[Script Info]
Title: 
[Events]
Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,0:00:00.00,0:00:16.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}prerol music{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:00:16.09,0:00:21.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Herald: OK, then welcome come back\Neveryone. With these void spaces of the
Dialogue: 0,0:00:21.52,0:00:25.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Internet into which we've all been forced\Nto migrate. This is our last talk for
Dialogue: 0,0:00:25.91,0:00:31.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,today: "How to solve conflict in a\Ncommunity of equals" by Merlijn. We'll
Dialogue: 0,0:00:31.14,0:00:35.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,talk about specifically how to solve\Nconflict in a community in which there is
Dialogue: 0,0:00:35.62,0:00:41.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,no leader based on his own experiences from\Nhacker camps and the hackerspace in Gent
Dialogue: 0,0:00:41.07,0:00:48.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in Belgium. So without further I do. Merlijn\Nthe stream is yours and start the talk.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:48.74,0:00:53.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Merlijn Sebrechts: Thanks for the\Nintroduction and thanks for having me here
Dialogue: 0,0:00:53.02,0:00:58.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to share my experience, so to give a\Nlittle bit of background about why I'm
Dialogue: 0,0:00:58.43,0:01:08.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,doing this talk. About seven or eight\Nyears ago, I came into hackerspace Gent.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:08.06,0:01:17.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And at that time it was still flourishing.\NBut in 2014, the hackerspace imploded
Dialogue: 0,0:01:17.09,0:01:22.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because of internal conflict. And this is\Nsomething that seems to happen a lot with
Dialogue: 0,0:01:22.19,0:01:28.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,hackerspaces and with other organizations\Nwhich are less structured, don't have
Dialogue: 0,0:01:28.61,0:01:37.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,clear leadership or a clear hierarchy. But\Nin 2014, one of the original founders of
Dialogue: 0,0:01:37.65,0:01:43.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the hackerspace started the idea to\Nactually create workshops around finding a
Dialogue: 0,0:01:43.19,0:01:50.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,system to fix our community. I was very\Ninterested in that initiative. So I joined
Dialogue: 0,0:01:50.26,0:01:56.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the so I joined the workshops and together\Nwith the other people from the
Dialogue: 0,0:01:56.72,0:02:02.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,hackerspace, we started building a system\Nthat basically got the best out of people,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:02.16,0:02:10.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but that was still very close to anarchy,\Nvery a very chaotic system. This is my
Dialogue: 0,0:02:10.64,0:02:22.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,cat, Simba. He will be also here for the\Ntalk, probably. And in throughout the year
Dialogue: 0,0:02:22.24,0:02:30.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,2014, we started writing down how the\Nsystem would work. First very informally,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:30.02,0:02:35.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and in 2015 I decided to become a board\Nmember of hackerspace Gent with the
Dialogue: 0,0:02:35.41,0:02:44.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,explicit goal to implement this system.\NAnd the first thing I did was basically
Dialogue: 0,0:02:44.68,0:02:51.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,change the role of board members into\Nremoving any of their leadership
Dialogue: 0,0:02:51.18,0:02:58.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,responsibilities, but keeping the goal of\Nmaintaining the core infrastructure of the
Dialogue: 0,0:02:58.84,0:03:05.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,hackerspace and acting as a counselor in\Norder to fix conflict. And it's this
Dialogue: 0,0:03:05.19,0:03:14.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,second role that I will talk about in this\Nin this talk. Throughout the following
Dialogue: 0,0:03:14.44,0:03:19.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,years, we kept on hacking the system,\Nhacking our own hackerspace, and finally
Dialogue: 0,0:03:19.96,0:03:26.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,everything we wrote down, we bundled it\Ninto the "hackerspace blueprint", which is
Dialogue: 0,0:03:26.19,0:03:34.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,basically a small booklet describing how\Nto run a hackerspace using doocracy. But
Dialogue: 0,0:03:34.95,0:03:40.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's written very generically so that it\Ncan also be used by other organizations
Dialogue: 0,0:03:40.14,0:03:45.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which want to know more about how to\Nactually run a doocracy, how to run an
Dialogue: 0,0:03:45.54,0:03:56.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,organization where nobody is actually\Nleading the organization. In 2019
Dialogue: 0,0:03:56.32,0:04:00.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,throughout the previous years, that\Nhackerspace kept becoming better and
Dialogue: 0,0:04:00.49,0:04:04.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,better and the environment and the\Natmosphere and the hackerspace kept
Dialogue: 0,0:04:04.71,0:04:12.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,becoming better. But in 2019 we had this\Nreal point of like this is the point at
Dialogue: 0,0:04:12.06,0:04:18.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which the space is running itself as a\Nboard. We don't need to actually intervene
Dialogue: 0,0:04:18.18,0:04:23.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,anymore. The only thing we need to do is\Nmake sure the bills are paid and make sure
Dialogue: 0,0:04:23.03,0:04:32.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,our Internet still works. But the\Ndoocracy worked. And so I started I
Dialogue: 0,0:04:32.21,0:04:38.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,organized a bunch of talks and and\Ndiscussions all on our experience with
Dialogue: 0,0:04:38.01,0:04:45.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,building this community. And time and time\Nagain, I got the exact same question, how
Dialogue: 0,0:04:45.81,0:04:52.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,do you how do you actually solve\Ninterpersonal conflict. And. So, as I
Dialogue: 0,0:04:52.70,0:04:58.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,said, "The Hackerspace BLUEPRINT". It only\Ntalks about how to build this community of
Dialogue: 0,0:04:58.42,0:05:09.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,equals. It doesn't actually talk about how\Nto solve conflict in this community. The
Dialogue: 0,0:05:09.32,0:05:13.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,only thing that's described in "The\NHackerspace BLUEPRINT" is to use the
Dialogue: 0,0:05:13.99,0:05:17.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,private talk pattern, but it's not\Nactually explained by the private talk
Dialogue: 0,0:05:17.64,0:05:24.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,pattern is. So in this talk, I will\Nexplain what a private talk pattern is and
Dialogue: 0,0:05:24.04,0:05:29.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and how to use it to solve conflict. Solve\Nconflict without having to use authority,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:29.97,0:05:37.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,without having to use explicit leadership\Nor forcing people to fall in line. So the
Dialogue: 0,0:05:37.38,0:05:47.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,private talk pattern, we didn't invent it.\NThis is an old hackerspace pattern. Which
Dialogue: 0,0:05:47.22,0:05:54.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is something that a lot of people, a lot\Nof different hackerspaces and notice that
Dialogue: 0,0:05:54.68,0:05:59.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they were using the exact same method in\Norder to solve conflict and in their
Dialogue: 0,0:05:59.22,0:06:03.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,hackerspace. And so it became like a\Ndesign and design pattern for
Dialogue: 0,0:06:03.21,0:06:09.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,hackerspaces. This is a good way to solve\Nconflict. And so it works in two stages.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:09.100,0:06:15.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The first stage is that when there is a\Nconflict, you first talk to the involved
Dialogue: 0,0:06:15.53,0:06:21.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,parties in private. You listen to them,\Nyou let them know how the group feels
Dialogue: 0,0:06:21.51,0:06:27.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about their behavior and you find you\Ntrying to find the root cause of the
Dialogue: 0,0:06:27.28,0:06:32.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,actual conflict that's going on. The\Nsecond part is that you done moderate a
Dialogue: 0,0:06:32.80,0:06:38.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,discussion between the different parties\Ninvolved in the conflict. The goal of this
Dialogue: 0,0:06:38.46,0:06:42.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,discussion is to help these parties\Nunderstand each other and to discuss and
Dialogue: 0,0:06:42.70,0:06:50.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,write down concrete solutions. Now, I\Ncould end my talk here, but I don't think
Dialogue: 0,0:06:50.53,0:06:59.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it would be very useful because there's\Nactually a lot of beneath to using this
Dialogue: 0,0:06:59.02,0:07:06.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,pattern. Well. And so I'm going to get\Nmore information about each stage and
Dialogue: 0,0:07:06.32,0:07:15.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about the kind of mindset that you need in\Norder to use this pattern. So the first
Dialogue: 0,0:07:15.27,0:07:20.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,question is, obviously, who should do\Nthis, who should organize these talks?
Dialogue: 0,0:07:20.64,0:07:26.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, you you should do this because\Nyou're the person listening to this talk.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:26.16,0:07:33.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You're clearly interested in how to solve\Nthis conflict. And so you're probably a
Dialogue: 0,0:07:33.04,0:07:40.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,very good person to actually organize\Nthis. There is no formal authority needed
Dialogue: 0,0:07:40.91,0:07:46.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because this pattern is about offering\Nyour help, you are not forcing the
Dialogue: 0,0:07:46.78,0:07:51.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,conflict to be solved. You are not forcing\Npeople to solve conflict. You are going to
Dialogue: 0,0:07:51.77,0:07:57.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people and you're saying, hey, look, it's\Nclear that there is some conflict here and
Dialogue: 0,0:07:57.73,0:08:04.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this conflict is an issue to everyone\Ninvolved. So can I help you solve this
Dialogue: 0,0:08:04.85,0:08:10.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,conflict? And when you open your help,\Nmost people actually accept it without
Dialogue: 0,0:08:10.88,0:08:17.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,questioning it. However, it's very\Nimportant that the person who does this,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:17.23,0:08:24.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they need to be seen as someone neutral to\Nboth parties. This is this becomes an
Dialogue: 0,0:08:24.24,0:08:31.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,issue. For example, if you've already\Nchosen sides in the conflict, then the
Dialogue: 0,0:08:31.49,0:08:36.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,other party will not see you as a\Ntrustworthy, a neutral person. This can
Dialogue: 0,0:08:36.09,0:08:40.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,also be an issue if you're like very good\Nfriends with one of the parties of the
Dialogue: 0,0:08:40.83,0:08:47.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,conflict. Then again the other party will\Nnot see you as neutral. The second thing
Dialogue: 0,0:08:47.47,0:08:55.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is, is that you have to be prepared to\Nlisten, everyone joins every conversation
Dialogue: 0,0:08:55.49,0:09:00.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with a whole bunch of preconceptions,\Nespecially when a conversation is about
Dialogue: 0,0:09:00.91,0:09:05.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,conflict. Everybody has an idea in their\Nhead about what the issue is of the
Dialogue: 0,0:09:05.07,0:09:11.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,conflict and how it should be solved.\NHowever, a lot of times those issues tend
Dialogue: 0,0:09:11.61,0:09:19.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to those preconceptions, those preexisting\Nideas tend to be wrong. And when you
Dialogue: 0,0:09:19.80,0:09:24.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,actually listen to people, you can\Nactually figure out what the root cause is
Dialogue: 0,0:09:24.93,0:09:29.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you might be surprised. And it's\Nhurting is that it's very important to
Dialogue: 0,0:09:29.40,0:09:37.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,stay authentic because the people involved\Nneed to trust you. And the only way to get
Dialogue: 0,0:09:37.83,0:09:42.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,them to trust you is to show them that\Nyou're authentic and that you are
Dialogue: 0,0:09:42.03,0:09:52.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,genuinely willing to find a solution that\Nbenefits both parties. Then the next thing
Dialogue: 0,0:09:52.59,0:09:58.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you need is you need the right mindset and\Nthe first part of the right mindset is
Dialogue: 0,0:09:58.30,0:10:05.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that conflict needs to be solved. As\Nhumans, we have this tendency to, when we
Dialogue: 0,0:10:05.43,0:10:13.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,see conflict, to just try to ignore it and\Nhope that it goes away by itself or most
Dialogue: 0,0:10:13.39,0:10:18.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,reasonable humans. This is their first\Ninitial response. However, by ignoring
Dialogue: 0,0:10:18.78,0:10:23.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,conflict, you actually allow it to grow.\NAnd when it grows, it becomes more and
Dialogue: 0,0:10:23.91,0:10:28.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,more difficult to actually solve it\Nbecause more and more people get involved
Dialogue: 0,0:10:28.33,0:10:34.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it becomes harder and harder to find\Nthe actual root cause of the problem. So
Dialogue: 0,0:10:34.16,0:10:39.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you need to solve it and you need to solve\Nit as early as possible. It's much better
Dialogue: 0,0:10:39.91,0:10:48.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to to solve this conflict, to intervene\Ntoo early than too late, because given
Dialogue: 0,0:10:48.83,0:10:53.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that this is a process that is beneficial\Nto both sides, there is not really a
Dialogue: 0,0:10:53.64,0:11:03.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,downside to intervening to early. You're\Nnot forcing anybody to do anything, you
Dialogue: 0,0:11:03.46,0:11:09.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just want to hear them out, you just you\Njust want to know more about the conflict.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:09.07,0:11:13.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then the second thing is that the only\Npeople who can stop the conflict are those
Dialogue: 0,0:11:13.77,0:11:20.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,involved. I said that the first response\Nis to ignore conflict. Well, the first
Dialogue: 0,0:11:20.39,0:11:25.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,response is to ignore conflict when you\Nwere interacting with the people who are
Dialogue: 0,0:11:25.85,0:11:29.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,involved with the conflict. And then when\Nyou get to people who are not involved
Dialogue: 0,0:11:29.78,0:11:33.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the conflict, you start talking about\Nit, then you start discussing it and and
Dialogue: 0,0:11:33.08,0:11:37.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,start discussing what might be done to\Nactually solve the issue. And most of the
Dialogue: 0,0:11:37.91,0:11:42.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,times, these discussions happen without\Nthe people who are involved in the
Dialogue: 0,0:11:42.12,0:11:49.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,conflict or without the people that other\Npeople are having issues of it. And this
Dialogue: 0,0:11:49.23,0:11:56.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,will almost certainly fail, these\Nattempts. Talking to third parties has has
Dialogue: 0,0:11:56.11,0:12:02.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,very little value. You can do it in order\Nto get some ideas, but you always need to
Dialogue: 0,0:12:02.72,0:12:07.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,include the people involved in the\Nconflict in these discussions or your
Dialogue: 0,0:12:07.24,0:12:15.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,attempts will fail. Then the third mindset\Npoint is that the contributions of a
Dialogue: 0,0:12:15.98,0:12:22.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,single individual or a few individuals in\Nyour organization are never worked having
Dialogue: 0,0:12:22.37,0:12:29.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that conflict. A lot of times and people\Nin their head, they start to make a
Dialogue: 0,0:12:29.07,0:12:36.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,balance of like, yes, this person is\Ncreating conflict in our organization, but
Dialogue: 0,0:12:36.86,0:12:43.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this person also contributes a lot to our\Norganization so that in our heads, that
Dialogue: 0,0:12:43.62,0:12:55.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,gives them some kind of right to make\Nconflict, but they are never worth it. You
Dialogue: 0,0:12:55.39,0:13:07.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,do not owe it to them to allow them to\Ncreate conflict. If you are afraid that by
Dialogue: 0,0:13:07.75,0:13:13.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,talking to them about a conflict, they\Nwill lower their contributions, then you
Dialogue: 0,0:13:13.40,0:13:19.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,should know that you are trading short\Nterm gains by compromising long term
Dialogue: 0,0:13:19.63,0:13:26.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,viability. In the short term, they might\Nkeep contributing. But in the long term,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:26.15,0:13:32.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this will poison your community and your\Ncommunity will not be long term viable,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:32.79,0:13:38.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,given that this is the track for hackers\Nagainst climate change. Climate change,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:38.26,0:13:45.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for example, is an issue that requires\Nlong term solutions and that requires
Dialogue: 0,0:13:45.84,0:13:53.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,communities who keep putting pressure on\Neveryone over the long term. And so. Or in
Dialogue: 0,0:13:53.49,0:13:57.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,terms of conflict, you should always\Noptimize for long term viability, not for
Dialogue: 0,0:13:57.96,0:14:08.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,short term gains. And the thing is that\Nsolving the conflict even becomes easier
Dialogue: 0,0:14:08.86,0:14:13.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when these people are actually really\Ncontributing a lot to your organization,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:13.55,0:14:18.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because you can start your discussion by\Nwith saying we really value your
Dialogue: 0,0:14:18.60,0:14:23.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,contributions and we want to keep you\Nhere. And that's why we want to solve this
Dialogue: 0,0:14:23.66,0:14:28.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,conflict. You're not a bad person. You're\Nclearly not a bad person. There's just
Dialogue: 0,0:14:28.63,0:14:35.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this conflict that needs to be solved. The\Nsecond part of the right mindset is that
Dialogue: 0,0:14:35.18,0:14:41.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,complex needs to be solved and you need to\Nsee solved as like solving a puzzle or
Dialogue: 0,0:14:41.75,0:14:47.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,solving a math equation. You can't force\Npeople to stop conflict. You need to
Dialogue: 0,0:14:47.71,0:14:51.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,figure out how the pieces are not\Nconnecting to each other. And you need to
Dialogue: 0,0:14:51.85,0:14:58.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,figure out how you can connect the pieces\Nin a way that a puzzle works. As an
Dialogue: 0,0:14:58.32,0:15:03.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,example, punishing people will get you\Nnowhere, even though it is like an innate
Dialogue: 0,0:15:03.52,0:15:08.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,response that we have when, when when\Nconflict arises. We want to see people
Dialogue: 0,0:15:08.70,0:15:15.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,punished, even though this this doesn't\Nactually improve the situation to punish
Dialogue: 0,0:15:15.09,0:15:20.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people. And when you dig deeper into the\Nconflict, you see that that's most
Dialogue: 0,0:15:20.34,0:15:26.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,conflict is created by by bad\Ncommunication, by cultural differences and
Dialogue: 0,0:15:26.44,0:15:32.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by differences in expectation, not by\Npeople being bad people. And so there's
Dialogue: 0,0:15:32.82,0:15:38.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,actually no reason to punish anyone when\Nyou're trying to solve a conflict. So
Dialogue: 0,0:15:38.62,0:15:46.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,every time you want to do a certain\Nmeasure like banning people from joining
Dialogue: 0,0:15:46.54,0:15:51.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,your community space for a while, you\Nalways need to ask yourself, how does this
Dialogue: 0,0:15:51.39,0:15:57.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,improve the situation. Temporarily banning\Npeople can be very useful. It can be
Dialogue: 0,0:15:57.57,0:16:04.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,useful to de-escalate conflict. It can be\Nuseful to to to make sure that stuff
Dialogue: 0,0:16:04.27,0:16:12.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,doesn't blow up before it's at rest. But you\Nshould always do it in order to solve
Dialogue: 0,0:16:12.82,0:16:16.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,something, in order to get a certain\Nresult, not in order to punish people for
Dialogue: 0,0:16:16.88,0:16:26.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what they have done. The whole point of\Nthis is that when conflict is solved is
Dialogue: 0,0:16:26.90,0:16:33.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,actually solved, everybody involved should\Nwin. Nobody should feel like they are the
Dialogue: 0,0:16:33.19,0:16:38.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,looser because almost always people do\Nnot actually want conflict and people do
Dialogue: 0,0:16:38.54,0:16:48.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not actually benefit from conflict. The\Nthird thing about having the right
Dialogue: 0,0:16:48.49,0:16:52.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,mindset is, that you need to get into\Nthese kind of discussions and these kind
Dialogue: 0,0:16:52.41,0:16:57.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of talks with people with the mindest,\Nthat most people are good.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:57.74,0:17:02.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Hanlon's razor also says:\N"Never attribute to malice that
Dialogue: 0,0:17:02.33,0:17:08.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which can be adequately explained by\Nincompetence." It's a very complicated way
Dialogue: 0,0:17:08.10,0:17:15.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to say that if you have two possible\Nexplanations for some of these behavior
Dialogue: 0,0:17:15.01,0:17:22.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and one of those explanations is this\Nperson is trying to do bad things. And the
Dialogue: 0,0:17:22.55,0:17:29.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,second explanation is this person is\Nincredibly incompetent, then probably the
Dialogue: 0,0:17:29.26,0:17:34.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,explanation that involves incompetence\Nwill be the right explanation, because
Dialogue: 0,0:17:34.60,0:17:39.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,most people are good. So most of the times\Nwhen you need to choose between these two
Dialogue: 0,0:17:39.03,0:17:45.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,explanations, choosing the incompetence\None is the right one. And so when you are
Dialogue: 0,0:17:45.33,0:17:52.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in talks with people always in the back of\Nyour head, think about where can I find
Dialogue: 0,0:17:52.01,0:18:00.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the incompetence? What is the incompetence\Nthat that created this issue? And so I've
Dialogue: 0,0:18:00.53,0:18:05.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,talked about cultural differences. For\Nexample, not being aware of cultural
Dialogue: 0,0:18:05.23,0:18:11.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,differences is an incompetence. Not having\Nthe right communication skills is an
Dialogue: 0,0:18:11.50,0:18:21.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,incompetence. If you try to search for the\Nincompetence, most of the time, you will
Dialogue: 0,0:18:21.00,0:18:28.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,get to the root cause of the conflict. So\Nthe first step in the private talk pattern
Dialogue: 0,0:18:28.32,0:18:33.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is the private talks, the individual\Ntalks, the goal of the private talks are
Dialogue: 0,0:18:33.29,0:18:39.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,first to let the person vent. Because in\Nthe end, we want the two in both parties
Dialogue: 0,0:18:39.17,0:18:44.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to talk to each other. But that's not\Npossible if there are too many emotions.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:44.35,0:18:51.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So these individual talks are in order to\Nlet these emotions out and make sure that
Dialogue: 0,0:18:51.08,0:19:01.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,these people are hurt. When they are hurt,\Nwhen they vent these emotions to you and
Dialogue: 0,0:19:01.44,0:19:07.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they have the feeling that they are heard\Nby you, then these emotions will be become
Dialogue: 0,0:19:07.52,0:19:12.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,smaller. And then the next talks, they\Nwill be able to have more rational and
Dialogue: 0,0:19:12.77,0:19:18.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,less emotional and less explosive\Nconversations. The second goal of these
Dialogue: 0,0:19:18.76,0:19:23.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,individual talks is to build trust and\Nunderstanding. And this has to be both
Dialogue: 0,0:19:23.84,0:19:32.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ways. You have to be able to trust them.\NAnd they have to be able to trust you. And
Dialogue: 0,0:19:32.41,0:19:37.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this understanding is very important.\NFirst of all, you need to understand their
Dialogue: 0,0:19:37.46,0:19:42.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,point of view. This doesn't need to be on\Na level of like I would do the exact same
Dialogue: 0,0:19:42.76,0:19:48.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,thing if I was in your place. But you need\Nto understand why they're doing it. And
Dialogue: 0,0:19:48.06,0:19:55.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then second of all, they also need to have\Nsome kind of understanding of what the
Dialogue: 0,0:19:55.95,0:20:01.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,problem is from the other side, like like\Nas outsiders. How do you look at this
Dialogue: 0,0:20:01.37,0:20:06.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,problem? Then the last step of these\Nindividual talks is to find the root
Dialogue: 0,0:20:06.93,0:20:14.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,cause, find the root cause of the\Nconflict. So, a lot of times and I've seen
Dialogue: 0,0:20:14.43,0:20:21.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this happen a lot in hackerspaces, a lot\Nof times. When you look at the surface of
Dialogue: 0,0:20:21.90,0:20:28.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the conflict, it seems to be that that\Nthat it's about certain behavior like this
Dialogue: 0,0:20:28.18,0:20:37.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,person said. This person was very\Ndismissive of my work, for example. But
Dialogue: 0,0:20:37.88,0:20:44.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then, when you dig deeper, you find out\Nthat there are actually other problems
Dialogue: 0,0:20:44.67,0:20:50.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which caused this and a lot of the times\Nsome of the root causes that these people
Dialogue: 0,0:20:50.96,0:20:58.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,don't actually trust each other. One of\Nthe ways to find this out is to to ask a
Dialogue: 0,0:20:58.99,0:21:09.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,person. So say the other person said\Nsomething that hurt you? If somebody else
Dialogue: 0,0:21:09.97,0:21:13.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would say the exact same thing, if a\Nfriend of you would say the exact same
Dialogue: 0,0:21:13.48,0:21:18.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,thing, how would you interpret it then?\NWould you interpret it differently? And if
Dialogue: 0,0:21:18.65,0:21:22.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they would interpret it differently, then,\Nyou know, that's the root cause is not
Dialogue: 0,0:21:22.88,0:21:28.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this communication, but the root cause is\Nthe actual trust, the root causes that
Dialogue: 0,0:21:28.95,0:21:33.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,everything the other person says is seen\Nthrough a very negative light. Everything
Dialogue: 0,0:21:33.88,0:21:41.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the other person said is interpreted in\Nthe most negative way possible. And so if
Dialogue: 0,0:21:41.33,0:21:45.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that is the root cause, then you just need\Nto build trust between these people and
Dialogue: 0,0:21:45.53,0:21:55.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that will solve most of the conflict. So\Nlet's do some practical tips for these
Dialogue: 0,0:21:55.44,0:22:01.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,individual talks. First of all, it needs\Nto happen in a neutral place. If you have
Dialogue: 0,0:22:01.55,0:22:07.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like a clubhouse or a place that you\Nfrequently gather, you can't do the
Dialogue: 0,0:22:07.41,0:22:13.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,private talks there. You need to do it\Nsomewhere else. It's better if the place
Dialogue: 0,0:22:13.49,0:22:21.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is public in the worst case for\Neverybody's safety, but also because
Dialogue: 0,0:22:21.74,0:22:30.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because it helps people have some level of\Ncontrol over their emotions. For example,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:30.60,0:22:36.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a local bar or a comic-cafe or a board\Ngame club is always very good. Find
Dialogue: 0,0:22:36.13,0:22:41.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,something that these people are\Ncomfortable with. Second of all, you
Dialogue: 0,0:22:41.90,0:22:49.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,always have to do these talks, either face\Nto face, away from keyboard or by using a
Dialogue: 0,0:22:49.10,0:22:55.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,good video chat solution, because body\Nlanguage and tone is incredibly important.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:55.40,0:22:59.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You need to be able to see each other. You\Nneed to be able to see each other, facial
Dialogue: 0,0:22:59.52,0:23:05.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,expressions, and you need to hear the tone\Nof each other's voice. And the quality
Dialogue: 0,0:23:05.14,0:23:09.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,needs to be good, first of all, in order\Nto have this extra channel of
Dialogue: 0,0:23:09.46,0:23:15.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,communication. And second of all, in order\Nto remove the frustration, because this
Dialogue: 0,0:23:15.02,0:23:20.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,kind of private talks can be very\Nfrustrating and can be very taxing both to
Dialogue: 0,0:23:20.98,0:23:24.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the person involved in the conflict and\Nthe person who wants to solve the
Dialogue: 0,0:23:24.46,0:23:32.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,conflict. And so having decent audio and\Nvideo make sure that removes that
Dialogue: 0,0:23:32.97,0:23:37.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,frustration. And so then you can focus on\Nthe frustration of the conversation
Dialogue: 0,0:23:37.95,0:23:43.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,itself. Third of all always take\Nnotes during this conversation. It helps
Dialogue: 0,0:23:43.66,0:23:47.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,build trust. It shows them that you are\Nactually taking what they are saying
Dialogue: 0,0:23:47.63,0:23:56.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,seriously and they can be very useful to\Nreflect on the conversation afterwards.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:56.46,0:24:03.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then you can initiate a private talk\Nsimply by being direct and authentic. Just
Dialogue: 0,0:24:03.01,0:24:08.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,say: "I'd like to talk to you in private\Nto understand this issue better". Things
Dialogue: 0,0:24:08.73,0:24:13.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like I'd like to help and I want to\Nunderstand your point of view. Those are
Dialogue: 0,0:24:13.90,0:24:19.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,very good things to say in order to\Ninitiate a conversation, make sure that
Dialogue: 0,0:24:19.03,0:24:28.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's very clear to them that you are there\Nto help them too. It's also important to be
Dialogue: 0,0:24:28.64,0:24:38.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,authentic and to be humble. Don't say\Nthings that you don't actually mean.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:38.88,0:24:45.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,However, you have to get into the\Nconversation with the mindset to listen,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:45.76,0:24:57.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the intention to listen. And so this\Nmight be, this can be a bit controversial,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:57.95,0:25:03.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like these two things might be against\Neach other because it's it's very hard
Dialogue: 0,0:25:03.42,0:25:09.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when you see a conflict to get into this\Nfirst conversation with the idea of I
Dialogue: 0,0:25:09.80,0:25:16.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,don't actually understand what a conflict\Nis about. But even if you think that you
Dialogue: 0,0:25:16.100,0:25:21.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,know what the conflict is about, very\Noften when you try to find the root cause
Dialogue: 0,0:25:21.65,0:25:26.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the conflict, you find out it is\Nactually something else that is different
Dialogue: 0,0:25:26.18,0:25:34.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from from what you told. And so be humble\Nabout your own knowledge about the
Dialogue: 0,0:25:34.41,0:25:44.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,conflict. Then the individual talks itself.\NFirst, it's very important to explain that
Dialogue: 0,0:25:44.41,0:25:52.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they are valued. Try to think about the\Nvaluable things that this person brings to
Dialogue: 0,0:25:52.06,0:25:57.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,your community or the valuable work that\Nthey are doing. And then second of all,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:57.21,0:26:03.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just ask them to explain their point of\Nview and listen, let them blow off steam
Dialogue: 0,0:26:03.34,0:26:09.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and start to build trust by showing them\Nthat you want to understand them by
Dialogue: 0,0:26:09.25,0:26:14.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,validating their feelings, but stay\Nauthentic and don't pick sides. It's very
Dialogue: 0,0:26:14.23,0:26:28.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,important not to pick sides. It's very\Nimportant not to pick sides because
Dialogue: 0,0:26:28.99,0:26:34.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,otherwise people will think that you are\Nnot neutral and it will be a lot harder to
Dialogue: 0,0:26:34.93,0:26:44.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,fix this conflict. Then towards the end of\Nthe conversation, trying to find the
Dialogue: 0,0:26:44.43,0:26:51.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,actual root causes of the conflict and\Nsummarize that. Summarize them verbally
Dialogue: 0,0:26:51.24,0:26:58.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and try to write them down and ask the\Nother person's opinion about, do you agree
Dialogue: 0,0:26:58.49,0:27:06.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that that this is the root cause and this\Nreally requires digging deeper? I
Dialogue: 0,0:27:06.44,0:27:12.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,explained the example before where a lot\Nof times when somebody doesn't trust
Dialogue: 0,0:27:12.24,0:27:21.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,somebody else, they will start to\Ninterpret any communication in the worst
Dialogue: 0,0:27:21.31,0:27:26.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,way possible. And so in order to figure\Nout how to dig deeper, to figure out if
Dialogue: 0,0:27:26.70,0:27:31.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this is the cause, you can ask, like if your\Nfriend would say the exact same thing,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:31.77,0:27:39.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would you have the same reaction? Most of\Nthe time the people answer: "no, no". And
Dialogue: 0,0:27:39.36,0:27:47.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if I would think maybe I misunderstood it\Nbecause this is my friends, they don't
Dialogue: 0,0:27:47.24,0:27:54.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,want to say something so negative about\Nme. Then this point is optional, but it
Dialogue: 0,0:27:54.90,0:28:00.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,can be useful to explain other people's\Nviews if you already have some idea of
Dialogue: 0,0:28:00.75,0:28:12.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,other people's views, it can be can be\Nuseful to also discuss this in this first
Dialogue: 0,0:28:12.30,0:28:18.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,initial conversation, and especially\Nexplain your views like this conflict is
Dialogue: 0,0:28:18.64,0:28:25.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,dragging our community down. This is the\Nreason why I want to solve this conflict.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:25.23,0:28:30.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And finally, ask them how they think it\Ncould be solved. Sometimes these are
Dialogue: 0,0:28:30.48,0:28:36.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,completely ridiculous ideas, but sometimes\Nthey also have some very good ideas about
Dialogue: 0,0:28:36.39,0:28:45.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how the conflict could be solved. The\Nsecond step in this in the private talk
Dialogue: 0,0:28:45.14,0:28:52.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,pattern is the discussion of the two\Nparties together and never do a group
Dialogue: 0,0:28:52.61,0:29:01.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,discussion. I would try to always do it\Nwith two people. And the goal of this
Dialogue: 0,0:29:01.34,0:29:08.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,discussion is to get these people talking\Nto each other, because a lot of the times,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:08.77,0:29:15.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a lot of conflict is created by people not\Ncommunicating properly with each other.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:15.08,0:29:19.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that at a certain point, the\Ncommunication just stops completely, and
Dialogue: 0,0:29:19.90,0:29:26.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's the point where stuff starts to\Nexplode. The second goal is to work
Dialogue: 0,0:29:26.86,0:29:31.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,towards understanding each other's\Nviewpoints, but this requires people to
Dialogue: 0,0:29:31.63,0:29:36.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,actually talk to each other. And then the\Nthird goal is to define concrete steps to
Dialogue: 0,0:29:36.100,0:29:41.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,solve the issue. It's very important that\Nthese steps are concrete so that you can
Dialogue: 0,0:29:41.43,0:29:50.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,later coach them and see if these steps\Nare being followed. So the setup of the
Dialogue: 0,0:29:50.40,0:29:55.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,discussion is the same as the setup of the\Nindividual talks, which the distinction
Dialogue: 0,0:29:55.19,0:29:59.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that it's very important to be the first\Nperson there. If it's in real life
Dialogue: 0,0:29:59.86,0:30:06.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,location, come there 30 minutes beforehand\Nor come their on time, depending on if
Dialogue: 0,0:30:06.100,0:30:15.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's common in your culture to be on time\Nor not, or if it's an online video call,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:15.01,0:30:19.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,make sure you're the first person that\Ninitiates the call. Because if these two
Dialogue: 0,0:30:19.97,0:30:28.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people are there without you, it will\Nbecome very awkward. Then the course of
Dialogue: 0,0:30:28.20,0:30:33.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the discussion. The first thing you need\Nto do in this discussion is to explain the
Dialogue: 0,0:30:33.61,0:30:40.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,root cause and then discuss and write down\Nconcrete steps to fix the conflict. They
Dialogue: 0,0:30:40.29,0:30:45.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,need to be concrete because you need to be\Nable to track progress and and every party
Dialogue: 0,0:30:45.40,0:30:55.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,needs to be. There can be no confusion\Nabout whether or not there is progress. If
Dialogue: 0,0:30:55.82,0:31:01.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,those steps are not concrete enough, then\Nyou can start to start to have a
Dialogue: 0,0:31:01.28,0:31:05.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,discussion about whether or not there is\Nactual progress about whether or not the
Dialogue: 0,0:31:05.60,0:31:09.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,steps are being followed. If they are\Nconcrete enough, then there's no
Dialogue: 0,0:31:09.29,0:31:18.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,discussion. A bad kind of concrete step is\Nkeep the desk smartly clean desks in
Dialogue: 0,0:31:18.30,0:31:23.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,hackerspaces, specifically clean desks are\Noften an issue. But one of the big issues
Dialogue: 0,0:31:23.89,0:31:29.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that people's ideas and people's\Nexpectations of how clean the desk should
Dialogue: 0,0:31:29.31,0:31:36.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,be are very different. And so keep the\Ndesks more clean. Will will mean different
Dialogue: 0,0:31:36.16,0:31:42.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,things to different people. So make it\Nconcrete. For example, clean does desk
Dialogue: 0,0:31:42.18,0:31:53.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,completely every time you leave the space.\NThis step is something that might be
Dialogue: 0,0:31:53.77,0:32:02.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,overshooting. So in hackerspaces, for\Nexample, it's often allowed to have some
Dialogue: 0,0:32:02.11,0:32:08.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,clutter on the desk if you're working on a\Nlong term project, but there are always
Dialogue: 0,0:32:08.16,0:32:17.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people who have who succeed that limit,\Nwho have who leave way too much clutter on
Dialogue: 0,0:32:17.62,0:32:25.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,desks and who take up all the desks in the\Nentire space and having a clean desk,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:25.14,0:32:29.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,having them clean the desk completely\Nevery time they leave the space is
Dialogue: 0,0:32:29.41,0:32:40.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,something that is like an overshoot. It is\Ntoo clean. Then what do we actually want
Dialogue: 0,0:32:40.06,0:32:46.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as a space. But it is that way because\Nthat makes it much, much easier to track
Dialogue: 0,0:32:46.40,0:32:51.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,progress that make it makes it much more\Nconcrete. If they are out of the space and
Dialogue: 0,0:32:51.01,0:32:57.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the desk is still cluttered, then they\Ndidn't do it. Then they broke their
Dialogue: 0,0:32:57.17,0:33:04.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,promise. Another good step is when this\Nperson says something to me, and I think
Dialogue: 0,0:33:04.65,0:33:11.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's insulting. Talk to it, talk about it\Nto another person, and maybe the other
Dialogue: 0,0:33:11.85,0:33:20.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,person can translate what the person means\Nif during the discussion you see that the
Dialogue: 0,0:33:20.34,0:33:25.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,these people really start to communicate\Nvery well, then a step could be. But I
Dialogue: 0,0:33:25.64,0:33:31.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,think you are insulting me. I will say it\Nto you and then we can discuss it together
Dialogue: 0,0:33:31.13,0:33:35.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then we can clear it out that they\Ndon't actually mean it in an insulting
Dialogue: 0,0:33:35.31,0:33:43.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,way. Finally, understanding each other and\Nhaving that discussion and starting
Dialogue: 0,0:33:43.63,0:33:50.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,communication is often already a very big\Npart of the solution. So if you don't have
Dialogue: 0,0:33:50.13,0:33:54.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a lot of clear steps that might not be\Nsuch a big issue, because simply talking
Dialogue: 0,0:33:54.90,0:34:02.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to each other solves a lot of issues. I\Nthink 90 percent of all teen drama series
Dialogue: 0,0:34:02.22,0:34:08.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would be solved by just having the\Ncharacters talk to each other. And this is
Dialogue: 0,0:34:08.43,0:34:17.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sadly the case in real life too. So after\Ndiscussion, right down the concrete steps
Dialogue: 0,0:34:17.06,0:34:24.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that you agreed upon in a discussion and\Nsend it to everyone. Send it to everyone
Dialogue: 0,0:34:24.52,0:34:29.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,involved, then the short description of\Nthis was the core issue. This was the root
Dialogue: 0,0:34:29.55,0:34:34.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,cause of the conflict. And this is what we\Nare going to do to address it. Put it on
Dialogue: 0,0:34:34.27,0:34:39.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,paper, even though you don't have any\Nauthority, even though they don't have to
Dialogue: 0,0:34:39.79,0:34:45.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,follow it, simply having it written down\Nand having them agree upon it during the
Dialogue: 0,0:34:45.61,0:34:50.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,discussion will make it much more official\Nfor themselves. You don't need authority
Dialogue: 0,0:34:50.87,0:34:59.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for this. Second of all, it's very useful\Nto keep coaching and do the follow up.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:59.67,0:35:06.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Make sure that the conversation between\Nthese two people keeps going, otherwise
Dialogue: 0,0:35:06.19,0:35:11.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the anger and frustration will start to\Nget bottled up again and then at a certain
Dialogue: 0,0:35:11.83,0:35:16.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,point they will start to interpret all\Ncommunication again, very, very
Dialogue: 0,0:35:16.19,0:35:29.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,negatively. And then the conflict happens\Nagain. So the overall idea of the of the
Dialogue: 0,0:35:29.73,0:35:34.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,private talk pattern is that most\Ninterpersonal conflict is solved by
Dialogue: 0,0:35:34.21,0:35:40.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,talking to each other. However, emotions\Nmake that very, very hard because people
Dialogue: 0,0:35:40.65,0:35:45.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just stop talking to each other because\Nthey're afraid of the confrontation and
Dialogue: 0,0:35:45.41,0:35:51.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because when they talk to each other, the\Nemotions make stuff explode. And so first
Dialogue: 0,0:35:51.32,0:35:58.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you do the initial private talk where you\Nget out all the emotions and and and you
Dialogue: 0,0:35:58.21,0:36:02.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,make sure that people understand that\Nthat's you make it clear that you
Dialogue: 0,0:36:02.88,0:36:08.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,understand them and that you hear them.\NAnd then during the second talk, you get
Dialogue: 0,0:36:08.13,0:36:17.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,these people together and you get them to\Ntalk to each other. A second smaller idea
Dialogue: 0,0:36:17.23,0:36:23.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the private talk pattern is that\Nconflict is extremely hard to solve in the
Dialogue: 0,0:36:23.58,0:36:31.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,group. During meetings, meetings are one\Nof the worst places to solve conflict at
Dialogue: 0,0:36:31.88,0:36:41.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,having private personal talks is much,\Nmuch better than doing it in the group. So
Dialogue: 0,0:36:41.63,0:36:45.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I have to add a disclaimer to this. I\Nstarted the talk by saying most people are
Dialogue: 0,0:36:45.99,0:36:53.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,good. Well, some people are bad. If\Npeople have genuine malicious intent or
Dialogue: 0,0:36:53.15,0:37:00.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,inherently incompatible with your\Ncommunity, you have to kick them out. The
Dialogue: 0,0:37:00.31,0:37:06.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,private talk pattern will make it very\Nclear who is like this, the private, after
Dialogue: 0,0:37:06.89,0:37:11.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,going through this entire process, it will\Nbe clear whether or not these people
Dialogue: 0,0:37:11.22,0:37:16.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,actually have genuine malicious intentions\Nor whether these people are inherently
Dialogue: 0,0:37:16.60,0:37:22.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,incompatible. If it's the case, kick them\Nout. But again, you're not kicking them
Dialogue: 0,0:37:22.08,0:37:30.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,out to punish them. You're simply kicking\Nthem out to protect the community. Most
Dialogue: 0,0:37:30.77,0:37:36.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,times the community is the common of the\Norganization, you might have a certain
Dialogue: 0,0:37:36.59,0:37:41.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,goal, but you can only reach that goal\Nwhen you have a healthy community. And so
Dialogue: 0,0:37:41.88,0:37:47.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in order to protect this community, you\Nneed to make harsh decisions and kick
Dialogue: 0,0:37:47.58,0:37:55.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people out. Of course, given that these\Ncommunities are, for example, run on
Dialogue: 0,0:37:55.21,0:38:01.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,doocracy or run on consensus decision\Nmaking, you can't decide to kick them out
Dialogue: 0,0:38:01.26,0:38:12.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,yourselves. But use the processes that are\Nin your community to kick people out when
Dialogue: 0,0:38:12.17,0:38:22.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,after this process it's very, very clear\Nthat they're inherently incompatible. So
Dialogue: 0,0:38:22.80,0:38:30.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,thanks for listening to the talk, I hope\Nit was useful and I hope some people can
Dialogue: 0,0:38:30.22,0:38:40.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,solve some conflict in their communities.\NObviously, this entire talk was based on
Dialogue: 0,0:38:40.50,0:38:48.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,my own experience, which hackerspace Gent\Nin Belgium. And so your mileage may vary.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:48.99,0:38:53.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This worked for us. This worked very well\Nfor us. Every time we tried it, it
Dialogue: 0,0:38:53.50,0:39:02.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,actually worked. But tweak it, make it\Nyour own, make it so it works for your
Dialogue: 0,0:39:02.10,0:39:08.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,community.\NMy name is Merlijn Sebrechts. I'm from
Dialogue: 0,0:39:08.79,0:39:13.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,hackerspace Gent in Belgium. If you want\Nto know how to build a community of
Dialogue: 0,0:39:13.65,0:39:19.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,equals, go to hackerspace.design and read\Nthe hackerspace blueprint. And it also has
Dialogue: 0,0:39:19.95,0:39:28.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,links to other talks I did about doocracy.\NAnd then finally, this talk was partly
Dialogue: 0,0:39:28.84,0:39:36.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,inspired by a video by Jono Bacon: "A new\Nway to look at conflict resolution." And
Dialogue: 0,0:39:36.34,0:39:45.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,surprisingly, I think a few months ago he\Nreleased that video and surprisingly, the
Dialogue: 0,0:39:45.22,0:39:51.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,process that he used in professional\Norganizations and companies to do conflict
Dialogue: 0,0:39:51.11,0:39:58.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,resolution looks a lot like the private\Ntalk pattern. Jono Bacon was the former
Dialogue: 0,0:39:58.69,0:40:05.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,community manager of the Ubuntu Linux\Nproject. And so he's a very experienced
Dialogue: 0,0:40:05.00,0:40:12.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,person and knows a lot about how to build\Ncommunities. So if there are any
Dialogue: 0,0:40:12.86,0:40:18.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,questions, let's hear it on.\NHerald: OK, thank you for your talk. There
Dialogue: 0,0:40:18.68,0:40:24.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are indeed many questions, and the first\Nis you've mentioned repeatedly that this
Dialogue: 0,0:40:24.16,0:40:29.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is, of course, based on your own personal\Nexperience. But, what do you think that
Dialogue: 0,0:40:29.40,0:40:33.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this model of something like it could also\Nwork on a larger level, on a perhaps
Dialogue: 0,0:40:33.98,0:40:46.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,regional or even super regional scale?\NMerlijn Sebrechts: Are you ... I am I'm
Dialogue: 0,0:40:46.06,0:40:52.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,going to interpret that question as like\Nhaving having different countries solving
Dialogue: 0,0:40:52.04,0:41:03.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,conflict between different countries. I'm\Nnot sure. I'm not sure because this matter
Dialogue: 0,0:41:03.18,0:41:07.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to specifically for interpersonal\Nconflict, conflict between different
Dialogue: 0,0:41:07.66,0:41:19.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people, although the idea of finding the\Nroot cause is still very useful. I'm not
Dialogue: 0,0:41:19.16,0:41:28.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sure if it's possible because you can't\Ntalk to a country as an individual. The
Dialogue: 0,0:41:28.21,0:41:33.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,country is composed of many different\Npeople, and so it is the total behavior of
Dialogue: 0,0:41:33.91,0:41:42.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this country is some emerges from the\Nbehavior of all the individuals. And it's
Dialogue: 0,0:41:42.96,0:41:46.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,very, very hard to find a single\Nindividual that you can talk to that
Dialogue: 0,0:41:46.58,0:41:51.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,represents this total group.\NHerald: I'm not sure if the question was
Dialogue: 0,0:41:51.67,0:41:57.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,actually meant that way. If it wasn't,\Nplease write it again in the chat and I'll
Dialogue: 0,0:41:57.20,0:42:02.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ask it again in a more specific way. And\Nthe next question is, what if we don't
Dialogue: 0,0:42:02.50,0:42:11.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have a common basis for such a system\Nanymore and we cannot start with personal
Dialogue: 0,0:42:11.52,0:42:15.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,conversations anymore? Because just\Nletting things implode and then start
Dialogue: 0,0:42:15.92,0:42:20.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,rebuilding everything from scratch is\Nprobably usually not an option. So would
Dialogue: 0,0:42:20.29,0:42:24.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you have any ideas on\Nhow one could proceed then?
Dialogue: 0,0:42:24.50,0:42:34.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Merlijn Sebrechts: I'm also not a big fan\Nof starting completely new. What we did is
Dialogue: 0,0:42:34.22,0:42:41.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we actually didn't start from zero.\NWe during the hackerspace workshops, we
Dialogue: 0,0:42:41.03,0:42:47.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,started from the the system that we had\Nand we started to think about what do we
Dialogue: 0,0:42:47.85,0:42:51.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like about the current system and what do\Nwe dislike about the current system. And
Dialogue: 0,0:42:51.86,0:42:57.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we started to gradually change it. And\Nthroughout the years with gradual changes
Dialogue: 0,0:42:57.46,0:43:04.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and by keep having these having the\Nhackerspace workshops every single time,
Dialogue: 0,0:43:04.17,0:43:09.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we encountered issues, we were able to\Ngradually change and improve our
Dialogue: 0,0:43:09.82,0:43:17.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,community. So even though, like the big\Nimplosion happened in 2014, the big
Dialogue: 0,0:43:17.37,0:43:22.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,resurgence didn't happen at once. It\Nhappened over the course of a few years
Dialogue: 0,0:43:22.96,0:43:28.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it happened by slightly improving it\Nand slightly changing the system every
Dialogue: 0,0:43:28.22,0:43:34.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,every year and took a very long time in\Norder to to make that complete change. So
Dialogue: 0,0:43:34.83,0:43:43.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I would my concrete advice is to start\Ndoing workshops in order to fix the
Dialogue: 0,0:43:43.54,0:43:47.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,system, in order to fix your community,\Nstart doing workshops and see what comes
Dialogue: 0,0:43:47.91,0:43:53.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,out of those workshops.\NHerald: OK, so at least hope is not lost,
Dialogue: 0,0:43:53.29,0:43:59.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I guess, even if it can be difficult. And\Nthen the next question is, isn't it a
Dialogue: 0,0:43:59.28,0:44:03.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,problem that you mentioned always\Nidentifying a root cause of a problem?
Dialogue: 0,0:44:03.95,0:44:08.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What do you do if the cause of a root\Nproblem is somehow subjective and cannot
Dialogue: 0,0:44:08.62,0:44:16.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,be agreed upon? What should one do then?\NMerlijn Sebrechts: I think there always
Dialogue: 0,0:44:16.40,0:44:22.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,needs to be some common base. And in our\Nhackerspace, the common base is that the
Dialogue: 0,0:44:22.89,0:44:28.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,hackerspace itself and the hackerspace\Ncommunity is the thing that we need to
Dialogue: 0,0:44:28.39,0:44:37.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,protect. And so if there is ambiguity of\Nthe cause, the cause of the conflict and
Dialogue: 0,0:44:37.29,0:44:42.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we simply start to look at what behavior\Nis advantageous to our hackerspace and
Dialogue: 0,0:44:42.72,0:44:48.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what behavior isn't. And we use that as\Nthe common ground and we start to build
Dialogue: 0,0:44:48.69,0:44:58.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from there depending on what the goal is\Nof your community. The common base will be
Dialogue: 0,0:44:58.11,0:45:03.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,different, but I think in every community\Nthere will be this common base, even if
Dialogue: 0,0:45:03.77,0:45:09.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the common base is simply that it's the\Nexistence of the community is the thing
Dialogue: 0,0:45:09.00,0:45:13.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that everybody wants.\NHerald: OK, then, thank you again for your
Dialogue: 0,0:45:13.03,0:45:16.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,great talk. There is one last question,\Nwhich is someone wanting to see the cat
Dialogue: 0,0:45:16.87,0:45:19.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,again.\NMerlijn Sebrechts: The what?
Dialogue: 0,0:45:19.76,0:45:24.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Herald: The cat.\NMerlijn Sebrechts: They're sadly not
Dialogue: 0,0:45:24.51,0:45:32.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,anymore. It seems they've gone downstairs.\NHerald: OK. That's all we have is the
Dialogue: 0,0:45:32.18,0:45:39.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,waving cat in my screen, which is. We'll\Nhave to make do. OK, thank you for your
Dialogue: 0,0:45:39.34,0:45:45.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,talk and, have fun at the remote chaos\Nexperience alone and everyone watching
Dialogue: 0,0:45:45.23,0:45:52.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this. Of course, this was our last talk\Nfor today. We'll see you again tomorrow.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:52.16,0:45:56.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Until then. And happy hacking.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:56.15,0:46:02.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}postroll music{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:46:02.19,0:46:23.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Subtitles created by c3subtitles.de\Nin the year 2021. Join, and help us!