1
00:00:06,901 --> 00:00:10,493
[Man] I was the first one to be 
picked up, so they put me in a cell

2
00:00:10,493 --> 00:00:11,951
they locked me in there

3
00:00:11,951 --> 00:00:15,691
in this degrading little outfit.

4
00:00:15,691 --> 00:00:18,029
[Guard] Hey! I don't want anybody laughing!

5
00:00:18,029 --> 00:00:20,291
My way is the rule!

6
00:00:20,291 --> 00:00:22,290
[unintelligible yelling]

7
00:00:25,189 --> 00:00:27,389
[Man] I've gotta go to a doctor, anything.

8
00:00:27,829 --> 00:00:30,889
[Man] Jesus Christ, I'm burning up inside dontcha know!

9
00:00:31,589 --> 00:00:32,589
I want out!

10
00:00:32,839 --> 00:00:33,839
I want out now!

11
00:00:35,739 --> 00:00:38,647
[Man] I've never screamed 
so loud in my life,

12
00:00:38,647 --> 00:00:40,323
never been so upset in my life.

13
00:00:40,783 --> 00:00:43,587
It was an experience of 
being out of control.

14
00:00:44,738 --> 00:00:46,518
[Man] I just fucking can't take it.

15
00:00:50,459 --> 00:00:53,706
[Narrator] Stanford University, 
Northern California.

16
00:00:53,706 --> 00:00:57,425
One of America's most 
prestigious academic institutions

17
00:00:57,425 --> 00:01:01,840
and in 1971, the scene of one 
of the most notorious experiments

18
00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:04,100
in the history of psychology.

19
00:01:08,343 --> 00:01:13,125
[Zimbardo] I was interested in what happens 
if you put good people in an evil place.

20
00:01:15,552 --> 00:01:20,992
Does the situation outside of you, the 
institution, come to control your behavior

21
00:01:20,992 --> 00:01:23,156
or does the things inside of you,

22
00:01:23,156 --> 00:01:25,971
your attitudes, your values, your morality

23
00:01:25,971 --> 00:01:30,625
allow you to rise above 
a negative environment?

24
00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:36,291
[Narrator] The negative environment 
Zimbardo chose to test his ideas,

25
00:01:36,291 --> 00:01:37,571
was a prison.

26
00:01:37,571 --> 00:01:41,410
He would convert the basement of 
the university psychology department

27
00:01:41,410 --> 00:01:43,840
into a subterranean jail.

28
00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:47,308
[Zimbardo] We put prison doors 
on each of three office cells.

29
00:01:47,308 --> 00:01:50,276
In the cells, it was 
nothing but three beds

30
00:01:50,276 --> 00:01:54,171
and there was actually very little room for 
anything else because they're very small.

31
00:01:54,171 --> 00:01:58,685
And here we had solitary confinement,
which we call "the hole."

32
00:01:58,685 --> 00:02:02,931
And in the hole was where the prisoners 
would be put for punishment.

33
00:02:02,931 --> 00:02:04,593
It was a very very small area.

34
00:02:04,593 --> 00:02:07,555
When you close the door, 
it was totally dark.

35
00:02:14,855 --> 00:02:17,175
All the guards wore 
military uniforms

36
00:02:17,175 --> 00:02:20,641
and we had them wear these 
silver reflecting sunglasses.

37
00:02:20,641 --> 00:02:23,044
And what it does is, 
you can't see someone's eyes

38
00:02:23,044 --> 00:02:26,406
and that loses some the 
humanness, the humanity.

39
00:02:27,351 --> 00:02:29,936
In general, we wanted to 
create a sense of power.

40
00:02:29,936 --> 00:02:33,835
That the guards as a category, are 
people who have power over others.

41
00:02:33,835 --> 00:02:36,320
And in this case, 
power over the prisoners.

42
00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:40,337
[Narrator] A decade earlier,

43
00:02:40,337 --> 00:02:44,557
psychologist Stanley Milgrim had also 
looked at how we respond to authority.

44
00:02:45,887 --> 00:02:50,502
In order to understand how people were 
induced to obey unjust regimes

45
00:02:50,502 --> 00:02:56,194
and participate in atrocities such as 
the holocaust, he set up an experiment.

46
00:02:56,194 --> 00:03:01,162
Volunteers were told they were taking part 
in scientific research to improve memory.

47
00:03:01,712 --> 00:03:05,061
[Experimenter] Would you open those and 
tell me which of you is which please?

48
00:03:05,061 --> 00:03:06,724
[First man] Teacher.
[Second man] Learner.

49
00:03:08,314 --> 00:03:10,076
[Narrator] Separated by a screen,

50
00:03:10,076 --> 00:03:13,886
the teacher would ask the
learner questions in a word game

51
00:03:13,886 --> 00:03:17,528
and administer an electric shock 
when the answer was incorrect.

52
00:03:17,528 --> 00:03:20,908
He was told to increase the 
voltage with each wrong answer.

53
00:03:22,369 --> 00:03:27,846
[Teacher] Cloud, horse, 
rock, or house? Answer?

54
00:03:27,846 --> 00:03:29,564
[buzz]
[Teacher] Wrong.

55
00:03:31,354 --> 00:03:35,106
150 volts. 
Answer: horse.

56
00:03:35,106 --> 00:03:40,965
[Learner] Ow! That's all! Get me out 
of here! Get me out of here, please!

57
00:03:40,965 --> 00:03:43,225
[Experimenter] Continue please.
[teacher gesturing, unsure]

58
00:03:43,225 --> 00:03:44,825
[Learner] I refuse to go on! Let me out!

59
00:03:44,825 --> 00:03:48,346
[Experimenter] The experiment requires 
you continue, teacher. Please continue.

60
00:03:48,346 --> 00:03:52,047
[Narrator] Participants didn't know 
that the learner was really an actor

61
00:03:52,047 --> 00:03:54,767
and the so-called shocks, were harmless.

62
00:03:54,767 --> 00:03:58,656
[Teacher] Now you'll 
get a shock. 180 volts.

63
00:03:58,656 --> 00:04:03,596
[Learner] Ow! I can't stand 
the pain, let me out of here!

64
00:04:03,596 --> 00:04:06,184
[Teacher] He can't stand the pain, 
I'm not going to kill that man.

65
00:04:06,184 --> 00:04:09,184
Who's going to take the responsibility if 
anything happens to that gentleman?

66
00:04:09,184 --> 00:04:13,148
[Experimenter] I'm responsible for 
anything that happens here. Continue please.

67
00:04:13,148 --> 00:04:18,886
[Teacher] Alright, next one. 
Slow, walk, dance, truck, music.

68
00:04:18,886 --> 00:04:23,229
[Narrator] 2/3 of volunteers were prepared to 
administer potentially fatal electric shock

69
00:04:23,229 --> 00:04:28,281
when encouraged to do so by what they 
perceived to be a legitimate authority figure.

70
00:04:28,281 --> 00:04:31,667
In this case, a man in a white coat.

71
00:04:31,667 --> 00:04:36,672
[Teacher] 375 volts. I think something's 
happened to that fellow in there.

72
00:04:36,672 --> 00:04:39,810
I got no answer, he was 
hollering at all this voltage.

73
00:04:39,810 --> 00:04:42,616
Can you check him to see 
if he's alright please?

74
00:04:42,616 --> 00:04:44,940
[Narrator] Milgrim's 
findings horrified America.

75
00:04:44,940 --> 00:04:48,345
They showed that decent American citizens 
were as capable of committing acts

76
00:04:48,345 --> 00:04:49,635
against their conscious

77
00:04:49,635 --> 00:04:52,248
as the Germans had been under the Nazis.

78
00:04:53,908 --> 00:04:56,266
Like Milgrim, Zimbardo was interested

79
00:04:56,266 --> 00:05:00,026
in the power of social situations 
to overwhelm individuals.

80
00:05:01,477 --> 00:05:05,191
His experiment would test people's 
responses to an oppressive regime.

81
00:05:05,491 --> 00:05:08,197
Would they accept it? 
Or act against it?

82
00:05:09,761 --> 00:05:14,297
Zimbardo's experiment was conducted 
against a backdrop of Civil Rights activism

83
00:05:14,297 --> 00:05:16,625
and protests against the Vietnam war.

84
00:05:17,264 --> 00:05:20,050
[Zimbardo] It was a sense of 
student power, student dominance

85
00:05:20,050 --> 00:05:23,443
and student rebellion 
against authority in general.

86
00:05:24,772 --> 00:05:28,693
[Narrator] It was from the student body 
Zimbardo selected his participants.

87
00:05:28,693 --> 00:05:33,499
After passing tests, to screen out 
anyone with a psychological abnormality,

88
00:05:33,499 --> 00:05:36,538
they were paid $15 a day.

89
00:05:36,538 --> 00:05:40,057
Each was randomly assigned 
the role of guard or prisoner.

90
00:05:41,077 --> 00:05:43,698
[Man] It was a prison to me, 
it still is a prison to me.

91
00:05:43,698 --> 00:05:46,036
I don't look at it as an 
experiment or a simulation.

92
00:05:46,036 --> 00:05:50,962
It was just a prison that was run by 
psychologists instead of run by the state.

93
00:05:52,050 --> 00:05:56,409
[Ramsay] I was 20, and that 
September I was going to college.

94
00:05:56,409 --> 00:06:01,815
And it would be nice to have a summer job, 
but there sure wasn't a lot of time left.

95
00:06:01,815 --> 00:06:06,186
And I looked in the want ads and I found 
this thing which was just going to fit.

96
00:06:06,186 --> 00:06:08,706
It was just two weeks.

97
00:06:08,706 --> 00:06:12,801
[Man] You put a uniform on, 
and are given a job

98
00:06:12,801 --> 00:06:14,496
to keep these people in line.

99
00:06:14,496 --> 00:06:17,546
You really become that person once 
you put on that khaki uniform,

100
00:06:17,546 --> 00:06:20,931
you put on the glasses, 
you take the nightstick.

101
00:06:20,931 --> 00:06:23,636
[Eshleman] I was on summer 
break from my first year of college

102
00:06:23,636 --> 00:06:25,446
and I was looking for a job.

103
00:06:25,976 --> 00:06:28,690
Had to chose between 
that or making pizzas.

104
00:06:28,690 --> 00:06:30,591
And that sounded like a lot more fun.

105
00:06:31,151 --> 00:06:32,868
[Narrator] As well as running the experiment, 


106
00:06:32,868 --> 00:06:36,038
Zimbardo took on the role 
of prison superintendent.

107
00:06:36,038 --> 00:06:38,442
He began by briefing the guards.

108
00:06:38,442 --> 00:06:40,685
[Zimbardo] I said, "We have to 
maintain law and order.

109
00:06:40,685 --> 00:06:45,616
"If prisoners escape, the study is over.
And you can't use physical violence."

110
00:06:46,156 --> 00:06:48,143
[Zimbardo] You can 
create a sense of fear in them.

111
00:06:48,143 --> 00:06:52,541
You can create a notion that their 
life is totally in control by us.

112
00:06:52,541 --> 00:06:54,453
There will be constant surveillance,

113
00:06:54,453 --> 00:06:57,683
we have total power of the 
situation and they have none.

114
00:07:00,677 --> 00:07:03,042
[Narrator] Prisoners were 
brought to the basement prison,

115
00:07:03,042 --> 00:07:05,991
blindfolded to confuse them 
about their whereabouts.

116
00:07:05,991 --> 00:07:08,809
They were stripped and deloused.

117
00:07:08,809 --> 00:07:11,137
[Zimbardo] of course the guards 
started making fun of their genitals

118
00:07:11,137 --> 00:07:15,452
and humiliating them and really it starts 
what's known as a degradation process.

119
00:07:15,452 --> 00:07:21,849
Which not only prisons, but lots of 
military type outfits use that process.

120
00:07:26,273 --> 00:07:29,510
[Prisoner ] When I first got there, 
even though I had to strip,

121
00:07:29,510 --> 00:07:32,459
and they would call me names, I still 
didn't feel at all like it was a prison.

122
00:07:32,459 --> 00:07:34,287
I just looked at it like a job.

123
00:07:35,321 --> 00:07:39,310
[Eshleman] I recall sort of walking 
up and down the very short hallway,

124
00:07:39,310 --> 00:07:42,015
which was the prison hall 
and looking in on the prisoners.

125
00:07:42,015 --> 00:07:44,554
And they're basically lounging 
around on their beds.

126
00:07:44,554 --> 00:07:47,322
I felt it was like 
a day in summer camp.

127
00:07:48,850 --> 00:07:50,275
[Zimbardo] The first day I said,

128
00:07:50,275 --> 00:07:54,685
"This might be a very long 
and very boring experiment,"

129
00:07:54,685 --> 00:07:57,502
because it's conceivable 
nothing will ever happen.

130
00:07:59,515 --> 00:08:01,554
[Eshleman] I arrived independently 
at the conclusion

131
00:08:01,554 --> 00:08:04,054
that this experiment must 
have been put together

132
00:08:04,054 --> 00:08:09,280
to prove a point about prisons 
being a cruel and inhumane place.

133
00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:15,346
And therefore, I would do my part, 
to help those results come about.

134
00:08:15,936 --> 00:08:20,442
I was a confrontational and 
arrogant 18 year old at the time

135
00:08:20,442 --> 00:08:24,205
and I said "somebody outta 
stir things up a bit here."

136
00:08:25,067 --> 00:08:28,951
[Prisoner] Fuck this experiment 
and fuck that Zimbardo!

137
00:08:30,650 --> 00:08:34,933
[Narrator] On the second morning, 
prisoners decided to stir things up as well.

138
00:08:36,013 --> 00:08:39,563
The guards found some of them had used 
their beds to barricade their cell.

139
00:08:40,173 --> 00:08:43,955
Prisoner 8612 was one of the 
ring leaders of the rebellion.

140
00:08:43,955 --> 00:08:48,913
[yelling] ...Fucking simulation! It's a fucking simulated experiment!

141
00:08:48,913 --> 00:08:53,053
[Indistinct yelling]

142
00:08:54,443 --> 00:08:56,123
[Zimbardo] Initially I was stunned.

143
00:08:56,123 --> 00:08:58,183
I didn't expect a rebellion 
because not much happened.

144
00:08:58,183 --> 00:09:00,660
And it wasn't clear what 
they were rebelling against,

145
00:09:00,660 --> 00:09:02,852
but they were rebelling against the status,

146
00:09:02,852 --> 00:09:04,494
rebelling against being anonymous,

147
00:09:04,494 --> 00:09:09,310
against having to follow orders 
from these other students.

148
00:09:10,144 --> 00:09:12,418
[Narrator] As punishment for the rebellion,

149
00:09:12,418 --> 00:09:17,442
prisoner 8612 was put in the hole and 
the guards turned on the other prisoners.

150
00:09:18,536 --> 00:09:21,866
[Zimbardo] The guards felt that they 
now had to up the ante of being tough.

151
00:09:22,336 --> 00:09:27,498
The prisoners made the mistake of 
beginning to use profanity against the guards

152
00:09:27,498 --> 00:09:29,592
in a very personalized way.

153
00:09:29,592 --> 00:09:34,059
So not against the guards, but now
"you little punk" "you big shit" and stuff.

154
00:09:34,059 --> 00:09:36,124
And the guards got furious.

155
00:09:37,186 --> 00:09:40,652
[Guard] Everybody up! Everybody get up!

156
00:09:40,652 --> 00:09:43,342
Well gentlemen, here 
it is time for count.

157
00:09:43,342 --> 00:09:46,445
[Narrator] Prisoners were repeatedly 
woken in the middle of the night.

158
00:09:46,445 --> 00:09:49,388
The guards made them 
do menial physical tasks

159
00:09:49,388 --> 00:09:52,053
and clean out toilets 
with their bare hands.

160
00:09:52,053 --> 00:09:56,431
[Eshleman] We made it a point not 
to give them any sense of comfort

161
00:09:56,431 --> 00:09:58,145
or what to expect.

162
00:09:58,145 --> 00:09:59,915
Anything could happen to them at any time,

163
00:09:59,915 --> 00:10:03,861
including being rousted from 
their sleep at any hour.

164
00:10:03,861 --> 00:10:08,174
And forced to stand up in a line 
and have me hurl insults at them

165
00:10:08,174 --> 00:10:11,861
and make them do exercises.

166
00:10:11,861 --> 00:10:15,948
When you interrupt people's sleep, 
they tend to become a little disoriented.

167
00:10:15,948 --> 00:10:20,116
And since there was no daylight in the prison, 
they had no idea whether it was night or day.

168
00:10:22,415 --> 00:10:25,379
I think that I was the instigator of this

169
00:10:25,379 --> 00:10:28,851
whole schedule of harrassment.

170
00:10:30,221 --> 00:10:34,347
[Narrator] The harassment of the guards 
took it's toll on rebellion leader 8612.

171
00:10:34,347 --> 00:10:38,115
He told Zimbardo he wanted 
to leave the experiment.

172
00:10:38,115 --> 00:10:43,179
Zimbardo responded not as a psychologist 
but as a prison superintendent.

173
00:10:43,179 --> 00:10:46,907
[Zimbardo] I said, "Well, I can see to it 
the guards don't hassle you personally

174
00:10:46,907 --> 00:10:50,869
and in return all I would like 
is some information from time to time

175
00:10:50,869 --> 00:10:52,779
about what the prisoners are doing."

176
00:10:52,779 --> 00:10:56,548
So essentially I'm saying "I'd 
like you to be a snitch, an informant."

177
00:10:56,548 --> 00:11:00,274
And I said "think it over and 
if you still want to leave, fine."

178
00:11:00,274 --> 00:11:04,920
[Narrator] Confused, prisoner 
8612 returned to his cell 


179
00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:07,540
and told the other prisoners 
that no one could leave.

180
00:11:12,925 --> 00:11:16,968
[Zimbardo] He believed we wouldn't
let him go, although we never said that.

181
00:11:16,968 --> 00:11:19,451
But the fact that he was the 
ring leader of the rebellion

182
00:11:19,451 --> 00:11:22,576
and he told the other prisoners 
"they won't let you leave,"

183
00:11:22,576 --> 00:11:26,770
that really transformed the 
experiment into a prison.

184
00:11:26,770 --> 00:11:31,839
[Prisoner] I was told I couldn't quit. And 
at that point, I just felt totally hopeless.

185
00:11:31,839 --> 00:11:33,966
More hopeless than I 
had ever felt before.

186
00:11:35,995 --> 00:11:37,730
[Narrator] Soon after returning to his cell,

187
00:11:37,730 --> 00:11:41,740
prisoner 8612 started showing 
signs of severe distress.

188
00:11:42,220 --> 00:11:46,073
[Prisoner 8612] Goddammit. Fucked up! 
You don't know, you don't know.

189
00:11:46,073 --> 00:11:50,409
I mean, God, I mean Jesus Christ, 
I'm burning up inside, don't you know?

190
00:11:54,212 --> 00:11:58,700
[Zimbardo] He came up with a 
plan that if he acted crazy,

191
00:11:58,700 --> 00:12:00,400
we would have to release him.

192
00:12:02,140 --> 00:12:05,101
[Prisoner 8612] I feel fucked up inside, 
I feel really fucked up inside. You don't know.

193
00:12:05,101 --> 00:12:09,865
I gotta go to a doctor, anything. 
I can't stay here, I'm fucked up.

194
00:12:09,865 --> 00:12:13,339
I don't know how to explain it, 
I'm fucked up inside! And I want out!

195
00:12:16,151 --> 00:12:19,717
[Zimbardo] It starts with make-believe and 
then he's doing it and cursing and screaming.

196
00:12:19,717 --> 00:12:24,070
You know, whatever that little 
boundary is, he moved across,

197
00:12:24,070 --> 00:12:29,254
not that he became really crazy, 
but he became excessively disturbed.

198
00:12:29,254 --> 00:12:32,088
So much so, we immediately said,
"We have to release him."

199
00:12:33,081 --> 00:12:35,630
[Korpi--prisoner 8612] As an 
experience, it was unique.

200
00:12:35,630 --> 00:12:37,960
I've never screamed 
so loud in my life.

201
00:12:38,700 --> 00:12:41,374
Never been so upset in my life,

202
00:12:41,374 --> 00:12:44,575
and it was an experience 
of being out of control.

203
00:12:46,890 --> 00:12:49,446
[Narrator] The boundary between 
reality and make-believe

204
00:12:49,446 --> 00:12:51,810
was to become blurred 
even for Zimbardo.

205
00:12:52,330 --> 00:12:56,646
A rumor circulated that released 
prisoner 8612 would return with friends

206
00:12:56,646 --> 00:12:59,316
to liberate the remaining prisoners.

207
00:12:59,316 --> 00:13:01,732
[Zimbardo] I quickly convinced myself that

208
00:13:01,732 --> 00:13:08,330
my most important function was not to 
allow this prison liberation to occur.

209
00:13:08,330 --> 00:13:10,920
And what could I do to keep my prison going?

210
00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:12,408
Not the experiment going.

211
00:13:13,546 --> 00:13:15,143
[Narrator] The prison was dismantled

212
00:13:15,143 --> 00:13:17,783
and the prisoners were moved 
another part of the building.

213
00:13:19,243 --> 00:13:23,523
Zimbardo waited in the empty 
corridor preparing to tell 8612

214
00:13:23,523 --> 00:13:25,511
and his friends that the study was over.

215
00:13:25,511 --> 00:13:26,749
When a colleague appeared

216
00:13:26,749 --> 00:13:30,349
and began asking questions 
about the scientific basis of the research.

217
00:13:30,919 --> 00:13:33,361
[Zimbardo] I'm trying to get 
rid of him and then he says,

218
00:13:33,361 --> 00:13:35,351
"What's the independent variable?"

219
00:13:35,721 --> 00:13:41,869
I got furious, because he doesn't understand 
that there's a riot about to take place,

220
00:13:41,869 --> 00:13:44,038
that this prison is about to erupt.

221
00:13:44,038 --> 00:13:49,979
I had totally lost this whole other identity 
of scientist, researcher, psychologist.

222
00:13:51,136 --> 00:13:54,107
[Narrator] The rumored jailbreak 
never materialized.

223
00:13:54,107 --> 00:13:56,511
The guards had dismantled 
the prison for nothing

224
00:13:56,511 --> 00:13:58,355
and had to rebuild it.

225
00:13:58,355 --> 00:14:00,657
They took their frustration 
out on the prisoners.

226
00:14:02,492 --> 00:14:05,282
[Zimbardo] They escalated 
again the level of control.

227
00:14:05,282 --> 00:14:08,606
the level of dominance,
the level of humiliating behavior.

228
00:14:13,783 --> 00:14:18,245
[Narrator] 819 was the next prisoner to 
rebel against the harassment of the guards.

229
00:14:18,245 --> 00:14:22,465
He barricaded himself in his cell 
and refused to take part in the count.

230
00:14:22,465 --> 00:14:24,346
[Guard] You're not only 
not getting cigarettes,

231
00:14:24,346 --> 00:14:26,226
but for as long as this cell's blockaded 


232
00:14:26,226 --> 00:14:28,356
you're going to be in 
solitary when you get out.

233
00:14:28,356 --> 00:14:32,645
[Narrator] For 819's disobedience, the guards 
made his cellmates do mindless work.

234
00:14:32,645 --> 00:14:36,991
This undermined any vestige of 
solidarity amongst the prisoners

235
00:14:36,991 --> 00:14:39,162
who now chose to accept 
the tyranny of the guards

236
00:14:39,162 --> 00:14:41,412
rather than risk further harassment.

237
00:14:42,422 --> 00:14:45,446
[Eshleman] That was one of 
the surprising things to me was that

238
00:14:45,446 --> 00:14:49,607
there was so little that the 
prisoners did to support one another

239
00:14:49,607 --> 00:14:53,967
after we started our 
campaign of divide and conquer.

240
00:14:56,117 --> 00:14:58,588
[Narrator] Isolated and 
distraught, prisoner 819

241
00:14:58,588 --> 00:15:00,904
told Zimbardo he wanted to leave.

242
00:15:01,344 --> 00:15:05,377
[Zimbardo] While I'm interviewing 
819, and saying, 


243
00:15:05,377 --> 00:15:08,687
"Okay, it's all over, thank you 
for your participation.

244
00:15:08,687 --> 00:15:13,293
I'll give you money for the whole two weeks, 
even though you're leaving early."

245
00:15:13,293 --> 00:15:17,693
He hears the prisoners 
shouting: "819 did a bad thing."

246
00:15:17,934 --> 00:15:23,334
[Prisoners] Prisoner 819 did a bad thing.
Prisoner 819 did a bad thing.

247
00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:27,038
And he said, "I can't leave." 
And he's crying.

248
00:15:27,038 --> 00:15:28,026
And he said, "I can't leave."

249
00:15:28,026 --> 00:15:29,041
And I said, "What do 
you mean you can't leave?"

250
00:15:29,041 --> 00:15:32,626
And he said, "No, I have to go back because 
I don't want them to think I'm a bad prisoner."

251
00:15:32,626 --> 00:15:37,229
And that's when I really flipped 
out that in such a short time

252
00:15:37,229 --> 00:15:42,888
a college student's thinking 
could become so distorted.

253
00:15:42,888 --> 00:15:44,891
I said, "You're not a bad prisoner. 


254
00:15:44,891 --> 00:15:46,931
"You're not a prisoner. 
And this is not a prison."

255
00:15:46,931 --> 00:15:48,044
And it was just this thing where

256
00:15:48,044 --> 00:15:51,262
he opened up his eyes, really 
like a cloud being lifted.

257
00:15:52,108 --> 00:15:57,553
[Narrator] Seeing things clearly, prisoner 819 
reverted to his original request and was released.

258
00:15:57,553 --> 00:16:03,029
To replace him, the experimenters called 
in one of their reserves from the standby list.

259
00:16:04,414 --> 00:16:08,453
[Ramsay] I got a phone call saying, 
"Are you still available as an alternate?"

260
00:16:08,453 --> 00:16:11,181
Kind of a cheery, female secretary voice.

261
00:16:11,181 --> 00:16:13,321
And I said, "Yes, sure."

262
00:16:13,321 --> 00:16:16,452
And so she said, 
"Could you start this afternoon?"

263
00:16:16,452 --> 00:16:18,717
And I said, "Yes, sure."

264
00:16:18,717 --> 00:16:21,818
And my role in the 
experiment really began.

265
00:16:26,859 --> 00:16:32,308
I was blindfolded and then 
stripped and supposedly deloused.

266
00:16:34,543 --> 00:16:38,579
[Zimbardo] He came into 
a madhouse, full blown.

267
00:16:38,579 --> 00:16:42,660
All of us, had gradually acclimated 
to the increasing level of aggression,

268
00:16:42,660 --> 00:16:45,162
increasing powerlessness of the prisoners,

269
00:16:45,162 --> 00:16:48,416
increasing dominance of the guards.

270
00:16:48,416 --> 00:16:51,942
And he comes in and says, "What's 
happening here?" to the other prisoners.

271
00:16:51,942 --> 00:16:53,400
And they said 
"Yeah, you better not make trouble, 


272
00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:55,920
it's really terrible, it's a real prison."

273
00:16:55,920 --> 00:17:00,561
And he says, "I'm out of here, 
I don't want this."

274
00:17:00,568 --> 00:17:01,835
And they said "No, you can't leave.

275
00:17:01,835 --> 00:17:04,135
Once you're here, you're stuck. 
This is a real prison."

276
00:17:04,135 --> 00:17:07,859
[Guard] 416 put your hands in the air 
or why don't you play Frankenstein?

277
00:17:07,859 --> 00:17:11,572
293 you can be the bride of 
Frankenstein, you stand here.

278
00:17:11,572 --> 00:17:15,845
[Narrator] Prisoner 416 was soon subjected 
to the harassment of Dave Eshleman,

279
00:17:15,845 --> 00:17:19,481
nicknamed John Wayne 
because of his macho attitude.

280
00:17:19,481 --> 00:17:23,761
[Guard] 416 I want you to walk over here like 
Frankenstein and say that you love 2093.

281
00:17:25,951 --> 00:17:27,714
That ain't a Frankenstein walk!

282
00:17:27,714 --> 00:17:29,848
[Eshleman] I made the 
decision that I would be

283
00:17:29,848 --> 00:17:34,639
as intimidating, as cold, as cruel as possible.

284
00:17:34,639 --> 00:17:38,359
[Prisoner 416] I love you 2093. 
[Guard] Get up close! Get up close!

285
00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:42,339
[Prisoner 416] I love you 2093.
I love you 2093.

286
00:17:42,339 --> 00:17:46,390
[Guard] You get down 
here and do ten pushups!

287
00:17:47,869 --> 00:17:50,365
[Eshleman] I had just watched 
a movie called Cool Hand Luke

288
00:17:50,365 --> 00:17:55,601
and the mean intimidating southern 
prison warden character in that film

289
00:17:55,601 --> 00:17:59,324
really was my inspiration for the 
role that I created for myself.

290
00:18:09,728 --> 00:18:12,244
[Zimbardo] He was creative in his evil.

291
00:18:12,244 --> 00:18:18,432
He would think of very ingenious ways 
to degrade, to demean the prisoners.

292
00:18:18,432 --> 00:18:23,403
[Guard] What if I told you to get 
down on that floor and fuck the floor

293
00:18:23,403 --> 00:18:25,262
what would you do then?

294
00:18:26,155 --> 00:18:29,696
[Zimbardo] One of the best guards, 
was also on that shift

295
00:18:29,696 --> 00:18:33,684
and instead of confronting the 
bad guard, the sadistic guard

296
00:18:33,684 --> 00:18:36,298
essentially, because he didn't 
want to see what was happening,

297
00:18:36,298 --> 00:18:40,279
he became the gofer, he went out to 
get the food and things of this kind.

298
00:18:40,279 --> 00:18:46,300
And that left the John Wayne guard and the 
other guard on that shift to be dominant.

299
00:18:46,300 --> 00:18:49,065
[One of the guards] We were 
continually called upon to act

300
00:18:49,065 --> 00:18:53,203
in a way that is contrary 
to what I really feel inside.

301
00:18:53,203 --> 00:18:55,355
Just continually giving out shit.

302
00:18:55,355 --> 00:18:59,018
It's really just one of the 
most oppressive things you can do.

303
00:19:01,178 --> 00:19:05,578
[Guard] 416, while they do pushups, 
you sing Amazing Grace.

304
00:19:05,578 --> 00:19:08,296
Ready? Down.

305
00:19:08,296 --> 00:19:14,098
[prisoner singing]

306
00:19:14,098 --> 00:19:15,767
[Guard] Keep going.

307
00:19:15,767 --> 00:19:19,835
[Narrator] The madness of the 
experiment started to affect 416.

308
00:19:19,835 --> 00:19:23,455
[prisoner singing]

309
00:19:23,455 --> 00:19:24,908
[Guard] Keep going!

310
00:19:24,908 --> 00:19:30,394
>>[Prisoner 416] I began feeling like, I was 
losing my identity, until I wasn't Clay.

311
00:19:30,394 --> 00:19:32,034
I was 416.

312
00:19:32,034 --> 00:19:35,574
I was really my number and 416 
was going to decide what to do.

313
00:19:37,256 --> 00:19:42,015
[Narrator] Prisoner 416 decided 
to go on a hunger strike.

314
00:19:42,448 --> 00:19:45,139
[Ramsay] They were pushing my limits,

315
00:19:45,139 --> 00:19:47,424
but here was the thing that I could do,

316
00:19:47,424 --> 00:19:50,046
that could push their limits.

317
00:19:53,024 --> 00:19:55,399
After I had missed a couple meals,

318
00:19:55,399 --> 00:19:59,292
I saw this was not a matter 
of indifference to the guards.

319
00:19:59,292 --> 00:20:02,024
I was making headway, they were upset.

320
00:20:04,639 --> 00:20:08,622
[Eshleman] I thought, "How dare this 
newcomer come in and try to change

321
00:20:08,622 --> 00:20:12,055
everything that we had worked 
for the first three days to set up.

322
00:20:12,055 --> 00:20:14,586
And by God, he's going to suffer for that."

323
00:20:16,306 --> 00:20:19,660
[Narrator] Frustrated by 
his continued defiance, 


324
00:20:19,660 --> 00:20:22,600
John Wayne threw prisoner 416 into the hole.

325
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:25,953
After punishing the other prisoners, 
for his disobedience,

326
00:20:25,953 --> 00:20:29,889
John Wayne encouraged them to 
vent their anger at 416 directly.

327
00:20:29,889 --> 00:20:31,329
[Prisoner] Thank you, 416. 
[bangs on door]

328
00:20:32,807 --> 00:20:36,754
[Guard] Ok, 209.
[Prisoner] Thank you, 416.

329
00:20:36,754 --> 00:20:40,535
[Eshleman] We would use our nightsticks to 
bang on the door and we would kick the door

330
00:20:40,535 --> 00:20:46,462
so hard it must've shaken 
him very seriously inside.

331
00:20:46,462 --> 00:20:48,025
Scared the life out of him.

332
00:20:49,335 --> 00:20:52,548
[Ramsay] He yelled at me, and 
threatened me and actually sort of

333
00:20:52,548 --> 00:20:58,409
smashed a sausage into my face 
to try to get me to open up.

334
00:20:58,409 --> 00:21:02,812
But I didn't have any intention 
of eating until I was out.

335
00:21:04,590 --> 00:21:07,750
[Zimbardo] 416 should've 
been, at some level, a hero

336
00:21:07,750 --> 00:21:11,413
'cause he's willing to oppose 
the authority of the system.

337
00:21:11,413 --> 00:21:15,566
In fact, the prisoners accept the guards 
definition of him as a troublemaker.

338
00:21:16,235 --> 00:21:20,243
[Eshleman] I remember some of them 
saying: "Would you eat goddammit!"

339
00:21:20,243 --> 00:21:22,705
"We're sick and tired of this."

340
00:21:22,705 --> 00:21:30,665
And that was proof that there was no solidary, 
there was no support between the prisoners.

341
00:21:30,665 --> 00:21:32,956
[Narrator] While 416 was still in the hole, 


342
00:21:32,956 --> 00:21:35,676
John Wayne made a final 
attempt to break him

343
00:21:35,676 --> 00:21:38,450
by giving his fellow prisoners a choice.

344
00:21:38,450 --> 00:21:42,035
They could vote to release 
him by making small sacrifice.

345
00:21:42,035 --> 00:21:48,088
[Guard] You can give me your blankets 
and sleep on the bare mattress

346
00:21:48,088 --> 00:21:53,351
or you can keep your blankets 
and 416 will stay in another day.

347
00:21:54,821 --> 00:21:57,144
What will it be?

348
00:21:57,144 --> 00:21:58,632
[Prisoners] I'll keep my blankets.

349
00:21:58,632 --> 00:21:59,952
[Guard] What will it be over here?

350
00:22:00,414 --> 00:22:01,414
[Prisoners] I'll keep my blankets.

351
00:22:02,415 --> 00:22:04,335
[Guard] How about 536?

352
00:22:04,515 --> 00:22:06,575
[Prisoners] I'll give you my blankets 
Mr. Correctional Officer.

353
00:22:06,940 --> 00:22:08,370
[Guard] We don't want your blankets

354
00:22:08,526 --> 00:22:09,344
[Guard] We got 3 in favor of keeping their blankets. 


355
00:22:10,163 --> 00:22:12,283
We got 3 against 1.



356
00:22:12,283 --> 00:22:13,403
Keep your blankets.

357
00:22:13,403 --> 00:22:18,520
416 you're going to be in there for a while,
so just get used to it.

358
00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:21,472
[Eshleman] The study 
showed that power corrupts

359
00:22:21,472 --> 00:22:27,485
and how difficult it is for people who are the 
victims of abuse to stand up and defend themselves.

360
00:22:27,485 --> 00:22:33,079
Why doesn't anybody who is being abused 
by a spouse or something like that

361
00:22:33,079 --> 00:22:35,216
just say "stop it?"

362
00:22:35,216 --> 00:22:37,856
And we realize now that it's 
not as easy as it sounds.

363
00:22:41,217 --> 00:22:45,618
[Narrator] By the end of the 5th day, 4 
prisoners had broken down and been released.

364
00:22:45,618 --> 00:22:47,929
416 was on the second 
day of his hunger strike 


365
00:22:47,929 --> 00:22:50,989
and the experiment still had another 9 days to run.

366
00:22:53,571 --> 00:22:57,583
At this point, a fellow psychologist 
visited Zimbardo's basement prison

367
00:22:57,591 --> 00:23:01,417
and would witness the brutality 
of the experiment first hand.

368
00:23:02,233 --> 00:23:05,383
[Zimbardo] The guards had lined up 
the prisoners to go to the toilet.

369
00:23:05,383 --> 00:23:07,726
They had bags over their heads, 
chains on their feet,

370
00:23:07,726 --> 00:23:09,622
and were marching by and I looked up.

371
00:23:09,622 --> 00:23:12,926
And I saw this circus, this parade,

372
00:23:12,926 --> 00:23:14,901
and I said, "Hey Chris, look at that."

373
00:23:15,475 --> 00:23:18,547
[Christina Maslach] I looked up, and 
I began to feel sick to my stomach.

374
00:23:18,547 --> 00:23:22,286
I had this just...
chilling, sickening feeling

375
00:23:22,286 --> 00:23:25,367
of watching this and you 
know, I just turned away.

376
00:23:25,918 --> 00:23:29,324
And I just let loose 
in this emotional tyranny.

377
00:23:29,324 --> 00:23:30,605
I just lost it.

378
00:23:30,605 --> 00:23:33,703
I was angry, scared, I was in tears.

379
00:23:33,703 --> 00:23:35,790
[Zimbardo] And I'm furious,

380
00:23:35,790 --> 00:23:37,584
saying you know, we had a big argument.

381
00:23:37,584 --> 00:23:39,019
You're supposed to 
be a psychologist.

382
00:23:39,019 --> 00:23:42,757
This is interesting dynamic behavior 
and I'm going through this whole thing

383
00:23:42,757 --> 00:23:44,651
the power of the situation.

384
00:23:44,651 --> 00:23:48,416
And she says "No, no, it's 
that young boys are suffering

385
00:23:48,416 --> 00:23:51,823
and you're responsible. 
You're letting it happen."

386
00:23:51,823 --> 00:23:54,882
I said "Oh my god, 
of course you're right."

387
00:23:56,129 --> 00:23:59,417
[Narrator] The next day, 
Zimbardo ended the experiment.

388
00:24:01,330 --> 00:24:06,839
Studies like his stimulated heated debate 
about the ethics of using human subjects.

389
00:24:06,839 --> 00:24:10,769
[Zimbardo] Really young men 
suffered verbally, physically.

390
00:24:10,769 --> 00:24:13,465
Prisoners felt shame in their role.

391
00:24:13,465 --> 00:24:15,365
Guards felt guilt.

392
00:24:15,365 --> 00:24:17,359
So in that sense, it's unethical.

393
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:22,096
That is, nobody has the right, the power, 
the privilege to do that to other people.

394
00:24:22,900 --> 00:24:26,290
[Narrator] In the wake of experiments 
like Zimbardo's and Milgrim's

395
00:24:26,290 --> 00:24:31,665
ethical guidelines changed, introducing 
greater safeguards to protect participants.

396
00:24:32,415 --> 00:24:36,218
In the Standford experiment, Zimbardo 
might have sped his volunteers distress

397
00:24:36,218 --> 00:24:39,781
had he not taken on a dual role in the study.

398
00:24:39,781 --> 00:24:41,731
[Zimbardo] If I was going to 
be the prison superintendent,

399
00:24:41,731 --> 00:24:45,416
I should have had a colleague 
who was overseeing the experiment.

400
00:24:45,416 --> 00:24:50,623
Who was in a position to stop it at any point.

401
00:24:50,623 --> 00:24:52,619
Or I should've been the principal investigator

402
00:24:52,619 --> 00:24:55,903
and get somebody who was going 
to be the prison superintendent.

403
00:24:55,903 --> 00:24:58,571
I realized that was a big mistake, 
to play both those roles.

404
00:24:58,571 --> 00:25:00,436
And by shifting back and forth.

405
00:25:03,393 --> 00:25:06,534
[Narrator] After the experiment, Zimbardo 
brought all the participants together

406
00:25:06,534 --> 00:25:08,851
to talk about their experiences.

407
00:25:09,371 --> 00:25:11,794
John Wayne would now come face to face

408
00:25:11,794 --> 00:25:14,214
with the hunger striker that he had tormented.

409
00:25:14,914 --> 00:25:15,873
[Eshleman] I was a little worried.

410
00:25:15,873 --> 00:25:19,424
I said "Oh my god, he's really 
gonna come down on me hard now."

411
00:25:19,424 --> 00:25:22,368
Now that we're on equal footing.

412
00:25:22,368 --> 00:25:23,662
[Ramsay] It harms me.

413
00:25:23,662 --> 00:25:26,084
[Eshleman] How did it harm you? 
How does it harm you?

414
00:25:26,084 --> 00:25:28,924
Just to think ((cross talk)) you know 
people can be like that?

415
00:25:28,924 --> 00:25:32,105
[Ramsay] Yeah, it let me in 
on some knowledge 


416
00:25:32,105 --> 00:25:34,385
that I've never experienced first hand.

417
00:25:34,385 --> 00:25:37,099
Because I know what you can turn into,

418
00:25:37,099 --> 00:25:39,425
I know what you're willing to do.

419
00:25:39,425 --> 00:25:41,887
[Eshleman] When I look back on 
it now, I behaved appallingly.

420
00:25:41,887 --> 00:25:45,308
You know, it was just horrid to look at.

421
00:25:45,308 --> 00:25:48,062
I think I tried to explain 
to him that at the time,

422
00:25:48,062 --> 00:25:50,928
what you experience and 
what you hated so much

423
00:25:50,928 --> 00:25:54,126
was a role that I was playing, 
that's not me at all.

424
00:25:54,126 --> 00:26:00,461
[Ramsay] He was trying to dissociate 
himself from what he had done.

425
00:26:00,461 --> 00:26:03,026
That did make me angry.

426
00:26:03,026 --> 00:26:05,545
Everyone was acting out 
a part and playing a role:

427
00:26:05,545 --> 00:26:08,457
prisoners, guards, staff,

428
00:26:08,457 --> 00:26:11,166
everyone was acting out a part.

429
00:26:11,166 --> 00:26:15,513
It's when you start contributing 
to the script,

430
00:26:16,377 --> 00:26:20,976
that's you and thus it's something you 
should take responsibility for.

431
00:26:20,976 --> 00:26:23,776
[Eshleman] Uh, I didn't 
see where it was really harmful.

432
00:26:23,776 --> 00:26:27,295
It was degrading and that was part 
of my particular little experiment

433
00:26:27,295 --> 00:26:30,164
to see how I could--

434
00:26:30,164 --> 00:26:31,843
[Ramsay] Your particular little experiment?!

435
00:26:31,843 --> 00:26:33,053
Why don't you tell me about that.

436
00:26:33,053 --> 00:26:35,534
[Eshleman] Yes, I was running...
I was running a little experiment of my own.

437
00:26:35,534 --> 00:26:37,941
[Ramsay] Tell me about your 
little experiments, I'm curious.

438
00:26:37,941 --> 00:26:43,062
[Eshleman] I wanted to see what 
kind of verbal abuse that people can take

439
00:26:43,062 --> 00:26:47,183
before they start objecting, 
before they start lashing back.

440
00:26:47,183 --> 00:26:49,256
[Eshleman] If I have any regret, right now,

441
00:26:49,256 --> 00:26:52,776
it's that I made that decision, 
because it would've been interesting

442
00:26:52,776 --> 00:26:58,964
to see what would have happened 
had I not decided to force things.

443
00:27:00,959 --> 00:27:05,645
It could be that I only accelerated them, 
that the same things would've happened.

444
00:27:05,645 --> 00:27:08,221
But we'll never know.

445
00:27:08,221 --> 00:27:11,859
[Narrator] If the extreme nature of 
Dave Eshleman's behavior tested the prisoners,

446
00:27:11,859 --> 00:27:14,791
it also presented the other 
guards with the choice:

447
00:27:14,791 --> 00:27:16,837
to intervene, or not.

448
00:27:16,837 --> 00:27:19,248
[Eshleman] It surprised me 
that no one said anything to stop me.

449
00:27:19,248 --> 00:27:20,640
They just accepted what I'd say.

450
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:22,726
And no one questioned 
my authority at all.

451
00:27:22,726 --> 00:27:27,429
And it really shocked me, why didn't 
people say when I started to get so abusive?

452
00:27:27,429 --> 00:27:32,658
I started to get so profane, 
and still people didn't say anything.

453
00:27:34,357 --> 00:27:38,374
[Zimbardo] There were a few guards who
hated to see the prisoners suffer,

454
00:27:38,374 --> 00:27:41,562
they never did anything that 
would be demeaning of the prisoners.

455
00:27:41,562 --> 00:27:45,434
The interesting thing is, none 
of the good guards ever intervened

456
00:27:45,434 --> 00:27:50,383
in the behavior of the guards who gradually 
became more and more sadistical over time.

457
00:27:51,893 --> 00:27:56,288
We like to think there is this core of human 
nature that good people can't do bad things.

458
00:27:56,288 --> 00:28:00,877
And that good people will 
dominate over bad situations.

459
00:28:00,877 --> 00:28:03,772
In fact, one way to look 
at this prison study is that

460
00:28:03,772 --> 00:28:06,088
we put good people in an evil place

461
00:28:06,088 --> 00:28:07,718
and we saw who won.

462
00:28:07,718 --> 00:28:11,936
And the sad message in this case is, 
the evil place won over the good people.

463
00:28:14,318 --> 00:28:17,285
[Eshleman] It did show some very 
interesting and maybe some unpleasant things

464
00:28:17,285 --> 00:28:20,091
about human behavior.

465
00:28:20,091 --> 00:28:24,113
It seems like every century, 
every decade that we go through,

466
00:28:24,113 --> 00:28:29,893
we're suffering the same kind of 
atrocities and you need to understand

467
00:28:29,893 --> 00:28:30,873
why these things happen,

468
00:28:30,873 --> 00:28:33,769
you need to understand 
why people behave like this.