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>> Vance Stevens: We're live!

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Hello, everybody. Somehow my video disappeared.

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It's there, but that's my - it's just in avatar format.

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Plus does that every now and then.

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OK, well anyway, this is Vance Stevens in Abu Dhabi..., no, sorry, in Al Ain.

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I'm living in Al Ain now, I forget where I'm living.

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Today is the 8th of December.

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They move me around so much, you know.

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And, anyway, it's the 8th of December 2013.

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We're talking with a good friend of mine, Phil Hubbard,

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from Stanford University in Palo Alto, California.

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And he's been doing some really neat stuff in Cal.

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I've known him for a long time in the Cal Intersection TESOL.

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>> Phil Hubbard: Since we were kids.

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>> Stevens: We were, it was like 20 years ago
[Hubbard laughs]

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>> Hubbard: reaching 30 [check]
[background voice]

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>> Stevens: Someone has a -- someone needs to have a headset on.

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[missed words] is muted.

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Errh not sure: it could be someone listening to the stream.

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Yeah, if you're listening to the stream -- OK.

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The echo has gone away [check]

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Someone has corrected it, that's good.

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All right, well, OK. Someone has announced in the stream chat that they're listening to it there.

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So that's good, everything seems to be working.

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We're doing a Hangout on Air, as we often do.

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We're streaming it on webheadsinaction.org/live

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At the moment we have six people in the hangout,

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there's room for four more.

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So if anyone is listening on the stream and would like to join us, they can.

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And right now we've got Claire Siskin and Jim Buckingham, Rita Zeinstejer and

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let's see, and also Rob, Rob is there, and me, Vance Stevens. Rob Permanus, is that correct?

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Correct me if I'm wrong. Permanus, Permanus - how do you pronounce your name?

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>> Hubbard: You have to unmute him <i>chuckles</i>

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>> Stevens: it's Perhamus -- Perhamus, OK, Good, I'll never forget that again, all right.

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Thank you very much, Rob. Rob is an occasional participant in our hangouts.

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Well Phil, take it away and anybody who wants to --

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by the way, you're all muted by default when you come into the hangout.

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You can unmute yourself.

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If you're going to unmute yourself and talk, please mute yourself again,

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so we don't get keyboard noises and things like that.

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And there's Elizabeth Anne, also shown up from Grenoble in France.

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And Halima Ozimova in Tashkent has also joined us, I see.

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>> Hubbard [check] I think we're great, well, hello, everybody.

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It's Good Morning for me, a little early in the morning,

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but the sun is beginning to show through the back window here.

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Thank you all for being here from all over the world.

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What I wanted to do today is talk about largely an idea and a project that I've been working on

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for the last couple of years, very sporadically.

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Unfortunately I get interrupted easily, as I'm sure all of you do,

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so what started out as a -- what I hoped was going to be a much more robust collection of materials

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has turned out to be a little more anemic

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but I still think that I have enough here that I can demonstrate the idea

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and especially share my thoughts about how to go

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about dealing with this relatively new notion of curation,

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although in some ways, maybe it's just a label for an old notion that we've had for quite some time.

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So, let me give you a little bit of the background,

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like several of the things I've worked on in the last few years,

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like learner training.

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This is something that has emerged out of my classroom experience

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with an advanced listening and vocabulary class,

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and I see Vance is showing some of the slides now.

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The class is for graduate students at Stanford

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and it's a really nice sandbox for playing with ideas,

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because these are -- well, they're all in graduate school already,

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they're, for the most part, in the high 90's onwards to the 100s in the TOEFL iBT

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so they really are advanced in that sense.

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And many of them are taking the course because we require them to do it.

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So they're kind of a captive audience

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but it's also a small course: we have a maximum 14 students in it

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and it allows me to not only play around with ideas, but get a chance to talk to the students afterward,

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not usually with formal research, but just informally as part of our normal tutorial sessions

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and find out what they thought about them and what I can do to make them work a little better.

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So, the problem that I noticed - an important part of this class

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is that students do independent projects

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and those independent projects are supposed to be for a minimum of three hours a week.

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Sounds like I am getting some echo in the background, but I will keep pushing through here..

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Uhh.. those projects are for three hours a week

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and they are responsible for doing the selection of the material

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with my help and with my guidance both before and after.

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And over the years, I have discovered that they are actually not really good at that.

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What they are good at is finding material that is interesting to them.

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But, they are not necessarily good at finding material that helps them.

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They discover that on their own a little bit down the road

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and often it doesn't become clear to both of us

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because I have a very slow learning curve and quickly forget things.

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So, I get to the end of the class and then I go

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"Oh, I should have provided them with a little more guidance.".

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So, about 2 years ago, I started doing this

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and it came as a juxtaposition of a couple of things.

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First of all, just my own general interest in the development of autonomy had been growing

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and as I have gone out and collected materials that I would just use in class,

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it was pretty clear to me that there is a huge amount of really interesting materials out there.

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And people have been collecting these for a while

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and teachers have been building lessons out of them

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-- sometimes pretty sophisiticated lessons --

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but I needed something that students could work with on their own.

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And so, I wanted to find a way to help them without just my advice

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as to how to look for materials, to actually start collecting materials

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in ways that would still give them quite a bit of freedom of choice

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but would also make it better as a language learning experience.

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As part of this course, they are also required to build vocabulary.

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They have to identify at least 35 new words and phrases every week,

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from the material they are using.

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So, this is a bit of the backdrop.

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In 2011, I came across a book, kind of independently.

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It was just recommended to me, for some reason, by Amazon:

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you know how that works.

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And the book was called 'Curation Nation'

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and there is, I think, a slide there perhaps somewhere, it's like the sixth slide.

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There's a -- if you want to pop that up.

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If not, it's just a picture of the book.

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But it's a book it's a book by Steven Rosembaum.

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>>Stevens: I will. Could I --

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I am supposed to be able to mute mikes, as the owner of the chat,

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but I am unable to mute Halima's for some reason

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and that is where the echo is coming from.

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So, Halima, could I ask if you could click on the "mute" on your mike when not speaking?

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And if you want to unmute, you can always speak to us.

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That is where our echo is coming from.

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And okay, I will do what Phil has asked me to do and pull up 'Curation Nation'.

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>> Hubbard: <i>laughs</i> Alright, thanks.

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Anyway, this is not a book about education by any stretch,

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but it did come up with this notion that we have so much material on-line now

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and we are having so much difficulty in sorting out

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what the good stuff is from the chaff, for any reason, for news and so on.

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Now we have all these feeds:

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You know, if you -- those of you on Twitter or any of the other networks that have lots of feeds,

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you get the -- even Google+ -- you get feeds from your friends,

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you get feeds from people that whoever runs the site thinks might be interesting to you

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and you are just overwhelmed with an enormous amount of material.

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Some of it's pretty cool.

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Much of it is stuff you wouldn't find on your own and that's great.

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But when you've got the specific target of trying to improve your language

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-- and of course, the group that I work with doesn't actually do a whole lot with social media

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because they don't have time as full-time graduate students --

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I am lucky if I can squeeze a few hours out of them to do the work

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that they need for the course that they are taking for credit from me.

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So, this notion of curation is based roughly

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on the idea of what people do in museums and in art galleries.

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You get an expert, somebody who actually knows a fair amount about a particular area

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and you have that expert create collections, add value to them in one way or another,

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and then you release those collections for the consumer - whoever it might be --

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to have a look at and to interact with.

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So, the key difference between this and what a lot of people are doing with this material

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-- you may have heard concepts like "digital curation",

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which can just mean curating digital materials

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but often means that computers are doing the job for you.

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Google news is a really good example of that:

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I find a lot of interesting stuff in there, I can even ask it to find particular categories,

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but it's still being selected without any human intervention.

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You compare that with something like Huffington Post,

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which is material that's been brought in by people who are

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-- in some cases, they're producing it, but in other cases they are aggregating it

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and trying to make sense out of it for the rest of us.

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So, a key point here is that curation isn't the same as aggregation, or listing, or tagging.

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It's okay to use that term for that but that's not the way I am using it.

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There is a really nice quote in my slide there that -- I think it's maybe --

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two more slides down, Vance. One more. There you go. Past curation.. yeah, that one.

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So this is - it's maybe a little mean, but I think it's right on point

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that when you just get collections of things, you've just got collections of things

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and its not necessarily anything other than "these are things that I liked"

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or "these are things that I think you will like".

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So, I prefer the next slide: you want to go to it, Vance?

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This is more the way I see curation,

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where you collect material, you organize it,

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there is even the potentially a path, well, there is certainly a path

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through the individual material groups,

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and then mayble even a path through the groups,

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although at the moment I haven't done that last point.

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So, this is, you know, kind of captures the idea that I want to talk about today.

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Curation, importantly, is not the same as creation or recreation

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or adaptation or sampling, or synthesizing.

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It's taking the material and adding something to it, maybe just a commentary,

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maybe just collecting it into some logical framework or logical sequence.

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So, when I took that idea, which I was getting through the Curation Nation book,

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and thought about it with respect to the material that I was using,

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I decided to experiment with that and come up

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with some collections of materials from -- as you probably know from the title here and also the PDF,

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if you've had a look at it -- comes from TED Talks.

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And in a moment I will talk about why I think TED talks is so good for that

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but at the base level, these were very popular with my students.

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What the students were doing more--

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they were having trouble coming up with good ones.

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They would always pick what was interesting

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and then often come back to me and say

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"Well, this was interesting, but I had trouble understanding it because my --

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the accent of the speaker was not easy for me to understand."

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or "I had trouble understanding it because -- it was interesting

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because I didn't know anything about it and I didn't have the background

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so there was a whole bunch of new vocabulary."

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So t could be interesting for all sorts of reasons,

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but it wasn't interesting for the right reasons,

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for what we think is good for independent language learning.

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Again, this doesn't mean that all of those collections, with the help of a teacher,

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couldn't have been very valuable in a classroom

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and especially getting to the content for connecting to discussions.

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But that's not the same thing as letting students work on their own.

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So, I do want to emphasis that.

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My perspective here, at least initially,

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is getting students to be able to do these things outside of class

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and then just come back and report on them

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rather than having something we do in class

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or that everybody does the same homework assignment on.

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Alright, so that's the set-up for what I believe curation should be,

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or at least can be, within this framework.

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So, I think what I'll do here is pause for a second and see if anybody has questions.

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and bring it up by trying to look at some of the chat pieces here

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Uh -- [<i>he hums</i>]

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[reading:] "What is meant by sign..."

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OK, so some of these chats are to each other about the chats.

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So I got to go to the other window

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Uh -- anybody -- anybody have any questions here?

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If not, I'll continue on.

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>> Stevens: I have to admit I have trouble following all the chats.

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There's also a back channel here, with Google: some people could be in that one.

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I never see that one until I get off of --

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>> Hubbard: Well, the last chat -- the last piece on the group chat said:

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"Yeah, we agree with you, Phil."

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So: that's great.

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I'll stop [check] there and if everybody agrees with me, I don't really need to --

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>> Stevens: you need go no further 
>> Hubbard: [overlapping, inaudible]

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No [<i>Hubbard and Stevens laugh</i>]

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>> Hubbard: OK, well, so, again, that's kind of the background,

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this idea that I needed to start collecting things.

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So, I'm still kind of almost two years in the past, now,

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telling you the story of how I got to where I got here.

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00:16:55,064 --> 00:16:59,014
So I picked TED talks and I started going into TED talks.

228
00:17:00,594 --> 00:17:03,696
I wasn't quite sure how I wanted to collect them

229
00:17:03,696 --> 00:17:06,494
but I knew there were some of the ones that <i>I</i> liked

230
00:17:06,494 --> 00:17:11,218
and I also knew some characteristics that I thought were useful for the students.

231
00:17:12,709 --> 00:17:15,601
I thought it was important to collect them into themes.

232
00:17:16,270 --> 00:17:21,069
You know, we've known for a long time that if you have related content,

233
00:17:21,069 --> 00:17:25,790
that it kind of feeds -- the materials feed one another

234
00:17:25,790 --> 00:17:29,920
and the students get probably a better and a richer experience,

235
00:17:29,956 --> 00:17:32,986
they get more natural repetition and key vocabulary

236
00:17:32,996 --> 00:17:36,425
than if you have people just kind of jumping out piecemeal

237
00:17:36,855 --> 00:17:40,002
with unconnected bits of material.

238
00:17:40,944 --> 00:17:48,436
I -- in the 1980's I was forced to teach a course with a book I don't remember the name of that.

239
00:17:48,436 --> 00:17:48,686
I do remember the author, but I'm not going to mention it on air.

240
00:17:51,517 --> 00:17:59,717
It was a reading textbook and the reading textbook had really interesting little chapters,

241
00:17:59,717 --> 00:18:02,103
at least most of them were interesting to me,

242
00:18:02,634 --> 00:18:05,397
but, you know, one chapter would be on the Olympics

243
00:18:05,397 --> 00:18:07,681
and the next chapter would be on sea-horses.

244
00:18:08,707 --> 00:18:14,054
And it's that kind of jumping around -- we typically don't do that with textbooks anymore.

245
00:18:14,189 --> 00:18:18,099
And yet when we turn students loose, a lot of times, that's what <i>they</i> decide to do.

246
00:18:19,584 --> 00:18:22,829
So again, even though I had been giving them guidance, saying:

247
00:18:22,839 --> 00:18:28,462
"Well, collect several bits of, you know, pieces of material, videos or podcasts

248
00:18:28,462 --> 00:18:31,050
that are related to one another in some way,"

249
00:18:31,806 --> 00:18:35,553
they wouldn't follow that advice, because it hadn't been done for them.

250
00:18:35,553 --> 00:18:42,310
They were still kind of chasing around, looking for the spots that just seemed interesting.

251
00:18:44,428 --> 00:18:49,208
OK. I think what I'll do is tell you what the

252
00:18:50,112 --> 00:18:53,592
-- at a kind of the abstract level, what I came up with

253
00:18:53,592 --> 00:18:56,469
about what the curator's role should be.

254
00:18:57,255 --> 00:19:02,039
And again, this is specifically for this target audience,

255
00:19:02,039 --> 00:19:05,950
but I think it can be tweaked and extended to other ones.

256
00:19:06,548 --> 00:19:10,976
The first thing you have to do is collect the stuff: you want digital materials,

257
00:19:11,206 --> 00:19:14,342
you want to organize them in some way:

258
00:19:15,278 --> 00:19:18,059
mine are organized systematically, but you could do

259
00:19:18,250 --> 00:19:21,119
-- you know, you could take news stories and do them chronologically.

260
00:19:22,972 --> 00:19:28,712
You need to sequence them and this is where a lot of collections fall short.

261
00:19:28,732 --> 00:19:32,150
They're just -- they're either randomly sequenced

262
00:19:32,470 --> 00:19:34,180
or they're not sequenced at all.

263
00:19:34,751 --> 00:19:40,448
And I think it is possible, as, you know, as the resident [check] expert, the teacher,

264
00:19:40,921 --> 00:19:41,923
to be able to say:

265
00:19:41,923 --> 00:19:48,039
"Here's a way to move so that the earlier ones might be a little bit easier to follow

266
00:19:48,549 --> 00:19:53,496
and the later ones are better understood if you've done the earlier ones."

267
00:19:54,765 --> 00:19:56,653
The fourth point there that

268
00:19:56,653 --> 00:19:58,350
-- on the slide that Vance has --

269
00:19:58,350 --> 00:20:01,791
is the hardest part of all of this,

270
00:20:02,563 --> 00:20:07,479
and that is trying to get this material levelled in some way.

271
00:20:08,465 --> 00:20:12,049
Wilfried Decoo in 2010 wrote a book, it's at the end

272
00:20:12,049 --> 00:20:15,115
-- the reference is at the end of the slideshow here --

273
00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:17,528
on systemization.

274
00:20:17,540 --> 00:20:20,248
And it was kind of a return to the idea that

275
00:20:20,618 --> 00:20:24,057
even if you're using authentic material,

276
00:20:24,057 --> 00:20:27,410
and especially if you're trying to create course material yourself,

277
00:20:27,940 --> 00:20:35,059
that you need to have a kind of natural development of that material

278
00:20:35,059 --> 00:20:38,564
from, you know, easier at lower levels, to harder

279
00:20:38,949 --> 00:20:43,671
and he went to the point of even talking about keeping databases

280
00:20:43,681 --> 00:20:45,156
that were very finely tuned,

281
00:20:45,156 --> 00:20:50,289
so you would be able to pull out lexical items and grammatical points and so on

282
00:20:50,289 --> 00:20:54,224
in a scope and sequence that fit

283
00:20:54,224 --> 00:20:56,640
what we thought we knew about language learning.

284
00:20:57,776 --> 00:21:01,588
And you know his -- I think his perspective is

285
00:21:01,588 --> 00:21:05,546
what I think is a reasonable one to bring up again,

286
00:21:05,592 --> 00:21:11,317
because I think we are often not cognizant of the difference between

287
00:21:11,317 --> 00:21:16,572
accessible and barely accessible and inaccessible materials,

288
00:21:16,572 --> 00:21:19,549
especially now that students can go in and, you know,

289
00:21:19,549 --> 00:21:27,174
get their first-language subtitles and transcripts for a lot of these materials

290
00:21:27,174 --> 00:21:32,854
and then have the illusion that they are actually understanding the English, in this case,

291
00:21:34,115 --> 00:21:38,173
and that they're building their English proficiency, where they --

292
00:21:38,173 --> 00:21:44,132
-- they may be to some extent, but probably not to the extent that they think they are.

293
00:21:44,148 --> 00:21:49,700
So there is the, you know, that idea of --

294
00:21:51,270 --> 00:21:54,711
well, in Decoo's book of fine tuning material.

295
00:21:54,711 --> 00:21:58,265
That doesn't work for me because at the levels I have,

296
00:21:58,265 --> 00:22:01,301
first of all, I have mixed-level classes to some degree,

297
00:22:01,301 --> 00:22:03,437
although they are all fairly advanced.

298
00:22:03,437 --> 00:22:07,878
They come from different backgrounds, I don't know what they know going in.

299
00:22:08,570 --> 00:22:13,225
So it's a little tricky to do it in the way that he likes.

300
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:19,266
But it still gave me the impetus to try and see if I could come up with something,

301
00:22:19,266 --> 00:22:21,970
you know, I'll show you that in a bit.

302
00:22:22,555 --> 00:22:27,901
So, the last part of that, then, once you can give at least some kind of level information,

303
00:22:27,901 --> 00:22:34,435
is to go ahead and then present your pedagogical support,

304
00:22:34,435 --> 00:22:36,066
whatever it might be.

305
00:22:36,850 --> 00:22:44,765
This is fairly open-ended, I mean teachers can get -- and often do get -- into material

306
00:22:44,765 --> 00:22:48,065
and they start stripping out what they think are key vocabulary,

307
00:22:48,065 --> 00:22:52,777
they produce, you know, pre-listening activities,

308
00:22:52,777 --> 00:22:56,745
they have post-listening activities,

309
00:22:56,745 --> 00:22:58,151
they have discussion activities.

310
00:22:58,151 --> 00:23:02,223
All these are great, but they're based kind of on a classroom model

311
00:23:02,223 --> 00:23:06,587
and even more important: they take a lot of time away

312
00:23:06,587 --> 00:23:11,287
from the job of collecting this material.

313
00:23:11,287 --> 00:23:15,325
So if you put the hours into making full lessons,

314
00:23:15,535 --> 00:23:20,659
you end up not having the time to even produce as much as I have,

315
00:23:20,679 --> 00:23:23,019
which, as I mentioned, is not as much as I'd like.

316
00:23:23,984 --> 00:23:30,364
OK, so that's the curator's role and then -- Vance, if you could go to the next slide.

317
00:23:32,632 --> 00:23:33,708
Did we lose you?

318
00:23:33,990 --> 00:23:36,493
>> Jim Buckingham [check]: Hi Phil, I just wanted to add to something you--

319
00:23:36,493 --> 00:23:37,298
>> Hubbard: Yes, go ahead

320
00:23:37,468 --> 00:23:38,835
>> Buckingham: Just because of my background:

321
00:23:38,835 --> 00:23:42,315
I used to work in museums
>> Hubbard: Oh, fantastic

322
00:23:42,344 --> 00:23:44,974
>> Buckingham: in education and curation
>> Hubbard: A real curator!

323
00:23:44,992 --> 00:23:49,311
>> Buckingham: Yeah. Just one other item I would add to the list

324
00:23:49,311 --> 00:23:53,027
and I made a note of it in the chat section

325
00:23:53,027 --> 00:23:57,493
and that's the -- often without knowing it we're making assumptions about our audience.

326
00:23:58,108 --> 00:24:01,898
>> Hubbard: Ah!
>> Buckingham: When we're selecting things,

327
00:24:02,271 --> 00:24:08,871
whether they be objects for display or -- like in the museums -- or

328
00:24:08,871 --> 00:24:12,502
objects for presentations to students, we're often unknowingly making assumptions

329
00:24:14,807 --> 00:24:19,404
and I think it's a really important thing to know, to challenge ourselves

330
00:24:19,404 --> 00:24:24,169
about the assumptions we're making in making those selections, those choices, as experts.

331
00:24:25,059 --> 00:24:27,409
>> Hubbard: Yeah, I mean that's a very good point

332
00:24:27,422 --> 00:24:34,204
and I have to -- as individuals, the students always change in my classes.

333
00:24:34,706 --> 00:24:38,776
As a group, you know, I get to know the group better.

334
00:24:38,776 --> 00:24:41,911
So I think, in this very targeted group, I can --

335
00:24:42,215 --> 00:24:47,501
I can come up with at least, initially, some likely ones,

336
00:24:47,721 --> 00:24:51,349
but I do in fact ask them for feedback on --

337
00:24:52,248 --> 00:24:56,428
Well, first of all, I give them choices and then I ask them for feedback

338
00:24:56,450 --> 00:25:01,795
both on, you know, what they chose and why, of the ones I selected for them,

339
00:25:01,795 --> 00:25:05,816
and also what else they might like to see.

340
00:25:06,712 --> 00:25:09,048
So it becomes a <i>little bit</i> od a dialog,

341
00:25:09,063 --> 00:25:13,252
and that could be even more of a dialog, you know, if you have --

342
00:25:13,559 --> 00:25:17,375
the way my class is structured, again, because it's so small,

343
00:25:17,388 --> 00:25:23,568
we do a lot both within class discussion and with the individual tutorials.

344
00:25:23,568 --> 00:25:28,335
But if you got a larger class and you got a discussion board or a wiki or something like that

345
00:25:28,335 --> 00:25:32,402
where, you know, students can -- can chime in more regularly,

346
00:25:32,402 --> 00:25:35,071
then you could get some information.

347
00:25:35,071 --> 00:25:42,596
I also haven't formally surveyed them, so that would be useful too. I --

348
00:25:42,596 --> 00:25:46,832
>> Buckingham: You're inviting their feedback to inform --
>> Hubbard: Very much so. Yeah.

349
00:25:46,832 --> 00:25:49,637
>> Buckingham: Yeah --
>> Hubbard: But not as richly as I could.

350
00:25:49,637 --> 00:25:54,600
So one idea I had was that, you know, like you've seen probably in museums,

351
00:25:56,450 --> 00:26:02,146
sometimes they have the displays but they'll also have, you know,

352
00:26:02,155 --> 00:26:04,710
places where people can, you know, write cards

353
00:26:04,710 --> 00:26:08,744
and make suggestions and say things and drop those off

354
00:26:08,744 --> 00:26:15,303
and I think, probably increasingly, we'll see museum displays

355
00:26:15,303 --> 00:26:24,598
where the, you know, the viewers' thoughts are right up there and accessible to other viewers

356
00:26:24,598 --> 00:26:26,875
when they go to look at the material.

357
00:26:27,765 --> 00:26:36,956
So I think you're making a really good point and, you know, this is the --

358
00:26:37,755 --> 00:26:42,788
figuring out exactly the role of the students who are still kind of developing,

359
00:26:42,788 --> 00:26:48,598
you want to meet them half way but you also, in the curation model, I think,

360
00:26:48,598 --> 00:26:52,490
want to be careful about the difference between curation and crowdsourcing,

361
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:56,068
because I've had students come up with some materials

362
00:26:56,068 --> 00:26:57,755
that they thought were really exciting,

363
00:26:58,109 --> 00:26:58,359
but when <i>I</i> looked at it, I could see what the problems were in terms of the --

364
00:27:04,248 --> 00:27:07,042
the use of it by other students.

365
00:27:08,155 --> 00:27:10,749
>> Buckingham: Now I take your point: it's you acting as the filter.

366
00:27:10,959 --> 00:27:12,484
>> Buckingham: and finding --
>> Hubbard: Yeah, and that's --

367
00:27:12,511 --> 00:27:16,946
and again that's -- and again that's the -- this is the kind of, to me, this the curation model.

368
00:27:17,354 --> 00:27:19,426
>> Buckingham: Yeah
>> Hubbard: The crowdsourcing model

369
00:27:19,426 --> 00:27:21,852
is a great model too, it's just a different model

370
00:27:21,852 --> 00:27:24,981
and it may work better in some cases.

371
00:27:24,981 --> 00:27:28,426
Of course it also depends on, you know,

372
00:27:28,426 --> 00:27:32,788
I've been to museums that I didn't think were very well run, were very well organized

373
00:27:32,791 --> 00:27:34,046
or were confusing.

374
00:27:34,046 --> 00:27:34,851
So --
>> Buckingham: Yeah.

375
00:27:34,851 --> 00:27:37,056
>> Hubbard: as soon as you have the human expert coming in,

376
00:27:37,405 --> 00:27:40,693
they may not be as much of an expert as they think they are.

377
00:27:41,178 --> 00:27:44,180
That's probably true of me, in fact.
>> Buckingham: Yeah, and there are lots of people [check]

378
00:27:44,180 --> 00:27:47,537
a lot of examples of museums, because I'm into curating things

379
00:27:48,783 --> 00:27:54,622
and then I'm finding out that the interpretations that they were expecting audiences to have

380
00:27:54,622 --> 00:27:56,452
were completely off-base.

381
00:27:56,721 --> 00:27:58,624
>> Hubbard: Yeah.
>> Buckingham: I think that's a good example

382
00:27:58,624 --> 00:28:05,901
of big money going into these exhibitions and then being interpreted in a completely unexpected --

383
00:28:05,901 --> 00:28:09,318
>> Hubbard: Yeah, well, the good news here is, I have no big money.

384
00:28:09,318 --> 00:28:13,184
I mostly have no money at all for this. So -- [he laughs]

385
00:28:13,660 --> 00:28:18,035
It's also, the nice thing is, you know, compared to the museum,

386
00:28:18,035 --> 00:28:23,779
where you have all of these Unkosten [? check] to putting the material in,

387
00:28:24,025 --> 00:28:26,063
once you have something, you start a web page:

388
00:28:26,063 --> 00:28:34,435
if it is a disaster, or if it needs to be tweaked or significantly changed,

389
00:28:34,435 --> 00:28:38,265
it's possible to do that just by finding a little bit of time.

390
00:28:40,726 --> 00:28:44,331
[Buckingham and Hubbard overlap]
>> Buckingham: It's just [missed words check]

391
00:28:44,331 --> 00:28:48,094
There's even an opportunity, actually, in, as an expert,

392
00:28:48,094 --> 00:28:52,110
putting together a series of well-chosen articles

393
00:28:52,110 --> 00:28:57,165
and then inviting students to assemble them and put them into a -- into an order or sequence,

394
00:28:57,165 --> 00:29:01,309
and to try and explain the rationale that they've used,

395
00:29:01,309 --> 00:29:03,255
what connections they've seen in the works.

396
00:29:03,255 --> 00:29:05,960
It's just another angle to it I sure would --

397
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,911
>> Hubbard: No, it's a very good angle and in fact, you know,

398
00:29:08,911 --> 00:29:16,363
as I've moved through stages in probably about 15 years of teaching this course,

399
00:29:16,363 --> 00:29:23,279
I've tried to give students more independence but also to give them guidance in that independence

400
00:29:23,279 --> 00:29:28,371
and one of the -- what I hope I'm doing with the material I have,

401
00:29:28,371 --> 00:29:30,667
I do show them how I put it together.

402
00:29:30,667 --> 00:29:34,766
And I hope I'm, you know, kind of modeling curation for them as well.

403
00:29:35,627 --> 00:29:41,664
The idea of getting them to maybe do a little curated piece of their own,

404
00:29:42,771 --> 00:29:45,914
that could be an interesting final project for the course.

405
00:29:45,914 --> 00:29:48,982
I will be revisiting it again in Spring.

406
00:29:49,658 --> 00:29:52,731
I'll be away from it in Winter quarter here

407
00:29:52,731 --> 00:29:54,677
because we have -- we teach 10-week quarters.

408
00:29:55,677 --> 00:29:59,355
But that's a possibility for Spring, actually.

409
00:29:59,355 --> 00:30:04,231
It could also greatly enrich the collection of material that's available to other students.

410
00:30:04,231 --> 00:30:08,111
Again, as long as I'm there to be a kind of a filter,

411
00:30:08,111 --> 00:30:10,566
rather than just releasing these into the wild.

412
00:30:11,504 --> 00:30:14,813
Or if I do release them, you know, making sure that students know the difference

413
00:30:14,813 --> 00:30:18,486
between ones that are student-produced and the once that I produced

414
00:30:18,486 --> 00:30:21,756
and why, you know, I did mine one way.

415
00:30:21,756 --> 00:30:26,381
Then they can -- they can judge to some extent, you know,

416
00:30:26,381 --> 00:30:32,144
whether they think the rationale used by their peers, you know, was useful for them.

417
00:30:32,144 --> 00:30:35,683
So, that's a nice idea, I'm making a note of that.

418
00:30:40,174 --> 00:30:42,468
OK, shall I move on?

419
00:30:42,468 --> 00:30:48,754
>> [Stevens? check] Yeah. I'm aware of a podcast - there's the slide on I'm talking --

420
00:30:48,754 --> 00:30:50,669
>> Hubbard: Yeah, thanks
[they laugh]

421
00:30:50,669 --> 00:30:56,384
>> Stevens (?): I listened to a podcast where some educators had gone to Europe,

422
00:30:56,384 --> 00:30:59,005
probably on a junket but ostensibly
[Hubbard laughs]

423
00:30:59,005 --> 00:31:01,594
>> Stevens: to visit museums and find out, you know,

424
00:31:01,594 --> 00:31:05,349
especially ones that had audience attract--

425
00:31:05,349 --> 00:31:09,204
you know, the idea was that museums, people didn't have to go there,

426
00:31:09,204 --> 00:31:10,380
they have to attract people.

427
00:31:10,380 --> 00:31:13,986
So what do they do to attract the people, as opposed to schools?

428
00:31:13,986 --> 00:31:17,841
And then, how can we design our classroom environment

429
00:31:17,841 --> 00:31:19,294
so it's more like a museum?

430
00:31:19,294 --> 00:31:23,631
So that was actually a serious project and I'll never remember --

431
00:31:23,631 --> 00:31:30,044
I'll never forget how to get it back, but maybe I will tell you in Portmont [check].

432
00:31:30,044 --> 00:31:32,599
>> Hubbard: Ah OK? So that was good.

433
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:38,012
Yeah, so Vance has put up the slide that I wanted to make a point of here,

434
00:31:38,012 --> 00:31:41,871
because there are a couple of things that are important about this slide, I think.

435
00:31:42,563 --> 00:31:45,804
The first is, even though these are just little bullet points,

436
00:31:45,804 --> 00:31:51,668
that actually took me a while to kind of figure this out, maybe because I'm slow, but --

437
00:31:52,298 --> 00:31:54,842
Oop, Vance, I lost the slide.
>> Stevens: it is here again? >> Hubbard: thanks.

438
00:31:58,025 --> 00:32:01,920
Because of all the other distractions I have

439
00:32:03,381 --> 00:32:10,931
and because of other elements of where I am and what the -- sort of the visibility,

440
00:32:11,300 --> 00:32:18,985
the first thing I have to make sure is that anything that I curate is actually legally available.

441
00:32:20,969 --> 00:32:26,269
And a certain amount of stuff that I had used years before, even in my own class,

442
00:32:27,238 --> 00:32:32,877
I wasn't quite so sure about what the legality was, I think, in the early days of the internet.

443
00:32:33,861 --> 00:32:38,880
Even now with YouTube I try to be careful about making sure that

444
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:43,133
what I've found is something that whoever put it up either has the right to

445
00:32:43,133 --> 00:32:45,597
or they're reposting something that is --

446
00:32:45,597 --> 00:32:50,785
that's already got a Creative Commons license or something like that.

447
00:32:51,166 --> 00:32:55,123
So, especially for something I'm going to put some time into here,

448
00:32:55,123 --> 00:32:59,430
I want to make sure that what I've got is something I can use.

449
00:32:59,430 --> 00:33:01,621
I also always want to make it freely available

450
00:33:01,621 --> 00:33:05,464
because my students have friends back in their home countries

451
00:33:05,464 --> 00:33:10,798
and they have even colleagues here who don't end up taking my class

452
00:33:11,644 --> 00:33:17,455
and I have colleagues that are interested in using some of the material I do,

453
00:33:17,455 --> 00:33:23,949
so everything I do in this kind of a project, I try to make sure it's freely available on the Web.

454
00:33:24,769 --> 00:33:29,036
Vance, we lost the slide again, or at least I did.
[incomprehensible metallic voice - check]

455
00:33:29,036 --> 00:33:32,712
>> Hubbard: Oh wait, is this Halima saying something? Uh, you know--

456
00:33:32,712 --> 00:33:37,752
>> Stevens: No, Halima is unmuting herself as soon as she comes into the chat.

457
00:33:37,752 --> 00:33:41,633
So I'm going to have to -- Halima, can you mute your microphone?

458
00:33:42,571 --> 00:33:44,194
Because it's causing feedback.

459
00:33:45,009 --> 00:33:50,652
And I hope you can figure that out, and meanwhile we put this back.

460
00:33:50,667 --> 00:33:54,120
Is it back yet [missed words check] Phil?
>> Hubbard: Yeah, that's great. >> Vance: OK

461
00:33:55,012 --> 00:33:59,666
>> Hubbard: Yeah, so the "freely and legally available" is an important quality

462
00:33:59,666 --> 00:34:03,582
and you know, TED talks obviously are ideal for that.

463
00:34:04,458 --> 00:34:06,373
They're likely to be interesting.

464
00:34:06,373 --> 00:34:09,829
Again that's something -- oops, lost the slide again,

465
00:34:10,705 --> 00:34:12,604
but I'll just go ahead and walk through these.

466
00:34:13,050 --> 00:34:19,808
"Likely to be interesting", I guess that connects to a previous commentary [laughs]

467
00:34:19,808 --> 00:34:22,506
that we don't always know what students think are interesting,

468
00:34:23,429 --> 00:34:25,675
but I try to pick things that I think are,

469
00:34:25,675 --> 00:34:29,839
you know, have a good chance of being interesting for the students.

470
00:34:31,639 --> 00:34:37,032
The good technical quality: there is a lot of stuff, obviously,

471
00:34:37,032 --> 00:34:44,375
available on the Web that's not, that's interesting and freely and legally available,

472
00:34:45,328 --> 00:34:51,656
but the technical quality is such that it may be less ideal for language learning.

473
00:34:53,254 --> 00:34:57,517
We're getting better at that now, certainly, than in the old days,

474
00:34:57,517 --> 00:35:04,043
but when - when you're looking for material, if it's been overly compressed,

475
00:35:04,043 --> 00:35:07,392
or it was done with devices that weren't that good in the first place,

476
00:35:08,607 --> 00:35:13,418
it doesn't necessarily lend itself as well for language learning.

477
00:35:13,956 --> 00:35:18,189
Stability is a really important point, because I don't want to do this

478
00:35:18,804 --> 00:35:24,400
and then find out what I did is not available the next time I teach the class,

479
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:26,253
or even the next week.

480
00:35:26,729 --> 00:35:32,188
So again, finding material that has -- either has been up for a while

481
00:35:32,188 --> 00:35:35,562
or that you know is going to continue to be up for a while.

482
00:35:36,522 --> 00:35:41,262
The 5th one is a -- you know, people have different views of this,

483
00:35:41,262 --> 00:35:47,670
but because I'm so tied in with vocabulary development along with comprehension,

484
00:35:48,546 --> 00:35:55,584
to me it's critical to have captions at least -- [coughs] excuse me, losing my voice here --

485
00:35:58,333 --> 00:36:03,074
to have captions at least and ideally, to have transcripts.

486
00:36:03,074 --> 00:36:08,933
And one of the reasons for transcripts is to be able to try to use some material

487
00:36:09,609 --> 00:36:12,837
which I'll show you in a moment here some of you are probably familiar with:

488
00:36:12,837 --> 00:36:16,182
the vocabulary profile from lextutor.

489
00:36:16,766 --> 00:36:22,106
By using -- by dumping the transcript into that, you can get an idea of levelling.

490
00:36:23,749 --> 00:36:25,525
And if you don't have a transcript,

491
00:36:25,525 --> 00:36:29,821
then you have to kind of use just intuitive feels for what's the level.

492
00:36:29,821 --> 00:36:34,194
Then I've personally seen some pretty significant problems with that.

493
00:36:35,058 --> 00:36:37,755
I may mention one towards the end here

494
00:36:37,755 --> 00:36:42,397
when I get to some of the alternative sites I know that already exist for this.

495
00:36:43,182 --> 00:36:45,411
And then ideally, if you can find complem --

496
00:36:45,411 --> 00:36:47,341
something that has complementary materials.

497
00:36:47,694 --> 00:36:51,930
Again, in the case of TED talks, you've got materials that are --

498
00:36:52,837 --> 00:36:59,487
you have a brief summary of whatever the talk is, right there available,

499
00:36:59,487 --> 00:37:02,246
you don't have to create it as the curator,

500
00:37:02,246 --> 00:37:06,463
you've got the bio of the speaker, which is good background information,

501
00:37:06,939 --> 00:37:11,979
and in some cases you even have -- I think, what do they call it, TED Ed or something --

502
00:37:11,979 --> 00:37:17,160
there are some TED talks that even have some additional material that --

503
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:22,277
that people have added to them, in the way of discussion questions and things like that.

504
00:37:23,015 --> 00:37:28,138
TED's not as rich as, say, you know, if you're doing a newscast for example,

505
00:37:28,138 --> 00:37:34,395
and you might have several written forms of the same news story

506
00:37:34,395 --> 00:37:35,910
that you can use for back up:

507
00:37:35,910 --> 00:37:37,363
it's not quite as rich as that,

508
00:37:37,363 --> 00:37:44,202
but it's still pretty good with giving you some of these complementary materials, besides the video itself.

509
00:37:46,786 --> 00:37:50,293
OK. You want to move on to the next --

510
00:37:51,984 --> 00:37:54,729
>> Hubbard: Actually, it's probably the next couple of slides
>> Stevens: Yeah.

511
00:37:54,729 --> 00:37:56,136
>> Hubbard: does someone have a question?

512
00:37:56,689 --> 00:38:04,026
>> Stevens [check]: Yes, Peggy George has asked questions in the text chat, the Etherpad one.

513
00:38:04,795 --> 00:38:06,710
Let's see, I can -- she asks:

514
00:38:06,710 --> 00:38:10,976
"Are your students able to share your curated content with others outside the course?"

515
00:38:10,976 --> 00:38:15,266
>> Hubbard: Yes. Yes, som you'll see the --

516
00:38:15,266 --> 00:38:20,397
in fact I think it comes up here on the next slide or couple of slides.

517
00:38:20,397 --> 00:38:25,352
Actually the next slide, if you go to the next slide, let me talk briefly about that,

518
00:38:25,352 --> 00:38:30,531
because it does have to do with the sharing.
>> Stevens: Mmm - OK

519
00:38:30,924 --> 00:38:36,351
>> Hubbard: So that the link there is to the advanced listening website

520
00:38:36,351 --> 00:38:39,045
and you'll see, you know, quite a bit of material there,

521
00:38:39,045 --> 00:38:40,506
not just the TED talks.

522
00:38:41,223 --> 00:38:45,365
The link - the specific link to the curated TED talks is a couple of slides from here

523
00:38:45,365 --> 00:38:52,346
but those are -- those themselves are legally and freely available.

524
00:38:52,346 --> 00:38:55,430
They're <i>my</i> websites, they are on the Stanford server:

525
00:38:55,430 --> 00:39:01,159
Stanford is not going away any time soon, as far as I know <i>I'm</i> not going away any time soon.

526
00:39:01,635 --> 00:39:06,380
So those are not only, you know, available on the World Wide Web,

527
00:39:06,380 --> 00:39:11,226
unless you happen to be from a country that is for some reason blocking access to Stanford:

528
00:39:11,702 --> 00:39:14,114
that has happened a few times in the past.

529
00:39:16,201 --> 00:39:19,125
But if not, then you can get to that material

530
00:39:19,125 --> 00:39:23,420
and all it does is jump out to the TED talks themselves

531
00:39:23,420 --> 00:39:26,641
and the TED talks again are, you know, freely available.

532
00:39:27,317 --> 00:39:31,073
I noticed in one of the preliminary discussions

533
00:39:31,073 --> 00:39:38,663
that somebody had put in some comments, before this began, on the learning2gether site,

534
00:39:38,663 --> 00:39:45,799
and mentioned YouTube videos, and YouTube videos are certainly a great resource,

535
00:39:46,460 --> 00:39:52,745
most of my students are from China and most of them, then, unless things have changed,

536
00:39:53,130 --> 00:39:57,879
can't freely and legally get the YouTube videos there.

537
00:39:58,491 --> 00:40:03,737
And so for that reason I try to -- I don't <i>avoid</i> YouTube

538
00:40:03,737 --> 00:40:07,812
but I try to limit it and I like to make the curated collections

539
00:40:07,812 --> 00:40:14,174
something that my students will be able to use and their friends will be able to use.

540
00:40:17,771 --> 00:40:19,946
OK. Any other questions?

541
00:40:21,019 --> 00:40:26,865
Uh, so, yeah, so they are available and when I -- just so you know --

542
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:35,245
when I redo the course every quarter, that URL there stays the same, the material is new.

543
00:40:35,829 --> 00:40:38,552
Well, most of it is old actually, but I do update it

544
00:40:38,552 --> 00:40:41,418
sometimes because I come up with other ideas

545
00:40:41,418 --> 00:40:45,627
and sometimes because some of my other class material disappears.

546
00:40:47,119 --> 00:40:52,874
But the home page of that each quarter has the link to the previous quarter's materials,

547
00:40:52,874 --> 00:40:58,528
so you can actually step back from quarter to quarter and go back.

548
00:40:58,528 --> 00:41:04,268
I never throw anything away on the Web, so it's probably got stuff from 5 years ago

549
00:41:04,268 --> 00:41:09,394
if you keep clicking back through the previous quarters' material.

550
00:41:09,978 --> 00:41:16,009
So you can see what it was like in the past ["without"? check] sort of my own Internet Archive.

551
00:41:18,248 --> 00:41:24,538
OK. The way that I did this material, let me move on to the --

552
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:27,536
Well, I guess on this slide,

553
00:41:28,243 --> 00:41:35,087
the problems that my students have, typically, fall into issues with speech rate:

554
00:41:35,579 --> 00:41:38,483
some of the TED talks are too fast.

555
00:41:38,483 --> 00:41:43,486
It doesn't mean they can't, you know, use top-down skills to understand the basic content,

556
00:41:43,486 --> 00:41:46,852
but that's not necessarily going to help them drive their --

557
00:41:46,852 --> 00:41:54,129
either their listening proficiency, you know, their ability to process English, automatize it,

558
00:41:54,129 --> 00:42:00,709
or their ability to pick out the vocabulary that they don't understand or --

559
00:42:00,709 --> 00:42:05,666
even more interesting is the vocabulary they sort of understand or partially understand,

560
00:42:05,666 --> 00:42:11,833
but they just can't get to it, they can't access it in the time with a faster speaker.

561
00:42:11,833 --> 00:42:16,700
And there are others in my class, actually, that do OK with some of the faster speakers,

562
00:42:16,700 --> 00:42:20,215
but just having knowledge of the speech rate is useful.

563
00:42:21,552 --> 00:42:28,016
Preliminary knowledge of the accent: just a -- since in some cases we have students

564
00:42:28,016 --> 00:42:33,663
that are having particular difficulties with particular accents, often of their professors,

565
00:42:34,647 --> 00:42:39,950
and they may actually be doing a project where they're trying to focus on that accent.

566
00:42:40,690 --> 00:42:45,640
And so in that case, knowing more about the accent is helpful.

567
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:50,886
And others are really trying to -- I wouldn't say "master",

568
00:42:50,886 --> 00:42:59,161
but at least becoming -- become more proficient with the North American accent

569
00:42:59,161 --> 00:43:04,149
because they plan on not only doing their graduate work here, but staying a few years afterwards.

570
00:43:04,149 --> 00:43:10,060
It's a very common professional track for our students whether at the Master's or the Ph.D. level, to --

571
00:43:11,981 --> 00:43:15,330
because so many of them are in technology, they want to hang around Silicon Valley

572
00:43:15,330 --> 00:43:18,683
as much as the can after they, after the graduate.

573
00:43:20,223 --> 00:43:23,411
OK. If you could go to the next slide, Vance?

574
00:43:26,865 --> 00:43:30,330
>> Stevens: OK I might 
[both overlap]

575
00:43:30,330 --> 00:43:35,744
>> Stevens: You mentioned Claude Almansi's contribution to the wiki earlier

576
00:43:35,744 --> 00:43:45,113
and one thing that she said -- she left this on the Google+ page as well:

577
00:43:45,113 --> 00:43:50,068
I post this to several pages.
Let me just get rid of that slide for a second.

578
00:43:50,068 --> 00:43:53,922
I see I can do that by clicking off the screen share for a second, OK?

579
00:43:53,922 --> 00:43:58,394
Well, anyway. She does work in closed captioning,

580
00:43:58,394 --> 00:44:01,842
she does a lot of very interesting work relating to MOOCs [check] where she is.

581
00:44:01,842 --> 00:44:08,343
And one of the suggestions she made -- I didn't know this, but maybe you did already,

582
00:44:08,343 --> 00:44:16,991
but you can -- she said you can, if you get the MP4, if you get an MP4 of a YouTube video,

583
00:44:16,991 --> 00:44:20,436
you can then load it into Audacity -- I didn't know that --

584
00:44:20,436 --> 00:44:29,521
and then you can adjust the rate of speech there, without causing any chipmunk effects.

585
00:44:30,182 --> 00:44:31,928
>> Hubbard: Mmm.
>> Stevens: I thought that was kind of neat.

586
00:44:31,928 --> 00:44:34,138
Sounds like useful information?

587
00:44:34,859 --> 00:44:45,063
>> Hubbard: Yeah, that's -- again, there are lots of things you can do to go more deeply into this stuff.

588
00:44:45,601 --> 00:44:52,019
I -- one of the things I do with TED talks is, you can also download TED talks and you can --

589
00:44:52,711 --> 00:44:58,337
even if you put them into something, well I use the VLC player,

590
00:44:58,337 --> 00:45:03,383
because the speech rate slider is right on the top,

591
00:45:03,383 --> 00:45:08,938
it's much easier to get at than it is in QuickTime or in Windows Media Player.

592
00:45:08,938 --> 00:45:12,050
I like the VLC player for other reasons, in fact.

593
00:45:12,495 --> 00:45:20,027
But, you know, once you have downloaded you can use the VLC player to --

594
00:45:21,532 --> 00:45:24,048
for the most part you don't really get the chipmunk effect

595
00:45:25,032 --> 00:45:29,930
because it's trying to expand the time domain without changing the frequencies,

596
00:45:29,930 --> 00:45:34,590
it's not like the old days with LP's and cassette tapes

597
00:45:34,590 --> 00:45:38,253
where time and frequency were connected to one another.

598
00:45:38,253 --> 00:45:41,161
Digitally, you can isolate those.

599
00:45:42,037 --> 00:45:47,079
What we found is that if you slow somebody down to about 80%,

600
00:45:47,079 --> 00:45:54,181
you can get a lot more processing time and it still sounds natural as long as you have good material.

601
00:45:55,011 --> 00:45:58,228
If you have material that's already been compressed too much,

602
00:45:58,228 --> 00:46:04,109
then those compression artefacts become stronger if you try to slow it down.

603
00:46:04,515 --> 00:46:08,955
Occasionally, we get people that my students want to speed up

604
00:46:08,955 --> 00:46:13,164
but most of the time, for language learning processes, we're talking about slowing it down.

605
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:21,178
So it's -- using, changing speech rate, that's a whole different talk,

606
00:46:21,178 --> 00:46:31,456
but it's, I think, a very underused functionality and something that students sometimes baulk from

607
00:46:31,456 --> 00:46:41,000
but we have some research evidence that it's helpful when the students have control over it.

608
00:46:41,753 --> 00:46:44,627
Anyway, I don't want to diverge too much on that, but that's a --

609
00:46:44,627 --> 00:46:47,232
I do encourage everybody to read that post

610
00:46:47,232 --> 00:46:51,981
and see in more detail what some of the options are for doing that.

611
00:46:53,580 --> 00:47:00,362
In fact, one of the -- one of the problems with using the VLC player with those is,

612
00:47:00,362 --> 00:47:09,049
if you -- if you do try to slow down the speech rate by downloading it and putting it in the VLC player,

613
00:47:09,064 --> 00:47:12,298
you actually move the subtitles, because the subtitle feature --

614
00:47:13,159 --> 00:47:20,899
the captioning feature in the TED website is built into the website, it's not built into the video.

615
00:47:20,899 --> 00:47:26,627
And so you would need to do some additional captioning if you want to do that.

616
00:47:27,481 --> 00:47:34,506
My -- if your goal is general comprehension and you've got decent material,

617
00:47:35,044 --> 00:47:41,312
then I'm a fan of using the Google beta transcription.

618
00:47:43,695 --> 00:47:46,604
Even with good material, it makes a lot of mistakes

619
00:47:46,604 --> 00:47:50,136
and with material which, you know, isn't really, really clear,

620
00:47:50,136 --> 00:47:53,500
either because the speaker wasn't clear, or because the signal wasn't clear,

621
00:47:53,500 --> 00:47:54,853
it makes a lot more mistakes.

622
00:47:55,307 --> 00:47:59,597
And in my case, when I'm trying to have students use it for vocabulary development,

623
00:48:00,166 --> 00:48:05,289
if it's got -- if it picks the wrong word, then they're going to be learning something pretty weird.

624
00:48:05,289 --> 00:48:07,970
And it does that all the time.

625
00:48:08,624 --> 00:48:15,242
If you change that and, you know, get around to Google Translate, to get first-language captions,

626
00:48:15,242 --> 00:48:18,662
you just accentuate the error rate.

627
00:48:19,431 --> 00:48:22,725
So again, it really depends on what the goal is.

628
00:48:22,725 --> 00:48:29,445
If the goal is letting students watch a video for cultural and general content information,

629
00:48:29,983 --> 00:48:32,884
maybe to trigger classroom discussions, things like that,

630
00:48:32,884 --> 00:48:38,693
then using the automated captions is not a bad idea

631
00:48:38,693 --> 00:48:44,726
and being able to slow down is not necessarily -- is, well, I think a good idea.

632
00:48:46,620 --> 00:48:50,587
So again, it depends on what the goals are, but you have to be careful,

633
00:48:50,587 --> 00:48:54,117
because the Google beta, there is a reason why they keep calling it beta,

634
00:48:54,117 --> 00:48:57,572
it's because it's pretty error-prone.

635
00:48:58,418 --> 00:49:00,464
It's getting better but it's not there yet.

636
00:49:01,362 --> 00:49:04,721
And if students think it's an accurate rendition

637
00:49:04,721 --> 00:49:06,328
that's going to be even more difficult.

638
00:49:06,328 --> 00:49:12,756
If you do use the automated captions then the students need to be prepared for --

639
00:49:13,463 --> 00:49:16,414
you know, to be able to recognize when something doesn't make sense.

640
00:49:17,090 --> 00:49:19,737
It's usually -- it's a very obvious semantic issue

641
00:49:19,737 --> 00:49:21,506
with the words they pick.

642
00:49:24,072 --> 00:49:28,859
OK. One other thing, I don't remember if it was in that post or another one but

643
00:49:28,859 --> 00:49:36,097
something I hadn't noticed before someone mentioned that there is a slight delay

644
00:49:36,097 --> 00:49:39,881
in the synchronization of the captions in TED

645
00:49:40,296 --> 00:49:43,649
compared to the system that they were suggesting.

646
00:49:44,163 --> 00:49:48,985
So, uh, that's something else to take into account.

647
00:49:48,985 --> 00:49:54,082
You might, If that delay seems to be an issue for you or your students, then --

648
00:49:56,773 --> 00:50:00,845
it's something that I plan to explore because I hadn't noticed that before.

649
00:50:01,850 --> 00:50:05,785
Okay, a little bit about how I finally figured out to do this,

650
00:50:05,785 --> 00:50:09,164
which is not the way I would recommend doing it now necessarily

651
00:50:09,917 --> 00:50:17,277
But this is how I started working on this. When I did it I guess it was Spring of 2011.

652
00:50:18,184 --> 00:50:27,345
The first thing was to...oh no, it wasn't Spring: Fall of 2011.

653
00:50:27,773 --> 00:50:30,717
The first thing to do is to get the TED database.

654
00:50:30,717 --> 00:50:35,492
It turns out you can get an excel spreadsheet that has all of the Ted talks on it.

655
00:50:35,492 --> 00:50:39,395
If you go to their website you can see that there's a link for that.

656
00:50:40,176 --> 00:50:45,474
And the nice thing about that is that you can skim that a whole lot more easily

657
00:50:45,474 --> 00:50:47,624
than you can skim other material

658
00:50:47,624 --> 00:50:55,086
and you can also look, among other things, it tells you what the length of the talk is.

659
00:50:55,086 --> 00:51:04,124
And most Ted talks are around 18 minutes and most students attention focus ability is less.

660
00:51:06,981 --> 00:51:17,365
Um, okay, the database then, when I did it myself,

661
00:51:17,365 --> 00:51:19,865
it was smaller for one thing, at that point.

662
00:51:19,865 --> 00:51:24,829
But I did sort of skim it and looked for ideas, looked for themes

663
00:51:25,490 --> 00:51:27,343
and searched for keywords.

664
00:51:27,343 --> 00:51:30,100
So creativity was one of the first ones I did,

665
00:51:30,100 --> 00:51:34,022
so I was just able to search for anything that had creativity

666
00:51:34,022 --> 00:51:37,467
either in its description or in its title.

667
00:51:38,467 --> 00:51:43,295
I put together a list of candidates within that.

668
00:51:43,295 --> 00:51:48,094
I was looking for four or five talks to make a kind of a cluster,

669
00:51:48,094 --> 00:51:52,217
a sort of a virtual room in the museum if you will.

670
00:51:53,317 --> 00:52:01,441
And for each of those, I -- well, first of all, I did listen to the accent and got that.

671
00:52:02,364 --> 00:52:06,405
I wanted to get at least a proxy for the speech speed

672
00:52:06,405 --> 00:52:08,335
and so -- the speech rate --

673
00:52:08,335 --> 00:52:11,527
so I just took the transcript, dumped it into Word

674
00:52:11,527 --> 00:52:16,117
so that I got a word count, divided that and came up with words per minute.

675
00:52:16,117 --> 00:52:20,745
I was actually quite surprised at the range that I could see there.

676
00:52:20,745 --> 00:52:25,562
If you go to the website for cre-- the link for "creativity"

677
00:52:25,562 --> 00:52:30,609
on my ted1 website of the curated talks there --

678
00:52:31,209 --> 00:52:35,528
the slowest speech rate is like 91 words a minute.

679
00:52:36,036 --> 00:52:40,006
Some of that is because there are pictures being shown in between

680
00:52:40,482 --> 00:52:44,878
but it still means you got a lot more time to process the language coming in

681
00:52:44,878 --> 00:52:48,530
than if you got somebody coming in at -- at a higher rate.

682
00:52:49,837 --> 00:52:54,340
Some of my students do a --

683
00:52:55,447 --> 00:53:00,118
there's a website at Stanford called "Entrepreneurship corner"

684
00:53:00,118 --> 00:53:03,107
and they have a lot of Silicon Valley types come in

685
00:53:03,107 --> 00:53:05,160
and give talks on campus.

686
00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:08,132
They also have transcripts and subtitles for that

687
00:53:08,562 --> 00:53:13,150
and one of the talks that I always have the students try

688
00:53:13,150 --> 00:53:17,601
is Marissa Mayer who, at the time she gave the talk, was a VP for Google

689
00:53:18,092 --> 00:53:21,264
but is now the CEO of Yahoo!.

690
00:53:22,001 --> 00:53:28,877
And she talks between 220 and 237 words a minute on the one I have,

691
00:53:28,877 --> 00:53:36,271
so I use her as an example of where you might try to use the speech rate shift

692
00:53:36,271 --> 00:53:40,918
and be able to use the slider to slow her down to 80%.

693
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:47,581
OK. The next thing, once I have that rough speed --

694
00:53:47,581 --> 00:53:53,330
and again, it's just a rough speed, but it's better than not using technology

695
00:53:53,330 --> 00:53:57,678
and try just to use intuition about "This is too fast, this is too slow."

696
00:53:58,354 --> 00:54:06,895
The vocabulary profiler -- this is Tom Cobb's work of genius in my opinion.

697
00:54:06,895 --> 00:54:11,190
There are a lot of parts to that lextutor.ca site,

698
00:54:11,190 --> 00:54:14,063
but the one that I use for this purpose is the --

699
00:54:14,063 --> 00:54:18,312
well, at the time, was the British National Corpus profiler

700
00:54:18,312 --> 00:54:19,919
and there is the link to it there.

701
00:54:19,919 --> 00:54:23,600
Basically, you dump a text, a transcript into it

702
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:30,634
and it gives you as output all the words divided into 1'000 verbal frequency bands,

703
00:54:30,634 --> 00:54:34,219
so, you know, which words are in the first thousand words of English,

704
00:54:34,219 --> 00:54:36,778
the second thousand words of English, and so on,

705
00:54:36,778 --> 00:54:38,947
all the way up to the 20'000 level.

706
00:54:38,947 --> 00:54:47,196
For my students, we try to focus more on the, you know, just doing a short --

707
00:54:48,641 --> 00:54:53,681
well, we -- I try to get them to focus more around the 5'000 level,

708
00:54:53,681 --> 00:54:55,961
so anything below that that they don't know,

709
00:54:55,961 --> 00:54:57,784
it means it's a word that they should learn.

710
00:54:59,752 --> 00:55:03,797
And when you go to my site, you can see how that's split up.

711
00:55:04,689 --> 00:55:07,612
I skim the transcript for unusual terms and idioms --

712
00:55:07,612 --> 00:55:10,851
Oh, I meant to mention: in the last few weeks,

713
00:55:11,558 --> 00:55:20,449
Tom has actually added the Coca, it's a contemporary corpus of American English

714
00:55:20,449 --> 00:55:21,979
and blended those in,

715
00:55:21,979 --> 00:55:24,338
so it now goes up to the 25'000 level.

716
00:55:24,737 --> 00:55:29,222
And it has much more American English in it now,

717
00:55:29,222 --> 00:55:30,506
rather than just the British.

718
00:55:31,198 --> 00:55:35,210
So, for those of you who like, you know, concordancing

719
00:55:35,210 --> 00:55:37,511
and corpus studying, study and so on,

720
00:55:37,511 --> 00:55:43,030
it's got a much richer layering out than it did when I was using it for this purpose.

721
00:55:45,905 --> 00:55:47,743
OK. So that's the process.

722
00:55:47,743 --> 00:55:53,333
Now I said, you know, I would do it a little bit differently, probably.

723
00:55:53,333 --> 00:55:57,579
It turns out that, since the time I began this and now,

724
00:55:58,502 --> 00:56:01,464
TED has come up with its own curated collections.

725
00:56:01,464 --> 00:56:03,598
And so, if you go to the TED website,

726
00:56:03,598 --> 00:56:06,178
you will see a link to something called "playlists"

727
00:56:06,916 --> 00:56:11,232
and these are collections of material that people have put together.

728
00:56:11,232 --> 00:56:13,627
In some cases, it's done by TED itself,

729
00:56:14,503 --> 00:56:17,039
you know, whoever is in the background working there,

730
00:56:17,039 --> 00:56:21,583
but they also have curated collections by Bill Gates and Bono

731
00:56:21,598 --> 00:56:24,073
and, you know, other famous folk,

732
00:56:24,073 --> 00:56:27,414
or in some cases, they're people who are less famous

733
00:56:27,414 --> 00:56:34,829
but, you know, are very well-known within their, you know, their more restricted field.

734
00:56:34,851 --> 00:56:37,567
And there's some really, really good collections there.

735
00:56:39,074 --> 00:56:41,648
So now, instead of just going to the database,

736
00:56:41,648 --> 00:56:45,870
my inclination would be to go to that -- to those other curated playlists.

737
00:56:45,870 --> 00:56:48,443
Those have been curated just by interest

738
00:56:48,812 --> 00:56:54,915
and so if you have a list of maybe 10 or 12 videos on one topic,

739
00:56:55,438 --> 00:56:58,707
you go through those, and maybe you pick out the 4 or 5

740
00:56:58,707 --> 00:57:00,391
that you think are easiest to work with.

741
00:57:03,681 --> 00:57:05,847
So, that's there on the "Recent changes".

742
00:57:07,062 --> 00:57:09,887
I did -- number 2 there where it says

743
00:57:09,887 --> 00:57:11,263
-- this is from my talk last July --

744
00:57:11,263 --> 00:57:16,483
Well, I did have a project assistant who has collected some more material for me

745
00:57:16,483 --> 00:57:21,208
and basically run it through the -- the Word, you know,

746
00:57:21,208 --> 00:57:27,859
done some of the preliminary work for the words for minute and the vocabulary profile.

747
00:57:28,659 --> 00:57:31,237
Unfortunately, that came at the end of Summer,

748
00:57:31,237 --> 00:57:33,568
right before Fall quarter started for me

749
00:57:33,568 --> 00:57:36,337
and I have not had a chance to really look through her material

750
00:57:37,244 --> 00:57:41,933
but I do have some partially digested material

751
00:57:41,933 --> 00:57:44,901
that should help me create some new stuff.

752
00:57:47,207 --> 00:57:51,275
I guess, at this point, probably the most useful thing --

753
00:57:51,275 --> 00:57:56,155
Vance, could you -- can you actually click on that link to the TED1,

754
00:57:56,155 --> 00:57:58,435
just so I can sort of show people what --

755
00:57:59,622 --> 00:58:01,137
[Stevens and Hubbard speak together]
>> Stevens: ... already.

756
00:58:01,137 --> 00:58:05,935
It's in the text chat. So --
>> Hubbard: Ah, OK, so people can go to it

757
00:58:05,935 --> 00:58:08,496
on their own? Alright, then you --
>>Stevens: I can also share it.

758
00:58:09,145 --> 00:58:13,485
>> Hubbard: Well, the only thing -- I think if you go down -- go to the next slide actually,

759
00:58:13,485 --> 00:58:15,138
there's the Creativity group.
>> Stevens: OK.

760
00:58:15,968 --> 00:58:17,344
>> Hubbard: and this will show --

761
00:58:19,697 --> 00:58:23,629
This is a more condensed version of what you would see on the page.

762
00:58:24,367 --> 00:58:26,533
>> Stevens: Mmh. OK: let me share it.

763
00:58:26,533 --> 00:58:30,460
>> Hubbard: but this is, yeah, this is the Andy Hobs-- Hobsbawm,

764
00:58:30,460 --> 00:58:32,490
I'm not sure how to pronounce his name.

765
00:58:34,019 --> 00:58:41,784
This is a nice beginning talk, I think it's the second talk in the Creativity group.

766
00:58:41,784 --> 00:58:44,603
You can see it's a pretty short talk, just three and a half minutes.

767
00:58:44,603 --> 00:58:47,656
You can see the speed is 135 words per minute.

768
00:58:47,656 --> 00:58:50,703
He has kind of a dramatic presentation style,

769
00:58:51,117 --> 00:58:55,910
so that's why it's a little bit more slow, a little bit slower,

770
00:58:55,910 --> 00:58:58,845
it's very articulate, it's very easy to hear,

771
00:58:58,845 --> 00:59:05,877
it is more of a British English rather than an American English version.

772
00:59:06,692 --> 00:59:09,745
The vocabulary you can see at the 5'000 level,

773
00:59:09,745 --> 00:59:16,047
so if you -- to read that, I mean, 95% of the words are in the first 5'000 words of English.

774
00:59:17,523 --> 00:59:22,504
And, you know, 98% of the first 10'000, and then Off-List.

775
00:59:22,504 --> 00:59:25,538
The Off-List on these are often proper nouns.

776
00:59:25,538 --> 00:59:29,486
So those don't necessarily cause a great deal of difficulty,

777
00:59:29,486 --> 00:59:31,233
especially if some of the names in it,

778
00:59:31,233 --> 00:59:36,164
or names of places are ones that the students already are familiar with.

779
00:59:36,164 --> 00:59:38,158
[stifles a sneeze] Excuse me.

780
00:59:38,158 --> 00:59:41,088
About to sneeze. Wasn't expecting to do that online.

781
00:59:42,857 --> 00:59:46,715
And then a little bit of a comment: "creativity is repeated a number of times."

782
00:59:46,715 --> 00:59:50,565
So, if you go to the website, you'll see it's a -- it's a little richer than that

783
00:59:50,565 --> 00:59:53,958
but this kind of captures the main point I want to say.

784
00:59:53,958 --> 00:59:59,188
So I said, I'm giving value added, as the expert,

785
00:59:59,188 --> 01:00:01,465
and not only am I collecting these things,

786
01:00:02,111 --> 01:00:08,186
but I'm using technology to give students some idea of level.

787
01:00:09,263 --> 01:00:11,737
Ultimately, it would be great if I could say, you know,

788
01:00:11,737 --> 01:00:21,270
this is level 5 of 10 levels, or this is at the B1 level of the C, CEF,

789
01:00:22,946 --> 01:00:28,632
or just even, you know, this is high-intermediate, or something like that.

790
01:00:28,632 --> 01:00:31,867
I don't have that confidence yet,

791
01:00:31,867 --> 01:00:34,867
so at this point I'm giving students more the raw data,

792
01:00:34,867 --> 01:00:40,032
but I do actually tell them, and I may highlight this in future versions,

793
01:00:40,432 --> 01:00:47,177
that at the 5'000 level is probably the most important pivot point for my students.

794
01:00:48,323 --> 01:00:52,262
If that level, you know, if that's up to 96 or 97%,

795
01:00:52,293 --> 01:00:55,431
that means they're going to understand that fairly well.

796
01:00:55,431 --> 01:01:00,764
If it's down even to 92 or 93%, then there are likely to be enough words in there

797
01:01:00,764 --> 01:01:02,880
that they are going to have gaps.

798
01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:07,721
And they'll be able to process it top-down, extract information from it,

799
01:01:07,721 --> 01:01:10,188
but it won't be as valuable for language learning.

800
01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:12,851
If you look at the, you know, the research on reading,

801
01:01:12,851 --> 01:01:15,758
which is much better established than on listening,

802
01:01:17,066 --> 01:01:22,360
anywhere between 95 and 98% is what people typically quote as

803
01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:25,518
material that's ideal for language learning.

804
01:01:25,534 --> 01:01:28,896
And below that percentage, if you don't know those words,

805
01:01:29,327 --> 01:01:33,304
then you're not going to be reading or listening in the same way:

806
01:01:33,351 --> 01:01:36,175
you're not going to be processing the language in the same way.

807
01:01:37,144 --> 01:01:41,817
OK. I see we're moving ahead quite a bit on time here.

808
01:01:41,848 --> 01:01:45,920
So I think I'll go to a -- just a final slide.

809
01:01:45,951 --> 01:01:48,969
Vance, could you go to the "Related examples" one?

810
01:01:50,307 --> 01:01:54,069
>> Stevens: Uh-uh.
>> Hubbard: Just to let you -- yeah --

811
01:01:54,100 --> 01:01:56,812
these are just a few places that I know of

812
01:01:56,812 --> 01:01:59,799
where people are trying to do something similar.

813
01:02:00,506 --> 01:02:05,435
The CLILSTORE Project is a very big European project

814
01:02:05,881 --> 01:02:10,728
and they have collected material.

815
01:02:10,728 --> 01:02:11,981
Some of it they've done themselves,

816
01:02:11,981 --> 01:02:16,373
some of it teachers have put into there, to their database,

817
01:02:16,373 --> 01:02:23,148
they have information on the talk itself, they've --

818
01:02:23,148 --> 01:02:28,635
whoever has done it has put in a CEF level,

819
01:02:28,635 --> 01:02:33,815
so it starts with all the A1 material, then the A2, and then the B1 and then the B2.

820
01:02:33,815 --> 01:02:37,697
It's done in -- I checked -- and it's apparently done intuitively.

821
01:02:37,697 --> 01:02:42,396
It's not apparently done by running it through, you know,

822
01:02:42,396 --> 01:02:46,439
the kind of material that I was using there, lextutor and so on.

823
01:02:46,439 --> 01:02:49,501
But at least, it means an expert teacher has said:

824
01:02:49,501 --> 01:02:51,834
"Here is the level I think this is at."

825
01:02:51,834 --> 01:02:55,559
I will mention some issues with that myself,

826
01:02:55,559 --> 01:03:00,648
because I looked at it and they put a TED talk in the A1 level, somebody had it.

827
01:03:00,648 --> 01:03:07,097
And it's definitely not the A1 level for -- at least for comprehension purposes.

828
01:03:07,097 --> 01:03:09,146
It may be that the person put that in

829
01:03:09,146 --> 01:03:11,103
because the content was so valuable

830
01:03:11,103 --> 01:03:14,528
and that they thought that this is something that could be used

831
01:03:14,528 --> 01:03:16,195
you know, with a lot of help.

832
01:03:16,195 --> 01:03:23,695
But the main feature of the CLILSTORE material is that all of the words --

833
01:03:23,695 --> 01:03:25,313
there is a transcript

834
01:03:25,313 --> 01:03:29,535
and all the words in the transcript are linked to multilingual dictionaries.

835
01:03:29,535 --> 01:03:32,135
So you just have to click on a word in a transcript you don't know,

836
01:03:32,135 --> 01:03:35,358
and you immediately get the response.

837
01:03:35,358 --> 01:03:39,597
Ayamel is a Brigham Young media project

838
01:03:39,597 --> 01:03:44,148
where they've been collecting and cataloging authentic media.

839
01:03:44,148 --> 01:03:48,691
All of these use authentic media, I want to emphasize there,

840
01:03:48,691 --> 01:03:50,896
but you could go back, you know,

841
01:03:50,896 --> 01:03:55,315
and curate Randall's Cyber Listening Lab or something like that as well.

842
01:03:55,315 --> 01:03:57,557
And then I haven't checked this one.

843
01:03:57,557 --> 01:03:59,961
I hope the link is still good.

844
01:03:59,961 --> 01:04:03,026
There is a product called Lingle

845
01:04:03,026 --> 01:04:06,556
that will index according to Common European Framework level,

846
01:04:06,556 --> 01:04:09,891
so if you put something into it, it will give its best guess

847
01:04:09,891 --> 01:04:17,561
as to, you know, what the level is for both reading and for listening.

848
01:04:17,561 --> 01:04:21,271
OK. Let's see.

849
01:04:21,271 --> 01:04:25,392
I see somebody else has put a CEF level (check) over in the chat -- James.

850
01:04:25,392 --> 01:04:30,802
So, some of you might want to take a look at some of the [missed word, check] material.

851
01:04:30,802 --> 01:04:32,961
As somebody else mentioned the SRA, by the way,

852
01:04:32,961 --> 01:04:34,559
and I don't have it in this talk,

853
01:04:34,559 --> 01:04:40,597
but I -- some of you may be familiar with Tom Robb's work on graded readers.

854
01:04:40,597 --> 01:04:43,313
Charles Brown has also been doing a lot of work in that.

855
01:04:43,313 --> 01:04:50,481
And graded readers are clearly examples of material that fits into this.

856
01:04:50,481 --> 01:04:54,280
The difference is, they're not freely available.

857
01:04:54,280 --> 01:04:57,983
Unless somebody has come up with a really good collection that I don't know about yet,

858
01:04:57,983 --> 01:05:02,526
you're always stuck with having to pay a fair amount to a publisher

859
01:05:02,526 --> 01:05:06,135
to get the graded readers, and they're not authentic,

860
01:05:06,135 --> 01:05:08,126
but I think they're useful enough,

861
01:05:08,126 --> 01:05:11,458
like, I don't think that authenticity is all that great a thing if you're --

862
01:05:11,458 --> 01:05:15,177
if you're still at a lower level and just trying to get the language in.

863
01:05:15,177 --> 01:05:21,750
So, I think, something that's well-written and, you know, well-produced,

864
01:05:21,750 --> 01:05:27,606
to me, whether it's technically authentic or not is a secondary issue.

865
01:05:27,606 --> 01:05:33,815
My key here is this idea of freely available, and often it's not.

866
01:05:33,815 --> 01:05:37,280
OK. Let me go ahead and stop again:

867
01:05:37,280 --> 01:05:40,602
the, you know, the final comments and the reference list and all of that,

868
01:05:40,602 --> 01:05:42,983
you can get if you go to the PDF yourself

869
01:05:42,983 --> 01:05:49,501
but I do want to give people a chance, especially some of those who have, you know,

870
01:05:49,501 --> 01:05:52,271
either put things over in the chat

871
01:05:52,271 --> 01:05:56,392
or who have read things over in the chat that look interesting,

872
01:05:56,392 --> 01:05:59,057
and certainly the participants here.

873
01:05:59,057 --> 01:06:05,059
What -- what questions and comments do we have?

874
01:06:05,059 --> 01:06:08,767
>> Stevens: Claude Almansi has arrived in the chat

875
01:06:08,767 --> 01:06:14,228
but she's shy about coming in because she hasn't heard the whole conversation,

876
01:06:14,228 --> 01:06:17,733
but anyway: I guess she could if she wanted.

877
01:06:17,733 --> 01:06:22,726
There are seven people in the chat now, so we have -- that is, in the hangout --

878
01:06:22,726 --> 01:06:25,561
so we have room for three.

879
01:06:25,561 --> 01:06:29,068
>> Buckingham: Hi Phil, I just wanted to add, I think that this is
>>Hubbard: Uh uh

880
01:06:29,068 --> 01:06:31,834
>> Buckingham: This -- it lit a light bulb for me.

881
01:06:31,834 --> 01:06:35,398
I just thought this getting a group of people together,

882
01:06:35,398 --> 01:06:41,646
use this kind, this style of approach to collecting transcripts

883
01:06:41,646 --> 01:06:43,481
and analyzing the transcripts

884
01:06:43,481 --> 01:06:46,593
and the being able to put them, I don't know where,

885
01:06:46,593 --> 01:06:48,463
somewhere up in the cloud,

886
01:06:48,463 --> 01:06:52,169
I mean over time, you could have quite an assortment of these readings

887
01:06:52,169 --> 01:06:58,628
to be shared collectively, and then, basically, circumvent the SRA

888
01:06:58,628 --> 01:07:00,362
and the [missed words - check].

889
01:07:00,362 --> 01:07:02,938
This would be fantastic.

890
01:07:02,938 --> 01:07:04,501
Just thinking aloud here.

891
01:07:04,501 --> 01:07:10,028
>> Hubbard: Well it's, you know, certainly part of what I'm trying to do here,

892
01:07:10,028 --> 01:07:13,901
because I don't have the time that I wish I did for this,

893
01:07:13,901 --> 01:07:21,146
you know, is to both encourage other people to be interested in it

894
01:07:21,146 --> 01:07:26,233
and get into, whether they're formal or informal collaborative projects

895
01:07:26,233 --> 01:07:28,144
for putting stuff together,

896
01:07:28,144 --> 01:07:31,762
and then, secondly, just for experimenting for yourself,

897
01:07:31,762 --> 01:07:38,434
because this is something that I've thought about a lot, I've done some reading in,

898
01:07:38,434 --> 01:07:42,811
and I've also tried things along the way

899
01:07:42,811 --> 01:07:44,981
and have ideas about how to make it better,

900
01:07:44,981 --> 01:07:49,148
but it's still very much in its infancy.

901
01:07:49,148 --> 01:07:57,257
And this is if -- if is the subtitle of Rosenbaum's book is that, you know,

902
01:07:57,257 --> 01:08:01,311
content is the -- curation is the future of content,

903
01:08:01,311 --> 01:08:04,610
then this is something we need to get better at

904
01:08:04,610 --> 01:08:08,267
and be thinking about that for different purposes,

905
01:08:08,267 --> 01:08:12,900
so, if you're curating materials, for example, for teachers to use in classrooms,

906
01:08:12,900 --> 01:08:16,727
that could be quite different from curating materials

907
01:08:16,727 --> 01:08:19,468
that you're going to have the students use independently.

908
01:08:19,468 --> 01:08:21,625
It could hopefully overlap quite a bit,

909
01:08:21,625 --> 01:08:24,532
but it won't be the same.

910
01:08:24,532 --> 01:08:31,151
And curating materials for cultural purposes, or for triggering discussions,

911
01:08:31,151 --> 01:08:33,978
is not going to be the same as the way I've curated here,

912
01:08:33,978 --> 01:08:40,679
you know, where I'm more concerned with level than other people might be,

913
01:08:40,679 --> 01:08:42,869
whereas others might be more concerned with the content itself

914
01:08:42,869 --> 01:08:46,828
and, you know, don't have a problem with letting people listen to it

915
01:08:46,828 --> 01:08:49,526
with subtitles in their native language.

916
01:08:51,372 --> 01:08:56,845
Or, you know, with sort of getting the gist of it without necessarily getting all the details.

917
01:08:56,845 --> 01:09:00,769
So there is a -- there's a very rich area here to explore in lots of different directions.

918
01:09:00,769 --> 01:09:04,159
What I try to do too, is keep the curation pretty light.

919
01:09:04,788 --> 01:09:07,486
When I've given this talk before, a couple of times,

920
01:09:07,486 --> 01:09:11,520
people often come up with ideas for, you know,

921
01:09:11,520 --> 01:09:15,651
adding discussion questions, basically making it more,

922
01:09:15,651 --> 01:09:19,065
into more lesson-like and adding --

923
01:09:19,065 --> 01:09:21,455
in other words, having more value added.

924
01:09:21,455 --> 01:09:22,955
And I think that's great.

925
01:09:23,601 --> 01:09:27,063
I'm trying to come up with sort of an intermediate stage

926
01:09:27,063 --> 01:09:29,147
where I'm doing something that's helpful,

927
01:09:29,515 --> 01:09:34,639
but not something that -- that I wouldn't have time to do otherwise.

928
01:09:39,775 --> 01:09:41,405
Are there questions, comments?

929
01:09:49,264 --> 01:09:55,914
I see there is a lot of people talking about SRA [<i>laughs</i>] over in the chat.

930
01:09:55,914 --> 01:09:57,314
>> Stevens: [missed words - check]
>> Hubbard: Yeah.

931
01:09:57,667 --> 01:09:59,771
>> Hubbard: So for those of you would be listening [missed words check]

932
01:09:59,771 --> 01:10:03,021
I'd be looking SRA Science Research Associates is a --

933
01:10:03,021 --> 01:10:07,614
a set of graded readers that was very popular in the US,

934
01:10:08,244 --> 01:10:12,015
probably going back to the 1960's, 1970's.

935
01:10:12,631 --> 01:10:15,435
I remember using it in my first reading lab

936
01:10:15,435 --> 01:10:18,453
when I was teaching in the early 80's and it's,

937
01:10:19,099 --> 01:10:22,717
unless it's changed, it's designed for native speakers materials,

938
01:10:22,717 --> 01:10:29,514
but it's aimed at trying to lead you step by step into reading proficiency.

939
01:10:29,514 --> 01:10:33,667
And it's a fairly traditional approach of, you know, read,

940
01:10:33,667 --> 01:10:36,177
respond to comprehension questions and so on,

941
01:10:36,177 --> 01:10:40,146
but it does have -- it does timed readings and some other things as well,

942
01:10:40,146 --> 01:10:44,697
and is very much in the general graded readers approach.

943
01:10:48,818 --> 01:10:50,902
Oops, perhaps I'm not hearing you.

944
01:11:00,515 --> 01:11:03,683
>> Stevens: [missed word check], how about this one. Oops.

945
01:11:03,683 --> 01:11:05,244
Is that working? OK, yeah.

946
01:11:05,244 --> 01:11:09,768
My USB went out, now I'm on word mike [check]

947
01:11:09,768 --> 01:11:15,671
OK, well, anyway, I was saying that I have some perspectives on this,

948
01:11:15,671 --> 01:11:22,407
having seen you present some of this at the TESOL conference in the KIS group.

949
01:11:22,407 --> 01:11:24,854
Your focus was a little bit different at that time,

950
01:11:24,854 --> 01:11:27,394
it was on the videos themselves.

951
01:11:28,240 --> 01:11:33,057
And I wonder if you have a link to that presentation

952
01:11:33,057 --> 01:11:33,987
that you could put in there,

953
01:11:33,987 --> 01:11:36,879
because there were really nice examples of what you can do with this,

954
01:11:37,417 --> 01:11:39,930
as far as finding graded materials for your students,

955
01:11:39,930 --> 01:11:44,794
and -- because I think you had those organized in such a way that they started simple

956
01:11:44,794 --> 01:11:47,280
and went to more difficult.

957
01:11:47,807 --> 01:11:51,633
>> Hubbard: Right, the materials and I think what I did in that talk

958
01:11:51,633 --> 01:11:57,373
is basically walk through the -- the ted1 web page.

959
01:11:58,034 --> 01:12:01,838
And so if you go to that link that we've already -- that I've already put in there,

960
01:12:01,838 --> 01:12:03,873
the one that ends in ted1--
>> Stevens: yeah

961
01:12:03,873 --> 01:12:06,732
>> Hubbard: let me see for sure if I can bring it up here

962
01:12:06,732 --> 01:12:08,861
>> Stevens: I might be able to do that.

963
01:12:10,445 --> 01:12:13,761
OK, yeah, I probably got that here: here we go.

964
01:12:13,761 --> 01:12:15,299
Yes, I got it here.

965
01:12:15,683 --> 01:12:18,203
>> Hubbard: Yeah, so that gives a little bit the back --

966
01:12:18,203 --> 01:12:23,637
one of the problems is this particular long scrolling web page

967
01:12:23,637 --> 01:12:27,282
that needs to be broken up and do a little bit of a hierarchy.

968
01:12:27,282 --> 01:12:30,839
But for right now, this is sort of what I have available.

969
01:12:31,209 --> 01:12:35,685
So it gives a little bit of background, if it's the one I think it is,

970
01:12:35,685 --> 01:12:40,153
let me double-check here and -- It's not up on the main screen

971
01:12:40,153 --> 01:12:42,446
so I'll have to --

972
01:12:44,738 --> 01:12:47,392
>> Stevens: Would it be this one? Yes. We -- have I got it up there now?

973
01:12:48,561 --> 01:12:50,361
>> Hubbard: Errh, that's the one, yeah.

974
01:12:50,392 --> 01:12:51,717
[Stevens and Hubbard overlap]

975
01:12:51,717 --> 01:12:53,378
>> Hubbard: This is actually what the students see.

976
01:12:53,378 --> 01:13:02,317
So this is really for them.
>> Stevens: You've got to find the window --

977
01:13:08,485 --> 01:13:11,668
>> Hubbard: And so again, it explains, you know, how I have --

978
01:13:13,407 --> 01:13:16,243
I've -- the material that's in there,

979
01:13:16,243 --> 01:13:18,191
the support material that's in there for the students

980
01:13:19,514 --> 01:13:23,126
And then this is the example group 1,

981
01:13:23,126 --> 01:13:25,099
the first one I did was on creativity

982
01:13:25,099 --> 01:13:27,018
and I said that one is a little easier,

983
01:13:27,018 --> 01:13:29,997
because sometimes the students want to have some idea of --

984
01:13:30,658 --> 01:13:33,508
that was just my impression that it was easier.

985
01:13:34,831 --> 01:13:39,867
And so it starts with -- you can see the words per minute speed on this,

986
01:13:39,867 --> 01:13:46,403
since 91, the vocabulary is relatively easier,you know,

987
01:13:46,403 --> 01:13:51,677
95.4 at the 5K level, it's a US standard.

988
01:13:51,677 --> 01:13:53,953
It does have a, you know,

989
01:13:54,384 --> 01:14:02,171
almost no student who takes this actually knows the word "tinker", going in,

990
01:14:03,048 --> 01:14:04,950
and this is about the "tinkering school".

991
01:14:04,950 --> 01:14:07,512
So, one of things, if I had a little more time,

992
01:14:07,512 --> 01:14:10,861
is that I would add under the comment, instead of just saying:

993
01:14:10,861 --> 01:14:12,934
"Some good vocabulary to learn,"

994
01:14:12,934 --> 01:14:15,205
I would probably define the word "tinker" there,

995
01:14:17,696 --> 01:14:21,039
without spending too much more time:

996
01:14:21,039 --> 01:14:22,877
just looking at this, it reminds me.

997
01:14:22,877 --> 01:14:27,197
The second one, also fairly short, is the one I already mentioned,

998
01:14:27,197 --> 01:14:30,091
on the "Do the Green Thing."

999
01:14:30,614 --> 01:14:33,861
The third one, students find this really interesting.

1000
01:14:33,861 --> 01:14:39,274
It's a 12-year old giving a talk on what adults can learn from kids.

1001
01:14:39,274 --> 01:14:44,690
She speaks faster, but the vocabulary level is a little bit lower. [1:14:44]

1002
01:14:47,807 --> 01:14:52,958
And it's kind of inspiring to them to see what 12-year olds can talk about.

1003
01:14:54,526 --> 01:14:59,068
The next one -- the last one there, "Amy Tan on creativity,"

1004
01:14:59,083 --> 01:15:02,351
because, as I mentioned, I have so many Chinese students in my group,

1005
01:15:02,351 --> 01:15:04,799
this is a, you know, a Chinese-American

1006
01:15:04,799 --> 01:15:07,669
who writes about the Chinese-American experience.

1007
01:15:09,898 --> 01:15:13,664
Interestingly, you'd kind of expect somebody from literature

1008
01:15:13,664 --> 01:15:16,156
to maybe be using high-level language,

1009
01:15:16,156 --> 01:15:20,106
but her vocabulary profile is actually the easiest.

1010
01:15:20,967 --> 01:15:29,340
So, 97.5% at the 5K or below, 96% at the first 3'000 words level.

1011
01:15:29,340 --> 01:15:34,158
So this one, in terms of accessibility for vocabulary, is by far the easiest.

1012
01:15:34,158 --> 01:15:38,547
It is, however, also longer

1013
01:15:39,377 --> 01:15:45,678
and because of that, its 
-- OK, I have to

1014
01:15:47,369 --> 01:15:51,505
I got a -- a little thing popped up on my screen:

1015
01:15:51,505 --> 01:15:55,568
that's David Wexler "Open Capture" smile.

1016
01:15:56,121 --> 01:15:59,115
So, am I supposed to click "Open capture"?
[Stevens giggles]

1017
01:16:01,868 --> 01:16:03,209
>> Hubbard: Anybody know?

1018
01:16:03,547 --> 01:16:04,739
>> Stevens: I don't know.
>> Hubbard: they are saying [check]

1019
01:16:04,739 --> 01:16:07,928
Sorry, mistake, no, sorry, mis-clicking up there [check]

1020
01:16:08,959 --> 01:16:10,566
I'm gonna -- I'm just going to close that window

1021
01:16:10,566 --> 01:16:12,780
because now I can't see the rest of my stuff.

1022
01:16:12,780 --> 01:16:18,409
[laughs] I'll be happy to send a photo to you if you'd like.

1023
01:16:18,409 --> 01:16:22,425
[Stevens laughs]
>> Hubbard: even autographed.

1024
01:16:23,440 --> 01:16:25,648
OK, so that was one group.

1025
01:16:25,815 --> 01:16:30,043
The next group, the one on humor, you'll notice the --

1026
01:16:30,043 --> 01:16:31,727
I tell them the overall time on these,

1027
01:16:31,727 --> 01:16:34,630
so this one's like about 40 minutes long

1028
01:16:35,322 --> 01:16:40,287
It begins with this talk, which has actually very little English in it,

1029
01:16:40,287 --> 01:16:43,926
but it is a -- this is an example of what happens in curation.

1030
01:16:44,510 --> 01:16:47,613
The talk by itself isn't that useful for language learning,

1031
01:16:47,613 --> 01:16:50,546
but it sets the stage very much for the first --

1032
01:16:50,546 --> 01:16:52,446
for the next two talks that follow it.

1033
01:16:53,215 --> 01:16:55,621
"The TED speaker's worst nightmare",

1034
01:16:56,113 --> 01:16:57,689
the guy starts to talk and then

1035
01:16:58,735 --> 01:17:02,079
-- much as I experienced this morning when I was trying to get in here --

1036
01:17:02,970 --> 01:17:05,682
runs into some significant technical difficulty.

1037
01:17:07,420 --> 01:17:09,842
And then, the next one on, "Gotta share" is --

1038
01:17:10,801 --> 01:17:14,848
is actually one of the talks,

1039
01:17:14,848 --> 01:17:18,930
it's not technically a TED talk, but it's something posted on the TED website.

1040
01:17:18,930 --> 01:17:22,627
It has all the -- it has the text support

1041
01:17:22,627 --> 01:17:27,421
although it doesn't have a -- it doesn't have a transcript.

1042
01:17:27,821 --> 01:17:33,359
So you -- but it's actually sort of a musical about social media that's--

1043
01:17:33,359 --> 01:17:34,997
that's quite interesting.

1044
01:17:34,997 --> 01:17:38,235
And specially as a lot of my students actually, you know,

1045
01:17:38,235 --> 01:17:40,088
they know about Facebook

1046
01:17:40,088 --> 01:17:43,556
but they don't know about things like vimeo,

1047
01:17:43,556 --> 01:17:47,293
they don't recognize the reference to MySpace,

1048
01:17:47,939 --> 01:17:49,608
where the character says, you know --

1049
01:17:49,608 --> 01:17:50,984
"Is anybody else on MySpace?"

1050
01:17:50,984 --> 01:17:52,345
and everybody says "No,"

1051
01:17:52,345 --> 01:17:57,893
you know, that one [check], FourSquare, and a whole bunch of social media points [check]

1052
01:17:57,893 --> 01:18:05,399
So, it's a very entertaining song

1053
01:18:06,137 --> 01:18:07,883
but it's also built into --

1054
01:18:08,959 --> 01:18:10,735
well, I don't want to give it away too much,

1055
01:18:10,735 --> 01:18:12,127
in case you want to go and see it.

1056
01:18:12,127 --> 01:18:15,480
But the third one, "The shared experience of absurdity,"

1057
01:18:15,480 --> 01:18:20,384
is actually by the guy who organized those first two.

1058
01:18:20,860 --> 01:18:25,649
So it's more of an academic-style TED talk about, you know,

1059
01:18:25,649 --> 01:18:29,897
why they go out and do these sorts of things.

1060
01:18:30,373 --> 01:18:33,590
Among other things, he describes how bigger the project,

1061
01:18:33,590 --> 01:18:38,052
where people kept getting on without their pants on

1062
01:18:38,052 --> 01:18:39,767
at different subway stops in New York

1063
01:18:39,767 --> 01:18:42,314
and then they filmed the crowd's response to that.

1064
01:18:44,128 --> 01:18:45,904
He talks a whole lot faster.

1065
01:18:46,442 --> 01:18:49,447
His vocabulary, though, is at a fairly accessible level:

1066
01:18:49,447 --> 01:18:52,970
look at that: 98.4% at the 5'000 and below.

1067
01:18:52,970 --> 01:18:54,854
He's talking more conversationally.

1068
01:18:54,854 --> 01:18:58,352
It is interesting that often what we see in TED talks,

1069
01:18:58,352 --> 01:19:00,697
and probably in other ones as well,

1070
01:19:00,697 --> 01:19:03,219
is that the faster the speech rate becomes,

1071
01:19:03,695 --> 01:19:06,733
the lower the vocabulary rate is.

1072
01:19:06,733 --> 01:19:10,671
That, I think. would make a really nice Master's thesis sometime,

1073
01:19:10,671 --> 01:19:12,324
to see if that actually happens

1074
01:19:13,262 --> 01:19:17,231
but just impressionistically, I see a lot of that going on here.

1075
01:19:17,231 --> 01:19:19,856
It doesn't seem to be the case with the next one, though,

1076
01:19:20,609 --> 01:19:23,776
which is, this one is called "Sherman the" --

1077
01:19:24,591 --> 01:19:27,681
"Learning from Sherman the Shark" and it's actually the next --

1078
01:19:29,065 --> 01:19:31,412
I'm sorry, the next two --

1079
01:19:32,396 --> 01:19:33,880
Oops, I mixed myself up there.

1080
01:19:33,880 --> 01:19:38,312
So, Number 4 is the one that was at 98.4%.

1081
01:19:38,312 --> 01:19:43,281
So this is by Liza Donnelly who's a New York --

1082
01:19:43,281 --> 01:19:45,113
a New Yorker cartoonist,

1083
01:19:45,113 --> 01:19:47,757
in fact actually the first woman to do --

1084
01:19:48,433 --> 01:19:50,675
to be a cartoonist for the New Yorker

1085
01:19:50,675 --> 01:19:52,744
and talks about that experience.

1086
01:19:54,158 --> 01:19:58,656
Knowing the phrases like "the glass ceiling", which shows up in that talk.

1087
01:19:58,656 --> 01:20:02,313
And then another cartoonist, so we have two kind of related talks,

1088
01:20:04,835 --> 01:20:06,204
finishes that one out.

1089
01:20:06,227 --> 01:20:10,489
I may not go through all these, but you can see the last group is on the brain.

1090
01:20:11,426 --> 01:20:12,925
I have a certain percentage of students

1091
01:20:12,925 --> 01:20:16,718
who are either directly or indirectly interested in that topic.

1092
01:20:17,502 --> 01:20:19,155
So I will go ahead and

1093
01:20:21,046 --> 01:20:23,815
let you all explore that one on your own.

1094
01:20:24,940 --> 01:20:27,964
Vance, I see we're starting to lose people, so --

1095
01:20:30,671 --> 01:20:33,126
>> Stevens: Yeah [missed words check]
>> Hubbard: What would you like to do here? -- yeah.

1096
01:20:33,664 --> 01:20:35,487
>> Stevens: Can you hear me?
>> Hubbard: Yes.

1097
01:20:35,487 --> 01:20:37,780
>> Stevens: Yeah, I guess when we've got to that point about brain

1098
01:20:37,780 --> 01:20:39,833
that sort of faded [check].

1099
01:20:39,833 --> 01:20:42,668
[They laugh]

1100
01:20:42,668 --> 01:20:44,598
>> Stevens: Well, I'll tell you what:

1101
01:20:44,598 --> 01:20:47,824
It's kind of getting towards dinner time here --

1102
01:20:47,824 --> 01:20:50,195
>> Hubbard: Yes.
>> Stevens: And maybe breakfast time for you,

1103
01:20:50,810 --> 01:20:56,206
and I sort of -- I feel like we got two presentations in one, there.

1104
01:20:56,206 --> 01:20:57,659
That's really nice.

1105
01:20:57,659 --> 01:21:00,200
Two discussions, or how we want to put it.

1106
01:21:00,200 --> 01:21:04,325
Well obviously, people are, you know, I mean

1107
01:21:04,325 --> 01:21:08,833
you said earlier that you didn't have time yourself for all this

1108
01:21:08,833 --> 01:21:13,072
but it's -- but you planned to see it in others, you know,

1109
01:21:13,072 --> 01:21:17,238
but by making things open and free and accessible

1110
01:21:17,238 --> 01:21:21,538
and by giving -- by talking about it in various venues,

1111
01:21:21,538 --> 01:21:24,920
face to face, online, you know, you give people ideas

1112
01:21:24,920 --> 01:21:26,435
and that's -- that will, you know.

1113
01:21:26,435 --> 01:21:27,196
Now, go ahead.

1114
01:21:27,196 --> 01:21:29,111
>> Hubbard: Right, I will put one challenge out there,

1115
01:21:29,111 --> 01:21:33,530
because I'm -- I'm really interested in this myself,

1116
01:21:33,530 --> 01:21:38,276
because of all the work I do with people outside of Stanford as well,

1117
01:21:38,276 --> 01:21:42,826
who don't have the advantage of the level of students that I have

1118
01:21:42,826 --> 01:21:46,946
in terms of, you know, already being at the TOFL level,

1119
01:21:46,946 --> 01:21:49,485
high enough to get into the university here,

1120
01:21:50,315 --> 01:21:55,715
I would like to see collections that are more targeted at, you know,

1121
01:21:55,715 --> 01:22:00,168
the high, beginning, low-intermediate level.

1122
01:22:00,506 --> 01:22:06,092
And I have had trouble finding clusters of material

1123
01:22:06,092 --> 01:22:07,807
that really do that.

1124
01:22:07,807 --> 01:22:11,171
Again, as I said, when I look at the CLILSTORE material,

1125
01:22:12,063 --> 01:22:14,972
a lot of that, I think, linguistically at least,

1126
01:22:14,972 --> 01:22:18,209
even though it may be tagged at A1 or A2 level,

1127
01:22:18,716 --> 01:22:22,634
isn't really at that level: It may be usable in <i>classes</i> at that level,

1128
01:22:22,634 --> 01:22:23,856
but that's different.

1129
01:22:25,609 --> 01:22:28,058
>> Stevens: Have you -- have your students do this!

1130
01:22:28,058 --> 01:22:32,681
You said that they don't have a lot of time, but still, you know the --

1131
01:22:32,681 --> 01:22:36,202
>> Hubbard: Yeah. Well, if I -- if my students were going to do it,

1132
01:22:36,202 --> 01:22:38,117
they would be doing it at <i>their</i> level

1133
01:22:38,117 --> 01:22:41,582
and it wouldn't be -- they wouldn't be looking for stuff at lower levels.

1134
01:22:42,781 --> 01:22:44,742
And I -- it's just, you know, as we well know,

1135
01:22:44,742 --> 01:22:50,397
you know, the number of people who are at lower levels of English, still learning,

1136
01:22:50,413 --> 01:22:54,110
is much, much greater than those at a higher level,

1137
01:22:54,110 --> 01:23:04,356
Then the value sort of, globally, for a curated collection would be much higher

1138
01:23:04,356 --> 01:23:13,027
if people could find, you know, short -- short pieces that otherwise met those criteria,

1139
01:23:13,027 --> 01:23:17,221
of being stable and freely available and having the -- the language support.

1140
01:23:17,821 --> 01:23:21,654
I don't know to what extent, you know, the CLILSTORE will get there:

1141
01:23:21,654 --> 01:23:23,723
I've only explored pieces of it

1142
01:23:23,723 --> 01:23:28,664
but it doesn't seem to be quite there yet.

1143
01:23:30,663 --> 01:23:34,431
It's great for many other reasons

1144
01:23:34,431 --> 01:23:36,869
and I strongly recommend, if you haven't explored that one,

1145
01:23:36,869 --> 01:23:43,099
that you take a look at it and consider donating to it as well, if you have materials.

1146
01:23:45,620 --> 01:23:50,113
Right, so, I got more people moving on.

1147
01:23:50,113 --> 01:23:52,106
A couple of people are still hanging in here with us.

1148
01:23:52,106 --> 01:23:54,804
Anybody have other comments?

1149
01:24:01,908 --> 01:24:06,386
>> Stevens: Yeah, I'm looking in the text -- in the Etherpad chat.

1150
01:24:06,386 --> 01:24:12,469
The -- I don't know, if someone else wants to make a comment?

1151
01:24:15,468 --> 01:24:20,204
Ah! Peggy makes - points out that there is a separate chat in the hangout,

1152
01:24:20,204 --> 01:24:21,227
and we're not seeing that.

1153
01:24:21,227 --> 01:24:24,064
You know, what [missed words check] tried to do

1154
01:24:24,064 --> 01:24:28,456
is get people NOT to interact in the hangout,

1155
01:24:28,456 --> 01:24:30,682
this doesn't seem to work

1156
01:24:30,682 --> 01:24:32,863
but anyway, I suppose about, you know --

1157
01:24:32,863 --> 01:24:37,995
I was thinking about that when some of the links were posted earlier in the, you know, chat,

1158
01:24:37,995 --> 01:24:43,049
I tried, actually tried to copy them and pasted them into the Etherpad chat.

1159
01:24:43,049 --> 01:24:46,762
Yes there -- we sort of really -- I've been doing this in the Etherpad chat

1160
01:24:46,762 --> 01:24:48,415
so we keep it a little bit together.

1161
01:24:48,415 --> 01:24:53,138
That's one thing I learned from Jeff [missed words check] minute, so

1162
01:24:53,146 --> 01:24:54,568
[Hubard laughs]

1163
01:24:54,568 --> 01:24:57,156
>> Stevens: Yeah, sorry about that, Peggy, we'll try next time.

1164
01:24:57,786 --> 01:25:03,998
I'll probably enforce that. Anyway --
>> Hubbard: Somebody got their finger up.

1165
01:25:04,905 --> 01:25:09,750
>> Stevens: Ah ah.
>> Hubbard [missed words check] [laughs]

1166
01:25:11,742 --> 01:25:13,595
>> Stevens: No, he's got to unmute himself [check] and he's done that.

1167
01:25:13,595 --> 01:25:17,408
>> Hubbard: Ah. OK. Hello!

1168
01:25:17,408 --> 01:25:20,069
>> David [check surname]: Can I -- I can unmute myself.

1169
01:25:20,069 --> 01:25:21,429
>> Hubbard: Hi David.

1170
01:25:23,398 --> 01:25:25,513
>> Stevens: You just muted yourself again.

1171
01:25:25,513 --> 01:25:29,208
You did unmute yourself, now carry on.
>> Hubbard: that's right [check]

1172
01:25:29,208 --> 01:25:34,310
>> Michael: Oh. the line stays through the microphone as though it's muted.

1173
01:25:35,509 --> 01:25:37,809
But it changes from red to black, I guess.

1174
01:25:37,809 --> 01:25:40,569
>> Hubbard: Yeah, I had that problem too.

1175
01:25:40,569 --> 01:25:43,002
>> Michael: That's visuals, Google!

1176
01:25:43,002 --> 01:25:49,979
Uh, so I've been posting a little bit enthusiastically in the Google text chat,

1177
01:25:49,979 --> 01:25:54,165
so you guys may not have seen it, because I don't know where the Etherpad is,

1178
01:25:54,165 --> 01:25:56,542
but who cares, at this point?

1179
01:25:57,388 --> 01:25:59,411
But I just wanted to mention, Phil:

1180
01:25:59,411 --> 01:26:04,319
Helen Young has been a scholar connected with Stanford

1181
01:26:04,319 --> 01:26:07,258
who lives in Palo Alto and is the mother of my brother-in-law.

1182
01:26:08,011 --> 01:26:09,955
I don't know if you've interacted with her,

1183
01:26:09,955 --> 01:26:13,096
but she spent a fair amount of time, you know,

1184
01:26:13,096 --> 01:26:16,695
close to twenty years, maybe, working at Beijing,

1185
01:26:16,695 --> 01:26:22,045
and writing a book about the women on the Long March

1186
01:26:22,045 --> 01:26:25,808
who she interviewed as much older women, you know,

1187
01:26:25,808 --> 01:26:28,513
probably in the 90's and early 2000's,

1188
01:26:28,513 --> 01:26:32,794
which is called "Women of the Revolution" -- "Choosing Revolution,"

1189
01:26:33,363 --> 01:26:35,870
which Stanford University Press published.

1190
01:26:35,870 --> 01:26:38,239
But I did a quick search for her

1191
01:26:38,239 --> 01:26:42,311
and although she's not really on the Stanford website,

1192
01:26:42,311 --> 01:26:47,665
there's a link to digital recordings of her interviews,

1193
01:26:47,665 --> 01:26:51,460
complete with translations, and I think, transcripts.

1194
01:26:51,460 --> 01:26:56,709
I -- the -- I don't know if you can open the chat in Google,

1195
01:26:56,709 --> 01:27:00,460
but the -- the link to it I posted there
>> Stevens [check]: OK.

1196
01:27:00,460 --> 01:27:02,973
>> Michael: A number of, you know, 20 minutes ago, maybe.

1197
01:27:02,973 --> 01:27:08,404
But, you know, whether that's a topic of interest to any of your students,

1198
01:27:08,404 --> 01:27:11,848
because it's, you know, interesting historical China stuff.

1199
01:27:11,848 --> 01:27:16,220
But I had no idea that there was actually, you know,

1200
01:27:16,220 --> 01:27:18,949
sound recordings along with the transcripts.

1201
01:27:18,949 --> 01:27:22,466
I'm assuming -- I don't know it they're in --

1202
01:27:22,466 --> 01:27:25,961
I'm guessing they were in Chinese originally, the records --

1203
01:27:25,961 --> 01:27:27,184
>> Hubbard: That would be my guess too.

1204
01:27:27,184 --> 01:27:33,733
Which might make this repository actually valuable to the people learning Chinese here.

1205
01:27:34,563 --> 01:27:36,826
>> Michael: Right, and apparently it's not online

1206
01:27:36,826 --> 01:27:44,084
but somewhere, her papers on -- her research for this project is somehow connected to Stanford.

1207
01:27:44,084 --> 01:27:45,922
>> Hubbard: OK, Well, we have --

1208
01:27:46,691 --> 01:27:49,938
various libraries here have collections of papers

1209
01:27:49,938 --> 01:27:53,714
and it may be that they are inside one of the libraries. I'll --

1210
01:27:53,714 --> 01:27:55,429
So it's Y-A-N-G?

1211
01:27:55,429 --> 01:28:03,871
>> Michael: Yeah. Just Google it and it'll come up with, you know, a link to Amazon for the book.

1212
01:28:03,871 --> 01:28:07,682
But my sister and her kids and my brother-in-law,

1213
01:28:08,266 --> 01:28:14,009
two Summers ago, in the Summer of 2011, were on, essentially a book tour

1214
01:28:14,009 --> 01:28:15,555
for two weeks in China,

1215
01:28:15,555 --> 01:28:22,235
because the original English publication had been translated five years later into Chinese

1216
01:28:22,235 --> 01:28:26,978
and my nephew, who's now a college student,

1217
01:28:26,978 --> 01:28:31,723
two days after his high-school graduation, was, you know, flying to China

1218
01:28:31,723 --> 01:28:33,391
for a kind of whirlwind tour,

1219
01:28:33,391 --> 01:28:38,375
so it was an interesting cultural experience for my sister and her family.

1220
01:28:41,744 --> 01:28:44,462
>> Hubbard: OK. Shall we call it a day, Vance?

1221
01:28:44,462 --> 01:28:47,629
>> Stevens: Let's do and just a point of reference:

1222
01:28:47,629 --> 01:28:50,020
David put some links in earlier,

1223
01:28:50,020 --> 01:28:56,230
so if you scroll up, maybe you can find some of the links that he referred you to. But --

1224
01:28:56,230 --> 01:28:58,958
>> Hubbard: OK. 
>> Stevens: -- Well, this is learning together,

1225
01:28:58,958 --> 01:29:01,417
this is typical learning together that actually goes on

1226
01:29:02,201 --> 01:29:04,131
just as long as we want it to. I love that.

1227
01:29:04,669 --> 01:29:09,627
And anyway, it's still December 8, 2013.

1228
01:29:09,627 --> 01:29:16,175
We've been talking with Dr. Phil Hubbard who is a good friend and professor at Stanford

1229
01:29:16,805 --> 01:29:22,417
and director of the English program there, the ESL program.

1230
01:29:23,140 --> 01:29:27,344
So, well, and he's been telling us about curation

1231
01:29:27,344 --> 01:29:34,466
and how he applies it to a database of TED talks videos and that's really cool.

1232
01:29:35,312 --> 01:29:36,858
So, thank you very much,

1233
01:29:36,858 --> 01:29:39,581
I really appreciate your spending your time with us this morning.

1234
01:29:39,581 --> 01:29:44,380
And I can see that a lot of other people have appreciated it as well.

1235
01:29:44,380 --> 01:29:47,456
>> Hubbard: All right, well, thanks and I hope to see --

1236
01:29:48,256 --> 01:29:50,658
well, I'll see <i>you</i> for sure in Portland

1237
01:29:50,658 --> 01:29:52,219
and I hope to see some of the rest of you

1238
01:29:52,219 --> 01:29:54,747
either there or at some other conference sometime.

1239
01:29:56,284 --> 01:29:57,537
All right, bye bye.

1240
01:29:57,537 --> 01:30:00,201
>> Stevens: OK: my cat says Bye --

1241
01:30:00,924 --> 01:30:04,148
>> Hubbard: Aw, that's cute --
>> Stevens: -- everybody! Yeah.

1242
01:30:04,148 --> 01:30:06,981
[Hubbard and Stevens laugh]

1243
01:30:06,981 --> 01:30:08,942
>> Stevens: OK, well, thanks very much,

1244
01:30:08,942 --> 01:30:13,035
I'll stop broadcasting and we'll leave the hangout on for a little bit,

1245
01:30:14,019 --> 01:30:15,453
just in -- because I want to try and capture some of the text chat.

1246
01:30:15,453 --> 01:30:16,887


1247
01:30:16,887 --> 01:30:18,323
[missed word check] I'll see if that works.

1248
01:30:18,323 --> 01:30:19,869
>> Hubbard: All right, thanks.

1249
01:30:19,869 --> 01:30:21,069
>> Stevens: OK, bye bye.

1250
01:30:22,553 --> 01:30:24,460
(Hangouts On Air)