[Script Info]
Title: 
[Events]
Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,0:00:03.28,0:00:04.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My name's Craig Forcese
Dialogue: 0,0:00:04.75,0:00:07.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm a professor of law \Nat the University of Ottawa
Dialogue: 0,0:00:07.58,0:00:09.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where I teach among other things
Dialogue: 0,0:00:09.92,0:00:12.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,national security law.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:12.28,0:00:14.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Professor Kent Roach \Nof the University of Toronto and I
Dialogue: 0,0:00:14.95,0:00:16.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have been conducting what we call
Dialogue: 0,0:00:16.84,0:00:22.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,real-time academic \Nlegal analysis of Bill [C-51],
Dialogue: 0,0:00:22.28,0:00:25.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the government's anti-terrorism law.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:25.18,0:00:29.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You'll find our analysis and related commentary \Narchived on our special website.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:29.59,0:00:31.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,www.antiterrorlaw.ca
Dialogue: 0,0:00:31.34,0:00:35.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I've prepared 2 video explainers\Non Bill C-51.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:35.81,0:00:38.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This video is the short one,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:38.10,0:00:41.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,designed for people who are mostly familiar\Nwith the bills' features,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:41.20,0:00:46.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and who are looking for a means of \Nnavigating its various moving parts.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:46.81,0:00:49.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In the longer video, \NI provide the same navigational help,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:49.88,0:00:55.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but also amplify with more \Nabout what the bill does that is troubling.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:55.58,0:00:58.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So let me begin with a circle.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:59.79,0:01:02.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Within this circle is a universe of behaviour.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:02.75,0:01:04.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Behaviour by people.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:04.29,0:01:05.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Not all behaviour.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:05.92,0:01:07.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A certain sort of behaviour.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:07.95,0:01:09.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is behaviour that -
Dialogue: 0,0:01:09.26,0:01:12.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the words of part of Bill C-51 -
Dialogue: 0,0:01:12.40,0:01:15.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"undermines the security of Canada".
Dialogue: 0,0:01:15.15,0:01:16.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This part of the bill
Dialogue: 0,0:01:16.99,0:01:19.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,authorizes information sharing
Dialogue: 0,0:01:19.12,0:01:22.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,within and potentially outside government,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:22.85,0:01:25.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and is concerned with any activity undermining
Dialogue: 0,0:01:25.39,0:01:26.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-whatever that means-
Dialogue: 0,0:01:26.99,0:01:30.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the lives and security of the Canadian people
Dialogue: 0,0:01:30.06,0:01:34.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the sovereignty, security \Nor territorial integrity of Canada.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:34.75,0:01:36.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The things that fall into this category
Dialogue: 0,0:01:36.76,0:01:38.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and thus into the circle,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:38.36,0:01:40.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are vast in number.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:40.32,0:01:42.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But the bill says they include activities
Dialogue: 0,0:01:42.42,0:01:46.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,aimed at changing or "unduly influencing"
Dialogue: 0,0:01:46.15,0:01:47.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-whatever that means-
Dialogue: 0,0:01:47.55,0:01:51.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,any Canadian government by unlawful means.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:51.59,0:01:55.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I will come back to this concept \Nof "unlawful" in a second.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:55.82,0:01:58.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The bill also names activities in Canada
Dialogue: 0,0:01:58.15,0:02:02.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that undermine the security of \Nanother state, any state.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:02.71,0:02:05.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So that would include repressive ones.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:05.28,0:02:10.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It names activities that interfere with \Ncritical infrastructure. Any interference.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:10.71,0:02:14.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Also included are any threats \Nto Canada's territorial integrity.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:14.94,0:02:18.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, presumptively, sovereignty groups.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:18.54,0:02:22.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My key point on this definition is this:
Dialogue: 0,0:02:22.27,0:02:24.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is a law of behaviour,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:24.57,0:02:28.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,including behaviour we generally accept \Nin a democratic society,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:28.34,0:02:32.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even if it may annoy us or we may dislike it.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:32.34,0:02:34.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But there is a safeguard.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:34.04,0:02:36.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This concept of undermining security
Dialogue: 0,0:02:36.11,0:02:41.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,does not reach lawful protest, \Nadvocacy or artistic expression.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:41.91,0:02:45.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So this line bisecting the circle
Dialogue: 0,0:02:45.20,0:02:48.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is what I shall call the line of lawfulness.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:48.77,0:02:50.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,On the left hand side of the line
Dialogue: 0,0:02:50.67,0:02:53.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,your behaviour is perfectly lawful,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:53.11,0:02:58.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you are not captured by any feature of Bill C-51.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:58.01,0:03:01.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But pause here on what is required to be lawful.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:01.50,0:03:03.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,By lawful I mean just that.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:03.94,0:03:05.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You comply with all laws.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:05.77,0:03:10.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Municipal, regulatory, provincial, \Nfederal, criminal and non criminal.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:10.57,0:03:12.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you participate in a street protest
Dialogue: 0,0:03:12.44,0:03:13.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,without a municipal permit
Dialogue: 0,0:03:13.95,0:03:15.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it is unlawful.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:15.75,0:03:17.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you participate in a wildcat strike
Dialogue: 0,0:03:17.85,0:03:20.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it is unlawful.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:20.35,0:03:22.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The list of examples of potential unlawfulness
Dialogue: 0,0:03:22.94,0:03:25.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,could go on for some time.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:25.55,0:03:27.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you do any of this
Dialogue: 0,0:03:27.48,0:03:32.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you are on the right hand side \Nof the lawful line in my circle.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:32.18,0:03:33.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so you are now in the universe
Dialogue: 0,0:03:33.78,0:03:35.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in which C-51
Dialogue: 0,0:03:35.60,0:03:38.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,could begin to apply to your behaviour.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:38.81,0:03:42.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Under the law that creates this \Nundermining security of Canada concept,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:42.88,0:03:44.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the government may share between
Dialogue: 0,0:03:44.76,0:03:47.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,17 different agencies and maybe more
Dialogue: 0,0:03:47.71,0:03:50.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,information about your conduct.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:51.81,0:03:54.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now we drill down a bit to another circle.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:54.96,0:03:56.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So within this circle
Dialogue: 0,0:03:56.63,0:04:03.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we include matters that could be more pernicious.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:03.29,0:04:07.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is a subset of all the things that \N"undermine the security of Canada".
Dialogue: 0,0:04:07.46,0:04:09.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Here in this second circle
Dialogue: 0,0:04:09.73,0:04:12.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we are talking about state powers
Dialogue: 0,0:04:12.26,0:04:15.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that go well beyond information sharing.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:15.84,0:04:18.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In this second circle I am focusing on behaviour
Dialogue: 0,0:04:18.72,0:04:22.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that CSIS is able to investigate under its current law.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:22.72,0:04:25.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,CSIS is the Canadian Security Intelligence Service.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:25.92,0:04:28.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is designed, at present,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:28.09,0:04:31.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as an intelligence gathering operation.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:31.26,0:04:34.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Its mandate is tied to something called
Dialogue: 0,0:04:34.35,0:04:37.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"threats to the security of Canada",
Dialogue: 0,0:04:37.36,0:04:40.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a defined term found in its own statute.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:40.96,0:04:43.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The concept of threats to the security of Canada
Dialogue: 0,0:04:43.19,0:04:44.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,includes a lot of things
Dialogue: 0,0:04:44.82,0:04:46.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that people would mostly all agree
Dialogue: 0,0:04:46.49,0:04:48.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,should be investigated:
Dialogue: 0,0:04:48.40,0:04:53.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,espionage and sabotage, political violence \Nand terrorism, violent subversion.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:53.55,0:04:57.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Violence of some sort is at the core \Nof each of these three items.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:57.88,0:04:59.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But note two things:
Dialogue: 0,0:04:59.100,0:05:03.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,First, this definition in the CSIS Act
Dialogue: 0,0:05:03.62,0:05:07.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,isn't and never has been just about terrorism.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:07.29,0:05:11.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And second, this definition \Nalso includes a fourth threat:
Dialogue: 0,0:05:11.34,0:05:14.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so-called foreign influenced activities.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:14.59,0:05:16.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so CSIS may investigate
Dialogue: 0,0:05:16.18,0:05:17.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,foreign influenced activities
Dialogue: 0,0:05:17.98,0:05:20.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that are clandestine, and viewed by the government
Dialogue: 0,0:05:20.95,0:05:24.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as detrimental to the interests of Canada.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:24.75,0:05:27.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,CSIS' review body, SIRC \N[Security Intelligence Review Committee],
Dialogue: 0,0:05:27.68,0:05:30.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was very unhappy with this concept in 1989
Dialogue: 0,0:05:30.28,0:05:31.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when it reviewed the CSIS act
Dialogue: 0,0:05:31.82,0:05:35.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and made recommendations \Nfor that act's amendment.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:35.44,0:05:37.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The definition of foreign influenced activities
Dialogue: 0,0:05:37.58,0:05:41.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,contains too much eye-of-the-beholder ambiguity.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:41.62,0:05:43.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,SIRC critiqued this ambiguity,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:43.85,0:05:45.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,especially the use of "clandestine",
Dialogue: 0,0:05:45.52,0:05:48.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which means really, simply "secret".
Dialogue: 0,0:05:48.45,0:05:50.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And "detrimental to the interests of Canada"
Dialogue: 0,0:05:50.18,0:05:52.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was also critiqued.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:52.05,0:05:53.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Detrimental to the interests of Canada"
Dialogue: 0,0:05:53.68,0:05:56.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is whatever the government says it is.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:56.31,0:06:00.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you apply this ambiguity \Nto democratic protest movements,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:00.18,0:06:03.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it is possible that the threats definition
Dialogue: 0,0:06:03.05,0:06:05.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,covers this sort of scenario:
Dialogue: 0,0:06:05.72,0:06:07.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A foreign environmental foundation
Dialogue: 0,0:06:07.88,0:06:11.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,funding a Canadian environmental groups' \Nsecret efforts
Dialogue: 0,0:06:11.08,0:06:13.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to plan a protest done without proper permits
Dialogue: 0,0:06:13.98,0:06:16.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in opposition to the Keystone pipeline project;
Dialogue: 0,0:06:16.88,0:06:18.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a project that the government of Canada sees
Dialogue: 0,0:06:18.88,0:06:23.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as a priority and strongly in the interests of Canada.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:23.15,0:06:25.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Note the reference to "without permits".
Dialogue: 0,0:06:25.98,0:06:27.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is added because
Dialogue: 0,0:06:27.32,0:06:32.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-like the "undermine" definition \Nthat I started this discussion with-
Dialogue: 0,0:06:32.18,0:06:34.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the CSIS "threats" definition
Dialogue: 0,0:06:34.15,0:06:37.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,includes an exception for lawful activities.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:37.25,0:06:38.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And remember what "lawful" means.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:38.68,0:06:40.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It means fully compliant with the law;
Dialogue: 0,0:06:40.35,0:06:43.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and more than simply compliance \Nwith the criminal law.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:43.09,0:06:47.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It means full compliance with \Nregulatory and municipal rules and labour law,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:47.49,0:06:49.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,including in relation to strikes.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:49.48,0:06:51.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So no wildcat strikes.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:51.32,0:06:55.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Or protests. No protests without city permits.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:55.22,0:06:59.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So what does Bill C-51 change for CSIS?
Dialogue: 0,0:07:00.21,0:07:03.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, it doesn't change this "threat" concept.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:03.10,0:07:06.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The circle doesn't get any bigger or smaller.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:06.40,0:07:11.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What it does change is what CSIS can do \Nin that circle.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:11.16,0:07:13.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Up to now it can only spy.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:13.48,0:07:15.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,After C-51 it will be empowered
Dialogue: 0,0:07:15.78,0:07:18.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to take measures reducing the threat,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:18.66,0:07:20.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what the government calls "disruption",
Dialogue: 0,0:07:20.79,0:07:24.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and a power that Kent Roach and I \Nhave called "kinetic",
Dialogue: 0,0:07:24.26,0:07:26.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that is, the power to do things to people and things
Dialogue: 0,0:07:26.50,0:07:28.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the real world.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:28.36,0:07:30.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Again, remember,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:30.50,0:07:33.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,these are powers that will apply \Nto all of CSIS' mandate,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:33.66,0:07:36.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not just its counter-terrorism activities.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:36.65,0:07:37.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I underscore again
Dialogue: 0,0:07:37.79,0:07:43.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the extent to which C-51 \Nis about more than counter-terrorism.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:43.06,0:07:44.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So what are the safeguards
Dialogue: 0,0:07:44.92,0:07:47.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on this power of disruption?
Dialogue: 0,0:07:47.59,0:07:49.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well the bill would prohibit CSIS
Dialogue: 0,0:07:49.34,0:07:51.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from inflicting bodily harm,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:51.21,0:07:53.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that is, physical or psychological injury;
Dialogue: 0,0:07:53.60,0:07:57.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,obstructing justice, that is, interfering \Nwith court proceedings for instance.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:57.48,0:08:00.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Or violating sexual integrity.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:00.27,0:08:02.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Anything else is permissible
Dialogue: 0,0:08:02.20,0:08:06.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so long as reasonable and proportional \Nin the circumstances.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:06.78,0:08:10.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But what about judicial oversight and warrants?
Dialogue: 0,0:08:10.20,0:08:13.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well there has been some confusion \Nin the discussion of this.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:13.58,0:08:15.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,First point:
Dialogue: 0,0:08:15.34,0:08:17.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,CSIS will need to get a warrant
Dialogue: 0,0:08:17.04,0:08:18.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for its kinetic activities
Dialogue: 0,0:08:18.46,0:08:21.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where that conduct violates a law
Dialogue: 0,0:08:21.81,0:08:25.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or any of the rights \Nin the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:25.37,0:08:27.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Up to that point,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:27.15,0:08:29.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,up to the point where the law is violated
Dialogue: 0,0:08:29.54,0:08:31.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or the Charter is violated,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:31.11,0:08:33.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there is no requirement for a warrant.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:33.84,0:08:36.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So let's say CSIS wanted to do something
Dialogue: 0,0:08:36.30,0:08:39.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that had the effect of limiting one's ability to speak.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:39.18,0:08:42.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Perhaps as simple as wrecking \Ntheir internet connection.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:42.24,0:08:44.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Or perhaps CSIS does something
Dialogue: 0,0:08:44.64,0:08:47.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that hinders a citizen's ability to return to Canada.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:47.51,0:08:49.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Those would be Charter breaches,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:49.48,0:08:51.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and so CSIS would need a warrant.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:51.74,0:08:53.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that might sound OK to people,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:53.88,0:08:56.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but it is a radical concept.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:56.43,0:08:59.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,CSIS may come to judges asking them
Dialogue: 0,0:08:59.17,0:09:01.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to bless in advance constitutional breaches.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:01.84,0:09:04.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The proceeding will be secret.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:04.10,0:09:05.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Only the government will be represented.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:05.83,0:09:07.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is no appeal mechanism.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:07.30,0:09:08.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The person affected will not know about it.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:08.97,0:09:11.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They may never know who caused the problems
Dialogue: 0,0:09:11.30,0:09:13.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that they then would encounter.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:13.73,0:09:16.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's because the whole thing is covert.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:16.96,0:09:19.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We just have never seen anything like this
Dialogue: 0,0:09:19.02,0:09:21.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in Canada before.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:21.67,0:09:23.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Personally, I would expect judges
Dialogue: 0,0:09:23.26,0:09:25.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to consider all this unconstitutional,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:25.63,0:09:29.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that they could never let CSIS \Nbreach the Constitution.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:29.54,0:09:30.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But you and I may never know
Dialogue: 0,0:09:30.86,0:09:32.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because as I've said,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:32.33,0:09:33.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this legal question will likely
Dialogue: 0,0:09:33.56,0:09:38.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,be decided as part of secret proceedings.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:38.19,0:09:40.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OK. Now it's time to drill down even further,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:40.76,0:09:42.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to another circle.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:42.28,0:09:43.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This one is even smaller.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:43.100,0:09:46.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is the actual crime circle.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:46.92,0:09:49.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So this circle covers all the bahaviour
Dialogue: 0,0:09:49.52,0:09:52.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that not only would undermine \Nthe security of Canada
Dialogue: 0,0:09:52.16,0:09:58.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as defined in that information sharing \Nstatute in Bill [C-51],
Dialogue: 0,0:09:58.39,0:10:01.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not only would it be a threat to \Nthe security of Canada
Dialogue: 0,0:10:01.42,0:10:03.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as defined in the CSIS Act,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:03.10,0:10:05.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but it would also be criminal.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:05.41,0:10:07.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Lots of crimes possibly fall in this circle,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:07.91,0:10:09.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but among them would definitely be
Dialogue: 0,0:10:09.84,0:10:12.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the terrorism offenses in the Criminal Code.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:12.87,0:10:18.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The Criminal Code has \Na very precise definition of terrorist activity.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:18.74,0:10:21.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Boiled to it's essence, it means basically
Dialogue: 0,0:10:21.78,0:10:25.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,violent conduct done for political, \Nreligious or ideological reasons,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:25.57,0:10:29.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for the purpose of compelling or intimidating \Na government or person
Dialogue: 0,0:10:29.31,0:10:32.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to do or refrain from doing something.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:32.70,0:10:35.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Bill C-51 does not change any of this.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:35.73,0:10:39.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It does not expand the definition of terrorist activity.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:39.34,0:10:40.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What it does instead
Dialogue: 0,0:10:40.80,0:10:44.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is create a new speech crime tied to this definition.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:44.61,0:10:46.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The government wants to jail people
Dialogue: 0,0:10:46.37,0:10:49.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who by speaking, writing, recording, gesturing,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:49.16,0:10:51.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or through other visible representations
Dialogue: 0,0:10:51.15,0:10:54.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,knowingly advocate or promote the commission \Nof terrorism offenses in general,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:54.84,0:10:59.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,while aware of the possibility \Nthat the offenses may be committed.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:59.07,0:11:00.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Did you understand that?
Dialogue: 0,0:11:00.87,0:11:03.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Roach and I tried to explain it in 10,000 words
Dialogue: 0,0:11:03.54,0:11:05.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we still aren't sure what it means.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:05.87,0:11:08.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This offense raises many serious issues
Dialogue: 0,0:11:08.04,0:11:11.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and should at best be considered \Nextremely concerning.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:11.07,0:11:13.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The scope of the new offense is not clear,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:13.36,0:11:14.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the offense is sweeping
Dialogue: 0,0:11:14.86,0:11:17.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the amount of speech it captures.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:17.26,0:11:19.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Including speech potentially far far removed
Dialogue: 0,0:11:19.89,0:11:22.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from actual violence.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:22.82,0:11:26.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I want to talk about one final feature now of C-51.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:26.22,0:11:29.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The concept of preventive detention \Nand peace bonds.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:29.12,0:11:30.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What are these?
Dialogue: 0,0:11:30.95,0:11:33.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, these are tools the police can use
Dialogue: 0,0:11:33.92,0:11:38.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to deal with people who they fear, are, \Nor may be implicated in terrorist activity,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:38.60,0:11:42.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but for whom they don't have enough \Nto actually bring criminal charges.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:42.48,0:11:45.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so, these tools enable police to act,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:45.67,0:11:47.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and go after people,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:47.13,0:11:50.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,within this zone that I've demarcated on the diagram,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:50.83,0:11:53.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a little further out from actual crime.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:54.77,0:11:56.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,With peace bonds,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:56.11,0:11:58.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the police will be allowed to limit \Nthe liberty of someone
Dialogue: 0,0:11:58.52,0:12:04.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if they have reason to believe he or she [etc] might \Nbe about to commit a terrorism related crime.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:04.66,0:12:07.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,With the so-called preventive detention provisions,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:07.12,0:12:08.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they could hold such a person
Dialogue: 0,0:12:08.96,0:12:11.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and detain him or her [etc] briefly, right now,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:11.70,0:12:14.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for a maximum of 72 hours,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:14.03,0:12:17.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,supervised by judicial order.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:17.90,0:12:20.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Neither of these tools are new.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:20.40,0:12:22.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But preventive detention has never been used,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:22.63,0:12:26.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and peace bonds have been used only 6 times.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:26.44,0:12:29.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What C-51 does is make it easier to use these tools.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:29.96,0:12:31.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They can be triggered sooner,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:31.36,0:12:34.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when the police are even less certain \Nsomeone is dangerous.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:34.50,0:12:40.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And preventive detention goes from \Na maximum of 72 hours, to 7 days.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:40.59,0:12:42.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Roach and I can imagine circumstances
Dialogue: 0,0:12:42.50,0:12:45.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in which such provisions become a necessary evil;
Dialogue: 0,0:12:45.73,0:12:48.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but we believe that this necessary evil
Dialogue: 0,0:12:48.13,0:12:50.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,needs to be closely scrutinized,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:50.45,0:12:52.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and carefully constrained.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:52.94,0:12:55.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We will have suggestions on this front.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:55.96,0:12:57.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is, however, one core virtue
Dialogue: 0,0:12:57.89,0:13:03.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to this regime, as compared \Nto the CSIS powers that I've described.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:03.76,0:13:06.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,All of this preventive detention \Nand peace bond activity
Dialogue: 0,0:13:06.59,0:13:08.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,will be done in open court,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:08.79,0:13:10.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and with reference to terrorist offences that
Dialogue: 0,0:13:10.89,0:13:12.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,-whatever their breadth-
Dialogue: 0,0:13:12.19,0:13:16.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,do not reach as far as the CSIS circle does.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:16.96,0:13:18.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So there you have it.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:18.69,0:13:21.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Basically, C-51, not quite in a nutshell,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:21.86,0:13:23.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but as close as I can make it.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:23.93,0:13:25.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you want more details,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:25.49,0:13:27.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I will produce a lengthier video;
Dialogue: 0,0:13:27.90,0:13:32.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and see also our writing on\Nwww.antiterrorlaw.ca
Dialogue: 0,0:13:32.52,0:13:34.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you.