1
00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:03,700
Rachel Greenstadt:
pressure on or from ISPs
2
00:02:03,700 --> 00:02:06,950
would make it difficult or impossible
to run an exit relay
3
00:02:06,950 --> 00:02:11,500
however the third point is the one that
I'm gonna mostly be talking about today:
4
00:02:11,500 --> 00:02:15,300
Tor is not very useful if you can't
actually use it to get anywhere
5
00:02:15,300 --> 00:02:18,200
and there is an increasing number of
prominent sites on the internet
6
00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:20,750
that are restricting what you
can do through Tor
7
00:02:20,750 --> 00:02:24,220
and in some cases Tor is outright blocked
8
00:02:24,220 --> 00:02:29,310
and in other cases you're slowed down
by CAPTCHAs and other ways
9
00:02:29,310 --> 00:02:33,799
to sort of make it annoying to visit
10
00:02:33,799 --> 00:02:35,660
so a brief overview of my talk
11
00:02:35,660 --> 00:02:37,970
I'm gonna give a little bit of
background on Tor
12
00:02:37,970 --> 00:02:41,940
and discuss how it's being blocked by
internet services today
13
00:02:41,940 --> 00:02:43,700
then I'm gonna talk about Wikipedia
14
00:02:43,700 --> 00:02:47,500
which is a service or a website,
you may have heard of it
15
00:02:47,500 --> 00:02:51,019
laughing
16
00:02:51,019 --> 00:02:53,530
that makes it difficult to edit
through Tor
17
00:02:53,530 --> 00:02:54,980
and I'm gonna talk about their
relationship
18
00:02:54,980 --> 00:02:57,260
and then I'm gonna discuss some of the
findings that we have
19
00:02:57,260 --> 00:03:02,640
from our interview-study of Tor users
and Wikipedians.
20
00:03:02,640 --> 00:03:05,390
So here is some examples of some things
that you might see
21
00:03:05,390 --> 00:03:07,510
when you are browsing with Tor these days.
22
00:03:07,510 --> 00:03:12,620
Now, it's worth pointing out that a lot of
these are not individual sites
23
00:03:12,620 --> 00:03:16,480
but rather content distribution networks,
like Cloudflare and Akamai
24
00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:20,170
or they're hosting providers like Bluehost
or anti-spam-block-plugins
25
00:03:20,170 --> 00:03:25,530
that sort of affects a huge, sort of swath
of sites on the internet, not just one.
26
00:03:25,530 --> 00:03:27,220
There are some individual sites
27
00:03:27,220 --> 00:03:31,340
say like Yelp, that provide their
own blocking
28
00:03:31,340 --> 00:03:35,090
but they tend to be somewhat
important sites
29
00:03:35,090 --> 00:03:37,040
So before I go any further
30
00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,500
I should probably disclose that I'm not
exactly a neutral party here
31
00:03:40,500 --> 00:03:41,980
I'm married to Roger Dingledine
32
00:03:41,980 --> 00:03:44,630
who is one of the founders
of the Tor project
33
00:03:44,630 --> 00:03:48,470
This work is part of a recent experiment
of mine, doing research related to Tor
34
00:03:48,470 --> 00:03:50,400
while remaining happily married
35
00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:52,660
so far so good!
36
00:03:52,660 --> 00:03:56,819
furthermore, this work uses qualitative
ethnographic methods
37
00:03:56,819 --> 00:04:01,430
which is a bit of a departure from the
machine learning work that I usually do
38
00:04:01,430 --> 00:04:04,900
mitigating both of these factor is my
wonderful co-author, Andrea Forte
39
00:04:04,900 --> 00:04:06,919
who is trained in ethnographic methods
40
00:04:06,919 --> 00:04:09,500
and conducted all of the interview that
I'm going to talk to you about
41
00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:17,789
So, when I was talking to Roger about this
talk, he said
42
00:04:17,789 --> 00:04:20,430
most people at CCC will have heard of Tor
by now
43
00:04:20,430 --> 00:04:22,180
I think that's probably true,
and they'll be aware that
44
00:04:22,180 --> 00:04:25,909
and they'll be aware that it hides something
about you when you're browsing the Internet
45
00:04:25,909 --> 00:04:32,280
but, they might be a bit fuzzy on some of
the details, so: very quick recap
46
00:04:32,280 --> 00:04:35,680
When Alice starts up Tor, her client
starts by fetching a list of relays
47
00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:36,680
from the directory server.
48
00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:43,680
Then, the Tor client is gonna pick a
three-hop path to the destination server.
49
00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:46,840
Hop 1 is gonna know who you are
but not where you're going.
50
00:04:46,840 --> 00:04:49,969
Then Hop 3 knows where you're going
but not who you are.
51
00:04:49,969 --> 00:04:52,280
Now there is a link encrypted
from you to hop 3,
52
00:04:52,280 --> 00:04:55,210
and then hop 3,
which is the exit relay,
53
00:04:55,210 --> 00:04:57,969
actually delivers your
request to a website.
54
00:04:57,969 --> 00:05:02,280
Now this part is not encrypted by Tor
and as far as the website is concerned,
55
00:05:02,280 --> 00:05:07,440
it is actually delivering a request from
the user at the exit relay
56
00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:11,500
usually when Tor users receive the
blocking screens that I've showed earlier
57
00:05:11,500 --> 00:05:14,810
it's because the website is blocking
the exit relay's IP address
58
00:05:14,810 --> 00:05:18,190
so this can happen either because the site
is deliberately blocking tor
59
00:05:18,190 --> 00:05:22,620
by downloading the directory and blocking
all of the Tor exit IP's
60
00:05:22,620 --> 00:05:24,680
or because someone did something
unpleasant
61
00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:26,919
through that exit relay in the past
62
00:05:26,919 --> 00:05:30,230
and it was put on a blocklist incidentally
63
00:05:32,510 --> 00:05:34,930
So there's been some research on this
phenomenon
64
00:05:34,930 --> 00:05:39,560
and here's some cutting-edge research that
hasn't actually even been presented yet
65
00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:43,500
it's going to be published in the NDSS
conference in February
66
00:05:43,500 --> 00:05:46,310
by the people up here
67
00:05:46,310 --> 00:05:50,430
and it's looking sort of quantitatively
about how prevalent
68
00:05:50,430 --> 00:05:51,930
this blocking problem is.
69
00:05:51,930 --> 00:06:00,230
We found that of the top 1000 Alexa
sites, 3.5% of them were actually blocked
70
00:06:00,230 --> 00:06:02,460
for Tor users.
71
00:06:02,460 --> 00:06:06,990
You can see on this list on the right:
most of the blocking is due to
72
00:06:06,990 --> 00:06:11,330
aggregate blockers like these hosting
companies and CDNs
73
00:06:11,330 --> 00:06:13,700
it's also the case that most of the sites
74
00:06:13,700 --> 00:06:16,810
didn't actually
block 100% of the exit nodes
75
00:06:16,810 --> 00:06:19,520
But the bigger the exit is bandwidth wise
76
00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:21,520
thus the higher probability to be
exiting from it
77
00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:23,520
the more likely it was to be blocked
78
00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:28,969
so this graph shows of 2000 block sites
from Ooni data
79
00:06:28,969 --> 00:06:31,520
given the exit node and how probable
it was
80
00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,189
that that exit node would be blocked.
81
00:06:35,519 --> 00:06:39,440
So one website that blocks Tor users
is Wikipedia
82
00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:42,399
Now Wikipedia doesn't actually Tor users
from reading Wikipedia
83
00:06:42,399 --> 00:06:45,599
which is very useful because it's a
resource that's important
84
00:06:45,599 --> 00:06:48,770
for lots of people to be able to reach,
sometimes anonymously
85
00:06:48,770 --> 00:06:51,140
but it does prevent them from editing.
86
00:06:51,140 --> 00:06:53,390
That's true even if they're logged in.
87
00:06:53,390 --> 00:06:57,190
So according to Wikipedia,
Wikipedia is a free access,
88
00:06:57,190 --> 00:07:00,020
free content Internet encyclopedia
supported and hosted by the
89
00:07:00,020 --> 00:07:02,789
non-profit Wikimedia Foundation
90
00:07:02,789 --> 00:07:05,839
Those who can access this site can
edit most of its articles
91
00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:08,399
and Wikipedia is ranked among the ten most
popular websites
92
00:07:08,399 --> 00:07:12,809
and constitutes the Internet's largest and
most popular general reference work
93
00:07:12,809 --> 00:07:18,559
So right now, y'know, from our vantage
point eight years...
94
00:07:18,799 --> 00:07:22,820
since this quote in 2007
in probably about...
95
00:07:22,820 --> 00:07:28,010
I'm not actually sure when Wikipedia was
founded, but some years after
96
00:07:28,010 --> 00:07:31,959
it's hard to realize what a radical idea
Wikipedia once was
97
00:07:31,959 --> 00:07:35,950
this encyclopedia that can be edited by,
well, almost anyone
98
00:07:35,950 --> 00:07:37,839
in 2007 the New York Times said:
99
00:07:37,839 --> 00:07:40,830
"The problem with WIkipedia is that it
only works in practice.
100
00:07:40,830 --> 00:07:43,839
In theory, it can never work."
101
00:07:46,039 --> 00:07:49,149
There's some sort of miracle,
that Wikipedia manages to be
102
00:07:49,149 --> 00:07:51,820
the resource it is, and it's the sort of
thing that researchers
103
00:07:51,820 --> 00:07:54,190
and economists have tried to explain
104
00:07:54,190 --> 00:07:56,209
and they've tried to explain it in the
same way they explain
105
00:07:56,209 --> 00:07:58,240
the Linux kernel
106
00:08:01,780 --> 00:08:04,950
this thing happens and nobody quite knows
why
107
00:08:04,950 --> 00:08:09,310
and it makes Wikipedians today a little
nervous about and conservative perhaps
108
00:08:09,310 --> 00:08:13,890
about anything that could rock the boat,
affect the quality of the encyclopedia
109
00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:18,310
but the fact is that Wikipedia needs its
contributors to continue to
110
00:08:18,310 --> 00:08:20,700
update, expand and improve the resource
111
00:08:20,700 --> 00:08:26,640
Wikipedia contributions peaked in 2007 and
have been in a slow and steady decline
112
00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:32,929
so this graph above shows the number of
active registered editors
113
00:08:32,929 --> 00:08:37,159
who've edited more than 5 edits per month
as plotted over time
114
00:08:37,159 --> 00:08:40,949
and you can see this peak that happens
in 2007
115
00:08:42,399 --> 00:08:45,190
the reasons behind this decline are
actually an active area of research
116
00:08:45,190 --> 00:08:51,250
in their area of concern for the
Wikimedia foundation and so on
117
00:08:51,250 --> 00:08:54,880
the upshot of it is that Wikipedia can't
exactly afford to
118
00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:56,820
just throw away good editors.
119
00:08:57,690 --> 00:09:00,200
Aside from the general decline in
participation
120
00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:04,160
there's Wikipedia's sort of demographic
imbalance
121
00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:06,430
Wikipedia editors are 84-91% male
122
00:09:06,430 --> 00:09:08,510
depending on how you count
123
00:09:08,510 --> 00:09:10,510
and there is also a lot of
under-representation
124
00:09:10,510 --> 00:09:12,709
from global south countries
125
00:09:12,709 --> 00:09:16,019
and there's been a little bit of research
to show how this affects the quality
126
00:09:16,019 --> 00:09:17,649
of the encyclopedia.
127
00:09:17,649 --> 00:09:19,840
There's a group of researchers from the
?Groveland's? group at
128
00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:24,479
the university of Minnesota
and they were interested in this question
129
00:09:24,479 --> 00:09:28,589
they had access to a database of movie-
ratings and the gender of the raters
130
00:09:28,589 --> 00:09:31,899
so they compared the length of articles
about movies that were
131
00:09:31,899 --> 00:09:36,070
disproportionately rated by men or women
while controlling for the popularity
132
00:09:36,070 --> 00:09:37,720
and the rating of the movie
133
00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:40,899
and in this case they showed that
male-skewing movies
134
00:09:40,899 --> 00:09:45,420
had articles that were much longer than
articles about female-skewing movies
135
00:09:45,420 --> 00:09:49,779
independent of these popularity and
rating effects.
136
00:09:49,779 --> 00:09:53,760
Now, maybe articles about movies, it's
kind of a trivial thing,
137
00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:59,959
but it kind of shows you that the editor
population affects article categories
138
00:09:59,959 --> 00:10:04,180
that might be harder to measure
in such a rigorous way.
139
00:10:04,180 --> 00:10:07,740
it made us wonder how the absence of
Tor user editors
140
00:10:07,740 --> 00:10:09,579
affects the quality of the encyclopedia
141
00:10:09,579 --> 00:10:13,160
and if there's a similar skew that you
might be able to see.
142
00:10:16,650 --> 00:10:19,610
To help understand and answer this
question, it's worth asking
143
00:10:19,610 --> 00:10:22,760
what a Wikipedian would
get out of using Tor.
144
00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:26,060
This question is actually one that has
people kind of confused because
145
00:10:26,060 --> 00:10:31,659
a lot of people see Tor as a tool that you
use to hide who you are to a website
146
00:10:32,809 --> 00:10:35,170
and basically no one at Wikipedia is at
all interested
147
00:10:35,170 --> 00:10:38,660
in letting Tor users Wikipedia without
logging in at all.
148
00:10:38,660 --> 00:10:42,440
However Tor provides some benefits to
users, even when they're logged in
149
00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:45,210
and thus not hiding from Wikipedia.
150
00:10:45,210 --> 00:10:48,840
In particular it protects against certain
surveillance by your local ISP
151
00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:54,100
or administrative domain, and it can also
protect against government surveillance.
152
00:10:54,100 --> 00:10:56,830
Furthermore it prevents your IP-address
from being stored
153
00:10:56,830 --> 00:11:02,220
in the Wikipedia database of user IPs that
can be accessed by administrators
154
00:11:02,220 --> 00:11:04,470
and attackers.
155
00:11:04,470 --> 00:11:08,570
We've all seen plenty of cases where
attackers get access
156
00:11:08,570 --> 00:11:11,130
to databases they're not supposed to.
157
00:11:12,250 --> 00:11:18,240
Another property that is probably more
easy to think about is reachability.
158
00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:22,130
Internet connections could be censored,
and Tor might be the only method of
159
00:11:22,130 --> 00:11:24,560
actually accessing Wikipedia.
160
00:11:24,560 --> 00:11:28,250
And lastly a lot of Tor users use Tor for
all of their Internet use
161
00:11:28,250 --> 00:11:32,730
as a mechanism to diversify the user base
and provide cover for and solidarity with
162
00:11:32,730 --> 00:11:36,880
users that might need Tor for a
different purpose.
163
00:11:38,630 --> 00:11:44,900
So participation in Internet projects and
open source projects can be dangerous.
164
00:11:44,900 --> 00:11:47,530
Consider the case of Bassel Khartabil
165
00:11:47,530 --> 00:11:50,130
who's a well-known Wikipedia editor,
open source software developer
166
00:11:50,130 --> 00:11:53,260
and the founder of Creative Commons Syria.
167
00:11:53,260 --> 00:11:58,620
He was jailed for three years and he's now
disappeared, a lot of people think he's dead
168
00:11:58,620 --> 00:12:02,230
he's very well known for having founded
the New Palmyra project
169
00:12:02,230 --> 00:12:06,560
which uses satellite and high-resolution
imagery to create open 3d models
170
00:12:06,560 --> 00:12:07,820
of ancient structures.
171
00:12:07,820 --> 00:12:12,320
Now these structures were raided by Daesh,
sometimes called ISIS, some time in 2015
172
00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:17,050
and so this work that he's done is our
best record of these structures
173
00:12:17,050 --> 00:12:18,720
that now exist.
174
00:12:20,750 --> 00:12:26,360
In another case, Jimmy Wales announced in
2015 that the Wikipedian of the year could
175
00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:31,540
not be revealed publicly, because to do so
would actually put the person in danger.
176
00:12:31,540 --> 00:12:34,890
So, the Wikimedia foundation is also
aware that there are some cases
177
00:12:34,890 --> 00:12:38,620
where editors need privacy.
178
00:12:39,180 --> 00:12:43,400
So then, with all these risks, that
Wikipedians face, and the benefits
179
00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:45,840
that Tor can provide,
why would it be blocked?
180
00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:48,570
Well, it comes down to abuse.
181
00:12:48,570 --> 00:12:51,750
The problem of jerks is a real problem
on the Internet.
182
00:12:51,750 --> 00:12:55,440
Though the research is somewhat ambiguous
as to the degree at which it's actually
183
00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:56,660
made worse by anonymity,
184
00:12:56,660 --> 00:13:02,230
there's this very popular theory on the
Internet that if you take a normal person
185
00:13:02,230 --> 00:13:07,110
and anonymity and an audience,
they become a total dickwad.
186
00:13:07,210 --> 00:13:11,110
Nonetheless, managing abuse is actually
somewhat harder
187
00:13:11,110 --> 00:13:14,250
with anonymous participants, and there's
certainly this perception that
188
00:13:14,250 --> 00:13:19,000
anonymity can make people more
susceptible to abusive behavior.
189
00:13:22,130 --> 00:13:25,040
Fortunately the cryptographic
research community has studied
190
00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:27,600
how to reconcile anonymity and
blacklisting of users
191
00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:30,880
and has found some pretty promising
solutions.
192
00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:35,670
The first, which I'll discuss briefly here
is Apu Kapadia's Nymble design.
193
00:13:35,670 --> 00:13:40,040
There have been many variants of this,
including Nymbler, ?Jackbenable?, Jack,
194
00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:42,120
you get the idea.
195
00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:46,840
Basically when Alice wants to contribute
anonymously to a website or a project
196
00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:49,970
she uses a pseudonym server to get
a pseudonym.
197
00:13:49,970 --> 00:13:53,550
Then she gives that 'nym to a
nym-manager
198
00:13:53,550 --> 00:13:55,779
and that nym-manager
gives her a ticket.
199
00:13:55,779 --> 00:13:59,450
That ticket is then used to connect to the
site she wants to participate on,
200
00:13:59,450 --> 00:14:03,069
so it's another way to sort of distribute
the trust.
201
00:14:03,339 --> 00:14:07,340
But our Alice is a jerk, so
she vandalizes the website.
202
00:14:07,430 --> 00:14:10,760
The website then complains to the Nymble
manager which will then send the server
203
00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:14,089
a token that can be used to link that user
in the future.
204
00:14:14,089 --> 00:14:16,980
The server then adds the user to a
blacklist.
205
00:14:18,740 --> 00:14:21,720
So basically the way that this works is
that everything the user has done
206
00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:24,820
before the complaint still remains
anonymous forever,
207
00:14:24,820 --> 00:14:28,170
but everything that they do in the future
is linkable
208
00:14:28,170 --> 00:14:31,290
and thus it remains easier to block them.
209
00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:37,090
There has basically been no adoption of
this kind of protocol,
210
00:14:37,090 --> 00:14:40,160
despite a lot of iterations in the
literature.
211
00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:42,560
There are some reasons for this:
212
00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:45,380
many of the variants have no
implementation, and those that do
213
00:14:45,380 --> 00:14:48,050
it's research code and as the author
of some research code...
214
00:14:48,050 --> 00:14:50,949
I can tell you that there would be
significant work involved in
215
00:14:50,949 --> 00:14:53,140
actually adopting these measures.
216
00:14:53,140 --> 00:14:56,380
And there is a price to be paid. You have
pick between either having
217
00:14:56,380 --> 00:15:00,480
a semi-trusted third party, degraded
notions of privacy,
218
00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:02,950
so basically pseudonymity
rather than anonymity,
219
00:15:02,950 --> 00:15:05,240
or high computational overhead
220
00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:08,160
because zero-knowledge proofs are
still kind of expensive.
221
00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:11,960
But it could well be done, and it's not
like you need all of these things,
222
00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:13,360
you only need one,
223
00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:17,870
but ultimately it isn't being done, and I
think this is because most sites
224
00:15:17,870 --> 00:15:23,060
don't really care. They believe that the
number of non-jerks might not be zero,
225
00:15:23,060 --> 00:15:28,350
but it's approximately zero,
and it's just not worth the bother.
226
00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:33,680
So we're interested in measuring this
value of anonymous participation
227
00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:37,740
to sort of provide motivation for sites to
actually try and solve these problems.
228
00:15:37,990 --> 00:15:42,120
It's not a terribly easy thing to do,
because Tor is blocked so often
229
00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:45,050
we're actually trying to measure
participation that doesn't happen,
230
00:15:45,050 --> 00:15:47,490
that might happen under
alternate circumstances.
231
00:15:47,490 --> 00:15:51,300
To ask this question we turned to
qualitative methods, which is
232
00:15:51,300 --> 00:15:53,020
basically an interview study.
233
00:15:53,020 --> 00:15:56,429
We talked to Tor users who participate in
open collaboration, and we talked to
234
00:15:56,429 --> 00:15:58,990
Wikipedia editors about their privacy
concerns.
235
00:16:01,510 --> 00:16:03,649
So we have two basic research questions:
236
00:16:03,649 --> 00:16:05,839
first, what kind of threats do
contributors
237
00:16:05,839 --> 00:16:09,899
to open collaboration projects perceive,
and second:
238
00:16:09,899 --> 00:16:13,850
how do people who contribute to open
collaboration projects manage the risk?
239
00:16:13,850 --> 00:16:16,990
The goal here is to get the kind of
in-depth and qualitative
240
00:16:16,990 --> 00:16:19,490
understanding that will help us to ask
the right questions
241
00:16:19,490 --> 00:16:23,000
in a larger scale study, and ensure that
we're solving the right problems
242
00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:28,069
when we design systems to facilitate
anonymous participation in online projects
243
00:16:29,219 --> 00:16:30,970
As ?Cera McDonald? Pikelet said:
244
00:16:30,970 --> 00:16:36,470
"They're not anecdotes, that's small
batch artisanal data..."
245
00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:42,730
So a little bit about our 23 participants
in our study
246
00:16:42,730 --> 00:16:45,339
We had 12 participants that were Tor users
247
00:16:45,339 --> 00:16:50,640
8 males, 3 females and 1 of fluid gender.
248
00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:55,410
The minimum age was 18, the maximum age
was 41 and the average was 30.
249
00:16:55,410 --> 00:17:01,020
3 people with a high school education, 4
current and graduated undergraduates
250
00:17:01,020 --> 00:17:07,048
and 5 people with post-graduate degrees or
who were graduate students.
251
00:17:08,398 --> 00:17:13,279
The location: 7 of the participants were
from the U.S. but we also had
252
00:17:13,279 --> 00:17:18,699
participants from Australia, Belgium,
Canada, South Africa and Sweden.
253
00:17:18,959 --> 00:17:26,169
For the Wikimedia participants, we had
again 8 males and 3 females.
254
00:17:26,169 --> 00:17:31,649
Actually I think the demographics of Tor
and Wikimedia might not be too different.
255
00:17:31,649 --> 00:17:37,159
The minimum age was 20 and the max was 53,
again the average was 30.
256
00:17:37,159 --> 00:17:42,360
One didn't report their education level,
we had 8 people with bachelor's degrees
257
00:17:42,360 --> 00:17:47,330
or undergraduate students, and 2 graduate
students or people with graduate degrees.
258
00:17:47,330 --> 00:17:51,620
Again we had 5 participants from the U.S.,
but we also had participants from
259
00:17:51,620 --> 00:17:56,309
Australia, France, Ghana, Israel
and the U.K. in this case.
260
00:17:56,309 --> 00:18:00,740
So we didn't have - a lot of people talked
to us - we didn't have any participants
261
00:18:00,740 --> 00:18:05,559
from places like Iran or China, though we
did have some Iranians who were
262
00:18:05,559 --> 00:18:08,520
living in the U.S. who talked to us.
263
00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:12,230
So types of participation
264
00:18:12,230 --> 00:18:15,489
Obviously we had Wikipedians,
we sought them out
265
00:18:15,489 --> 00:18:18,440
a number of the people that we talked
to, especially the Tor users
266
00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:21,310
who actually contribute to
the Tor project in some way
267
00:18:21,310 --> 00:18:24,559
but we asked people about their other
participation on the Internet,
268
00:18:24,559 --> 00:18:28,300
especially Tor users, and we found that
there are a lot of people that participate
269
00:18:28,300 --> 00:18:34,000
through adding web comments, participating
on forums, using Twitter...
270
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:37,740
contributing open source code to projects
on Github or Sourceforge
271
00:18:37,740 --> 00:18:40,850
or other projects on the Internet, helping
with the Internet archive
272
00:18:40,850 --> 00:18:46,100
or contributing to image boards...
to sites that do that.
273
00:18:46,100 --> 00:18:50,120
So our interview protocol: we gave 20
dollars in compensation,
274
00:18:50,120 --> 00:18:51,480
gift cards or cash.
275
00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:58,200
30% of people declined this because we
would need to register their participation
276
00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:02,809
if we give them compensation, and some
people didn't want there to be
277
00:19:02,809 --> 00:19:03,980
as much of a record.
278
00:19:03,980 --> 00:19:07,509
We spoke to people over the phone, using
Skype, using
279
00:19:07,509 --> 00:19:11,809
various encrypted audio mechanisms,
one person was interviewed face to face.
280
00:19:11,809 --> 00:19:14,669
The interviews were again conducted by
Andrea Forte
281
00:19:14,669 --> 00:19:19,260
and we asked people to tell in-depth
stories and prompted them for detail.
282
00:19:19,690 --> 00:19:23,630
Our analysis of this is ongoing, it's
not done,
283
00:19:24,310 --> 00:19:28,319
we've transcribed all the interviews,
we've coded them to identify the themes
284
00:19:28,319 --> 00:19:30,480
and we grouped and merged some of these
themes.
285
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:34,009
I'm going to talk to you about some of the
stuff that came out of this study,
286
00:19:34,009 --> 00:19:37,009
give some quotes and things like that.
287
00:19:37,579 --> 00:19:38,520
Interview topics.
288
00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:42,299
For Tor users we asked them to explain Tor
and what it's for. We asked for some
289
00:19:42,299 --> 00:19:44,879
current and retrospective examples of use,
290
00:19:44,879 --> 00:19:48,169
the story of how and why they first
started using Tor,
291
00:19:48,169 --> 00:19:52,139
and some examples of when they use Tor
online and when they don't use Tor online
292
00:19:52,139 --> 00:19:55,489
and some questions about their
participation in online projects
293
00:19:55,489 --> 00:19:59,480
and if they participate in Wikipedia we
asked them some of the Wikipedia questions
294
00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:02,249
similarly with Wikipedia people who had
used Tor.
295
00:20:02,249 --> 00:20:05,560
And there was some considerable overlap.
296
00:20:06,590 --> 00:20:09,640
For Wikipedians we asked how and why they
started editing,
297
00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:12,289
examples of privacy concerns associated
with their editing,
298
00:20:12,289 --> 00:20:15,169
steps they may have taken to protect their
privacy when editing,
299
00:20:15,169 --> 00:20:18,450
and examples of interactions with other
editors.
300
00:20:18,820 --> 00:20:24,170
Now, there's some real limitations with
this work:
301
00:20:24,450 --> 00:20:28,210
we may be missing participants with severe
privacy concerns.
302
00:20:28,940 --> 00:20:32,519
Anybody who participate in this would have
talk to unknown parties
303
00:20:32,519 --> 00:20:36,700
that they couldn't necessarily trust that
we were not going to do
304
00:20:36,700 --> 00:20:40,199
any nefarious things with their interview.
305
00:20:40,279 --> 00:20:43,769
They need to speak remotely over a
communications channel in most cases
306
00:20:43,769 --> 00:20:48,909
we were willing to conduct some interviews
over various encrypted channels
307
00:20:48,909 --> 00:20:51,950
such as Jitsi or really whatever people
wanted us to do,
308
00:20:51,950 --> 00:20:53,519
as long as we could set it up.
309
00:20:53,519 --> 00:20:56,500
Though we didn't mention Skype in our
recruitment materials,
310
00:20:56,500 --> 00:20:59,899
and this actually caused a bit of a
kerfuffle on the Tor blog
311
00:20:59,899 --> 00:21:04,700
when people were saying we clearly don't
understand Tor
312
00:21:04,700 --> 00:21:08,399
and have no familiarity with the project
if we're even thinking of using Skype
313
00:21:08,399 --> 00:21:14,099
I know a couple of Tor users and Tor
developers that use Skype, so...
314
00:21:14,179 --> 00:21:17,809
but, y'know, we were willing to
use other things,
315
00:21:17,809 --> 00:21:20,700
and we again didn't talk to residents of
Iran or China,
316
00:21:20,700 --> 00:21:25,319
which is something that a lot of people
told us might be of interest.
317
00:21:25,319 --> 00:21:28,459
So, what does anonymity actually mean to a
318
00:21:28,459 --> 00:21:32,040
Wikipedian, was an interesting question.
Because it doesn't mean the same thing
319
00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:36,999
that it usually means to a Tor user. So,
a lot of times when people talk about
320
00:21:36,999 --> 00:21:40,440
anonymous edits in Wikipedia they mean
editing without logging in.
321
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:45,649
And this is actually called IP editing to
Wikipedians, because what happens when you
322
00:21:45,649 --> 00:21:50,820
edit Wikipedia without logging in is that
the IP address is actually published
323
00:21:50,820 --> 00:21:53,409
as the author of that edit.
324
00:21:53,409 --> 00:21:57,450
The other thing that people mean when
they talk about editing anonymously is
325
00:21:57,450 --> 00:22:01,399
editing under a synonymous account while
not leaving clues about your identity.
326
00:22:03,300 --> 00:22:06,250
The notion of IP editing is somewhat
problematic.
327
00:22:06,500 --> 00:22:10,289
This was an article from Buzzfeed about
328
00:22:10,289 --> 00:22:15,879
the 33 most embarassing congressional
edits to member's Wikipedia pages.
329
00:22:15,879 --> 00:22:20,960
The congressional offices in the U.S. all
share one IP address,
330
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:24,200
so you can simply search Wikipedia for
that IP address
331
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,980
and you can find people making revisions,
332
00:22:26,980 --> 00:22:32,379
for example to the liberty caucus
Wikipedia site and so on.
333
00:22:34,259 --> 00:22:39,659
So in terms of content-based anonymity,
according to the Wikipedians we talked to,
334
00:22:39,659 --> 00:22:42,490
most deanonymisation is done actually by
contextual clues.
335
00:22:42,490 --> 00:22:45,779
When people are outed as being this
pseudonymous Wikipedia person,
336
00:22:45,779 --> 00:22:48,229
it's usually because somebody
looked up things.
337
00:22:48,229 --> 00:22:49,960
There was a quote, someone said:
338
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:53,590
"these is small things but I usually
wouldn't edit things relating to my school
339
00:22:53,590 --> 00:22:55,909
or places near where I lived
when I was logged in.
340
00:22:55,909 --> 00:22:58,720
It's actually weirdly easy to piece
together someone's identity
341
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,220
based on the location or things like that"
342
00:23:01,220 --> 00:23:04,279
So Tor, it's worth pointing out the limits
of what Tor can do
343
00:23:04,279 --> 00:23:07,920
Tor is not gonna help with this particular
problem
344
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:09,320
it will hide your IP address
345
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:13,850
but not necessarily this.
346
00:23:16,310 --> 00:23:19,070
What is the Wikipedia policy on Tor?
347
00:23:19,070 --> 00:23:23,590
Mediawiki has a TorBlock extension, which
automatically blocks editing through Tor
348
00:23:23,590 --> 00:23:27,570
Now, it's possible to actually get an
exemption,
349
00:23:27,570 --> 00:23:31,970
what is called an IP block exemption, and
registered users in good standing
350
00:23:31,970 --> 00:23:33,559
can ask for one.
351
00:23:33,559 --> 00:23:36,789
The problem is, it's a little bit hard to
establish that standing
352
00:23:36,789 --> 00:23:41,249
it requires editing without using Tor.
353
00:23:41,739 --> 00:23:49,159
When pointed out that this is particularly
problematic for censored users,
354
00:23:49,159 --> 00:23:52,279
because they can't access Wikipedia to
edit in the first place,
355
00:23:52,279 --> 00:23:56,720
although they do provide some closed
proxies for Chinese users in particular,
356
00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:00,309
there are a lot of censored users that
aren't Chinese but...
357
00:24:00,309 --> 00:24:04,499
you can contact them to ask to use their
sort of secret proxies.
358
00:24:04,499 --> 00:24:06,909
I don't know how well this actually works.
359
00:24:06,909 --> 00:24:11,700
But we did ask our interviewees, can
Wikipedia be edited through Tor?
360
00:24:11,700 --> 00:24:15,649
Which is an interesting question. So,
as a convention for the rest of the talk
361
00:24:15,649 --> 00:24:19,109
when you see these blue boxes, they are
gonna be quotes from Wikipedians,
362
00:24:19,109 --> 00:24:22,009
when you see the green boxes, they're
quotes from Tor users.
363
00:24:22,009 --> 00:24:27,400
When we asked people, the WIkipedians
often said: if the account exists,
364
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:31,019
yes, when you're doing an anonymous edit
with Tor it's really difficult
365
00:24:31,969 --> 00:24:34,450
they mean an IP edit there.
And then he said:
366
00:24:34,450 --> 00:24:36,469
I had one that came
through the mailing list
367
00:24:36,469 --> 00:24:39,289
in the last couple of weeks, and that
their employer had been
368
00:24:39,289 --> 00:24:41,700
checking up on them... we allowed that.
369
00:24:41,700 --> 00:24:45,349
So as an administrator I have a user bot
that allows me to get around that,
370
00:24:45,349 --> 00:24:49,459
but as well as feeling bad about that,
other people don't have that option.
371
00:24:50,759 --> 00:24:55,440
From a Tor user, we actually said: but
sometimes, like every so many exit nodes,
372
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:57,999
you sometimes one have works...
so many sites block Tor,
373
00:24:57,999 --> 00:25:01,259
try to block it, it's quite annoying as
you're trying to do something.
374
00:25:01,259 --> 00:25:05,969
So this person sort of... saw what... in
the research of blocking Tor,
375
00:25:05,969 --> 00:25:09,419
not every exit node is blocked, so if
you're really determined to make that
376
00:25:09,419 --> 00:25:15,389
anonymous edit, you can just keep clicking
'New Identity' and get there.
377
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:20,130
And then they said: we do sometimes let
people edit through them,
378
00:25:20,130 --> 00:25:23,139
I know we have users in China coming
through the Great Firewall
379
00:25:23,139 --> 00:25:25,139
and stuff like that.
380
00:25:25,249 --> 00:25:29,179
So then ...
[[ audio cuts out for 4 seconds ]]
381
00:25:29,179 --> 00:25:35,820
Tor user, y'know, well they...
[[ audio cuts out for 16 seconds ]]
382
00:25:35,820 --> 00:25:55,070
[[ audio cuts out for 16 seconds ]]
383
00:25:55,070 --> 00:25:59,670
[[ 5 seconds audio cut remaining ]]
384
00:25:59,670 --> 00:26:01,099
...things like that.
385
00:26:01,099 --> 00:26:04,340
So because you can change your IP address
with the click of a button,
386
00:26:04,340 --> 00:26:07,910
it's very difficult to prevent abuse.
387
00:26:09,110 --> 00:26:14,189
There's this sort of notion that maybe
it's important for vandalism,
388
00:26:14,189 --> 00:26:17,789
but maybe that's a problem, and maybe
there should be something that be done.
389
00:26:17,789 --> 00:26:20,799
So then, a lot of what asked people about
was sort of the threats
390
00:26:20,799 --> 00:26:23,779
that they were concerned about, from a
data privacy perspective.
391
00:26:23,779 --> 00:26:27,899
People talked about government threats,
businesses, organized crime,
392
00:26:27,899 --> 00:26:32,579
private citizens, other project members,
and project outsiders.
393
00:26:32,759 --> 00:26:38,179
When we group the threats, we found sort
of five or so big threats
394
00:26:38,179 --> 00:26:41,940
that lots of people talked about, we had
twelve different instances of
395
00:26:41,940 --> 00:26:45,389
people talking about surveillance concerns
or general concerns about
396
00:26:45,389 --> 00:26:47,739
the loss of privacy.
397
00:26:47,739 --> 00:26:50,969
Ten people talked specifically about the
loss of employment
398
00:26:50,969 --> 00:26:55,979
or economic opportunity that might happen,
9 people talked about bullying,
399
00:26:55,979 --> 00:26:59,700
harassment, intimidation, stalking,
this sort of thing.
400
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:04,429
Another 9 people talked about personal
safety, or the safety of their loved ones.
401
00:27:04,429 --> 00:27:10,100
6 people that we talked to, talked about
reputation loss.
402
00:27:10,100 --> 00:27:12,909
I'll get into these in more detail.
403
00:27:13,309 --> 00:27:14,679
Surveillance.
404
00:27:14,679 --> 00:27:18,090
Y'know, in my country there is basically
unknown surveillance going on
405
00:27:18,090 --> 00:27:21,369
and I don't know what providers to use,
and at some point I decided to
406
00:27:21,369 --> 00:27:22,619
use Tor for everything.
407
00:27:22,619 --> 00:27:25,919
It's worth pointing out given the list of
countries I gave that
408
00:27:25,919 --> 00:27:30,850
this isn't necessarily the list and...
I think you wouldn't get this list of
409
00:27:30,850 --> 00:27:36,320
kinda quotes maybe before the Snowden
revelations about generalized surveillance
410
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:38,029
across the world.
411
00:27:38,029 --> 00:27:41,160
A lot of people talked about how their
online activities were
412
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:45,140
being accessed or logged without their
consent, and especially among
413
00:27:45,140 --> 00:27:47,669
Tor users there was this
notion of wanting to be
414
00:27:47,669 --> 00:27:51,189
public by effort, but private by default.
415
00:27:51,319 --> 00:27:57,049
And when you talk to Wikipedians, they
talked about their edit histories and how
416
00:27:57,049 --> 00:28:01,299
the edit histories themselves might be
somewhat sensitive.
417
00:28:03,809 --> 00:28:06,799
In terms of loss of employment...
418
00:28:06,799 --> 00:28:13,049
many many employers now look at your
online footprint before they hire you.
419
00:28:13,049 --> 00:28:16,719
According to Monster, one of the big
employment websites,
420
00:28:16,719 --> 00:28:20,730
77% of employers google perspective
employees.
421
00:28:22,180 --> 00:28:26,810
From a Tor user, we had someone talk about
"I am transgender, I am queer, my boss
422
00:28:26,810 --> 00:28:30,369
would rant for hours about this kind of
person, that kind of person, the other
423
00:28:30,369 --> 00:28:34,179
kind of person, all of which I happen to
be... and I decided if I was going to do
424
00:28:34,179 --> 00:28:37,829
anything online at all, I better look into
options for protecting myself, because
425
00:28:37,829 --> 00:28:40,179
I didn't want to get fired."
426
00:28:40,179 --> 00:28:44,529
In Wikipedia, someone said: "A friend of
mine was also involved in this discussion
427
00:28:44,529 --> 00:28:47,910
and he actually got it worse than I did.
He's in a position now where
428
00:28:47,910 --> 00:28:52,110
anyone who googles him finds allegations
that he is this awful monster, and
429
00:28:52,110 --> 00:28:55,369
he's terrified of having to look for work
now because you google him,
430
00:28:55,369 --> 00:28:57,379
and that's what you find.
431
00:28:57,379 --> 00:29:01,750
So these things can have a real impact
on people. So...
432
00:29:01,790 --> 00:29:05,989
and then there is harassment. So this is
a quote from a Wikipedian who said:
433
00:29:05,989 --> 00:29:10,239
"I would say that the fear of harassment
of real, of stalking and things like that
434
00:29:10,239 --> 00:29:13,539
is quite substantial, at least among
administrators I know,
435
00:29:13,539 --> 00:29:15,309
especially women."
436
00:29:15,309 --> 00:29:18,519
From a Tor user there was someone who
talked about "this is a map
437
00:29:18,519 --> 00:29:21,989
of active hate groups in the
United States"
438
00:29:21,989 --> 00:29:25,609
and how they had experienced problems
with these hate groups in the past
439
00:29:25,609 --> 00:29:29,519
and they wanted to see who was active in
their area, and they would
440
00:29:29,519 --> 00:29:33,320
go to the websites of these hate groups
and sort of for obvious reasons
441
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:37,549
they didn't want their home IP address
to appear in the logs of these
442
00:29:37,549 --> 00:29:40,179
hate group websites.
443
00:29:42,889 --> 00:29:46,759
Safety of loved ones,
also personal safety.
444
00:29:47,179 --> 00:29:51,499
A lot of people talked about, y'know,
real, concrete, not just threats but
445
00:29:51,499 --> 00:29:54,779
things that had happened to them or to
people that they knew.
446
00:29:54,779 --> 00:29:59,129
In Tor there is this story: they bursted
his door down and
447
00:29:59,129 --> 00:30:02,149
they beat the ever living crap out of him.
He was hospitalized
448
00:30:02,149 --> 00:30:05,850
for two and a half weeks, and they told
him: "if you and your family wanna live,
449
00:30:05,850 --> 00:30:07,840
you're gonna have to stop causing trouble"
450
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:09,570
and they said that to him in farsee.
451
00:30:09,570 --> 00:30:12,750
I have a family so after I visited him
in the hospital, I started...
452
00:30:12,750 --> 00:30:15,909
well at first I started shaking, and I
went into a cold sweat
453
00:30:15,909 --> 00:30:20,019
and then I realized I have to start taking
my human rights activities
454
00:30:20,019 --> 00:30:22,459
into other identities through
the Tor network.
455
00:30:22,869 --> 00:30:24,659
And on the Wikipedia side:
456
00:30:24,659 --> 00:30:28,229
"I pulled back from some of that Wikipedia
work when I could no longer hide
457
00:30:28,229 --> 00:30:32,179
in quite the same way. For a long time I
lived on my own, so it's just my own
458
00:30:32,179 --> 00:30:36,049
personal risk I was taking with things,
now my wife lives here as well
459
00:30:36,049 --> 00:30:37,699
and I can't take that same risk."
460
00:30:41,329 --> 00:30:45,619
Lastly, people were concerned about
reputation loss.
461
00:30:45,619 --> 00:30:52,179
In Wikipedia there has been known to be
edit wars that escalate into vendettas
462
00:30:52,179 --> 00:30:55,879
here's a sort of example of an edit war
where y'know some user says:
463
00:30:55,879 --> 00:31:03,779
"I hate big bitch Alison," who is then
blocked indefinitely by Alison.
464
00:31:03,779 --> 00:31:07,220
People are worried about this sort of
thing escalating and then somebody
465
00:31:07,220 --> 00:31:12,179
doing something off of the Internet to
call them names, or mess with their
466
00:31:12,179 --> 00:31:15,599
reputation... and that would have a
negative effect on their life.
467
00:31:15,599 --> 00:31:21,919
In Tor there is a couple interesting cases
that sort of concerns guilt by association
468
00:31:21,919 --> 00:31:24,529
So there is someone who participates on
image boards,
469
00:31:24,529 --> 00:31:27,059
on 8chan or infinite chan,
470
00:31:27,059 --> 00:31:31,380
and I don't know if you guys are that
aware of this... it's sort of the place
471
00:31:31,380 --> 00:31:34,310
which was kind of started by people that
were blocked by 4chan,
472
00:31:34,310 --> 00:31:36,830
so it's the people that 4chan think are
kind of sketchy
473
00:31:36,830 --> 00:31:39,740
laughter
474
00:31:39,740 --> 00:31:43,499
and this person said: "Look, I stand
behind the material and the content that
475
00:31:43,499 --> 00:31:45,789
I have created, but some people
on this site,
476
00:31:45,789 --> 00:31:48,999
I wouldn't wanna be associated with them."
477
00:31:48,999 --> 00:31:53,549
So, there is another person who talked
about "look I've created some online
478
00:31:53,549 --> 00:31:59,249
resources about various pharmaceuticals,
but I don't wanna be very associated
479
00:31:59,249 --> 00:32:04,009
with the community that posts stuff about
stuff like that.
480
00:32:05,499 --> 00:32:07,119
So some other threats.
481
00:32:07,919 --> 00:32:10,929
Some people talked about diminished
project quality.
482
00:32:10,929 --> 00:32:15,619
In particular a lot of the Wikipedians
that we talked to
483
00:32:15,619 --> 00:32:18,149
were somewhat prominent in the
Wikipedia project,
484
00:32:18,149 --> 00:32:21,979
and in some respects had kind of achieved
some degree of like
485
00:32:21,979 --> 00:32:25,909
rock star status as editors, if such
things can be.
486
00:32:26,379 --> 00:32:30,459
They found it very difficult to edit
anymore because they'd edit a page
487
00:32:30,459 --> 00:32:34,059
and that page hadn't received a lot of
attention but people would see that
488
00:32:34,059 --> 00:32:37,510
they had edited it and there would be
sort of hordes of people that would
489
00:32:37,510 --> 00:32:40,479
descend on that page, and mess with it.
490
00:32:40,489 --> 00:32:44,420
And they found that they couldn't do that
without actually sort of harming the pages
491
00:32:44,420 --> 00:32:46,239
that they were trying to edit.
492
00:32:46,239 --> 00:32:50,599
Similarly, there were some Tor users who
were talked about, y'know,
493
00:32:50,599 --> 00:32:54,690
not wanting to sort of... take credit for
their work because they were worried
494
00:32:54,690 --> 00:32:58,769
they wouldn't have the credentials to be
taken seriously in various ways,
495
00:32:58,769 --> 00:33:00,029
or things like that.
496
00:33:00,029 --> 00:33:03,940
Only two people in our project actually
talked about worrying about
497
00:33:03,940 --> 00:33:12,320
legal sort of sanctions, government
sanctions for their participation.
498
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:16,320
There were a lot of people that talked
about computer security concerns
499
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:19,769
which is not so much a privacy concern,
though it's very related, and I'm
500
00:33:19,769 --> 00:33:24,460
going to talk about that because this
group might be interested.
501
00:33:24,460 --> 00:33:27,749
On the Tor side, people liked to see
authentication properties
502
00:33:27,749 --> 00:33:32,440
of .onion services. The idea that when
you go to a .onion website,
503
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:37,440
the address is self-authenticating, you
know where you're going.
504
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:41,289
But a lot of people who use Tor talked
about the general data hygiene idea
505
00:33:41,289 --> 00:33:45,879
that there's sort of less data about them
in unknown websites,
506
00:33:45,879 --> 00:33:49,159
in unknown databases of companies
because they don't leave as many
507
00:33:49,159 --> 00:33:55,010
online footprints, and then you see all
these high profile break-ins that happen
508
00:33:55,010 --> 00:33:58,639
and these databases get stolen, if you're
using Tor, maybe you're less likely
509
00:33:58,639 --> 00:34:00,209
to be in those databases.
510
00:34:00,209 --> 00:34:02,599
That was the idea there.
511
00:34:02,599 --> 00:34:05,969
From Wikipedia a lot of people were
concerned about
512
00:34:05,969 --> 00:34:08,020
their Wikipedia credentials.
513
00:34:08,020 --> 00:34:12,879
They talked about not logging in on
public terminals and things like that,
514
00:34:12,879 --> 00:34:17,590
in particular being concerned about the
security of administrative credentials
515
00:34:17,590 --> 00:34:22,679
that have privileges to, for example, look
up the IP address of users who had edited
516
00:34:22,679 --> 00:34:25,989
and things like that, which could
be abused.
517
00:34:27,309 --> 00:34:30,410
So some concrete things that the people
were afraid of,
518
00:34:30,410 --> 00:34:31,999
not a complete list:
519
00:34:31,999 --> 00:34:35,069
having their head photoshopped onto porn,
something that happens
520
00:34:35,069 --> 00:34:37,260
sometimes to editors...
521
00:34:37,260 --> 00:34:40,729
being beaten up, actually a couple of Tor
people mentioned this;
522
00:34:40,729 --> 00:34:43,260
being swatted;
receiving pipe bombs;
523
00:34:43,260 --> 00:34:47,080
having fake information about them
published online.
524
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:52,180
Though there were people that said, look,
I don't really see a threat.
525
00:34:52,180 --> 00:34:56,469
And some participants said they don't
perceive threats when they're contributing
526
00:34:56,469 --> 00:35:00,800
but in a lot of cases they pointed out
that they enjoyed certain privileges
527
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:04,020
related to perhaps their gender, their
nationality, or the fact that
528
00:35:04,020 --> 00:35:05,970
their interests were fairly mainstream.
529
00:35:05,970 --> 00:35:08,700
So here's a quote:
"yeah I'm not that worried about it,
530
00:35:08,700 --> 00:35:11,960
mainly because there's pretty good support
for some of these viewpoints,
531
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:15,450
kind of a mainstream discourse, and it's
not so radical, I don't think anyone's
532
00:35:15,450 --> 00:35:17,300
going to be knocking down on my door.
533
00:35:17,300 --> 00:35:20,390
But I've been in contact with activists
who have been engaged with
534
00:35:20,390 --> 00:35:23,440
higher risk activities, and I do wonder
about, I do have concerns
535
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:27,470
about their welfare, and the desire they
have to have the tools to
536
00:35:27,470 --> 00:35:31,930
be able to pursue their activities without
facing consequences."
537
00:35:31,930 --> 00:35:38,500
So in contrast to the jerk theme, there
are a lot of people who run Tor
538
00:35:38,500 --> 00:35:43,330
out of a sense of altruism, to provide
cover and solidarity.
539
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,460
Someone said, I appreciate the need for
protecting vulnerable people
540
00:35:47,460 --> 00:35:51,390
around the world, so I run several relays,
some of them are exit relays,
541
00:35:51,390 --> 00:35:54,470
some of them are middle relays, and I
run them around the world".
542
00:35:54,470 --> 00:35:57,820
And someone else said:
"While you use it, you help
543
00:35:57,820 --> 00:36:01,950
diversify the network for those who may be
subject to traffic monitoring, and you can
544
00:36:01,950 --> 00:36:05,820
look up any information you like, whether
or not it's sensitive, and you'll get it,
545
00:36:05,820 --> 00:36:09,370
and if you live in a place where it may
not be the greatest in legal standing
546
00:36:09,370 --> 00:36:13,289
to look it up, you're able to find out
information."
547
00:36:14,459 --> 00:36:19,839
So mitigating strategies, how did people
deal with this when they wanted to
548
00:36:19,839 --> 00:36:26,319
participate in sites but they couldn't do
it through anonymous means, well,
549
00:36:26,319 --> 00:36:29,520
some people modified their participation,
and I'll talk about some of
550
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:35,940
the chilling effects that we saw, and also
attempts to get anonymity in various ways
551
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:40,079
So, lost editors.
552
00:36:40,389 --> 00:36:43,210
Several Tor users that we talked to,
actually mentioned that
553
00:36:43,210 --> 00:36:47,700
they had edited Wikipedia and they no
longer edited it, or they edited it
554
00:36:47,700 --> 00:36:50,230
less because of the difficulty of editing
through Tor.
555
00:36:50,230 --> 00:36:53,380
There was someone who said:
"Basically I used to edit Wikipedia
556
00:36:53,380 --> 00:36:57,470
prior to doing a lot of Tor, so yeah now
it's mostly reading... I used to
557
00:36:57,470 --> 00:37:01,730
do a lot of editing for license design
and for like some open source licenses,
558
00:37:01,730 --> 00:37:06,840
occasionally random forms and stuff that I
knew about, sometimes grammar.
559
00:37:09,780 --> 00:37:13,289
And people talked to us in particular
about the chilling effects
560
00:37:13,289 --> 00:37:17,910
of state surveillance, and in particular
the Snowden revelations.
561
00:37:17,910 --> 00:37:22,179
In March of 2015 Wikimedia foundation
announced that it was
562
00:37:22,179 --> 00:37:25,720
suing the National Security Agency.
563
00:37:25,720 --> 00:37:29,409
We asked people about that, and
the Wikipedians, some of them said
564
00:37:29,409 --> 00:37:32,929
"People aren't willing to engage with us
when they know their government is
565
00:37:32,929 --> 00:37:36,960
watching their every move." And they
said that in particular they can show
566
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,960
that editing dropped off significantly on
certain articles
567
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,680
after the Upstream program was revealed.
568
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:48,329
Here's a quote from one of our Tor users
in the study that substantiates this.
569
00:37:48,329 --> 00:37:51,330
"For the Edward Snowden page, I've pulled
myself away from adding
570
00:37:51,330 --> 00:37:54,429
sensitive contributions, like different
references, because I thought
571
00:37:54,429 --> 00:37:59,100
that made be traced back to me
in some way. But not refraining from
572
00:37:59,100 --> 00:38:00,400
useful content I guess."
573
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:04,779
Though, of course, adding references is
one of the things that contributes to
574
00:38:04,779 --> 00:38:09,819
the quality of articles and so on, and in
particular they said, articles about
575
00:38:09,819 --> 00:38:16,089
national security things, about terrorism
and so on, people didn't edit as much
576
00:38:16,089 --> 00:38:21,510
about these things anymore because they
were worried about ending up on a list.
577
00:38:21,510 --> 00:38:27,349
The other major topic that was chilled was
articles about women's health.
578
00:38:27,349 --> 00:38:31,890
So, here's a picture of a vacuum
aspiration abortion from the
579
00:38:31,890 --> 00:38:39,049
Wikipedia abortion article and a couple
of people told us about how, "look, any
580
00:38:39,049 --> 00:38:44,609
site that has to do with women or women's
issues is more contentiously edited,
581
00:38:44,609 --> 00:38:49,280
is more likely of inflaming people,
getting into edit wars, than other sites."
582
00:38:50,100 --> 00:38:53,769
There were a lot of trolls on the Internet
and there's a quote on the Internet:
583
00:38:53,769 --> 00:38:57,359
"Trolls have called their bosses and been
like 'Do you know that your employee
584
00:38:57,359 --> 00:38:59,510
was editing the clitoris article last
week?'"
585
00:38:59,510 --> 00:39:01,829
They will do stuff like that.
586
00:39:01,829 --> 00:39:07,000
So this means that, y'know, in particular
someone talked about "I was a medical
587
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:10,890
student, I had my obstetrics text book
open, I was looking at the abortion
588
00:39:10,890 --> 00:39:14,029
article, I was thinking about making some
changes, but then I just
589
00:39:14,029 --> 00:39:20,460
pulled myself back and said, y'know,
I don't need that in my life."
590
00:39:20,460 --> 00:39:26,490
This is another area where privacy
concerns push back, cause people
591
00:39:26,490 --> 00:39:29,839
to not necessarily do things...
592
00:39:29,839 --> 00:39:36,539
And then there's this idea of a threshold
of participation, that the more involved
593
00:39:36,539 --> 00:39:40,529
you are, the more active you are in a
project, the more likely you're actually
594
00:39:40,529 --> 00:39:43,569
gonna encounter real problems.
595
00:39:43,569 --> 00:39:48,069
People involved in curating content,
deleting things, promoting things,
596
00:39:48,069 --> 00:39:51,619
arbitrating disputes, etc., they're going
to make enemies.
597
00:39:51,619 --> 00:39:54,200
Some of these enemies are going to make
nasty threats,
598
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:56,550
and some of them are gonna act on them.
599
00:39:56,550 --> 00:40:00,000
Here is another quote of somebody:
"As long as I have that pseudonym ...
600
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:05,330
"As long as I have that pseudonym ...
[[ see slide ]]
601
00:40:05,330 --> 00:40:10,549
[[ see slide ]]
... that turns up when you do that."
602
00:40:10,549 --> 00:40:14,720
People mention in particular, from the
Wikipedia side, that there were two sites:
603
00:40:14,720 --> 00:40:21,150
Wikipediocracy and The Wikipedia Review,
where people have critiques of Wikipedia
604
00:40:21,150 --> 00:40:27,860
and that people on these sites had done
threats and doxing of various people
605
00:40:27,860 --> 00:40:29,910
on the arbitration committee.
606
00:40:29,910 --> 00:40:33,160
Someone talked about "they found my
parents' home address, they found
607
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:36,439
one of my old phone numbers, they wrote a
blog post about all of these
608
00:40:36,439 --> 00:40:39,330
horrible things I've done, and here's my
contact information,
609
00:40:39,330 --> 00:40:44,869
and for a good time call... and when it's
on the Internet it doesn't die.
610
00:40:45,099 --> 00:40:51,729
People that get to a certain level of
doing things, like handling abuse,
611
00:40:51,729 --> 00:40:53,629
had problems.
612
00:40:53,629 --> 00:40:57,630
So since I didn't have any privacy, I felt
limited in what I could do, I could still
613
00:40:57,630 --> 00:41:00,219
write articles but blocking people
was something
614
00:41:00,219 --> 00:41:03,209
I tried to avoid, since I didn't wanna
get angry phone calls.
615
00:41:03,209 --> 00:41:06,269
So someone else also talked about
activities that they used to do,
616
00:41:06,269 --> 00:41:08,429
but then after receiving threats and
things...
617
00:41:08,429 --> 00:41:12,440
I used to check for use of the N-word, the
ruder of the two F-words, one or two other
618
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:16,969
things that were indicative of problems in
user space, and I deleted lots and lots of
619
00:41:16,969 --> 00:41:20,260
attack pages which were fairly hot in
dealing with them when they would
620
00:41:20,260 --> 00:41:23,779
turn up in article space, and when people
create a user account in somebody
621
00:41:23,779 --> 00:41:27,380
else's name and say a bunch of things
about that person they won't agree with,
622
00:41:27,380 --> 00:41:30,520
I used to deal with that, but then, y'know
they're not willing to
623
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:33,560
deal with that anymore.
624
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:37,729
Privacy measures that people took.
625
00:41:37,959 --> 00:41:42,730
Obviously in some cases people use Tor, we
talked to Tor users where that's possible
626
00:41:42,730 --> 00:41:46,460
People also talk about avoiding posting
linking information and details
627
00:41:46,460 --> 00:41:53,710
about who they are, not editing things
about y'know, their local things,
628
00:41:53,710 --> 00:41:57,710
things only they would know, etc.
629
00:41:57,710 --> 00:42:02,750
People talked about using Proxies or VPNs,
some people talked about HideMyAss,
630
00:42:02,750 --> 00:42:08,470
editing from a public computer using
multiple accounts in some cases, and
631
00:42:08,470 --> 00:42:18,590
using privacy browser plug ins and
safeguards like NoScript and Ghostery
632
00:42:18,590 --> 00:42:23,540
We asked people, both Tor users and
not Tor users if they had used Tor,
633
00:42:23,540 --> 00:42:27,359
what they thought of Tor, and there was
this person who said: "I tried using Tor,
634
00:42:27,359 --> 00:42:31,249
I did, when I was younger, and everything
was so slow and terrible, I was just like
635
00:42:31,249 --> 00:42:32,850
'so not worh it'."
636
00:42:32,850 --> 00:42:38,470
And in fact a couple years ago, Tor was in
fact pretty slow - it's gotten better!
637
00:42:38,470 --> 00:42:41,349
But the Tor users still talked about
bit about latencies, but
638
00:42:41,349 --> 00:42:45,630
a lot of them talked about these issues of
CAPTCHAs, unusable website features,
639
00:42:45,630 --> 00:42:47,940
the fact that it used to be slow...
640
00:42:47,940 --> 00:42:51,920
and Wikipedians on Tor talked about it
being slow or too much trouble,
641
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:56,069
just the need to download the software and
connect to it every time... and people,
642
00:42:56,069 --> 00:42:58,680
some people found it unnecessary.
643
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:04,569
There was some other interesting things
that came up.
644
00:43:04,569 --> 00:43:06,250
Some people talked about how
645
00:43:06,250 --> 00:43:09,440
they used information ?revelation?
as a defense mechanism.
646
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:14,559
This idea that, okay, I'm gonna give you
some information about me, so you can't
647
00:43:14,559 --> 00:43:18,920
really dox me because that's my address
right there, or whatever.
648
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:23,740
But people talked also about the limits of
long term participation. A lot of people
649
00:43:23,740 --> 00:43:28,670
that talked to us had started editing or
participating in online projects
650
00:43:28,670 --> 00:43:32,680
as a relatively young teenager,
and a lot of people
651
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:37,450
start with things like fixing typos,
before they later become a member
652
00:43:37,450 --> 00:43:40,630
of the arbitration committee, or something
like that.
653
00:43:40,630 --> 00:43:44,460
It's hard to have this long term
perspective when you're first creating
654
00:43:44,460 --> 00:43:48,650
your login name and you identity
and so on.
655
00:43:48,650 --> 00:44:06,559
"Until it happens to you ...
[[ see slide ]]
656
00:44:06,559 --> 00:44:10,769
[[ see slide ]]
... some serious thought."
657
00:44:11,849 --> 00:44:17,400
As most good, ethnographic studies do, and
as this one was intended to do,
658
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:21,420
it sort of raises more questions
than answers.
659
00:44:21,420 --> 00:44:23,190
That was our goal.
660
00:44:23,190 --> 00:44:27,970
We're hoping... we learned that Tor users
and Wikipedians share some
661
00:44:27,970 --> 00:44:32,480
privacy concerns, but they do have some
different perspectives.
662
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:36,019
And we did learn that some value of
participation is being lost when people
663
00:44:36,019 --> 00:44:38,779
can't participate in a private way.
664
00:44:38,869 --> 00:44:44,180
We'd like to use this work to do some
follow-up studies, and also perhaps
665
00:44:44,180 --> 00:44:48,470
build a larger survey study so we can
learn more, see things that are more
666
00:44:48,470 --> 00:44:53,400
quantitative about this work.
667
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:56,869
If you find this topic interesting, a
short plug for
668
00:44:56,869 --> 00:44:59,250
the privacy enhancing technology symposium
669
00:44:59,250 --> 00:45:02,779
which will be in July in Darmstadt.
670
00:45:02,779 --> 00:45:06,369
We're not presenting this particular
work here, but there is a lot of
671
00:45:06,369 --> 00:45:14,760
work on Tor, anonymity, privacy, so on
from the research community.
672
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:19,480
And I'd like to thank my co-authors,
Andrea Forte and Nazanin Andalibi,
673
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:25,400
our interview participants, the WIkimedia
foundation, the Tor project,
674
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:29,039
the National Science Foundation that
funded Andrea's and my participation
675
00:45:29,039 --> 00:45:33,869
in this project, and all the people whose
images I've used in my slides...
676
00:45:33,869 --> 00:45:36,900
so... Thanks!
Any questions? Oh and by the way
677
00:45:36,900 --> 00:45:42,949
I'll be here for the whole conference, so
you can find me afterwards if...
678
00:45:42,949 --> 00:45:51,549
applause
679
00:45:51,549 --> 00:45:56,510
Herald Angel: Thanks a lot, Rachel
Greenstadt. And so, we hopefully have
680
00:45:56,510 --> 00:46:01,400
a few questions from you in the audience,
you can line behind the microphones
681
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:05,940
we have 4 of them here in the audience
and also in the back there are 2,
682
00:46:05,940 --> 00:46:11,650
and we also have the Signal Angel present
but he didn't get any questions yet,
683
00:46:11,650 --> 00:46:14,790
but maybe some comments or something?
684
00:46:14,790 --> 00:46:16,819
Some feedback from the crowd on the
Internet?
685
00:46:16,819 --> 00:46:18,660
Rachel Greenstadt: but there is somebody
with a... [inaudible]
686
00:46:18,660 --> 00:46:23,369
Herald Angel: then let me immediately go
to the questions in the audience.
687
00:46:23,369 --> 00:46:26,210
Herald Angel: We have microphone 2, please
688
00:46:26,210 --> 00:46:32,900
HA: And, one second, can you please be
quiet if you go outside? Because that's
689
00:46:32,900 --> 00:46:34,319
really rude.
690
00:46:34,319 --> 00:46:39,139
Question: did you find out if Wikipedia
for example treats classical VPN or
691
00:46:39,139 --> 00:46:40,769
proxies differently from Tor?
692
00:46:40,769 --> 00:46:44,029
Rachel Greendstadt: If what?
Question: if they treat them differently
693
00:46:44,029 --> 00:46:48,730
from Tor, so do they have the same policy
in place for blocking, let's say,
694
00:46:48,730 --> 00:46:54,370
private VPN which can also be used to
change your IP with the click of a button,
695
00:46:54,370 --> 00:46:59,239
if you want to bully someone but it might
offer less privacy than Tor, but if you
696
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:01,869
really only want to bully someone,
that might be enough.
697
00:47:01,869 --> 00:47:06,240
Rachel Greenstadt: I think it depends,
is the answer.
698
00:47:06,240 --> 00:47:12,349
The extensions that they have, they do
block a lot of things from IPs so I think
699
00:47:12,349 --> 00:47:15,700
it depends on if there's been abuse
through that thing before,
700
00:47:15,700 --> 00:47:20,480
they try and block open proxies, I think
some people said certain VPNs you can
701
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:23,400
still edit through, and some you couldn't,
it really depended.
702
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:28,010
Herald Angel: Thanks, microphone 1 please.
703
00:47:28,010 --> 00:47:31,520
Question: Wikipedia is by no means an
isolated case, right?
704
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:34,569
RA: No, no
Question: And there's more and more
705
00:47:34,569 --> 00:47:39,510
capability of blocking Tor exit nodes and
whatnot, so where's the project going?
706
00:47:39,510 --> 00:47:43,529
I mean, the Great Firewall for example
could very well block all its users from
707
00:47:43,529 --> 00:47:46,559
accessing Tor, right?
RA: It actually does.
708
00:47:46,559 --> 00:47:52,279
So it blocks people from accessing Tor and
it blocks people from accessing Wikipedia,
709
00:47:52,279 --> 00:47:56,140
in terms of the Tor project there are
mechanisms through using
710
00:47:56,140 --> 00:48:01,960
pluggable transports and bridge addresses,
they can actually help people still
711
00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:05,920
access Tor, and then they'll be able to
read Wikipedia, but then again
712
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:08,049
they won't be able to edit for these
reasons.
713
00:48:08,049 --> 00:48:13,340
HA: So, again, we have 15 minutes of break
after this, so you can get out after this
714
00:48:13,340 --> 00:48:16,359
and change the room, and please be
quiet if you really have to
715
00:48:16,359 --> 00:48:20,439
leave the room already or if you come in
the room already. Thank you.
716
00:48:20,439 --> 00:48:22,430
Now to the Signal Angel, please.
717
00:48:22,430 --> 00:48:27,579
Signal Angel: There is one question from
the Internet, from ?Whyness?, he or she
718
00:48:27,579 --> 00:48:31,829
is asking if there's actual a recorded
instance of someone attempting to
719
00:48:31,829 --> 00:48:36,059
put a pipe bomb in the post
because of Wikipedia edits.
720
00:48:36,059 --> 00:48:42,519
RA: I certainly don't have such
information. This was just
721
00:48:42,519 --> 00:48:46,799
people telling us things that they were
concerned about, or things that
722
00:48:46,799 --> 00:48:51,000
there had been threats that they'd
experienced.
723
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:54,369
Nobody that I know of specifically
mentioned that they experienced
724
00:48:54,369 --> 00:48:55,369
a pipe bomb.
725
00:48:55,369 --> 00:49:01,470
Signal Angel: And another question from
?a_monk?: if blocked Tor traffic
726
00:49:01,470 --> 00:49:05,839
is a problem, why does the Tor project
publish the exit IP list, making it
727
00:49:05,839 --> 00:49:08,329
easy to block?
728
00:49:08,329 --> 00:49:16,000
RA: That would be a question for the Tor
people, my understanding of it is that
729
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:20,339
the Tor project does try and be a good
Internet citizen and they don't want to
730
00:49:20,339 --> 00:49:26,650
encourage the kind of, sort of, arms race
that would happen with sort of...
731
00:49:26,650 --> 00:49:30,349
people trying to like find all the exits,
and block them versus making it
732
00:49:30,349 --> 00:49:34,479
just look, here it is, this is what's
going on, and... it's also very helpful
733
00:49:34,479 --> 00:49:37,970
when you're running an exit node, to be
able to say, look, this thing is
734
00:49:37,970 --> 00:49:42,819
an exit node and that's what was going on
when this thing happened
735
00:49:42,819 --> 00:49:49,369
through my computer. So I think, y'know,
there's the ability of the exit relay
736
00:49:49,369 --> 00:49:54,069
operators to be able to say what they're
doing is also an important concern.
737
00:49:54,069 --> 00:49:59,119
Herald Angel: so there's standing someone
at microphone 5.
738
00:49:59,119 --> 00:50:03,680
Question: You mentioned zero-knowledge
proofs in the beginning, is there any more
739
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:05,269
research on this?
740
00:50:05,269 --> 00:50:13,269
RA: Uhm, yeah, so... If you look at the
research on Nymble
741
00:50:13,269 --> 00:50:15,639
by Apu Kapadia, there's also some people
742
00:50:15,639 --> 00:50:19,089
in Nick Hopper's group at the university
of Minnesota, there's also
743
00:50:19,089 --> 00:50:24,169
Ryan Henry in Indiana University
that's done a lot of work on this
744
00:50:24,169 --> 00:50:27,680
in Ian Goldberg's group at Waterloo,
those are the people that I would
745
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:32,359
look up in terms of anonymous blacklisting
schemes, and I'm sure I'm forgetting
746
00:50:32,359 --> 00:50:35,700
some of them right now, so hopefully
they'll forgive me, but those are
747
00:50:35,700 --> 00:50:37,430
good places to start.
748
00:50:37,430 --> 00:50:41,799
Herald Angel: we have the next question at
microphone 1.
749
00:50:41,799 --> 00:50:49,039
Question: Do you know if Wikipedia ever
thought about hashing IP addresses,
750
00:50:49,039 --> 00:50:55,960
so that the contributions are still unique
but the users are anonymized?
751
00:50:57,610 --> 00:51:02,029
RA: Nobody at WIkipedia talked to us about
that, so I do not know if they thought
752
00:51:02,029 --> 00:51:04,089
about that or not.
753
00:51:04,089 --> 00:51:10,559
Herald Angel: and the last comment or
question at the Signal Angel microphone.
754
00:51:10,559 --> 00:51:14,859
Signal Angel: Thanks, not really a
question, more a comment...
755
00:51:14,859 --> 00:51:22,359
"I just wanted to relate, indeed Wikipedia
blocking Tor is pretty concerned
756
00:51:22,359 --> 00:51:28,750
also for Tor users because for instance,
the French Wikipedia articles about Tor
757
00:51:28,750 --> 00:51:34,650
have very, very poor quality and lot of
people end up asking us questions about
758
00:51:34,650 --> 00:51:39,930
Tor and are missing from because of that,
and I cannot fix it because I am not
759
00:51:39,930 --> 00:51:44,500
willing to edit Wikipedia without Tor. And
that is also a pretty big issue I think."
760
00:51:44,500 --> 00:51:49,109
RA: Yeah, so it would be interesting from
my perspective, using this to then look at
761
00:51:49,109 --> 00:51:53,230
the articles, the types of articles about
Tor, about anonymous participation,
762
00:51:53,230 --> 00:51:58,059
where we would suggest... we'd like to do
a bigger study, learn what articles about
763
00:51:58,059 --> 00:52:03,130
that anonymous users would edit if they
were going to edit Wikipedia, and then
764
00:52:03,130 --> 00:52:07,309
we could do an analysis like they did
about the movie sites to figure out
765
00:52:07,309 --> 00:52:11,739
if these articles are in some way shorter
or of lower quality than other articles
766
00:52:11,739 --> 00:52:13,970
because they're missing that perspective.
767
00:52:13,970 --> 00:52:20,569
Herald Angel: Thank you Rachel, thank you
for the questions, and warm applause again
768
00:52:20,569 --> 00:52:21,789
for Rachel GreenStadt.
769
00:52:21,959 --> 00:52:23,700
applause
770
00:52:23,780 --> 00:52:24,709
RA: Thanks
771
00:52:25,989 --> 00:52:29,831
tune playing
772
00:52:29,831 --> 00:52:37,000
subtitles created by c3subtitles.de
Join, and help us!