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36C3 preroll music
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Herald: Our next speaker Régine Debatty[br]will help you and explain you the Internet
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of rubbish, things and bodies and[br]basically everything around e-waste. Thank
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you very much and welcome. applause[br]Régine Debatty: Can I get ... can I get
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less light to my face?[br]Herald: Slide in your face?
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RD: Less light to my face.[br]Herald: Slide?
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RD: Light. Can I get less[br]light in my face?
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Herald: OK. A little bit less light for[br]the speaker.
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RD: Yeah. Hello. Good evening, everyone.[br]First of all, I want to say thank you to
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Nora, to Gregor and to everybody, at the[br]Chaos Communication Congress for welcoming
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me again this year. So I've been tasked[br]with the mission, just like in 2018, to
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present to you some of the most[br]interesting and exciting works in art and
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technology of this past year. And just[br]like last year, I kind of went on my own
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way and went on a tangent and started[br]adopting a tunnel vision. And for some
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reason I realized I was obsessed with[br]e-waste. So you're going to hear a lot
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about e-waste and nuclear waste in the[br]coming hour. But still, I promise it's
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still going to be reasonably interesting,[br]hopefully. And most of the projects are
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anyway from 2019. So why did I get[br]interested and why did I think it would be
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a good idea to talk to you about e-waste?[br]First of all, there was the the theme of
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this year's Congress "Resource[br]Exhaustion". I just decided to put some
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more, let's say, ecological twist on it.[br]And then the second reason why I wanted to
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talk about e-waste is that a couple of[br]months ago, I went to see an exhibition of
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a Swiss photographer who has spent four[br]years, something like that, traveling
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around the world and trying to understand[br]why transhumanists wanted to change and so
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called augment and improve their body. And[br]so he documented everything he found and
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how humans nowadays are changing their[br]bodies, either to go from disable body to
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able body or from able body to superable[br]body. And one way you can augment your
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body is, you know, is with RFID chip that[br]you can implant and that allows you to get
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access to offices, open your car door or[br]even pay for public transport. And I've
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been told recently that RFID chips are the[br]new tattoo. And then you can also get
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magnets implanted underneath your finger[br]that allows you to sense electromagnetic
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fields. And actually, the first time I[br]heard about this, I was at least 10 years
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ago, it was one of the first Chaos[br]Communication Congress I attended in good
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old Berlin. And there was this this[br]journalist called Queen Nocturne. And she
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came to explain that she had just had a[br]magnet implanted and explained that the
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new experience and how she felt magnetic[br]fields. Anyway, I could multiply the
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example. But of course, the people who are[br]really at the cutting edge of body
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improvement and augmentation are the[br]Transhumanists. This is one of them, Igor
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Trapeznikov is part of the Russian[br]Transhumanists Community. He had a number
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of implants, you know, the usual RFID[br]chips, but also a device that turns its
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sights into sound, which is usually useful[br]for people who have a vision problem or
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who are blind. And then, of course, they[br]are addition to the body or correction of
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the body that are there for to a[br]particular reason. That's how some find
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themselves with bits of titanium in the[br]knee or in the shoulder. And they use this
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kind of screw. I think that's one of the[br]images in the series that I found the most
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impressive, the idea that when I get[br]older, I might get these kind of screws
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inside my body. Pacemaker, of course. And[br]what makes pacemaker interesting is that
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it was one of the first electronic devices[br]that found its way inside our bodies. So
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it became kind of emblematic of the coming[br]mechanization of the human body. And then,
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of course, there are the other devices that[br]communicate with electronics that you
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insert in the body and that communicate[br]with phones and computers. So that's why
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so much talking about the Internet of[br]Bodies, you know, after the Internet of
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Things, there ist the Internet of Bodies.[br]So this is a bio artificial pancreas for
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people who suffer from Diabetes Type 1.[br]There are so many smart devices that can
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be added on your body or inside your body.[br]I've heard about smart contact lenses and
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also smart prosthetics. And after seeing[br]this exhibition, I started looking at
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people around me with a different eye. I[br]am wondering who else had bits of metals
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and electricity and electronics inside[br]their body. So that's where my obsession
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with with e-waste came because my[br]immediate question after this is what
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happens after you died? What happens to[br]that? I don't know if you're interested,
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but I had to do some research. So if you[br]are buried the traditional way, you buried
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with with all your gadgets and gizmos and[br]anything orthopedic. If you're cremated,
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you're not cremated with your pacemaker[br]because it contains batteries that could
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explode. And then I learn about the new[br]very interesting service. I mean, to me,
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it sounded quite interesting. It is that[br]when you are cremated, of course, the
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titanium or any metal, they do not burn.[br]There is this company who retrieves all
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the metal that is found among the ashes.[br]There's just a couple of companies around
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the world who do that. They just recover[br]all the metals, they divide them according
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to the types of metal. And then they melt[br]them down into ingots, which they sell to
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the medical industry, but also to the Car[br]Industry and the Aeronautical Industry. So
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that means that parts of these bodies are[br]going to become part of a car or a plane
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one day. And I also started imagining that[br]probably in the future, archeologists will
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find skeletons with e-waste. We will be[br]buried simply with our e-waste. They will
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find bits of metals in the shape of bones[br]and then the rusty electronics. So that's
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really what set me on the path of starting[br]to see e-waste absolutely everywhere. I
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never miss an opportunity to show my dog[br]because I realized that he has an RFID
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chip and apparently all pets are buried[br]with them. Anyway splendid animal. So
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since I'm thinking about e-waste it's[br]difficult not to mention one of the icons
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of e-waste. It's Agbogbloshie. I'm sure[br]you've seen the picture. I'm going to show
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images, but I'm not going to tell you the[br]whole story because I'm sure you've seen
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all these images. It's located in Accra,[br]the capital of Ghana. And that's where
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full containers of electric and electronic[br]trash end up. And the press really like to
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talk about it and say "Oh, this is where[br]your data and your your devices go to
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die." It's a huge place. And you've seen[br]the images of these young people who spend
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the whole day dissecting your devices and[br]trying to separate different types of
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precious metals such as aluminum, silver,[br]copper, etc.. Of course, they're working
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in terrible condition. It's very toxic to[br]work there. They all suffer from terrible
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headaches, difficulty sleeping problem,[br]respiratory problem, untreated wounds,
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etc. But it's really usually the way the[br]press is depicting what's happening and
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what the press is really not depicting[br]the full story and that there are bits and
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pieces missing in the narratives. First of[br]all, I think we are not conscious enough
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of these people playing a really important[br]role for us because they retrieve metals
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and we have the feeling that metals are[br]everywhere. But on the surface and
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underneath the earth some of them are[br]going to be more and more difficult to
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retrieve. This year, UNESCO's declared the[br]year of the periodic table. And you can
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see on this periodic table that the dot[br]seen in red and orange are the types of
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elements that are going to be more and[br]more difficult to mine and to retrieve.
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And I like to show these graphics a bit.[br]It is all not very precise, but it shows
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the trend. So if ever you have a child or[br]brother was born in 2010, by the time your
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child or your brother or your sister is[br]20, there will be no antimony, no lead
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left to mine. Very little indium, very[br]little zinc, very little silver, almost no
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gold. These elements will still be there,[br]but it's just going to cost more and more
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energy and more and more money to retrieve[br]them. So that's why you have this project
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of mining very deep into the ocean or even[br]mining asteroids for the same kind of
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metals that we need. And I think it was so[br]that we kind of have a blind spot for
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metals. We forget. We take them for[br]granted. And when we think about the
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challenges of the environment, we tend to[br]focus on energy. And energy is important.
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But when you think about renewable energy,[br]we have the feeling it's zero emission,
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but it still has a big impact on the[br]environment. And I like to talk about
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these solar thermal plant. It's a famous[br]one. It's a very, very big one. It's in in
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Southern California. As you can see, it's[br]vast and actually, when it was built
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conservation biologist were very concerned[br]because essentially it was built on a
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really environmentally intact desert[br]habitat for a number of animals which were
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in danger, such as tortoise that had to be[br]moved by hands and put on a truck and
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relocated elsewhere. Some of them died out[br]of stress. You might have heard that, too.
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So birds and bats by the thousands every[br]year, they did die because of the heat and
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the radiation. And also you see the[br]surface of the earth that this is
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occupying. It's really huge. And they[br]think it's not a coincidence if the
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opening sequence of the sequel of Blade[br]Runner 2049 starts with these seemingly
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endless landscape of solar panels that are[br]necessary to power modern life. As I said,
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I think we we don't perceive the[br]importance of materials and how many
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components extracted from the earth are[br]inside any object that surround us. So I'm
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going to show a couple of example of of[br]design work and artworks that try to make
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it visible, the elements that are inside[br]our electronics or electric objects. So
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the first one is by these designers Studio[br]Drift. They have a series where they
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decompose all kinds of objects. I'll show[br]a few of them. They can be bikes. They can
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be a mobile phone. In this case, it's an[br]iPhone model from 2010. It can be hovers.
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I'll show a few examples. They dissect[br]them and they analyzed the elements that
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compose them. And then they reconstruct[br]these elements in the form of these
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geometrical shape. I want to show a few of[br]them. So that was the iPhone. That's good
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old Nokia from 1999. When you see them in[br]an exhibition, they're really tiny. And I
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think we saw that some elements are simply[br]not represented. If you think about rare
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earths, some of them are presenting in[br]smartphone in really tiny quantities like
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less than half a gram. But I couldn't find[br]another image. But this is very big. So
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this is the representation of a Volkswagen[br]Beetle from 1980. And so that took a lot
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of space. And you see an element appear[br]that I was really not expecting, such as
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horse hair and also corc. This is an[br]electic cable. So, you know, a bit of
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copper and a lot of plastic for one meter.[br]That's my favorite, the Kalashnikov. You
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see the the bullets in the front. And when[br]I went to see the first time this
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exhibition and if I didn't look at the[br]label, I had no idea what was what, I
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could not recognize anything. So it shows[br]the level of ignorance of at least people
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like me. But that I could recognize - a[br]pencil. That I could manage. So that's the
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last one. That's a light bulb. That's one[br]way to visualize the elements that
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surround us. It's very designy, quite[br]elegant and charming. But I also like
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artists who adopt a more brutal strategy.[br]So Dani Ploeger also wanted to show the
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inside - well, that was one of his[br]objectives at least - to see the inside of
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electronic devices. So the first part of[br]his project started back in 2012 and 17 he
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infiltrated Phillips and got hired, as you[br]know, this guy. You see them at these
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consumer goods fairs that try to sell it,[br]to sell you gadgets and say what is going
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to change your life? And here is what this[br]can do. So he was he was hired to to sell
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a highly sophisticated shaver for men. And[br]the reason why he wanted to be there is if
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you wanted to understand exactly what were[br]the dynamics and the logic behind the
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constant rapid innovation behind our[br]electronics. So that was the first part.
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He got his hands on confidential material[br]that really explain how people at Philips
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have these teams - I say Philips but I'm[br]sure it's the same elsewhere, of course -
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they really analyze the different types of[br]consumer that we are and find the best way
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to to trick us and to lure us and seduce[br]us into buying new products. And then the
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second part of his project was this year[br]where he bought this machine. It's a
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machine that is called industrial stress[br]testing machine. So it's several of these
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machines, you can buy them. He bought this[br]one on Alibaba in China. And they're
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usually used by makers of whichever mobile[br]phone, whatever, and they simulate all
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kinds of accidents that can happen to your[br]device like you walking on it or dropping
0:17:09.309,0:17:17.990
it. I'm going to show a video of this one.[br]video of machine in action is shown
0:17:37.640,0:17:43.370
So that's our poor shaver inside. I like[br]the machine because, you know, it has a
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bit of a vintage feel inside. The object[br]that it tests are quite sophisticated and
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very, very much 21st century. But when you[br]see the the control panel, it seems to be
0:17:54.360,0:18:00.929
stuck in the mid 20th century. It has[br]these kind of old design. Apparently it
0:18:00.929,0:18:05.790
was a nightmare to get it shipped to to[br]Europe. It costs more to get it shipped
0:18:05.790,0:18:12.480
than the machine itself. And if you're[br]like me and you could watch this video for
0:18:12.480,0:18:17.690
hours of the arm rotating and breaking[br]things, and if you live in Leipzig, the
0:18:17.690,0:18:22.270
machine is going to come to the Museum of[br]Fine Art in March as part of an exhibition
0:18:22.270,0:18:30.370
called Zero Waste. So the reason why he[br]did this, like, obscene display of
0:18:30.370,0:18:37.860
destruction of luxury goods was that you[br]had two reasons for doing that. First of
0:18:37.860,0:18:45.760
all, the first reason was, is that usually[br]when we think about consumer culture and
0:18:45.760,0:18:52.050
how we consume too much and throw away too[br]much and and waste and the onus usually is
0:18:52.050,0:18:57.180
on the consumer. You know, the consumer is[br]wrong, and yeah, we are wrong. We buy too
0:18:57.180,0:19:04.660
much. But then the wrong starts actually[br]much further upstream. It starts
0:19:04.660,0:19:10.730
everywhere in the line of production and[br]especially in the design and research and
0:19:10.730,0:19:17.470
development teams who engineer constantly[br]new ways to seduce us and to convince us
0:19:17.470,0:19:25.050
that we have to update. And then another[br]reason why he did this project is that is
0:19:25.050,0:19:31.961
that he wanted to to make a comment on[br]maker spaces, which, you know, are very
0:19:31.961,0:19:37.430
interesting, but still feeding on this[br]vocabulary of entrepreneurship,
0:19:37.430,0:19:44.870
innovation, progress. But they never[br]really, truly and deeply and and they
0:19:44.870,0:19:52.040
don't really challenge in a systemic way[br]consumerism. So he saw this laboratory of
0:19:52.040,0:19:58.970
electric electronic aging as a kind of[br]make up space for unmaking things. And
0:19:58.970,0:20:06.080
also you get to see what's inside this[br]piece of electronic. But I would like to
0:20:06.080,0:20:11.430
go back to Aghogbloshie again, because if[br]there are people who know very well what's
0:20:11.430,0:20:16.520
inside our electronics and what they are[br]made of it's the workers of Aghogbloshie.
0:20:16.520,0:20:20.580
And sometimes, you know, when we think[br]about this kind of place and I think the
0:20:20.580,0:20:25.630
example of Aghogbloshie, but as I'm sure[br]you know, there are equal sites elsewhere
0:20:25.630,0:20:31.390
in Africa, in Asia and Bangladesh et[br]cetera. We have the feeling that this is a
0:20:31.390,0:20:38.540
big junkyard and that it's a kind of huge[br]mess and it's it's dark and it's dirty.
0:20:38.540,0:20:44.790
But this is a map done by architects,[br]designers and activist who spent a lot of
0:20:44.790,0:20:50.060
time in Aghogbloshie. And you probably[br]cannot read - well, you probably all have
0:20:50.060,0:20:55.160
better eyes than me, but it's still[br]written very small - they map the
0:20:55.160,0:21:00.111
activities in Aghogbloshie. And if you[br]read the map, you see that the there is a
0:21:00.111,0:21:06.550
maker space, there are spaces dedicated to[br]disassembling, there are places to eat, to
0:21:06.550,0:21:14.840
pray, to disassemble, to repair, to have[br]fun. And also, we have the feeling that,
0:21:14.840,0:21:21.880
well, these are just people discarding and[br]dissecting our electronics. But actually,
0:21:21.880,0:21:26.790
the way they work is very sophisticated[br]and very fine. So first of all, they get
0:21:26.790,0:21:31.650
these huge containers, that with content,[br]pretty much anything we don't want that's
0:21:31.650,0:21:37.300
electric or electronic, including entire[br]cars. And they divide them in streams. So
0:21:37.300,0:21:45.370
this is a heap of photocopy machines. They[br]also can detect when something can't be
0:21:45.370,0:21:52.230
repaired, but they also can detect which[br]part of the machine all the computer is
0:21:52.230,0:21:57.870
still, which component can be saved and[br]reused to repair something else. So that
0:21:57.870,0:22:05.150
also goes on another pile. I think they're[br]much better than us at differentiating
0:22:05.150,0:22:14.000
different types of plastics. They have[br]places dedicated to weigh in the kind of
0:22:14.000,0:22:21.700
metal that they retrieve. And I would say[br]that they're quite like you suddenly, not
0:22:21.700,0:22:28.280
like me. So when I have a computer and it[br]doesn't work. I think for me, it's a black
0:22:28.280,0:22:33.140
box. I'm never going to open it. But these[br]people, their job, their business is to
0:22:33.140,0:22:38.810
open our old computers and better than[br]that. Most of them, like not most of them,
0:22:38.810,0:22:43.750
but many of them, can repair and give them[br]a second life or really a new lease of
0:22:43.750,0:22:51.070
life, which, you know, it's important[br]because we think all these objects are
0:22:51.070,0:22:54.660
dead, but actually they give them a second[br]life and then, you know, they repair it.
0:22:54.660,0:23:00.520
They repair them, they sell them to[br]communities around Aghogbloshie or in
0:23:00.520,0:23:05.130
Ghana, or in neighboring countries to[br]people would otherwise not be able to
0:23:05.130,0:23:11.821
afford a new printer or new TV or a[br]computer. And then, as you can see, they
0:23:11.821,0:23:21.800
have places to have fun. And they, too,[br]are quite fans of the Premier League. So
0:23:21.800,0:23:27.790
the map I was showing, just before. With[br]all the activities in Aghogbloshie has
0:23:27.790,0:23:33.860
been made by architects and designers DK[br]Osseo-Asare and Yasmina Abbas. They spent
0:23:33.860,0:23:39.360
a lot of time trying to understand how the[br]community was working. And they designed
0:23:39.360,0:23:47.580
this kiosk with anything they could find[br]on the scrapyard. And it's a meeting place
0:23:47.580,0:23:54.240
where they invite the community of[br]Aghogbloshie to meet people such as
0:23:54.240,0:24:00.550
graduates or young students in science,[br]technology, engineering, math. And so the
0:24:00.550,0:24:07.740
students and graduates who have very, very[br]theoretical vision on technology. And then
0:24:07.740,0:24:13.730
they get to meet these people, who have[br]extremely sophisticated, very deep, know
0:24:13.730,0:24:20.630
how. And together they exchange ideas and[br]they've developed ways, for example, you
0:24:20.630,0:24:25.540
know, the traditional lead to to recover[br]the copper from the cable, they would burn
0:24:25.540,0:24:30.660
the cable, the plastic, which is very[br]toxic and also damages the copper. So they
0:24:30.660,0:24:36.540
find a way to recover the copper without[br]burning the plastic, which means that it's
0:24:36.540,0:24:42.980
less toxic, it's safer, and they can sell[br]the copper for more money. So it's kind of
0:24:42.980,0:24:50.650
a win-win. The aim was to develop together[br]new processes, new ways of working, new
0:24:50.650,0:24:56.540
tools. They also have fun. So with bits[br]and pieces, they found on the scrap yard a
0:24:56.540,0:25:02.150
couple of years ago they made these drones[br]that flew over the junkyard. So it's a
0:25:02.150,0:25:10.740
project I like a lot because it pays[br]hommage to the kind of work that doesn't
0:25:10.740,0:25:15.230
get a lot of recognition. But that's[br]really important, you know, when you think
0:25:15.230,0:25:22.110
of, as I said, the metals we are using to[br]make our electronics and also even the
0:25:22.110,0:25:28.890
solar panels and and the wind turbine et[br]cetera, and all our renewable energy they
0:25:28.890,0:25:35.850
also rely on the same metals that are[br]disappearing, at least are becoming less
0:25:35.850,0:25:39.590
available. So that's one of the reasons I[br]really like this project. And also, it
0:25:39.590,0:25:46.530
reminded me of this performance from[br]already forty years ago by Mierle Laderman
0:25:46.530,0:25:54.230
Ukeles. She kind of decided she would be[br]an artist in residency at the New York
0:25:54.230,0:26:00.420
Department of Sanitation. So that's the[br]people who collect the trash. So she spent
0:26:00.420,0:26:05.980
a year with them everyday. She was there[br]at six in the morning and she followed
0:26:05.980,0:26:10.720
them and she did, she had this gesture of[br]she wanted to meet every single one of
0:26:10.720,0:26:16.140
them. There were 8500 employees. So she[br]she wanted to shake them with them and
0:26:16.140,0:26:21.060
say, thank you for keeping New York City[br]alive. Which I think is a lovely gesture,
0:26:21.060,0:26:25.959
because suddenly this anonymous mass of[br]bin men you realize that there are
0:26:25.959,0:26:33.580
individuals. And yeah, she documented and[br]talked with them. It's a way to bring
0:26:33.580,0:26:39.549
attention to a profession that we don't[br]value a lot. And also, she wanted by
0:26:39.549,0:26:44.630
spending so much time among them to make[br]people realize that the work of these
0:26:44.630,0:26:50.559
people should be valued at least as much[br]as her own as an artist because of the
0:26:50.559,0:26:58.500
role they play for the collective society.[br]Yeah. Okay. I see. Still Agbogbloshie
0:26:58.500,0:27:04.500
but if I had time I would talk about other[br]projects in Africa. This one's a startup.
0:27:04.500,0:27:10.059
African born 3D that makes 3D printers[br]that at least a third of the components
0:27:10.059,0:27:20.930
come are found in second hand on second[br]hand, in discarded electronic let's say.
0:27:20.930,0:27:26.320
And I think what this show is, is a kind[br]of mindset and an attitude that should
0:27:26.320,0:27:32.000
inspire us. And it's going to show to show[br]you a few example of this attitude, I
0:27:32.000,0:27:37.360
think is really important is is trying to[br]make the most of what you have instead of
0:27:37.360,0:27:44.290
jumping on the next gadget and gizmo, but[br]really trying to to be as creative, as
0:27:44.290,0:27:49.410
innovative as possible. So in India,[br]they have this movement called Jugaad,
0:27:49.410,0:27:56.870
where even in the West we[br]translate it as frugal innovation. So this
0:27:56.870,0:28:03.420
is. Oh yeah. You needed. You had only a[br]motorcycle. You need a ploughing machine
0:28:03.420,0:28:11.260
for his land. So you adapted. The the the[br]is motorcycle. And you turn it into a kind
0:28:11.260,0:28:28.550
of.[br]sudden silence
0:28:28.550,0:28:34.870
RD: I can take a traveling mic[br]Audio technician: Dead battery.
0:28:34.870,0:28:41.230
RD: So I should keep ... watch out for my[br]hair, yeah.
0:28:41.230,0:28:47.191
Herald: In the meantime, the question. You[br]know it. Oh, no. I think the meantime is
0:28:47.191,0:28:53.440
over. No. So, uh, you know the question.[br]And you know the case 6-2-1. Someone? No?
0:28:53.440,0:29:02.660
So six hours of sleep a day. Two meals?[br]No. Oh, boring. Anyways, to remember it:
0:29:02.660,0:29:09.040
six hours of sleep, two meals a day and[br]one shower, please remember. And, uh, to
0:29:09.040,0:29:14.140
make some minor announcements, don't[br]forget the trash. Do we have audio back?
0:29:14.140,0:29:17.540
RD: I think so.[br]Herald: Perfect. Then, please.
0:29:17.540,0:29:26.500
RD: I can't believe you told people[br]to wash. Yeah. Yeah. This is answering
0:29:26.500,0:29:32.350
precise need instead of creating demand.[br]And sometimes, you know, it respond to a
0:29:32.350,0:29:40.520
specific problem. Sometimes it can be[br]scaled up. So this Indian inventor made a
0:29:40.520,0:29:46.809
fridge that doesn't use electricity, but[br]uses evaporation to to keep the food cool
0:29:46.809,0:29:51.250
simply because there are people who live[br]in a rural areas who don't necessarily can
0:29:51.250,0:29:58.100
afford a fridge or don't have continuous[br]access to electricity. And of course, the
0:29:58.100,0:30:02.370
best example and the most famous example[br]of Jugaad, is the Indian
0:30:02.370,0:30:12.710
space mission. Since 2014 India has is a[br]probe orbiting Mars and the Indian
0:30:12.710,0:30:18.610
engineers, and pretty much everybody in[br]India jokes about the fact that it costs
0:30:18.610,0:30:23.549
less money for them, that the space[br]mission cost less money than than your
0:30:23.549,0:30:31.160
average Hollywood blockbuster about space.[br]And, you know, it's not about making
0:30:31.160,0:30:42.510
things cheap. It's about reinventing[br]process, of designing, of manufacturing
0:30:42.510,0:30:48.070
and of distributing. Okay. I don't have[br]that much time. So I'm going to skip a few
0:30:48.070,0:30:56.700
things. Yes. So I've been to India,[br]Africa. Let's get back to to Asia, because
0:30:56.700,0:31:01.880
I really like this project. Say it's a[br]project by an artist who also saw images
0:31:01.880,0:31:06.799
from Agbogbloshien similar a[br]junkyards. And so he was interested in
0:31:06.799,0:31:11.700
e-waste as well. He found himself in[br]Taiwan and he found this really cutting
0:31:11.700,0:31:18.260
edge company that deals with e-waste no[br]one wants. So usually when you find a
0:31:18.260,0:31:25.260
company that deals with recycling midsize,[br]usually they focus on the nice metals, the
0:31:25.260,0:31:30.569
ones that are valuable like in a copper,[br]for example. And then you have pieces of
0:31:30.569,0:31:39.250
electronic waste that no one wants, such[br]as a I don't know the one that contains
0:31:39.250,0:31:47.610
lead or CRT monitors or glass fiber from[br]printed electronic boards. This kind of
0:31:47.610,0:31:51.480
thing that really no one knows what to do[br]with it. Well, they found a way. So the
0:31:51.480,0:31:59.650
company is called Super Dragon[br]Technology. And the trick they found is
0:31:59.650,0:32:05.660
that they just take all these bits and[br]pieces of waste that no one wants and they
0:32:05.660,0:32:09.970
crush them into a powder, they mix them[br]with epoxy and they make these splendid
0:32:09.970,0:32:15.759
objects out of them. And because I think[br]they're quite crafty, they can imitate
0:32:15.759,0:32:21.570
very well the appearance of bronze, of[br]marble, of porcelain, you know, very noble
0:32:21.570,0:32:27.520
material. And also they play with the[br]proportion of epoxy and this toxic powder
0:32:27.520,0:32:32.110
to make it so like feel like it's very[br]heavy if it's supposed to imitate bronze,
0:32:32.110,0:32:37.500
etc. And so they're decorative objects[br]with the particularity that they contain a
0:32:37.500,0:32:41.460
lot of lead. So you're not supposed to[br]manipulate them too much might be
0:32:41.460,0:32:47.230
dangerous. They also have in common that[br]they have a very peculiar esthetic. As you
0:32:47.230,0:32:54.250
can see, this is a trophy. And then have[br]these these wonderful little thing where
0:32:54.250,0:33:00.970
they actually they make fake rocks, which[br]looks absolutely eccentric and crazy. But
0:33:00.970,0:33:05.890
the story is that these are not just any[br]type of rocks. They're supposed to be
0:33:05.890,0:33:14.450
scholar stone. So during the tense 11th[br]and 12th century in China, there was the
0:33:14.450,0:33:21.710
dispassion for the so-called scholar stone[br]where an intellectual from China would go
0:33:21.710,0:33:25.360
in the countryside and admire the[br]landscape. And suddenly they would find
0:33:25.360,0:33:29.860
these rocks that were seemed to be[br]sculpted by the elements that had really
0:33:29.860,0:33:35.230
strange and interesting shapes. And they[br]thought it was the manifestation of the
0:33:35.230,0:33:40.610
creativity of nature. And so they would[br]bring them back and use them to
0:33:40.610,0:33:44.700
contemplate and meditate. And, you know,[br]now nowadays you can you can still buy
0:33:44.700,0:33:51.731
some of these scholar stones in auction.[br]They're quite valuable. But what I really,
0:33:51.731,0:33:58.679
really like is that these superb dragon[br]technology is the way they think. So they
0:33:58.679,0:34:04.360
can figure out that there's a difference[br]between applied art that makes you do
0:34:04.360,0:34:10.710
useful things like plates and furniture[br]and then fine art that makes basically
0:34:10.710,0:34:16.649
useless things and sees the ways no one[br]wants is useless. Well, that kinds of
0:34:16.649,0:34:21.800
fits with the requirement to make fine[br]art. So this way all these objects have
0:34:21.800,0:34:25.819
been shown showing to you. They call them[br]green art and they have a green art
0:34:25.819,0:34:30.310
gallery, and appearantly it's quite[br]successful. Tyler Coburn bought some of
0:34:30.310,0:34:36.919
these stones and actually accompanies them[br]with a text. So I know your narrative
0:34:36.919,0:34:41.840
where you have the story of one single[br]grain of sand that tells its many stories
0:34:41.840,0:34:47.210
how it started as a sand and then became[br]became a piece of electronics and then a
0:34:47.210,0:34:54.759
piece of trash and then and then ended its[br]life as art. Found it very charming. I
0:34:54.759,0:35:01.850
don't have time for this. Yes. Very[br]quickly. I mean, I'm famous for giving
0:35:01.850,0:35:06.750
very depressing talks. So now I'm trying[br]to insert a little bit of happiness in my
0:35:06.750,0:35:12.860
talks. Things are changing a bit. That's[br]why you have now repair cafes that are
0:35:12.860,0:35:16.990
quite successful, yet there are also shops[br]you can find where the people working
0:35:16.990,0:35:21.300
there and absolutely not affiliated with[br]with Apple, Samsung and Nokia. But they
0:35:21.300,0:35:26.099
found a way to give a second life to your[br]objects and repair them. So and usually
0:35:26.099,0:35:31.490
they are much nicer than the guys at the[br]Genius Bar. If you've ever had to deal
0:35:31.490,0:35:38.599
with them. There are more and more Web[br]sites that sell secondhand goods that have
0:35:38.599,0:35:42.950
that even come with a one year warranty.[br]You've heard about the fairphone, of
0:35:42.950,0:35:50.320
course. And then brings me quite abruptly[br]to the other type of waste I wanted to
0:35:50.320,0:35:55.010
talk about, which is nuclear waste. I[br]thought I saw that I needed to talk about
0:35:55.010,0:35:59.380
nuclear waste because because it's waste,[br]because it's energy. And so it's very
0:35:59.380,0:36:06.420
technological and extremely problematic.[br]So what do you do when you have your
0:36:06.420,0:36:12.400
country and you have a lot of nuclear[br]waste? I mean, the most toxic can be toxic
0:36:12.400,0:36:19.500
for 100.000 years, up to a million years.[br]It's going to be very, very dangerous. You
0:36:19.500,0:36:25.390
have two choices. Either you keep it at[br]hand like buried, but not too deep so that
0:36:25.390,0:36:30.341
you hope that in the near future someone[br]will have a brilliant idea and be able to
0:36:30.341,0:36:36.090
we'll know what to do with it and how to[br]handle it safely. Or else you do like they
0:36:36.090,0:36:40.180
are doing in in Finland and in other[br]countries. And France is thinking about
0:36:40.180,0:36:47.950
that. You bury them very, very deep under[br]the ground in deep geological repository.
0:36:47.950,0:36:53.010
But then you have a problem because it's[br]going to be to be dangerous for thousands
0:36:53.010,0:37:00.430
of years. So how do you inform people,[br]like a future generation that it's dangerous
0:37:00.430,0:37:07.890
and they shouldn't go nearby. Either you[br]use text, but then languages change,
0:37:07.890,0:37:11.599
languages disappear. I mean, we might[br]think that, oh, everybody speaks English,
0:37:11.599,0:37:17.651
but everybody used to speak a bit of[br]Latin. And now if you are confronted with
0:37:17.651,0:37:23.240
the text of Latin, you might not find it[br]easy to understand, even if your mother
0:37:23.240,0:37:28.640
language is English. Dealing with with an[br]English text from the middle age is going
0:37:28.640,0:37:32.200
to be difficult. I speak French dealing[br]with the with a French text from the
0:37:32.200,0:37:39.390
middle age is difficult. So how about[br]having some nice icons such as the skull
0:37:39.390,0:37:43.460
and crossbones like everybody, you would[br]think that everybody associated with
0:37:43.460,0:37:49.990
toxicity. Absolutely not. It's quite it's[br]quite new. It's only since the 1800 that
0:37:49.990,0:37:54.400
the skull and crossbones have been[br]associated with toxicity. In the middle
0:37:54.400,0:38:00.280
age Christians when they saw Skull and[br]Bones they tought of renewal and
0:38:00.280,0:38:07.560
resirection. And I guess if you show the[br]children the skull and crossbones there,
0:38:07.560,0:38:12.140
they they're not going to see toxicity.[br]They are going to say, oh, cool, pirate's
0:38:12.140,0:38:17.910
Treasure Island. So you see, that's[br]tricky. Yeah, the symbols. So I am going
0:38:17.910,0:38:22.710
to show a couple of ideas that[br]semioticians and artists and philosophers
0:38:22.710,0:38:30.230
and thinkers have thought about to deal[br]with how to signal to very, very distant
0:38:30.230,0:38:33.760
generations that there is something[br]special there and you shouldn't go near
0:38:33.760,0:38:40.900
it. Oh yeah. Okay, I forgot this one. Even[br]if you found a suitable message, let's say
0:38:40.900,0:38:44.510
you found a suitable message. You also[br]have to make sure that people would take
0:38:44.510,0:38:51.750
it seriously. The thing, the coastline off[br]of Japan, there are these so-called
0:38:51.750,0:38:56.170
tsunami stones that basically say, please[br]don't build beyond this point because it's
0:38:56.170,0:38:59.690
very dangerous. There's been a tsunami.[br]They will come back one day and no one
0:38:59.690,0:39:07.270
paid attention. Anyway, let's go back to[br]my artist and semioticians idea. So in the
0:39:07.270,0:39:14.200
early 80s, a semiotician had the idea of,[br]you know, to preserve the memory of the
0:39:14.200,0:39:20.170
presence of a very toxic, very dangerous[br]nuclear waste, you have to make it part of
0:39:20.170,0:39:25.310
society to include it in the fabric of[br]society. So, he suggested the creation of
0:39:25.310,0:39:31.590
an atomic priesthood. So that would be a[br]religious order that would have as its
0:39:31.590,0:39:37.740
mission to keep the memory of the danger[br]alive, using rituals and myths and
0:39:37.740,0:39:44.840
folklore. Some artists thought, well, we[br]should plan the forest like a forest of
0:39:44.840,0:39:50.920
genetically modified trees on top of one[br]of those repositories, so that in the
0:39:50.920,0:39:55.450
autumn the leaves would bloom and become[br]blue and that they would fall and that
0:39:55.450,0:40:01.750
there would be a nice blue carpet. And[br]people like in thousands of years would
0:40:01.750,0:40:05.160
interpret it as: oh this is a secret[br]place, we should leave it in peace and
0:40:05.160,0:40:09.740
respect it. I really love this idea. I[br]find it a bit naive because, you know,
0:40:09.740,0:40:15.609
human beings don't have a great track[br]record of respecting beautiful pieces of
0:40:15.609,0:40:21.590
landscape. So, yeah, I'm not very[br]optimistic. Yeah, and then there is this
0:40:21.590,0:40:30.780
kind of cynical idea of modifying a cat so[br]that the cat would stop glowing or
0:40:30.780,0:40:36.070
changing the color of its fur in the[br]presence of high red. Oh, 20 minutes
0:40:36.070,0:40:43.470
again. Keep adding time. But I'm almost[br]done anyway. So that would be a cat that
0:40:43.470,0:40:49.340
changes color or glow in the presence of[br]radioactivity. This is not one of those
0:40:49.340,0:40:59.200
cats this is an artistic interpretation of[br]Marcel Rickli. So yeah, I think it's not
0:40:59.200,0:41:10.660
very nice. To be honest with you, I like[br]all those ideas of trying to transmit and
0:41:10.660,0:41:17.021
connect with very, very distant time and[br]with people who are living in moments, in
0:41:17.021,0:41:23.390
times we cannot even comprehend and[br]imagine. But I'm not totally convinced.
0:41:23.390,0:41:27.670
And I mean, they're charming, but I don't[br]think they would stand the test of deep
0:41:27.670,0:41:34.680
time, mostly because it just that the[br]periods we're talking about, like even
0:41:34.680,0:41:40.720
100.000 years, it goes beyond human[br]experience. How do you relate to it? It's
0:41:40.720,0:41:46.860
just so far away that it becomes abstract[br]and almost unreal. So I've been thinking,
0:41:46.860,0:41:50.260
you know, about this project. I've been[br]interested in nuclear waste for quite a
0:41:50.260,0:41:56.930
few years now. So I've been thinking other[br]projects, artistic or others, that can
0:41:56.930,0:42:03.570
relate to, like physically or emotionally,[br]with very, very distant past, but in the
0:42:03.570,0:42:06.960
distant times, but in the past, because we[br]don't know the future, we don't know what
0:42:06.960,0:42:12.130
it's going to be like. But the past, we[br]kind of have an idea. I couldn't find any
0:42:12.130,0:42:17.660
project that really, that I was convinced[br]could give a good experience, a good idea
0:42:17.660,0:42:24.190
of relating to a distant time in the past.[br]Until last month, there was this big art
0:42:24.190,0:42:33.000
fair in Turin and I found this butt plug[br]by a Swedish artist called Thomas Hämén.
0:42:33.000,0:42:37.950
And the particularity of this butt plug is[br]that it's made of copper light. So it's
0:42:37.950,0:42:46.130
basically dinosaur poo from around 140[br]million years ago. And that's where I
0:42:46.130,0:42:53.380
discovered that there is actually a big[br]market for the incredible, for fossilized
0:42:53.380,0:42:59.080
dinosaur excrements. You can buy it. I[br]checked. You can buy it on Amazon. I'm not
0:42:59.080,0:43:03.730
sure it's going to be an authentic, but[br]it's available on Amazon. So I thought,
0:43:03.730,0:43:08.490
yeah, that's it. I mean, if you were to[br]buy it and use it, you would actually be
0:43:08.490,0:43:15.090
in close connection with a living creature[br]that, I mean, in intimate contact, I could
0:43:15.090,0:43:24.330
say, with a creature that lived at a very,[br]very distant time. Okay. So, we are almost
0:43:24.330,0:43:30.200
at the end. I have three lines of[br]conclusion that I'm going to read. But
0:43:30.200,0:43:37.590
then I want to show you a film. And my[br]conclusion would be that all of this is
0:43:37.590,0:43:43.670
very fanciful, especially the end. But it[br]might still be useful to keep in mind that
0:43:43.670,0:43:50.020
something like renewable energy that keeps[br]us so, so passionate, is very often viewed
0:43:50.020,0:43:55.330
as a long term solution to the climate[br]emergency. But unfortunately, renewable
0:43:55.330,0:44:01.350
energy relies on physical resources that[br]are neither infinite nor renewable. And
0:44:01.350,0:44:05.859
right now, it looks like we are busy[br]implementing a future that was dreamt and
0:44:05.859,0:44:12.450
conceived a few decades ago. At a time[br]when society wasn't worried about
0:44:12.450,0:44:20.450
exploding climate crises, the erasure of[br]wildlife and growing material scarcity
0:44:20.450,0:44:27.369
accompanied by an unmanageable heaps of[br]waste. Anyway, I've just been talking
0:44:27.369,0:44:36.180
about the future and I would like to end[br]with a short movie set in the future by
0:44:36.180,0:44:45.630
Alexandra Lupashko, who is a young Russian[br]filmmaker. And I really wanted to show it
0:44:45.630,0:44:51.170
to you for several reasons. One of them is[br]that when I knew I would come back, my
0:44:51.170,0:44:55.280
first thought is that, yes, I'm going to[br]be able to show 2050, because I really
0:44:55.280,0:44:58.900
love it. And the second reason is that I[br]really didn't want to finish my
0:44:58.900,0:45:05.120
presentation with a butt plug.[br]laughter
0:45:11.980,0:45:35.110
(Video starts playing)[br]Music
0:45:53.270,0:46:06.305
Music
0:47:11.476,0:47:21.100
loud heartbeet
0:47:59.285,0:48:02.880
laughter in the audience
0:48:04.935,0:48:06.915
sound of a shot
0:48:09.507,0:48:14.937
applause
0:48:14.937,0:48:33.720
music
0:48:51.360,0:49:04.180
Yeah.. applause[br]Yeah. I forget to say it had nothing to do
0:49:04.180,0:49:11.100
with waste, but it was just irresistible,[br]I had to show it to you. Okay, that's it
0:49:11.100,0:49:17.459
for me. Unless you have questions.[br]Herald: Thank you very much, Régine
0:49:17.459,0:49:30.450
Débatty. applause As usual, if you have[br]questions, we have microphones over there
0:49:30.450,0:49:35.860
and microphones over there. Please stand[br]in line. And of course, we have questions
0:49:35.860,0:49:43.250
from the Internet. OK. In the meantime,[br]small thing. If you want to read, know
0:49:43.250,0:49:48.510
about.... Sorry, if you want to read more[br]about Régine. She writes also on a
0:49:48.510,0:49:51.810
website. It's called "We Make Money, not[br]Art dot com"
0:49:51.810,0:49:55.390
[https://we-make-money-not-art.com].[br]Which is, at least if I am concerned, a
0:49:55.390,0:50:01.420
brilliant title. And you write about what?[br]Régine: I've been writing, I mean, I think
0:50:01.420,0:50:06.660
is for almost 16 years about the way[br]designers, artists and hackers are using
0:50:06.660,0:50:11.970
science and technology in a creative but[br]more importantly socially engaged way. So
0:50:11.970,0:50:17.790
it's quite political, I like to think.[br]Herald: Which suits perfectly to this to
0:50:17.790,0:50:19.690
this event.[br]Régine: Yeah.
0:50:19.690,0:50:27.810
Herald: So questions? I see none so far.[br]None so far. In this case, we can...
0:50:27.810,0:50:31.579
Number four is this.[br]Microphone 4: Um.
0:50:31.579,0:50:38.640
Herald: Now in this case ... I heard an,[br]um. No question. In this case, we can chat
0:50:38.640,0:50:43.230
a little bit more about your website.[br]Régine: Okay
0:50:43.230,0:50:46.099
Herald: So if you want. If you want.[br]Régine: Yeah. It's not going to interest
0:50:46.099,0:50:48.099
people.[br]Herald: I'm pretty sure it does.
0:50:48.099,0:50:50.400
Régine: Okay.[br]Herald: Because I had a quick look and it
0:50:50.400,0:50:54.520
was pretty impressive. You write[br]about AI as far as I know.
0:50:54.520,0:50:59.519
Régine: That's the thing. When I knew I[br]was coming to talk about the best of 2019.
0:50:59.519,0:51:04.820
I was like, this year I've had to deal so[br]much with AI outside of my blog that I
0:51:04.820,0:51:09.500
said "no more AI" except maybe for the[br]film at the end, that, you know, is a bit
0:51:09.500,0:51:13.460
AI, but otherwise...[br]Herald. No AI?
0:51:13.460,0:51:17.850
Régine: Yeah. On my blog, there's been a[br]lot of AI. Yeah. Yeah. I'm a bit sick of
0:51:17.850,0:51:23.480
it. Actually, one of the last ... I wrote[br]about was by Julian Oliver who spoke just
0:51:23.480,0:51:30.230
before me now. Yeah.[br]Herald: Cool. In this case, no more
0:51:30.230,0:51:34.140
questions. Thank you very much.[br]Please, a warm applause for Jean.
0:51:34.140,0:51:37.970
applause
0:51:37.970,0:51:41.449
postroll music
0:51:41.449,0:52:05.000
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