WEBVTT
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RC3 preroll music
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Herald: Hello, and welcome back on the
x-Hain stage at this very strange RC3. Now
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on the second day and our next talk is by
aprica and Saad, we're going to talk about
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how to add critical making to your
critical thinking to your making. And
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there was a talk two years ago at 35 c3
when we're still able to meet in person,
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which was also already talking about the
subject. And this now kind of as a follow
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up. And they're going to talk about what
we can learn from critical makers and
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other grassroot initiatives. Yes, the
stage is yours.
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aprica: Thank you, Carl. Thank you so much
for hosting us here under the tree and
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X-Hain. Well, maybe not so great to be
here and great to have you all watching in
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the stream, and I hope next year we will
meet on the trees again and also not on
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the trees and the at the rocket. So I'm
aprica . I'm part of the global innovation
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gathering a big worldwide community that I
often describe as global erpha, which most
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of the CCC- folks would know as a
Erfahrungsaustauschkreis. So knowledge
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sharing and circle. And so we are also a
knowledge sharing circle, and I'm joined
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by Saad, who was one of the amazing
members of the association and of the
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network of gig from Singapore. And do you
want to quickly introduce yourself as
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well?
Saad: Sure thing. I'm based in Singapore
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normally, and last year we had a little
talk about with Regina and on critical
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thinking and critical making, which was
actually quite phenomenal. The response
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was really great. And who had a chance to
work on this, together with the other gig
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members, members of the Global Innovation
Group, which is also part. So I'm very
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happy to be with you a little bit of my
background. I'm a tech person. I run a
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small startup in Singapore and I also help
with maker spaces and tech for good. And
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I'm a huge coffee snob that that's me.
aprica: Other people would call it coffee
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coffee geek. both laughing
Saab:That works too.
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aprica: Nice. So I think some people now
in the stream also see our slides and we
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are on the first slide. And on the second
slide, you would see a picture of an
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actual stage and an actual Congress where
Regina and Saad last year defined
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critical, making the topic rules two years
ago. It's basically yesterday like pre-
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pandemic, but it's also 100 years ago,
right? So last timelaughs you spoke
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about the topic, you define it as adding
critical thinking to the making. And so we
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arrive at critical making. And I guess
there's like 200 other definitions of
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this. Which one did you share, Saad?
Saad: Making with a purpose, I think, is
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the one that puts the best. The idea that
the skills and experience and knowledge
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that have being applied towards something
that is constructive and meaningful, and
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that means very different things to very
different people. So depending on the
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context that you're in, the definition
changes quite dramatically by sort of
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digging down into it, making with a
purpose, understanding what that purpose
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is, rather than just using your 3D printer
for printing you over their heads all the
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time, you think about how this could
actually help people with customization,
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personalization, things like that. So
that's the that's the sort of thing that
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definition, but I prefer to making with
the purpase.
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aprica: Well, yeah, that's certainly one
of them. Yeah, very easy to understand
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once. Also, it's also very academic
concept. And so everybody who's interested
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in this whole concept and all and all the
different areas of critical making, we
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highly recommend. I highly recommend
because speaking of this, I really
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recommend to watch the talk by Regina and
Saad. It's like one hour long, and it will
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give them very comprehensive and also
academic viewpoint of the topic. And today
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I think we will focus more on, what
happened since then and what's beyond just
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the not just beyond the concept. So to go
to the third slide, you see, this is one
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of the pictures also shared in the talk
back then of the global innovation
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gathering, when we also were still
gathering physically with the Big Blue
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Mobile Lab. And I would love to go like
for two minutes into what's happened since
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we gathered the last time. So what
happened during the pandemic in terms of
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how? How did critical making evolve in
public perception during the time of the
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pandemic? Saad, what would you say?
Saad: Well, I think we've seen a
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phenomenal response, a global response
from makers to meet the needs of what the
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pandemic has surfaced. I mean, I think
there's a phenomenal potential here in the
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nature of this response. But if we
remember about a year or so ago and I
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know, time is broken because of COVID, but
about a year or so ago, there was this
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shortage of personal protective equipment,
PPE and people came forward in order to
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try and help. And it wasn't just health
care workers, it wasn't just social
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workers. It was anybody and everybody who
had skills or knowledge or experience,
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tried to find a way to make themselves
useful. And this happening on a global
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scale in response to something like the
personal shortage of PPE. Drew out a lot
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of critical neighbors, as in makers who
were quite comfortable with how 3D
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printers work or how maker spaces work,
and trying to apply that to a social need,
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which I think is remarkable in itself. But
on a global scale, I think that that that
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potential is phenomenal, that all of us
have had to find ways to adapt digitally
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and go online and do things remotely. And
I really miss having a CCC in person, for
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example, and the global innovation
gathering hasn't happened in person. So I
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really do miss that and I'm looking
forward to a time where we're able to meet
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in person again, trying to stay
optimistic, but with we're still not out
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of it yet. The pandemic is still very much
something we're adapting to, something
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that we're responding to. And to answer
your question, what's changed, I feel, is
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that people are now more involved. People
who are normally sort of in their own
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maker spaces bubble or in the tech bubble
or in the hacker space bubble are now more
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involved and more engaged and recognized
for the skills to be relevant to a social
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cause. So I think moving forward, I would
like to see us try and tap on that
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potential as much as possible.
aprica: Yeah, definitely, and I mean, the
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space we're in at the moment, the Ixion
can make space was like at the forefront
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together with, of course, many other
spaces in Germany to produce such
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protective equipment. And if you see
around around us now, you also see like
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lots of figurines of, I don't know, Yoda
hats, for example, and many other things
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that bring joy to making as well. And
that, for example, help to educate about,
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which tools to use, for example. And then,
yeah, looking in what you're doing in
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Singapore, was creating toys for children
with disabilities, which you also sharing
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in the talk two years ago, where they can
interact with like big buttons instead of
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like tiny, tiny things that they can't
really touch and interact with. That's
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also bringing lots of joy. And it's not
only always to counter a pandemic, but it
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was there before. And now I think it's
very, yeah, more in mainstream. Well, it
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was for a time more arriving in mainstream
that this is really, yeah, a movement or
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movements to follow and to contribute to
as well. So what we often do and this is
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the next slide is we create a Horizon 2020
proposal for things we want to do. And so
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this is my work actually to bring in
funding that lasts us for two and a half
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years, for example, in this case, to
really further research, to collaborate
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with researchers as a civil society
organization ourselves and to be able to
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work together globally on a specific
project and on a specific topic. So in the
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craziness of the beginning of the
pandemic, we found that critical making is
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the one topic that is not very researched
and that we can contribute to as a network
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and also connecting with Regina as part of
the two billion and other organizations
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that you see here with Vicki Factory.
That's a global platform for makers to
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share designs, for example, and to find a
community of other designers and makers
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and the Center for Social Innovation in
Austria and also Vitt in Finland. So we've
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produced this project together that got
finally accepted by the European Union,
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which was really nice. And so we are now
thankful for getting support for the
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research we're doing now in critical
making. So this was after after Congress
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that we wrote this. And the main goal and
you see this on the next slide, is to help
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make a communities to work with anyone to
contribute to open source innovation. And
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so from this very complex like research
frameworks that Horizon 2020 is using,
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like the responsible research and
innovation framework and others, we found
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that it connects very well with values
that also we want to further contribute
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to, like openness, like inclusion. And so
we selected a few of those. We selected
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gender diversity, we selected young
talents. We call it because in such
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proposals, you often have to use language
that speaks to the funder. And we also
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selected openness as a very broad term,
also to research on. And today I would
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like to show you a little bit of what's
already happened, because we're now at the
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end of the first year of the project and
show you about what we're up to as well.
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So to just give you a very tiny glimpse
into, what we did in the gender work
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package, we work with different spaces,
different makers in several countries. And
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in this case, I brought two examples of
case studies that will be published soon
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about different spaces. The. One is Miss
Baltazar Laboratory and Austria, which I
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highly recommend to check out. And then
there were like many different more and
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also X-Hain. And of course, I need to show
that here as we are in X-Hain at the
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moment. laughs And this is super nice
because of course, if you like think about
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gender, many people would assume it's only
about like inclusion of women of girls in
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maker spaces. But of course it's not. It's
like to have an understanding of the
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multitude of genders and also like them to
to include everyone. Also have a nice
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space for people identifying as male,
female and many other genders. And in this
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case, it's just so nice also about X-Hain,
that they are not saying like we have
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space for women or we have space for only
for a specific kind of nerd. But we want
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to be very, very inclusive and very safe
for everyone. So that's just a very tiny
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examples you will find online more in our
deliverables. We call it that. Yeah. The
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reports that we have to hand in to the
European Union. And then after handing
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them in, we take snippets out of these and
published them and a more like human
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interaction formats, that people outside
of academia can also read better and watch
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better. Than the next one I see in slide
nine is Yang Taelons, which basically make
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about maker education for young people.
And there you already find online, and
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that's the next slide. The review of
measures to integrate young people into
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make a community. And then we looked
mostly only at Germany at the moment and
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want to be creating this for other
countries as well. So if you're interested
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in this part of the project, you can
already download like the full report, the
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first one. But you can also reach out to
us and contribute to the next steps. And
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then the part in the next slide openness,
which is the one that I want to be talking
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a little bit more about, because that's
the one, where we're mostly working
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together here. So for openness, you see in
the next slide, that was some academic
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article now published, which is a
literature review on the openness
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practices and which is like, very directed
for researchers, of course. But we're also
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starting to make, yeah, like talks like
this about what was found out by our
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colleagues, who were doing the literature
review. So in the next slide, you see a
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little bit more accessible. What they
found is that openness, as probably all of
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you also know, it's one of the core values
of global makeup movements. But as you
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probably also all know, there are lots and
lots of different interpretations and ways
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of practicing this. So we can speak about
open hardware, which is probably one of
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the most obvious for many of the people
just watching this, because it's also
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something we speak at Chaos Congress all
the time. So like sharing what you're
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making and like open repositories, for
example, creating very easy tech like
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frugal tech, customizing things. So that's
all integral part of open hardware. I
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would say from then found other aspects
that are strong in the literature as well,
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like openness can also be understood as
inclusion and empowerment of, for example,
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of people with disabilities, but also
generally consumers or ethnic minorities.
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So all different kinds of inclusions that
one could think of. It's probably like one
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of the things, I think also a slick
hacker. Ethics is concerned, but. That is
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maybe not always in our minds and then
also very important economic growth,
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especially if we look at the global scale
of the maker movement. So that we have
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open business models, for example, and
high innovation activities and. And the
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field. And so this already shows also lots
of tension, so I would like to go to the
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next slide, where you see the tensions
identified in the scientific literature.
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So there's lots of tension between
different economic stances like people who
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want to have their make up practice,
mostly for leisure purposes, mostly for
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also capitalistic or anti capitalistic
purposes. So this is quite an important
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tension to identify and also to to work
around. Then tensions arising from
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different imagined areas of the future
role of making like, do you use it in a
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revolutionary sense or in the sense that
contributes to the current status of the
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capitalist system, for example? And then
also, of course, always that's maybe the
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least important finding between individual
and collective orientations, where you
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often have, like, What do I do? And what
is good for society is. Something that's
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always important to to go forward with us
as a discussion. Yeah. So these are the
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scientific findings from this article. Not
not all of them, of course. Please read
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the article also has more in it. And do
you want to add something, Saad? You will
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bring more examples of these different
tensions, I guess.
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Saad: Yeah, I mean, I have my perspective
is always the sort of hands on learning by
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example kind of approach. For the more
academic perspective, I turn to Regina and
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people who are with the academic
community. So I won't I can't really speak
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to that perspective. But, to add to what
you've already said, I think the the
00:21:05.320 --> 00:21:13.210
nature of the work, at least from my
perspective, being all hands on does meet
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a lot of resistance with these
restrictions, you the whole pandemic
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situation. So I'm hoping that we are going
to see more examples of people coming
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forward with a more constructive mindset
and the ability to share. Because we've
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seen examples of this in response to the
pandemic, and some of that is now starting
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to show up in people's mindset. And when
people who are normally not so engaged
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with engineering, good, where I volunteer,
is depends entirely on volunteers. And
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sometimes people show up like once a week,
once one weekend a month to volunteer, and
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then they go back into their day to day
lives and we see them every now and again,
00:22:07.264 --> 00:22:12.492
when they have the time. But in the last
few in the recent past, we've seen a
00:22:12.492 --> 00:22:18.640
different kind of volunteer, a different
kind of mindset that they bring to their
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work. And it seems a little bit more
motivated, I feel. And so the work, that
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we've been doing in the past, this idea of
being open and to share and to be able to
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look into other people's work and try and
replicate it, that aspect is starting to
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get to be more welcomed by these
volunteers. It's not seen as an alien
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idea. It's not like you have to sort of
like workshop it and get people
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comfortable with this idea. And in Asian
cultures, that more of that is necessary,
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I feel. But the remarkable difference, I
think. I don't know if this is just me,
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but from what I've seen, the mindset has
shifted and people are more open to trying
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new things and also sharing what they've
tried, rather than waiting until they get
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to a point, that something works and then
they share it. So the process of that
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they're going through is something that
you don't, at least with Asian
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sensibilities, you tend not to share it.
You would think that it's not good enough
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or it's not fully formed yet. So you tend
to keep it to yourself or just a few
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people that you're working with and it
never gets documented. It never gets
00:23:36.520 --> 00:23:40.223
shared. But I'm starting to see more
examples of that.
00:23:40.223 --> 00:23:46.979
aprica: Yeah, I think that's not only
Asian. Asian problem laughs, but we have
00:23:46.979 --> 00:23:54.617
it like everywhere that you have so many
projects or left foot products that people
00:23:54.617 --> 00:24:00.570
create, that are like prototypes to a
certain stage and then you either don't
00:24:00.570 --> 00:24:06.714
have time for it anymore or you just feel
like you can't finish it and it never gets
00:24:06.714 --> 00:24:14.360
documented. So that's also one of the
issues. We found another identified when
00:24:14.360 --> 00:24:23.280
we met in 2019 in Kenya and the crew. This
the global innovation gathering in the
00:24:23.280 --> 00:24:30.000
like Work Workshop kind of conference, and
we came up with what is shared on the next
00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:35.454
slide. The principles of sustainable
making and sustainable is not only
00:24:35.454 --> 00:24:41.962
environmentally, but also, what you would
call maybe responsible or with purpose. So
00:24:41.962 --> 00:24:45.937
do you want to share a little bit more
about that?
00:24:45.937 --> 00:24:51.967
Saad: With the process behind? This was
mind boggling to me. The sort of energy
00:24:51.967 --> 00:25:00.247
that was in the room at the time, when we
were discussing this was sort of, for me,
00:25:00.247 --> 00:25:06.880
at least very hard to keep up with. And
the challenge was to try and encapsulate
00:25:06.880 --> 00:25:11.954
what that sort of very diverse
perspectives that were coming in all at
00:25:11.954 --> 00:25:17.141
the same time, because with the global
innovation gathering and many other groups
00:25:17.141 --> 00:25:23.219
of that sort. There's a lot of diversity
and the nature of the people who are
00:25:23.219 --> 00:25:29.846
working on maker spaces and co-working
spaces are sort of enterprise type of
00:25:29.846 --> 00:25:35.692
ecosystems or hackerspaces. They're very
socially engaged and it tends to be in
00:25:35.692 --> 00:25:42.039
response to the local environment in which
they exist. So the learnings and the sort
00:25:42.039 --> 00:25:49.265
of mindset that they have and they bring
to this, this particular topic, that we're
00:25:49.265 --> 00:25:56.316
talking about unlocked a whole world of
opinions and perspectives. And all of that
00:25:56.316 --> 00:26:01.425
was flooding in and to this room after
having gone through the sort of ice
00:26:01.425 --> 00:26:07.082
breaking thing, it was all just pouring in
and it was very difficult to sort of sort
00:26:07.082 --> 00:26:13.398
out what was happening. So the process was
a mess. And if you look at the image now,
00:26:13.398 --> 00:26:20.772
it's very neat and clean and tidy. But I
feel every single aspect of what's being
00:26:20.772 --> 00:26:27.967
portrayed here is a representation of this
diversity in an international on a global
00:26:27.967 --> 00:26:34.303
scale, and all of this was just before the
pandemic and the idea of this of this
00:26:34.303 --> 00:26:41.646
global perspective, bringing it through
times of crisis, I think is phenomenal. I
00:26:41.646 --> 00:26:51.110
mean, I could go on and on and Typekit,
but that's just what I think at the point.
00:26:51.110 --> 00:26:59.422
aprica: Thank you, and yeah, I also feel
it's phenomenal, and we try to replicate
00:26:59.422 --> 00:27:07.280
this kind of. Yeah. Sessions and workshops
online and to have big whiteboards
00:27:07.280 --> 00:27:14.880
together. But yeah, I'm very happy that we
also got to build this still in person.
00:27:14.880 --> 00:27:21.120
And so we came up with these five
principles of integrate local knowledge of
00:27:21.120 --> 00:27:26.880
make things that make sense, of share how
you make like that's one of the openness
00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:33.120
factors, of course, build for continuity
and also include ecosystem services. So
00:27:33.120 --> 00:27:38.960
look around you and look what's already
there and also contribute back to what's
00:27:38.960 --> 00:27:45.600
around you. And based on these and what we
already talked about in particular making.
00:27:46.400 --> 00:27:54.880
We built this project. And while I was
away for three months and didn't look at
00:27:54.880 --> 00:28:03.840
any email and recharged this year, the
project team also updated this for our
00:28:03.840 --> 00:28:14.000
project, so that we now look at being
local and connected. Have like a social
00:28:14.560 --> 00:28:23.200
background and what you're doing at the
criticality. So be reflexive, have an
00:28:23.200 --> 00:28:29.280
impact and change structures and adding to
it the joyful and meaningful. But we
00:28:29.280 --> 00:28:34.320
didn't found and our principles PAC Man,
which is we of course, always think that's
00:28:34.320 --> 00:28:42.160
part of it, hopefully.laughes So adding
some glitter is always necessary. So this
00:28:42.880 --> 00:28:50.080
from that slide is, what we're now working
with and the critical making principles,
00:28:50.080 --> 00:28:57.680
basically, and we are also building upon
it in the next steps of the project. So I
00:28:57.680 --> 00:29:03.920
would like to share, what we're now
working on in the next few months, which
00:29:03.920 --> 00:29:10.960
is on the next slide. The Critical Making
Mentoring program, which is to be starting
00:29:11.920 --> 00:29:21.280
to have an open call in January or early
February. And then we'll go through four
00:29:21.280 --> 00:29:26.480
will go on for the whole year. So on the
next slide, you see, why are we doing
00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:36.160
this? We did like a small survey within
our own circles and again found, that
00:29:36.160 --> 00:29:42.720
openness also for everybody in the global
innovation gathering community is very
00:29:42.720 --> 00:29:49.040
important value, which we knew, but it's
nice to see it again. And then also the
00:29:49.040 --> 00:29:55.375
economic opportunities of making all very
important. So we're thinking about lower
00:29:55.375 --> 00:30:00.400
income countries sometimes. But also if
you look at high income countries, there's
00:30:00.400 --> 00:30:07.280
so many volunteer projects like projects
are doing in your free time that in the
00:30:07.280 --> 00:30:13.920
end you would like to find somehow a way
to further work on them. And what is
00:30:13.920 --> 00:30:22.400
possible without any like economic
background to add to it? And then also
00:30:23.040 --> 00:30:30.480
inclusion was recognized as an important
topic like including, for example, people
00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:37.520
with lower technical skills and also, for
example, having making more accessible for
00:30:37.520 --> 00:30:44.480
people with disabilities. So we're looking
at that. And on the next slide, you see,
00:30:44.480 --> 00:30:50.000
I'm trying to live up to the value of
sharing early, like one of those online
00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:58.400
mind boards of like forts of seeing, what
we want to be doing in the year in this
00:30:58.400 --> 00:31:06.480
project. where we're having mentoring
workshops throughout the summer and we
00:31:06.480 --> 00:31:13.680
will hopefully in the end have an amazing
demo week or demo day, where we also give
00:31:14.480 --> 00:31:21.985
a reward for people who participate in it.
And we're still in this last phase of co-
00:31:21.985 --> 00:31:32.159
designing that program to prepare the open
call. So I'm inviting you for watching now
00:31:32.160 --> 00:31:42.160
already to watch our space, to maybe apply
for the program or share it also with
00:31:42.160 --> 00:31:49.520
others who could be interested in it. And
last but not least, I would like to share
00:31:49.520 --> 00:31:56.400
a few tools and. Resources, whereas
currently assembling. So one of the things
00:31:57.120 --> 00:32:04.960
we're preparing for the next two months, I
think, is toolkits for researchers and
00:32:04.960 --> 00:32:12.720
filmmakers. And you see on the next slide
one example of a tool for makers, to learn
00:32:12.720 --> 00:32:19.760
about open hardware, and I hope you all
know this already. But if not, check out
00:32:19.760 --> 00:32:28.640
this open hardware makers program. It's an
amazing resource to learn like the basics
00:32:28.640 --> 00:32:37.120
of open hardware. We collected, you see on
the next slide, lots and lots of different
00:32:38.480 --> 00:32:44.400
resources for people to look at. And this
is just the first page of a long list,
00:32:45.040 --> 00:32:52.160
that we want to publish in the next weeks
for people to look at and to add to. And
00:32:52.160 --> 00:33:01.120
then the last bit I want to be sharing is
the self-reflection as a slider tool. And
00:33:01.120 --> 00:33:10.560
this is what you find on the slider tool
page, where we also look at the different
00:33:11.360 --> 00:33:21.840
categories of the principles and where we
use this tool once we start with the
00:33:21.840 --> 00:33:27.680
mentoring program for people to just
reflect back on their own making on their
00:33:27.680 --> 00:33:35.440
own projects and where we have the idea
that this would be like a like a game and
00:33:35.440 --> 00:33:41.760
Saad, you created that idea together with
a few other people also in Singapore to
00:33:41.760 --> 00:33:48.080
just have like a needle to spin. And then
you don't always answer it and the same
00:33:50.240 --> 00:33:54.400
like one after the other question, but you
can really make it also a little bit more
00:33:54.400 --> 00:34:02.560
fun. So on the next page, you see how this
was created, also from masi slides back
00:34:03.600 --> 00:34:12.800
back, when we were meeting in person. So
how it evolved and on the next slide, you
00:34:12.800 --> 00:34:20.160
see some guiding cards, that should help
you to actually think about what to ask
00:34:20.160 --> 00:34:27.360
yourself like. How do you think about what
makes sense or how do you think about
00:34:27.360 --> 00:34:33.040
being self-sustainable and to to share a
few questions around this? So you have
00:34:33.040 --> 00:34:38.160
like a card game that you can have and you
maker space and you can make a workshop
00:34:38.160 --> 00:34:45.758
around it and work with other people in
the maker space to speak about that. So,
00:34:45.758 --> 00:34:56.280
and then on the last page, you see how to
follow the project and how to contribute
00:34:56.280 --> 00:35:03.814
to it also in the wiki factory community
and where we will also be launching the
00:35:03.814 --> 00:35:13.822
calls on these platforms very soon in the
next year, which is basically tomorrow.
00:35:13.822 --> 00:35:20.712
both are laughing And if you're watching
this in January, it's maybe already there
00:35:20.712 --> 00:35:29.840
in February. So now I would say call can
come back.
00:35:29.840 --> 00:35:35.680
Herald: Yes. Thank you very much for the
talk. And before now, we have a few more
00:35:35.680 --> 00:35:41.280
minutes for a quick Q&A session. And
before we start that, I want to remind the
00:35:41.280 --> 00:35:47.040
viewers and listeners that you can ask
questions for this talk using Twitter and
00:35:47.040 --> 00:35:56.400
Mastodon using the hashtag ac3xhain.
That's rc3xhain. And you can also ask
00:35:56.400 --> 00:36:04.320
questions on IRC on Hekint and using the
Channel RC3-XHain. And we already got a
00:36:04.320 --> 00:36:10.320
few questions in, and many of them are
asking, where they can find more
00:36:10.320 --> 00:36:15.600
information. So you already showed the
link just now is everything you talked
00:36:15.600 --> 00:36:20.243
about can be found on there, I think?
aprica: Not everything is published yet.
00:36:20.243 --> 00:36:29.600
Many of the things I just showed are also
still a work in progress. And if somebody
00:36:29.600 --> 00:36:36.322
is like, eager to have it immediately, we
can of course share like our internal
00:36:36.322 --> 00:36:44.139
boards with people, but otherwise we
always like continuously publish things on
00:36:44.139 --> 00:36:49.440
the website to to find. Yeah.
Herald: OK. So the people just have to
00:36:49.440 --> 00:36:54.800
follow you on Twitter and look at your
website and reach out directly to you. And
00:36:54.800 --> 00:37:00.316
then the next question I got here was What
is frugal tech, exactly?
00:37:00.316 --> 00:37:05.330
aprica: Saad, do you want to answer that?
both are laughing
00:37:05.330 --> 00:37:10.807
Saad: It's an interesting question. I
mean, if depending on who you ask, it'll
00:37:10.807 --> 00:37:16.113
probably get co-opted as a new buzzword or
a hashtag, especially if you talk to the
00:37:16.113 --> 00:37:21.504
voice of venture capital and sort of
world. But the way I see it is sort of
00:37:21.504 --> 00:37:27.977
like borrowing from the disruptive mindset
where you look at what is available in the
00:37:27.977 --> 00:37:32.200
marketplace and find a lower cost
alternative for it. And when you look at
00:37:32.200 --> 00:37:36.129
the assistive tech marketplace, when you
work with persons with disabilities and
00:37:36.129 --> 00:37:40.838
you look at the devices that are
available, they suffer from high prices
00:37:40.838 --> 00:37:47.493
because of supply and demand. And you have
a fairly small, relatively small market
00:37:47.493 --> 00:37:52.571
and the cost of production of a
specialized device is quite high. So the
00:37:52.571 --> 00:37:56.993
products that you find in the assistive
tech marketplace tend to be very
00:37:56.993 --> 00:38:02.035
expensive. And when you look at it, it
could be as simple as just like a button,
00:38:02.035 --> 00:38:07.234
which you just press the button and
something happens and the button itself
00:38:07.234 --> 00:38:12.692
costs like sixty five dollars. And it
doesn't quite make sense to me that this
00:38:12.692 --> 00:38:17.652
is a good thing, but that is what you will
find in the marketplace. So to answer the
00:38:17.652 --> 00:38:23.526
question. I think frugal tech or frugal
innovation is to sort of think outside the
00:38:23.526 --> 00:38:30.783
box of the normal, or at least the
established workflow of making a product
00:38:30.783 --> 00:38:37.716
that is this expensive to take the end
price or the user perspective as the
00:38:37.716 --> 00:38:43.680
starting point and then figure out the
value chain from behind it are the cost of
00:38:43.680 --> 00:38:48.492
production from from that point on with an
inner makerspace that happens all the
00:38:48.492 --> 00:38:52.450
time. You are working with things that
you're not entirely sure of. So instead of
00:38:52.450 --> 00:38:56.293
starting with something really, really
expensive, you start with something that
00:38:56.293 --> 00:39:00.504
is cheap and cheerful, something that you
can have lots of. If you break one, that's
00:39:00.504 --> 00:39:04.223
OK, you can always try it on another one.
And then when you're confident with that,
00:39:04.223 --> 00:39:09.330
you translate what you've learned into
something that's a little bit expensive.
00:39:09.330 --> 00:39:15.595
So that I think Approach speaks to, I
think, what people are calling now frugal
00:39:15.595 --> 00:39:20.114
tech or frugal innovation.
aprica: Oh, my very short answer would
00:39:20.114 --> 00:39:27.200
have been that just low cost, because
that's the easiest I would be able to come
00:39:27.200 --> 00:39:32.980
up with, but that's way more colorful now.
I hope for everybody. laugh
00:39:32.980 --> 00:39:40.707
Herald: Yes, and thank you for the great
explanation. The next question we have is
00:39:40.707 --> 00:39:47.101
how does this movement or how do you
include people who are not that interested
00:39:47.101 --> 00:39:52.169
in politics or the political side of
making and just want to build cool stuff?
00:39:52.169 --> 00:39:56.089
both laughing
aprica: How do you do that in Singapore?
00:39:56.089 --> 00:40:01.794
Well, it's very easy because, you know,
the political scene in Singapore is quite,
00:40:01.794 --> 00:40:06.543
how shall we put this? Not very exciting.
And I don't really care much for politics
00:40:06.543 --> 00:40:11.413
either. Whether it be like, you know, at
the government level, our internal
00:40:11.413 --> 00:40:16.912
politics within large companies, I just I
just don't have the mental capacity for
00:40:16.912 --> 00:40:24.440
wrap my head around that. So I really like
to just do things. And I find that with a
00:40:24.440 --> 00:40:30.584
physical thing, it's easier to talk about
something. It sort of crystallizes what
00:40:30.584 --> 00:40:37.332
your your ideas are, even if the thing is
made out of Post-it notes or cardboard or,
00:40:37.332 --> 00:40:46.440
you know, cable ties and duct tape. It
just having that little physical, tangible
00:40:46.440 --> 00:40:55.055
prototype helps focus the attention on the
thing that you're trying to solve. So the
00:40:55.055 --> 00:41:01.738
conversation I find becomes solution
oriented rather than ideological process
00:41:01.738 --> 00:41:08.040
or about manufacturing principles or
design ideologies or even good ones. So I
00:41:08.040 --> 00:41:14.362
find that it's not I mean, it didn't work
all the time, but having something
00:41:14.362 --> 00:41:19.583
tangible really helps to sort of bring
that point back to the solution that
00:41:19.583 --> 00:41:23.835
you're talking about.
aprica: Yeah, yeah. And adding to that,
00:41:23.835 --> 00:41:29.085
there's always like so many different
levels of politics. So maybe you're not
00:41:29.085 --> 00:41:33.846
interested in global or national or
whatever politics, but you're still
00:41:33.846 --> 00:41:40.040
interested to help your own community
around you. So if you look at, I don't
00:41:40.040 --> 00:41:47.748
know, sensors for airquality or if you
look at providing free public Wi-Fi for
00:41:47.748 --> 00:41:53.871
people or all these things are very
political in one way and very much not
00:41:53.871 --> 00:42:00.040
very political in another way, like
depending on how you want to look at them.
00:42:00.040 --> 00:42:06.246
So. So I think there will be like areas to
contribute for anyone, like whether it's
00:42:06.246 --> 00:42:13.176
for their own grandma or whether it's for
like a whole school class. In the end,
00:42:13.176 --> 00:42:20.225
that's not so important.
Herald: OK. Very interesting. So I think
00:42:20.225 --> 00:42:27.137
now our time for Q&A is almost over. So I
want to thank both of you again for having
00:42:27.137 --> 00:42:33.378
this really interesting talk here at our
X-Hain stage. And I want to thank all of
00:42:33.378 --> 00:42:40.652
you us for watching. And our next talk
will happen in a bit more than an hour at
00:42:40.652 --> 00:42:46.960
16:00. It's the car's audio. It's 407
reverse engineering kochen, nähen break
00:42:46.960 --> 00:42:51.126
points, and I hope we'll see you all
there.
00:42:51.126 --> 00:42:58.474
aprica: And maybe I'm sorry, Tony
commercial if you're still there. Go to
00:42:58.474 --> 00:43:06.652
the open hardware. Happy hour and also go
to on the last day to the prototype and
00:43:06.652 --> 00:43:11.285
hardware announcements. So don't miss
that.
00:43:11.285 --> 00:43:23.142
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