0:00:00.906,0:00:04.157
Picture yourself driving[br]down the road tomorrow,

0:00:04.157,0:00:08.101
heading somewhere to buy[br]an item you found on Craigslist.

0:00:09.044,0:00:12.389
Perhaps a nice mountain[br]bike for 3,000 dollars.

0:00:13.332,0:00:14.355
At that price,

0:00:14.355,0:00:17.707
it's probably one of those bikes[br]with a little electric motor on it --

0:00:17.707,0:00:18.714
(Laughter)

0:00:18.714,0:00:20.806
maybe some streamers from the handle bars.

0:00:20.806,0:00:21.809
(Laughter)

0:00:22.280,0:00:25.084
The sellers declared[br]this a "cash only" deal,

0:00:25.084,0:00:29.425
so you have, in the console[br]of your car, 3,000 dollars.

0:00:29.593,0:00:32.466
Suddenly you are pulled over.

0:00:33.163,0:00:35.495
During the stop the officer asks,

0:00:35.495,0:00:40.736
"Do you have any drugs, weapons[br]or large amounts of cash in your car?"

0:00:42.272,0:00:43.970
You truthfully answer, "yes,"

0:00:43.970,0:00:45.789
not to the drugs or to the weapons,

0:00:45.789,0:00:47.023
but to the cash.

0:00:47.626,0:00:48.855
In the blink of an eye,

0:00:48.855,0:00:51.178
you are ordered out of your car.

0:00:52.033,0:00:55.188
The officer searches[br]it and finds your cash.

0:00:56.371,0:01:01.477
On the spot, he seizes it and he says[br]he suspects it's part of a drug crime.

0:01:02.372,0:01:03.549
A few days later,

0:01:03.549,0:01:07.397
the local district attorney files[br]paperwork to keep your money ...

0:01:07.397,0:01:08.630
permanently.

0:01:09.165,0:01:10.481
And all of this happens

0:01:10.481,0:01:14.430
without you ever being charged[br]or convicted of any crime.

0:01:15.026,0:01:16.197
Now you might be saying,

0:01:16.197,0:01:19.496
"Ach, this would never[br]happen in the United States."

0:01:20.293,0:01:23.578
(Laughter)

0:01:24.172,0:01:27.623
Incidents like this occur[br]every day in our country.

0:01:28.007,0:01:31.092
It's one of the most significant[br]threats to your property rights

0:01:31.092,0:01:33.227
most people have never even heard of.

0:01:33.227,0:01:36.115
It's called civil forfeiture.

0:01:37.025,0:01:40.129
Most of you are generally aware[br]of criminal forfeiture,

0:01:40.129,0:01:42.780
although the term itself[br]might be a little unfamiliar,

0:01:42.780,0:01:44.510
so let's begin with forfeiture.

0:01:45.341,0:01:47.874
When we forfeit something[br]we give up that thing

0:01:47.874,0:01:49.777
or we're forced to give it up.

0:01:50.125,0:01:51.933
In criminal forfeiture,

0:01:51.933,0:01:55.036
someone is charged[br]and convicted of a crime

0:01:55.036,0:01:59.036
and therefore they have to give up[br]property related to that crime.

0:01:59.432,0:02:04.351
For example, suppose you use your car[br]to transport and deal drugs.

0:02:04.351,0:02:06.740
You're caught and convicted;

0:02:06.740,0:02:09.801
now you have to give up[br]or forfeit your car

0:02:09.801,0:02:11.464
as part of the sentencing.

0:02:11.733,0:02:14.033
That's criminal forfeiture.

0:02:15.134,0:02:16.818
But in civil forfeiture,

0:02:16.818,0:02:20.668
no person is charged with a crime ...

0:02:20.668,0:02:24.954
the property is charged[br]and convicted of a crime.

0:02:25.208,0:02:26.360
(Murmuring)

0:02:26.442,0:02:27.892
You heard that correctly.

0:02:28.241,0:02:32.244
The government actually convicts[br]an inanimate object with a crime.

0:02:33.946,0:02:36.889
It's as if that thing itself[br]committed the crime.

0:02:37.378,0:02:42.063
That's why civil forfeiture cases[br]have these really peculiar names

0:02:42.063,0:02:47.345
like "The United States of America[br]v. One 1990 Ford Thunderbird."

0:02:47.742,0:02:49.533
(Laughter)

0:02:49.903,0:02:55.085
Or "The State of Oklahoma[br]v. 53,234 Dollars Cash."

0:02:55.085,0:02:56.271
(Laughter)

0:02:56.271,0:02:58.210
Or my personal favorite:

0:02:58.210,0:03:02.089
"The United States of America[br]v. One Solid Gold Object

0:03:02.089,0:03:04.041
in the Form of a Rooster."

0:03:04.041,0:03:07.667
(Laughter)

0:03:08.184,0:03:09.323
Now you're thinking:

0:03:09.323,0:03:11.319
how does something like this happen?

0:03:11.808,0:03:13.341
That's exactly what I said

0:03:13.341,0:03:15.458
when I first learned[br]about civil forfeiture

0:03:15.468,0:03:17.815
while one a road trip with my wife.

0:03:17.815,0:03:19.910
No, we did not get pulled over --

0:03:19.910,0:03:20.914
(Laughter)

0:03:20.914,0:03:23.326
I was reading about the history[br]of civil forfeiture

0:03:23.326,0:03:26.719
as part of my work as a research[br]director at the law firm,

0:03:26.719,0:03:29.806
and I came across one of the cases[br]I just mentioned,

0:03:29.806,0:03:33.560
"The United States of America[br]v. One 1990 Ford Thunderbird."

0:03:34.241,0:03:38.656
In that case, Carol Thomas[br]loaned her car to her son.

0:03:39.386,0:03:42.892
While in the car, her son committed[br]a minor drug crime.

0:03:43.459,0:03:46.020
Carol didn't commit any crime,

0:03:46.020,0:03:50.071
so law enforcement couldn't[br]convict her and take the car,

0:03:50.071,0:03:51.332
but they could --

0:03:51.332,0:03:52.917
and did --

0:03:52.917,0:03:57.582
use civil forfeiture[br]to "convict the car" and take it.

0:03:58.709,0:04:02.002
Carol was completely innocent[br]but she lost her car nonetheless.

0:04:02.142,0:04:03.282
In other words,

0:04:03.282,0:04:06.637
she was punished for a crime[br]she did not commit.

0:04:07.727,0:04:11.440
When I read this I was gobsmacked.

0:04:12.297,0:04:13.799
How could this occur?

0:04:13.799,0:04:15.640
How is this even legal?

0:04:16.794,0:04:19.611
It turns out it began in our country[br]with maritime law.

0:04:19.829,0:04:23.498
Early in our republic, the government[br]sought to fight piracy --

0:04:23.498,0:04:25.299
yes, actual pirates.

0:04:25.581,0:04:29.447
The problem was the government[br]often couldn't catch the pirates,

0:04:29.447,0:04:33.299
so instead it used civil forfeiture[br]to convict the pirates' property

0:04:33.299,0:04:34.614
and take it,

0:04:34.614,0:04:37.418
and therefore deny the pirates[br]their illegal profits.

0:04:38.145,0:04:41.315
Of course, the government[br]could've simply taken and kept the booty

0:04:41.315,0:04:43.966
without necessarily[br]using civil forfeiture,

0:04:43.966,0:04:45.582
but doing so would've violated

0:04:45.582,0:04:48.938
our most basic due process[br]and property rights.

0:04:49.849,0:04:54.737
Now the government rarely used[br]civil forfeiture until the 1980s

0:04:54.737,0:04:57.562
and the war on drugs.

0:04:59.041,0:05:03.004
We expanded civil forfeiture law[br]to cover drug crimes,

0:05:03.004,0:05:05.124
and then later, other types of crime.

0:05:05.486,0:05:09.238
Canada and the European Union[br]adopted similar provisions

0:05:09.238,0:05:13.795
so that now all kinds of people[br]are ensnared in the forfeiture web.

0:05:14.183,0:05:16.836
People like Russ Caswell.

0:05:18.282,0:05:22.749
Russ Caswell owned a small,[br]budget motel in Tewksbury, Massachusetts.

0:05:23.174,0:05:28.457
His father built the motel in 1955[br]and Russ took it over in the 1980s.

0:05:29.175,0:05:32.090
During the years that Russ[br]owned the motel,

0:05:32.090,0:05:33.424
from time to time,

0:05:33.424,0:05:36.770
people would rent rooms[br]and they would commit drug crimes.

0:05:37.704,0:05:39.924
Russ didn't condone the activities --

0:05:39.924,0:05:43.397
in fact, whenever he found out about it,[br]he would immediately call police.

0:05:43.816,0:05:47.017
Russ was entirely innocent of any crime,

0:05:47.017,0:05:51.880
but that did not stop the US Department[br]of Justice from seizing his motel

0:05:51.880,0:05:55.261
simply because other people[br]committed crimes there.

0:05:56.676,0:05:58.671
But Russ' case was not alone.

0:05:59.292,0:06:02.380
Between 1997 and 2016,

0:06:02.380,0:06:08.660
the US Department of Justice[br]took more than 635,000 properties.

0:06:09.872,0:06:11.541
This means each year,

0:06:11.541,0:06:13.829
tens of thousands of people[br]lose their properties

0:06:13.829,0:06:17.277
in cases in which they're never charged[br]of convicted of any crime.

0:06:17.277,0:06:19.057
And we're not talking about --

0:06:19.057,0:06:21.930
not necessarily talking about[br]major drug kingpins

0:06:21.930,0:06:25.389
or headline-grabbing financial fraudsters

0:06:25.389,0:06:29.212
whose cases involve hundreds[br]of thousands if not millions of dollars.

0:06:29.450,0:06:33.066
Many of these seizures and forfeitures[br]involve just everyday people

0:06:33.066,0:06:34.585
like Russ Caswell,

0:06:34.585,0:06:35.737
or you,

0:06:35.738,0:06:36.804
or me.

0:06:37.574,0:06:39.057
But it gets worse.

0:06:39.743,0:06:41.019
Are you wondering,

0:06:41.019,0:06:44.035
where does all this cash[br]and property end up?

0:06:45.772,0:06:48.410
In most places, law enforcement keeps it.

0:06:48.936,0:06:51.955
And they use it to buy equipment,

0:06:51.955,0:06:54.126
or pay for building repairs,

0:06:54.126,0:06:57.194
or even pay salaries and overtime.

0:06:58.115,0:07:00.604
This is a clear conflict of interest.

0:07:00.604,0:07:02.493
It creates a perverse profit incentive

0:07:02.493,0:07:05.062
that can distort law enforcement.

0:07:05.543,0:07:09.295
And this is a problem that's not lost[br]on those in law enforcement either.

0:07:09.779,0:07:11.985
Former chief of police[br]in Rochester, Minnesota,

0:07:11.985,0:07:12.991
Roger Peterson,

0:07:12.991,0:07:16.305
described the choice[br]that police officers often face.

0:07:17.095,0:07:18.107
As he described it,

0:07:18.107,0:07:21.954
suppose I'm a police officer[br]and I see a drug deal.

0:07:22.969,0:07:25.414
Now I face a choice:

0:07:25.414,0:07:27.692
do I go after the buyer

0:07:27.692,0:07:30.761
and remove from the street illegal drugs,

0:07:30.761,0:07:34.550
or do I go after the seller

0:07:34.550,0:07:37.340
and get cash for my agency to use?

0:07:38.608,0:07:41.986
So it's easy to see why[br]a police officer might go for the cash.

0:07:43.149,0:07:45.009
It was just such a circumstance

0:07:45.009,0:07:47.293
that compelled police officers[br]in Philadelphia

0:07:47.293,0:07:50.330
to seize an entire house.

0:07:51.138,0:07:56.135
In 2014, Chris and Markela Sourovelis' son

0:07:56.135,0:07:58.364
sold 40 dollars worth of drugs

0:07:58.364,0:08:00.468
down the street from their house.

0:08:01.264,0:08:03.900
40 dollars.

0:08:05.150,0:08:07.460
The police watched the deal go down.

0:08:08.532,0:08:11.815
They could've arrested the buyer[br]and confiscated the drugs ...

0:08:11.815,0:08:13.201
but they didn't.

0:08:13.978,0:08:17.695
They could've arrested the Sourovelis' son[br]right there on the street

0:08:17.695,0:08:20.136
and grabbed 40 dollars ...

0:08:20.136,0:08:21.583
but they didn't.

0:08:22.198,0:08:24.398
They waited to arrest him at home

0:08:24.398,0:08:27.465
because then they could seize[br]their entire house.

0:08:28.607,0:08:31.973
The house was worth 350,000 dollars.

0:08:32.532,0:08:36.481
That is what I mean[br]by a perverse profit incentive.

0:08:37.740,0:08:40.702
But the Sourovelis' case was no outlier.

0:08:41.766,0:08:44.997
Philadelphia, the "City[br]of Brotherly Love,"

0:08:44.997,0:08:46.264
the "Athens of America,"

0:08:46.264,0:08:47.464
the "cradle of liberty,"

0:08:47.464,0:08:49.309
birthplace to the Constitution,

0:08:49.309,0:08:51.714
home to the Liberty Bell[br]and Independence Hall,

0:08:51.714,0:08:53.764
the "City that loves you back" --

0:08:53.764,0:08:55.752
(Laughter)

0:08:55.752,0:09:00.465
that Philadelphia was running[br]a forfeiture machine.

0:09:01.423,0:09:04.832
Between 2002 and 2016

0:09:04.832,0:09:10.531
Philadelphia took more than 77 million[br]dollars through forfeiture,

0:09:10.531,0:09:14.232
including 1200 homes.

0:09:15.146,0:09:17.399
Cars, jewelry, electronics --

0:09:17.399,0:09:18.698
all of it they sold,

0:09:18.698,0:09:19.983
the proceeds they kept,

0:09:19.983,0:09:22.083
and they would've kept right on doing it

0:09:22.083,0:09:24.465
had it not been[br]for a class-action lawsuit --

0:09:24.465,0:09:26.890
our team's class-action lawsuit --

0:09:26.890,0:09:33.088
(Applause and cheers)

0:09:35.538,0:09:36.855
Thank you.

0:09:36.855,0:09:39.478
We forced them to change[br]their forfeiture practices

0:09:39.478,0:09:41.659
and to compensate victims.

0:09:42.483,0:09:47.081
(Applause and cheers)

0:09:47.832,0:09:51.744
When our team first began[br]researching forfeiture in 2007,

0:09:51.744,0:09:55.244
we had no idea how much[br]forfeiture revenue there was.

0:09:55.244,0:09:56.623
In fact, no one knew.

0:09:57.182,0:09:59.586
It wasn't until our groundbreaking study,

0:09:59.586,0:10:01.302
"Policing for Profit"

0:10:01.302,0:10:05.242
that we found federal law[br]enforcement agencies have taken in

0:10:05.242,0:10:08.570
almost 40 billion dollars --

0:10:08.570,0:10:10.509
billion with a b --

0:10:10.509,0:10:12.342
since 2001.

0:10:13.111,0:10:16.850
More than 80 percent of that[br]through civil forfeiture.

0:10:17.932,0:10:20.028
Unfortunately we have no idea

0:10:20.028,0:10:22.262
how much state and local[br]agencies have taken in

0:10:22.262,0:10:23.854
because in many states,

0:10:23.854,0:10:25.769
they don't have to report it.

0:10:26.641,0:10:29.014
So until we reform forfeiture,

0:10:29.014,0:10:32.334
we'll never know how much[br]forfeiture activity actually occurs

0:10:32.334,0:10:33.854
in the United States.

0:10:33.854,0:10:36.819
And we desperately need reform.

0:10:37.540,0:10:40.983
Legislatures should[br]abolish civil forfeiture

0:10:40.983,0:10:43.814
and replace it with criminal forfeiture.

0:10:43.814,0:10:47.316
And all forfeiture proceeds[br]should go to neutral fund

0:10:47.316,0:10:49.467
such as a general fund.

0:10:49.773,0:10:53.835
When forfeiture proceeds stop hitting[br]law enforcement budgets directly,

0:10:53.835,0:10:57.176
that is when we will end[br]policing for profit.

0:10:58.479,0:11:03.628
(Applause)

0:11:05.056,0:11:08.243
Now as you can imagine,

0:11:08.243,0:11:11.890
law enforcement officials[br]don't love these recommendations.

0:11:11.946,0:11:13.214
(Laughter)

0:11:13.430,0:11:15.901
They stand to lose a lot of money,

0:11:15.901,0:11:20.615
and they believe civil forfeiture[br]is an effective crime-fighting tool.

0:11:21.334,0:11:23.935
The trouble is, it's not.

0:11:24.765,0:11:27.341
In June 2019, we released a study

0:11:27.341,0:11:31.367
that found forfeiture does not[br]improve crime-fighting.

0:11:31.985,0:11:36.133
And the report also found[br]that law enforcement agencies pursue

0:11:36.133,0:11:39.295
more forfeiture money[br]during economic downturns.

0:11:40.094,0:11:43.275
So when city and county budgets are tight,

0:11:43.275,0:11:46.698
law enforcement will use[br]forfeiture to find the money.

0:11:46.949,0:11:48.793
So it's no wonder then

0:11:48.793,0:11:53.395
that law enforcement officials[br]predict a "criminal apocolypse" --

0:11:53.395,0:11:54.398
(Laughter)

0:11:54.398,0:11:56.377
if these reforms are adopted.

0:11:57.197,0:11:59.543
But some states have[br]already implemented them,

0:11:59.543,0:12:02.194
and we're pushing for reform[br]all across the country

0:12:02.194,0:12:06.071
because until we reform forfeiture,

0:12:06.071,0:12:08.647
this is something that could[br]happen to any of us.

0:12:08.647,0:12:10.763
It can happen in the United States,

0:12:10.763,0:12:12.902
it can happen in the United Kingdom,

0:12:12.902,0:12:15.878
it can happen in countries[br]throughout the European Union

0:12:15.878,0:12:17.178
and beyond.

0:12:17.529,0:12:19.144
People like you and me

0:12:19.144,0:12:20.094
and the Sourvellis'

0:12:20.094,0:12:21.229
and Russ Caswell,

0:12:21.229,0:12:24.614
just doing the everyday stuff of life,

0:12:24.614,0:12:28.463
can be caught in a scheme[br]we never thought possible.

0:12:28.796,0:12:32.768
It is time we end policing for profit

0:12:32.768,0:12:34.863
once and for all.

0:12:34.863,0:12:36.223
Thank you.

0:12:36.223,0:12:39.855
(Applause and cheers)