0:58:29.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We're used to looking at\Nbalance sheets for corporations
Dialogue: 0,0:58:29.20,0:58:30.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and having some sense of trust
Dialogue: 0,0:58:30.64,0:58:32.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that those balance sheets\Nreflect what's actually going
Dialogue: 0,0:58:32.81,0:58:35.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on in the financial life\Nof the corporations.
Dialogue: 0,0:58:35.11,0:58:37.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We don't expect to see\Nall the transactions
Dialogue: 0,0:58:37.51,0:58:40.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the general ledger in order\Nto look and get a picture
Dialogue: 0,0:58:40.12,0:58:43.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of whether the corporation is\Nprofitable, not profitable,
Dialogue: 0,0:58:43.28,0:58:46.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,paying its taxes\Ncorrectly, not, et cetera.
Dialogue: 0,0:58:46.42,0:58:48.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now there are-- this doesn't\Nalways work perfectly,
Dialogue: 0,0:58:48.76,0:58:50.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I the analogy particularly
Dialogue: 0,0:58:50.93,0:58:56.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the NSA surveillance\Nsituation is quite strong.
Dialogue: 0,0:58:56.53,0:58:59.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We do as citizens of the\NUnited States want to be able
Dialogue: 0,0:58:59.40,0:59:01.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to have a sense of confidence
Dialogue: 0,0:59:01.17,0:59:05.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that our intelligence agencies\Nare following the rules
Dialogue: 0,0:59:05.27,0:59:06.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that they say they're following.
Dialogue: 0,0:59:06.64,0:59:10.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My guess is they probably do\Nabout 90 percent of the time.
Dialogue: 0,0:59:10.08,0:59:12.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But we want to know that\Nthere's some accountability
Dialogue: 0,0:59:12.11,0:59:13.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to those rules.
Dialogue: 0,0:59:13.38,0:59:16.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think we understand that\Nwe're not going to be able
Dialogue: 0,0:59:16.28,0:59:22.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to send auditors, independent\Nauditors inside classified
Dialogue: 0,0:59:22.82,0:59:25.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,environments and can have\Nthem come back and report
Dialogue: 0,0:59:25.49,0:59:26.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on everything they found.
Dialogue: 0,0:59:26.83,0:59:29.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But if we follow this balance\Nsheet model, if we follow
Dialogue: 0,0:59:29.03,0:59:32.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to a methodology of assessing\Nhow information is used,
Dialogue: 0,0:59:32.20,0:59:34.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we can get that sense\Nof trust back.
Dialogue: 0,0:59:34.84,0:59:39.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And finally, as a\Nmatter of political trust
Dialogue: 0,0:59:39.81,0:59:41.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and by political,\NI don't mean kind
Dialogue: 0,0:59:41.81,0:59:43.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of small P Washington politics.
Dialogue: 0,0:59:43.75,0:59:45.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I really mean politics\Nin the sense
Dialogue: 0,0:59:45.78,0:59:48.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of how we organize\Nourselves as a society.
Dialogue: 0,0:59:48.92,0:59:54.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As people on this\Npanel have noted,
Dialogue: 0,0:59:54.42,0:59:57.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,our sources of political\Ntrust are complicated
Dialogue: 0,0:59:57.39,1:00:00.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the internet environment\Nand unusual.
Dialogue: 0,1:00:00.03,1:00:01.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We are used to the\Nidea of states
Dialogue: 0,1:00:01.70,1:00:06.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of government's exercising\Nauthority directly
Dialogue: 0,1:00:06.37,1:00:10.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on institutions often\Non intermediaries,
Dialogue: 0,1:00:10.54,1:00:12.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but in the internet\Nworld and we're--
Dialogue: 0,1:00:12.88,1:00:15.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and if you considered\Nthe analogy
Dialogue: 0,1:00:15.08,1:00:19.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,between telephone\Nnetworks in the past
Dialogue: 0,1:00:19.21,1:00:22.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and internet service providers\Ntoday, telephone networks,
Dialogue: 0,1:00:22.35,1:00:24.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,broadcast networks were\Nreally creatures of the state.
Dialogue: 0,1:00:24.92,1:00:28.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They were authorized by\Nthe actions of legislatures
Dialogue: 0,1:00:28.79,1:00:32.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and therefore controlled in that\Nway at the local state federal
Dialogue: 0,1:00:32.90,1:00:35.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and even international\Nlegal level.
Dialogue: 0,1:00:35.100,1:00:38.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The internet doesn't--\Nhas not happened that way,
Dialogue: 0,1:00:38.57,1:00:42.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it was not a creature of the\Nstate ever, it was really
Dialogue: 0,1:00:42.24,1:00:46.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in many ways a creature of\Nindividual and voluntary action
Dialogue: 0,1:00:46.71,1:00:50.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by some people on this panel,\Nby others all around the world
Dialogue: 0,1:00:50.28,1:00:54.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who participate in making this\Ninternet institutions work.
Dialogue: 0,1:00:54.02,1:00:57.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But now when we're\Nnervous about how they work
Dialogue: 0,1:00:57.35,1:00:59.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and how the state work\Nwe have rethink some
Dialogue: 0,1:00:59.72,1:01:00.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of these relationships.
Dialogue: 0,1:01:00.86,1:01:06.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, we're going to have\Nto get use to the fact
Dialogue: 0,1:01:06.10,1:01:10.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that governments-- I\Nwould submit cannot reach
Dialogue: 0,1:01:10.43,1:01:12.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,into these internet institutions
Dialogue: 0,1:01:12.17,1:01:15.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like the internet engineering\Ntest force like I can--
Dialogue: 0,1:01:15.14,1:01:17.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like the worldwide\Nweb consortium
Dialogue: 0,1:01:17.51,1:01:19.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and achieve exactly\Nthe result they want.
Dialogue: 0,1:01:19.88,1:01:23.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But of course at the same time\Ngovernments will make laws
Dialogue: 0,1:01:23.38,1:01:27.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and rules about how individuals\Nand corporations act whether
Dialogue: 0,1:01:27.75,1:01:29.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for intellectual\Nproperty protection
Dialogue: 0,1:01:29.38,1:01:33.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or privacy protection\Nor anything else.
Dialogue: 0,1:01:33.09,1:01:34.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, I think that what this--
Dialogue: 0,1:01:34.46,1:01:38.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the whole surveillance\Nexperience has revealed is
Dialogue: 0,1:01:38.33,1:01:42.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the rules and expectations
Dialogue: 0,1:01:42.70,1:01:44.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we have are quite\Na bit more nuanced
Dialogue: 0,1:01:44.93,1:01:47.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,than the very binary\Ntechnical behavior
Dialogue: 0,1:01:47.97,1:01:49.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the internet environment.
Dialogue: 0,1:01:49.77,1:01:52.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think our challenge\Nis now to do a better job
Dialogue: 0,1:01:52.34,1:01:54.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of articulating just\Nwhat we expected,
Dialogue: 0,1:01:54.08,1:01:56.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all these different\Ninstitutions at all these levels
Dialogue: 0,1:01:56.21,1:01:58.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and how we're going\Nto find accountability
Dialogue: 0,1:01:58.28,1:02:00.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to those expectations.
Dialogue: 0,1:02:00.52,1:02:02.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thanks.
Dialogue: 0,1:02:02.02,1:02:05.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Thank you Danny and thank\Nyou everybody on the panel.
Dialogue: 0,1:02:05.39,1:02:09.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think what we'll do now,\NI'm going to open up first
Dialogue: 0,1:02:09.09,1:02:11.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the panelist for\Nfive or 10 minutes
Dialogue: 0,1:02:11.36,1:02:15.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so they can ask questions\Nof their fellow panelists,
Dialogue: 0,1:02:15.36,1:02:19.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,make further, you know,\Ncomments, go some back and forth
Dialogue: 0,1:02:19.54,1:02:21.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that way for five or 10 minutes.
Dialogue: 0,1:02:21.44,1:02:23.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In the meantime if\Nyou in the audience,
Dialogue: 0,1:02:23.97,1:02:27.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if you have a question would\Nyou please if you're physically
Dialogue: 0,1:02:27.74,1:02:31.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the audience here\Nat GW step up to one
Dialogue: 0,1:02:31.35,1:02:34.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of these two microphones in\Neither of the isles, form a line
Dialogue: 0,1:02:34.98,1:02:38.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and when your turn comes please\Nstate your name and affiliation
Dialogue: 0,1:02:38.65,1:02:41.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then ask your question.
Dialogue: 0,1:02:41.86,1:02:45.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you are in the internet\Nworld, if you're off
Dialogue: 0,1:02:45.13,1:02:49.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the clouds somewhere and\Nwant to communicate send it in,
Dialogue: 0,1:02:49.30,1:02:52.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Paul any other directions\Non that
Dialogue: 0,1:02:52.27,1:02:54.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or you have some\Nquestions already?
Dialogue: 0,1:02:54.47,1:02:57.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,While you're waiting, I want to\Ngive the panelist a chance first
Dialogue: 0,1:02:57.41,1:02:59.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but any other protocol?
Dialogue: 0,1:02:59.54,1:03:06.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> So, they type the\Nquestions into live stream
Dialogue: 0,1:03:06.82,1:03:09.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I'll be reading them\Nhere at one of these mics.
Dialogue: 0,1:03:09.25,1:03:11.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, that's for the\Nlive stream panelists.
Dialogue: 0,1:03:11.52,1:03:14.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In New York they can just line\Nup at their microphone there.
Dialogue: 0,1:03:14.72,1:03:16.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> In New York they can\Nline up their microphone
Dialogue: 0,1:03:16.42,1:03:17.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we'll see them\Nlive up there?
Dialogue: 0,1:03:17.59,1:03:18.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> We'll see them,\Nyes, that's right.
Dialogue: 0,1:03:18.49,1:03:19.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> OK.
Dialogue: 0,1:03:19.06,1:03:19.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Very good.
Dialogue: 0,1:03:19.63,1:03:20.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> All right.
Dialogue: 0,1:03:20.40,1:03:21.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This will be interesting.
Dialogue: 0,1:03:21.23,1:03:23.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OK, but first let's get to the--
Dialogue: 0,1:03:23.40,1:03:27.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,give the panelists a chance\Nto ask questions, Leslie?
Dialogue: 0,1:03:27.50,1:03:31.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> So, I want to ask a question\Nof Danny because talking
Dialogue: 0,1:03:31.87,1:03:35.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about the concern or persuading\Npeople that, you know,
Dialogue: 0,1:03:35.88,1:03:38.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,winning people of off\Ngovernment is sort
Dialogue: 0,1:03:38.38,1:03:41.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the governance structure\Nfor the internet and trying
Dialogue: 0,1:03:41.65,1:03:44.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to educate them that it's\Nnot really government,
Dialogue: 0,1:03:44.25,1:03:47.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's all of these other\Ninstitutions and we do them
Dialogue: 0,1:03:47.19,1:03:49.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in a multi-stakeholder\Nway and many people
Dialogue: 0,1:03:49.76,1:03:52.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,up here have spent\Nconsiderable time trying
Dialogue: 0,1:03:52.86,1:03:55.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to move people to that model.
Dialogue: 0,1:03:55.90,1:03:58.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It just seems to\Nme that the rest
Dialogue: 0,1:03:58.27,1:04:00.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the world right now is going\Nto think we've been involved
Dialogue: 0,1:04:00.80,1:04:02.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in a slight of hand
Dialogue: 0,1:04:02.07,1:04:06.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that basically we're\Nsaying governments stay out,
Dialogue: 0,1:04:06.21,1:04:10.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,governments don't get\Ntoo involved here.
Dialogue: 0,1:04:10.01,1:04:13.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,All these other into multi\Nstakeholder institutions are
Dialogue: 0,1:04:13.18,1:04:15.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,really the core of\Nthe internet and then
Dialogue: 0,1:04:15.08,1:04:18.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the same time\Nbuilding an environment
Dialogue: 0,1:04:18.02,1:04:21.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where the United States\Nuses historically--
Dialogue: 0,1:04:21.56,1:04:25.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,historical dominance
Dialogue: 0,1:04:25.23,1:04:28.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to basically trump all\Nof those governance.
Dialogue: 0,1:04:28.23,1:04:31.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, I hear what you're saying\Nbut it was a hard argument
Dialogue: 0,1:04:31.80,1:04:34.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to make to the rest of\Nthe world beforehand.
Dialogue: 0,1:04:34.10,1:04:36.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm just curious\Nwhether you're continuing
Dialogue: 0,1:04:36.40,1:04:38.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to say it with a straight face.
Dialogue: 0,1:04:38.21,1:04:39.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I'm having trouble.
Dialogue: 0,1:04:39.14,1:04:41.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> It's a habit.
Dialogue: 0,1:04:41.44,1:04:47.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I guess what I would say\Nis the ability to make
Dialogue: 0,1:04:47.28,1:04:49.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that argument really\Ndepends on--
Dialogue: 0,1:04:49.78,1:04:51.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as several people\Nhave said the layer
Dialogue: 0,1:04:51.95,1:04:53.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at which you're making\Nthe argument.
Dialogue: 0,1:04:53.36,1:05:00.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't believe that the NSA\Nsurveillance changes one bit the
Dialogue: 0,1:05:00.10,1:05:06.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,question of who should be\Nsetting standards for TCPIP
Dialogue: 0,1:05:06.57,1:05:10.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or who should be determining\Nhow domain names get assigned.
Dialogue: 0,1:05:10.07,1:05:15.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I do believe that as you\Nsaid Leslie that the question
Dialogue: 0,1:05:15.28,1:05:20.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of government espionage\Nactivities whether it's the NSA
Dialogue: 0,1:05:20.25,1:05:26.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or GCHQ or MI5 or, you know,\Nthe German Intelligence Agency,
Dialogue: 0,1:05:26.19,1:05:28.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the French Intelligence\NAgency, anyone of them,
Dialogue: 0,1:05:28.49,1:05:30.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all of which you're doing\Nexactly the same thing.
Dialogue: 0,1:05:30.93,1:05:35.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I do believe that we now have\Nto have a more public discussion
Dialogue: 0,1:05:35.100,1:05:37.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about what our expectations are
Dialogue: 0,1:05:37.63,1:05:39.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for surveillance\Nincluding espionage
Dialogue: 0,1:05:39.84,1:05:42.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the internet environment.
Dialogue: 0,1:05:42.00,1:05:47.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But that shouldn't get confused\Nwith the question of whether all
Dialogue: 0,1:05:47.78,1:05:49.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of a sudden we need\Na treaty about how
Dialogue: 0,1:05:49.78,1:05:51.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to set internet technical\Nstandards.
Dialogue: 0,1:05:51.85,1:05:55.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I believe that, you know,\NI'm highly uncomfortable talking
Dialogue: 0,1:05:55.45,1:05:56.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about the rest of the world.
Dialogue: 0,1:05:56.95,1:06:01.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I think that what we saw in\Nthe internet governance debate
Dialogue: 0,1:06:01.76,1:06:09.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the United Nations at the--\Nin Dubai where the proposition
Dialogue: 0,1:06:09.30,1:06:15.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from Democratic countries like\NIran and China and Russia was
Dialogue: 0,1:06:15.67,1:06:17.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to exert greater control
Dialogue: 0,1:06:17.20,1:06:20.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,over the internet environment\Nwas rejected not just
Dialogue: 0,1:06:20.64,1:06:25.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by the usual suspects, that\Nis the 34 OACD countries
Dialogue: 0,1:06:25.75,1:06:28.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who you could somewhat\Nexpect to do that.
Dialogue: 0,1:06:28.02,1:06:32.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But by another 20 countries,\Nfrom Africa and South Asia
Dialogue: 0,1:06:32.55,1:06:35.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and different parts of\Nthe world, that I think
Dialogue: 0,1:06:35.96,1:06:42.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at Brazil have recognized that\Nwhile we could always do better
Dialogue: 0,1:06:42.90,1:06:44.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the current internet\Ngovernors arrangements
Dialogue: 0,1:06:44.90,1:06:47.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that they're working and\Nmessing with them has a cause
Dialogue: 0,1:06:47.74,1:06:49.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for all those countries.
Dialogue: 0,1:06:49.00,1:06:51.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, I think as long as we\Nkeep these issues distinct
Dialogue: 0,1:06:51.97,1:06:55.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and don't confuse them\NI think there's a way
Dialogue: 0,1:06:55.41,1:06:58.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to have both discussions\Nin a coherent way.
Dialogue: 0,1:06:58.81,1:07:00.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Well, so I agree with you.
Dialogue: 0,1:07:00.08,1:07:00.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> I know you do.
Dialogue: 0,1:07:00.72,1:07:01.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[laughs]
Dialogue: 0,1:07:01.82,1:07:06.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> But it seems to me\Nthe opportunity here
Dialogue: 0,1:07:06.15,1:07:09.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for many countries to\Ncombine them together
Dialogue: 0,1:07:09.16,1:07:11.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to not make them distinct.
Dialogue: 0,1:07:11.39,1:07:14.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The opportunity to\Nreclaim control
Dialogue: 0,1:07:14.60,1:07:17.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by basically bringing\Nthis together.
Dialogue: 0,1:07:17.70,1:07:19.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Sure. So, what\Ndid Russia say?
Dialogue: 0,1:07:19.10,1:07:23.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What did Russia say this-- you\Nknow, Russia said in response
Dialogue: 0,1:07:23.04,1:07:25.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the NSA we need more\Ngovernment control--
Dialogue: 0,1:07:25.21,1:07:26.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Right.
Dialogue: 0,1:07:26.27,1:07:30.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> -- of both the\Ninternet infrastructure
Dialogue: 0,1:07:30.21,1:07:31.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the internet companies.
Dialogue: 0,1:07:31.58,1:07:34.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's a-- I mean, I think the\Nquestion is how does anyone say
Dialogue: 0,1:07:34.22,1:07:35.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that with a straight face
Dialogue: 0,1:07:35.98,1:07:39.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when the concern was undo\Ngovernment intrusion?
Dialogue: 0,1:07:39.42,1:07:42.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But, yeah, I mean it--
Dialogue: 0,1:07:42.02,1:07:45.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people who want to make those\Narguments will find ways
Dialogue: 0,1:07:45.13,1:07:46.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to make them.
Dialogue: 0,1:07:46.83,1:07:50.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> I worry that many of those\Nin between are suddenly going
Dialogue: 0,1:07:50.20,1:07:56.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to become more persuadable\Nbecause of the outrage.
Dialogue: 0,1:07:56.84,1:08:00.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> So, I have a question\Nfor my fellow panelists.
Dialogue: 0,1:08:00.31,1:08:04.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's sort of following\Nwhat Danny just raised.
Dialogue: 0,1:08:04.21,1:08:07.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In December we had an\Ninteresting conference,
Dialogue: 0,1:08:07.18,1:08:09.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the World Conference
Dialogue: 0,1:08:09.88,1:08:12.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on International\NTelecommunications.
Dialogue: 0,1:08:12.32,1:08:15.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'll use the acronym\NWCIT not 'cause I want
Dialogue: 0,1:08:15.06,1:08:16.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to have the table bounded.
Dialogue: 0,1:08:16.56,1:08:18.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I explain the acronym first.
Dialogue: 0,1:08:18.26,1:08:19.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> You did.
Dialogue: 0,1:08:19.33,1:08:20.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> But you hear the\Nterm WCIT so I want
Dialogue: 0,1:08:20.43,1:08:22.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to pronounce it as\Nyou might hear it.
Dialogue: 0,1:08:22.10,1:08:23.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But the World Conference
Dialogue: 0,1:08:23.43,1:08:26.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on International\NTelecommunications was look
Dialogue: 0,1:08:26.40,1:08:28.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at some treaty arrangements.
Dialogue: 0,1:08:28.10,1:08:29.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, some tariffs.
Dialogue: 0,1:08:29.40,1:08:33.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Regarding interconnection\Nand there were number
Dialogue: 0,1:08:33.11,1:08:36.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of very interesting proposals\Nthat shut up in Dubai.
Dialogue: 0,1:08:36.28,1:08:41.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I'm struck by the\Ntiming because that happened
Dialogue: 0,1:08:41.28,1:08:46.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and now we now have a lot of\Nevents regarding surveillance
Dialogue: 0,1:08:46.92,1:08:49.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then I say and\Nso on and so forth.
Dialogue: 0,1:08:49.62,1:08:52.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I guess with my panelists\NI'd ask the question,
Dialogue: 0,1:08:52.23,1:08:56.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,does anyone care to speculate\Nif water had been reversed?
Dialogue: 0,1:08:56.63,1:08:58.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What the outcome\Nwould have been?
Dialogue: 0,1:08:58.17,1:09:01.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because I've had a\Nfew people suggest
Dialogue: 0,1:09:01.04,1:09:03.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that that's an interesting\Nexercise.
Dialogue: 0,1:09:03.90,1:09:08.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I am not sure whether or not\Nthe outcome that we had in Dubai
Dialogue: 0,1:09:08.48,1:09:12.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in December is what\Nwe would be seeing
Dialogue: 0,1:09:12.91,1:09:16.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if in fact it was being\Ndone instead next month.
Dialogue: 0,1:09:16.45,1:09:17.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Hold on, that was my concern.
Dialogue: 0,1:09:17.79,1:09:21.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's my concern.
Dialogue: 0,1:09:21.12,1:09:26.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, I think that if you\Nlook at the World Conference
Dialogue: 0,1:09:26.49,1:09:30.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on International\NTelecommunications,
Dialogue: 0,1:09:30.20,1:09:34.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it was an important treaty\Nnegotiation, renegotiation
Dialogue: 0,1:09:34.77,1:09:41.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that hadn't been renegotiated\Nsince 1988, is that right?
Dialogue: 0,1:09:41.14,1:09:45.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,'88. And as Americans we look\Nat these negotiations as one--
Dialogue: 0,1:09:45.61,1:09:52.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as a one negotiation and I think\Nthat that's a poor perspective
Dialogue: 0,1:09:52.59,1:09:56.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because the WCIT was really
Dialogue: 0,1:09:56.06,1:10:01.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about how does one monetize\Nthe internet and to pay
Dialogue: 0,1:10:01.03,1:10:03.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for court infrastructure.
Dialogue: 0,1:10:03.36,1:10:09.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it is one of a multi-series\Nof negotiations, the world--
Dialogue: 0,1:10:09.44,1:10:13.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there's another\Ntelecommunications conference
Dialogue: 0,1:10:13.84,1:10:17.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on policy, WTPF, it\Njust happened in Geneva
Dialogue: 0,1:10:17.21,1:10:20.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they'll be the world\Nsummit on information society
Dialogue: 0,1:10:20.45,1:10:24.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that will be culminating\Nin 2014 I think, right?
Dialogue: 0,1:10:24.75,1:10:26.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,2014, '15.
Dialogue: 0,1:10:26.12,1:10:27.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> So on, yup.
Dialogue: 0,1:10:27.39,1:10:31.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> And there will be 24\Nnegotiations to go between now
Dialogue: 0,1:10:31.09,1:10:35.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then that will ultimately\Nbe where things will land.
Dialogue: 0,1:10:35.83,1:10:37.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then from-- the world summit
Dialogue: 0,1:10:37.30,1:10:39.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on information society\Nwill be the strategy
Dialogue: 0,1:10:39.47,1:10:43.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by which will be executed\Nin the WTPF for policy.
Dialogue: 0,1:10:43.47,1:10:48.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The WCIT for regulation and\Nin the internet standards--
Dialogue: 0,1:10:48.14,1:10:50.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the international\Nstandards organization
Dialogue: 0,1:10:50.21,1:10:53.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for the overall technology.
Dialogue: 0,1:10:53.28,1:10:57.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, I think if you are a\Nperson in the corporate world
Dialogue: 0,1:10:57.45,1:10:59.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you're worried about these\Nthings you shouldn't just look
Dialogue: 0,1:10:59.69,1:11:01.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at one of these forums\Nas one off.
Dialogue: 0,1:11:01.79,1:11:03.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And if you're worried about it
Dialogue: 0,1:11:03.19,1:11:05.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from a government perspective\Nit's not just the policy forum
Dialogue: 0,1:11:05.23,1:11:07.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where the regulatory forum,\Nit's all of this forum
Dialogue: 0,1:11:07.50,1:11:08.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they're all interconnected.
Dialogue: 0,1:11:08.83,1:11:12.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, I would say that yes, I\Nthink you actually suggested
Dialogue: 0,1:11:12.57,1:11:15.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that it was a positive outcome\Nat WCIT in Dubai and I think
Dialogue: 0,1:11:15.77,1:11:19.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the United States lost\Nin that negotiation but--
Dialogue: 0,1:11:19.24,1:11:23.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I think that the United\NStates and many are going
Dialogue: 0,1:11:23.11,1:11:26.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to continue to lose and it's\Ngoing to be a quick erosion
Dialogue: 0,1:11:26.35,1:11:31.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of our stance not a slower\Nversion of our stance.
Dialogue: 0,1:11:31.49,1:11:34.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> I'll take one more\Nquestion from the panel.
Dialogue: 0,1:11:34.46,1:11:36.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Any other panelist has\Na question before we go
Dialogue: 0,1:11:36.56,1:11:39.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,out to the audience?
Dialogue: 0,1:11:39.33,1:11:42.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Going once?
Dialogue: 0,1:11:43.76,1:11:45.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OK.
Dialogue: 0,1:11:45.33,1:11:47.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Mike Nelson with\NBloomberg Government
Dialogue: 0,1:11:47.37,1:11:49.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and with Georgetown University.
Dialogue: 0,1:11:49.14,1:11:51.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I want to commend the internet\Nsociety for great panel,
Dialogue: 0,1:11:51.67,1:11:53.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we got the lawyers,\Nwe've got the techies,
Dialogue: 0,1:11:53.71,1:11:56.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we've got the scholars,\Nwe've got the activists,
Dialogue: 0,1:11:56.58,1:11:59.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that's great but we\Ntend here in Washington
Dialogue: 0,1:11:59.35,1:12:00.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to talk about the policy.
Dialogue: 0,1:12:00.92,1:12:03.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And Danny I tweeted your--
Dialogue: 0,1:12:03.68,1:12:06.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a [inaudible] of your talk\Nwhich I thought was exceptional.
Dialogue: 0,1:12:06.96,1:12:08.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that was--
Dialogue: 0,1:12:08.89,1:12:10.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> You got it to 142 characters?
Dialogue: 0,1:12:10.79,1:12:12.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Less than that.
Dialogue: 0,1:12:12.63,1:12:17.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But you basically said, data\Nwill flow, we can't really focus
Dialogue: 0,1:12:17.77,1:12:20.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as we used to on\Ncontrolling that flow,
Dialogue: 0,1:12:20.40,1:12:25.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we have to control the\Nmisuse of that data.
Dialogue: 0,1:12:25.07,1:12:27.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Policy makers are starting\Nto understand that.
Dialogue: 0,1:12:27.88,1:12:30.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I think we also\Nhave to figure out a way
Dialogue: 0,1:12:30.48,1:12:33.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that techies can start\Nimplementing systems
Dialogue: 0,1:12:33.65,1:12:35.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that reflect that.
Dialogue: 0,1:12:35.15,1:12:38.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the first way to\Ndo that is to make sure
Dialogue: 0,1:12:38.25,1:12:41.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that systems are more\Ntransparent so that we can see
Dialogue: 0,1:12:41.59,1:12:44.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where data is being misused.
Dialogue: 0,1:12:44.46,1:12:47.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I guess I'd challenge the\Naudience to think about privacy,
Dialogue: 0,1:12:47.83,1:12:50.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not to tell the audience\Nand the panel to think
Dialogue: 0,1:12:50.83,1:12:53.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about transparency by design.
Dialogue: 0,1:12:53.87,1:12:57.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We've heard about privacy by\Ndesign but has anybody thought
Dialogue: 0,1:12:57.50,1:13:00.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of examples of where we're\Nbuilding in the transparencies
Dialogue: 0,1:13:00.64,1:13:03.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so its in the technology\Nand other places
Dialogue: 0,1:13:03.14,1:13:05.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where we could do that better?
Dialogue: 0,1:13:05.08,1:13:08.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Just an open question.
Dialogue: 0,1:13:08.02,1:13:09.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Laura?
Dialogue: 0,1:13:09.42,1:13:13.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> OK. I think that's a really\Ngreat question and a good point.
Dialogue: 0,1:13:13.42,1:13:16.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'll give one example of where\NI think the transparency is
Dialogue: 0,1:13:16.86,1:13:18.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,excellent and then\Na couple of examples
Dialogue: 0,1:13:18.69,1:13:21.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where I think we need\Nmore transparency.
Dialogue: 0,1:13:21.26,1:13:24.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What is one of the oldest and\Nmost vulnerable institutions
Dialogue: 0,1:13:24.23,1:13:25.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of internet governance?
Dialogue: 0,1:13:25.60,1:13:28.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The internet engineering\Ntaskforce jumps to mind.
Dialogue: 0,1:13:28.74,1:13:30.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, this is the-- one
Dialogue: 0,1:13:30.04,1:13:32.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the standard setting\Norganizations for the internet.
Dialogue: 0,1:13:32.94,1:13:34.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are many others\Nbut they have set many
Dialogue: 0,1:13:34.68,1:13:39.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the core standards so they\Nhave a tradition of being open
Dialogue: 0,1:13:39.81,1:13:41.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in three different ways.
Dialogue: 0,1:13:41.25,1:13:44.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They're open in the\Ndevelopment of a standard
Dialogue: 0,1:13:44.05,1:13:46.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that anyone can participate.
Dialogue: 0,1:13:46.22,1:13:49.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, granted there are a lot\Nof barriers to participation,
Dialogue: 0,1:13:49.19,1:13:51.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it requires a lot of\Ntechnical knowledge,
Dialogue: 0,1:13:51.46,1:13:54.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it requires in many\Ncases money to go to some
Dialogue: 0,1:13:54.93,1:13:57.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the events in time.
Dialogue: 0,1:13:57.06,1:13:59.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But it is basically\Nopen to anyone.
Dialogue: 0,1:13:59.73,1:14:02.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They are also open\Nand transparent
Dialogue: 0,1:14:02.37,1:14:04.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in that the actual\Nspecification.
Dialogue: 0,1:14:04.74,1:14:06.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, a standard is\Nnot really software
Dialogue: 0,1:14:06.51,1:14:09.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or hardware specifications\Nthat are written down
Dialogue: 0,1:14:09.38,1:14:11.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and people can go\Nonline and view them.
Dialogue: 0,1:14:11.55,1:14:14.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, I would differ with some\Nof the panelists and say that,
Dialogue: 0,1:14:14.52,1:14:17.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Oh the technology\Nis-- it is political."
Dialogue: 0,1:14:17.92,1:14:22.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, the technology designers\Nmake political decisions
Dialogue: 0,1:14:22.02,1:14:25.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the design whether they\Nlike to call it that or not.
Dialogue: 0,1:14:25.53,1:14:27.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, sometimes privacy\Nis designed in.
Dialogue: 0,1:14:27.70,1:14:30.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Think about encryption\Nstandards for example.
Dialogue: 0,1:14:30.20,1:14:33.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Think about unique identifiers\Nand the privacy implications.
Dialogue: 0,1:14:33.54,1:14:36.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yet the specification is\Nopen so there are some degree
Dialogue: 0,1:14:36.97,1:14:39.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of accountability where\Npeople can view it.
Dialogue: 0,1:14:39.24,1:14:41.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's also open in\Nthe implementation
Dialogue: 0,1:14:41.44,1:14:44.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because it results in\Nmultiple competing products
Dialogue: 0,1:14:44.38,1:14:46.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that are based on that standard.
Dialogue: 0,1:14:46.25,1:14:47.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, that's an example.
Dialogue: 0,1:14:47.65,1:14:50.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In other cases we don't have a\Nlot of transparency and I agree
Dialogue: 0,1:14:50.72,1:14:52.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with you that we need more.
Dialogue: 0,1:14:52.19,1:14:55.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, here is an example, how do\Nwe look at interconnections?
Dialogue: 0,1:14:55.89,1:14:59.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, this is an area where\NI'm worried because of all
Dialogue: 0,1:14:59.39,1:15:01.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the calls for greater\Ngovernment regulation
Dialogue: 0,1:15:01.56,1:15:03.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of interconnection in an area
Dialogue: 0,1:15:03.10,1:15:06.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that has worked fairly\Nwell up until now.
Dialogue: 0,1:15:06.40,1:15:08.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, part of the reason\Nwe're seeing this calls
Dialogue: 0,1:15:08.54,1:15:10.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for a regulation is that we\Ncan't really see what the
Dialogue: 0,1:15:10.77,1:15:13.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,agreements are between\Nthese private companies.
Dialogue: 0,1:15:13.21,1:15:17.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, I think it would be more\Nhelpful to have transparency
Dialogue: 0,1:15:17.18,1:15:19.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in an area such as that as well\Nas other infrastructure areas.
Dialogue: 0,1:15:19.71,1:15:25.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> So, I want to go\Nback to Danny's premise
Dialogue: 0,1:15:25.99,1:15:28.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which you apparently\Nsupport which seems to be--
Dialogue: 0,1:15:28.86,1:15:32.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,data will flow, everybody\Nwill collect it
Dialogue: 0,1:15:32.56,1:15:34.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we should only\Nfocus on the uses.
Dialogue: 0,1:15:34.40,1:15:36.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's certainly a\Ndiscussion we've had on sort
Dialogue: 0,1:15:36.86,1:15:39.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the consumer side\Nof the ledger?
Dialogue: 0,1:15:39.33,1:15:41.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, Google will\Ncollect it and where we have
Dialogue: 0,1:15:41.40,1:15:44.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to focus our attention\Nis how they're using it.
Dialogue: 0,1:15:44.34,1:15:47.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I have to submit the government\Nis collecting information
Dialogue: 0,1:15:47.54,1:15:52.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and certainly the US government\Ncollecting information really
Dialogue: 0,1:15:52.11,1:15:55.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to-- is subject to-- I mean in\Nour own country it's subject
Dialogue: 0,1:15:55.92,1:15:59.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to this little thing called\Nthe Fourth Amendment and I know
Dialogue: 0,1:15:59.95,1:16:03.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of no case and I stand-- I'm\Nwilling to stand corrected
Dialogue: 0,1:16:03.99,1:16:06.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that says, you can go in--
Dialogue: 0,1:16:06.83,1:16:09.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, this is essentially\Nwhat the governments is arguing
Dialogue: 0,1:16:09.60,1:16:11.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in NSA collection.
Dialogue: 0,1:16:11.23,1:16:15.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And they're calling it\Nacquisition and not collection
Dialogue: 0,1:16:15.84,1:16:19.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that acquiring the\Ninformation is not collection.
Dialogue: 0,1:16:19.51,1:16:24.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that any rights that\Nmight attach don't happen
Dialogue: 0,1:16:24.44,1:16:26.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,until you open and\Nlook at the packets.
Dialogue: 0,1:16:26.28,1:16:29.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't know, you know, I've\Nnever heard anybody come
Dialogue: 0,1:16:29.12,1:16:31.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,into somebody's house, walk\Naway with their desk drawer
Dialogue: 0,1:16:31.52,1:16:33.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and say, "We're acquiring."
Dialogue: 0,1:16:33.86,1:16:37.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,To let you know if we ever\Nget around to looking at it.
Dialogue: 0,1:16:37.66,1:16:41.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so-- Danny and I have\Nsome disagreement although I'm
Dialogue: 0,1:16:41.10,1:16:43.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,getting persuaded\Nmore and more by his--
Dialogue: 0,1:16:43.63,1:16:47.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by the question of use\Nin the commercial side
Dialogue: 0,1:16:47.80,1:16:49.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of this big data world.
Dialogue: 0,1:16:49.84,1:16:52.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But, I'm not willing to go\Nthere in terms of governments.
Dialogue: 0,1:16:52.61,1:16:54.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think it's a really\Ndangerous thing to do.
Dialogue: 0,1:16:54.74,1:17:00.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> So I-- just to\Nclarify, my observation
Dialogue: 0,1:17:00.82,1:17:07.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that data will flow is not\Nmeant as a moral conclusion.
Dialogue: 0,1:17:07.79,1:17:11.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think the extension\Nwhich we choose to put limits
Dialogue: 0,1:17:11.49,1:17:15.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on how much data government\Ncan acquire from those
Dialogue: 0,1:17:15.60,1:17:17.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who have already\Ncollected it, right.
Dialogue: 0,1:17:17.46,1:17:21.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because that's what\Nwe're talking about here,
Dialogue: 0,1:17:21.64,1:17:26.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's very important and I think\Nthat historically we have relied
Dialogue: 0,1:17:26.71,1:17:32.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on technical barriers to large\Nscale information collection
Dialogue: 0,1:17:32.08,1:17:34.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as a way to limit how much\Npower the government has
Dialogue: 0,1:17:34.88,1:17:36.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we don't have those anymore.
Dialogue: 0,1:17:36.22,1:17:38.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, we're going to have\Nto get very explicit
Dialogue: 0,1:17:38.62,1:17:41.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about what limits we think\Ngovernment should have
Dialogue: 0,1:17:41.16,1:17:43.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on both the collection\Nand the use front.
Dialogue: 0,1:17:43.42,1:17:46.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My only observation kind of\Nback to your point Mike is
Dialogue: 0,1:17:46.59,1:17:50.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we are much\Nbetter technically
Dialogue: 0,1:17:50.36,1:17:52.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at managing collection\Nlimitation
Dialogue: 0,1:17:52.73,1:17:54.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,than we are managing\Nuse limitation.
Dialogue: 0,1:17:54.74,1:17:57.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Just as a pure matter\Nof the kinds
Dialogue: 0,1:17:57.04,1:18:00.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of computer science techniques\Nthat we have available
Dialogue: 0,1:18:00.71,1:18:04.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I would submit\Nthat's because, you know,
Dialogue: 0,1:18:04.78,1:18:07.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the computer security community\Ncryptographers have taught us a
Dialogue: 0,1:18:07.78,1:18:12.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,huge amount about how\Nto keep data secret
Dialogue: 0,1:18:12.22,1:18:14.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and control access to data.
Dialogue: 0,1:18:14.16,1:18:17.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's a whole other set\Nof disciplines developing
Dialogue: 0,1:18:17.12,1:18:21.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in computer science that try to\Ncharacterize information usage,
Dialogue: 0,1:18:21.63,1:18:26.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,track information usage,\Nbut it is a different--
Dialogue: 0,1:18:26.13,1:18:30.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but there is less progress\Non that because I think
Dialogue: 0,1:18:30.50,1:18:33.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that that's not a\Nview of privacy
Dialogue: 0,1:18:33.21,1:18:36.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that computer sciences\Nhave previously focused on.
Dialogue: 0,1:18:36.94,1:18:38.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, I think you're\Nexactly right to point
Dialogue: 0,1:18:38.78,1:18:40.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,out that we need\Nmore work there.
Dialogue: 0,1:18:40.58,1:18:41.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> I'd actually hear\Nfrom the techies.
Dialogue: 0,1:18:41.98,1:18:44.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because I wasn't thinking\Nso much about transparency
Dialogue: 0,1:18:44.42,1:18:46.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the institution\Nlevel at layer eight.
Dialogue: 0,1:18:46.49,1:18:48.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I was thinking more\Nthe lower levels.
Dialogue: 0,1:18:48.89,1:18:49.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, like--
Dialogue: 0,1:18:49.96,1:18:51.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Oh, I'll give the--\Nlet me give the--
Dialogue: 0,1:18:51.32,1:18:52.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> -- like route to tracing,\Nyou know, when we send an e-mail
Dialogue: 0,1:18:52.73,1:18:54.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to each other you can find out\Nwhere it balanced along the way.
Dialogue: 0,1:18:54.73,1:18:57.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Let me give the techies\Nabout two minutes before we move
Dialogue: 0,1:18:57.10,1:18:59.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on to another question\Nbecause we will have a chance
Dialogue: 0,1:18:59.43,1:19:02.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to circle back in\Nthe round table again
Dialogue: 0,1:19:02.00,1:19:03.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so we can take another\Nbite at the apple here.
Dialogue: 0,1:19:03.80,1:19:04.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Yeah.
Dialogue: 0,1:19:04.34,1:19:05.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Go ahead.
Dialogue: 0,1:19:05.41,1:19:06.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> I just want to--\Njust very quickly.
Dialogue: 0,1:19:06.77,1:19:08.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Stealing is stealing.
Dialogue: 0,1:19:08.04,1:19:09.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It doesn't matter whether\Nit's in the physical world
Dialogue: 0,1:19:09.58,1:19:11.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or in the cyber world.
Dialogue: 0,1:19:11.48,1:19:16.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, whatever the techniques you\Nhave to collect data of a theft,
Dialogue: 0,1:19:16.18,1:19:18.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the physical world you\Ncan apply the same techniques
Dialogue: 0,1:19:18.95,1:19:20.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the cyber world.
Dialogue: 0,1:19:20.29,1:19:22.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The difference is speed.
Dialogue: 0,1:19:22.16,1:19:25.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean it takes me\Nphysically a long time to go in
Dialogue: 0,1:19:25.29,1:19:27.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and steal a laptop from\Nthe gentleman's tester
Dialogue: 0,1:19:27.76,1:19:30.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I can steal all the\Ninformation on his laptop
Dialogue: 0,1:19:30.26,1:19:32.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in a second, probably as long\Nas it took me to do it as long
Dialogue: 0,1:19:32.93,1:19:34.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as I can connect\Nit over the net.
Dialogue: 0,1:19:34.77,1:19:38.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, the comment about\Nthe government, you know,
Dialogue: 0,1:19:38.21,1:19:41.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the search warrant in\Nthe constitution, you should,
Dialogue: 0,1:19:41.18,1:19:42.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you know, that's why it's there.
Dialogue: 0,1:19:42.21,1:19:43.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's why we have\Nthe constitution is
Dialogue: 0,1:19:43.81,1:19:45.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to follow those laws.
Dialogue: 0,1:19:45.01,1:19:47.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And you can still achieve\Nthe same goals and stay
Dialogue: 0,1:19:47.72,1:19:49.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,within the constitutional\Nlimits.
Dialogue: 0,1:19:49.75,1:19:51.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's been done.
Dialogue: 0,1:19:51.12,1:19:54.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's just that what's happened\Nis we got a bunch of people
Dialogue: 0,1:19:54.02,1:19:58.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the policy level that\Ndidn't understand what the
Dialogue: 0,1:19:58.09,1:20:00.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,implications are.
Dialogue: 0,1:20:00.03,1:20:01.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's where-- everything
Dialogue: 0,1:20:01.40,1:20:03.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that they've done\Nhas been legal.
Dialogue: 0,1:20:03.10,1:20:04.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It-- the law is the problem.
Dialogue: 0,1:20:04.33,1:20:06.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Not what whether\Nthey're doing it or that.
Dialogue: 0,1:20:06.60,1:20:08.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> I would question that.
Dialogue: 0,1:20:08.84,1:20:10.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> But--
Dialogue: 0,1:20:10.04,1:20:13.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> OK. I'm going to move\Nthis along because I want
Dialogue: 0,1:20:13.07,1:20:15.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to give Joanne a chance and\NI'm sure Steve is getting a lot
Dialogue: 0,1:20:15.61,1:20:17.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of farther for the round table\Nto come back to just later on.
Dialogue: 0,1:20:17.88,1:20:19.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> So, I don't want\Nto pick up on thing
Dialogue: 0,1:20:19.21,1:20:23.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is the internet has\Na tradition or convention,
Dialogue: 0,1:20:23.82,1:20:28.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I wouldn't say tradition,\Nconvention of protocols
Dialogue: 0,1:20:28.49,1:20:31.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which behave in an open manner.
Dialogue: 0,1:20:31.36,1:20:34.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so, this is for\Nexample, your--
Dialogue: 0,1:20:34.90,1:20:37.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when you're looking at how\Npackets flow, there are commands
Dialogue: 0,1:20:37.46,1:20:40.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like traceroute that let you see\Nhow they go through the internet
Dialogue: 0,1:20:40.17,1:20:43.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you can map them through an\Nexchange point most of the time.
Dialogue: 0,1:20:43.74,1:20:46.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When you look at mail headers,\Nyou can look at e-mail headers
Dialogue: 0,1:20:46.27,1:20:48.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you can actually see,\Nwow that's not my e-mail,
Dialogue: 0,1:20:48.68,1:20:51.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it got from point A to\Npoint B and it's visible
Dialogue: 0,1:20:51.51,1:20:54.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you can see those\Nmost of the time.
Dialogue: 0,1:20:54.28,1:20:57.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When you look at a packet that\Nyou've received you can look
Dialogue: 0,1:20:57.38,1:21:00.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the source address and\Nsay, "Oh, where is that from?"
Dialogue: 0,1:21:00.12,1:21:04.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And you can look it up and\Nfind it most of the time.
Dialogue: 0,1:21:04.02,1:21:06.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, there is no\Nobligations that any
Dialogue: 0,1:21:06.59,1:21:08.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of this information is accurate.
Dialogue: 0,1:21:08.43,1:21:09.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's all sufficiently accurate
Dialogue: 0,1:21:09.90,1:21:12.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to keep the internet\Nrunning or at least so far.
Dialogue: 0,1:21:12.60,1:21:15.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we hope it will\Njust keep it running,
Dialogue: 0,1:21:15.34,1:21:18.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but there's no actual\Nobligations and you need
Dialogue: 0,1:21:18.87,1:21:23.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to be careful because while\Nthere would be some benefit
Dialogue: 0,1:21:23.08,1:21:27.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to having an attribute that says\Nthere's an actual obligation
Dialogue: 0,1:21:27.18,1:21:30.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to make this accurate, then\NI see people emerging saying,
Dialogue: 0,1:21:30.92,1:21:34.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Well, wait a second, now I'm\Nworried about my anonymity
Dialogue: 0,1:21:34.46,1:21:38.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because now you can trace my\NIP, or you can trace my e-mail."
Dialogue: 0,1:21:38.33,1:21:43.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, we have just a\Nconvention of transparency
Dialogue: 0,1:21:43.93,1:21:46.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which has been enough to\Nkeep the internet running.
Dialogue: 0,1:21:46.13,1:21:47.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is a question on\Nwhether or not that's going
Dialogue: 0,1:21:47.84,1:21:50.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to actually work long term.
Dialogue: 0,1:21:50.54,1:21:55.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The point that was made by\NRandy which is that the rate
Dialogue: 0,1:21:55.18,1:21:58.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at which you can attack\Nsomething digitally is a lot
Dialogue: 0,1:21:58.38,1:21:59.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,faster than physically.
Dialogue: 0,1:21:59.91,1:22:03.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And this means that the ability\Nto have an accountable internet
Dialogue: 0,1:22:03.45,1:22:07.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where we can actually figure\Nout who sent the bomb threat
Dialogue: 0,1:22:07.82,1:22:11.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or figure out who sent the\Ne-mail which cause the problem
Dialogue: 0,1:22:11.36,1:22:15.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the school is\Npotentially a very large duty
Dialogue: 0,1:22:15.56,1:22:19.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it may require us making\Na tradeoff between anonymity
Dialogue: 0,1:22:19.77,1:22:24.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and curated anonymity in\Norder to have accountability.
Dialogue: 0,1:22:24.14,1:22:26.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Right now it's not\Nclear that one
Dialogue: 0,1:22:26.17,1:22:27.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or the other is the\Nright answer.
Dialogue: 0,1:22:27.98,1:22:31.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> So, we may-- we'll circle\Nback to this in the round table.
Dialogue: 0,1:22:31.24,1:22:34.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Let me move on to the\Nnext question over here.
Dialogue: 0,1:22:34.75,1:22:38.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> All right, I'm [inaudible]\Ncofounder of Codex for Africa.
Dialogue: 0,1:22:38.85,1:22:40.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is more to as\Nthe techie side too
Dialogue: 0,1:22:40.92,1:22:43.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but at the same time\Nfrom a global view.
Dialogue: 0,1:22:43.26,1:22:47.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We represent thousand\Nof developers in Africa,
Dialogue: 0,1:22:47.70,1:22:49.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the upcoming years it's going
Dialogue: 0,1:22:49.76,1:22:51.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to be more software\Ndevelopers who're are going
Dialogue: 0,1:22:51.83,1:22:56.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to be creating thousands of\Napplications on mobile and web.
Dialogue: 0,1:22:56.07,1:22:59.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And one of the things is what\Nare the strategies there,
Dialogue: 0,1:22:59.51,1:23:03.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when you have emerging countries\Nor emerging economy jumping
Dialogue: 0,1:23:03.08,1:23:06.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on a bag of bandwagon of using\Nthe internet to do transaction
Dialogue: 0,1:23:06.21,1:23:08.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the US or the\Nwestern world.
Dialogue: 0,1:23:08.85,1:23:12.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What do you think what would\Nhappen because I could be
Dialogue: 0,1:23:12.49,1:23:16.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in a country like Synagogue,\Nyou know, do some hacking,
Dialogue: 0,1:23:16.92,1:23:20.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I can do anything I can because\Nyou don't have access to the--
Dialogue: 0,1:23:20.56,1:23:22.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,maybe the continent\Nlevel network.
Dialogue: 0,1:23:22.63,1:23:27.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But as well as the\Nwestern world,
Dialogue: 0,1:23:27.94,1:23:29.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what are your strategies\Nand all that?
Dialogue: 0,1:23:29.80,1:23:33.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Well, this is where\Nthe law comes into play.
Dialogue: 0,1:23:33.61,1:23:35.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What we hear on the\Ntechie side for instance is
Dialogue: 0,1:23:35.58,1:23:38.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of course there is laws\Nin hacking in the US,
Dialogue: 0,1:23:38.34,1:23:41.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but there is no laws\Nin hacking in China,
Dialogue: 0,1:23:41.05,1:23:42.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as we would understand it.
Dialogue: 0,1:23:42.42,1:23:45.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, each country gets to define,\Nyou know, what a hacking is.
Dialogue: 0,1:23:45.82,1:23:49.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Some may take it as an\Nassault against the government
Dialogue: 0,1:23:49.32,1:23:51.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if you are hacking, you know,
Dialogue: 0,1:23:51.19,1:23:54.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,some might just say it's\Na plain and simple theft.
Dialogue: 0,1:23:54.80,1:23:57.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, you're going to have to-- I\Nwould think you'd have to look
Dialogue: 0,1:23:57.13,1:23:59.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at each individual\Ncountry's definition
Dialogue: 0,1:23:59.90,1:24:03.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of what they considered to\Nbe hacking in that case.
Dialogue: 0,1:24:03.50,1:24:07.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, on the other side, again,\Nif you're writing an application
Dialogue: 0,1:24:07.64,1:24:09.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for someone like that then\Nyou're going to do logging,
Dialogue: 0,1:24:09.81,1:24:12.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you're going to do all of this\Ntype of stuff because you want
Dialogue: 0,1:24:12.48,1:24:15.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to provide an auditor\Nif you will
Dialogue: 0,1:24:15.75,1:24:17.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if it's a financial\Napplication with some record
Dialogue: 0,1:24:17.95,1:24:20.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of whatever transactions\Nyour software handles.
Dialogue: 0,1:24:20.65,1:24:23.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, there's always going to be\Na record of something that you--
Dialogue: 0,1:24:23.56,1:24:26.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,either your app did or\Nwhere your app went.
Dialogue: 0,1:24:26.46,1:24:30.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Whether it's accurate or\Nnot that's another question
Dialogue: 0,1:24:30.33,1:24:31.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but there's always\Ngoing to be a record.
Dialogue: 0,1:24:31.63,1:24:34.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And again, metadata\Nanalysis I can use that
Dialogue: 0,1:24:34.64,1:24:35.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and make some inferences
Dialogue: 0,1:24:35.90,1:24:39.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as to what you did even\Nthough I can't see what you--
Dialogue: 0,1:24:39.04,1:24:43.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what's in your individual\Npackets if you encrypted them.
Dialogue: 0,1:24:43.51,1:24:44.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> John?
Dialogue: 0,1:24:44.58,1:24:48.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> So, that's an amazing\Nwake up call here.
Dialogue: 0,1:24:48.72,1:24:51.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, we have this internet\Nthat's remarkable.
Dialogue: 0,1:24:51.55,1:24:56.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It allows people to interact,\Npeople in different countries
Dialogue: 0,1:24:56.06,1:24:59.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with different expectations\Nto interact.
Dialogue: 0,1:24:59.06,1:25:00.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And yet, the conventions
Dialogue: 0,1:25:00.100,1:25:06.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by which governments work\Nhaven't evolved fast enough.
Dialogue: 0,1:25:06.67,1:25:10.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The idea that citizen in country\NA is interacting with citizen
Dialogue: 0,1:25:10.20,1:25:14.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in country B and it might be\Nillegal in one country and not
Dialogue: 0,1:25:14.54,1:25:17.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in another is a whole\Nnew concept
Dialogue: 0,1:25:17.11,1:25:19.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that governments are going\Nto take some time to try
Dialogue: 0,1:25:19.91,1:25:21.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to figure out how to deal with.
Dialogue: 0,1:25:21.45,1:25:22.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, we have a problem.
Dialogue: 0,1:25:22.68,1:25:25.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We literally have an\Ninternet that has capabilities
Dialogue: 0,1:25:25.35,1:25:29.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that governments haven't\Ncome to grip on how
Dialogue: 0,1:25:29.22,1:25:32.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to handle their duties\Nand responsibilities.
Dialogue: 0,1:25:32.89,1:25:35.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I know governments\Nhave feel very strongly
Dialogue: 0,1:25:35.43,1:25:38.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about protecting their\Ncitizens against pornography
Dialogue: 0,1:25:38.50,1:25:41.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or against certain\Ntypes of content.
Dialogue: 0,1:25:41.87,1:25:43.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I know governments\Nin other countries
Dialogue: 0,1:25:43.27,1:25:46.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that feel very strongly that\Nthat's up to each citizen.
Dialogue: 0,1:25:46.84,1:25:49.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But the reality is that that\Nintersection has now happened
Dialogue: 0,1:25:49.94,1:25:51.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because of the internet.
Dialogue: 0,1:25:51.14,1:25:53.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Two governments can have\Nvery different views
Dialogue: 0,1:25:53.95,1:25:56.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on what their responsibilities\Nof their citizens are.
Dialogue: 0,1:25:56.82,1:26:00.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, to answer your\Nquestion in a general case,
Dialogue: 0,1:26:00.39,1:26:02.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the internets move\Nfaster than governments.
Dialogue: 0,1:26:02.02,1:26:04.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Governments literally do\Nnot know how to interact
Dialogue: 0,1:26:04.02,1:26:05.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the situation you describe.
Dialogue: 0,1:26:05.89,1:26:09.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,On a practical matter, if\Nyou end up doing something
Dialogue: 0,1:26:09.40,1:26:13.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of significance, something\Nthat causes a lot of harm
Dialogue: 0,1:26:13.03,1:26:17.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or actually there's a very\Nnice list of types of attacks,
Dialogue: 0,1:26:17.27,1:26:21.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,distraction of property, theft\Nof intellectual property.
Dialogue: 0,1:26:21.78,1:26:25.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's different types\Nof extortion or DDoS,
Dialogue: 0,1:26:25.41,1:26:29.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if you actually do something of\Na major magnitude you'll find
Dialogue: 0,1:26:29.42,1:26:32.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,out that law enforcement does\Ncooperate between countries
Dialogue: 0,1:26:32.12,1:26:33.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it works very well.
Dialogue: 0,1:26:33.52,1:26:36.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's just not set up for\Nthe scale of the internet.
Dialogue: 0,1:26:36.22,1:26:39.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's in the age\Nof the cooperation
Dialogue: 0,1:26:39.56,1:26:41.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,between law enforcement
Dialogue: 0,1:26:41.20,1:26:44.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and various computer\Nresponse teams is one step
Dialogue: 0,1:26:44.90,1:26:48.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,above fax machines ringing\Nand going back and forth.
Dialogue: 0,1:26:48.14,1:26:51.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have the mechanism to\Nhandle the really bad events
Dialogue: 0,1:26:51.54,1:26:53.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,fairly slowly.
Dialogue: 0,1:26:53.07,1:26:55.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We don't have anything\Nto handle the scale
Dialogue: 0,1:26:55.34,1:26:58.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of automatic attacks\Nhappening 24 hours a day
Dialogue: 0,1:26:58.54,1:27:00.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,around the entire\Nglobe which don't--
Dialogue: 0,1:27:00.11,1:27:01.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Let me move to Danny.
Dialogue: 0,1:27:01.68,1:27:03.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He wanted to say something\Nand then I'm going to move
Dialogue: 0,1:27:03.55,1:27:05.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on to the next question.
Dialogue: 0,1:27:05.15,1:27:06.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,By the way, I can't\Nreally talk to anybody
Dialogue: 0,1:27:06.82,1:27:09.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in New York once\NI ask a question.
Dialogue: 0,1:27:09.26,1:27:11.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, what they do I guess\Nthey'll stand up or something
Dialogue: 0,1:27:11.49,1:27:12.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or else go through Paul.
Dialogue: 0,1:27:12.46,1:27:13.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Danny, go ahead.
Dialogue: 0,1:27:13.79,1:27:17.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> I just want to make one\Nobservation about the challenge
Dialogue: 0,1:27:17.96,1:27:23.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of international law\Nenforcement cooperation.
Dialogue: 0,1:27:23.54,1:27:26.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Most people in this room\Nare probably familiar
Dialogue: 0,1:27:26.11,1:27:30.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the SOPA debate that was\Nproposed in United States.
Dialogue: 0,1:27:30.58,1:27:33.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In a certain sense we only\Nhave that debate with all
Dialogue: 0,1:27:33.81,1:27:40.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of its cataclysm because of the\Nfailure of current mechanisms
Dialogue: 0,1:27:40.15,1:27:43.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in international law\Nenforcement cooperation.
Dialogue: 0,1:27:43.02,1:27:45.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have that debate, the\NCongress was considering
Dialogue: 0,1:27:45.59,1:27:50.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that law blocking access
Dialogue: 0,1:27:50.56,1:27:53.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to websites outside\Nthe United States
Dialogue: 0,1:27:53.23,1:27:58.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that might have infringing\Ncontent because people
Dialogue: 0,1:27:58.04,1:27:59.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in Congress were concerned
Dialogue: 0,1:27:59.47,1:28:03.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that US Law Enforcement didn't\Nhave an effective way of working
Dialogue: 0,1:28:03.34,1:28:07.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with law enforcement\Nauthorities from the countries
Dialogue: 0,1:28:07.78,1:28:09.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where the infringement\Nwas actually happening.
Dialogue: 0,1:28:09.85,1:28:16.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think that we have to get a\Nlot better as John is suggesting
Dialogue: 0,1:28:16.26,1:28:18.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at add enforcement cooperation.
Dialogue: 0,1:28:18.86,1:28:21.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are realms where that\Nworks reasonably well but it's--
Dialogue: 0,1:28:21.90,1:28:25.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the problem is it's mostly\Ncooperation in the form of how
Dialogue: 0,1:28:25.63,1:28:30.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to make a criminal conviction\Nagainst someone to stick.
Dialogue: 0,1:28:30.00,1:28:32.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Law enforcement cooperation\Nmechanisms are good
Dialogue: 0,1:28:32.77,1:28:34.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at exchanging evidence,\Nit make sure
Dialogue: 0,1:28:34.54,1:28:37.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that you have the information\Nyou need to, you know,
Dialogue: 0,1:28:37.81,1:28:41.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,bring someone to\Ntrial but not good
Dialogue: 0,1:28:41.22,1:28:45.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at actually stopping\Nthe behavior
Dialogue: 0,1:28:45.22,1:28:47.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that maybe harmful\Nas it's happening.
Dialogue: 0,1:28:47.05,1:28:49.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, I think it's a\Nvery big challenge.
Dialogue: 0,1:28:49.16,1:28:51.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> All right, go to Paul for a--
Dialogue: 0,1:28:51.79,1:28:53.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> I actually did see that\NDavid Salmon [assumed spelling]
Dialogue: 0,1:28:53.73,1:28:57.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the New York Society's\Nchapter president would
Dialogue: 0,1:28:57.13,1:28:58.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like to have a question.
Dialogue: 0,1:28:58.36,1:28:59.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, why don't we go\Nto him if he will--
Dialogue: 0,1:28:59.70,1:29:01.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think they have a\Nlittle bit of a delay.
Dialogue: 0,1:29:01.57,1:29:05.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, he might just be\Nhearing this in a second.
Dialogue: 0,1:29:05.54,1:29:07.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> OK David.
Dialogue: 0,1:29:07.44,1:29:14.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ Inaudible Remark ]
Dialogue: 0,1:29:14.98,1:29:22.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> OK, that's your cue David.
Dialogue: 0,1:29:22.69,1:29:24.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> OK. I'll speak to the\Ncamera then or-- yeah.
Dialogue: 0,1:29:24.56,1:29:26.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OK, so.
Dialogue: 0,1:29:26.46,1:29:34.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ Inaudible Remark ]
Dialogue: 0,1:29:34.00,1:29:36.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OK, we have some delay here.
Dialogue: 0,1:29:36.57,1:29:39.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My question is what sort
Dialogue: 0,1:29:39.44,1:29:41.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of scenarios do our\Npanelists envision
Dialogue: 0,1:29:41.61,1:29:45.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and what would be some\Nalternative solutions
Dialogue: 0,1:29:45.71,1:29:50.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if our government specifically\NCongress is unwilling or unable
Dialogue: 0,1:29:50.42,1:29:54.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to rain in agencies such as the\NNSA in terms of surveillance?
Dialogue: 0,1:29:54.76,1:29:57.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If they can't do\Nit or choose not
Dialogue: 0,1:29:57.06,1:29:58.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to what would be\Nthe consequences?
Dialogue: 0,1:29:58.99,1:30:02.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Are there technical solutions\Nor are there possible solutions
Dialogue: 0,1:30:02.03,1:30:05.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that could be implemented\Nwithout US government?
Dialogue: 0,1:30:05.03,1:30:09.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> OK. The panelists are being--\Nthe panelists are being asked,
Dialogue: 0,1:30:09.80,1:30:11.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is there a work around congress?
Dialogue: 0,1:30:11.60,1:30:15.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> I would just to\Nspeak to it just
Dialogue: 0,1:30:15.08,1:30:16.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as an individual not\Nas a panel member.
Dialogue: 0,1:30:16.94,1:30:18.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But if congress can't rain
Dialogue: 0,1:30:18.31,1:30:21.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the government agency we\Nhave a lot more serious problems
Dialogue: 0,1:30:21.55,1:30:23.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,than what's going\Non in the internet.
Dialogue: 0,1:30:23.58,1:30:28.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> When was the last time\Nwe passed a federal budget?
Dialogue: 0,1:30:28.02,1:30:30.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> I mean, they are\Ngovernment agency.
Dialogue: 0,1:30:30.26,1:30:31.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Congress has to do that.
Dialogue: 0,1:30:31.36,1:30:34.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, again, there is\Nclassified information
Dialogue: 0,1:30:34.70,1:30:37.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and all this other stuff that\Ncan influence how law is passed.
Dialogue: 0,1:30:37.86,1:30:40.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But quite frankly if congress\Ndidn't have that power
Dialogue: 0,1:30:40.97,1:30:43.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to do it then we wouldn't see\NGeneral Alexander making a run
Dialogue: 0,1:30:43.74,1:30:47.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,up to talk to members, I\Nthink was it today or--
Dialogue: 0,1:30:47.17,1:30:48.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> No, it's tomorrow.
Dialogue: 0,1:30:48.48,1:30:49.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Yeah, the vote is tomorrow.
Dialogue: 0,1:30:49.41,1:30:50.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, you know, doing that,
Dialogue: 0,1:30:50.94,1:30:53.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so certainly I would think\Ncongress has the ability to do
Dialogue: 0,1:30:53.78,1:30:56.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and should have the ability or\Nelse we don't have a democracy.
Dialogue: 0,1:30:56.22,1:30:59.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> OK, any other\Npanelist winging on that?
Dialogue: 0,1:30:59.82,1:31:00.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Lynn?
Dialogue: 0,1:31:00.32,1:31:01.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Well--
Dialogue: 0,1:31:01.62,1:31:03.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> You can just say quicker\Nthan I'm-- oh, I'm sorry.
Dialogue: 0,1:31:03.22,1:31:04.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> No please.
Dialogue: 0,1:31:04.32,1:31:06.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> That, you know, there\Nare ways for people
Dialogue: 0,1:31:06.53,1:31:08.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to manage their traffic.
Dialogue: 0,1:31:08.23,1:31:11.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I know I'm certainly certain\Nthat would be even more ways
Dialogue: 0,1:31:11.33,1:31:14.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for people to manage their\Ntraffic and choose the routing.
Dialogue: 0,1:31:14.80,1:31:17.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We actually are quite\Nconcerned about that
Dialogue: 0,1:31:17.14,1:31:20.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because it will make the global\Ninternet much less resilient.
Dialogue: 0,1:31:20.71,1:31:24.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It will-- putting something\Nin a box doesn't mean it's--
Dialogue: 0,1:31:24.54,1:31:29.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it maybe protecting it from\None country actually examine it
Dialogue: 0,1:31:29.15,1:31:31.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but it doesn't protect\Nthe other country.
Dialogue: 0,1:31:31.45,1:31:36.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so, I'm not quite sure\Nwhat David's question was but,
Dialogue: 0,1:31:36.49,1:31:39.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you know, if it's about\Nrouting and the ability to route
Dialogue: 0,1:31:39.93,1:31:42.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,around what you see as a\Nproblem, I think we need
Dialogue: 0,1:31:42.83,1:31:44.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to be very, very\Ncareful about what some
Dialogue: 0,1:31:44.13,1:31:45.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of those potential solutions are
Dialogue: 0,1:31:45.46,1:31:47.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and because I don't think\Nit will address the question
Dialogue: 0,1:31:47.50,1:31:50.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you're-- the problem you're\Ntrying to route around.
Dialogue: 0,1:31:50.00,1:31:54.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And in fact it will overtime\Nmake the global internet much
Dialogue: 0,1:31:54.27,1:31:57.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,less resilient.
Dialogue: 0,1:31:57.04,1:31:58.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Paul?
Dialogue: 0,1:31:58.11,1:31:59.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> OK, I have a question\Nfrom live stream.
Dialogue: 0,1:31:59.88,1:32:01.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's from Garth Gram\N[assumed spelling].
Dialogue: 0,1:32:01.62,1:32:03.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He asks, is the real\Nissue autonomy
Dialogue: 0,1:32:03.85,1:32:06.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and self determined\Nchoice rather than privacy?
Dialogue: 0,1:32:06.59,1:32:09.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And if so, what is\Nthe role of identity
Dialogue: 0,1:32:09.42,1:32:12.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in addressing the\Nissue of trust?
Dialogue: 0,1:32:12.93,1:32:20.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Well, I'll take\None step at that.
Dialogue: 0,1:32:20.63,1:32:24.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think that in the\Ndiscussions of privacy
Dialogue: 0,1:32:24.87,1:32:31.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,over the last 10 years or\Nso, maybe longer I think
Dialogue: 0,1:32:31.78,1:32:36.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we've gotten a little\Nbit distracted by the promise
Dialogue: 0,1:32:36.38,1:32:41.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of individual choice as\Nsomehow the key to privacy.
Dialogue: 0,1:32:41.59,1:32:45.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think that a lot of\Nthe privacy values--
Dialogue: 0,1:32:45.32,1:32:48.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and what I mean by that\Nis the dialogue box is
Dialogue: 0,1:32:48.46,1:32:51.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that everyone sees in, you\Nknow, one website or another
Dialogue: 0,1:32:51.90,1:32:54.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where you have to click here\Nto accept the privacy policy
Dialogue: 0,1:32:54.70,1:32:57.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or swat away a dialogue\Nbox to proceed.
Dialogue: 0,1:32:57.57,1:33:03.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think certainly in-- it's\Nactually a remarkable point
Dialogue: 0,1:33:03.01,1:33:06.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of convergence between the\NUnited States and Europe
Dialogue: 0,1:33:06.18,1:33:10.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the last couple years\Nboth the White House
Dialogue: 0,1:33:10.15,1:33:13.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the Federal Trade Commission\Nissued major privacy policy
Dialogue: 0,1:33:13.62,1:33:16.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,statements that noted\Nthe limitations of this
Dialogue: 0,1:33:16.86,1:33:20.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so called noticing choice or\Nindividual determination model.
Dialogue: 0,1:33:20.29,1:33:23.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The European certainly have\Npointed that out as well.
Dialogue: 0,1:33:23.56,1:33:26.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A lot of the things\Nthat we value associated
Dialogue: 0,1:33:26.33,1:33:27.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with privacy are\Ncollected values.
Dialogue: 0,1:33:27.97,1:33:30.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We want to make sure\Npeople can associate freely,
Dialogue: 0,1:33:30.87,1:33:33.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,can engage in politics,\Ncan engage in commerce,
Dialogue: 0,1:33:33.87,1:33:36.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,can seek medical\Ncare, et cetera.
Dialogue: 0,1:33:36.14,1:33:39.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think that giving\Npeople the choices to opt
Dialogue: 0,1:33:39.85,1:33:42.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,out of those things or\Nsomehow control their identity
Dialogue: 0,1:33:42.75,1:33:45.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when they are trying to\Nspeak to their doctor or make
Dialogue: 0,1:33:45.85,1:33:48.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,up public political\Nstatement really seems
Dialogue: 0,1:33:48.16,1:33:51.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to be exactly the opposite of\Nsome of our core privacy value.
Dialogue: 0,1:33:51.99,1:33:55.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, I think that\Nthere are situations
Dialogue: 0,1:33:55.30,1:33:58.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in which individual\Nautonomy is quite important
Dialogue: 0,1:33:58.13,1:34:00.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but a little bit also to the\Nlast question about the NSA.
Dialogue: 0,1:34:00.90,1:34:04.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't think we get ourselves\Nout of these privacy problems
Dialogue: 0,1:34:04.40,1:34:13.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by just giving people, you\Nknow, 20K long encryption keys
Dialogue: 0,1:34:13.28,1:34:15.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to wield against everyone else.
Dialogue: 0,1:34:15.55,1:34:16.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Laura?
Dialogue: 0,1:34:16.75,1:34:20.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> That's a really\Ninteresting question and I want
Dialogue: 0,1:34:20.89,1:34:22.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to tie it back to something
Dialogue: 0,1:34:22.69,1:34:25.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that I think Danny said\Nbefore about data will flow.
Dialogue: 0,1:34:25.79,1:34:27.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, you know, while\NI agree with that,
Dialogue: 0,1:34:27.73,1:34:30.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's also not necessarily\Nthe case.
Dialogue: 0,1:34:30.80,1:34:34.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have interconnection disputes\Nthat have resulted in outages,
Dialogue: 0,1:34:34.03,1:34:36.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we've had countries\Nthat have cut off access
Dialogue: 0,1:34:36.14,1:34:37.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for their citizens.
Dialogue: 0,1:34:37.44,1:34:39.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have areas of the world\Nthat have infrastructures
Dialogue: 0,1:34:39.81,1:34:41.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of complete censorship.
Dialogue: 0,1:34:41.37,1:34:44.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have digital divide\Nissues, we have trends away
Dialogue: 0,1:34:44.41,1:34:47.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from interoperability where\Nwe're going in the cloud
Dialogue: 0,1:34:47.38,1:34:50.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to more proprietary\Nprotocols for example.
Dialogue: 0,1:34:50.25,1:34:53.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, it's-- so data will\Nnot necessarily flow.
Dialogue: 0,1:34:53.42,1:34:55.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But one of the things\Nthat is required for it
Dialogue: 0,1:34:55.29,1:34:59.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to flow is this issue of trust\Nthat the questioner brought up.
Dialogue: 0,1:34:59.13,1:35:03.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, I think I can mention just\Na couple of areas or maybe three
Dialogue: 0,1:35:03.83,1:35:05.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that are very important.
Dialogue: 0,1:35:05.16,1:35:09.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, the trust has always excited\Nbetween network providers
Dialogue: 0,1:35:09.00,1:35:12.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to exchange information about\NIP addresses that are either
Dialogue: 0,1:35:12.64,1:35:15.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in their control or that they\Ncan reach on the internet.
Dialogue: 0,1:35:15.88,1:35:18.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But we have seen\Nexamples that's done
Dialogue: 0,1:35:18.68,1:35:20.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by through a boarder\Ngateway protocol.
Dialogue: 0,1:35:20.81,1:35:22.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There have been examples
Dialogue: 0,1:35:22.18,1:35:25.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where false routes have been\Nadvertised whether intentionally
Dialogue: 0,1:35:25.45,1:35:28.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or not and outages\Nhave occurred.
Dialogue: 0,1:35:28.56,1:35:31.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, there is-- our effort\Nis underway now to secure
Dialogue: 0,1:35:31.52,1:35:33.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that which are very necessary.
Dialogue: 0,1:35:33.13,1:35:35.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, we have to build\Ntrust into the network.
Dialogue: 0,1:35:35.30,1:35:37.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's not something that\Nwe can just assume.
Dialogue: 0,1:35:37.23,1:35:39.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It has to be designed in,\Nit has to be build in.
Dialogue: 0,1:35:39.90,1:35:42.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The same thing with how the\Ndomain name system works.
Dialogue: 0,1:35:42.90,1:35:45.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have servers located around\Nthe world that resolve queries
Dialogue: 0,1:35:45.97,1:35:50.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of domain names like maybe I'm\Nup here looking at cnn.com,
Dialogue: 0,1:35:50.34,1:35:54.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm not but the domain\Nname server would resolve
Dialogue: 0,1:35:54.01,1:35:57.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that into its IP address\Nand route the information.
Dialogue: 0,1:35:57.05,1:35:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, that can be gamed also
Dialogue: 0,1:35:59.99,1:36:03.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that there can be a\Nfalse return of a query.
Dialogue: 0,1:36:03.22,1:36:06.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, having things like domain\Nname system security extensions
Dialogue: 0,1:36:06.53,1:36:08.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has to be continued\Nto be implemented.
Dialogue: 0,1:36:08.76,1:36:10.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, these are just\Na few of the examples,
Dialogue: 0,1:36:10.100,1:36:14.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,an answer to the question\Nthat it has to be designed in,
Dialogue: 0,1:36:14.97,1:36:18.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,same thing with website\Nauthentication.
Dialogue: 0,1:36:18.10,1:36:21.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If I'm saying that correctly the\Nrole of certificate authorities
Dialogue: 0,1:36:21.91,1:36:24.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and how they verify\Nthrough a digital signatures
Dialogue: 0,1:36:24.31,1:36:27.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that a website is who\Nthe website says it is.
Dialogue: 0,1:36:27.25,1:36:29.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, again, this is an\Nexample of the politics
Dialogue: 0,1:36:29.95,1:36:32.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the architecture, it's\Nno just about agreements
Dialogue: 0,1:36:32.32,1:36:35.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,between people but about\Ndesigning this trust
Dialogue: 0,1:36:35.26,1:36:37.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and identity into\Nthe infrastructure.
Dialogue: 0,1:36:37.46,1:36:39.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> I'm going to move on\Nto the next question just
Dialogue: 0,1:36:39.73,1:36:43.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because I want to get the\Naudience as much opportunity
Dialogue: 0,1:36:43.66,1:36:47.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as I can because the\Npanelists are going to be able
Dialogue: 0,1:36:47.23,1:36:50.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to circle back on this\Nlater on over here.
Dialogue: 0,1:36:50.90,1:36:53.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> So, I'm Luke Wadman [assumed\Nspelling], I'm a student working
Dialogue: 0,1:36:53.44,1:36:55.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as a policy analyst intern,
Dialogue: 0,1:36:55.48,1:36:58.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,analysis intern for\NIEEE this summer.
Dialogue: 0,1:36:58.38,1:37:00.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm working on internet\Ngovernance issues.
Dialogue: 0,1:37:00.51,1:37:04.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And does the panel\Nthink there is any--
Dialogue: 0,1:37:04.05,1:37:10.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would it be a good way to\Nframe the debate on privacy
Dialogue: 0,1:37:10.06,1:37:13.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and internet governance and\Net cetera in economic terms
Dialogue: 0,1:37:13.43,1:37:15.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because if I've learned\Nanything in my time in DC it's
Dialogue: 0,1:37:15.96,1:37:17.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that catching the ear
Dialogue: 0,1:37:17.56,1:37:20.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of our congressional\Nrepresentatives is easy
Dialogue: 0,1:37:20.20,1:37:22.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if you start talking about\Njobs and job creation
Dialogue: 0,1:37:22.97,1:37:27.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we've already talked a\Nlittle bit about the impact
Dialogue: 0,1:37:27.21,1:37:31.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of things like prism on US-based\NIT companies like Google
Dialogue: 0,1:37:31.88,1:37:34.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and Facebook, particularly\Nin the EU
Dialogue: 0,1:37:34.38,1:37:36.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but also around the world.
Dialogue: 0,1:37:36.58,1:37:39.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One case is that Google isn't\Nreally competitive in China
Dialogue: 0,1:37:39.82,1:37:42.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that's probably going to\Ncontinue in that direction.
Dialogue: 0,1:37:42.76,1:37:46.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, would that be a good way to\Nframe this whole conversation
Dialogue: 0,1:37:46.86,1:37:48.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and actually encourage some sort
Dialogue: 0,1:37:48.40,1:37:52.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of positive congressional\Naction?
Dialogue: 0,1:37:53.60,1:37:56.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> So, I would never say\Nthat I have any idea how
Dialogue: 0,1:37:56.70,1:37:59.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to encourage positive\Ncongressional action.
Dialogue: 0,1:37:59.34,1:38:02.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I just want to put\Nthat on the table.
Dialogue: 0,1:38:02.38,1:38:03.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think it is true
Dialogue: 0,1:38:03.94,1:38:07.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that everything that's\Nhappened this sort
Dialogue: 0,1:38:07.51,1:38:13.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of last six weeks inside this\Nsort of NSA bubble has happened
Dialogue: 0,1:38:13.75,1:38:17.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,without any reference\Nas to what it might--
Dialogue: 0,1:38:17.76,1:38:22.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the impact that it might\Nhave on US industry.
Dialogue: 0,1:38:22.56,1:38:25.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think it is possible\Nthat the impact at least
Dialogue: 0,1:38:25.53,1:38:27.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the short run maybe severe.
Dialogue: 0,1:38:27.30,1:38:30.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,On the other hand a\Nlot of people may carry
Dialogue: 0,1:38:30.37,1:38:33.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on about being unhappy\Nabout discovering
Dialogue: 0,1:38:33.87,1:38:37.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the NSA is sucking\Nup their data.
Dialogue: 0,1:38:37.81,1:38:42.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Historically, when\Nthe big comp--
Dialogue: 0,1:38:42.82,1:38:45.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if you look at the SOPA fight
Dialogue: 0,1:38:45.68,1:38:47.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which I think was\Nprobably the first time
Dialogue: 0,1:38:47.55,1:38:52.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that US internet industry sort\Nof held hands with activists
Dialogue: 0,1:38:52.16,1:38:56.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and technologist, it does\Nget congresses attention.
Dialogue: 0,1:38:56.33,1:39:00.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I will say though that\NNational Security is different.
Dialogue: 0,1:39:00.07,1:39:03.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is just always\Ndifferent and the arc
Dialogue: 0,1:39:03.70,1:39:08.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of National Security has been\Nmore, more, more since 9/11
Dialogue: 0,1:39:08.58,1:39:13.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the question is whether\Nthese revelations have sort
Dialogue: 0,1:39:13.81,1:39:17.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of pushed us beyond the\Nmore and more place.
Dialogue: 0,1:39:17.72,1:39:20.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> OK. Let's move over here.
Dialogue: 0,1:39:20.59,1:39:24.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Hi, I'm Susan Aaronson\Nwith GW, I'm a professor here
Dialogue: 0,1:39:24.46,1:39:26.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I work with the\NWorldwide Web Foundation
Dialogue: 0,1:39:26.56,1:39:28.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on measuring internet openness.
Dialogue: 0,1:39:28.43,1:39:32.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I want to ask you a\Nquestion that relates to trust,
Dialogue: 0,1:39:32.03,1:39:34.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the trust of policy makers.
Dialogue: 0,1:39:34.03,1:39:38.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, in the last couple of\Ndays we've seen [inaudible]
Dialogue: 0,1:39:38.27,1:39:41.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and Angle a Miracle [assumed\Nspelling] make these delightful
Dialogue: 0,1:39:41.04,1:39:46.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,comments about sever locations\Nand threats in terms of privacy.
Dialogue: 0,1:39:46.61,1:39:49.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And again, I wonder\Nif there are--
Dialogue: 0,1:39:49.48,1:39:52.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so, they're basically saying\Nif the server can't be located
Dialogue: 0,1:39:52.92,1:39:58.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where we can control, where our\Nprivacy rules dominate we might
Dialogue: 0,1:39:58.52,1:40:01.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not accept for example some
Dialogue: 0,1:40:01.19,1:40:02.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the things the\NUnited States wants
Dialogue: 0,1:40:02.40,1:40:04.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the trade agreement or--
Dialogue: 0,1:40:04.23,1:40:07.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we see similar things with\Nthe Trans-Pacific Partnership
Dialogue: 0,1:40:07.93,1:40:10.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I just wonder if you\Ncould talk a little bit
Dialogue: 0,1:40:10.24,1:40:11.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about this now.
Dialogue: 0,1:40:11.57,1:40:15.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, you can always, for\Nnational security reasons,
Dialogue: 0,1:40:15.21,1:40:19.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you can always say you have\Na particular policy in place
Dialogue: 0,1:40:19.34,1:40:21.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it's not protectionist.
Dialogue: 0,1:40:21.18,1:40:23.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But this is opposite\Nof that, right?
Dialogue: 0,1:40:23.35,1:40:25.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They're saying that\Nfor privacy reasons,
Dialogue: 0,1:40:25.52,1:40:31.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they want to essentially\Nprotect their citizens
Dialogue: 0,1:40:31.46,1:40:33.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from their information\Nbeing traded
Dialogue: 0,1:40:33.43,1:40:36.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by having the server\Nlocation in the United Stated.
Dialogue: 0,1:40:36.70,1:40:40.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If I may add one other\Nthing which is Frank La Rue,
Dialogue: 0,1:40:40.60,1:40:44.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who works for the-- who is\Nthe UN Special Representative
Dialogue: 0,1:40:44.64,1:40:48.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on Freedom of Expression,\Nhe has said basically
Dialogue: 0,1:40:48.17,1:40:51.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the US' failure to protect\Nthe privacy is a violation
Dialogue: 0,1:40:51.38,1:40:53.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of its human rights' obligation
Dialogue: 0,1:40:53.15,1:40:55.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because that is a\Nbasic human right
Dialogue: 0,1:40:55.15,1:40:57.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,under the Universal\NDeclaration, blah, blah, blah.
Dialogue: 0,1:40:57.75,1:41:03.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I want to hear your comments.
Dialogue: 0,1:41:03.99,1:41:05.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Sure. I'll do this.
Dialogue: 0,1:41:05.22,1:41:06.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Pull it out there.
Dialogue: 0,1:41:06.96,1:41:09.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'll-- the Trans-Pacific\NPartnership
Dialogue: 0,1:41:09.40,1:41:18.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the US Free Trade Agreement\Nis and always will have had
Dialogue: 0,1:41:20.54,1:41:24.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to address the data\Nprivacy laws.
Dialogue: 0,1:41:24.91,1:41:27.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The Safe Harbor that\Nwe had in place
Dialogue: 0,1:41:27.11,1:41:31.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in 2001 will actually\Nexpire with the agreement.
Dialogue: 0,1:41:31.92,1:41:35.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the United States, as you\Nknow, has no national umbrella
Dialogue: 0,1:41:35.49,1:41:37.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for data breach and\Ndata privacy.
Dialogue: 0,1:41:37.36,1:41:41.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have 47 individual states\Nwith their individual programs
Dialogue: 0,1:41:41.49,1:41:43.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and no national umbrella.
Dialogue: 0,1:41:43.26,1:41:46.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so, if we're recalling\Nfor congressional action
Dialogue: 0,1:41:46.10,1:41:50.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that had an economic, you\Nknow, significant impact,
Dialogue: 0,1:41:50.34,1:41:54.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there are 52 pieces of\Nlegislation currently
Dialogue: 0,1:41:54.37,1:41:57.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in 113th Congress\Naround cyber security,
Dialogue: 0,1:41:57.78,1:41:59.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about 10 of which\Naround data breach.
Dialogue: 0,1:41:59.65,1:42:01.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It would be wonderful\Nif we could get
Dialogue: 0,1:42:01.18,1:42:03.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to some bipartisan\Nagreement on that
Dialogue: 0,1:42:03.72,1:42:07.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so we could enable the\Noverall Free Trade Agreement
Dialogue: 0,1:42:07.79,1:42:11.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to move forward between\Nthe two continents.
Dialogue: 0,1:42:11.26,1:42:16.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,More specifically though, noting\Nthe 47 different state laws
Dialogue: 0,1:42:16.16,1:42:19.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and noting the difference\Nbetween the Europe
Dialogue: 0,1:42:19.80,1:42:23.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the United States,\Ncloud computing
Dialogue: 0,1:42:23.84,1:42:27.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and where the data is\Nstored follows the geography
Dialogue: 0,1:42:27.57,1:42:29.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and will always follow\Nthe geography.
Dialogue: 0,1:42:29.98,1:42:32.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So if there's a data breach\Nhere in the state of Virginia,
Dialogue: 0,1:42:32.54,1:42:34.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it follows a different\Nset of rules
Dialogue: 0,1:42:34.48,1:42:37.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,than Massachusetts\Nand in California.
Dialogue: 0,1:42:37.55,1:42:40.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And a company, whoever the\Ncompany might be, actually has
Dialogue: 0,1:42:40.85,1:42:44.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to know all sets of laws\Nfor that particular state
Dialogue: 0,1:42:44.32,1:42:48.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in this case in order to follow\Nthe regulatory compliance,
Dialogue: 0,1:42:48.36,1:42:49.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,et cetera.
Dialogue: 0,1:42:49.43,1:42:51.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That also is the same\Nfor if it's stored
Dialogue: 0,1:42:51.80,1:42:53.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the United Kingdom,
Dialogue: 0,1:42:53.13,1:42:55.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it follows the United Kingdom's\Nlaws, and the Netherlands,
Dialogue: 0,1:42:55.54,1:42:58.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and Brazil, and you\Npick the place.
Dialogue: 0,1:42:58.00,1:43:04.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so when the EU and\Nthe leaders of Germany
Dialogue: 0,1:43:04.71,1:43:07.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and elsewhere are talking\Nabout the data protection
Dialogue: 0,1:43:07.48,1:43:12.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and data privacy, and they are\Nlooking at the United States
Dialogue: 0,1:43:12.25,1:43:15.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and worried about how our data--
Dialogue: 0,1:43:15.22,1:43:18.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we're protecting\Ndata and the privacy,
Dialogue: 0,1:43:18.26,1:43:21.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then it would be also important\Nunderstand how the European
Dialogue: 0,1:43:21.76,1:43:26.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,companies are mirroring data\Nin other countries like Brazil
Dialogue: 0,1:43:26.93,1:43:30.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or South Africa or\NEgypt or China or India,
Dialogue: 0,1:43:30.94,1:43:34.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,et cetera because the data\Nalways follows the law
Dialogue: 0,1:43:34.04,1:43:39.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the geography\Nthat it sits in.
Dialogue: 0,1:43:39.11,1:43:42.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> I'll just add to that\Nthat one of the things to--
Dialogue: 0,1:43:42.18,1:43:46.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, obviously, the\NNSA revelations have sort
Dialogue: 0,1:43:46.89,1:43:50.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of strengthened the EU's\Nhand in a discussion
Dialogue: 0,1:43:50.16,1:43:52.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that was going long before.
Dialogue: 0,1:43:52.46,1:43:56.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have a particular view\Nof what privacy means.
Dialogue: 0,1:43:56.96,1:44:02.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It doesn't match up, going back\Nto this question earlier about,
Dialogue: 0,1:44:02.10,1:44:06.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you know, what economic kind of\Nmotivation might move Congress.
Dialogue: 0,1:44:06.97,1:44:10.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One would think the US\Ncompanies would move forward
Dialogue: 0,1:44:10.38,1:44:12.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on a comprehensive\Ndata protection regime
Dialogue: 0,1:44:12.94,1:44:16.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the United States that\Nmight be more flexible
Dialogue: 0,1:44:16.22,1:44:20.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and perhaps reflect the internet\Nmore than the European one,
Dialogue: 0,1:44:20.55,1:44:23.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I haven't seen them\Nstep forward on that.
Dialogue: 0,1:44:23.32,1:44:26.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think it would be interesting\Nfor somebody to ask the question
Dialogue: 0,1:44:26.73,1:44:30.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about the various EU countries\Nin their surveillance regimes
Dialogue: 0,1:44:30.86,1:44:33.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because as much as I say\Nsome very unpleasant things
Dialogue: 0,1:44:33.73,1:44:37.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about ours, I think you\Nwould find that it--
Dialogue: 0,1:44:37.14,1:44:39.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the exception\Nof our capacity
Dialogue: 0,1:44:39.40,1:44:43.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for the just incredible\Nscale of collection,
Dialogue: 0,1:44:43.81,1:44:47.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the actual legal\Nprotections are no better
Dialogue: 0,1:44:47.91,1:44:50.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at best and probably\Na lot worse.
Dialogue: 0,1:44:50.58,1:44:56.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Just one comment on\Nthe trade discussions.
Dialogue: 0,1:44:56.09,1:44:58.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Suzanne, I think\Nit's a very good,
Dialogue: 0,1:44:58.09,1:45:00.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's a very important question.
Dialogue: 0,1:45:00.59,1:45:04.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I certainly think that,\Nyou know, as you well know,
Dialogue: 0,1:45:04.56,1:45:07.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,better than probably anyone\Nin this room, you know,
Dialogue: 0,1:45:07.87,1:45:10.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,trade agreements have always\Nmade exceptions for things
Dialogue: 0,1:45:10.97,1:45:14.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like national security,\Npublic morals,
Dialogue: 0,1:45:14.41,1:45:16.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sometimes consumer\Nprotections, things like that.
Dialogue: 0,1:45:16.68,1:45:21.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think what we see now is\Nthat simply pushing them off,
Dialogue: 0,1:45:21.08,1:45:24.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,those issues off into the\Nexception category is not going
Dialogue: 0,1:45:24.08,1:45:28.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to work so we need\Nsome kind of mechanism
Dialogue: 0,1:45:28.12,1:45:30.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that on the one hand\Nrespects the fact
Dialogue: 0,1:45:30.32,1:45:32.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that governments do\Nhave a legitimate
Dialogue: 0,1:45:32.42,1:45:35.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and important interest in\Nprotecting their citizens
Dialogue: 0,1:45:35.13,1:45:39.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,against unsafe products,\Nagainst human rights violations
Dialogue: 0,1:45:39.63,1:45:42.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if that's the way they do\Nprivacy, against, you know,
Dialogue: 0,1:45:42.24,1:45:44.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,security breaches,\Nwhat have you.
Dialogue: 0,1:45:44.60,1:45:51.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But tying that to the\Nlocation of data is, I think,
Dialogue: 0,1:45:51.48,1:45:56.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just an overly simplistic way\Nof accomplishing that purpose,
Dialogue: 0,1:45:56.72,1:46:00.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I think, you know,\Nyou can make fancy--
Dialogue: 0,1:46:00.35,1:46:04.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,well, you can make fancy trade\Narguments about why that's not,
Dialogue: 0,1:46:04.32,1:46:07.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you know, most favored\Nnation treatment.
Dialogue: 0,1:46:07.73,1:46:13.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I think the bottom line is,\Nwe used to have trade agreements
Dialogue: 0,1:46:13.06,1:46:15.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that were fundamentally about\Ntariffs and we've mostly dealt
Dialogue: 0,1:46:15.80,1:46:18.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with those issues, and now we\Nare going to trade agreements
Dialogue: 0,1:46:18.20,1:46:21.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that are fundamentally about\Nthe non-tariff barriers
Dialogue: 0,1:46:21.51,1:46:23.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that exist between economies.
Dialogue: 0,1:46:23.78,1:46:27.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we're going to have\Nto deal with that either.
Dialogue: 0,1:46:27.05,1:46:30.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think that in the, you\Nknow-- for some period of time,
Dialogue: 0,1:46:30.88,1:46:35.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think the surveillance issues\Nwill cloud those discussions
Dialogue: 0,1:46:35.39,1:46:37.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but we'll come back\Nto them at some point
Dialogue: 0,1:46:37.99,1:46:40.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they will be\Nthe same issues.
Dialogue: 0,1:46:40.83,1:46:43.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So-- and I-- the only thing I--
Dialogue: 0,1:46:43.76,1:46:49.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the only final thing I\Nwould say, I think that one
Dialogue: 0,1:46:49.80,1:46:51.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the big challenges\Nwe're going to have
Dialogue: 0,1:46:51.20,1:46:54.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the trade context on\Ninternet issues is the challenge
Dialogue: 0,1:46:54.91,1:47:00.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we found with ACTA,\Nthat the ACTA was making--
Dialogue: 0,1:47:00.15,1:47:02.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Inaudible Remark] Sorry, oh,\Nsorry, oh God, Steve is going
Dialogue: 0,1:47:02.45,1:47:04.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to throw that look at me.
Dialogue: 0,1:47:04.15,1:47:10.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So there was a trade agreement\Ninvolving intellectual property
Dialogue: 0,1:47:10.52,1:47:17.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,enforcement whose\Nacronym is ACTA
Dialogue: 0,1:47:17.16,1:47:22.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and was very strenuously opposed\Nby civil society groups all
Dialogue: 0,1:47:22.27,1:47:24.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,over the world because they\Ndidn't know what it was,
Dialogue: 0,1:47:24.47,1:47:26.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they didn't know what was in\Nthe agreement and they argued,
Dialogue: 0,1:47:26.54,1:47:28.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think-- I thought,\Nquite legitimately
Dialogue: 0,1:47:28.61,1:47:31.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that if there are\Ngoing to be rules made
Dialogue: 0,1:47:31.01,1:47:34.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about intellectual property\Nrights that affect individuals,
Dialogue: 0,1:47:34.11,1:47:36.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there should be some\Npublic discussion
Dialogue: 0,1:47:36.18,1:47:37.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of what those rules are.
Dialogue: 0,1:47:37.78,1:47:42.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Trade people believe they\Nsomehow can't negotiate
Dialogue: 0,1:47:42.12,1:47:43.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in public.
Dialogue: 0,1:47:43.49,1:47:46.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's a sort of an article\Nof faith in the trade world.
Dialogue: 0,1:47:46.12,1:47:50.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They're going to have to learn\Nto be a little bit more public
Dialogue: 0,1:47:50.33,1:47:53.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if they're going to get anything\Ndone on these issues is my deal.
Dialogue: 0,1:47:53.47,1:47:55.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Lynn, you got the last\Nword before the break.
Dialogue: 0,1:47:55.40,1:47:56.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Just quickly.
Dialogue: 0,1:47:56.80,1:47:58.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Not only-- it wasn't that they\Nwouldn't negotiate in public,
Dialogue: 0,1:47:58.10,1:47:59.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they would not authorize\Na release
Dialogue: 0,1:47:59.64,1:48:02.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the documents\Npost-negotiation.
Dialogue: 0,1:48:02.14,1:48:04.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They were not available\Npublicly.
Dialogue: 0,1:48:04.24,1:48:06.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> So this sounds\Nlike a thread going--
Dialogue: 0,1:48:06.85,1:48:11.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,circling back to NSA and FISA\Nand all that, but I am sorry
Dialogue: 0,1:48:11.92,1:48:15.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we have hit the point\Nwhere we promised we were going
Dialogue: 0,1:48:15.49,1:48:18.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to take a very brief five-minute\Nbreak that you're going
Dialogue: 0,1:48:18.29,1:48:20.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to have a chance to stretch\Nyour legs, then we're going
Dialogue: 0,1:48:20.69,1:48:26.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to come back and people on the\Npanel will mix it up some more,
Dialogue: 0,1:48:26.70,1:48:30.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even better I suspect,\Nmoderated by Steve Roberts.
Dialogue: 0,1:48:30.74,1:48:33.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But let's take a quick\Nfive-minute break.
Dialogue: 0,1:48:33.24,1:48:36.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There will be one other\Nopportunity for you all to meet
Dialogue: 0,1:48:36.48,1:48:38.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and greet at least\Nmost of the panelists
Dialogue: 0,1:48:38.74,1:48:42.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and there's a reception that\Nstarts at 5:15 afterwards.
Dialogue: 0,1:48:42.88,1:48:45.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But for now, five-minute break,\Nwe'll convene at 4 o'clock.
Dialogue: 0,1:48:45.55,1:48:47.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you very much.
Dialogue: 0,1:48:47.49,1:48:53.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ Inaudible Discussions ]
Dialogue: 0,1:48:53.96,1:48:55.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, thanks for\Nsticking around.
Dialogue: 0,1:48:55.29,1:48:56.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I know it's been\Na long afternoon.
Dialogue: 0,1:48:56.83,1:48:59.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As Lance said, I'm\NSteve Roberts.
Dialogue: 0,1:48:59.93,1:49:02.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm a professor here at\NGW in the School of Media
Dialogue: 0,1:49:02.34,1:49:04.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and Public Affairs,\Nright across the street.
Dialogue: 0,1:49:04.57,1:49:08.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And my job is to try to\Ncrystallize some of the issues
Dialogue: 0,1:49:08.84,1:49:11.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we've been discussing
Dialogue: 0,1:49:11.64,1:49:14.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and [inaudible] some\Nconversation among
Dialogue: 0,1:49:14.45,1:49:15.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the panelists.
Dialogue: 0,1:49:15.82,1:49:19.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I want to start by quoting\Na couple of things I heard.
Dialogue: 0,1:49:19.92,1:49:22.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Lynn, for instance, said that
Dialogue: 0,1:49:22.46,1:49:25.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"unwanted surveillance\Nis not acceptable."
Dialogue: 0,1:49:25.16,1:49:29.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Leslie talked a lot\Nabout human rights.
Dialogue: 0,1:49:29.53,1:49:32.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But there was a phrase
Dialogue: 0,1:49:32.40,1:49:36.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that I did not hear the entire\Nfirst hour and a half except
Dialogue: 0,1:49:36.07,1:49:39.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in passing, and that word\Nwas "national security."
Dialogue: 0,1:49:39.84,1:49:44.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so I want to pose this\Nquestion to the panel.
Dialogue: 0,1:49:44.88,1:49:48.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Isn't national security\Na human right?
Dialogue: 0,1:49:48.01,1:49:50.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Isn't safety a human right?
Dialogue: 0,1:49:50.38,1:49:57.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Isn't the unwanted surveillance,
Dialogue: 0,1:49:57.12,1:50:01.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,one person's unwanted\Nsurveillance is another person's
Dialogue: 0,1:50:01.36,1:50:06.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,protection from danger\Nand from terrorism?
Dialogue: 0,1:50:06.43,1:50:10.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, I want to ask everybody,\Nwhat's the tradeoff here?
Dialogue: 0,1:50:10.70,1:50:16.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The whole idea in the first half\Nof this panel was the importance
Dialogue: 0,1:50:16.78,1:50:20.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the freedoms in the internet.
Dialogue: 0,1:50:20.15,1:50:21.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But what are the limits,
Dialogue: 0,1:50:21.48,1:50:23.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and what are the\Nlegitimate tradeoffs,
Dialogue: 0,1:50:23.92,1:50:27.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and how do we balance\Nlegitimate human rights
Dialogue: 0,1:50:27.45,1:50:29.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,against legitimate\Nrights to be safe
Dialogue: 0,1:50:29.92,1:50:31.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from terrorism and\Nother threats?
Dialogue: 0,1:50:31.82,1:50:34.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Who wants to start?
Dialogue: 0,1:50:34.36,1:50:36.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Go ahead, John.
Dialogue: 0,1:50:36.90,1:50:42.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> So I'm going to almost answer\Nthe question, but not quite.
Dialogue: 0,1:50:42.44,1:50:50.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is true that the\Ngovernments have certain roles
Dialogue: 0,1:50:50.54,1:50:51.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and responsibilities.
Dialogue: 0,1:50:51.91,1:50:56.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And one of those roles is\Nthere's a certain protection,
Dialogue: 0,1:50:56.92,1:50:59.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a certain defensive role
Dialogue: 0,1:50:59.25,1:51:02.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that a government feels\Nit has to provide.
Dialogue: 0,1:51:02.02,1:51:06.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the question is how do\Ngovernments do what they see
Dialogue: 0,1:51:06.56,1:51:09.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as their obligations,
Dialogue: 0,1:51:09.13,1:51:12.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,their actual responsibilities\Ngiven the internet.
Dialogue: 0,1:51:12.83,1:51:16.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The internet has not been\Nvery good at this, OK?
Dialogue: 0,1:51:16.27,1:51:16.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, --
Dialogue: 0,1:51:16.97,1:51:18.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Would you excuse me.
Dialogue: 0,1:51:18.20,1:51:21.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's not just an obligation,\Nit's not just something
Dialogue: 0,1:51:21.01,1:51:24.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that they passing, this\Nis the first obligation
Dialogue: 0,1:51:24.88,1:51:26.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of government, is to protect--
Dialogue: 0,1:51:26.58,1:51:27.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Right.
Dialogue: 0,1:51:27.15,1:51:27.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> -- people.
Dialogue: 0,1:51:27.98,1:51:29.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Isn't it the first obligation?
Dialogue: 0,1:51:29.35,1:51:31.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Ideal. One of the things that\N[inaudible] does, of course,
Dialogue: 0,1:51:31.38,1:51:33.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is we're responsible for\Nmaintaining a registry
Dialogue: 0,1:51:33.69,1:51:36.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of IP addresses and that\Nregistry is often used
Dialogue: 0,1:51:36.12,1:51:39.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because someone does\Nsomething in cyberspace
Dialogue: 0,1:51:39.52,1:51:41.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the first thing\Nlaw enforcement would
Dialogue: 0,1:51:41.26,1:51:44.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like to know is, where is\Nthat in the real world?
Dialogue: 0,1:51:44.26,1:51:46.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because real world has the\Npeople in organizations
Dialogue: 0,1:51:46.80,1:51:48.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the cyberspace has to do
Dialogue: 0,1:51:48.53,1:51:50.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with domain names\Nand IP addresses.
Dialogue: 0,1:51:50.30,1:51:53.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so, governments\Nfeel they have
Dialogue: 0,1:51:53.30,1:51:54.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to enforce laws for example.
Dialogue: 0,1:51:54.91,1:51:57.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And yet the internet wasn't\Nbuilt with an interface
Dialogue: 0,1:51:57.81,1:52:01.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for government is saying, "If\Nyou're trying to do your duty,
Dialogue: 0,1:52:01.38,1:52:04.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,here's how you go about\Nfinding that person.
Dialogue: 0,1:52:04.38,1:52:07.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Here's how you go about doing\Nwhat you see as an obligation."
Dialogue: 0,1:52:07.72,1:52:10.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, I know a lot of\Npeople look at this
Dialogue: 0,1:52:10.72,1:52:15.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they go this entire area of\Ngovernments and what they want
Dialogue: 0,1:52:15.06,1:52:17.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to do with the internet and\Nthey want to take control
Dialogue: 0,1:52:17.76,1:52:20.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they want to\Ndo surveillance.
Dialogue: 0,1:52:20.30,1:52:22.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you turn it around\Nand look at it,
Dialogue: 0,1:52:22.80,1:52:25.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,remember that from the\Ngovernment's perspective,
Dialogue: 0,1:52:25.00,1:52:28.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in many cases, these governments\Nfeel they have an obligation
Dialogue: 0,1:52:28.41,1:52:31.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the internet is\Nactively preventing them
Dialogue: 0,1:52:31.71,1:52:33.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from doing something\Nthey're required
Dialogue: 0,1:52:33.58,1:52:35.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by their citizens to do.
Dialogue: 0,1:52:35.05,1:52:38.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, we need to not omit the fact
Dialogue: 0,1:52:38.35,1:52:42.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the internet doesn't\Nprovide a friendly interface
Dialogue: 0,1:52:42.52,1:52:43.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to government.
Dialogue: 0,1:52:43.86,1:52:47.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, me people would see that\Nas a feature but it's a fact
Dialogue: 0,1:52:47.23,1:52:49.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that shouldn't be\Noverlooked in the discussion.
Dialogue: 0,1:52:49.33,1:52:50.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Tradeoff.
Dialogue: 0,1:52:50.06,1:52:51.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What's the tradeoff?
Dialogue: 0,1:52:51.23,1:52:52.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Leslie?
Dialogue: 0,1:52:52.20,1:52:54.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> So, I want to back this up.
Dialogue: 0,1:52:54.50,1:52:56.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is not a new question\Nand it doesn't have
Dialogue: 0,1:52:56.87,1:52:58.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to do with the internet.
Dialogue: 0,1:52:58.14,1:52:59.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, we have a--
Dialogue: 0,1:52:59.67,1:53:04.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,an international\Nhuman rights framework
Dialogue: 0,1:53:04.21,1:53:08.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that explicitly makes national\Nsecurity an exception for--
Dialogue: 0,1:53:08.51,1:53:13.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,exception for-- in\Nhuman rights treaties.
Dialogue: 0,1:53:13.22,1:53:16.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is an obligation of\Nthe countries themselves
Dialogue: 0,1:53:16.59,1:53:18.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to protect our national\Nsecurity.
Dialogue: 0,1:53:18.52,1:53:21.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But we also have an entire\Ndeveloped jurisprudence
Dialogue: 0,1:53:21.49,1:53:25.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about publicly enacted\Ntransparent law,
Dialogue: 0,1:53:25.63,1:53:30.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,proportionate law, fair\Nprocess, remedy and oversight.
Dialogue: 0,1:53:30.44,1:53:33.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, you know, I think\Nwe just throw this
Dialogue: 0,1:53:33.91,1:53:37.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,into the internet context, we're\Njust missing, there's a bit--
Dialogue: 0,1:53:37.01,1:53:41.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you know, there's a basic--\Nthere's bodies of law and norms.
Dialogue: 0,1:53:41.41,1:53:45.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the question here is not\Nwhether there's a tradeoff,
Dialogue: 0,1:53:45.02,1:53:46.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's whether you\Nreach a balance.
Dialogue: 0,1:53:46.68,1:53:52.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think when you have\Nmost of this process secret,
Dialogue: 0,1:53:52.19,1:53:55.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the judicial process\Nsecret, the oversight secret,
Dialogue: 0,1:53:55.79,1:53:58.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the interpretation\Nof the law secret,
Dialogue: 0,1:53:58.63,1:54:01.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then you cannot achieve\Nthat balance.
Dialogue: 0,1:54:01.20,1:54:03.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The question at the\Nend of day is balance.
Dialogue: 0,1:54:03.27,1:54:05.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I certainly would take\Nissue with the idea
Dialogue: 0,1:54:05.47,1:54:09.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the internet has been\Nunfriendly to law enforcement
Dialogue: 0,1:54:09.38,1:54:11.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it's always this, you\Nknow, we're going dark
Dialogue: 0,1:54:11.61,1:54:13.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we can't see anything.
Dialogue: 0,1:54:13.01,1:54:16.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think if we learned anything\Nover the last couple of months,
Dialogue: 0,1:54:16.72,1:54:20.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's that law enforcement\Nreally has access
Dialogue: 0,1:54:20.42,1:54:22.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to much more information
Dialogue: 0,1:54:22.02,1:54:24.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that there is\Ntherefore a temptation
Dialogue: 0,1:54:24.79,1:54:27.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to use what technology\Nhas created
Dialogue: 0,1:54:27.73,1:54:32.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to go beyond what a balanced\Nhuman rights frame would allow.
Dialogue: 0,1:54:32.63,1:54:34.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think that's\Nwhat our problem is,
Dialogue: 0,1:54:34.20,1:54:35.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not that they're not\Nsupposed to be [inaudible].
Dialogue: 0,1:54:35.53,1:54:38.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is a first order of\Nbusiness for government.
Dialogue: 0,1:54:38.14,1:54:40.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They are supposed to\Nprotect their citizens.
Dialogue: 0,1:54:40.91,1:54:44.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But Steve, if you look at this\Nframework that's been created,
Dialogue: 0,1:54:44.98,1:54:49.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it was framework that was\Ncreated on a battlefield in Iraq
Dialogue: 0,1:54:49.25,1:54:55.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to make sure that you had every\Nless possible bid of information
Dialogue: 0,1:54:55.22,1:54:58.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to make sure you would\Nknow about the IED.
Dialogue: 0,1:54:58.56,1:55:03.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And this whole haystack\Nand needle analogy assumes
Dialogue: 0,1:55:03.36,1:55:06.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that collecting a\Nhaystack is proportionate,
Dialogue: 0,1:55:06.53,1:55:08.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I don't think it is.
Dialogue: 0,1:55:08.17,1:55:11.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> But the President\Nhas said this program
Dialogue: 0,1:55:11.30,1:55:13.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of surveillance is\Nessential, the Director
Dialogue: 0,1:55:13.30,1:55:16.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of national security said that\Nit's essential, the Chairman
Dialogue: 0,1:55:16.71,1:55:18.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the Senate Intelligence\NCommittee,
Dialogue: 0,1:55:18.78,1:55:20.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a liberal former mayor
Dialogue: 0,1:55:20.85,1:55:23.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of San Francisco had\Nsaid it's essential,
Dialogue: 0,1:55:23.65,1:55:25.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what's your quarrel with this?
Dialogue: 0,1:55:25.95,1:55:29.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And how do you rebut their\Nargument of everybody
Dialogue: 0,1:55:29.12,1:55:33.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who has had access to the\Nsecret, say this is justifiable.
Dialogue: 0,1:55:33.36,1:55:38.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'd like other people\Nto deal with this.
Dialogue: 0,1:55:38.50,1:55:39.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Please.
Dialogue: 0,1:55:39.30,1:55:40.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Yeah. [Multiple Speakers]
Dialogue: 0,1:55:40.06,1:55:45.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> OK. So, it's-- there's
Dialogue: 0,1:55:45.20,1:55:48.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so many portrayals\Nof this as a binary.
Dialogue: 0,1:55:48.41,1:55:50.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, you know, I think\Nthe issue is more one
Dialogue: 0,1:55:50.98,1:55:53.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of degrees [phonetic] and\Na more granular issue.
Dialogue: 0,1:55:53.44,1:55:55.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But there are some\Nbinaries here, right?
Dialogue: 0,1:55:55.18,1:55:57.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We either have a\Nconstitution or we don't.
Dialogue: 0,1:55:57.62,1:55:59.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We either have a fourth\Namendment or we don't.
Dialogue: 0,1:55:59.92,1:56:02.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But if you start looking\Nat the actual practices
Dialogue: 0,1:56:02.12,1:56:05.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I don't think we have a full\Npicture of exactly what's going
Dialogue: 0,1:56:05.06,1:56:08.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on but based on some of the\Nthings that we've heard,
Dialogue: 0,1:56:08.19,1:56:12.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there are ways to enact the\Nnecessary national security
Dialogue: 0,1:56:12.20,1:56:16.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,without crossing the lines\Nthat would be unacceptable
Dialogue: 0,1:56:16.57,1:56:17.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the majority of the people.
Dialogue: 0,1:56:17.94,1:56:21.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, having low level-- so\Nlayers of control and layers
Dialogue: 0,1:56:21.51,1:56:24.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of accountability in the\Nprocesses of surveillance,
Dialogue: 0,1:56:24.61,1:56:27.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,right, so not just having any\Nlow level analyst being able
Dialogue: 0,1:56:27.31,1:56:30.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to take a fire hose of\Ninformation and download
Dialogue: 0,1:56:30.35,1:56:33.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that unto their computer just\Nto exaggerate the point, right?
Dialogue: 0,1:56:33.48,1:56:35.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, there's the granularity,
Dialogue: 0,1:56:35.49,1:56:37.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there's getting the\Ninformation that's necessary,
Dialogue: 0,1:56:37.42,1:56:38.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there's the process\Nof accountability,
Dialogue: 0,1:56:38.89,1:56:40.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there's the issue\Nof judicial review.
Dialogue: 0,1:56:40.46,1:56:42.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, I think that there are ways
Dialogue: 0,1:56:42.29,1:56:45.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to enact the necessary\Nnational security now
Dialogue: 0,1:56:45.33,1:56:47.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that our public's\Nfear is online and now
Dialogue: 0,1:56:47.87,1:56:50.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we have the privatization\Nof that public's fear
Dialogue: 0,1:56:50.90,1:56:53.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,without going to the extremes
Dialogue: 0,1:56:53.24,1:56:56.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of basically having\Nthe fire hose analogy
Dialogue: 0,1:56:56.08,1:56:59.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and just downloading\Nwhatever data about anybody.
Dialogue: 0,1:56:59.58,1:57:01.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Anybody else on the panel\Nwho want to pick on this?
Dialogue: 0,1:57:01.91,1:57:03.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Please, go ahead.
Dialogue: 0,1:57:03.82,1:57:07.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> So, you want us to talk about\Ntradeoffs but I actually want
Dialogue: 0,1:57:07.49,1:57:11.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to suggest that I think a more\Naccountable clear system is
Dialogue: 0,1:57:11.69,1:57:13.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,better for national security.
Dialogue: 0,1:57:13.06,1:57:16.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think what's happening\Nnow where you have very,
Dialogue: 0,1:57:16.23,1:57:20.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,very broad authorities that\Nare unclear is almost the worst
Dialogue: 0,1:57:20.77,1:57:23.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of all possible worlds\Nfor both civil liberties
Dialogue: 0,1:57:23.87,1:57:27.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and national security\Nbecause you have--
Dialogue: 0,1:57:27.44,1:57:31.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you have policy officials,\Nother governments, activists,
Dialogue: 0,1:57:31.78,1:57:34.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,et cetera, poking\Naround in the business
Dialogue: 0,1:57:34.05,1:57:36.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the intelligence community,\Nand that's not a very good thing
Dialogue: 0,1:57:36.85,1:57:40.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for them frankly, they want\Nto able to do what they do
Dialogue: 0,1:57:40.05,1:57:45.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of quietly and-- but in\Norder for us to do that,
Dialogue: 0,1:57:45.79,1:57:49.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in order for that to happen,\Nthere has to be a clear sense
Dialogue: 0,1:57:49.96,1:57:51.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of what the rules are.
Dialogue: 0,1:57:51.16,1:57:53.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One sense I which-- I\Nlargely agree with Leslie
Dialogue: 0,1:57:53.23,1:57:55.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but the one sense in which\NI think this is an internet
Dialogue: 0,1:57:55.40,1:57:58.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,problem is it's really\Nkind of a 9/11 problem,
Dialogue: 0,1:57:58.70,1:58:00.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then I think a lot of\Nwhat's going on is going
Dialogue: 0,1:58:00.47,1:58:06.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on under the kind of exceptional\Nbasis that we've handled a lot
Dialogue: 0,1:58:06.04,1:58:08.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of national security\Nissues post 9/11.
Dialogue: 0,1:58:08.98,1:58:13.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And to quote the President\Nagain, ironically enough,
Dialogue: 0,1:58:13.15,1:58:16.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just a few weeks before this\Nwhole surveillance story broke,
Dialogue: 0,1:58:16.92,1:58:19.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the President went to the\NNational Defense Universities,
Dialogue: 0,1:58:19.29,1:58:24.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you know, and gave a\Nspeech saying, number one,
Dialogue: 0,1:58:24.26,1:58:28.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it is bad for a country\Nto be perpetually at war,
Dialogue: 0,1:58:28.10,1:58:29.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and number two, that\Nthe threat level
Dialogue: 0,1:58:29.80,1:58:35.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from Al Qaeda was basically\Nbelow the level that it was
Dialogue: 0,1:58:35.44,1:58:38.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at 9/11, and that we should--
Dialogue: 0,1:58:38.28,1:58:41.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that we should start\Ntreating that threat,
Dialogue: 0,1:58:41.31,1:58:45.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that national security threat\Nas part of the norm not
Dialogue: 0,1:58:45.25,1:58:47.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as an exception that\Nwe have to respond
Dialogue: 0,1:58:47.15,1:58:50.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to with these kinds\Nof exceptions.
Dialogue: 0,1:58:50.46,1:58:52.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This whole surveillance\Nprogram was created
Dialogue: 0,1:58:52.96,1:58:54.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as the President's\Nsurveillance programs, you know,
Dialogue: 0,1:58:54.96,1:58:57.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as an exception, and\Nthat's its problem.
Dialogue: 0,1:58:57.16,1:58:58.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If the problem is not--
Dialogue: 0,1:58:58.30,1:58:59.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Although continued by\Na democratic president--
Dialogue: 0,1:58:59.100,1:59:04.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Yes, that will-- that's\Nright but I think that it needs
Dialogue: 0,1:59:04.87,1:59:10.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to be continued on a more\Nclear accountable basis.
Dialogue: 0,1:59:10.18,1:59:14.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so I don't tend to accept\Nthat the issue gets solved
Dialogue: 0,1:59:14.91,1:59:17.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by saying more surveillance,\Nless surveillance.
Dialogue: 0,1:59:17.28,1:59:19.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think that the issue\Nis surveillance according
Dialogue: 0,1:59:19.85,1:59:21.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to what rules and with\Nwhat accountability.
Dialogue: 0,1:59:21.89,1:59:25.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Lynn I quoted [phonetic]\Nyou-- please, your turn.
Dialogue: 0,1:59:25.06,1:59:26.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Yeah. I mean, I'll come\Nto my point [inaudible]
Dialogue: 0,1:59:26.32,1:59:29.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but just [inaudible] said\Nunwarranted surveillance.
Dialogue: 0,1:59:29.56,1:59:32.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I recognize the difficulty\Nin unwanted thief
Dialogue: 0,1:59:32.36,1:59:34.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the perspective\Nof the individual.
Dialogue: 0,1:59:34.77,1:59:37.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, it's very much\Nan unwarranted.
Dialogue: 0,1:59:37.44,1:59:38.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Thank you.
Dialogue: 0,1:59:38.40,1:59:39.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> But-- And I just\Nreally wanted
Dialogue: 0,1:59:39.17,1:59:40.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to echo the three comments
Dialogue: 0,1:59:40.37,1:59:42.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that have been made here\Nvery, very, very strongly.
Dialogue: 0,1:59:42.84,1:59:45.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When-- In a system\Nlike the internet
Dialogue: 0,1:59:45.01,1:59:47.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is breaking all barriers\Nwhere we're so interconnected
Dialogue: 0,1:59:47.91,1:59:51.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and so interdependent, we\Nhave to change our paradigm
Dialogue: 0,1:59:51.12,1:59:53.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of looking at this and move\Nit to one of managing risk.
Dialogue: 0,1:59:53.88,1:59:57.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We can talk about in the context\Nof tradeoffs if you like.
Dialogue: 0,1:59:57.32,1:59:59.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But we really do\Nhave to look at--
Dialogue: 0,1:59:59.72,2:00:02.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Wasn't that the only context?
Dialogue: 0,2:00:02.33,2:00:06.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Or isn't tradeoff is the only\Nlegitimate way to talk about it?
Dialogue: 0,2:00:06.26,2:00:09.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because we-- isn't that\Nwhat we do everyday?
Dialogue: 0,2:00:09.03,2:00:11.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> I think tradeoff\Nis legitimate way
Dialogue: 0,2:00:11.14,2:00:13.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I'm not sure we're\Nmaking the right tradeoffs
Dialogue: 0,2:00:13.14,2:00:15.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I think we continue to\Nfocus on national security
Dialogue: 0,2:00:15.87,2:00:20.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and quite often run\Nby flagrant abuses
Dialogue: 0,2:00:20.14,2:00:23.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,than we're conflating the issue\Nor we're not pulling it apart.
Dialogue: 0,2:00:23.58,2:00:26.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's not about national security\Nand what is the best way
Dialogue: 0,2:00:26.25,2:00:28.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to protect national security.
Dialogue: 0,2:00:28.82,2:00:30.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,From my perspective, you know,
Dialogue: 0,2:00:30.22,2:00:32.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what our members\Nare actually upset
Dialogue: 0,2:00:32.06,2:00:35.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about is the flagrant\Nabuses and the lack
Dialogue: 0,2:00:35.49,2:00:37.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of transparency and the secrecy.
Dialogue: 0,2:00:37.23,2:00:38.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Yes, please.
Dialogue: 0,2:00:38.36,2:00:42.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> And I think part of\Nthe problem that I have
Dialogue: 0,2:00:42.27,2:00:43.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with hearing what they've said
Dialogue: 0,2:00:43.87,2:00:45.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for giving the reasons is\Nwe haven't heard the reason
Dialogue: 0,2:00:45.97,2:00:47.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that makes sense.
Dialogue: 0,2:00:47.34,2:00:50.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's-- why are you\Ncollecting the data,
Dialogue: 0,2:00:50.04,2:00:52.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's like the equivalent\Nof your mom
Dialogue: 0,2:00:52.48,2:00:55.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and dad saying well,\Nbecause I said so.
Dialogue: 0,2:00:55.35,2:00:58.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You have to give it something\Nbehind that, you know, to--
Dialogue: 0,2:00:58.45,2:01:01.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is there a credible threat\Nat whatever level there is.
Dialogue: 0,2:01:01.95,2:01:03.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think Danny is right.
Dialogue: 0,2:01:03.32,2:01:06.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think the threat level from\Nwhat we've read in previous,
Dialogue: 0,2:01:06.72,2:01:08.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you know, speeches\Nby the President is
Dialogue: 0,2:01:08.86,2:01:11.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the threat level is a\Nlot less than it was at 9/11.
Dialogue: 0,2:01:11.30,2:01:13.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, if it's a lot less\Nthan it wasn't 9/11,
Dialogue: 0,2:01:13.10,2:01:15.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,why do we need to expand this?
Dialogue: 0,2:01:15.23,2:01:17.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Give us something to look at.
Dialogue: 0,2:01:17.97,2:01:21.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I think when I hear\Nthem talk about these things
Dialogue: 0,2:01:21.37,2:01:25.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and give these reasons as\Nsomebody who does this type
Dialogue: 0,2:01:25.21,2:01:28.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of metadata analysis\Nand, you know,
Dialogue: 0,2:01:28.08,2:01:30.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just as for my own\Ninfrastructure was certainly
Dialogue: 0,2:01:30.15,2:01:32.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in my own infrastructure I\Ncan do a lot of that analysis.
Dialogue: 0,2:01:32.82,2:01:35.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But there's an uplink to me.
Dialogue: 0,2:01:35.02,2:01:37.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And those people that\Ncontrol that infrastructure,
Dialogue: 0,2:01:37.56,2:01:39.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,my infrastructure,\Nyour infrastructure,
Dialogue: 0,2:01:39.32,2:01:41.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they can do the same\Ntype of analysis
Dialogue: 0,2:01:41.26,2:01:43.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it trees all the way up.
Dialogue: 0,2:01:43.03,2:01:45.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's-- So, why?
Dialogue: 0,2:01:45.66,2:01:48.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You have to give us\Na credible reason.
Dialogue: 0,2:01:48.30,2:01:50.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> But was running through a lot
Dialogue: 0,2:01:50.47,2:01:53.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of your comments is a basic\Nmistrust of government.
Dialogue: 0,2:01:53.70,2:01:55.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean you've been told--
Dialogue: 0,2:01:55.14,2:01:59.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,public has been told by\Nthe Intelligence committees
Dialogue: 0,2:01:59.68,2:02:03.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which have in brief that this\Nis a very valuable tool PRISM
Dialogue: 0,2:02:03.45,2:02:06.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and other surveillance are\Nvery valuable to the President.
Dialogue: 0,2:02:06.05,2:02:09.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Duly elected democratic liberal\Npresident had said it's a very
Dialogue: 0,2:02:09.02,2:02:10.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,valuable tool, the\Nliberal chairman
Dialogue: 0,2:02:10.86,2:02:12.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the Senate Intelligence\NCommittee has said it's a very
Dialogue: 0,2:02:12.89,2:02:15.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,valuable tool and everyone\Nof you is doubting it.
Dialogue: 0,2:02:15.66,2:02:20.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, what is the source of your\Nsuspicions and your mistrust
Dialogue: 0,2:02:20.93,2:02:22.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of what you're being told?
Dialogue: 0,2:02:22.43,2:02:24.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> So, I actually\Ndon't, you know, when--
Dialogue: 0,2:02:24.70,2:02:27.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there's no way for us to\Nknow if it's a valuable tool
Dialogue: 0,2:02:27.54,2:02:28.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or not a valuable tool.
Dialogue: 0,2:02:28.94,2:02:32.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, you could take them at face\Nvalue that it's a valuable tool.
Dialogue: 0,2:02:32.61,2:02:35.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Collection of data\Nis a valuable thing.
Dialogue: 0,2:02:35.45,2:02:39.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's just not the only analysis\Nin a democratic society.
Dialogue: 0,2:02:39.42,2:02:41.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think-- so, I mean, I--
Dialogue: 0,2:02:41.32,2:02:44.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that's I think\Nthe problem here,
Dialogue: 0,2:02:44.16,2:02:48.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we live in a democratic\Nsociety where we're supposed
Dialogue: 0,2:02:48.43,2:02:52.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to have proportional laws\Nthat more than a small number
Dialogue: 0,2:02:52.23,2:02:56.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of people are able to know\Nabout to assess that balance
Dialogue: 0,2:02:56.10,2:02:58.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,between liberty and security.
Dialogue: 0,2:02:58.20,2:03:00.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We really don't have that.
Dialogue: 0,2:03:00.07,2:03:03.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, if this was a discussion
Dialogue: 0,2:03:03.01,2:03:07.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that they were tasking\Nthese companies
Dialogue: 0,2:03:07.31,2:03:11.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with specific request\Nbased on articulable facts
Dialogue: 0,2:03:11.58,2:03:13.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about specific individuals
Dialogue: 0,2:03:13.42,2:03:15.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or even several hundred\Nindividuals,
Dialogue: 0,2:03:15.95,2:03:19.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we might be having a different\Ndiscussion about the balance
Dialogue: 0,2:03:19.06,2:03:21.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,between liberty and security.
Dialogue: 0,2:03:21.33,2:03:23.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But we're having a\Ndiscussion about the value
Dialogue: 0,2:03:23.70,2:03:26.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of basically collecting\Nthe data potentially
Dialogue: 0,2:03:26.43,2:03:27.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on everybody in the world.
Dialogue: 0,2:03:27.57,2:03:29.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, we don't know the set.
Dialogue: 0,2:03:29.97,2:03:33.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, it's not about trust\Nof government or not.
Dialogue: 0,2:03:33.00,2:03:36.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, I think you could\Nprobably come, you know,
Dialogue: 0,2:03:36.17,2:03:39.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,device a program where you\Nknow everything about everybody
Dialogue: 0,2:03:39.34,2:03:41.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the world and claim\Nit makes you safer,
Dialogue: 0,2:03:41.95,2:03:43.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,maybe it makes you safer.
Dialogue: 0,2:03:43.65,2:03:48.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But we no longer are\Nfollowing either the values,
Dialogue: 0,2:03:48.02,2:03:50.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the constitution\Nor the norms of it.
Dialogue: 0,2:03:50.36,2:03:52.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Well, we see you're not\Nfollowing the constitution.
Dialogue: 0,2:03:52.32,2:03:56.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,These laws were passed by\Ndemocratically-elected Congress.
Dialogue: 0,2:03:56.46,2:03:57.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Well, having been there.
Dialogue: 0,2:03:57.93,2:03:58.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah.
Dialogue: 0,2:03:58.50,2:03:59.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Yeah, right.
Dialogue: 0,2:03:59.20,2:04:00.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Having been there,
Dialogue: 0,2:04:00.26,2:04:01.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they didn't know what\Nthey were passing
Dialogue: 0,2:04:01.30,2:04:02.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they didn't know\Nwhat [inaudible].
Dialogue: 0,2:04:02.70,2:04:04.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> So, [inaudible] to that, you\Njust said the issue wasn't trust
Dialogue: 0,2:04:04.17,2:04:05.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you now you just say, well,
Dialogue: 0,2:04:05.84,2:04:07.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they didn't know what\Nthey were passing.
Dialogue: 0,2:04:07.07,2:04:08.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> They didn't know--\Nthey didn't know--
Dialogue: 0,2:04:08.44,2:04:10.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> If you believe well-- well,\Nlet me ask you the question.
Dialogue: 0,2:04:10.54,2:04:13.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you believe in a democratic\Nsystem, now you're saying,
Dialogue: 0,2:04:13.88,2:04:15.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't believe
Dialogue: 0,2:04:15.15,2:04:16.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the democratic process\Nthat's passed these laws.
Dialogue: 0,2:04:16.82,2:04:18.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> No.
Dialogue: 0,2:04:18.02,2:04:19.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> That they were\Nmisinformed and we know better?
Dialogue: 0,2:04:19.28,2:04:23.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> No. The laws have been\Nafter the fact, stretched
Dialogue: 0,2:04:23.46,2:04:26.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and manipulated in ways\Nthe Congress didn't intend.
Dialogue: 0,2:04:26.49,2:04:31.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's where-- and that's\Nwhere we've gone off the rails.
Dialogue: 0,2:04:31.60,2:04:35.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Nobody who is in Congress\Nat that time, Section 215,
Dialogue: 0,2:04:35.57,2:04:37.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the metadata law\Nthat we're talking
Dialogue: 0,2:04:37.27,2:04:40.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about which is aimed\Nspecifically US citizens.
Dialogue: 0,2:04:40.10,2:04:44.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In making the changes they\Nwere making, nobody believed
Dialogue: 0,2:04:44.51,2:04:48.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that relevant data meant\Neverybody in the United States.
Dialogue: 0,2:04:48.78,2:04:49.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Let me ask you--
Dialogue: 0,2:04:49.98,2:04:51.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> So, you know, this is--\Nso this is ultimately--
Dialogue: 0,2:04:51.85,2:04:54.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,yes, it's a question\Nof trust in so far
Dialogue: 0,2:04:54.15,2:04:58.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as the people implementing the\Nlaw have made it as elastic
Dialogue: 0,2:04:58.32,2:05:00.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as possible without it\Ncompletely exploding
Dialogue: 0,2:05:00.42,2:05:04.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it might not be exploding.
Dialogue: 0,2:05:04.10,2:05:05.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> John.
Dialogue: 0,2:05:05.36,2:05:07.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> I've expressed no view\Non whether it's desirable
Dialogue: 0,2:05:07.60,2:05:11.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or undesirable or whether\Nit's illegal or legal.
Dialogue: 0,2:05:11.80,2:05:15.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Neither of those questions\Nare really interesting to me.
Dialogue: 0,2:05:15.51,2:05:18.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When it comes to\Nthe internet though,
Dialogue: 0,2:05:18.91,2:05:22.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the question is there's\Na set of events going
Dialogue: 0,2:05:22.48,2:05:24.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on regarding surveillance,
Dialogue: 0,2:05:24.58,2:05:27.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the internet is\Nglobal in nature.
Dialogue: 0,2:05:27.99,2:05:32.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have allies and\Ntrading partners
Dialogue: 0,2:05:32.02,2:05:39.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and organizations globally,\Nother governments who want
Dialogue: 0,2:05:39.23,2:05:42.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to understand what's going
Dialogue: 0,2:05:42.30,2:05:45.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on because they may\Nhave the same desire.
Dialogue: 0,2:05:45.60,2:05:50.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There may be another government\Nthat wishes for its reasons
Dialogue: 0,2:05:50.74,2:05:54.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to engage in surveillance of\Ncommunication in its country.
Dialogue: 0,2:05:54.98,2:05:58.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it wants to understand\Nwhat is the framework
Dialogue: 0,2:05:58.75,2:06:02.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by which this is occurring\Nand how does it happen
Dialogue: 0,2:06:02.85,2:06:06.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the internet, how was it's\Nsupported, how does it go
Dialogue: 0,2:06:06.56,2:06:09.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on because they have their\Nown national interests
Dialogue: 0,2:06:09.36,2:06:12.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they may pass laws in their\Nregion that are perfectly fine
Dialogue: 0,2:06:12.50,2:06:15.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and acceptable according\Nto their processes.
Dialogue: 0,2:06:15.70,2:06:18.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, we now have this\Nframework that says,
Dialogue: 0,2:06:18.17,2:06:19.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there are circumstances during
Dialogue: 0,2:06:19.74,2:06:22.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which surveillance is\Napparently an accepted part
Dialogue: 0,2:06:22.51,2:06:23.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the architecture.
Dialogue: 0,2:06:23.88,2:06:25.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What we don't have\Nis a transparency
Dialogue: 0,2:06:25.78,2:06:29.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about where that's occurring and\Nhow that occurs and what happens
Dialogue: 0,2:06:29.78,2:06:32.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if another 130 countries\Nalso do it.
Dialogue: 0,2:06:32.55,2:06:37.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I believe that if we're to have\Nequitable internet governance,
Dialogue: 0,2:06:37.42,2:06:40.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's necessary to have\Na fully articulated
Dialogue: 0,2:06:40.42,2:06:42.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and transparent framework.
Dialogue: 0,2:06:42.26,2:06:44.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I do not know whether\Nor not everyone is going
Dialogue: 0,2:06:44.03,2:06:46.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to like what their country\Nchooses for what it does
Dialogue: 0,2:06:46.83,2:06:48.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with surveillance or not.
Dialogue: 0,2:06:48.33,2:06:49.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's a different question.
Dialogue: 0,2:06:49.60,2:06:51.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's a question of laws\Nand governance structure.
Dialogue: 0,2:06:51.74,2:06:54.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But if this is going to go\Non, we need to understand
Dialogue: 0,2:06:54.20,2:06:56.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where it occurs and how\Nit occurs and the fact
Dialogue: 0,2:06:56.74,2:06:58.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that it could be occurring\Nin a lot of places.
Dialogue: 0,2:06:58.98,2:07:01.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that should be understood\Nand documented as part
Dialogue: 0,2:07:01.98,2:07:06.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of a clearly transparent\Nrecognition
Dialogue: 0,2:07:06.35,2:07:08.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that this is part\Nof the internet.
Dialogue: 0,2:07:08.02,2:07:11.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Let me ask you\Nall this question.
Dialogue: 0,2:07:11.09,2:07:12.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You said you're not\Ninterested in legality.
Dialogue: 0,2:07:12.72,2:07:17.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But one of the key debates\Nhere is the legal framework
Dialogue: 0,2:07:17.63,2:07:20.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for PRISM and the FISA law.
Dialogue: 0,2:07:20.40,2:07:26.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there's not much\Ndebate about whether
Dialogue: 0,2:07:26.47,2:07:29.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or what's been taking places\Nlegal or not under the law,
Dialogue: 0,2:07:29.54,2:07:32.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but there's a big debate about\Nwhether the law is the right law
Dialogue: 0,2:07:32.51,2:07:34.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and whether the framework\Nshould be altered.
Dialogue: 0,2:07:34.21,2:07:39.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you all were to testify\Nbefore an intelligence
Dialogue: 0,2:07:39.42,2:07:42.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,committees and others\Non the Hill and asked,
Dialogue: 0,2:07:42.15,2:07:44.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how should this law be change
Dialogue: 0,2:07:44.16,2:07:46.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to advance the values\Nyour talking about?
Dialogue: 0,2:07:46.26,2:07:48.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What would be some\Nof your suggestions?
Dialogue: 0,2:07:48.39,2:07:51.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Go ahead.
Dialogue: 0,2:07:51.70,2:07:54.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> I think we have to start\Nby walking out the changes
Dialogue: 0,2:07:54.93,2:07:59.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we made in the\Nrecords law because we took
Dialogue: 0,2:07:59.10,2:08:02.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,out all the words that\Nmake it proportionate
Dialogue: 0,2:08:02.61,2:08:06.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and make it targeted\Nand transformed it
Dialogue: 0,2:08:06.64,2:08:08.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,into a broad collection statute.
Dialogue: 0,2:08:08.91,2:08:12.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I, you know, I think\Nthe ways to walk it back
Dialogue: 0,2:08:12.18,2:08:17.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that allows substantial\Ncollection of targets
Dialogue: 0,2:08:17.59,2:08:22.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and information related to\Nthat targets and backs it
Dialogue: 0,2:08:22.09,2:08:27.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,out of this broad relevancy\Nstandard that allows it--
Dialogue: 0,2:08:27.50,2:08:30.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if one to be collected\Non anybody but also not--
Dialogue: 0,2:08:30.74,2:08:34.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it just takes out the whole\Nnational security purpose.
Dialogue: 0,2:08:34.67,2:08:38.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Basically, you no longer\Nhave to be collecting data
Dialogue: 0,2:08:38.01,2:08:39.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because of a particular\Nterrorist
Dialogue: 0,2:08:39.78,2:08:42.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or particular intelligence\Nactivity.
Dialogue: 0,2:08:42.85,2:08:45.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You only have to be\Ncollecting in order
Dialogue: 0,2:08:45.55,2:08:47.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to be protecting\Nthe United States.
Dialogue: 0,2:08:47.79,2:08:52.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that is simply to fraud\Nand to likely to abuse.
Dialogue: 0,2:08:52.56,2:08:55.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is harder for me to\Nnote what have changed 702
Dialogue: 0,2:08:55.43,2:08:57.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because we still don't\Nunderstand what they're doing.
Dialogue: 0,2:08:57.60,2:08:59.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> And [inaudible] going\Nto thought about these--
Dialogue: 0,2:08:59.16,2:09:02.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Except for the transparence--\Nexcept for greater transparency.
Dialogue: 0,2:09:02.47,2:09:05.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> 'Cause this is-- this\Nis going to be debated
Dialogue: 0,2:09:05.07,2:09:06.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the weeks and months ahead.
Dialogue: 0,2:09:06.30,2:09:07.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's a very important question.
Dialogue: 0,2:09:07.60,2:09:08.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> But the traditional method
Dialogue: 0,2:09:08.87,2:09:11.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of before the haystack\Nlove [phonetic],
Dialogue: 0,2:09:11.38,2:09:12.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if you allow me to call it that.
Dialogue: 0,2:09:12.88,2:09:14.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Before that was placed,\Nthe traditional methods
Dialogue: 0,2:09:14.68,2:09:16.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of law enforcement\Nworked, and they would work
Dialogue: 0,2:09:16.98,2:09:18.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with whatever the\Ninternet had to provide.
Dialogue: 0,2:09:18.98,2:09:20.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You needed to identify somebody.
Dialogue: 0,2:09:20.52,2:09:24.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You usually identify them\Nthrough a non-technical aspect.
Dialogue: 0,2:09:24.16,2:09:26.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You had an informant\Nsomebody tell you, "Hey,
Dialogue: 0,2:09:26.96,2:09:29.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think that you were doing\Nsomething illegal," and that--
Dialogue: 0,2:09:29.93,2:09:31.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that puts the focus on you.
Dialogue: 0,2:09:31.96,2:09:34.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,From there, you would use\Nyour traditional tools whether
Dialogue: 0,2:09:34.43,2:09:36.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they're on the net or\Nnot to find, you know,
Dialogue: 0,2:09:36.30,2:09:38.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to find out what's going on.
Dialogue: 0,2:09:38.04,2:09:45.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Collecting data when there's\Nno evidence of a crime is kind
Dialogue: 0,2:09:45.14,2:09:47.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of counter intuitive and\Nkind of productive in a way
Dialogue: 0,2:09:47.61,2:09:49.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because it's sitting there.
Dialogue: 0,2:09:49.85,2:09:53.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, if it were me and I was an\Nadversary of the United States,
Dialogue: 0,2:09:53.35,2:09:57.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I would find where those--\Nthat database was being stored
Dialogue: 0,2:09:57.29,2:10:00.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I would go after it to\Ncollect all that information
Dialogue: 0,2:10:00.02,2:10:02.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because I can do the same\Ntype of metadata analysis
Dialogue: 0,2:10:02.13,2:10:03.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that could be done that way.
Dialogue: 0,2:10:03.19,2:10:07.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The third thing is--\Nthe reason why we--
Dialogue: 0,2:10:07.33,2:10:09.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you've mentioned earlier that\Nmaybe we've mistrusted is
Dialogue: 0,2:10:09.57,2:10:14.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because we know what can be\Ndone with that data and we know
Dialogue: 0,2:10:14.00,2:10:15.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when somebody-- we know
Dialogue: 0,2:10:15.14,2:10:18.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when somebody has given\Nus a [inaudible] answer.
Dialogue: 0,2:10:18.11,2:10:20.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because I know that if I\Ncontrol my infrastructure,
Dialogue: 0,2:10:20.68,2:10:23.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I know the power that I\Nhave doing in my office,
Dialogue: 0,2:10:23.85,2:10:27.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I have to act responsibly\Nand within, you know,
Dialogue: 0,2:10:27.08,2:10:28.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the laws and all that.
Dialogue: 0,2:10:28.22,2:10:30.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I know what can be done
Dialogue: 0,2:10:30.05,2:10:33.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if there's no oversight\Non my position.
Dialogue: 0,2:10:33.26,2:10:34.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's why I\Nthink you hear--
Dialogue: 0,2:10:34.96,2:10:36.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> But there is oversight.
Dialogue: 0,2:10:36.23,2:10:38.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is, you know, I mean they--
Dialogue: 0,2:10:38.100,2:10:42.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> It would be if you were-- if\Nyou were the oversight committee
Dialogue: 0,2:10:42.20,2:10:46.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for what I would do technically,\Ndo you have the technical skills
Dialogue: 0,2:10:46.47,2:10:48.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to know what I'm doing?
Dialogue: 0,2:10:48.41,2:10:49.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Inaudible Remark]
Dialogue: 0,2:10:49.41,2:10:52.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> So I'm going to\Nleave the legal--
Dialogue: 0,2:10:52.88,2:10:55.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so the legal policy\Nquestions, I largely agree
Dialogue: 0,2:10:55.88,2:10:57.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with what has been said.
Dialogue: 0,2:10:57.02,2:10:59.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't think that we\Nhave adequate oversight.
Dialogue: 0,2:10:59.08,2:11:02.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And if I were-- I was talking\Nto Congress about what to do
Dialogue: 0,2:11:02.85,2:11:04.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to increase the trust\Nin this environment,
Dialogue: 0,2:11:04.69,2:11:07.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I would say that that Congress
Dialogue: 0,2:11:07.02,2:11:09.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the FISA court\Nneeds a more effective
Dialogue: 0,2:11:09.83,2:11:11.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,accountability mechanism.
Dialogue: 0,2:11:11.30,2:11:14.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is no way that the FISA\Ncourt judges or the members
Dialogue: 0,2:11:14.50,2:11:16.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the Intelligence\Ncommunity are looking
Dialogue: 0,2:11:16.30,2:11:17.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at every single query--
Dialogue: 0,2:11:17.57,2:11:18.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Right.
Dialogue: 0,2:11:18.57,2:11:20.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> -- that NSA analysts\Nare performing
Dialogue: 0,2:11:20.50,2:11:22.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on these enormous\Namounts of data.
Dialogue: 0,2:11:22.01,2:11:23.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is technically possible to do
Dialogue: 0,2:11:23.78,2:11:26.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that to Mike Nelson's [assumed\Nspelling] earlier point
Dialogue: 0,2:11:26.01,2:11:30.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to actually evaluate whether\Nwhen Bob led the general counsel
Dialogue: 0,2:11:30.95,2:11:34.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of ODNI says, "Yeah, we have\Nthe whole state haystack
Dialogue: 0,2:11:34.38,2:11:37.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but we only ask questions\Nbased on certain predicates."
Dialogue: 0,2:11:37.72,2:11:40.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I know Bob and I more\Nor less trust him
Dialogue: 0,2:11:40.29,2:11:43.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I think it's outrageous\Nfor the government to say
Dialogue: 0,2:11:43.66,2:11:46.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to its citizens,\N"Don't worry, trust us."
Dialogue: 0,2:11:46.43,2:11:48.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We give the government\Nconsiderable authority
Dialogue: 0,2:11:48.60,2:11:50.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but we need mechanisms\Nto make sure it's being
Dialogue: 0,2:11:50.40,2:11:51.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,used responsibly.
Dialogue: 0,2:11:51.60,2:11:53.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And none of the oversight\Nmechanisms that exist
Dialogue: 0,2:11:53.54,2:11:57.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that you've mentioned are\Nable to provide that kind
Dialogue: 0,2:11:57.78,2:12:00.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of accountability\Nother than to call
Dialogue: 0,2:12:00.24,2:12:02.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,up a responsible\Nperson like, you know,
Dialogue: 0,2:12:02.58,2:12:03.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mr. Ledin [assumed\Nspelling] say,
Dialogue: 0,2:12:03.75,2:12:04.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Are you following the rules?"
Dialogue: 0,2:12:04.88,2:12:06.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And he says, "Yes, we're\Nfollowing the rules."
Dialogue: 0,2:12:06.52,2:12:09.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He doesn't even know what\Nevery single analyst does
Dialogue: 0,2:12:09.42,2:12:11.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the agencies that's\Nresponsible for it.
Dialogue: 0,2:12:11.12,2:12:15.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Let me ask you about one of\Nthe proposals that has been made
Dialogue: 0,2:12:15.23,2:12:17.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and why they debated\Nin Washington.
Dialogue: 0,2:12:17.16,2:12:20.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so, a lot of people\Npointed out one of the flaws,
Dialogue: 0,2:12:20.83,2:12:23.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,critics had pointed\Nout one of the flaws
Dialogue: 0,2:12:23.17,2:12:26.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the FISA process is there's\Nno adversarial mechanism
Dialogue: 0,2:12:26.80,2:12:31.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,within the FISA system that the\Ngovernment comes in and asks
Dialogue: 0,2:12:31.71,2:12:35.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for permission and there\Nis no counter voice.
Dialogue: 0,2:12:35.65,2:12:37.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is no adversarial\Nproceeding.
Dialogue: 0,2:12:37.35,2:12:42.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And in most legal systems, there\Nis a mechanism for challenging.
Dialogue: 0,2:12:42.22,2:12:45.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, a number of legislative\Nproposals have been advanced
Dialogue: 0,2:12:45.99,2:12:47.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in one form or another.
Dialogue: 0,2:12:47.39,2:12:50.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Is this one of the mechanism set\Nthat Congress should be looking
Dialogue: 0,2:12:50.36,2:12:53.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at to try to reorder\Nthis balance that many
Dialogue: 0,2:12:53.53,2:12:55.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of you think is out way?
Dialogue: 0,2:12:55.17,2:12:59.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Yeah. I actually think\Nthis question of some kind
Dialogue: 0,2:12:59.27,2:13:02.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of a public advocate and\NI think it's probably--
Dialogue: 0,2:13:02.31,2:13:05.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we figured it out how to give\Nprivate lawyers the ability
Dialogue: 0,2:13:05.58,2:13:07.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to look at classified\Ninformation
Dialogue: 0,2:13:07.38,2:13:09.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and criminal procedures.
Dialogue: 0,2:13:09.38,2:13:12.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We ought to be able to come up\Nwith this table of those people
Dialogue: 0,2:13:12.22,2:13:15.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who litigate the\Nnational security state,
Dialogue: 0,2:13:15.35,2:13:18.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who can stand in for the public.
Dialogue: 0,2:13:18.36,2:13:24.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, you know, I think it's one\Nof many potential points of sort
Dialogue: 0,2:13:24.76,2:13:28.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of strengthening oversight here.
Dialogue: 0,2:13:28.30,2:13:30.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think it's-- I think\Nit's critically important.
Dialogue: 0,2:13:30.84,2:13:32.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think different levels of sort
Dialogue: 0,2:13:32.34,2:13:35.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of reporting back\Nto the FISA court.
Dialogue: 0,2:13:35.04,2:13:37.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think part of the\Nproblem and the reason
Dialogue: 0,2:13:37.04,2:13:39.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that people are responding\Nis, I mean,
Dialogue: 0,2:13:39.48,2:13:42.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's interesting FISA was\Na civil liberties measure
Dialogue: 0,2:13:42.91,2:13:46.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when it was adopted in 1978.
Dialogue: 0,2:13:46.15,2:13:48.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, you know, it's basically\Nmy mentors were the civil
Dialogue: 0,2:13:48.69,2:13:51.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,libertarians who\Nproposed this crazy idea.
Dialogue: 0,2:13:51.59,2:13:58.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the world is really\Ndifferent from the ones in 1978.
Dialogue: 0,2:13:58.70,2:14:02.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And being in contact with\Na foreign person, I mean,
Dialogue: 0,2:14:02.30,2:14:03.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you know, there was\Nan iron curtain.
Dialogue: 0,2:14:03.97,2:14:05.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you were-- if they\Ncould actually figure
Dialogue: 0,2:14:05.44,2:14:08.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,out you were communicating\Nwith a foreign person,
Dialogue: 0,2:14:08.24,2:14:10.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it probably had some\Nsignificance.
Dialogue: 0,2:14:10.71,2:14:12.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We now live in this\Nworld where 20 percent
Dialogue: 0,2:14:12.78,2:14:15.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of us are first generation,
Dialogue: 0,2:14:15.75,2:14:18.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where our corporations\Nare global,
Dialogue: 0,2:14:18.55,2:14:21.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where we travel all the\Ntime, and where we--
Dialogue: 0,2:14:21.89,2:14:24.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people don't identify\Nthemselves in that the same kind
Dialogue: 0,2:14:24.56,2:14:28.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of we-them way and\Nyet we have a law
Dialogue: 0,2:14:28.23,2:14:31.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and a designation\Nof foreign persons.
Dialogue: 0,2:14:31.30,2:14:34.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That really is a Cold\NWar era and almost has
Dialogue: 0,2:14:34.97,2:14:37.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to be reconsidered\Nall by itself.
Dialogue: 0,2:14:37.24,2:14:39.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the law can't\Nbe working very well
Dialogue: 0,2:14:39.87,2:14:41.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because it's not\Nsupposed to sweep
Dialogue: 0,2:14:41.67,2:14:43.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,up American's communications.
Dialogue: 0,2:14:43.54,2:14:46.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And all you have to do is read\Nthe minimization guidelines
Dialogue: 0,2:14:46.08,2:14:48.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to understand how much of our\Ncommunications [inaudible].
Dialogue: 0,2:14:48.85,2:14:53.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Hal Berghel wrote\Nan interesting article
Dialogue: 0,2:14:53.15,2:14:56.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that just came out in\NIEEE Computer magazine.
Dialogue: 0,2:14:56.09,2:14:57.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's called "Through\Nthe PRISM Darkly".
Dialogue: 0,2:14:57.79,2:15:00.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there's a quote\Nin there that says,
Dialogue: 0,2:15:00.02,2:15:01.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"The Foreign Intelligence\NSurveillance Court has an
Dialogue: 0,2:15:01.89,2:15:05.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,approval rate of 99.93 percent\Nof all surveillance requests.
Dialogue: 0,2:15:05.93,2:15:08.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,While this might not meet\Nthe strict definition
Dialogue: 0,2:15:08.67,2:15:10.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of a kangaroo court,\Nit seems to fall
Dialogue: 0,2:15:10.90,2:15:13.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,within the marsupial family."
Dialogue: 0,2:15:13.24,2:15:13.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So--
Dialogue: 0,2:15:13.97,2:15:15.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ Laughter ]
Dialogue: 0,2:15:15.34,2:15:18.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The point of it is is that there\Nare, you know, there are two
Dialogue: 0,2:15:18.51,2:15:22.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and he calls them cyber urban\Nmyths that deal with this.
Dialogue: 0,2:15:22.05,2:15:25.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One is that you do need\Nto all of this, you know,
Dialogue: 0,2:15:25.22,2:15:28.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,information to do it\Nand that there's not--
Dialogue: 0,2:15:28.75,2:15:30.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there's sufficient oversight.
Dialogue: 0,2:15:30.82,2:15:31.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think we all agree,
Dialogue: 0,2:15:31.86,2:15:34.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there's not sufficient\Noversight.
Dialogue: 0,2:15:34.52,2:15:39.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You wouldn't ask me to be on\Na medical oversight committee
Dialogue: 0,2:15:39.80,2:15:42.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to review surgical procedures
Dialogue: 0,2:15:42.03,2:15:43.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because I'm not a\Ndoctor, I'm not a surgeon.
Dialogue: 0,2:15:43.80,2:15:46.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't have that\Nexpertise in that area.
Dialogue: 0,2:15:46.07,2:15:47.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so, I think that's the--
Dialogue: 0,2:15:47.37,2:15:49.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think that's the thing
Dialogue: 0,2:15:49.04,2:15:53.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that bothers the technology\Npeople is we know it is a small
Dialogue: 0,2:15:53.24,2:15:56.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,community of the actual people\Nthat know the nuts and bolts
Dialogue: 0,2:15:56.01,2:15:58.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about technology security\Nfrom that standpoint.
Dialogue: 0,2:15:58.62,2:16:00.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And if we don't know\Neach other by--
Dialogue: 0,2:16:00.82,2:16:04.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,personally, we know each other\Nby reputation and whatever.
Dialogue: 0,2:16:04.09,2:16:07.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so when you look and\Nyou query your other peers
Dialogue: 0,2:16:07.99,2:16:10.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they have the same\Nmisgivings that you do,
Dialogue: 0,2:16:10.16,2:16:11.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then it makes you\Nwonder what's going on.
Dialogue: 0,2:16:11.60,2:16:15.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> I just want to make one\Nother point about the people
Dialogue: 0,2:16:15.80,2:16:19.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who are being swept up in\Nthis-- in this surveillance.
Dialogue: 0,2:16:19.20,2:16:20.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think one of the reasons
Dialogue: 0,2:16:20.70,2:16:23.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that more fine-grained\Naccountability is really
Dialogue: 0,2:16:23.04,2:16:26.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,critical is we don't know
Dialogue: 0,2:16:26.11,2:16:29.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I think it's a safe\Nassumption that, you know,
Dialogue: 0,2:16:29.38,2:16:32.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,somewhere north of 90 percent\Nof the people who are on any
Dialogue: 0,2:16:32.68,2:16:36.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of these terrorism watch list\Nwho were the targets of any
Dialogue: 0,2:16:36.15,2:16:38.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of this surveillance\Nare Arab-Americans
Dialogue: 0,2:16:38.62,2:16:40.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who have some connection\Nto the Middle East,
Dialogue: 0,2:16:40.42,2:16:42.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,many of whom are\Nprobably Muslims.
Dialogue: 0,2:16:42.83,2:16:45.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In this country, we don't\Nhave a great history
Dialogue: 0,2:16:45.56,2:16:49.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of treating minorities\Nperfectly fairly.
Dialogue: 0,2:16:49.73,2:16:54.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And part of the reason we\Nhave oversight mechanisms,
Dialogue: 0,2:16:54.30,2:16:57.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,part of reason we have open\Ncourts, part of reason we try
Dialogue: 0,2:16:57.17,2:17:02.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to have due process with public\Nvisibility is to make sure
Dialogue: 0,2:17:02.71,2:17:05.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we actually do\Nour job and really--
Dialogue: 0,2:17:05.52,2:17:08.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and really treating people\Nfairly and not discriminating.
Dialogue: 0,2:17:08.08,2:17:11.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And again, I don't--\NI don't think--
Dialogue: 0,2:17:11.52,2:17:13.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think it's really interesting,\Nyou hear this panel,
Dialogue: 0,2:17:13.59,2:17:14.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you hear the public discussion.
Dialogue: 0,2:17:14.89,2:17:16.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't think through\Nthat many people saying,
Dialogue: 0,2:17:16.99,2:17:18.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Stop the Surveillance."
Dialogue: 0,2:17:18.90,2:17:20.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People are not saying that I was
Dialogue: 0,2:17:20.03,2:17:22.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in Boston during the\Nmarathon bombings.
Dialogue: 0,2:17:22.40,2:17:25.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People are clamoring for the\Ninstillation of more cameras.
Dialogue: 0,2:17:25.04,2:17:27.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, the question\NI really believe is not
Dialogue: 0,2:17:27.64,2:17:30.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about whether law enforcement\Nshould have these tools.
Dialogue: 0,2:17:30.51,2:17:32.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's about whether\Nwe can feel confident
Dialogue: 0,2:17:32.11,2:17:34.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that they're using\Nthem responsibly.
Dialogue: 0,2:17:34.78,2:17:37.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> One of you made\Nthe point that--
Dialogue: 0,2:17:37.78,2:17:39.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,actually, this is\Nnot a new issue--
Dialogue: 0,2:17:39.48,2:17:42.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that just a few years ago,\NWashington posted an expose,
Dialogue: 0,2:17:42.85,2:17:46.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a very lengthy one, Diana Press\N[assumed spelling] and others.
Dialogue: 0,2:17:46.42,2:17:50.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there was not anything\Nlike the same kind of reaction
Dialogue: 0,2:17:50.46,2:17:52.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that there's been lately.
Dialogue: 0,2:17:52.26,2:17:55.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I'm wondering why you\Nthink what's the difference,
Dialogue: 0,2:17:55.33,2:17:58.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,why has there been such--\Nwhy are we having this panel
Dialogue: 0,2:17:58.54,2:17:59.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and not three years ago.
Dialogue: 0,2:17:59.64,2:18:01.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Why is there so much\Nconversation now
Dialogue: 0,2:18:01.57,2:18:04.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about this issue\Nwhen, in fact, when--
Dialogue: 0,2:18:04.67,2:18:08.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at least some of this\Nwas made known through--
Dialogue: 0,2:18:08.38,2:18:10.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to post another mechanisms\Nsome years ago?
Dialogue: 0,2:18:10.45,2:18:11.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Smartphones.
Dialogue: 0,2:18:11.82,2:18:13.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> We didn't have the numbers,\Nwe didn't have the numbers.
Dialogue: 0,2:18:13.48,2:18:15.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, from the Verizon\Norder, we now know.
Dialogue: 0,2:18:15.85,2:18:17.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's-- I don't remember\Nhow many millions
Dialogue: 0,2:18:17.32,2:18:18.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of people's records were--
Dialogue: 0,2:18:18.72,2:18:20.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,tens of millions of people's\Nrecords were collected.
Dialogue: 0,2:18:20.82,2:18:23.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We had-- we have\Ngeneral outlines
Dialogue: 0,2:18:23.29,2:18:26.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from the post reporting,\Nfrom, you know, from all kinds
Dialogue: 0,2:18:26.93,2:18:30.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of things but we did-- it was\Nnot dramatized with numbers.
Dialogue: 0,2:18:30.30,2:18:33.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think and now we know\Nit's basically everyone's data.
Dialogue: 0,2:18:33.64,2:18:35.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We never actually knew\Nthat was happening.
Dialogue: 0,2:18:35.64,2:18:36.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Right. I think that's right.
Dialogue: 0,2:18:36.54,2:18:38.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I also think there was an uproar
Dialogue: 0,2:18:38.61,2:18:43.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when the warrantless\Nwiretapping was first revealed.
Dialogue: 0,2:18:43.28,2:18:45.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We had a very big\Nbattle in Congress.
Dialogue: 0,2:18:45.75,2:18:47.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People were really\Nworried about it.
Dialogue: 0,2:18:47.55,2:18:49.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People who were not\Nfollowing it closely
Dialogue: 0,2:18:49.42,2:18:51.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they passed an amendment\Nmight have actually thought
Dialogue: 0,2:18:51.92,2:18:54.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that what we wound\Nup with was some kind
Dialogue: 0,2:18:54.32,2:18:56.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of additional procedural\Nprotections.
Dialogue: 0,2:18:56.09,2:18:59.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Instead, we wound up-- what we\Nwound up with was a ratification
Dialogue: 0,2:18:59.73,2:19:01.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of that program, immunity
Dialogue: 0,2:19:01.90,2:19:05.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for the providers,\Nand not much more.
Dialogue: 0,2:19:05.47,2:19:09.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so I, you know, I\Nthink a lot of us knew some
Dialogue: 0,2:19:09.17,2:19:12.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of this was going on but\NI think we didn't know.
Dialogue: 0,2:19:12.01,2:19:14.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One of my colleagues, Jim\NDempsey who's on the Privacy
Dialogue: 0,2:19:14.84,2:19:19.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and Civil Liberties Oversight\NBoard wrote an article saying,
Dialogue: 0,2:19:19.88,2:19:22.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Did they just approve\Na vacuum cleaner?"
Dialogue: 0,2:19:22.85,2:19:25.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And lots of people then\Nresponded with, "Oh,
Dialogue: 0,2:19:25.49,2:19:28.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you know, that's ridiculous."
Dialogue: 0,2:19:28.09,2:19:31.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, no, in fact, they\Napproved a vacuum cleaner
Dialogue: 0,2:19:31.53,2:19:33.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we didn't know it.
Dialogue: 0,2:19:33.30,2:19:34.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Laura? Laura.
Dialogue: 0,2:19:34.43,2:19:35.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> I agree with those points.
Dialogue: 0,2:19:35.57,2:19:38.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think it is a matter\Nof scale in this case.
Dialogue: 0,2:19:38.04,2:19:39.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I think there are\Nfew other points, too,
Dialogue: 0,2:19:39.67,2:19:41.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that are a little\Nbit more subtle.
Dialogue: 0,2:19:41.47,2:19:43.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, one issue is that this came
Dialogue: 0,2:19:43.21,2:19:46.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,after Hillary Clinton's\Ninternet freedom speech
Dialogue: 0,2:19:46.81,2:19:50.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and this entire mean\N[phonetic] that has been created
Dialogue: 0,2:19:50.98,2:19:54.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I think rightly\Nreplicated around the world
Dialogue: 0,2:19:54.32,2:19:55.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about internet freedom.
Dialogue: 0,2:19:55.79,2:20:00.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, this is a very important\Nissue and what this does is it--
Dialogue: 0,2:20:00.89,2:20:03.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's providing an opportunity\Nfor people to challenge
Dialogue: 0,2:20:03.73,2:20:07.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that notion of the internet\Nfreedom and to point
Dialogue: 0,2:20:07.03,2:20:09.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,out what they're\Ncalling hypocrisy.
Dialogue: 0,2:20:09.57,2:20:12.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, that to me is a problem.
Dialogue: 0,2:20:12.27,2:20:16.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It can also be an opportunity\Nif it's addressed appropriately.
Dialogue: 0,2:20:16.44,2:20:21.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Another issue is that individual\Ncitizens are living their life
Dialogue: 0,2:20:21.51,2:20:23.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,online to a much greater extent
Dialogue: 0,2:20:23.38,2:20:25.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,than they did five\Nyears ago even.
Dialogue: 0,2:20:25.05,2:20:27.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's really amazing\Nif you think.
Dialogue: 0,2:20:27.05,2:20:29.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, I'll just give you\Nan example I was talking
Dialogue: 0,2:20:29.02,2:20:29.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about today.
Dialogue: 0,2:20:29.82,2:20:31.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, five years ago, I was--
Dialogue: 0,2:20:31.86,2:20:34.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I would read the paper\Nin the morning and now,
Dialogue: 0,2:20:34.22,2:20:37.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm completely connected to\Nmy smartphone all the time
Dialogue: 0,2:20:37.19,2:20:40.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I am posting information,\NI'm communicating in it.
Dialogue: 0,2:20:40.40,2:20:42.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, the public sphere\Nis what's at stake here.
Dialogue: 0,2:20:42.80,2:20:44.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The public sphere is online.
Dialogue: 0,2:20:44.47,2:20:45.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think that\Nthat is much greater
Dialogue: 0,2:20:45.80,2:20:48.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,than during these last\Ninstances a few years ago
Dialogue: 0,2:20:48.61,2:20:49.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that were mentioned.
Dialogue: 0,2:20:49.87,2:20:53.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, scale, the issue of\Npeople being more cognizant
Dialogue: 0,2:20:53.14,2:20:56.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about how their internal\Nprivate life is lived
Dialogue: 0,2:20:56.25,2:20:59.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,out in the digital\Nrealm and also the mean
Dialogue: 0,2:20:59.18,2:21:01.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that has been fairly successful
Dialogue: 0,2:21:01.68,2:21:03.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about internet freedom\Nhas ensued
Dialogue: 0,2:21:03.99,2:21:06.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in these intervening years.
Dialogue: 0,2:21:06.86,2:21:09.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> I think those were\Ngrilling [phonetic] points.
Dialogue: 0,2:21:09.43,2:21:10.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Yeah. [Multiple Speakers]
Dialogue: 0,2:21:10.39,2:21:12.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> I was just going\Nto say quickly
Dialogue: 0,2:21:12.26,2:21:15.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that technology makes lots of\Nthings possible and it was clear
Dialogue: 0,2:21:15.73,2:21:17.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the time of those articles.
Dialogue: 0,2:21:17.17,2:21:18.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's clear today.
Dialogue: 0,2:21:18.50,2:21:21.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It doesn't mean that\Nit's eminently minable
Dialogue: 0,2:21:21.24,2:21:23.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but that's done outside\Nof due process.
Dialogue: 0,2:21:23.97,2:21:25.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think those are the things
Dialogue: 0,2:21:25.14,2:21:26.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that are getting\Npeople excitable.
Dialogue: 0,2:21:26.51,2:21:30.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's not technology and it's\Nnot what's technically possible
Dialogue: 0,2:21:30.11,2:21:32.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or even what's technically\Nfeasible.
Dialogue: 0,2:21:32.02,2:21:37.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's actually ultimately\Nthe full mining
Dialogue: 0,2:21:37.22,2:21:39.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then the lack\Nof public scrutiny.
Dialogue: 0,2:21:39.79,2:21:41.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> What about the argument\Nthat you hear from some people
Dialogue: 0,2:21:41.89,2:21:45.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that not only are we three\Nyears farther away from 9/11?
Dialogue: 0,2:21:45.80,2:21:48.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Several of you made\Nthe point that a lot
Dialogue: 0,2:21:48.50,2:21:52.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of these original\Nprocesses were passed almost
Dialogue: 0,2:21:52.17,2:21:55.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in a battlefield mentality,\None of you used that phrase.
Dialogue: 0,2:21:55.67,2:22:01.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that there were extreme\Ncircumstances with the value
Dialogue: 0,2:22:01.48,2:22:02.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of national security
Dialogue: 0,2:22:02.48,2:22:04.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in protecting the\Nhomeland very much
Dialogue: 0,2:22:04.82,2:22:06.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the forefront\Nof a public debate.
Dialogue: 0,2:22:06.78,2:22:10.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So you got three years later\Nbut some people would argue--
Dialogue: 0,2:22:10.65,2:22:12.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there's almost a\Ncontradiction here.
Dialogue: 0,2:22:12.29,2:22:14.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Certainly the intelligence\Ncommunity would say, "Well,
Dialogue: 0,2:22:14.76,2:22:18.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,actually people are more\Nrelaxed now and less concerned
Dialogue: 0,2:22:18.33,2:22:21.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about the threat because\Nour systems have worked
Dialogue: 0,2:22:21.63,2:22:24.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that you shouldn't\Nbe dismantling systems
Dialogue: 0,2:22:24.47,2:22:26.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which have actually made\Npeople more secure."
Dialogue: 0,2:22:26.57,2:22:27.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How would you answer that?
Dialogue: 0,2:22:27.94,2:22:29.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Let's concentrate to what\Nthe President has said though.
Dialogue: 0,2:22:29.34,2:22:31.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, what the\NPresident has told us--
Dialogue: 0,2:22:31.24,2:22:33.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Although he has said\Nhe's in favor of the system.
Dialogue: 0,2:22:33.11,2:22:36.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Yes. And he said that\Nthe capability is necessary.
Dialogue: 0,2:22:36.95,2:22:39.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He's in no way precluded\Nadditional oversight.
Dialogue: 0,2:22:39.85,2:22:42.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think he's actually\Nwelcomed the discussion of--
Dialogue: 0,2:22:42.29,2:22:43.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Sure.
Dialogue: 0,2:22:43.35,2:22:44.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> -- of what kind\Nof oversight we need.
Dialogue: 0,2:22:44.69,2:22:49.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But he said we're living\Nit in a lower threat level
Dialogue: 0,2:22:49.23,2:22:52.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that we need to make\Nchanges as a society
Dialogue: 0,2:22:52.40,2:22:54.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and as government\Nin response to that.
Dialogue: 0,2:22:54.46,2:22:57.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, not the other way around.
Dialogue: 0,2:22:57.97,2:23:03.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Edward Snowden, to some\Npeople he's a traitor.
Dialogue: 0,2:23:03.94,2:23:05.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,To some people, he's a hero.
Dialogue: 0,2:23:05.38,2:23:07.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What do you think?
Dialogue: 0,2:23:07.11,2:23:11.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Everybody, on your clearance\Nyou signed a document that says,
Dialogue: 0,2:23:11.65,2:23:15.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"If you disclose secrecy,\Nthere's a penalty."
Dialogue: 0,2:23:15.79,2:23:18.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, from that standpoint,\Nyou clearly violated
Dialogue: 0,2:23:18.82,2:23:23.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that document and, you know,\NI don't have a problem with--
Dialogue: 0,2:23:23.93,2:23:26.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with being prosecuted\Nbecause of that.
Dialogue: 0,2:23:26.56,2:23:27.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,On the oversight--
Dialogue: 0,2:23:27.86,2:23:29.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Because it this contractual--
Dialogue: 0,2:23:29.63,2:23:30.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Because it is contractual.
Dialogue: 0,2:23:30.87,2:23:32.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, it states, "Anybody\Nwho has a clearance."
Dialogue: 0,2:23:32.34,2:23:34.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You have that-- it's in\Nyour-- in the agreement,
Dialogue: 0,2:23:34.60,2:23:38.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it says clearly that you,\Nyou know, 25 years in prison
Dialogue: 0,2:23:38.31,2:23:39.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or whatever it is that--
Dialogue: 0,2:23:39.31,2:23:40.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> You actually read that?
Dialogue: 0,2:23:40.04,2:23:41.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> No, it's-- yeah.
Dialogue: 0,2:23:41.81,2:23:44.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It happens when you come from\Na family of lawyers, you know.
Dialogue: 0,2:23:44.52,2:23:45.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> It's privacy policy.
Dialogue: 0,2:23:45.85,2:23:48.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> No. I mean, you look-- yeah,\NI mean, if I'm going to go
Dialogue: 0,2:23:48.05,2:23:50.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to jail, I want to know\Nwhat I have to say, right?
Dialogue: 0,2:23:50.22,2:23:52.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, so I think-- I think\Nfrom that standpoint, yes.
Dialogue: 0,2:23:52.92,2:23:54.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think the rest of the\Ncommunity is still trying
Dialogue: 0,2:23:54.79,2:23:57.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to divide it as to whether\Nor not the information
Dialogue: 0,2:23:57.90,2:24:01.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that is disclosed is a problem.
Dialogue: 0,2:24:01.06,2:24:03.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And some people go back kind
Dialogue: 0,2:24:03.10,2:24:06.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of like what I was saying\Nis there have been articles
Dialogue: 0,2:24:06.07,2:24:08.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about this for, you\Nknow, a long time.
Dialogue: 0,2:24:08.17,2:24:10.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, you can go\Nback into the '70s
Dialogue: 0,2:24:10.37,2:24:14.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when NSA had the ECHELON\Nprogram, in the mid-'90s
Dialogue: 0,2:24:14.44,2:24:16.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with Omnivore and\NCarnivore, you know,
Dialogue: 0,2:24:16.61,2:24:17.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all of those type of things.
Dialogue: 0,2:24:17.65,2:24:18.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You've had this type
Dialogue: 0,2:24:18.82,2:24:20.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of electronic surveillance\Nfor quite sometime.
Dialogue: 0,2:24:20.88,2:24:24.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, we're not quite sure what\Nit is and not having seen all
Dialogue: 0,2:24:24.05,2:24:27.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that is disclosed but we're\Nnot quite sure of what it is
Dialogue: 0,2:24:27.22,2:24:31.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that he's telling the world\Nthat we don't know already.
Dialogue: 0,2:24:31.83,2:24:35.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so from that stand point,\NI think part of my community,
Dialogue: 0,2:24:35.30,2:24:37.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we're not sure about\Nthe content.
Dialogue: 0,2:24:37.90,2:24:40.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But certainly he violated an\Nagreement and he, you know,
Dialogue: 0,2:24:40.74,2:24:43.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's what they're going\Nto go after him for.
Dialogue: 0,2:24:43.04,2:24:46.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> So I have mixed views\Nabout Snowden because I think
Dialogue: 0,2:24:46.41,2:24:49.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that whistleblowing in a\Nfree society and a right
Dialogue: 0,2:24:49.21,2:24:51.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to know is critically important.
Dialogue: 0,2:24:51.35,2:24:54.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And if you go back\Nto Pentagon Papers
Dialogue: 0,2:24:54.65,2:24:57.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and terrible things did not\Nhappen with the publishing
Dialogue: 0,2:24:57.79,2:24:59.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the Pentagon Papers.
Dialogue: 0,2:24:59.52,2:25:02.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ Pause ]
Dialogue: 0,2:25:02.23,2:25:04.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So-- so, part of--
Dialogue: 0,2:25:04.26,2:25:05.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> I'll cover the\NPentagon Papers story and--
Dialogue: 0,2:25:05.80,2:25:06.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> I'm sure--
Dialogue: 0,2:25:06.80,2:25:07.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> -- cover Daniel\NEllsberg's trial.
Dialogue: 0,2:25:07.76,2:25:08.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, I'm--
Dialogue: 0,2:25:08.46,2:25:09.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> And Ellsberg's trial.
Dialogue: 0,2:25:09.10,2:25:09.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Yes.
Dialogue: 0,2:25:09.80,2:25:10.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> And Ellsberg is very,
Dialogue: 0,2:25:10.83,2:25:13.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,very out there right\Nnow about Snowden.
Dialogue: 0,2:25:13.77,2:25:16.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I was kind of right with him
Dialogue: 0,2:25:16.07,2:25:21.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,until he started keeping away\Nthe US cyber security strategy
Dialogue: 0,2:25:21.31,2:25:24.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with respect to China\Nwhile he was in Hong Kong.
Dialogue: 0,2:25:24.11,2:25:29.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then I started to wonder\Nexactly what he's motivations
Dialogue: 0,2:25:29.25,2:25:30.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,were, you know.
Dialogue: 0,2:25:30.59,2:25:35.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so, I do feel like\Nthere's a level or recklessness
Dialogue: 0,2:25:35.53,2:25:42.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that worries me and although\Nit's hard for me to really know
Dialogue: 0,2:25:42.30,2:25:45.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if there's damage to national\Nsecurity because I've set
Dialogue: 0,2:25:45.84,2:25:48.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in some of these meetings\Nwith national security people
Dialogue: 0,2:25:48.97,2:25:51.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who I've held up the\Nminimization guidelines
Dialogue: 0,2:25:51.91,2:25:53.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and said, "Is there anything
Dialogue: 0,2:25:53.28,2:25:55.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in here that's really\Nsecret or should be?"
Dialogue: 0,2:25:55.38,2:25:56.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And they said, "No."
Dialogue: 0,2:25:56.85,2:26:00.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The existence of\Nthese programs sort
Dialogue: 0,2:26:00.18,2:26:02.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of have been broad-brushed\Nsome people knew.
Dialogue: 0,2:26:02.85,2:26:05.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, if at the end of the day,
Dialogue: 0,2:26:05.02,2:26:06.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's that the public\Nfinally knows
Dialogue: 0,2:26:06.39,2:26:08.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that it's happening\N'cause I'm not sure
Dialogue: 0,2:26:08.32,2:26:10.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if any thing's been revealed\Nthat will allow people
Dialogue: 0,2:26:10.89,2:26:15.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to somehow evade all of this,\Nthat, I think, you know,
Dialogue: 0,2:26:15.23,2:26:18.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,society has to make\Nroom for whistleblowers.
Dialogue: 0,2:26:18.30,2:26:20.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I just wish we had\Nwhistleblowers
Dialogue: 0,2:26:20.30,2:26:23.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who were a little less reckless.
Dialogue: 0,2:26:23.41,2:26:24.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Well, you know,\Nas a whistleblower,
Dialogue: 0,2:26:24.71,2:26:26.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he appears to have\Ndelusions of grandeur.
Dialogue: 0,2:26:26.91,2:26:28.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Well, right.
Dialogue: 0,2:26:28.01,2:26:28.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> I mean, the first\Ncouple of days, he had--
Dialogue: 0,2:26:28.98,2:26:31.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he'd made statements\Nsuch as saying--
Dialogue: 0,2:26:31.01,2:26:33.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,such as that he could order\Na wiretap of the President
Dialogue: 0,2:26:33.48,2:26:35.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and he could, you know,\Nhad all the locations
Dialogue: 0,2:26:35.85,2:26:37.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of all the NSA stations.
Dialogue: 0,2:26:37.25,2:26:42.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Pretty unlikely, that said,\NI guess the, you know,
Dialogue: 0,2:26:42.63,2:26:45.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think that his disclosures\Nhave done a public service.
Dialogue: 0,2:26:45.80,2:26:47.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think he's a whistleblower\Nin that sense.
Dialogue: 0,2:26:47.93,2:26:48.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I actually agree.
Dialogue: 0,2:26:48.100,2:26:50.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It seems like he\Njust broken the law
Dialogue: 0,2:26:50.43,2:26:52.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and doesn't seem\Nvery complicated.
Dialogue: 0,2:26:52.34,2:26:55.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What I find confusing and--
Dialogue: 0,2:26:55.20,2:26:59.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that somehow the\Ntraditional notion
Dialogue: 0,2:26:59.68,2:27:02.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of civil disobedience seems\Nto have been lost track
Dialogue: 0,2:27:02.88,2:27:04.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of in what he's doing.
Dialogue: 0,2:27:04.51,2:27:06.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, I wish-- I mean, look,
Dialogue: 0,2:27:06.25,2:27:09.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he's obviously has put his\Nlife at total risk and--
Dialogue: 0,2:27:09.35,2:27:11.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Although traditional\Nidea is you pay the penalty
Dialogue: 0,2:27:11.62,2:27:12.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for having broken the law.
Dialogue: 0,2:27:12.96,2:27:14.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> You pay the penalty and\Nyou [inaudible] having a trial
Dialogue: 0,2:27:14.32,2:27:16.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you expose-- you expose the\Nthings that you're concerned
Dialogue: 0,2:27:16.99,2:27:19.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about and you expose\Nthem, further look at me.
Dialogue: 0,2:27:19.26,2:27:20.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He's a civilian.
Dialogue: 0,2:27:20.60,2:27:23.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He wouldn't be tried in a\Ncourt martial the way Bradley
Dialogue: 0,2:27:23.67,2:27:24.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Manning is.
Dialogue: 0,2:27:24.40,2:27:25.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Right.
Dialogue: 0,2:27:25.40,2:27:26.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> He could've staged\Na public trial
Dialogue: 0,2:27:26.80,2:27:30.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and a big public discussion that\Nhe chose not to and I, you know,
Dialogue: 0,2:27:30.54,2:27:31.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,again, it's not for me
Dialogue: 0,2:27:31.91,2:27:35.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to say how people should put\Ntheir lives at risk as he'd has
Dialogue: 0,2:27:35.51,2:27:38.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I think it's a-- I think\Nit's an incomplete active
Dialogue: 0,2:27:38.78,2:27:40.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,civil disobedience.
Dialogue: 0,2:27:40.45,2:27:42.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Anybody else want\Nit, got a view on that?
Dialogue: 0,2:27:42.52,2:27:45.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Let me ask you another question.
Dialogue: 0,2:27:45.16,2:27:49.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One of the things that\NDan said that the--
Dialogue: 0,2:27:49.06,2:27:51.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are the very interesting\Nanalysis when he talked
Dialogue: 0,2:27:51.26,2:27:53.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about the internet not being\Na creature of the state,
Dialogue: 0,2:27:53.86,2:27:55.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how earlier forms
Dialogue: 0,2:27:55.93,2:27:59.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of communication whether\Nit's telephones and telegraph
Dialogue: 0,2:27:59.94,2:28:02.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and so many of them grew up.
Dialogue: 0,2:28:02.20,2:28:05.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Television spectrums,\NI mean, they were sold
Dialogue: 0,2:28:05.14,2:28:07.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by the government,\Nright, and still are.
Dialogue: 0,2:28:07.18,2:28:12.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, there was an inherent\Nregulatory legal organic
Dialogue: 0,2:28:12.02,2:28:14.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,connection between earlier\Nforms of communication
Dialogue: 0,2:28:14.48,2:28:18.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and government regulation which,\Nas you point out is missing
Dialogue: 0,2:28:18.29,2:28:22.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in a large part in this\Nparticular system we've all been
Dialogue: 0,2:28:22.16,2:28:23.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,talking about.
Dialogue: 0,2:28:23.59,2:28:25.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> But it's more than a legal\Nquestion it seems to me,
Dialogue: 0,2:28:25.56,2:28:30.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's also a cultural question,\Nthat a lot of you being soaked
Dialogue: 0,2:28:30.77,2:28:32.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in this culture and committed
Dialogue: 0,2:28:32.60,2:28:37.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to this culture have evinced\Nskepticism of government
Dialogue: 0,2:28:37.61,2:28:42.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and of regulation and yet at\Nthe same time, you're grappling
Dialogue: 0,2:28:42.04,2:28:46.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the notion of how do you\Nbring some order to a system
Dialogue: 0,2:28:46.02,2:28:50.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that continues to cry out\Nfor some kind of regulation.
Dialogue: 0,2:28:50.92,2:28:53.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm interested for you\Nto use a little bit
Dialogue: 0,2:28:53.69,2:28:58.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about the contradiction between\Nsort of the historic origins
Dialogue: 0,2:28:58.10,2:29:01.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the culture of this\Nsystem and the need
Dialogue: 0,2:29:01.100,2:29:05.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to bring some order\Nand regulation to it.
Dialogue: 0,2:29:05.04,2:29:07.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It seems to me there's an\Ninherent conflict that's worth
Dialogue: 0,2:29:07.67,2:29:09.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,talking about.
Dialogue: 0,2:29:09.74,2:29:10.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Start.
Dialogue: 0,2:29:10.84,2:29:11.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> I'll kick off the\Ndiscussion about that.
Dialogue: 0,2:29:11.94,2:29:15.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think sometimes when\Nyou go to a workshop
Dialogue: 0,2:29:15.75,2:29:18.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that discusses internet\Ngovernance,
Dialogue: 0,2:29:18.48,2:29:23.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it descends into a question\Nsuch as who should grab the keys
Dialogue: 0,2:29:23.69,2:29:25.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of internet governance, right?
Dialogue: 0,2:29:25.29,2:29:26.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, the question of--
Dialogue: 0,2:29:26.32,2:29:27.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so if question were asked
Dialogue: 0,2:29:27.62,2:29:30.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,such as should the United\NNations control the internet
Dialogue: 0,2:29:30.79,2:29:32.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or should the United\NStates control it
Dialogue: 0,2:29:32.83,2:29:34.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or should Google control it?
Dialogue: 0,2:29:34.06,2:29:36.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Like those kinds of\Nquestions don't make any sense
Dialogue: 0,2:29:36.17,2:29:37.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in their first instance.
Dialogue: 0,2:29:37.67,2:29:41.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And part of that is because\Nthere is no monolithic system
Dialogue: 0,2:29:41.20,2:29:42.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of internet governance.
Dialogue: 0,2:29:42.30,2:29:45.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's highly granular,\Nit's multi layered.
Dialogue: 0,2:29:45.14,2:29:47.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are-- there are\Nso many different levels
Dialogue: 0,2:29:47.58,2:29:49.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of internet governance.
Dialogue: 0,2:29:49.75,2:29:51.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, I-- my book is very long
Dialogue: 0,2:29:51.38,2:29:53.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I only get into\Nsome of them.
Dialogue: 0,2:29:53.32,2:29:56.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But the issue here is\Nmultistakeholder governance
Dialogue: 0,2:29:56.45,2:29:57.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and what that means.
Dialogue: 0,2:29:57.85,2:30:01.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, internet governance is very\Ninteresting because it is not
Dialogue: 0,2:30:01.19,2:30:03.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about governments necessarily\Nbut that doesn't mean
Dialogue: 0,2:30:03.66,2:30:05.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that there's not a\Nrole for government
Dialogue: 0,2:30:05.30,2:30:06.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in many different areas.
Dialogue: 0,2:30:06.96,2:30:09.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, if I have identity theft,\NI'd like the government
Dialogue: 0,2:30:09.60,2:30:10.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to step in and help me.
Dialogue: 0,2:30:10.60,2:30:12.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I expect antitrust enforcement.
Dialogue: 0,2:30:12.70,2:30:15.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I expect laws about--\Nsome laws about privacy.
Dialogue: 0,2:30:15.81,2:30:16.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I expect some laws
Dialogue: 0,2:30:16.97,2:30:19.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about intellectual\Nproperty rights enforcement.
Dialogue: 0,2:30:19.11,2:30:22.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I expect certain national\Nstatute on any variety
Dialogue: 0,2:30:22.08,2:30:25.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of things related to\Ntrade, child protection.
Dialogue: 0,2:30:25.52,2:30:28.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, there are many places\Nfor the government to be
Dialogue: 0,2:30:28.78,2:30:31.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in internet regulation\Nand governance.
Dialogue: 0,2:30:31.05,2:30:34.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But most functions\Nthat are related
Dialogue: 0,2:30:34.16,2:30:36.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the operational\Nstability and security
Dialogue: 0,2:30:36.66,2:30:39.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the internet have\Nnot been the purview
Dialogue: 0,2:30:39.13,2:30:40.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of traditional governments
Dialogue: 0,2:30:40.30,2:30:42.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but they have been enacted\Nby private industry.
Dialogue: 0,2:30:42.53,2:30:44.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think that that's\Na very important point.
Dialogue: 0,2:30:44.73,2:30:47.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, tying this back\Nto the PRISM issue,
Dialogue: 0,2:30:47.27,2:30:52.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,one concern that I have is\Nthat the one separate area
Dialogue: 0,2:30:52.11,2:30:54.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of how the internet is\Nbeing used in the data
Dialogue: 0,2:30:54.48,2:30:56.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that can be collected\Nand gathered will bleed
Dialogue: 0,2:30:56.71,2:30:59.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,into this other area of\Nthe operational stability
Dialogue: 0,2:30:59.35,2:31:01.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and security of the internet.
Dialogue: 0,2:31:01.08,2:31:05.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, we can expect to see\Nthis issue used as a proxy
Dialogue: 0,2:31:05.46,2:31:08.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for governments that are\Ninterested in gaining control
Dialogue: 0,2:31:08.19,2:31:10.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in certain operational\Nareas of the internet.
Dialogue: 0,2:31:10.33,2:31:12.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I guarantee that\Nthat will happen.
Dialogue: 0,2:31:12.43,2:31:14.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, we'll see that in some--
Dialogue: 0,2:31:14.53,2:31:16.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,once he calls for\Ninternational treaties.
Dialogue: 0,2:31:16.83,2:31:19.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Again, that leave\Nout private industry.
Dialogue: 0,2:31:19.24,2:31:21.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That leave out civil society.
Dialogue: 0,2:31:21.07,2:31:23.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We'll see it in additional\Ncalls for bringing
Dialogue: 0,2:31:23.87,2:31:26.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in a more multilateral control
Dialogue: 0,2:31:26.44,2:31:28.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of some critical\Ninternet resources.
Dialogue: 0,2:31:28.24,2:31:30.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, I think one bleeds\Ninto another.
Dialogue: 0,2:31:30.68,2:31:34.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But that it's really not\Nabout private industry
Dialogue: 0,2:31:34.35,2:31:37.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,versus governments\Nor civil society
Dialogue: 0,2:31:37.32,2:31:39.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,versus private industry,\Nfor example.
Dialogue: 0,2:31:39.72,2:31:42.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's about the more\Ncontextual question
Dialogue: 0,2:31:42.36,2:31:45.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of what governance is\Nnecessary for what--
Dialogue: 0,2:31:45.46,2:31:47.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which particular area.
Dialogue: 0,2:31:47.10,2:31:50.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, in certain cases, it's\Ncompletely appropriate
Dialogue: 0,2:31:50.03,2:31:52.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for only the private\Nsector to be involved.
Dialogue: 0,2:31:52.54,2:31:54.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In other cases, it's the\Npurview of government.
Dialogue: 0,2:31:54.54,2:31:57.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, it has to be asked\Nin a contextual area,
Dialogue: 0,2:31:57.84,2:32:00.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that's what multistakeholder\Ngovernance is.
Dialogue: 0,2:32:00.11,2:32:03.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's not everybody in charge\Nof every-- it's granular area.
Dialogue: 0,2:32:03.71,2:32:04.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's not it.
Dialogue: 0,2:32:04.78,2:32:06.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's about what's\Nthe appropriate form
Dialogue: 0,2:32:06.52,2:32:08.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of governance in\Na particular area.
Dialogue: 0,2:32:08.72,2:32:10.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> John?
Dialogue: 0,2:32:10.65,2:32:12.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> So the one thing\Nwe do know is
Dialogue: 0,2:32:12.42,2:32:15.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the internet\Nevolves very quickly.
Dialogue: 0,2:32:15.69,2:32:22.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I was involved 25 years of\Nit and it changes rapidly.
Dialogue: 0,2:32:22.77,2:32:28.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What was dial-up\Nmodems and just Telnet
Dialogue: 0,2:32:28.54,2:32:36.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and FTP quickly became\Ncircuits and high speed fiber.
Dialogue: 0,2:32:36.11,2:32:37.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah, OK, sorry.
Dialogue: 0,2:32:37.88,2:32:39.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Inaudible] And the web--
Dialogue: 0,2:32:39.15,2:32:41.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> My work here is done, yeah.
Dialogue: 0,2:32:41.08,2:32:47.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> The fact is that that\Nevolution doesn't work well
Dialogue: 0,2:32:47.89,2:32:49.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with government regulation.
Dialogue: 0,2:32:49.73,2:32:54.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Having been involved in\Nthe telecommunication side
Dialogue: 0,2:32:54.40,2:32:57.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the industry as opposed the\Ninternet side, I also dealt
Dialogue: 0,2:32:57.40,2:32:59.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with a lot of [inaudible]\Nregulations.
Dialogue: 0,2:32:59.10,2:33:02.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And generally, we're dealing\Nwith regulations that were three
Dialogue: 0,2:33:02.14,2:33:05.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to ten years behind the\Ntime trying to drag them
Dialogue: 0,2:33:05.81,2:33:10.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,into current circumstance,\Nand it was inevitable.
Dialogue: 0,2:33:10.61,2:33:14.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The process of regulation\Ndoesn't work well
Dialogue: 0,2:33:14.92,2:33:17.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with a forward-looking\Nrapidly evolving internet.
Dialogue: 0,2:33:17.95,2:33:22.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, when we start\Nthinking about--
Dialogue: 0,2:33:22.56,2:33:27.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about the non-governmental\Nnature of the internet,
Dialogue: 0,2:33:27.76,2:33:31.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as the internet grows up, we\Nfind ourselves in a conundrum
Dialogue: 0,2:33:31.64,2:33:35.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because the internet\Nis no longer optional.
Dialogue: 0,2:33:35.04,2:33:38.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The internet is intwined\Nin everyone's life.
Dialogue: 0,2:33:38.11,2:33:40.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Governments are looking at\Ntheir economies and going,
Dialogue: 0,2:33:40.91,2:33:44.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Some percentage of my\Neconomy is tied to this?"
Dialogue: 0,2:33:44.75,2:33:47.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can say I have a choices\Nto whether or not I'm going
Dialogue: 0,2:33:47.52,2:33:49.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to participate but I don't.
Dialogue: 0,2:33:49.49,2:33:51.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I have to be involved.
Dialogue: 0,2:33:51.66,2:33:55.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, governments are now\Nrealizing they have no choice,
Dialogue: 0,2:33:55.02,2:33:56.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they need to be involved.
Dialogue: 0,2:33:56.43,2:33:59.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They look at their duties,\Ntheir responsibilities.
Dialogue: 0,2:33:59.30,2:34:01.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And they go, "How do I\Naffect what I'm required
Dialogue: 0,2:34:01.90,2:34:03.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to do in this new media?"
Dialogue: 0,2:34:03.90,2:34:08.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's a big challenge,\Nfolks, because the protocols
Dialogue: 0,2:34:08.57,2:34:11.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the operational conventions
Dialogue: 0,2:34:11.07,2:34:13.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that hold the internet\Ntogether have to be global.
Dialogue: 0,2:34:13.64,2:34:16.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They have to interoperate\Non global basis.
Dialogue: 0,2:34:16.61,2:34:18.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But governments are\Nused to acting
Dialogue: 0,2:34:18.48,2:34:22.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on a national basis\Noccasionally regional,
Dialogue: 0,2:34:22.38,2:34:26.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,occasionally bilateral,\Nmultilateral, but generally,
Dialogue: 0,2:34:26.12,2:34:28.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they act on a national basis
Dialogue: 0,2:34:28.16,2:34:31.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you can easily break\Nthe internet by attempting
Dialogue: 0,2:34:31.90,2:34:35.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to regulate it without the\Nidea of a global context
Dialogue: 0,2:34:35.43,2:34:36.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in which it operates in.
Dialogue: 0,2:34:36.77,2:34:38.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is really what's\Nbeen opened
Dialogue: 0,2:34:38.30,2:34:39.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,up in the last five years.
Dialogue: 0,2:34:39.30,2:34:40.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In the last five years,
Dialogue: 0,2:34:40.64,2:34:42.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,governments are realizing\Nthey do need to get involved,
Dialogue: 0,2:34:42.77,2:34:44.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they don't understand\Nthe framework
Dialogue: 0,2:34:44.37,2:34:46.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by which they can do so safely.
Dialogue: 0,2:34:46.48,2:34:50.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In general, this has resulted\Nto not much regulation
Dialogue: 0,2:34:50.75,2:34:53.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but that's not necessarily going\Nto be the case going forward.
Dialogue: 0,2:34:53.65,2:34:57.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's-- the internet\Ncommunity and I say
Dialogue: 0,2:34:57.19,2:35:00.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that being the operators,\Nthe various entities
Dialogue: 0,2:35:00.26,2:35:01.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that operate pieces
Dialogue: 0,2:35:01.46,2:35:04.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the infrastructure\Naren't exactly forthcoming
Dialogue: 0,2:35:04.89,2:35:06.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to government saying, "Here,
Dialogue: 0,2:35:06.70,2:35:09.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this is how to safely\Nregulate the internet.
Dialogue: 0,2:35:09.10,2:35:11.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That guide book has\Nnot been written."
Dialogue: 0,2:35:11.33,2:35:15.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so, without a meeting\Nof the minds on this topic,
Dialogue: 0,2:35:15.00,2:35:18.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we run the risk that governments\Nare going to make regulations
Dialogue: 0,2:35:18.88,2:35:21.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that make no sense or break\Nportions of the internet.
Dialogue: 0,2:35:21.98,2:35:24.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Until this an understood\Ncommon framework
Dialogue: 0,2:35:24.08,2:35:26.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for this, we're all at risk.
Dialogue: 0,2:35:26.62,2:35:29.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Lynn, do you wanted to talk?
Dialogue: 0,2:35:29.22,2:35:32.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Yeah, very good comments\Nboth from Laura and John,
Dialogue: 0,2:35:32.19,2:35:35.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I just want to make sure\Nthat we're left with a myth here
Dialogue: 0,2:35:35.16,2:35:36.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that much of the internet\Ncommittee believes
Dialogue: 0,2:35:36.69,2:35:38.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that there's no rule\Nfor governments.
Dialogue: 0,2:35:38.53,2:35:40.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We've been engaging\Nwith governments
Dialogue: 0,2:35:40.23,2:35:43.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and certainly we could have\Ndone it better over the years.
Dialogue: 0,2:35:43.50,2:35:45.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But, you know, for many,
Dialogue: 0,2:35:45.40,2:35:48.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,many years when ISOC had a very\Nsmall staff of seven people,
Dialogue: 0,2:35:48.67,2:35:51.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I was going to [inaudible]\Nand spending weeks
Dialogue: 0,2:35:51.84,2:35:54.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because you don't go to United\NNations meeting for two days,
Dialogue: 0,2:35:54.64,2:35:56.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you'd go for two\Nand three weeks.
Dialogue: 0,2:35:56.68,2:35:58.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's a significant investment,
Dialogue: 0,2:35:58.65,2:36:00.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we went because\Nwe wanted people
Dialogue: 0,2:36:00.48,2:36:03.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to understand how the\Ninternets actually worked.
Dialogue: 0,2:36:03.79,2:36:06.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I-- it's like a slight\Ndisagreement with John
Dialogue: 0,2:36:06.32,2:36:09.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and nobody has the answer\Nbut how we regulate for a lot
Dialogue: 0,2:36:09.79,2:36:11.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of this new environments.
Dialogue: 0,2:36:11.33,2:36:13.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's not because we think\Nthere should be no regulations
Dialogue: 0,2:36:13.80,2:36:15.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because we can't\Nfigure out what sort
Dialogue: 0,2:36:15.46,2:36:17.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of regulation there should be.
Dialogue: 0,2:36:17.37,2:36:20.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And to John's other point,\Nit is because of the pace
Dialogue: 0,2:36:20.40,2:36:22.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with which the internet changes.
Dialogue: 0,2:36:22.47,2:36:23.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it is to the fact\Nthat it has broken
Dialogue: 0,2:36:23.91,2:36:25.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so many global boundaries.
Dialogue: 0,2:36:25.11,2:36:28.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can do it within\Nany single context.
Dialogue: 0,2:36:28.21,2:36:30.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, it is a very,\Nvery complex world.
Dialogue: 0,2:36:30.08,2:36:34.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we continue to advocate for\Ndialogue discussion, thoughtful,
Dialogue: 0,2:36:34.98,2:36:36.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,let it take the time it needs.
Dialogue: 0,2:36:36.62,2:36:40.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We need to pull apart lots\Nof different complexities
Dialogue: 0,2:36:40.12,2:36:42.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and let the right thing emerge.
Dialogue: 0,2:36:42.02,2:36:43.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is not the same\Nas saying no rule
Dialogue: 0,2:36:43.86,2:36:46.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for governments but\Nit often gets--
Dialogue: 0,2:36:46.73,2:36:49.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> And another dimension of\Nthis is not all governments are
Dialogue: 0,2:36:49.67,2:36:51.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the same.
Dialogue: 0,2:36:51.03,2:36:56.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because you can talk about China\Nbeing a pretty malign force
Dialogue: 0,2:36:56.71,2:37:00.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in terms of internet freedom\Nto say nothing of Iran
Dialogue: 0,2:37:00.04,2:37:03.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which uses the internet to roll\Nup all networks of descent,
Dialogue: 0,2:37:03.98,2:37:05.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where in Tahrir Square,
Dialogue: 0,2:37:05.88,2:37:09.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the internet is a\Nmechanism for expression.
Dialogue: 0,2:37:09.89,2:37:12.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, part of it, you can--
Dialogue: 0,2:37:12.69,2:37:15.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,part of the problem\Nis government even
Dialogue: 0,2:37:15.02,2:37:17.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as a concept is subject to\Nmany different definitions.
Dialogue: 0,2:37:17.83,2:37:19.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah.
Dialogue: 0,2:37:19.03,2:37:20.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> It is Steve but that's\Nprobably why the western
Dialogue: 0,2:37:20.76,2:37:26.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,governments that operate\Nin democracies with legal
Dialogue: 0,2:37:26.30,2:37:28.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and constitutional frameworks
Dialogue: 0,2:37:28.54,2:37:31.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that it's particularly\Nimportant.
Dialogue: 0,2:37:31.34,2:37:34.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And one of the reasons people\Nare particularly unhappy
Dialogue: 0,2:37:34.21,2:37:37.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about this particular\Nsurveillance is if we're trying
Dialogue: 0,2:37:37.15,2:37:39.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to come up with this\Nnuanced role
Dialogue: 0,2:37:39.48,2:37:41.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about where government belongs,
Dialogue: 0,2:37:41.62,2:37:43.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we haven't exactly\Nsent the right message
Dialogue: 0,2:37:43.99,2:37:45.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the rest of the world.
Dialogue: 0,2:37:45.19,2:37:47.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think that's part\Nof the problem here.
Dialogue: 0,2:37:47.42,2:37:50.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> I just want to offer a\Nkind of a friendly amendment,
Dialogue: 0,2:37:50.39,2:37:52.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I hope to John's view, you know.
Dialogue: 0,2:37:52.66,2:37:56.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think John correctly\Npoints out that attempting
Dialogue: 0,2:37:56.63,2:37:59.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to regulate the internet\Ninfrastructure whether it's the
Dialogue: 0,2:37:59.84,2:38:02.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,institutions that\Noperate and design it
Dialogue: 0,2:38:02.10,2:38:06.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or the actual operators\Nis very [inaudible]
Dialogue: 0,2:38:06.04,2:38:08.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because it changes\Nvery quickly and it has
Dialogue: 0,2:38:08.48,2:38:09.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to work on a global basis.
Dialogue: 0,2:38:09.75,2:38:11.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That was the experience of the--
Dialogue: 0,2:38:11.92,2:38:14.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of SOPA, the Stop\NOnline Privacy Act,
Dialogue: 0,2:38:14.55,2:38:18.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was that policymakers\Nthought they could reach in--
Dialogue: 0,2:38:18.72,2:38:19.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Piracy.
Dialogue: 0,2:38:19.42,2:38:21.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> -- sorry, Piracy Act.
Dialogue: 0,2:38:21.06,2:38:22.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> [Inaudible] is the stop--
Dialogue: 0,2:38:22.56,2:38:23.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> That's right.
Dialogue: 0,2:38:23.99,2:38:27.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Dialogue: 0,2:38:27.43,2:38:29.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Right, you know, governments\Nthought they could reach
Dialogue: 0,2:38:29.100,2:38:32.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in to the internet\Ninfrastructure
Dialogue: 0,2:38:32.60,2:38:34.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to solve a problem\Nthat is really
Dialogue: 0,2:38:34.30,2:38:37.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about human behavior\Nand violating laws.
Dialogue: 0,2:38:37.47,2:38:40.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,However, at the same time\Nthere are plenty of legal rules
Dialogue: 0,2:38:40.84,2:38:44.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that actually work incredibly\Nwell on the internet.
Dialogue: 0,2:38:44.88,2:38:48.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, the FTC is still using\Nthe Fair Credit Reporting Act
Dialogue: 0,2:38:48.12,2:38:51.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from 1970 which was one\Nof our first piracy laws
Dialogue: 0,2:38:51.05,2:38:54.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in United States to stop very\Nadvanced sophisticated online
Dialogue: 0,2:38:54.69,2:38:56.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,services from harming people.
Dialogue: 0,2:38:56.29,2:38:58.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's not causing\NJohn any problems.
Dialogue: 0,2:38:58.39,2:39:01.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He's not-- he [inaudible]\Neven think about it.
Dialogue: 0,2:39:01.03,2:39:08.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so I think there's-- I think\Nthat it's when governments try
Dialogue: 0,2:39:08.34,2:39:10.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to do this sort of\Nshortcuts that they were used
Dialogue: 0,2:39:10.17,2:39:12.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to doing is you were suggesting\Nwith the broadcasters, you know,
Dialogue: 0,2:39:12.64,2:39:14.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,say, "You guys have to behave\Nthis way in order for us
Dialogue: 0,2:39:14.98,2:39:16.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to achieve a broader\Npolicy goal."
Dialogue: 0,2:39:16.81,2:39:18.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's where we really\Nhave problems
Dialogue: 0,2:39:18.85,2:39:20.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the internet environment.
Dialogue: 0,2:39:20.58,2:39:25.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> You know, number of you have\Nused the word privacy as a value
Dialogue: 0,2:39:25.82,2:39:29.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and as a very curious\N[phonetic] value.
Dialogue: 0,2:39:29.29,2:39:32.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I want you to\Nplay with the idea
Dialogue: 0,2:39:32.20,2:39:34.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that perhaps we're\Nactually really ambivalent
Dialogue: 0,2:39:34.30,2:39:37.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about the question of privacy\Nbecause in fact in many ways,
Dialogue: 0,2:39:37.77,2:39:43.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the wide availability of data is\Nactually an enormous convenient.
Dialogue: 0,2:39:43.94,2:39:46.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Every time you go to\Na website and you put
Dialogue: 0,2:39:46.84,2:39:49.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in your e-mail address\Nand up comes your password
Dialogue: 0,2:39:49.78,2:39:52.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and all your credit\Ncard information
Dialogue: 0,2:39:52.05,2:39:54.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and at one stop shopping\Nat Amazon, right?
Dialogue: 0,2:39:54.98,2:39:58.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We all love it but isn't that--
Dialogue: 0,2:39:58.82,2:40:01.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> But we've made a decision\Nto share that with them, so.
Dialogue: 0,2:40:01.02,2:40:01.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Well--
Dialogue: 0,2:40:01.72,2:40:02.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Wait just a minute.
Dialogue: 0,2:40:02.79,2:40:04.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I want a-- I want a--\NI understand that.
Dialogue: 0,2:40:04.86,2:40:08.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I want to pose a question\Nabout whether at some point,
Dialogue: 0,2:40:08.80,2:40:11.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,aren't we really ambivalent\Nabout this question
Dialogue: 0,2:40:11.53,2:40:17.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we actually like people\Nto have information about us
Dialogue: 0,2:40:17.17,2:40:20.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when it serves our purposes of\Nconvenience and accessibility.
Dialogue: 0,2:40:20.61,2:40:22.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that there was a certain--
Dialogue: 0,2:40:22.94,2:40:25.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I understand your\Npoint about voluntary.
Dialogue: 0,2:40:25.21,2:40:27.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But this will mark [phonetic]\Na point here as well.
Dialogue: 0,2:40:27.65,2:40:29.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> I think part of\Nthe problem is--
Dialogue: 0,2:40:29.75,2:40:32.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is the public is\Nrealizing that the people
Dialogue: 0,2:40:32.09,2:40:34.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that are storing the\Ninformation that we give
Dialogue: 0,2:40:34.36,2:40:37.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to them aren't doing a good\Na job in protecting it.
Dialogue: 0,2:40:37.83,2:40:39.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I could go to my local bank--\NI grew up in Falls Church.
Dialogue: 0,2:40:39.96,2:40:42.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I used to go to the local\NFirst Virginia Bank right there
Dialogue: 0,2:40:42.10,2:40:43.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in Falls Church.
Dialogue: 0,2:40:43.23,2:40:45.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I gave them all my\Ninformation when I opened
Dialogue: 0,2:40:45.07,2:40:47.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,up my first account\Nwhen I was a teenager.
Dialogue: 0,2:40:47.17,2:40:49.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I had a reasonable\Nexpectation
Dialogue: 0,2:40:49.54,2:40:51.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the only way they\Nwere going to get that--
Dialogue: 0,2:40:51.11,2:40:53.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,anybody else is going to\Nget that information was
Dialogue: 0,2:40:53.41,2:40:56.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if they actually went in and\Nrob the bank and stole the file,
Dialogue: 0,2:40:56.71,2:40:59.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you know, the file\Ncabinet or whatever.
Dialogue: 0,2:40:59.05,2:41:00.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Or if anyone in the\Ngovernment wanted it?
Dialogue: 0,2:41:00.72,2:41:02.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Or if anyone in the\Ngovernment want it?
Dialogue: 0,2:41:02.32,2:41:04.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean that-- I mean\Nthat, you know, that--
Dialogue: 0,2:41:04.75,2:41:05.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's a reasonable thing.
Dialogue: 0,2:41:05.59,2:41:07.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But nowadays when we find
Dialogue: 0,2:41:07.06,2:41:09.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,out that you have all these\Nmassive data leaks, you know,
Dialogue: 0,2:41:09.99,2:41:13.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and when you examine\Nthe root cause of what--
Dialogue: 0,2:41:13.10,2:41:15.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what the leak was from\Na tactical standpoint,
Dialogue: 0,2:41:15.56,2:41:17.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I should have been\Nfixed 15 years ago.
Dialogue: 0,2:41:17.90,2:41:22.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, some of these attacks,\NI do a talk now if they ask me,
Dialogue: 0,2:41:22.24,2:41:24.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you know, I guess it's because\NI had gray hair and I've been
Dialogue: 0,2:41:24.74,2:41:26.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the security business\Nfor 20 years.
Dialogue: 0,2:41:26.94,2:41:29.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think I noticed something
Dialogue: 0,2:41:29.01,2:41:32.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I do [inaudible]\Nthat the contract--
Dialogue: 0,2:41:32.65,2:41:33.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> It's because of the ponytail.
Dialogue: 0,2:41:33.75,2:41:35.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> I think it is.
Dialogue: 0,2:41:35.15,2:41:37.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, it's the-- it's the\Nsame attack methods that we saw
Dialogue: 0,2:41:37.09,2:41:41.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the early '90s are\Nstill effective in 2013.
Dialogue: 0,2:41:41.16,2:41:44.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so my question to the\Ntechnical community was,
Dialogue: 0,2:41:44.49,2:41:47.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what have we been doing\Nthis last 20 years?
Dialogue: 0,2:41:47.76,2:41:53.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, you know, I in the SANS\NInstitute that I was a part of,
Dialogue: 0,2:41:53.04,2:41:56.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we drew up a top\Nten threats in 2001.
Dialogue: 0,2:41:56.67,2:42:00.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I pulled it out and today\Nin 2013, every single one
Dialogue: 0,2:42:00.81,2:42:05.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of those top ten threats from\N2001 is still affecting today.
Dialogue: 0,2:42:05.18,2:42:07.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, what have we been\Ndoing to protect ourselves?
Dialogue: 0,2:42:07.85,2:42:09.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think it's that type
Dialogue: 0,2:42:09.22,2:42:13.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of thing that's causing this\Nrumble about, you know, well,
Dialogue: 0,2:42:13.32,2:42:15.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,private industry isn't\Ndoing anything about it,
Dialogue: 0,2:42:15.49,2:42:17.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,individuals aren't\Ndoing anything about it.
Dialogue: 0,2:42:17.49,2:42:19.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, that only leaves\Na government
Dialogue: 0,2:42:19.63,2:42:22.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to do something about\Nit, you know.
Dialogue: 0,2:42:22.33,2:42:25.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so I think that's why\Nwe're seeing that pushing
Dialogue: 0,2:42:25.30,2:42:27.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that direction, 'cause\Nhistorically when you look
Dialogue: 0,2:42:27.67,2:42:30.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at it, the same things\Nare still affecting us,
Dialogue: 0,2:42:30.84,2:42:33.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's just that what's\Nhappening now is back in 2001,
Dialogue: 0,2:42:33.34,2:42:37.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the scope of a data breach\Nwas much less than the scope
Dialogue: 0,2:42:37.01,2:42:38.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the data breach now.
Dialogue: 0,2:42:38.01,2:42:39.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Sure, sure.
Dialogue: 0,2:42:39.05,2:42:40.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> And just one last\Naside [phonetic].
Dialogue: 0,2:42:40.02,2:42:41.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The iPhone, I think,\NI looked it up,
Dialogue: 0,2:42:41.05,2:42:43.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is five years old\Ntoday-- this year.
Dialogue: 0,2:42:43.59,2:42:47.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, to answer your question\Nabout why the difference from--
Dialogue: 0,2:42:47.69,2:42:49.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Hold on just a second.
Dialogue: 0,2:42:49.09,2:42:50.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,John and Leslie, you want a-- is\Nthere a point you wanted to make
Dialogue: 0,2:42:50.49,2:42:52.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about the voluntary\Nsubmission of data.
Dialogue: 0,2:42:52.96,2:42:54.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> I don't think so.
Dialogue: 0,2:42:54.70,2:42:58.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think every point has been\Nmade by everybody quite well.
Dialogue: 0,2:42:58.23,2:42:59.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> OK. John?
Dialogue: 0,2:42:59.67,2:43:03.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> You thought-- say that maybe\Npeople don't value privacy
Dialogue: 0,2:43:03.31,2:43:06.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,over convenience, and that\Nthat we give up privacy
Dialogue: 0,2:43:06.81,2:43:10.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and there's no outrage\Nabout that.
Dialogue: 0,2:43:10.15,2:43:12.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Why is there an outrage\Nin some cases?
Dialogue: 0,2:43:12.82,2:43:15.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I guess the question\Nthat comes up is,
Dialogue: 0,2:43:15.12,2:43:18.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a lot of people voluntarily\Ngive up privacy
Dialogue: 0,2:43:18.12,2:43:19.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because we want the convenience.
Dialogue: 0,2:43:19.76,2:43:22.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We want to click the button\Nand get the order done.
Dialogue: 0,2:43:22.09,2:43:24.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We want the website\Nto know who we are.
Dialogue: 0,2:43:24.29,2:43:26.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We want to fill out\Nall the information
Dialogue: 0,2:43:26.20,2:43:30.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the airline profile because\Nit just makes traveling a little
Dialogue: 0,2:43:30.23,2:43:31.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,easier and anything\Nthat makes it easier--
Dialogue: 0,2:43:31.87,2:43:34.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> And who can not remember all\Nthose damn passwords anyway,
Dialogue: 0,2:43:34.30,2:43:35.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,right?
Dialogue: 0,2:43:35.27,2:43:36.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> So there are times\Nwe do that.
Dialogue: 0,2:43:36.81,2:43:40.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But the reality is that there's\Nalso times when you consent
Dialogue: 0,2:43:40.11,2:43:43.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to losing your privacy\Nin situations that aren't
Dialogue: 0,2:43:43.85,2:43:46.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for your convenience but\Nyou're going to anyway.
Dialogue: 0,2:43:46.58,2:43:47.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Next time you're\Ngoing to your doctor,
Dialogue: 0,2:43:47.95,2:43:51.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,pick up that HIPAA form\Nand look at it, OK?
Dialogue: 0,2:43:51.15,2:43:53.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It says, "We're going to\Nshare your data with the CDC
Dialogue: 0,2:43:53.89,2:43:55.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because if there's an\Noutbreak of something,
Dialogue: 0,2:43:55.92,2:43:57.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we're going to do that, OK?"
Dialogue: 0,2:43:57.69,2:44:00.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's not for my convenience,\Nhopefully, I'm not relevant,
Dialogue: 0,2:44:00.10,2:44:02.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but the fact is they're\Ngoing to do what--
Dialogue: 0,2:44:02.60,2:44:06.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we consent with because\Nwell, we knew about it.
Dialogue: 0,2:44:06.14,2:44:07.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We understand--
Dialogue: 0,2:44:07.37,2:44:08.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> And there's a public\Ninterest involved because--
Dialogue: 0,2:44:08.77,2:44:12.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> There's a public\Ninterest but also as annoying
Dialogue: 0,2:44:12.28,2:44:15.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as that form is, they\Ntook the time to tell us.
Dialogue: 0,2:44:15.18,2:44:17.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I do think that's a\Ndifferent question
Dialogue: 0,2:44:17.48,2:44:19.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when there's surveillance\Nis going on
Dialogue: 0,2:44:19.18,2:44:20.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you don't know\Nabout it at all.
Dialogue: 0,2:44:20.92,2:44:25.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think that might be the\Nangst behind a lot of this.
Dialogue: 0,2:44:25.02,2:44:26.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Leslie?
Dialogue: 0,2:44:26.16,2:44:27.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Well, I also think\Nthat there's difference
Dialogue: 0,2:44:27.46,2:44:30.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,between surveillance\Nby the government
Dialogue: 0,2:44:30.39,2:44:33.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and surveillance by companies.
Dialogue: 0,2:44:33.73,2:44:35.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean I think they've\Nbecome more joined together
Dialogue: 0,2:44:35.90,2:44:39.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because they are now the\Nsource of all the information
Dialogue: 0,2:44:39.10,2:44:40.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the government\Nis collecting.
Dialogue: 0,2:44:40.40,2:44:43.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I think at least in\Nthe constitutional system,
Dialogue: 0,2:44:43.44,2:44:46.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not in Europe where they're\Nmaking a distinction.
Dialogue: 0,2:44:46.04,2:44:51.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Having that government who has\Nthe capacity to impose penalties
Dialogue: 0,2:44:51.85,2:44:59.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on people and make choices about\Nwho is going to be prosecuted,
Dialogue: 0,2:44:59.16,2:45:03.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,et cetera, is entirely different\Nmatter than whether I like
Dialogue: 0,2:45:03.86,2:45:05.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or disliked it, you know,
Dialogue: 0,2:45:05.43,2:45:08.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Google Profiles keep\Nsending me the same crib
Dialogue: 0,2:45:08.73,2:45:11.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for my pregnant daughter\Nover and over again.
Dialogue: 0,2:45:11.60,2:45:14.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm annoyed, I'm\Nextremely annoyed.
Dialogue: 0,2:45:14.40,2:45:15.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I also think--
Dialogue: 0,2:45:15.64,2:45:17.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> They knew she was\Npregnant before she did, yes?
Dialogue: 0,2:45:17.04,2:45:18.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Yes.
Dialogue: 0,2:45:18.11,2:45:19.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Well, they probably\Ndid, but they knew
Dialogue: 0,2:45:19.31,2:45:21.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that I did this thing once\Nand it's following the--
Dialogue: 0,2:45:21.28,2:45:23.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's literally following\Nme around the world.
Dialogue: 0,2:45:23.51,2:45:24.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean it's became\Nkind of a joke.
Dialogue: 0,2:45:24.95,2:45:28.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I find that annoying and\NI'm somebody who knows how
Dialogue: 0,2:45:28.25,2:45:29.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to set my privacy settings.
Dialogue: 0,2:45:29.82,2:45:33.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, you know, in one-- in\None circumstance it's a loss
Dialogue: 0,2:45:33.89,2:45:37.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of some measure of control,\Nwe ought to have more control,
Dialogue: 0,2:45:37.39,2:45:39.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's one of the reasons we\Nought to have a baseline build
Dialogue: 0,2:45:39.76,2:45:42.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to give us some fair\Ninformation practices.
Dialogue: 0,2:45:42.50,2:45:46.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In the other, you know, the\Ngovernment has the capacity
Dialogue: 0,2:45:46.87,2:45:49.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to make very important\Ndecisions about us.
Dialogue: 0,2:45:49.27,2:45:53.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we have a constitution that\Nsays they have to follow rules.
Dialogue: 0,2:45:53.31,2:45:59.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so we do react differently\Nto the crib and to the NSA.
Dialogue: 0,2:45:59.55,2:46:00.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Yeah.
Dialogue: 0,2:46:00.68,2:46:04.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> The one thing I would\Nsay about our tension
Dialogue: 0,2:46:04.99,2:46:09.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,between convenience and\Nprivacy is-- I just think that--
Dialogue: 0,2:46:09.36,2:46:14.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think privacy has always been\Na kind of a contested concept.
Dialogue: 0,2:46:14.30,2:46:15.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, it's not an absolute.
Dialogue: 0,2:46:15.86,2:46:18.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't think there's\Nanyone hardly in the world
Dialogue: 0,2:46:18.30,2:46:21.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who thinks it's-- it's\Nan absolute condition.
Dialogue: 0,2:46:21.67,2:46:23.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But we know, as Leslie\Nis saying,
Dialogue: 0,2:46:23.57,2:46:26.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we have different\Nprivacy expectations.
Dialogue: 0,2:46:26.71,2:46:30.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We want different privacy\Nresults at different times.
Dialogue: 0,2:46:30.35,2:46:34.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And some of the-- some\Nof the privacy promise
Dialogue: 0,2:46:34.02,2:46:35.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we have [inaudible]
Dialogue: 0,2:46:35.48,2:46:38.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like seeing the same\Ncrib too many times.
Dialogue: 0,2:46:38.45,2:46:40.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Others have real consequence
Dialogue: 0,2:46:40.92,2:46:42.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like if you're credit\Nreport is wrong
Dialogue: 0,2:46:42.29,2:46:44.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you can't get a mortgage,\Nyou're really, you know,
Dialogue: 0,2:46:44.29,2:46:46.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it really-- or you don't\Nget a job, you know,
Dialogue: 0,2:46:46.53,2:46:47.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it really makes a difference.
Dialogue: 0,2:46:47.73,2:46:52.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think that-- I think\Nin a way the phrase--
Dialogue: 0,2:46:52.70,2:46:54.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think categorizing privacy
Dialogue: 0,2:46:54.70,2:46:58.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as a single right is what\Nmakes the conversation a little
Dialogue: 0,2:46:58.01,2:47:00.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,confused because it-- the\Nreality is it's a number
Dialogue: 0,2:47:00.48,2:47:02.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of concerns wrapped up into one.
Dialogue: 0,2:47:02.84,2:47:06.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> But in this day and age,\Nisn't it a little naive to say,
Dialogue: 0,2:47:06.88,2:47:08.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm going to give my\Ninformation to Amazon?
Dialogue: 0,2:47:08.98,2:47:11.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Or I'm going to give my\Ninformation to Google
Dialogue: 0,2:47:11.09,2:47:14.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for my own purposes because I\Nchoose to, and somehow I'm going
Dialogue: 0,2:47:14.82,2:47:16.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to be able to control--
Dialogue: 0,2:47:16.96,2:47:17.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Oh, yes.
Dialogue: 0,2:47:17.99,2:47:19.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> -- all the use\Nof that information.
Dialogue: 0,2:47:19.83,2:47:21.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Yeah, that's not--\Nthat's not doable,
Dialogue: 0,2:47:21.63,2:47:24.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I don't think any\Nprivacy law we would pass
Dialogue: 0,2:47:24.03,2:47:27.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in this country would\Nchange that.
Dialogue: 0,2:47:27.80,2:47:29.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> It is naive but I think--
Dialogue: 0,2:47:29.24,2:47:33.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think the problem is I don't\Nmind giving you any information
Dialogue: 0,2:47:33.54,2:47:37.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you ask about me if you tell me\Nahead of time what you're going
Dialogue: 0,2:47:37.18,2:47:38.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to do with that information.
Dialogue: 0,2:47:38.38,2:47:40.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, what John was talking\Nabout in the HIPAA thing
Dialogue: 0,2:47:40.82,2:47:43.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when they say, "We're going\Nto give it out to the CDC,"
Dialogue: 0,2:47:43.85,2:47:46.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you tell me ahead of\Ntime before I give you
Dialogue: 0,2:47:46.66,2:47:48.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that information, that's much--
Dialogue: 0,2:47:48.72,2:47:51.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's a much different\Nenvironment than giving it here
Dialogue: 0,2:47:51.93,2:47:54.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then buried in [inaudible]\Nfine print is a little click
Dialogue: 0,2:47:54.56,2:47:55.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,thing that says,\N"Oh, by the way,
Dialogue: 0,2:47:55.76,2:47:57.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we're going to just give\Nthis to anybody we want."
Dialogue: 0,2:47:57.50,2:47:59.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> We only have few\Nminutes, and I want to--
Dialogue: 0,2:47:59.24,2:48:02.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you've mentioned out, a number\Nof you, the fact that we're--
Dialogue: 0,2:48:02.77,2:48:06.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we're dealing with a very\Ncomplex system as Laura said
Dialogue: 0,2:48:06.31,2:48:08.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with a lot of stakeholders here.
Dialogue: 0,2:48:08.31,2:48:13.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And one of the stakeholders are\Nthese providers whether it's
Dialogue: 0,2:48:13.02,2:48:18.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Google, whether it's Yahoo,\Nwho take that information.
Dialogue: 0,2:48:18.22,2:48:20.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They don't warn you in some\Nways that they're going
Dialogue: 0,2:48:20.39,2:48:23.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to give it away because they're\Nnot voluntarily giving it away.
Dialogue: 0,2:48:23.26,2:48:24.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They're being subpoenaed,
Dialogue: 0,2:48:24.39,2:48:26.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they're being ordered\Nto by the government.
Dialogue: 0,2:48:26.30,2:48:27.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And they are caught.
Dialogue: 0,2:48:27.30,2:48:29.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have-- this institution,
Dialogue: 0,2:48:29.76,2:48:33.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,these huge institutions\Nare private institutions,
Dialogue: 0,2:48:33.54,2:48:34.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but as we've learned\Nthrough PRISM
Dialogue: 0,2:48:34.97,2:48:39.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and all the revelation\Nsubject to government orders
Dialogue: 0,2:48:39.91,2:48:42.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and government warrants.
Dialogue: 0,2:48:42.24,2:48:45.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And many of them are fighting\Nthis at least fighting
Dialogue: 0,2:48:45.81,2:48:49.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to be able to be more\Ntransparent because they have--
Dialogue: 0,2:48:49.55,2:48:51.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they're stakeholders, too.
Dialogue: 0,2:48:51.62,2:48:54.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And-- and they are worried\Nthat their brands are going
Dialogue: 0,2:48:54.52,2:48:57.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to be tarnished by\Nbeing swept up in this.
Dialogue: 0,2:48:57.06,2:48:59.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And to talk a little bit\Nabout the special role
Dialogue: 0,2:48:59.56,2:49:02.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of this institution, these\Nintermediary institutions,
Dialogue: 0,2:49:02.10,2:49:04.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the Apples, the Microsofts,\Nthe Googles who are
Dialogue: 0,2:49:04.87,2:49:06.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on one hand are getting\Npulled by the government
Dialogue: 0,2:49:06.87,2:49:08.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to release information.
Dialogue: 0,2:49:08.27,2:49:10.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,On the other hand, they're being\Npressured to keep it private.
Dialogue: 0,2:49:10.94,2:49:12.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Yeah.
Dialogue: 0,2:49:12.04,2:49:14.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Yeah, that's a really\Nimportant question.
Dialogue: 0,2:49:14.88,2:49:18.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And if you look at-- Let me\Njust back it up to before PRISM.
Dialogue: 0,2:49:18.78,2:49:21.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you look at even just the\NGoogle transparency reports
Dialogue: 0,2:49:21.95,2:49:24.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which probably don't have\Neverything and I think
Dialogue: 0,2:49:24.35,2:49:27.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and even Google says that\Nnational security isn't--
Dialogue: 0,2:49:27.72,2:49:30.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not everything is reflected\Nin the transparency reports.
Dialogue: 0,2:49:30.46,2:49:32.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But when you do look\Nat something like that,
Dialogue: 0,2:49:32.43,2:49:34.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you can see that there\Nis a very big disconnect
Dialogue: 0,2:49:34.43,2:49:36.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,between what governments\Nare asking information
Dialogue: 0,2:49:36.97,2:49:40.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,intermediaries to do and\Nwhat they actually do.
Dialogue: 0,2:49:40.10,2:49:43.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, you can see that--\Njust to give an example.
Dialogue: 0,2:49:43.71,2:49:49.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Maybe they disclosed data about\Nan individual in 37 percent,
Dialogue: 0,2:49:49.41,2:49:53.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,37 percent of the time in--\Nto the Brazilian government
Dialogue: 0,2:49:53.82,2:49:56.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or 47 percent of the time\Nto another government.
Dialogue: 0,2:49:56.68,2:49:58.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Do you see what I'm saying?
Dialogue: 0,2:49:58.09,2:50:01.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is a disconnect in that\Ndifferential between the request
Dialogue: 0,2:50:01.22,2:50:04.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to turn over user data\Nand the actual instances
Dialogue: 0,2:50:04.26,2:50:05.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of turning over the data.
Dialogue: 0,2:50:05.49,2:50:09.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's where they have this\Nspecial governance role.
Dialogue: 0,2:50:09.06,2:50:10.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's an important\Npoint the make.
Dialogue: 0,2:50:10.93,2:50:15.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But they also bear a burden\Nin carrying out a request
Dialogue: 0,2:50:15.94,2:50:18.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,such as the more\Nrecent revelations
Dialogue: 0,2:50:18.21,2:50:20.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because there is a\Npublic relations hit.
Dialogue: 0,2:50:20.84,2:50:25.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is the cost of hiring\Nnumerous attorneys to deal
Dialogue: 0,2:50:25.65,2:50:27.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the fallout from this.
Dialogue: 0,2:50:27.32,2:50:29.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there's the possible\Neconomic impact
Dialogue: 0,2:50:29.48,2:50:32.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of having trouble doing business\Nin other parts of the world
Dialogue: 0,2:50:32.76,2:50:35.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that might be suspicious\Ntowards those companies.
Dialogue: 0,2:50:35.92,2:50:39.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Yeah, you might be thanking--\Nthey might be thanking Snowden
Dialogue: 0,2:50:39.19,2:50:41.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for the revelations\Nbecause and, of course,
Dialogue: 0,2:50:41.56,2:50:44.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by the national security\Nletters.
Dialogue: 0,2:50:44.60,2:50:45.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They're not allowed to--
Dialogue: 0,2:50:45.73,2:50:48.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to let anyone know that\Nthey collected the data.
Dialogue: 0,2:50:48.30,2:50:49.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, now on the other\Nhand, you have the--
Dialogue: 0,2:50:49.80,2:50:51.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the Snowden revelations\Nwhich were saying, "Hey,
Dialogue: 0,2:50:51.71,2:50:53.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,these guys had to\Ngive out the data".
Dialogue: 0,2:50:53.98,2:50:56.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, you know, and\Nnow that's come out.
Dialogue: 0,2:50:56.81,2:50:58.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What they should have\Nsaid is instead of trying
Dialogue: 0,2:50:58.58,2:50:59.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to back [inaudible]\Nbeen saying, "You know,
Dialogue: 0,2:50:59.65,2:51:01.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,trying to save their\Nreputation."
Dialogue: 0,2:51:01.72,2:51:03.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We said, "Look, you\Ngot subpoenaed,
Dialogue: 0,2:51:03.02,2:51:04.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we know you got subpoenaed,
Dialogue: 0,2:51:04.09,2:51:07.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you gave up the data\Nbecause it's a law."
Dialogue: 0,2:51:07.09,2:51:11.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I think that that\Npiece of it is the secrecy,
Dialogue: 0,2:51:11.76,2:51:15.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not being able to say why\Nsomething was collected,
Dialogue: 0,2:51:15.96,2:51:18.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you know, and not being able\Nto even say anything about it.
Dialogue: 0,2:51:18.57,2:51:19.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Lesley?
Dialogue: 0,2:51:19.84,2:51:23.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Well, the question raised\Nis this bigger question
Dialogue: 0,2:51:23.71,2:51:27.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when we talk about players\Nin the internet echo system.
Dialogue: 0,2:51:27.58,2:51:31.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The intermediaries\Nare a critical part.
Dialogue: 0,2:51:31.41,2:51:35.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we have-- under our law, we\Nsort of provide them with a lot
Dialogue: 0,2:51:35.58,2:51:39.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of special protections\Nbecause they can't be liable
Dialogue: 0,2:51:39.46,2:51:42.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for everything that's going\Non in their platforms.
Dialogue: 0,2:51:42.52,2:51:44.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And yet there under\Nenormous pressure,
Dialogue: 0,2:51:44.53,2:51:50.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this national security\Nrevelation is one small piece
Dialogue: 0,2:51:50.26,2:51:53.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of this very complex\Nenvironment where when you ask
Dialogue: 0,2:51:53.50,2:51:57.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about governments and government\Nis trying to regulate,
Dialogue: 0,2:51:57.34,2:52:01.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the first place that governments\Ngo in trying to solve anything,
Dialogue: 0,2:52:01.94,2:52:05.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a social problem is to\Ntry to figure out how
Dialogue: 0,2:52:05.01,2:52:08.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to get the intermediaries to\Ntake on that responsibility.
Dialogue: 0,2:52:08.28,2:52:11.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, this has been sort of\Na tension that's existed
Dialogue: 0,2:52:11.62,2:52:15.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,since we actually had any\Nkind of powerful intermediary.
Dialogue: 0,2:52:15.86,2:52:18.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, that's one side, and the\Nother side is the amounts
Dialogue: 0,2:52:18.53,2:52:21.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of power they have as\Na governance entity
Dialogue: 0,2:52:21.16,2:52:22.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to set the rules of\N[inaudible] for the internet.
Dialogue: 0,2:52:22.83,2:52:24.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so--
Dialogue: 0,2:52:24.03,2:52:25.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> And one of the\Ninteresting variables here is,
Dialogue: 0,2:52:25.80,2:52:28.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I noticed just recently that\Nseveral of the big players,
Dialogue: 0,2:52:28.74,2:52:30.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Microsoft, Google, Yahoo,
Dialogue: 0,2:52:30.94,2:52:33.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think three have\Nall filed suit--
Dialogue: 0,2:52:33.58,2:52:34.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Right.
Dialogue: 0,2:52:34.88,2:52:38.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> -- in an attempt to be\Nable to be more transparent
Dialogue: 0,2:52:38.08,2:52:40.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about the role and the-- and\Nthe requirements they're under.
Dialogue: 0,2:52:40.88,2:52:43.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think in part because of\Nthe point Laura was raising
Dialogue: 0,2:52:43.18,2:52:46.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that they themselves, given the\Nculture that they're part of
Dialogue: 0,2:52:46.96,2:52:48.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the stakeholders they have,
Dialogue: 0,2:52:48.86,2:52:52.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they are taking a big public\Nrelations in branding hit
Dialogue: 0,2:52:52.06,2:52:53.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for this kind of cooperation.
Dialogue: 0,2:52:53.16,2:52:55.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> And they also have\Nreal leverage here
Dialogue: 0,2:52:55.06,2:52:58.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which they have exercised\Non occasion, you know.
Dialogue: 0,2:52:58.60,2:53:02.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Many of the big intermediaries\NGoogle, Twitter,
Dialogue: 0,2:53:02.84,2:53:06.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,others have at times gone to\Ncourt to challenge subpoenas
Dialogue: 0,2:53:06.98,2:53:09.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and other kinds of court\Norders they receive saying
Dialogue: 0,2:53:09.14,2:53:10.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that they're too broad.
Dialogue: 0,2:53:10.34,2:53:11.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, Google had been--
Dialogue: 0,2:53:11.78,2:53:15.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,had been under order to\Nturnover large volumes
Dialogue: 0,2:53:15.62,2:53:17.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of search log data, this\Nwas just a criminal case,
Dialogue: 0,2:53:17.69,2:53:18.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's not [inaudible] cases.
Dialogue: 0,2:53:18.29,2:53:19.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Right.
Dialogue: 0,2:53:19.56,2:53:20.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> And they've challenged\Nthose and they, you know,
Dialogue: 0,2:53:20.92,2:53:24.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so the intermediaries have\Na really important role
Dialogue: 0,2:53:24.13,2:53:26.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because at least until\Nthere's a change in the law,
Dialogue: 0,2:53:26.83,2:53:29.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they are often the only ones\Nwho can actually bring any kind
Dialogue: 0,2:53:29.86,2:53:31.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of challenge to the\Nscope of the--
Dialogue: 0,2:53:31.40,2:53:34.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the authority that the\Ngovernment is claiming.
Dialogue: 0,2:53:34.10,2:53:37.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> This is nothing new\Nbecause in World War II,
Dialogue: 0,2:53:37.47,2:53:41.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the federal government used to\Nlook at the telegraphs at RCA
Dialogue: 0,2:53:41.01,2:53:44.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and look at the phone system\Nfor records and stuff like that.
Dialogue: 0,2:53:44.11,2:53:46.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean what's changed\Nis the number of players
Dialogue: 0,2:53:46.45,2:53:48.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because back then it was\Njust those two, I suppose,
Dialogue: 0,2:53:48.55,2:53:49.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,plus maybe some minors.
Dialogue: 0,2:53:49.88,2:53:51.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now you have you know multi--
Dialogue: 0,2:53:51.22,2:53:53.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,multinational groups\Nall over the place.
Dialogue: 0,2:53:53.26,2:53:56.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But the technique, I mean,\Nthe tactic of government going
Dialogue: 0,2:53:56.72,2:54:01.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to a provider and getting the\Ninformation they need, it's--
Dialogue: 0,2:54:01.96,2:54:03.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's [inaudible] been there.
Dialogue: 0,2:54:03.10,2:54:04.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> I would assume the\NEgyptian government did
Dialogue: 0,2:54:04.73,2:54:07.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that when the communications\Nwere chiseled, you know,
Dialogue: 0,2:54:07.10,2:54:08.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,letters chiseled\Non stone tablets.
Dialogue: 0,2:54:08.64,2:54:11.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> I'm going to-- We\Nhave five minutes left.
Dialogue: 0,2:54:11.21,2:54:13.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm going to give each\Nyou one minute to--
Dialogue: 0,2:54:13.71,2:54:14.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we've had a long day,
Dialogue: 0,2:54:14.78,2:54:18.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,very attentive audience,\Nlot of issues.
Dialogue: 0,2:54:18.08,2:54:23.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I want to give each of you\Na chance to make a final point
Dialogue: 0,2:54:23.38,2:54:25.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,after this conversation.
Dialogue: 0,2:54:25.12,2:54:27.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You started with\Nyour initial remarks.
Dialogue: 0,2:54:27.32,2:54:29.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But what do you want the\Naudience to be left with?
Dialogue: 0,2:54:29.69,2:54:33.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What-- in each of your mind\Nis something significant we've
Dialogue: 0,2:54:33.56,2:54:36.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,talked about today, an issue\Nthat you want to reinforce?
Dialogue: 0,2:54:36.16,2:54:37.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I want to give each you\Na chance to do that,
Dialogue: 0,2:54:37.87,2:54:39.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and since we've started\Nwith you earlier,
Dialogue: 0,2:54:39.60,2:54:43.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'll start with you this\Nway and we'll go down.
Dialogue: 0,2:54:43.57,2:54:47.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> So as contentious\Nthis processes is,
Dialogue: 0,2:54:47.38,2:54:49.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think it's incredibly\Nimportant,
Dialogue: 0,2:54:49.58,2:54:52.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the dialogue that's happening\Nin the United States.
Dialogue: 0,2:54:52.65,2:54:57.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Hopefully, we can do more than\Njust, you know, have battles
Dialogue: 0,2:54:57.05,2:55:00.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the newspapers and on panels\Nlike this and really look
Dialogue: 0,2:55:00.49,2:55:04.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at our legal system and make\Nsure that it has the kind
Dialogue: 0,2:55:04.33,2:55:06.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of accountability\Nthat we needed.
Dialogue: 0,2:55:06.60,2:55:09.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Laura said, you know,\Nthe problem here is scale
Dialogue: 0,2:55:09.13,2:55:10.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I really agree with that.
Dialogue: 0,2:55:10.67,2:55:11.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Courts have been good
Dialogue: 0,2:55:11.97,2:55:14.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at supervising electronic\Nsurveillance [inaudible] one
Dialogue: 0,2:55:14.74,2:55:18.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,wiretap on one phone number\Nor a handful of phone numbers.
Dialogue: 0,2:55:18.37,2:55:22.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The scale of intrusion here is\Nsuch that we can only manage it
Dialogue: 0,2:55:22.91,2:55:27.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and have it a proper oversight\Nwith using exactly the same kind
Dialogue: 0,2:55:27.52,2:55:29.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of computational tools\Nand analytic tools
Dialogue: 0,2:55:29.52,2:55:32.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that are being used by the\Nintelligence agencies to try
Dialogue: 0,2:55:32.45,2:55:34.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to mind this data to begin with.
Dialogue: 0,2:55:34.42,2:55:38.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the one other thing I\Nwould just say is, this is--
Dialogue: 0,2:55:38.26,2:55:40.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as several people said,\Nthis is a global discussion.
Dialogue: 0,2:55:40.73,2:55:48.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The US is obviously an important\Npart of the internet environment
Dialogue: 0,2:55:48.00,2:55:50.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but we are not the only\Ncountry on the internet
Dialogue: 0,2:55:50.84,2:55:55.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we do not control the whole\Ninternet and I think that just
Dialogue: 0,2:55:55.64,2:55:58.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as we are examining the behavior\Nof our intelligence agencies,
Dialogue: 0,2:55:58.71,2:56:01.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think it's very important\Nthat other countries
Dialogue: 0,2:56:01.48,2:56:04.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that have democratic values\Nthat believe in transparency
Dialogue: 0,2:56:04.95,2:56:08.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and due process really look\Nvery hard at their intelligence
Dialogue: 0,2:56:08.22,2:56:10.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and surveillance\Npractices as well.
Dialogue: 0,2:56:10.26,2:56:11.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Thanks, Dan.
Dialogue: 0,2:56:11.29,2:56:12.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Lynn.
Dialogue: 0,2:56:12.39,2:56:15.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> I guess I'd start with saying
Dialogue: 0,2:56:15.53,2:56:18.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that everybody's voice is\Nextraordinarily important,
Dialogue: 0,2:56:18.47,2:56:19.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not only here in the US
Dialogue: 0,2:56:19.60,2:56:21.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but every individual\Naround the world.
Dialogue: 0,2:56:21.40,2:56:23.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we need attention\Nand we need voice
Dialogue: 0,2:56:23.80,2:56:27.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to every issue whether it's\Nthis particular set of issues
Dialogue: 0,2:56:27.68,2:56:31.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or it's United Nation's\Nexpressed interest
Dialogue: 0,2:56:31.98,2:56:34.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in some portions of\Nthe internet ecosystem.
Dialogue: 0,2:56:34.55,2:56:37.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think specific\Nto this issue,
Dialogue: 0,2:56:37.75,2:56:39.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the only thing I would say is--
Dialogue: 0,2:56:39.82,2:56:41.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[inaudible] we're all\Nvery interconnected
Dialogue: 0,2:56:41.89,2:56:43.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and very interdependent.
Dialogue: 0,2:56:43.72,2:56:46.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And when we think about\Nthings such as security
Dialogue: 0,2:56:46.19,2:56:50.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or managing risk or trying\Nto manage those tradeoffs,
Dialogue: 0,2:56:50.20,2:56:52.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we actually need\Nto do that in a--
Dialogue: 0,2:56:52.37,2:56:54.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with both sides of the dialogue.
Dialogue: 0,2:56:54.00,2:56:56.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One actually looking at what\Nwe can actually do to protect
Dialogue: 0,2:56:56.94,2:57:00.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and ensure things that\Nsupport economic prosperity
Dialogue: 0,2:57:00.91,2:57:04.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and social development\Nwhile trading off
Dialogue: 0,2:57:04.15,2:57:07.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,against preventing\Nany perceived harm.
Dialogue: 0,2:57:07.02,2:57:10.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think we're far too much to\N[inaudible] over in the side
Dialogue: 0,2:57:10.85,2:57:12.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of preventing perceived harm,
Dialogue: 0,2:57:12.82,2:57:15.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that we don't quite\Nhave the balanced rate yet.
Dialogue: 0,2:57:15.22,2:57:16.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Laura.
Dialogue: 0,2:57:16.62,2:57:22.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> I think it's important not to\Ntake the stability and success
Dialogue: 0,2:57:22.70,2:57:25.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the security of the\Ninternet for granted.
Dialogue: 0,2:57:25.70,2:57:29.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, we're used to it working for\Nthe most part because of efforts
Dialogue: 0,2:57:29.10,2:57:32.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like John's organization and\Nothers and it is working,
Dialogue: 0,2:57:32.27,2:57:36.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but we also have examples\Nof problems with denial
Dialogue: 0,2:57:36.14,2:57:38.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of service attacks, examples
Dialogue: 0,2:57:38.05,2:57:40.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of government is\Ncutting off access,
Dialogue: 0,2:57:40.08,2:57:42.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,examples of interconnection\Nproblems.
Dialogue: 0,2:57:42.35,2:57:44.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have trends away\Nfrom interoperability
Dialogue: 0,2:57:44.52,2:57:46.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which I think is a\Nreally big problem.
Dialogue: 0,2:57:46.49,2:57:48.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have trends away\Nfrom anonymity
Dialogue: 0,2:57:48.36,2:57:50.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which changes the nature of\Nthe technical infrastructure.
Dialogue: 0,2:57:50.99,2:57:53.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, point one is that we\Ncannot take the stability
Dialogue: 0,2:57:53.70,2:57:54.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and security for granted.
Dialogue: 0,2:57:54.86,2:57:57.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It has required a\Ntremendous amount of effort
Dialogue: 0,2:57:57.70,2:58:00.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the parts of many,\Nmany people.
Dialogue: 0,2:58:00.07,2:58:04.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's something that concerns\Nme everyday when I see some
Dialogue: 0,2:58:04.44,2:58:07.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the trends away from\Ninteroperability and security
Dialogue: 0,2:58:07.78,2:58:11.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and interconnection\Nsecurity, basically.
Dialogue: 0,2:58:11.75,2:58:13.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, that's point number one.
Dialogue: 0,2:58:13.12,2:58:15.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The second point\Nis if we believe
Dialogue: 0,2:58:15.55,2:58:19.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we have the public sphere\Nin the online environment,
Dialogue: 0,2:58:19.96,2:58:21.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if we believe that there's\Na technical mediation
Dialogue: 0,2:58:21.99,2:58:24.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the public sphere,\Nthen we have to think
Dialogue: 0,2:58:24.29,2:58:25.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about what that means.
Dialogue: 0,2:58:25.49,2:58:27.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What does the democracy look
Dialogue: 0,2:58:27.10,2:58:30.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like when the public\Nsphere is now digital?
Dialogue: 0,2:58:30.70,2:58:35.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, we know historically that\Npossibility is for anonymity
Dialogue: 0,2:58:35.17,2:58:37.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or at least traceable anonymity\Nhave been closely linked
Dialogue: 0,2:58:37.81,2:58:39.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to democracy.
Dialogue: 0,2:58:39.01,2:58:43.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, I think it's important\Nto just ask the question
Dialogue: 0,2:58:43.64,2:58:45.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of what does democracy look
Dialogue: 0,2:58:45.28,2:58:48.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like when we have this technical\Nmediation of the public sphere
Dialogue: 0,2:58:48.82,2:58:51.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the privatization of\Nconditions of civil liberties
Dialogue: 0,2:58:51.32,2:58:55.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where private companies are\Ngetting a request delegated
Dialogue: 0,2:58:55.69,2:58:58.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from governments or carrying\Nout their own governance
Dialogue: 0,2:58:58.99,2:59:00.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of these infrastructures.
Dialogue: 0,2:59:00.36,2:59:01.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, don't take the\Ninternet security
Dialogue: 0,2:59:01.86,2:59:03.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and instability for granted.
Dialogue: 0,2:59:03.76,2:59:05.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Remember that we have\Nthe technical mediation
Dialogue: 0,2:59:05.80,2:59:07.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the public sphere\Nand the privatization
Dialogue: 0,2:59:07.57,2:59:09.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of conditions of\Ncivil liberties.
Dialogue: 0,2:59:09.17,2:59:14.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the final point is that\Ninternet governance is something
Dialogue: 0,2:59:14.04,2:59:19.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that is-- that the\Npublic can be engaged in.
Dialogue: 0,2:59:19.38,2:59:22.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We've seen examples of\Ncivil society action
Dialogue: 0,2:59:22.22,2:59:27.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of private action, civil\Nliberties advocates involved
Dialogue: 0,2:59:27.26,2:59:28.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in decisions about\Ninternet governance.
Dialogue: 0,2:59:28.99,2:59:30.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are many avenues\Nto do that.
Dialogue: 0,2:59:30.83,2:59:33.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That the-- I do have an\Nengineering background
Dialogue: 0,2:59:33.50,2:59:35.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but the technology\Nis not that hard
Dialogue: 0,2:59:35.66,2:59:38.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that people can learn the\Ntechnology, learn the issues
Dialogue: 0,2:59:38.60,2:59:41.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and get engaged in these\Ndebates which are very important
Dialogue: 0,2:59:41.37,2:59:43.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because as goes internet\Ngovernance,
Dialogue: 0,2:59:43.10,2:59:44.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so goes internet freedom.
Dialogue: 0,2:59:44.91,2:59:46.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Randy?
Dialogue: 0,2:59:46.91,2:59:51.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> All of you here that are\Nattending this panel discussion,
Dialogue: 0,2:59:51.38,2:59:54.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you all have stake in what\Nwe've been talking about.
Dialogue: 0,2:59:54.25,2:59:57.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so I would challenge you\Nguys to not only make sure
Dialogue: 0,2:59:57.52,2:59:59.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that your peers understand\Nwhat some of the pressures are
Dialogue: 0,2:59:59.32,3:00:00.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and what some of the\Npitfalls and what are some
Dialogue: 0,3:00:00.62,3:00:02.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the disadvantages are of\Nworking with the internet.
Dialogue: 0,3:00:02.02,3:00:07.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But also, you guys are\Nprobably going to be on a track
Dialogue: 0,3:00:07.46,3:00:11.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where you're going to be\Nworking with legislators
Dialogue: 0,3:00:11.43,3:00:13.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and policy makers\Nand things like that.
Dialogue: 0,3:00:13.57,3:00:16.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And make sure that they\Nunderstand the implications
Dialogue: 0,3:00:16.90,3:00:20.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of whatever it is that they're\Ntrying to write up or implement,
Dialogue: 0,3:00:20.41,3:00:23.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,both on the legal side\Nand on the policy side.
Dialogue: 0,3:00:23.31,3:00:27.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's to me what I see your\Ncontribution to the whole thing.
Dialogue: 0,3:00:27.12,3:00:28.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's going to be\Nvery incremental.
Dialogue: 0,3:00:28.88,3:00:30.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's going to take a long time.
Dialogue: 0,3:00:30.62,3:00:33.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know if some people talk\Nabout the fact that it's
Dialogue: 0,3:00:33.02,3:00:35.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like when the automobile was\Nfirst introduced at the turn
Dialogue: 0,3:00:35.49,3:00:39.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the century and it took us\N25 years to come up with the set
Dialogue: 0,3:00:39.26,3:00:41.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of laws and procedures\Nto make things work
Dialogue: 0,3:00:41.16,3:00:42.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when we didn't do that.
Dialogue: 0,3:00:42.50,3:00:44.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But you guys are the ones that\Nare going to be talking to
Dialogue: 0,3:00:44.80,3:00:48.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and down the road\Ninfluencing policy and laws.
Dialogue: 0,3:00:48.67,3:00:51.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so, you know,\Ntake the challenge,
Dialogue: 0,3:00:51.24,3:00:55.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,do it and influence\Nwhat you can.
Dialogue: 0,3:00:55.14,3:00:56.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Leslie.
Dialogue: 0,3:00:56.18,3:00:59.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> So I'm just going\Nto make one point.
Dialogue: 0,3:00:59.08,3:01:03.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's that those of us\Nwho are Americans or people
Dialogue: 0,3:01:03.05,3:01:07.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the United States have\Na voice in this debate
Dialogue: 0,3:01:07.32,3:01:09.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we need to exercise.
Dialogue: 0,3:01:09.26,3:01:11.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But we need to exercise\Nit with more
Dialogue: 0,3:01:11.09,3:01:12.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,than our own rights in mind.
Dialogue: 0,3:01:12.96,3:01:16.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If-- the interesting thing\Nabout the internet and the lack
Dialogue: 0,3:01:16.96,3:01:19.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of a government control is the--
Dialogue: 0,3:01:19.33,3:01:23.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's also very unclear\Nabout who's responsible
Dialogue: 0,3:01:23.37,3:01:29.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for the human rights of people\Nin the online environment.
Dialogue: 0,3:01:29.58,3:01:33.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we-- I think the NSA example\Nthat we have data flowing all
Dialogue: 0,3:01:33.68,3:01:37.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,over the world, states\Nhave obligations to people
Dialogue: 0,3:01:37.35,3:01:43.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,within their borders, and\Na few other kinds of places
Dialogue: 0,3:01:43.76,3:01:45.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the law has developed.
Dialogue: 0,3:01:45.63,3:01:48.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We're not sure who has the\Nobligation for the rights
Dialogue: 0,3:01:48.96,3:01:51.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of internet users in\Nthis kind of environment.
Dialogue: 0,3:01:51.40,3:01:56.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's a conversation\Nthat really needs to happen
Dialogue: 0,3:01:56.54,3:01:59.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because the-- our lives,\Nsome significant part
Dialogue: 0,3:01:59.01,3:02:03.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of who we are is now online\Nand flowing through these wires
Dialogue: 0,3:02:03.88,3:02:07.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and who ultimately is\Nresponsible to make sure
Dialogue: 0,3:02:07.25,3:02:10.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that basic privacy and free\Nexpression rights are honored
Dialogue: 0,3:02:10.18,3:02:12.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has become increasingly complex.
Dialogue: 0,3:02:12.95,3:02:15.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, people need to\Ntake that on as well.
Dialogue: 0,3:02:15.66,3:02:16.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> Last word, John.
Dialogue: 0,3:02:16.42,3:02:20.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> It's a global internet.
Dialogue: 0,3:02:20.63,3:02:23.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There needs to be an\Nequally global discussion
Dialogue: 0,3:02:23.96,3:02:28.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about the principles\Nby which we operate it.
Dialogue: 0,3:02:28.20,3:02:30.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And part of what's occurred
Dialogue: 0,3:02:30.54,3:02:34.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,over the last few months will\Nhelp encourage one aspect
Dialogue: 0,3:02:34.71,3:02:35.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of that discussion.
Dialogue: 0,3:02:35.68,3:02:37.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, it's a probably\Na good thing.
Dialogue: 0,3:02:37.75,3:02:39.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,>> I want to thank all\Nof you for being here.
Dialogue: 0,3:02:39.21,3:02:40.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I want to thank the\NInternet Society.
Dialogue: 0,3:02:40.55,3:02:43.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I want to thank the GW\NEngineering Department
Dialogue: 0,3:02:43.18,3:02:45.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and their [inaudible]\NLance Hoffman's Institute.
Dialogue: 0,3:02:45.55,3:02:48.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Long afternoon, thanks\Nfor your patience.
Dialogue: 0,3:02:48.19,3:02:49.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I hope you learned something.
Dialogue: 0,3:02:49.32,3:02:50.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Come back again.
Dialogue: 0,3:02:50.82,3:02:51.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thanks a lot.
Dialogue: 0,3:02:51.86,3:02:53.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[Applause]