0:00:00.936,0:00:04.188
Picture yourself driving[br]down the road tomorrow,

0:00:04.212,0:00:08.114
heading somewhere to buy an item[br]you found on Craigslist,

0:00:09.020,0:00:12.601
perhaps a nice mountain bike[br]for 3,000 dollars.

0:00:13.409,0:00:15.625
At that price, it's probably[br]one of those bikes

0:00:15.649,0:00:17.449
with a little electric motor on it --

0:00:17.473,0:00:18.496
(Laughter)

0:00:18.520,0:00:20.589
maybe some streamers from the handlebars.

0:00:20.613,0:00:21.654
(Laughter)

0:00:22.089,0:00:25.006
The seller has declared this[br]a cash-only deal,

0:00:25.030,0:00:29.420
so you have, in the console[br]of your car, 3,000 dollars.

0:00:29.444,0:00:32.317
Suddenly, you are pulled over.

0:00:33.163,0:00:35.321
During the stop, the officer asks,

0:00:35.345,0:00:40.736
"Do you have any drugs, weapons[br]or large amounts of cash in your car?"

0:00:42.272,0:00:43.783
You truthfully answer, "Yes,"

0:00:43.807,0:00:45.596
not to the drugs or to the weapons,

0:00:45.620,0:00:47.023
but to the cash.

0:00:47.690,0:00:50.979
In the blink of an eye,[br]you are ordered out of your car.

0:00:51.961,0:00:55.116
The officer searches it[br]and finds your cash.

0:00:56.379,0:00:58.238
On the spot, he seizes it,

0:00:58.262,0:01:01.509
and he says he suspects[br]it's part of a drug crime.

0:01:02.252,0:01:03.406
A few days later,

0:01:03.430,0:01:07.364
the local district attorney files[br]paperwork to keep your money --

0:01:07.388,0:01:08.621
permanently.

0:01:09.219,0:01:10.370
And all of this happens

0:01:10.394,0:01:14.459
without you ever being charged[br]or convicted of any crime.

0:01:15.197,0:01:16.519
Now, you might be saying,

0:01:16.543,0:01:19.594
"Ah, this would never happen[br]in the United States."

0:01:20.293,0:01:23.578
(Laughter)

0:01:24.217,0:01:27.919
Incidents like this occur[br]every day in our country.

0:01:27.943,0:01:31.010
It's one of the most significant threats[br]to your property rights

0:01:31.034,0:01:33.282
most people have never even heard of.

0:01:33.306,0:01:36.194
It's called "civil forfeiture."

0:01:37.109,0:01:40.105
Most of you are generally aware[br]of criminal forfeiture,

0:01:40.129,0:01:42.714
although the term itself[br]might be a little unfamiliar,

0:01:42.738,0:01:44.372
so let's begin with forfeiture.

0:01:45.206,0:01:47.786
When we forfeit something,[br]we give up that thing,

0:01:47.810,0:01:49.461
or we're forced to give it up.

0:01:50.093,0:01:51.766
In criminal forfeiture,

0:01:51.790,0:01:54.870
someone is charged[br]and convicted of a crime,

0:01:54.894,0:01:59.177
and therefore, they have to give up[br]property related to that crime.

0:01:59.201,0:02:04.215
For example, suppose you use your car[br]to transport and deal drugs.

0:02:04.239,0:02:06.553
You're caught and convicted;

0:02:06.577,0:02:09.626
now you have to give up[br]or forfeit your car

0:02:09.650,0:02:11.253
as part of the sentencing.

0:02:11.661,0:02:13.961
That's criminal forfeiture.

0:02:14.998,0:02:20.485
But in civil forfeiture,[br]no person is charged with a crime --

0:02:20.509,0:02:25.026
the property is charged[br]and convicted of a crime.

0:02:25.050,0:02:26.315
(Laughter)

0:02:26.339,0:02:27.925
You heard that correctly:

0:02:27.949,0:02:32.753
the government actually convicts[br]an inanimate object with a crime.

0:02:33.628,0:02:36.763
It's as if that thing itself[br]committed the crime.

0:02:37.227,0:02:41.952
That's why civil forfeiture cases[br]have these really peculiar names,

0:02:41.976,0:02:47.548
like, "The United States of America[br]v. One 1990 Ford Thunderbird."

0:02:47.572,0:02:49.363
(Laughter)

0:02:49.713,0:02:55.061
Or "The State of Oklahoma[br]v. 53,234 Dollars in Cash."

0:02:55.085,0:02:56.179
(Laughter)

0:02:56.203,0:02:58.186
Or my personal favorite:

0:02:58.210,0:03:02.065
"The United States of America[br]v. One Solid Gold Object

0:03:02.089,0:03:04.017
in the Form of a Rooster."

0:03:04.041,0:03:07.307
(Laughter)

0:03:08.029,0:03:09.180
Now, you're thinking:

0:03:09.204,0:03:11.200
How does something like this happen?

0:03:11.665,0:03:15.247
That's exactly what I said when[br]I first learned about civil forfeiture

0:03:15.271,0:03:17.791
while on a road trip with my wife.

0:03:17.815,0:03:19.559
No, we did not get pulled over.

0:03:19.583,0:03:20.615
(Laughter)

0:03:20.639,0:03:23.115
I was reading about[br]the history of civil forfeiture

0:03:23.139,0:03:26.575
as part of my work as a research[br]director at the law firm,

0:03:26.599,0:03:29.495
and I came across[br]one of the cases I just mentioned,

0:03:29.519,0:03:33.464
"The United States of America[br]v. One 1990 Ford Thunderbird."

0:03:34.082,0:03:38.497
In that case, Carol Thomas[br]loaned her car to her son.

0:03:39.353,0:03:42.920
While in the car, her son committed[br]a minor drug crime.

0:03:43.507,0:03:45.996
Carol didn't commit any crime,

0:03:46.020,0:03:49.739
so law enforcement couldn't[br]convict her and take the car,

0:03:49.763,0:03:52.743
but they could -- and did --

0:03:52.767,0:03:57.582
use civil forfeiture[br]to "convict the car" and take it.

0:03:58.581,0:04:02.054
Carol was completely innocent,[br]but she lost her car nonetheless.

0:04:02.078,0:04:03.229
In other words,

0:04:03.253,0:04:06.768
she was punished for a crime[br]she did not commit.

0:04:07.671,0:04:11.384
When I read this, I was gobsmacked.

0:04:12.431,0:04:13.582
How could this occur?

0:04:13.606,0:04:15.534
How is this even legal?

0:04:16.794,0:04:19.612
It turns out, it began in our country[br]with maritime law.

0:04:19.636,0:04:23.225
Early in our republic, the government[br]sought to fight piracy --

0:04:23.249,0:04:24.968
yes, actual pirates.

0:04:25.581,0:04:29.186
The problem was the government[br]often couldn't catch the pirates,

0:04:29.210,0:04:33.069
so instead it used civil forfeiture[br]to convict the pirates' property

0:04:33.093,0:04:34.251
and take it,

0:04:34.275,0:04:37.418
and therefore deny the pirates[br]their illegal profits.

0:04:38.041,0:04:41.188
Of course, the government could've simply[br]taken and kept the booty

0:04:41.212,0:04:43.697
without necessarily[br]using civil forfeiture,

0:04:43.721,0:04:45.412
but doing so would have violated

0:04:45.436,0:04:48.792
our most basic due process[br]and property rights.

0:04:49.595,0:04:54.460
Now, the government rarely used[br]civil forfeiture until the 1980s

0:04:54.484,0:04:57.489
and the war on drugs.

0:04:59.000,0:05:02.656
We expanded civil forfeiture law[br]to cover drug crimes

0:05:02.680,0:05:04.800
and then later, other types of crime.

0:05:05.486,0:05:08.949
Canada and the European Union[br]adopted similar provisions

0:05:08.973,0:05:14.040
so that now all kinds of people[br]are ensnared in the forfeiture web,

0:05:14.064,0:05:16.717
people like Russ Caswell.

0:05:18.091,0:05:22.943
Russ Caswell owned a small budget motel[br]in Tewksbury, Massachusetts.

0:05:22.967,0:05:28.470
His father built the motel in 1955,[br]and Russ took it over in the 1980s.

0:05:29.175,0:05:32.000
During the years[br]that Russ owned the motel,

0:05:32.024,0:05:34.939
from time to time,[br]people would rent rooms,

0:05:34.963,0:05:36.898
and they would commit drug crimes.

0:05:37.521,0:05:39.718
Russ didn't condone the activities --

0:05:39.742,0:05:43.219
in fact, whenever he found out about it,[br]he would immediately call police.

0:05:43.688,0:05:46.969
Russ was entirely innocent of any crime,

0:05:46.993,0:05:51.621
but that did not stop the US Department[br]of Justice from seizing his motel

0:05:51.645,0:05:55.261
simply because other people[br]committed crimes there.

0:05:56.414,0:05:58.409
But Russ's case was not alone.

0:05:59.029,0:06:02.048
Between 1997 and 2016,

0:06:02.072,0:06:08.663
the US Department of Justice[br]took more than 635,000 properties.

0:06:09.872,0:06:11.361
This means each year,

0:06:11.385,0:06:13.752
tens of thousands of people[br]lose their properties

0:06:13.776,0:06:17.253
in cases in which they're never charged[br]or convicted of any crime.

0:06:17.277,0:06:21.964
And we're not necessarily talking about[br]major drug kingpins

0:06:21.988,0:06:25.216
or headline-grabbing financial fraudsters

0:06:25.240,0:06:28.843
whose cases involve hundreds of thousands[br]if not millions of dollars.

0:06:29.251,0:06:32.962
Many of these seizures and forfeitures[br]involve just everyday people

0:06:32.986,0:06:34.376
like Russ Caswell

0:06:34.400,0:06:35.555
or you

0:06:35.579,0:06:36.729
or me.

0:06:37.470,0:06:38.953
But it gets worse.

0:06:39.743,0:06:40.995
Are you wondering:

0:06:41.019,0:06:44.035
Where does all this cash[br]and property end up?

0:06:45.515,0:06:48.228
In most places, law enforcement keeps it.

0:06:48.769,0:06:51.616
And they use it to buy equipment

0:06:51.640,0:06:54.102
or pay for building repairs

0:06:54.126,0:06:56.912
or even pay salaries and overtime.

0:06:58.028,0:07:00.494
This is a clear conflict of interest.

0:07:00.518,0:07:05.021
It creates a perverse profit incentive[br]that can distort law enforcement.

0:07:05.471,0:07:09.329
And this is a problem that's not lost[br]on those in law enforcement, either.

0:07:09.860,0:07:13.003
Former chief of police in Rochester,[br]Minnesota, Roger Peterson,

0:07:13.027,0:07:16.233
described the choice[br]that police officers often face.

0:07:16.933,0:07:18.083
As he described it:

0:07:18.107,0:07:20.356
suppose I'm a police officer,

0:07:20.380,0:07:21.936
and I see a drug deal.

0:07:22.723,0:07:24.458
Now I face a choice:

0:07:25.239,0:07:30.546
Do I go after the buyer[br]and remove from the street illegal drugs,

0:07:30.570,0:07:34.336
or do I go after the seller

0:07:34.360,0:07:37.550
and get cash for my agency to use?

0:07:38.465,0:07:42.022
So it's easy to see why[br]a police officer might go for the cash.

0:07:43.005,0:07:44.842
It was just such a circumstance

0:07:44.866,0:07:50.345
that compelled police officers[br]in Philadelphia to seize an entire house.

0:07:51.262,0:07:58.260
In 2014, Chris and Markela Sourovelis' son[br]sold 40 dollars worth of drugs

0:07:58.284,0:08:00.388
down the street from their house.

0:08:01.128,0:08:03.764
Forty dollars.

0:08:05.150,0:08:07.178
The police watched the deal go down.

0:08:08.420,0:08:11.680
They could've arrested the buyer[br]and confiscated the drugs,

0:08:11.704,0:08:13.090
but they didn't.

0:08:13.826,0:08:15.989
They could've arrested[br]the Sourovelises' son

0:08:16.013,0:08:17.429
right there on the street

0:08:17.453,0:08:19.312
and grabbed 40 dollars.

0:08:20.017,0:08:21.209
But they didn't.

0:08:21.991,0:08:24.207
They waited to arrest him at home,

0:08:24.231,0:08:27.298
because then they could seize[br]their entire house.

0:08:28.567,0:08:31.933
The house was worth 350,000 dollars.

0:08:32.532,0:08:36.481
That is what I mean[br]by a perverse profit incentive.

0:08:37.668,0:08:40.630
But the Sourovelises' case was no outlier.

0:08:41.702,0:08:44.798
Philadelphia, the "City[br]of Brotherly Love,"

0:08:44.822,0:08:46.192
the "Athens of America,"

0:08:46.216,0:08:49.079
the "Cradle of Liberty,"[br]birthplace to the Constitution,

0:08:49.103,0:08:51.501
home to the Liberty Bell[br]and Independence Hall,

0:08:51.525,0:08:53.266
the "City that Loves you Back" --

0:08:53.766,0:08:55.160
(Laughter)

0:08:55.593,0:09:00.306
that Philadelphia was running[br]a forfeiture machine.

0:09:01.423,0:09:04.593
Between 2002 and 2016,

0:09:04.617,0:09:10.286
Philadelphia took more than 77 million[br]dollars through forfeiture,

0:09:10.310,0:09:14.051
including 1,200 homes.

0:09:14.931,0:09:18.405
Cars, jewelry, electronics --[br]all of it they sold,

0:09:18.429,0:09:19.738
the proceeds they kept.

0:09:19.762,0:09:21.831
And they would have[br]kept right on doing it,

0:09:21.855,0:09:24.256
had it not been[br]for a class-action lawsuit --

0:09:24.280,0:09:26.866
our team's class-action lawsuit --

0:09:26.890,0:09:33.088
(Applause and cheers)

0:09:35.572,0:09:36.831
Thank you.

0:09:36.855,0:09:39.406
We forced them to change[br]their forfeiture practices

0:09:39.430,0:09:41.659
and to compensate victims.

0:09:42.483,0:09:46.785
(Applause and cheers)

0:09:47.640,0:09:51.629
When our team first began[br]researching forfeiture in 2007,

0:09:51.653,0:09:55.104
we had no idea how much[br]forfeiture revenue there was.

0:09:55.128,0:09:56.507
In fact, no one knew.

0:09:57.182,0:10:00.960
It wasn't until our groundbreaking study,[br]"Policing for Profit,"

0:10:00.984,0:10:05.084
that we found federal law[br]enforcement agencies have taken in

0:10:05.108,0:10:08.439
almost 40 billion dollars --

0:10:08.463,0:10:10.272
billion with a B --

0:10:10.296,0:10:12.077
since 2001,

0:10:12.984,0:10:16.723
more than 80 percent of that[br]through civil forfeiture.

0:10:17.932,0:10:19.828
Unfortunately, we have no idea

0:10:19.852,0:10:22.201
how much state and local[br]agencies have taken in,

0:10:22.225,0:10:25.358
because in many states,[br]they don't have to report it.

0:10:26.514,0:10:28.713
So until we reform forfeiture,

0:10:28.737,0:10:32.310
we'll never know how much[br]forfeiture activity actually occurs

0:10:32.334,0:10:33.699
in the United States.

0:10:33.723,0:10:36.819
And we desperately need reform.

0:10:37.429,0:10:40.849
Legislatures should abolish[br]civil forfeiture

0:10:40.873,0:10:43.459
and replace it with criminal forfeiture.

0:10:43.855,0:10:47.292
And all forfeiture proceeds[br]should go to a neutral fund

0:10:47.316,0:10:49.235
such as a general fund.

0:10:49.638,0:10:53.811
When forfeiture proceeds stop hitting[br]law enforcement budgets directly,

0:10:53.835,0:10:56.950
that is when we will end[br]policing for profit.

0:10:58.479,0:11:03.628
(Applause)

0:11:05.056,0:11:07.234
Now, as you can imagine,

0:11:08.131,0:11:11.768
law enforcement officials[br]don't love these recommendations.

0:11:11.792,0:11:13.300
(Laughter)

0:11:13.324,0:11:15.764
They stand to lose a lot of money,

0:11:15.788,0:11:20.615
and they believe civil forfeiture[br]is an effective crime-fighting tool.

0:11:21.135,0:11:22.616
The trouble is,

0:11:22.640,0:11:23.838
it's not.

0:11:24.765,0:11:27.129
In June 2019, we released a study

0:11:27.153,0:11:31.367
that found forfeiture does not[br]improve crime-fighting.

0:11:31.888,0:11:33.607
And the report also found

0:11:33.631,0:11:37.423
that law enforcement agencies[br]pursue more forfeiture money

0:11:37.447,0:11:39.399
during economic downturns.

0:11:40.007,0:11:43.034
So when city and county budgets are tight,

0:11:43.058,0:11:46.821
law enforcement will use forfeiture[br]to find the money.

0:11:46.845,0:11:48.469
So it's no wonder, then,

0:11:48.493,0:11:53.036
that law enforcement officials[br]predict a criminal apocalypse --

0:11:53.060,0:11:54.187
(Laughter)

0:11:54.211,0:11:56.377
if these reforms are adopted.

0:11:57.022,0:11:59.345
But some states have[br]already implemented them,

0:11:59.369,0:12:02.122
and we're pushing for reform[br]all across the country,

0:12:02.146,0:12:05.909
because until we reform forfeiture,

0:12:05.933,0:12:08.299
this is something that could[br]happen to any of us.

0:12:08.712,0:12:10.586
It can happen in the United States,

0:12:10.610,0:12:12.775
it can happen in the United Kingdom,

0:12:12.799,0:12:15.752
it can happen in countries[br]throughout the European Union

0:12:15.776,0:12:16.958
and beyond.

0:12:17.354,0:12:21.024
People like you and me[br]and the Sourovelises and Russ Caswell,

0:12:21.048,0:12:24.413
just doing the everyday stuff of life,

0:12:24.437,0:12:28.286
can be caught in a scheme[br]we never thought possible.

0:12:28.732,0:12:32.515
It is time we end policing for profit

0:12:32.539,0:12:34.610
once and for all.

0:12:34.957,0:12:36.123
Thank you.

0:12:36.147,0:12:39.779
(Applause and cheers)