0:00:01.340,0:00:04.947 Chris Anderson: So this is an[br]interview with a difference, 0:00:04.947,0:00:09.015 on the basis that a picture[br]is worth a thousand words. 0:00:09.015,0:00:11.911 What I did was, I asked Bill and Melinda 0:00:11.911,0:00:14.118 to dig out from their archive 0:00:14.118,0:00:16.216 some images that would help explain 0:00:16.216,0:00:17.652 some of what they've done, 0:00:17.652,0:00:20.249 and do a few things that way. 0:00:20.249,0:00:23.980 So we're going to start here. 0:00:23.980,0:00:26.183 Melinda, when and where was this, 0:00:26.183,0:00:28.217 and who is that handsome man next to you? 0:00:28.217,0:00:30.226 Melinda Gates: With those big glasses, huh? 0:00:30.226,0:00:32.265 This is in Africa, our very first trip, 0:00:32.265,0:00:34.170 the first time either of us had ever been to Africa, 0:00:34.170,0:00:35.780 in the fall of 1993. 0:00:35.780,0:00:37.768 We were already engaged to be married. 0:00:37.768,0:00:39.474 We married a few months later, 0:00:39.474,0:00:41.691 and this was the trip where we really went to see 0:00:41.691,0:00:43.583 the animals and to see the Savanna. 0:00:43.583,0:00:45.571 It was incredible. Bill had never taken that much time 0:00:45.571,0:00:46.983 off from work. 0:00:46.983,0:00:51.610 But what really touched us actually were the people, 0:00:51.610,0:00:54.218 and the extreme poverty. 0:00:54.218,0:00:55.791 We started asking ourselves questions. 0:00:55.791,0:00:57.595 Does it have to be like this? 0:00:57.595,0:00:58.546 And at the end of the trip, 0:00:58.546,0:00:59.646 we went out to Zanzibar, 0:00:59.646,0:01:01.134 and took some time to walk on the beach, 0:01:01.134,0:01:02.500 which is something we had done a lot 0:01:02.500,0:01:03.818 while we were dating. 0:01:03.818,0:01:06.791 And we'd already been talking about during that time 0:01:06.791,0:01:08.648 that the wealth that had come from Microsoft 0:01:08.648,0:01:09.923 would be given back to society, 0:01:09.923,0:01:11.497 but it was really on that beach walk 0:01:11.497,0:01:13.069 that we started to talk about, well, 0:01:13.069,0:01:16.602 what might we do and how might we go about it? 0:01:16.602,0:01:19.334 CA: So given that this vacation 0:01:19.334,0:01:21.526 led to the creation of, I guess, 0:01:21.526,0:01:24.342 the world's biggest private foundation, 0:01:24.342,0:01:27.474 it's pretty expensive as vacations go. 0:01:27.474,0:01:29.942 MG: I guess so. We enjoyed it. 0:01:29.942,0:01:32.840 CA: I mean, which of you[br]was the key instigator here, 0:01:32.840,0:01:35.793 or was it symmetrical? 0:01:35.793,0:01:38.186 Bill Gates: Well, I think we were excited 0:01:38.186,0:01:39.653 that there'd be a phase of our life 0:01:39.653,0:01:41.714 where we'd get to work together 0:01:41.714,0:01:48.675 and figure out how to give this money back. 0:01:48.675,0:01:51.474 At this stage, we were talking about the poorest, 0:01:51.474,0:01:53.876 and could you have a big impact on them? 0:01:53.876,0:01:55.801 Were there things that weren't being done? 0:01:55.801,0:01:57.701 There was a lot we didn't know. 0:01:57.701,0:01:59.789 Our naïveté is pretty incredible, 0:01:59.789,0:02:00.881 when we look back on it. 0:02:00.881,0:02:02.437 But we had a certain enthusiasm 0:02:02.437,0:02:05.204 that that would be the phase, 0:02:05.204,0:02:08.160 the post-Microsoft phase 0:02:08.160,0:02:10.388 would be our philanthropy. 0:02:10.388,0:02:12.534 MG: Which Bill always thought was going to come 0:02:12.534,0:02:13.670 after he was 60, 0:02:13.670,0:02:15.332 so he hasn't quite hit 60 yet, 0:02:15.332,0:02:18.525 so some things change along the way. 0:02:18.525,0:02:20.969 CA: So it started there, but it got accelerated. 0:02:20.969,0:02:23.489 So that was '93, and it was '97, really, 0:02:23.489,0:02:25.227 before the foundation itself started. 0:02:25.227,0:02:27.532 MA: Yeah, in '97, we read an article 0:02:27.532,0:02:30.946 about diarrheal diseases killing[br]so many kids around the world, 0:02:30.946,0:02:32.560 and we kept saying to ourselves, 0:02:32.560,0:02:33.800 "Well that can't be. 0:02:33.800,0:02:35.554 In the U.S., you just go down to the drug store." 0:02:35.554,0:02:37.719 And so we started gathering scientists 0:02:37.719,0:02:40.185 and started learning about population, 0:02:40.185,0:02:41.545 learning about vaccines, 0:02:41.545,0:02:43.932 learning about what had worked and what had failed, 0:02:43.932,0:02:45.838 and that was really when we got going, 0:02:45.838,0:02:50.215 was in late 1998, 1999. 0:02:50.215,0:02:52.966 CA: So you've got a big pot of money 0:02:52.966,0:02:55.293 and a world full of so many different issues. 0:02:55.293,0:02:59.515 How on earth do you decide what to focus on? 0:02:59.515,0:03:02.060 BG: Well, we decided that we'd pick two causes, 0:03:02.060,0:03:04.920 whatever the biggest inequity was globally, 0:03:04.920,0:03:07.180 and there we looked at children dying, 0:03:07.180,0:03:09.920 children not having enough nutrition to ever develop, 0:03:09.920,0:03:11.419 and countries that were really stuck, 0:03:11.419,0:03:13.679 because with that level of death, 0:03:13.679,0:03:15.647 and parents would have so many kids 0:03:15.647,0:03:17.165 that they'd get huge population growth, 0:03:17.165,0:03:20.291 and that the kids were so sick 0:03:20.291,0:03:22.937 that they really couldn't be educated 0:03:22.937,0:03:24.809 and lift themselves up. 0:03:24.809,0:03:25.917 So that was our global thing, 0:03:25.917,0:03:28.637 and then in the U.S., 0:03:28.637,0:03:31.411 both of us have had amazing educations, 0:03:31.411,0:03:34.460 and we saw that as the way that the U.S. 0:03:34.460,0:03:37.472 could live up to its promise of equal opportunity 0:03:37.472,0:03:40.057 is by having a phenomenal education system, 0:03:40.057,0:03:42.685 and the more we learned, the more we realized 0:03:42.685,0:03:45.113 we're not really fulfilling that promise. 0:03:45.113,0:03:46.950 And so we picked those two things, 0:03:46.950,0:03:48.602 and everything the foundation does 0:03:48.602,0:03:51.616 are focused there. 0:03:51.616,0:03:53.952 CA: So I asked each of you to pick an image 0:03:53.952,0:03:56.384 that you like that illustrates you work, 0:03:56.384,0:03:59.452 and Melinda, this is what you picked. 0:03:59.452,0:04:00.919 What's this about? 0:04:00.919,0:04:03.950 MG: So I, one of the things I love to do when I travel 0:04:03.950,0:04:07.060 is to go out to the rural areas and talk to the women, 0:04:07.060,0:04:09.658 whether it's Bangladesh, India,[br]lots of countries in Africa, 0:04:09.658,0:04:12.066 and I go in as a Western woman without a name. 0:04:12.066,0:04:15.475 I don't tell them who I am. Pair of khakis. 0:04:15.475,0:04:16.979 And I kept hearing from women, 0:04:16.979,0:04:19.862 over and over and over, the more I travelled, 0:04:19.862,0:04:22.141 "I want to be able to use this shot." 0:04:22.141,0:04:24.840 I would be there to talk to them[br]about childhood vaccines, 0:04:24.840,0:04:27.240 and they would bring the conversation around to 0:04:27.240,0:04:29.221 "But what about the shot I get?" 0:04:29.221,0:04:31.673 which is an injection they were[br]getting called Depo-Provera, 0:04:31.673,0:04:33.654 which is a contraceptive. 0:04:33.654,0:04:35.986 And I would come back and[br]talk to global health experts, 0:04:35.986,0:04:37.539 and they'd say, "Oh no, contraceptives 0:04:37.539,0:04:39.931 are stocked in in the developing world." 0:04:39.931,0:04:41.921 Well, you had to dig deeper into the reports, 0:04:41.921,0:04:43.697 and this is what the team came to me with, 0:04:43.697,0:04:45.843 which is, to have the number one thing 0:04:45.843,0:04:48.981 that women tell you in Africa they want to use 0:04:48.981,0:04:51.598 stocked out more than 200 days a year 0:04:51.598,0:04:53.502 explains why women were saying to me, 0:04:53.502,0:04:57.054 "I walked 10 kilometers without[br]my husband knowing it, 0:04:57.054,0:05:00.363 and I got to the clinic, and there was nothing there." 0:05:00.363,0:05:03.170 And so condoms were stocked in in Africa 0:05:03.170,0:05:05.447 because of all the AIDS work that the U.S. 0:05:05.447,0:05:06.851 and others supported. 0:05:06.851,0:05:08.522 But women will tell you over and over again, 0:05:08.522,0:05:11.132 "I can't negotiate a condom with my husband. 0:05:11.132,0:05:15.340 I'm either suggesting he has AIDS or I have AIDS, 0:05:15.340,0:05:18.100 and I need that tool because then I can space 0:05:18.100,0:05:20.517 the births of my children, and I can feed them 0:05:20.517,0:05:23.055 and have a chance of educating them." 0:05:23.055,0:05:25.105 CA: Melinda, you're Roman Catholic, 0:05:25.105,0:05:28.674 and you've often been embroiled 0:05:28.674,0:05:30.628 in controversy over this issue, 0:05:30.628,0:05:32.877 and on the abortion question, 0:05:32.877,0:05:34.332 on both sides, really. 0:05:34.332,0:05:36.023 How do you navigate that? 0:05:36.023,0:05:39.133 MG: Yeah, so I think that's a really important point, 0:05:39.133,0:05:42.216 which is, we had backed away from contraceptives 0:05:42.216,0:05:43.383 as a global community. 0:05:43.383,0:05:46.677 We knew that 210 million women 0:05:46.677,0:05:48.936 were saying they wanted access to contraceptives, 0:05:48.936,0:05:51.576 even the contraceptives we have[br]here in the United States, 0:05:51.576,0:05:53.881 and we weren't providing them 0:05:53.881,0:05:57.632 because of the political controversy in our country, 0:05:57.632,0:05:59.809 and to me that was just a crime, 0:05:59.809,0:06:02.574 and I kept looking around trying to find the person 0:06:02.574,0:06:04.924 that would get this back on the global stage, 0:06:04.924,0:06:06.930 and I finally realized I just had to do it. 0:06:06.930,0:06:08.601 And even though I'm Catholic, 0:06:08.601,0:06:10.042 I believe in contraceptives 0:06:10.042,0:06:12.338 just like most of the Catholic[br]women in the United States 0:06:12.338,0:06:14.169 who report using contraceptives, 0:06:14.169,0:06:16.454 and I shouldn't let that controversy 0:06:16.454,0:06:18.269 be the thing that holds us back. 0:06:18.269,0:06:20.227 We used to have consensus in the United States 0:06:20.227,0:06:21.492 around contraceptives, 0:06:21.492,0:06:23.972 and so we got back to that global consensus, 0:06:23.972,0:06:26.616 and actually raised 2.6 billion dollars 0:06:26.616,0:06:29.149 around exactly this issue for women. 0:06:29.149,0:06:34.616 (Applause) 0:06:37.249,0:06:41.105 CA: Bill, this is your graph. What's this about? 0:06:41.105,0:06:43.090 BG: Well, my graph has numbers on it. 0:06:43.090,0:06:45.208 (Laughter) 0:06:45.208,0:06:47.025 I really like this graph. 0:06:47.025,0:06:50.000 This is the number of children 0:06:50.000,0:06:52.562 who die before the age of five every year. 0:06:52.582,0:06:54.405 And what you find is really 0:06:54.405,0:06:56.355 a phenomenal success story 0:06:56.355,0:06:58.509 which is not widely known, 0:06:58.509,0:07:01.184 that we are making incredible progress. 0:07:01.184,0:07:03.562 We go from 20 million 0:07:03.562,0:07:05.266 not long after I was born 0:07:05.266,0:07:08.952 to now we're down to about six million. 0:07:08.952,0:07:11.089 So this is a story 0:07:11.089,0:07:12.756 largely of vaccines. 0:07:12.756,0:07:15.880 Smallpox was killing a couple million kids a year. 0:07:15.880,0:07:18.070 That was eradicated, so that got down to zero. 0:07:18.070,0:07:19.910 Measles was killing a couple million a year. 0:07:19.910,0:07:21.613 That's down to a few hundred thousand. 0:07:21.613,0:07:23.521 Anyway, this is a chart 0:07:23.521,0:07:27.708 where you want to get that number to continue, 0:07:27.708,0:07:29.448 and it's going to be possible, 0:07:29.448,0:07:31.124 using the science of new vaccines, 0:07:31.124,0:07:33.016 getting the vaccines out to kids. 0:07:33.016,0:07:34.740 We can actually accelerate the progress. 0:07:34.740,0:07:36.303 The last decade, 0:07:36.303,0:07:38.115 that number has dropped faster 0:07:38.115,0:07:40.393 than ever in history, 0:07:40.393,0:07:43.116 and so I just love the fact that 0:07:43.116,0:07:45.381 you can say, okay, if we can invent new vaccines, 0:07:45.381,0:07:46.889 we can get them out there, 0:07:46.889,0:07:49.374 use the very latest understanding of these things, 0:07:49.374,0:07:53.985 and get the delivery right, that[br]we can perform a miracle. 0:07:53.985,0:07:55.143 CA: I mean, you do the math on this, 0:07:55.143,0:07:57.017 and it works out I think literally 0:07:57.017,0:07:59.143 to thousands of kids' lives saved every day 0:07:59.143,0:08:01.197 compared to the prior year. 0:08:01.197,0:08:03.044 It's not reported. 0:08:03.044,0:08:06.290 An airliner with 200-plus deaths 0:08:06.290,0:08:08.500 is a far, far bigger story than that. 0:08:08.500,0:08:10.049 Does that drive you crazy? 0:08:10.049,0:08:13.040 BG: Yeah, because it's a silent thing going on. 0:08:13.040,0:08:16.170 It's a kid, one kid at a time. 0:08:16.170,0:08:17.073 Ninety-eight percent of this 0:08:17.073,0:08:19.050 has nothing to do with natural disasters, 0:08:19.050,0:08:20.527 and yet, people's charity, 0:08:20.527,0:08:22.050 when they see a natural disaster, are wonderful. 0:08:22.050,0:08:24.286 It's incredible how people think, okay, 0:08:24.286,0:08:27.062 that could be me, and the money flows. 0:08:27.062,0:08:30.468 These causes have been a bit invisible. 0:08:30.468,0:08:32.679 Now that the Millennium Development Goals 0:08:32.679,0:08:34.229 and various things are getting out there, 0:08:34.229,0:08:37.073 we are seeing some increased generosity, 0:08:37.073,0:08:40.344 so the goal is to get this well below a million, 0:08:40.344,0:08:43.082 which should be possible in our lifetime. 0:08:43.082,0:08:43.822 CA: Maybe it needed someone 0:08:43.822,0:08:46.038 who is turned on by numbers and graphs 0:08:46.038,0:08:48.452 rather than just the big, sad face 0:08:48.452,0:08:50.107 to get engaged. 0:08:50.107,0:08:51.830 I mean, you've used it in your letter this year, 0:08:51.830,0:08:55.281 you used basically this argument to say that aid, 0:08:55.281,0:08:56.952 contrary to the current meme 0:08:56.952,0:09:00.035 that aid is kind of worthless and broken, 0:09:00.035,0:09:01.988 that actually it has been effective. 0:09:01.988,0:09:03.968 BG: Yeah, well people can take, 0:09:03.968,0:09:07.148 there is some aid that was well-meaning 0:09:07.148,0:09:09.071 and didn't go well. 0:09:09.071,0:09:11.004 There's some venture capital investments 0:09:11.004,0:09:13.904 that were well-meaning and didn't go well. 0:09:13.904,0:09:16.743 You shouldn't just say, okay, because of that, 0:09:16.743,0:09:19.861 because we don't have a perfect record, 0:09:19.861,0:09:21.393 this is a bad endeavor. 0:09:21.393,0:09:23.263 You should look at, what was your goal? 0:09:23.263,0:09:25.871 How are you trying to uplift nutrition 0:09:25.871,0:09:29.275 and survival and literacy 0:09:29.275,0:09:30.910 so these countries can take care of themselves, 0:09:30.910,0:09:32.914 and say wow, this is going well, 0:09:32.914,0:09:34.186 and be smarter. 0:09:34.186,0:09:36.026 We can spend aid smarter. 0:09:36.026,0:09:39.438 It is not all a panacea. 0:09:39.438,0:09:42.370 We can do better than venture capital, I think, 0:09:42.370,0:09:45.157 including big hits like this. 0:09:45.157,0:09:47.900 CA: Traditional wisdom is that 0:09:47.900,0:09:51.948 it's pretty hard for married couples to work together. 0:09:51.948,0:09:53.564 How have you guys managed it? 0:09:53.564,0:09:55.234 MG: Yeah, I've had a lot of women say to me, 0:09:55.234,0:09:57.093 "I really don't think I could work with my husband. 0:09:57.093,0:09:59.530 That just wouldn't work out." 0:09:59.530,0:10:02.829 You know, we enjoy it, and we don't, 0:10:02.829,0:10:05.315 this foundation has been a coming to for both of us 0:10:05.315,0:10:08.143 in its continuous learning journey, 0:10:08.143,0:10:10.902 and we don't travel together as much 0:10:10.902,0:10:12.830 for the foundation actually as we used to 0:10:12.830,0:10:14.286 when Bill was working at Microsoft. 0:10:14.286,0:10:16.509 We have more trips where[br]we're traveling separately, 0:10:16.509,0:10:18.651 but I always know when I come home, 0:10:18.651,0:10:20.790 Bill's going to be interested in what I learned, 0:10:20.790,0:10:22.533 whether it's about women or girls 0:10:22.533,0:10:25.219 or something new about the vaccine delivery chain, 0:10:25.219,0:10:27.455 or this person that is a great leader. 0:10:27.455,0:10:29.922 He's going to listen and be really interested. 0:10:29.922,0:10:31.525 And he knows when he comes home, 0:10:31.525,0:10:33.358 even if it's to talk about the speech he did 0:10:33.358,0:10:35.100 or the data or what he's learned, 0:10:35.100,0:10:36.342 I'm really interested, 0:10:36.342,0:10:39.242 and I think we have a really[br]collaborative relationship. 0:10:39.242,0:10:41.916 But we don't every minute together, that's for sure. 0:10:41.916,0:10:46.091 (Laughter) 0:10:46.091,0:10:48.586 CA: But now you are. I'm very happy you are. 0:10:48.586,0:10:52.172 Melinda, early on, you were basically 0:10:52.172,0:10:54.173 largely running the show. 0:10:54.173,0:10:55.385 Six years ago, I guess, 0:10:55.385,0:10:57.968 Bill came on full time, so moved from Microsoft 0:10:57.968,0:10:59.079 and became full time. 0:10:59.079,0:11:00.058 That must have been hard, 0:11:00.058,0:11:02.094 adjusting to that. No? 0:11:02.094,0:11:05.148 MG: Yeah. I think actually, 0:11:05.148,0:11:07.137 for the foundation employees, 0:11:07.137,0:11:09.684 there was way more angst for them 0:11:09.684,0:11:11.050 than there was for them than[br]there was for me about Bill coming. 0:11:11.050,0:11:12.256 I was actually really excited. 0:11:12.256,0:11:13.875 I mean, Bill made this decision 0:11:13.875,0:11:16.558 even obviously before it got announced in 2006, 0:11:16.558,0:11:18.260 and it was really his decision, 0:11:18.260,0:11:20.146 but again, it was a beach vacation 0:11:20.146,0:11:21.450 where we were walking on the beach 0:11:21.450,0:11:23.714 and he was starting to think of this idea. 0:11:23.714,0:11:26.326 And for me, the excitement of Bill 0:11:26.326,0:11:29.035 putting his brain and his heart 0:11:29.035,0:11:31.382 against these huge global problems, 0:11:31.382,0:11:33.710 these inequities, to me that was exciting. 0:11:33.710,0:11:37.444 Yes, the foundation employees had angst about that. 0:11:37.444,0:11:39.119 (Applause) 0:11:39.119,0:11:41.235 CA: That's cool. 0:11:41.235,0:11:42.919 MG: But that went away within three months, 0:11:42.919,0:11:43.846 once that was there. 0:11:43.846,0:11:45.511 BG: Including some of the employees. 0:11:45.511,0:11:46.784 MG: That's what I said, the employees, 0:11:46.784,0:11:48.906 it went away for them three[br]months after you were there. 0:11:48.906,0:11:51.226 BG: No, I'm kidding.[br]MG: Oh, you mean, the employees didn't go away. 0:11:51.226,0:11:53.127 BG: A few of them did, but— 0:11:53.127,0:11:54.960 (Laughter) 0:11:54.960,0:11:56.903 CA: So what do you guys argue about? 0:11:56.903,0:11:59.560 Like, you know, Sunday, 11 o'clock, 0:11:59.560,0:12:00.981 you're away from work, 0:12:00.981,0:12:03.494 what comes up? What's the argument? 0:12:03.494,0:12:05.139 BG: You know, because we built this thing 0:12:05.139,0:12:08.258 together from the beginning, 0:12:08.258,0:12:09.904 it's this great partnership. 0:12:09.904,0:12:11.758 You know, I had that with Paul Allen 0:12:11.758,0:12:13.669 in the early days of Microsoft. 0:12:13.669,0:12:16.481 I had it with Steve Ballmer as Microsoft got bigger, 0:12:16.481,0:12:19.485 and now Melinda, and in even stronger, 0:12:19.485,0:12:21.371 equal ways, is the partner, 0:12:21.371,0:12:23.128 so we talk a lot about 0:12:23.128,0:12:25.256 which things should we give more to, 0:12:25.256,0:12:27.800 which groups are working well? 0:12:27.800,0:12:29.053 You know, she's got a lot of insight. 0:12:29.053,0:12:30.700 She'll sit down with the employees a lot. 0:12:30.700,0:12:32.816 We'll take the different trips she described. 0:12:32.816,0:12:36.433 So there's a lot of collaboration. 0:12:36.433,0:12:38.409 I can't think of anything where one of us 0:12:38.409,0:12:41.679 had a super-strong opinion 0:12:41.679,0:12:43.515 about one thing or another? 0:12:43.515,0:12:46.317 CA: How about you, Melinda? 0:12:46.317,0:12:47.533 You never know. (Laughter) 0:12:47.533,0:12:49.059 MG: Well, here's the thing. 0:12:49.059,0:12:50.798 We come at things from different angles, 0:12:50.798,0:12:52.730 and I actually think that's really good. 0:12:52.730,0:12:54.738 So Bill can look at the big data 0:12:54.738,0:12:57.750 and say, "I want to act based[br]on these global statistics." 0:12:57.750,0:12:59.616 For me, I come at it from intuition. 0:12:59.616,0:13:01.549 I meet with lots of people on the ground 0:13:01.549,0:13:03.529 and Bill's taught me to take that 0:13:03.529,0:13:06.152 and read up to the global data and see if they match, 0:13:06.152,0:13:07.241 and I think what I've taught him 0:13:07.241,0:13:08.669 is to take that data 0:13:08.669,0:13:10.283 and meet with people on the ground to understand, 0:13:10.283,0:13:12.667 can you actually deliver that vaccine? 0:13:12.667,0:13:15.868 Can you get a woman to accept those polio drops 0:13:15.868,0:13:17.198 in her child's mouth? 0:13:17.198,0:13:18.756 Because the delivery piece 0:13:18.756,0:13:20.959 is every bit as important as the science. 0:13:20.959,0:13:23.671 So I think it's been more a coming to over time 0:13:23.671,0:13:24.656 towards each other's point of view, 0:13:24.656,0:13:28.046 and quite frankly, the work is better because of it. 0:13:28.046,0:13:30.229 CA: So I mean, in vaccines, and polio and so forth, 0:13:30.229,0:13:34.118 you've had some amazing successes. 0:13:34.118,0:13:35.350 What about failure, though? 0:13:35.350,0:13:37.041 Can you talk about a failure 0:13:37.041,0:13:39.137 and maybe what you've learned from it? 0:13:39.137,0:13:41.705 BG: Yeah. Fortunately, we can afford a few failures, 0:13:41.705,0:13:43.842 because we've certainly had them. 0:13:43.842,0:13:48.216 We do a lot of drug work or vaccine work 0:13:48.216,0:13:51.492 that you know you're going to have different failures. 0:13:51.492,0:13:53.649 Like, we put out one that got a lot of publicity, 0:13:53.649,0:13:55.020 was asking for a better condom. 0:13:55.020,0:13:56.514 Well, we got hundreds of ideas. 0:13:56.514,0:13:59.708 Maybe a few of those will work out. 0:13:59.708,0:14:03.087 We were very naïve, certainly I was, about a drug 0:14:03.087,0:14:05.703 for a disease in India, visceral leishmaniasis, 0:14:05.703,0:14:07.354 that I thought, once I got this drug, 0:14:07.354,0:14:08.710 we can just go wipe out the disease. 0:14:08.710,0:14:11.290 Well, turns out it took an injection 0:14:11.290,0:14:12.926 every day for 10 days. 0:14:12.926,0:14:15.313 It took three more years to get it than we expected, 0:14:15.313,0:14:16.771 and then there was no way 0:14:16.771,0:14:19.139 it was going to get out there. 0:14:19.139,0:14:20.358 Fortunately, we found out 0:14:20.358,0:14:23.520 that if you go kill the sand flies, 0:14:23.520,0:14:25.642 you probably can have success there, 0:14:25.642,0:14:27.497 but we spent five years, 0:14:27.497,0:14:28.875 you could say wasted five years, 0:14:28.875,0:14:30.882 and about 60 million, 0:14:30.882,0:14:32.222 on a path that turned out to have 0:14:32.222,0:14:36.387 very modest benefit when we got there. 0:14:36.387,0:14:39.831 CA: You're spending, like, a billion dollars a year 0:14:39.831,0:14:41.766 in education, I think, something like that. 0:14:41.766,0:14:45.790 Is anything, the story of what's gone right there 0:14:45.790,0:14:48.246 is quite a long and complex one. 0:14:48.246,0:14:52.168 Are there any failures you can talk about? 0:14:52.168,0:14:53.908 MG: Well I would say a huge lesson for us 0:14:53.908,0:14:55.206 out of the early work is we thought 0:14:55.206,0:14:57.739 that these small schools were the answer, 0:14:57.739,0:14:59.209 and small schools definitely help. 0:14:59.209,0:15:00.733 They bring down the dropout rate. 0:15:00.733,0:15:03.333 They have less violence and crime in those schools. 0:15:03.333,0:15:05.479 But the thing that we learned from that work, 0:15:05.479,0:15:08.013 and what turned out to be the fundamental key, 0:15:08.013,0:15:10.077 is a great teacher in front of the classroom. 0:15:10.077,0:15:11.684 If you don't have an effective teacher 0:15:11.684,0:15:12.750 in the front of the classroom, 0:15:12.750,0:15:14.906 I don't care how big or small the building is, 0:15:14.906,0:15:16.560 you're not going to change the trajectory 0:15:16.560,0:15:18.513 of whether that student will be ready for college. 0:15:18.513,0:15:23.108 (Applause) 0:15:23.108,0:15:25.418 CA: So Melinda, this is you and 0:15:25.418,0:15:28.972 your eldest daughter, Jenny. 0:15:28.972,0:15:30.871 And just taken about three weeks ago, I think, 0:15:30.871,0:15:32.455 three or four weeks ago. Where was this? 0:15:32.455,0:15:34.211 MG: So we went to Tanzania. 0:15:34.211,0:15:35.053 Jen's been to Tanzania. 0:15:35.053,0:15:37.756 All our kids have been to Africa quite a bit, actually. 0:15:37.756,0:15:39.971 And we did something very different, 0:15:39.971,0:15:41.798 which is, we decided to go spend 0:15:41.798,0:15:44.217 two nights and three days with a family. 0:15:44.217,0:15:47.318 Ana and Sanari are the parents. 0:15:47.318,0:15:50.352 They invited us to come and stay in their boma. 0:15:50.352,0:15:51.851 Actually, the goats had been there, I think, 0:15:51.851,0:15:53.250 living in that particular little hut 0:15:53.250,0:15:55.921 on their little compound before we got there. 0:15:55.921,0:15:57.419 And we stayed with their family, 0:15:57.419,0:15:59.353 and we really, really learned 0:15:59.353,0:16:01.206 what life is like in rural Tanzania. 0:16:01.206,0:16:02.820 And the difference between just going 0:16:02.820,0:16:04.539 and visiting for half a day 0:16:04.539,0:16:06.001 or three quarters of a day 0:16:06.001,0:16:08.399 versus staying overnight was profound, 0:16:08.399,0:16:11.890 and so let me just give you one explanation of that. 0:16:11.890,0:16:14.019 They had six children, and as I talked to Ana 0:16:14.019,0:16:15.794 in the kitchen, we cooked for about five hours 0:16:15.794,0:16:17.437 in the cooking hut that day, 0:16:17.437,0:16:19.248 and as I talked to her, she had absolutely planned 0:16:19.248,0:16:20.718 and spaced with her husband 0:16:20.718,0:16:22.155 the births of their children. 0:16:22.155,0:16:23.810 It was a very loving relationship. 0:16:23.810,0:16:26.113 This was a Masai warrior and his wife, 0:16:26.113,0:16:28.022 but they had decided to get married, 0:16:28.022,0:16:31.357 they clearly had respect and love in the relationship. 0:16:31.357,0:16:32.968 Their children, their six children, 0:16:32.968,0:16:35.487 the two in the middle were twins, 13, 0:16:35.487,0:16:37.740 a boy and a girl named Grace. 0:16:37.740,0:16:39.313 And then, when we'd go out to chop wood 0:16:39.313,0:16:41.748 and do all the things that Grace[br]and her mother would do, 0:16:41.748,0:16:44.340 Grace was not a child, she was an adolescent, 0:16:44.340,0:16:45.817 but she wasn't an adult. 0:16:45.817,0:16:47.568 She was very, very shy. 0:16:47.568,0:16:49.329 So she kept wanting to talk to me and Jen. 0:16:49.329,0:16:52.164 We kept trying to engage her, but she was shy. 0:16:52.164,0:16:53.770 And at night, though, 0:16:53.770,0:16:56.577 when all the lights went out in rural Tanzania, 0:16:56.577,0:16:58.081 and there was no moon that night, 0:16:58.081,0:16:59.803 the first night, and no stars, 0:16:59.803,0:17:01.629 and Jen came out of our hut 0:17:01.629,0:17:04.446 with her REI little headlamp on, 0:17:04.446,0:17:06.584 Grace went immediately, 0:17:06.584,0:17:07.940 and got the translator, 0:17:07.940,0:17:10.030 came straight up to my Jen and said, 0:17:10.030,0:17:11.263 "When you go home, 0:17:11.263,0:17:12.438 can I have your headlamp 0:17:12.438,0:17:14.688 so I can study at night?" 0:17:14.688,0:17:15.250 CA: Oh, wow. 0:17:15.250,0:17:16.734 MG: And her dad had told me 0:17:16.734,0:17:18.821 how afraid he was that unlike the son, 0:17:18.821,0:17:20.483 who had passed his secondary exams, 0:17:20.483,0:17:22.013 because of her chores, 0:17:22.013,0:17:23.451 she'd not done so well 0:17:23.451,0:17:25.555 and wasn't in the government school yet. 0:17:25.555,0:17:27.530 He said, "I don't know how I'm[br]going to pay for her education. 0:17:27.530,0:17:29.616 I can't pay for private school, 0:17:29.616,0:17:32.195 and she may end up on this farm like my wife." 0:17:32.195,0:17:33.324 So they know the difference 0:17:33.324,0:17:34.349 that an education can make 0:17:34.349,0:17:37.346 in a huge, profound way. 0:17:37.346,0:17:38.767 CA: I mean, this is another picture 0:17:38.767,0:17:42.173 of your other two kids, Rory and Phoebe, 0:17:42.173,0:17:46.311 along with Paul Farmer. 0:17:46.311,0:17:47.925 Bringing up three children 0:17:47.925,0:17:50.927 when you're the world's richest family 0:17:50.927,0:17:53.223 seems like a social experiment 0:17:53.223,0:17:56.795 without much prior art. 0:17:56.795,0:17:58.330 How have you managed it? 0:17:58.330,0:18:00.545 What's been your approach? 0:18:00.545,0:18:03.798 BG: Well, I'd say yeah, overall, 0:18:03.798,0:18:04.940 the kids get a great education, 0:18:04.940,0:18:05.838 but you've got to make sure 0:18:05.838,0:18:07.540 they have a sense of their own ability 0:18:07.540,0:18:09.529 and what they're going to and do, 0:18:09.529,0:18:11.902 and our philosophy has been, you know, 0:18:11.902,0:18:13.004 to be very clear with them: 0:18:13.004,0:18:14.669 most of the money's going to the foundation, 0:18:14.669,0:18:19.010 and help them find something they're excited about. 0:18:19.010,0:18:20.405 We want to strike a balance where they have 0:18:20.405,0:18:22.198 the freedom to do anything 0:18:22.198,0:18:25.538 but not, sort of, a lot of money showered on them 0:18:25.538,0:18:28.667 so they could go out and do nothing. 0:18:28.667,0:18:31.645 And so far, they're fairly diligent, 0:18:31.645,0:18:34.829 excited to pick their own direction. 0:18:34.829,0:18:36.243 CA: I mean, you've obviously 0:18:36.243,0:18:40.421 guarded their privacy carefully for obvious reasons. 0:18:40.421,0:18:42.615 I'm curious why you've given me permission 0:18:42.615,0:18:44.420 to show this picture now here at TED. 0:18:44.420,0:18:45.097 MG: Well, it's interesting. 0:18:45.097,0:18:47.218 As they get older, they so know 0:18:47.218,0:18:50.227 that our family belief is about responsibility, 0:18:50.227,0:18:52.342 that we are in an unbelievable situation 0:18:52.342,0:18:53.960 just to live in the United States 0:18:53.960,0:18:55.651 and have a great education, 0:18:55.651,0:18:57.699 and we have a responsibility[br]to give back to the world. 0:18:57.699,0:18:58.752 And so as they get older 0:18:58.752,0:18:59.772 and we are teaching them 0:18:59.772,0:19:01.952 — they have been to so many[br]countries around the world — 0:19:01.952,0:19:03.474 they're saying, you know, 0:19:03.474,0:19:05.016 we do want people to know that we believe 0:19:05.016,0:19:06.517 in what you're doing, mom and dad, 0:19:06.517,0:19:08.478 and it is okay to show us more. 0:19:08.478,0:19:11.130 So we have their permission to show this picture, 0:19:11.130,0:19:12.845 and I think Paul Farmer is probably going to put it 0:19:12.845,0:19:15.300 eventually in some of his work. 0:19:15.300,0:19:16.902 But they really care deeply 0:19:16.902,0:19:19.327 about the mission of the foundation, too. 0:19:19.327,0:19:21.249 CA: I mean, you've easily got enough money 0:19:21.249,0:19:23.840 despite your vast contributions to the foundation 0:19:23.840,0:19:25.474 to make them all billionaires. 0:19:25.474,0:19:26.991 Is that your plan for them? 0:19:26.991,0:19:29.327 BG: Nope. No. They won't have anything like that. 0:19:29.327,0:19:31.262 They need to have a sense 0:19:31.262,0:19:37.798 that their own work is meaningful and important. 0:19:37.798,0:19:41.270 We read an article long, actually,[br]before we got married, 0:19:41.270,0:19:43.915 where Warren Buffett talked about that, 0:19:43.915,0:19:45.984 and we're quite convinced that it wasn't a favor 0:19:45.984,0:19:49.418 either to society or to the kids. 0:19:49.418,0:19:51.486 CA: Well speaking of Warren Buffett, 0:19:51.486,0:19:54.150 something really amazing happened in 2006, 0:19:54.150,0:19:56.910 when somehow your only real rival 0:19:56.910,0:19:58.662 for richest person in America 0:19:58.662,0:20:00.032 suddenly turned around and agreed to give 0:20:00.032,0:20:02.625 80 percent of his fortune 0:20:02.625,0:20:04.342 to your foundation. 0:20:04.342,0:20:06.078 How on Earth did that happen? 0:20:06.078,0:20:08.056 I guess there's a long version[br]and a short version of that. 0:20:08.056,0:20:09.438 We've got time for the short version. 0:20:09.438,0:20:13.193 BG: All right. Well Warren was a close friend, 0:20:13.193,0:20:17.850 and he was going to have his wife Suzie 0:20:17.850,0:20:19.405 give it all away. 0:20:19.405,0:20:22.846 Tragically, she passed away before he did, 0:20:22.846,0:20:26.444 and he's big on delegation, and 0:20:26.444,0:20:28.602 — (Laughter) — 0:20:28.602,0:20:30.013 he said— 0:20:30.013,0:20:30.868 CA: Tweet that. 0:20:30.868,0:20:34.029 BG: — you know, if he's got somebody[br]who is doing something well, 0:20:34.029,0:20:38.486 and is willing to do it at no charge, 0:20:38.486,0:20:40.864 maybe that's okay. But we were stunned. 0:20:40.864,0:20:42.960 MG: Totally stunned.[br]BG: We had never expected it, 0:20:42.960,0:20:44.525 and it has been unbelievable. 0:20:44.525,0:20:47.665 It's allowed us to increase our ambition 0:20:47.665,0:20:51.282 in what the foundation is to do quite dramatically. 0:20:51.282,0:20:52.786 Half the resources we have 0:20:52.786,0:20:55.670 come from Warren's mind-blowing generosity. 0:20:55.670,0:20:56.554 CA: And I think you've pledged that 0:20:56.554,0:20:58.344 by the time you're done, 0:20:58.344,0:21:00.222 more than, or 95 percent of your wealth, 0:21:00.222,0:21:02.387 will be given to the foundation. 0:21:02.387,0:21:03.141 BG: Yes. 0:21:03.141,0:21:07.020 CA: And since this relationship, it's amazing— 0:21:07.020,0:21:10.386 (Applause) 0:21:10.386,0:21:13.023 And recently, you and Warren 0:21:13.023,0:21:14.903 have been going around trying to persuade 0:21:14.903,0:21:16.879 other billionaires and successful people 0:21:16.879,0:21:18.402 to pledge to give, what, 0:21:18.402,0:21:24.160 more than half of their assets for philanthropy. 0:21:24.160,0:21:26.575 How is that going? 0:21:26.575,0:21:29.747 BG: Well, we've got about 120 people 0:21:29.747,0:21:32.185 who have now taken this giving pledge. 0:21:32.185,0:21:34.791 The thing that's great is that we get together 0:21:34.791,0:21:36.900 yearly and talk about, okay, 0:21:36.900,0:21:38.865 do you hire staff and give to them? 0:21:38.865,0:21:40.092 We're not trying to homogenize it. 0:21:40.092,0:21:41.140 I mean, the beauty of philanthropy 0:21:41.140,0:21:43.327 is this mind-blowing diversity. 0:21:43.327,0:21:44.310 People give to some things. 0:21:44.310,0:21:47.289 We look and go, "Wow." 0:21:47.289,0:21:48.097 But that's great. 0:21:48.097,0:21:49.226 That's the role of philanthropy 0:21:49.226,0:21:51.713 is to pick different approaches, 0:21:51.713,0:21:53.705 including even in one space, like education. 0:21:53.705,0:21:56.076 We need more experimentation. 0:21:56.076,0:21:58.980 But it's been wonderful, meeting those people, 0:21:58.980,0:22:00.092 sharing their journey to philanthropy, 0:22:00.092,0:22:01.204 0:22:01.204,0:22:02.316 how they involve their kids 0:22:02.316,0:22:04.150 where they're doing it differently, 0:22:04.150,0:22:06.856 and it's been way more successful than we expected. 0:22:06.856,0:22:09.551 Now it looks like it'll just keep growing in size 0:22:09.551,0:22:12.114 in the years ahead. 0:22:12.114,0:22:15.626 MG: And having people see that other people 0:22:15.626,0:22:17.330 are making change with philanthropy, 0:22:17.330,0:22:19.666 I mean, these are people who have 0:22:19.666,0:22:20.711 created their own businesses, 0:22:20.711,0:22:23.359 put their own ingenuity behind incredible ideas. 0:22:23.359,0:22:25.585 If they put their ideas and their brain 0:22:25.585,0:22:28.118 behind philanthropy, they can change the world. 0:22:28.118,0:22:30.409 And they start to see others doing it, and saying, 0:22:30.409,0:22:32.449 "Wow, I want to do that with my own money." 0:22:32.449,0:22:34.493 To me, that's the piece that's incredible. 0:22:34.493,0:22:37.411 CA: It seems to me, it's actually really hard 0:22:37.411,0:22:38.657 for some people to figure out 0:22:38.657,0:22:41.340 even how to remotely spend that much money 0:22:41.340,0:22:43.513 on something else. 0:22:43.513,0:22:45.606 There are probably some billionaires in the room 0:22:45.606,0:22:47.715 and certainly some successful people. 0:22:47.715,0:22:49.775 I'm curious, can you make the pitch? 0:22:49.775,0:22:51.009 What's the pitch? 0:22:51.009,0:22:52.390 BG: Well, it's the most fulfilling thing 0:22:52.390,0:22:53.872 we've ever done, 0:22:53.872,0:22:56.842 and you can't take it with you, 0:22:56.842,0:23:00.024 and if it's not good for your kids, 0:23:00.024,0:23:01.313 let's get together and brainstorm 0:23:01.313,0:23:04.000 about what we can be done. 0:23:04.000,0:23:06.190 The world is a far better place 0:23:06.190,0:23:08.828 because of the philanthropists of the past, 0:23:08.828,0:23:11.861 and the U.S. tradition here, which is the strongest, 0:23:11.861,0:23:13.212 is the envy of the world. 0:23:13.212,0:23:15.130 And part of the reason I'm so optimistic 0:23:15.130,0:23:17.074 is because I do think philanthropy 0:23:17.074,0:23:18.688 is going to grow 0:23:18.688,0:23:19.807 and take some of these things 0:23:19.807,0:23:22.706 government's not just good at[br]working on and discovering 0:23:22.706,0:23:26.176 and shine some light in the right direction. 0:23:26.176,0:23:29.118 CA: The world's got this terrible inequality, 0:23:29.118,0:23:30.279 growing inequality problem 0:23:30.279,0:23:31.740 that seems structural. 0:23:31.740,0:23:34.606 It does seem to me that if more of your peers 0:23:34.606,0:23:36.982 took the approach that you two have made, 0:23:36.982,0:23:38.574 it would make a dent 0:23:38.574,0:23:39.840 both in that problem and certainly 0:23:39.840,0:23:41.440 in the perception of that problem. 0:23:41.440,0:23:42.844 Is that a fair comment? 0:23:42.844,0:23:44.502 BG: Oh yeah. If you take from the most wealthy 0:23:44.502,0:23:47.834 and give to the least wealthy, it's good. 0:23:47.834,0:23:49.966 It tries to balance out, and that's just. 0:23:49.966,0:23:51.722 MG: But you change systems. 0:23:51.722,0:23:54.335 In the U.S., we're trying to[br]change the education system 0:23:54.335,0:23:56.403 so it's just for everybody 0:23:56.403,0:23:57.960 and it works for all students. 0:23:57.960,0:23:59.850 I mean that, to me, really changes 0:23:59.850,0:24:01.007 the inequality balance. 0:24:01.007,0:24:02.589 BG: That's the most important. 0:24:02.589,0:24:06.137 (Applause) 0:24:06.137,0:24:09.552 CA: Well, I really think that most people here 0:24:09.552,0:24:11.057 and many millions around the world 0:24:11.057,0:24:13.756 are just in awe of the trajectory 0:24:13.756,0:24:15.154 your lives have taken 0:24:15.154,0:24:18.675 and the spectacular degree to which 0:24:18.675,0:24:21.000 you have shaped the future. 0:24:21.000,0:24:22.340 Thank you so much for coming to TED 0:24:22.340,0:24:23.801 and for sharing with us and for all you do. 0:24:23.801,0:24:25.737 BG: Thank you.[br]MG: Thank you. 0:24:25.737,0:24:28.524 (Applause) 0:24:34.515,0:24:38.910 BG: Thank you.[br]MG: Thank you very much. 0:24:38.910,0:24:43.081 BG: All right, good job. (Applause)