WEBVTT 00:00:06.901 --> 00:00:10.493 [Man] I was the first one to be picked up, so they put me in a cell 00:00:10.493 --> 00:00:11.951 they locked me in there 00:00:11.951 --> 00:00:15.691 in this degrading little outfit. 00:00:15.691 --> 00:00:18.029 [Guard] Hey! I don't want anybody laughing! 00:00:18.029 --> 00:00:20.291 My way is the rule! 00:00:20.291 --> 00:00:22.290 [unintelligible yelling] 00:00:25.189 --> 00:00:27.389 [Man] I've gotta go to a doctor, anything. 00:00:27.829 --> 00:00:30.889 [Man] Jesus Christ, I'm burning up inside dontcha know! 00:00:31.589 --> 00:00:32.589 I want out! 00:00:32.839 --> 00:00:33.839 I want out now! 00:00:35.739 --> 00:00:38.647 [Man] I've never screamed so loud in my life, 00:00:38.647 --> 00:00:40.323 never been so upset in my life. 00:00:40.783 --> 00:00:43.587 It was an experience of being out of control. 00:00:44.738 --> 00:00:46.518 [Man] I just fucking can't take it. 00:00:50.459 --> 00:00:53.706 [Narrator] Stanford University, Northern California. 00:00:53.706 --> 00:00:57.425 One of America's most prestigious academic institutions 00:00:57.425 --> 00:01:01.840 and in 1971, the scene of one of the most notorious experiments 00:01:01.840 --> 00:01:04.100 in the history of psychology. 00:01:08.343 --> 00:01:13.125 [Zimbardo] I was interested in what happens if you put good people in an evil place. 00:01:15.552 --> 00:01:20.992 Does the situation outside of you, the institution, come to control your behavior 00:01:20.992 --> 00:01:23.156 or does the things inside of you, 00:01:23.156 --> 00:01:25.971 your attitudes, your values, your morality 00:01:25.971 --> 00:01:30.625 allow you to rise above a negative environment? 00:01:32.920 --> 00:01:36.291 [Narrator] The negative environment Zimbardo chose to test his ideas, 00:01:36.291 --> 00:01:37.571 was a prison. 00:01:37.571 --> 00:01:41.410 He would convert the basement of the university psychology department 00:01:41.410 --> 00:01:43.840 into a subterranean jail. 00:01:43.840 --> 00:01:47.308 [Zimbardo] We put prison doors on each of three office cells. 00:01:47.308 --> 00:01:50.276 In the cells, it was nothing but three beds 00:01:50.276 --> 00:01:54.171 and there was actually very little room for anything else because they're very small. 00:01:54.171 --> 00:01:58.685 And here we had solitary confinement, which we call "the hole." 00:01:58.685 --> 00:02:02.931 And in the hole was where the prisoners would be put for punishment. 00:02:02.931 --> 00:02:04.593 It was a very very small area. 00:02:04.593 --> 00:02:07.555 When you close the door, it was totally dark. 00:02:14.855 --> 00:02:17.175 All the guards wore military uniforms 00:02:17.175 --> 00:02:20.641 and we had them wear these silver reflecting sunglasses. 00:02:20.641 --> 00:02:23.044 And what it does is, you can't see someone's eyes 00:02:23.044 --> 00:02:26.406 and that loses some the humanness, the humanity. 00:02:27.351 --> 00:02:29.936 In general, we wanted to create a sense of power. 00:02:29.936 --> 00:02:33.835 That the guards as a category, are people who have power over others. 00:02:33.835 --> 00:02:36.320 And in this case, power over the prisoners. 00:02:38.639 --> 00:02:40.337 [Narrator] A decade earlier, 00:02:40.337 --> 00:02:44.557 psychologist Stanley Milgrim had also looked at how we respond to authority. 00:02:45.887 --> 00:02:50.502 In order to understand how people were induced to obey unjust regimes 00:02:50.502 --> 00:02:56.194 and participate in atrocities such as the holocaust, he set up an experiment. 00:02:56.194 --> 00:03:01.162 Volunteers were told they were taking part in scientific research to improve memory. 00:03:01.712 --> 00:03:05.061 [Experimenter] Would you open those and tell me which of you is which please? 00:03:05.061 --> 00:03:06.724 [First man] Teacher. [Second man] Learner. 00:03:08.314 --> 00:03:10.076 [Narrator] Separated by a screen, 00:03:10.076 --> 00:03:13.886 the teacher would ask the learner questions in a word game 00:03:13.886 --> 00:03:17.528 and administer an electric shock when the answer was incorrect. 00:03:17.528 --> 00:03:20.908 He was told to increase the voltage with each wrong answer. 00:03:22.369 --> 00:03:27.846 [Teacher] Cloud, horse, rock, or house? Answer? 00:03:27.846 --> 00:03:29.564 [buzz] [Teacher] Wrong. 00:03:31.354 --> 00:03:35.106 150 volts. Answer: horse. 00:03:35.106 --> 00:03:40.965 [Learner] Ow! That's all! Get me out of here! Get me out of here, please! 00:03:40.965 --> 00:03:43.225 [Experimenter] Continue please. [teacher gesturing, unsure] 00:03:43.225 --> 00:03:44.825 [Learner] I refuse to go on! Let me out! 00:03:44.825 --> 00:03:48.346 [Experimenter] The experiment requires you continue, teacher. Please continue. 00:03:48.346 --> 00:03:52.047 [Narrator] Participants didn't know that the learner was really an actor 00:03:52.047 --> 00:03:54.767 and the so-called shocks, were harmless. 00:03:54.767 --> 00:03:58.656 [Teacher] Now you'll get a shock. 180 volts. 00:03:58.656 --> 00:04:03.596 [Learner] Ow! I can't stand the pain, let me out of here! 00:04:03.596 --> 00:04:06.184 [Teacher] He can't stand the pain, I'm not going to kill that man. 00:04:06.184 --> 00:04:09.184 Who's going to take the responsibility if anything happens to that gentleman? 00:04:09.184 --> 00:04:13.148 [Experimenter] I'm responsible for anything that happens here. Continue please. 00:04:13.148 --> 00:04:18.886 [Teacher] Alright, next one. Slow, walk, dance, truck, music. 00:04:18.886 --> 00:04:23.229 [Narrator] 2/3 of volunteers were prepared to administer potentially fatal electric shock 00:04:23.229 --> 00:04:28.281 when encouraged to do so by what they perceived to be a legitimate authority figure. 00:04:28.281 --> 00:04:31.667 In this case, a man in a white coat. 00:04:31.667 --> 00:04:36.672 [Teacher] 375 volts. I think something's happened to that fellow in there. 00:04:36.672 --> 00:04:39.810 I got no answer, he was hollering at all this voltage. 00:04:39.810 --> 00:04:42.616 Can you check him to see if he's alright please? 00:04:42.616 --> 00:04:44.940 [Narrator] Milgrim's findings horrified America. 00:04:44.940 --> 00:04:48.345 They showed that decent American citizens were as capable of committing acts 00:04:48.345 --> 00:04:49.635 against their conscious 00:04:49.635 --> 00:04:52.248 as the Germans had been under the Nazis. 00:04:53.908 --> 00:04:56.266 Like Milgrim, Zimbardo was interested 00:04:56.266 --> 00:05:00.026 in the power of social situations to overwhelm individuals. 00:05:01.477 --> 00:05:05.191 His experiment would test people's responses to an oppressive regime. 00:05:05.491 --> 00:05:08.197 Would they accept it? Or act against it? 00:05:09.761 --> 00:05:14.297 Zimbardo's experiment was conducted against a backdrop of Civil Rights activism 00:05:14.297 --> 00:05:16.625 and protests against the Vietnam war. 00:05:17.264 --> 00:05:20.050 [Zimbardo] It was a sense of student power, student dominance 00:05:20.050 --> 00:05:23.443 and student rebellion against authority in general. 00:05:24.772 --> 00:05:28.693 [Narrator] It was from the student body Zimbardo selected his participants. 00:05:28.693 --> 00:05:33.499 After passing tests, to screen out anyone with a psychological abnormality, 00:05:33.499 --> 00:05:36.538 they were paid $15 a day. 00:05:36.538 --> 00:05:40.057 Each was randomly assigned the role of guard or prisoner. 00:05:41.077 --> 00:05:43.698 [Man] It was a prison to me, it still is a prison to me. 00:05:43.698 --> 00:05:46.036 I don't look at it as an experiment or a simulation. 00:05:46.036 --> 00:05:50.962 It was just a prison that was run by psychologists instead of run by the state. 00:05:52.050 --> 00:05:56.409 [Ramsay] I was 20, and that September I was going to college. 00:05:56.409 --> 00:06:01.815 And it would be nice to have a summer job, but there sure wasn't a lot of time left. 00:06:01.815 --> 00:06:06.186 And I looked in the want ads and I found this thing which was just going to fit. 00:06:06.186 --> 00:06:08.706 It was just two weeks. 00:06:08.706 --> 00:06:12.801 [Man] You put a uniform on, and are given a job 00:06:12.801 --> 00:06:14.496 to keep these people in line. 00:06:14.496 --> 00:06:17.546 You really become that person once you put on that khaki uniform, 00:06:17.546 --> 00:06:20.931 you put on the glasses, you take the nightstick. 00:06:20.931 --> 00:06:23.636 [Eshleman] I was on summer break from my first year of college 00:06:23.636 --> 00:06:25.446 and I was looking for a job. 00:06:25.976 --> 00:06:28.690 Had to chose between that or making pizzas. 00:06:28.690 --> 00:06:30.591 And that sounded like a lot more fun. 00:06:31.151 --> 00:06:32.868 [Narrator] As well as running the experiment, 00:06:32.868 --> 00:06:36.038 Zimbardo took on the role of prison superintendent. 00:06:36.038 --> 00:06:38.442 He began by briefing the guards. 00:06:38.442 --> 00:06:40.685 [Zimbardo] I said, "We have to maintain law and order. 00:06:40.685 --> 00:06:45.616 "If prisoners escape, the study is over. And you can't use physical violence." 00:06:46.156 --> 00:06:48.143 [Zimbardo] You can create a sense of fear in them. 00:06:48.143 --> 00:06:52.541 You can create a notion that their life is totally in control by us. 00:06:52.541 --> 00:06:54.453 There will be constant surveillance, 00:06:54.453 --> 00:06:57.683 we have total power of the situation and they have none. 00:07:00.677 --> 00:07:03.042 [Narrator] Prisoners were brought to the basement prison, 00:07:03.042 --> 00:07:05.991 blindfolded to confuse them about their whereabouts. 00:07:05.991 --> 00:07:08.809 They were stripped and deloused. 00:07:08.809 --> 00:07:11.137 [Zimbardo] of course the guards started making fun of their genitals 00:07:11.137 --> 00:07:15.452 and humiliating them and really it starts what's known as a degradation process. 00:07:15.452 --> 00:07:21.849 Which not only prisons, but lots of military type outfits use that process. 00:07:26.273 --> 00:07:29.510 [Prisoner ] When I first got there, even though I had to strip, 00:07:29.510 --> 00:07:32.459 and they would call me names, I still didn't feel at all like it was a prison. 00:07:32.459 --> 00:07:34.287 I just looked at it like a job. 00:07:35.321 --> 00:07:39.310 [Eshleman] I recall sort of walking up and down the very short hallway, 00:07:39.310 --> 00:07:42.015 which was the prison hall and looking in on the prisoners. 00:07:42.015 --> 00:07:44.554 And they're basically lounging around on their beds. 00:07:44.554 --> 00:07:47.322 I felt it was like a day in summer camp. 00:07:48.850 --> 00:07:50.275 [Zimbardo] The first day I said, 00:07:50.275 --> 00:07:54.685 "This might be a very long and very boring experiment," 00:07:54.685 --> 00:07:57.502 because it's conceivable nothing will ever happen. 00:07:59.515 --> 00:08:01.554 [Eshleman] I arrived independently at the conclusion 00:08:01.554 --> 00:08:04.054 that this experiment must have been put together 00:08:04.054 --> 00:08:09.280 to prove a point about prisons being a cruel and inhumane place. 00:08:09.280 --> 00:08:15.346 And therefore, I would do my part, to help those results come about. 00:08:15.936 --> 00:08:20.442 I was a confrontational and arrogant 18 year old at the time 00:08:20.442 --> 00:08:24.205 and I said "somebody outta stir things up a bit here." 00:08:25.067 --> 00:08:28.951 [Prisoner] Fuck this experiment and fuck that Zimbardo! 00:08:30.650 --> 00:08:34.933 [Narrator] On the second morning, prisoners decided to stir things up as well. 00:08:36.013 --> 00:08:39.563 The guards found some of them had used their beds to barricade their cell. 00:08:40.173 --> 00:08:43.955 Prisoner 8612 was one of the ring leaders of the rebellion. 00:08:43.955 --> 00:08:48.913 [yelling] ...Fucking simulation! It's a fucking simulated experiment! 00:08:48.913 --> 00:08:53.053 [Indistinct yelling] 00:08:54.443 --> 00:08:56.123 [Zimbardo] Initially I was stunned. 00:08:56.123 --> 00:08:58.183 I didn't expect a rebellion because not much happened. 00:08:58.183 --> 00:09:00.660 And it wasn't clear what they were rebelling against, 00:09:00.660 --> 00:09:02.852 but they were rebelling against the status, 00:09:02.852 --> 00:09:04.494 rebelling against being anonymous, 00:09:04.494 --> 00:09:09.310 against having to follow orders from these other students. 00:09:10.144 --> 00:09:12.418 [Narrator] As punishment for the rebellion, 00:09:12.418 --> 00:09:17.442 prisoner 8612 was put in the hole and the guards turned on the other prisoners. 00:09:18.536 --> 00:09:21.866 [Zimbardo] The guards felt that they now had to up the ante of being tough. 00:09:22.336 --> 00:09:27.498 The prisoners made the mistake of beginning to use profanity against the guards 00:09:27.498 --> 00:09:29.592 in a very personalized way. 00:09:29.592 --> 00:09:34.059 So not against the guards, but now "you little punk" "you big shit" and stuff. 00:09:34.059 --> 00:09:36.124 And the guards got furious. 00:09:37.186 --> 00:09:40.652 [Guard] Everybody up! Everybody get up! 00:09:40.652 --> 00:09:43.342 Well gentlemen, here it is time for count. 00:09:43.342 --> 00:09:46.445 [Narrator] Prisoners were repeatedly woken in the middle of the night. 00:09:46.445 --> 00:09:49.388 The guards made them do menial physical tasks 00:09:49.388 --> 00:09:52.053 and clean out toilets with their bare hands. 00:09:52.053 --> 00:09:56.431 [Eshleman] We made it a point not to give them any sense of comfort 00:09:56.431 --> 00:09:58.145 or what to expect. 00:09:58.145 --> 00:09:59.915 Anything could happen to them at any time, 00:09:59.915 --> 00:10:03.861 including being rousted from their sleep at any hour. 00:10:03.861 --> 00:10:08.174 And forced to stand up in a line and have me hurl insults at them 00:10:08.174 --> 00:10:11.861 and make them do exercises. 00:10:11.861 --> 00:10:15.948 When you interrupt people's sleep, they tend to become a little disoriented. 00:10:15.948 --> 00:10:20.116 And since there was no daylight in the prison, they had no idea whether it was night or day. 00:10:22.415 --> 00:10:25.379 I think that I was the instigator of this 00:10:25.379 --> 00:10:28.851 whole schedule of harrassment. 00:10:30.221 --> 00:10:34.347 [Narrator] The harassment of the guards took it's toll on rebellion leader 8612. 00:10:34.347 --> 00:10:38.115 He told Zimbardo he wanted to leave the experiment. 00:10:38.115 --> 00:10:43.179 Zimbardo responded not as a psychologist but as a prison superintendent. 00:10:43.179 --> 00:10:46.907 [Zimbardo] I said, "Well, I can see to it the guards don't hassle you personally 00:10:46.907 --> 00:10:50.869 and in return all I would like is some information from time to time 00:10:50.869 --> 00:10:52.779 about what the prisoners are doing." 00:10:52.779 --> 00:10:56.548 So essentially I'm saying "I'd like you to be a snitch, an informant." 00:10:56.548 --> 00:11:00.274 And I said "think it over and if you still want to leave, fine." 00:11:00.274 --> 00:11:04.920 [Narrator] Confused, prisoner 8612 returned to his cell 00:11:04.920 --> 00:11:07.540 and told the other prisoners that no one could leave. 00:11:12.925 --> 00:11:16.968 [Zimbardo] He believed we wouldn't let him go, although we never said that. 00:11:16.968 --> 00:11:19.451 But the fact that he was the ring leader of the rebellion 00:11:19.451 --> 00:11:22.576 and he told the other prisoners "they won't let you leave," 00:11:22.576 --> 00:11:26.770 that really transformed the experiment into a prison. 00:11:26.770 --> 00:11:31.839 [Prisoner] I was told I couldn't quit. And at that point, I just felt totally hopeless. 00:11:31.839 --> 00:11:33.966 More hopeless than I had ever felt before. 00:11:35.995 --> 00:11:37.730 [Narrator] Soon after returning to his cell, 00:11:37.730 --> 00:11:41.740 prisoner 8612 started showing signs of severe distress. 00:11:42.220 --> 00:11:46.073 [Prisoner 8612] Goddammit. Fucked up! You don't know, you don't know. 00:11:46.073 --> 00:11:50.409 I mean, God, I mean Jesus Christ, I'm burning up inside, don't you know? 00:11:54.212 --> 00:11:58.700 [Zimbardo] He came up with a plan that if he acted crazy, 00:11:58.700 --> 00:12:00.400 we would have to release him. 00:12:02.140 --> 00:12:05.101 [Prisoner 8612] I feel fucked up inside, I feel really fucked up inside. You don't know. 00:12:05.101 --> 00:12:09.865 I gotta go to a doctor, anything. I can't stay here, I'm fucked up. 00:12:09.865 --> 00:12:13.339 I don't know how to explain it, I'm fucked up inside! And I want out! 00:12:16.151 --> 00:12:19.717 [Zimbardo] It starts with make-believe and then he's doing it and cursing and screaming. 00:12:19.717 --> 00:12:24.070 You know, whatever that little boundary is, he moved across, 00:12:24.070 --> 00:12:29.254 not that he became really crazy, but he became excessively disturbed. 00:12:29.254 --> 00:12:32.088 So much so, we immediately said, "We have to release him." 00:12:33.081 --> 00:12:35.630 [Korpi--prisoner 8612] As an experience, it was unique. 00:12:35.630 --> 00:12:37.960 I've never screamed so loud in my life. 00:12:38.700 --> 00:12:41.374 Never been so upset in my life, 00:12:41.374 --> 00:12:44.575 and it was an experience of being out of control. 00:12:46.890 --> 00:12:49.446 [Narrator] The boundary between reality and make-believe 00:12:49.446 --> 00:12:51.810 was to become blurred even for Zimbardo. 00:12:52.330 --> 00:12:56.646 A rumor circulated that released prisoner 8612 would return with friends 00:12:56.646 --> 00:12:59.316 to liberate the remaining prisoners. 00:12:59.316 --> 00:13:01.732 [Zimbardo] I quickly convinced myself that 00:13:01.732 --> 00:13:08.330 my most important function was not to allow this prison liberation to occur. 00:13:08.330 --> 00:13:10.920 And what could I do to keep my prison going? 00:13:10.920 --> 00:13:12.408 Not the experiment going. 00:13:13.546 --> 00:13:15.143 [Narrator] The prison was dismantled 00:13:15.143 --> 00:13:17.783 and the prisoners were moved another part of the building. 00:13:19.243 --> 00:13:23.523 Zimbardo waited in the empty corridor preparing to tell 8612 00:13:23.523 --> 00:13:25.511 and his friends that the study was over. 00:13:25.511 --> 00:13:26.749 When a colleague appeared 00:13:26.749 --> 00:13:30.349 and began asking questions about the scientific basis of the research. 00:13:30.919 --> 00:13:33.361 [Zimbardo] I'm trying to get rid of him and then he says, 00:13:33.361 --> 00:13:35.351 "What's the independent variable?" 00:13:35.721 --> 00:13:41.869 I got furious, because he doesn't understand that there's a riot about to take place, 00:13:41.869 --> 00:13:44.038 that this prison is about to erupt. 00:13:44.038 --> 00:13:49.979 I had totally lost this whole other identity of scientist, researcher, psychologist. 00:13:51.136 --> 00:13:54.107 [Narrator] The rumored jailbreak never materialized. 00:13:54.107 --> 00:13:56.511 The guards had dismantled the prison for nothing 00:13:56.511 --> 00:13:58.355 and had to rebuild it. 00:13:58.355 --> 00:14:00.657 They took their frustration out on the prisoners. 00:14:02.492 --> 00:14:05.282 [Zimbardo] They escalated again the level of control. 00:14:05.282 --> 00:14:08.606 the level of dominance, the level of humiliating behavior. 00:14:13.783 --> 00:14:18.245 [Narrator] 819 was the next prisoner to rebel against the harassment of the guards. 00:14:18.245 --> 00:14:22.465 He barricaded himself in his cell and refused to take part in the count. 00:14:22.465 --> 00:14:24.346 [Guard] You're not only not getting cigarettes, 00:14:24.346 --> 00:14:26.226 but for as long as this cell's blockaded 00:14:26.226 --> 00:14:28.356 you're going to be in solitary when you get out. 00:14:28.356 --> 00:14:32.645 [Narrator] For 819's disobedience, the guards made his cellmates do mindless work. 00:14:32.645 --> 00:14:36.991 This undermined any vestige of solidarity amongst the prisoners 00:14:36.991 --> 00:14:39.162 who now chose to accept the tyranny of the guards 00:14:39.162 --> 00:14:41.412 rather than risk further harassment. 00:14:42.422 --> 00:14:45.446 [Eshleman] That was one of the surprising things to me was that 00:14:45.446 --> 00:14:49.607 there was so little that the prisoners did to support one another 00:14:49.607 --> 00:14:53.967 after we started our campaign of divide and conquer. 00:14:56.117 --> 00:14:58.588 [Narrator] Isolated and distraught, prisoner 819 00:14:58.588 --> 00:15:00.904 told Zimbardo he wanted to leave. 00:15:01.344 --> 00:15:05.377 [Zimbardo] While I'm interviewing 819, and saying, 00:15:05.377 --> 00:15:08.687 "Okay, it's all over, thank you for your participation. 00:15:08.687 --> 00:15:13.293 I'll give you money for the whole two weeks, even though you're leaving early." 00:15:13.293 --> 00:15:17.693 He hears the prisoners shouting: "819 did a bad thing." 00:15:17.934 --> 00:15:23.334 [Prisoners] Prisoner 819 did a bad thing. Prisoner 819 did a bad thing. 00:15:25.440 --> 00:15:27.038 And he said, "I can't leave." And he's crying. 00:15:27.038 --> 00:15:28.026 And he said, "I can't leave." 00:15:28.026 --> 00:15:29.041 And I said, "What do you mean you can't leave?" 00:15:29.041 --> 00:15:32.626 And he said, "No, I have to go back because I don't want them to think I'm a bad prisoner." 00:15:32.626 --> 00:15:37.229 And that's when I really flipped out that in such a short time 00:15:37.229 --> 00:15:42.888 a college student's thinking could become so distorted. 00:15:42.888 --> 00:15:44.891 I said, "You're not a bad prisoner. 00:15:44.891 --> 00:15:46.931 "You're not a prisoner. And this is not a prison." 00:15:46.931 --> 00:15:48.044 And it was just this thing where 00:15:48.044 --> 00:15:51.262 he opened up his eyes, really like a cloud being lifted. 00:15:52.108 --> 00:15:57.553 [Narrator] Seeing things clearly, prisoner 819 reverted to his original request and was released. 00:15:57.553 --> 00:16:03.029 To replace him, the experimenters called in one of their reserves from the standby list. 00:16:04.414 --> 00:16:08.453 [Ramsay] I got a phone call saying, "Are you still available as an alternate?" 00:16:08.453 --> 00:16:11.181 Kind of a cheery, female secretary voice. 00:16:11.181 --> 00:16:13.321 And I said, "Yes, sure." 00:16:13.321 --> 00:16:16.452 And so she said, "Could you start this afternoon?" 00:16:16.452 --> 00:16:18.717 And I said, "Yes, sure." 00:16:18.717 --> 00:16:21.818 And my role in the experiment really began. 00:16:26.859 --> 00:16:32.308 I was blindfolded and then stripped and supposedly deloused. 00:16:34.543 --> 00:16:38.579 [Zimbardo] He came into a madhouse, full blown. 00:16:38.579 --> 00:16:42.660 All of us, had gradually acclimated to the increasing level of aggression, 00:16:42.660 --> 00:16:45.162 increasing powerlessness of the prisoners, 00:16:45.162 --> 00:16:48.416 increasing dominance of the guards. 00:16:48.416 --> 00:16:51.942 And he comes in and says, "What's happening here?" to the other prisoners. 00:16:51.942 --> 00:16:53.400 And they said "Yeah, you better not make trouble, 00:16:53.400 --> 00:16:55.920 it's really terrible, it's a real prison." 00:16:55.920 --> 00:17:00.561 And he says, "I'm out of here, I don't want this." 00:17:00.568 --> 00:17:01.835 And they said "No, you can't leave. 00:17:01.835 --> 00:17:04.135 Once you're here, you're stuck. This is a real prison." 00:17:04.135 --> 00:17:07.859 [Guard] 416 put your hands in the air or why don't you play Frankenstein? 00:17:07.859 --> 00:17:11.572 293 you can be the bride of Frankenstein, you stand here. 00:17:11.572 --> 00:17:15.845 [Narrator] Prisoner 416 was soon subjected to the harassment of Dave Eshleman, 00:17:15.845 --> 00:17:19.481 nicknamed John Wayne because of his macho attitude. 00:17:19.481 --> 00:17:23.761 [Guard] 416 I want you to walk over here like Frankenstein and say that you love 2093. 00:17:25.951 --> 00:17:27.714 That ain't a Frankenstein walk! 00:17:27.714 --> 00:17:29.848 [Eshleman] I made the decision that I would be 00:17:29.848 --> 00:17:34.639 as intimidating, as cold, as cruel as possible. 00:17:34.639 --> 00:17:38.359 [Prisoner 416] I love you 2093. [Guard] Get up close! Get up close! 00:17:38.359 --> 00:17:42.339 [Prisoner 416] I love you 2093. I love you 2093. 00:17:42.339 --> 00:17:46.390 [Guard] You get down here and do ten pushups! 00:17:47.869 --> 00:17:50.365 [Eshleman] I had just watched a movie called Cool Hand Luke 00:17:50.365 --> 00:17:55.601 and the mean intimidating southern prison warden character in that film 00:17:55.601 --> 00:17:59.324 really was my inspiration for the role that I created for myself. 00:18:09.728 --> 00:18:12.244 [Zimbardo] He was creative in his evil. 00:18:12.244 --> 00:18:18.432 He would think of very ingenious ways to degrade, to demean the prisoners. 00:18:18.432 --> 00:18:23.403 [Guard] What if I told you to get down on that floor and fuck the floor 00:18:23.403 --> 00:18:25.262 what would you do then? 00:18:26.155 --> 00:18:29.696 [Zimbardo] One of the best guards, was also on that shift 00:18:29.696 --> 00:18:33.684 and instead of confronting the bad guard, the sadistic guard 00:18:33.684 --> 00:18:36.298 essentially, because he didn't want to see what was happening, 00:18:36.298 --> 00:18:40.279 he became the gofer, he went out to get the food and things of this kind. 00:18:40.279 --> 00:18:46.300 And that left the John Wayne guard and the other guard on that shift to be dominant. 00:18:46.300 --> 00:18:49.065 [One of the guards] We were continually called upon to act 00:18:49.065 --> 00:18:53.203 in a way that is contrary to what I really feel inside. 00:18:53.203 --> 00:18:55.355 Just continually giving out shit. 00:18:55.355 --> 00:18:59.018 It's really just one of the most oppressive things you can do. 00:19:01.178 --> 00:19:05.578 [Guard] 416, while they do pushups, you sing Amazing Grace. 00:19:05.578 --> 00:19:08.296 Ready? Down. 00:19:08.296 --> 00:19:14.098 [prisoner singing] 00:19:14.098 --> 00:19:15.767 [Guard] Keep going. 00:19:15.767 --> 00:19:19.835 [Narrator] The madness of the experiment started to affect 416. 00:19:19.835 --> 00:19:23.455 [prisoner singing] 00:19:23.455 --> 00:19:24.908 [Guard] Keep going! 00:19:24.908 --> 00:19:30.394 >>[Prisoner 416] I began feeling like, I was losing my identity, until I wasn't Clay. 00:19:30.394 --> 00:19:32.034 I was 416. 00:19:32.034 --> 00:19:35.574 I was really my number and 416 was going to decide what to do. 00:19:37.256 --> 00:19:42.015 [Narrator] Prisoner 416 decided to go on a hunger strike. 00:19:42.448 --> 00:19:45.139 [Ramsay] They were pushing my limits, 00:19:45.139 --> 00:19:47.424 but here was the thing that I could do, 00:19:47.424 --> 00:19:50.046 that could push their limits. 00:19:53.024 --> 00:19:55.399 After I had missed a couple meals, 00:19:55.399 --> 00:19:59.292 I saw this was not a matter of indifference to the guards. 00:19:59.292 --> 00:20:02.024 I was making headway, they were upset. 00:20:04.639 --> 00:20:08.622 [Eshleman] I thought, "How dare this newcomer come in and try to change 00:20:08.622 --> 00:20:12.055 everything that we had worked for the first three days to set up. 00:20:12.055 --> 00:20:14.586 And by God, he's going to suffer for that." 00:20:16.306 --> 00:20:19.660 [Narrator] Frustrated by his continued defiance, 00:20:19.660 --> 00:20:22.600 John Wayne threw prisoner 416 into the hole. 00:20:22.600 --> 00:20:25.953 After punishing the other prisoners, for his disobedience, 00:20:25.953 --> 00:20:29.889 John Wayne encouraged them to vent their anger at 416 directly. 00:20:29.889 --> 00:20:31.329 [Prisoner] Thank you, 416. [bangs on door] 00:20:32.807 --> 00:20:36.754 [Guard] Ok, 209. [Prisoner] Thank you, 416. 00:20:36.754 --> 00:20:40.535 [Eshleman] We would use our nightsticks to bang on the door and we would kick the door 00:20:40.535 --> 00:20:46.462 so hard it must've shaken him very seriously inside. 00:20:46.462 --> 00:20:48.025 Scared the life out of him. 00:20:49.335 --> 00:20:52.548 [Ramsay] He yelled at me, and threatened me and actually sort of 00:20:52.548 --> 00:20:58.409 smashed a sausage into my face to try to get me to open up. 00:20:58.409 --> 00:21:02.812 But I didn't have any intention of eating until I was out. 00:21:04.590 --> 00:21:07.750 [Zimbardo] 416 should've been, at some level, a hero 00:21:07.750 --> 00:21:11.413 'cause he's willing to oppose the authority of the system. 00:21:11.413 --> 00:21:15.566 In fact, the prisoners accept the guards definition of him as a troublemaker. 00:21:16.235 --> 00:21:20.243 [Eshleman] I remember some of them saying: "Would you eat goddammit!" 00:21:20.243 --> 00:21:22.705 "We're sick and tired of this." 00:21:22.705 --> 00:21:30.665 And that was proof that there was no solidary, there was no support between the prisoners. 00:21:30.665 --> 00:21:32.956 [Narrator] While 416 was still in the hole, 00:21:32.956 --> 00:21:35.676 John Wayne made a final attempt to break him 00:21:35.676 --> 00:21:38.450 by giving his fellow prisoners a choice. 00:21:38.450 --> 00:21:42.035 They could vote to release him by making small sacrifice. 00:21:42.035 --> 00:21:48.088 [Guard] You can give me your blankets and sleep on the bare mattress 00:21:48.088 --> 00:21:53.351 or you can keep your blankets and 416 will stay in another day. 00:21:54.821 --> 00:21:57.144 What will it be? 00:21:57.144 --> 00:21:58.632 [Prisoners] I'll keep my blankets. 00:21:58.632 --> 00:21:59.952 [Guard] What will it be over here? 00:22:00.414 --> 00:22:01.414 [Prisoners] I'll keep my blankets. 00:22:02.415 --> 00:22:04.335 [Guard] How about 536? 00:22:04.515 --> 00:22:06.575 [Prisoners] I'll give you my blankets Mr. Correctional Officer. 00:22:06.940 --> 00:22:08.370 [Guard] We don't want your blankets 00:22:08.526 --> 00:22:09.344 [Guard] We got 3 in favor of keeping their blankets. 00:22:10.163 --> 00:22:12.283 We got 3 against 1. 00:22:12.283 --> 00:22:13.403 Keep your blankets. 00:22:13.403 --> 00:22:18.520 416 you're going to be in there for a while, so just get used to it. 00:22:18.520 --> 00:22:21.472 [Eshleman] The study showed that power corrupts 00:22:21.472 --> 00:22:27.485 and how difficult it is for people who are the victims of abuse to stand up and defend themselves. 00:22:27.485 --> 00:22:33.079 Why doesn't anybody who is being abused by a spouse or something like that 00:22:33.079 --> 00:22:35.216 just say "stop it?" 00:22:35.216 --> 00:22:37.856 And we realize now that it's not as easy as it sounds. 00:22:41.217 --> 00:22:45.618 [Narrator] By the end of the 5th day, 4 prisoners had broken down and been released. 00:22:45.618 --> 00:22:47.929 416 was on the second day of his hunger strike 00:22:47.929 --> 00:22:50.989 and the experiment still had another 9 days to run. 00:22:53.571 --> 00:22:57.583 At this point, a fellow psychologist visited Zimbardo's basement prison 00:22:57.591 --> 00:23:01.417 and would witness the brutality of the experiment first hand. 00:23:02.233 --> 00:23:05.383 [Zimbardo] The guards had lined up the prisoners to go to the toilet. 00:23:05.383 --> 00:23:07.726 They had bags over their heads, chains on their feet, 00:23:07.726 --> 00:23:09.622 and were marching by and I looked up. 00:23:09.622 --> 00:23:12.926 And I saw this circus, this parade, 00:23:12.926 --> 00:23:14.901 and I said, "Hey Chris, look at that." 00:23:15.475 --> 00:23:18.547 [Christina Maslach] I looked up, and I began to feel sick to my stomach. 00:23:18.547 --> 00:23:22.286 I had this just... chilling, sickening feeling 00:23:22.286 --> 00:23:25.367 of watching this and you know, I just turned away. 00:23:25.918 --> 00:23:29.324 And I just let loose in this emotional tyranny. 00:23:29.324 --> 00:23:30.605 I just lost it. 00:23:30.605 --> 00:23:33.703 I was angry, scared, I was in tears. 00:23:33.703 --> 00:23:35.790 [Zimbardo] And I'm furious, 00:23:35.790 --> 00:23:37.584 saying you know, we had a big argument. 00:23:37.584 --> 00:23:39.019 You're supposed to be a psychologist. 00:23:39.019 --> 00:23:42.757 This is interesting dynamic behavior and I'm going through this whole thing 00:23:42.757 --> 00:23:44.651 the power of the situation. 00:23:44.651 --> 00:23:48.416 And she says "No, no, it's that young boys are suffering 00:23:48.416 --> 00:23:51.823 and you're responsible. You're letting it happen." 00:23:51.823 --> 00:23:54.882 I said "Oh my god, of course you're right." 00:23:56.129 --> 00:23:59.417 [Narrator] The next day, Zimbardo ended the experiment. 00:24:01.330 --> 00:24:06.839 Studies like his stimulated heated debate about the ethics of using human subjects. 00:24:06.839 --> 00:24:10.769 [Zimbardo] Really young men suffered verbally, physically. 00:24:10.769 --> 00:24:13.465 Prisoners felt shame in their role. 00:24:13.465 --> 00:24:15.365 Guards felt guilt. 00:24:15.365 --> 00:24:17.359 So in that sense, it's unethical. 00:24:17.359 --> 00:24:22.096 That is, nobody has the right, the power, the privilege to do that to other people. 00:24:22.900 --> 00:24:26.290 [Narrator] In the wake of experiments like Zimbardo's and Milgrim's 00:24:26.290 --> 00:24:31.665 ethical guidelines changed, introducing greater safeguards to protect participants. 00:24:32.415 --> 00:24:36.218 In the Standford experiment, Zimbardo might have sped his volunteers distress 00:24:36.218 --> 00:24:39.781 had he not taken on a dual role in the study. 00:24:39.781 --> 00:24:41.731 [Zimbardo] If I was going to be the prison superintendent, 00:24:41.731 --> 00:24:45.416 I should have had a colleague who was overseeing the experiment. 00:24:45.416 --> 00:24:50.623 Who was in a position to stop it at any point. 00:24:50.623 --> 00:24:52.619 Or I should've been the principal investigator 00:24:52.619 --> 00:24:55.903 and get somebody who was going to be the prison superintendent. 00:24:55.903 --> 00:24:58.571 I realized that was a big mistake, to play both those roles. 00:24:58.571 --> 00:25:00.436 And by shifting back and forth. 00:25:03.393 --> 00:25:06.534 [Narrator] After the experiment, Zimbardo brought all the participants together 00:25:06.534 --> 00:25:08.851 to talk about their experiences. 00:25:09.371 --> 00:25:11.794 John Wayne would now come face to face 00:25:11.794 --> 00:25:14.214 with the hunger striker that he had tormented. 00:25:14.914 --> 00:25:15.873 [Eshleman] I was a little worried. 00:25:15.873 --> 00:25:19.424 I said "Oh my god, he's really gonna come down on me hard now." 00:25:19.424 --> 00:25:22.368 Now that we're on equal footing. 00:25:22.368 --> 00:25:23.662 [Ramsay] It harms me. 00:25:23.662 --> 00:25:26.084 [Eshleman] How did it harm you? How does it harm you? 00:25:26.084 --> 00:25:28.924 Just to think ((cross talk)) you know people can be like that? 00:25:28.924 --> 00:25:32.105 [Ramsay] Yeah, it let me in on some knowledge 00:25:32.105 --> 00:25:34.385 that I've never experienced first hand. 00:25:34.385 --> 00:25:37.099 Because I know what you can turn into, 00:25:37.099 --> 00:25:39.425 I know what you're willing to do. 00:25:39.425 --> 00:25:41.887 [Eshleman] When I look back on it now, I behaved appallingly. 00:25:41.887 --> 00:25:45.308 You know, it was just horrid to look at. 00:25:45.308 --> 00:25:48.062 I think I tried to explain to him that at the time, 00:25:48.062 --> 00:25:50.928 what you experience and what you hated so much 00:25:50.928 --> 00:25:54.126 was a role that I was playing, that's not me at all. 00:25:54.126 --> 00:26:00.461 [Ramsay] He was trying to dissociate himself from what he had done. 00:26:00.461 --> 00:26:03.026 That did make me angry. 00:26:03.026 --> 00:26:05.545 Everyone was acting out a part and playing a role: 00:26:05.545 --> 00:26:08.457 prisoners, guards, staff, 00:26:08.457 --> 00:26:11.166 everyone was acting out a part. 00:26:11.166 --> 00:26:15.513 It's when you start contributing to the script, 00:26:16.377 --> 00:26:20.976 that's you and thus it's something you should take responsibility for. 00:26:20.976 --> 00:26:23.776 [Eshleman] Uh, I didn't see where it was really harmful. 00:26:23.776 --> 00:26:27.295 It was degrading and that was part of my particular little experiment 00:26:27.295 --> 00:26:30.164 to see how I could-- 00:26:30.164 --> 00:26:31.843 [Ramsay] Your particular little experiment?! 00:26:31.843 --> 00:26:33.053 Why don't you tell me about that. 00:26:33.053 --> 00:26:35.534 [Eshleman] Yes, I was running... I was running a little experiment of my own. 00:26:35.534 --> 00:26:37.941 [Ramsay] Tell me about your little experiments, I'm curious. 00:26:37.941 --> 00:26:43.062 [Eshleman] I wanted to see what kind of verbal abuse that people can take 00:26:43.062 --> 00:26:47.183 before they start objecting, before they start lashing back. 00:26:47.183 --> 00:26:49.256 [Eshleman] If I have any regret, right now, 00:26:49.256 --> 00:26:52.776 it's that I made that decision, because it would've been interesting 00:26:52.776 --> 00:26:58.964 to see what would have happened had I not decided to force things. 00:27:00.959 --> 00:27:05.645 It could be that I only accelerated them, that the same things would've happened. 00:27:05.645 --> 00:27:08.221 But we'll never know. 00:27:08.221 --> 00:27:11.859 [Narrator] If the extreme nature of Dave Eshleman's behavior tested the prisoners, 00:27:11.859 --> 00:27:14.791 it also presented the other guards with the choice: 00:27:14.791 --> 00:27:16.837 to intervene, or not. 00:27:16.837 --> 00:27:19.248 [Eshleman] It surprised me that no one said anything to stop me. 00:27:19.248 --> 00:27:20.640 They just accepted what I'd say. 00:27:20.640 --> 00:27:22.726 And no one questioned my authority at all. 00:27:22.726 --> 00:27:27.429 And it really shocked me, why didn't people say when I started to get so abusive? 00:27:27.429 --> 00:27:32.658 I started to get so profane, and still people didn't say anything. 00:27:34.357 --> 00:27:38.374 [Zimbardo] There were a few guards who hated to see the prisoners suffer, 00:27:38.374 --> 00:27:41.562 they never did anything that would be demeaning of the prisoners. 00:27:41.562 --> 00:27:45.434 The interesting thing is, none of the good guards ever intervened 00:27:45.434 --> 00:27:50.383 in the behavior of the guards who gradually became more and more sadistical over time. 00:27:51.893 --> 00:27:56.288 We like to think there is this core of human nature that good people can't do bad things. 00:27:56.288 --> 00:28:00.877 And that good people will dominate over bad situations. 00:28:00.877 --> 00:28:03.772 In fact, one way to look at this prison study is that 00:28:03.772 --> 00:28:06.088 we put good people in an evil place 00:28:06.088 --> 00:28:07.718 and we saw who won. 00:28:07.718 --> 00:28:11.936 And the sad message in this case is, the evil place won over the good people. 00:28:14.318 --> 00:28:17.285 [Eshleman] It did show some very interesting and maybe some unpleasant things 00:28:17.285 --> 00:28:20.091 about human behavior. 00:28:20.091 --> 00:28:24.113 It seems like every century, every decade that we go through, 00:28:24.113 --> 00:28:29.893 we're suffering the same kind of atrocities and you need to understand 00:28:29.893 --> 00:28:30.873 why these things happen, 00:28:30.873 --> 00:28:33.769 you need to understand why people behave like this.