WEBVTT
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36C3 preroll music
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Herald: Our next speaker Régine Debatty
will help you and explain you the Internet
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of rubbish, things and bodies and
basically everything around e-waste. Thank
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you very much and welcome. applause
Régine Debatty: Can I get ... can I get
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less light to my face?
Herald: Slide in your face?
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RD: Less light to my face.
Herald: Slide?
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RD: Light. Can I get less
light in my face?
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Herald: OK. A little bit less light for
the speaker.
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RD: Yeah. Hello. Good evening, everyone.
First of all, I want to say thank you to
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Nora, to Gregor and to everybody, at the
Chaos Communication Congress for welcoming
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me again this year. So I've been tasked
with the mission, just like in 2018, to
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present to you some of the most
interesting and exciting works in art and
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technology of this past year. And just
like last year, I kind of went on my own
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way and went on a tangent and started
adopting a tunnel vision. And for some
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reason I realized I was obsessed with
e-waste. So you're going to hear a lot
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about e-waste and nuclear waste in the
coming hour. But still, I promise it's
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still going to be reasonably interesting,
hopefully. And most of the projects are
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anyway from 2019. So why did I get
interested and why did I think it would be
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a good idea to talk to you about e-waste?
First of all, there was the the theme of
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this year's Congress "Resource
Exhaustion". I just decided to put some
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more, let's say, ecological twist on it.
And then the second reason why I wanted to
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talk about e-waste is that a couple of
months ago, I went to see an exhibition of
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a Swiss photographer who has spent four
years, something like that, traveling
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around the world and trying to understand
why transhumanists wanted to change and so
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called augment and improve their body. And
so he documented everything he found and
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how humans nowadays are changing their
bodies, either to go from disable body to
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able body or from able body to superable
body. And one way you can augment your
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body is, you know, is with RFID chip that
you can implant and that allows you to get
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access to offices, open your car door or
even pay for public transport. And I've
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been told recently that RFID chips are the
new tattoo. And then you can also get
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magnets implanted underneath your finger
that allows you to sense electromagnetic
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fields. And actually, the first time I
heard about this, I was at least 10 years
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ago, it was one of the first Chaos
Communication Congress I attended in good
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old Berlin. And there was this this
journalist called Queen Nocturne. And she
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came to explain that she had just had a
magnet implanted and explained that the
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new experience and how she felt magnetic
fields. Anyway, I could multiply the
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example. But of course, the people who are
really at the cutting edge of body
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improvement and augmentation are the
Transhumanists. This is one of them, Igor
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Trapeznikov is part of the Russian
Transhumanists Community. He had a number
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of implants, you know, the usual RFID
chips, but also a device that turns its
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sights into sound, which is usually useful
for people who have a vision problem or
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who are blind. And then, of course, they
are addition to the body or correction of
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the body that are there for to a
particular reason. That's how some find
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themselves with bits of titanium in the
knee or in the shoulder. And they use this
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kind of screw. I think that's one of the
images in the series that I found the most
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impressive, the idea that when I get
older, I might get these kind of screws
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inside my body. Pacemaker, of course. And
what makes pacemaker interesting is that
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it was one of the first electronic devices
that found its way inside our bodies. So
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it became kind of emblematic of the coming
mechanization of the human body. And then,
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of course, there are the other devices that
communicate with electronics that you
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insert in the body and that communicate
with phones and computers. So that's why
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so much talking about the Internet of
Bodies, you know, after the Internet of
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Things, there ist the Internet of Bodies.
So this is a bio artificial pancreas for
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people who suffer from Diabetes Type 1.
There are so many smart devices that can
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be added on your body or inside your body.
I've heard about smart contact lenses and
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also smart prosthetics. And after seeing
this exhibition, I started looking at
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people around me with a different eye. I
am wondering who else had bits of metals
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and electricity and electronics inside
their body. So that's where my obsession
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with with e-waste came because my
immediate question after this is what
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happens after you died? What happens to
that? I don't know if you're interested,
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but I had to do some research. So if you
are buried the traditional way, you buried
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with with all your gadgets and gizmos and
anything orthopedic. If you're cremated,
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you're not cremated with your pacemaker
because it contains batteries that could
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explode. And then I learn about the new
very interesting service. I mean, to me,
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it sounded quite interesting. It is that
when you are cremated, of course, the
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titanium or any metal, they do not burn.
There is this company who retrieves all
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the metal that is found among the ashes.
There's just a couple of companies around
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the world who do that. They just recover
all the metals, they divide them according
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to the types of metal. And then they melt
them down into ingots, which they sell to
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the medical industry, but also to the Car
Industry and the Aeronautical Industry. So
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that means that parts of these bodies are
going to become part of a car or a plane
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one day. And I also started imagining that
probably in the future, archeologists will
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find skeletons with e-waste. We will be
buried simply with our e-waste. They will
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find bits of metals in the shape of bones
and then the rusty electronics. So that's
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really what set me on the path of starting
to see e-waste absolutely everywhere. I
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never miss an opportunity to show my dog
because I realized that he has an RFID
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chip and apparently all pets are buried
with them. Anyway splendid animal. So
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since I'm thinking about e-waste it's
difficult not to mention one of the icons
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of e-waste. It's Agbogbloshie. I'm sure
you've seen the picture. I'm going to show
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images, but I'm not going to tell you the
whole story because I'm sure you've seen
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all these images. It's located in Accra,
the capital of Ghana. And that's where
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full containers of electric and electronic
trash end up. And the press really like to
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talk about it and say "Oh, this is where
your data and your your devices go to
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die." It's a huge place. And you've seen
the images of these young people who spend
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the whole day dissecting your devices and
trying to separate different types of
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precious metals such as aluminum, silver,
copper, etc.. Of course, they're working
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in terrible condition. It's very toxic to
work there. They all suffer from terrible
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headaches, difficulty sleeping problem,
respiratory problem, untreated wounds,
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etc. But it's really usually the way the
press is depicting what's happening and
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what the press is really not depicting
the full story and that there are bits and
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pieces missing in the narratives. First of
all, I think we are not conscious enough
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of these people playing a really important
role for us because they retrieve metals
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and we have the feeling that metals are
everywhere. But on the surface and
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underneath the earth some of them are
going to be more and more difficult to
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retrieve. This year, UNESCO's declared the
year of the periodic table. And you can
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see on this periodic table that the dot
seen in red and orange are the types of
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elements that are going to be more and
more difficult to mine and to retrieve.
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And I like to show these graphics a bit.
It is all not very precise, but it shows
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the trend. So if ever you have a child or
brother was born in 2010, by the time your
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child or your brother or your sister is
20, there will be no antimony, no lead
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left to mine. Very little indium, very
little zinc, very little silver, almost no
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gold. These elements will still be there,
but it's just going to cost more and more
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energy and more and more money to retrieve
them. So that's why you have this project
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of mining very deep into the ocean or even
mining asteroids for the same kind of
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metals that we need. And I think it was so
that we kind of have a blind spot for
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metals. We forget. We take them for
granted. And when we think about the
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challenges of the environment, we tend to
focus on energy. And energy is important.
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But when you think about renewable energy,
we have the feeling it's zero emission,
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but it still has a big impact on the
environment. And I like to talk about
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these solar thermal plant. It's a famous
one. It's a very, very big one. It's in in
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Southern California. As you can see, it's
vast and actually, when it was built
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conservation biologist were very concerned
because essentially it was built on a
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really environmentally intact desert
habitat for a number of animals which were
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in danger, such as tortoise that had to be
moved by hands and put on a truck and
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relocated elsewhere. Some of them died out
of stress. You might have heard that, too.
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So birds and bats by the thousands every
year, they did die because of the heat and
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the radiation. And also you see the
surface of the earth that this is
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occupying. It's really huge. And they
think it's not a coincidence if the
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opening sequence of the sequel of Blade
Runner 2049 starts with these seemingly
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endless landscape of solar panels that are
necessary to power modern life. As I said,
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I think we we don't perceive the
importance of materials and how many
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components extracted from the earth are
inside any object that surround us. So I'm
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going to show a couple of example of of
design work and artworks that try to make
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it visible, the elements that are inside
our electronics or electric objects. So
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the first one is by these designers Studio
Drift. They have a series where they
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decompose all kinds of objects. I'll show
a few of them. They can be bikes. They can
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be a mobile phone. In this case, it's an
iPhone model from 2010. It can be hovers.
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I'll show a few examples. They dissect
them and they analyzed the elements that
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compose them. And then they reconstruct
these elements in the form of these
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geometrical shape. I want to show a few of
them. So that was the iPhone. That's good
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old Nokia from 1999. When you see them in
an exhibition, they're really tiny. And I
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think we saw that some elements are simply
not represented. If you think about rare
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earths, some of them are presenting in
smartphone in really tiny quantities like
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less than half a gram. But I couldn't find
another image. But this is very big. So
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this is the representation of a Volkswagen
Beetle from 1980. And so that took a lot
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of space. And you see an element appear
that I was really not expecting, such as
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horse hair and also corc. This is an
electic cable. So, you know, a bit of
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copper and a lot of plastic for one meter.
That's my favorite, the Kalashnikov. You
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see the the bullets in the front. And when
I went to see the first time this
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exhibition and if I didn't look at the
label, I had no idea what was what, I
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could not recognize anything. So it shows
the level of ignorance of at least people
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like me. But that I could recognize - a
pencil. That I could manage. So that's the
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last one. That's a light bulb. That's one
way to visualize the elements that
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surround us. It's very designy, quite
elegant and charming. But I also like
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artists who adopt a more brutal strategy.
So Dani Ploeger also wanted to show the
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inside - well, that was one of his
objectives at least - to see the inside of
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electronic devices. So the first part of
his project started back in 2012 and 17 he
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infiltrated Phillips and got hired, as you
know, this guy. You see them at these
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consumer goods fairs that try to sell it,
to sell you gadgets and say what is going
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to change your life? And here is what this
can do. So he was he was hired to to sell
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a highly sophisticated shaver for men. And
the reason why he wanted to be there is if
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you wanted to understand exactly what were
the dynamics and the logic behind the
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constant rapid innovation behind our
electronics. So that was the first part.
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He got his hands on confidential material
that really explain how people at Philips
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have these teams - I say Philips but I'm
sure it's the same elsewhere, of course -
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they really analyze the different types of
consumer that we are and find the best way
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to to trick us and to lure us and seduce
us into buying new products. And then the
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second part of his project was this year
where he bought this machine. It's a
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machine that is called industrial stress
testing machine. So it's several of these
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machines, you can buy them. He bought this
one on Alibaba in China. And they're
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usually used by makers of whichever mobile
phone, whatever, and they simulate all
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kinds of accidents that can happen to your
device like you walking on it or dropping
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it. I'm going to show a video of this one.
video of machine in action is shown
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So that's our poor shaver inside. I like
the machine because, you know, it has a
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bit of a vintage feel inside. The object
that it tests are quite sophisticated and
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very, very much 21st century. But when you
see the the control panel, it seems to be
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stuck in the mid 20th century. It has
these kind of old design. Apparently it
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was a nightmare to get it shipped to to
Europe. It costs more to get it shipped
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than the machine itself. And if you're
like me and you could watch this video for
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hours of the arm rotating and breaking
things, and if you live in Leipzig, the
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machine is going to come to the Museum of
Fine Art in March as part of an exhibition
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called Zero Waste. So the reason why he
did this, like, obscene display of
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destruction of luxury goods was that you
had two reasons for doing that. First of
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all, the first reason was, is that usually
when we think about consumer culture and
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how we consume too much and throw away too
much and and waste and the onus usually is
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on the consumer. You know, the consumer is
wrong, and yeah, we are wrong. We buy too
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much. But then the wrong starts actually
much further upstream. It starts
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everywhere in the line of production and
especially in the design and research and
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development teams who engineer constantly
new ways to seduce us and to convince us
00:19:17.470 --> 00:19:25.050
that we have to update. And then another
reason why he did this project is that is
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that he wanted to to make a comment on
maker spaces, which, you know, are very
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interesting, but still feeding on this
vocabulary of entrepreneurship,
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innovation, progress. But they never
really, truly and deeply and and they
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don't really challenge in a systemic way
consumerism. So he saw this laboratory of
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electric electronic aging as a kind of
make up space for unmaking things. And
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also you get to see what's inside this
piece of electronic. But I would like to
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go back to Aghogbloshie again, because if
there are people who know very well what's
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inside our electronics and what they are
made of it's the workers of Aghogbloshie.
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And sometimes, you know, when we think
about this kind of place and I think the
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example of Aghogbloshie, but as I'm sure
you know, there are equal sites elsewhere
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in Africa, in Asia and Bangladesh et
cetera. We have the feeling that this is a
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big junkyard and that it's a kind of huge
mess and it's it's dark and it's dirty.
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But this is a map done by architects,
designers and activist who spent a lot of
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time in Aghogbloshie. And you probably
cannot read - well, you probably all have
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better eyes than me, but it's still
written very small - they map the
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activities in Aghogbloshie. And if you
read the map, you see that the there is a
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maker space, there are spaces dedicated to
disassembling, there are places to eat, to
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pray, to disassemble, to repair, to have
fun. And also, we have the feeling that,
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well, these are just people discarding and
dissecting our electronics. But actually,
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the way they work is very sophisticated
and very fine. So first of all, they get
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these huge containers, that with content,
pretty much anything we don't want that's
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electric or electronic, including entire
cars. And they divide them in streams. So
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this is a heap of photocopy machines. They
also can detect when something can't be
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repaired, but they also can detect which
part of the machine all the computer is
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still, which component can be saved and
reused to repair something else. So that
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also goes on another pile. I think they're
much better than us at differentiating
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different types of plastics. They have
places dedicated to weigh in the kind of
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metal that they retrieve. And I would say
that they're quite like you suddenly, not
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like me. So when I have a computer and it
doesn't work. I think for me, it's a black
00:22:28.280 --> 00:22:33.140
box. I'm never going to open it. But these
people, their job, their business is to
00:22:33.140 --> 00:22:38.810
open our old computers and better than
that. Most of them, like not most of them,
00:22:38.810 --> 00:22:43.750
but many of them, can repair and give them
a second life or really a new lease of
00:22:43.750 --> 00:22:51.070
life, which, you know, it's important
because we think all these objects are
00:22:51.070 --> 00:22:54.660
dead, but actually they give them a second
life and then, you know, they repair it.
00:22:54.660 --> 00:23:00.520
They repair them, they sell them to
communities around Aghogbloshie or in
00:23:00.520 --> 00:23:05.130
Ghana, or in neighboring countries to
people would otherwise not be able to
00:23:05.130 --> 00:23:11.821
afford a new printer or new TV or a
computer. And then, as you can see, they
00:23:11.821 --> 00:23:21.800
have places to have fun. And they, too,
are quite fans of the Premier League. So
00:23:21.800 --> 00:23:27.790
the map I was showing, just before. With
all the activities in Aghogbloshie has
00:23:27.790 --> 00:23:33.860
been made by architects and designers DK
Osseo-Asare and Yasmina Abbas. They spent
00:23:33.860 --> 00:23:39.360
a lot of time trying to understand how the
community was working. And they designed
00:23:39.360 --> 00:23:47.580
this kiosk with anything they could find
on the scrapyard. And it's a meeting place
00:23:47.580 --> 00:23:54.240
where they invite the community of
Aghogbloshie to meet people such as
00:23:54.240 --> 00:24:00.550
graduates or young students in science,
technology, engineering, math. And so the
00:24:00.550 --> 00:24:07.740
students and graduates who have very, very
theoretical vision on technology. And then
00:24:07.740 --> 00:24:13.730
they get to meet these people, who have
extremely sophisticated, very deep, know
00:24:13.730 --> 00:24:20.630
how. And together they exchange ideas and
they've developed ways, for example, you
00:24:20.630 --> 00:24:25.540
know, the traditional lead to to recover
the copper from the cable, they would burn
00:24:25.540 --> 00:24:30.660
the cable, the plastic, which is very
toxic and also damages the copper. So they
00:24:30.660 --> 00:24:36.540
find a way to recover the copper without
burning the plastic, which means that it's
00:24:36.540 --> 00:24:42.980
less toxic, it's safer, and they can sell
the copper for more money. So it's kind of
00:24:42.980 --> 00:24:50.650
a win-win. The aim was to develop together
new processes, new ways of working, new
00:24:50.650 --> 00:24:56.540
tools. They also have fun. So with bits
and pieces, they found on the scrap yard a
00:24:56.540 --> 00:25:02.150
couple of years ago they made these drones
that flew over the junkyard. So it's a
00:25:02.150 --> 00:25:10.740
project I like a lot because it pays
hommage to the kind of work that doesn't
00:25:10.740 --> 00:25:15.230
get a lot of recognition. But that's
really important, you know, when you think
00:25:15.230 --> 00:25:22.110
of, as I said, the metals we are using to
make our electronics and also even the
00:25:22.110 --> 00:25:28.890
solar panels and and the wind turbine et
cetera, and all our renewable energy they
00:25:28.890 --> 00:25:35.850
also rely on the same metals that are
disappearing, at least are becoming less
00:25:35.850 --> 00:25:39.590
available. So that's one of the reasons I
really like this project. And also, it
00:25:39.590 --> 00:25:46.530
reminded me of this performance from
already forty years ago by Mierle Laderman
00:25:46.530 --> 00:25:54.230
Ukeles. She kind of decided she would be
an artist in residency at the New York
00:25:54.230 --> 00:26:00.420
Department of Sanitation. So that's the
people who collect the trash. So she spent
00:26:00.420 --> 00:26:05.980
a year with them everyday. She was there
at six in the morning and she followed
00:26:05.980 --> 00:26:10.720
them and she did, she had this gesture of
she wanted to meet every single one of
00:26:10.720 --> 00:26:16.140
them. There were 8500 employees. So she
she wanted to shake them with them and
00:26:16.140 --> 00:26:21.060
say, thank you for keeping New York City
alive. Which I think is a lovely gesture,
00:26:21.060 --> 00:26:25.959
because suddenly this anonymous mass of
bin men you realize that there are
00:26:25.959 --> 00:26:33.580
individuals. And yeah, she documented and
talked with them. It's a way to bring
00:26:33.580 --> 00:26:39.549
attention to a profession that we don't
value a lot. And also, she wanted by
00:26:39.549 --> 00:26:44.630
spending so much time among them to make
people realize that the work of these
00:26:44.630 --> 00:26:50.559
people should be valued at least as much
as her own as an artist because of the
00:26:50.559 --> 00:26:58.500
role they play for the collective society.
Yeah. Okay. I see. Still Agbogbloshie
00:26:58.500 --> 00:27:04.500
but if I had time I would talk about other
projects in Africa. This one's a startup.
00:27:04.500 --> 00:27:10.059
African born 3D that makes 3D printers
that at least a third of the components
00:27:10.059 --> 00:27:20.930
come are found in second hand on second
hand, in discarded electronic let's say.
00:27:20.930 --> 00:27:26.320
And I think what this show is, is a kind
of mindset and an attitude that should
00:27:26.320 --> 00:27:32.000
inspire us. And it's going to show to show
you a few example of this attitude, I
00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:37.360
think is really important is is trying to
make the most of what you have instead of
00:27:37.360 --> 00:27:44.290
jumping on the next gadget and gizmo, but
really trying to to be as creative, as
00:27:44.290 --> 00:27:49.410
innovative as possible. So in India,
they have this movement called Jugaad,
00:27:49.410 --> 00:27:56.870
where even in the West we
translate it as frugal innovation. So this
00:27:56.870 --> 00:28:03.420
is. Oh yeah. You needed. You had only a
motorcycle. You need a ploughing machine
00:28:03.420 --> 00:28:11.260
for his land. So you adapted. The the the
is motorcycle. And you turn it into a kind
00:28:11.260 --> 00:28:28.550
of.
sudden silence
00:28:28.550 --> 00:28:34.870
RD: I can take a traveling mic
Audio technician: Dead battery.
00:28:34.870 --> 00:28:41.230
RD: So I should keep ... watch out for my
hair, yeah.
00:28:41.230 --> 00:28:47.191
Herald: In the meantime, the question. You
know it. Oh, no. I think the meantime is
00:28:47.191 --> 00:28:53.440
over. No. So, uh, you know the question.
And you know the case 6-2-1. Someone? No?
00:28:53.440 --> 00:29:02.660
So six hours of sleep a day. Two meals?
No. Oh, boring. Anyways, to remember it:
00:29:02.660 --> 00:29:09.040
six hours of sleep, two meals a day and
one shower, please remember. And, uh, to
00:29:09.040 --> 00:29:14.140
make some minor announcements, don't
forget the trash. Do we have audio back?
00:29:14.140 --> 00:29:17.540
RD: I think so.
Herald: Perfect. Then, please.
00:29:17.540 --> 00:29:26.500
RD: I can't believe you told people
to wash. Yeah. Yeah. This is answering
00:29:26.500 --> 00:29:32.350
precise need instead of creating demand.
And sometimes, you know, it respond to a
00:29:32.350 --> 00:29:40.520
specific problem. Sometimes it can be
scaled up. So this Indian inventor made a
00:29:40.520 --> 00:29:46.809
fridge that doesn't use electricity, but
uses evaporation to to keep the food cool
00:29:46.809 --> 00:29:51.250
simply because there are people who live
in a rural areas who don't necessarily can
00:29:51.250 --> 00:29:58.100
afford a fridge or don't have continuous
access to electricity. And of course, the
00:29:58.100 --> 00:30:02.370
best example and the most famous example
of Jugaad, is the Indian
00:30:02.370 --> 00:30:12.710
space mission. Since 2014 India has is a
probe orbiting Mars and the Indian
00:30:12.710 --> 00:30:18.610
engineers, and pretty much everybody in
India jokes about the fact that it costs
00:30:18.610 --> 00:30:23.549
less money for them, that the space
mission cost less money than than your
00:30:23.549 --> 00:30:31.160
average Hollywood blockbuster about space.
And, you know, it's not about making
00:30:31.160 --> 00:30:42.510
things cheap. It's about reinventing
process, of designing, of manufacturing
00:30:42.510 --> 00:30:48.070
and of distributing. Okay. I don't have
that much time. So I'm going to skip a few
00:30:48.070 --> 00:30:56.700
things. Yes. So I've been to India,
Africa. Let's get back to to Asia, because
00:30:56.700 --> 00:31:01.880
I really like this project. Say it's a
project by an artist who also saw images
00:31:01.880 --> 00:31:06.799
from Agbogbloshien similar a
junkyards. And so he was interested in
00:31:06.799 --> 00:31:11.700
e-waste as well. He found himself in
Taiwan and he found this really cutting
00:31:11.700 --> 00:31:18.260
edge company that deals with e-waste no
one wants. So usually when you find a
00:31:18.260 --> 00:31:25.260
company that deals with recycling midsize,
usually they focus on the nice metals, the
00:31:25.260 --> 00:31:30.569
ones that are valuable like in a copper,
for example. And then you have pieces of
00:31:30.569 --> 00:31:39.250
electronic waste that no one wants, such
as a I don't know the one that contains
00:31:39.250 --> 00:31:47.610
lead or CRT monitors or glass fiber from
printed electronic boards. This kind of
00:31:47.610 --> 00:31:51.480
thing that really no one knows what to do
with it. Well, they found a way. So the
00:31:51.480 --> 00:31:59.650
company is called Super Dragon
Technology. And the trick they found is
00:31:59.650 --> 00:32:05.660
that they just take all these bits and
pieces of waste that no one wants and they
00:32:05.660 --> 00:32:09.970
crush them into a powder, they mix them
with epoxy and they make these splendid
00:32:09.970 --> 00:32:15.759
objects out of them. And because I think
they're quite crafty, they can imitate
00:32:15.759 --> 00:32:21.570
very well the appearance of bronze, of
marble, of porcelain, you know, very noble
00:32:21.570 --> 00:32:27.520
material. And also they play with the
proportion of epoxy and this toxic powder
00:32:27.520 --> 00:32:32.110
to make it so like feel like it's very
heavy if it's supposed to imitate bronze,
00:32:32.110 --> 00:32:37.500
etc. And so they're decorative objects
with the particularity that they contain a
00:32:37.500 --> 00:32:41.460
lot of lead. So you're not supposed to
manipulate them too much might be
00:32:41.460 --> 00:32:47.230
dangerous. They also have in common that
they have a very peculiar esthetic. As you
00:32:47.230 --> 00:32:54.250
can see, this is a trophy. And then have
these these wonderful little thing where
00:32:54.250 --> 00:33:00.970
they actually they make fake rocks, which
looks absolutely eccentric and crazy. But
00:33:00.970 --> 00:33:05.890
the story is that these are not just any
type of rocks. They're supposed to be
00:33:05.890 --> 00:33:14.450
scholar stone. So during the tense 11th
and 12th century in China, there was the
00:33:14.450 --> 00:33:21.710
dispassion for the so-called scholar stone
where an intellectual from China would go
00:33:21.710 --> 00:33:25.360
in the countryside and admire the
landscape. And suddenly they would find
00:33:25.360 --> 00:33:29.860
these rocks that were seemed to be
sculpted by the elements that had really
00:33:29.860 --> 00:33:35.230
strange and interesting shapes. And they
thought it was the manifestation of the
00:33:35.230 --> 00:33:40.610
creativity of nature. And so they would
bring them back and use them to
00:33:40.610 --> 00:33:44.700
contemplate and meditate. And, you know,
now nowadays you can you can still buy
00:33:44.700 --> 00:33:51.731
some of these scholar stones in auction.
They're quite valuable. But what I really,
00:33:51.731 --> 00:33:58.679
really like is that these superb dragon
technology is the way they think. So they
00:33:58.679 --> 00:34:04.360
can figure out that there's a difference
between applied art that makes you do
00:34:04.360 --> 00:34:10.710
useful things like plates and furniture
and then fine art that makes basically
00:34:10.710 --> 00:34:16.649
useless things and sees the ways no one
wants is useless. Well, that kinds of
00:34:16.649 --> 00:34:21.800
fits with the requirement to make fine
art. So this way all these objects have
00:34:21.800 --> 00:34:25.819
been shown showing to you. They call them
green art and they have a green art
00:34:25.819 --> 00:34:30.310
gallery, and appearantly it's quite
successful. Tyler Coburn bought some of
00:34:30.310 --> 00:34:36.919
these stones and actually accompanies them
with a text. So I know your narrative
00:34:36.919 --> 00:34:41.840
where you have the story of one single
grain of sand that tells its many stories
00:34:41.840 --> 00:34:47.210
how it started as a sand and then became
became a piece of electronics and then a
00:34:47.210 --> 00:34:54.759
piece of trash and then and then ended its
life as art. Found it very charming. I
00:34:54.759 --> 00:35:01.850
don't have time for this. Yes. Very
quickly. I mean, I'm famous for giving
00:35:01.850 --> 00:35:06.750
very depressing talks. So now I'm trying
to insert a little bit of happiness in my
00:35:06.750 --> 00:35:12.860
talks. Things are changing a bit. That's
why you have now repair cafes that are
00:35:12.860 --> 00:35:16.990
quite successful, yet there are also shops
you can find where the people working
00:35:16.990 --> 00:35:21.300
there and absolutely not affiliated with
with Apple, Samsung and Nokia. But they
00:35:21.300 --> 00:35:26.099
found a way to give a second life to your
objects and repair them. So and usually
00:35:26.099 --> 00:35:31.490
they are much nicer than the guys at the
Genius Bar. If you've ever had to deal
00:35:31.490 --> 00:35:38.599
with them. There are more and more Web
sites that sell secondhand goods that have
00:35:38.599 --> 00:35:42.950
that even come with a one year warranty.
You've heard about the fairphone, of
00:35:42.950 --> 00:35:50.320
course. And then brings me quite abruptly
to the other type of waste I wanted to
00:35:50.320 --> 00:35:55.010
talk about, which is nuclear waste. I
thought I saw that I needed to talk about
00:35:55.010 --> 00:35:59.380
nuclear waste because because it's waste,
because it's energy. And so it's very
00:35:59.380 --> 00:36:06.420
technological and extremely problematic.
So what do you do when you have your
00:36:06.420 --> 00:36:12.400
country and you have a lot of nuclear
waste? I mean, the most toxic can be toxic
00:36:12.400 --> 00:36:19.500
for 100.000 years, up to a million years.
It's going to be very, very dangerous. You
00:36:19.500 --> 00:36:25.390
have two choices. Either you keep it at
hand like buried, but not too deep so that
00:36:25.390 --> 00:36:30.341
you hope that in the near future someone
will have a brilliant idea and be able to
00:36:30.341 --> 00:36:36.090
we'll know what to do with it and how to
handle it safely. Or else you do like they
00:36:36.090 --> 00:36:40.180
are doing in in Finland and in other
countries. And France is thinking about
00:36:40.180 --> 00:36:47.950
that. You bury them very, very deep under
the ground in deep geological repository.
00:36:47.950 --> 00:36:53.010
But then you have a problem because it's
going to be to be dangerous for thousands
00:36:53.010 --> 00:37:00.430
of years. So how do you inform people,
like a future generation that it's dangerous
00:37:00.430 --> 00:37:07.890
and they shouldn't go nearby. Either you
use text, but then languages change,
00:37:07.890 --> 00:37:11.599
languages disappear. I mean, we might
think that, oh, everybody speaks English,
00:37:11.599 --> 00:37:17.651
but everybody used to speak a bit of
Latin. And now if you are confronted with
00:37:17.651 --> 00:37:23.240
the text of Latin, you might not find it
easy to understand, even if your mother
00:37:23.240 --> 00:37:28.640
language is English. Dealing with with an
English text from the middle age is going
00:37:28.640 --> 00:37:32.200
to be difficult. I speak French dealing
with the with a French text from the
00:37:32.200 --> 00:37:39.390
middle age is difficult. So how about
having some nice icons such as the skull
00:37:39.390 --> 00:37:43.460
and crossbones like everybody, you would
think that everybody associated with
00:37:43.460 --> 00:37:49.990
toxicity. Absolutely not. It's quite it's
quite new. It's only since the 1800 that
00:37:49.990 --> 00:37:54.400
the skull and crossbones have been
associated with toxicity. In the middle
00:37:54.400 --> 00:38:00.280
age Christians when they saw Skull and
Bones they tought of renewal and
00:38:00.280 --> 00:38:07.560
resirection. And I guess if you show the
children the skull and crossbones there,
00:38:07.560 --> 00:38:12.140
they they're not going to see toxicity.
They are going to say, oh, cool, pirate's
00:38:12.140 --> 00:38:17.910
Treasure Island. So you see, that's
tricky. Yeah, the symbols. So I am going
00:38:17.910 --> 00:38:22.710
to show a couple of ideas that
semioticians and artists and philosophers
00:38:22.710 --> 00:38:30.230
and thinkers have thought about to deal
with how to signal to very, very distant
00:38:30.230 --> 00:38:33.760
generations that there is something
special there and you shouldn't go near
00:38:33.760 --> 00:38:40.900
it. Oh yeah. Okay, I forgot this one. Even
if you found a suitable message, let's say
00:38:40.900 --> 00:38:44.510
you found a suitable message. You also
have to make sure that people would take
00:38:44.510 --> 00:38:51.750
it seriously. The thing, the coastline off
of Japan, there are these so-called
00:38:51.750 --> 00:38:56.170
tsunami stones that basically say, please
don't build beyond this point because it's
00:38:56.170 --> 00:38:59.690
very dangerous. There's been a tsunami.
They will come back one day and no one
00:38:59.690 --> 00:39:07.270
paid attention. Anyway, let's go back to
my artist and semioticians idea. So in the
00:39:07.270 --> 00:39:14.200
early 80s, a semiotician had the idea of,
you know, to preserve the memory of the
00:39:14.200 --> 00:39:20.170
presence of a very toxic, very dangerous
nuclear waste, you have to make it part of
00:39:20.170 --> 00:39:25.310
society to include it in the fabric of
society. So, he suggested the creation of
00:39:25.310 --> 00:39:31.590
an atomic priesthood. So that would be a
religious order that would have as its
00:39:31.590 --> 00:39:37.740
mission to keep the memory of the danger
alive, using rituals and myths and
00:39:37.740 --> 00:39:44.840
folklore. Some artists thought, well, we
should plan the forest like a forest of
00:39:44.840 --> 00:39:50.920
genetically modified trees on top of one
of those repositories, so that in the
00:39:50.920 --> 00:39:55.450
autumn the leaves would bloom and become
blue and that they would fall and that
00:39:55.450 --> 00:40:01.750
there would be a nice blue carpet. And
people like in thousands of years would
00:40:01.750 --> 00:40:05.160
interpret it as: oh this is a secret
place, we should leave it in peace and
00:40:05.160 --> 00:40:09.740
respect it. I really love this idea. I
find it a bit naive because, you know,
00:40:09.740 --> 00:40:15.609
human beings don't have a great track
record of respecting beautiful pieces of
00:40:15.609 --> 00:40:21.590
landscape. So, yeah, I'm not very
optimistic. Yeah, and then there is this
00:40:21.590 --> 00:40:30.780
kind of cynical idea of modifying a cat so
that the cat would stop glowing or
00:40:30.780 --> 00:40:36.070
changing the color of its fur in the
presence of high red. Oh, 20 minutes
00:40:36.070 --> 00:40:43.470
again. Keep adding time. But I'm almost
done anyway. So that would be a cat that
00:40:43.470 --> 00:40:49.340
changes color or glow in the presence of
radioactivity. This is not one of those
00:40:49.340 --> 00:40:59.200
cats this is an artistic interpretation of
Marcel Rickli. So yeah, I think it's not
00:40:59.200 --> 00:41:10.660
very nice. To be honest with you, I like
all those ideas of trying to transmit and
00:41:10.660 --> 00:41:17.021
connect with very, very distant time and
with people who are living in moments, in
00:41:17.021 --> 00:41:23.390
times we cannot even comprehend and
imagine. But I'm not totally convinced.
00:41:23.390 --> 00:41:27.670
And I mean, they're charming, but I don't
think they would stand the test of deep
00:41:27.670 --> 00:41:34.680
time, mostly because it just that the
periods we're talking about, like even
00:41:34.680 --> 00:41:40.720
100.000 years, it goes beyond human
experience. How do you relate to it? It's
00:41:40.720 --> 00:41:46.860
just so far away that it becomes abstract
and almost unreal. So I've been thinking,
00:41:46.860 --> 00:41:50.260
you know, about this project. I've been
interested in nuclear waste for quite a
00:41:50.260 --> 00:41:56.930
few years now. So I've been thinking other
projects, artistic or others, that can
00:41:56.930 --> 00:42:03.570
relate to, like physically or emotionally,
with very, very distant past, but in the
00:42:03.570 --> 00:42:06.960
distant times, but in the past, because we
don't know the future, we don't know what
00:42:06.960 --> 00:42:12.130
it's going to be like. But the past, we
kind of have an idea. I couldn't find any
00:42:12.130 --> 00:42:17.660
project that really, that I was convinced
could give a good experience, a good idea
00:42:17.660 --> 00:42:24.190
of relating to a distant time in the past.
Until last month, there was this big art
00:42:24.190 --> 00:42:33.000
fair in Turin and I found this butt plug
by a Swedish artist called Thomas Hämén.
00:42:33.000 --> 00:42:37.950
And the particularity of this butt plug is
that it's made of copper light. So it's
00:42:37.950 --> 00:42:46.130
basically dinosaur poo from around 140
million years ago. And that's where I
00:42:46.130 --> 00:42:53.380
discovered that there is actually a big
market for the incredible, for fossilized
00:42:53.380 --> 00:42:59.080
dinosaur excrements. You can buy it. I
checked. You can buy it on Amazon. I'm not
00:42:59.080 --> 00:43:03.730
sure it's going to be an authentic, but
it's available on Amazon. So I thought,
00:43:03.730 --> 00:43:08.490
yeah, that's it. I mean, if you were to
buy it and use it, you would actually be
00:43:08.490 --> 00:43:15.090
in close connection with a living creature
that, I mean, in intimate contact, I could
00:43:15.090 --> 00:43:24.330
say, with a creature that lived at a very,
very distant time. Okay. So, we are almost
00:43:24.330 --> 00:43:30.200
at the end. I have three lines of
conclusion that I'm going to read. But
00:43:30.200 --> 00:43:37.590
then I want to show you a film. And my
conclusion would be that all of this is
00:43:37.590 --> 00:43:43.670
very fanciful, especially the end. But it
might still be useful to keep in mind that
00:43:43.670 --> 00:43:50.020
something like renewable energy that keeps
us so, so passionate, is very often viewed
00:43:50.020 --> 00:43:55.330
as a long term solution to the climate
emergency. But unfortunately, renewable
00:43:55.330 --> 00:44:01.350
energy relies on physical resources that
are neither infinite nor renewable. And
00:44:01.350 --> 00:44:05.859
right now, it looks like we are busy
implementing a future that was dreamt and
00:44:05.859 --> 00:44:12.450
conceived a few decades ago. At a time
when society wasn't worried about
00:44:12.450 --> 00:44:20.450
exploding climate crises, the erasure of
wildlife and growing material scarcity
00:44:20.450 --> 00:44:27.369
accompanied by an unmanageable heaps of
waste. Anyway, I've just been talking
00:44:27.369 --> 00:44:36.180
about the future and I would like to end
with a short movie set in the future by
00:44:36.180 --> 00:44:45.630
Alexandra Lupashko, who is a young Russian
filmmaker. And I really wanted to show it
00:44:45.630 --> 00:44:51.170
to you for several reasons. One of them is
that when I knew I would come back, my
00:44:51.170 --> 00:44:55.280
first thought is that, yes, I'm going to
be able to show 2050, because I really
00:44:55.280 --> 00:44:58.900
love it. And the second reason is that I
really didn't want to finish my
00:44:58.900 --> 00:45:05.120
presentation with a butt plug.
laughter
00:45:11.980 --> 00:45:35.110
(Video starts playing)
Music
00:45:53.270 --> 00:46:06.305
Music
00:47:11.476 --> 00:47:21.100
loud heartbeet
00:47:59.285 --> 00:48:02.880
laughter in the audience
00:48:04.935 --> 00:48:06.915
sound of a shot
00:48:09.507 --> 00:48:14.937
applause
00:48:14.937 --> 00:48:33.720
music
00:48:51.360 --> 00:49:04.180
Yeah.. applause
Yeah. I forget to say it had nothing to do
00:49:04.180 --> 00:49:11.100
with waste, but it was just irresistible,
I had to show it to you. Okay, that's it
00:49:11.100 --> 00:49:17.459
for me. Unless you have questions.
Herald: Thank you very much, Régine
00:49:17.459 --> 00:49:30.450
Débatty. applause As usual, if you have
questions, we have microphones over there
00:49:30.450 --> 00:49:35.860
and microphones over there. Please stand
in line. And of course, we have questions
00:49:35.860 --> 00:49:43.250
from the Internet. OK. In the meantime,
small thing. If you want to read, know
00:49:43.250 --> 00:49:48.510
about.... Sorry, if you want to read more
about Régine. She writes also on a
00:49:48.510 --> 00:49:51.810
website. It's called "We Make Money, not
Art dot com"
00:49:51.810 --> 00:49:55.390
[https://we-make-money-not-art.com].
Which is, at least if I am concerned, a
00:49:55.390 --> 00:50:01.420
brilliant title. And you write about what?
Régine: I've been writing, I mean, I think
00:50:01.420 --> 00:50:06.660
is for almost 16 years about the way
designers, artists and hackers are using
00:50:06.660 --> 00:50:11.970
science and technology in a creative but
more importantly socially engaged way. So
00:50:11.970 --> 00:50:17.790
it's quite political, I like to think.
Herald: Which suits perfectly to this to
00:50:17.790 --> 00:50:19.690
this event.
Régine: Yeah.
00:50:19.690 --> 00:50:27.810
Herald: So questions? I see none so far.
None so far. In this case, we can...
00:50:27.810 --> 00:50:31.579
Number four is this.
Microphone 4: Um.
00:50:31.579 --> 00:50:38.640
Herald: Now in this case ... I heard an,
um. No question. In this case, we can chat
00:50:38.640 --> 00:50:43.230
a little bit more about your website.
Régine: Okay
00:50:43.230 --> 00:50:46.099
Herald: So if you want. If you want.
Régine: Yeah. It's not going to interest
00:50:46.099 --> 00:50:48.099
people.
Herald: I'm pretty sure it does.
00:50:48.099 --> 00:50:50.400
Régine: Okay.
Herald: Because I had a quick look and it
00:50:50.400 --> 00:50:54.520
was pretty impressive. You write
about AI as far as I know.
00:50:54.520 --> 00:50:59.519
Régine: That's the thing. When I knew I
was coming to talk about the best of 2019.
00:50:59.519 --> 00:51:04.820
I was like, this year I've had to deal so
much with AI outside of my blog that I
00:51:04.820 --> 00:51:09.500
said "no more AI" except maybe for the
film at the end, that, you know, is a bit
00:51:09.500 --> 00:51:13.460
AI, but otherwise...
Herald. No AI?
00:51:13.460 --> 00:51:17.850
Régine: Yeah. On my blog, there's been a
lot of AI. Yeah. Yeah. I'm a bit sick of
00:51:17.850 --> 00:51:23.480
it. Actually, one of the last ... I wrote
about was by Julian Oliver who spoke just
00:51:23.480 --> 00:51:30.230
before me now. Yeah.
Herald: Cool. In this case, no more
00:51:30.230 --> 00:51:34.140
questions. Thank you very much.
Please, a warm applause for Jean.
00:51:34.140 --> 00:51:37.970
applause
00:51:37.970 --> 00:51:41.449
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