0:00:00.328,0:00:02.289 Could you describe a time in your life 0:00:02.289,0:00:04.323 in which the Lord disciplined you? 0:00:04.323,0:00:05.833 And you look back on that time 0:00:05.833,0:00:08.138 with utter thankfulness for the fruit 0:00:08.138,0:00:10.018 it yielded in your life? 0:00:10.018,0:00:12.254 Mack: Well, the one thing [br]that comes to my mind 0:00:12.254,0:00:14.954 is what I kind of alluded to earlier. 0:00:14.954,0:00:19.247 In about 1990, 0:00:19.247,0:00:21.925 the church we were in had a split - 0:00:21.925,0:00:23.941 a big division - 0:00:23.941,0:00:28.166 and I was so discouraged in it. 0:00:28.166,0:00:30.461 I was one of the pastors. 0:00:30.461,0:00:33.600 And I was so discouraged [br]in that experience 0:00:33.600,0:00:35.349 that I withdrew. 0:00:35.349,0:00:41.117 I did not take a stand [br]of confronting people 0:00:41.117,0:00:43.020 in a right way, in a loving way, 0:00:43.020,0:00:44.595 but still confronting. 0:00:44.595,0:00:46.791 I didn't know what to do. 0:00:46.791,0:00:48.992 I was afraid. 0:00:48.992,0:00:51.178 I had the fear of man, 0:00:51.178,0:00:53.038 so I didn't respond right. 0:00:53.045,0:00:57.528 And it caused me to [br]move in discouragement. 0:00:57.528,0:01:02.085 And I didn't realize at the time - 0:01:02.085,0:01:05.098 I honestly didn't - 0:01:05.098,0:01:09.487 but I think for ten years, 0:01:09.487,0:01:13.678 the Lord kind of let that [br]wilderness experience - 0:01:13.678,0:01:16.178 I wasn't pastoring. 0:01:16.178,0:01:18.479 We weren't even settled really. 0:01:18.479,0:01:20.306 I worked. 0:01:20.306,0:01:25.254 We had twins come along in 1992. 0:01:25.254,0:01:27.091 And it was a very difficult time, 0:01:27.091,0:01:29.889 because I couldn't [br]get any clear direction. 0:01:29.889,0:01:32.135 What does God want of me? 0:01:32.135,0:01:35.249 And it was a refining time 0:01:35.249,0:01:38.569 of loving discipline. 0:01:38.569,0:01:43.193 And I don't fully know [br]why it took ten years. 0:01:43.193,0:01:44.901 Maybe it wasn't even ten years, 0:01:44.901,0:01:48.505 but that was a time I was [br]truly disciplined by the Lord. 0:01:48.505,0:01:51.217 Discipline is loving correction 0:01:51.217,0:01:52.585 to make us more fruitful. 0:01:52.585,0:01:54.863 It's not punishment, right? 0:01:54.863,0:01:59.899 So, I learned huge lessons 0:01:59.899,0:02:03.029 in retrospect that I should have done this 0:02:03.029,0:02:04.690 as a pastor. 0:02:04.690,0:02:06.205 If I would have done this, 0:02:06.205,0:02:09.235 I would have protected [br]those believers more. 0:02:09.235,0:02:12.296 If I had been courageous to say, 0:02:12.296,0:02:14.088 "Brother, I disagree, 0:02:14.088,0:02:16.610 and what you're doing is wrong 0:02:16.610,0:02:18.500 because it's affecting others 0:02:18.500,0:02:20.162 and you're being selfish in this." 0:02:20.162,0:02:24.156 Saying things like that [br]when I should have, 0:02:24.156,0:02:27.321 but I didn't have the courage to, 0:02:27.321,0:02:29.869 I learned so much through that 0:02:29.869,0:02:33.246 as a discipline from the Lord. 0:02:33.246,0:02:37.170 And it's borne fruit in my life 0:02:37.170,0:02:40.410 to take a stand when I need to; 0:02:40.410,0:02:43.745 to see truth is on trial here, 0:02:43.745,0:02:47.575 and people are going [br]to be affected by this 0:02:47.575,0:02:52.129 if I don't respond in love, 0:02:52.129,0:02:54.189 but still respond, 0:02:54.189,0:02:57.100 so I've got to. 0:02:57.100,0:03:00.094 And that was a big hard discipline, 0:03:00.094,0:03:02.814 but that's the biggest one I can remember 0:03:02.814,0:03:04.185 in my own life. 0:03:04.185,0:03:06.473 Now, for the present, 0:03:06.473,0:03:09.425 discipline is not joyful. 0:03:09.425,0:03:10.838 It's grievous. 0:03:10.838,0:03:12.775 It's hard to go through it. 0:03:12.775,0:03:15.993 But, it's John 15 - 0:03:15.993,0:03:19.655 He disciplines and prunes us 0:03:19.655,0:03:21.668 because we are bearing fruit. 0:03:21.668,0:03:24.096 Then we'll bear more fruit. 0:03:24.096,0:03:26.336 James: So after that season of ten years, 0:03:26.336,0:03:28.426 is that when you ended up back in Denton 0:03:28.426,0:03:31.099 and the church started up again? 0:03:31.099,0:03:32.812 Mack: Well, not the same church, 0:03:32.812,0:03:36.560 but yes, we moved back to Denton in 1998. 0:03:36.560,0:03:40.930 So it wasn't a full ten years, 0:03:40.930,0:03:44.187 but it seemed like an eternity almost. 0:03:44.187,0:03:47.594 So we came back because 0:03:47.594,0:03:51.120 what came to me clearly was 0:03:51.120,0:03:54.321 it was like God had shown me in my heart, 0:03:54.321,0:03:57.583 I left where I was 0:03:57.583,0:04:01.496 out of discouragement without direction 0:04:01.496,0:04:04.890 to go to something positive 0:04:04.890,0:04:07.301 and clear and specific. 0:04:07.301,0:04:09.980 And so, it's always wrong 0:04:09.980,0:04:13.285 to make decisions and choices 0:04:13.285,0:04:14.760 out of discouragement. 0:04:14.760,0:04:18.455 You'll almost always make a mistake. 0:04:18.455,0:04:20.430 It's like marrying on the rebound 0:04:20.430,0:04:21.900 four months later, 0:04:21.900,0:04:22.902 and you realize, 0:04:22.902,0:04:24.661 oh man, what did I do? 0:04:24.661,0:04:26.164 You know people who do that. 0:04:26.164,0:04:29.381 So we came back to Denton in 1998. 0:04:29.381,0:04:35.680 (Incomplete thought) 0:04:35.680,0:04:38.941 I truly had matured 0:04:38.941,0:04:42.724 I honestly feel like. 0:04:42.724,0:04:49.717 And I had been preaching since 1975, 0:04:49.717,0:04:56.993 and now it was '98. 0:04:56.993,0:05:01.246 I honestly believe I was now 0:05:01.246,0:05:02.994 prepared enough to truly preach 0:05:02.994,0:05:05.237 and help somebody. 0:05:05.237,0:05:08.796 I mean, I don't know how to [br]say it any more than that. 0:05:08.796,0:05:10.991 My spirit had matured. 0:05:10.991,0:05:12.928 God had developed patience in me. 0:05:12.928,0:05:14.847 He had given me a pastor's heart. 0:05:14.847,0:05:17.436 He let me learn how to view issues 0:05:17.436,0:05:19.383 in a right and wrong way. 0:05:19.383,0:05:23.397 How to give answers about assurance [br]of salvation when somebody comes. 0:05:23.397,0:05:25.564 How to help them analyze it. 0:05:25.564,0:05:33.428 He gave me a pastor's heart. 0:05:33.428,0:05:35.988 But if I hadn't been through [br]what I'd gone through 0:05:35.988,0:05:38.122 in those years in the 1990's, 0:05:38.122,0:05:40.942 I wouldn't have been near as equipped. 0:05:40.942,0:05:49.036 So I praise God now for the fruit of it. 0:05:49.036,0:05:51.302 I wouldn't want to go through it again. 0:05:51.302,0:05:56.411 It's like open heart surgery. 0:05:56.411,0:05:58.429 Praise God for that surgery! 0:05:58.429,0:06:01.829 Lord, may it never be again. 0:06:01.829,0:06:03.557 But when you can have it, 0:06:03.557,0:06:06.882 you've got to have it to save your life. 0:06:06.882,0:06:08.460 You're thankful for it 0:06:08.460,0:06:11.822 and you're thankful for the surgeon.