This is radio.

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This week on Radio Eco shark.

We're going to the end of the earth.

It's a feature-length interview 
about new science the chills

Antarctica is melting.

I guarantee you will read headlines 
and see amazing video news

from the science were discovering 
this week sea levels will rise

around the planet for centuries 
reshaping the coastlines and

civilization,

then we'll finish up with the return 
of Marjorie Wilde craft with

more tips on growing your own groceries.

It's all food for thought and action,

I'm Alex Smith,

the journey begins.

There's a lot of action in Antarctica 
and that can bring changes

all over the world.

Here to discuss recent sciences 
Dr. Roland C warmer.

He is a researcher with the Antarctic 
climate and ecosystems

Cooperative Research Centre at the 
University of Tasmania Tasmania

is the closest Australian state to 
Antarctica Dr. Warner welcome

to Radio Eco shock.

With him.

Well,

thank you for joining us for an update 
on this frozen world at the

South Pole.

First of all what parts of Australia 
are closest to Antarctica and

what claims does your country 
have on that continent.

Okay.

Well,

I'm here in Tasmania of an 
island state of Australia.

Half of the Australian mainland 
and well I thought still some

distance away to our south there 
are only a few small islands in

the middle of the Southern Ocean,

between Australia and Antarctica.

However,

as you alluded Australia does have 
a territorial claim to a large

piece of the Antarctic,

but 42% of it,

to be precise now various countries 
establish these claims in an

age of heroic exploration.

You know putting out flags and claiming 
things in the name of if

you know,

typically,

your moniker your state 
with the done thing.

In those days and these claims exist 
and some of them actually

tend to overlap,

particularly around the most successful 
part then tactic in that.

Think of the Antarctic Peninsula 
points up to South America and

one big think there isn't actually 
coined by anyone at all.

But these claims are on 
ice and if you will.

Under their party.

Treaty which was established in 
the 1950s and it's that treaty

that governs how people 
behave in Antarctica.

These days,

whether they have claims to particular 
pieces of turf all but I

will not.

And have you been there.

Yes I think twice.

I think of 3 summer seasons 
with heat strain in US,

British,

French collaborative project this 
imaginatively called ice cap.

This is a bit of a mouthful stands 
for investigating Christ very

evolution through collaborative 2 
physical profiling and what that

means is that we have a whole range 
of instruments on an aircraft

, the fact of the rejuvenated DC 
3 genuine World War II vintage

and we fly for hours and hours.

They are the ice sheet measuring 
many different things and I'm

sure we will discuss today 
using that aircraft.

So I was a Casey station which is 
one of 3 Australian basis on

continent itself that's due south 
of Western Australia and I've

got there.

In this modern era either by flying 
directly there in a jet plane

from here in Havana to the runaway 
on the ice cap behind the

station or rather more long way 
around changing planes that.

US they with murder when flying for 
hours and hours allow you know

ski equipped Hercules to land at 
and on one occasion I've come

home on our ice breaker which 
took 7 considered try.

It's a giant place.

I mean it is a real continent 
now in a shocking bit of news

Antarctica just experienced the 2 
hardest days ever recorded there

, namely 63.5 degrees Fahrenheit,

or 17.5° C and that was that.

The Argentinian Esperanza Base 
on the Antarctic Peninsula.

I've heard that was warmer than the 
temperature in Britain on the

same day in late March.

Is that just a freak occurrence 
or do you think Antarctica is

warming.

Yeah,

I don't say that being involved with 
the phone day here at home.

It's not part of either or outside 
the Antarctic Peninsula.

But think you're Antarctica pointing 
South America is an area of

Antarctica that shows some of the 
greatest climate warming of

recent years.

For the whole planet,

perhaps 5° Celsius warmer 
over the last 50 years,

according to the British Antarctic Survey.

So it's consistent with that sort 
of situation that you're going

to keep getting record breaking maximum 
temperatures and that of

course one hot days where there 
while the trend in hot days who

climbed into it was not a theorist 
of previous record was only 0.4

degree Celsius lower that was back 
in 1961 and it was even later

in the year as a month later was in 
April that's so it's only anti

think the reason is warming.

And so when I 3 state holidays.

You know,

so not a freak occurrence.

All right,

well,

let's turn to a new scientific paper 
you were directly involved in

the title is ocean access to a 
cavity beneath glacier in East

Antarctica.

We need to frame that a bit.

Obviously,

where's the tartan glacier 
and how big is it.

Yes,

certainly.

The Congress is the largest growth 
you know East Antarctica.

It came to split Antarctic are 
up by which in the world,

we're looking at.

After all,

and I think you know everything 
is sort of you know and so we

don't particularly is parts weaving 
between the Greenwich Meridian

and the line below Africa 
Australia so the Congo.

If you can fight on almost exactly 
the opposite side and

Antarctica so less brands when looking 
at about 116 he strongly

too.

So almost directly below 
the city of Perth.

In the capital city of Western Australia.

He took a very large grace period 
driving 540,000 square

kilometers of East Antarctica.

He was like,

I think that is being more than 
twice the size of for you.

Australian state of Victoria for North 
American audience audiences

might be more helpful to say that 
somewhat more than twice the

area of all the Great Lakes put together.

And that's big.

Yeah.

Yes,

okay.

And so just food to fill out is the 
story this 70 billion tons of

ice flows out of that quite you know 
every year that's amazingly

about the flow rate of Niagara Falls,

but obviously it's moving slightly,

but on a very grand scale.

Is that the amount that actually 
reaches the sea every year.

Yep,

that's,

that's what that that out of ice 
that you can collect in half a

million square kilometers,

I should say that they are itself 
is more than 30km wide at the

front considerably stand and Niagara 
Falls and its 200 meters

thick.

So there's a lot of life on the moon.

Well,

you've hit something that's a little 
confusing to some of us we

have sea ice which doesn't directly 
add to sea level rise.

We have melting from land ice like 
Greenland which does add to the

sea level rise and then in the Arctic.

There's only a couple small ice shelves 
left attached to Canadian

polar islands but in Antarctica 
seems confusing,

could you just give us a quick update 
on the relationship between

sea ice ice shelves and 
land based glaciers.

Yeah,

this is certainly something which 
could use a lot of people.

Yet the only turning to do it through 
water or flowing into the

sea.

That could affect sea level rises.

Obviously I that's currently not 
floating on the ocean because

courtesy of the year old Archimedes 
we have you know the guy

that's floating on the ocean when 
it melts well simply filling the

volume.

It was previously displacing.

So that's not to say that the melting 
of things like ice shelves

which is.

Got if your that the floating 
on the ocean.

That's not to say that won't have 
an impact on the earth's system

because it's only going to fresh 
of top layers of the ocean that

in terms of the level rises ground 
a life like Greenland and like

for little ice caps are still remain 
you where you know Arctic and

now graces around the world and 
a sleeping giant in the lift,

which perhaps is not fleeting Antarctica 
that's where think was

going to come from.

I would like to fall out 
of the on story as well.

Think about feel it is this is the 
host of surface freezing and

it's around Antarctica and in the Arctic.

It's one of the big seasonal changes 
in the Earth's climate system

around Antarctica in the wintertime.

The area where the ocean surface 
is predominantly covered by why

such been frozen over the ocean itself.

That's almost double for 
signs of that big,

white pants down of that 
the part of the globe.

And when that sea ice is forming 
the Fiat itself is relatively

fresh from the salt water on that 
they could become smug Saltire

and wipe a different story for one 
we want to tell today that's

actually what drives a lot of the 
deep global ocean circulation

further things would happen with 
sea ice around Antarctica.

We were fixing the the deep political 
be overturning circulation

alcohol plant.

The progression of ourselves shelves 
and the ice sheet is also an

interesting one.

The melting away all the changes 
in ourselves don't directly

affect civil rights of a but there 
are still Ferraris something

for the gatekeepers particularly 
for Antarctica in terms of the

rate at which ice flows from a grounded 
ice into the ocean and we

believe in effect changes in the 
ice shelves are going to be that

the major drivers in changing the 
dynamics of the whole why she

could phone they do play a 
big role in in the future.

Sea level.

It's been compared to pulling 
the cork out of a bottle.

Yes,

all you can think of it as a keystone 
you know basically you have

a big Ice shelf you know talking 
of the biggest ones are very

firmly professionally in very 
large but that would in fact

probably be called fees if they weren't.

Follow us and the presence of 
the ice shelf there provides

retiring stress that's holding back 
ice which is flowing typically

I flew in Antarctica is concentrated 
into major quite fast moving

out late.

Well,

if you know so I streams and it's 
quite focused for likely to top

the lot of mentioning before and 
often is channeled into these

very being ourselves and so if you 
do something to change the ice

shelf.

You're going to do something to change 
the whole balance of forces

from that's that's restraining the 
writer was that ice flows into

the ocean.

It seems parts of Antarctica are 
actually below sea level.

Is that correct and what would that 
continent look like without

the ice cap.

Yes,

that's certainly true again that 
East West Antarctica dividing

line is is perhaps a useful 
one here for a long time.

We've known by probing through to 
see how thick the ice is and how

far down that is bedrock 
company we've known.

There's a lot of the West.

And I think I see is standing on 
the sea floor maybe half a mile

or more still needles but 
deep and that includes,

actually the,

the the summit agreed to between 
I suppose westwards to the Rafah

itself and I thought flows eastwards 
towards you know a month of

sitting in around towards South America.

So if I cheat hadn't developed there.

This would just the ocean one could 
go to work well could go

sailing and what developed 
in the last 2 years,

partly as a result of major aerial 
survey that we've done with ice

cap project is we have better defined it.

The extensive areas of East Antarctica 
are also seeking on bedrock

that deep below sea level.

In this case,

said that turned out because I feel 
even sicker than we thought in

some places,

it's 2 miles thick and in particular,

we've been exploring the aurora Basin,

which is a vast area in the catchment 
of Tottenham life here and

we heard inside the bedrock channels 
that connect that deep cover

to the coast of of the aurora based 
around the world so called

Wilkes.

Sub-glacial basin which is 
immediately to its east.

If the law Michael submarine 
part of of eastern our state

convinced that we removed 
all the are with that,

I think it would simply become a 
collection of islands you could

fail from the Pacific to the Atlantic 
without having to go past

Cape Horn and he can talk,

it wouldn't have seen major itself,

it might even writers see.

And so until they new research 
done by a team,

we didn't really understand how warmer 
waters could undermine this

tartan glacier.

How does it work.

And how did you do the science 
to find this out.

Yeah,

the,

the way that works is that will 
be crucial question for getting

melting of ourselves and it's 
changing the follow.

Ground a life behind used to working 
out is the warm ocean water

nearby and more importantly all 
the pathways by which it can

circulated to weigh up all the 
continental shelf and kind of

actually getting into these cavities 
underneath the ice shelves.

They have much in the time left,

you can see how deep the ocean is 
if you fire up and down with on

you know shit,

but it's very hard to work out 
what's the geometry of the sea

floor underneath.

Maybe one of needing 2 kilometers of

I now Wesley serving aircraft reviews 
have a radar system that can

see right through to the base for 
the iPhone and can even see lot

of internal structure through 
the life as well.

We also have some magnetometers to 
try and figure out what sort of

character and actually underlying 
the ICC most importantly for

this work,

we had a very sense the gravity 
money before long we mention my

new variations in the strength of 
local gravity I'm flying very

near the surface and very slowly.

Obviously it's very maybe 140 knots,

these is ideal for that sort of survey.

You know they mean you have to 
fit now and there's a lot of

detailed work to figure out how 
those tiny variations in the

strength of work or gravity can be 
translated into what death of

ice and water a raucous directly 
below your 5 track so I right I

can't penetrate seawater water.

So we don't see the bottom of an 
icy so we only 3 the bedrock

where the ice is on the ground.

But this gravity days are allowed 
us to map is inaccessible

Welshman cavities underneath ourselves 
and indeed to map the

seafloor off the coast.

There were often see Astra meant ships 
from getting in and so what

we've been able to do is to map out 
the shape of bedrock beneath

this floating terminus of both 
the problem crisis around a

neighboring ourself called the Moscow 
University herself and the

most serious finding is that there 
are some deepwater channel that

me open ocean to the charity and 
this includes a previously

completely unknown Persia logical pathway.

If you like another channel,

it increases the prospect that what 
war can circulate into this

cavity and maybe if the temperature 
of the water changes then the

melting which is already quite 
extensive and therefore the

dynamics of the system will change.

And if you know the story ideas 
or thoughts on something you've

heard contacted us can radio an 
equal shot of Darfur and that's

radio equal shot and orgy.

West you were list.

Going to Radio Eco shock I'm Alex 
Smith with Australian scientist

Rulon C Warner Rowland,

can we expect any measurable sea 
level rise from the Tartan

glacier complex say in this century.

Yes we can in we're already seeing 
some small contribution to sea

level rise and I'm not sure of that 
anybody's total all I have.

Because the of us you know crisis 
dream that forms the life here

is actually.

Getting thinner near the coast in 
fact surface there has been in

recent years and have a few years,

they said.

It's been dropping by maybe Vermeer 
and a half per year.

So this is in fact innocent parties,

one of the hot spots where they 
definitely ice loss in terms of

what will happen in the 
rest of the century.

We now know that it's possible to 
get water in there and dynamics

of the top of the person says that 
this already some considerable

melting going on there.

We don't really know in detail how 
future climate high increase

that supply and what the consequent 
transmission of that affect

but level rise would be,

but it's certainly anything parking.

It's the place to wants went the 
timescale is centuries all of

with a little more we don't 
quite know them,

but if you people are taking 
this very seriously.

Harris,

perhaps in the fantastic haunts.

To spend a lot of talk between scientists 
about the importance of

the grounding line,

what is that.

Yes.

The Grammy moments probably really 
more bizarre and it is winnable

and Gracie actually starts to to 
go afloat whenever we just a

scuffle what event.

I think that I think to be really 
on the sea floor and as its

forces towards the Mars and eventually 
there comes a point where

it simply going to go off white 
given direction of life.

Well,

it probably would be better if 
it was called the underground

entwined.

One of the flotation line,

it's important because it's the place 
where suddenly the base of

the ice sheet is not protected 
by by being on the ground and

suddenly the possibility of wish 
and driven melting the UMP

commences and I should say that 
it's again something we've only

learned in the last 2 decades 
that near these crowning line

somewhere often the ice is very deep 
here in Miami Tottenham we're

talking about a transition point 
that's probably a mile below sea

level.

The the the melting even is grounding 
aren't these 10s of meters

year maybe 15 years here.

And given that the water was doing 
that and they'll think it still

by by any swimmers stand I'm 
very close to freezing.

It's likely that this is an extremely 
thing to be part of of the

climate system.

So that's the first thing that's 
important about the grounding.

On the second thing that's 
important is this,

particularly in some configurations 
of the bedrock these grounding

lines themselves my move.

So it's not just a matter of bringing 
more iced up to her.

You know my fixed gaze and then having 
to follow through their and

and and they'll it's not possible 
that the grounding itself will

migrate inland reducing the 5 on 
the ground and the high street

and transmitting these changes in 
the forces of the even further

upstream.

We'll sea level rises.

The real wildcard when we think 
about the impact of Antarctic

melting I've just gone through a 
paper by lead author Fernando

Apollo titled volume loss from 
Antarctic ice shelves is

accelerating.

Is it just the ice shelves or 
is ice loss from Antarctica

increasing and at a faster rate.

Do we know.

Yeah,

I do this comes back to that.

The point we were.

This guy thing you know you know that 
these guys have done a great

job in trying to improve our understanding 
about what's happening

to ice shelves previously we had 
quite good measurements swimmer

quite precise either of you sort of 
that was flying in space for a

few years showing that these ice 
shelves of getting home and I'm

really hard problem because given 
look I shelf it's floating.

If you see half a meter change 
in the surface height of the

fighting are so often means that 
he lost 5 meters ice from the

wire what they've done here,

he said.

While at 5-year record is is rather 
short and some of the longest

recall that's available actually heavenly.

And I think he is from some writer 
satellites that were measuring

the height and ice shelves and so 
they've been able to conclude

that ice shelves are certainly on 
the whole it so they're losing

which is actually slightly fresh 
link the Antarctic coastal

erosion but because beginning Feb.

They are also likely reducing this 
restraining force they have on

the high street and in fact they 
are when they see the biggest

changes in West Antarctica,

in those places where there out 
like have been observed to be

speeding up,

so it's only important and it's 
important in terms of what we,

what we think is one of the controllers 
of Chinese in the ICC and

they level contributions from the itself.

In a comment on that article,

one of the scientists Lori 
pad been expressed.

There's a lot of uncertainty about 
what will happen on Antarctica

as the world climate changes.

In fact,

he said.

Quote it is plausible that even if 
the Earth's average temperature

increases effect on ocean currents 
around Antarctica might

actually work against Antarctic ice 
sheet melting and he goes on

to say that that past a records 
may not tell us a lot because

we're changing the climate so fast 
compared to what happened in

past times what do you 
think about all that.

Well,

it's true that one,

one has to be careful about he was 
financial planners tell you

part the performance is guaranteed 
a future performance,

but with changing the composition 
of the atmosphere,

and so he's corrective driver for 
changing climate is no longer be

the Milinkevich the so called ice 
age cycle I do those changes

were pretty dramatic in terms of 
sea level rise 20,000 years ago

when was great Hemisphere ice sheets 
and decayed but certainly

we're forcing system a lot faster 
around them any natural forcing

that's these apply I'd be a little 
surprised if it was actually

going to have to work against I see 
my thing on the whole the deep

ocean,

he's already warming and you've 
only got to warm water a little

bit for it to carry a lot of heat 
campaign turns away he can be

carried by changes in air temperature.

So I think that the changing dynamic 
response is going to be quite

high and that's so hard to see who 
we can avoid conveying that

don't want to really high shelves 
and then by weakening ourselves

increase some nice discharge 
from Antarctica.

It's only warmer air temperatures 
will generate some higher

snowfall that it's not really clear 
that that can dominate the

sort of exhilaration the life 
and we've already seen.

And Lori tab and also talked about 
the irony that sea levels

around Antarctica and Greenland 
may actually go down as the

glaciers melt.

How is that possible.

You know,

this is,

this is quite amazing it another one 
of these obvious in hindsight

inside it's looking pretty recently 
insightful from both us anyway

. Any sort of water surface Rep 
Of in fact commonsense idea of

level since obviously 
water flows downhill.

In fact the FTSE service mission 
with precision from space shows

that that idea down here only.

Modulated by all sorts of things 
like currents and winds of other

factors.

And in particular the vast method 
ice on these grounds.

That's a sufficient gravitational 
attraction to pull the ocean

around them towards them.

And this generates an an up slope in.

He is the sea surface around the 
ice sheets and so it work,

what if you're losing what sort of 
advice billions of tons a life

in that reduces its attraction and 
a bit of a surprise intuition

and nearby streets.

This comes out why the overall effect 
that you put that all into

the global 3 level,

but in fact merely hosting the 
3 level with pregnant fall

considerably more and in fact,

they've only been a few idealized 
computer simulations trying to

put this in.

I think you into countenance does 
provide a little bit of a

stabilizer to to grabbing line retreat 
if 3 we will media actually

doing a relic later is falling.

I should just say there's the bad 
news consequence of local effect

which it means that those who level 
rises more than you might have

expected far away from you know I 
think there are some estimates

that in North America,

you might get 25% more than global 
average the level but when

Northwest.

But what will have to go somewhere.

Right now,

some scientists including the Intergovernmental 
Panel on climate

change suggest total sea level rise 
by 2100 may only be one meter

others think that's a very 
conservative estimate,

we might get that much from Antarctic 
melting alone plus what

comes from the Arctic Roland Warren.

What do you think.

Yeah,

it is you know finally unforgiving 
question the contribution,

particularly from Antarctic ever trauma.

I see.

In general terms and global sea level 
rise the IPCC is as you say

, coming up with numbers of the regardless 
comforted by also have

to come up.

Of course with what they think might 
happen under a whole range of

of efforts and because of 
the immense scrutiny.

The IPCC hands they do put a lot 
of effort into qualifying.

What they mean by being uncertain 
about something and you know you

can go and look at their tables and 
if they say very likely there

meant he was such a such a probability 
percentage but when it came

to Antarctica they they finally 
had to give up on that,

and while I think that everybody 
collapse of these so called

marine sectors of Antarctic ice sheet 
if initiated could make fee

level rise substantially above the 
unlikely range the best they

could do was say this additional 
contribution would not exceed

several tents ultimately tire during 
the 21st century now for be

over weapons from listen carefully 
calibrated on for me in terms

of,

you know several tenths of a meter 
cover the everywhere from you

know 20cm to the best part of a meter.

So this really is the most uncertain 
contribution towards her long

term 3 level prediction things like 
a federal expansion of the

ocean pretty well on the 
controlling terms,

you know,

I think that for various different 
climate warming scenario now

graces of often fairly hard to do 
at least and I thought we were

of the worst that can happen is they 
might eventually old me on,

you know,

one of that sort of analysis 
to Antarctica on Greenland.

So we got a useful worst case scenario,

because it tells you something like 
60 millions feeling harassed,

which is certainly not going 
to happen any time soon,

but it's also not a useful 
you know in member.

Because,

really,

it's so shocking if would rearrange 
civilization altogether if we

eventually get that much but as you say,

we're talking at least in centuries.

You're listening to shock radio 
before the world and.

I'm Alex Smith get all their 
website shock.org.

Don't forget,

or a hot interview with proper garden 
wizard Marjorie Wilde is

still to come.

This is Radio Eco shock were talking 
with Australian Antarctic

expert Dr. Roland Warner another 
complication difficult for

non-scientist Dr. awarded to understand 
is the prediction that

snowfall on Antarctica may actually 
increase with climate change.

And even that may help speed 
glacier movement to the sea.

Can you talk to us about that please.

Yes,

I think we certainly expect that 
the most think is not yet

receiving the sort of squandering 
warming that's been so dramatic

in the Antarctic Peninsula.

And that may be partly due to 
slowly fighting other thing.

From the of these on hold in Antarctica,

which has tended to have an influence 
on on Antarctic climate but

if the it image arises.

It's still going to be very cold,

but clearly warmer air can hold more 
moisture and everybody does

expect that that's not 
fault when Antarctica.

We will increase and part seems 
studies that suggest that that

itself accelerates the 4 out of the ocean.

I think that 30 increased 
melting of ourselves.

It is likely to be enough.

I'm eager think in that some 
of the studies the need.

You know it.

20 years ago so that you know if 
you think it's going to take out

a thousand years to establish some 
new equilibrium then with do

you get 2 meters or 3 meters of 
sea level rise from Antarctica

would depend on whether you had 
factored in this compensating

effect on of high rates of 
snowfall in Antarctica,

because obviously so far the Antarctic,

there is really nothing putting feel 
right away in the bank and it

can take understood however that 
you start to flow back so it's

certainly an important 
compensating effect,

but I think the Democratic response 
really driven by the ocean is

going to be that the biggest influence 
on Antarctic trying.

Right.

It's hard for people to 
understand that it's,

it's not that the warming air temperatures 
going to melt he sings

from above,

it's at the hotter ocean reaching 
in is going to weaken them from

below,

isn't it.

The story.

That's certainly what we're seeing,

particularly because some of the 
areas further but changing the

most practically at the moment in 
the area of of Antarctica and so

on in the Pacific Ocean,

in the,

on the I'm this is almost about as 
far south as you can actually

find was.

Before you actually bumping into 
Antarctica and you know it's

there with it.

Temperatures are still well although 
for you think that that we're

seeing these these biggest changes 
and it is one of the places

where we know that when the warm ocean 
currents circulate normally

at some distance around 
Antarctica do manage,

but by virtue of currents and the 
topography of them Continental

Shelf,

the new mines to come into all the 
here and certainly here so that

the,

the power of our ocean water.

Well,

sort of,

that's,

you know the risk for me,

the effect all of warmer air temperature 
at least in the more

northerly parts of Antarctica where 
temperature and from a mill

things on the surface of these ice 
shelves is actually certainly

playing a big role in the rather 
dramatic disintegration over the

matter of a few weeks of a few 
ourselves in the Antarctic

Peninsula.

Back on them.

I mean last century.

Well,

all along we've talked about West 
Antarctica and East Antarctica

as though they were almost separate 
parts of the puzzle.

Are there any generalizations 
you can give us about what is

happening in these 2 halves 
compared to each other.

Yeah,

it's interesting that in some ways 
and they they do fit being

described as if they were 
2 different worlds,

the observational evidence we have 
fallen further Oval Office the

Heisman tactics because we can 
actually directly made the

disappearance of ice from space either 
by seeing the change in the

fall of the ice surface,

telling us that the eye soothing 
cinnamon falling off or by

actually worryingly the from space.

We can tell that within topic is 
where currently mostly action is

overall it is Antarctica,

very little change may be some 
slight overall increase,

although this area around the Tottenham 
place is one of the hot

spot.

Fantastic areas that's the place 
with his most consistent I floss

going on there,

which is what the reasons we have 
interested but so in terms of

the current response.

This seems to be 2 separate worlds.

However,

what we,

realizing as we discussed earlier 
is these parts of East

Antarctica in terms of this very deep 
bedrock well below sea level

channels can anything that out towards 
the new some of that is a

lot more like West Antarctica in 
terms of its setting people

previously thought they could well 
be that it's simply a matter of

the response of the forcing and perhaps 
in East Antarctica in the

future,

we might see phenomenal wing of recognize 
from what we presently 3

West Antarctica.

Dr. Warner are we able to say whether 
in total Antarctica is

losing mass staying the same 
or gaining ice mass.

Yeah,

it's very clearly losing harness 
and there's pretty good evidence

for that rate of losses XL or anything 
that comes from the direct

observation for growing putting 
the icing on on the sky often

turning you know you're so that 
will often with Antarctic it

without weighing flight increases 
a whole stability in East

Antarctica.

The experts think that in maybe another 
year of observations will

be in a better position to sort out 
influence in that process of

seasonal variations,

if you like,

particularly in snowfall,

it's quite impressive.

The talking from space.

You can actually seeing this actually 
isn't very much is at the

scene Greenland in Antarctica,

but you can actually seeing Greenland 
the seasonal arrival of the

big dumps of snow that come in the 
winter and the great a loss of

over the summer,

I mean it's actually that their 
annual cycle quite visible,

you know if I think there is things 
are not quite clear because

things are happening on Holmgren 
Earth's lower scale,

but people I convinced that you know 
cutting observations longer

will allow us through to sort out 
trends without the confusion of

these variations.

Well,

the key question was sea level rises 
always when and we discussed

this a little bit,

but do we have enough science 
yet to really know how much

Antarctica will add to the world's 
oceans during this century.

No,

we don't,

it's actually 2 biggest unknown 
in trying to predict what sea

level to expect and in fact the IPCC 
felt they couldn't even give

you an opinion about how much of the 
response might vary according

to what for the phone global warming 
practical trajectory we we

found ourselves on.

So it's,

it's quite serious on their own and 
the other thing about and how

to his that is a lot of life there 
we finally passed on the fact

that I see is sitting on this this 
well below sea level rock.

One of the other complications several 
areas west Antarctica is

for the paradigm for this.

I guess the better just get a deeper 
and deeper and deeper as you

go towards the interior of the 
ice sheet and so there is a

possibility.

And in fact this part of the marine 
instability there is a

prospect of if the grounding line 
is starting to move inland it'll

just keep on going and it will 
continue to retrieve and you

continue to lose a life until you 
finally managed to heavy rice

sheep catch itself on some bedrock 
features and so on the state of

Alaska have retreat process.

So what sort of year they were centuries.

This is rather uncertain and the 
prospect is good you can keep on

giving and they could keep on giving 
even if we stabilize the

world in some warmer started.

Yes I think NASA so came out 
and said that the process is

unstoppable.

Yes the,

the,

and I think what's happening in this 
I'm I'm simply region with a

couple of them being places they like 
white guys here is they feel

they've done enough on bedrock profiling 
there again using his

high penetrating radar system to 
say they can't see any obvious.

Neil anchor points that would 
stop further retreat,

but has currently started so when 
the IPCC said market get more

civil rights and we can't really 
quantify it if we start to

initiate the citizenry nicely collapse it.

It's possible always seeing the 
first stages and already.

Please tell us about a couple of 
projects the Antarctic climate

and ecosystems Cooperative Research 
Centre has on the go.

Right will be that we just had,

I think the renewed last year so 
we there so that they'll stall

with what we think of the most pressing 
issues even part of the

ecosystem area and so we have a major 
overarching projects on this

ocean driven election of the Antarctic 
ice and Billy always

matters.

We've been talking about tonight.

You know activities range from voyages 
with we had a voyage where

they are right,

that is ice breaker to the front of 
the Tottenham away if you know

, and just this time January where 
they did actually verify the

first time anybody's got this for 
the coming crop of Tottenham.

If I.

Pack I just 5 permanent captain was 
brave enough to try only and

get some maintenance and so we 
do know that the warm water is

actually arriving there at the front 
of the charity and with this

work at just being published.

Well,

I should say time Damon 
Green down from them.

University of Texas in Austin 
we now think that we can the

channels by which water is gonna 
make its way onto the ice.

So,

the problem remains a major 
interest for us,

we've already been doing most circulation 
more studies to try and

explore how the ocean circulation 
moves underneath my shelves and

also how the resulting water 
affects the external,

and now that we've gone an improved 
picture of what the state

underneath the problem looks like,

but will be going back dramas again 
and the big step forward is to

start coupling the dynamics of the 
ice shelves the flow of the

ground and I behind with the ocean 
because on as if your melting

the bottom of changing geometry of 
that that changes were talking

with.

You know he arrives and 
what was living in,

we need to topple assistance together 
eventually that will become

part of in times of system model,

we'll be doing more so they work 
with area geophysical surveys

exploring them prices a bedrock 
and Antarctica we're used to be

that talking on the phone.

Part of the whole planet 
without them person,

which is a the lapels,

and we know what's some of 
these part of Antarctica.

So that work will be continuing and 
we've also got film programs

homely namely myself this is extent 
I think biggest ice shelf in

Antarctica is 3rd largest myself and 
we've had field program there

with oceanographic instruments 
that were deployed by drilling

through nearly a thousand meters 
of of ice shelf and appalling

instruments in the ocean underneath 
enormous find out what's

actually going on in these rather 
the inaccessible parts of the

planet.

You know what hearing you talk,

it almost sounds like we're trying 
to discover some things about

Mars.

You know it's a mile deep beneath the ice,

it's very difficult to peer around,

we,

we don't know a lot of things it.

It's amazing that we're finding 
out as much as we do.

Yeah,

it's.

But we,

we thought that if I cap survey come 
Casey staging of us and say

we don't have a thousand 
kilometers long and,

back home on each flight there,

there was an area where they were,

maybe 2 ground based survey the of 
whole previous 50 years I had

talking exploration and we would 
gather that stay there in an

8-hour flight and Soviet with further 
citing it in there were

still a few places,

which we hope to get to where it.

If you were a 15th century make 
you probably writing here be

dragons vigorous,

we still don't have had detailed 
bedrock there but sadly the map

is is being filming.

From Hobart Tasmania.

We've been talking with Dr. Roland 
C Warner he's a researcher with

Australia's Antarctic climate and 
ecosystems Cooperative Research

Centre Dr. Roland.

Thank you so much for sharing 
your time with us.

I really appreciate it.

There's been a blatant.

I'm Alex Smith reporting for Radio Eco.

We are back after the online grow 
your own food summit with the

organizer Marjorie while Kraft Marjorie 
remind us just once again

where you grow your food in the 
way you operate your homestead

experiments.

No,

I actually I wasn't Central 
Texas and my homestead,

is a resort.

Center dedicated to finding systems 
and developing systems for you

to be able to grow having your own 
food in a backyard cyberspace

and less than an hour a 
day pretty tall order.

But we're working on it.

Last week,

you talked about getting her husband 
and son on board with aqua

panics is it necessary to have everybody 
in your family on board

with this prep gardening style 
right from the get-go.

No,

in fact,

I'd say that the vast.

Majority of of people who will 
consider themselves peppers.

They have a reluctant spouse or 
reluctant children and so they

just you know go and do what they 
do anyway with growing your own

food.

What I would recommend is just get 
started and the family actually

starts to get involved in it,

one of the best ways to get them 
on board is when you're

harvesting.

That's one of the most delightful 
times especially with kids I got

I can give you some of the best 
vegetables to grow for kids.

It'll make can all must be out there 
in your yard treating it like

a snack bar,

you know,

there's lot cherry tomatoes that 
grows so well in the summertime.

Those kids will be out there fighting 
forum and in the cooler

seasons those sugar snap peas are 
delicious were strawberries.

You know,

if you've got some really 
tasty food out there.

Those kids will be out there playing 
with it and that's one way to

get them involved with it without 
it even being proper saying

grain.

Tell us about your Aqua panic set 
up what have you done there.

You know,

we,

we've built one and I believe it's 
like 30 feet long by about 12

feet wide and it has 150 gallon 
fish tank and you know I had

always initially avoided alcoholics 
because it's a little bit high

tech you know it's going to involve 
motor motors and pumps and and

and things like that which actually 
ended up being the attraction

for my husband and my and that's 
the reason they like it is,

it's kinda hard.

I don't even impressed with those systems.

They do require energy.

You know you're gonna be needing 
some solar power wind power or

the electrical grid which is another 
reason we had avoided it

initially we were initially always 
developing our systems for

Ingrid down or open that sustainability 
type of situation,

but we ended up going with this,

I I have to say that it is definitely 
easier to grow food in the

Arc upon access tomorrow.

Our first year of experiments are 
all that way it does require a

little bit more watching for example 
that pump goes out your fish

only have so long before they're 
gonna need oxygen and and die so

it,

it does need a little bit more 
monitoring like that,

but on the other hand,

it really is easier and part of that 
here in Central Texas it was

protected from the wind.

It was protected from extremes 
of heat and cold.

You know the plants just grew better 
the fish created the waste

that will said the plants and 
and it worked really well,

it's a,

it's a good system.

You know it's canvas often closest 
Amin away but it is tricky and

technical as you say I I've 
been avoiding it so far.

Let's talk about perma culture that's 
another major contender for

truly sustainable agriculture have 
you experimented with the food

for and by the way,

what is a food for us.

Well I love food for us and I have 
to say this is my particular

favorite.

Way to grow food.

The idea of a food forces you create 
an area that mimics nature in

that you plant trees and bushes and 
vines and honorable way errors

and every plant in there is edible 
or medicine or beneficial in

some way and if you look at the forest.

A 4th does not need any tending right 
you go to a pristine forest

and the trees,

there they drop their leaves their 
self marching you know they

they've learned how to manage 
the water that comes to them.

Naturally they don't need to be irrigated 
and they often you know

there's still some production of 
food and animals and wildlife

within it.

So what we trying to do is create 
systems like that and then they

get back and try to maybe had its 
with a little bit more benefit

toward us there more investment 
in time getting up and started

because a lot of your fruit and 
nut trees are not gonna start

producing for 5 to 10 years.

But once you get them established 
they're much much less work than

annual gardens.

We all know gardening can help seniors 
maintain their mental and

physical health much longer but eventually 
we may not be able to

handle the heavy work,

how can we set up a garden to keep 
going with very little effort.

Well,

that's it.

Exactly,

that's why food Forrester such and 
it's it's a real retirement

plan,

unlike Social Security,

which we never really know 
if that's come along.

That's going to be a.

So a real retirement plan is going 
to be to play at the food for

store to plant a small orchard right now.

Well,

you've got the strength and energy 
to have that going and then you

know in your later years.

It's a lot easier to just harvest 
apples and it is to be planting

doing all the work of the annual garden.

Let's talk about prepping for past 
side built 2 big raised their

heads out of some years lumber 
but I put a wire lying on the

bottom to keep both the morals of 
seem to love by rich garden soil

. What else can we do to encourage 
passed to stay out of the

garden.

Well,

one thing is to have a more first.

They have really good rich soil 
will help reduce your insect

problems for more than golfers.

Personally,

I have a big problem that we have 
a lot of sand here and I've been

experimenting with using castor beans 
as a mole repellent and of

and I go forward talent and so far 
it seems to be working very

well in fact Castro used to be 
known as as no go for plant.

One of the realities of having beautiful 
food source like that as

you are going to need to have some 
fencing or some protection from

everything else that loves to eat 
your food like raccoons or

squirrels or rabbits.

So a good fence around your 
garden is just a reality.

Well,

our about 7 feet high and then we 
dangle little pieces of cloth

and colored foil on the top of that 
to keep the deer from jumping

in.

But for the rest we always planned 
a little extra for all the

creatures that are gonna 
eat out of your garden.

Whether you like it or not.

That's a very good practice we rely 
very heavily on 2 dogs to do a

large part of the protection 
from the predators here,

but one of the Dodgers' even really 
good at spotting overhead

aerial hawks and Barking and letting 
everybody know when the Hawks

are nearby and I find them invaluable 
they they work all night

they mostly sleep all day.

I don't see them very much because 
I give them the butchering

scraps from when we do butchering 
and then they offered just get

whatever table scraps.

We don't need and then they they 
find what they can you know the

bigger catcher rabbit here and there,

so they don't really require a lot 
of input and they do a lot of

work.

When I was doing part time 
firming in eastern Canada.

The only chemical are used as wrote 
known it's made from ground-up

roots of a South American plant and 
Robert rodeo used it I had to

use it for the Colorado potato beetle 
if you have a big planning a

potatoes.

We had the couple of acres,

there's no way to squash 
all those bugs by hand.

What do you think.

You know,

that's that's a lot of work to manage 
a couple of caterer this you

know we all need to be used as much 
organic processors as possible

the classic thing was something like 
a couple of acres of potatoes

is to pay the kids.

It used to be a penny bugs and you'd 
have them go through the rows

and then they dump out bugs in the 
account and then you pay them

that used to be the he to get rid 
of the goods but Colorado potato

beetle.

Could still work today if it gets 
a neighborhood kids going well

last week.

You talked about not needing refrigeration 
or freezers that we

could just munch away through the 
fresh food season but I have to

admit,

there are times when we got so much 
food more that we could give

away trade even that we needed to 
freeze some at least until we

could catch up to our canning 
and drying I like adding a

dehydration they don't depend 
on the grid staying up.

What about you.

I do too.

As I'm not a huge proponent of 
that and fermentation also as

another as another method of food storage,

by the way at the homegrown food summit.

We have one presentation by Kendra 
Lynn who'll be showing you how

to do water about caning and how to 
do pressure canning and what I

love about it is,

you know,

as some people have a fear of those 
big pressure because they are

these big intimidating things and 
there's the stories of them

blowing up and stuff,

right.

There's no longer a concern about 
they've built them there now

face.

But when you see Kendra.

Who is this flight and beautiful 
woman just handling that

machinery go I can do it and we also 
have already Hamann is going

to be doing a whole thing on how 
to how to preserve food by

fermentation as well as the health 
benefits turns up at that

fermented foods really help your 
gut bacteria and help you to

digest a lot better.

So some of these techniques are actually 
I can help increase the

nutrition content of the 
food you're eating.

Yeah warranties real gem we've 
had on radio shock and I still

check out her blog once a week and 
it's important to keep up with

that one of my goals is 
to build a solar dryer.

Do you have one.

We do I used a model based on its 
side believe it's Appalachian

State University created this model 
there's there's lots of other

ones out there and it has worked really 
really well now we do tend

to be a bit drier here in Texas,

but I found that that model even 
worked well during the summer's

the times when we had a wet period 
that is definitely a technique

for the poor on preserving 
food that's a very useful.

Farmers around here used to throw 
their pitches up on a Hot Tin

Roof on one of their shepherds and 
solar dried them that way and

it did work.

Now let me ask you do you let 
chickens interior garden.

On rare occasions I do.

One example was one time my sweet 
potato showed up with these

strange looking little beetles 
that had a shiny.

It was almost what by chrome shell.

I have no idea what they were,

they were and alien Beatles.

You know,

normally when I see an insect 
outbreak like that I think

immediately that my plants are 
stressed and they need some

nutrients you know some some some 
sort of nutrient thing and I'll

try to get them,

you know,

liquid seaweed or some homemade 
compost or something.

But in the short term immediate 
what I do that.

The chickens in there and chickens 
are naturally insect they love

insects first but I watch them innocent 
of their gun getting all

the insects then you wanna kick'em

out of the garden because then they'll 
start scratching up the

rest of your pricing ads.

I do,

they will scratch about so aren't 
that after all your YouTube

videos your best selling grow your 
own groceries course that you

hear from gardeners all over the world.

Do you.

We don't know and we have a very 
active network of people they

contribute.

Things that they're discovering 
in there that that they're

learning and we're very excited 
about that and want to develop

that further well actually creating 
also a network of places just

like our place where we're doing 
research on different ways to

grow food other places that are doing 
that are starting to become

network together and sharing results 
and making it available to

them to everybody really I feel Alex 
this solution is gonna come

from you and for me and from,

you know I mean anybody even hardly 
an example Leslie Leslie

Parsons works still works full 
time and she only has a small

garden.

She's very passionate about Squire 
should about 2 hundred square

foot garden and so she's been doing 
all these experiments were

squash she's come up with a couple 
of varieties that are resistant

of the squash vine borer which is 
a horrible problem for people

and squash is such a good 
important calorie crop.

So you know she's only doing this 
part time in a 200ft² garden.

She has done really,

really valuable research on of 
a crop that's resistant to the

squash vine borer which is hugely 
important to the rest of us

she's publishing that work on our 
our blog and making it available

to other people and creating a 
whole discussion about it now.

Other people are trying it and duplicating 
our work and getting

feedback to her.

This is how it's gonna happen.

Monsanto is not here to help us,

the USDA is not here to help us.

Unfortunately our own government.

While it does try.

It's actually still we we controlled 
by the big companies.

This is gonna be a problem that can 
only be solved by you and me

and by individuals and neighbors 
working together and that's the

whole reason for for what I do is 
working at this grassroots level

of coming up with real solutions 
for you to create your own food

and medicine.

What would you say the number one 
concern people razor or the

block that prevents them in their 
own minds from getting going on

growing their own groceries.

I think most people think that it's 
gonna be a lot of work and

they're not going to get much 
production out of it.

It's also were also such an instant 
gratification such high if it

take my son can with barbed work 
on a guitar and look at the Xbox

and like in 5 minutes.

He's a rock star okay with with that 
then and I just doesn't have

. And in the garden things take 
2 to 3 months to mature.

So it's adjusting to life style that's 
actually more human scale

is a pretty big block.

I would say though,

that's probably one of the things 
you're most Hungarian for in

your life.

You know it's strange a start following 
your heart into something

as you did with personal food growing 
and I could also call that

personal liberty,

then you teacher communicate you 
connect a normal suddenly you

Marjorie while Kraft have 
become kind of a,

a one-woman movement on your own.

Isn't it strange.

It is it,

it's only a review as about this week.

15 years ago our view to told me 
what I will girl what I'd be

doing Iacocca where have no no no,

or you know you know life 
is amazing adventures a.

Well,

I want to take your DVD course what's 
in it and why does it cost.

Well know said it's it's 2 DVDs 
and then it includes a CD-ROM

that's a whole library of documents 
to support it and I,

one,

it's basically like me taken you 
by the hand and taking you

through my homestead here and showing 
you how I grow food and I'm

like,

you know.

Here's the water tanks were set 
up to catch rainwater and oh by

the way we overbuilt it 
it was a huge mistake.

Please don't make it this big and 
then he a place where we started

a garden and here's another place 
we started a garden and these

are the reasons why those gardens 
totally sucked in failed.

But here's where we put our other 
garden and this is working,

and here's the gardening method 
that years because this is the

most efficient one and I've 
tried all these other ones,

but this is the one that I really 
like and here's where I keep the

rabbits and I put them right here 
next to the garden because

outweigh their fertility can help 
me and it's real simple and easy

to do this.

This way,

and here's my flock of chickens 
and here's the reason I have'em

like this and here's the dogs and oh,

look at this is the size.

And you really need to keep this 
out of the garden right and

here's my orchard and all the 
experiments with the trees.

We've done.

And this is why these died in of lived in,

you know I just take you and show 
you everything that I go through

ND and in even the maturing 
process viewers how you,

but your rabbit and here's how you 
butchered chicken India is what

you do with all the parts 
of those animals.

That's it.

It's really,

you know to 2 videos that they chose 
you all those components and

then again that library 
the resource library.

So you know I talk about a rainwater 
collection system.

We have a whole rainwater collection 
system e-book in their own

how to how to build one.

I talk about you know butchering a rabbit.

And then we have a whole article 
on how to channel rabbit hides

that we'll be able to use those effectively 
or you know we've got

5 different PDF different ways to 
compost fertility so important.

So that's what it's,

it's all about,

it's a grow your own groceries.com 
and its$37

for the 4th but I tell you what I'd 
really recommend you go to the

home-grown food summit and watch 
that presentation I have on how

to grow half year on food in your 
backyard in less than an hour a

day.

Take a look at that and say you know 
that'll really inspire you do

that you could do this,

you can get their systems up and 
running in about 6 months and be

producing half your own food in 
less than an hour a day by next

year.

I'd love to do it now Marjorie what 
will your next project be or

is it too soon to tell.

Well,

we've got a lot of irons in the 
fire and after this summit,

we're going to look at what 
will have the most impact,

to be able to have more home-grown 
food on every table,

we're looking at doing some stuff 
in partnership with Mike Adams

of the natural news and possibly 
working on some developing some

programs to get local food into schools.

We've got a whole,

you know I don't also developing 
that network of research

organizations.

There's a lot on the table,

we haven't yet figured that out.

We've been talking with Marjorie 
while craft of grow your own

groceries.com her DVD Guide to Growing 
in your own backyard is a

bestseller,

her free YouTube videos and growing 
your own food a really popular

and Marjorie recently organized 
the biggest online summit

dedicated to growing homegrown food 
I'll be putting links to all

of that in my shell blog equal 
shot.info Marjorie.

Thank you so much for helping all of us.

Alex.

Thanks for having they are.

I really appreciate it.

I'm Alex Smith reporting 
for Radio Eco Shah.

I'm dropping my own garden right 
now with raised beds,

a better compost bin nets for the 
raspberries and 80 inches of

mulch all around.

Find all our past programs as MP3 
downloads at our website eco

shark.org.

Don't forget to follow up on links 
for this week show in my weekly

blog published Wednesday that it shock.info 
or listen to the sound

card page had sown cloud.com/Radio 
Eco shock.

I'm a locksmith.

Thank you for listening and I hope 
we will get together again next