WEBVTT 00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:02.356 Chris Anderson: Al, welcome. 00:00:02.356 --> 00:00:04.842 So look, just six months ago, 00:00:04.842 --> 00:00:08.582 it seems a lifetime ago, but it really was just six months ago, 00:00:08.582 --> 00:00:13.770 climate seemed to be on the lips of every thinking person on the planet. 00:00:14.761 --> 00:00:18.484 Recent events seem to have swept it all away from our attention. 00:00:18.848 --> 00:00:21.150 How worried are you about that? NOTE Paragraph 00:00:22.352 --> 00:00:25.879 Al Gore: Well, first of all Chris, thank you so much for inviting me 00:00:25.879 --> 00:00:27.179 to have this conversation. 00:00:27.179 --> 00:00:30.904 People are reacting differently 00:00:30.904 --> 00:00:32.577 to the climate crisis 00:00:32.577 --> 00:00:35.399 in the midst of these other great challenges 00:00:35.399 --> 00:00:38.718 that have taken over our awareness, 00:00:38.718 --> 00:00:40.052 appropriately. 00:00:40.453 --> 00:00:44.153 One reason is something that you mentioned. 00:00:44.153 --> 00:00:46.698 People get the fact that when scientists 00:00:46.698 --> 00:00:48.100 are warning us 00:00:48.100 --> 00:00:49.701 in ever more dire terms 00:00:49.701 --> 00:00:52.170 and setting their hair on fire, so to speak, 00:00:52.170 --> 00:00:54.946 it's best to listen to what they're saying, 00:00:54.946 --> 00:00:59.322 and I think that lesson has begun to sink in in a new way. 00:00:59.534 --> 00:01:01.936 Another similarity, by the way, 00:01:01.936 --> 00:01:03.978 is that the climate crisis, 00:01:03.978 --> 00:01:06.809 like the COVID-19 pandemic, 00:01:06.809 --> 00:01:09.572 has revealed in a new way 00:01:09.572 --> 00:01:13.243 the shocking injustices and inequalities 00:01:13.243 --> 00:01:16.913 and disparities that affect communities of color 00:01:17.113 --> 00:01:21.684 and low-income communities. 00:01:21.684 --> 00:01:23.359 There are differences. 00:01:23.359 --> 00:01:27.947 The climate crisis has effects that are not measured in years, 00:01:28.147 --> 00:01:29.819 as the pandemic is, 00:01:29.819 --> 00:01:34.726 but consequences that are measured in centuries and even longer. 00:01:34.726 --> 00:01:36.317 And the other difference 00:01:36.317 --> 00:01:39.747 is that instead of depressing economic activity 00:01:39.747 --> 00:01:41.633 to deal with the climate crisis, 00:01:41.633 --> 00:01:46.081 as nations around the world have had to do with COVID-19, 00:01:46.478 --> 00:01:51.182 we have the opportunity to create tens of millions of new jobs. 00:01:51.432 --> 00:01:54.231 That sounds like a political phrasing, 00:01:54.231 --> 00:01:56.362 but it's literally true. 00:01:56.362 --> 00:01:58.181 For the last five years, 00:01:58.181 --> 00:02:01.518 the fastest-growing job in the US has been solar installer. 00:02:01.518 --> 00:02:04.876 The second fastest has been wind turbine technician. 00:02:04.876 --> 00:02:08.413 And the Oxford Review of Economics 00:02:08.413 --> 00:02:10.298 just a few weeks ago 00:02:10.298 --> 00:02:16.178 pointed the way to a very jobs-rich recovery 00:02:16.178 --> 00:02:20.364 if we emphasize renewable energy and sustainability technology. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So I think we are crossing a tipping point, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and you need only look at the recovery plans 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that are being presented in nations around the world 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to see that they're very much focused on a green recovery. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 CA: I mean, one obvious impact of the pandemic 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 is that it's brought the world's economy to a shuddering halt, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 thereby reducing greenhouse gas emissions. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I mean, how big an effect has that been, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and is it unambiguously good news? NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 AG: Well, it's a little bit of an illusion, Chris, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and you need only look back to the Great Recession in 2008 and '9, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 where there was a one percent decline in emissions, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 but then in 2010 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 they came roaring back during the recovery 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 with a four percent increase. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 The latest estimates are that emissions will go down by at least five percent 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 during this induced coma, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 as the economist Paul Krugman perceptively described it, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 but whether it goes back the way it did after the Great Recession 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 is in part up to us, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and if these green recovery plans are actually implemented, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and I know many countries are determined to implement them, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 then we need not repeat that pattern. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 After all, this whole process is occurring 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 during a period when the cost of renewable energy and electric vehicles, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 batteries, and a range of other sustainability approaches 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 are continuing to fall in price, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and they're becoming much more competitive. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Just a quick reference to how fast this is: 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 five years ago, electricity from solar and wind 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 was cheaper than electricity from fossil fuels 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 in only one percent of the world. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 This year, it's cheaper in two thirds of the world, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and five years from now 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 it will be cheaper in virtually 100 percent of the world. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 EVs will be cost-competitive within two years, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and then will continue falling in price. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And so there are changes underway 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that could interrupt the pattern we saw after the Great Recession. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 CA: The reason those pricing differentials happen in different parts of the world 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 is obviously just because 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 there's different amounts of sunshine and wind there 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and different building costs and so forth. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 AG: Well, yes, and government policies also count for a lot. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 The world is continuing to subsidize fossil fuels 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 at a ridiculous amount, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 moreso may developing countries than in the US and developed countries, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 but it's subsidized here as well. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 But everywhere in the world, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 wind and solar will be cheaper as a source of electricity 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 than fossil fuels within a few years. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 CA: I think I've heard it said that the fall in emissions 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 caused the pandemic 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 isn't that much more 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 than the fall that we will need every single year 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 if we're to meet emissions targets. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Is that true, and, if so, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 doesn't that seem impossibly daunting? NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 AG: It does seem daunting, but first look at the number. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 That number came from a study a little over a year ago 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 released by the IPCC 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 as to what it would take 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to keep the Earth's temperatures 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 from increasing more than 1.5 degrees Celsius. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And yes, the annual reductions would be significant, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 on the order of what we've seen with the pandemic. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And yes, that does seem daunting. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 However, we do have the opportunity to make some fairly dramatic changes, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and the plan is not a mystery. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 You start with the two sectors that are closest to an effective transition -- 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 electricity generation, as I mentioned, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and last year, 2019, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 if you look at all of the new electricity generation built 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 all around the world, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 72 percent of it was from solar and wind. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And already, without the continuing subsidies for fossil fuels, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 we would see many more of these plants 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 being shut down. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 There are some new fossil plants being built, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 but many more are being shut down. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And where transportation is concerned, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 the second sector ready to go, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 in addition to the cheaper prices for EVs that I made reference to before, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 there are some 45 jurisdictions around the world -- 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 national, regional, and municipal -- 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 where laws have been passed beginning a phaseout 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 of internal combustion engines. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Even India said that by 2030, less than 10 years from now, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 it will be illegal to sell any new internal combustion engines 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 in India. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 There are many other examples. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So the past small reductions 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 may not be an accurate guide 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to the kind we can achieve 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 with serious national plans 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and a focused global effort. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 CA: So help us understand just the big picture here, Al. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I think before the pandemic, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 the world was emitting 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 about 55 gigatons of what they call CO2 equivalent, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 so that includes other greenhouse gases 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 like methane dialed up to be the equivalent of CO2. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And am I right in saying that the IPCC, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 which is the global organization of scientists, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 is recommending that the only way to fix this crisis 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 is to get that number from 55 to zero 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 by 2050 at the very latest, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and that even then that there's a chance that we will end up with temperature rises 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 more like two degrees Celsius rather than 1.5. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I mean, is that approximately the big picture 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 of what the IPCC is recommending? NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 AG: That's correct. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 The global goal established in the Paris Conference 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 is to get to net zero on a global basis 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 by 2050, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and many people quickly add 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that that really means a 45 to 50 percent reduction by 2030 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to make that pathway 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to net zero feasible. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 CA: And that kind of timeline is the kind of timeline 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 where people can't even imagine. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 It's just hard to think of policy over 30 years. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So that's actually a very good shorthand, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that humanity's task is to cut emissions in half by 2030, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 approximately speaking, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 which I think boils down to 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 about a seven or eight percent reduction a year, something like that, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 if I'm not wrong. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 AG: Not quite. Not quite that large, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 but close, yes. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 CA: So it is something like the effect that we've experienced this year 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 maybe be necessary. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 This year we've done it by basically shutting down the economy. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 You're talking about a way of doing it over the coming years 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that actually gives some economic growth and new jobs. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So talk more about that. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 You've referred to changing our energy sources, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 changing how we transport. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 If we did those things, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 how much of the problem does that solve? NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 AG: Well, we can get to, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 well, in addition to doing the two sectors that I mentioned, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 we also have to deal with manufacturing and all the use cases 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that require temperatures to a thousand degrees Celsius, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and there are solutions there as well. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I'll come back and mention an exciting one that Germany has just embarked upon. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 We also have to tackle regenerative agriculture. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 There is the opportunity 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to sequester a great deal of carbon 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 in topsoils around the world 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 by changing the agricultural techniques. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 There is a farmer-led movement to do that. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 We need to also retrofit buildings. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 We need to change our management of forests and the ocean. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 But let me just mention two things briefly. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 First of all, the high temperature use cases. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Angela Merkel, just 10 days ago, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 with the leadership of her Minister Peter Altmaier, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 who is a good friend and a great public servant, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 have just embarked on a green hydrogen strategy 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to make hydrogen 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 with zero marginal cost renewable energy. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And just a word on that, Chris, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 you've heard about the intermittency of wind and solar. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Solar doesn't produce electricity when the sun's not shining 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and wind doesn't when the wind's not blowing. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 But batteries are getting better, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and these technologies are becoming much more efficient and powerful, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 so that for an increasing number of hours of each day, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 they're producing often way more electricity than can be used. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So what to do with it? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 The marginal cost for the next kilowatt-hour is zero. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So all of a sudden, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 the very energy-intensive process of cracking hydrogen from water 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 becomes economically feasible, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and it can be substituted 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 for coal and gas, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and that's already being done. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 There's a Swedish company already making steel 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 with green hydrogen, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and as I say Germany has just embarked on a major new initiative to do that. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I think they're pointing the way for the rest of the world. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Now, where building retrofits are concerned, just a moment on this, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 because about 20 to 25 percent of the global warming pollution 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 in the world and in the US 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 comes from inefficient buildings 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that were constructed 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 by companies and individuals 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 who were trying to be competitive in the marketplace 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and keep their margins acceptably high 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and thereby skimping on insulation and the right windows 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and LEDs and the rest. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And yet the person or company that buys that building 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 or leases that building, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 they want their monthly utility bills much lower. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So there are now ways 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to close that so-called agent-principal divide, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 the differing incentives for the building and occupier, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and we can retrofit buildings with a program that literally pays for itself 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 over three to five years, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and we could put tens of millions of people to work 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 in jobs that by definition cannot be outsourced 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 because they exist in every single community. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And we really ought to get serious about doing this, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 because we're going to need all those jobs 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to get sustainable prosperity in the aftermath of this pandemic. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 CA: Just coming back to the hydrogen economy 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that you referred to there, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 when some people hear that, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 they think, oh, are you talking about hydrogen-fueled cars? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And they've heard that that probably won't be a winning strategy. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 But you're thinking much more broadly than that, I think, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that it's not just hydrogen as a kind of storage mechanism 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to act as a buffer for renewable energy, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 but also hydrogen could be essential 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 for some of the other processes in the economy like making steel, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 making cement 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that are fundamentally carbon-intensive processes right now 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 but could be transformed if we had much cheaper sources of hydrogen. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Is that right? NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 AG: Yes, I was always skeptical about hydrogen, Chris, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 principally because it's been so expensive 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to make it, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to crack it out of water, as they say. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 But the game-changer has been the incredible abundance 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 of solar and wind electricity in volumes and amounts 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that people didn't expect, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and all of a sudden it's cheap enough to use 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 for these very energy-intensive processes 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 like creating green hydrogen. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I'm still a bit skeptical about using it in vehicles. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Toyota's been betting on that for 25 years and hasn't really worked for them. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Never say never, maybe it will, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 but I think it's most useful for these high-temperature industrial processes, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and we already have a pathway for decarbonizing transportation 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 with electricity 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that's working extremely well. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Tesla's going to be soon the most valuable automobile company in the world, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 already in the US, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and they're about to overtake Toyota. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 There is now a semi truck company 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that's been stood up by Tesla 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and another that is going to be a hybrid with electricity and green hydrogen, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 so we'll see whether or not they can make it work in that application. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 But I think electricity is preferable for cars and trucks. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 CA: We're coming to some community questions in a minute. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Let me ask you, though, about nuclear. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Some environmentalists believe that nuclear, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 or maybe new generation nuclear power 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 is an essential part of the equation 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 if we're to get to a truly clean future, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 a clean energy future. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Are you still pretty skeptical on nuclear, Al? NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 AG: Well, the market's skeptical about it, Chris. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 It's been a crushing disappointment for me and for so many. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I used to represent Oak Ridge, where nuclear energy began, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and when I was a young congressman 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I was a booster. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I was very enthusiastic about it. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 But the cost overruns 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and the problems in building these plants 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 have become so severe 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that utilities just don't have an appetite for them. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 It's become the most expensive source of electricity. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Now, let me hasten to add that there are some older nuclear reactors 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that have more useful time that could be added on to their lifetimes, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and like a lot of environmentalists I've come to the view 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that if they can be determined to be safe, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 they should be allowed to continue operating for a time. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 But where new nuclear power plants are concerned, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 here's a way to look at it. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 If you are -- you've been a CEO, Chris. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 If you were the CEO of -- I guess you still are. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 If you were the CEO of an electric utility, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and you told your executive team, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 "I want to build a nuclear power plant," 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 two of the first questions you would ask are, number one, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 how much will it cost? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And there's not a single engineering consulting firm 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that I've been able to find anywhere in the world 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that will put their name on an opinion 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 giving you a cost estimate. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 They just don't know. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 A second question you would ask is, how long will it take to build it 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 so we can start selling the electricity? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And again the answer you will get is, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 we have no idea. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So if you don't know how much it's going to cost, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and you don't know when it's going to be finished, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and you already know that the electricity is more expensive 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 than the alternate ways to produce it, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that's going to be a little discouraging, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and in fact that's been the case for utilities around the world. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 CA: OK. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So there's definitely an interesting debate there, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 but we're going to come on to some community questions. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Let's have the first of those questions up please. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 From Prosanta Chakrbarty: 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 "People who are skeptical of COVID and of climate change 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 seem to be skeptical of science in general. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 It may be that the singular message from scientists 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 gets diluted and convoluted. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 How do we fix that? NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 AG: Yeah, that's a great question, Prosanta. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Boy, I'm trying to put this succinctly and shortly. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I think that there has been 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 a feeling that experts in general 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 have kind of let the US down, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and that feeling is much more pronounced in the US than in most other countries. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And I think that considered opinion 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 of what we call experts 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 has been diluted over the last few decades 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 by the unhealthy dominance of big money in our political system 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 which has found ways to really twist economic policy 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to benefit elites, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and this sounds a little radical 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 but it's actually what has happened. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And we have gone for more than 40 years 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 without any meaningful increase in middle income pay, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and where the injustice experienced by African Americans 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and other communities of color are concerned, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 the differential in pay between African Americans and majority Americans 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 is the same as it was in 1968, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and the family wealth, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 the net worth, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 it takes 11 and a half so-called "typical" African American families 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to make up the net worth of one so-called "typical" White American family. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And you look at the soaring incomes 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 in the top one 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 or the top one tenth of one percent, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and people say, "Wait a minute. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Whoever the experts were that designed these policies, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 they haven't been doing a good job for me." 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 A final point, Chris, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 there has been an assault on reason. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 There has been a war against truth. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 There has been a strategy, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 maybe it was best known as a strategy decades ago by the tobacco companies 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 who hired actors and dressed them up as doctors to falsely reassure people 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that there were no health consequences 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 from smoking cigarettes, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and a hundred million people died as a result. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 That same strategy of diminishing the significance of truth, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 diminishing, as someone said, the authority of knowledge, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I think that has made it open season 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 on any inconvenient truth -- 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 forgive another buzz phrase -- 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 but it is apt. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 We cannot abandon our devotion to the best available evidence 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 tested in reasoned discourse 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and used as the basis 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 for the best policies we can form. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 CA: Is it possible, Al, that one consequence of the pandemic 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 is actually a growing number of people 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 have revisited their opinions 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 on scientists? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I mean, you've had a chance in the last few months to say, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 do I trust my political leader or do I trust this scientist 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 in terms of what they're saying 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 about this virus. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Maybe lessons from that could be carried forward? NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 AG: Well, you know, I think if the polling is accurate, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 people do trust their doctors a lot more than some of the politicians 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 who seem to have a vested interest in pretending the pandemic isn't real. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And if you look at the incredible bust 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 at President Trump's rally in Tulsa, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 a stadium of 19,000 people 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 with less than one third filled, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 according to the fire marshal, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 you saw all the empty seats 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 if you saw the news clips, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 so even the most loyal Trump supporters 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 must have decided to trust their doctors 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and the medical advice 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 rather than Dr. Donald Trump. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 CA: With a little help from the TikTok generation, per chance. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 AG: Well, but that didn't affect the turnout. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 What they did, very cleverly, and I'm cheering them on, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 what they did was affect the Trump White House's expectations. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 They're the reason why he went out a couple days beforehand 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and said, "We've had a million people sign up." 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 But they didn't prevent, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 they didn't take seats that others could have otherwise taken. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 They didn't affect the turnout, just the expectations. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 CA: OK, let's have our next question here. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 "Are you concerned the world will rush back to the use of the private car 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 out of fear of using shared public transportation?" NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 AG: Well, that could actually be one of the consequences, absolutely. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Now, the trends on mass transit 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 were already inching in the wrong direction 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 because of Uber and Lyft 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and the ridesharing services, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and if autonomy ever reaches the goals that its advocates have hoped for 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 then that may also have a similar effect. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 But there's no doubt that some people 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 are gonna be probably a little more reluctant to take mass transportation 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 until the fear of this pandemic 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 is well and truly gone. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 CA: Yeah. Might need a vaccine on that one. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 AG: (Laughs) Yeah. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 CA: Next question. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Sonaar Luthra, thank you for this question from LA. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 "Given the temperature rise in the Arctic this past week, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 seems like the rate we are losing our carbon sinks 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 like permafrost or forests is accelerating faster than we predicted. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Are our models too focused on human emissions?" 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Interesting question. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 AG: Well, the models are focused on the factors that have led 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to these incredible temperature spikes 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 in the north of the Arctic Circle. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 They were predicted, they have been predicted, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and one of the reasons for it 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 is that as the snow and ice cover melts, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 the sun's incoming rays 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 are no longer reflected back into space at a 90 percent rate, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and instead when they fall on the dark tundra or the dark ocean, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 they're absorbed at a 90 percent rate. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So that's a magnifier 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 of the warming in the Arctic, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and this has been predicted. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 There are a number of other consequences that are also in the models, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 but some of them may have to be recalibrated. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 The scientists are freshly concerned 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that the emissions of both CO2 and methane 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 from the thawing tundra 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 could be larger than they had hoped they would be. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 There's also just been a brand new study. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I won't spend time on this, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 because it deals with a kind of geeky term called "climate sensitivity," 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 which has been a factor in the models with large error bars 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 because it's so hard to pin down. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 But the latest evidence indicates worryingly 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that the sensitivity may be greater than they had thought, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and we will have an even more daunting task. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 That shouldn't discourage us. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I truly believe that once we cross this tipping point, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and I do believe we're doing it now, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 as I've said, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 then I think we're going to find 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 a lot of ways to speed up the emissions reductions. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 CA: We'll take one more question from the community. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Haha. "Geoengineering is making extraordinary progress. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Exxon is investing in technology from Global Thermostat 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that seems promising. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 What do you think of these air and water carbon capture technologies?" 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Stephen Petranek. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 AG: Yeah. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Well, you and I have talked about this before, Chris. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I've been strongly opposed 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to conducting an unplanned global experiment 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that could go wildly wrong 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and most are really scared of that approach. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 However, the term geoengineering 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 is a nuanced term that covers a lot. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 If you want to paint roofs white to reflect more energy 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 from the cityscapes, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that's not going to bring a danger of a runaway effect, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and there are some other things that are loosely called "geoengineering" 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 like that which are fine. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 But the idea of blocking out the sun's rays, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that's insane in my opinion. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Turns out plants need sunlight for photosynthesis 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and solar panels need sunlight 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 for producing electricity from the sun's rays. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And the consequences of changing everything we know 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and pretending that the consequences are going to precisely cancel out 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 the unplanned experiment of global warming that we already have underway, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 you know, there are glitches in our thinking. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 One of them is called the single solution bias, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and there are people who just have a hunger to say, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 well, that one solution, we just need to latch on to that and do that, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and do that, and damn the consequences. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Well, it's nuts. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 CA: But let me push back on this just a little bit. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So let's say that we agree that a single solution 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 all-or-nothing attempt at geoengineering is crazy. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 But there are scenarios where the world looks at emissions and just sees 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 in 10 years' time, let's say, that they are just not coming down fast enough 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and that we are at risk 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 of several other liftoff events 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 where this train will just get away from us, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and we will see temperature rises of three, four, five, six, seven degrees 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and all of civilization is at risk. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Surely there is an approach to geoengineering 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that could be modeled in a way on the way that we approach medicine. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Like, for hundreds of years, we don't really understand the human body, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 people would try interventions 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and some of them would work and some of them wouldn't. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 No one says in medicine, you know, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 go in and take an all-or-nothing decision 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 on someone's life, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 but they do say, let's try some stuff. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 If an experiment can be reversible, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 if it's plausible in the first place, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 if there's reason to think that it might work, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 we actually owe it to the future health of humanity 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to try at least some types of tests to see what could work. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So small steps to see whether, for example, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 seeding of something in the ocean 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 might create, in a nonthreatening way, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 carbon sinks. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Or, rather than filling the atmosphere with sulfur dioxide, a smaller experiment 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that was not that big a deal to see whether, cost-effectively, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 you could reduce the temperature a little bit. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Surely that isn't completely crazy 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and is at least something we should be thinking about 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 in case these other measures don't work? NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 AG: Well, there've already been such experiments 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to seed the ocean 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to see if that can increase the uptake of CO2. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And the experiments were an unmitigated failure, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 as many predicted they would be. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 But that again 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 is the kind of approach 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that's very different 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 from putting tinfoil strips in the atmosphere orbiting the earth. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 That was the way that solar geoengineering proposal started. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Now they're focusing on chalk, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 so we have chalk dust all over everything. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 But more serious than that is the fact that it might not reversible. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 CA: But, Al, that's the rhetoric response. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 The amount of dust that you need 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to drop by a degree or two 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 wouldn't result in chalk dust over everything. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 It would be unbelievably, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 like, it would be less than the dust that people experience everyday anyway. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I mean, I just -- NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 AG: First of all, I don't know how you do a small experiment 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 in the atmosphere, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and secondly, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 if we were to take that approach, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 we would have to steadily increase 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 the amount of whatever substance they decided. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 We'd have to increase it every single year, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and if we ever stopped, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 then there would be a sudden snapback, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 like the Picture of Dorian Gray, that old book and movie, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 where suddenly all of the things caught up with you at once. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 The fact that anyone is even considering these approaches, Chris, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 is a measure of a feeling of desperation that some have begun to feel, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 which I understand 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 but I don't think it should drive us toward these reckless experiments. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And by the way, using your analogy to experimental cancer treatments, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 for example, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 you usually get informed consent from the patient. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Getting informed consent from 7.8 billion people 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 who have no voice and no say, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 who are subject to the potentially catastrophic consequences 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 of this whack-a-doodle proposal 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that somebody comes up with 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to try to rearrange the entire Earth's atmosphere 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and hope and pretend that it's going to cancel out, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 the fact that we're putting 152 million tons 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 of heat-trapping, man-made global warming pollution 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 into the sky every day. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 That's what's really insane. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 A scientist decades ago 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 compared it this way. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 He said, if you had two people on a sinking boat 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and one of them says, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 "You know, we could probably use some mirrors to signal to shore 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to get them to build 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 a sophisticated wave-generating machine 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that will cancel out the rocking of the boat 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 by these guys in the back of the boat." 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Or you could get them to stop rocking the boat. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And that's what we need to do. We need to stop what's causing the crisis. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 CA: Yeah, that's a great story, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 but if the effort to stop the people rocking in the back of the boat 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 is as complex as the scientific proposal you just outlined, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 whereas the experiment to stop the waves 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 is actually as simple as telling the people to stop rocking the boat, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that story changes. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And I think you're right that the issue of informed consent 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 is a really challenging one, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 but, I mean, no one gave informed consent 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to do all of the other things we're doing to the atmosphere. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And I agree that the moral hazard issue 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 is worrying, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that if we became dependent 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 on geoengineering 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and took away our efforts to do the rest, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that would be tragic. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 It just seems like, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I wish it was possible to have a nuanced debate 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 of people saying, you know what, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 there's multiple dials to a very complex problem. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 We're going to have to adjust several of them very, very carefully 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and keep talking to each other. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Wouldn't that be a goal 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to just try and have a more nuanced debate about this, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 rather than all of that geoengineering 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 can't work? NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 AG: Well, I've said some of it, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 you know, the benign forms that I've mentioned, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I'm not ruling those out, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 but blocking the Sun's rays from the Earth, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 not only do you affect 7.8 billion people, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 you affect the plants 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and the animals 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and the ocean currents 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and the wind currents 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and natural processes 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that we're in danger of disrupting even more. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So techno-optimism 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 is something I've engaged in 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 in the past, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 but to latch on to some brand new technological solution 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to rework the entire Earth's natural system 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 because somebody thinks he's clever enough 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to do it in a way that precisely cancels out 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 the consequences of using the atmosphere as an open sewer 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 for heat-trapping manmade gases. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 It's much more important to stop using the atmosphere as an open sewer. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 That's what the problem is. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 CA: All right, well we'll agree that that is the most important thing, for sure, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and speaking of which, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 do you believe the world needs carbon pricing, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and is there any prospect for getting there? NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 AG: Yes. Yes to both questions. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 For decades, almost every economist 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 who is asked about the climate crisis 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 says, "Well, we just need to put a price on carbon." 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And I have certainly been in favor of that approach. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 But it is daunting. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Nevertheless, there are 43 jurisdictions 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 around the world that already have a price on carbon. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 We're seeing it in Europe. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 They finally straightened out their carbon pricing mechanism. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 It's an emissions trading version of it. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 We have places that have put a tax on carbon. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 That's the approach the economists prefer. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 China is beginning to implement its national emissions trading program. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 California and quite a few other states in the US are already doing it. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 It can be given back to people 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 in a revenue-neutral way. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 But the opposition to it, Chris, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 which you've noted, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 is impressive enough 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that we do have to take other approaches, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and I would say most climate activists are now saying, look, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 let's don't make the best the enemy of the better. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 There are other ways to do this as well. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 We need every solution we can rationally employ, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 including by regulation 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and often when the political difficulty of a proposal becomes too difficult 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 in a market-oriented approach, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 the fallback is with regulation, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and it's been given a bad name, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 regulation, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 but many places are doing it. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I mentioned phasing out internal combustion engines. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 That's an example. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 There are 160 cities in the US 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that have already by regulation ordered that within a date certain 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 100 percent of all their electricity will have to come from renewable sources. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And again, the market forces that are driving the cost of renewable energy 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and sustainability solutions ever downward, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that gives us the wind at our back. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 This is working in our favor. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 CA: I mean, the pushback on carbon pricing 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 often goes further from parts of the environmental movement, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 which is to a pushback on the role of business in general. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Business is actually, well, capitalism is blamed 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 for the climate crisis 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 because of unrelenting growth, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to the point where many people don't trust business 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to be part of the solution. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 The only way to go forward 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 is to regulate, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to force businesses to do the right thing. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Do you think that business has to be part of the solution? NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 AG: Well, definitely, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 because the allocation of capital needed to solve this crisis 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 is greater than what governments can handle. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And businesses are beginning, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 many businesses are beginning 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to play a very constructive role. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 They're getting a demand that they do so 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 from their customers, from their investors, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 from their boards, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 from their executive teams, from their families. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And by the way, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 the rising generation is demanding a brighter future, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and when CEOs interview potential new hires, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 they find that the new hires are interviewing them. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 They want to make a nice income, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 but they want to be able to tell their family and friends 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and peers that they're doing something more than just making money. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 One illustration of how this new generation is changing, Chris: 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 there are 65 colleges in the US right now 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 where the College Young Republican Clubs 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 have joined together 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to jointly demand that the Republican National Committee 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 change its policy on climate, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 lest they lose that entire generation. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 This is a global phenomenon. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 The Greta Generation 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 is now leading this 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 in so many ways, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and if you look at the polling, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 again, the vast majority of young Republicans 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 are demanding a change on climate policy. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 This is really a movement 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that is building still. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 CA: I was going to ask you about that, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 because one of the most painful things over the last 20 years 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 has just been how climate has been politicized, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 certainly in the US. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 You've probably felt yourself at the heart of that a lot of the time, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 with people attacking you personally in the most merciless 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and unfair ways, often. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Do you really see signs 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that that might be changing, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 led by the next generation? NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 AG: Yeah, there's no question about it. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I don't want to rely on polls too much. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I've mentioned them already. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 But there was a new one that came out 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that looked at the wavering Trump supporters, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 those who supported him strongly in the past 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and want to do so again. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 The number one issue, surprisingly to some, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that is giving them pause, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 is the craziness of President Trump and his administration on climate. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 We're seeing big majorities of the Republican Party overall 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 saying that they're ready 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to start exploring some real solutions to the climate crisis. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I think that we're really getting there, no question about it. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 CA: I mean, you've been the figurehead for raising this issue, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and you happen to be a Democrat. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Is there anything 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that you can personally do 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to open the tent, to welcome people, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to try and say this is beyond politics, dear friends? NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 AG: Yeah. Well, I've tried all of those things, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and maybe it's made a little positive difference. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I've worked with the Republicans extensively. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And, you know, well after I left the White House, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I had Newt Gingrich and Pat Robertson 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and other prominent Republicans 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 appear on national TV ads with me 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 saying we've got to solve the climate crisis. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 But the petroleum industry 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 has really double down 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 in forcing discipline within the Republican Party. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I mean, look at the attacks they've launched against the Pope 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 when he came out with his encyclical 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and was demonized, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 not by all for sure, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 but there were hawks 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 in the anti-climate movement 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 who immediately started training their guns on Pope Francis, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and there are many other examples. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 They enforce discipline 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and try to make it a partisan issue, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 even as Democrats reach out 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and try to make it bipartisan. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I totally agree with you that it should not be a partisan issue. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 It didn't use to be, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 but it's been artificially weaponized as an issue. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 CA: I mean, the CEOs of oil companies also have kids 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 who are talking to them. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 It feels like some of them are moving 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and are trying to invest 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and trying to find ways of being part of the future. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Do you see signs of that? NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 AG: Yeah. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I think that business leaders, including in the oil and gas companies, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 are hearing from their families. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 They're hearing from the friends. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 They're hearing from their employees. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And, by the way, we've seen in the tech industry 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 some mass walkouts by employees 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 who are demanding that some of the tech companies 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 do more and get serious. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I'm so proud of Apple. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Forgive me for parenthetically praising Apple. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 You know I'm on the board, but I'm such a big fan of Tim Cook 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and my colleagues at Apple. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 It's an example of a tech company 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that's really doing fantastic things. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And there's some others as well. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 There are others in many industries. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 But the pressures on the oil and gas companies 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 are quite extraordinary. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 You know, BP just wrote down 12 and a half billion dollars' worth 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 of oil and gas assets 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and said that they're never going to see the light of day. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Two thirds of the fossil fuels that have already been discovered 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 cannot be burned and will not be burned. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And so that's a big economic risk 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to the global economy, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 like the subprime mortgage crisis. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 We've got 22 trillion dollars of subprime carbon assets 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and just yesterday there was a major report 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that the fracking industry in the US 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 is seeing now a wave of bankruptcies 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 because the price of the fracked gas and oil 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 has fallen below levels that make them economic. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 CA: Is the shorthand of what's happened there 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 is that electric cars 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and electric technologies and solar and so forth 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 have helped drive down the price of oil 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to the point where huge amounts of the reserves 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 just can't be developed profitably? NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 AG: Yes, that's it. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 That's mainly it. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 The projections for energy sources in the next several years 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 uniformly predict that electricity from wind and solar 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 is going to continue to plummet in price, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and therefore using gas or coal 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to make steam to turn the turbines 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 is just not going to be economical. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Similarly, the electrification of the transportation sector 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 is having the same effect. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Some are also looking at the trend 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 in national, regional and local governance. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I mentioned this before, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 but they're predicting a very different energy future. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 But let me come back, Chris, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 because we talked about business leaders. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I think you were getting in a question a moment ago about capitalism itself, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and I do want to say a word on that, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 because there are a lot of people who say 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 maybe capitalism is the basic problem. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I think the current form of capitalism we have is desperately in need of reform. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 The short-term outlook is often mentioned, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 but the way we measure what is of value to us 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 is also at the heart of the crisis of modern capitalism. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Now, capitalism is at the base of every successful economy, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and it balances supply and demand, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 unlocks a higher fraction of the human potential, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and it's not going anywhere, but it needs to be reformed, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 because the way we measure what's valuable now 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 ignores so-called negative externalities 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 like pollution. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 It also ignores positive externalities 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 like investments in education and health care, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 mental health care, family services. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 It ignores the depletion of resources like groundwater and topsoil 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and the web of living species. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And it ignores the distribution of incomes and net worth, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 so when GDP goes up, people cheer, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 two percent, three percent, wow, four percent, and they think, great. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 But it's accompanied by vast increases in pollution, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 chronic underinvestment in public goods, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 the depletion of irreplaceable natural resources, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and the worst inequality crisis we've seen in more than a hundred years 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that is threatening the future of both capitalism and democracy. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So we have to change it. We have to reform it. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 CA: So reform capitalism, but don't throw it out. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 We're going to need it as a tool as we go forward 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 if we're to solve this. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 AG: Yeah, I think that's right, and just one other point: 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 the worst environmental abuses in the last hundred years 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 have been in jurisdictions that experimented during the 20th century 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 with the alternatives to capitalism on the left and right. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 CA: Interesting. All right. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Two last community questions quickly. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Chadburn Blomquist: 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 "As you are reading the tea leaves of the impact of the current pandemic, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 what do you think in regard to our response to combatting climate change 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 will be the most impactful lesson learned?" NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 AG: Boy, that's a very thoughtful question, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and I wish my answer could rise to the same level on short notice. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I would say first, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 don't ignore the scientists. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 When there is virtual unanimity 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 among the scientific and medical experts, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 pay attention. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Don't let some politician dissuade you. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I think President Trump is slowly learning 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that's it's kind of difficult to gaslight a virus. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 He tried to gaslight the virus in Tulsa. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 It didn't come off very well, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and tragically he decided to recklessly roll the dice a month ago 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and ignore the recommendations for people to wear masks 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and to socially distance 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and to do the other things, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and I think that lesson 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 is beginning to take hold in a much stronger way. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 But beyond that, Chris, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I think that this period of time 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 has been characterized 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 by one of the most profound opportunities 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 for people to rethink the patterns of their lives 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and to consider whether or not we can't do a lot of things better 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and differently. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And I think that this rising generation I mentioned before 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 has been even more profoundly affected 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 by this interlude, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 which I hope ends soon, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 but I hope the lessons endure. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I expect they will. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 CA: Yeah, it's amazing how many things 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 you can do without emitting carbon, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that we've been forced to do. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Let's have one more question here. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Frank Hennessy: "Are you encouraged by the ability of people 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to quickly adapt to the new normal due to COVID-19 as evidence that people 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 can and will change their habits to respond to climate change? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 AG: Yes, but I think we have to keep in mind 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that there is a crisis within this crisis. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 The impact on the African American community, which I mentioned before, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 on the Latinx community, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Indigenous peoples. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 The highest infection rate is in the Navajo Nation right now. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So some of these questions 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 appear differently to those who are really getting the brunt 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 of this crisis, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and it is unacceptable 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that we allow this to continue. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 It feels one way to you and me, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and perhaps to many in our audience today, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 but for low-income communities of color 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 it's an entirely different crisis, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and we owe it to them 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and to all of us 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to get busy and to start using the best science 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and solve this pandemic. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 You know the phrase "pandemic economics." 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Somebody said, the first principle of pandemic economics 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 is take care of the pandemic, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and we're not doing that yet. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 We're seeing the president try to goose the economy 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 or his reelection, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 never mind the prediction 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 of tens of thousands of additional American deaths, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and that is just unforgivable in my opinion. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 CA: Thank you, Frank. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 So Al, you along with others in the community 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 had a key role in encouraging TED 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to launch this initiative called Countdown. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Thank you for that, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and I guess this conversation is continuing among many of us. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 If you're interested in climate, watching this, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 check out the Countdown website, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 countdown.ted.com, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and be part of 10/10/2020, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 when are trying 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to put out an alert to the world 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that climate can't wait, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that it really matters, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and there's going to be some amazing content 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 free to the world on that day. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Thank you, Al, for your inspiration and support in doing that. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I wonder whether you could end today's session 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 just by painting us a picture, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 how might things roll out over the next decade or so? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Just tell us whether there is still a story of hope here? NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 AG: I'd be glad to. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I've got to get one plug in. I'll make it brief. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 July 18 through July 26, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 the Climate Reality Project 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 is having a global training. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 We've already had 8,000 people register. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 You can go to climatereality.com. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Now, a bright future. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 It begins with all of the kinds of efforts 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 that you've thrown yourself into in organizing Countdown. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Chris, you and your team have been amazing 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to work with, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and I'm so excited about the Countdown project. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 TED has an unparalleled ability 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to spread ideas that are worth spreading, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to raise consciousness, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to enlighten people around the world, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and it's needed for climate and the solutions to the climate crisis 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 like it's never been needed before, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and I just want to thank you for what you personally are doing 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 to organize this fantastic Countdown program. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 CA: Thank you. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 And the world? Are we going to do this? 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Do you think that humanity is going to pull this off 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and that our grandchildren 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 are going to have beautiful lives 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 where they can celebrate nature and not spend every day 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 in fear of the next tornado or tsunami? NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 AG: I am optimistic that we will do it, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 but the answer is in our hands. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 We have seen dark times 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 in periods of the past, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and we have risen to meet the challenge. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 We have limitations of our long evolutionary heritage 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and elements of our culture, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 but we also have the ability to transcend our limitations, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and when the chips are down, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and when survival is at stake 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and when our children and future generations are at stake, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 we're capable of more than we sometimes allow ourselves to think we can do. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 This is such a time. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I believe we will rise to the occasion, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and we will create a bright, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 clean, prosperous, just and fair future. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 I believe it with all my heart. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 CA: Al Gore, thank you for your life of work, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 for all you've done to elevate this issue, 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 and for spending this time with us now. 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 Thank you. NOTE Paragraph 99:59:59.999 --> 99:59:59.999 AG: Back at you. Thank you.