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When I first started, what was very very important to me

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Was dealing with the nature of process.

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So, what I had done was I had written a verb list--

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To roll, to fold, to cut,

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To dangle, to twist--or whatever.

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And I really just worked out pieces in relation to the verb list

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Physically in a space.

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Now, what happens when you do that is

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You don't become involved with the psychology of what you're making,

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Nor do you become involved with the after image of what it's going to look like.

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So, basically, it gives you a way of proceeding,

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With material in relation to body movement,

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In relation to making,

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That divorces you from any notion of metaphor,

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Any notion of easy imagery.

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I think what artists do is

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They invent strategies that allow themselves to see

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In a way that they haven't seen before

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To extend their vision.

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Various artists do it in different ways:

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Cézanne did it in his way,

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Obviously, Pollock did it his way

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By dripping downward in a horizontal plane.

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But I think what's interesting about artists is

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They constantly come up with ways of informing themselves

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By inventing tools or techniques or processes

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That allow them to see into a material manifestation

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In the way that you would not if you dealt with standardized

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Or academic ways of thinking.

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These ellipses only came about because

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We'd invented a wheel to make these things

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In order for us to understand what we were doing.

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And albeit it's a small invention

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And on another sense, it has never come up

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In the history of form making before.

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We're not drawing the outside of the piece

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Like a pear or a donut.

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What we're doing is trying to figure out

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What the internal volume will revolve like.

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We made a wheel to figure that out,

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And that wheel predicates the outside the skin.

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So it's the way of working from the inside, out.

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I think one constantly tries to invent ways

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Of seeing into what one's doing

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So you don't get into some lock-step notion

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Of how to do what you do.

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I have to kind of invent new strategies

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In order to not go back to something that's just a reflex action.