0:00:13.710,0:00:15.520
[ ELI SUDBRACK ][br]All of this,

0:00:15.520,0:00:17.560
the work in general,

0:00:17.560,0:00:18.919
it's about being free.

0:00:20.386,0:00:23.340
You should express yourself[br]the way you want it to be.

0:00:23.800,0:00:27.405
Go after things in your life[br]that bring you pleasure.

0:00:30.120,0:00:32.960
Gay politics,[br]human right politics, whatever,

0:00:32.960,0:00:35.362
it's always about being free.

0:00:42.400,0:00:44.760
We're making a series[br]of 58 drawings

0:00:44.760,0:00:48.160
for this art fair in Sao Paulo.

0:00:48.160,0:00:50.135
So this was my proposal email.

0:00:52.040,0:00:55.680
Me and Christophe are making[br]cyclops trannies portraits.

0:00:55.680,0:00:58.253
Trannies–[br]transvestites– portraits.

0:00:59.720,0:01:00.600
[ CHRISTOPHE HAMAIDE-PIERSON ] [br]We had the concept,

0:01:00.600,0:01:04.000
"Okay, let's make all these[br]portrait of cyclop trannies."

0:01:04.000,0:01:05.512
We had to work separately.

0:01:06.760,0:01:09.360
One of these few project[br]where, actually,

0:01:09.360,0:01:11.140
I did 20-something drawings,

0:01:11.140,0:01:14.120
and he did, like, 20 other,[br]like, something drawing.

0:01:14.120,0:01:16.160
and then they were all, like,[br]framed together

0:01:16.160,0:01:17.617
and displayed on the wall.

0:01:19.040,0:01:21.800
I always like this thing[br]of leaving your ego behind

0:01:21.800,0:01:23.343
and merge with other people.

0:01:23.343,0:01:25.520
I think that's something[br]quite magical.

0:01:25.520,0:01:27.519
I love this idea[br]of collaboration.

0:01:30.520,0:01:34.320
In 2005, we were invited[br]to be part of this big show

0:01:34.320,0:01:36.249
for the L.A. MOCA.

0:01:36.840,0:01:40.888
This is the first ever project[br]that we did together, full-on.

0:01:41.720,0:01:43.400
We conceive everything together,

0:01:43.400,0:01:46.860
so that was always driven[br]by this collaborative dynamic.

0:01:50.473,0:01:51.640
We spent three months[br]in L.A.,

0:01:51.640,0:01:53.680
and it was also during[br]the Bush administration

0:01:53.680,0:01:56.840
and there was all these thing[br]going on with Scientology.

0:01:56.840,0:02:00.488
And so we decided to connect[br]all this different information

0:02:01.120,0:02:03.442
for that installation.

0:02:06.880,0:02:11.960
We decided to turn[br]all of the museum into a disco

0:02:11.960,0:02:15.800
and wanted the disco to actually[br]function as a nightclub

0:02:15.800,0:02:17.500
during the course of the show.

0:02:18.266,0:02:20.080
[ ELI SUDBRACK ][br]This disco was an homage

0:02:20.080,0:02:23.960
to the birth of gay rights[br]in America,

0:02:23.960,0:02:26.480
which, a lot of it happened[br]in the disco space,

0:02:26.480,0:02:29.480
like this communion, you know,[br]of people of the same sex,

0:02:29.480,0:02:33.200
and, like, quite often,[br]very hedonistic,

0:02:33.200,0:02:36.080
but also, there was a lot[br]of politics happening

0:02:36.080,0:02:37.240
at that–[br]in that environment.

0:02:37.240,0:02:37.960
That was the first time

0:02:37.960,0:02:41.320
we actually worked[br]with this tranny symbol.

0:02:41.320,0:02:42.960
We want to turn everybody[br]into trannies,

0:02:42.960,0:02:44.360
so we gave out [br]the tranny masks

0:02:44.360,0:02:46.520
with these pictures[br]that another friend of ours took

0:02:46.520,0:02:48.880
of these trannies from Paris.

0:02:48.880,0:02:51.720
These masks–they have[br]this special lenses

0:02:51.720,0:02:54.440
that multiply the amount[br]of light spots.

0:02:54.440,0:02:55.720
People were fascinated,

0:02:55.720,0:02:57.600
because once they put[br]the mask on,

0:02:57.600,0:03:00.000
they would see all these[br]different colors

0:03:00.000,0:03:02.357
and different shapes.

0:03:18.677,0:03:21.520
[indistinct conversations]

0:03:21.520,0:03:23.249
- Remember I was doing,[br]like, the thing with–

0:03:24.040,0:03:27.775
pumping the ink from the thing? [br]- Yeah, yeah.

0:03:27.775,0:03:29.658
- That's what this was.

0:03:29.658,0:03:32.235
- Oh.[br]- That's where that came.

0:03:36.680,0:03:37.420
Can you tell which ones[br]are mine

0:03:37.420,0:03:38.631
and which ones[br]are Christophe's?

0:03:38.631,0:03:39.920
- Um...[br]- I think it's a bit obvious.

0:03:39.920,0:03:40.782
But I'm not sure people--

0:03:40.782,0:03:42.358
- This is Christophe.[br]- Yeah.

0:03:45.373,0:03:47.510
- This is you.[br]- Yeah.

0:03:47.510,0:03:49.760
- Christophe, Christophe...[br]- Yeah.

0:03:49.760,0:03:52.240
- Christophe. You?

0:03:52.240,0:03:53.840
- Yeah.

0:03:53.840,0:03:55.520
The thing is, I--[br]- You're more...

0:03:55.520,0:03:56.760
- Yeah, I'm more...

0:03:56.760,0:03:58.560
- Intricate.[br]- Intricate.

0:03:58.560,0:04:00.080
This one is in the catalog.

0:04:00.080,0:04:02.467
Actually, this was[br]the very first one I made.

0:04:02.467,0:04:03.360
- Oh, yeah?[br]- Now I remember.

0:04:03.360,0:04:06.280
This was the very first one,[br]the one I made here.

0:04:06.280,0:04:07.000
And then...

0:04:07.000,0:04:08.320
[ ELI SUDBRACK ] [br]When I was three years old,

0:04:08.320,0:04:10.120
I was fascinated[br]by this magazine

0:04:10.120,0:04:11.960
which was called Disneylandia,

0:04:11.960,0:04:13.800
which is "Disneyland"[br]in Portuguese.

0:04:13.800,0:04:15.040
My mother would read it for me,

0:04:15.040,0:04:17.120
it would be gone[br]in five minutes,

0:04:17.120,0:04:18.830
and I would get[br]really frustrated.

0:04:19.640,0:04:21.160
And then my father taught me

0:04:21.160,0:04:25.000
to cut the characters[br]out of the magazine,

0:04:25.000,0:04:28.240
put them on cardboard,[br]and I could make my own stories.

0:04:28.240,0:04:30.440
And that evolved along the years

0:04:30.440,0:04:33.440
to Marvel superheroes,[br]especially the X-men.

0:04:33.440,0:04:36.720
So I would cut the little[br]characters out of the magazine

0:04:36.720,0:04:39.480
and the power rays[br]or the architecture.

0:04:39.480,0:04:42.400
And I had a board,[br]and I would lay on my bed

0:04:42.400,0:04:44.751
and start playing with them[br]and create my own stories.

0:04:44.760,0:04:47.400
[indistinct dialogue]

0:04:47.400,0:04:49.320
I think it's a lot[br]related to the wallpaper.

0:04:49.320,0:04:52.320
It's the same sort[br]of flat-surface approach

0:04:52.320,0:04:53.701
to the imagery.

0:04:54.360,0:04:57.259
My father was really[br]my creative connection.

0:04:59.077,0:05:01.880
When I was born,[br]he was already 60 years old.

0:05:01.880,0:05:03.200
He was very social,

0:05:03.200,0:05:05.935
but my memory of him is this guy[br]who's always at home.

0:05:06.920,0:05:08.920
My father was a general[br]from the army.

0:05:08.920,0:05:12.480
He was not in favor[br]of the military dictatorship.

0:05:12.480,0:05:14.007
He was forced to resign.

0:05:15.080,0:05:19.034
He was also a literature critic[br]and a poet

0:05:19.034,0:05:21.078
besides being a dentist.

0:05:22.480,0:05:24.000
He would constantly tell me,

0:05:24.000,0:05:25.920
"Oh, my god, you have to do[br]something with color.

0:05:25.920,0:05:27.560
you're such a colorist."

0:05:27.560,0:05:29.080
My mother was, like,[br]quite the opposite.

0:05:29.080,0:05:33.259
Super-conservative, but she[br]didn't have much education.

0:05:34.880,0:05:37.440
My father had been rewriting[br]his last book forever.

0:05:37.440,0:05:39.840
He would be typing[br]little pieces, different words,

0:05:39.840,0:05:43.080
and pasting those words[br]on top of the old words.

0:05:43.080,0:05:45.600
His last book is a whole collage

0:05:45.600,0:05:47.978
of different words[br]that he'd keep replacing.

0:05:49.288,0:05:52.303
[indistinct conversation]

0:05:53.015,0:05:55.781
He spent a whole year in '68–

0:05:55.800,0:05:58.000
the year I was born,[br]which was the year

0:05:58.000,0:06:01.431
that the dictatorship[br]got more oppressive—at home.

0:06:02.920,0:06:05.720
A lot of what I do nowadays[br]is due to him.

0:06:06.662,0:06:08.364
And to my mother too,[br]both of them.

0:06:08.364,0:06:10.828
It was a very good combination,[br]in fact.

0:06:12.829,0:06:21.968
[alarm beeping]

0:06:21.968,0:06:25.920
[motor whirring]

0:06:25.920,0:06:30.539
This was the very first drawing[br]I made for the show at Deitch.

0:06:32.400,0:06:36.001
The core concept of that show[br]was demolition.

0:06:37.600,0:06:40.840
We were looking at a few[br]different demolition sources

0:06:40.840,0:06:44.840
related to demolishing the city,[br]because at that point,

0:06:44.840,0:06:48.040
a lot of the Long Island City[br]and the Brooklyn neighborhoods

0:06:48.040,0:06:49.120
were being demolished

0:06:49.120,0:06:51.716
to give birth[br]to these big high-rises.

0:06:52.680,0:06:53.200
Me and Christophe,

0:06:53.200,0:06:56.240
we were interested[br]in the demolition sites,

0:06:56.240,0:06:58.040
and we were actually making[br]a lot of installations

0:06:58.040,0:07:00.000
which replicated that imagery.

0:07:01.960,0:07:04.360
These are sketches[br]from that show,

0:07:04.360,0:07:05.160
and a lot of these things

0:07:05.160,0:07:07.640
are actually things that[br]we'd never end up producing,

0:07:07.640,0:07:08.760
Like this.

0:07:08.760,0:07:10.040
This was the DJ booth

0:07:10.040,0:07:14.317
made of all the trashed wood[br]with plastic ribbons.

0:07:15.040,0:07:18.474
This was supposed to be a space[br]that you go in.

0:07:19.000,0:07:21.956
There's, like, a staircase here,[br]and it had a little door.

0:07:22.920,0:07:24.520
and it had– this is a sausage,

0:07:24.520,0:07:26.163
and these are french fries[br]over here.

0:07:27.280,0:07:28.220
I don't remember, like,

0:07:28.220,0:07:31.080
why we came up with this[br]french fries and sausage thing.

0:07:31.080,0:07:33.777
It was–I was sort of obsessed[br]about that at one point.

0:07:34.960,0:07:36.720
Everything had a look[br]of construction,

0:07:36.720,0:07:39.000
so there's, like, a tarp–[br]Like, a blue tarp–

0:07:39.000,0:07:41.803
on top of the trash wood[br]structure here.

0:07:41.803,0:07:45.120
So we create sort of, like,[br]a shanty house structure.

0:07:45.120,0:07:46.840
We created this neon box.

0:07:46.840,0:07:47.920
it was like a hole,

0:07:47.920,0:07:49.600
and you would put[br]your head through

0:07:49.600,0:07:53.280
and then you would see[br]your face reflected.

0:07:53.280,0:07:56.040
You had all these neons[br]around your face.

0:07:56.040,0:07:57.400
It was like a one-way mirror.

0:07:57.400,0:07:58.840
From outside,[br]it was actually transparent,

0:07:58.840,0:08:00.480
so you would see this[br]person's face

0:08:00.480,0:08:02.751
with all these neons around,[br]flickering and stuff.

0:08:04.240,0:08:06.520
This is a zine that we made[br]for that show.

0:08:06.520,0:08:07.160
And this was, like–

0:08:07.160,0:08:10.160
we had, like, 16 different[br]people working with us.

0:08:10.160,0:08:12.960
A lot of our friends from Brazil[br]were working in the show,

0:08:12.960,0:08:14.080
and we were[br]giving out this zine,

0:08:14.080,0:08:17.210
so everybody had one or two[br]pages for this collaboration.

0:08:17.560,0:08:19.960
There was one facade

0:08:19.960,0:08:22.920
that struck[br]both me and Christophe:

0:08:22.920,0:08:27.370
these pink stones and, like,[br]gray plastic shingles.

0:08:28.640,0:08:32.560
We spent two months collecting[br]all the trash wood

0:08:32.560,0:08:35.400
from all these houses that were[br]being demolished in that area

0:08:35.400,0:08:36.900
to use in that installation.

0:08:37.434,0:08:40.720
At the same time,[br]we connected with Kenny Scharf.

0:08:40.720,0:08:42.680
And then we remembered[br]nuke bombs–

0:08:42.680,0:08:45.080
paintings he used to make[br]in the '80s–

0:08:45.080,0:08:46.040
and then I said,

0:08:46.040,0:08:49.671
"What if we turn one[br]of his nuke bombs into a neon?"

0:08:52.080,0:08:54.720
This place was[br]right on the water,

0:08:54.720,0:08:58.280
and it had this most[br]idyllic view of Manhattan

0:08:58.280,0:08:59.616
right in front of you.

0:08:59.616,0:09:01.640
I said,[br]"Let's nuke Manhattan."

0:09:01.640,0:09:05.360
"Let's put the bomb[br]right in front of the skyline."

0:09:06.280,0:09:08.840
"The history of the city[br]is being demolished."

0:09:08.840,0:09:13.000
"Let's point that out,[br]and then let's point out

0:09:13.000,0:09:15.570
that people should also make[br]their own history in the city."

0:09:16.734,0:09:19.440
Related to that,[br]we brought another subject

0:09:19.440,0:09:21.520
which we were working on[br]for a while,

0:09:21.520,0:09:25.240
which is the tranny,[br]the transgender image,

0:09:25.240,0:09:28.349
and we used that as another[br]symbol of demolition:

0:09:28.480,0:09:31.912
demolition of identity,[br]a demolition of your own body.

0:09:33.160,0:09:36.800
We had this giant doll[br]with a woman body,

0:09:36.800,0:09:39.920
but one side was a man face;[br]other side was a woman face.

0:09:39.920,0:09:42.040
We wanted to reuse that doll

0:09:42.040,0:09:44.960
and to somehow[br]demolish her as well,

0:09:44.960,0:09:46.360
because that's something[br]from the past

0:09:46.360,0:09:49.000
that we wanted to connect[br]this demolition idea–

0:09:49.000,0:09:50.800
we wanted to demolish[br]our own work.

0:09:50.800,0:09:52.680
So we broke her apart,

0:09:52.680,0:09:57.920
as if the Brooklyn facade[br]had just popped right onto her.

0:09:58.774,0:10:00.840
I can never remember[br]which witch is the one

0:10:00.840,0:10:03.640
that is dead in the beginning[br]of Wizard of Oz,

0:10:03.640,0:10:05.920
which you just see the shoes.

0:10:05.920,0:10:07.368
The west, the east--[br]I don't know.

0:10:11.200,0:10:15.360
A lot of what we make[br]starts by writing

0:10:15.360,0:10:19.600
or ideas or words or lists[br]of things I need to do,

0:10:19.600,0:10:22.025
and it's like creating[br]a universe, somehow.

0:10:25.200,0:10:27.437
Working together, it's very–

0:10:28.160,0:10:34.400
it's lonely, because I'm–[br]what happens that, you know,

0:10:34.400,0:10:36.200
I'm at my studio in New York,

0:10:36.200,0:10:38.760
and Christophe is in his studio[br]in Paris.

0:10:38.760,0:10:40.520
and then we exchange emails.

0:10:40.520,0:10:43.840
I have an idea for a show,[br]and I write–

0:10:43.840,0:10:46.520
I describe this idea[br]in the email.

0:10:46.520,0:10:47.960
And then he writes back to me,

0:10:47.960,0:10:50.000
and then he gives me[br]his thoughts about it

0:10:50.000,0:10:51.920
and I give my thoughts[br]about his thoughts.

0:10:51.920,0:10:53.880
So we're always, like,[br]kind of exchanging emails

0:10:53.880,0:10:59.010
about each other's vision[br]or ideas for a certain show.

0:10:59.132,0:11:01.701
[percussive rhythm]

0:11:01.854,0:11:03.040
[ CHRISTOPHE HAMAIDE-PIERSON ][br]We were, in some ways,

0:11:03.040,0:11:04.160
meant to work together.

0:11:04.160,0:11:07.725
I think we have, like, the same[br]sort of view on life, on art.

0:11:08.360,0:11:13.120
Eli is one person;[br]I'm somebody else. [laughs]

0:11:13.120,0:11:14.880
And we have our own differences,

0:11:14.880,0:11:17.520
and I guess that's the great[br]thing about collaboration, also,

0:11:17.520,0:11:20.122
is to have those[br]two differences connect.

0:11:21.116,0:11:24.222
[indistinct conversations]

0:11:24.222,0:11:25.760
[ ELI SUDBRACK ][br]I think there's a strategy

0:11:25.760,0:11:27.680
in what we make,

0:11:27.680,0:11:30.040
which is for everything[br]to become one.

0:11:30.040,0:11:32.709
the viewer become one[br]with the installation.

0:11:35.753,0:11:37.440
The core of what we make,

0:11:37.440,0:11:40.200
it's not object;[br]it's energy.

0:11:40.200,0:11:42.360
You know, we create this energy,

0:11:42.360,0:11:44.040
and then this energy,[br]it's there.

0:11:44.040,0:11:46.440
It happens in one moment,[br]and then it's gone.

0:11:46.440,0:11:49.179
You can't save that energy.[br]You can't sell that energy.

0:11:49.880,0:11:52.551
You can share that energy[br]in that moment.

0:11:53.077,0:11:56.945
But you can't really take it[br]somewhere else.

0:12:21.618,0:12:24.914
[ ANNOUNCER ] To learn more about [br]"Art in the Twenty-First Century"

0:12:24.914,0:12:27.077
and its educational resources,

0:12:27.077,0:12:32.035
please visit us online at: [br]PBS.org/Art21

0:12:35.129,0:12:38.347
“Art in the Twenty-First Century” is available on DVD.

0:12:39.243,0:12:41.802
The companion book is also available.

0:12:41.802,0:12:45.742
To order, visit us online at: shopPBS.org

0:12:45.742,0:12:50.212
or call PBS Home Video at: [br]1-800-PLAY-PBS