0:00:18.800,0:00:19.800
*37C3 Anspannungsmusik*

0:00:19.800,0:00:20.800
*Applaus*

0:00:20.800,0:00:24.150
Boris: All right so everybody can hear me[br]very well my name is Boris I'm part of the

0:00:24.150,0:00:27.720
ABC black cross Belarus and I will be[br]talking about tractors Rockets and the

0:00:27.720,0:00:32.680
internet and I have very short time so you[br]will see very few things of those one

0:00:32.680,0:00:37.320
thing we are in the sal g because I didn't[br]want to be in the sal z. z as it's kind of

0:00:37.320,0:00:40.200
like ideologically doesn't pass for people[br]in the Eastern Europe

0:00:40.200,0:00:46.820
*lachen, applaus*

0:00:46.820,0:00:51.780
yeah and yeah we will have like a short[br]question answer section in the end what

0:00:51.780,0:00:55.220
the [ __ ] is ABC-Belarus? Many of you[br]don't know we are like an activist

0:00:55.220,0:00:59.149
Anarchist Collective that supports for the[br]last 15 years  people who ended up in

0:00:59.149,0:01:04.390
prison fighting dictatorship in the[br]country since our existence beginning of

0:01:04.390,0:01:08.390
our existence we never had any people or[br]we never had a situation where we never

0:01:08.390,0:01:12.509
had people in the prison so people are[br]constantly in prison in Belarus in the

0:01:12.509,0:01:17.070
last 15 years fighting the dictatorship we[br]do solidarity work also with those who are

0:01:17.070,0:01:23.600
around the people who are in prisons so[br]their families and so on we also promote

0:01:23.600,0:01:27.100
we we promoting we don't have so much time[br]left anymore but before building up a

0:01:27.100,0:01:32.020
security culture so for the activists to[br]know how to go around the new mechanisms

0:01:32.020,0:01:37.460
of a dictatorship to suppress the[br]population we do collect a little bit of

0:01:37.460,0:01:41.960
data from like the courts so we see what[br]the government is using for example to

0:01:41.960,0:01:46.040
crack the laptops we see all this [ __ ][br]coming up in in the documents from time to

0:01:46.040,0:01:50.299
time and this is not a talk about our[br]group so you can check out our website and

0:01:50.299,0:01:55.860
see what is it about so tractors here they[br]are they don't always look like that

0:01:55.860,0:02:01.070
sometimes they look like that  tractors[br]are one of the important parts of like for

0:02:01.070,0:02:05.250
you to imagine how Belarusian industry[br]looks like so after collapse of the Soviet

0:02:05.250,0:02:12.340
Union Belarusia Bellarus was and remained[br]like a zone of heavy and Light Industry

0:02:12.340,0:02:19.260
production of tractors but also we had[br]industry that was connected with war or

0:02:19.260,0:02:24.190
militarism of the Soviet Union right? So[br]there are  factories that are producing

0:02:24.190,0:02:28.610
small chips for the rockets and [ __ ][br]like that and this continues so partly

0:02:28.610,0:02:33.660
Russian war industry on Belarus in[br]production of the Rockets the situation

0:02:33.660,0:02:37.920
where you know Russian Rockets hit wrong[br]Target in Ukraine also connected with the

0:02:37.920,0:02:42.360
fact that Belarusian workers are stealing[br]precious metals from the factories. So

0:02:42.360,0:02:48.319
like those produced chips are working like[br][ __ ] and we do have it but it's not like

0:02:48.319,0:02:51.810
Taiwan or something like that it's more[br]like imagine Soviet Union post Soviet

0:02:51.810,0:02:58.190
Union country that people are doing like[br]some outdated Technologies. Yeah. So those

0:02:58.190,0:03:01.680
are like the topic about the Rockets.[br]Belarus is participating in the war

0:03:01.680,0:03:07.560
efforts of Russia right now and it was[br]participating for very long in buildup to

0:03:07.560,0:03:12.909
the war so helping producing enough[br]rockets and enough of the you know like

0:03:12.909,0:03:18.270
flying [ __ ] that goes to Ukraine right[br]now. However after collapse of the Soviet

0:03:18.270,0:03:22.080
Union Belarus became also very dependent[br]and it was dependent and became dependent

0:03:22.080,0:03:26.659
on Russian resources so oil gas and all[br]this [ __ ] comes mostly from Russia

0:03:26.659,0:03:32.770
economically dependent on Russia and[br]that's politically dependent as well.

0:03:32.770,0:03:36.840
Talking about Lukashenka so belus is a[br]dictatorship that ruled by this guy, next

0:03:36.840,0:03:42.049
year is 30 years anniversary. Lukashenka[br]and Technologies he's a very special

0:03:42.049,0:03:47.079
character you can do like lectures in[br]universities about his personality I will

0:03:47.079,0:03:51.269
do a couple of quotes about how he[br]perceives Technologies and how he sees

0:03:51.269,0:03:56.069
himself in the technological World. For[br]example "we do not need an imported system

0:03:56.069,0:04:21.850
for falsifying elections we will create[br]our own one run by the State"  so he's

0:04:21.850,0:04:27.490
very close to the nature he thinks also[br]shows his like attitude to Technologies

0:04:27.490,0:04:31.380
and the last part is "I even don't have a[br]mobile phone I'm looking at other

0:04:31.380,0:04:35.770
presidents and see how they're preoccupied[br]with their iPhones I'm not doing that I

0:04:35.770,0:04:41.400
know what security is" and even more "I[br]have enough people who can do that for me"

0:04:41.400,0:04:45.280
and that's an important factor Lukashenka[br]knows how to drive a tractor, he doesn't

0:04:45.280,0:04:50.199
know how to operate iPhone most probably.[br]But he's he has this mentality that

0:04:50.199,0:04:54.370
understands okay I need enough smart[br]people around me who will help me to go

0:04:54.370,0:04:58.850
through the modern world and that's what[br]he's doing a lot so he has quite a huge

0:04:58.850,0:05:02.590
let's say cabinet of people who are[br]helping him out to figure out the modern

0:05:02.590,0:05:06.010
world in a different directions[br]politically technologically wise

0:05:06.010,0:05:11.500
economically. Although Belarus is a[br]dictatorship it is a country that was for

0:05:11.500,0:05:18.591
many years a partner of the European Union[br]it changed recently before 2020 protest

0:05:18.591,0:05:23.640
before the uprising of 2020 European Union[br]was cooperating with Belarus on the border

0:05:23.640,0:05:28.160
security what they're doing also in turkey[br]and many other authoritarian regimes so

0:05:28.160,0:05:31.680
for European politicians to protect the[br]borders build up a fences it's fine to

0:05:31.680,0:05:35.780
have like a bloody dictator that is ready[br]to kill people. So that's what European

0:05:35.780,0:05:40.230
Union was doing and that involved also[br]transaction of Technologies so for example

0:05:40.230,0:05:43.950
you go to the Belarusian border and you[br]get in controlled and you have this huge

0:05:43.950,0:05:47.660
x-ray machine that is going to x-ray your[br]car or whatever [ __ ] you have and it's

0:05:47.660,0:05:50.690
written like there's a plate that says[br]like this machine is financed by the

0:05:50.690,0:05:53.960
European Union and you think like wow[br]thank you European Union you're like

0:05:53.960,0:05:59.889
really helping democracy in Belarus. So[br]European Union was also investing a lot in

0:05:59.889,0:06:04.250
the infrastructure projects inside of the[br]country roads and [ __ ] like that this

0:06:04.250,0:06:07.539
was connected also because belus is[br]Transit country so you need a lot of

0:06:07.539,0:06:12.449
Transit between Russia and Europe not[br]anymore but before it was the case right

0:06:12.449,0:06:18.530
everybody wanted to trade with Russia a[br]lot still do. Also some countries inside

0:06:18.530,0:06:22.070
of the European Union were supporting[br]police efforts in Belarus, there was a

0:06:22.070,0:06:27.180
huge scandal in Germany that German cops[br]were bringing Belarusian Riot cops to

0:06:27.180,0:06:31.660
evictions of or like protection of[br]Gorleben transport like the nuclear waste

0:06:31.660,0:06:35.319
transport back in the days so they[br]wouldn't have like Belarusian cops hitting

0:06:35.319,0:06:39.130
you you know but they would have them like[br]just sitting next to you and and watching

0:06:39.130,0:06:43.300
how the German cops are working and that's[br]where for example Belarusian cops learned

0:06:43.300,0:06:47.380
to film everything at the demonstrations[br]or at some events so they're also running

0:06:47.380,0:06:51.310
with these cameras and filming and then[br]post factum might apply repressions to the

0:06:51.310,0:06:54.440
people who were participating in the[br]protests and some of the cameras were

0:06:54.440,0:07:02.000
donated generously by the German state to[br]the Belarusian cops. And there are many

0:07:02.000,0:07:09.680
more other money flows like ecological[br]technological also private public

0:07:09.680,0:07:14.090
everything goes in Belarus dictatorship[br]yes but I mean money you know that cross

0:07:14.090,0:07:20.130
the border easily. Very simple[br]Technologies to fight the population,

0:07:20.130,0:07:25.310
water cannons were brought from Canada so[br]we had this fancy water Canadian water

0:07:25.310,0:07:29.060
cannons I will show you how belarussian[br]people hacked those during the protests

0:07:29.060,0:07:34.100
very easy. Camera usage for documentation[br]as I was mentioning cops running around

0:07:34.100,0:07:37.780
with cameras all the time this is they[br]what they learned from the German cops

0:07:37.780,0:07:42.930
there were like a new technologies that[br]were like mobile car Shields so they bring

0:07:42.930,0:07:46.680
it up to block the whole street. Russians[br]have like bigger machines belarusians have

0:07:46.680,0:07:51.160
smaller machines but in general the idea[br]is that you you have this kind of like a a

0:07:51.160,0:07:54.819
truck that brings a huge shield and you[br]block the whole street so protesters

0:07:54.819,0:08:00.960
cannot go through it. And crowd control[br]equipment from other countries like we had

0:08:00.960,0:08:05.370
tear gas from Czech and stun grenades from[br]Czech and Israelis and so on so like

0:08:05.370,0:08:10.120
everybody were delivering and providing[br]weapons to Belarus as if it's like sure

0:08:10.120,0:08:14.900
you know we know that you doing some [ __[br]] there but have it for you. But there are

0:08:14.900,0:08:19.680
some other funny you know like hacking[br]from Belarusian state so for example here

0:08:19.680,0:08:24.340
like during the protest people were[br]putting Flags like white red white flags

0:08:24.340,0:08:31.910
which were the protest Flags [ __ ] I have[br]to put the sound in one second but it's

0:08:31.910,0:08:37.459
not really important what people was[br]laughing about him *some laughs* So yeah

0:08:37.459,0:08:41.519
this is one of the hack that this is I[br]think somebody connected with the ban

0:08:41.519,0:08:48.709
State who was trying to remove the flag[br]then we have like this  systems of

0:08:48.709,0:08:54.310
notification in the city that were used to[br]play like a patriotic music during the

0:08:54.310,0:08:59.459
protests which Belarusian state was doing[br]trying to like you know demoralize the

0:08:59.459,0:09:06.120
protest testers looks [ __ ] bizarre and[br]crazy and that was the hacking part of the

0:09:06.120,0:09:10.320
Canadian water cannon Belarusian people[br]are very creative you can see you love

0:09:10.320,0:09:15.500
hacking we all love hacking that's how you[br]hack the the water.

0:09:15.500,0:09:22.529
*Applause*

0:09:22.529,0:09:27.460
cannon. Later on they stopped using them[br]because this what happened to them when

0:09:27.460,0:09:28.870
you hack them

0:09:28.870,0:09:29.940
*Music*

0:09:29.940,0:09:39.621
yeah but they were they were very open for[br]hacking like nothing is closed you can

0:09:39.621,0:09:46.560
just open and take it away. Internet in[br]Belarus right so this is a separate topic,

0:09:46.560,0:09:50.720
we we are the country of the post Soviet[br]so we didn't have internet for very long I

0:09:50.720,0:09:55.660
think like the general consumers market[br]for the internet opened like beginning of

0:09:55.660,0:10:01.620
2000s maybe middle of 2000s I got my[br]internet connection first 2004 - 2005 so

0:10:01.620,0:10:05.930
internet is a is a is kind of like a thing[br]that was developing very slowly but then

0:10:05.930,0:10:12.620
it exploded. One of the things was for[br]example internet like U online

0:10:12.620,0:10:19.150
infrastructure was used for the protests[br]in 2005 2005 wrong date of the elections

0:10:19.150,0:10:24.930
so we had like a protest camp on the[br]streets and people set up an indymedia

0:10:24.930,0:10:30.670
media  information point which was[br]broadcasting updates online life you know.

0:10:30.670,0:10:34.170
And this was one of the first situations[br]in Belarus where the website started

0:10:34.170,0:10:38.670
getting blocked. So Belarus in IND media[br]was the first attemp of Belarusian state

0:10:38.670,0:10:42.800
to fight certain content on the internet[br]there was like mirrors there was a lot of

0:10:42.800,0:10:46.700
solidarity also from outside. So this[br]worked pretty well for the protesters

0:10:46.700,0:10:51.040
didn't work so well for the government the[br]protest was smashed, but for a lot of

0:10:51.040,0:10:54.529
people the opportunity of organizing[br]through the internet became very obvious

0:10:54.529,0:11:00.399
and people started using it in mass later[br]on Belarusian State started blocking from

0:11:00.399,0:11:05.640
2016 tour network with different success[br]of course like you can't block it with

0:11:05.640,0:11:10.680
tractors putting it on the road so you[br]need more sufficient you know like or

0:11:10.680,0:11:14.810
complicated systems and of course you[br]can't get them easily in Belarus from the

0:11:14.810,0:11:19.800
factories that are producing Rockets. You[br]can't hit the tour network with the rocket

0:11:19.800,0:11:24.740
so like they started searching for those[br]and you can see that like three years

0:11:24.740,0:11:28.000
Belarusian cops were going to security[br]congresses where like this private

0:11:28.000,0:11:33.060
companies was selling [ __ ] to anybody[br]pretty much and they were searching for

0:11:33.060,0:11:37.370
Solutions there were like for 2014 I think[br]there was a hacking team Italian hacking

0:11:37.370,0:11:41.180
team leak where we figure out that[br]Belarusian state was trying to buy

0:11:41.180,0:11:44.440
something from Italians and stuff like[br]that, right? So at the end of the day they

0:11:44.440,0:11:48.720
got some stuff in 2016 and slowly started[br]applying more and more censorship in on

0:11:48.720,0:11:52.130
the internet,  Anarchist websites[br]oppositional websites starting getting

0:11:52.130,0:11:57.560
blocked in 2020 this system like exploded[br]in Mass so we have like hundreds and

0:11:57.560,0:12:03.120
hundreds of the websites some of them like[br]you know islamist [ __ ] and and stuff

0:12:03.120,0:12:06.400
like that but some of them are legit[br]oppositional anarchists and stuff like

0:12:06.400,0:12:13.410
that that are blocked and you can't access[br]them through like a normal Network. Yeah

0:12:13.410,0:12:20.690
and right now because Belarusian state was[br]under attack for quite often from certain

0:12:20.690,0:12:25.209
groups, a lot of websites governmental[br]websites kind of created a white listing

0:12:25.209,0:12:31.430
just for belarian IPs so you can't go to[br]the belarusian state websites from outside

0:12:31.430,0:12:36.340
so a lot of people paradoxically left the[br]country live in Exile but use Belarusian

0:12:36.340,0:12:42.190
VPN to know if they're included in[br]extremist the terrorist lists. Yeah so one

0:12:42.190,0:12:45.440
more thing about Belarusian internet and[br]Belarusian like communication

0:12:45.440,0:12:49.250
infrastructure is sorm, some of you have[br]heard about it this is like a saying that

0:12:49.250,0:12:53.160
was developed for many years and there are[br]different versions of it and it's pretty

0:12:53.160,0:13:00.910
much backdoor like legal back door to put[br]into the networks of the communication

0:13:00.910,0:13:07.389
providers before it was just a smart[br]smartphone a cell network now it's also

0:13:07.389,0:13:11.460
internet Network and so on internet[br]providers you just put a black box and the

0:13:11.460,0:13:15.310
cops somewhere on the other side of the of[br]the country can have access to your

0:13:15.310,0:13:19.740
network directly and they can see all the[br]what is happening on the network and they

0:13:19.740,0:13:25.010
you know like clone easily IDs and so on[br]and so forth so they are like owning

0:13:25.010,0:13:29.580
pretty much the net the private networks[br]of the private providers also what is not

0:13:29.580,0:13:36.070
mentioned on the slides Belarusian[br]internet is in one way or another is

0:13:36.070,0:13:39.890
governmental so you have like one exit for[br]the internet to the outside world and this

0:13:39.890,0:13:43.570
is controlled by the state and all the[br]private companies that are working with

0:13:43.570,0:13:47.390
the internet are actually like renting[br]internet from the state and then reselling

0:13:47.390,0:13:52.620
it to the private biders. Internet[br]censorship so I was telling you that they

0:13:52.620,0:13:57.930
were going and buying [ __ ] on the market[br]one of the things that kind of blew out

0:13:57.930,0:14:02.930
and we figure out in 2020 was this company[br]sandvine you might have heard about it

0:14:02.930,0:14:13.500
they were selling pretty much the the gear[br]the hardware for for censoring traffic in

0:14:13.500,0:14:16.709
the first days after elections but the[br]network was set up already for longer so

0:14:16.709,0:14:20.090
it was not like s Vine is rushing into[br]Minsk and on the day of Elections but

0:14:20.090,0:14:23.710
rather this was sold for some years before[br]and the Belarus and state was successfully

0:14:23.710,0:14:29.759
using it and on the day of Elections like[br]we lost internet connection for most of

0:14:29.759,0:14:35.459
the country. There was also coming a lot[br]of assistance days following that from

0:14:35.459,0:14:40.240
Russian and Chinese government who would[br]try to you know nav help to navigate

0:14:40.240,0:14:44.750
Belarusian government through the fact[br]that they basically shut down not only

0:14:44.750,0:14:47.769
like a protest infrastructure but their[br]own infrastructure because a lot of their

0:14:47.769,0:14:51.399
own [ __ ] was dependent on the internet[br]and that was one of the reasons why

0:14:51.399,0:14:55.210
internet was returned to Belarus three[br]days later as a lot of repressive

0:14:55.210,0:15:00.579
infrastructure was not working for the[br]state. Yeah so those were very supportive

0:15:00.579,0:15:05.009
of Belarusian regime and they're still[br]doing that  but there were some also

0:15:05.009,0:15:09.430
private companies that were helping[br]Belarus to deal with the protests

0:15:09.430,0:15:16.470
Microsoft I mean there is a lot of pirated[br]Microsoft installs but Skype server

0:15:16.470,0:15:20.740
infrastructure was used for prosecuting[br]protesters this was very handy so you

0:15:20.740,0:15:25.069
would have a court, where there will be[br]like just a computer standard, like it's

0:15:25.069,0:15:28.721
not really technological country so much[br]right? So in the court there will be a

0:15:28.721,0:15:32.339
laptop and there would be like a guy in[br]the Mask who would be a witness in the

0:15:32.339,0:15:36.709
case of the of the protesters and it takes[br]around like 2 minutes to prosecute the

0:15:36.709,0:15:41.510
person for them to get like 15 25 days in[br]prison. The person leaves and then there

0:15:41.510,0:15:45.579
is a new case and quite often there were[br]like the same cops basically testifying

0:15:45.579,0:15:49.459
for the people on many on multiple[br]occasions and this provided a lot of

0:15:49.459,0:15:53.000
anonymity from one side for the[br]infrastructure of repressions because the

0:15:53.000,0:15:56.610
cops didn't ha:ve to be at the place and[br]they couldn't be identified but on the

0:15:56.610,0:16:01.680
other side it provided allso this kind of[br]like a mobility of repressions. You don't

0:16:01.680,0:16:05.120
need to bring another cop who would stand[br]there and he doesn't know what to read and

0:16:05.120,0:16:10.430
to say and so on and so forth. So this was[br]there and this was like Skype was not in

0:16:10.430,0:16:14.931
any way you know and Microsoft was not in[br]any way reacting how the Belarusian state

0:16:14.931,0:16:21.040
is using their services in the country at[br]that .Then we had cinezis, cinezis is like

0:16:21.040,0:16:24.550
a Belarusian company that was developing a[br]face recognition system and this smart

0:16:24.550,0:16:30.870
City [ __ ] and all the crap you can find[br]on the pages of the internet days. So one

0:16:30.870,0:16:36.360
of the products they had was keypod and[br]this was basically like a life face

0:16:36.360,0:16:40.470
recognition system that they installed in[br]Minsk. And this keypod was used for

0:16:40.470,0:16:45.850
identifying also protesters during the[br]protests and also identifying High Target

0:16:45.850,0:16:50.420
like high political Targets in the city at[br]some point. So for example one of the

0:16:50.420,0:16:56.269
congress warrs  an anarchist was arrested[br]through like a common operation of keypod.

0:16:56.269,0:16:59.560
That was telling the police that he's[br]there so they would follow him to the

0:16:59.560,0:17:03.600
place where he was living underground and[br]so on and so forth. So, face recognition

0:17:03.600,0:17:08.410
system worked pretty well in certain[br]situations right? They were also using

0:17:08.410,0:17:13.380
like their own face recognition system for[br]postprocess so they get images of high

0:17:13.380,0:17:17.730
resolution from Big crowds like 100,000[br]people and from there they would pick up

0:17:17.730,0:17:22.589
some faces of the protesters and this[br]would be like ending up in the court cases

0:17:22.589,0:17:25.860
of the people. So you would have like a[br]print out from keod system that was saying

0:17:25.860,0:17:31.559
okay we identify this person like this and[br]that. The CEO of the company is like a son

0:17:31.559,0:17:37.799
of the KGB agent so they had like a lot of[br]connections with the state and what else

0:17:37.799,0:17:42.620
is here? Like the company itself was[br]trying to present itself, we are like an

0:17:42.620,0:17:46.980
IT company that is doing just a you know[br]like a nice thing for everybody and make

0:17:46.980,0:17:52.321
people happy in Belarus. But reality was[br]different and we figured that also po

0:17:52.321,0:17:57.120
factum I think a month later there was a[br]bigger article published on what they're

0:17:57.120,0:18:00.530
doing and how they are basically like[br]helping out the Belarusian state to

0:18:00.530,0:18:07.510
suppress the uprising. And here we also[br]have a great Corporation Called Intel that

0:18:07.510,0:18:12.520
doesn't you know for whom money also[br]doesn't smell it's it's very funny because

0:18:12.520,0:18:18.409
intel was very proud of cooperating with[br]cinezis till 2022 even though cinezis was

0:18:18.409,0:18:22.909
on sanction under sanctions in the[br]European Union by that time but US was not

0:18:22.909,0:18:27.020
sanctioning. So when the fullscale war in[br]Ukraine broke broke out cinezis ended up

0:18:27.020,0:18:32.190
on us sanction list so intel was like okay[br]we we this is not good imagery for us, so

0:18:32.190,0:18:36.510
they deleted the keypod page from their[br]website, where they were very proud of it

0:18:36.510,0:18:42.500
but if you search keypod Intel it's you[br]still find a Chinese page like a page in

0:18:42.500,0:18:46.590
Chinese on the Intel website that still[br]does like all this [ __ ] advertisement we

0:18:46.590,0:18:49.860
are helping human rights and developing[br]Technologies and progress and blah blah

0:18:49.860,0:18:54.280
blah. So Intel is still partly proud of[br]cooperating with the repressive

0:18:54.280,0:18:59.750
organization in belarus but only for the[br]Chinese market most probably. Social

0:18:59.750,0:19:04.490
networks, so there is like a certain you[br]know a hype around that telegram was used

0:19:04.490,0:19:10.000
a lot to coordinate protest and so on and[br]so forth but reality I mean and it was

0:19:10.000,0:19:17.360
but reality the other side of the coin was[br]that we  ended up in quite a [ __ ] storm

0:19:17.360,0:19:23.049
because people could be identified through[br]the telegram or the way telegram is built

0:19:23.049,0:19:28.140
through ID IDs like the unique IDs that[br]are doesn't matter if you change the phone

0:19:28.140,0:19:32.640
number and so on and so forth. So a lot of[br]people ended up being prosecuted because

0:19:32.640,0:19:38.159
they did some [ __ ] on telegram and in[br]like the further we went after repressions

0:19:38.159,0:19:42.620
of the uprising the more ridiculous those[br]could be, like even putting you know a [

0:19:42.620,0:19:48.150
__ ] Emoji under information that a KGB[br]agent was shot during a raid would be

0:19:48.150,0:19:54.830
enough to start criminal prosecution[br]against you. So those things became very

0:19:54.830,0:19:58.880
problematic and at the end of the day[br]we've seen that Belarusian in state is

0:19:58.880,0:20:04.130
observing not only telegram but also other[br]social networks. Telegram at that point

0:20:04.130,0:20:07.620
was not really Cooperative with[br]belarussian State and they were still

0:20:07.620,0:20:11.860
selling like Durov was still selling this[br]you know image of we are like for the

0:20:11.860,0:20:18.470
human rights and for people and all this [[br]__ ]  but by the time like a year later

0:20:18.470,0:20:24.140
we ended up with a situation when the[br]protest like died out that Durov started

0:20:24.140,0:20:28.620
blocking like telegram started blocking[br]certain website certain [ __ ] not

0:20:28.620,0:20:33.480
websites certain channels in telegram[br]that were for example dedoxing police or

0:20:33.480,0:20:38.070
documenting police violence and and court[br]cases and so on and so forth. So those

0:20:38.070,0:20:41.660
channels are for example like U there is a[br]channel that is called Belarusian

0:20:41.660,0:20:44.900
punishers that has a list of police[br]officers who were responsible for the

0:20:44.900,0:20:52.309
violence and this is blocked on Telegram[br]and you can't find it. Official point of

0:20:52.309,0:20:56.500
like telegram this is not us saying, they[br]said okay Apple actually forced us to do

0:20:56.500,0:21:01.230
that but reality is that it goes both[br]ways. You know like you have to cooperate

0:21:01.230,0:21:05.880
with each other for this to to happen and[br]this was happening on one side on the

0:21:05.880,0:21:12.220
other side telegram was blocking also[br]channels of the same kind of groups in

0:21:12.220,0:21:16.150
Russia that were also dedoxing cops who[br]were using violence and who were

0:21:16.150,0:21:20.880
participating in repressions even after[br]the fullscale invasion. So we see a lot of

0:21:20.880,0:21:25.559
censorship and a lot of cooperation[br]happening  after like the protest, so

0:21:25.559,0:21:29.010
during the the active phase like they[br]would be like yeah we standing with you

0:21:29.010,0:21:33.680
and you're almost one so we would like to[br]be with you but when you know they see

0:21:33.680,0:21:37.529
that the status quo is maintained they[br]start cooperating they start like

0:21:37.529,0:21:42.490
following the laws of the country even if[br]those laws are oppressive or doesn't make

0:21:42.490,0:21:47.680
any [ __ ] sense and so on and so forth.[br]Yeah and vkontakte, I think you know this

0:21:47.680,0:21:52.710
is like a social network in Russia, they[br]are like completely working with FSB and

0:21:52.710,0:21:56.140
and [ __ ] and Belarusian State also has[br]pretty much direct access on what you're

0:21:56.140,0:22:01.970
doing there. So there there were some[br]people organizing but for even like normal

0:22:01.970,0:22:06.020
people it became clear that like don't use[br]Russian social networks, this is like a

0:22:06.020,0:22:10.770
bad idea and then apparently you shouldn't[br]use Chinese social networks and maybe

0:22:10.770,0:22:15.400
don't use social networks in general[br]because a lot of them have like a

0:22:15.400,0:22:19.330
potential of repressions of not on the[br]individuals but the social movements and

0:22:19.330,0:22:25.940
and [ __ ] like that. Mobile phones and[br]data collection. So what did we figure out

0:22:25.940,0:22:32.340
during the protests and and the last years[br]celebrate of course they are [ __ ] happy

0:22:32.340,0:22:37.820
to to sell themselves to any repressive[br]regime so Belarus is not an exception and

0:22:37.820,0:22:41.760
they they're they they were used they're[br]still used so belarusan state is still

0:22:41.760,0:22:46.659
buying celebrite licenses through some[br]third party companies and I mean sanctions

0:22:46.659,0:22:50.400
is is a [ __ ] joke in general. And even[br]the companies who are saying we are not

0:22:50.400,0:22:55.721
doing that in most cases they are doing[br]that but through the third party. Data

0:22:55.721,0:23:01.159
dumps so through cellebride but through[br]other certain other companies you just get

0:23:01.159,0:23:06.460
like a set of phones right and I don't[br]know there would be like 500 people

0:23:06.460,0:23:11.140
detained there would be all the phones[br]confiscated and the cops would be dumping

0:23:11.140,0:23:16.559
all the data from those phones and then[br]you know like they wouldn't have a time to

0:23:16.559,0:23:20.320
go through this data at the point but then[br]you might be prosecuted in half a year

0:23:20.320,0:23:26.220
later for what they found from those[br]phones. And also you know like there is a

0:23:26.220,0:23:30.020
lot discussions you're the Congress as[br]well and in general in the security

0:23:30.020,0:23:34.169
Community the strong passwords you know[br]encryption is very important but we

0:23:34.169,0:23:40.120
figured out that you know encryption works[br]very bad if they're torturing you. And

0:23:40.120,0:23:43.590
that was the Belarusian like way to break[br]encryption, they didn't try to you know

0:23:43.590,0:23:48.220
make a technological way into this, but[br]rather they [ __ ] you up to the point

0:23:48.220,0:23:52.700
where you decide okay I rather die or I[br]give them the password and quite often it

0:23:52.700,0:23:57.120
worked pretty well and it worked also in[br]the way like not retrospectively but in a

0:23:57.120,0:24:02.370
in a threaten way so you know, okay some[br]people were tortured to get access to the

0:24:02.370,0:24:05.970
encrypted drives and other people would be[br]like okay I give you the password without

0:24:05.970,0:24:11.831
torture. So encryption doesn't work[br]against torture in Belarusian State and in

0:24:11.831,0:24:17.190
many other cases and this is yeah it[br]doesn't matter how perfect your security

0:24:17.190,0:24:23.169
system built technologically wise quite[br]often the human factor is still the the

0:24:23.169,0:24:27.320
the weakest link in the whole situation.[br]Then we had situations where the cops were

0:24:27.320,0:24:30.900
impersonating activists. Up to the point[br]where they were registering like for

0:24:30.900,0:24:34.620
example on the dating apps and putting[br]like naked pictures that they would get

0:24:34.620,0:24:38.429
from the data damps and so on and then[br]people would be calling those activists

0:24:38.429,0:24:42.980
hooking up with them and so on and so[br]forth. Sim cloning that's a huge thing

0:24:42.980,0:24:49.690
that I think people should [ __ ] like get[br]engraved in their like brain that's that

0:24:49.690,0:24:53.250
your phone and the SIM cards that you get[br]do not belong to you you are like

0:24:53.250,0:24:57.179
borrowing them from the companies and[br]quite often if the companies have or the

0:24:57.179,0:25:01.510
state has access to the companies then the[br]state owns those and that means the state

0:25:01.510,0:25:05.110
owns your [ __ ] phone number and that[br]means phone number is not unique

0:25:05.110,0:25:11.210
identification. So we had a lot of[br]situations where telegram accounts were

0:25:11.210,0:25:15.549
hijacked by the state just by you know[br]like cloning the SIM card and getting all

0:25:15.549,0:25:21.700
the access and normal person wouldn't put[br]a password on your account. Yeah so be

0:25:21.700,0:25:27.830
aware of that and please like stop using[br]that for your you know technological

0:25:27.830,0:25:32.501
things you're doing or software that you[br]are developing this is not a secure way in

0:25:32.501,0:25:40.350
any way. This also goes to Signal people.[br]Traffic analysis yes as I was mentioning

0:25:40.350,0:25:44.390
like the [ __ ] storm is there so they're[br]trying to identify what people are doing

0:25:44.390,0:25:48.380
and this might be also a reason for a[br]house rate or something like that if your

0:25:48.380,0:25:55.649
traffic looks suspicious. Resistance so[br]resistance unfortunately is very low

0:25:55.649,0:26:02.250
technologically speaking so there's not so[br]much of like you know laser rifles and [

0:26:02.250,0:26:05.910
__ ] like that. But rather and and and[br]that's like unfortunately the story of

0:26:05.910,0:26:11.820
resistance against authoritarian regimes,[br]that normally even when the state has like

0:26:11.820,0:26:16.380
very sophisticated heat guns and [ __ ][br]like that people end up on the streets

0:26:16.380,0:26:21.500
with the stones and sticks and that was[br]the case also in Belarus. However people

0:26:21.500,0:26:26.799
started learning Technologies very fast so[br]there were a lot of people who learned how

0:26:26.799,0:26:33.260
to use toxy tor VPN, you see how the whole[br]usage of those Services spiked during the

0:26:33.260,0:26:37.529
protest and this is not like you know your[br]20 30 year old friends but rather like

0:26:37.529,0:26:42.580
older people 50 60 who were forced into[br]doing that, because they are interested in

0:26:42.580,0:26:46.130
joining the protest. So to be part of the[br]protest you actually have to learn how to

0:26:46.130,0:26:51.179
do those. We also figured out that mesh[br]networks although it's such a great idea

0:26:51.179,0:26:55.700
and maybe one day on the other planet it[br]will work out but for your average

0:26:55.700,0:27:00.440
protester and average participant in in[br]like an anti-authoritarian uprising this

0:27:00.440,0:27:04.559
is not the case you can't [ __ ] get them[br]working and people are not really capable

0:27:04.559,0:27:09.279
of of using them. Destruction of[br]surveillance property so there were people

0:27:09.279,0:27:13.120
who would just go around and smash the [[br]__ ] cameras that was the way to resist

0:27:13.120,0:27:18.789
the facial recognition system. Hacking of[br]infrastructure so there were a lot of

0:27:18.789,0:27:23.930
different attempts and the biggest one I[br]think was hacking into the ID database

0:27:23.930,0:27:28.830
where which brought like a lot of other[br]stuff so there databases of all this

0:27:28.830,0:27:32.960
Belarusian citizens their criminal records[br]and and [ __ ] like that available to

0:27:32.960,0:27:38.850
certain groups right now and this gives[br]also opportunity to look into  police

0:27:38.850,0:27:43.500
activity and what the cops are doing what[br]they own where they work and so on and so

0:27:43.500,0:27:49.890
Forth. The doxxing of the police officers[br]and regime functions like the judges and

0:27:49.890,0:27:54.559
other bureaucrats basically as I was[br]mentioning like on telegram you have this

0:27:54.559,0:27:59.769
whole list like thousands and tens of[br]thousands of people there is also a map so

0:27:59.769,0:28:04.000
you can have a look if you're living next[br]to a [ __ ] in your house who is like a

0:28:04.000,0:28:07.490
colonel of repression operatus or[br]something like that so this is also

0:28:07.490,0:28:11.399
helping a lot but it also build up a lot[br]of pressure on the police because police

0:28:11.399,0:28:15.410
apparently think if you know if you know[br]the address of the police officer most

0:28:15.410,0:28:19.020
probably you will go and smash his [ __ ][br]house and kill everybody and so on which

0:28:19.020,0:28:23.580
didn't didn't happen but it did provide a[br]certain pressure on the repression

0:28:23.580,0:28:29.420
apparatus. We also ended up with the[br]solution for like what do you do when the

0:28:29.420,0:28:34.169
cops torture you for your password for[br]encrypted hard drive you break your hard

0:28:34.169,0:28:38.381
drive and sometimes maybe you wouldn't be[br]able to break your hard drive so you do

0:28:38.381,0:28:42.730
like this thing that they do in the movies[br]you know in US you break the screen. *some

0:28:42.730,0:28:47.840
laughs* Really bizarre right but it works[br]the the point here and I'm not talking

0:28:47.840,0:28:51.580
about the laptop the point here is you[br]have a smartphone and there you have

0:28:51.580,0:28:57.519
something going on so if you smash it the[br]average Riot cob guy doesn't know what

0:28:57.519,0:29:03.450
what to do with it, so he can't torture[br]you to open it right it doesn't work. And

0:29:03.450,0:29:07.200
that was like a solution for a lot of[br]activist so basically if you are in the

0:29:07.200,0:29:12.690
danger of being arrested you just break[br]the phone and you have this buffer time

0:29:12.690,0:29:16.990
when the cops arrest you put you in jail[br]and blah blah blah and this expert comes

0:29:16.990,0:29:21.450
who knows how to you know open the phone[br]that has a broken screen. And that's kind

0:29:21.450,0:29:26.480
of like a place where most of the torture[br]happens so you're capable of avoiding and

0:29:26.480,0:29:31.549
the cops also figured out that pretty fast[br]so they started trying to get you arrested

0:29:31.549,0:29:35.059
before you break that and I have a story[br]like of a friend who you know like who was

0:29:35.059,0:29:38.320
laying on the ground and he was putting[br]his hand in the pocket and like smashing

0:29:38.320,0:29:42.570
the screen and he did it and the cops were[br]like how did you do that we were formed

0:29:42.570,0:29:47.000
sitting on you you couldn't [ __ ] move so[br]these kind of things and these kind of

0:29:47.000,0:29:53.210
things I think saved at least a health of[br]certain people and also there was a lot of

0:29:53.210,0:29:57.929
online education where there were like[br]workshops for the people how to figure out

0:29:57.929,0:30:02.490
out their smartphone security their[br]telegram security and [ __ ] like that.

0:30:02.490,0:30:06.669
This is one of the examples of online[br]education that is not connected with the

0:30:06.669,0:30:11.279
security of the smartphones it is more[br]about production of new technologies

0:30:11.279,0:30:17.230
right? In Belarus not connected the[br]tractors and those are like just to

0:30:17.230,0:30:22.810
immobilize the police Vans Yeah so this[br]this was a lot of this kind of online

0:30:22.810,0:30:27.130
education as well the interesting fact[br]again that a lot of people were afraid to

0:30:27.130,0:30:31.850
put to do that online education because[br]eventually on many social networks you can

0:30:31.850,0:30:38.130
get banned for that like if you put you[br]know how do you say a video how to make

0:30:38.130,0:30:44.240
molotov cocktail this is considered[br]illegal activity and you know your account

0:30:44.240,0:30:54.210
can be banned and [ __ ] like that and I[br]think people in not in the first World War

0:30:54.210,0:30:59.159
figure that out a lot. Like people who are[br]in in Palestine and in many other places

0:30:59.159,0:31:02.850
figure that you know the repressions are[br]working from the private companies against

0:31:02.850,0:31:07.990
them when they're fighting against the[br]regimes. Conclusions so this is a small

0:31:07.990,0:31:12.710
sticker that says if you can't break the[br]dictatorship you can still burn it down.

0:31:12.710,0:31:15.549
*laughter*

0:31:15.549,0:31:21.320
Conclusions are very short there they can[br]there is a lot to talk about. Capitalism

0:31:21.320,0:31:27.460
is [ __ ] evil I mean hundreds of years of[br]this [ __ ] up story you I hope all of you

0:31:27.460,0:31:31.210
figured this out this is not really a [ __[br]] mystery you know you don't have to come

0:31:31.210,0:31:36.049
from USSR indoctrinated by Marxism[br]leninism to know that capitalism is evil

0:31:36.049,0:31:39.960
and capitalism

0:31:39.960,0:31:43.980
*Many Applaus*

0:31:43.980,0:31:48.059
and capitalism destroys lives not only[br]here you know like in in Germany in US or

0:31:48.059,0:31:52.120
whatever and your political life but it[br]destroys lives everywhere in Belarus,

0:31:52.120,0:31:56.730
Myanmar, Hong Kong, Syria like the [ __ ][br]corporations and the [ __ ] private

0:31:56.730,0:32:02.570
business is ready to sell anything even[br]their [ __ ] mothers and brothers and

0:32:02.570,0:32:09.820
sisters to the dictators just to make[br]money. Your phone number is not a good ID

0:32:09.820,0:32:14.360
it's a bad ID don't [ __ ] use it ever[br]because it can be easily identified in

0:32:14.360,0:32:19.260
Germany as well in many other countries it[br]is like it it's a [ __ ] like if giving a

0:32:19.260,0:32:23.149
passport. Just when you are registering[br]with your phone number just imagine that

0:32:23.149,0:32:25.909
you're giving a passport to some company[br]right?

0:32:25.909,0:32:28.660
Someone from the audience: taking[br]pictures.

0:32:28.660,0:32:34.470
Boris: Yeah password is a good thing,[br]still, many years after you can also

0:32:34.470,0:32:39.700
forget it. You get a concussion you forget[br]it, you get tortured you forget it,

0:32:39.700,0:32:44.490
password is good right? Surveillance is[br]good for the state bad for society so all

0:32:44.490,0:32:50.500
those corporations that are selling right[br]now also in Western world the business of

0:32:50.500,0:32:55.830
surveillance they are destroying the[br]social glue of the society and this is

0:32:55.830,0:33:00.279
like a different topic but but in general[br]like surveillance is destructive for us as

0:33:00.279,0:33:05.870
a humankind. Western private companies are[br]crucial for the dictatorship, we are not

0:33:05.870,0:33:09.110
living in the world where you know like[br]the dictators have horses and they are

0:33:09.110,0:33:14.529
riding them into the crowd and like w[br]hooray but rather a lot of technologies

0:33:14.529,0:33:19.600
that are used by the state by the[br]Belarusian state but also by Syrian state,

0:33:19.600,0:33:23.250
by Russian state are not the technologies[br]that were developed within the small

0:33:23.250,0:33:27.690
states by the local companies but rather a[br]lot of technologies that were brought in

0:33:27.690,0:33:32.450
and developed in this countries where we[br]are sitting you know? And they were

0:33:32.450,0:33:38.500
developed under certain freedom but at the[br]same time they are now used to engrave the

0:33:38.500,0:33:42.929
dictatorship and those dictatorships are[br]spreading like Russia wants to [ __ ]

0:33:42.929,0:33:48.250
conquer half of the Europe so you have to[br]be aware of that and you have to like WE

0:33:48.250,0:33:53.039
have to fight that back. This is not you[br]know whether it is should be done or not

0:33:53.039,0:33:58.130
it is more like how much energy and how [[br]__ ] your ass should be on on fire to

0:33:58.130,0:34:05.070
fight those. Smart also doesn't mean smart[br]and by that I mean that a lot of Engineers

0:34:05.070,0:34:08.700
believe that they they you know they can[br]open a [ __ ] Wikipedia page, so they know

0:34:08.700,0:34:14.600
everything about the world. But it is not[br]the case a lot of Engineers fail miserably

0:34:14.600,0:34:18.609
in understanding how the world is working[br]how the society is working so if we

0:34:18.609,0:34:23.139
develop technological solutions to certain[br]problems we do have to work with

0:34:23.139,0:34:27.879
sociologists Political scientists with[br]activists to understand how those

0:34:27.879,0:34:31.400
technologies will influence the world you[br]know:

0:34:31.400,0:34:38.290
*very many ovations*

0:34:38.290,0:34:42.929
The time is [ __ ] running out and I'm not[br]talking about all only about ecological

0:34:42.929,0:34:47.690
catastrophe but also technologically[br]speaking. We are in the race with you know

0:34:47.690,0:34:52.890
the dictators and authoritarian regimes[br]who want to enforce and make their regime

0:34:52.890,0:34:57.720
stronger through Technologies, face[br]recognition systems and all this [ __ ]

0:34:57.720,0:35:03.180
that is making the state way stronger[br]against the society so yeah get your [ __

0:35:03.180,0:35:08.060
] done and get your [ __ ] like going[br]already now today, you know. And digital

0:35:08.060,0:35:12.810
resistance is part of a broader Uprising[br]so do not see yourself you know as a

0:35:12.810,0:35:16.690
hackers community that exist in isolated[br]world and you're in a bubble and [ __ ]

0:35:16.690,0:35:21.400
like that but rather if we want to stop[br]like technological dictatorships or

0:35:21.400,0:35:25.240
whatever [ __ ] you can imagine we[br]actually have to work together,

0:35:25.240,0:35:29.490
technological activists, Street activists,[br]Community organizers all of those get

0:35:29.490,0:35:32.320
together and fight against the[br]dictatorships fight against the

0:35:32.320,0:35:36.920
authoritarian attacks on us, on our[br]society, on our families, on our friends

0:35:36.920,0:35:38.150
and only then we can win thank you!

0:35:38.150,0:35:39.150
*Applause*

0:35:39.150,0:35:40.150
*Music*

0:35:40.150,0:36:14.071
Angel:  I have one more thing ...[br]Boris: And don't forget to donate to our

0:36:14.071,0:36:17.440
group we are not like getting money for[br]ourselves we're collecting money for the

0:36:17.440,0:36:22.859
political prisoners so don't forget to do[br]that this is an important part of just

0:36:22.859,0:36:33.109
supporting the struggle.[br]Angel: Yeah *Applaus* so we have a couple

0:36:33.109,0:36:38.680
minutes for questions but if you have to[br]leave, leave super quietly and also a

0:36:38.680,0:36:43.650
question is a short sentence with a[br]question mark behind it not a long essay.

0:36:43.650,0:36:48.981
I have chat GPT for that and we have a[br]question from the the signal Angel by the

0:36:48.981,0:36:53.570
way the microphones are up front here here[br]1 2 3 4 that's where you have to stand in

0:36:53.570,0:36:56.590
order to do a question signal Angel go[br]ahead.

0:36:56.590,0:37:02.750
Signal Angel: Yes the internet wants to[br]know what you expect Microsoft or Skype to

0:37:02.750,0:37:08.170
do for example blocking Belarus as a whole[br]or wouldn't that also negatively impact

0:37:08.170,0:37:13.800
the activist? What's your opinion on that?[br]Boris: I mean I don't think that blocking

0:37:13.800,0:37:19.349
Skype like or Skype stopping providing[br]services in bellus would negatively affect

0:37:19.349,0:37:24.800
activist scene, nobody in activist scene[br]was using Skype right? On the other side

0:37:24.800,0:37:28.780
like you do have mechanisms of black[br]listing cord IPS at least you know like

0:37:28.780,0:37:33.300
this is Belarusian state is not you know[br]super sophisticated going to connect to

0:37:33.300,0:37:36.300
the [ __ ] bpn and [ __ ] like that, but[br]rather you block those and the court is

0:37:36.300,0:37:40.200
already not doing that. The thing with the[br]Microsoft and Skype is that it's story of

0:37:40.200,0:37:44.870
the past because right now they switched[br]to Viber so like this is this is gone,

0:37:44.870,0:37:49.220
like they did their part and nobody will[br]most probably remember that and I mean

0:37:49.220,0:37:52.260
honestly [ __ ] Microsoft.

0:37:52.260,0:37:54.920
*few ovations*

0:37:54.920,0:37:58.089
Angel: We're running out of time question[br]for Num 3.

0:37:58.089,0:38:06.270
-Okay I have a question how much would a[br]better and more secure VPN technology and

0:38:06.270,0:38:12.579
better anonymizing systems help in these[br]kinds of situations and what what has the

0:38:12.579,0:38:18.370
Bella russian State done against using VPS[br]into foreign countries?

0:38:18.370,0:38:24.079
B: I mean in the first days of the[br]protests in the first days of the uprising

0:38:24.079,0:38:27.990
the whole internet infrastructure was[br]gone. Like there were certain ways to go

0:38:27.990,0:38:32.010
around the blocking that were connected[br]with telegram proxies, I have no [ __ ]

0:38:32.010,0:38:35.970
clue how they managed to do it[br]successfully but they did and in general

0:38:35.970,0:38:38.960
like the internet was just not working. So[br]it doesn't matter if you have VPN and a

0:38:38.960,0:38:45.920
Tor, the internet doesn't work  and later[br]on when they unlocked the internet they

0:38:45.920,0:38:52.250
were very slow in reacting to the fast[br]protest community so in those cases VPNs

0:38:52.250,0:38:57.140
very important somehow but for us at that[br]point the the local organizing and

0:38:57.140,0:39:02.250
providing infrastructure for the local[br]organizers was way more important. So also

0:39:02.250,0:39:05.630
like building decentralized networks[br]inside of the country sometimes is way

0:39:05.630,0:39:09.609
more crucial to the protests than getting[br]out to the services that are outside of

0:39:09.609,0:39:14.819
the country and that's what was happening[br]as well. But in general like it's still an

0:39:14.819,0:39:19.680
important part of fighting back like[br]having a reliable VPN or any other

0:39:19.680,0:39:28.329
anonymizing and like censorship circumsing[br]Technologies. How to develop those more

0:39:28.329,0:39:31.290
successfully? I have no [ __ ] clue[br]honestly. Because those like the fight

0:39:31.290,0:39:37.720
against those are going on very fast and I[br]like I can't answer this, I'm very sorry.

0:39:37.720,0:39:41.900
Herald: So we might be able to squeeze in[br]another two questions very briefly. on

0:39:41.900,0:39:46.470
number one.[br]-How bad is the suppression of the APC

0:39:46.470,0:39:51.010
Belarus activists and can you safely[br]reside inside Belarus without getting

0:39:51.010,0:39:54.930
arrested immediately or do you have to[br]flee into Exile?

0:39:54.930,0:40:03.119
B: Like in general not talking only about[br]us but the bigger political spectrum of

0:40:03.119,0:40:06.250
all the groups that are providing[br]solidarity work all of them are gone like

0:40:06.250,0:40:11.240
from Belarus. So all of the activists from[br]Liberal also human right defending groups

0:40:11.240,0:40:15.640
and so on had to leave and if you would be[br]identified as a member of such a group

0:40:15.640,0:40:19.710
inside of the country this would be enough[br]to prosecute you and to put I mean any

0:40:19.710,0:40:24.460
case they want on you. This is not a you[br]know like a legal state but rather they

0:40:24.460,0:40:28.810
prosecute you and that's it. And with the[br]case of activist Anarchist activists in

0:40:28.810,0:40:35.619
general there are laws that would allow[br]them to make a group extremist

0:40:35.619,0:40:39.819
organization that doesn't need a core[br]decision and through that you can get like

0:40:39.819,0:40:45.420
five six seven years in prison easily[br]without any other actions you know. And

0:40:45.420,0:40:51.410
this is happening to certain solidarity[br]groups already yeah. So we also have in

0:40:51.410,0:40:56.460
tomorrow in like a self-organized sessions[br]a bigger presentation another collegue

0:40:56.460,0:41:01.310
will be doing that about repressions in[br]Belarus about the political situation less

0:41:01.310,0:41:05.460
like focused on Technologies more focused[br]on social political situation so if you

0:41:05.460,0:41:09.960
want to know a little bit more about that[br]you can come there and ask your questions

0:41:09.960,0:41:12.550
and and [ __ ] like that.[br]Herald: I would suggest that for anybody

0:41:12.550,0:41:16.339
in the room but we will take one last[br]question very briefly from the signal

0:41:16.339,0:41:18.640
Angel and then we'll have to call it quits[br]unfortunately.

0:41:18.640,0:41:24.440
Signal Engel:  Yes another question[br]regarding the use of encryption. It is if

0:41:24.440,0:41:30.290
theography is used with to encryption or[br]instead of encryption in Belarus by

0:41:30.290,0:41:35.369
activists.[br]B: I mean we do not have so many people

0:41:35.369,0:41:39.720
who were like technologically savvy and[br]were participating in the protests that's

0:41:39.720,0:41:45.210
why nobody was hiding messages like that[br]but we did have like a collective for

0:41:45.210,0:41:51.780
example that developed a telegram  app[br]that would have like a double I don't know

0:41:51.780,0:41:58.530
how it's in English like a double[br]something double like basically you have

0:41:58.530,0:42:04.760
two accounts in the telegram and one of[br]those accounts like is is is a very nice

0:42:04.760,0:42:08.840
fluffy you don't do anything and that's[br]where what the cops see and then you need

0:42:08.840,0:42:14.839
to put a password to get another one so we[br]got like this kind of hiding your activity

0:42:14.839,0:42:20.470
on the internet but this was I think like[br]the biggest people can imagine using on

0:42:20.470,0:42:25.020
their smartphones. In general like we have[br]to understand that technological savy is

0:42:25.020,0:42:28.849
dropping right people when people are[br]using smartphones they know less about

0:42:28.849,0:42:33.390
Technologies than they did like 10 years[br]ago so people are capable of doing less

0:42:33.390,0:42:36.390
and less and less yeah.[br]Herald: So that's all the questions we can

0:42:36.390,0:42:40.763
take please help me thank him for this[br]wonderful talk something we never and...

0:42:40.763,0:42:41.763
B: Thanks for doing it!

0:42:41.763,0:42:42.263
*a lot of ovations*