0:00:08.318,0:00:10.080 MATTHEW RITCHIE: Modern art is a gift. 0:00:10.080,0:00:11.320 Take it or leave it, you know. 0:00:11.320,0:00:14.000 It's like nobody's forcing it[br]down your throat. 0:00:14.000,0:00:17.360 All anyone is trying to do[br]is try out some new ideas, 0:00:17.360,0:00:19.600 something different,[br]something, you know... 0:00:19.600,0:00:22.100 just ringing the changes[br]a little while. 0:00:22.800,0:00:25.440 And I think there's something[br]enormously ambitious 0:00:25.440,0:00:29.825 about that idea,[br]that we're all trying to advance 0:00:31.000,0:00:34.100 or at least question[br]what's going on, 0:00:34.461,0:00:35.800 and I just think that's great. 0:00:38.960,0:00:42.160 Drawing is very, very central[br]to the way that I work 0:00:42.160,0:00:46.160 because it can be blown up,[br]taken apart, 0:00:46.160,0:00:48.160 given to another person[br]to execute, 0:00:48.160,0:00:49.360 put into a computer, 0:00:49.360,0:00:51.960 redrawn as if the computer[br]had thought of your drawing 0:00:51.960,0:00:53.317 in the first place, 0:00:54.400,0:00:56.800 shrunk back down[br]to a tiny sketch, 0:00:56.800,0:00:58.120 turned into a digital game. 0:00:58.120,0:00:59.680 You can just keep on pushing it. 0:00:59.680,0:01:02.200 It's like this infinite machine, 0:01:03.080,0:01:05.120 which is very hard to do[br]with almost anything else. 0:01:05.120,0:01:06.040 Like even with a painting-- 0:01:06.040,0:01:08.800 a painting becomes[br]a very static, fixed thing, 0:01:08.800,0:01:10.960 but a drawing, you can make it[br]three-dimensional, 0:01:10.960,0:01:13.160 you can make it flat,[br]you can turn it into a sphere. 0:01:13.160,0:01:15.400 You can just keep pushing it[br]and pushing it and pushing it, 0:01:15.400,0:01:16.680 because all it is[br]is information. 0:01:16.680,0:01:19.080 It's just a bunch of marks. 0:01:19.080,0:01:20.960 So once you sort[br]of understand it, 0:01:20.960,0:01:23.080 you're really just the arm[br]at that point. 0:01:23.080,0:01:24.480 Like the drawing[br]has already been made; 0:01:24.480,0:01:26.423 you're just transcribing it. 0:01:27.800,0:01:31.160 The idea is really taking this[br]very small, intimate gesture 0:01:31.160,0:01:32.240 and making it into something 0:01:32.240,0:01:35.000 that retains all[br]of the properties that it had 0:01:35.520,0:01:38.669 but allowing it to be[br]really done on any scale. 0:01:39.640,0:01:41.640 So you're really[br]sort of freeing it in a way 0:01:41.640,0:01:43.134 to live in the world. 0:01:44.640,0:01:47.400 It's like a three-way[br]collaboration between me, 0:01:47.400,0:01:48.240 a computer program 0:01:48.240,0:01:50.560 that doesn't understand[br]what it's doing at all 0:01:50.560,0:01:51.720 and then a group of strangers 0:01:51.720,0:01:54.240 who will execute it[br]and rebuild it in a way. 0:01:54.240,0:01:56.200 And then we've all made[br]this thing together 0:01:56.200,0:01:59.637 that has a kind[br]of shared integrity. 0:02:02.200,0:02:03.640 The nice thing about[br]the way I'm working is 0:02:03.640,0:02:08.320 that the program that I'm using[br]has an infinite resolution. 0:02:08.320,0:02:10.600 So, you know,[br]you keep getting bigger. 0:02:10.600,0:02:15.280 This is how the quality of the[br]line remains absolutely constant 0:02:15.280,0:02:20.680 from very, very small[br]to very large. 0:02:20.680,0:02:24.760 So it doesn't really have[br]a lot of the conventional ideas 0:02:24.760,0:02:25.840 that, you know...[br]of reproduction, 0:02:25.840,0:02:27.200 where you blow it up[br]and it's like 0:02:27.200,0:02:29.280 it's going to lose its[br]definition or its resolution. 0:02:29.280,0:02:31.680 So, this can be very, very small[br]or very, very big, 0:02:31.680,0:02:33.200 and it's really the same thing. 0:02:33.200,0:02:35.320 It's exactly the same gesture. 0:02:35.320,0:02:38.720 It's not getting corrupted[br]or evolved or degraded 0:02:38.720,0:02:40.000 at any point. 0:02:47.200,0:02:48.840 Each time the drawing[br]is reproduced, 0:02:48.840,0:02:50.280 it gets bigger and bigger[br]and bigger-- 0:02:50.280,0:02:53.230 it's now 270 feet long-- 0:02:53.659,0:02:56.640 and it contains more and more detail, [br]because it always has to include 0:02:56.640,0:02:58.920 not only all of the elements[br]that I've made since then 0:02:58.920,0:03:00.869 but the previous version[br]of itself. 0:03:01.862,0:03:05.000 So it's like a kind of cross[br]between a dictionary and a map, 0:03:05.000,0:03:06.480 so it becomes[br]this separate thing, 0:03:06.480,0:03:10.160 like a living document[br]of its own history 0:03:10.160,0:03:11.400 and the history of all the hands 0:03:11.400,0:03:13.813 that have participated[br]in its making. 0:03:14.400,0:03:16.040 It's my work, 0:03:16.040,0:03:20.000 but at the same time, part of[br]the work is letting people in. 0:03:20.840,0:03:22.421 It's like... 0:03:22.421,0:03:25.584 it's what keeps it[br]alive in some ways. 0:03:33.160,0:03:36.145 I guess I'm most interested[br]in, What can one person know? 0:03:36.800,0:03:38.320 And how much? 0:03:38.320,0:03:42.880 It's a kind of a weakness[br]and a strength in the work 0:03:42.880,0:03:44.888 that it's interested[br]in everything. 0:03:48.680,0:03:51.600 There's this famous ratio[br]of signal and noise. 0:03:51.600,0:03:53.520 If you try to take[br]too much information in, 0:03:53.520,0:03:57.001 it turns into noise;[br]you can only process so much. 0:03:58.400,0:03:59.920 So to actually[br]understand anything, 0:03:59.920,0:04:01.560 you have to keep tuning[br]stuff out; 0:04:01.560,0:04:03.769 that's how we all[br]get through the day. 0:04:14.268,0:04:15.269 [ baby cooing ] 0:04:15.312,0:04:16.880 RITCHIE:[br]Talk about building a universe. 0:04:16.880,0:04:17.840 Eisen, my son-- 0:04:17.840,0:04:21.040 it's, like, everything for him[br]is on the same level. 0:04:21.040,0:04:23.200 Everything he sees[br]at three months old 0:04:23.200,0:04:25.840 is just sound, noise, light. 0:04:25.840,0:04:29.974 They're all fused into this kind[br]of panoptic sort of 0:04:29.974,0:04:31.200 synergy in his mind. 0:04:31.200,0:04:32.480 And he has[br]to pick everything out 0:04:32.480,0:04:34.200 and start filtering it[br]and make sense of it. 0:04:34.200,0:04:37.000 He has to do it every day[br]from scratch. 0:04:37.000,0:04:40.600 All he's getting is this just[br]insane, confusing information, 0:04:40.600,0:04:42.440 and that process keeps[br]continuing all our lives. 0:04:42.440,0:04:44.400 So we filter out,[br]you know, the knowledge 0:04:44.400,0:04:46.800 that everything in this space[br]has a meaning and a history 0:04:46.800,0:04:47.996 and a story. 0:04:48.560,0:04:51.040 We have to sort of bank[br]it all down, 0:04:51.040,0:04:52.640 but I'm kind of interested[br]in then, like, 0:04:52.640,0:04:53.720 okay, we've banked it all down, 0:04:53.720,0:04:55.240 but now, like, can we[br]bring it up a little? 0:04:55.240,0:04:57.975 Can we turn the volume up[br]maybe just a little bit more? 0:04:58.788,0:05:01.773 Can we listen to everything[br]just a little bit more loudly? 0:05:03.240,0:05:07.200 So, that's sort of[br]what I'm interested in-- 0:05:07.200,0:05:09.819 describing a kind of armature[br]for that. 0:05:12.720,0:05:15.480 This piece is called[br]"The Universal Cell," 0:05:15.480,0:05:18.240 and it's really conceived of[br]as a kind of a module, 0:05:18.240,0:05:23.000 like a single part[br]of a much larger installation. 0:05:23.000,0:05:24.760 It's derived[br]from a series of drawings 0:05:24.760,0:05:26.360 that I scan into the computer 0:05:26.360,0:05:29.720 and then I refine[br]through various processes 0:05:29.720,0:05:31.520 and send to Jim. 0:05:31.520,0:05:33.800 Jim takes it to his computer,[br]cleans it up a little bit, 0:05:33.800,0:05:36.720 you know, make sure there aren't[br]any loose points on it. 0:05:36.720,0:05:38.080 And then he puts it[br]into a machine 0:05:38.080,0:05:41.360 that's expressly designed[br]to take the drawing or the line 0:05:41.360,0:05:43.720 and reproduce it[br]with absolute perfection 0:05:43.720,0:05:45.240 by cutting through metals. 0:05:45.240,0:05:47.680 A process that ten years ago[br]would have taken weeks and weeks 0:05:47.680,0:05:51.480 and weeks,[br]can now take a couple of days. 0:05:51.480,0:05:52.760 And there's something[br]just fantastic 0:05:52.760,0:05:56.027 about being totally in control[br]of the whole production. 0:06:02.000,0:06:04.280 The whole thing was designed,[br]like most of my work, 0:06:04.280,0:06:05.800 to be taken apart. 0:06:05.800,0:06:09.160 It's as much about flatness[br]as it is about sculpture, 0:06:09.160,0:06:12.092 because I'm really interested[br]in sustaining the drawing. 0:06:18.389,0:06:20.501 — Oh, that's nice--[br]the way that fits there. 0:06:22.831,0:06:24.267 RITCHIE: So I wanted to [br]build a structure 0:06:24.267,0:06:26.369 that felt like a cell, 0:06:27.520,0:06:29.160 your cell in the whole universe. 0:06:29.160,0:06:32.720 If the universe is a prison,[br]this is your cell. 0:06:32.720,0:06:33.800 This is where you're standing, 0:06:33.800,0:06:36.124 and you drag it with you[br]wherever you go. 0:06:39.294,0:06:42.040 The show in Sao Paulo is really[br]about the prison of life 0:06:42.040,0:06:44.720 where you are trapped[br]in a set of circumstances 0:06:44.720,0:06:48.316 that are biological, temporal,[br]physical, mental. 0:06:48.880,0:06:50.875 You're locked in[br]to a point of view. 0:06:52.320,0:06:56.160 As a culture, we've defined evil[br]in one particular way, 0:06:56.160,0:06:58.200 by building structures[br]to contain it. 0:06:58.200,0:06:59.720 We build prisons. 0:06:59.720,0:07:01.800 And basically, no matter[br]what bad thing you've done, 0:07:01.800,0:07:03.948 you go to jail and that's it. 0:07:09.320,0:07:11.344 Every crime has[br]the same punishment. 0:07:12.315,0:07:13.440 And I was thinking about that, 0:07:13.440,0:07:15.440 and then I was thinking[br]about, in a larger sense, 0:07:15.440,0:07:19.860 how the context of information[br]defines everything. 0:07:21.440,0:07:25.600 So, in a way, each of us is[br]in kind of our own prison, 0:07:25.600,0:07:26.720 like you bring it with you. 0:07:26.720,0:07:30.600 It's the prison of your biology,[br]of your social structure, 0:07:30.600,0:07:31.995 of your life, 0:07:33.440,0:07:37.315 and how that is both a sort[br]of challenge and an opportunity. 0:07:45.080,0:07:48.960 "Proposition Player" is[br]about the idea of risk. 0:07:48.960,0:07:52.040 And it's about the idea of,[br]Is it possible to always win? 0:07:52.040,0:07:54.920 The slogan of this show is[br]"You may already be a winner," 0:07:54.920,0:07:58.120 that takes the idea[br]of a fixed set of relationships 0:07:58.120,0:07:59.200 and turns it into something 0:07:59.200,0:08:03.480 that's completely, you know,[br]shuffle-able, you can mix it up. 0:08:03.480,0:08:05.360 There is no story[br]in a pack of cards, 0:08:05.360,0:08:07.825 but you can tell any story[br]you want to tell. 0:08:08.480,0:08:10.520 So, the cards themselves,[br]you know, 0:08:10.520,0:08:13.640 the first and most important[br]cards are the four aces. 0:08:13.640,0:08:15.320 And the four aces represent 0:08:15.320,0:08:17.440 the four fundamental forces[br]in the universe, 0:08:17.440,0:08:20.245 which is the weak force, the[br]strong force, gravity, and light. 0:08:21.080,0:08:22.840 There's only four forces[br]in the universe, 0:08:22.840,0:08:23.976 conveniently enough for me, 0:08:25.240,0:08:27.560 and, uh, they underlie[br]everything. 0:08:27.560,0:08:29.440 They tie everything together. 0:08:30.080,0:08:33.080 And the four aces generate[br]the four units of measurement, 0:08:33.080,0:08:39.015 which are time, mass, length[br]and temperature. 0:08:45.200,0:08:47.440 To make it into[br]a proper pack of cards, 0:08:47.440,0:08:51.000 of course I had to introduce,[br]um, a joker, 0:08:51.000,0:08:54.760 which is time-- absolute time[br]rather than linear time, 0:08:54.760,0:08:56.120 which is the totality of time, 0:08:56.120,0:08:59.040 the kind of non-time[br]that we all live inside. 0:08:59.040,0:09:00.240 Like we measure off: 0:09:00.240,0:09:01.760 there's the hours[br]and the minutes and the days 0:09:01.760,0:09:04.025 and then there's all of time. 0:09:06.440,0:09:08.480 In the moment of gambling 0:09:08.480,0:09:12.240 between placing your bet[br]and the result of the bet, 0:09:12.240,0:09:14.680 there's a kind of moment[br]of infinite freedom, 0:09:14.680,0:09:17.280 because all the possibilities[br]are there. 0:09:17.280,0:09:19.466 You may already be a winner. 0:09:20.640,0:09:23.160 So you've started out as[br]the smallest possible element, 0:09:23.160,0:09:26.320 a particle[br]in the gigantic universe, 0:09:26.320,0:09:28.760 and gradually you see[br]how essential that particle is 0:09:28.760,0:09:31.845 to everything else, how[br]everything is woven together. 0:09:32.703,0:09:34.400 We're all part[br]of that same structure as well. 0:09:34.400,0:09:36.232 We're all part of the continuum. 0:09:37.789,0:09:39.640 So, that's the idea. 0:09:39.640,0:09:40.680 It's a very simple thing. 0:09:40.680,0:09:42.760 It's like, here you are,[br]this is a... 0:09:42.760,0:09:45.280 literally like a little way[br]of representing you 0:09:45.280,0:09:46.960 in a giant game. 0:09:46.960,0:09:49.480 Come in, put your card[br]on the table and play. 0:09:49.480,0:09:53.080 It's really just sort of taking[br]the traditional aspect 0:09:53.080,0:09:56.560 of confronting large, complex[br]ideas about the universe, 0:09:56.560,0:10:00.926 which is one of awe, and[br]inverting it to one of play. 0:10:30.800,0:10:34.200 This kind of boundary between[br]abstraction and figuration 0:10:34.200,0:10:37.160 became much more interesting[br]to think about 0:10:37.160,0:10:38.800 as a sort of more[br]porous boundary 0:10:38.800,0:10:41.280 between us and everything. 0:10:41.280,0:10:42.560 How do we define the figure? 0:10:42.560,0:10:43.680 How do we limit the figure? 0:10:43.680,0:10:48.200 How do we think of ourselves[br]as this bounded state? 0:10:48.200,0:10:49.760 And so these figures[br]started appearing 0:10:49.760,0:10:51.720 who are really[br]kind of manifestations. 0:10:51.720,0:10:54.960 It was almost like all[br]of the universal ideas 0:10:54.960,0:10:57.880 that I talked about[br]in the earlier work 0:10:57.880,0:11:00.840 decided that they needed[br]to have bodies 0:11:00.840,0:11:02.160 that were much[br]more recognizable. 0:11:02.160,0:11:04.440 They needed to turn back[br]into people 0:11:04.440,0:11:07.560 and walk around and start seeing[br]what that was like. 0:11:07.560,0:11:10.600 And these figures started[br]to kind of emerge. 0:11:10.600,0:11:13.880 Before that, they had been[br]typically more abstract 0:11:13.880,0:11:16.440 in the paintings,[br]more present in the drawings. 0:11:16.440,0:11:18.800 They got very present in the[br]drawings, as you can see now. 0:11:18.800,0:11:20.000 And they're still in the paintings 0:11:20.000,0:11:21.907 they're a little more abstracted, 0:11:22.200,0:11:24.158 but they're very much...[br]they're there. 0:11:24.858,0:11:26.680 And there's this[br]sort of ridiculous idea 0:11:26.680,0:11:28.120 that's left over[br]from the 20th century 0:11:28.120,0:11:31.656 that abstraction and figuration[br]are legitimate poles. 0:11:32.920,0:11:35.840 And I, from the very start, 0:11:35.840,0:11:38.480 have incorporated[br]the two things together, 0:11:38.480,0:11:41.680 been fascinated by the idea that[br]there is really no distinction; 0:11:41.680,0:11:43.637 it's just a question of scale. 0:11:46.932,0:11:48.760 And you can always analyze[br]the visual art 0:11:48.760,0:11:51.600 in terms of content[br]or appearance-- 0:11:51.600,0:11:53.480 these formal qualities. 0:11:53.480,0:11:56.280 I would argue that[br]it's a game to separate them. 0:11:56.280,0:11:58.280 They're indissolubly linked. 0:11:58.280,0:12:02.040 Everything in the material world[br]around us has a narrative. 0:12:02.040,0:12:05.240 So to sort of classify[br]visual art alone 0:12:05.240,0:12:07.760 as the one medium[br]that shouldn't require 0:12:07.760,0:12:10.520 any effort on behalf of anybody[br]to ever understand it-- 0:12:10.520,0:12:13.600 you should just be able to look[br]at it and walk away on a... 0:12:13.600,0:12:15.280 as a pure sensation-- 0:12:15.280,0:12:17.960 that relegates it to the level[br]of like a roller-coaster ride, 0:12:17.960,0:12:20.312 like "Just shut your eyes[br]and enjoy the ride." 0:12:20.560,0:12:22.280 I'm more in mind of saying, 0:12:22.280,0:12:24.480 "Open your eyes[br]and enjoy the ride," 0:12:24.480,0:12:25.760 because it's much more exciting 0:12:25.760,0:12:27.520 if you are thinking[br]and questioning 0:12:27.520,0:12:28.760 and you don't know what it is, 0:12:28.760,0:12:31.440 and it is full[br]of questions and statements 0:12:31.440,0:12:33.080 that you can't possibly grasp, 0:12:33.080,0:12:35.200 because that is[br]a truer reflection 0:12:35.200,0:12:37.440 of just how extraordinary[br]reality is 0:12:37.440,0:12:40.520 than something that's sort[br]of neatly tied up in a bow 0:12:40.520,0:12:44.480 and it's, like, "There, look[br]at that, be at peace, go home." 0:12:44.480,0:12:45.440 I'm more interested in something 0:12:45.440,0:12:47.120 that leaves you[br]asking all those questions, 0:12:47.120,0:12:48.360 like "What is that? 0:12:48.360,0:12:50.143 I don't know what that is."