- [Doreen Garner] I've been having more conversations
with God in the morning and you know,
it's usually you know smoke like a joint
and then talk in a mirror.
A lot of my most impactful works
are through those conversations.
Since lockdown I've changed material tone a lot,
you know, I've been really aware of
how Black people are viewing like
Black bodies in public spaces,
especially if they like allude to any type of violence.
So, you know, my sculptures
usually end up looking pretty violent or
grotesque or however you want to describe them.
And so I didn't want to trigger anybody
more so than before COVID and
ways that Black death was broadcasted on TV last year.
So I'm kind of changing tone materially.
I'm working more with white flesh and
disease and toxicity.
- [Doreen Garner] Yeah
(Doreen laughs)
(suspenseful fast paced music)
Right now,
I'm doing some castings for a piece I'm working on
it's, it's a series,
but I'm starting two of the flags
and they're made out of flesh.
It's supposed to be white diseased skin on the front
composing colonizing country flags,
and then Black bodies on the backside
that are kind of bloody and piled up.
The two flags I'm working on right now,
it's the British flag. And then the flag of Portugal.
- [Doreen Garner] Those are just two of a few countries
that were leading in the transatlantic slave trade.
These two pieces are going to a solo show in Austria,
and I don't want to put a bunch of bloody Black bodies
just by themselves as entertainment. So I want them
to think about ways that their whiteness,
adds to racism experienced throughout the globe,
regardless of whether they think
that they're involved or not.
A lot of Europeans are like, no,
we don't do that over here. It's like, well,
y'all started this shit.
This piece is a smallpox piece.
And then this one is more syphilis.
Working now with white flesh, it's been really difficult
making the adjustment color-wise.
There has been a complete shift in my palette
and figuring out what looks human.
I've been getting so frustrated
with trying to get white people's skin tone right.
And I was explaining this to my friend Nene,
and she was like, oh, you know,
I totally feel you because for so long,
they've gotten our skin tone wrong.
And it just sent chills because
I think about all the ways that Black people
have been misrepresented aesthetically
and they're totally wrong and offensive.
And so it's really crazy for me
to actively try to get their skin tone right,
when there hasn't been the same amount of consideration
in ways that they represent us.
The piece that I did for Basel
did kind of focus more on whiteness.
And focusing on whiteness for that piece,
people read as a more abstract and you know,
that the piece hasn't sold yet,
not to say that it won't sell,
but just thinking about ways that pieces that I've made
that have had Black bodies have sold faster,
you know, something to think about.
- [Doreen Garner] I mean, that's the thing is
I'm not really trying to shit on the art world.
It just makes me feel viscerally uncomfortable sometimes.
And that can come in social anxiety at exhibition,
or staying up all night,
trying to prepare files for an application
that I might get denied for.
And what does that do to me? You know,
it's like constantly setting up yourself for denial.
Seems kind of unhealthy, right? Mentally unhealthy.
And I think that's why I really enjoy tattooing
because I don't have to think about that stuff anymore.
I'm just interacting with that one person
for a few hours.
It's not rooted in acceptance or denial.
- [Doreen Garner] You ready Debbie?
- [Debbie Snax] Yeah.
- [Doreen Garner] We're gonna put it on.
We met on the internet.
Debbie is a tattooer from Atlanta
and now we're like little tattoo besties.
- [Debbie Snax] Being a traditional tattooer is mostly a,
it's a traditional white thing to do. You know?
So most of the time, if I find people who are kind of
on my same level then they're white.
So being around Doreen has made me want to,
not transform myself into more Black, but just
it's made me more comfortable with drawing Black things.
- [Doreen] The community that I have in the tattoo world,
you know they're just more my people.
Very weird. You know weird, tattooed.
(laughing)
- [Doreen] I love it, I love it.
- [Off Camera] Oh my god, I hate this, I hate this.
- Oh my gosh
(laughter)
- [Debbie Snax] When you first became into yourself,
did you think you would be a tattooer?
- [Doreen Garner] No, I mean, I always,
I was always such a shy nerd.
And I never thought, I mean I had always hoped
that I would be covered in tattoos
and a lot of gold jewelry.
You know, now that it's happening,
I'm about it.
- [Debbie Snax] Right, it's a cute little vibe.
- [Doreen Garner] It's a cute little vibe.
- [Debbie Snax] Yeah (laughs)
[Doreen Garner] Then with tattooing,
it allows people to collect my work.
You know, they wouldn't necessarily be able
to buy a 50 inch flag made of flesh
and put on their wall, you know.
Most of the people that I tattoo
have no idea that I'm a sculptor
and to what degree my art practice goes.
If you are Black, melanated and tattooed,
we're going to be taking some photographs
of Black people that have tattoos,
because there's not a lot of documentation
of Black people with tattoos.
- [Interviewee] I'm sure,
everybody here has been tatted by Doreen.
- [Off camera] They have.
- [Interviewee] Including yourself?
- [Off Camera] No, I'm the last one standing.
- [Interviewee] This is not good.
- [Doreen Garner] You know, with my tattoos,
I'm just trying to create the images
that Black people wanna get on their body, forever.
Things that they resonate with,
things that make them feel beautiful.