WEBVTT

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<i>36C3 preproll music</i>

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Herald Angel: Welcome everybody for our
next talk 'Infrastructures in a horizontal

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farmers community'. I guess one thing that
all of us have in common is, that we all

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are in special communities. We want to
build better communities. We want to build

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better infrastructure. And we want to
build better technology, be it in a little

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hackerspace in Sweden or in a theater
group in France or in an NGO in Germany.

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That is something that unites us all. And
our next speaker, Andrea, she is giving us

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some insights into their farming community
in Italy, because she has 15 years of

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experience with that. So I think we can
all learn quite a lot. And Andrea is a

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self-taught web developer. She graduated
in communication sciences. She is also a

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cook and she is part of a group of radical
farmers. I would say she's a little bit of

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everything, a jack of all trades. So,
she's the best person to give us some

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insights. So, please welcome Andrea with a
big, warm round of applause and enjoy this

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talk. Thank you very much.

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Andrea: Well, thanks to you too, everyone,
to stay here. It will be difficult to fit

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in a 30 minute to explain the experience
and to explain the interaction between a

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lot of different communities, not only
these experiencing Bologna, but okay. I

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will speak about Campi Aperti. Campi
Aperti means open field in Italian. And I

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come from Bologna. OK, Bologna, if you
imagine that this is Italy, it's here,

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Bologna. I'm speaking about the growing
vegetable, growing organic food. This is a

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community of a farmers. It's a community
of people that reclaim the rights to grow

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our food and decide how the territories,
the land, the countryside is transformed.

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And so it is direct action. There are
there are some reclaims to change some

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law. But we are not wait that these law in
Italy are changed. But we do directly this

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stuff. This stuff is a survival for
farmers, because the problem is that there

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exists only law in Italy that are for the
transformed, the food, make pizza, bread,

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beer and this stuff and only are made for
industrial production. So, the production

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of unmade, of the farmer is, that there
are no law for these. You can't do sell.

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You can't do direct sell. But this group
of farmers do this is stuff. And so they

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have a political action really, in the
street, in the square. And then they must,

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the more visible stuff that they do, is do
these organic markets. But is not only

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this. Is political stuff. And these food,
their background and their roots in

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radical anti capitalist group and from the
global movement in the 90s. So, where?

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Where are these stuff happen? Happen in
places that are free. Because you can't

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ask at the beginning. Fifteen years ago
you can talk. But also now, probably is

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more difficult. You can't ask the
municipality to start that these kinds of

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markets. And they found a good ground in
squat in square in the street, in places

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that are managed by human agreement, not
the law. And so Campi Aperti was born in

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2003 in XM24 in Bolognina. That is on a
shared, is occupied, public shared space,

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self-managed by our community. Is not a
service, is a place where the needs of the

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community and the answer to these needs,
find an answer and a solution. This place

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is under the threat of eviction and we
support a lot this place. Really, really

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important for our life. So I told you
where and I want also told you how. Not

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how, only how after. When. The time. The
time, it's important stuff. The time, for

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capitalism, is thinking in hours and
money. But, and it's fast, but this, is

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shaped on you, on an egocentric idea. But
this is not the only way to think the

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time. For farmers is really easy. Think of
the time cyclical, not egocentric, not

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human centred way. And so there are habits
to plan the stuff and to take a seasonal

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agreement or seasonal planning. And so,
the first stuff to rethink our life and

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our community is, take our time. Our time
of to grow relationship and our time to

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think how to do this stuff. And our time
when we buy something. Our time to think

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where it came from. The stuff that we buy
and the stuff that we eat. In which how

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are developed and where it comes from.
Where from, from what the community and

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from what territories. OK. This is a gift
that you will find in the slide. If you go

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to check after these talk, you can see
also a video in Creative Commons for sure.

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And but the now I have not the time to
show our action in video. I want to

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explain a bit the infrastructure. The
infrastructure is based on the human

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agreement and the group of Campi Aperti
started with five people in an occupied

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space, public space and they started with
a small market. After and after they grew.

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And now there are more than 150 farmers.
And with thousands of people that come at

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the market and are co-producer of the
products. And so we manage ourself by

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assemblies and we do this stuff for
consensus method. So the topic are food

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autonomy, be independent with the food.
Safeguard the territories, practice

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agroecology and we shared, we have a
shared warranty. So the group of farmer

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not to take, not upset, decentralize the
warranty about organic food by the state,

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but they practice our shared warranty.
Means that everyone, everyone of the

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producer at the market, take care of the
product, also of the orders and and the

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care of the relationship . But this also
means, that if you break the trust, one

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with the other, you go out from the
community. And this looks like difficult

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to decide, but is not so difficult,
because when you are local, and you know

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the products that you grow and the how are
organic, it's easy to to decide this

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stuff. Is a look like that, for explain
some technical people, is like if you not

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trust the certification authority, but you
are based on a web of trust. And so we

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include also in our relationship, in our
work, the sense of the limit and the

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mutualism. So we plan to not grow too much
but to grow only locally. And we divided

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the assembly. There are assembly for every
market, that are 8 every month. There are

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assembly globally all together, every two
months. And the assembly every two months

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locally for our valley, are based on
formal consensus method. This means that

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we trained us to stay in the consensus
area. We know that the agreement are based

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in balance between a relationship and
knowledge. We come all from a different

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knowledge, because we are specialized in
different stuff and that we have to grow

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together our relationship, so we can, we
try to stay in this area of consensus

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knowing that we are different knowledge,
but I trust. We don't want to stay in

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ananomity. We don't want stay always agree
all together, because there are a lot of

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risk in that area. You can, in this area,
you grow the diversity. In that area, you

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are doing echo chambers and you are doing,
you can do easily mistake in the unanimity

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place. In the other, you find the low
trust and different knowledge. So you are

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in dissent normally and you have of low
relationship, so low trust. But a full

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agreement of what do you want for the
future? The only stuff that you can do is

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take a technical agreement together. So
write really specific law. But we don't

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want law, so we want the agreement and the
guideline. The other stuff are done by

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trust, one with the other. So, told you
that we use formal consensus method, means

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that in these distributed meeting, we have
shared agreements. We start with a base

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ground that is that every assembly is
reported. So at the beginning of every

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assembly, we choose a rapporteur, or more
than one, because sometimes there are

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global assembly, that start at the morning
and finish in the evening. And so, we have

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a time, a keeper for the speaker. And we
decide to put in our agreement that the

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right to listen and to be listened and
that no meta conversation of the topic,

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only everyone talk speak for herself.
Okay, we need that to communicate. And

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when we started to think about the
communication, we speak with another

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community that know better this stuff
about communication than us and we found,

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and we know, because we share that same
the same political idea, with hackmeeting.

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Hackmeeting is a community in Italy that
is anti fascist, anti racist and anti

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sexist, and was born in the 90s also, that
the community and every year they meet in

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different space, occupied space in Italy.
They are for the freedom in the

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communication, and with a critical view
about technologies. So, we ask asked and

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we discover a lot of self managed server,
and for first tools that we implemented in

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the 2004, was our website.Yeah. And we
started with a lot of mailing list. The

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first tool was mailing list and after, to
communicate outside in the group, we

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started with this website hosted
autistici/inventati. That is one of the

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older self managed server in Italy near
us, with a strong view about anonymity and

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the privacy oriented for the user. The
communication are really, really

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important. In group that live in the
countryside you live in different farm,

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far from one from the other. And so
happened, that to use the mailing list,

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all people need the connectivity. So, what
happened that if you based your

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connectivity on a commercial companies and
your are in countryside, you discovered

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that you are told: No, you are still far
from the city and we don't earn too much

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enough to bring to you connectivity. And
so, we started to explore how to resolve

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this problem. And we discovered that
exists yet a community that have thought

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to this stuff and that yet existed a Pico
peer (Peer to Peer) agreement. And in Italy, we

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meet ninux, ninux community that are
based, that shared us and teach us how set

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mesh network. And so I show you a bit of
photograph. Our infrastructure is a small

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and grow really slowly, and is based, our
hardware are 15 people that want stay

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connected, one with the other, and
understood that the broadcasting

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connection is nice, is really lighter, use
5Ghz point to point antenna, to do point

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to point connection and so the cost to
stay, to learn and to do maintain that

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network is an effort that they can do. And
we found also for people more technician

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that help, is like help to install Linux,
but here we install OpenWrt. And after

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that people know how maintain and take
care, they in freedom their PC. And in

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this case, antenna. We use all super
proprietary hardware that we change the

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firmware and we use tp-link ubiquity but
we are switching to an open hardware

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project that is LibreRouter, and as
software we use LibraMesh, libremesh.org.

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That is a project, that is a bundle of
configuration open over OpenWrt. And that

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use a different protocol like babeld and
batman adv. But yeah, the topic of them is

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make easier this stuff for the user, and
they do. So, we have a blog

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antennine.noblogs.org. That where we take
the documentation of this stuff. We think

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a lot about technology. Also think, why we
are adopt technology. And so we started to

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deploy a feminist view about technologies.
Means, that we thinks that every

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technologies is an effort. When someone
told to you, that this technology is

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smarter, sometime is because is not the
considering the entire cycle of life of

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that technologies. And so looking a lot in
the technologies that everyone this moment

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is doing advertisement about technologies:
hey use this, is easy. We think: ok no,

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stop. Stop. Is better wait and think what
do we are doing. So we think that it's

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important not to do the things alone,
because you became the point of failure of

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your of your community. To be resistant
you need to do this stuff with more

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people, not start if you are alone, and
mix proficient people with newbie.

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Contemplated the possibility of making
mistake and so, build the testing

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environment before put the stuff in
production. Document everything to explain

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the choice that you took, and that give
the time to yourself and to the other to

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study, and not to be too much specialized.
Specialized brings people too easily to go

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to burnout. It's better, if you trust
yourself in more than one topic and share

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knowledge with the other. Not to go too
much in deep in one topic, because you

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lost the entire view, and why you are
doing something. You are not pay for to do

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this stuff for community, is a need for
community and is a richness of for

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everyone of your community, in our view,
in our way that we do this stuff. So, we

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start from our needs. We started to speak
about our digital data in 2016. This is a

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meeting of a Genuino Clandestino. That is
the bigger network of self organized

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farmers in Italy. And there are a lot of
different small communities that do, that

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to grow vegetable and do direct sell in
shared public space. And we started to

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speak about our digital data and we
decided, that we don't want to put in

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Google, Amazon, Facebook, Microsoft, Apple
space. We are anti GAFAM. And because

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we are against the big distribution of the
food and also big distribution of the

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data, we think that in this moment is
really important to take care of our

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intimacies and our data. So we decided to
put in server and to run ourself these

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services. And we spend a one hour, one
year to find a virtual private server.

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Someone that host our digital place that
shared with us our policy, and we found in

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France, in Toulouse, the tetaneutral.net.
That is inside of a bigger network that is

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federated france data network and are
really important for us, because they, I

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thinks that they do a good work, because
of they are for the neutrality, for

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freedom of choice to the internet and with
budget based on donation of the community.

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We've passed a lot of time to find, inside
our community of farmers, sysadmin and we

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found, and we started to use the Nextcloud
as a free software to where host our data.

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And we decide to start, we started in
March of this year, and we decided to

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start to use only for administrative work.
So, only for 10 people of the group. And

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after deciding if these are tool is OK for
our needs or not. If is not we will see

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and we are just in time to go back and not
use. But at the moment, the stuff are

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running good, and we are store in this
cloud the cards about our farmers. Because

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we make everyone to enter in Campi Aperti
needs to be visited by another farmer, and

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that to know the, how they grow vegetable
and the how they do organic stuff. And so,

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we write dossier of ourself, and it's why
the website was not more enough. We need

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private place where store this stuff, also
to decentralize the task that we have to

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do. To distribute the task. And so, after
this one year of testing, we are planning

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how to grow, okay. If all the stuff are
going good, we decide how to grow. And so

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again, we decide to not to do this stuff
alone. We look around in a community near

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to us and we decide again to adopt
something that is yet to use the body

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(???) of community that is anti-fascist,
anti-racist and anti-sexist. That is

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Autistici/Inventati. They change the
infrastructure this year and they moved

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container infrastructure to have divided
the configuration, the specific

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configuration, the configuration that you
can share with other and the software. All

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this free stuff are managed by
minimalistic orchestrator container. And

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that is called the FLOAT. And we find this
solution interesting, also because we

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started with the other possibility of a
solution, and we saw that in this moment

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there are huge software also open source,
that can resolve this problem. But

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developed and used by huge open source
company that not really feed our needs. So, we

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are interesting in this software, because
give static service allocation, like some

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of these feature looks like not real, are
non feature for the needs of the

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companies. But for us are, because we have
our community, so we have different needs.

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So, how its work, quickly. Because yeah,
we are at the CCC, I have to show you

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something of technical. So, we have a
specific genetic configuration, that we

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versioning with GIT. We use Ansibel to
versioning our configuration and the

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software, so the generic part, is builded
by the continuous integration that we have

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on our decision Autistici/Inventati. That
is builded in a... we have a Docker

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registry and build the Docker image. And
so, FLOAT deployed, running our Ansible

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playbook, deploy the different Docker
image on the different machine. So, why

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it's good for us? Because we can
versioning all the stuff, so we can also

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do mistake but go back and we can deploy
on virtual machine, where we can do

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testing and on the real production on the
real machine. This is, I thinks why we

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thinks to adopt. Also, because we want not
use, we don't want to stay on a virtual

00:26:32.690 --> 00:26:40.400
machine, we would like move on bare metal
and we trust to the group, these

00:26:40.400 --> 00:26:50.460
orchestrator is only 1000 line of Python
code, and is written like, is Ansibl

00:26:50.460 --> 00:26:59.029
plugin and we can use the double factor
authentication, universal two factor

00:26:59.029 --> 00:27:04.120
authentication. That is good for us,
because if you have for the stuff that

00:27:04.120 --> 00:27:10.789
your security is base, could be based on
how to do a token. So you have a security

00:27:10.789 --> 00:27:18.950
in something of local, that you have to
keep. And in some integrated monitoring,

00:27:18.950 --> 00:27:26.960
like Prometeus and Graphader (???). And
this feature, or non- feature is, that the

00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:32.300
services go down when something fail. And
this is, for us, this is important. We are

00:27:32.300 --> 00:27:38.230
not a company that have to stay 24 hour
up. We are a community that they want to

00:27:38.230 --> 00:27:45.049
know, if something goes wrong with your
machine and if someone put physically the

00:27:45.049 --> 00:27:56.590
hands on your machine. Yeah, this is, now
is the time of the question. Slow please,

00:27:56.590 --> 00:28:02.779
the question, because I don't speak really
well English <i>Andrea laughs</i> you see now?

00:28:02.779 --> 00:28:08.820
But also I don't understand really well.
And these is the long list of thanks and

00:28:08.820 --> 00:28:15.289
all the community that I speak about.
There is also EclecticTechCarnival, that

00:28:15.289 --> 00:28:23.580
is a feminist community, that pushed a lot
to me to arrive here to explain this stuff

00:28:23.580 --> 00:28:30.559
to you. And thanks.

00:28:30.559 --> 00:28:36.220
<i>applause</i>

00:28:36.220 --> 00:28:41.140
Herald Angel: Thank you very much for the
great talk. It was very, very interesting.

00:28:41.140 --> 00:28:45.149
We still have 10 minutes for questions and
answers. If you have questions, just move

00:28:45.149 --> 00:28:50.740
to the three microphones in the room, and
then we're going to have you ask your

00:28:50.740 --> 00:28:54.610
questions. So, we start with microphone
number two. Very slow in English, please.

00:28:54.610 --> 00:28:58.799
Andrea: Yes.
Mic 2: Thank you very much for the talk. I

00:28:58.799 --> 00:29:03.970
have a question. The customers, do they
pay in advance for a year or do they pay

00:29:03.970 --> 00:29:11.760
at the market?
Andrea: Ok. In Bologna, in Campi Aperti

00:29:11.760 --> 00:29:19.289
experience is direct sell in the market.
So the co-producer, the consumer pay at

00:29:19.289 --> 00:29:25.570
the moment. But we know that that is not
the perfect model and there are other

00:29:25.570 --> 00:29:30.760
other experiment the city, in which Campi
Aperti and this group of farmer is

00:29:30.760 --> 00:29:43.000
involved. And so, there is also Arvaia,
that is another group that the customer

00:29:43.000 --> 00:29:52.370
pay in advance. And have a place, and also
work in fields, and take boxes every week.

00:29:52.370 --> 00:30:03.210
And there is also another project, that is
Camilla and is based on... you are

00:30:03.210 --> 00:30:13.309
associated and you have to work three
hours every month in a market. And there

00:30:13.309 --> 00:30:18.909
is this market open for all the
association, all the people associated to

00:30:18.909 --> 00:30:26.320
these. So, it is a city that is
experimented. But yes, for Campi Aperti,

00:30:26.320 --> 00:30:29.720
you not pay in advance it. Only for, in
other projects.

00:30:29.720 --> 00:30:34.409
Mic2: Is it okay if I ask something else?
Herald Angel: If it's... Well, I would

00:30:34.409 --> 00:30:37.399
first take microphone number three. But if
you just stay there, I feel like there

00:30:37.399 --> 00:30:40.919
would be still time for another question.
So, microphone number three, please.

00:30:40.919 --> 00:30:48.410
Mic3: Yes. I have a question about
consensus. You mentioned that some level

00:30:48.410 --> 00:30:54.080
of disagreement is not only acceptable,
but maybe good, because if everyone

00:30:54.080 --> 00:31:00.500
agrees, then there is no discussion,
development and less trust. But what level

00:31:00.500 --> 00:31:05.741
of disagreement is acceptable? Have you
tried different models, like how you

00:31:05.741 --> 00:31:13.139
achieve this consensus?
Andrea: Yeah, we think that disagreement

00:31:13.139 --> 00:31:21.950
is important to not hide problems. So
also, we put attention to not to say at

00:31:21.950 --> 00:31:29.330
the end of a conversation we are all
agree, but for example, if someone of more

00:31:29.330 --> 00:31:40.100
doubt and we have a formal way of a
consensus. So, to be sure that we are all

00:31:40.100 --> 00:31:47.779
agree, we do an orientation, we call it,
and that means that you can divide the

00:31:47.779 --> 00:32:01.940
group in three position. Active consent,
consensus with doubts but that you think

00:32:01.940 --> 00:32:08.100
that trust is enough, so you are agree,
but you will be not active to do this

00:32:08.100 --> 00:32:16.320
stuff. And the active dissensus, that
means, that the decision that are you

00:32:16.320 --> 00:32:24.169
taking is against the principle and if you
put yourself in that position, you have to

00:32:24.169 --> 00:32:31.639
explain to all the others and you have to
do again an orientation. But if you are

00:32:31.639 --> 00:32:39.899
more than 20% of the people that stay in
active dissent, you have to re-discuss

00:32:39.899 --> 00:32:46.690
all. So, became block, blocked.
Herald Angel: Great, thanks for the

00:32:46.690 --> 00:32:49.970
explanation. That was very interesting.
Microphone number two, again.

00:32:49.970 --> 00:32:55.920
Mic2: Thank you for your talk. I wanted to
ask whether you have any mechanism to help

00:32:55.920 --> 00:33:01.289
people that want to become farmers,
especially to acquire new land.

00:33:01.289 --> 00:33:08.320
Andrea: Hmm. Existed a project and now is
not the more active. We are sad, because

00:33:08.320 --> 00:33:16.919
it's not more active and because this
project started from people that had these

00:33:16.919 --> 00:33:23.880
need. And after they found the land and
say: ok, we have not more the time. And we

00:33:23.880 --> 00:33:36.700
have, we not find again who put the time
in that project. And so, there is not a

00:33:36.700 --> 00:33:46.710
real... process in which we help people to
became farmer. But, for example, the

00:33:46.710 --> 00:33:52.639
mailing list is open. Everyone that
participated to the market can be says can

00:33:52.639 --> 00:33:57.381
join the mailing list and also the
assembly and the meeting and so happen a

00:33:57.381 --> 00:34:05.320
lot of time and that the people asked for
space in countryside so find information.

00:34:05.320 --> 00:34:12.770
And the other stuff, that really change,
make the change is, that a lot of people

00:34:12.770 --> 00:34:20.890
come in Campi Aperti asking us to do
transformation, to transform only the food

00:34:20.890 --> 00:34:27.090
and this fact is not acceptable in Campi
Aperti. The people are not can only

00:34:27.090 --> 00:34:32.530
transformate the food. We are, we do
practice for be independent from

00:34:32.530 --> 00:34:43.690
capitalism for our food. And so you can't
ask only to transforme. So they... we ask

00:34:43.690 --> 00:34:52.940
to these people to start a project to grow
vegetables and became a farmer. And so...

00:34:52.940 --> 00:35:02.690
or started an active collaboration with a
group of farmer yet exist. And so in this

00:35:02.690 --> 00:35:06.869
way started more people to live in
countryside.

00:35:06.869 --> 00:35:10.869
Herald Angel: Thank you very much. Next
up, we have a question from the Internet.

00:35:10.869 --> 00:35:18.580
Signal Angel: You seem to have gone really
far in doing a lot of things yourself. Do

00:35:18.580 --> 00:35:22.819
you still rely on a lot of mainstream
technologies? Or did you re-implement

00:35:22.819 --> 00:35:25.680
everything yourself?
Andrea: Do you...?

00:35:25.680 --> 00:35:30.910
Herald Angel: Is everything self-made? Or
do you still rely on some mainstream

00:35:30.910 --> 00:35:35.760
technologies? Is there something that you
use, that is mainstream capitalist, that

00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:39.359
everybody else uses too? Like, you
mentioned that you don't use Google or

00:35:39.359 --> 00:35:42.910
Facebook or something like that. Apart
from that, is that something mainstream

00:35:42.910 --> 00:35:47.920
that you still use that you rely on?
Andrea: Yeah. We are not monopolistic.

00:35:47.920 --> 00:35:59.701
Like, we have the basic communication
independant infrastructure, but yes, some

00:35:59.701 --> 00:36:06.520
of them are, we are not the direct running
Autistici. We are based that on self-

00:36:06.520 --> 00:36:13.970
managed servers. So, same community that
the shared with us a political topic, but

00:36:13.970 --> 00:36:22.180
in that way we are not running the
service. We are not running the service.

00:36:22.180 --> 00:36:28.530
To communicate that we use the Website and
the mailing list, so we have our

00:36:28.530 --> 00:36:39.130
independent communication, but there is
not... we not avoid people of us that use

00:36:39.130 --> 00:36:46.730
also commercial instrument or commercial
such network. All this stuff is only that

00:36:46.730 --> 00:36:54.860
we don't trust that too much, that way of
communication will be really useful when

00:36:54.860 --> 00:36:59.060
when we need. Or...
Herald Angel: All right. Another question

00:36:59.060 --> 00:37:02.970
from microphone number two, please.
Mic2: Hi. Thank you for your presentation.

00:37:02.970 --> 00:37:10.119
In your presentation, you mention dossier
written by farmers about the other

00:37:10.119 --> 00:37:16.240
farmers, and farmers visiting other
farmers. I wanted to ask, these dossier,

00:37:16.240 --> 00:37:22.470
what kind of information do they collect
and how are they used? I mean, what's the

00:37:22.470 --> 00:37:27.670
purpose of the dossier and what
information do they collect?

00:37:27.670 --> 00:37:40.970
Andrea: Okay. Is the protocol of shared
warranty. And so, a person that want enter

00:37:40.970 --> 00:37:51.300
in Campi Aperti from the website, can ask
to be visit and starter to fill a form and

00:37:51.300 --> 00:38:02.250
fill dossier, these cards. And after,
these cards go to the people, assembly of

00:38:02.250 --> 00:38:10.619
that valley, the valley where this farmer
come from and decide when do the visit. So

00:38:10.619 --> 00:38:19.210
this visit is reported to the next
assembly. And who did the the visit say,

00:38:19.210 --> 00:38:28.550
what this person wrote in the card is a
true or not true. And so, also here you

00:38:28.550 --> 00:38:39.180
have a, you have the weight of trust, of
the whole much trust of the words of a

00:38:39.180 --> 00:38:48.560
person that asked to enter, and we
store this card, this dossier and we

00:38:48.560 --> 00:38:55.619
print. We print and we put physically on
the desk when people do the market.

00:38:55.619 --> 00:39:02.560
Because it's really important that people
that come to buy the stuff, know where and

00:39:02.560 --> 00:39:07.819
if we want to go also to visit the
producer. And also, because I told you

00:39:07.819 --> 00:39:16.710
that the some of that organic stuff are
organic, but not that with the

00:39:16.710 --> 00:39:22.290
certification by the state. And also a lot
of the stuff that are transformed are

00:39:22.290 --> 00:39:26.440
inside of the campaign Genuino
Clandestino. That means that are

00:39:26.440 --> 00:39:33.480
transformed, handmade, but the out of the
law. And so you need that, that people are

00:39:33.480 --> 00:39:37.170
well-informed, who buy this stuff.
Mic2: Ok, so...

00:39:37.170 --> 00:39:41.420
Herald Angel: Sorry. Sorry. I'm very
sorry. But we don't have time for a back

00:39:41.420 --> 00:39:44.571
up questions. Also, I'm very sorry, I
would have loved to have the person who

00:39:44.571 --> 00:39:47.880
ask the first question also have like,
asked the last question, but we ran out of

00:39:47.880 --> 00:39:52.360
time. But I'm sure that you can still
catch Andrea after the talk and ask

00:39:52.360 --> 00:39:56.010
whatever questions were not answered. So,
first of all, thanks for all of your very

00:39:56.010 --> 00:39:59.930
interesting and clever questions and also
thank you very much, Andrea, for the great

00:39:59.930 --> 00:40:04.310
presentation. Please give another big,
warm round of applause for Andrea. Thank

00:40:04.310 --> 00:40:06.310
you very much.
Andrea: Thanks, see you.

00:40:06.310 --> 00:40:07.310
<i>applause</i>

00:40:07.310 --> 00:40:08.310
<i>postroll music</i>

00:40:08.310 --> 00:40:35.000
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