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36C3 preproll music
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Herald Angel: Welcome everybody for our[br]next talk 'Infrastructures in a horizontal
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farmers community'. I guess one thing that[br]all of us have in common is, that we all
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are in special communities. We want to[br]build better communities. We want to build
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better infrastructure. And we want to[br]build better technology, be it in a little
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hackerspace in Sweden or in a theater[br]group in France or in an NGO in Germany.
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That is something that unites us all. And[br]our next speaker, Andrea, she is giving us
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some insights into their farming community[br]in Italy, because she has 15 years of
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experience with that. So I think we can[br]all learn quite a lot. And Andrea is a
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self-taught web developer. She graduated[br]in communication sciences. She is also a
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cook and she is part of a group of radical[br]farmers. I would say she's a little bit of
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everything, a jack of all trades. So,[br]she's the best person to give us some
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insights. So, please welcome Andrea with a[br]big, warm round of applause and enjoy this
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talk. Thank you very much.
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Andrea: Well, thanks to you too, everyone,[br]to stay here. It will be difficult to fit
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in a 30 minute to explain the experience[br]and to explain the interaction between a
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lot of different communities, not only[br]these experiencing Bologna, but okay. I
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will speak about Campi Aperti. Campi[br]Aperti means open field in Italian. And I
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come from Bologna. OK, Bologna, if you[br]imagine that this is Italy, it's here,
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Bologna. I'm speaking about the growing[br]vegetable, growing organic food. This is a
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community of a farmers. It's a community[br]of people that reclaim the rights to grow
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our food and decide how the territories,[br]the land, the countryside is transformed.
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And so it is direct action. There are[br]there are some reclaims to change some
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law. But we are not wait that these law in[br]Italy are changed. But we do directly this
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stuff. This stuff is a survival for[br]farmers, because the problem is that there
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exists only law in Italy that are for the[br]transformed, the food, make pizza, bread,
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beer and this stuff and only are made for[br]industrial production. So, the production
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of unmade, of the farmer is, that there[br]are no law for these. You can't do sell.
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You can't do direct sell. But this group[br]of farmers do this is stuff. And so they
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have a political action really, in the[br]street, in the square. And then they must,
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the more visible stuff that they do, is do[br]these organic markets. But is not only
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this. Is political stuff. And these food,[br]their background and their roots in
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radical anti capitalist group and from the[br]global movement in the 90s. So, where?
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Where are these stuff happen? Happen in[br]places that are free. Because you can't
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ask at the beginning. Fifteen years ago[br]you can talk. But also now, probably is
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more difficult. You can't ask the[br]municipality to start that these kinds of
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markets. And they found a good ground in[br]squat in square in the street, in places
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that are managed by human agreement, not[br]the law. And so Campi Aperti was born in
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2003 in XM24 in Bolognina. That is on a[br]shared, is occupied, public shared space,
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self-managed by our community. Is not a[br]service, is a place where the needs of the
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community and the answer to these needs,[br]find an answer and a solution. This place
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is under the threat of eviction and we[br]support a lot this place. Really, really
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important for our life. So I told you[br]where and I want also told you how. Not
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how, only how after. When. The time. The[br]time, it's important stuff. The time, for
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capitalism, is thinking in hours and[br]money. But, and it's fast, but this, is
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shaped on you, on an egocentric idea. But[br]this is not the only way to think the
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time. For farmers is really easy. Think of[br]the time cyclical, not egocentric, not
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human centred way. And so there are habits[br]to plan the stuff and to take a seasonal
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agreement or seasonal planning. And so,[br]the first stuff to rethink our life and
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our community is, take our time. Our time[br]of to grow relationship and our time to
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think how to do this stuff. And our time[br]when we buy something. Our time to think
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where it came from. The stuff that we buy[br]and the stuff that we eat. In which how
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are developed and where it comes from.[br]Where from, from what the community and
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from what territories. OK. This is a gift[br]that you will find in the slide. If you go
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to check after these talk, you can see[br]also a video in Creative Commons for sure.
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And but the now I have not the time to[br]show our action in video. I want to
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explain a bit the infrastructure. The[br]infrastructure is based on the human
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agreement and the group of Campi Aperti[br]started with five people in an occupied
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space, public space and they started with[br]a small market. After and after they grew.
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And now there are more than 150 farmers.[br]And with thousands of people that come at
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the market and are co-producer of the[br]products. And so we manage ourself by
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assemblies and we do this stuff for[br]consensus method. So the topic are food
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autonomy, be independent with the food.[br]Safeguard the territories, practice
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agroecology and we shared, we have a[br]shared warranty. So the group of farmer
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not to take, not upset, decentralize the[br]warranty about organic food by the state,
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but they practice our shared warranty.[br]Means that everyone, everyone of the
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producer at the market, take care of the[br]product, also of the orders and and the
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care of the relationship . But this also[br]means, that if you break the trust, one
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with the other, you go out from the[br]community. And this looks like difficult
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to decide, but is not so difficult,[br]because when you are local, and you know
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the products that you grow and the how are[br]organic, it's easy to to decide this
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stuff. Is a look like that, for explain[br]some technical people, is like if you not
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trust the certification authority, but you[br]are based on a web of trust. And so we
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include also in our relationship, in our[br]work, the sense of the limit and the
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mutualism. So we plan to not grow too much[br]but to grow only locally. And we divided
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the assembly. There are assembly for every[br]market, that are 8 every month. There are
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assembly globally all together, every two[br]months. And the assembly every two months
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locally for our valley, are based on[br]formal consensus method. This means that
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we trained us to stay in the consensus[br]area. We know that the agreement are based
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in balance between a relationship and[br]knowledge. We come all from a different
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knowledge, because we are specialized in[br]different stuff and that we have to grow
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together our relationship, so we can, we[br]try to stay in this area of consensus
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knowing that we are different knowledge,[br]but I trust. We don't want to stay in
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ananomity. We don't want stay always agree[br]all together, because there are a lot of
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risk in that area. You can, in this area,[br]you grow the diversity. In that area, you
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are doing echo chambers and you are doing,[br]you can do easily mistake in the unanimity
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place. In the other, you find the low[br]trust and different knowledge. So you are
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in dissent normally and you have of low[br]relationship, so low trust. But a full
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agreement of what do you want for the[br]future? The only stuff that you can do is
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take a technical agreement together. So[br]write really specific law. But we don't
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want law, so we want the agreement and the[br]guideline. The other stuff are done by
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trust, one with the other. So, told you[br]that we use formal consensus method, means
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that in these distributed meeting, we have[br]shared agreements. We start with a base
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ground that is that every assembly is[br]reported. So at the beginning of every
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assembly, we choose a rapporteur, or more[br]than one, because sometimes there are
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global assembly, that start at the morning[br]and finish in the evening. And so, we have
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a time, a keeper for the speaker. And we[br]decide to put in our agreement that the
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right to listen and to be listened and[br]that no meta conversation of the topic,
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only everyone talk speak for herself.[br]Okay, we need that to communicate. And
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when we started to think about the[br]communication, we speak with another
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community that know better this stuff[br]about communication than us and we found,
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and we know, because we share that same[br]the same political idea, with hackmeeting.
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Hackmeeting is a community in Italy that[br]is anti fascist, anti racist and anti
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sexist, and was born in the 90s also, that[br]the community and every year they meet in
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different space, occupied space in Italy.[br]They are for the freedom in the
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communication, and with a critical view[br]about technologies. So, we ask asked and
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we discover a lot of self managed server,[br]and for first tools that we implemented in
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the 2004, was our website.Yeah. And we[br]started with a lot of mailing list. The
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first tool was mailing list and after, to[br]communicate outside in the group, we
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started with this website hosted[br]autistici/inventati. That is one of the
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older self managed server in Italy near[br]us, with a strong view about anonymity and
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the privacy oriented for the user. The[br]communication are really, really
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important. In group that live in the[br]countryside you live in different farm,
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far from one from the other. And so[br]happened, that to use the mailing list,
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all people need the connectivity. So, what[br]happened that if you based your
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connectivity on a commercial companies and[br]your are in countryside, you discovered
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that you are told: No, you are still far[br]from the city and we don't earn too much
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enough to bring to you connectivity. And[br]so, we started to explore how to resolve
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this problem. And we discovered that[br]exists yet a community that have thought
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to this stuff and that yet existed a Pico[br]peer (Peer to Peer) agreement. And in Italy, we
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meet ninux, ninux community that are[br]based, that shared us and teach us how set
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mesh network. And so I show you a bit of[br]photograph. Our infrastructure is a small
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and grow really slowly, and is based, our[br]hardware are 15 people that want stay
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connected, one with the other, and[br]understood that the broadcasting
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connection is nice, is really lighter, use[br]5Ghz point to point antenna, to do point
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to point connection and so the cost to[br]stay, to learn and to do maintain that
0:16:02.600,0:16:09.709
network is an effort that they can do. And[br]we found also for people more technician
0:16:09.709,0:16:18.690
that help, is like help to install Linux,[br]but here we install OpenWrt. And after
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that people know how maintain and take[br]care, they in freedom their PC. And in
0:16:25.100,0:16:30.870
this case, antenna. We use all super[br]proprietary hardware that we change the
0:16:30.870,0:16:36.230
firmware and we use tp-link ubiquity but[br]we are switching to an open hardware
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project that is LibreRouter, and as[br]software we use LibraMesh, libremesh.org.
0:16:43.799,0:16:58.449
That is a project, that is a bundle of[br]configuration open over OpenWrt. And that
0:16:58.449,0:17:08.400
use a different protocol like babeld and[br]batman adv. But yeah, the topic of them is
0:17:08.400,0:17:13.220
make easier this stuff for the user, and[br]they do. So, we have a blog
0:17:13.220,0:17:20.770
antennine.noblogs.org. That where we take[br]the documentation of this stuff. We think
0:17:20.770,0:17:30.110
a lot about technology. Also think, why we[br]are adopt technology. And so we started to
0:17:30.110,0:17:40.020
deploy a feminist view about technologies.[br]Means, that we thinks that every
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technologies is an effort. When someone[br]told to you, that this technology is
0:17:45.690,0:17:53.750
smarter, sometime is because is not the[br]considering the entire cycle of life of
0:17:53.750,0:18:02.830
that technologies. And so looking a lot in[br]the technologies that everyone this moment
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is doing advertisement about technologies:[br]hey use this, is easy. We think: ok no,
0:18:10.799,0:18:16.320
stop. Stop. Is better wait and think what[br]do we are doing. So we think that it's
0:18:16.320,0:18:23.260
important not to do the things alone,[br]because you became the point of failure of
0:18:23.260,0:18:29.081
your of your community. To be resistant[br]you need to do this stuff with more
0:18:29.081,0:18:37.480
people, not start if you are alone, and[br]mix proficient people with newbie.
0:18:37.480,0:18:42.110
Contemplated the possibility of making[br]mistake and so, build the testing
0:18:42.110,0:18:47.320
environment before put the stuff in[br]production. Document everything to explain
0:18:47.320,0:18:52.681
the choice that you took, and that give[br]the time to yourself and to the other to
0:18:52.681,0:19:00.620
study, and not to be too much specialized.[br]Specialized brings people too easily to go
0:19:00.620,0:19:10.390
to burnout. It's better, if you trust[br]yourself in more than one topic and share
0:19:10.390,0:19:14.610
knowledge with the other. Not to go too[br]much in deep in one topic, because you
0:19:14.610,0:19:21.800
lost the entire view, and why you are[br]doing something. You are not pay for to do
0:19:21.800,0:19:26.340
this stuff for community, is a need for[br]community and is a richness of for
0:19:26.340,0:19:35.029
everyone of your community, in our view,[br]in our way that we do this stuff. So, we
0:19:35.029,0:19:44.240
start from our needs. We started to speak[br]about our digital data in 2016. This is a
0:19:44.240,0:19:51.120
meeting of a Genuino Clandestino. That is[br]the bigger network of self organized
0:19:51.120,0:19:56.460
farmers in Italy. And there are a lot of[br]different small communities that do, that
0:19:56.460,0:20:02.620
to grow vegetable and do direct sell in[br]shared public space. And we started to
0:20:02.620,0:20:07.419
speak about our digital data and we[br]decided, that we don't want to put in
0:20:07.419,0:20:14.590
Google, Amazon, Facebook, Microsoft, Apple[br]space. We are anti GAFAM. And because
0:20:14.590,0:20:20.220
we are against the big distribution of the[br]food and also big distribution of the
0:20:20.220,0:20:25.289
data, we think that in this moment is[br]really important to take care of our
0:20:25.289,0:20:35.930
intimacies and our data. So we decided to[br]put in server and to run ourself these
0:20:35.930,0:20:46.870
services. And we spend a one hour, one[br]year to find a virtual private server.
0:20:46.870,0:20:54.900
Someone that host our digital place that[br]shared with us our policy, and we found in
0:20:54.900,0:21:02.850
France, in Toulouse, the tetaneutral.net.[br]That is inside of a bigger network that is
0:21:02.850,0:21:09.850
federated france data network and are[br]really important for us, because they, I
0:21:09.850,0:21:13.380
thinks that they do a good work, because[br]of they are for the neutrality, for
0:21:13.380,0:21:22.960
freedom of choice to the internet and with[br]budget based on donation of the community.
0:21:22.960,0:21:28.919
We've passed a lot of time to find, inside[br]our community of farmers, sysadmin and we
0:21:28.919,0:21:37.929
found, and we started to use the Nextcloud[br]as a free software to where host our data.
0:21:37.929,0:21:45.190
And we decide to start, we started in[br]March of this year, and we decided to
0:21:45.190,0:21:54.210
start to use only for administrative work.[br]So, only for 10 people of the group. And
0:21:54.210,0:22:01.261
after deciding if these are tool is OK for[br]our needs or not. If is not we will see
0:22:01.261,0:22:08.610
and we are just in time to go back and not[br]use. But at the moment, the stuff are
0:22:08.610,0:22:20.220
running good, and we are store in this[br]cloud the cards about our farmers. Because
0:22:20.220,0:22:27.260
we make everyone to enter in Campi Aperti[br]needs to be visited by another farmer, and
0:22:27.260,0:22:36.049
that to know the, how they grow vegetable[br]and the how they do organic stuff. And so,
0:22:36.049,0:22:45.450
we write dossier of ourself, and it's why[br]the website was not more enough. We need
0:22:45.450,0:22:53.840
private place where store this stuff, also[br]to decentralize the task that we have to
0:22:53.840,0:23:01.350
do. To distribute the task. And so, after[br]this one year of testing, we are planning
0:23:01.350,0:23:09.929
how to grow, okay. If all the stuff are[br]going good, we decide how to grow. And so
0:23:09.929,0:23:16.240
again, we decide to not to do this stuff[br]alone. We look around in a community near
0:23:16.240,0:23:24.529
to us and we decide again to adopt[br]something that is yet to use the body
0:23:24.529,0:23:26.890
(???) of community that is anti-fascist,[br]anti-racist and anti-sexist. That is
0:23:26.890,0:23:38.640
Autistici/Inventati. They change the[br]infrastructure this year and they moved
0:23:38.640,0:23:50.090
container infrastructure to have divided[br]the configuration, the specific
0:23:50.090,0:23:57.899
configuration, the configuration that you[br]can share with other and the software. All
0:23:57.899,0:24:10.220
this free stuff are managed by[br]minimalistic orchestrator container. And
0:24:10.220,0:24:17.789
that is called the FLOAT. And we find this[br]solution interesting, also because we
0:24:17.789,0:24:27.960
started with the other possibility of a[br]solution, and we saw that in this moment
0:24:27.960,0:24:36.870
there are huge software also open source,[br]that can resolve this problem. But
0:24:36.870,0:24:44.630
developed and used by huge open source[br]company that not really feed our needs. So, we
0:24:44.630,0:24:50.519
are interesting in this software, because[br]give static service allocation, like some
0:24:50.519,0:24:57.380
of these feature looks like not real, are[br]non feature for the needs of the
0:24:57.380,0:25:04.750
companies. But for us are, because we have[br]our community, so we have different needs.
0:25:04.750,0:25:11.640
So, how its work, quickly. Because yeah,[br]we are at the CCC, I have to show you
0:25:11.640,0:25:17.470
something of technical. So, we have a[br]specific genetic configuration, that we
0:25:17.470,0:25:24.269
versioning with GIT. We use Ansibel to[br]versioning our configuration and the
0:25:24.269,0:25:32.809
software, so the generic part, is builded[br]by the continuous integration that we have
0:25:32.809,0:25:37.610
on our decision Autistici/Inventati. That[br]is builded in a... we have a Docker
0:25:37.610,0:25:45.309
registry and build the Docker image. And[br]so, FLOAT deployed, running our Ansible
0:25:45.309,0:25:53.810
playbook, deploy the different Docker[br]image on the different machine. So, why
0:25:53.810,0:26:00.059
it's good for us? Because we can[br]versioning all the stuff, so we can also
0:26:00.059,0:26:06.940
do mistake but go back and we can deploy[br]on virtual machine, where we can do
0:26:06.940,0:26:25.909
testing and on the real production on the[br]real machine. This is, I thinks why we
0:26:25.909,0:26:32.690
thinks to adopt. Also, because we want not[br]use, we don't want to stay on a virtual
0:26:32.690,0:26:40.400
machine, we would like move on bare metal[br]and we trust to the group, these
0:26:40.400,0:26:50.460
orchestrator is only 1000 line of Python[br]code, and is written like, is Ansibl
0:26:50.460,0:26:59.029
plugin and we can use the double factor[br]authentication, universal two factor
0:26:59.029,0:27:04.120
authentication. That is good for us,[br]because if you have for the stuff that
0:27:04.120,0:27:10.789
your security is base, could be based on[br]how to do a token. So you have a security
0:27:10.789,0:27:18.950
in something of local, that you have to[br]keep. And in some integrated monitoring,
0:27:18.950,0:27:26.960
like Prometeus and Graphader (???). And[br]this feature, or non- feature is, that the
0:27:26.960,0:27:32.300
services go down when something fail. And[br]this is, for us, this is important. We are
0:27:32.300,0:27:38.230
not a company that have to stay 24 hour[br]up. We are a community that they want to
0:27:38.230,0:27:45.049
know, if something goes wrong with your[br]machine and if someone put physically the
0:27:45.049,0:27:56.590
hands on your machine. Yeah, this is, now[br]is the time of the question. Slow please,
0:27:56.590,0:28:02.779
the question, because I don't speak really[br]well English Andrea laughs you see now?
0:28:02.779,0:28:08.820
But also I don't understand really well.[br]And these is the long list of thanks and
0:28:08.820,0:28:15.289
all the community that I speak about.[br]There is also EclecticTechCarnival, that
0:28:15.289,0:28:23.580
is a feminist community, that pushed a lot[br]to me to arrive here to explain this stuff
0:28:23.580,0:28:30.559
to you. And thanks.
0:28:30.559,0:28:36.220
applause
0:28:36.220,0:28:41.140
Herald Angel: Thank you very much for the[br]great talk. It was very, very interesting.
0:28:41.140,0:28:45.149
We still have 10 minutes for questions and[br]answers. If you have questions, just move
0:28:45.149,0:28:50.740
to the three microphones in the room, and[br]then we're going to have you ask your
0:28:50.740,0:28:54.610
questions. So, we start with microphone[br]number two. Very slow in English, please.
0:28:54.610,0:28:58.799
Andrea: Yes.[br]Mic 2: Thank you very much for the talk. I
0:28:58.799,0:29:03.970
have a question. The customers, do they[br]pay in advance for a year or do they pay
0:29:03.970,0:29:11.760
at the market?[br]Andrea: Ok. In Bologna, in Campi Aperti
0:29:11.760,0:29:19.289
experience is direct sell in the market.[br]So the co-producer, the consumer pay at
0:29:19.289,0:29:25.570
the moment. But we know that that is not[br]the perfect model and there are other
0:29:25.570,0:29:30.760
other experiment the city, in which Campi[br]Aperti and this group of farmer is
0:29:30.760,0:29:43.000
involved. And so, there is also Arvaia,[br]that is another group that the customer
0:29:43.000,0:29:52.370
pay in advance. And have a place, and also[br]work in fields, and take boxes every week.
0:29:52.370,0:30:03.210
And there is also another project, that is[br]Camilla and is based on... you are
0:30:03.210,0:30:13.309
associated and you have to work three[br]hours every month in a market. And there
0:30:13.309,0:30:18.909
is this market open for all the[br]association, all the people associated to
0:30:18.909,0:30:26.320
these. So, it is a city that is[br]experimented. But yes, for Campi Aperti,
0:30:26.320,0:30:29.720
you not pay in advance it. Only for, in[br]other projects.
0:30:29.720,0:30:34.409
Mic2: Is it okay if I ask something else?[br]Herald Angel: If it's... Well, I would
0:30:34.409,0:30:37.399
first take microphone number three. But if[br]you just stay there, I feel like there
0:30:37.399,0:30:40.919
would be still time for another question.[br]So, microphone number three, please.
0:30:40.919,0:30:48.410
Mic3: Yes. I have a question about[br]consensus. You mentioned that some level
0:30:48.410,0:30:54.080
of disagreement is not only acceptable,[br]but maybe good, because if everyone
0:30:54.080,0:31:00.500
agrees, then there is no discussion,[br]development and less trust. But what level
0:31:00.500,0:31:05.741
of disagreement is acceptable? Have you[br]tried different models, like how you
0:31:05.741,0:31:13.139
achieve this consensus?[br]Andrea: Yeah, we think that disagreement
0:31:13.139,0:31:21.950
is important to not hide problems. So[br]also, we put attention to not to say at
0:31:21.950,0:31:29.330
the end of a conversation we are all[br]agree, but for example, if someone of more
0:31:29.330,0:31:40.100
doubt and we have a formal way of a[br]consensus. So, to be sure that we are all
0:31:40.100,0:31:47.779
agree, we do an orientation, we call it,[br]and that means that you can divide the
0:31:47.779,0:32:01.940
group in three position. Active consent,[br]consensus with doubts but that you think
0:32:01.940,0:32:08.100
that trust is enough, so you are agree,[br]but you will be not active to do this
0:32:08.100,0:32:16.320
stuff. And the active dissensus, that[br]means, that the decision that are you
0:32:16.320,0:32:24.169
taking is against the principle and if you[br]put yourself in that position, you have to
0:32:24.169,0:32:31.639
explain to all the others and you have to[br]do again an orientation. But if you are
0:32:31.639,0:32:39.899
more than 20% of the people that stay in[br]active dissent, you have to re-discuss
0:32:39.899,0:32:46.690
all. So, became block, blocked.[br]Herald Angel: Great, thanks for the
0:32:46.690,0:32:49.970
explanation. That was very interesting.[br]Microphone number two, again.
0:32:49.970,0:32:55.920
Mic2: Thank you for your talk. I wanted to[br]ask whether you have any mechanism to help
0:32:55.920,0:33:01.289
people that want to become farmers,[br]especially to acquire new land.
0:33:01.289,0:33:08.320
Andrea: Hmm. Existed a project and now is[br]not the more active. We are sad, because
0:33:08.320,0:33:16.919
it's not more active and because this[br]project started from people that had these
0:33:16.919,0:33:23.880
need. And after they found the land and[br]say: ok, we have not more the time. And we
0:33:23.880,0:33:36.700
have, we not find again who put the time[br]in that project. And so, there is not a
0:33:36.700,0:33:46.710
real... process in which we help people to[br]became farmer. But, for example, the
0:33:46.710,0:33:52.639
mailing list is open. Everyone that[br]participated to the market can be says can
0:33:52.639,0:33:57.381
join the mailing list and also the[br]assembly and the meeting and so happen a
0:33:57.381,0:34:05.320
lot of time and that the people asked for[br]space in countryside so find information.
0:34:05.320,0:34:12.770
And the other stuff, that really change,[br]make the change is, that a lot of people
0:34:12.770,0:34:20.890
come in Campi Aperti asking us to do[br]transformation, to transform only the food
0:34:20.890,0:34:27.090
and this fact is not acceptable in Campi[br]Aperti. The people are not can only
0:34:27.090,0:34:32.530
transformate the food. We are, we do[br]practice for be independent from
0:34:32.530,0:34:43.690
capitalism for our food. And so you can't[br]ask only to transforme. So they... we ask
0:34:43.690,0:34:52.940
to these people to start a project to grow[br]vegetables and became a farmer. And so...
0:34:52.940,0:35:02.690
or started an active collaboration with a[br]group of farmer yet exist. And so in this
0:35:02.690,0:35:06.869
way started more people to live in[br]countryside.
0:35:06.869,0:35:10.869
Herald Angel: Thank you very much. Next[br]up, we have a question from the Internet.
0:35:10.869,0:35:18.580
Signal Angel: You seem to have gone really[br]far in doing a lot of things yourself. Do
0:35:18.580,0:35:22.819
you still rely on a lot of mainstream[br]technologies? Or did you re-implement
0:35:22.819,0:35:25.680
everything yourself?[br]Andrea: Do you...?
0:35:25.680,0:35:30.910
Herald Angel: Is everything self-made? Or[br]do you still rely on some mainstream
0:35:30.910,0:35:35.760
technologies? Is there something that you[br]use, that is mainstream capitalist, that
0:35:35.760,0:35:39.359
everybody else uses too? Like, you[br]mentioned that you don't use Google or
0:35:39.359,0:35:42.910
Facebook or something like that. Apart[br]from that, is that something mainstream
0:35:42.910,0:35:47.920
that you still use that you rely on?[br]Andrea: Yeah. We are not monopolistic.
0:35:47.920,0:35:59.701
Like, we have the basic communication[br]independant infrastructure, but yes, some
0:35:59.701,0:36:06.520
of them are, we are not the direct running[br]Autistici. We are based that on self-
0:36:06.520,0:36:13.970
managed servers. So, same community that[br]the shared with us a political topic, but
0:36:13.970,0:36:22.180
in that way we are not running the[br]service. We are not running the service.
0:36:22.180,0:36:28.530
To communicate that we use the Website and[br]the mailing list, so we have our
0:36:28.530,0:36:39.130
independent communication, but there is[br]not... we not avoid people of us that use
0:36:39.130,0:36:46.730
also commercial instrument or commercial[br]such network. All this stuff is only that
0:36:46.730,0:36:54.860
we don't trust that too much, that way of[br]communication will be really useful when
0:36:54.860,0:36:59.060
when we need. Or...[br]Herald Angel: All right. Another question
0:36:59.060,0:37:02.970
from microphone number two, please.[br]Mic2: Hi. Thank you for your presentation.
0:37:02.970,0:37:10.119
In your presentation, you mention dossier[br]written by farmers about the other
0:37:10.119,0:37:16.240
farmers, and farmers visiting other[br]farmers. I wanted to ask, these dossier,
0:37:16.240,0:37:22.470
what kind of information do they collect[br]and how are they used? I mean, what's the
0:37:22.470,0:37:27.670
purpose of the dossier and what[br]information do they collect?
0:37:27.670,0:37:40.970
Andrea: Okay. Is the protocol of shared[br]warranty. And so, a person that want enter
0:37:40.970,0:37:51.300
in Campi Aperti from the website, can ask[br]to be visit and starter to fill a form and
0:37:51.300,0:38:02.250
fill dossier, these cards. And after,[br]these cards go to the people, assembly of
0:38:02.250,0:38:10.619
that valley, the valley where this farmer[br]come from and decide when do the visit. So
0:38:10.619,0:38:19.210
this visit is reported to the next[br]assembly. And who did the the visit say,
0:38:19.210,0:38:28.550
what this person wrote in the card is a[br]true or not true. And so, also here you
0:38:28.550,0:38:39.180
have a, you have the weight of trust, of[br]the whole much trust of the words of a
0:38:39.180,0:38:48.560
person that asked to enter, and we[br]store this card, this dossier and we
0:38:48.560,0:38:55.619
print. We print and we put physically on[br]the desk when people do the market.
0:38:55.619,0:39:02.560
Because it's really important that people[br]that come to buy the stuff, know where and
0:39:02.560,0:39:07.819
if we want to go also to visit the[br]producer. And also, because I told you
0:39:07.819,0:39:16.710
that the some of that organic stuff are[br]organic, but not that with the
0:39:16.710,0:39:22.290
certification by the state. And also a lot[br]of the stuff that are transformed are
0:39:22.290,0:39:26.440
inside of the campaign Genuino[br]Clandestino. That means that are
0:39:26.440,0:39:33.480
transformed, handmade, but the out of the[br]law. And so you need that, that people are
0:39:33.480,0:39:37.170
well-informed, who buy this stuff.[br]Mic2: Ok, so...
0:39:37.170,0:39:41.420
Herald Angel: Sorry. Sorry. I'm very[br]sorry. But we don't have time for a back
0:39:41.420,0:39:44.571
up questions. Also, I'm very sorry, I[br]would have loved to have the person who
0:39:44.571,0:39:47.880
ask the first question also have like,[br]asked the last question, but we ran out of
0:39:47.880,0:39:52.360
time. But I'm sure that you can still[br]catch Andrea after the talk and ask
0:39:52.360,0:39:56.010
whatever questions were not answered. So,[br]first of all, thanks for all of your very
0:39:56.010,0:39:59.930
interesting and clever questions and also[br]thank you very much, Andrea, for the great
0:39:59.930,0:40:04.310
presentation. Please give another big,[br]warm round of applause for Andrea. Thank
0:40:04.310,0:40:06.310
you very much.[br]Andrea: Thanks, see you.
0:40:06.310,0:40:07.310
applause
0:40:07.310,0:40:08.310
postroll music
0:40:08.310,0:40:35.000
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