1 00:00:02,250 --> 00:00:04,833 >> Vance Stevens: We're live! 2 00:00:04,833 --> 00:00:08,256 Hello, everybody. Somehow my video disappeared. 3 00:00:08,256 --> 00:00:12,643 It's there, but that's my - it's just an avatar format. 4 00:00:12,643 --> 00:00:13,201 [missed words] 5 00:00:13,201 --> 00:00:17,335 OK, well anyway, this is Vance Stevens in Abu Dhab... sorry, in L.A. 6 00:00:17,335 --> 00:00:20,140 I'm living in L.A. now, if you want to know where I'm living. 7 00:00:20,140 --> 00:00:21,533 Today is the 8th of December. 8 00:00:21,533 --> 00:00:25,155 They move me around so much, you know. 9 00:00:25,155 --> 00:00:30,064 And, anyway, it's the 8th of December 2013. 10 00:00:30,064 --> 00:00:33,420 We're talking with a good friend of mine, Phil Hubbard, 11 00:00:33,420 --> 00:00:38,039 from Stanford University in Palo Alto, California. 12 00:00:38,039 --> 00:00:44,940 And he's been doing some really neat stuff in Cal. 13 00:00:44,940 --> 00:00:48,606 I've known him for a long time in the Cal intersection Tea [missed words] 14 00:00:48,606 --> 00:00:50,243 >> Phil Hubbard: Since we were kids. 15 00:00:50,243 --> 00:00:53,546 >> Stevens: We were, 20 years ago [Hubbard laughs] 16 00:00:53,546 --> 00:00:57,998 >> Hubbard: reaching 30 [check] [background voice] 17 00:00:57,998 --> 00:01:03,036 >> Stevens: Someone has a -- someone needs to have a headset on. 18 00:01:03,036 --> 00:01:04,814 [missed words] is muted. 19 00:01:04,814 --> 00:01:10,499 Errh not sure: it could be someone listening to the stream. 20 00:01:10,499 --> 00:01:11,918 Yeah, if you're listening to the stream -- OK. 21 00:01:11,918 --> 00:01:13,499 Their call has gone away [check] 22 00:01:13,499 --> 00:01:15,047 Someone has corrected it, that's good. 23 00:01:15,047 --> 00:01:23,371 All right, well, OK. Someone has announced in the stream chat that they're listening to it there. 24 00:01:23,371 --> 00:01:25,999 So that's good, everything seems to be working. 25 00:01:25,999 --> 00:01:28,499 We're doing a Hangout on Air, as we often do. 26 00:01:28,499 --> 00:01:32,271 We're streaming it on webheadsinaction.org/live 27 00:01:32,271 --> 00:01:36,495 At the moment we have six people in the hangout, 28 00:01:36,495 --> 00:01:37,752 there's room for four more. 29 00:01:37,752 --> 00:01:41,914 So if anyone is listening on the stream and would like to join us, they can. 30 00:01:41,914 --> 00:01:47,998 And right now we've got Claire Siskin and Jim Buckingham, Rita Zeinstejer and 31 00:01:47,998 --> 00:01:59,105 let's see, and also Rob, Rob is there, and me, Vance Stevens. Rob Permanus, is that correct? 32 00:01:59,105 --> 00:02:05,665 Correct me if I'm wrong. Permanus, Permanus - how do you pronounce your name? 33 00:02:05,665 --> 00:02:09,245 >> Hubbard: You have to unmute him chuckles 34 00:02:09,245 --> 00:02:17,438 >> Stevens: it's Perhamus -- Perhamus, OK, Good, I'll never forget that again, all right. 35 00:02:17,438 --> 00:02:23,162 Thank you very much, Rob. Rob is an occasional participant in our hangouts. 36 00:02:23,162 --> 00:02:28,379 Well Phil, take it away and anybody who wants to -- 37 00:02:28,379 --> 00:02:31,826 by the way, you're all muted by default when you come into the hangout. 38 00:02:31,826 --> 00:02:33,777 You can unmute yourself. 39 00:02:33,777 --> 00:02:39,071 If you're going to unmute yourself and talk, please mute yourself again, 40 00:02:39,071 --> 00:02:43,199 so we don't get keyboard noises and things like that. 41 00:02:43,199 --> 00:02:48,005 And there's Elizabeth Anne, also shown up from Grenoble in France. 42 00:02:48,005 --> 00:02:53,204 And Halima [check] in Tashkent has also joined us, I see. 43 00:02:53,204 --> 00:02:55,367 >> Hubbard [check] I think we're great, well, hello, everybody. 44 00:02:55,367 --> 00:02:59,136 It's Good Morning for me, a little early in the morning, 45 00:02:59,136 --> 00:03:04,035 but the sun is beginning to show through the back window here. 46 00:03:04,035 --> 00:03:08,669 Thank you all for being here from all over the world. 47 00:03:08,669 --> 00:03:18,079 What I wanted to do today is talk about largely an idea and a project that I've been working on 48 00:03:18,079 --> 00:03:21,585 for the last couple of years, very sporadically. 49 00:03:21,585 --> 00:03:25,410 Unfortunately I get interrupted easily, as I'm sure all of you do, 50 00:03:25,410 --> 00:03:35,897 so what started out as a -- what I hoped was going to be a much more robust collection of materials 51 00:03:35,897 --> 00:03:39,579 has turned out to be a little more anemic 52 00:03:39,579 --> 00:03:44,415 but I still think that I have enough here that I can demonstrate the idea 53 00:03:44,415 --> 00:03:48,710 and especially share my thoughts about how to go 54 00:03:48,710 --> 00:03:55,746 about dealing with this relatively new notion of curation, 55 00:03:55,746 --> 00:04:01,083 although in some ways, maybe it's just a label for an old notion that we've had for quite some time. 56 00:04:01,083 --> 00:04:06,463 So, let me give you a little bit of the background, 57 00:04:06,463 --> 00:04:10,592 like several of the things I've worked on in the last few years, 58 00:04:10,592 --> 00:04:12,663 like learner training. 59 00:04:12,663 --> 00:04:17,979 This is something that has emerged out of my classroom experience 60 00:04:17,979 --> 00:04:21,939 with an advanced listening and vocabulary class, 61 00:04:21,939 --> 00:04:27,321 and I see Vance is showing some of the slides now. 62 00:04:27,321 --> 00:04:36,856 The class is for graduate students at Stanford 63 00:04:36,856 --> 00:04:42,469 and it's a really nice sandbox for playing with ideas, 64 00:04:42,469 --> 00:04:48,099 because these are -- well, they're all in graduate school already, 65 00:04:48,099 --> 00:04:57,270 they're, for the most part, in the high 90's onwards to the 100s in the TOEFL iBT 66 00:04:57,270 --> 00:04:59,100 so they really are advanced in that sense. 67 00:04:59,100 --> 00:05:06,054 And many of them are taking the course because we require them to do it. 68 00:05:06,054 --> 00:05:08,050 So they're kind of a captive audience 69 00:05:08,050 --> 00:05:12,065 but it's also a small course: we have a maximum 14 students in it 70 00:05:12,065 --> 00:05:22,370 and it allows me to not only play around with ideas, but get a chance to talk to the students afterward, 71 00:05:22,370 --> 00:05:29,890 not usually with formal research, but just informally as part of our normal tutorial sessions 72 00:05:29,890 --> 00:05:35,036 and find out what they thought about them and what I can do to make them work a little better. 73 00:05:37,512 --> 00:05:42,645 So, the problem that I noticed - an important part of this class 74 00:05:42,645 --> 00:05:45,288 is that students do independent projects 75 00:05:45,795 --> 00:05:52,906 and those independent projects are supposed to be for a minimum of three hours a week. 76 00:05:54,443 --> 00:05:59,941 Sounds like I am getting some echo in the background, but I will keep pushing through here.. 77 00:06:00,510 --> 00:06:03,404 Uhh.. those projects are for three hours a week 78 00:06:03,404 --> 00:06:09,411 and they are responsible for doing the selection of the material 79 00:06:09,411 --> 00:06:14,913 with my help and with my guidance both before and after. 80 00:06:16,528 --> 00:06:23,328 And over the years, I have discovered that they are actually not really good at that. 81 00:06:23,328 --> 00:06:27,032 What they are good at is finding material that is interesting to them. 82 00:06:27,385 --> 00:06:31,478 But, they are not necessarily good at finding material that helps them. 83 00:06:32,585 --> 00:06:38,933 They discover that on their own a little bit down the road 84 00:06:38,933 --> 00:06:41,643 and often it doesn't become clear to both of us 85 00:06:41,643 --> 00:06:46,655 because I have a very slow learning curve and quickly forget things. 86 00:06:46,655 --> 00:06:50,816 So, I get to the end of the class and then I go 87 00:06:50,816 --> 00:06:53,945 "Oh, I should have provided them with a little more guidance.". 88 00:06:53,945 --> 00:06:56,410 So, about 2 years ago, I started doing this 89 00:06:56,410 --> 00:06:59,926 and it came as a juxtaposition of a couple of things. 90 00:06:59,926 --> 00:07:05,399 First of all, just my own general interest in the development of autonomy had been growing 91 00:07:06,275 --> 00:07:11,533 and as I have gone out and collected materials that I would just use in class, 92 00:07:12,086 --> 00:07:16,977 it was pretty clear to me that there is a huge amount of really interesting materials out there. 93 00:07:17,899 --> 00:07:20,553 And people have been collecting these for a while 94 00:07:20,585 --> 00:07:24,330 and teachers have been building lessons out of them 95 00:07:24,899 --> 00:07:27,055 -- sometimes pretty sophisiticated lessons -- 96 00:07:27,516 --> 00:07:31,749 but I needed something that students could work with on their own. 97 00:07:32,241 --> 00:07:37,784 And so, I wanted to find a way to help them without just my advice 98 00:07:37,784 --> 00:07:41,513 as to how to look for materials, to actually start collecting materials 99 00:07:41,513 --> 00:07:44,729 in ways that would still give them quite a bit of freedom of choice 100 00:07:44,729 --> 00:07:52,101 but would also make it better as a language learning experience. 101 00:07:53,008 --> 00:07:58,163 As part of this course, they are also required to build vocabulary. 102 00:07:58,179 --> 00:08:02,794 They have to identify at least 35 new words and phrases every week, 103 00:08:02,794 --> 00:08:04,447 from the material they are using. 104 00:08:04,447 --> 00:08:07,488 So, this is a bit of the backdrop. 105 00:08:08,714 --> 00:08:14,115 In 2011, I came across a book, kind of independently. 106 00:08:14,115 --> 00:08:17,200 It was just recommended to me, for some reason, by Amazon: 107 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:18,730 you know how that works. 108 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:22,147 And the book was called 'Curation Nation' 109 00:08:22,147 --> 00:08:27,468 and there is, I think, a slide there perhaps somewhere, it's like the sixth slide. 110 00:08:29,268 --> 00:08:32,835 There's a -- if you want to pop that up. 111 00:08:32,835 --> 00:08:34,596 If not, it's just a picture of the book. 112 00:08:34,596 --> 00:08:36,537 But it's a book it's a book by Steven Rosembaum. 113 00:08:36,537 --> 00:08:38,163 >>Stevens: I will. Could I -- 114 00:08:38,163 --> 00:08:42,805 I am supposed to be able to mute mikes, as the owner of the chat, 115 00:08:42,805 --> 00:08:45,385 but I am unable to mute Halima's for some reason 116 00:08:45,385 --> 00:08:47,854 and that is where the echo is coming from. 117 00:08:47,854 --> 00:08:53,118 So, Halima, could I ask if you could click on the "mute" on your mike when not speaking? 118 00:08:53,118 --> 00:08:56,133 And if you want to unmute, you can always speak to us. 119 00:08:56,133 --> 00:08:58,294 That is where our echo is coming from. 120 00:08:58,709 --> 00:09:03,525 And okay, I will do what Phil has asked me to do and pull up 'Curation Nation'. 121 00:09:04,801 --> 00:09:06,185 >> Hubbard: laughs Alright, thanks. 122 00:09:06,741 --> 00:09:10,701 Anyway, this is not a book about education by any stretch, 123 00:09:10,701 --> 00:09:17,721 but it did come up with this notion that we have so much material on-line now 124 00:09:17,721 --> 00:09:21,692 and we are having so much difficulty in sorting out 125 00:09:21,692 --> 00:09:26,891 what the good stuff is from the chaff, for any reason, for news and so on. 126 00:09:26,891 --> 00:09:29,052 Now we have all these feeds: 127 00:09:29,990 --> 00:09:37,173 You know, if you -- those of you on Twitter or any of the other networks that have lots of feeds, 128 00:09:37,173 --> 00:09:41,142 you get the -- even Google+ -- you get feeds from your friends, 129 00:09:41,142 --> 00:09:47,974 you get feeds from people that whoever runs the site thinks might be interesting to you 130 00:09:47,974 --> 00:09:51,139 and you are just overwhelmed with an enormous amount of material. 131 00:09:51,139 --> 00:09:53,054 Some of it's pretty cool. 132 00:09:53,715 --> 00:09:59,156 Much of it is stuff you wouldn't find on your own and that's great. 133 00:09:59,586 --> 00:10:03,788 But when you've got the specific target of trying to improve your language 134 00:10:03,788 --> 00:10:09,074 -- and of course, the group that I work with doesn't actually do a whole lot with social media 135 00:10:09,074 --> 00:10:13,669 because they don't have time as full-time graduate students -- 136 00:10:13,669 --> 00:10:17,406 I am lucky if I can squeeze a few hours out of them to do the work 137 00:10:17,406 --> 00:10:20,241 that they need for the course that they are taking for credit from me. 138 00:10:20,241 --> 00:10:28,026 So, this notion of curation is based roughly 139 00:10:28,026 --> 00:10:35,591 on the idea of what people do in museums and in art galleries. 140 00:10:36,683 --> 00:10:42,346 You get an expert, somebody who actually knows a fair amount about a particular area 141 00:10:42,346 --> 00:10:50,067 and you have that expert create collections, add value to them in one way or another, 142 00:10:50,759 --> 00:10:56,363 and then you release those collections for the consumer - whoever it might be -- 143 00:10:56,363 --> 00:10:59,565 to have a look at and to interact with. 144 00:11:00,964 --> 00:11:06,434 So, the key difference between this and what a lot of people are doing with this material 145 00:11:06,434 --> 00:11:11,308 -- you may have heard concepts like "digital curation", 146 00:11:11,308 --> 00:11:14,558 which can just mean curating digital materials 147 00:11:14,558 --> 00:11:18,503 but often means that computers are doing the job for you. 148 00:11:19,994 --> 00:11:22,444 Google news is a really good example of that: 149 00:11:22,444 --> 00:11:28,187 I find a lot of interesting stuff in there, I can even ask it to find particular categories, 150 00:11:28,863 --> 00:11:32,475 but it's still being selected without any human intervention. 151 00:11:33,198 --> 00:11:35,557 You compare that with something like Huffington Post, 152 00:11:35,557 --> 00:11:40,208 which is material that's been brought in by people who are 153 00:11:40,700 --> 00:11:45,423 -- in some cases, they're producing it, but in other cases they are aggregating it 154 00:11:45,423 --> 00:11:48,129 and trying to make sense out of it for the rest of us. 155 00:11:49,313 --> 00:11:57,321 So, a key point here is that curation isn't the same as aggregation, or listing, or tagging. 156 00:11:57,321 --> 00:12:01,378 It's okay to use that term for that but that's not the way I am using it. 157 00:12:02,378 --> 00:12:09,164 There is a really nice quote in my slide there that -- I think it's maybe -- 158 00:12:09,164 --> 00:12:17,368 two more slides down, Vance. One more. There you go. Past curation.. yeah, that one. 159 00:12:17,368 --> 00:12:23,741 So this is - it's maybe a little mean, but I think it's right on point 160 00:12:23,741 --> 00:12:28,623 that when you just get collections of things, you've just got collections of things 161 00:12:28,623 --> 00:12:34,513 and its not necessarily anything other than "these are things that I liked" 162 00:12:34,513 --> 00:12:36,666 or "these are things that I think you will like". 163 00:12:37,342 --> 00:12:42,645 So, I prefer the next slide: you want to go to it, Vance? 164 00:12:44,566 --> 00:12:46,877 This is more the way I see curation, 165 00:12:46,908 --> 00:12:50,737 where you collect material, you organize it, 166 00:12:50,737 --> 00:12:53,748 there is even the potentially a path, well, there is certainly a path 167 00:12:53,748 --> 00:12:56,101 through the individual material groups, 168 00:12:56,101 --> 00:12:57,985 and then mayble even a path through the groups, 169 00:12:57,985 --> 00:13:00,631 although at the moment I haven't done that last point. 170 00:13:01,061 --> 00:13:05,415 So, this is, you know, kind of captures the idea that I want to talk about today. 171 00:13:07,291 --> 00:13:13,432 Curation, importantly, is not the same as creation or recreation 172 00:13:13,432 --> 00:13:18,596 or adaptation or sampling, or synthesizing. 173 00:13:19,257 --> 00:13:24,761 It's taking the material and adding something to it, maybe just a commentary, 174 00:13:24,761 --> 00:13:31,052 maybe just collecting it into some logical framework or logical sequence. 175 00:13:32,175 --> 00:13:40,250 So, when I took that idea, which I was getting through the Curation Nation book, 176 00:13:40,250 --> 00:13:44,483 and thought about it with respect to the material that I was using, 177 00:13:45,159 --> 00:13:49,541 I decided to experiment with that and come up 178 00:13:49,541 --> 00:13:57,217 with some collections of materials from -- as you probably know from the title here and also the PDF, 179 00:13:57,217 --> 00:13:59,723 if you've had a look at it -- comes from TED Talks. 180 00:14:00,476 --> 00:14:04,232 And in a moment I will talk about why I think TED talks is so good for that 181 00:14:04,232 --> 00:14:07,827 but at the base level, these were very popular with my students. 182 00:14:08,242 --> 00:14:10,465 What the students were doing more-- 183 00:14:10,465 --> 00:14:14,168 they were having trouble coming up with good ones. 184 00:14:14,168 --> 00:14:16,931 They would always pick what was interesting 185 00:14:16,931 --> 00:14:19,268 and then often come back to me and say 186 00:14:19,268 --> 00:14:24,707 "Well, this was interesting, but I had trouble understanding it because my -- 187 00:14:24,707 --> 00:14:29,656 the accent of the speaker was not easy for me to understand." 188 00:14:29,656 --> 00:14:33,436 or "I had trouble understanding it because -- it was interesting 189 00:14:33,436 --> 00:14:36,837 because I didn't know anything about it and I didn't have the background 190 00:14:36,837 --> 00:14:39,431 so there was a whole bunch of new vocabulary." 191 00:14:40,176 --> 00:14:42,461 So t could be interesting for all sorts of reasons, 192 00:14:43,061 --> 00:14:45,206 but it wasn't interesting for the right reasons, 193 00:14:45,206 --> 00:14:48,763 for what we think is good for independent language learning. 194 00:14:48,763 --> 00:14:54,022 Again, this doesn't mean that all of those collections, with the help of a teacher, 195 00:14:54,022 --> 00:14:57,007 couldn't have been very valuable in a classroom 196 00:14:57,007 --> 00:15:01,677 and especially getting to the content for connecting to discussions. 197 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:05,423 But that's not the same thing as letting students work on their own. 198 00:15:05,423 --> 00:15:07,880 So, I do want to emphasis that. 199 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:10,543 My perspective here, at least initially, 200 00:15:10,543 --> 00:15:14,879 is getting students to be able to do these things outside of class 201 00:15:14,879 --> 00:15:16,921 and then just come back and report on them 202 00:15:16,921 --> 00:15:21,143 rather than having something we do in class 203 00:15:21,143 --> 00:15:24,026 or that everybody does the same homework assignment on. 204 00:15:25,887 --> 00:15:33,516 Alright, so that's the set-up for what I believe curation should be, 205 00:15:33,516 --> 00:15:35,935 or at least can be, within this framework. 206 00:15:35,935 --> 00:15:40,968 So, I think what I'll do here is pause for a second and see if anybody has questions. 207 00:15:40,968 --> 00:15:46,983 and bring it up by trying to look at some of the chat pieces here 208 00:15:48,106 --> 00:15:51,352 Uh -- [he hums] 209 00:15:51,994 --> 00:15:53,539 [reading:] "What is meant by sign..." 210 00:15:53,539 --> 00:15:56,667 OK, so some of these chats are to each other about the chats. 211 00:15:56,823 --> 00:15:58,219 So I got to go to the other window 212 00:15:59,488 --> 00:16:06,801 Uh -- anybody -- anybody have any questions here? 213 00:16:06,801 --> 00:16:08,187 If not, I'll continue on. 214 00:16:09,446 --> 00:16:12,809 >> Stevens: I have to admit I have trouble following all the chats. 215 00:16:12,809 --> 00:16:17,614 There's also a back channel here, with Google: some people could be in that one. 216 00:16:17,614 --> 00:16:20,877 I never see that one until I get off of -- 217 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:26,476 >> Hubbard: Well, the last chat -- the last piece on the group chat said: 218 00:16:26,686 --> 00:16:28,646 "Yeah, we agree with you, Phil." 219 00:16:28,621 --> 00:16:29,849 So: that's great. 220 00:16:29,849 --> 00:16:33,861 I'll stop [check] there and if everybody agrees with me, I don't really need to -- 221 00:16:34,495 --> 00:16:37,118 >> Stevens: you need go no further >> Hubbard: [overlapping, inaudible] 222 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:38,715 No [Hubbard and Stevens laugh] 223 00:16:38,976 --> 00:16:41,808 >> Hubbard: OK, well, so, again, that's kind of the background, 224 00:16:43,113 --> 00:16:46,913 this idea that I needed to start collecting things. 225 00:16:46,913 --> 00:16:50,611 So, I'm still kind of almost two years in the past, now, 226 00:16:51,241 --> 00:16:54,997 telling you the story of how I got to where I got here. 227 00:16:55,064 --> 00:16:59,014 So I picked TED talks and I started going into TED talks. 228 00:17:00,594 --> 00:17:03,696 I wasn't quite sure how I wanted to collect them 229 00:17:03,696 --> 00:17:06,494 but I knew there were some of the ones that I liked 230 00:17:06,494 --> 00:17:11,218 and I also knew some characteristics that I thought were useful for the students. 231 00:17:12,709 --> 00:17:15,601 I thought it was important to collect them into themes. 232 00:17:16,270 --> 00:17:21,069 You know, we've known for a long time that if you have related content, 233 00:17:21,069 --> 00:17:25,790 that it kind of feeds -- the materials feed one another 234 00:17:25,790 --> 00:17:29,920 and the students get probably a better and a richer experience, 235 00:17:29,956 --> 00:17:32,986 they get more natural repetition and key vocabulary 236 00:17:32,996 --> 00:17:36,425 than if you have people just kind of jumping out piecemeal 237 00:17:36,855 --> 00:17:40,002 with unconnected bits of material. 238 00:17:40,944 --> 00:17:48,436 I -- in the 1980's I was forced to teach a course with a book I don't remember the name of that. 239 00:17:48,436 --> 00:17:48,686 I do remember the author, but I'm not going to mention it on air. 240 00:17:51,517 --> 00:17:59,717 It was a reading textbook and the reading textbook had really interesting little chapters, 241 00:17:59,717 --> 00:18:02,103 at least most of them were interesting to me, 242 00:18:02,634 --> 00:18:05,397 but, you know, one chapter would be on the Olympics 243 00:18:05,397 --> 00:18:07,681 and the next chapter would be on sea-horses. 244 00:18:08,707 --> 00:18:14,054 And it's that kind of jumping around -- we typically don't do that with textbooks anymore. 245 00:18:14,189 --> 00:18:18,099 And yet when we turn students loose, a lot of times, that's what they decide to do. 246 00:18:19,584 --> 00:18:22,829 So again, even though I had been giving them guidance, saying: 247 00:18:22,839 --> 00:18:28,462 "Well, collect several bits of, you know, pieces of material, videos or podcasts 248 00:18:28,462 --> 00:18:31,050 that are related to one another in some way," 249 00:18:31,806 --> 00:18:35,553 they wouldn't follow that advice, because it hadn't been done for them. 250 00:18:35,553 --> 00:18:42,310 They were still kind of chasing around, looking for the spots that just seemed interesting. 251 00:18:44,428 --> 00:18:49,208 OK. I think what I'll do is tell you what the 252 00:18:50,112 --> 00:18:53,592 -- at a kind of the abstract level, what I came up with 253 00:18:53,592 --> 00:18:56,469 about what the curator's role should be. 254 00:18:57,255 --> 00:19:02,039 And again, this is specifically for this target audience, 255 00:19:02,039 --> 00:19:05,950 but I think it can be tweaked and extended to other ones. 256 00:19:06,548 --> 00:19:10,976 The first thing you have to do is collect the stuff: you want digital materials, 257 00:19:11,206 --> 00:19:14,342 you want to organize them in some way: 258 00:19:15,278 --> 00:19:18,059 mine are organized systematically, but you could do 259 00:19:18,250 --> 00:19:21,119 -- you know, you could take news stories and do them chronologically. 260 00:19:22,972 --> 00:19:28,712 You need to sequence them and this is where a lot of collections fall short. 261 00:19:28,732 --> 00:19:32,150 They're just -- they're either randomly sequenced 262 00:19:32,470 --> 00:19:34,180 or they're not sequenced at all. 263 00:19:34,751 --> 00:19:40,448 And I think it is possible, as, you know, as the resident [check] expert, the teacher, 264 00:19:40,921 --> 00:19:41,923 to be able to say: 265 00:19:41,923 --> 00:19:48,039 "Here's a way to move so that the earlier ones might be a little bit easier to follow 266 00:19:48,549 --> 00:19:53,496 and the later ones are better understood if you've done the earlier ones." 267 00:19:54,765 --> 00:19:56,653 The fourth point there that 268 00:19:56,653 --> 00:19:58,350 -- on the slide that Vance has -- 269 00:19:58,350 --> 00:20:01,791 is the hardest part of all of this, 270 00:20:02,563 --> 00:20:07,479 and that is trying to get this material levelled in some way. 271 00:20:08,465 --> 00:20:12,049 Wilfried Decoo in 2010 wrote a book, it's at the end 272 00:20:12,049 --> 00:20:15,115 -- the reference is at the end of the slideshow here -- 273 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:17,528 on systemization. 274 00:20:17,540 --> 00:20:20,248 And it was kind of a return to the idea that 275 00:20:20,618 --> 00:20:24,057 even if you're using authentic material, 276 00:20:24,057 --> 00:20:27,410 and especially if you're trying to create course material yourself, 277 00:20:27,940 --> 00:20:35,059 that you need to have a kind of natural development of that material 278 00:20:35,059 --> 00:20:38,564 from, you know, easier at lower levels, to harder 279 00:20:38,949 --> 00:20:43,671 and he went to the point of even talking about keeping databases 280 00:20:43,681 --> 00:20:45,156 that were very finely tuned, 281 00:20:45,156 --> 00:20:50,289 so you would be able to pull out lexical items and grammatical points and so on 282 00:20:50,289 --> 00:20:54,224 in a scope and sequence that fit 283 00:20:54,224 --> 00:20:56,640 what we thought we knew about language learning. 284 00:20:57,776 --> 00:21:01,588 And you know his -- I think his perspective is 285 00:21:01,588 --> 00:21:05,546 what I think is a reasonable one to bring up again, 286 00:21:05,592 --> 00:21:11,317 because I think we are often not cognizant of the difference between 287 00:21:11,317 --> 00:21:16,572 accessible and barely accessible and inaccessible materials, 288 00:21:16,572 --> 00:21:19,549 especially now that students can go in and, you know, 289 00:21:19,549 --> 00:21:27,174 get their first-language subtitles and transcripts for a lot of these materials 290 00:21:27,174 --> 00:21:32,854 and then have the illusion that they are actually understanding the English, in this case, 291 00:21:34,115 --> 00:21:38,173 and that they're building their English proficiency, where they -- 292 00:21:38,173 --> 00:21:44,132 -- they may be to some extent, but probably not to the extent that they think they are. 293 00:21:44,148 --> 00:21:49,700 So there is the, you know, that idea of -- 294 00:21:51,270 --> 00:21:54,711 well, in Decoo's book of fine tuning material. 295 00:21:54,711 --> 00:21:58,265 That doesn't work for me because at the levels I have, 296 00:21:58,265 --> 00:22:01,301 first of all, I have mixed-level classes to some degree, 297 00:22:01,301 --> 00:22:03,437 although they are all fairly advanced. 298 00:22:03,437 --> 00:22:07,878 They come from different backgrounds, I don't know what they know going in. 299 00:22:08,570 --> 00:22:13,225 So it's a little tricky to do it in the way that he likes. 300 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:19,266 But it still gave me the impetus to try and see if I could come up with something, 301 00:22:19,266 --> 00:22:21,970 you know, I'll show you that in a bit. 302 00:22:22,555 --> 00:22:27,901 So, the last part of that, then, once you can give at least some kind of level information, 303 00:22:27,901 --> 00:22:34,435 is to go ahead and then present your pedagogical support, 304 00:22:34,435 --> 00:22:36,066 whatever it might be. 305 00:22:36,850 --> 00:22:44,765 This is fairly open-ended, I mean teachers can get -- and often do get -- into material 306 00:22:44,765 --> 00:22:48,065 and they start stripping out what they think are key vocabulary, 307 00:22:48,065 --> 00:22:52,777 they produce, you know, pre-listening activities, 308 00:22:52,777 --> 00:22:56,745 they have post-listening activities, 309 00:22:56,745 --> 00:22:58,151 they have discussion activities. 310 00:22:58,151 --> 00:23:02,223 All these are great, but they're based kind of on a classroom model 311 00:23:02,223 --> 00:23:06,587 and even more important: they take a lot of time away 312 00:23:06,587 --> 00:23:11,287 from the job of collecting this material. 313 00:23:11,287 --> 00:23:15,325 So if you put the hours into making full lessons, 314 00:23:15,535 --> 00:23:20,659 you end up not having the time to even produce as much as I have, 315 00:23:20,679 --> 00:23:23,019 which, as I mentioned, is not as much as I'd like. 316 00:23:23,984 --> 00:23:30,364 OK, so that's the curator's role and then -- Vance, if you could go to the next slide. 317 00:23:32,632 --> 00:23:33,708 Did we lose you? 318 00:23:33,990 --> 00:23:36,493 >> Museum curator MC [check]: Hi Phil, I just wanted to add to something you-- 319 00:23:36,493 --> 00:23:37,298 >> Hubbard: Yes, go ahead 320 00:23:37,468 --> 00:23:38,835 >> MC: Just because of my background: 321 00:23:38,835 --> 00:23:42,315 I used to work in museums >> Hubbard: Oh, fantastic 322 00:23:42,344 --> 00:23:44,974 >> MC: in education and curation >> Hubbard: A real curator! 323 00:23:44,992 --> 00:23:49,311 >> MC: Yeah. Just one other item I would add to the list 324 00:23:49,311 --> 00:23:53,027 and I made a note of it in the chat section 325 00:23:53,027 --> 00:23:57,493 and that's the -- often without knowing it we're making assumptions about our audience. 326 00:23:58,108 --> 00:24:01,898 >> Hubbard: Ah! >> MC: When we're selecting things, 327 00:24:02,271 --> 00:24:08,871 whether they be objects for display or -- like in the museums -- or 328 00:24:08,871 --> 00:24:12,502 objects for presentations to students, we're often unknowingly making assumptions 329 00:24:14,807 --> 00:24:19,404 and I think it's a really important thing to know, to challenge ourselves 330 00:24:19,404 --> 00:24:24,169 about the assumptions we're making in making those selections, those choices, as experts. 331 00:24:25,059 --> 00:24:27,409 >> Hubbard: Yeah, I mean that's a very good point 332 00:24:27,422 --> 00:24:34,204 and I have to -- as individuals, the students always change in my classes. 333 00:24:34,706 --> 00:24:38,776 As a group, you know, I get to know the group better. 334 00:24:38,776 --> 00:24:41,911 So I think, in this very targeted group, I can -- 335 00:24:42,215 --> 00:24:47,501 I can come up with at least, initially, some likely ones, 336 00:24:47,721 --> 00:24:51,349 but I do in fact ask them for feedback on -- 337 00:24:52,248 --> 00:24:56,428 Well, first of all, I give them choices and then I ask them for feedback 338 00:24:56,450 --> 00:25:01,795 both on, you know, what they chose and why, of the ones I selected for them, 339 00:25:01,795 --> 00:25:05,816 and also what else they might like to see. 340 00:25:06,712 --> 00:25:09,048 So it becomes a little bit od a dialog, 341 00:25:09,063 --> 00:25:13,252 and that could be even more of a dialog, you know, if you have -- 342 00:25:13,559 --> 00:25:17,375 the way my class is structured, again, because it's so small, 343 00:25:17,388 --> 00:25:23,568 we do a lot both within class discussion and with the individual tutorials. 344 00:25:23,568 --> 00:25:28,335 But if you got a larger class and you got a discussion board or a wiki or something like that 345 00:25:28,335 --> 00:25:32,402 where, you know, students can -- can chime in more regularly, 346 00:25:32,402 --> 00:25:35,071 then you could get some information. 347 00:25:35,071 --> 00:25:42,596 I also haven't formally surveyed them, so that would be useful too. I -- 348 00:25:42,596 --> 00:25:46,832 >> MC: You're inviting their feedback to inform -- >> Hubbard: Very much so. Yeah. 349 00:25:46,832 --> 00:25:49,637 >> MC: Yeah -- >> Hubbard: But not as richly as I could. 350 00:25:49,637 --> 00:25:54,600 So one idea I had was that, you know, like you've seen probably in museums, 351 00:25:56,450 --> 00:26:02,146 sometimes they have the displays but they'll also have, you know, 352 00:26:02,155 --> 00:26:04,710 places where people can, you know, write cards 353 00:26:04,710 --> 00:26:08,744 and make suggestions and say things and drop those off 354 00:26:08,744 --> 00:26:15,303 and I think, probably increasingly, we'll see museum displays 355 00:26:15,303 --> 00:26:24,598 where the, you know, the viewers' thoughts are right up there and accessible to other viewers 356 00:26:24,598 --> 00:26:26,875 when they go to look at the material. 357 00:26:27,765 --> 00:26:36,956 So I think you're making a really good point and, you know, this is the -- 358 00:26:37,755 --> 00:26:42,788 figuring out exactly the role of the students who are still kind of developing, 359 00:26:42,788 --> 00:26:48,598 you want to meet them half way but you also, in the curation model, I think, 360 00:26:48,598 --> 00:26:52,490 want to be careful about the difference between curation and crowdsourcing, 361 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:56,068 because I've had students come up with some materials 362 00:26:56,068 --> 00:26:57,755 that they thought were really exciting, 363 00:26:58,109 --> 00:26:58,359 but when I looked at it, I could see what the problems were in terms of the -- 364 00:27:04,248 --> 00:27:07,042 the use of it by other students. 365 00:27:08,155 --> 00:27:10,749 >> MC: Now I take your point: it's you acting as the filter. 366 00:27:10,959 --> 00:27:12,484 >> MC: and finding -- >> Hubbard: Yeah, and that's -- 367 00:27:12,511 --> 00:27:16,946 and again that's -- and again that's the -- this is the kind of, to me, this the curation model. 368 00:27:17,354 --> 00:27:19,426 >> MC: Yeah >> Hubbard: The crowdsourcing model 369 00:27:19,426 --> 00:27:21,852 is a great model too, it's just a different model 370 00:27:21,852 --> 00:27:24,981 and it may work better in some cases. 371 00:27:24,981 --> 00:27:28,426 Of course it also depends on, you know, 372 00:27:28,426 --> 00:27:32,788 I've been to museums that I didn't think were very well run, were very well organized 373 00:27:32,791 --> 00:27:34,046 or were confusing. 374 00:27:34,046 --> 00:27:34,851 So -- >> MC: Yeah. 375 00:27:34,851 --> 00:27:37,056 >> Hubbard: as soon as you have the human expert coming in, 376 00:27:37,405 --> 00:27:40,693 they may not be as much of an expert as they think they are. 377 00:27:41,178 --> 00:27:44,180 That's probably true of me, in fact. >> MC: Yeah, and there are lots of people [check] 378 00:27:44,180 --> 00:27:47,537 a lot of examples of museums, because I'm into curating things 379 00:27:48,783 --> 00:27:54,622 and then I'm finding out that the interpretations that they were expecting audiences to have 380 00:27:54,622 --> 00:27:56,452 were completely off-base. 381 00:27:56,721 --> 00:27:58,624 >> Hubbard: Yeah. >> MC: I think that's a good example 382 00:27:58,624 --> 00:28:05,901 of big money going into these exhibitions and then being interpreted in a completely unexpected -- 383 00:28:05,901 --> 00:28:09,318 >> Hubbard: Yeah, well, the good news here is, I have no big money. 384 00:28:09,318 --> 00:28:13,184 I mostly have no money at all for this. So -- [he laughs] 385 00:28:13,660 --> 00:28:18,035 It's also, the nice thing is, you know, compared to the museum, 386 00:28:18,035 --> 00:28:23,779 where you have all of these Unkosten [? check] to putting the material in, 387 00:28:24,025 --> 00:28:26,063 once you have something, you start a web page: 388 00:28:26,063 --> 00:28:34,435 if it is a disaster, or if it needs to be tweaked or significantly changed, 389 00:28:34,435 --> 00:28:38,265 it's possible to do that just by finding a little bit of time. 390 00:28:40,726 --> 00:28:44,331 [MC and Hubbard overlap] >> MC It's just [missed words check] 391 00:28:44,331 --> 00:28:48,094 There's even an opportunity, actually, in, as an expert, 392 00:28:48,094 --> 00:28:52,110 putting together a series of well-chosen articles 393 00:28:52,110 --> 00:28:57,165 and then inviting students to assemble them and put them into a -- into an order or sequence, 394 00:28:57,165 --> 00:29:01,309 and to try and explain the rationale that they've used, 395 00:29:01,309 --> 00:29:03,255 what connections they've seen in the works. 396 00:29:03,255 --> 00:29:05,960 It's just another angle to it I sure would -- 397 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,911 >> Hubbard: No, it's a very good angle and in fact, you know, 398 00:29:08,911 --> 00:29:16,363 as I've moved through stages in probably about 15 years of teaching this course, 399 00:29:16,363 --> 00:29:23,279 I've tried to give students more independence but also to give them guidance in that independence 400 00:29:23,279 --> 00:29:28,371 and one of the -- what I hope I'm doing with the material I have, 401 00:29:28,371 --> 00:29:30,667 I do show them how I put it together. 402 00:29:30,667 --> 00:29:34,766 And I hope I'm, you know, kind of modeling curation for them as well. 403 00:29:35,627 --> 00:29:41,664 The idea of getting them to maybe do a little curated piece of their own, 404 00:29:42,771 --> 00:29:45,914 that could be an interesting final project for the course. 405 00:29:45,914 --> 00:29:48,982 I will be revisiting it again in Spring. 406 00:29:49,658 --> 00:29:52,731 I'll be away from it in Winter quarter here 407 00:29:52,731 --> 00:29:54,677 because we have -- we teach 10-week quarters. 408 00:29:55,677 --> 00:29:59,355 But that's a possibility for Spring, actually. 409 00:29:59,355 --> 00:30:04,231 It could also greatly enrich the collection of material that's available to other students. 410 00:30:04,231 --> 00:30:08,111 Again, as long as I'm there to be a kind of a filter, 411 00:30:08,111 --> 00:30:10,566 rather than just releasing these into the wild. 412 00:30:11,504 --> 00:30:14,813 Or if I do release them, you know, making sure that students know the difference 413 00:30:14,813 --> 00:30:18,486 between ones that are student-produced and the once that I produced 414 00:30:18,486 --> 00:30:21,756 and why, you know, I did mine one way. 415 00:30:21,756 --> 00:30:26,381 Then they can -- they can judge to some extent, you know, 416 00:30:26,381 --> 00:30:32,144 whether they think the rationale used by their peers, you know, was useful for them. 417 00:30:32,144 --> 00:30:35,683 So, that's a nice idea, I'm making a note of that. 418 00:30:40,174 --> 00:30:42,468 OK, shall I move on? 419 00:30:42,468 --> 00:30:48,754 >> [Stevens? check] Yeah. I'm aware of a podcast - there's the slide on I'm talking -- 420 00:30:48,754 --> 00:30:50,669 >> Hubbard: Yeah, thanks [they laugh] 421 00:30:50,669 --> 00:30:56,384 >> Stevens (?): I listened to a podcast where some educators had gone to Europe, 422 00:30:56,384 --> 00:30:59,005 probably on a junket but ostensibly [Hubbard laughs] 423 00:30:59,005 --> 00:31:01,594 >> Stevens: to visit museums and find out, you know, 424 00:31:01,594 --> 00:31:05,349 especially ones that had audience attract-- 425 00:31:05,349 --> 00:31:09,204 you know, the idea was that museums, people didn't have to go there, 426 00:31:09,204 --> 00:31:10,380 they have to attract people. 427 00:31:10,380 --> 00:31:13,986 So what do they do to attract the people, as opposed to schools? 428 00:31:13,986 --> 00:31:17,841 And then, how can we design our classroom environment 429 00:31:17,841 --> 00:31:19,294 so it's more like a museum? 430 00:31:19,294 --> 00:31:23,631 So that was actually a serious project and I'll never remember -- 431 00:31:23,631 --> 00:31:30,044 I'll never forget how to get it back, but maybe I will tell you in Portmont [check]. 432 00:31:30,044 --> 00:31:32,599 >> Hubbard: Ah OK? So that was good. 433 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:38,012 Yeah, so Vance has put up the slide that I wanted to make a point of here, 434 00:31:38,012 --> 00:31:41,871 because there are a couple of things that are important about this slide, I think. 435 00:31:42,563 --> 00:31:45,804 The first is, even though these are just little bullet points, 436 00:31:45,804 --> 00:31:51,668 that actually took me a while to kind of figure this out, maybe because I'm slow, but -- 437 00:31:52,298 --> 00:31:54,842 Oop, Vance, I lost the slide. >> Stevens: it is here again? >> Hubbard: thanks. 438 00:31:58,025 --> 00:32:01,920 Because of all the other distractions I have 439 00:32:03,381 --> 00:32:10,931 and because of other elements of where I am and what the -- sort of the visibility, 440 00:32:11,300 --> 00:32:18,985 the first thing I have to make sure is that anything that I curate is actually legally available. 441 00:32:20,969 --> 00:32:26,269 And a certain amount of stuff that I had used years before, even in my own class, 442 00:32:27,238 --> 00:32:32,877 I wasn't quite so sure about what the legality was, I think, in the early days of the internet. 443 00:32:33,861 --> 00:32:38,880 Even now with YouTube I try to be careful about making sure that 444 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:43,133 what I've found is something that whoever put it up either has the right to 445 00:32:43,133 --> 00:32:45,597 or they're reposting something that is -- 446 00:32:45,597 --> 00:32:50,785 that's already got a Creative Commons license or something like that. 447 00:32:51,166 --> 00:32:55,123 So, especially for something I'm going to put some time into here, 448 00:32:55,123 --> 00:32:59,430 I want to make sure that what I've got is something I can use. 449 00:32:59,430 --> 00:33:01,621 I also always want to make it freely available 450 00:33:01,621 --> 00:33:05,464 because my students have friends back in their home countries 451 00:33:05,464 --> 00:33:10,798 and they have even colleagues here who don't end up taking my class 452 00:33:11,644 --> 00:33:17,455 and I have colleagues that are interested in using some of the material I do, 453 00:33:17,455 --> 00:33:23,949 so everything I do in this kind of a project, I try to make sure it's freely available on the Web. 454 00:33:24,769 --> 00:33:29,036 Vance, we lost the slide again, or at least I did. [incomprehensible metallic voice - check] 455 00:33:29,036 --> 00:33:32,712 >> Hubbard: Oh wait, is this Halima saying something? Uh, you know-- 456 00:33:32,712 --> 00:33:37,752 >> Stevens: No, Halima is unmuting herself as soon as she comes into the chat. 457 00:33:37,752 --> 00:33:41,633 So I'm going to have to -- Halima, can you mute your microphone? 458 00:33:42,571 --> 00:33:44,194 Because it's causing feedback. 459 00:33:45,009 --> 00:33:50,652 And I hope you can figure that out, and meanwhile we put this back. 460 00:33:50,667 --> 00:33:54,120 Is it back yet [missed words check] Phil? >> Hubbard: Yeah, that's great. >> Vance: OK 461 00:33:55,012 --> 00:33:59,666 >> Hubbard: Yeah, so the "freely and legally available" is an important quality 462 00:33:59,666 --> 00:34:03,582 and you know, TED talks obviously are ideal for that. 463 00:34:04,458 --> 00:34:06,373 They're likely to be interesting. 464 00:34:06,373 --> 00:34:09,829 Again that's something -- oops, lost the slide again, 465 00:34:10,705 --> 00:34:12,604 but I'll just go ahead and walk through these. 466 00:34:13,050 --> 00:34:19,808 "Likely to be interesting", I guess that connects to a previous commentary [laughs] 467 00:34:19,808 --> 00:34:22,506 that we don't always know what students think are interesting, 468 00:34:23,429 --> 00:34:25,675 but I try to pick things that I think are, 469 00:34:25,675 --> 00:34:29,839 you know, have a good chance of being interesting for the students. 470 00:34:31,639 --> 00:34:37,032 The good technical quality: there is a lot of stuff, obviously, 471 00:34:37,032 --> 00:34:44,375 available on the Web that's not, that's interesting and freely and legally available, 472 00:34:45,328 --> 00:34:51,656 but the technical quality is such that it may be less ideal for language learning. 473 00:34:53,254 --> 00:34:57,517 We're getting better at that now, certainly, than in the old days, 474 00:34:57,517 --> 00:35:04,043 but when - when you're looking for material, if it's been overly compressed, 475 00:35:04,043 --> 00:35:07,392 or it was done with devices that weren't that good in the first place, 476 00:35:08,607 --> 00:35:13,418 it doesn't necessarily lend itself as well for language learning. 477 00:35:13,956 --> 00:35:18,189 Stability is a really important point, because I don't want to do this 478 00:35:18,804 --> 00:35:24,400 and then find out what I did is not available the next time I teach the class, 479 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:26,253 or even the next week. 480 00:35:26,729 --> 00:35:32,188 So again, finding material that has -- either has been up for a while 481 00:35:32,188 --> 00:35:35,562 or that you know is going to continue to be up for a while. 482 00:35:36,522 --> 00:35:41,262 The 5th one is a -- you know, people have different views of this, 483 00:35:41,262 --> 00:35:47,670 but because I'm so tied in with vocabulary development along with comprehension, 484 00:35:48,546 --> 00:35:55,584 to me it's critical to have captions at least -- [coughs] excuse me, losing my voice here -- 485 00:35:58,333 --> 00:36:03,074 to have captions at least and ideally, to have transcripts. 486 00:36:03,074 --> 00:36:08,933 And one of the reasons for transcripts is to be able to try to use some material 487 00:36:09,609 --> 00:36:12,837 which I'll show you in a moment here some of you are probably familiar with: 488 00:36:12,837 --> 00:36:16,182 the vocabulary profile from lextutor. 489 00:36:16,766 --> 00:36:22,106 By using -- by dumping the transcript into that, you can get an idea of levelling. 490 00:36:23,749 --> 00:36:25,525 And if you don't have a transcript, 491 00:36:25,525 --> 00:36:29,821 then you have to kind of use just intuitive feels for what's the level. 492 00:36:29,821 --> 00:36:34,194 Then I've personally seen some pretty significant problems with that. 493 00:36:35,058 --> 00:36:37,755 I may mention one towards the end here 494 00:36:37,755 --> 00:36:42,397 when I get to some of the alternative sites I know that already exist for this. 495 00:36:43,182 --> 00:36:45,411 And then ideally, if you can find complem -- 496 00:36:45,411 --> 00:36:47,341 something that has complementary materials. 497 00:36:47,694 --> 00:36:51,930 Again, in the case of TED talks, you've got materials that are -- 498 00:36:52,837 --> 00:36:59,487 you have a brief summary of whatever the talk is, right there available, 499 00:36:59,487 --> 00:37:02,246 you don't have to create it as the curator, 500 00:37:02,246 --> 00:37:06,463 you've got the bio of the speaker, which is good background information, 501 00:37:06,939 --> 00:37:11,979 and in some cases you even have -- I think, what do they call it, TED Ed or something -- 502 00:37:11,979 --> 00:37:17,160 there are some TED talks that even have some additional material that -- 503 00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:22,277 that people have added to them, in the way of discussion questions and things like that. 504 00:37:23,015 --> 00:37:28,138 TED's not as rich as, say, you know, if you're doing a newscast for example, 505 00:37:28,138 --> 00:37:34,395 and you might have several written forms of the same news story 506 00:37:34,395 --> 00:37:35,910 that you can use for back up: 507 00:37:35,910 --> 00:37:37,363 it's not quite as rich as that, 508 00:37:37,363 --> 00:37:44,202 but it's still pretty good with giving you some of these complementary materials, besides the video itself. 509 00:37:46,786 --> 00:37:50,293 OK. You want to move on to the next -- 510 00:37:51,984 --> 00:37:54,729 >> Hubbard: Actually, it's probably the next couple of slides >> Stevens: Yeah. 511 00:37:54,729 --> 00:37:56,136 >> Hubbard: does someone have a question? 512 00:37:56,689 --> 00:38:04,026 >> Stevens [check]: Yes, Peggy George has asked questions in the text chat, the Etherpad one. 513 00:38:04,795 --> 00:38:06,710 Let's see, I can -- she asks: 514 00:38:06,710 --> 00:38:10,976 "Are your students able to share your curated content with others outside the course?" 515 00:38:10,976 --> 00:38:15,266 >> Hubbard: Yes. Yes, som you'll see the -- 516 00:38:15,266 --> 00:38:20,397 in fact I think it comes up here on the next slide or couple of slides. 517 00:38:20,397 --> 00:38:25,352 Actually the next slide, if you go to the next slide, let me talk briefly about that, 518 00:38:25,352 --> 00:38:30,531 because it does have to do with the sharing. >> Stevens: Mmm - OK 519 00:38:30,924 --> 00:38:36,351 >> Hubbard: So that the link there is to the advanced listening website 520 00:38:36,351 --> 00:38:39,045 and you'll see, you know, quite a bit of material there, 521 00:38:39,045 --> 00:38:40,506 not just the TED talks. 522 00:38:41,223 --> 00:38:45,365 The link - the specific link to the curated TED talks is a couple of slides from here 523 00:38:45,365 --> 00:38:52,346 but those are -- those themselves are legally and freely available. 524 00:38:52,346 --> 00:38:55,430 They're my websites, they are on the Stanford server: 525 00:38:55,430 --> 00:39:01,159 Stanford is not going away any time soon, as far as I know I'm not going away any time soon. 526 00:39:01,635 --> 00:39:06,380 So those are not only, you know, available on the World Wide Web, 527 00:39:06,380 --> 00:39:11,226 unless you happen to be from a country that is for some reason blocking access to Stanford: 528 00:39:11,702 --> 00:39:14,114 that has happened a few times in the past. 529 00:39:16,201 --> 00:39:19,125 But if not, then you can get to that material 530 00:39:19,125 --> 00:39:23,420 and all it does is jump out to the TED talks themselves 531 00:39:23,420 --> 00:39:26,641 and the TED talks again are, you know, freely available. 532 00:39:27,317 --> 00:39:31,073 I noticed in one of the preliminary discussions 533 00:39:31,073 --> 00:39:38,663 that somebody had put in some comments, before this began, on the learning2gether site, 534 00:39:38,663 --> 00:39:45,799 and mentioned YouTube videos, and YouTube videos are certainly a great resource, 535 00:39:46,460 --> 00:39:52,745 most of my students are from China and most of them, then, unless things have changed, 536 00:39:53,130 --> 00:39:57,879 can't freely and legally get the YouTube videos there. 537 00:39:58,491 --> 00:40:03,737 And so for that reason I try to -- I don't avoid YouTube 538 00:40:03,737 --> 00:40:07,812 but I try to limit it and I like to make the curated collections 539 00:40:07,812 --> 00:40:14,174 something that my students will be able to use and their friends will be able to use. 540 00:40:17,771 --> 00:40:19,946 OK. Any other questions? 541 00:40:21,019 --> 00:40:26,865 Uh, so, yeah, so they are available and when I -- just so you know -- 542 00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:35,245 when I redo the course every quarter, that URL there stays the same, the material is new. 543 00:40:35,829 --> 00:40:38,552 Well, most of it is old actually, but I do update it 544 00:40:38,552 --> 00:40:41,418 sometimes because I come up with other ideas 545 00:40:41,418 --> 00:40:45,627 and sometimes because some of my other class material disappears. 546 00:40:47,119 --> 00:40:52,874 But the home page of that each quarter has the link to the previous quarter's materials, 547 00:40:52,874 --> 00:40:58,528 so you can actually step back from quarter to quarter and go back. 548 00:40:58,528 --> 00:41:04,268 I never throw anything away on the Web, so it's probably got stuff from 5 years ago 549 00:41:04,268 --> 00:41:09,394 if you keep clicking back through the previous quarters' material. 550 00:41:09,978 --> 00:41:16,009 So you can see what it was like in the past ["without"? check] sort of my own Internet Archive. 551 00:41:18,248 --> 00:41:24,538 OK. The way that I did this material, let me move on to the -- 552 00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:27,536 Well, I guess on this slide, 553 00:41:28,243 --> 00:41:35,087 the problems that my students have, typically, fall into issues with speech rate: 554 00:41:35,579 --> 00:41:38,483 some of the TED talks are too fast. 555 00:41:38,483 --> 00:41:43,486 It doesn't mean they can't, you know, use top-down skills to understand the basic content, 556 00:41:43,486 --> 00:41:46,852 but that's not necessarily going to help them drive their -- 557 00:41:46,852 --> 00:41:54,129 either their listening proficiency, you know, their ability to process English, automatize it, 558 00:41:54,129 --> 00:42:00,709 or their ability to pick out the vocabulary that they don't understand or -- 559 00:42:00,709 --> 00:42:05,666 even more interesting is the vocabulary they sort of understand or partially understand, 560 00:42:05,666 --> 00:42:11,833 but they just can't get to it, they can't access it in the time with a faster speaker. 561 00:42:11,833 --> 00:42:16,700 And there are others in my class, actually, that do OK with some of the faster speakers, 562 00:42:16,700 --> 00:42:20,215 but just having knowledge of the speech rate is useful. 563 00:42:21,552 --> 00:42:28,016 Preliminary knowledge of the accent: just a -- since in some cases we have students 564 00:42:28,016 --> 00:42:33,663 that are having particular difficulties with particular accents, often of their professors, 565 00:42:34,647 --> 00:42:39,950 and they may actually be doing a project where they're trying to focus on that accent. 566 00:42:40,690 --> 00:42:45,640 And so in that case, knowing more about the accent is helpful. 567 00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:50,886 And others are really trying to -- I wouldn't say "master", 568 00:42:50,886 --> 00:42:59,161 but at least becoming -- become more proficient with the North American accent 569 00:42:59,161 --> 00:43:04,149 because they plan on not only doing their graduate work here, but staying a few years afterwards. 570 00:43:04,149 --> 00:43:10,060 It's a very common professional track for our students whether at the Master's or the Ph.D. level, to -- 571 00:43:11,981 --> 00:43:15,330 because so many of them are in technology, they want to hang around Silicon Valley 572 00:43:15,330 --> 00:43:18,683 as much as the can after they, after the graduate. 573 00:43:20,223 --> 00:43:23,411 OK. If you could go to the next slide, Vance? 574 00:43:26,865 --> 00:43:30,330 >> Stevens: OK I might [both overlap] 575 00:43:30,330 --> 00:43:35,744 >> Stevens: You mentioned Claude Almansi's contribution to the wiki earlier 576 00:43:35,744 --> 00:43:45,113 and one thing that she said -- she left this on the Google+ page as well: 577 00:43:45,113 --> 00:43:50,068 I post this to several pages. Let me just get rid of that slide for a second. 578 00:43:50,068 --> 00:43:53,922 I see I can do that by clicking off the screen share for a second, OK? 579 00:43:53,922 --> 00:43:58,394 Well, anyway. She does work in closed captioning, 580 00:43:58,394 --> 00:44:01,842 she does a lot of very interesting work relating to MOOCs [check] where she is. 581 00:44:01,842 --> 00:44:08,343 And one of the suggestions she made -- I didn't know this, but maybe you did already, 582 00:44:08,343 --> 00:44:16,991 but you can -- she said you can, if you get the MP4, if you get an MP4 of a YouTube video, 583 00:44:16,991 --> 00:44:20,436 you can then load it into Audacity -- I didn't know that -- 584 00:44:20,436 --> 00:44:29,521 and then you can adjust the rate of speech there, without causing any chipmunk effects. 585 00:44:30,182 --> 00:44:31,928 >> Hubbard: Mmm. >> Stevens: I thought that was kind of neat. 586 00:44:31,928 --> 00:44:34,138 Sounds like useful information? 587 00:44:34,859 --> 00:44:45,063 >> Hubbard: Yeah, that's -- again, there are lots of things you can do to go more deeply into this stuff. 588 00:44:45,601 --> 00:44:52,019 I -- one of the things I do with TED talks is, you can also download TED talks and you can -- 589 00:44:52,711 --> 00:44:58,337 even if you put them into something, well I use the VLC player, 590 00:44:58,337 --> 00:45:03,383 because the speech rate slider is right on the top, 591 00:45:03,383 --> 00:45:08,938 it's much easier to get at than it is in QuickTime or in Windows Media Player. 592 00:45:08,938 --> 00:45:12,050 I like the VLC player for other reasons, in fact. 593 00:45:12,495 --> 00:45:20,027 But, you know, once you have downloaded you can use the VLC player to -- 594 00:45:21,532 --> 00:45:24,048 for the most part you don't really get the chipmunk effect 595 00:45:25,032 --> 00:45:29,930 because it's trying to expand the time domain without changing the frequencies, 596 00:45:29,930 --> 00:45:34,590 it's not like the old days with LP's and cassette tapes 597 00:45:34,590 --> 00:45:38,253 where time and frequency were connected to one another. 598 00:45:38,253 --> 00:45:41,161 Digitally, you can isolate those. 599 00:45:42,037 --> 00:45:47,079 What we found is that if you slow somebody down to about 80%, 600 00:45:47,079 --> 00:45:54,181 you can get a lot more processing time and it still sounds natural as long as you have good material. 601 00:45:55,011 --> 00:45:58,228 If you have material that's already been compressed too much, 602 00:45:58,228 --> 00:46:04,109 then those compression artefacts become stronger if you try to slow it down. 603 00:46:04,515 --> 00:46:08,955 Occasionally, we get people that my students want to speed up 604 00:46:08,955 --> 00:46:13,164 but most of the time, for language learning processes, we're talking about slowing it down. 605 00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:21,178 So it's -- using, changing speech rate, that's a whole different talk, 606 00:46:21,178 --> 00:46:31,456 but it's, I think, a very underused functionality and something that students sometimes baulk from 607 00:46:31,456 --> 00:46:41,000 but we have some research evidence that it's helpful when the students have control over it. 608 00:46:41,753 --> 00:46:44,627 Anyway, I don't want to diverge too much on that, but that's a -- 609 00:46:44,627 --> 00:46:47,232 I do encourage everybody to read that post 610 00:46:47,232 --> 00:46:51,981 and see in more detail what some of the options are for doing that. 611 00:46:53,580 --> 00:47:00,362 In fact, one of the -- one of the problems with using the VLC player with those is, 612 00:47:00,362 --> 00:47:09,049 if you -- if you do try to slow down the speech rate by downloading it and putting it in the VLC player, 613 00:47:09,064 --> 00:47:12,298 you actually move the subtitles, because the subtitle feature -- 614 00:47:13,159 --> 00:47:20,899 the captioning feature in the TED website is built into the website, it's not built into the video. 615 00:47:20,899 --> 00:47:26,627 And so you would need to do some additional captioning if you want to do that. 616 00:47:27,481 --> 00:47:34,506 My -- if your goal is general comprehension and you've got decent material, 617 00:47:35,044 --> 00:47:41,312 then I'm a fan of using the Google beta transcription. 618 00:47:43,695 --> 00:47:46,604 Even with good material, it makes a lot of mistakes 619 00:47:46,604 --> 00:47:50,136 and with material which, you know, isn't really, really clear, 620 00:47:50,136 --> 00:47:53,500 either because the speaker wasn't clear, or because the signal wasn't clear, 621 00:47:53,500 --> 00:47:54,853 it makes a lot more mistakes. 622 00:47:55,307 --> 00:47:59,597 And in my case, when I'm trying to have students use it for vocabulary development, 623 00:48:00,166 --> 00:48:05,289 if it's got -- if it picks the wrong word, then they're going to be learning something pretty weird. 624 00:48:05,289 --> 00:48:07,970 And it does that all the time. 625 00:48:08,624 --> 00:48:15,242 If you change that and, you know, get around to Google Translate, to get first-language captions, 626 00:48:15,242 --> 00:48:18,662 you just accentuate the error rate. 627 00:48:19,431 --> 00:48:22,725 So again, it really depends on what the goal is. 628 00:48:22,725 --> 00:48:29,445 If the goal is letting students watch a video for cultural and general content information, 629 00:48:29,983 --> 00:48:32,884 maybe to trigger classroom discussions, things like that, 630 00:48:32,884 --> 00:48:38,693 then using the automated captions is not a bad idea 631 00:48:38,693 --> 00:48:44,726 and being able to slow down is not necessarily -- is, well, I think a good idea. 632 00:48:46,620 --> 00:48:50,587 So again, it depends on what the goals are, but you have to be careful, 633 00:48:50,587 --> 00:48:54,117 because the Google beta, there is a reason why they keep calling it beta, 634 00:48:54,117 --> 00:48:57,572 it's because it's pretty error-prone. 635 00:48:58,418 --> 00:49:00,464 It's getting better but it's not there yet. 636 00:49:01,362 --> 00:49:04,721 And if students think it's an accurate rendition 637 00:49:04,721 --> 00:49:06,328 that's going to be even more difficult. 638 00:49:06,328 --> 00:49:12,756 If you do use the automated captions then the students need to be prepared for -- 639 00:49:13,463 --> 00:49:16,414 you know, to be able to recognize when something doesn't make sense. 640 00:49:17,090 --> 00:49:19,737 It's usually -- it's a very obvious semantic issue 641 00:49:19,737 --> 00:49:21,506 with the words they pick. 642 00:49:24,072 --> 00:49:28,859 OK. One other thing, I don't remember if it was in that post or another one but 643 00:49:28,859 --> 00:49:36,097 something I hadn't noticed before someone mentioned that there is a slight delay 644 00:49:36,097 --> 00:49:39,881 in the synchronization of the captions in TED 645 00:49:40,296 --> 00:49:43,649 compared to the system that they were suggesting. 646 00:49:44,163 --> 00:49:48,985 So, uh, that's something else to take into account. 647 00:49:48,985 --> 00:49:54,082 You might, If that delay seems to be an issue for you or your students, then -- 648 00:49:56,773 --> 00:50:00,845 it's something that I plan to explore because I hadn't noticed that before. 649 00:50:01,850 --> 00:50:05,785 Okay, a little bit about how I finally figured out to do this, 650 00:50:05,785 --> 00:50:09,164 which is not the way I would recommend doing it now necessarily 651 00:50:09,917 --> 00:50:17,277 But this is how I started working on this. When I did it I guess it was Spring of 2011. 652 00:50:18,184 --> 00:50:27,345 The first thing was to...oh no, it wasn't Spring: Fall of 2011. 653 00:50:27,773 --> 00:50:30,717 The first thing to do is to get the TED database. 654 00:50:30,717 --> 00:50:35,492 It turns out you can get an excel spreadsheet that has all of the Ted talks on it. 655 00:50:35,492 --> 00:50:39,395 If you go to their website you can see that there's a link for that. 656 00:50:40,176 --> 00:50:45,474 And the nice thing about that is that you can skim that a whole lot more easily 657 00:50:45,474 --> 00:50:47,624 than you can skim other material 658 00:50:47,624 --> 00:50:55,086 and you can also look, among other things, it tells you what the length of the talk is. 659 00:50:55,086 --> 00:51:04,124 And most Ted talks are around 18 minutes and most students attention focus ability is less. 660 00:51:06,981 --> 00:51:17,365 Um, okay, the database then, when I did it myself, 661 00:51:17,365 --> 00:51:19,865 it was smaller for one thing, at that point. 662 00:51:19,865 --> 00:51:24,829 But I did sort of skim it and looked for ideas, looked for themes 663 00:51:25,490 --> 00:51:27,343 and searched for keywords. 664 00:51:27,343 --> 00:51:30,100 So creativity was one of the first ones I did, 665 00:51:30,100 --> 00:51:34,022 so I was just able to search for anything that had creativity 666 00:51:34,022 --> 00:51:37,467 either in its description or in its title. 667 00:51:38,467 --> 00:51:43,295 I put together a list of candidates within that. 668 00:51:43,295 --> 00:51:48,094 I was looking for four or five talks to make a kind of a cluster, 669 00:51:48,094 --> 00:51:52,217 a sort of a virtual room in the museum if you will. 670 00:51:53,317 --> 00:52:01,441 And for each of those, I -- well, first of all, I did listen to the accent and got that. (52:01) 671 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I wanted to get at least a proxy for the speech speed 672 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and so -- the speech rate. 673 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So I just took the transcript, dumped it into Word 674 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 so that I got a word count, divided that and came up with words per minute. 675 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I was actually quite surprised at the range that I could see there. 676 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 If you go to the website for cre-- the link for "creativity" 677 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 on my ted1 website of the curated talks there, 678 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 the slowest speech rate is like 91 words a minute. 679 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Some of that is because there are pictures being shown in between 680 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but it still means you got a lot more time to process the language coming in 681 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 than if you got somebody coming in at -- at a higher rate. 682 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Some of my students do a -- 683 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 there's a website at Stanford called "Entrepreneurship corner" 684 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and they have a lot of Silicon Valley types come in 685 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and give talks on campus. 686 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 They also have transcripts and subtitles for that 687 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and one of the talks that I always have the students try 688 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 is Marissa Mayer who, at the time she gave the talk, was a VP for Google 689 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but is now the CEO of Yahoo!. 690 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And she talks between 220 and 237 words a minute on the one I have, 691 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 so I use her as an example of where you might try to use the speech rate shift 692 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and be able to use the slider to slow her down to 80%. 693 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 OK. The next thing, once I have that rough speed -- 694 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and again, it's just a rough speed, but it's better than not using technology 695 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and try just to use intuition about "This is too fast, this is too slow." 696 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 The vocabulary profiler -- this is Tom Cobb's work of genius in my opinion. 697 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 There are a lot of parts to that lextutor.ca site, 698 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but the one that I use for this purpose is the -- 699 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 well, at the time, was the British National Corpus profiler 700 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and there is the link to it there. 701 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Basically, you dump a text, a transcript into it 702 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and it gives you as output all the words divided into 1'000 verbal frequency bands, 703 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 so, you know, which words are in the first thousand words of English, 704 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 the second thousand words of English, and so on, 705 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 all the way up to the 20'000 level. 706 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 For my students, we try to focus more on the, you know, just doing a short -- 707 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 well, we -- I try to get them to focus more around the 5'000 level, 708 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 so anything below that that they don't know, 709 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 it means it's a word that they should learn. 710 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And when you go to my site, you can see how that's split up. 711 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 I skim the transcript for unusual terms and idioms -- 712 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Oh, I meant to mention: in the last few weeks, 713 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Tom has actually added the Coca, it's a contemporary corpus of American English 714 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and blended those in, 715 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 so it now goes up to the 25'000 level. 716 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And it has much more American English in it now, 717 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 rather than just the British. 718 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 So, for those of you who like, you know, concordancing 719 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and corpus studying, study and so on, 720 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 it's got a much richer layering out than it did when I was using it for this purpose. 721 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 OK. So that's the process. 722 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 Now I said, you know, I would do it a little bit differently, probably. 723 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 It turns out that, since the time I began this and now, 724 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 TED has come up with its own curated collections. 725 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 And so, if you go to the TED website, 726 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 you will see a link to something called "playlists" 727 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and these are collections of material that people have put together. 728 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 In some cases, it's done by TED itself, 729 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 you know, whoever is in the background working there, 730 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but they also have curated collections by Bill Gates and Bono 731 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 and, you know, other famous folks, 732 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 or in some cases, they're people who are less famous 733 99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999 but, you know, are very well-known within their, you know, their more restricted field. 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