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Chris Anderson: So this is an
interview with a difference,

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on the basis that a picture
is worth a thousand words.

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What I did was, I asked Bill and Melinda

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to dig out from their archive

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some images that would help explain

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some of what they've done,

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and do a few things that way.

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So we're going to start here.

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Melinda, when and where was this,

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and who is that handsome man next to you?

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Melinda Gates: With those big glasses, huh?

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This is in Africa, our very first trip,

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the first time either of us had ever been to Africa,

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in the fall of 1993.

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We were already engaged to be married.

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We married a few months later,

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and this was the trip where we really went to see

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the animals and to see the Savanna.

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It was incredible. Bill had never taken that much time

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off from work.

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But what really touched us actually were the people,

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and the extreme poverty.

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We started asking ourselves questions.

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Does it have to be like this?

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And at the end of the trip,

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we went out to Zanzibar,

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and took some time to walk on the beach,

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which is something we had done a lot

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while we were dating.

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And we'd already been talking about during that time

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that the wealth that had come from Microsoft

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would be given back to society,

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but it was really on that beach walk

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that we started to talk about, well,

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what might we do and how might we go about it?

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CA: So given that this vacation

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led to the creation of, I guess,

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the world's biggest private foundation,

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it's pretty expensive as vacations go.

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MG: I guess so. We enjoyed it.

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CA: I mean, which of you
was the key instigator here,

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or was it symmetrical?

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Bill Gates: Well, I think we were excited

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that there'd be a phase of our life

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where we'd get to work together

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and figure out how to give this money back.

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At this stage, we were talking about the poorest,

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and could you have a big impact on them?

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Were there things that weren't being done?

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There was a lot we didn't know.

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Our naïveté is pretty incredible,

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when we look back on it.

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But we had a certain enthusiasm

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that that would be the phase,

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the post-Microsoft phase

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would be our philanthropy.

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MG: Which Bill always thought was going to come

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after he was 60,

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so he hasn't quite hit 60 yet,

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so some things change along the way.

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CA: So it started there, but it got accelerated.

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So that was '93, and it was '97, really,

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before the foundation itself started.

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MA: Yeah, in '97, we read an article

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about diarrheal diseases killing
so many kids around the world,

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and we kept saying to ourselves,

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"Well that can't be.

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In the U.S., you just go down to the drug store."

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And so we started gathering scientists

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and started learning about population,

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learning about vaccines,

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learning about what had worked and what had failed,

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and that was really when we got going,

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was in late 1998, 1999.

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CA: So you've got a big pot of money

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and a world full of so many different issues.

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How on earth do you decide what to focus on?

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BG: Well, we decided that we'd pick two causes,

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whatever the biggest inequity was globally,

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and there we looked at children dying,

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children not having enough nutrition to ever develop,

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and countries that were really stuck,

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because with that level of death,

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and parents would have so many kids

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that they'd get huge population growth,

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and that the kids were so sick

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that they really couldn't be educated

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and lift themselves up.

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So that was our global thing,

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and then in the U.S.,

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both of us have had amazing educations,

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and we saw that as the way that the U.S.

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could live up to its promise of equal opportunity

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is by having a phenomenal education system,

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and the more we learned, the more we realized

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we're not really fulfilling that promise.

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And so we picked those two things,

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and everything the foundation does

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are focused there.

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CA: So I asked each of you to pick an image

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that you like that illustrates you work,

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and Melinda, this is what you picked.

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What's this about?

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MG: So I, one of the things I love to do when I travel

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is to go out to the rural areas and talk to the women,

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whether it's Bangladesh, India,
lots of countries in Africa,

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and I go in as a Western woman without a name.

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I don't tell them who I am. Pair of khakis.

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And I kept hearing from women,

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over and over and over, the more I travelled,

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"I want to be able to use this shot."

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I would be there to talk to them
about childhood vaccines,

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and they would bring the conversation around to

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"But what about the shot I get?"

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which is an injection they were
getting called Depo-Provera,

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which is a contraceptive.

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And I would come back and
talk to global health experts,

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and they'd say, "Oh no, contraceptives

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are stocked in in the developing world."

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Well, you had to dig deeper into the reports,

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and this is what the team came to me with,

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which is, to have the number one thing

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that women tell you in Africa they want to use

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stocked out more than 200 days a year

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explains why women were saying to me,

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"I walked 10 kilometers without
my husband knowing it,

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and I got to the clinic, and there was nothing there."

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And so condoms were stocked in in Africa

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because of all the AIDS work that the U.S.

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and others supported.

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But women will tell you over and over again,

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"I can't negotiate a condom with my husband.

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I'm either suggesting he has AIDS or I have AIDS,

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and I need that tool because then I can space

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the births of my children, and I can feed them

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and have a chance of educating them."

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CA: Melinda, you're Roman Catholic,

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and you've often been embroiled

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in controversy over this issue,

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and on the abortion question,

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on both sides, really.

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How do you navigate that?

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MG: Yeah, so I think that's a really important point,

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which is, we had backed away from contraceptives

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as a global community.

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We knew that 210 million women

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were saying they wanted access to contraceptives,

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even the contraceptives we have
here in the United States,

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and we weren't providing them

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because of the political controversy in our country,

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and to me that was just a crime,

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and I kept looking around trying to find the person

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that would get this back on the global stage,

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and I finally realized I just had to do it.

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And even though I'm Catholic,

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I believe in contraceptives

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just like most of the Catholic
women in the United States

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who report using contraceptives,

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and I shouldn't let that controversy

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be the thing that holds us back.

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We used to have consensus in the United States

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around contraceptives,

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and so we got back to that global consensus,

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and actually raised 2.6 billion dollars

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around exactly this issue for women.

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(Applause)

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CA: Bill, this is your graph. What's this about?

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BG: Well, my graph has numbers on it.

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(Laughter)

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I really like this graph.

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This is the number of children

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who die before the age of five every year.

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And what you find is really

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a phenomenal success story

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which is not widely known,

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that we are making incredible progress.

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We go from 20 million

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not long after I was born

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to now we're down to about six million.

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So this is a story

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largely of vaccines.

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Smallpox was killing a couple million kids a year.

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That was eradicated, so that got down to zero.

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Measles was killing a couple million a year.

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That's down to a few hundred thousand.

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Anyway, this is a chart

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where you want to get that number to continue,

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and it's going to be possible,

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using the science of new vaccines,

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getting the vaccines out to kids.

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We can actually accelerate the progress.

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The last decade,

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that number has dropped faster

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than ever in history,

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and so I just love the fact that

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you can say, okay, if we can invent new vaccines,

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we can get them out there,

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use the very latest understanding of these things,

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and get the delivery right, that
we can perform a miracle.

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CA: I mean, you do the math on this,

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and it works out I think literally

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to thousands of kids' lives saved every day

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compared to the prior year.

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It's not reported.

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An airliner with 200-plus deaths

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is a far, far bigger story than that.

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Does that drive you crazy?

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BG: Yeah, because it's a silent thing going on.

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It's a kid, one kid at a time.

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Ninety-eight percent of this

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has nothing to do with natural disasters,

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and yet, people's charity,

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when they see a natural disaster, are wonderful.

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It's incredible how people think, okay,

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that could be me, and the money flows.

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These causes have been a bit invisible.

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Now that the Millennium Development Goals

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and various things are getting out there,

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we are seeing some increased generosity,

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so the goal is to get this well below a million,

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which should be possible in our lifetime.

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CA: Maybe it needed someone

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who is turned on by numbers and graphs

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rather than just the big, sad face

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to get engaged.

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I mean, you've used it in your letter this year,

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you used basically this argument to say that aid,

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contrary to the current meme

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that aid is kind of worthless and broken,

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that actually it has been effective.

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BG: Yeah, well people can take,

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there is some aid that was well-meaning

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and didn't go well.

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There's some venture capital investments

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that were well-meaning and didn't go well.

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You shouldn't just say, okay, because of that,

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because we don't have a perfect record,

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this is a bad endeavor.

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You should look at, what was your goal?

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How are you trying to uplift nutrition

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and survival and literacy

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so these countries can take care of themselves,

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and say wow, this is going well,

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and be smarter.

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We can spend aid smarter.

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It is not all a panacea.

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We can do better than venture capital, I think,

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including big hits like this.

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CA: Traditional wisdom is that

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it's pretty hard for married couples to work together.

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How have you guys managed it?

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MG: Yeah, I've had a lot of women say to me,

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"I really don't think I could work with my husband.

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That just wouldn't work out."

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You know, we enjoy it, and we don't,

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this foundation has been a coming to for both of us

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in its continuous learning journey,

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and we don't travel together as much

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for the foundation actually as we used to

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when Bill was working at Microsoft.

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We have more trips where
we're traveling separately,

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but I always know when I come home,

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Bill's going to be interested in what I learned,

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whether it's about women or girls

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00:10:22,533 --> 00:10:25,219
or something new about the vaccine delivery chain,

266
00:10:25,219 --> 00:10:27,455
or this person that is a great leader.

267
00:10:27,455 --> 00:10:29,922
He's going to listen and be really interested.

268
00:10:29,922 --> 00:10:31,525
And he knows when he comes home,

269
00:10:31,525 --> 00:10:33,358
even if it's to talk about the speech he did

270
00:10:33,358 --> 00:10:35,100
or the data or what he's learned,

271
00:10:35,100 --> 00:10:36,342
I'm really interested,

272
00:10:36,342 --> 00:10:39,242
and I think we have a really
collaborative relationship.

273
00:10:39,242 --> 00:10:41,916
But we don't every minute together, that's for sure.

274
00:10:41,916 --> 00:10:46,091
(Laughter)

275
00:10:46,091 --> 00:10:48,586
CA: But now you are. I'm very happy you are.

276
00:10:48,586 --> 00:10:52,172
Melinda, early on, you were basically

277
00:10:52,172 --> 00:10:54,173
largely running the show.

278
00:10:54,173 --> 00:10:55,385
Six years ago, I guess,

279
00:10:55,385 --> 00:10:57,968
Bill came on full time, so moved from Microsoft

280
00:10:57,968 --> 00:10:59,079
and became full time.

281
00:10:59,079 --> 00:11:00,058
That must have been hard,

282
00:11:00,058 --> 00:11:02,094
adjusting to that. No?

283
00:11:02,094 --> 00:11:05,148
MG: Yeah. I think actually,

284
00:11:05,148 --> 00:11:07,137
for the foundation employees,

285
00:11:07,137 --> 00:11:09,684
there was way more angst for them

286
00:11:09,684 --> 00:11:11,050
than there was for them than
there was for me about Bill coming.

287
00:11:11,050 --> 00:11:12,256
I was actually really excited.

288
00:11:12,256 --> 00:11:13,875
I mean, Bill made this decision

289
00:11:13,875 --> 00:11:16,558
even obviously before it got announced in 2006,

290
00:11:16,558 --> 00:11:18,260
and it was really his decision,

291
00:11:18,260 --> 00:11:20,146
but again, it was a beach vacation

292
00:11:20,146 --> 00:11:21,450
where we were walking on the beach

293
00:11:21,450 --> 00:11:23,714
and he was starting to think of this idea.

294
00:11:23,714 --> 00:11:26,326
And for me, the excitement of Bill

295
00:11:26,326 --> 00:11:29,035
putting his brain and his heart

296
00:11:29,035 --> 00:11:31,382
against these huge global problems,

297
00:11:31,382 --> 00:11:33,710
these inequities, to me that was exciting.

298
00:11:33,710 --> 00:11:37,444
Yes, the foundation employees had angst about that.

299
00:11:37,444 --> 00:11:39,119
(Applause)

300
00:11:39,119 --> 00:11:41,235
CA: That's cool.

301
00:11:41,235 --> 00:11:42,919
MG: But that went away within three months,

302
00:11:42,919 --> 00:11:43,846
once that was there.

303
00:11:43,846 --> 00:11:45,511
BG: Including some of the employees.

304
00:11:45,511 --> 00:11:46,784
MG: That's what I said, the employees,

305
00:11:46,784 --> 00:11:48,906
it went away for them three
months after you were there.

306
00:11:48,906 --> 00:11:51,226
BG: No, I'm kidding.
MG: Oh, you mean, the employees didn't go away.

307
00:11:51,226 --> 00:11:53,127
BG: A few of them did, but—

308
00:11:53,127 --> 00:11:54,960
(Laughter)

309
00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:56,903
CA: So what do you guys argue about?

310
00:11:56,903 --> 00:11:59,560
Like, you know, Sunday, 11 o'clock,

311
00:11:59,560 --> 00:12:00,981
you're away from work,

312
00:12:00,981 --> 00:12:03,494
what comes up? What's the argument?

313
00:12:03,494 --> 00:12:05,139
BG: You know, because we built this thing

314
00:12:05,139 --> 00:12:08,258
together from the beginning,

315
00:12:08,258 --> 00:12:09,904
it's this great partnership.

316
00:12:09,904 --> 00:12:11,758
You know, I had that with Paul Allen

317
00:12:11,758 --> 00:12:13,669
in the early days of Microsoft.

318
00:12:13,669 --> 00:12:16,481
I had it with Steve Ballmer as Microsoft got bigger,

319
00:12:16,481 --> 00:12:19,485
and now Melinda, and in even stronger,

320
00:12:19,485 --> 00:12:21,371
equal ways, is the partner,

321
00:12:21,371 --> 00:12:23,128
so we talk a lot about

322
00:12:23,128 --> 00:12:25,256
which things should we give more to,

323
00:12:25,256 --> 00:12:27,800
which groups are working well?

324
00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:29,053
You know, she's got a lot of insight.

325
00:12:29,053 --> 00:12:30,700
She'll sit down with the employees a lot.

326
00:12:30,700 --> 00:12:32,816
We'll take the different trips she described.

327
00:12:32,816 --> 00:12:36,433
So there's a lot of collaboration.

328
00:12:36,433 --> 00:12:38,409
I can't think of anything where one of us

329
00:12:38,409 --> 00:12:41,679
had a super-strong opinion

330
00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:43,515
about one thing or another?

331
00:12:43,515 --> 00:12:46,317
CA: How about you, Melinda?

332
00:12:46,317 --> 00:12:47,533
You never know. (Laughter)

333
00:12:47,533 --> 00:12:49,059
MG: Well, here's the thing.

334
00:12:49,059 --> 00:12:50,798
We come at things from different angles,

335
00:12:50,798 --> 00:12:52,730
and I actually think that's really good.

336
00:12:52,730 --> 00:12:54,738
So Bill can look at the big data

337
00:12:54,738 --> 00:12:57,750
and say, "I want to act based
on these global statistics."

338
00:12:57,750 --> 00:12:59,616
For me, I come at it from intuition.

339
00:12:59,616 --> 00:13:01,549
I meet with lots of people on the ground

340
00:13:01,549 --> 00:13:03,529
and Bill's taught me to take that

341
00:13:03,529 --> 00:13:06,152
and read up to the global data and see if they match,

342
00:13:06,152 --> 00:13:07,241
and I think what I've taught him

343
00:13:07,241 --> 00:13:08,669
is to take that data

344
00:13:08,669 --> 00:13:10,283
and meet with people on the ground to understand,

345
00:13:10,283 --> 00:13:12,667
can you actually deliver that vaccine?

346
00:13:12,667 --> 00:13:15,868
Can you get a woman to accept those polio drops

347
00:13:15,868 --> 00:13:17,198
in her child's mouth?

348
00:13:17,198 --> 00:13:18,756
Because the delivery piece

349
00:13:18,756 --> 00:13:20,959
is every bit as important as the science.

350
00:13:20,959 --> 00:13:23,671
So I think it's been more a coming to over time

351
00:13:23,671 --> 00:13:24,656
towards each other's point of view,

352
00:13:24,656 --> 00:13:28,046
and quite frankly, the work is better because of it.

353
00:13:28,046 --> 00:13:30,229
CA: So I mean, in vaccines, and polio and so forth,

354
00:13:30,229 --> 00:13:34,118
you've had some amazing successes.

355
00:13:34,118 --> 00:13:35,350
What about failure, though?

356
00:13:35,350 --> 00:13:37,041
Can you talk about a failure

357
00:13:37,041 --> 00:13:39,137
and maybe what you've learned from it?

358
00:13:39,137 --> 00:13:41,705
BG: Yeah. Fortunately, we can afford a few failures,

359
00:13:41,705 --> 00:13:43,842
because we've certainly had them.

360
00:13:43,842 --> 00:13:48,216
We do a lot of drug work or vaccine work

361
00:13:48,216 --> 00:13:51,492
that you know you're going to have different failures.

362
00:13:51,492 --> 00:13:53,649
Like, we put out one that got a lot of publicity,

363
00:13:53,649 --> 00:13:55,020
was asking for a better condom.

364
00:13:55,020 --> 00:13:56,514
Well, we got hundreds of ideas.

365
00:13:56,514 --> 00:13:59,708
Maybe a few of those will work out.

366
00:13:59,708 --> 00:14:03,087
We were very naïve, certainly I was, about a drug

367
00:14:03,087 --> 00:14:05,703
for a disease in India, visceral leishmaniasis,

368
00:14:05,703 --> 00:14:07,354
that I thought, once I got this drug,

369
00:14:07,354 --> 00:14:08,710
we can just go wipe out the disease.

370
00:14:08,710 --> 00:14:11,290
Well, turns out it took an injection

371
00:14:11,290 --> 00:14:12,926
every day for 10 days.

372
00:14:12,926 --> 00:14:15,313
It took three more years to get it than we expected,

373
00:14:15,313 --> 00:14:16,771
and then there was no way

374
00:14:16,771 --> 00:14:19,139
it was going to get out there.

375
00:14:19,139 --> 00:14:20,358
Fortunately, we found out

376
00:14:20,358 --> 00:14:23,520
that if you go kill the sand flies,

377
00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:25,642
you probably can have success there,

378
00:14:25,642 --> 00:14:27,497
but we spent five years,

379
00:14:27,497 --> 00:14:28,875
you could say wasted five years,

380
00:14:28,875 --> 00:14:30,882
and about 60 million,

381
00:14:30,882 --> 00:14:32,222
on a path that turned out to have

382
00:14:32,222 --> 00:14:36,387
very modest benefit when we got there.

383
00:14:36,387 --> 00:14:39,831
CA: You're spending, like, a billion dollars a year

384
00:14:39,831 --> 00:14:41,766
in education, I think, something like that.

385
00:14:41,766 --> 00:14:45,790
Is anything, the story of what's gone right there

386
00:14:45,790 --> 00:14:48,246
is quite a long and complex one.

387
00:14:48,246 --> 00:14:52,168
Are there any failures you can talk about?

388
00:14:52,168 --> 00:14:53,908
MG: Well I would say a huge lesson for us

389
00:14:53,908 --> 00:14:55,206
out of the early work is we thought

390
00:14:55,206 --> 00:14:57,739
that these small schools were the answer,

391
00:14:57,739 --> 00:14:59,209
and small schools definitely help.

392
00:14:59,209 --> 00:15:00,733
They bring down the dropout rate.

393
00:15:00,733 --> 00:15:03,333
They have less violence and crime in those schools.

394
00:15:03,333 --> 00:15:05,479
But the thing that we learned from that work,

395
00:15:05,479 --> 00:15:08,013
and what turned out to be the fundamental key,

396
00:15:08,013 --> 00:15:10,077
is a great teacher in front of the classroom.

397
00:15:10,077 --> 00:15:11,684
If you don't have an effective teacher

398
00:15:11,684 --> 00:15:12,750
in the front of the classroom,

399
00:15:12,750 --> 00:15:14,906
I don't care how big or small the building is,

400
00:15:14,906 --> 00:15:16,560
you're not going to change the trajectory

401
00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:18,513
of whether that student will be ready for college.

402
00:15:18,513 --> 00:15:23,108
(Applause)

403
00:15:23,108 --> 00:15:25,418
CA: So Melinda, this is you and

404
00:15:25,418 --> 00:15:28,972
your eldest daughter, Jenny.

405
00:15:28,972 --> 00:15:30,871
And just taken about three weeks ago, I think,

406
00:15:30,871 --> 00:15:32,455
three or four weeks ago. Where was this?

407
00:15:32,455 --> 00:15:34,211
MG: So we went to Tanzania.

408
00:15:34,211 --> 00:15:35,053
Jen's been to Tanzania.

409
00:15:35,053 --> 00:15:37,756
All our kids have been to Africa quite a bit, actually.

410
00:15:37,756 --> 00:15:39,971
And we did something very different,

411
00:15:39,971 --> 00:15:41,798
which is, we decided to go spend

412
00:15:41,798 --> 00:15:44,217
two nights and three days with a family.

413
00:15:44,217 --> 00:15:47,318
Ana and Sanari are the parents.

414
00:15:47,318 --> 00:15:50,352
They invited us to come and stay in their boma.

415
00:15:50,352 --> 00:15:51,851
Actually, the goats had been there, I think,

416
00:15:51,851 --> 00:15:53,250
living in that particular little hut

417
00:15:53,250 --> 00:15:55,921
on their little compound before we got there.

418
00:15:55,921 --> 00:15:57,419
And we stayed with their family,

419
00:15:57,419 --> 00:15:59,353
and we really, really learned

420
00:15:59,353 --> 00:16:01,206
what life is like in rural Tanzania.

421
00:16:01,206 --> 00:16:02,820
And the difference between just going

422
00:16:02,820 --> 00:16:04,539
and visiting for half a day

423
00:16:04,539 --> 00:16:06,001
or three quarters of a day

424
00:16:06,001 --> 00:16:08,399
versus staying overnight was profound,

425
00:16:08,399 --> 00:16:11,890
and so let me just give you one explanation of that.

426
00:16:11,890 --> 00:16:14,019
They had six children, and as I talked to Ana

427
00:16:14,019 --> 00:16:15,794
in the kitchen, we cooked for about five hours

428
00:16:15,794 --> 00:16:17,437
in the cooking hut that day,

429
00:16:17,437 --> 00:16:19,248
and as I talked to her, she had absolutely planned

430
00:16:19,248 --> 00:16:20,718
and spaced with her husband

431
00:16:20,718 --> 00:16:22,155
the births of their children.

432
00:16:22,155 --> 00:16:23,810
It was a very loving relationship.

433
00:16:23,810 --> 00:16:26,113
This was a Masai warrior and his wife,

434
00:16:26,113 --> 00:16:28,022
but they had decided to get married,

435
00:16:28,022 --> 00:16:31,357
they clearly had respect and love in the relationship.

436
00:16:31,357 --> 00:16:32,968
Their children, their six children,

437
00:16:32,968 --> 00:16:35,487
the two in the middle were twins, 13,

438
00:16:35,487 --> 00:16:37,740
a boy and a girl named Grace.

439
00:16:37,740 --> 00:16:39,313
And then, when we'd go out to chop wood

440
00:16:39,313 --> 00:16:41,748
and do all the things that Grace
and her mother would do,

441
00:16:41,748 --> 00:16:44,340
Grace was not a child, she was an adolescent,

442
00:16:44,340 --> 00:16:45,817
but she wasn't an adult.

443
00:16:45,817 --> 00:16:47,568
She was very, very shy.

444
00:16:47,568 --> 00:16:49,329
So she kept wanting to talk to me and Jen.

445
00:16:49,329 --> 00:16:52,164
We kept trying to engage her, but she was shy.

446
00:16:52,164 --> 00:16:53,770
And at night, though,

447
00:16:53,770 --> 00:16:56,577
when all the lights went out in rural Tanzania,

448
00:16:56,577 --> 00:16:58,081
and there was no moon that night,

449
00:16:58,081 --> 00:16:59,803
the first night, and no stars,

450
00:16:59,803 --> 00:17:01,629
and Jen came out of our hut

451
00:17:01,629 --> 00:17:04,446
with her REI little headlamp on,

452
00:17:04,446 --> 00:17:06,584
Grace went immediately,

453
00:17:06,584 --> 00:17:07,940
and got the translator,

454
00:17:07,940 --> 00:17:10,030
came straight up to my Jen and said,

455
00:17:10,030 --> 00:17:11,263
"When you go home,

456
00:17:11,263 --> 00:17:12,438
can I have your headlamp

457
00:17:12,438 --> 00:17:14,688
so I can study at night?"

458
00:17:14,688 --> 00:17:15,250
CA: Oh, wow.

459
00:17:15,250 --> 00:17:16,734
MG: And her dad had told me

460
00:17:16,734 --> 00:17:18,821
how afraid he was that unlike the son,

461
00:17:18,821 --> 00:17:20,483
who had passed his secondary exams,

462
00:17:20,483 --> 00:17:22,013
because of her chores,

463
00:17:22,013 --> 00:17:23,451
she'd not done so well

464
00:17:23,451 --> 00:17:25,555
and wasn't in the government school yet.

465
00:17:25,555 --> 00:17:27,530
He said, "I don't know how I'm
going to pay for her education.

466
00:17:27,530 --> 00:17:29,616
I can't pay for private school,

467
00:17:29,616 --> 00:17:32,195
and she may end up on this farm like my wife."

468
00:17:32,195 --> 00:17:33,324
So they know the difference

469
00:17:33,324 --> 00:17:34,349
that an education can make

470
00:17:34,349 --> 00:17:37,346
in a huge, profound way.

471
00:17:37,346 --> 00:17:38,767
CA: I mean, this is another picture

472
00:17:38,767 --> 00:17:42,173
of your other two kids, Rory and Phoebe,

473
00:17:42,173 --> 00:17:46,311
along with Paul Farmer.

474
00:17:46,311 --> 00:17:47,925
Bringing up three children

475
00:17:47,925 --> 00:17:50,927
when you're the world's richest family

476
00:17:50,927 --> 00:17:53,223
seems like a social experiment

477
00:17:53,223 --> 00:17:56,795
without much prior art.

478
00:17:56,795 --> 00:17:58,330
How have you managed it?

479
00:17:58,330 --> 00:18:00,545
What's been your approach?

480
00:18:00,545 --> 00:18:03,798
BG: Well, I'd say yeah, overall,

481
00:18:03,798 --> 00:18:04,940
the kids get a great education,

482
00:18:04,940 --> 00:18:05,838
but you've got to make sure

483
00:18:05,838 --> 00:18:07,540
they have a sense of their own ability

484
00:18:07,540 --> 00:18:09,529
and what they're going to and do,

485
00:18:09,529 --> 00:18:11,902
and our philosophy has been, you know,

486
00:18:11,902 --> 00:18:13,004
to be very clear with them:

487
00:18:13,004 --> 00:18:14,669
most of the money's going to the foundation,

488
00:18:14,669 --> 00:18:19,010
and help them find something they're excited about.

489
00:18:19,010 --> 00:18:20,405
We want to strike a balance where they have

490
00:18:20,405 --> 00:18:22,198
the freedom to do anything

491
00:18:22,198 --> 00:18:25,538
but not, sort of, a lot of money showered on them

492
00:18:25,538 --> 00:18:28,667
so they could go out and do nothing.

493
00:18:28,667 --> 00:18:31,645
And so far, they're fairly diligent,

494
00:18:31,645 --> 00:18:34,829
excited to pick their own direction.

495
00:18:34,829 --> 00:18:36,243
CA: I mean, you've obviously

496
00:18:36,243 --> 00:18:40,421
guarded their privacy carefully for obvious reasons.

497
00:18:40,421 --> 00:18:42,615
I'm curious why you've given me permission

498
00:18:42,615 --> 00:18:44,420
to show this picture now here at TED.

499
00:18:44,420 --> 00:18:45,097
MG: Well, it's interesting.

500
00:18:45,097 --> 00:18:47,218
As they get older, they so know

501
00:18:47,218 --> 00:18:50,227
that our family belief is about responsibility,

502
00:18:50,227 --> 00:18:52,342
that we are in an unbelievable situation

503
00:18:52,342 --> 00:18:53,960
just to live in the United States

504
00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:55,651
and have a great education,

505
00:18:55,651 --> 00:18:57,699
and we have a responsibility
to give back to the world.

506
00:18:57,699 --> 00:18:58,752
And so as they get older

507
00:18:58,752 --> 00:18:59,772
and we are teaching them

508
00:18:59,772 --> 00:19:01,952
— they have been to so many
countries around the world —

509
00:19:01,952 --> 00:19:03,474
they're saying, you know,

510
00:19:03,474 --> 00:19:05,016
we do want people to know that we believe

511
00:19:05,016 --> 00:19:06,517
in what you're doing, mom and dad,

512
00:19:06,517 --> 00:19:08,478
and it is okay to show us more.

513
00:19:08,478 --> 00:19:11,130
So we have their permission to show this picture,

514
00:19:11,130 --> 00:19:12,845
and I think Paul Farmer is probably going to put it

515
00:19:12,845 --> 00:19:15,300
eventually in some of his work.

516
00:19:15,300 --> 00:19:16,902
But they really care deeply

517
00:19:16,902 --> 00:19:19,327
about the mission of the foundation, too.

518
00:19:19,327 --> 00:19:21,249
CA: I mean, you've easily got enough money

519
00:19:21,249 --> 00:19:23,840
despite your vast contributions to the foundation

520
00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:25,474
to make them all billionaires.

521
00:19:25,474 --> 00:19:26,991
Is that your plan for them?

522
00:19:26,991 --> 00:19:29,327
BG: Nope. No. They won't have anything like that.

523
00:19:29,327 --> 00:19:31,262
They need to have a sense

524
00:19:31,262 --> 00:19:37,798
that their own work is meaningful and important.

525
00:19:37,798 --> 00:19:41,270
We read an article long, actually,
before we got married,

526
00:19:41,270 --> 00:19:43,915
where Warren Buffett talked about that,

527
00:19:43,915 --> 00:19:45,984
and we're quite convinced that it wasn't a favor

528
00:19:45,984 --> 00:19:49,418
either to society or to the kids.

529
00:19:49,418 --> 00:19:51,486
CA: Well speaking of Warren Buffett,

530
00:19:51,486 --> 00:19:54,150
something really amazing happened in 2006,

531
00:19:54,150 --> 00:19:56,910
when somehow your only real rival

532
00:19:56,910 --> 00:19:58,662
for richest person in America

533
00:19:58,662 --> 00:20:00,032
suddenly turned around and agreed to give

534
00:20:00,032 --> 00:20:02,625
80 percent of his fortune

535
00:20:02,625 --> 00:20:04,342
to your foundation.

536
00:20:04,342 --> 00:20:06,078
How on Earth did that happen?

537
00:20:06,078 --> 00:20:08,056
I guess there's a long version
and a short version of that.

538
00:20:08,056 --> 00:20:09,438
We've got time for the short version.

539
00:20:09,438 --> 00:20:13,193
BG: All right. Well Warren was a close friend,

540
00:20:13,193 --> 00:20:17,850
and he was going to have his wife Suzie

541
00:20:17,850 --> 00:20:19,405
give it all away.

542
00:20:19,405 --> 00:20:22,846
Tragically, she passed away before he did,

543
00:20:22,846 --> 00:20:26,444
and he's big on delegation, and

544
00:20:26,444 --> 00:20:28,602
— (Laughter) —

545
00:20:28,602 --> 00:20:30,013
he said—

546
00:20:30,013 --> 00:20:30,868
CA: Tweet that.

547
00:20:30,868 --> 00:20:34,029
BG: — you know, if he's got somebody
who is doing something well,

548
00:20:34,029 --> 00:20:38,486
and is willing to do it at no charge,

549
00:20:38,486 --> 00:20:40,864
maybe that's okay. But we were stunned.

550
00:20:40,864 --> 00:20:42,960
MG: Totally stunned.
BG: We had never expected it,

551
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:44,525
and it has been unbelievable.

552
00:20:44,525 --> 00:20:47,665
It's allowed us to increase our ambition

553
00:20:47,665 --> 00:20:51,282
in what the foundation is to do quite dramatically.

554
00:20:51,282 --> 00:20:52,786
Half the resources we have

555
00:20:52,786 --> 00:20:55,670
come from Warren's mind-blowing generosity.

556
00:20:55,670 --> 00:20:56,554
CA: And I think you've pledged that

557
00:20:56,554 --> 00:20:58,344
by the time you're done,

558
00:20:58,344 --> 00:21:00,222
more than, or 95 percent of your wealth,

559
00:21:00,222 --> 00:21:02,387
will be given to the foundation.

560
00:21:02,387 --> 00:21:03,141
BG: Yes.

561
00:21:03,141 --> 00:21:07,020
CA: And since this relationship, it's amazing—

562
00:21:07,020 --> 00:21:10,386
(Applause)

563
00:21:10,386 --> 00:21:13,023
And recently, you and Warren

564
00:21:13,023 --> 00:21:14,903
have been going around trying to persuade

565
00:21:14,903 --> 00:21:16,879
other billionaires and successful people

566
00:21:16,879 --> 00:21:18,402
to pledge to give, what,

567
00:21:18,402 --> 00:21:24,160
more than half of their assets for philanthropy.

568
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:26,575
How is that going?

569
00:21:26,575 --> 00:21:29,747
BG: Well, we've got about 120 people

570
00:21:29,747 --> 00:21:32,185
who have now taken this giving pledge.

571
00:21:32,185 --> 00:21:34,791
The thing that's great is that we get together

572
00:21:34,791 --> 00:21:36,900
yearly and talk about, okay,

573
00:21:36,900 --> 00:21:38,865
do you hire staff and give to them?

574
00:21:38,865 --> 00:21:40,092
We're not trying to homogenize it.

575
00:21:40,092 --> 00:21:41,140
I mean, the beauty of philanthropy

576
00:21:41,140 --> 00:21:43,327
is this mind-blowing diversity.

577
00:21:43,327 --> 00:21:44,310
People give to some things.

578
00:21:44,310 --> 00:21:47,289
We look and go, "Wow."

579
00:21:47,289 --> 00:21:48,097
But that's great.

580
00:21:48,097 --> 00:21:49,226
That's the role of philanthropy

581
00:21:49,226 --> 00:21:51,713
is to pick different approaches,

582
00:21:51,713 --> 00:21:53,705
including even in one space, like education.

583
00:21:53,705 --> 00:21:56,076
We need more experimentation.

584
00:21:56,076 --> 00:21:58,980
But it's been wonderful, meeting those people,

585
00:21:58,980 --> 00:22:00,092
sharing their journey to philanthropy,

586
00:22:00,092 --> 00:22:01,204


587
00:22:01,204 --> 00:22:02,316
how they involve their kids

588
00:22:02,316 --> 00:22:04,150
where they're doing it differently,

589
00:22:04,150 --> 00:22:06,856
and it's been way more successful than we expected.

590
00:22:06,856 --> 00:22:09,551
Now it looks like it'll just keep growing in size

591
00:22:09,551 --> 00:22:12,114
in the years ahead.

592
00:22:12,114 --> 00:22:15,626
MG: And having people see that other people

593
00:22:15,626 --> 00:22:17,330
are making change with philanthropy,

594
00:22:17,330 --> 00:22:19,666
I mean, these are people who have

595
00:22:19,666 --> 00:22:20,711
created their own businesses,

596
00:22:20,711 --> 00:22:23,359
put their own ingenuity behind incredible ideas.

597
00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:25,585
If they put their ideas and their brain

598
00:22:25,585 --> 00:22:28,118
behind philanthropy, they can change the world.

599
00:22:28,118 --> 00:22:30,409
And they start to see others doing it, and saying,

600
00:22:30,409 --> 00:22:32,449
"Wow, I want to do that with my own money."

601
00:22:32,449 --> 00:22:34,493
To me, that's the piece that's incredible.

602
00:22:34,493 --> 00:22:37,411
CA: It seems to me, it's actually really hard

603
00:22:37,411 --> 00:22:38,657
for some people to figure out

604
00:22:38,657 --> 00:22:41,340
even how to remotely spend that much money

605
00:22:41,340 --> 00:22:43,513
on something else.

606
00:22:43,513 --> 00:22:45,606
There are probably some billionaires in the room

607
00:22:45,606 --> 00:22:47,715
and certainly some successful people.

608
00:22:47,715 --> 00:22:49,775
I'm curious, can you make the pitch?

609
00:22:49,775 --> 00:22:51,009
What's the pitch?

610
00:22:51,009 --> 00:22:52,390
BG: Well, it's the most fulfilling thing

611
00:22:52,390 --> 00:22:53,872
we've ever done,

612
00:22:53,872 --> 00:22:56,842
and you can't take it with you,

613
00:22:56,842 --> 00:23:00,024
and if it's not good for your kids,

614
00:23:00,024 --> 00:23:01,313
let's get together and brainstorm

615
00:23:01,313 --> 00:23:04,000
about what we can be done.

616
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,190
The world is a far better place

617
00:23:06,190 --> 00:23:08,828
because of the philanthropists of the past,

618
00:23:08,828 --> 00:23:11,861
and the U.S. tradition here, which is the strongest,

619
00:23:11,861 --> 00:23:13,212
is the envy of the world.

620
00:23:13,212 --> 00:23:15,130
And part of the reason I'm so optimistic

621
00:23:15,130 --> 00:23:17,074
is because I do think philanthropy

622
00:23:17,074 --> 00:23:18,688
is going to grow

623
00:23:18,688 --> 00:23:19,807
and take some of these things

624
00:23:19,807 --> 00:23:22,706
government's not just good at
working on and discovering

625
00:23:22,706 --> 00:23:26,176
and shine some light in the right direction.

626
00:23:26,176 --> 00:23:29,118
CA: The world's got this terrible inequality,

627
00:23:29,118 --> 00:23:30,279
growing inequality problem

628
00:23:30,279 --> 00:23:31,740
that seems structural.

629
00:23:31,740 --> 00:23:34,606
It does seem to me that if more of your peers

630
00:23:34,606 --> 00:23:36,982
took the approach that you two have made,

631
00:23:36,982 --> 00:23:38,574
it would make a dent

632
00:23:38,574 --> 00:23:39,840
both in that problem and certainly

633
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:41,440
in the perception of that problem.

634
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:42,844
Is that a fair comment?

635
00:23:42,844 --> 00:23:44,502
BG: Oh yeah. If you take from the most wealthy

636
00:23:44,502 --> 00:23:47,834
and give to the least wealthy, it's good.

637
00:23:47,834 --> 00:23:49,966
It tries to balance out, and that's just.

638
00:23:49,966 --> 00:23:51,722
MG: But you change systems.

639
00:23:51,722 --> 00:23:54,335
In the U.S., we're trying to
change the education system

640
00:23:54,335 --> 00:23:56,403
so it's just for everybody

641
00:23:56,403 --> 00:23:57,960
and it works for all students.

642
00:23:57,960 --> 00:23:59,850
I mean that, to me, really changes

643
00:23:59,850 --> 00:24:01,007
the inequality balance.

644
00:24:01,007 --> 00:24:02,589
BG: That's the most important.

645
00:24:02,589 --> 00:24:06,137
(Applause)

646
00:24:06,137 --> 00:24:09,552
CA: Well, I really think that most people here

647
00:24:09,552 --> 00:24:11,211
and many millions around the world

648
00:24:11,211 --> 00:24:13,987
are just in awe of the trajectory

649
00:24:13,987 --> 00:24:15,324
your lives have taken

650
00:24:15,324 --> 00:24:18,983
and the spectacular degree to which

651
00:24:18,983 --> 00:24:21,000
you have shaped the future.

652
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:22,340
Thank you so much for coming to TED

653
00:24:22,340 --> 00:24:23,801
and for sharing with us and for all you do.

654
00:24:23,801 --> 00:24:25,737
BG: Thank you.
MG: Thank you.

655
00:24:25,737 --> 00:24:28,524
(Applause)

656
00:24:34,977 --> 00:24:38,910
BG: Thank you.
MG: Thank you very much.

657
00:24:38,910 --> 00:24:43,081
BG: All right, good job. (Applause)