So this is Daniel's question:

"Do the Scriptures teach that

two separate judgments will occur

between the Gospel age

and the age to come?

Before coming to any conclusion 
on my eschatology,

I am not a dispensationalist,

I am an amillenialist 
(with a smiley face).

The reason why I am prompted

to ask this question is because

according to Hebrews 9:27..."

So let's all turn to Hebrews 9:27.

"Do Scriptures teach that

two separate judgments will occur

between the Gospel age
and the age to come?"

And he's asking that question

because he feels like,

according to Hebrews 9:27,

and if you have your Bibles open

to Hebrews 9:27,

you see that it says,

"And just as it is appointed

for man to die once,

and after that comes judgment."

And Daniel says,

"Just as it is appointed 
for man to die once

and after that comes the judgment,

in the text after the words 'die once,'

it says, 'and after.'

It sounds like the Apostle Paul

is stating..."

(I take issue with you on Apostle Paul)...

Anyway, the author of Hebrews.

Daniel is saying that it sounds like

it's stating that after the death

of an individual,

saved or lost,

judgment will occur right after.

Yet, you go to Revelation 20:11-15.

So keep your finger here and 
go to Revelation 20.

Verse 11-15

"Then I saw a great white throne,

and Him who is seated on it,

from His presence, earth and sky fled away

and no place was found for them.

And I saw the dead, great and small,

standing before the throne,

and books were opened,

then another book was opened,

which is the Book of Life.

And the dead were judged 
by what was written

in the books.

According to what 
they had done.

And the sea gave 
up the dead

who were in it.

Death and Hades 
gave up the dead

who were in them.

And they were judged, 
each one of them,

according to what they had done.

Then Death and Hades were thrown

into the lake of fire.

This is the second death.

The lake of fire.

And if anyone's name was not found

written in the Book of Life,

he was thrown into the lake of fire."

So, Daniel says, "yet, you go 
to Revelation 20:11-15,

which this passage is notoriously known as

the Great White Throne Judgment."

I don't think you have to say notoriously.

Because obviously the text does say

there's a great white throne

and there's a judgment.

Why do you say notorious?

Daniel: Perhaps in other translations

it words that particular 
passage differently,

so just to give a general 
title on that passage

was the Great White Throne Judgment.

Because on my translation 
it doesn't say that.

Tim: On your translation it what?

Daniel: It says judgment 
at the throne of God.

Tim: Yeah, mine says the Great
White Throne Judgement.

I mean, I have a heading.

I recognize it's not inspired, but...

I don't think we have to be so notorious,

because it is a judgment that happens

at the great white throne.

It speaks about another judgment

involving the dead.

The Book of Life, books being opened,

being judged for our works,

and Death and Hades being

thrown into the lake of fire.

This judgment will occur 
at the end of the age.

How do you properly interpret

both of these passages?

So, basically, his question is this.

It sounds like there's 
a judgment at the end,

but it sounds like there's 
a judgment immediately

after death as well.

Well, ok, let's go back to Hebrews 9:27.

Because Daniel was basically

going off of what Hebrews 9:27 
sounds like it's saying

when taken all by itself.

But it's really important that that text

be taken in its context.

Because the author of Hebrews is not

primarily talking about 
death and judgment.

He's primarily talking about Christ

and His one sacrifice.

Let's just pick up at Hebrews 9:22.

"Indeed, under the law, almost everything

is purified with blood."

So under Moses, God designed it

so that blood was necessary for much

of the ceremonial purification

that took place.

"And without the shedding of blood,

there is no forgiveness of sins.

Thus, it was necessary for the copies

of the heavenly things..."

The copies.

The stuff that happened

under Moses were copies.

Christ is the reality.

"It was necessary for the copies

of the heavenly things to be purified

with these rights."

In other words, with blood rights.

"But the heavenly things..."

In other words, the things that

pertain to Christ and His one offering.

"The heavenly things themselves

with better sacrifices than these."

Why, because they were animals.

They were animal sacrifices.

It was animal blood.

The blood of bulls and goats

does not do anything for sin.

Verse 24

"For Christ has entered,

not into holy places made with hands,

not like the copies,

which are copies of the true things,

but into heaven itself,

now to appear in the presence of God

on our behalf.

Nor was it to offer Himself repeatedly

as the high priest enters the holy places

every year with blood not his own.

For then, He would have 
had to suffer repeatedly."

So, he's arguing here.

Christ did not have to suffer repeatedly.

"It wasn't to offer Himself repeatedly."

Why did those have 
to be offered repeatedly?

Because they never accomplished anything.

There was never any removal of sin.

So, they had to 
keep coming back;

keep coming back;
keep coming back.

And you remember, one 
of the arguments made

is that these guys stood 
daily in the temple.

When Jesus was done, He sat down.

There were no chairs in the temple.

"He would have had to suffer repeatedly

since the foundation of the world.

But, as it is, He has 
appeared once for all

at the end of the ages, to put away sin

by the sacrifice of Himself."

Now, notice this.

Everything has been about Christ

and His offering.

"And just as..."

Now, you need to notice that.

Just as...

"Just as it is appointed 
for man to die once

and after that comes judgment..."

Just like that happens.

Just as man dies, and then after that

is the judgment,

"so Christ having been offered once

to bear the sins of many,

will appear a second time."

Do you see the parallel?

Man dies - then the judgment,

is parallel to

Christ dying in His offering,

and then returning the second time.

Well, I would ask this:

is Christ's second coming immediately

after He offered Himself?

Because that's the parallel.

Well, no.

It's a long time later.

And so because those are the two things

being compared there,

there would be no sense,

there would be no reason,

there would be nothing 
about the parallel

that would require us to say,

oh, the judgment must be immediately

after death.

Do you see what I'm saying?

So, taken in context,

and then we'll pick up verse 28,

"So, Christ having been offered

once to bear the sins of many,

will appear a second time,

not to deal with sin,

but to save those who are

eagerly waiting for Him."

I would just give you a text

maybe we could look at very quickly

before we move 
on to the second question.

Jump over to 2 Peter.

2 Peter 2 has the classic text,

in my estimation,

on the intermediate state.

By intermediate state, 
I mean when people die,

what happens between 
death and the judgment.

And notice what's being said here.

2 Peter 2:4

"For if God did not spare angels

when they sinned, but 
cast them into hell..."

So you see what's happened.

The angels sinned.

Cast into hell.

Well, you say, wait,

some of those angels are fallen

and they're running around still.

Well, it seems like Scripture teaches

that some were cast away.

Some are not allowed...

I'm not here to talk 
about the angels so much.

But, cast them into hell,

and notice this - the intermediate state,

from the time they sinned

until the judgment.

"Committed them to 
chains of gloomy darkness,

to be kept until the judgment."

You see, they weren't judged immediately.

They're put in a holding tank, as it were.

Now you say, ok, that's 
talking about angels.

That's not talking about people.

Ok.

Peter talks about people when he gets

down to verse 9.

"The Lord knows how to rescue

the godly from trials."

And notice this.

"And to keep the unrighteous

under punishment until 
the day of judgment."

You see that?

Not only angels, but men too,

are kept under punishment.

There is a place of punishment.

There's a place of holding.

It doesn't say that they were

immediately judged.

It says that they're being 
kept until the judgment.

Does that make sense?

So, I think we see that

no, there isn't more than one judgement.

You have the judgment at the end.

You know what's interesting.

Notice the parallel in 
9:27 and 9:28 of Hebrews.

It is man dies, then he's judged.

Christ offers Himself 
once, then He returns.

Well, in His offering, He died.

In His return, we have the judgment.

That's what Scripture teaches.

To give you just a portion of Scripture

that gives this, I think,

in very distinct clarity

is Romans 2.

Why don't we look at one more text

before we move on?

Romans 2

The Apostle Paul says in verse 1,

"Therefore, you have 
no excuse, O man,

every one of you who judges.

For in passing judgment on another,

you condemn yourself, 
because you, the judge

practice the very same things."

Verse 2,

"We know that the 
judgment of God rightly falls

on those who do such things.

Do you suppose, O man, you who judge

those who do such things,

and yet do them yourself,

that you will escape the judgment of God?

Or do you presume on the riches

of His kindness and forebearance

and patience, not 
knowing that God's kindness

is meant to lead you to repentance?"

Verse 5 is where Judgment 
Day is introduced to us.

"But, because of your hard 
and impenitent heart,

you are storing up wrath for yourself

on the day of wrath when God's righteous

judgment will be revealed."

See that? There's a day.

There's not two days.

There's not several days.

There's one day.

And notice, on the one day,

everybody's there.

Verse 6

"He will render to each one 
according to his works.

On the one hand, to those who by patience

and well doing seek for glory and honor

and immortality, He 
will give eternal life."

There's the Christian on Judgment Day.

"But for those who are self-seeking

and do not obey the truth,

but obey unrighteousness,

there will be wrath and fury.

There will be tribulation and distress

for every human being who does evil.

The Jew first and also the Greek.

But glory and honor and peace

for everyone who does good,

the Jew first and also the Greek,

for God shows no partiality."

And you know, you may remember

Matthew 25 as well.

What happens when Jesus comes?

You remember the Son of Man,

He comes and He sits.

We looked at that 
when we were

going through the 
eschatology series.

He sits down.

And He gathers the nations before Him,

and He divides them,

like a shepherd divides

the sheep and the goats.

You've got everybody there.

It's all at one time.

It's all in one day.

You have the righteous 
and the unrighteous,

and in the very last verse of Matthew 25,

you have those on His right,

they pass off into eternal life,

those on his left,

into eternal punishment.

So any questions or comments on that?

(from the room)

So is it right to say that right now

the wicked are under the wrath of God

in punishment?

Or I guess I'm just thinking as far as

Romans 2 how specifically it's saying

storing up wrath for a day of wrath

when God's righteous 
judgment will be revealed.

It kind of makes it sound like,

like the rich man, they're under flames

and torment right now,

but could that also be the wrath of God?

Tim: In Romans 1,

we see that the wrath of God

is already revealed.

And one of the ways it's revealed

is God is giving up people

to hardness and to sin.

Because they are going after idols,

and they are going after 
these lusts and everything.

God is giving them up.

And so, we know that man by nature,

they're called children of wrath.

Obviously if you're put 
in a place of punishment,

that's not like absent of wrath.

But I guess the picture that you have

is not so much 
exclusive to all other days.

Not like the Day of 
Judgment is the day of wrath

and there's no other days of wrath.

It's just a culmination of wrath

I think is the way you'd 
want to look at it.

Because clearly, we are under

the wrath of God by nature.

And clearly, being put in flames

like Lazarus and Dives 
you have there in Luke 16.

And some people would 
say that's a parable,

but 2 Peter is no parable.

2 Peter talks about them being kept

under punishment.

That punishment obviously

is an expression of wrath.

Is it going to get worse?

Is the wrath going to increase?

The second death is the lake of fire.

And yet, if we take Dives in Luke 16

as being an actual account,

which I tend to think it is,

I don't think it's parabolic.

But some people do.

But if you ever get into that debate,

you just run over to 2 Peter.

Some people want to argue for soul sleep.

There's various things 
that people want to say.

I think there's wrath now

and I think it just culminates.

The only way out,

the only way to be 
saved from the wrath

is to be under the blood,

whether it's now or later.

(from the room)

So whether there's 
a degree of wrath

that's greater than 
the lake of fire or not,

... you don't want either.

Tim: Everybody that's already died

before Judgment Day is obviously

going to pulled from 
this place of punishment

and brought before the Judge,

and then Jesus describes that.

Depart from Me, you workers of iniquity.

And they're cast away

into the outer darkness.

The lake of fire.

Ok. Any other questions or comments

or observations about that?

(from the room)

So then, that's for the unbeliever.

For the believer then, when they die,

they go to be with the Lord.

Tim: This day, you'll be 
with Me in paradise.

And yet, on Judgment Day, 
they are brought forward.

But for them, it's like it 
says there in Romans 2,

there's eternal life.

Well done, good and faithful servant.

(from the room)

So they're with the Lord,

and then there is a bodily resurrection...

Tim: That's the thing,

the bodily resurrection 
does not take place

until the judgment.

There's this resurrection of judgment.

There's a resurrection of life.

And that happens on the last day.

That happens when we get to the end.

And so, there's mysteries.

There's no question about it.

This day you'll be with Me in paradise.

There was Moses and Elijah up

on the Mount of Transfiguration.

It's like the disciples 
knew who they were.

Well, were they body-less?

Were they phantoms?

No, that's not the idea that you get.

But ok, what's the deal with Elijah?

Where's his body at?

He didn't even die.

I mean, I don't know.

I don't have all the answers,
and all the answers aren't given to us.

But we do know this,

that the general resurrection

is going to happen there at the last day.

And a classic text on 
that is found in John 5.

If you want to look there quickly.

John 5

A tremendous chapter of Scripture.

Anyway, if you go to John 5:25.

"Truly, truly, I say to you,

an hour is coming and is now here

when the dead will hear the voice..."

It's now here.

When He was talking.

"When the dead will hear 
the voice of the Son of God."

That's salvation.

That's hearing His voice.

Having ears to hear the Gospel

and to believe and trust Him.

"Those who hear will live."

They're given eternal 
life when they believe.

"For as the Father 
has life in Himself,

so He has granted the Son also

to have life in Himself,

and He has given Him authority

to execute judgment because

He is the Son of Man."

And He says this,

He's going to argue one 
case with another case.

"Do not marvel at this."

Don't marvel that when I speak,

I'm able to bring 
people to life spiritually.

"For an hour is coming when all

who are in the tomb..."

All.

Not just good; not just bad.

All.

"...who are in the tombs, 
will hear His voice,

and come out.

On the one hand, those 
who have done good,

to the resurrection of life,

those who have done evil,

to the resurrection of judgment."

So you see that reality there.

One general resurrection 
of the living and the dead.

One general judgment, so says Romans 2

and Matthew 25 and so on.