0:00:14.007,0:00:15.639 Katharina Grosse: It’s very fascinating for me 0:00:15.639,0:00:18.780 to reset the idea what a painting can be. 0:00:18.780,0:00:23.250 It’s not like a formal issue only about[br]volume and color, 0:00:23.250,0:00:27.539 but it’s also how could painting appear[br]in this public space? 0:00:28.182,0:00:29.935 The surface is very rough and clunky, 0:00:29.935,0:00:31.670 and I do something like a watercolor on top, 0:00:31.670,0:00:32.899 which is quite bizarre. 0:00:33.488,0:00:37.370 So it’s actually a very intimate kind of painting, 0:00:37.370,0:00:38.980 but just on a very large scale. 0:00:38.980,0:00:41.220 So it’s as if you’re thinking out loud, 0:00:41.220,0:00:43.040 that’s a little bit how I work. 0:00:43.950,0:00:48.000 And what comes up in the end is a volume floating[br]through this forest. 0:00:50.269,0:00:55.470 I saw the space and had immediately the feeling[br]it could be very, very interesting to work 0:00:55.470,0:00:56.550 with the trees-- 0:00:56.871,0:01:01.750 to make the trees a very and significant part[br]of the overall image that would come about. 0:01:01.750,0:01:08.723 I’m very fascinated by the power of these[br]iconic images like the tree, the soil, 0:01:08.723,0:01:10.112 the landscape. 0:01:11.960,0:01:16.897 The trees are so strict,[br]like little soldiers in that park. 0:01:18.450,0:01:23.270 I thought, if I could place something in between[br]the trees that looks like gigantic driftwood, 0:01:23.270,0:01:26.360 that has come and swept in with some sort of power 0:01:26.360,0:01:28.424 that we can’t explain, but now it’s there. 0:01:35.920,0:01:39.890 The sheer presence of these things of different size 0:01:39.890,0:01:42.740 makes us think of something that must have happened, 0:01:42.740,0:01:45.245 but we can’t quite say what it is. 0:01:48.190,0:01:52.780 The trees are very fragile and small,[br]but yet they are taller than the work. 0:01:52.780,0:01:56.175 The trees also give a certain scale to my work. 0:01:57.728,0:02:02.209 The buildings around them are quite big[br]and that’s a big challenge for an outdoor work. 0:02:12.371,0:02:18.256 There’s a big team effort needed to do these[br]large sculptural works, especially for MetroTech. 0:02:19.970,0:02:22.610 That was the biggest piece I’ve done ever. 0:02:22.610,0:02:26.842 Eighteen pieces we needed to produce in a[br]relatively short amount of time. 0:02:28.930,0:02:32.068 I made models and then we discussed it via Skype. 0:02:32.550,0:02:34.450 Amaral had to make these works, 0:02:34.450,0:02:35.236 laminate them, 0:02:35.236,0:02:38.001 make them durable and hard[br]with fiberglass and resin. 0:02:39.661,0:02:41.849 We needed people to handle it, to prime it, 0:02:41.849,0:02:45.798 to get it into place to understand[br]how the pieces would work together. 0:04:04.560,0:04:06.986 I started to work with my brother three years ago. 0:04:07.976,0:04:09.090 He is an engineer. 0:04:09.572,0:04:14.890 It’s the first time I have somebody in my[br]team who is not coming from an art context. 0:04:15.158,0:04:20.350 He joined us when I was doing a huge project[br]for the Temporäre Kunsthalle in Berlin 0:04:20.350,0:04:23.980 where we constructed ellipses that were leaning[br]against walls. 0:04:23.980,0:04:26.338 And the ellipses were about 30 feet high. 0:04:27.650,0:04:31.480 We had to work with a boat builder and a structural engineer, 0:04:31.480,0:04:33.898 putting them together and hoisting them into place. 0:04:35.130,0:04:36.530 That was a great moment. 0:04:37.333,0:04:41.190 He has a really great way to connect the theoretical[br]thinking that’s needed 0:04:41.190,0:04:43.289 to understand the engineering process, 0:04:43.289,0:04:45.400 and he knows the language and all the words. 0:04:45.721,0:04:48.480 And then he can still come back to me at the[br]end of the day and say, 0:04:48.480,0:04:51.232 look we need that kind of bolt here. 0:04:55.302,0:04:57.697 We were very, very close when we were kids. 0:04:58.875,0:05:02.673 He grew into an indispensable member of my team. 0:05:22.020,0:05:25.541 My parents took us to a lot of things when[br]we were small. 0:05:26.130,0:05:28.160 I was seeing paintings, drawings. 0:05:28.160,0:05:30.310 We would also go to the theatre lots. 0:05:30.310,0:05:33.242 And both my parents are very influential in[br]that respect. 0:05:34.259,0:05:36.320 My mother would draw and paint, 0:05:36.320,0:05:39.150 but also then cook and bring us to music lessons. 0:05:39.578,0:05:41.970 And she didn’t label herself artist. 0:05:41.970,0:05:46.205 I started to tell myself that I actually had[br]a mother who was an artist. 0:05:46.205,0:05:50.145 She was the one to find out that[br]I maybe had visual talent. 0:05:50.520,0:05:53.389 One morning I had done a little watercolor. 0:05:53.389,0:05:56.440 I had copied a black and white photograph[br]from a newspaper. 0:05:56.440,0:05:58.146 She thought it was amazing. 0:05:58.146,0:06:00.000 She urged me to go on. 0:06:02.210,0:06:05.647 My mom would also make us paint the garage walls. 0:06:06.370,0:06:09.090 She would gather all the kids and say,[br]let’s make little drawings and 0:06:09.090,0:06:11.050 see what the big picture could be like. 0:06:11.050,0:06:14.297 It was a natural thing to paint things. 0:06:43.717,0:06:47.099 My work is not idea based,[br]it’s really thought based. 0:06:47.099,0:06:51.190 The thought is a more fluid feel that gets feedback 0:06:51.190,0:06:53.868 and is being changed while I do what I [br]do. 0:06:54.660,0:06:59.363 So there is an overall agreement that[br]I have with myself as I start something. 0:07:01.639,0:07:03.900 That agreement is based on a judgment. 0:07:04.328,0:07:09.250 For example, I want to have two elements coincide[br]that exclude one another. 0:07:09.250,0:07:14.840 How could that work in that painting or[br]in that situation that I have in a gallery 0:07:14.840,0:07:17.254 with a certain architectural setup? 0:07:17.789,0:07:22.919 As I work, as I use my painting tools and colors, 0:07:22.919,0:07:29.120 then I am getting an instantaneous feedback[br]by the materialization of that first agreement 0:07:29.120,0:07:33.027 that might then change the relationship[br]I have with the agreement. 0:07:35.410,0:07:36.480 All these notions, 0:07:36.480,0:07:39.539 the further steps that are changing again and again, 0:07:39.539,0:07:43.289 that is that thought process that I find infinitely interesting, 0:07:43.289,0:07:47.295 that can’t be fixed and written down as I start. 0:07:52.810,0:07:56.819 I wanted to do something for the Nasher that[br]was not a sculpture 0:07:56.819,0:08:02.019 and that was not really using the space as[br]a display space. 0:08:03.545,0:08:06.539 There are two very large glass panels 0:08:06.539,0:08:08.040 and the rest is just walls. 0:08:08.040,0:08:09.470 And you could move through this. 0:08:09.470,0:08:12.319 So you, you had the vista through the building, 0:08:12.319,0:08:16.912 into the garden and in the garden were plants[br]and sculptures that looked a little bit alike. 0:08:21.784,0:08:25.515 How do you actually make yourself visible[br]in that situation? 0:08:25.515,0:08:31.875 Something like negative space coinciding[br]with super large paint movements. 0:08:32.330,0:08:37.500 Quite amazing that my invitation to a sculpture[br]museum coincides with 0:08:37.500,0:08:40.729 a moment where I wanted to do a negative space of volume 0:08:40.729,0:08:43.908 with a painting sitting on top of that negative space. 0:08:44.470,0:08:48.000 That is a fantastic confrontation of these[br]two thoughts. 0:08:59.218,0:09:05.290 I started to see that experiment as something[br]that would just sit in the space 0:09:05.290,0:09:08.350 as if it was taken out of the box and discarded. 0:09:08.350,0:09:11.769 So I did not want the piece in relationship[br]to other things, 0:09:11.769,0:09:14.019 I just wanted to have it leaning against a wall 0:09:14.019,0:09:19.310 so that it would sit exactly where the wall[br]and the floor meet 0:09:19.310,0:09:23.850 and that kind of joint would be then[br]covered by the thing that I do. 0:09:23.850,0:09:27.839 So you can’t really tell the floor[br]and the wall apart anymore 0:09:27.839,0:09:32.705 because they are in terms of color very close[br]in the Nasher with the limestone and the floor. 0:09:35.730,0:09:39.230 And I did something for them that[br]would move out of the space as well. 0:09:39.230,0:09:43.945 So I wanted something that was inside[br]and was going outside behind the glass panel. 0:10:18.190,0:10:22.690 This is the Kunsthaus in Graz in Austria and[br]it’s an amazing building. 0:10:22.690,0:10:24.306 It’s a bubble. 0:10:24.306,0:10:25.377 It’s a very organic shape. 0:10:26.475,0:10:30.330 And I’m going to do a show there which has[br]to do with 0:10:30.330,0:10:31.899 one of my core questions, 0:10:31.899,0:10:36.540 how can painting appear in space and[br]what do I need to show the painting? 0:10:36.808,0:10:39.269 I don’t want to put walls in the space that then 0:10:39.269,0:10:41.283 enable me to show canvases. 0:10:46.691,0:10:48.600 The metal cage is the roof. 0:10:48.600,0:10:51.930 We made it this way so that I can work in[br]the space from above. 0:10:51.930,0:10:57.089 These Styrofoam blocks are solid walls[br]that I could also possibly paint on. 0:10:57.089,0:11:02.579 Other than the Styrofoam blocks I have[br]no walls that define the space. 0:11:03.701,0:11:08.340 There are no windows except these openings[br]in the ceiling where I have lights. 0:11:09.223,0:11:15.389 I’m using canvas or some very thick cloth,[br]maybe some sort of sailcloth. 0:11:15.389,0:11:16.829 And I want to crumple it. 0:11:16.829,0:11:19.540 And at times I want to make a painting on[br]that surface 0:11:19.540,0:11:20.590 and at other times, 0:11:20.590,0:11:25.592 you can just walk on the canvas or can walk[br]through the exhibition. 0:11:28.671,0:11:31.440 The painting process is all going to be done[br]on site. 0:11:32.538,0:11:36.760 We are trying to find out,[br]how can I build these creases and these folds 0:11:36.760,0:11:37.950 to scale? 0:11:37.950,0:11:42.850 Because I find the space that is coming about[br]by folding things quite interesting. 0:11:44.108,0:11:51.272 I like that you are walking in a structure[br]that is difficult to see as a whole. 0:11:54.267,0:11:58.730 I’m really fascinated by that condition[br]of us being 0:11:58.730,0:12:02.120 in something and at the same time looking at it. 0:12:02.120,0:12:04.495 I think that’s the condition we have all the time. 0:12:04.870,0:12:06.310 That has a lot to do with scale. 0:12:06.310,0:12:10.290 I think that we are able to think so big and[br]at the same time 0:12:10.290,0:12:14.019 we’re actually quite small in relationship[br]to what is around us. 0:12:14.019,0:12:17.410 So you’re constantly changing in size as[br]you walk through. 0:12:18.000,0:12:22.560 The scale shift in this exhibition is really[br]something that I’m very interested in. 0:12:22.560,0:12:25.784 That, that is also what I thought was in Nasher[br]so fascinating. 0:12:28.890,0:12:31.100 The dirt room downstairs was the only space 0:12:31.100,0:12:34.650 that didn’t have any relationship to the[br]outside garden. 0:12:34.650,0:12:39.440 And upstairs I had the more analytical piece[br]that was actually confronted with, 0:12:39.440,0:12:41.784 with the garden and the plants and so on. 0:12:44.622,0:12:46.660 I’m very adventuresome. 0:12:46.660,0:12:49.933 I grew up hiking and climbing in the mountains. 0:12:51.459,0:12:55.940 Later on I started to be very fascinated[br]with the space that you encounter 0:12:55.940,0:12:58.790 in landscape and in painting a landscape, 0:12:58.790,0:13:04.085 because you’re sitting somewhere vast[br]and you have this 360 degree angle around you. 0:13:04.710,0:13:07.278 And then you start to think is there an order? 0:13:07.278,0:13:08.251 What do I perceive? 0:13:08.251,0:13:12.525 And how do I actually design an order[br]for what I’m surrounded by? 0:13:15.631,0:13:18.377 Landscape is an un-bureaucratic space. 0:13:19.100,0:13:22.480 The hierarchic shift is so fast in landscape. 0:13:22.480,0:13:25.339 Something that was useful a minute ago turns out to be 0:13:25.339,0:13:29.080 not so interesting two steps further[br]to the right, for example. 0:13:29.080,0:13:35.880 So there is a very unstable,[br]very fluid sense for hierarchy in landscape. 0:13:40.057,0:13:42.420 WOMAN #1:[br]I’m really curious to know how the idea 0:13:42.420,0:13:43.710 about the piece came up 0:13:43.710,0:13:46.003 and where you got your inspiration from. 0:13:47.047,0:13:49.250 Katharina Grosse:[br]Everybody knows a tree, one way or another. 0:13:49.250,0:13:51.181 You go into the park or into the woods. 0:13:52.466,0:13:53.760 But something has happened to the trees, 0:13:53.760,0:13:54.850 we don’t know what it is, 0:13:54.850,0:13:56.558 but they are not where they normally are. 0:13:59.690,0:14:03.680 I love what happens to this material[br]and to this image when it’s painted. 0:14:03.680,0:14:05.610 That turns it to something else. 0:14:06.681,0:14:10.009 Something that’s not the tree[br]and at the same time it’s a tree. 0:14:10.009,0:14:11.518 And I love this paradox. 0:14:11.518,0:14:13.930 WOMAN #1:[br]So that’s where the title originates also? 0:14:13.930,0:14:15.820 Katharina Grosse:[br]Yeah, you don’t really know. 0:14:15.820,0:14:21.300 You see something far away and then you think,[br]oh that’s, that looks like a bird. 0:14:21.300,0:14:23.435 And then you come close and it’s a plastic bag. 0:14:24.399,0:14:27.780 And I think this kind of ambiguity is there[br]all the time. 0:14:31.046,0:14:32.500 WOMAN #1:[br]Was it the first time that you have been 0:14:32.500,0:14:34.520 working with this kind of material? 0:14:34.520,0:14:35.092 Katharina Grosse:[br]With a tree? 0:14:35.092,0:14:35.592 Yeah. 0:14:35.592,0:14:36.092 WOMAN #1:[br]With the tree? 0:14:36.092,0:14:39.660 Katharina Grosse:[br]I was starting to be interested in this whole 0:14:39.660,0:14:42.060 tradition of the painted sculpture, 0:14:42.060,0:14:46.600 of the painted 3-D thing you know. 0:14:46.600,0:14:49.570 And I’ve used a couple of these things that[br]are so strong, 0:14:49.570,0:14:51.370 like the dirt or the soil, 0:14:51.370,0:14:53.147 that is so important to our life. 0:14:57.668,0:15:03.977 The woods are really amazing as a structure[br]as all of a sudden this linear thing splits. 0:15:10.215,0:15:13.070 WOMAN #2: So you had a few pieces,[br]how did you put them together? 0:15:13.070,0:15:15.680 Katharina Grosse:[br]You can see, here is a cut. 0:15:15.680,0:15:16.680 That’s the tree. 0:15:16.680,0:15:17.680 This one was put together. 0:15:17.680,0:15:18.751 So it’s all fiction. 0:15:19.447,0:15:21.750 Once you are starting to feel, ah, that’s[br]a real tree, 0:15:21.750,0:15:22.750 you see the cut. 0:15:24.463,0:15:26.132 It’s more like an edited tree. 0:15:26.775,0:15:27.775 WOMAN #2:[br]Right. 0:15:27.775,0:15:28.373 Katharina Grosse:[br]Yeah. 0:15:28.373,0:15:31.501 WOMAN #2:[br]And how did you choose the colors? 0:15:31.501,0:15:34.589 Katharina Grosse:[br]It has to do with the light that you have 0:15:34.589,0:15:35.589 in the space. 0:15:35.589,0:15:36.863 The space is quite dark. 0:15:37.639,0:15:40.329 So I wanted to have something that reflects[br]as well, 0:15:40.329,0:15:42.446 so the yellow was important for me. 0:15:43.570,0:15:45.649 The yellow in front of here does something[br]totally different 0:15:45.649,0:15:47.120 than the yellow behind the roots. 0:15:47.120,0:15:48.120 Right. 0:15:48.120,0:15:49.839 Because it kind of glows. 0:15:49.839,0:15:50.674 WOMAN #2:[br]Yeah. 0:15:54.000,0:15:56.745 Katharina Grosse:[br]The colors I use are so raw, they are not mixed. 0:15:58.130,0:16:02.778 I like this raw, direct thing that they have[br]with your body. 0:16:03.980,0:16:06.293 It’s like voice, like the voice of a singer I think, 0:16:06.293,0:16:08.042 that’s what color very much has. 0:16:09.040,0:16:10.520 WOMAN #1:[br]Yeah, you had a lot to say. 0:16:10.610,0:16:11.882 Katharina Grosse:[br]Yeah, yeah. 0:16:12.000,0:16:13.594 I had a lot to say, yeah, yeah. 0:16:36.576,0:16:38.962 MAN #1:[br]All the blocks form one large canvas. 0:16:40.459,0:16:44.980 Now that Katharina has painted,[br]we need to put that canvas back together. 0:16:44.980,0:16:49.380 So that’s why lining up the marks of her[br]brushstrokes, 0:16:49.380,0:16:50.380 if you will, 0:16:50.380,0:16:54.711 is very important and actually[br]vital to the sculpture itself. 0:17:03.331,0:17:04.459 Katharina Grosse:[br]Am I a painter? 0:17:04.459,0:17:05.459 Am I a sculptor? 0:17:05.459,0:17:06.357 I don’t know. 0:17:07.174,0:17:09.920 I’m talking to the world while painting on it. 0:17:09.920,0:17:11.170 Or with it. 0:17:11.170,0:17:12.000 Or in it. 0:17:12.420,0:17:17.317 Therefore there is a collision of things with[br]the painted image. 0:17:17.317,0:17:21.738 Something comes about by this collision[br]that can’t be taken apart anymore. 0:17:30.289,0:17:33.330 There is the plastic or sculptural thing. 0:17:33.330,0:17:35.830 If I take it away, the painting isn’t there anymore 0:17:35.830,0:17:37.289 and if I take my painting away, 0:17:37.289,0:17:40.270 then this metamorphosis isn’t there anymore. 0:17:40.270,0:17:44.679 So these things kind of stick together,[br]even though they are coming from two very 0:17:44.679,0:17:46.188 distinctive worlds. 0:17:49.772,0:17:53.000 It’s not necessary to decide that you are[br]a painter or a sculptor. 0:17:53.000,0:17:57.235 It doesn’t make your work more radical or[br]more clear. 0:18:16.923,0:18:19.520 I totally enjoy to look at things. 0:18:19.520,0:18:21.427 And I want something cool to look at. 0:18:22.039,0:18:24.422 So I make this for myself also a lot. 0:18:25.964,0:18:31.663 I immensely enjoy when doing it what[br]comes out of it during the making. 0:18:33.138,0:18:36.200 I amuse myself, you know, I entertain myself. 0:18:36.200,0:18:41.692 But it has to be complex and fun and ridiculous and tricky. 0:18:41.692,0:18:45.859 There, it’s about tricks, that I play to[br]myself and to others. 0:18:46.539,0:18:49.068 I am the trickster really, the painting trickster. 0:18:49.068,0:18:52.430 Don’t believe me, I guess.