[Script Info]
Title: 
[Events]
Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,0:00:05.21,0:00:06.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Carl Sagan is one of the preeminent
Dialogue: 0,0:00:06.58,0:00:07.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,astronomers of our time.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:07.96,0:00:09.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He is known for bringing the heavens
Dialogue: 0,0:00:09.48,0:00:12.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to our living rooms with\Nhis PBS series Cosmos.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:12.61,0:00:15.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,His latest work is The\NDemon-Haunted World,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:15.44,0:00:17.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Science as a Candle in the Dark.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:17.64,0:00:19.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It explores the country's\Ngrowing fascination
Dialogue: 0,0:00:19.79,0:00:22.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with pseudo-science,\Nastrology, faith healers,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:22.48,0:00:24.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the supernatural and the\Nlike, all superstitions
Dialogue: 0,0:00:24.93,0:00:27.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that he says threaten to\Nundermine true science.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:27.90,0:00:29.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I am pleased to have him here
Dialogue: 0,0:00:29.25,0:00:30.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I also take note of the fact
Dialogue: 0,0:00:30.93,0:00:33.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that he is a David Duncan\Nprofessor of astronomy
Dialogue: 0,0:00:33.18,0:00:35.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and space sciences and\Ndirector of the Laboratory
Dialogue: 0,0:00:35.68,0:00:37.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for Planetary Studies\Nat Cornell University,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:37.96,0:00:39.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,distinguished visiting scientist
Dialogue: 0,0:00:39.23,0:00:40.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:40.93,0:00:42.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,California Institute of Technology
Dialogue: 0,0:00:42.52,0:00:44.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and co-planner and president\Nof The Planetary Society,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:44.89,0:00:47.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the largest space interest\Ngroup in the world,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:47.46,0:00:49.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and a former Pulitzer Prize winner.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:49.24,0:00:50.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Welcome back today.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:50.08,0:00:52.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Thank you Charlie.\N- It's great to see you.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:52.10,0:00:54.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Listen to this, I hate to\Nread too much, but this is,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:54.83,0:00:56.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's almost like they've\Nbeen reading your book.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:56.68,0:01:00.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is from the New York\NTimes for Friday, May 24.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:01.91,0:01:05.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Americans flaunt science, a study finds.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:05.59,0:01:09.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Less than half of all\NAmerican adults understand
Dialogue: 0,0:01:09.43,0:01:11.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the Earth orbits the sun yearly,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:11.96,0:01:14.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,according to a basic science survey.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:14.03,0:01:15.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Nevertheless, there's\Nenthusiasm for research
Dialogue: 0,0:01:15.94,0:01:18.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,except in some fields\Nlike genetic engineering
Dialogue: 0,0:01:18.10,0:01:20.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and nuclear power that\Nare viewed with suspicion.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:20.61,0:01:23.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Only about 25% of American\Nadults get passing grades
Dialogue: 0,0:01:23.98,0:01:25.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in a National Science Foundation Survey
Dialogue: 0,0:01:25.90,0:01:29.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of what people know about\Nbasic science and economics.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:29.32,0:01:31.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, this is singing\Nyour song, isn't it?
Dialogue: 0,0:01:31.20,0:01:33.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Well, it's certainly\Nwhat I'm talking about
Dialogue: 0,0:01:33.13,0:01:35.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in The Demon-Haunted World.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:35.15,0:01:39.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My feeling, Charlie, is\Nthat it's not pseudo-science
Dialogue: 0,0:01:41.99,0:01:46.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and superstition and New\NAge, so-called, beliefs
Dialogue: 0,0:01:46.74,0:01:50.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and fundamentalist\Nzealotry are something new.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:50.43,0:01:53.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They've been with us for as\Nlong as we've been human.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:53.76,0:01:57.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But we live in an age based\Non science and technology
Dialogue: 0,0:01:58.31,0:02:01.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with formidable technological powers.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:01.58,0:02:04.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Science and technology are propelling us
Dialogue: 0,0:02:04.08,0:02:05.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,forward at accelerating rates.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:05.90,0:02:07.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- That's right. And if\Nwe don't understand it
Dialogue: 0,0:02:07.65,0:02:09.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and by we I mean the general public
Dialogue: 0,0:02:09.79,0:02:11.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if it's something that\N"oh, I'm not good at that.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:11.100,0:02:13.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"I don't anything about it,"
Dialogue: 0,0:02:13.62,0:02:16.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then who is making all the\Ndecisions about science
Dialogue: 0,0:02:16.16,0:02:18.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and technology that are going to determine
Dialogue: 0,0:02:18.49,0:02:20.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what kind of future our children live in?
Dialogue: 0,0:02:20.72,0:02:23.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Just some members of Congress?
Dialogue: 0,0:02:23.70,0:02:25.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But there's no more than a\Nhandful of members of Congress
Dialogue: 0,0:02:25.87,0:02:28.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with any background in science at all.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:28.32,0:02:31.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the Republican\NCongress has just abolished
Dialogue: 0,0:02:31.06,0:02:34.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,its own office of technology assessment,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:34.73,0:02:36.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the organization that\Ngave them bipartisan,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:36.89,0:02:39.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,competent advice on\Nscience and technology.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:39.09,0:02:41.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They say "we don't want to know.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:41.37,0:02:42.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Don't tell us about\Nscience and technology."
Dialogue: 0,0:02:42.92,0:02:44.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Surprising, because Gingrich\Nis genuinely interested,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:44.100,0:02:48.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think--\N- He is, no question.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:48.06,0:02:49.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Out of his own intellectual curiosity.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:49.48,0:02:51.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Does the president still\Nhave a science adviser
Dialogue: 0,0:02:51.24,0:02:52.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the White House?\N- He does,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:52.33,0:02:53.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he does, John Gibbons
Dialogue: 0,0:02:53.16,0:02:55.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the vice president is\Nscientifically literate.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:55.99,0:03:00.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- He's well known for being\Nscientifically a science maven.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:00.20,0:03:01.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, you blast them all,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:01.57,0:03:05.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,creationists, Christian Scientists\Nwho you say would rather
Dialogue: 0,0:03:06.51,0:03:09.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,allow their children to suffer
Dialogue: 0,0:03:09.56,0:03:12.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,than give them insulin or antibiotics.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:12.42,0:03:15.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Astrologers come in for\Nparticular scorn on your part.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:15.11,0:03:15.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(laughing)
Dialogue: 0,0:03:15.94,0:03:18.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Well, I wouldn't say\Nscorn, just derision.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:18.35,0:03:20.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Derision.\N(laughing)
Dialogue: 0,0:03:20.33,0:03:22.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A more generous version of scorn.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:22.97,0:03:24.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But what's the danger of all this?
Dialogue: 0,0:03:24.82,0:03:26.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, you know, this\Nis not the thing that--
Dialogue: 0,0:03:26.47,0:03:27.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- There's two kinds of dangers.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:27.62,0:03:30.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One is what I just talked about,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:30.33,0:03:32.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we've arranged this\Nsociety based on science
Dialogue: 0,0:03:32.41,0:03:35.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and technology in which\Nnobody understands anything
Dialogue: 0,0:03:35.32,0:03:37.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about science and technology,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:37.31,0:03:41.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and this combustible mixture\Nof ignorance and power,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:42.29,0:03:45.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sooner or later, is going\Nto blow up in our faces.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:45.60,0:03:47.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean who is running the science
Dialogue: 0,0:03:47.38,0:03:49.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and technology in a democracy,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:49.21,0:03:51.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if the people don't\Nknow anything about it?
Dialogue: 0,0:03:51.12,0:03:55.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the second reason that\NI'm worried about this
Dialogue: 0,0:03:55.59,0:03:59.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that science is more\Nthan a body of knowledge.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:59.32,0:04:03.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's a way of thinking, a way\Nof skeptically interrogating
Dialogue: 0,0:04:03.61,0:04:07.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the universe with a fine\Nunderstanding of human fallibility.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:08.10,0:04:11.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If we are not able to\Nask skeptical questions,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:13.22,0:04:17.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to interrogate those who tell\Nus that something is true,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:17.16,0:04:20.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to be skeptical of those in authority,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:20.27,0:04:24.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then we're up for grabs\Nfor the next charlatan,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:24.24,0:04:27.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,political or religious,\Nwho comes ambling along.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:27.84,0:04:31.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's a thing that Jefferson\Nlaid great stress on.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:31.30,0:04:35.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It wasn't enough, he said,\Nto enshrine some rights
Dialogue: 0,0:04:35.47,0:04:38.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in a Constitution or a Bill of Rights.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:38.14,0:04:42.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The people had to be educated\Nand they had to practice
Dialogue: 0,0:04:42.23,0:04:44.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,their skepticism and their education.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:44.51,0:04:47.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Otherwise we don't run the government,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:47.21,0:04:49.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the government runs us.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:49.04,0:04:52.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Jefferson was amazing in\Nhis devotion to science.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:52.82,0:04:54.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Absolutely.\N- We think of Jefferson
Dialogue: 0,0:04:54.10,0:04:56.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as this man who was literate
Dialogue: 0,0:04:56.65,0:05:00.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and who was a passionate\Narticulator of freedom,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:01.31,0:05:03.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but if you go to Monticello--\N- Exactly.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:03.51,0:05:06.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- What you appreciate is he\Nwas at heart a scientist,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:06.98,0:05:09.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a botanist, an architect, geologist.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:11.21,0:05:13.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And if you, Meriwether Lewis,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:13.30,0:05:16.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as we now know from Steven Ambrose,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:16.73,0:05:20.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he wanted him to go out\Nand do experimentations
Dialogue: 0,0:05:20.04,0:05:21.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and explore and be skeptical
Dialogue: 0,0:05:21.76,0:05:25.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and find answers to passages\Nand explore the West.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:26.07,0:05:26.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Exactly right.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:26.90,0:05:29.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there was also an economic grail
Dialogue: 0,0:05:29.53,0:05:32.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there if the northwest passage was found.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:32.31,0:05:36.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Jefferson said that he\Nwas at heart a scientist,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:37.29,0:05:39.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that he would have loved\Nto have been a scientist.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:39.64,0:05:42.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But there were certain\Nevents happening in America
Dialogue: 0,0:05:42.87,0:05:45.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that called to him, and\Nso he devoted his life
Dialogue: 0,0:05:45.77,0:05:46.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to that kind of politics.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:46.60,0:05:48.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- A revolution.\N- Indeed.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:48.71,0:05:52.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So that generations later\Npeople could be scientists.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:53.54,0:05:54.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Yeah.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:54.37,0:05:57.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Have we, the point is made,\Nand maybe by you, you know,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:57.87,0:05:59.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that when's the last\Ntime we had a president
Dialogue: 0,0:05:59.22,0:06:01.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who made a speech about science?
Dialogue: 0,0:06:01.14,0:06:03.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- I say that.\N- Yeah.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:03.11,0:06:05.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is this notion that science
Dialogue: 0,0:06:06.90,0:06:10.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is not of great interest\Nto us in some sense,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:10.03,0:06:12.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that somehow we don't want to learn.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:12.83,0:06:16.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- You see, people read the\Nstock market quotations
Dialogue: 0,0:06:17.16,0:06:18.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and financial pages.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:18.66,0:06:20.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Look how complex that is and--
Dialogue: 0,0:06:20.47,0:06:21.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- [Charlie] Because they\Nknow the direct connection
Dialogue: 0,0:06:21.98,0:06:23.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to their own--\N- There's a motivation.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:23.44,0:06:26.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But they're capable of it,\Nlarge numbers of people.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:26.22,0:06:29.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People are able to look\Nat sports statistics.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:29.24,0:06:31.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Look how many people can do that.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:31.22,0:06:34.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Understanding science is not\Nmore difficult than that.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:34.12,0:06:36.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It does not involve greater\Nintellectual activities.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:36.91,0:06:40.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But the thing about\Nscience is first of all,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:41.49,0:06:44.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's after the way the universe really is
Dialogue: 0,0:06:44.38,0:06:47.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and not what makes us feel good.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:47.09,0:06:50.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And a lot of the competing doctrines
Dialogue: 0,0:06:50.24,0:06:54.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are after what feels\Ngood and not what's true.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:54.31,0:06:55.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Okay, but you've got to make,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:55.57,0:06:57.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm not sure you'll go this far with me,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:57.17,0:06:59.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I mean there's, a lot of\Nthat is about feeling good
Dialogue: 0,0:06:59.40,0:07:01.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and there's a lot of that\Nthat's about hocus pocus.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:01.78,0:07:04.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But at the same time, there\Nare millions of people
Dialogue: 0,0:07:04.96,0:07:08.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who understand science\Ndoes not prove religion
Dialogue: 0,0:07:09.65,0:07:12.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because religion is faith-based.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:12.92,0:07:15.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Therefore, you should\Nnot deny the value of it
Dialogue: 0,0:07:15.87,0:07:18.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because it is faith-based\Nand not science based.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:18.29,0:07:21.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- But let's look a little\Nmore deeply into that.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:21.34,0:07:22.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What is faith?
Dialogue: 0,0:07:22.84,0:07:25.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is belief in the absence of evidence.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:25.91,0:07:29.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, I don't propose to tell\Nanybody what to believe,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:29.24,0:07:33.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but for me, believing when\Nthere's no compelling evidence
Dialogue: 0,0:07:34.21,0:07:35.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is a mistake.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:35.33,0:07:37.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The idea is to withhold belief
Dialogue: 0,0:07:37.92,0:07:40.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,until there is compelling evidence.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:40.30,0:07:44.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And if the universe does not\Ncomply with our predisposition,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:44.96,0:07:47.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,okay, then we have the\Nwrenching obligation
Dialogue: 0,0:07:47.66,0:07:50.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to accommodate to the way\Nthe universe really is.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:50.01,0:07:53.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- But I think you, but I\Nmean, so you step forward
Dialogue: 0,0:07:53.12,0:07:54.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to say "I deny all religion
Dialogue: 0,0:07:54.73,0:07:55.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"because I can't see it\Nproved scientifically?"
Dialogue: 0,0:07:55.56,0:07:57.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- No, no, no, no no no.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:57.80,0:07:59.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- You see the value of\Nreligious experience
Dialogue: 0,0:07:59.48,0:08:03.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the value of reaching\Nfor higher experiences?
Dialogue: 0,0:08:03.28,0:08:07.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Let me say, religion deals\Nwith history, with poetry,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:11.48,0:08:15.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with great literature,\Nwith ethics, with morals,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:17.23,0:08:21.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,including the morality of\Ntreating compassionately
Dialogue: 0,0:08:21.99,0:08:24.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the least fortunate among us.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:24.17,0:08:27.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,All of these are things that\NI endorse whole heartedly.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:27.84,0:08:31.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Where religion gets into\Ntrouble is in those cases
Dialogue: 0,0:08:31.48,0:08:35.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that it pretends to know\Nsomething about science.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:35.45,0:08:37.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The science in the Bible, for example,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:37.74,0:08:41.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was acquired by the Jews\Nfrom the Babylonians
Dialogue: 0,0:08:41.38,0:08:45.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,during the Babylonian captivity of 600 BC.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:45.42,0:08:47.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That was the best science\Non the planet then.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:47.31,0:08:49.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But we've learned something since then.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:49.60,0:08:52.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Roman Catholicism, Reform Judaism,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:54.60,0:08:58.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,most of the mainstream\NProtestant denominations
Dialogue: 0,0:08:58.25,0:09:01.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have no difficulty with the idea
Dialogue: 0,0:09:01.27,0:09:04.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that humans have evolved\Nfrom other creatures,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:04.00,0:09:08.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the Earth is 4.6 billion\Nyears old, the Big Bang.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:08.77,0:09:10.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They don't have any trouble with that.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:10.60,0:09:14.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The trouble comes with people\Nwho are Biblical literalists
Dialogue: 0,0:09:14.98,0:09:18.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who believe that the Bible is dictated
Dialogue: 0,0:09:19.36,0:09:21.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by the Creator of the Universe
Dialogue: 0,0:09:21.93,0:09:24.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to an unerring stenographer.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:24.18,0:09:25.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- [Charlie] And so therefore they--
Dialogue: 0,0:09:25.11,0:09:27.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- And has no metaphor or allegory in it.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:27.57,0:09:29.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- And from there, they\Nmake their political
Dialogue: 0,0:09:29.67,0:09:32.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and economic choices, and social choices.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:32.20,0:09:33.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- And scientific.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:33.32,0:09:34.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- And scientific choices and scientific.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:34.94,0:09:37.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's part of your\Nproblem with that idea.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:37.12,0:09:37.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- [Carl] Exactly.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:37.96,0:09:39.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- It is that because\Nfor the wrong reasons,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:39.57,0:09:41.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we make the wrong choices about science.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:41.39,0:09:42.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- That's right.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:42.22,0:09:44.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So who is more humble?
Dialogue: 0,0:09:45.12,0:09:48.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The scientist who looks at the universe
Dialogue: 0,0:09:48.65,0:09:50.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with an open mind and accepts
Dialogue: 0,0:09:50.30,0:09:52.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whatever the universe has to teach us,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:52.55,0:09:55.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or somebody who says\Neverything in this book
Dialogue: 0,0:09:55.26,0:09:58.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,must be considered the literal truth
Dialogue: 0,0:09:58.77,0:10:01.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and nevermind the fallibility\Nof all the human beings
Dialogue: 0,0:10:01.62,0:10:04.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,involved in the writing of this book.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:04.05,0:10:05.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Okay, I mean, I accept that, but I also,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:05.65,0:10:07.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the argument that would be\Nmade by many is that, you know,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:07.81,0:10:11.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you don't have to, whether\Na specific scientific act
Dialogue: 0,0:10:11.68,0:10:15.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,took place as described by\Nsome Biblical writer is not,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:16.27,0:10:19.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is not at the heart of the religious faith
Dialogue: 0,0:10:19.57,0:10:21.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the religious experience.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:21.25,0:10:24.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Some people agree with\Nyou and some people don't.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:24.09,0:10:25.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Some people think that every jot
Dialogue: 0,0:10:25.96,0:10:28.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and tittle in the Bible is essential.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:28.00,0:10:31.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You throw one thing away\Nto allegory or metaphor,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:31.70,0:10:34.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then it's up to everybody\Nto make their own decisions.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:34.45,0:10:36.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Then are we, this,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:36.74,0:10:39.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a lot of this has to do with\Nscience in the United States.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:39.80,0:10:41.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Are we different than other nations?
Dialogue: 0,0:10:41.13,0:10:42.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- No, absolutely not.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:42.61,0:10:44.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can see this worldwide.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:45.85,0:10:49.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In India, there's a\Nmadness about astrology,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:50.75,0:10:52.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in Britain, it's ghosts,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:52.53,0:10:55.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in Germany, it's rays\Ncoming up from the Earth
Dialogue: 0,0:10:55.64,0:10:59.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that can only be detected by dousers.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:59.14,0:11:03.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Every country has its own specialties.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:03.04,0:11:06.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We seem to be fascinated\Nby UFOs right now.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:06.12,0:11:07.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But one thing.\N- What is that,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:07.10,0:11:09.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,before you leave UFOs.\N(laughing)
Dialogue: 0,0:11:09.33,0:11:11.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Tell me about you and Professor Mack.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:11.89,0:11:14.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- John Mack is a professor\Nof psychiatry at Harvard
Dialogue: 0,0:11:14.44,0:11:17.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who I've known for many years.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:17.67,0:11:21.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We were arrested together at\Nthe Nevada Nuclear Test Site
Dialogue: 0,0:11:22.14,0:11:24.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,protesting US testing in the face
Dialogue: 0,0:11:24.87,0:11:27.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of a Soviet moratorium on testing.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:28.71,0:11:30.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And many years ago, he asked me
Dialogue: 0,0:11:30.81,0:11:33.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"what is there in this UFO business?
Dialogue: 0,0:11:33.38,0:11:34.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Is there anything to it?"
Dialogue: 0,0:11:34.83,0:11:36.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I said "absolutely nothing, except,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:36.91,0:11:39.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"of course, for a psychiatrist."
Dialogue: 0,0:11:39.11,0:11:40.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He is a psychiatrist.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:40.80,0:11:42.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, he looked into it
Dialogue: 0,0:11:42.42,0:11:46.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and decided that there was\Nso much emotional energy
Dialogue: 0,0:11:48.53,0:11:51.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the reports of people\Nwho claimed to be abducted
Dialogue: 0,0:11:51.68,0:11:55.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that it couldn't possibly be\Nsome psychological aberration,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:56.36,0:11:58.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that it had to be true.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:58.20,0:12:00.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He believed his patients.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:00.97,0:12:03.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I do not believe his patients.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:03.77,0:12:07.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Many of these stories are about\Nwaking up from a deep sleep
Dialogue: 0,0:12:09.35,0:12:13.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and finding your bed surrounded\Nby three or four short,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:14.73,0:12:18.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,dour, gray and sexually obsessed\Nbeings who then take you
Dialogue: 0,0:12:19.54,0:12:23.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to their spaceship after they\Nslither you through your wall,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:23.88,0:12:27.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and perform a variety of objectionable,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:27.26,0:12:29.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,sexual experiments on you.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:29.18,0:12:33.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- But here we have Dr.\NCarl Sagan, astronomer,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:38.25,0:12:40.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,versus Dr. John, I mean\NDoctor, what's his first name?
Dialogue: 0,0:12:40.54,0:12:42.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- John Mack.\N- John Mack, MD.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:44.64,0:12:45.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- No question.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:46.71,0:12:48.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So what's the problem?
Dialogue: 0,0:12:49.73,0:12:51.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- He's a scientist.\N- How can scientists disagree?
Dialogue: 0,0:12:51.61,0:12:52.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- He's a scientist.\N- Is that what you're asking?
Dialogue: 0,0:12:52.92,0:12:54.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Well, no. I'm asking how could,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:54.03,0:12:55.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean what do you think of this man
Dialogue: 0,0:12:55.31,0:12:56.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,coming to these conclusions?
Dialogue: 0,0:12:56.22,0:12:59.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- I think he is not using\Nthe scientific method
Dialogue: 0,0:12:59.11,0:13:01.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in approaching his issue.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:01.18,0:13:02.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- And were you constantly, I mean,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:02.62,0:13:05.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I assume you come at him with\Nboth barrels in conversations.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:05.40,0:13:07.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- And in The Demon-Haunted World.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:07.48,0:13:09.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- [Charlie] And he says?
Dialogue: 0,0:13:09.06,0:13:13.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- He says I don't appreciate\Nthe emotional force--
Dialogue: 0,0:13:13.17,0:13:15.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- You don't?\N- Of these reports.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:17.38,0:13:21.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But many people awaken from a nightmare
Dialogue: 0,0:13:21.17,0:13:23.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with profound emotional force.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:24.51,0:13:26.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That doesn't mean that\Nthe nightmare is true,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:26.35,0:13:28.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it means something went\Non inside our heads.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:28.56,0:13:30.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- You were making a point\Nbefore I jumped the gun, Mack.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:30.61,0:13:31.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Oh, yeah.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:31.44,0:13:34.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What I wanted to say is going back
Dialogue: 0,0:13:34.17,0:13:37.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the question of adequate evidence
Dialogue: 0,0:13:37.94,0:13:42.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on something that's\Nemotionally really pulling you.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:43.09,0:13:47.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I lost both my parents\Nabout 12 or 15 years ago
Dialogue: 0,0:13:48.17,0:13:50.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I had a great relationship with them.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:50.70,0:13:52.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I really miss them.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:52.06,0:13:56.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I would love to believe that their spirits
Dialogue: 0,0:13:56.21,0:13:58.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,were around somewhere.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:58.64,0:14:00.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I'd give almost anything
Dialogue: 0,0:14:00.03,0:14:03.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to spend five minutes a year with them.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:04.16,0:14:06.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Do you hear their voices ever?
Dialogue: 0,0:14:06.17,0:14:07.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Sometimes.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:07.29,0:14:11.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,About six or eight times since\Ntheir death I've heard it.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:11.27,0:14:15.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- "Carl," just in the voice\Nof my father or my mother.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:16.10,0:14:18.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, I don't think that means\Nthat they're in the next room.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:18.77,0:14:20.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think it means that--\N- They're in your head.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:20.91,0:14:22.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- I've had an auditory hallucination.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:22.77,0:14:26.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I was with them so long, I\Nheard their voices so often.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:26.29,0:14:27.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Why shouldn't I be able to make
Dialogue: 0,0:14:27.74,0:14:30.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a vivid recollection of them?
Dialogue: 0,0:14:30.54,0:14:32.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Here's what's interesting\Nabout this for me,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:32.10,0:14:34.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, you won't see this, but\NI'll throw it at you anyway.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:34.97,0:14:39.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You convinced me a long time\Nago that it was arrogant
Dialogue: 0,0:14:39.33,0:14:42.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for me or for anyone else to believe
Dialogue: 0,0:14:42.62,0:14:46.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that there wasn't some\Nlife outside of our,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:47.16,0:14:48.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- To exclude the possibility.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:48.49,0:14:52.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- To exclude the\Npossibility was an arrogance
Dialogue: 0,0:14:52.02,0:14:53.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of intellect that we should not assume.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:53.37,0:14:55.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- [Carl] I still believe so.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:55.07,0:14:56.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- You couldn't prove it, you\Ndidn't know it was there,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:56.66,0:14:58.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but the arrogance--\N- Right.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:58.80,0:14:59.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We don't know if it's there,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:59.63,0:15:00.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we don't know if it's not there.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:00.65,0:15:01.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Let's look.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:03.70,0:15:07.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- And if you take that, why can't you say
Dialogue: 0,0:15:07.51,0:15:08.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"there's a lot we don't know.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:08.82,0:15:11.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"There's a lot of power\Nthere that we don't know."
Dialogue: 0,0:15:11.99,0:15:14.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- It's what I believe,\Nbut that doesn't mean
Dialogue: 0,0:15:14.68,0:15:18.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that every fraudulent\Nclaim has to be accepted.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:22.56,0:15:26.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We demand the most rigorous\Nstandards of evidence,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:26.61,0:15:29.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,especially on what's important to us.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:29.16,0:15:32.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So if some guy comes up to me\Nand, a channeler or a medium
Dialogue: 0,0:15:32.96,0:15:35.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"I can put you in touch\Nwith your parents."
Dialogue: 0,0:15:35.53,0:15:39.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, because I want so\Nterribly to believe that,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:40.06,0:15:44.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I know I have to reach in for\Nadded reserves of skepticism
Dialogue: 0,0:15:44.57,0:15:48.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because I'm likely to be\Nfooled, and much more minor,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:49.11,0:15:50.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to have my money taken.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:50.26,0:15:51.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- [Charlie] Well, is it JZ Knight was it?.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:51.88,0:15:53.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Yeah, exactly.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:53.22,0:15:54.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,She has a guy named Ramtha
Dialogue: 0,0:15:54.99,0:15:57.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who's 10,000 years old or something.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:57.45,0:15:58.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- 35.\N- 35, yes.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:00.60,0:16:02.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And he tells you lots of things
Dialogue: 0,0:16:02.87,0:16:06.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but nothing about what life\Nwas like 35,000 years ago.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:06.12,0:16:08.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- [Charlie] Shirley Maclaine believes.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:08.17,0:16:11.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Shirley Maclaine believes\Nthat Ramtha was her brother.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:11.59,0:16:13.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(laughing)
Dialogue: 0,0:16:14.70,0:16:18.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Things like the Loch Ness\Nmonster and all of that.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:18.50,0:16:20.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Again--\N- Photographs.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:20.42,0:16:21.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- All fakes.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:21.72,0:16:24.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean the most famous photograph
Dialogue: 0,0:16:25.55,0:16:26.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has now been shown to be a fake,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:26.88,0:16:29.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but could there be a unknown mammal
Dialogue: 0,0:16:31.03,0:16:35.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or even reptile of large\Ndimension swimming in an Irish,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:36.10,0:16:37.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in a Scottish lake?
Dialogue: 0,0:16:37.56,0:16:38.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Sure there could.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:38.47,0:16:39.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That we don't know about?
Dialogue: 0,0:16:39.30,0:16:40.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Sure there could, who says no?
Dialogue: 0,0:16:40.52,0:16:41.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- [Charlie] But nobody--
Dialogue: 0,0:16:41.35,0:16:44.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- But the evidence does not support it,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:44.22,0:16:45.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,does not demonstrate it.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:45.97,0:16:48.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So do we say, "oh, ridiculous,"
Dialogue: 0,0:16:48.01,0:16:49.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,no we don't do that.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:49.16,0:16:52.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We say unproved, which\Nis a Scottish verdict.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:53.90,0:16:58.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Some reviewers differ with\Nyour conclusions on this point
Dialogue: 0,0:16:58.70,0:17:00.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that you seem to say it's growing,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:00.83,0:17:02.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this kind of pseudo science and--
Dialogue: 0,0:17:02.54,0:17:03.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- No.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:03.63,0:17:04.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Sorry to interrupt.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:04.53,0:17:07.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't, this is part of being human.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:07.42,0:17:09.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Humans have had this\Nway of magical thinking
Dialogue: 0,0:17:09.71,0:17:11.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,through all of our history.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:11.36,0:17:15.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The problem is that today the technology
Dialogue: 0,0:17:15.48,0:17:19.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has reached formidable, maybe\Neven awesome proportions,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:19.44,0:17:23.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and so the dangers of\Nthinking this way are larger.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:23.90,0:17:26.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Not that this is a new kind of thinking.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:26.24,0:17:29.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- You are living with myelo displasia.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:29.31,0:17:32.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Or I have been.\N- You have been.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:32.34,0:17:34.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's in remission.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:34.16,0:17:35.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Are you--
Dialogue: 0,0:17:35.04,0:17:39.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Well, you know, with\Ndiseases of this sort
Dialogue: 0,0:17:39.24,0:17:43.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and in all cancers--\N- Cancer of the bone marrow?
Dialogue: 0,0:17:43.11,0:17:46.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Myelo displasia is not exactly\Ncancer of the bone marrow,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:46.19,0:17:50.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but if untreated, it\Ninevitably leads to leukemia.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:51.48,0:17:53.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the trouble with all these diseases
Dialogue: 0,0:17:53.26,0:17:57.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is you never know that\Nyou've got every last cell.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:57.19,0:17:59.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can only detect\Ndown to a certain level.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:59.79,0:18:02.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But down to the level\Nthat anybody can detect
Dialogue: 0,0:18:02.29,0:18:06.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in terms of how I feel and\Nmy stamina and all that,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:06.00,0:18:07.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it seems to be gone.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:07.58,0:18:11.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm very lucky.\N- Because you had a sister
Dialogue: 0,0:18:11.78,0:18:15.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who enabled you to have\Na bone marrow transplant.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:15.58,0:18:16.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- That's one.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:16.42,0:18:19.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And also the enormous\Nadvances in scientific,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:19.82,0:18:23.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in medical science in\Njust the last few years.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:23.43,0:18:25.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If I had had this thing\Nfive or 10 years ago,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:25.77,0:18:27.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I would be dead, sure as shooting.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:27.73,0:18:30.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then, finally, the love\Nand support of my family.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:30.80,0:18:33.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,All of those played a central role.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:33.58,0:18:35.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- So you're optimistic?
Dialogue: 0,0:18:35.24,0:18:39.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- I'm very optimistic,\Nor at least very hopeful.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:40.17,0:18:43.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- And just share with us,\Nbecause of your sense of language
Dialogue: 0,0:18:43.66,0:18:47.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and your sense of understand\Nand being reflective
Dialogue: 0,0:18:48.47,0:18:51.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and introspective, what\Ndoes, what do you think about
Dialogue: 0,0:18:51.22,0:18:53.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and what does it do for you to--
Dialogue: 0,0:18:53.21,0:18:56.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- I didn't have any\Nnear death experiences,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:56.52,0:18:58.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I didn't have a religious conversion but--
Dialogue: 0,0:18:58.50,0:18:59.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- [Charlie] But you thought about
Dialogue: 0,0:18:59.33,0:19:00.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what it would be like to die?
Dialogue: 0,0:19:00.76,0:19:04.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Certainly and what it\Nwould be like for my family.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:04.23,0:19:08.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, I didn't much think about\Nwhat it would be like for me,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:08.83,0:19:11.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because I don't think it's\Nlikely there's anything
Dialogue: 0,0:19:11.82,0:19:14.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that you think about after you're dead.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:14.29,0:19:15.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- That's it?\N(laughing)
Dialogue: 0,0:19:15.49,0:19:17.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Yeah a long, dreamless sleep.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:17.06,0:19:18.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'd love to believe the opposite,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:18.50,0:19:19.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I don't know of any evidence.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:19.74,0:19:21.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But one thing.\N- Faith, Carl, faith.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:21.81,0:19:25.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- One thing that it has\Ndone is to enhance my sense
Dialogue: 0,0:19:27.64,0:19:31.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of appreciation for the beauty\Nof life and of the universe
Dialogue: 0,0:19:34.59,0:19:37.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the sheer joy of being alive.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:37.77,0:19:41.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- You had a healthy portion\Nof that before this,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:42.28,0:19:44.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but even you it happened to.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:44.72,0:19:46.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Oh, there's no question.\N- An appreciation--
Dialogue: 0,0:19:46.79,0:19:50.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Every moment, every inanimate object,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:51.60,0:19:55.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to say nothing of the exquisite\Ncomplexity of living beings.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:58.92,0:20:01.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah, you imagine missing it all
Dialogue: 0,0:20:01.46,0:20:04.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and suddenly it's so much more precious.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:04.42,0:20:05.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- [Charlie] May you live a long time.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:05.52,0:20:06.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you very much.\N- Thank you Charlie.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:06.60,0:20:07.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- It's a pleasure.\N- Same here.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:07.100,0:20:09.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- Carl Sagan.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:09.06,0:20:11.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Science as a candle in the dark.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:11.12,0:20:15.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The title of the book is\NA Demon-Haunted World.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:16.01,0:20:20.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you for joining us\Nwe'll see you next time.