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- [Doreen Garner] I've been
having more conversations

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with God in the morning and you know,

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it's usually you know smoke like a joint

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and then talk in a mirror.

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A lot of my most impactful works

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are through those conversations.

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Since lockdown I've changed
material tone a lot,

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you know, I've been really aware of

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how Black people are viewing like

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Black bodies in public spaces,

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especially if they like allude
to any type of violence.

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So, you know, my sculptures

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usually end up looking pretty violent or

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grotesque or however you
want to describe them.

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And so I didn't want to trigger anybody

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more so than before COVID and

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ways that Black death was
broadcasted on TV last year.

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So I'm kind of changing tone materially.

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I'm working more with white flesh and

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disease and toxicity.

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- [Doreen Garner] Yeah

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(Doreen laughs)

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(suspenseful fast paced music)

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Right now,

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I'm doing some castings
for a piece I'm working on

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it's, it's a series,

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but I'm starting two of the flags

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and they're made out of flesh.

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It's supposed to be white
diseased skin on the front

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composing colonizing country flags,

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and then Black bodies on the backside

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that are kind of bloody and piled up.

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The two flags I'm working on right now,

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it's the British flag. And
then the flag of Portugal.

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- [Doreen Garner] Those are
just two of a few countries

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that were leading in the
transatlantic slave trade.

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These two pieces are going
to a solo show in Austria,

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and I don't want to put a
bunch of bloody Black bodies

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just by themselves as
entertainment. So I want them

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to think about ways that their whiteness,

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adds to racism experienced
throughout the globe,

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regardless of whether they think

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that they're involved or not.

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A lot of Europeans are like, no,

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we don't do that over
here. It's like, well,

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y'all started this shit.

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This piece is a smallpox piece.

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And then this one is more syphilis.

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Working now with white flesh,
it's been really difficult

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making the adjustment color-wise.

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There has been a complete
shift in my palette

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and figuring out what looks human.

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I've been getting so frustrated

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with trying to get white
people's skin tone right.

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And I was explaining
this to my friend Nene,

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and she was like, oh, you know,

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I totally feel you because for so long,

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they've gotten our skin tone wrong.

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And it just sent chills because

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I think about all the
ways that Black people

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have been misrepresented aesthetically

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and they're totally wrong and offensive.

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And so it's really crazy for me

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to actively try to get
their skin tone right,

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when there hasn't been the
same amount of consideration

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in ways that they represent us.

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The piece that I did for Basel

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did kind of focus more on whiteness.

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And focusing on whiteness for that piece,

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people read as a more
abstract and you know,

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that the piece hasn't sold yet,

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not to say that it won't sell,

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but just thinking about ways
that pieces that I've made

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that have had Black
bodies have sold faster,

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you know, something to think about.

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- [Doreen Garner] I
mean, that's the thing is

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I'm not really trying to
shit on the art world.

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It just makes me feel viscerally
uncomfortable sometimes.

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And that can come in social
anxiety at exhibition,

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or staying up all night,

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trying to prepare files for an application

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that I might get denied for.

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And what does that do to me? You know,

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it's like constantly setting
up yourself for denial.

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Seems kind of unhealthy,
right? Mentally unhealthy.

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And I think that's why
I really enjoy tattooing

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because I don't have to think
about that stuff anymore.

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I'm just interacting with that one person

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for a few hours.

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It's not rooted in acceptance or denial.

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- [Doreen Garner] You ready Debbie?

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- [Debbie Snax] Yeah.

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- [Doreen Garner] We're gonna put it on.

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We met on the internet.

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Debbie is a tattooer from Atlanta

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and now we're like little tattoo besties.

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- [Debbie Snax] Being a
traditional tattooer is mostly a,

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it's a traditional white
thing to do. You know?

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So most of the time, if I
find people who are kind of

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on my same level then they're white.

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So being around Doreen
has made me want to,

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not transform myself
into more Black, but just

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it's made me more comfortable
with drawing Black things.

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- [Doreen] The community that
I have in the tattoo world,

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you know they're just more my people.

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Very weird. You know weird, tattooed.

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(laughing)

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- [Doreen] I love it, I love it.

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- [Off Camera] Oh my god,
I hate this, I hate this.

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- Oh my gosh

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(laughter)

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- [Debbie Snax] When you
first became into yourself,

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did you think you would be a tattooer?

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- [Doreen Garner] No, I mean, I always,

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I was always such a shy nerd.

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And I never thought, I
mean I had always hoped

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that I would be covered in tattoos

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and a lot of gold jewelry.

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You know, now that it's happening,

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I'm about it.

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- [Debbie Snax] Right,
it's a cute little vibe.

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- [Doreen Garner] It's a cute little vibe.

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- [Debbie Snax] Yeah (laughs)

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[Doreen Garner] Then with tattooing,

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it allows people to collect my work.

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You know, they wouldn't
necessarily be able

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to buy a 50 inch flag made of flesh

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and put on their wall, you know.

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Most of the people that I tattoo

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have no idea that I'm a sculptor

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and to what degree my art practice goes.

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If you are Black, melanated and tattooed,

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we're going to be taking some photographs

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of Black people that have tattoos,

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because there's not a lot of documentation

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of Black people with tattoos.

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- [Interviewee] I'm sure,

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everybody here has been tatted by Doreen.

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- [Off camera] They have.

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- [Interviewee] Including yourself?

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- [Off Camera] No, I'm
the last one standing.

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- [Interviewee] This is not good.

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- [Doreen Garner] You
know, with my tattoos,

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I'm just trying to create the images

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that Black people wanna
get on their body, forever.

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Things that they resonate with,

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things that make them feel beautiful.