This is radio.
If you go shopping with.
This week on Radio Eco shark.
We're going to the end of the earth.
It's a feature-length interview
about new science the chills
Antarctica is melting.
I guarantee you will read headlines
and see amazing video news
from the science were discovering
this week sea levels will rise
around the planet for centuries
reshaping the coastlines and
civilization,
then we'll finish up with the return
of Marjorie Wilde craft with
more tips on growing your own groceries.
It's all food for thought and action,
I'm Alex Smith,
the journey begins.
There's a lot of action in Antarctica
and that can bring changes
all over the world.
Here to discuss recent sciences
Dr. Roland C warmer.
He is a researcher with the Antarctic
climate and ecosystems
Cooperative Research Centre at the
University of Tasmania Tasmania
is the closest Australian state to
Antarctica Dr. Warner welcome
to Radio Eco shock.
With him.
Well,
thank you for joining us for an update
on this frozen world at the
South Pole.
First of all what parts of Australia
are closest to Antarctica and
what claims does your country
have on that continent.
Okay.
Well,
I'm here in Tasmania of an
island state of Australia.
Half of the Australian mainland
and well I thought still some
distance away to our south there
are only a few small islands in
the middle of the Southern Ocean,
between Australia and Antarctica.
However,
as you alluded Australia does have
a territorial claim to a large
piece of the Antarctic,
but 42% of it,
to be precise now various countries
establish these claims in an
age of heroic exploration.
You know putting out flags and claiming
things in the name of if
you know,
typically,
your moniker your state
with the done thing.
In those days and these claims exist
and some of them actually
tend to overlap,
particularly around the most successful
part then tactic in that.
Think of the Antarctic Peninsula
points up to South America and
one big think there isn't actually
coined by anyone at all.
But these claims are on
ice and if you will.
Under their party.
Treaty which was established in
the 1950s and it's that treaty
that governs how people
behave in Antarctica.
These days,
whether they have claims to particular
pieces of turf all but I
will not.
And have you been there.
Yes I think twice.
I think of 3 summer seasons
with heat strain in US,
British,
French collaborative project this
imaginatively called ice cap.
This is a bit of a mouthful stands
for investigating Christ very
evolution through collaborative 2
physical profiling and what that
means is that we have a whole range
of instruments on an aircraft
, the fact of the rejuvenated DC
3 genuine World War II vintage
and we fly for hours and hours.
They are the ice sheet measuring
many different things and I'm
sure we will discuss today
using that aircraft.
So I was a Casey station which is
one of 3 Australian basis on
continent itself that's due south
of Western Australia and I've
got there.
In this modern era either by flying
directly there in a jet plane
from here in Havana to the runaway
on the ice cap behind the
station or rather more long way
around changing planes that.
US they with murder when flying for
hours and hours allow you know
ski equipped Hercules to land at
and on one occasion I've come
home on our ice breaker which
took 7 considered try.
It's a giant place.
I mean it is a real continent
now in a shocking bit of news
Antarctica just experienced the 2
hardest days ever recorded there
, namely 63.5 degrees Fahrenheit,
or 17.5° C and that was that.
The Argentinian Esperanza Base
on the Antarctic Peninsula.
I've heard that was warmer than the
temperature in Britain on the
same day in late March.
Is that just a freak occurrence
or do you think Antarctica is
warming.
Yeah,
I don't say that being involved with
the phone day here at home.
It's not part of either or outside
the Antarctic Peninsula.
But think you're Antarctica pointing
South America is an area of
Antarctica that shows some of the
greatest climate warming of
recent years.
For the whole planet,
perhaps 5° Celsius warmer
over the last 50 years,
according to the British Antarctic Survey.
So it's consistent with that sort
of situation that you're going
to keep getting record breaking maximum
temperatures and that of
course one hot days where there
while the trend in hot days who
climbed into it was not a theorist
of previous record was only 0.4
degree Celsius lower that was back
in 1961 and it was even later
in the year as a month later was in
April that's so it's only anti
think the reason is warming.
And so when I 3 state holidays.
You know,
so not a freak occurrence.
All right,
well,
let's turn to a new scientific paper
you were directly involved in
the title is ocean access to a
cavity beneath glacier in East
Antarctica.
We need to frame that a bit.
Obviously,
where's the tartan glacier
and how big is it.
Yes,
certainly.
The Congress is the largest growth
you know East Antarctica.
It came to split Antarctic are
up by which in the world,
we're looking at.
After all,
and I think you know everything
is sort of you know and so we
don't particularly is parts weaving
between the Greenwich Meridian
and the line below Africa
Australia so the Congo.
If you can fight on almost exactly
the opposite side and
Antarctica so less brands when looking
at about 116 he strongly
too.
So almost directly below
the city of Perth.
In the capital city of Western Australia.
He took a very large grace period
driving 540,000 square
kilometers of East Antarctica.
He was like,
I think that is being more than
twice the size of for you.
Australian state of Victoria for North
American audience audiences
might be more helpful to say that
somewhat more than twice the
area of all the Great Lakes put together.
And that's big.
Yeah.
Yes,
okay.
And so just food to fill out is the
story this 70 billion tons of
ice flows out of that quite you know
every year that's amazingly
about the flow rate of Niagara Falls,
but obviously it's moving slightly,
but on a very grand scale.
Is that the amount that actually
reaches the sea every year.
Yep,
that's,
that's what that that out of ice
that you can collect in half a
million square kilometers,
I should say that they are itself
is more than 30km wide at the
front considerably stand and Niagara
Falls and its 200 meters
thick.
So there's a lot of life on the moon.
Well,
you've hit something that's a little
confusing to some of us we
have sea ice which doesn't directly
add to sea level rise.
We have melting from land ice like
Greenland which does add to the
sea level rise and then in the Arctic.
There's only a couple small ice shelves
left attached to Canadian
polar islands but in Antarctica
seems confusing,
could you just give us a quick update
on the relationship between
sea ice ice shelves and
land based glaciers.
Yeah,
this is certainly something which
could use a lot of people.
Yet the only turning to do it through
water or flowing into the
sea.
That could affect sea level rises.
Obviously I that's currently not
floating on the ocean because
courtesy of the year old Archimedes
we have you know the guy
that's floating on the ocean when
it melts well simply filling the
volume.
It was previously displacing.
So that's not to say that the melting
of things like ice shelves
which is.
Got if your that the floating
on the ocean.
That's not to say that won't have
an impact on the earth's system
because it's only going to fresh
of top layers of the ocean that
in terms of the level rises ground
a life like Greenland and like
for little ice caps are still remain
you where you know Arctic and
now graces around the world and
a sleeping giant in the lift,
which perhaps is not fleeting Antarctica
that's where think was
going to come from.
I would like to fall out
of the on story as well.
Think about feel it is this is the
host of surface freezing and
it's around Antarctica and in the Arctic.
It's one of the big seasonal changes
in the Earth's climate system
around Antarctica in the wintertime.
The area where the ocean surface
is predominantly covered by why
such been frozen over the ocean itself.
That's almost double for
signs of that big,
white pants down of that
the part of the globe.
And when that sea ice is forming
the Fiat itself is relatively
fresh from the salt water on that
they could become smug Saltire
and wipe a different story for one
we want to tell today that's
actually what drives a lot of the
deep global ocean circulation
further things would happen with
sea ice around Antarctica.
We were fixing the the deep political
be overturning circulation
alcohol plant.
The progression of ourselves shelves
and the ice sheet is also an
interesting one.
The melting away all the changes
in ourselves don't directly
affect civil rights of a but there
are still Ferraris something
for the gatekeepers particularly
for Antarctica in terms of the
rate at which ice flows from a grounded
ice into the ocean and we
believe in effect changes in the
ice shelves are going to be that
the major drivers in changing the
dynamics of the whole why she
could phone they do play a
big role in in the future.
Sea level.
It's been compared to pulling
the cork out of a bottle.
Yes,
all you can think of it as a keystone
you know basically you have
a big Ice shelf you know talking
of the biggest ones are very
firmly professionally in very
large but that would in fact
probably be called fees if they weren't.
Follow us and the presence of
the ice shelf there provides
retiring stress that's holding back
ice which is flowing typically
I flew in Antarctica is concentrated
into major quite fast moving
out late.
Well,
if you know so I streams and it's
quite focused for likely to top
the lot of mentioning before and
often is channeled into these
very being ourselves and so if you
do something to change the ice
shelf.
You're going to do something to change
the whole balance of forces
from that's that's restraining the
writer was that ice flows into
the ocean.
It seems parts of Antarctica are
actually below sea level.
Is that correct and what would that
continent look like without
the ice cap.
Yes,
that's certainly true again that
East West Antarctica dividing
line is is perhaps a useful
one here for a long time.
We've known by probing through to
see how thick the ice is and how
far down that is bedrock
company we've known.
There's a lot of the West.
And I think I see is standing on
the sea floor maybe half a mile
or more still needles but
deep and that includes,
actually the,
the the summit agreed to between
I suppose westwards to the Rafah
itself and I thought flows eastwards
towards you know a month of
sitting in around towards South America.
So if I cheat hadn't developed there.
This would just the ocean one could
go to work well could go
sailing and what developed
in the last 2 years,
partly as a result of major aerial
survey that we've done with ice
cap project is we have better defined it.
The extensive areas of East Antarctica
are also seeking on bedrock
that deep below sea level.
In this case,
said that turned out because I feel
even sicker than we thought in
some places,
it's 2 miles thick and in particular,
we've been exploring the aurora Basin,
which is a vast area in the catchment
of Tottenham life here and
we heard inside the bedrock channels
that connect that deep cover
to the coast of of the aurora based
around the world so called
Wilkes.
Sub-glacial basin which is
immediately to its east.
If the law Michael submarine
part of of eastern our state
convinced that we removed
all the are with that,
I think it would simply become a
collection of islands you could
fail from the Pacific to the Atlantic
without having to go past
Cape Horn and he can talk,
it wouldn't have seen major itself,
it might even writers see.
And so until they new research
done by a team,
we didn't really understand how warmer
waters could undermine this
tartan glacier.
How does it work.
And how did you do the science
to find this out.
Yeah,
the,
the way that works is that will
be crucial question for getting
melting of ourselves and it's
changing the follow.
Ground a life behind used to working
out is the warm ocean water
nearby and more importantly all
the pathways by which it can
circulated to weigh up all the
continental shelf and kind of
actually getting into these cavities
underneath the ice shelves.
They have much in the time left,
you can see how deep the ocean is
if you fire up and down with on
you know shit,
but it's very hard to work out
what's the geometry of the sea
floor underneath.
Maybe one of needing 2 kilometers of
I now Wesley serving aircraft reviews
have a radar system that can
see right through to the base for
the iPhone and can even see lot
of internal structure through
the life as well.
We also have some magnetometers to
try and figure out what sort of
character and actually underlying
the ICC most importantly for
this work,
we had a very sense the gravity
money before long we mention my
new variations in the strength of
local gravity I'm flying very
near the surface and very slowly.
Obviously it's very maybe 140 knots,
these is ideal for that sort of survey.
You know they mean you have to
fit now and there's a lot of
detailed work to figure out how
those tiny variations in the
strength of work or gravity can be
translated into what death of
ice and water a raucous directly
below your 5 track so I right I
can't penetrate seawater water.
So we don't see the bottom of an
icy so we only 3 the bedrock
where the ice is on the ground.
But this gravity days are allowed
us to map is inaccessible
Welshman cavities underneath ourselves
and indeed to map the
seafloor off the coast.
There were often see Astra meant ships
from getting in and so what
we've been able to do is to map out
the shape of bedrock beneath
this floating terminus of both
the problem crisis around a
neighboring ourself called the Moscow
University herself and the
most serious finding is that there
are some deepwater channel that
me open ocean to the charity and
this includes a previously
completely unknown Persia logical pathway.
If you like another channel,
it increases the prospect that what
war can circulate into this
cavity and maybe if the temperature
of the water changes then the
melting which is already quite
extensive and therefore the
dynamics of the system will change.
And if you know the story ideas
or thoughts on something you've
heard contacted us can radio an
equal shot of Darfur and that's
radio equal shot and orgy.
West you were list.
Going to Radio Eco shock I'm Alex
Smith with Australian scientist
Rulon C Warner Rowland,
can we expect any measurable sea
level rise from the Tartan
glacier complex say in this century.
Yes we can in we're already seeing
some small contribution to sea
level rise and I'm not sure of that
anybody's total all I have.
Because the of us you know crisis
dream that forms the life here
is actually.
Getting thinner near the coast in
fact surface there has been in
recent years and have a few years,
they said.
It's been dropping by maybe Vermeer
and a half per year.
So this is in fact innocent parties,
one of the hot spots where they
definitely ice loss in terms of
what will happen in the
rest of the century.
We now know that it's possible to
get water in there and dynamics
of the top of the person says that
this already some considerable
melting going on there.
We don't really know in detail how
future climate high increase
that supply and what the consequent
transmission of that affect
but level rise would be,
but it's certainly anything parking.
It's the place to wants went the
timescale is centuries all of
with a little more we don't
quite know them,
but if you people are taking
this very seriously.
Harris,
perhaps in the fantastic haunts.
To spend a lot of talk between scientists
about the importance of
the grounding line,
what is that.
Yes.
The Grammy moments probably really
more bizarre and it is winnable
and Gracie actually starts to to
go afloat whenever we just a
scuffle what event.
I think that I think to be really
on the sea floor and as its
forces towards the Mars and eventually
there comes a point where
it simply going to go off white
given direction of life.
Well,
it probably would be better if
it was called the underground
entwined.
One of the flotation line,
it's important because it's the place
where suddenly the base of
the ice sheet is not protected
by by being on the ground and
suddenly the possibility of wish
and driven melting the UMP
commences and I should say that
it's again something we've only
learned in the last 2 decades
that near these crowning line
somewhere often the ice is very deep
here in Miami Tottenham we're
talking about a transition point
that's probably a mile below sea
level.
The the the melting even is grounding
aren't these 10s of meters
year maybe 15 years here.
And given that the water was doing
that and they'll think it still
by by any swimmers stand I'm
very close to freezing.
It's likely that this is an extremely
thing to be part of of the
climate system.
So that's the first thing that's
important about the grounding.
On the second thing that's
important is this,
particularly in some configurations
of the bedrock these grounding
lines themselves my move.
So it's not just a matter of bringing
more iced up to her.
You know my fixed gaze and then having
to follow through their and
and and they'll it's not possible
that the grounding itself will
migrate inland reducing the 5 on
the ground and the high street
and transmitting these changes in
the forces of the even further
upstream.
We'll sea level rises.
The real wildcard when we think
about the impact of Antarctic
melting I've just gone through a
paper by lead author Fernando
Apollo titled volume loss from
Antarctic ice shelves is
accelerating.
Is it just the ice shelves or
is ice loss from Antarctica
increasing and at a faster rate.
Do we know.
Yeah,
I do this comes back to that.
The point we were.
This guy thing you know you know that
these guys have done a great
job in trying to improve our understanding
about what's happening
to ice shelves previously we had
quite good measurements swimmer
quite precise either of you sort of
that was flying in space for a
few years showing that these ice
shelves of getting home and I'm
really hard problem because given
look I shelf it's floating.
If you see half a meter change
in the surface height of the
fighting are so often means that
he lost 5 meters ice from the
wire what they've done here,
he said.
While at 5-year record is is rather
short and some of the longest
recall that's available actually heavenly.
And I think he is from some writer
satellites that were measuring
the height and ice shelves and so
they've been able to conclude
that ice shelves are certainly on
the whole it so they're losing
which is actually slightly fresh
link the Antarctic coastal
erosion but because beginning Feb.
They are also likely reducing this
restraining force they have on
the high street and in fact they
are when they see the biggest
changes in West Antarctica,
in those places where there out
like have been observed to be
speeding up,
so it's only important and it's
important in terms of what we,
what we think is one of the controllers
of Chinese in the ICC and
they level contributions from the itself.
In a comment on that article,
one of the scientists Lori
pad been expressed.
There's a lot of uncertainty about
what will happen on Antarctica
as the world climate changes.
In fact,
he said.
Quote it is plausible that even if
the Earth's average temperature
increases effect on ocean currents
around Antarctica might
actually work against Antarctic ice
sheet melting and he goes on
to say that that past a records
may not tell us a lot because
we're changing the climate so fast
compared to what happened in
past times what do you
think about all that.
Well,
it's true that one,
one has to be careful about he was
financial planners tell you
part the performance is guaranteed
a future performance,
but with changing the composition
of the atmosphere,
and so he's corrective driver for
changing climate is no longer be
the Milinkevich the so called ice
age cycle I do those changes
were pretty dramatic in terms of
sea level rise 20,000 years ago
when was great Hemisphere ice sheets
and decayed but certainly
we're forcing system a lot faster
around them any natural forcing
that's these apply I'd be a little
surprised if it was actually
going to have to work against I see
my thing on the whole the deep
ocean,
he's already warming and you've
only got to warm water a little
bit for it to carry a lot of heat
campaign turns away he can be
carried by changes in air temperature.
So I think that the changing dynamic
response is going to be quite
high and that's so hard to see who
we can avoid conveying that
don't want to really high shelves
and then by weakening ourselves
increase some nice discharge
from Antarctica.
It's only warmer air temperatures
will generate some higher
snowfall that it's not really clear
that that can dominate the
sort of exhilaration the life
and we've already seen.
And Lori tab and also talked about
the irony that sea levels
around Antarctica and Greenland
may actually go down as the
glaciers melt.
How is that possible.
You know,
this is,
this is quite amazing it another one
of these obvious in hindsight
inside it's looking pretty recently
insightful from both us anyway
. Any sort of water surface Rep
Of in fact commonsense idea of
level since obviously
water flows downhill.
In fact the FTSE service mission
with precision from space shows
that that idea down here only.
Modulated by all sorts of things
like currents and winds of other
factors.
And in particular the vast method
ice on these grounds.
That's a sufficient gravitational
attraction to pull the ocean
around them towards them.
And this generates an an up slope in.
He is the sea surface around the
ice sheets and so it work,
what if you're losing what sort of
advice billions of tons a life
in that reduces its attraction and
a bit of a surprise intuition
and nearby streets.
This comes out why the overall effect
that you put that all into
the global 3 level,
but in fact merely hosting the
3 level with pregnant fall
considerably more and in fact,
they've only been a few idealized
computer simulations trying to
put this in.
I think you into countenance does
provide a little bit of a
stabilizer to to grabbing line retreat
if 3 we will media actually
doing a relic later is falling.
I should just say there's the bad
news consequence of local effect
which it means that those who level
rises more than you might have
expected far away from you know I
think there are some estimates
that in North America,
you might get 25% more than global
average the level but when
Northwest.
But what will have to go somewhere.
Right now,
some scientists including the Intergovernmental
Panel on climate
change suggest total sea level rise
by 2100 may only be one meter
others think that's a very
conservative estimate,
we might get that much from Antarctic
melting alone plus what
comes from the Arctic Roland Warren.
What do you think.
Yeah,
it is you know finally unforgiving
question the contribution,
particularly from Antarctic ever trauma.
I see.
In general terms and global sea level
rise the IPCC is as you say
, coming up with numbers of the regardless
comforted by also have
to come up.
Of course with what they think might
happen under a whole range of
of efforts and because of
the immense scrutiny.
The IPCC hands they do put a lot
of effort into qualifying.
What they mean by being uncertain
about something and you know you
can go and look at their tables and
if they say very likely there
meant he was such a such a probability
percentage but when it came
to Antarctica they they finally
had to give up on that,
and while I think that everybody
collapse of these so called
marine sectors of Antarctic ice sheet
if initiated could make fee
level rise substantially above the
unlikely range the best they
could do was say this additional
contribution would not exceed
several tents ultimately tire during
the 21st century now for be
over weapons from listen carefully
calibrated on for me in terms
of,
you know several tenths of a meter
cover the everywhere from you
know 20cm to the best part of a meter.
So this really is the most uncertain
contribution towards her long
term 3 level prediction things like
a federal expansion of the
ocean pretty well on the
controlling terms,
you know,
I think that for various different
climate warming scenario now
graces of often fairly hard to do
at least and I thought we were
of the worst that can happen is they
might eventually old me on,
you know,
one of that sort of analysis
to Antarctica on Greenland.
So we got a useful worst case scenario,
because it tells you something like
60 millions feeling harassed,
which is certainly not going
to happen any time soon,
but it's also not a useful
you know in member.
Because,
really,
it's so shocking if would rearrange
civilization altogether if we
eventually get that much but as you say,
we're talking at least in centuries.
You're listening to shock radio
before the world and.
I'm Alex Smith get all their
website shock.org.
Don't forget,
or a hot interview with proper garden
wizard Marjorie Wilde is
still to come.
This is Radio Eco shock were talking
with Australian Antarctic
expert Dr. Roland Warner another
complication difficult for
non-scientist Dr. awarded to understand
is the prediction that
snowfall on Antarctica may actually
increase with climate change.
And even that may help speed
glacier movement to the sea.
Can you talk to us about that please.
Yes,
I think we certainly expect that
the most think is not yet
receiving the sort of squandering
warming that's been so dramatic
in the Antarctic Peninsula.
And that may be partly due to
slowly fighting other thing.
From the of these on hold in Antarctica,
which has tended to have an influence
on on Antarctic climate but
if the it image arises.
It's still going to be very cold,
but clearly warmer air can hold more
moisture and everybody does
expect that that's not
fault when Antarctica.
We will increase and part seems
studies that suggest that that
itself accelerates the 4 out of the ocean.
I think that 30 increased
melting of ourselves.
It is likely to be enough.
I'm eager think in that some
of the studies the need.
You know it.
20 years ago so that you know if
you think it's going to take out
a thousand years to establish some
new equilibrium then with do
you get 2 meters or 3 meters of
sea level rise from Antarctica
would depend on whether you had
factored in this compensating
effect on of high rates of
snowfall in Antarctica,
because obviously so far the Antarctic,
there is really nothing putting feel
right away in the bank and it
can take understood however that
you start to flow back so it's
certainly an important
compensating effect,
but I think the Democratic response
really driven by the ocean is
going to be that the biggest influence
on Antarctic trying.
Right.
It's hard for people to
understand that it's,
it's not that the warming air temperatures
going to melt he sings
from above,
it's at the hotter ocean reaching
in is going to weaken them from
below,
isn't it.
The story.
That's certainly what we're seeing,
particularly because some of the
areas further but changing the
most practically at the moment in
the area of of Antarctica and so
on in the Pacific Ocean,
in the,
on the I'm this is almost about as
far south as you can actually
find was.
Before you actually bumping into
Antarctica and you know it's
there with it.
Temperatures are still well although
for you think that that we're
seeing these these biggest changes
and it is one of the places
where we know that when the warm ocean
currents circulate normally
at some distance around
Antarctica do manage,
but by virtue of currents and the
topography of them Continental
Shelf,
the new mines to come into all the
here and certainly here so that
the,
the power of our ocean water.
Well,
sort of,
that's,
you know the risk for me,
the effect all of warmer air temperature
at least in the more
northerly parts of Antarctica where
temperature and from a mill
things on the surface of these ice
shelves is actually certainly
playing a big role in the rather
dramatic disintegration over the
matter of a few weeks of a few
ourselves in the Antarctic
Peninsula.
Back on them.
I mean last century.
Well,
all along we've talked about West
Antarctica and East Antarctica
as though they were almost separate
parts of the puzzle.
Are there any generalizations
you can give us about what is
happening in these 2 halves
compared to each other.
Yeah,
it's interesting that in some ways
and they they do fit being
described as if they were
2 different worlds,
the observational evidence we have
fallen further Oval Office the
Heisman tactics because we can
actually directly made the
disappearance of ice from space either
by seeing the change in the
fall of the ice surface,
telling us that the eye soothing
cinnamon falling off or by
actually worryingly the from space.
We can tell that within topic is
where currently mostly action is
overall it is Antarctica,
very little change may be some
slight overall increase,
although this area around the Tottenham
place is one of the hot
spot.
Fantastic areas that's the place
with his most consistent I floss
going on there,
which is what the reasons we have
interested but so in terms of
the current response.
This seems to be 2 separate worlds.
However,
what we,
realizing as we discussed earlier
is these parts of East
Antarctica in terms of this very deep
bedrock well below sea level
channels can anything that out towards
the new some of that is a
lot more like West Antarctica in
terms of its setting people
previously thought they could well
be that it's simply a matter of
the response of the forcing and perhaps
in East Antarctica in the
future,
we might see phenomenal wing of recognize
from what we presently 3
West Antarctica.
Dr. Warner are we able to say whether
in total Antarctica is
losing mass staying the same
or gaining ice mass.
Yeah,
it's very clearly losing harness
and there's pretty good evidence
for that rate of losses XL or anything
that comes from the direct
observation for growing putting
the icing on on the sky often
turning you know you're so that
will often with Antarctic it
without weighing flight increases
a whole stability in East
Antarctica.
The experts think that in maybe another
year of observations will
be in a better position to sort out
influence in that process of
seasonal variations,
if you like,
particularly in snowfall,
it's quite impressive.
The talking from space.
You can actually seeing this actually
isn't very much is at the
scene Greenland in Antarctica,
but you can actually seeing Greenland
the seasonal arrival of the
big dumps of snow that come in the
winter and the great a loss of
over the summer,
I mean it's actually that their
annual cycle quite visible,
you know if I think there is things
are not quite clear because
things are happening on Holmgren
Earth's lower scale,
but people I convinced that you know
cutting observations longer
will allow us through to sort out
trends without the confusion of
these variations.
Well,
the key question was sea level rises
always when and we discussed
this a little bit,
but do we have enough science
yet to really know how much
Antarctica will add to the world's
oceans during this century.
No,
we don't,
it's actually 2 biggest unknown
in trying to predict what sea
level to expect and in fact the IPCC
felt they couldn't even give
you an opinion about how much of the
response might vary according
to what for the phone global warming
practical trajectory we we
found ourselves on.
So it's,
it's quite serious on their own and
the other thing about and how
to his that is a lot of life there
we finally passed on the fact
that I see is sitting on this this
well below sea level rock.
One of the other complications several
areas west Antarctica is
for the paradigm for this.
I guess the better just get a deeper
and deeper and deeper as you
go towards the interior of the
ice sheet and so there is a
possibility.
And in fact this part of the marine
instability there is a
prospect of if the grounding line
is starting to move inland it'll
just keep on going and it will
continue to retrieve and you
continue to lose a life until you
finally managed to heavy rice
sheep catch itself on some bedrock
features and so on the state of
Alaska have retreat process.
So what sort of year they were centuries.
This is rather uncertain and the
prospect is good you can keep on
giving and they could keep on giving
even if we stabilize the
world in some warmer started.
Yes I think NASA so came out
and said that the process is
unstoppable.
Yes the,
the,
and I think what's happening in this
I'm I'm simply region with a
couple of them being places they like
white guys here is they feel
they've done enough on bedrock profiling
there again using his
high penetrating radar system to
say they can't see any obvious.
Neil anchor points that would
stop further retreat,
but has currently started so when
the IPCC said market get more
civil rights and we can't really
quantify it if we start to
initiate the citizenry nicely collapse it.
It's possible always seeing the
first stages and already.
Please tell us about a couple of
projects the Antarctic climate
and ecosystems Cooperative Research
Centre has on the go.
Right will be that we just had,
I think the renewed last year so
we there so that they'll stall
with what we think of the most pressing
issues even part of the
ecosystem area and so we have a major
overarching projects on this
ocean driven election of the Antarctic
ice and Billy always
matters.
We've been talking about tonight.
You know activities range from voyages
with we had a voyage where
they are right,
that is ice breaker to the front of
the Tottenham away if you know
, and just this time January where
they did actually verify the
first time anybody's got this for
the coming crop of Tottenham.
If I.
Pack I just 5 permanent captain was
brave enough to try only and
get some maintenance and so we
do know that the warm water is
actually arriving there at the front
of the charity and with this
work at just being published.
Well,
I should say time Damon
Green down from them.
University of Texas in Austin
we now think that we can the
channels by which water is gonna
make its way onto the ice.
So,
the problem remains a major
interest for us,
we've already been doing most circulation
more studies to try and
explore how the ocean circulation
moves underneath my shelves and
also how the resulting water
affects the external,
and now that we've gone an improved
picture of what the state
underneath the problem looks like,
but will be going back dramas again
and the big step forward is to
start coupling the dynamics of the
ice shelves the flow of the
ground and I behind with the ocean
because on as if your melting
the bottom of changing geometry of
that that changes were talking
with.
You know he arrives and
what was living in,
we need to topple assistance together
eventually that will become
part of in times of system model,
we'll be doing more so they work
with area geophysical surveys
exploring them prices a bedrock
and Antarctica we're used to be
that talking on the phone.
Part of the whole planet
without them person,
which is a the lapels,
and we know what's some of
these part of Antarctica.
So that work will be continuing and
we've also got film programs
homely namely myself this is extent
I think biggest ice shelf in
Antarctica is 3rd largest myself and
we've had field program there
with oceanographic instruments
that were deployed by drilling
through nearly a thousand meters
of of ice shelf and appalling
instruments in the ocean underneath
enormous find out what's
actually going on in these rather
the inaccessible parts of the
planet.
You know what hearing you talk,
it almost sounds like we're trying
to discover some things about
Mars.
You know it's a mile deep beneath the ice,
it's very difficult to peer around,
we,
we don't know a lot of things it.
It's amazing that we're finding
out as much as we do.
Yeah,
it's.
But we,
we thought that if I cap survey come
Casey staging of us and say
we don't have a thousand
kilometers long and,
back home on each flight there,
there was an area where they were,
maybe 2 ground based survey the of
whole previous 50 years I had
talking exploration and we would
gather that stay there in an
8-hour flight and Soviet with further
citing it in there were
still a few places,
which we hope to get to where it.
If you were a 15th century make
you probably writing here be
dragons vigorous,
we still don't have had detailed
bedrock there but sadly the map
is is being filming.
From Hobart Tasmania.
We've been talking with Dr. Roland
C Warner he's a researcher with
Australia's Antarctic climate and
ecosystems Cooperative Research
Centre Dr. Roland.
Thank you so much for sharing
your time with us.
I really appreciate it.
There's been a blatant.
I'm Alex Smith reporting for Radio Eco.
We are back after the online grow
your own food summit with the
organizer Marjorie while Kraft Marjorie
remind us just once again
where you grow your food in the
way you operate your homestead
experiments.
No,
I actually I wasn't Central
Texas and my homestead,
is a resort.
Center dedicated to finding systems
and developing systems for you
to be able to grow having your own
food in a backyard cyberspace
and less than an hour a
day pretty tall order.
But we're working on it.
Last week,
you talked about getting her husband
and son on board with aqua
panics is it necessary to have everybody
in your family on board
with this prep gardening style
right from the get-go.
No,
in fact,
I'd say that the vast.
Majority of of people who will
consider themselves peppers.
They have a reluctant spouse or
reluctant children and so they
just you know go and do what they
do anyway with growing your own
food.
What I would recommend is just get
started and the family actually
starts to get involved in it,
one of the best ways to get them
on board is when you're
harvesting.
That's one of the most delightful
times especially with kids I got
I can give you some of the best
vegetables to grow for kids.
It'll make can all must be out there
in your yard treating it like
a snack bar,
you know,
there's lot cherry tomatoes that
grows so well in the summertime.
Those kids will be out there fighting
forum and in the cooler
seasons those sugar snap peas are
delicious were strawberries.
You know,
if you've got some really
tasty food out there.
Those kids will be out there playing
with it and that's one way to
get them involved with it without
it even being proper saying
grain.
Tell us about your Aqua panic set
up what have you done there.
You know,
we,
we've built one and I believe it's
like 30 feet long by about 12
feet wide and it has 150 gallon
fish tank and you know I had
always initially avoided alcoholics
because it's a little bit high
tech you know it's going to involve
motor motors and pumps and and
and things like that which actually
ended up being the attraction
for my husband and my and that's
the reason they like it is,
it's kinda hard.
I don't even impressed with those systems.
They do require energy.
You know you're gonna be needing
some solar power wind power or
the electrical grid which is another
reason we had avoided it
initially we were initially always
developing our systems for
Ingrid down or open that sustainability
type of situation,
but we ended up going with this,
I I have to say that it is definitely
easier to grow food in the
Arc upon access tomorrow.
Our first year of experiments are
all that way it does require a
little bit more watching for example
that pump goes out your fish
only have so long before they're
gonna need oxygen and and die so
it,
it does need a little bit more
monitoring like that,
but on the other hand,
it really is easier and part of that
here in Central Texas it was
protected from the wind.
It was protected from extremes
of heat and cold.
You know the plants just grew better
the fish created the waste
that will said the plants and
and it worked really well,
it's a,
it's a good system.
You know it's canvas often closest
Amin away but it is tricky and
technical as you say I I've
been avoiding it so far.
Let's talk about perma culture that's
another major contender for
truly sustainable agriculture have
you experimented with the food
for and by the way,
what is a food for us.
Well I love food for us and I have
to say this is my particular
favorite.
Way to grow food.
The idea of a food forces you create
an area that mimics nature in
that you plant trees and bushes and
vines and honorable way errors
and every plant in there is edible
or medicine or beneficial in
some way and if you look at the forest.
A 4th does not need any tending right
you go to a pristine forest
and the trees,
there they drop their leaves their
self marching you know they
they've learned how to manage
the water that comes to them.
Naturally they don't need to be irrigated
and they often you know
there's still some production of
food and animals and wildlife
within it.
So what we trying to do is create
systems like that and then they
get back and try to maybe had its
with a little bit more benefit
toward us there more investment
in time getting up and started
because a lot of your fruit and
nut trees are not gonna start
producing for 5 to 10 years.
But once you get them established
they're much much less work than
annual gardens.
We all know gardening can help seniors
maintain their mental and
physical health much longer but eventually
we may not be able to
handle the heavy work,
how can we set up a garden to keep
going with very little effort.
Well,
that's it.
Exactly,
that's why food Forrester such and
it's it's a real retirement
plan,
unlike Social Security,
which we never really know
if that's come along.
That's going to be a.
So a real retirement plan is going
to be to play at the food for
store to plant a small orchard right now.
Well,
you've got the strength and energy
to have that going and then you
know in your later years.
It's a lot easier to just harvest
apples and it is to be planting
doing all the work of the annual garden.
Let's talk about prepping for past
side built 2 big raised their
heads out of some years lumber
but I put a wire lying on the
bottom to keep both the morals of
seem to love by rich garden soil
. What else can we do to encourage
passed to stay out of the
garden.
Well,
one thing is to have a more first.
They have really good rich soil
will help reduce your insect
problems for more than golfers.
Personally,
I have a big problem that we have
a lot of sand here and I've been
experimenting with using castor beans
as a mole repellent and of
and I go forward talent and so far
it seems to be working very
well in fact Castro used to be
known as as no go for plant.
One of the realities of having beautiful
food source like that as
you are going to need to have some
fencing or some protection from
everything else that loves to eat
your food like raccoons or
squirrels or rabbits.
So a good fence around your
garden is just a reality.
Well,
our about 7 feet high and then we
dangle little pieces of cloth
and colored foil on the top of that
to keep the deer from jumping
in.
But for the rest we always planned
a little extra for all the
creatures that are gonna
eat out of your garden.
Whether you like it or not.
That's a very good practice we rely
very heavily on 2 dogs to do a
large part of the protection
from the predators here,
but one of the Dodgers' even really
good at spotting overhead
aerial hawks and Barking and letting
everybody know when the Hawks
are nearby and I find them invaluable
they they work all night
they mostly sleep all day.
I don't see them very much because
I give them the butchering
scraps from when we do butchering
and then they offered just get
whatever table scraps.
We don't need and then they they
find what they can you know the
bigger catcher rabbit here and there,
so they don't really require a lot
of input and they do a lot of
work.
When I was doing part time
firming in eastern Canada.
The only chemical are used as wrote
known it's made from ground-up
roots of a South American plant and
Robert rodeo used it I had to
use it for the Colorado potato beetle
if you have a big planning a
potatoes.
We had the couple of acres,
there's no way to squash
all those bugs by hand.
What do you think.
You know,
that's that's a lot of work to manage
a couple of caterer this you
know we all need to be used as much
organic processors as possible
the classic thing was something like
a couple of acres of potatoes
is to pay the kids.
It used to be a penny bugs and you'd
have them go through the rows
and then they dump out bugs in the
account and then you pay them
that used to be the he to get rid
of the goods but Colorado potato
beetle.
Could still work today if it gets
a neighborhood kids going well
last week.
You talked about not needing refrigeration
or freezers that we
could just munch away through the
fresh food season but I have to
admit,
there are times when we got so much
food more that we could give
away trade even that we needed to
freeze some at least until we
could catch up to our canning
and drying I like adding a
dehydration they don't depend
on the grid staying up.
What about you.
I do too.
As I'm not a huge proponent of
that and fermentation also as
another as another method of food storage,
by the way at the homegrown food summit.
We have one presentation by Kendra
Lynn who'll be showing you how
to do water about caning and how to
do pressure canning and what I
love about it is,
you know,
as some people have a fear of those
big pressure because they are
these big intimidating things and
there's the stories of them
blowing up and stuff,
right.
There's no longer a concern about
they've built them there now
face.
But when you see Kendra.
Who is this flight and beautiful
woman just handling that
machinery go I can do it and we also
have already Hamann is going
to be doing a whole thing on how
to how to preserve food by
fermentation as well as the health
benefits turns up at that
fermented foods really help your
gut bacteria and help you to
digest a lot better.
So some of these techniques are actually
I can help increase the
nutrition content of the
food you're eating.
Yeah warranties real gem we've
had on radio shock and I still
check out her blog once a week and
it's important to keep up with
that one of my goals is
to build a solar dryer.
Do you have one.
We do I used a model based on its
side believe it's Appalachian
State University created this model
there's there's lots of other
ones out there and it has worked really
really well now we do tend
to be a bit drier here in Texas,
but I found that that model even
worked well during the summer's
the times when we had a wet period
that is definitely a technique
for the poor on preserving
food that's a very useful.
Farmers around here used to throw
their pitches up on a Hot Tin
Roof on one of their shepherds and
solar dried them that way and
it did work.
Now let me ask you do you let
chickens interior garden.
On rare occasions I do.
One example was one time my sweet
potato showed up with these
strange looking little beetles
that had a shiny.
It was almost what by chrome shell.
I have no idea what they were,
they were and alien Beatles.
You know,
normally when I see an insect
outbreak like that I think
immediately that my plants are
stressed and they need some
nutrients you know some some some
sort of nutrient thing and I'll
try to get them,
you know,
liquid seaweed or some homemade
compost or something.
But in the short term immediate
what I do that.
The chickens in there and chickens
are naturally insect they love
insects first but I watch them innocent
of their gun getting all
the insects then you wanna kick'em
out of the garden because then they'll
start scratching up the
rest of your pricing ads.
I do,
they will scratch about so aren't
that after all your YouTube
videos your best selling grow your
own groceries course that you
hear from gardeners all over the world.
Do you.
We don't know and we have a very
active network of people they
contribute.
Things that they're discovering
in there that that they're
learning and we're very excited
about that and want to develop
that further well actually creating
also a network of places just
like our place where we're doing
research on different ways to
grow food other places that are doing
that are starting to become
network together and sharing results
and making it available to
them to everybody really I feel Alex
this solution is gonna come
from you and for me and from,
you know I mean anybody even hardly
an example Leslie Leslie
Parsons works still works full
time and she only has a small
garden.
She's very passionate about Squire
should about 2 hundred square
foot garden and so she's been doing
all these experiments were
squash she's come up with a couple
of varieties that are resistant
of the squash vine borer which is
a horrible problem for people
and squash is such a good
important calorie crop.
So you know she's only doing this
part time in a 200ft² garden.
She has done really,
really valuable research on of
a crop that's resistant to the
squash vine borer which is hugely
important to the rest of us
she's publishing that work on our
our blog and making it available
to other people and creating a
whole discussion about it now.
Other people are trying it and duplicating
our work and getting
feedback to her.
This is how it's gonna happen.
Monsanto is not here to help us,
the USDA is not here to help us.
Unfortunately our own government.
While it does try.
It's actually still we we controlled
by the big companies.
This is gonna be a problem that can
only be solved by you and me
and by individuals and neighbors
working together and that's the
whole reason for for what I do is
working at this grassroots level
of coming up with real solutions
for you to create your own food
and medicine.
What would you say the number one
concern people razor or the
block that prevents them in their
own minds from getting going on
growing their own groceries.
I think most people think that it's
gonna be a lot of work and
they're not going to get much
production out of it.
It's also were also such an instant
gratification such high if it
take my son can with barbed work
on a guitar and look at the Xbox
and like in 5 minutes.
He's a rock star okay with with that
then and I just doesn't have
. And in the garden things take
2 to 3 months to mature.
So it's adjusting to life style that's
actually more human scale
is a pretty big block.
I would say though,
that's probably one of the things
you're most Hungarian for in
your life.
You know it's strange a start following
your heart into something
as you did with personal food growing
and I could also call that
personal liberty,
then you teacher communicate you
connect a normal suddenly you
Marjorie while Kraft have
become kind of a,
a one-woman movement on your own.
Isn't it strange.
It is it,
it's only a review as about this week.
15 years ago our view to told me
what I will girl what I'd be
doing Iacocca where have no no no,
or you know you know life
is amazing adventures a.
Well,
I want to take your DVD course what's
in it and why does it cost.
Well know said it's it's 2 DVDs
and then it includes a CD-ROM
that's a whole library of documents
to support it and I,
one,
it's basically like me taken you
by the hand and taking you
through my homestead here and showing
you how I grow food and I'm
like,
you know.
Here's the water tanks were set
up to catch rainwater and oh by
the way we overbuilt it
it was a huge mistake.
Please don't make it this big and
then he a place where we started
a garden and here's another place
we started a garden and these
are the reasons why those gardens
totally sucked in failed.
But here's where we put our other
garden and this is working,
and here's the gardening method
that years because this is the
most efficient one and I've
tried all these other ones,
but this is the one that I really
like and here's where I keep the
rabbits and I put them right here
next to the garden because
outweigh their fertility can help
me and it's real simple and easy
to do this.
This way,
and here's my flock of chickens
and here's the reason I have'em
like this and here's the dogs and oh,
look at this is the size.
And you really need to keep this
out of the garden right and
here's my orchard and all the
experiments with the trees.
We've done.
And this is why these died in of lived in,
you know I just take you and show
you everything that I go through
ND and in even the maturing
process viewers how you,
but your rabbit and here's how you
butchered chicken India is what
you do with all the parts
of those animals.
That's it.
It's really,
you know to 2 videos that they chose
you all those components and
then again that library
the resource library.
So you know I talk about a rainwater
collection system.
We have a whole rainwater collection
system e-book in their own
how to how to build one.
I talk about you know butchering a rabbit.
And then we have a whole article
on how to channel rabbit hides
that we'll be able to use those effectively
or you know we've got
5 different PDF different ways to
compost fertility so important.
So that's what it's,
it's all about,
it's a grow your own groceries.com
and its$37
for the 4th but I tell you what I'd
really recommend you go to the
home-grown food summit and watch
that presentation I have on how
to grow half year on food in your
backyard in less than an hour a
day.
Take a look at that and say you know
that'll really inspire you do
that you could do this,
you can get their systems up and
running in about 6 months and be
producing half your own food in
less than an hour a day by next
year.
I'd love to do it now Marjorie what
will your next project be or
is it too soon to tell.
Well,
we've got a lot of irons in the
fire and after this summit,
we're going to look at what
will have the most impact,
to be able to have more home-grown
food on every table,
we're looking at doing some stuff
in partnership with Mike Adams
of the natural news and possibly
working on some developing some
programs to get local food into schools.
We've got a whole,
you know I don't also developing
that network of research
organizations.
There's a lot on the table,
we haven't yet figured that out.
We've been talking with Marjorie
while craft of grow your own
groceries.com her DVD Guide to Growing
in your own backyard is a
bestseller,
her free YouTube videos and growing
your own food a really popular
and Marjorie recently organized
the biggest online summit
dedicated to growing homegrown food
I'll be putting links to all
of that in my shell blog equal
shot.info Marjorie.
Thank you so much for helping all of us.
Alex.
Thanks for having they are.
I really appreciate it.
I'm Alex Smith reporting
for Radio Eco Shah.
I'm dropping my own garden right
now with raised beds,
a better compost bin nets for the
raspberries and 80 inches of
mulch all around.
Find all our past programs as MP3
downloads at our website eco
shark.org.
Don't forget to follow up on links
for this week show in my weekly
blog published Wednesday that it shock.info
or listen to the sound
card page had sown cloud.com/Radio
Eco shock.
I'm a locksmith.
Thank you for listening and I hope
we will get together again next