WEBVTT 00:00:13.690 --> 00:00:15.840 - [Doreen Garner] I've been having more conversations 00:00:15.840 --> 00:00:18.440 with God in the morning and you know, 00:00:18.440 --> 00:00:20.820 it's usually you know smoke like a joint 00:00:20.820 --> 00:00:22.173 and then talk in a mirror. 00:00:24.530 --> 00:00:26.885 A lot of my most impactful works 00:00:26.885 --> 00:00:28.763 are through those conversations. 00:00:38.220 --> 00:00:42.890 Since lockdown I've changed material tone a lot, 00:00:42.890 --> 00:00:45.733 you know, I've been really aware of 00:00:45.733 --> 00:00:50.733 how Black people are viewing like 00:00:50.820 --> 00:00:53.000 Black bodies in public spaces, 00:00:53.000 --> 00:00:57.550 especially if they like allude to any type of violence. 00:00:57.550 --> 00:01:00.640 So, you know, my sculptures 00:01:00.640 --> 00:01:03.370 usually end up looking pretty violent or 00:01:03.370 --> 00:01:06.260 grotesque or however you want to describe them. 00:01:06.260 --> 00:01:10.260 And so I didn't want to trigger anybody 00:01:11.130 --> 00:01:15.760 more so than before COVID and 00:01:15.760 --> 00:01:19.770 ways that Black death was broadcasted on TV last year. 00:01:19.770 --> 00:01:23.140 So I'm kind of changing tone materially. 00:01:23.140 --> 00:01:26.030 I'm working more with white flesh and 00:01:28.140 --> 00:01:30.287 disease and toxicity. 00:01:31.580 --> 00:01:32.555 - [Doreen Garner] Yeah 00:01:32.555 --> 00:01:35.222 (Doreen laughs) 00:01:38.586 --> 00:01:42.503 (suspenseful fast paced music) 00:01:47.707 --> 00:01:48.740 Right now, 00:01:48.740 --> 00:01:53.740 I'm doing some castings for a piece I'm working on 00:01:53.850 --> 00:01:56.430 it's, it's a series, 00:01:56.430 --> 00:01:59.176 but I'm starting two of the flags 00:01:59.176 --> 00:02:04.130 and they're made out of flesh. 00:02:04.130 --> 00:02:08.650 It's supposed to be white diseased skin on the front 00:02:08.650 --> 00:02:11.680 composing colonizing country flags, 00:02:11.680 --> 00:02:16.080 and then Black bodies on the backside 00:02:16.080 --> 00:02:19.633 that are kind of bloody and piled up. 00:02:19.633 --> 00:02:21.863 The two flags I'm working on right now, 00:02:21.863 --> 00:02:26.696 it's the British flag. And then the flag of Portugal. 00:02:29.330 --> 00:02:32.295 - [Doreen Garner] Those are just two of a few countries 00:02:32.295 --> 00:02:36.192 that were leading in the transatlantic slave trade. 00:02:36.192 --> 00:02:41.030 These two pieces are going to a solo show in Austria, 00:02:41.030 --> 00:02:46.030 and I don't want to put a bunch of bloody Black bodies 00:02:46.200 --> 00:02:49.590 just by themselves as entertainment. So I want them 00:02:49.590 --> 00:02:54.253 to think about ways that their whiteness, 00:02:57.580 --> 00:03:02.569 adds to racism experienced throughout the globe, 00:03:02.569 --> 00:03:04.720 regardless of whether they think 00:03:04.720 --> 00:03:06.050 that they're involved or not. 00:03:06.050 --> 00:03:07.360 A lot of Europeans are like, no, 00:03:07.360 --> 00:03:08.640 we don't do that over here. It's like, well, 00:03:08.640 --> 00:03:09.840 y'all started this shit. 00:03:12.860 --> 00:03:15.070 This piece is a smallpox piece. 00:03:15.070 --> 00:03:18.713 And then this one is more syphilis. 00:03:20.410 --> 00:03:25.310 Working now with white flesh, it's been really difficult 00:03:25.310 --> 00:03:29.158 making the adjustment color-wise. 00:03:29.158 --> 00:03:32.173 There has been a complete shift in my palette 00:03:32.173 --> 00:03:36.550 and figuring out what looks human. 00:03:36.550 --> 00:03:39.220 I've been getting so frustrated 00:03:39.220 --> 00:03:41.740 with trying to get white people's skin tone right. 00:03:41.740 --> 00:03:44.800 And I was explaining this to my friend Nene, 00:03:44.800 --> 00:03:46.040 and she was like, oh, you know, 00:03:46.040 --> 00:03:48.630 I totally feel you because for so long, 00:03:48.630 --> 00:03:50.790 they've gotten our skin tone wrong. 00:03:50.790 --> 00:03:54.933 And it just sent chills because 00:03:54.933 --> 00:03:57.380 I think about all the ways that Black people 00:03:57.380 --> 00:04:01.636 have been misrepresented aesthetically 00:04:01.636 --> 00:04:06.310 and they're totally wrong and offensive. 00:04:06.310 --> 00:04:10.020 And so it's really crazy for me 00:04:10.020 --> 00:04:14.610 to actively try to get their skin tone right, 00:04:14.610 --> 00:04:18.210 when there hasn't been the same amount of consideration 00:04:19.600 --> 00:04:21.453 in ways that they represent us. 00:04:26.980 --> 00:04:29.120 The piece that I did for Basel 00:04:29.120 --> 00:04:32.274 did kind of focus more on whiteness. 00:04:32.274 --> 00:04:37.274 And focusing on whiteness for that piece, 00:04:37.280 --> 00:04:42.180 people read as a more abstract and you know, 00:04:42.180 --> 00:04:44.010 that the piece hasn't sold yet, 00:04:44.010 --> 00:04:45.470 not to say that it won't sell, 00:04:45.470 --> 00:04:50.470 but just thinking about ways that pieces that I've made 00:04:51.770 --> 00:04:56.313 that have had Black bodies have sold faster, 00:04:58.040 --> 00:05:00.957 you know, something to think about. 00:05:10.430 --> 00:05:11.340 - [Doreen Garner] I mean, that's the thing is 00:05:11.340 --> 00:05:13.640 I'm not really trying to shit on the art world. 00:05:13.640 --> 00:05:18.640 It just makes me feel viscerally uncomfortable sometimes. 00:05:18.840 --> 00:05:23.840 And that can come in social anxiety at exhibition, 00:05:25.300 --> 00:05:28.290 or staying up all night, 00:05:28.290 --> 00:05:31.310 trying to prepare files for an application 00:05:31.310 --> 00:05:33.420 that I might get denied for. 00:05:33.420 --> 00:05:35.220 And what does that do to me? You know, 00:05:35.220 --> 00:05:40.220 it's like constantly setting up yourself for denial. 00:05:40.862 --> 00:05:44.143 Seems kind of unhealthy, right? Mentally unhealthy. 00:05:45.370 --> 00:05:49.480 And I think that's why I really enjoy tattooing 00:05:49.480 --> 00:05:52.230 because I don't have to think about that stuff anymore. 00:05:55.552 --> 00:05:58.640 I'm just interacting with that one person 00:05:59.870 --> 00:06:00.703 for a few hours. 00:06:02.150 --> 00:06:05.293 It's not rooted in acceptance or denial. 00:06:06.563 --> 00:06:07.875 - [Doreen Garner] You ready Debbie? 00:06:07.875 --> 00:06:08.708 - [Debbie Snax] Yeah. 00:06:08.708 --> 00:06:10.600 - [Doreen Garner] We're gonna put it on. 00:06:14.760 --> 00:06:17.823 We met on the internet. 00:06:18.890 --> 00:06:22.286 Debbie is a tattooer from Atlanta 00:06:22.286 --> 00:06:25.113 and now we're like little tattoo besties. 00:06:26.740 --> 00:06:28.646 - [Debbie Snax] Being a traditional tattooer is mostly a, 00:06:28.646 --> 00:06:31.330 it's a traditional white thing to do. You know? 00:06:31.330 --> 00:06:34.320 So most of the time, if I find people who are kind of 00:06:34.320 --> 00:06:38.090 on my same level then they're white. 00:06:38.090 --> 00:06:42.063 So being around Doreen has made me want to, 00:06:42.940 --> 00:06:46.384 not transform myself into more Black, but just 00:06:46.384 --> 00:06:49.703 it's made me more comfortable with drawing Black things. 00:06:58.312 --> 00:07:02.040 - [Doreen] The community that I have in the tattoo world, 00:07:02.040 --> 00:07:05.370 you know they're just more my people. 00:07:05.370 --> 00:07:09.473 Very weird. You know weird, tattooed. 00:07:11.052 --> 00:07:14.095 (laughing) 00:07:14.095 --> 00:07:15.165 - [Doreen] I love it, I love it. 00:07:15.165 --> 00:07:16.610 - [Off Camera] Oh my god, I hate this, I hate this. 00:07:16.610 --> 00:07:17.667 - Oh my gosh 00:07:17.667 --> 00:07:19.400 (laughter) 00:07:19.400 --> 00:07:21.840 - [Debbie Snax] When you first became into yourself, 00:07:21.840 --> 00:07:23.357 did you think you would be a tattooer? 00:07:23.357 --> 00:07:26.810 - [Doreen Garner] No, I mean, I always, 00:07:26.810 --> 00:07:29.500 I was always such a shy nerd. 00:07:29.500 --> 00:07:33.620 And I never thought, I mean I had always hoped 00:07:33.620 --> 00:07:35.790 that I would be covered in tattoos 00:07:35.790 --> 00:07:36.830 and a lot of gold jewelry. 00:07:36.830 --> 00:07:39.221 You know, now that it's happening, 00:07:39.221 --> 00:07:40.915 I'm about it. 00:07:40.915 --> 00:07:42.115 - [Debbie Snax] Right, it's a cute little vibe. 00:07:42.115 --> 00:07:43.333 - [Doreen Garner] It's a cute little vibe. 00:07:43.333 --> 00:07:48.333 - [Debbie Snax] Yeah (laughs) 00:07:48.570 --> 00:07:49.403 [Doreen Garner] Then with tattooing, 00:07:49.403 --> 00:07:50.236 it allows people to collect my work. 00:07:52.770 --> 00:07:54.330 You know, they wouldn't necessarily be able 00:07:54.330 --> 00:07:57.344 to buy a 50 inch flag made of flesh 00:07:57.344 --> 00:07:59.313 and put on their wall, you know. 00:08:01.960 --> 00:08:04.140 Most of the people that I tattoo 00:08:04.140 --> 00:08:04.973 have no idea that I'm a sculptor 00:08:04.973 --> 00:08:05.806 and to what degree my art practice goes. 00:08:14.870 --> 00:08:17.720 If you are Black, melanated and tattooed, 00:08:17.720 --> 00:08:19.735 we're going to be taking some photographs 00:08:19.735 --> 00:08:22.490 of Black people that have tattoos, 00:08:22.490 --> 00:08:24.380 because there's not a lot of documentation 00:08:24.380 --> 00:08:25.830 of Black people with tattoos. 00:08:28.047 --> 00:08:28.880 - [Interviewee] I'm sure, 00:08:28.880 --> 00:08:30.200 everybody here has been tatted by Doreen. 00:08:30.200 --> 00:08:31.093 - [Off camera] They have. 00:08:31.093 --> 00:08:31.926 - [Interviewee] Including yourself? 00:08:31.926 --> 00:08:33.310 - [Off Camera] No, I'm the last one standing. 00:08:33.310 --> 00:08:36.810 - [Interviewee] This is not good. 00:08:38.450 --> 00:08:40.920 - [Doreen Garner] You know, with my tattoos, 00:08:40.920 --> 00:08:42.660 I'm just trying to create the images 00:08:42.660 --> 00:08:46.763 that Black people wanna get on their body, forever. 00:08:48.641 --> 00:08:50.675 Things that they resonate with, 00:08:50.675 --> 00:08:53.253 things that make them feel beautiful.