WEBVTT

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It will also be re
broadcasted at a later date

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on Comcast eight, RCN 82 SAS as per 196.

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For a public testimony written comments

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may be sent to the committee email

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@ccc.go@boston.gov

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and it will be made part
of the official record.

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This is an ordinance

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that would ban the use
of facial surveillance

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by the city of Boston or any
official in the city of Boston.

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The proposal would also prohibit

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entering into agreements, contracts

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to obtain face-to-face
surveillance with third parties.

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I'm gonna turn it now
over to the lead sponsors,

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councilor Wu and councilor Arroyo.

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And then I will turn it to my colleagues

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in order of arrival, for opening remarks.

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And just to acknowledge my colleagues

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and I believe the order that I had so far,

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again it will be councilor Arroyo,

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councilor Wu, councilor
Braden, councilor Bok,

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councilor Mejia, councilor Campbell,

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and then I had councilor
O'Malley, councilor Essaibi George

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and then I'm sorry, I started talking.

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So other councilors have joined us.

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MICHAEL: Good morning madam chair.

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Councilor Flaherty was before me

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councilor Edwards, thanks.

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I apologize councilor Flaherty,

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then councilor Campbell,
then counselor melody

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and councilor Essaibi George.

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I will not turn it over
to the lead sponsors.

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Does that start with me?

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CHAIR: Sure.

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Thank you, madam chair.

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I think we have excellent panelists

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to kind of go into the intricacies

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of the facial recognition ban.

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But to just kind of summarize it,

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this facial recognition band
creates a community process

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that makes our systems more inclusive

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of community consents while
adding democratic oversight,

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where there currently is none.

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We will be joining our neighbors

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and Cambridge and Somerville.

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And specifically when it comes
to facial recognition tech,

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it doesn't work, it's not good.

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It it's been proven through the data

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to be less accurate for
people with darker skin.

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A study by one of our
panelists Joy Buolamwini,

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researcher at MIT,

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found that black women

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were 35% more likely than white men

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to be misclassified by face
surveillance technology.

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The reality is that face surveillance

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isn't very effective in its current form.

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According to records obtained by the ACLU,

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one manufacturer promoting
this technology Massachusetts

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admitted that it might only
work about 30% of the time.

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Currently, my understanding

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is that the Boston Police
Department does not use this.

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This isn't a ban on surveillance.

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This is simply a ban on facial
recognition surveillance,

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which I think the data
has shown doesn't work.

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BPD doesn't use it because,

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and I will allow commissioner
Gross to speak on it.

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But my understanding from what I've heard

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and past comments from commissioner Gross

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is that they don't wanna use technology

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that doesn't work well.

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And so this ban necessarily
even a permanent ban,

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it just creates a process
where we are banning something

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that doesn't have to be process

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that doesn't have community trust

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and doesn't have community consent

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in which would require
some democratic oversight

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if they ever do want to implement it,

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if the technology in the
future ever does improve.

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And so with that, I see
the rest of my time.

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Thank you, madam chair.

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And thank you also to my
co-sponsor councilor Wu.

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Thank you very much madam chair.

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Thank you also to councilor Arroyo

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and all of the coalition partners

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that have been working
on this for many months

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and providing all sorts of
incredibly important feedback.

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We scheduled this hearing
many weeks ago at this point,

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I think over a month ago.

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And it just so happened that
the timing of it now has lined

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up with a moment of great national trauma.

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And in this moment,

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the responsibility is on
each one of us to step up,

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to truly address systemic
racism and systemic oppression,

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but the responsibilities,

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especially on elected
officials, policy makers,

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those of us who have the power

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and the ability to make change now.

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So I am proud that
Boston has the potential

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to join our sister cities
across Massachusetts

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in taking this immediate
step to ban a technology

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that has been proven to
be racially discriminatory

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and that threatens basic rights.

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We are thankful that Boston police

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agree with that assessment

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and do not use facial recognition,

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facial surveillance today in Boston,

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and are looking to
codify that understanding

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so that with the various
mechanisms for technology

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and upgrades and changing circumstances

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of different administrations
and personalities,

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that we just have it on the books

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that protections come first,

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because we truly believe
that public health

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and public safety should
be grounded in trust.

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So the chair gave a wonderful description

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of this ordinance.

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I am looking forward to the discussion,

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but most of all I'm grateful to colleagues

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and everyone has con who has contributed

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to this conversation,

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as well as the larger conversation about

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community centered
oversight of surveillance,

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which will be in a
separate but related docket

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that will be moving
forward on the council.

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Thank you very much.

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Councilor Breadon, opening remarks.

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Thank you.

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Thank you, madam chair,

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thank you to the makers of this ordinance.

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I really look forward to the
conversation this afternoon.

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I'm very proud to participate
in this discussion.

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I think it's the proper
and right thing to do

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to really consider deeply
all the implications

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of new technology that hasn't
been proven to be effective

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before introducing it in
any city in Massachusetts.

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So I really look forward to learning more

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and hearing from the panelists
this afternoon, thank you.

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CHAIR: Councilor Bok.

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Ah, yes.

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Thank you, madam chair.

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And I hope everyone will forgive me

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for being outside for a minute.

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I wanted to just say,

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I'm excited about this conversation today.

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I think it's a piece of action
we should absolutely take.

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And I just wanna say that,

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I think it's really important
that this technology

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has major shortcomings

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and that also it has a
racial bias builds into it.

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Those are really good
reasons not to use it,

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but honestly, even if those did not hold,

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I think that in this country,

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we run the risk sometimes of
just starting to do things

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that tech new technology can do,

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without asking ourselves like
as a democratic populous,

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as a community, is this
something that we should do?

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And I think in the process,

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we as Americans have given up

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a lot of our rights and privacy,

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frankly as often as not
to private corporations

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as to government.

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But I think that it's really important

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to just remember that there's
a true public interest

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in a society that is built more on trust

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than on surveillance.

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And so I think it's really important

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for us to draw this line in the sand

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so that if the technology improves

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and some of those arguments

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that are based on a kind
of its functionality

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start to slip away, that
we're still gonna have

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a real conversation together

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about how we wanna live in

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and what kind of a society we want to be.

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So to me, putting a
moratorium ban like this

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into place, makes a ton of sense.

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And I'm excited for the conversation

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and grateful to all the advocates.

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Thank you so much madam chair

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Thank you.

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Councilor Mejia.

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Yes, thank you.

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Sorry about my audio.

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Thank you chair, women Edwards,

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and thank you to the makers, councilor Wu,

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and I applaud you for your
leadership on this issue.

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For me this issue is
personal and professional

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as a Dominican woman who
claims a black boots.

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Facial recognition technology

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misidentifies people like me by 35%.

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We're in a time where our technology

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is outpacing our morals.

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We've got a 2020 technology
with a 1620 state of mind,

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but that's thinking.

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As a city, we need to
practice extreme caution

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over facial recognition technology.

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And we should be concerned

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not only with this technology goes wrong,

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but also when it goes right.

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We have a lot of work to do

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when it comes to building
trust in our government.

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Working against this facial
recognition technology

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is a good step and I'm happy to hear

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there's pushback against
this kind of surveillance

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on all sides of the issue.

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Like the makers of the
ordinance mentioned,

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now, right now, there's not a desire

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to put facial recognition
technology in place.

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And this ordinance is an
opportunity to put that into law.

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I look forward to the discussion

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and I hope to continue
to push on this issue

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alongside councilor Wu and Arroyo,

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thank you so much.

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Thank you very much.

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Councilor Flaherty.

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MICHAEL: Thank you madam chair

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and the sponsors for this hearing.

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As I've stated in the past
the technology updates

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and advances have provided
us with many advantages,

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but at the same time,

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they've also proven to be deeply flawed,

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unreliable and disproportionally impacting

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communities of color.

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This technology,

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just for everyone's full
disclosure if you listening,

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this technology is currently
not being used by the BPD

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for that reason and CAC
commissioner is here

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and good afternoon to the commissioner.

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I appreciate the work
that you've been doing

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through all of this.

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Whether it's just the
day-to-day public safety,

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rigors of your job,

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or it's been through
the COVID-19 response,

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or it's been, most recently and tragically

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in response to George
Floyd's horrific death

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and everything that has come from that.

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I wanna make sure

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that I'm gonna continue
to remain supportive

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of setting transparent limits
in creating a public process

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by which we assess the
use of these technologies.

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I know that we've been able
to solve a lot of crimes

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through video surveillance

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and also through video, quite frankly,

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and also they've led
to justice for families

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and someone that has lost
a cousin due to murder,

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but for, it was surveillance

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and it was DNA that led to
my family getting justice.

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So looking forward to
learning more about this

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and the commissioner's perspective on it,

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but also recognizing that collectively

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we need to make sure that
we're putting forth decisions

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that make the most sense for Boston.

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I'll get real parochial here.

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Quite frankly, I'm not really
concerned about Cambridge

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and Somerville, I wanna make sure

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that whatever we're doing
in Boston is impacting

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all of our neighborhoods.

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The neighborhoods that I represent

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as a city wide city councilor.

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And making sure that we
have community input,

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most importantly.

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We work for the people
of Boston, as council

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and obviously as the
commissioner of police officers,

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we work for the residents and
the taxpayers of our city.

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So they need a seat at the table

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and we wanna to hear from them.

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If the technology enhances

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and it help us is public
safety tool, great.

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But as the time stands,

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it's still unreliable and
there are flaws to it.

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So as a result that's
where I'm gonna be on this.

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Thank you madam chair.

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Thank you very much.

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Councilor Campbell.

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Thank you, madam chair and thank you,

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I know you're gonna run a tight ship

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given what's all that's happening today,

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including the funeral, of
course for George Floyd.

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So thank you very much.

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Thank you also to, of course,

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to the commissioner for being here,

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given all that's going on.

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I know you've been on
the record in the past

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with respect to this issue

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and that not only does the
department not have it,

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but you understand the flaws of it.

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So thank you for being here.

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Thank you to my council colleagues,

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but als most importantly the makers

00:12:29.197 --> 00:12:30.537
for putting this forward.

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I have been supportive of
this since the very beginning,

00:12:33.700 --> 00:12:34.830
when I hosted,

00:12:34.830 --> 00:12:36.943
along with councilor Wu
and counselor McCarthy,

00:12:36.943 --> 00:12:38.400
a hearing on this very issue

00:12:38.400 --> 00:12:42.250
along with some other
surveillance technologies

00:12:42.250 --> 00:12:44.470
and things that were possibly
coming down the pipe.

00:12:44.470 --> 00:12:46.438
So this was an opportunity for us

00:12:46.438 --> 00:12:49.910
to have this conversation on
what we could do proactively

00:12:49.910 --> 00:12:53.030
to make sure that surveillance tools

00:12:53.030 --> 00:12:56.410
were not put into place without
a robust community process.

00:12:56.410 --> 00:12:58.140
And of course, council input.

00:12:58.140 --> 00:13:01.100
So back then I supported
it and I support it now.

00:13:01.100 --> 00:13:03.680
Again thank you commissioner,
thank you to your team,

00:13:03.680 --> 00:13:06.600
thank you to the makers
and thank you madam chair.

00:13:06.600 --> 00:13:08.150
And Aiden also says, thank you.

00:13:11.050 --> 00:13:13.240
Thank you Aiden and thank
you councilor Campbell.

00:13:13.240 --> 00:13:15.070
councilor O'Malley.

00:13:15.070 --> 00:13:16.560
Thank you madam chair.

00:13:16.560 --> 00:13:20.200
Just very briefly wanna thank the makers,

00:13:20.200 --> 00:13:23.380
councilor Wu and Arroyo
for their leadership here.

00:13:23.380 --> 00:13:26.556
Obviously I support the
facial recognition ban.

00:13:26.556 --> 00:13:31.240
Also grateful, wanna echo my
thanks to the commissioner

00:13:31.240 --> 00:13:33.810
for his comments and his opposition,

00:13:33.810 --> 00:13:35.688
the fact that this isn't used.

00:13:35.688 --> 00:13:37.460
So it's important that we
codified that in such a way,

00:13:37.460 --> 00:13:39.455
which again is the purpose of this hearing

00:13:39.455 --> 00:13:41.570
and this ordinance and
stand ready, willing

00:13:41.570 --> 00:13:43.495
and able to get to work.

00:13:43.495 --> 00:13:44.493
Thank you and look forward

00:13:44.493 --> 00:13:46.160
to hearing from a number of residents,

00:13:46.160 --> 00:13:48.830
our panelists, as well as a
public testimony after, thanks.

00:13:48.830 --> 00:13:52.050
Thank you very much,
councilor Essaibi George.

00:13:52.050 --> 00:13:52.883
Thank you madam chair,

00:13:52.883 --> 00:13:54.730
and thank you to the commissioner

00:13:54.730 --> 00:13:55.980
for being with us this afternoon.

00:13:55.980 --> 00:13:57.530
I look forward to hearing from him

00:13:57.530 --> 00:14:00.580
and from the panelists discussing
this ordinance further.

00:14:00.580 --> 00:14:02.220
I think that it is necessary

00:14:02.220 --> 00:14:05.090
to ban this technology at this point.

00:14:05.090 --> 00:14:09.060
I think that our colleagues
have brought to the forefront,

00:14:09.060 --> 00:14:11.530
over the last few years
as have the advocates,

00:14:11.530 --> 00:14:14.732
around the concerns regarding
this kind of technology.

00:14:14.732 --> 00:14:19.732
I appreciate the real concerns
around accuracy and biases

00:14:21.090 --> 00:14:24.380
against people of color
women, children, the elderly,

00:14:24.380 --> 00:14:29.134
and certainly reflective
of our city's residents.

00:14:29.134 --> 00:14:32.437
So we need to make sure
that we're proactive

00:14:32.437 --> 00:14:34.920
and protecting our residents

00:14:34.920 --> 00:14:37.250
and having a deeper understanding

00:14:37.250 --> 00:14:39.440
and appreciation of this technology

00:14:39.440 --> 00:14:41.810
and understanding what
this ordinance would mean

00:14:41.810 --> 00:14:45.436
around that ban and
following through with it.

00:14:45.436 --> 00:14:46.420
Thank you ma'am chair.

00:14:46.420 --> 00:14:47.470
Thank you very much.

00:14:47.470 --> 00:14:50.040
I understand councilor
Flynn is trying to get in

00:14:50.040 --> 00:14:51.797
and there might be a limits.

00:14:51.797 --> 00:14:53.260
I'm just saying that for our tech folks.

00:14:53.260 --> 00:14:55.150
In the meantime, I'm
going to read a letter

00:14:55.150 --> 00:14:58.275
from city council president Kim Janey,

00:14:58.275 --> 00:15:01.290
"Dear chairwoman Edwards, due
to technical difficulties,

00:15:01.290 --> 00:15:04.980
I'm unable to log in for
today's hearing on docket 0683,

00:15:04.980 --> 00:15:06.010
regarding an ordinance

00:15:06.010 --> 00:15:08.870
banning facial recognition
technology in Boston.

00:15:08.870 --> 00:15:11.430
I will continue to work on
the technical challenges

00:15:11.430 --> 00:15:13.720
on my end and we'll join
the hearing at a later time

00:15:13.720 --> 00:15:16.090
if I am able, if I'm unable to join,

00:15:16.090 --> 00:15:18.760
I'll review the recording at a later time.

00:15:18.760 --> 00:15:21.490
I want to thank the makers
councilors Wu and Arroyo

00:15:21.490 --> 00:15:23.910
for their advocacy and
continued leadership

00:15:23.910 --> 00:15:25.360
on this critical issue.

00:15:25.360 --> 00:15:26.757
I especially want to
thank all the advocates

00:15:26.757 --> 00:15:28.320
who are participating

00:15:28.320 --> 00:15:31.310
for their tireless advocacy on this issue.

00:15:31.310 --> 00:15:32.960
I look forward to working with advocates

00:15:32.960 --> 00:15:34.370
to incorporate their ideas

00:15:34.370 --> 00:15:36.378
and how we can push this
issue moving forward.

00:15:36.378 --> 00:15:39.240
It is clear we need policies in place

00:15:39.240 --> 00:15:41.460
to protect communities that
are vulnerable to technologies

00:15:41.460 --> 00:15:42.890
that are biased against them.

00:15:42.890 --> 00:15:44.500
I look forward to working
with my colleagues

00:15:44.500 --> 00:15:45.527
on this critical issue,

00:15:45.527 --> 00:15:47.420
and we'll continue to fight for an agenda

00:15:47.420 --> 00:15:50.300
that promotes and protects black lives.

00:15:50.300 --> 00:15:52.130
Please read this letter
into the record, thank you."

00:15:52.130 --> 00:15:53.373
Sincerely Kim Janey.

00:15:54.220 --> 00:15:56.296
I'm not sure if we've been
joined by councilor Flynn.

00:15:56.296 --> 00:15:59.623
I do know he was trying to get in.

00:16:03.598 --> 00:16:05.010
In the meantime I did want to just do

00:16:05.010 --> 00:16:08.840
some quick housekeeping as part
of my introductory remarks.

00:16:08.840 --> 00:16:11.430
Just to let people know again,

00:16:11.430 --> 00:16:12.920
today's hearing is specifically

00:16:12.920 --> 00:16:14.390
about this proposed ordinance

00:16:14.390 --> 00:16:16.850
that would ban facial
recognition technology.

00:16:16.850 --> 00:16:21.270
We had a robust conversation
about defunding the police,

00:16:21.270 --> 00:16:23.476
discussing all aspects of the budget,

00:16:23.476 --> 00:16:25.740
all of those different things just happen

00:16:25.740 --> 00:16:28.330
and it was chaired by councilor Bok.

00:16:28.330 --> 00:16:32.140
And I wanna make sure that
our conversations are related,

00:16:32.140 --> 00:16:35.610
that we do not take this precious
moment on this legislation

00:16:35.610 --> 00:16:40.059
and have it covered up by
the other conversation.

00:16:40.059 --> 00:16:43.210
I just want you to know that

00:16:43.210 --> 00:16:45.790
and again, I will move the conversation

00:16:45.790 --> 00:16:47.610
towards this ordinance.

00:16:47.610 --> 00:16:49.160
There should be a copy of it.

00:16:49.160 --> 00:16:50.910
People should have the ability

00:16:50.910 --> 00:16:53.161
to discuss about this
language in this ordinance.

00:16:53.161 --> 00:16:55.303
Questions I have,

00:16:55.303 --> 00:16:58.900
I do want to talk about,
whether time is of the essence.

00:16:58.900 --> 00:17:00.520
There seem to been some issue,

00:17:00.520 --> 00:17:03.260
I'm concerned about whether
we were entering a contract

00:17:03.260 --> 00:17:04.310
that allowed for this.

00:17:04.310 --> 00:17:05.600
So when the commissioner speaks,

00:17:05.600 --> 00:17:08.490
I'd like for him to speak on that.

00:17:08.490 --> 00:17:12.080
I'm not sure if there's a
contract pending what's going on.

00:17:12.080 --> 00:17:14.541
I also wanna make sure
that folks understand

00:17:14.541 --> 00:17:16.700
due to the fact that I think

00:17:16.700 --> 00:17:19.795
we have possibly a hundred
people signed up to speak.

00:17:19.795 --> 00:17:21.870
We have a lot of folks

00:17:21.870 --> 00:17:23.410
who are gonna be speaking on the panel.

00:17:23.410 --> 00:17:26.220
I'm going to limit my
colleagues to three minutes

00:17:26.220 --> 00:17:27.380
in their first round.

00:17:27.380 --> 00:17:30.560
And I'm gonna get the
public to no more than two.

00:17:30.560 --> 00:17:32.920
And I'm gonna try my best
to get through that list.

00:17:32.920 --> 00:17:35.850
So I see we've been
joined by councilor Flynn,

00:17:35.850 --> 00:17:38.300
councilor Flynn, do you
have any opening remarks?

00:17:45.730 --> 00:17:47.070
Thank you.

00:17:47.070 --> 00:17:49.700
Thank you, counsel Edwards,

00:17:49.700 --> 00:17:54.700
and to the sponsors and looking
forward to this hearing,

00:17:56.400 --> 00:17:59.860
learning, learning more about the proposal

00:18:01.242 --> 00:18:04.160
and also interested in hearing

00:18:04.160 --> 00:18:09.160
from the commissioner of
police, commissioner Gross

00:18:09.930 --> 00:18:14.158
and with the public as well.

00:18:14.158 --> 00:18:19.158
Again, this is an issue that's
that we all can learn from.

00:18:21.490 --> 00:18:25.280
We can listen to each
other, we can be respectful

00:18:25.280 --> 00:18:28.130
and hear each other's point of view.

00:18:28.130 --> 00:18:29.750
And that's what this city is all about,

00:18:29.750 --> 00:18:34.150
is coming together and
treating each other fairly.

00:18:34.150 --> 00:18:37.637
And with respect, especially
during difficult days

00:18:37.637 --> 00:18:40.070
and on and on difficult issues.

00:18:40.070 --> 00:18:43.500
I also know that our police commissioner

00:18:43.500 --> 00:18:47.840
is someone that also listens to people

00:18:47.840 --> 00:18:51.360
and he's in the neighborhoods and he talks

00:18:51.360 --> 00:18:55.000
and listens to a lot of the
concerns of the residents.

00:18:55.000 --> 00:18:58.120
That's what I like most about
the police commissioner,

00:18:58.120 --> 00:19:01.130
is his ability to listen
and treat people freely.

00:19:01.130 --> 00:19:03.830
Again, I'm here to listen
and learn about the proposal.

00:19:03.830 --> 00:19:06.070
Thank you councilor Edwards
for your strong leadership.

00:19:06.070 --> 00:19:07.850
Thank you councilor Flynn.

00:19:07.850 --> 00:19:09.670
I just wanna let people know,

00:19:09.670 --> 00:19:12.823
we actually have a a hundred
percent limit on the Zoom.

00:19:12.823 --> 00:19:14.500
We have 118 people trying to get in.

00:19:14.500 --> 00:19:15.840
So once you've testified,

00:19:15.840 --> 00:19:17.703
could you at least sign out,

00:19:18.692 --> 00:19:19.580
that allows for other people to get in.

00:19:19.580 --> 00:19:21.810
Commissioner Gross you've been waiting.

00:19:21.810 --> 00:19:23.950
So I'm gonna turn the
microphone over to you.

00:19:23.950 --> 00:19:27.350
I'm gonna ask you get
right to the ordinance

00:19:27.350 --> 00:19:29.690
and get to the trends
and thoughts on that.

00:19:29.690 --> 00:19:32.060
I'm happy to discuss any procedure.

00:19:32.060 --> 00:19:33.890
Then we're gonna try
and get to the panelists

00:19:33.890 --> 00:19:36.700
and move back to the city
council while you're still here.

00:19:36.700 --> 00:19:38.877
Okay.
Yes, thank you.

00:19:42.470 --> 00:19:44.310
Good afternoon everyone.

00:19:44.310 --> 00:19:49.310
And God bless Mr. George
Floyd, may he rest in peace.

00:19:50.120 --> 00:19:52.820
And for the record, I'm proud of Boston,

00:19:52.820 --> 00:19:56.590
as they paid great homage
and peaceful protest

00:19:56.590 --> 00:20:00.370
and anything we can do to
move our department forward,

00:20:00.370 --> 00:20:02.090
working with our community.

00:20:02.090 --> 00:20:03.330
You have it on record right here,

00:20:03.330 --> 00:20:05.230
and now I'm willing to
work with you councilors,

00:20:05.230 --> 00:20:07.720
the mayor, in our great city.

00:20:07.720 --> 00:20:08.583
So, thank you.

00:20:09.570 --> 00:20:13.360
So I will start and thank you the chair

00:20:13.360 --> 00:20:15.862
and the committee members and the makers,

00:20:15.862 --> 00:20:18.223
councilor Wu and Arroyo.

00:20:19.930 --> 00:20:22.150
I really thank you for
inviting me to participate

00:20:22.150 --> 00:20:24.370
in today's hearing regarding the ordinance

00:20:24.370 --> 00:20:28.638
banning facial recognition
technology in Boston.

00:20:28.638 --> 00:20:31.670
As you can imagine the
Boston Police Department

00:20:31.670 --> 00:20:33.990
has been extremely busy
meeting the current demands

00:20:33.990 --> 00:20:37.640
of public safety from
the COVID-19 pandemic

00:20:37.640 --> 00:20:39.580
and the public rallies.

00:20:39.580 --> 00:20:42.110
However, the department and I understand

00:20:42.110 --> 00:20:45.800
the importance of the given topic,

00:20:45.800 --> 00:20:46.840
I would like to request

00:20:46.840 --> 00:20:49.630
that hearing remain on the given topic

00:20:49.630 --> 00:20:52.670
and that we work together
to find other times

00:20:52.670 --> 00:20:56.170
to discuss the important issues
regarding police relations,

00:20:56.170 --> 00:20:58.825
national issues on police reform

00:20:58.825 --> 00:21:01.331
and the ways that we can improve

00:21:01.331 --> 00:21:04.923
our relationships here in Boston.

00:21:06.430 --> 00:21:08.310
As has been practiced in the past,

00:21:08.310 --> 00:21:10.020
we welcome a future opportunity

00:21:10.020 --> 00:21:12.053
to discuss the ordinance language

00:21:12.053 --> 00:21:15.690
and city council concerns
in a working session

00:21:15.690 --> 00:21:18.060
regarding technology policy

00:21:18.060 --> 00:21:20.592
and potential privacy concerns.

00:21:20.592 --> 00:21:24.946
My testimony today is meant
to serve as a background

00:21:24.946 --> 00:21:27.570
to BPD current practices

00:21:27.570 --> 00:21:31.143
and identify potential
technological needs.

00:21:32.051 --> 00:21:34.330
The department for the record,

00:21:34.330 --> 00:21:36.380
does not currently have the technology

00:21:36.380 --> 00:21:37.883
for facial recognition.

00:21:39.240 --> 00:21:41.840
As technology advances however,

00:21:41.840 --> 00:21:45.330
many vendors have and will
continue to incorporate

00:21:45.330 --> 00:21:49.243
automated recognition abilities.

00:21:50.100 --> 00:21:52.360
We have prohibited these features

00:21:52.360 --> 00:21:55.020
as we have moved along in our advancements

00:21:55.020 --> 00:21:58.290
with the intention to have rich
dialogue with the community

00:21:58.290 --> 00:22:03.003
prior to any acquisition
of such a technology.

00:22:04.410 --> 00:22:07.540
Video has proven to be one
of the most effective tools

00:22:07.540 --> 00:22:10.870
for collecting evidence
of criminal offenses,

00:22:10.870 --> 00:22:13.090
for solving crimes and locating missing

00:22:13.090 --> 00:22:15.640
and exploited individuals.

00:22:15.640 --> 00:22:18.720
Any prohibitions on
these investigative tools

00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:21.710
without a full understanding
of potential uses

00:22:21.710 --> 00:22:23.440
under strict protocols,

00:22:23.440 --> 00:22:25.610
could be harmful and impede our ability

00:22:25.610 --> 00:22:26.893
to protect the public.

00:22:28.370 --> 00:22:32.120
The proposed ordinance defines
facial surveillance to mean,

00:22:32.120 --> 00:22:35.650
an automatic automated
or semi-automated process

00:22:35.650 --> 00:22:40.500
that assist in identifying
or verifying an individual

00:22:40.500 --> 00:22:43.540
or in capturing information
about an individual

00:22:43.540 --> 00:22:45.508
based on the physical characteristics

00:22:45.508 --> 00:22:48.003
of an individual's face.

00:22:51.441 --> 00:22:53.097
And to be clear,

00:22:53.097 --> 00:22:54.837
that department has no desire

00:22:54.837 --> 00:22:56.640
to employ a facial surveillance system

00:22:58.110 --> 00:23:01.330
to generally surveil
the citizens of Boston.

00:23:01.330 --> 00:23:03.640
The department however notes a distinction

00:23:03.640 --> 00:23:06.260
between facial surveillance systems

00:23:06.260 --> 00:23:08.493
and facial recognition technology.

00:23:09.350 --> 00:23:10.230
The department believes

00:23:10.230 --> 00:23:13.250
that the term facial
recognition technology

00:23:13.250 --> 00:23:16.550
better describes the investigative nature

00:23:16.550 --> 00:23:19.623
of the technology we believe
would be useful to the city,

00:23:20.635 --> 00:23:23.393
with the right safeguards
and community input.

00:23:24.470 --> 00:23:25.960
The department would,

00:23:25.960 --> 00:23:28.960
as technology advances
and becomes more reliable,

00:23:28.960 --> 00:23:31.850
like the opportunity to
discuss the utilization

00:23:31.850 --> 00:23:34.724
of facial recognition technology

00:23:34.724 --> 00:23:39.724
to respond to specific crimes
and emergency situations.

00:23:41.340 --> 00:23:44.419
And I would like to
revisit everyone's thoughts

00:23:44.419 --> 00:23:47.690
and remembrances of the Boston Marathon

00:23:47.690 --> 00:23:49.853
and the most recent kidnappings.

00:23:51.120 --> 00:23:55.510
Facial recognition technology
to the best of our knowledge,

00:23:55.510 --> 00:23:57.590
will greatly reduced the hours necessary

00:23:57.590 --> 00:24:00.320
to review video evidence.

00:24:00.320 --> 00:24:04.440
This would also allow
investigators to move more quickly,

00:24:04.440 --> 00:24:06.760
identify victims, missing persons

00:24:06.760 --> 00:24:10.970
or suspects of crime through
citywide camera recordings.

00:24:10.970 --> 00:24:13.760
This technology, if acquired

00:24:13.760 --> 00:24:16.160
would also allow for the compilation

00:24:16.160 --> 00:24:19.853
and condensing a video to
be done more efficiently.

00:24:21.950 --> 00:24:23.670
Facial recognition technology

00:24:23.670 --> 00:24:25.620
used with well-established guidelines

00:24:25.620 --> 00:24:27.440
and under strict review,

00:24:27.440 --> 00:24:29.380
can also provide a safer environment

00:24:29.380 --> 00:24:31.163
for all in the city of Boston.

00:24:32.240 --> 00:24:34.682
Creating a system in
which evidence is reviewed

00:24:34.682 --> 00:24:37.540
in a timely manner and efficiently

00:24:37.540 --> 00:24:40.380
allows for police to intervene

00:24:40.380 --> 00:24:45.380
and reduce levels of
crime would be beneficial.

00:24:45.458 --> 00:24:49.846
The department rejects any
notion in the ordinance

00:24:49.846 --> 00:24:54.846
that would whatever use
facial recognition technology

00:24:55.680 --> 00:24:58.790
in our response to COVID-19 pandemic.

00:24:58.790 --> 00:25:00.620
And just for the record,

00:25:00.620 --> 00:25:01.830
I'd like to repeat that,

00:25:01.830 --> 00:25:04.820
the department rejects any
notion in the ordinance

00:25:04.820 --> 00:25:09.420
that we are or will ever use
facial recognition technology

00:25:09.420 --> 00:25:12.063
in our response to COVID-19 pandemic.

00:25:13.978 --> 00:25:14.811
Finally,

00:25:18.645 --> 00:25:20.760
it is important to note,

00:25:20.760 --> 00:25:24.440
the department shares the
concerns of our community

00:25:24.440 --> 00:25:27.360
and our community concerns around privacy

00:25:27.360 --> 00:25:29.643
and intrusive surveillance,

00:25:30.680 --> 00:25:34.090
as it is the current practice
with existing technology,

00:25:34.090 --> 00:25:35.590
our intentions are to implement

00:25:35.590 --> 00:25:37.950
any potential future advances

00:25:37.950 --> 00:25:40.610
in facial recognition technology,

00:25:40.610 --> 00:25:43.461
through well-defined
protocols and procedures.

00:25:43.461 --> 00:25:47.040
Some areas we consider, excuse me,

00:25:47.040 --> 00:25:49.870
some areas we consider this
technology may be beneficial,

00:25:49.870 --> 00:25:52.260
are in identifying the route

00:25:52.260 --> 00:25:54.200
and locations of missing persons,

00:25:54.200 --> 00:25:57.390
including the suffering from
Alzheimer's and dementia,

00:25:57.390 --> 00:26:00.940
those suffering from
Alzheimer's and dementia.

00:26:00.940 --> 00:26:04.127
As well, missing children,
kidnapped individuals,

00:26:04.127 --> 00:26:06.620
human trafficking victims,

00:26:06.620 --> 00:26:09.840
and the suspects of
assaults and shootings.

00:26:09.840 --> 00:26:14.503
Also the victims of
homicide and domestic abuse.

00:26:17.720 --> 00:26:19.170
Important to know,

00:26:19.170 --> 00:26:22.560
we would like to work with
the council and our partners

00:26:22.560 --> 00:26:24.862
to clearly articulate the language

00:26:24.862 --> 00:26:27.521
that could best describe these uses.

00:26:27.521 --> 00:26:30.590
In section B2 with the proposed ordinance

00:26:30.590 --> 00:26:33.000
that indicates there is some intention

00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:35.690
to account for the use of this technology

00:26:35.690 --> 00:26:37.320
to advance investigations

00:26:37.320 --> 00:26:39.480
but the department police
some additional language

00:26:39.480 --> 00:26:43.573
referencing permitted uses is necessary.

00:26:44.761 --> 00:26:48.770
We as well, would
appreciate a working session

00:26:48.770 --> 00:26:51.380
within the next 60 days,

00:26:51.380 --> 00:26:55.350
to draft language that we
can collectively present

00:26:55.350 --> 00:26:58.990
to constituents and
requesting interest groups

00:26:58.990 --> 00:27:01.263
for feedback and input.

00:27:02.660 --> 00:27:05.130
We also plan to use the public testimony

00:27:05.130 --> 00:27:07.350
being provided in today's hearing

00:27:07.350 --> 00:27:09.513
to assist in our decision-making.

00:27:10.410 --> 00:27:12.610
I'd like to thank you for this opportunity

00:27:12.610 --> 00:27:14.620
to provide this testimony

00:27:14.620 --> 00:27:16.740
and your continued interest and time

00:27:16.740 --> 00:27:18.898
in creating public forums,

00:27:18.898 --> 00:27:21.583
around police technology and advancements.

00:27:22.810 --> 00:27:25.560
That's my official
statement that I read in.

00:27:25.560 --> 00:27:29.100
And I'm telling you right now
as an African-American male,

00:27:29.100 --> 00:27:32.110
the technology that is in place today

00:27:32.110 --> 00:27:35.500
does not meet the standards of
the Boston Police Department,

00:27:35.500 --> 00:27:37.900
nor does it meet my standards.

00:27:37.900 --> 00:27:39.470
And until technology advances

00:27:39.470 --> 00:27:42.770
to a point where it is more reliable,

00:27:42.770 --> 00:27:46.463
again, we will need your
input, your guidance,

00:27:46.463 --> 00:27:50.920
and we'll work together
to pick that technology

00:27:50.920 --> 00:27:55.164
which is more conducive to our privacy

00:27:55.164 --> 00:27:59.243
and our rights as citizens
of Boston, thank you.

00:28:01.690 --> 00:28:03.850
Thank you very much commissioner Gross.

00:28:03.850 --> 00:28:06.520
Do you, just before I go on,

00:28:06.520 --> 00:28:08.927
we're gonna go now to Joy Buolamwini

00:28:12.120 --> 00:28:13.800
and I am so sorry for that Joy.

00:28:13.800 --> 00:28:16.890
I apologize profusely for the
butchering of your last name.

00:28:16.890 --> 00:28:21.582
My'kel McMillen, Karina
Ham, Kade Crawford, Kate,

00:28:21.582 --> 00:28:26.120
Erik Berg, and Joshua Barocas.

00:28:27.090 --> 00:28:30.337
But I wanted to ask the
commissioner just very quickly,

00:28:30.337 --> 00:28:33.210
you said you have suggested language

00:28:33.210 --> 00:28:36.897
or that you would want to work
on suggested language for B2.

00:28:36.897 --> 00:28:39.010
No, I would want to work on it.

00:28:39.010 --> 00:28:42.242
So keep in mind anything
we do going forward,

00:28:42.242 --> 00:28:44.670
as I promised for the last four years,

00:28:44.670 --> 00:28:47.258
we want your input and your guidance.

00:28:47.258 --> 00:28:50.430
Councilor Mejia you hit it on point.

00:28:50.430 --> 00:28:52.730
This technology is not fair to everyone,

00:28:52.730 --> 00:28:55.670
especially African-Americans, Latinos,

00:28:55.670 --> 00:28:57.120
it's not there yet.

00:28:57.120 --> 00:28:58.960
So moving forward,

00:28:58.960 --> 00:29:00.990
we have to make sure
everybody's comfortable

00:29:00.990 --> 00:29:02.563
with this type of technology.

00:29:03.700 --> 00:29:04.533
Thank you.

00:29:05.456 --> 00:29:08.962
So now I'm gonna turn it
over to some of the folks

00:29:08.962 --> 00:29:12.678
who have called for to speak.

00:29:12.678 --> 00:29:15.522
Hope we're gonna try and get through

00:29:15.522 --> 00:29:17.020
as many of them as possible.

00:29:17.020 --> 00:29:19.155
Commissioner, these are the
folks who helped to push

00:29:19.155 --> 00:29:20.160
and move this ordinance.

00:29:20.160 --> 00:29:21.855
We really hope you can
stay as long as you can

00:29:21.855 --> 00:29:22.900
to hear them, also.

00:29:22.900 --> 00:29:25.276
I'm looking forward to
working with the folks

00:29:25.276 --> 00:29:26.836
in the community.

00:29:26.836 --> 00:29:28.130
Wonderful, thank you.

00:29:28.130 --> 00:29:29.323
So Joy.

00:29:31.090 --> 00:29:31.943
Do I?

00:29:34.760 --> 00:29:36.370
Hello?

00:29:36.370 --> 00:29:38.200
Oh, wonderful, Joy.

00:29:38.200 --> 00:29:39.520
The floor is yours.

00:29:39.520 --> 00:29:43.740
If you could take about
three minutes or no more.

00:29:43.740 --> 00:29:44.950
Sounds good.

00:29:44.950 --> 00:29:47.070
So thank you so much madam chair Edwards,

00:29:47.070 --> 00:29:50.260
members of the committee
on government operations

00:29:50.260 --> 00:29:53.390
and members of the Boston City Council

00:29:53.390 --> 00:29:55.870
for the opportunity to testify today,

00:29:55.870 --> 00:29:58.360
I am the founder of the
Algorithmic Justice League

00:29:58.360 --> 00:30:00.880
and an algorithmic bias researcher.

00:30:00.880 --> 00:30:02.840
I've conducted MIT study

00:30:02.840 --> 00:30:05.420
showing some of the
largest recorded gender

00:30:05.420 --> 00:30:09.350
and racial biases in AI
systems sold by companies,

00:30:09.350 --> 00:30:12.610
including IBM, Microsoft and Amazon.

00:30:12.610 --> 00:30:15.130
As you've heard the deployment
of facial recognition

00:30:15.130 --> 00:30:17.117
and related technologies

00:30:17.117 --> 00:30:19.040
has major civil rights implications.

00:30:19.040 --> 00:30:21.400
These tools also have
technical limitations

00:30:21.400 --> 00:30:24.370
that further amplify
harms for black people,

00:30:24.370 --> 00:30:27.480
indigenous people, other
communities of color,

00:30:27.480 --> 00:30:31.290
women, the elderly, those
with dementia and Parkinson's,

00:30:31.290 --> 00:30:35.610
youth trans and gender
non-conforming individuals.

00:30:35.610 --> 00:30:37.050
In one test I ran,

00:30:37.050 --> 00:30:41.310
Amazon's AI even failed on
the face of Oprah Winfrey,

00:30:41.310 --> 00:30:43.120
labeling her male.

00:30:43.120 --> 00:30:46.360
Personally, I've had to resort
to wearing a white mask,

00:30:46.360 --> 00:30:50.550
to have my dark skin detected
by some of this technology,

00:30:50.550 --> 00:30:52.730
but given mass surveillance applications,

00:30:52.730 --> 00:30:55.940
not having my face
detected can be a benefit.

00:30:55.940 --> 00:30:57.980
We do not need to look to China

00:30:58.921 --> 00:31:00.270
to see this technology
being used for surveillance

00:31:00.270 --> 00:31:03.130
of protesters with little
to no accountability,

00:31:03.130 --> 00:31:06.850
and too often in violation of
our civil and human rights,

00:31:06.850 --> 00:31:09.860
including first amendment
rights of freedom of expression,

00:31:09.860 --> 00:31:12.333
association, and assembly.

00:31:13.270 --> 00:31:14.330
When the tech works,

00:31:14.330 --> 00:31:16.770
we can't forget about
the cost of surveillance,

00:31:16.770 --> 00:31:18.900
but in other contexts it can fail

00:31:18.900 --> 00:31:20.660
and the failures can be harmful.

00:31:20.660 --> 00:31:23.700
Misidentifications can
lead to false arrest

00:31:23.700 --> 00:31:25.130
and accusations.

00:31:25.130 --> 00:31:28.160
In April 2019, a brown university senior

00:31:28.160 --> 00:31:31.570
was misidentified as a terrorist suspect

00:31:31.570 --> 00:31:34.459
in the Sri Lanka Easter bombings.

00:31:34.459 --> 00:31:36.360
he police eventually
corrected the mistake,

00:31:36.360 --> 00:31:38.470
but she still received death threats.

00:31:38.470 --> 00:31:41.670
Mistaken identity is more
than an inconvenience.

00:31:41.670 --> 00:31:44.000
And she's not alone, in the UK,

00:31:44.000 --> 00:31:47.150
the faces of over 2,400 innocent people

00:31:47.150 --> 00:31:50.740
were stored by the police
department without their consent.

00:31:50.740 --> 00:31:52.050
The department reported

00:31:52.050 --> 00:31:55.983
a false positive identification
rate of over 90%.

00:31:56.941 --> 00:32:00.300
In the U.S. there are no
reporting requirements

00:32:00.300 --> 00:32:03.610
generally speaking, so
we're operating in the dark.

00:32:03.610 --> 00:32:05.500
Further, these tools
do not have to identify

00:32:05.500 --> 00:32:07.500
unique basis to be harmful.

00:32:07.500 --> 00:32:08.900
And investigation reported

00:32:08.900 --> 00:32:11.200
that IBM equipped the NYP

00:32:11.200 --> 00:32:13.370
with tools to search for people in video,

00:32:13.370 --> 00:32:15.700
by facial hair and skin tone.

00:32:15.700 --> 00:32:17.210
In short, these tools can be used

00:32:17.210 --> 00:32:19.440
to automate racial profiling.

00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:21.120
The company recently came out

00:32:21.120 --> 00:32:22.770
to denounce the use of these tools

00:32:22.770 --> 00:32:25.240
for mass surveillance and profiling.

00:32:25.240 --> 00:32:29.583
IBM's moved to stop selling
facial recognition technology

00:32:29.583 --> 00:32:32.310
underscores it's dangerous.

00:32:32.310 --> 00:32:34.340
Due to the consequences of failure,

00:32:34.340 --> 00:32:36.430
I've focused my MIT research

00:32:36.430 --> 00:32:39.210
on the performance of
facial analysis systems.

00:32:39.210 --> 00:32:42.063
I found that for the task
of gender classification,

00:32:42.063 --> 00:32:44.610
IBM, Microsoft and Amazon

00:32:44.610 --> 00:32:48.790
had air rates of no more
than 1% for lighter skin men.

00:32:48.790 --> 00:32:49.833
In the worst case,

00:32:51.101 --> 00:32:54.080
these rates were to over
30% for darker skin women.

00:32:54.080 --> 00:32:57.230
Subsequent government
studies compliment this work.

00:32:57.230 --> 00:33:01.010
They show that continued air
disparities in facial analysis

00:33:01.010 --> 00:33:03.680
and other tasks, including
face recognition.

00:33:03.680 --> 00:33:07.860
The latest government
study of 189 algorithms,

00:33:07.860 --> 00:33:10.560
revealed consequential racial gender

00:33:10.560 --> 00:33:13.960
and age bias in many of
the algorithms tested.

00:33:13.960 --> 00:33:16.050
Still, even if air rates improve,

00:33:16.050 --> 00:33:18.899
the capacity for abuse, lack of oversight

00:33:18.899 --> 00:33:22.770
and deployment limitations
post too great a risk.

00:33:22.770 --> 00:33:25.080
Given known harms, the city of Boston

00:33:25.080 --> 00:33:28.150
should ban government
use of face surveillance.

00:33:28.150 --> 00:33:30.040
I look forward to
answering your questions.

00:33:30.040 --> 00:33:32.563
Thank you for the opportunity to testify.

00:33:33.603 --> 00:33:34.623
Thank you so much

00:33:34.623 --> 00:33:38.497
and to correct my horrible
mispronunciation of your name.

00:33:39.500 --> 00:33:42.770
Would you mind saying your
full name for the record again?

00:33:42.770 --> 00:33:45.600
Sure, my name is Joy Buolamwini.

00:33:45.600 --> 00:33:47.141
Thank you very much Joy.

00:33:47.141 --> 00:33:49.962
I'm gonna now turn over
to My'Kel McMillen,

00:33:49.962 --> 00:33:51.700
a youth advocate.

00:33:51.700 --> 00:33:55.163
I'm also gonna set the
clock three minutes, My'Kel.

00:33:59.801 --> 00:34:01.220
God afternoon madam chair,

00:34:01.220 --> 00:34:03.190
good afternoon city councilor,

00:34:03.190 --> 00:34:04.690
good afternoon everybody else.

00:34:06.014 --> 00:34:09.090
My name is My'Kel McMillen,
I'm a youth advocate

00:34:10.279 --> 00:34:13.179
I'm also an organizer [indistinct]
which is from the east.

00:34:15.688 --> 00:34:17.000
I just want to talk about on a little bit

00:34:17.000 --> 00:34:20.273
about what's going on within
the streets of Boston.

00:34:22.767 --> 00:34:23.690
For centuries black folks

00:34:23.690 --> 00:34:25.780
have been the Guinea pig in America,

00:34:25.780 --> 00:34:27.150
from experiments with our bodies

00:34:27.150 --> 00:34:29.193
to the strain on our communities,

00:34:29.193 --> 00:34:31.991
it seems [indistinct]

00:34:31.991 --> 00:34:35.200
Do I agree police are as involved?

00:34:35.200 --> 00:34:37.370
Yes, there are no longer
catching us glaze,

00:34:37.370 --> 00:34:39.726
but catching poor black and brown folks.

00:34:39.726 --> 00:34:43.960
On January, so I wanna
talk about three years ago,

00:34:43.960 --> 00:34:46.980
roughly January around 2017,

00:34:46.980 --> 00:34:50.985
there were residents from my
neighborhood that came up to me

00:34:50.985 --> 00:34:54.486
that they asking a drone
flying into the area

00:34:54.486 --> 00:34:56.840
and they asked numerous times

00:34:56.840 --> 00:34:59.199
and nobody could figure out
who was flying the drone,

00:34:59.199 --> 00:35:01.477
who's controlling it.

00:35:01.477 --> 00:35:04.470
And so upon receiving his information,

00:35:04.470 --> 00:35:07.400
I live across the street
from a soda company,

00:35:07.400 --> 00:35:09.060
and later on that night,

00:35:09.060 --> 00:35:10.940
I seen officers playing with a drone

00:35:10.940 --> 00:35:13.122
and I ended up taking the
photos of their drone.

00:35:13.122 --> 00:35:14.320
And it kind of jogged my memory back

00:35:14.320 --> 00:35:16.170
that this was a drone

00:35:16.170 --> 00:35:18.460
that lots of residents in my neighborhood

00:35:18.460 --> 00:35:20.000
had seen and talked about.

00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:21.920
That no one knew who was flying the drone.

00:35:21.920 --> 00:35:24.200
It comes to my knowledge,
it was the police.

00:35:24.200 --> 00:35:26.590
So with doing some research

00:35:26.590 --> 00:35:28.910
and reaching out to a friend over at ACLU

00:35:29.940 --> 00:35:32.800
and we try to follow up
a public records request,

00:35:32.800 --> 00:35:34.680
which we were denied our first time,

00:35:34.680 --> 00:35:35.940
and then eventually got it,

00:35:35.940 --> 00:35:40.167
where the Boston police has
spent the amount of $17,500

00:35:41.060 --> 00:35:42.830
on three police drones.

00:35:42.830 --> 00:35:45.900
And nobody knew about it from
city council to the public.

00:35:45.900 --> 00:35:48.048
It was kind of kept secret

00:35:48.048 --> 00:35:50.930
and there was no committee oversight.

00:35:50.930 --> 00:35:53.700
And these drones were flying illegally

00:35:53.700 --> 00:35:57.928
in the side of a neighborhood
and the breach of privacy,

00:35:57.928 --> 00:36:02.928
The not knowing what
information was being collected,

00:36:05.388 --> 00:36:07.840
what was being stored,
how it was being stored

00:36:07.840 --> 00:36:10.220
that really scared a lot
of folks in my neighborhood

00:36:10.220 --> 00:36:12.490
and to the point that a lot
of them didn't wanna speak up

00:36:12.490 --> 00:36:15.480
because of past experience
of dealing with abuse

00:36:15.480 --> 00:36:17.020
and being harassed.

00:36:17.020 --> 00:36:18.910
Nobody wanted that backlash,

00:36:18.910 --> 00:36:20.760
but at the same time,

00:36:20.760 --> 00:36:22.160
we have to be as residents

00:36:22.160 --> 00:36:25.760
and have to empower one
another and have to speak up.

00:36:25.760 --> 00:36:29.930
And sometimes it has to
be somebody regardless

00:36:29.930 --> 00:36:33.340
if it's myself or another individual,

00:36:33.340 --> 00:36:35.080
we have to hold people accountable.

00:36:35.080 --> 00:36:37.970
And something that Monica
Candace, who's another activist,

00:36:37.970 --> 00:36:39.970
accountability has no colors to another,

00:36:39.970 --> 00:36:43.180
regardless if you're white,
black in a blue uniform,

00:36:43.180 --> 00:36:44.740
you still have to be held accountable.

00:36:44.740 --> 00:36:46.860
And then just to see that
no one was held accountable

00:36:46.860 --> 00:36:48.484
was a scary thing,

00:36:48.484 --> 00:36:50.660
because it kind of just [indistinct]

00:36:53.890 --> 00:36:55.330
Nobody ever gets caught accountable

00:36:55.330 --> 00:36:58.840
because our voices are muffled by money

00:36:58.840 --> 00:37:03.780
or just a knee in the neck,
rest in peace to George Floyd.

00:37:03.780 --> 00:37:05.622
That is it for my time, thank you all.

00:37:05.622 --> 00:37:08.513
Thank you, thank you so much.

00:37:08.513 --> 00:37:09.830
Perfect testimony.

00:37:09.830 --> 00:37:11.760
And I really appreciate you
speaking from the heart,

00:37:11.760 --> 00:37:13.450
from your own experience

00:37:13.450 --> 00:37:16.030
and also demonstrating how you've actually

00:37:16.030 --> 00:37:18.420
had conversation for accountability

00:37:18.420 --> 00:37:19.740
through your leadership.

00:37:19.740 --> 00:37:21.810
So I wanna thank you for that.

00:37:21.810 --> 00:37:25.160
Up next we have Karina Hem

00:37:25.160 --> 00:37:27.271
from the Student Immigrant Movement.

00:37:27.271 --> 00:37:30.230
Three minutes, Karina.

00:37:30.230 --> 00:37:31.660
Hi everyone.

00:37:31.660 --> 00:37:34.970
Thank you everyone for joining
us today at this hearing,

00:37:34.970 --> 00:37:36.220
my name is Karina Hem,

00:37:36.220 --> 00:37:38.062
and I'm the field organizer

00:37:38.062 --> 00:37:39.230
for the Student Immigrant Movement.

00:37:39.230 --> 00:37:41.379
I would like to also thank our partners

00:37:41.379 --> 00:37:43.730
who've been working on the
facial recognition ban,

00:37:43.730 --> 00:37:46.580
city councilors, Michelle
Wu, Ricardo Arroyo,

00:37:46.580 --> 00:37:49.230
Andrea Campbell, Kim Janey.
Annesa Essaibi George,

00:37:49.230 --> 00:37:51.170
along with ACLU of Massachusetts,

00:37:51.170 --> 00:37:53.740
Muslim Justice League
and Unafraid Educators.

00:37:53.740 --> 00:37:55.780
So SIM is a statewide
grassroots organization

00:37:55.780 --> 00:37:58.300
by and for the undocumented youth.

00:37:58.300 --> 00:38:01.330
We work closely with our
members or our young people

00:38:01.330 --> 00:38:03.910
to create trusting and
empowering relationships.

00:38:03.910 --> 00:38:06.470
At SIM we fight for the
permanent protection

00:38:06.470 --> 00:38:08.420
of our undocumented
youth and their families

00:38:08.420 --> 00:38:09.830
through collective action.

00:38:09.830 --> 00:38:11.570
And one of the major role of the work

00:38:11.570 --> 00:38:13.230
in the organizing that we do,

00:38:13.230 --> 00:38:15.870
is to challenge these systems
that continue to exploit

00:38:15.870 --> 00:38:17.810
and disenfranchise the undocumented

00:38:18.989 --> 00:38:19.822
and immigrant communities.

00:38:19.822 --> 00:38:21.897
So I am here on behalf of SIM

00:38:21.897 --> 00:38:23.200
to support the ban on facial recognition

00:38:23.200 --> 00:38:24.680
because it's another system,

00:38:24.680 --> 00:38:26.500
it's another tool that will intentionally

00:38:26.500 --> 00:38:28.890
be used against marginalized community.

00:38:28.890 --> 00:38:30.900
So the undocumented immigrant community

00:38:30.900 --> 00:38:33.440
is not mutually exclusive
to one particular group.

00:38:33.440 --> 00:38:35.539
We have transgender people,

00:38:35.539 --> 00:38:37.550
black, Latina, exmuslim,
people with disabilities,

00:38:37.550 --> 00:38:39.200
and it's so intersectional.

00:38:39.200 --> 00:38:42.353
And so the stakes for getting
this identified are high

00:38:42.353 --> 00:38:44.275
because this creates a dangerous situation

00:38:44.275 --> 00:38:45.260
for people who are undocumented.

00:38:45.260 --> 00:38:47.440
And these programs are
made to accurately identify

00:38:47.440 --> 00:38:49.500
white adult males, living
black and brown folks

00:38:49.500 --> 00:38:53.137
at risk on top of living
in marginalized community.

00:38:53.137 --> 00:38:55.077
And so many of the
young people I work with

00:38:55.077 --> 00:38:56.700
are students who are in college

00:38:56.700 --> 00:38:58.400
and many are still in high school.

00:38:58.400 --> 00:39:00.640
Face surveillance technology
is not meant for children,

00:39:00.640 --> 00:39:02.520
and it's not meant for the young people

00:39:02.520 --> 00:39:04.040
and law enforcement already uses it

00:39:04.040 --> 00:39:07.460
to monitor the youth in places
like Lockport, New York.

00:39:07.460 --> 00:39:08.610
Their face surveillance system

00:39:08.610 --> 00:39:10.780
has been adopted in their school district,

00:39:10.780 --> 00:39:12.650
and they've already spent
over a million dollars

00:39:12.650 --> 00:39:13.483
in the system.

00:39:13.483 --> 00:39:14.420
So you ask yourself,

00:39:14.420 --> 00:39:16.800
but what is exactly the intent
to have these surveillance?

00:39:16.800 --> 00:39:19.400
Do you still have the
right to their privacy

00:39:19.400 --> 00:39:22.020
and have the right to live
without constant infringement

00:39:22.020 --> 00:39:24.060
and interference of law enforcement.

00:39:24.060 --> 00:39:25.920
If another city allows facial surveillance

00:39:25.920 --> 00:39:27.660
in their schools to happen,

00:39:27.660 --> 00:39:29.740
the chance of that occurring
here is high as well

00:39:29.740 --> 00:39:32.330
if we do not ban facial
recognition in Boston.

00:39:32.330 --> 00:39:33.960
And we believe this because the youth,

00:39:33.960 --> 00:39:34.950
the undocumented youth,

00:39:34.950 --> 00:39:37.560
there are already not
protected in their schools,

00:39:37.560 --> 00:39:38.950
school disciplinary reports,

00:39:38.950 --> 00:39:42.280
which currently have no guideline
protocol or clear criteria

00:39:42.280 --> 00:39:44.190
on what exactly school officers can write

00:39:44.190 --> 00:39:46.730
are sent to the superintendent
and their designee

00:39:46.730 --> 00:39:49.010
to sign off and sent to the
Boston Police Department.

00:39:49.010 --> 00:39:52.397
And still we've seen that
some of these reports

00:39:52.397 --> 00:39:53.230
actually go straight to
the police department

00:39:53.230 --> 00:39:54.183
with no oversight.

00:39:55.059 --> 00:39:56.550
And so this endangers the
life of immigrant youth,

00:39:56.550 --> 00:39:59.180
because Boston Police
Departments share information

00:39:59.180 --> 00:40:02.061
and databases with agencies like I.C.E.

00:40:02.061 --> 00:40:03.679
So it creates a gateway to imprisonment

00:40:03.679 --> 00:40:05.760
and deportation from any
of these young folks.

00:40:05.760 --> 00:40:07.800
And so adding facial
surveillance into schools

00:40:07.800 --> 00:40:10.590
and in the city would be used
against those same students

00:40:10.590 --> 00:40:11.670
who are already at risk

00:40:11.670 --> 00:40:14.170
for being separated from their community.

00:40:14.170 --> 00:40:15.340
We know that black and brown youth

00:40:15.340 --> 00:40:16.993
experience depression every day,

00:40:18.460 --> 00:40:19.810
and they already are deemed
suspicious by law enforcement

00:40:20.788 --> 00:40:21.880
based on their skin color
and the clothes they wear,

00:40:21.880 --> 00:40:23.870
the people they interact with in more.

00:40:23.870 --> 00:40:25.500
And so adding facial recognition,

00:40:25.500 --> 00:40:28.070
that's not even accurate to
surveil our youth and families

00:40:28.070 --> 00:40:32.539
will just be used to justify
their arrests or deportation.

00:40:32.539 --> 00:40:35.346
And through the policing system,

00:40:35.346 --> 00:40:36.460
we were already asking for police officers

00:40:36.460 --> 00:40:37.870
to engage with the youth in ways

00:40:37.870 --> 00:40:40.530
that are just harmful to
the youth development.

00:40:40.530 --> 00:40:45.180
The city of Boston needs to
stop criminalizing young folks,

00:40:45.180 --> 00:40:47.560
whether they engage in
criminal activity or not,

00:40:47.560 --> 00:40:49.980
arresting them will not get
to the root of the problem.

00:40:49.980 --> 00:40:51.130
There are so many options

00:40:51.130 --> 00:40:53.739
that are much safer and
more secure for our youth,

00:40:53.739 --> 00:40:56.070
for the families and their futures.

00:40:56.070 --> 00:40:58.020
Banning facial recognition
would meet law enforcement

00:40:58.020 --> 00:41:00.660
has one less tool to
criminalize our youth.

00:41:00.660 --> 00:41:01.860
Thanks so much everyone.

00:41:02.979 --> 00:41:04.686
Thank you.

00:41:04.686 --> 00:41:09.060
Commissioner, I understand
time it'd be of the essence,

00:41:09.060 --> 00:41:13.883
but I'm really hoping you can
stay till about 4:15, 4:30,

00:41:15.400 --> 00:41:18.143
please, please.

00:41:21.688 --> 00:41:25.220
I can stay until four, that's it.

00:41:25.220 --> 00:41:29.593
I have to go at four, that long.

00:41:30.440 --> 00:41:33.253
Okay, so-

00:41:34.831 --> 00:41:35.900
I appreciate everyone's testimony as well.

00:41:35.900 --> 00:41:37.830
I have a team we're taking notes.

00:41:37.830 --> 00:41:41.940
So I don't think when I go
that no one's taking notes.

00:41:41.940 --> 00:41:43.510
We would really wanna meet again

00:41:43.510 --> 00:41:45.863
and discuss on this technology.

00:41:46.750 --> 00:41:48.270
I know that there are some councilors

00:41:48.270 --> 00:41:50.527
that have some clarifying questions

00:41:50.527 --> 00:41:53.100
and we have three more people to speak.

00:41:53.100 --> 00:41:56.870
And so I am begging you, please,

00:41:56.870 --> 00:41:59.550
if you can at least get
to the lead sponsors,

00:41:59.550 --> 00:42:01.783
councilor Wu and councilor Arroyo.

00:42:03.440 --> 00:42:07.670
That'll be three, six, nine, 10.

00:42:07.670 --> 00:42:09.400
That'd be probably 20 more minutes.

00:42:09.400 --> 00:42:11.239
A little after four.

00:42:11.239 --> 00:42:14.438
Okay.
A little close for me.

00:42:14.438 --> 00:42:15.483
[Gross laughs]

00:42:15.483 --> 00:42:17.102
We're trying, we're trying.

00:42:17.102 --> 00:42:18.699
I understand, I understand, go ahead.

00:42:18.699 --> 00:42:22.141
Thank you, Kade.

00:42:22.141 --> 00:42:24.170
Thank you chair.

00:42:24.170 --> 00:42:25.310
My name is Kade Crawford.

00:42:25.310 --> 00:42:27.790
I am the director of the
Technology for Liberty Program

00:42:27.790 --> 00:42:29.461
at the ACLU of Massachusetts.

00:42:29.461 --> 00:42:31.930
Chair Edwards, members of the committee

00:42:31.930 --> 00:42:33.220
and members of the city council,

00:42:33.220 --> 00:42:34.750
thank you all for the opportunity

00:42:34.750 --> 00:42:36.973
to speak on this crucial issue today.

00:42:36.973 --> 00:42:40.750
We are obviously in the midst
of a massive social upheaval

00:42:40.750 --> 00:42:43.130
as people across Boston and the nation

00:42:43.130 --> 00:42:46.010
demand that we ensure black lives matter

00:42:46.010 --> 00:42:48.650
by shifting our budget
priorities away from policing

00:42:48.650 --> 00:42:51.430
and incarceration and
towards government programs

00:42:51.430 --> 00:42:54.063
that lift people up instead
of holding them back.

00:42:54.063 --> 00:42:56.850
And people are outraged
because for too long

00:42:56.850 --> 00:42:59.250
police departments have
been armed to the teeth

00:42:59.250 --> 00:43:02.544
and equipped with military
style surveillance technologies,

00:43:02.544 --> 00:43:04.970
Like the ones that My'Kel just referenced.

00:43:04.970 --> 00:43:08.340
Even as our schools lack
the most basic needs,

00:43:08.340 --> 00:43:11.460
like functioning water
fountains, nurses and counselors.

00:43:11.460 --> 00:43:13.620
And even now during this pandemic,

00:43:13.620 --> 00:43:16.690
as our healthcare providers
lack the PPE they need

00:43:16.690 --> 00:43:18.880
to protect themselves and us,

00:43:18.880 --> 00:43:21.340
but our government cannot continue to act

00:43:23.056 --> 00:43:24.812
as if it is at war with its residents,

00:43:24.812 --> 00:43:25.960
waging counter-insurgency surveillance

00:43:25.960 --> 00:43:27.981
and control operations,

00:43:27.981 --> 00:43:29.720
particularly in black
and brown neighborhoods

00:43:29.720 --> 00:43:31.470
and against black and brown people.

00:43:32.562 --> 00:43:35.710
We must act, we must not merely
speak to change our laws,

00:43:35.710 --> 00:43:37.990
to ensure we are building a free,

00:43:37.990 --> 00:43:41.620
just an equitable future
for all people in Boston.

00:43:41.620 --> 00:43:42.660
So that said,

00:43:42.660 --> 00:43:45.520
banning face surveillance
in Boston is a no-brainer.

00:43:45.520 --> 00:43:47.640
It is one small but vital piece

00:43:47.640 --> 00:43:50.780
of this larger necessary transformation.

00:43:50.780 --> 00:43:52.840
Face surveillance is
dangerous when it works

00:43:52.840 --> 00:43:54.260
and when it doesn't.

00:43:54.260 --> 00:43:56.180
Banning this technology in Boston now

00:43:56.180 --> 00:43:58.260
is not an academic issue.

00:43:58.260 --> 00:44:00.970
Indeed the city already uses technology

00:44:00.970 --> 00:44:02.900
that with one mere software upgrade

00:44:02.900 --> 00:44:06.630
could blanket Boston in the
kind of dystopian surveillance

00:44:06.630 --> 00:44:09.050
currently practiced by
authoritarian regimes

00:44:09.050 --> 00:44:10.630
in China and Russia.

00:44:10.630 --> 00:44:11.880
And as Joyce said,

00:44:11.880 --> 00:44:14.850
even some cities right
here in the United States.

00:44:14.850 --> 00:44:17.160
Boston has to strike a different path

00:44:17.160 --> 00:44:19.760
by protecting privacy, racial justice,

00:44:19.760 --> 00:44:21.370
and first amendment rights.

00:44:21.370 --> 00:44:23.800
We must ban this technology now,

00:44:23.800 --> 00:44:26.900
before it creeps into our
government, in the shadows,

00:44:26.900 --> 00:44:29.410
with no democratic control or oversight

00:44:29.410 --> 00:44:31.680
as it has in countless other cities,

00:44:31.680 --> 00:44:34.120
across the country and across the world.

00:44:34.120 --> 00:44:37.340
So today you already
heard from pretty much

00:44:37.340 --> 00:44:38.760
the world renowned expert

00:44:38.760 --> 00:44:41.260
on racial and gender bias
and facial recognition.

00:44:41.260 --> 00:44:44.080
Thank you so much Joy
for being with us today,

00:44:44.080 --> 00:44:46.290
your work blazed a trail
and showed the world

00:44:46.290 --> 00:44:49.150
that yes, algorithms
can in fact be racist.

00:44:49.150 --> 00:44:50.890
You also heard from my My'Kel McMillen,

00:44:50.890 --> 00:44:53.930
a young Boston and resident
who has experienced firsthand,

00:44:53.930 --> 00:44:55.260
what draconian surveillance

00:44:55.260 --> 00:44:57.529
with no accountability looks like.

00:44:57.529 --> 00:44:59.880
Karina Ham from the
Student Immigrant Movement

00:44:59.880 --> 00:45:02.030
spoke to the need to
keep face surveillance

00:45:03.850 --> 00:45:05.267
out of our public schools,

00:45:05.267 --> 00:45:06.890
where students deserve to be
able to learn without fear.

00:45:06.890 --> 00:45:09.700
You're gonna hear a
similar set of sentiments

00:45:09.700 --> 00:45:12.100
from Erik Berg of the
Boston Teachers Union

00:45:12.100 --> 00:45:15.050
and shortly medical doctor
and infectious disease expert,

00:45:15.050 --> 00:45:16.710
Joshua Barocas will testify

00:45:16.710 --> 00:45:18.930
to how this technology in Boston,

00:45:18.930 --> 00:45:21.370
would inevitably undermine trust

00:45:21.370 --> 00:45:22.930
among the most vulnerable people

00:45:22.930 --> 00:45:24.780
seeking medical care and help.

00:45:24.780 --> 00:45:27.320
Obviously that's the last
thing that we need to do,

00:45:27.320 --> 00:45:29.460
especially during a pandemic.

00:45:29.460 --> 00:45:32.510
For too long in Boston,
city agencies have acquired

00:45:32.510 --> 00:45:34.913
and deployed invasive
surveillance technologies

00:45:34.913 --> 00:45:37.530
with no public debate, transparency,

00:45:37.530 --> 00:45:39.460
accountability or oversight.

00:45:39.460 --> 00:45:41.250
In most cases, these technologies,

00:45:41.250 --> 00:45:43.180
which as My'Kel said, include drones,

00:45:43.180 --> 00:45:45.360
but also license plate readers,

00:45:45.360 --> 00:45:48.470
social media surveillance,
video analytics software

00:45:48.470 --> 00:45:51.100
and military style cell
phone spying devices,

00:45:51.100 --> 00:45:52.530
among many others.

00:45:52.530 --> 00:45:54.350
These were purchased and deployed

00:45:54.350 --> 00:45:58.090
without the city council's
knowledge, let alone approval.

00:45:58.090 --> 00:45:59.890
We have seen this routine play out

00:45:59.890 --> 00:46:03.230
over and over and over for years.

00:46:03.230 --> 00:46:06.230
This is a problem with all
surveillance technologies,

00:46:06.230 --> 00:46:08.540
but it is especially unacceptable

00:46:08.540 --> 00:46:10.140
with a technology as dangerous

00:46:10.140 --> 00:46:12.250
and dystopian as face surveillance.

00:46:12.250 --> 00:46:14.540
It is not an exaggeration to say that

00:46:14.540 --> 00:46:15.590
face surveillance would,

00:46:15.590 --> 00:46:18.100
if we allow it destroy privacy

00:46:18.100 --> 00:46:20.490
and anonymity in public space.

00:46:20.490 --> 00:46:22.270
Face surveillance technology

00:46:22.270 --> 00:46:25.430
paired with a thousands of
network surveillance cameras

00:46:25.430 --> 00:46:27.610
already installed throughout the city,

00:46:27.610 --> 00:46:30.850
would enable any official
with access to the system

00:46:30.850 --> 00:46:33.640
to automatically catalog the movements,

00:46:33.640 --> 00:46:38.281
habits and associations of
all people at all times,

00:46:38.281 --> 00:46:40.143
merely with the push of a button.

00:46:40.980 --> 00:46:43.730
This is technology that
would make it trivial

00:46:43.730 --> 00:46:46.500
for the government to
blackmail public officials

00:46:46.500 --> 00:46:48.410
for seeking substance use treatment,

00:46:48.410 --> 00:46:50.050
or to identify whistleblowers

00:46:50.050 --> 00:46:51.870
who are speaking to the Boston Globe

00:46:51.870 --> 00:46:54.520
or in its most routine manifestation

00:46:54.520 --> 00:46:57.360
to supercharge existing police harassment

00:46:57.360 --> 00:46:59.940
and surveillance of
black and brown residents

00:46:59.940 --> 00:47:02.200
merely because of the color of their skin

00:47:02.200 --> 00:47:03.860
and where they live.

00:47:03.860 --> 00:47:05.770
Using face recognition tech,

00:47:05.770 --> 00:47:09.490
the police could very easily
take photos or videos of people

00:47:09.490 --> 00:47:12.630
at any of these Black Lives
Matter demonstrations,

00:47:12.630 --> 00:47:15.100
run those images through
a computer program

00:47:15.100 --> 00:47:17.360
and automatically populate a list

00:47:17.360 --> 00:47:19.100
of each person who attended

00:47:19.100 --> 00:47:21.010
to express their first amendment rights

00:47:21.010 --> 00:47:22.870
to demand racial justice.

00:47:22.870 --> 00:47:25.520
The police could also
ask a computer program

00:47:25.520 --> 00:47:27.880
to automatically populate
a list of every person

00:47:27.880 --> 00:47:31.010
who walked down a specific
on any given morning

00:47:31.010 --> 00:47:33.010
and share that information with I.C.E.

00:47:33.010 --> 00:47:34.030
It could also be used

00:47:34.030 --> 00:47:36.190
to automatically alert law enforcement,

00:47:36.190 --> 00:47:38.020
whenever a specific person passes

00:47:38.020 --> 00:47:40.950
by a specific surveillance
camera anywhere in the city.

00:47:40.950 --> 00:47:43.150
And again, there are
thousands of these cameras

00:47:43.150 --> 00:47:45.360
with more going up each week.

00:47:45.360 --> 00:47:47.908
Yes, so we're, I'm so sorry.

00:47:47.908 --> 00:47:50.750
You're over the three minutes.

00:47:50.750 --> 00:47:51.830
Well, over the three minutes,

00:47:51.830 --> 00:47:53.970
but I'm I...

00:47:53.970 --> 00:47:57.090
and I have two more people
plus trying to get this.

00:47:57.090 --> 00:48:00.831
So I'm just letting you
know if you could summarize.

00:48:00.831 --> 00:48:02.610
All right, I'm almost done, thank you.

00:48:02.610 --> 00:48:03.960
Sorry, chair.

00:48:03.960 --> 00:48:06.350
So I'll just skip to the end and say,

00:48:06.350 --> 00:48:08.687
we're at a fork in the road right now,

00:48:08.687 --> 00:48:12.520
as Joy said, you know, major corporations,

00:48:12.520 --> 00:48:14.670
including IBM and Google are now declining

00:48:14.670 --> 00:48:17.230
to sell this technology
and that's for good reason,

00:48:17.230 --> 00:48:19.880
because of the real
potential for grave human

00:48:19.880 --> 00:48:21.660
and civil rights abuses.

00:48:21.660 --> 00:48:23.890
We the people, if we live in a democracy

00:48:23.890 --> 00:48:25.370
and need to be in the driver's seat

00:48:25.370 --> 00:48:26.350
in terms of determining

00:48:26.350 --> 00:48:28.540
whether we will use these technologies.

00:48:28.540 --> 00:48:31.150
We can either continue
with business as usual,

00:48:31.150 --> 00:48:32.720
allowing governments to adopt

00:48:32.720 --> 00:48:35.630
and deploy these technologies
unchecked in our communities,

00:48:35.630 --> 00:48:37.460
our streets, in our schools,

00:48:37.460 --> 00:48:41.340
or we can take bold
action now to press pause

00:48:41.340 --> 00:48:43.410
on the government's
use of this technology,

00:48:43.410 --> 00:48:44.960
to protect our privacy

00:48:44.960 --> 00:48:48.493
and to build a safer fewer
freer future for all of us.

00:48:50.270 --> 00:48:51.230
So please, I encourage the city council

00:48:51.230 --> 00:48:54.010
to join us by supporting
this crucial ordinance

00:48:54.010 --> 00:48:55.620
with your advocacy and with your vote

00:48:55.620 --> 00:48:58.160
and I thank you all for
your public service.

00:48:58.160 --> 00:49:01.423
Thank you very much,
Erik Berg, three minutes.

00:49:02.580 --> 00:49:04.375
Yeah, thank you.

00:49:04.375 --> 00:49:06.430
And I'll get right to the
point in the interest of time.

00:49:06.430 --> 00:49:07.620
Thank you to the council

00:49:07.620 --> 00:49:09.826
for taking this up and for
allowing this time today.

00:49:09.826 --> 00:49:11.340
And I'm here to speak today

00:49:11.340 --> 00:49:13.110
on behalf of the Boston Teachers Union

00:49:13.110 --> 00:49:16.290
and our over 10,000 members
in support of the ordinance,

00:49:16.290 --> 00:49:19.210
banning facial recognition
technology in Boston

00:49:19.210 --> 00:49:22.310
that was presented by
councilors Wu and Arroyo.

00:49:22.310 --> 00:49:24.560
We strongly oppose the
use of this technology

00:49:24.560 --> 00:49:26.050
in our public schools.

00:49:26.050 --> 00:49:28.310
Boston public schools
should be safe environments

00:49:28.310 --> 00:49:29.460
for students to learn,

00:49:29.460 --> 00:49:31.786
explore their identities
and intellect and play.

00:49:31.786 --> 00:49:35.580
Face surveillance technology
threatens that environment.

00:49:35.580 --> 00:49:38.530
The technology also threatens
the rights of our BTU members,

00:49:38.530 --> 00:49:39.700
who must be able to go to work

00:49:39.700 --> 00:49:41.490
without fearing that their every movement,

00:49:41.490 --> 00:49:44.707
habit and association will
be tracked and cataloged.

00:49:44.707 --> 00:49:46.220
To our knowledge,

00:49:46.220 --> 00:49:48.490
this technology is not
in use in our schools,

00:49:48.490 --> 00:49:50.810
but we've already witnessed
some experimenting with it.

00:49:50.810 --> 00:49:53.500
Although it was unclear
if it was authorized.

00:49:53.500 --> 00:49:55.820
Two summers ago, members of
the Boston Teachers Union,

00:49:55.820 --> 00:49:58.147
who were working in the summer program,

00:49:58.147 --> 00:49:59.010
contacted the union to let us know

00:49:59.010 --> 00:50:00.730
that they were being asked to sign in

00:50:00.730 --> 00:50:05.060
using an app called Tinder
with face recognition features.

00:50:05.060 --> 00:50:05.900
And the central office

00:50:05.900 --> 00:50:07.420
didn't seem to know about this program,

00:50:07.420 --> 00:50:08.253
and to this day,

00:50:08.253 --> 00:50:09.940
we don't know how it came about.

00:50:09.940 --> 00:50:11.370
While the district quickly stopped

00:50:11.370 --> 00:50:13.010
using the photo portion of this app

00:50:13.010 --> 00:50:15.820
and informed the union that
all photos have been deleted,

00:50:15.820 --> 00:50:17.450
this incident is indicative

00:50:17.450 --> 00:50:20.760
of how easy it is for private
security or HR companies

00:50:20.760 --> 00:50:23.750
to sell a technology to a
well-intentioned principal

00:50:23.750 --> 00:50:26.350
or superintendent who
may not have expertise

00:50:26.350 --> 00:50:27.313
in the tech field.

00:50:28.610 --> 00:50:31.330
Face surveillance in schools
transforms all students

00:50:31.330 --> 00:50:33.350
and their family members,
as well as employees

00:50:33.350 --> 00:50:35.430
into perpetual suspects,

00:50:35.430 --> 00:50:37.280
where each and every
one of their movements

00:50:37.280 --> 00:50:39.490
can be automatically monitored.

00:50:39.490 --> 00:50:41.510
The use of this technology
in public schools

00:50:41.510 --> 00:50:43.490
will negatively impact students' ability

00:50:43.490 --> 00:50:46.480
to explore new ideas,
express their creativity,

00:50:46.480 --> 00:50:48.450
and engage in student dissent

00:50:48.450 --> 00:50:50.210
and especially disturbing prospect

00:50:50.210 --> 00:50:51.930
given the current youth led protests

00:50:51.930 --> 00:50:53.950
against police violence.

00:50:53.950 --> 00:50:55.370
Even worse, as we've heard,

00:50:55.370 --> 00:50:58.170
the technology is frequently
biased and inaccurate,

00:50:58.170 --> 00:50:59.300
which raises concerns

00:50:59.300 --> 00:51:01.746
about its use to police students of color,

00:51:01.746 --> 00:51:04.210
academic peer reviewed studies,

00:51:04.210 --> 00:51:06.140
show face surveillance algorithms

00:51:06.140 --> 00:51:08.350
are too often racially based,

00:51:08.350 --> 00:51:10.040
particularly against black women

00:51:10.040 --> 00:51:14.267
with inaccuracy rates up to
35% for that demographic.

00:51:14.267 --> 00:51:16.280
We know black and brown students

00:51:16.280 --> 00:51:19.550
are more likely to be punished
for perceived misbehavior.

00:51:19.550 --> 00:51:21.360
Face surveillance will only perpetuate

00:51:21.360 --> 00:51:23.153
and reproduce this situation.

00:51:24.360 --> 00:51:25.990
When used to monitor children,

00:51:25.990 --> 00:51:28.410
this technology fails
in an essential sense

00:51:28.410 --> 00:51:29.940
because it has difficulty

00:51:29.940 --> 00:51:33.407
accurately identifying young
people as their faces change.

00:51:33.407 --> 00:51:36.640
Research that tested five top performing

00:51:36.640 --> 00:51:39.920
commercial off the shelf
face recognition systems

00:51:39.920 --> 00:51:42.860
shows there's a negative bias
when they're used on children,

00:51:42.860 --> 00:51:45.601
they perform poor on
children than on adults.

00:51:45.601 --> 00:51:48.000
That's because these systems are modeled

00:51:48.000 --> 00:51:49.360
through the use of adult faces

00:51:49.360 --> 00:51:50.900
and children look different from adults

00:51:50.900 --> 00:51:52.590
in such a way they can not be considered,

00:51:52.590 --> 00:51:54.823
they're simply scaled down versions.

00:51:56.081 --> 00:51:57.840
On top of this face,

00:51:57.840 --> 00:52:00.476
surveillance technology regularly

00:52:00.476 --> 00:52:01.710
misgenders transgender people,

00:52:01.710 --> 00:52:03.060
and will have a harmful impact

00:52:03.060 --> 00:52:05.770
on transgender young
people in our schools.

00:52:05.770 --> 00:52:08.360
Research shows that
automatic gender recognition

00:52:08.360 --> 00:52:12.010
consistently views gender
in a trans exclusive way.

00:52:12.010 --> 00:52:14.400
And consequently carries
disproportionate risk

00:52:14.400 --> 00:52:16.063
for trans people subject to it.

00:52:17.160 --> 00:52:18.720
At a time when transgender children

00:52:18.720 --> 00:52:21.160
are being stripped of their
rights at a national level,

00:52:21.160 --> 00:52:24.263
Boston must protect transgender
kids in our schools.

00:52:25.170 --> 00:52:27.892
Moreover, face surveillance in schools

00:52:27.892 --> 00:52:29.620
will contribute to the
school to prison pipeline,

00:52:29.620 --> 00:52:30.990
threatening children's welfare,

00:52:30.990 --> 00:52:34.040
educational opportunities
and life trajectories.

00:52:34.040 --> 00:52:36.500
Already, children from
marginalized communities

00:52:36.500 --> 00:52:38.620
are too often funneled
out of public schools

00:52:38.620 --> 00:52:41.951
and into the juvenile and
criminal justice systems -

00:52:41.951 --> 00:52:44.709
will inevitable this pipeline.

00:52:44.709 --> 00:52:47.990
I'll get right to the end.

00:52:47.990 --> 00:52:49.830
Finally, face surveillance technology

00:52:49.830 --> 00:52:51.940
will harm immigrant families.

00:52:51.940 --> 00:52:53.070
In this political climate,

00:52:53.070 --> 00:52:55.090
immigrants are already
fearful of engagement

00:52:55.090 --> 00:52:57.210
with public institutions

00:52:57.210 --> 00:52:58.640
and face surveillance systems

00:52:58.640 --> 00:53:01.280
would further chill student
and parent participation

00:53:01.280 --> 00:53:03.320
in immigrant communities in our schools,

00:53:03.320 --> 00:53:05.930
Boston schools must be
welcoming and safe spaces

00:53:05.930 --> 00:53:07.380
for all families.

00:53:07.380 --> 00:53:09.360
The city of Boston must take action now

00:53:09.360 --> 00:53:11.057
to ensure children and BTU workers

00:53:11.057 --> 00:53:13.000
are not subject to this unfair,

00:53:13.000 --> 00:53:15.260
biased and chilling scrutiny.

00:53:15.260 --> 00:53:16.580
In order to protect young people

00:53:16.580 --> 00:53:18.000
in our educational community,

00:53:18.000 --> 00:53:21.540
we must stop face surveillance
in schools before it begins.

00:53:21.540 --> 00:53:23.500
Thank you very much for your attention

00:53:23.500 --> 00:53:25.150
and your consideration.

00:53:25.150 --> 00:53:27.090
Thank you very much.

00:53:27.090 --> 00:53:28.814
We're getting there,

00:53:28.814 --> 00:53:30.050
very, very close commissioner I promise.

00:53:30.050 --> 00:53:31.290
Just one more person.

00:53:31.290 --> 00:53:33.440
Then the two people who specifically said

00:53:33.440 --> 00:53:36.030
they had some questions,
we'll go right to them.

00:53:36.030 --> 00:53:39.107
Joshua Barocas

00:53:40.500 --> 00:53:43.970
Yeah, I will read quickly.

00:53:43.970 --> 00:53:45.240
First of all, thanks for allowing me

00:53:45.240 --> 00:53:48.440
to testify today regarding
this important issue.

00:53:48.440 --> 00:53:50.650
I should say that the views

00:53:50.650 --> 00:53:52.130
that I'm expressing today are my own

00:53:52.130 --> 00:53:54.960
and don't necessarily
represent those of my employer,

00:53:54.960 --> 00:53:57.790
but that said I'm an
infectious disease physician

00:53:57.790 --> 00:54:00.620
and an addictions
researcher here in Boston.

00:54:00.620 --> 00:54:03.780
As such, I spend a large
majority of my time working

00:54:03.780 --> 00:54:06.460
on solutions to improve
the health and wellbeing

00:54:06.460 --> 00:54:08.070
of vulnerable populations,

00:54:08.070 --> 00:54:10.460
including people who are
experiencing homelessness,

00:54:10.460 --> 00:54:12.596
people with substance use disorders.

00:54:12.596 --> 00:54:16.770
One thing that we know
is that stigma and bias

00:54:17.635 --> 00:54:18.710
are pervasive throughout our community

00:54:18.710 --> 00:54:22.070
and lead to disparities and
care for these populations.

00:54:22.070 --> 00:54:24.540
These disparities were laid bare

00:54:24.540 --> 00:54:28.840
and exacerbated by the
ongoing COVID-19 pandemic.

00:54:28.840 --> 00:54:31.050
Well, we're all searching for answers

00:54:31.050 --> 00:54:34.010
on how to best protect
ourselves from this virus,

00:54:34.010 --> 00:54:37.530
I truly fear that the use of
facial recognition technology

00:54:37.530 --> 00:54:41.260
will only serve to exacerbate
existing disparities,

00:54:41.260 --> 00:54:44.930
including those of racial,
gender and socioeconomic.

00:54:44.930 --> 00:54:48.280
If we use this very nascent
and imperfect technology

00:54:48.280 --> 00:54:50.320
to track individuals, I'm concerned

00:54:50.320 --> 00:54:53.240
that it will only serve
the marginalized people

00:54:53.240 --> 00:54:55.170
and worse in health outcomes.

00:54:55.170 --> 00:54:57.660
We've heard about the low accuracy rates.

00:54:57.660 --> 00:54:59.890
We know about systemic racism,

00:54:59.890 --> 00:55:01.360
as a public health issue

00:55:01.360 --> 00:55:04.648
that's fueled by stigma
bias and misinformation.

00:55:04.648 --> 00:55:08.530
Additionally, Boston
provides expansive services

00:55:08.530 --> 00:55:11.730
for substance use disorders,
including methadone treatment,

00:55:11.730 --> 00:55:16.730
and it's imperative that we
ban facial recognition software

00:55:16.810 --> 00:55:18.160
to ensure that people seeking

00:55:18.160 --> 00:55:21.020
substance use disorder
treatment and mental health care

00:55:23.249 --> 00:55:25.650
among other stigmatized health
services may do so privately

00:55:25.650 --> 00:55:26.803
and without fear.

00:55:27.870 --> 00:55:30.780
If we allow this on many
of our public cameras,

00:55:30.780 --> 00:55:32.350
it would enable the government

00:55:32.350 --> 00:55:34.520
to automatically compile lists of people

00:55:34.520 --> 00:55:37.670
seeking treatment for
substance use mental health

00:55:37.670 --> 00:55:41.470
and as I said, other stigmas
stigmatized health conditions.

00:55:41.470 --> 00:55:43.120
This would have a chilling effect

00:55:44.170 --> 00:55:48.270
and disproportionately affect

00:55:48.270 --> 00:55:50.690
our most vulnerable populations.

00:55:50.690 --> 00:55:55.690
I'll stop there and ask that
we consider banning this.

00:55:58.351 --> 00:55:59.500
Thank you so very much.

00:55:59.500 --> 00:56:00.793
I'm gonna turn it over.

00:56:02.148 --> 00:56:05.810
I misspoke earlier the lead
sponsor, there's Michelle Wu,

00:56:05.810 --> 00:56:09.828
and she mentioned that she has
to move along very quickly.

00:56:09.828 --> 00:56:11.930
So I wanted to, if it's
okay, councilor Arroyo,

00:56:11.930 --> 00:56:15.120
I'm gonna go ahead and go
to councilor Wu real quick,

00:56:15.120 --> 00:56:16.540
for specific questions.

00:56:16.540 --> 00:56:18.660
Your good!
Yeah, absolutely.

00:56:18.660 --> 00:56:19.920
Councilor Wu.

00:56:19.920 --> 00:56:21.180
Thank you madam chair.

00:56:21.180 --> 00:56:22.770
And thank you so much commissioner

00:56:22.770 --> 00:56:24.380
for making the time to be here.

00:56:24.380 --> 00:56:27.463
We all know how many demands
there are in your time.

00:56:27.463 --> 00:56:29.240
And now we're asking for even
more than you had alluded.

00:56:29.240 --> 00:56:32.340
So very, very grateful that it means a lot

00:56:32.340 --> 00:56:35.810
that you took the time and
are the one at this hearing.

00:56:35.810 --> 00:56:38.820
I also wanna note that you
were the one at the hearing

00:56:38.820 --> 00:56:40.520
in June, 2018 as well.

00:56:40.520 --> 00:56:43.080
So we know that you've been
part of this conversation

00:56:43.080 --> 00:56:46.610
and supportive of this
general idea for a long time.

00:56:46.610 --> 00:56:48.662
So just to clarify on
some of what you said,

00:56:48.662 --> 00:56:51.443
you mentioned that you,

00:56:51.443 --> 00:56:53.684
you referenced the technology upgrades,

00:56:53.684 --> 00:56:55.460
that some current vendors
that BPD works with

00:56:55.460 --> 00:56:57.666
have for face surveillance.

00:56:57.666 --> 00:56:58.499
So just to clarify,

00:56:58.499 --> 00:57:01.862
has BPD upgraded to the next
version of that software

00:57:01.862 --> 00:57:03.260
and we're just choosing

00:57:03.260 --> 00:57:06.800
not to use the facial
recognition components of it,

00:57:06.800 --> 00:57:08.590
or has the upgrade not been accepted

00:57:08.590 --> 00:57:10.540
because it includes facial recognition?

00:57:11.470 --> 00:57:13.370
To my knowledge, we have not upgraded,

00:57:13.370 --> 00:57:15.830
but we anticipate that we will have to,

00:57:15.830 --> 00:57:19.190
but we will not be using any components

00:57:19.190 --> 00:57:20.970
of facial recognition.

00:57:20.970 --> 00:57:25.970
And I guess the technology
just isn't efficient enough -

00:57:26.464 --> 00:57:29.793
When do you think the
upgrade would likely happen?

00:57:30.700 --> 00:57:32.527
No, I will get back to you.

00:57:32.527 --> 00:57:34.790
And trust me, I wanna
have a further meeting

00:57:36.080 --> 00:57:38.240
so I can have my subject
matter experts here.

00:57:38.240 --> 00:57:40.472
And I'm gonna tick through,

00:57:40.472 --> 00:57:41.876
'cause I wanna try to get you out of here

00:57:41.876 --> 00:57:42.709
as quick as possible.

00:57:42.709 --> 00:57:43.990
Secondly, so you drew a distinction

00:57:43.990 --> 00:57:46.700
between face surveillance systems

00:57:46.700 --> 00:57:48.860
and facial recognition technology.

00:57:48.860 --> 00:57:50.130
So just to clarify,

00:57:50.130 --> 00:57:53.620
does BPD, we don't use that.

00:57:53.620 --> 00:57:55.314
You don't own it right now

00:57:55.314 --> 00:57:56.710
because you haven't done that upgrade,

00:57:56.710 --> 00:58:01.710
but does BPD work with other
state or federal entities

00:58:02.650 --> 00:58:04.680
that have face surveillance

00:58:04.680 --> 00:58:06.190
or facial recognition technology?

00:58:06.190 --> 00:58:08.822
Do you ever use the
results of that technology

00:58:08.822 --> 00:58:10.270
on any sort of databases?

00:58:10.270 --> 00:58:12.161
To answer you more accurately,

00:58:12.161 --> 00:58:15.670
I would have to find out.

00:58:15.670 --> 00:58:17.920
I believe the state police

00:58:17.920 --> 00:58:20.800
does have some form of facial recognition

00:58:20.800 --> 00:58:22.950
and maybe the registry to.

00:58:22.950 --> 00:58:24.900
Okay, the registry of motor vehicles.

00:58:24.900 --> 00:58:26.560
Yes.

00:58:26.560 --> 00:58:29.940
And so when state police or

00:58:29.940 --> 00:58:31.740
we'll find out more potentially BPD

00:58:31.740 --> 00:58:34.970
works with the RMB to
run matches of photos

00:58:34.970 --> 00:58:36.280
against their database.

00:58:36.280 --> 00:58:38.300
Do you need any sort of warrants

00:58:38.300 --> 00:58:40.410
or other approvals to do that before,

00:58:40.410 --> 00:58:42.357
for let's say the state?

00:58:45.240 --> 00:58:48.270
So I used to be part of
the Bureau of Investigative

00:58:48.270 --> 00:58:49.820
Services, to my knowledge,

00:58:49.820 --> 00:58:53.718
it's only utilized to help
assist in photo arrays.

00:58:53.718 --> 00:58:57.003
So nothing past that.

00:58:58.150 --> 00:59:00.790
Okay, could you just clarify
what you mean by that?

00:59:00.790 --> 00:59:03.180
So if you a victim of a crime

00:59:03.180 --> 00:59:05.010
and we don't have that
person under arrest,

00:59:05.010 --> 00:59:07.470
what do we do have a potential suspect?

00:59:07.470 --> 00:59:08.830
You have to pick,

00:59:08.830 --> 00:59:10.910
you were allowed the opportunity

00:59:10.910 --> 00:59:15.380
to try to identify the
suspect of the crime.

00:59:15.380 --> 00:59:16.890
And so to be fair,

00:59:16.890 --> 00:59:20.223
to ensure that no innocent
person is selected,

00:59:23.300 --> 00:59:27.277
you put the suspects picture

00:59:27.277 --> 00:59:30.020
along with several other suspects pictures

00:59:30.020 --> 00:59:31.250
up to seven or more,

00:59:31.250 --> 00:59:33.730
and then you see if
the victim of the crime

00:59:33.730 --> 00:59:37.313
can pick the suspect
out of that photo array.

00:59:38.410 --> 00:59:41.710
Okay, and so the RMB
uses the face recognition

00:59:41.710 --> 00:59:43.490
to provide those burdens.

00:59:43.490 --> 00:59:47.210
I wanna give you an accurate answer.

00:59:47.210 --> 00:59:52.210
So again, in our next meeting,
you'll have your answer.

00:59:53.010 --> 00:59:53.843
Thank you.

00:59:56.750 --> 00:59:59.830
Are you aware of any state
or federal regulations

00:59:59.830 --> 01:00:03.736
that provide any sort
of kind of restrictions

01:00:03.736 --> 01:00:05.340
or reigning in guidance when it comes

01:00:06.193 --> 01:00:07.680
to facial recognition technology

01:00:07.680 --> 01:00:09.283
or face surveillance systems?

01:00:10.260 --> 01:00:11.230
Nope.

01:00:11.230 --> 01:00:15.500
Okay, and so given the absence
of guidelines right now

01:00:15.500 --> 01:00:17.020
with the federal state or city level

01:00:17.020 --> 01:00:20.670
and the need to upgrade and
the use by state police,

01:00:20.670 --> 01:00:22.958
for example, are you supportive,

01:00:22.958 --> 01:00:25.053
we're hearing you loud and clear

01:00:25.053 --> 01:00:25.886
that you'd like to have
further conversation,

01:00:25.886 --> 01:00:28.100
we just wanna get your opinion now,

01:00:28.100 --> 01:00:30.974
are you supportive of a city level ban

01:00:30.974 --> 01:00:34.810
until there are policies
in place potentially,

01:00:34.810 --> 01:00:38.830
at other levels or
specifically at the city level

01:00:38.830 --> 01:00:41.310
to reign in surveillance overall?

01:00:41.310 --> 01:00:42.320
Yes, I am.

01:00:42.320 --> 01:00:44.960
I've been clear for four years.

01:00:44.960 --> 01:00:46.770
We need your input, your guidance.

01:00:46.770 --> 01:00:49.290
And I thank you to everyone
that testified today.

01:00:49.290 --> 01:00:51.360
I have a team taking notes

01:00:51.360 --> 01:00:54.160
because I didn't forget
that I'm African-American

01:00:54.160 --> 01:00:56.600
and I could be misidentified as well.

01:00:56.600 --> 01:01:00.430
And I believe that we have
one of the most diversified

01:01:00.430 --> 01:01:03.020
populations in the history of our city.

01:01:03.020 --> 01:01:06.193
And we do have to be fair to everyone

01:01:06.193 --> 01:01:08.470
that is a citizen of Boston.

01:01:08.470 --> 01:01:10.960
We don't want anyone misidentified.

01:01:10.960 --> 01:01:15.150
And again we will work with everyone here

01:01:15.150 --> 01:01:18.090
because this is how we will be educated.

01:01:18.090 --> 01:01:20.199
Yes, we're very grateful for your time.

01:01:20.199 --> 01:01:21.810
I'm gonna see to the co-sponsor.

01:01:21.810 --> 01:01:22.643
Thank you.

01:01:23.850 --> 01:01:27.956
So, actually, is that fine chair?

01:01:27.956 --> 01:01:31.210
I just wanna thank you commissioner

01:01:31.210 --> 01:01:34.637
for supporting the facial
recognition surveillance ban

01:01:34.637 --> 01:01:37.354
and for taking the time to
be here for the questions.

01:01:37.354 --> 01:01:39.210
Councilor Wu asked many of them,

01:01:39.210 --> 01:01:41.500
I have one specific one which is,

01:01:41.500 --> 01:01:45.100
has the BPD used facial
recognition in the past,

01:01:45.100 --> 01:01:46.223
in any capacity?

01:01:47.534 --> 01:01:49.350
No, not to my knowledge.

01:01:49.350 --> 01:01:53.230
And I will review that, but
not to my knowledge at all.

01:01:53.230 --> 01:01:56.540
And BRC, does BRC have access

01:01:57.892 --> 01:01:58.725
to facial recognition techniques?

01:01:58.725 --> 01:01:59.790
Nope, not at all.

01:01:59.790 --> 01:02:03.170
We don't use it and I
anticipated that question

01:02:03.170 --> 01:02:06.640
and we make sure that
we're not a part of any,

01:02:06.640 --> 01:02:09.230
BRC does not have facial recognition.

01:02:09.230 --> 01:02:11.420
Okay, I think every other question

01:02:11.420 --> 01:02:13.830
that I had for you today
was asked by councilor Wu.

01:02:13.830 --> 01:02:15.540
So I just thank you for
taking the time to be here

01:02:15.540 --> 01:02:18.100
and for supporting this, thank you.

01:02:18.100 --> 01:02:19.440
Thank you, and before I go,

01:02:19.440 --> 01:02:22.500
for the record, nothing
has changed in my opinion

01:02:22.500 --> 01:02:24.340
from four years ago,

01:02:24.340 --> 01:02:26.573
until this technology
is a hundred percent,

01:02:26.573 --> 01:02:28.803
I'm not interested in it.

01:02:29.640 --> 01:02:33.510
And even when it is a hundred percent,

01:02:33.510 --> 01:02:35.970
you've committed to a
conversation about it?

01:02:35.970 --> 01:02:38.000
Absolutely, we discussed that before.

01:02:38.000 --> 01:02:39.610
That you have.

01:02:39.610 --> 01:02:43.298
It's not something that
you can just implement.

01:02:43.298 --> 01:02:45.631
[crosstalk]

01:02:47.194 --> 01:02:51.813
It's important that we also get
the input from the community

01:02:53.136 --> 01:02:54.660
that we serve and work in partnership

01:02:56.575 --> 01:02:59.150
so we can of course have
a better quality of life.

01:02:59.150 --> 01:03:03.090
And hat's inclusive of everyone's
expectation of privacy.

01:03:03.090 --> 01:03:04.690
So before you go,

01:03:04.690 --> 01:03:09.690
I'm gonna do this one call out
the panelists that just spoke

01:03:10.040 --> 01:03:11.450
or to any city councilors.

01:03:11.450 --> 01:03:13.970
One question that you may
have for the commissioner

01:03:13.970 --> 01:03:16.433
that you need to ask,
do any of you have that?

01:03:17.880 --> 01:03:22.880
Do either Joy, My'Kel,
Karina, Kade, Erik, Joshua,

01:03:23.720 --> 01:03:25.010
or to the other city councilors.

01:03:25.010 --> 01:03:26.530
I'm trying to be mindful of his time

01:03:26.530 --> 01:03:28.733
but I also understand

01:03:28.733 --> 01:03:31.480
you guys also gave time
to be here today as well.

01:03:31.480 --> 01:03:35.236
And if you wanted to ask him
representing BPD a question.

01:03:35.236 --> 01:03:39.150
I see Julia Mejia has raised her hand,

01:03:39.150 --> 01:03:40.540
to the panelists though,

01:03:40.540 --> 01:03:42.383
who just spoke any questions?

01:03:43.240 --> 01:03:46.490
I'm gonna go now to my
colleagues to ask one question.

01:03:46.490 --> 01:03:48.688
So that allows for him to go.

01:03:48.688 --> 01:03:50.820
Okay, councilor Mejia

01:03:52.090 --> 01:03:56.140
Yes, I just wanted to quickly
thank commissioner Gross

01:03:56.140 --> 01:03:59.473
for your time and just
your steadfast leadership.

01:04:00.450 --> 01:04:03.670
But I do have just a quick
question before you go.

01:04:03.670 --> 01:04:05.110
I just need some clarity,

01:04:05.110 --> 01:04:07.190
is that you mentioned that
you hope to keep this hearing

01:04:07.190 --> 01:04:08.400
on the topic of the ordinance

01:04:08.400 --> 01:04:12.160
and find other ways to adjust
issues of police relations.

01:04:12.160 --> 01:04:14.560
So a lot of people draw the direct link

01:04:14.560 --> 01:04:16.770
between facial recognition

01:04:16.770 --> 01:04:18.160
and relationships with the community.

01:04:18.160 --> 01:04:19.373
Do you see that link?

01:04:20.590 --> 01:04:22.100
And can you talk about
how the police department

01:04:22.100 --> 01:04:23.875
sees that link?

01:04:23.875 --> 01:04:24.900
I'm just really curious about

01:04:24.900 --> 01:04:28.690
how do we build relationships
with the community

01:04:28.690 --> 01:04:31.120
while also thinking
about facial recognition?

01:04:31.120 --> 01:04:32.540
Like, how do you reconcile that?

01:04:32.540 --> 01:04:33.593
I can answer that,

01:04:35.020 --> 01:04:36.660
the information I was given before

01:04:36.660 --> 01:04:41.120
that we were going to
discuss many subjects.

01:04:41.120 --> 01:04:44.610
And so I thank you for
eliminating this one,

01:04:44.610 --> 01:04:47.260
but the only way you
increase relationships

01:04:47.260 --> 01:04:49.460
with the community is to have

01:04:49.460 --> 01:04:51.536
hold hard discussions like this one.

01:04:51.536 --> 01:04:56.010
You have to listen to the
people that you serve,

01:04:56.010 --> 01:04:58.593
because everyone throws around

01:04:58.593 --> 01:04:59.760
the moniker community policing.

01:04:59.760 --> 01:05:01.680
I believe that's become jaded.

01:05:01.680 --> 01:05:05.020
And so I've created a bureau
of community engagement

01:05:05.020 --> 01:05:07.480
so that we can have these discussions.

01:05:07.480 --> 01:05:09.610
And again, I don't forget my history.

01:05:09.610 --> 01:05:11.600
I haven't forgotten my history.

01:05:11.600 --> 01:05:15.673
I came on in 1983 and I've
gone through a lot of racism,

01:05:15.673 --> 01:05:20.000
was in a tough neighborhood growing up,

01:05:20.000 --> 01:05:21.700
and I didn't forget any of that.

01:05:21.700 --> 01:05:25.460
And as you alluded to earlier,
some of the city councilors,

01:05:25.460 --> 01:05:27.910
I'm always in the street
talking to people,

01:05:27.910 --> 01:05:32.080
I get a lot of criticism of
law enforcement in general,

01:05:32.080 --> 01:05:35.540
but I believe in if you
want change, be the change,

01:05:35.540 --> 01:05:37.610
you can only change with the people.

01:05:37.610 --> 01:05:42.610
So, I am looking forward
to further conversation

01:05:43.410 --> 01:05:47.171
and to listening to testimony
on how we can improve

01:05:47.171 --> 01:05:48.780
our community relations,

01:05:48.780 --> 01:05:53.570
especially not only throwing
the time civil unrest,

01:05:53.570 --> 01:05:56.240
but we're in the middle
of a pandemic as well.

01:05:56.240 --> 01:05:58.440
And so police departments

01:05:58.440 --> 01:06:01.474
should not be separated
from the community.

01:06:01.474 --> 01:06:04.850
You have to have empathy,
sympathy, care and respect.

01:06:04.850 --> 01:06:06.980
A lot of people have lost jobs,

01:06:06.980 --> 01:06:10.080
and we must keep in mind
about socioeconomics,

01:06:10.080 --> 01:06:14.410
fairness for employment.

01:06:14.410 --> 01:06:16.260
A lot of those things

01:06:16.260 --> 01:06:20.170
directly affect the
neighborhoods of color.

01:06:20.170 --> 01:06:22.520
And I'm glad that we are increasing

01:06:22.520 --> 01:06:24.320
our diversity in the communities.

01:06:24.320 --> 01:06:27.550
And we currently currently
have organizations in Boston

01:06:27.550 --> 01:06:29.550
that directly speaks to the people.

01:06:29.550 --> 01:06:32.330
The Latino Law Enforcement Organization,

01:06:32.330 --> 01:06:34.278
the Cabo Verde Police Associations,

01:06:34.278 --> 01:06:39.278
the Benevolent Asian Jade Society.

01:06:39.474 --> 01:06:42.766
Our department is increasing in diversity,

01:06:42.766 --> 01:06:44.810
and the benefit of that,

01:06:44.810 --> 01:06:47.250
the benefit of having representation

01:06:47.250 --> 01:06:49.620
from every neighborhood we serve,

01:06:49.620 --> 01:06:52.210
is that it will improve relationships.

01:06:52.210 --> 01:06:54.550
So again, that's why I'm looking forward

01:06:54.550 --> 01:06:57.389
to a working session and
my team is taking notes

01:06:57.389 --> 01:07:02.119
because everybody's everybody's
testimony is important.

01:07:02.119 --> 01:07:05.840
Trust me, people like you that worked hard

01:07:05.840 --> 01:07:06.810
for everyone's rights.

01:07:06.810 --> 01:07:07.710
I wouldn't be here

01:07:07.710 --> 01:07:10.340
as the first African-American
police commissioner,

01:07:10.340 --> 01:07:11.630
if we didn't have folks

01:07:11.630 --> 01:07:15.863
that exercise their
First Amendment Rights.

01:07:17.079 --> 01:07:17.980
Thank you, commissioner Gross,

01:07:17.980 --> 01:07:19.550
I have a clarifying question.

01:07:19.550 --> 01:07:22.020
And then I just wanted to note,

01:07:22.020 --> 01:07:24.680
this impacts the staying in.

01:07:24.680 --> 01:07:28.150
So for folks who,
commissioner Gross has alluded

01:07:28.150 --> 01:07:29.090
to a working session,

01:07:29.090 --> 01:07:31.720
just to give some clarification
for those watching,

01:07:31.720 --> 01:07:33.150
that is when we actually get down

01:07:33.150 --> 01:07:35.550
to the language of the ordinance

01:07:35.550 --> 01:07:38.190
and work down to the
comments is what I say

01:07:38.190 --> 01:07:39.798
and how to do that.

01:07:39.798 --> 01:07:41.200
And so what commissioner Gross is asking

01:07:41.200 --> 01:07:44.070
that we have that conversation
within the next 60 days,

01:07:44.070 --> 01:07:45.303
which I'm fine with doing that,

01:07:45.303 --> 01:07:47.410
I'll just check with the lead sponsors.

01:07:47.410 --> 01:07:49.790
I did wanna make sure I understood

01:07:49.790 --> 01:07:52.480
what in terms of timing is
going on with the contract,

01:07:52.480 --> 01:07:57.200
is BPD entering into a contract
that has this technology?

01:07:57.200 --> 01:07:58.530
There was a timing issue

01:07:58.530 --> 01:08:01.790
that I thought was warranting this hearing

01:08:01.790 --> 01:08:02.740
happening very fast.

01:08:02.740 --> 01:08:04.980
Maybe the lead sponsors could
also answer this question.

01:08:04.980 --> 01:08:06.360
I was confused,

01:08:06.360 --> 01:08:09.640
if someone could explain what was the...

01:08:09.640 --> 01:08:12.100
there's a sense of urgency
that I felt that I was meeting

01:08:12.100 --> 01:08:13.660
and I'm happy to meet it.

01:08:13.660 --> 01:08:17.347
Just if someone either, I
saw you Kade, you nodded.

01:08:17.347 --> 01:08:21.410
Let me just figure out what
this contract issue is Kade.

01:08:21.410 --> 01:08:24.830
Sure councilor, I'd be
happy to address that.

01:08:24.830 --> 01:08:27.660
We obtained public records
from the city a while back

01:08:27.660 --> 01:08:29.710
showing that the Boston Police Department

01:08:31.154 --> 01:08:32.766
has a contract with a
company called BriefCam

01:08:32.766 --> 01:08:34.510
that expired on May 14th.

01:08:37.478 --> 01:08:41.390
And the contract was for version
4.3 of BriefCam software,

01:08:41.390 --> 01:08:44.630
which did not include facial
surveillance algorithms.

01:08:44.630 --> 01:08:47.210
The current version of
BriefCam's technology

01:08:47.210 --> 01:08:50.300
does include facial
surveillance algorithms.

01:08:50.300 --> 01:08:53.130
And so one of the reasons
that the councilors

01:08:53.130 --> 01:08:55.510
and the advocacy groups
behind this measure

01:08:55.510 --> 01:08:59.374
were urging you chair
to schedule this quickly

01:08:59.374 --> 01:09:01.230
is so that we could pass this ban fast

01:09:01.230 --> 01:09:02.450
to ensure that the city

01:09:02.450 --> 01:09:06.223
does not enter into a contract
to upgrade that technology.

01:09:07.480 --> 01:09:09.280
Thank you, commissioner Gross,

01:09:09.280 --> 01:09:10.840
where are we on this contract?

01:09:10.840 --> 01:09:11.850
Yep and thank you.

01:09:11.850 --> 01:09:13.980
That's exactly what I was gonna comment.

01:09:13.980 --> 01:09:15.580
The older version of BriefCam

01:09:15.580 --> 01:09:17.587
did not have facial recognition

01:09:17.587 --> 01:09:20.690
and I believe that the newer version does.

01:09:20.690 --> 01:09:25.620
BriefCam works on the old version

01:09:25.620 --> 01:09:27.960
on condensing objects, cars,

01:09:27.960 --> 01:09:31.200
but I would definitely
check on that contract

01:09:31.200 --> 01:09:34.300
because I don't want any technology

01:09:34.300 --> 01:09:36.280
that has facial recognition

01:09:37.937 --> 01:09:40.170
and that's exactly what
we were gonna check on

01:09:40.170 --> 01:09:45.170
and so my answer right
now is no at this point.

01:09:46.654 --> 01:09:50.040
I've just read into testimony,

01:09:50.040 --> 01:09:55.000
if we obtain technology such as that,

01:09:55.000 --> 01:09:57.510
I should be speaking to all of you

01:09:57.510 --> 01:09:59.883
and to what that entails,

01:10:04.595 --> 01:10:08.368
if we have BriefCam and
it has facial recognition

01:10:08.368 --> 01:10:10.276
[indistinct] that allows
for facial recognition, no.

01:10:10.276 --> 01:10:12.110
And if someone did, if we
did go into a contract,

01:10:12.110 --> 01:10:14.913
would I have the ability to show you

01:10:14.913 --> 01:10:18.970
that that portion that does
have facial recognition,

01:10:18.970 --> 01:10:20.830
that that can be censored?

01:10:20.830 --> 01:10:24.430
That that is not, excuse
me, poor choice of words

01:10:24.430 --> 01:10:26.350
that that can be excluded.

01:10:26.350 --> 01:10:29.340
And so I'm not comfortable
with that contract

01:10:29.340 --> 01:10:31.000
until I know more about it.

01:10:31.000 --> 01:10:33.860
I don't want any part
of facial recognition.

01:10:33.860 --> 01:10:36.815
But as I read into testimony,

01:10:36.815 --> 01:10:39.912
all the technology
that's going forward now

01:10:39.912 --> 01:10:41.690
in many fields is like,

01:10:41.690 --> 01:10:43.320
hey we have facial recognition

01:10:43.320 --> 01:10:45.650
and I'm like not comfortable with that.

01:10:45.650 --> 01:10:50.430
And so BriefCam, yeah the old version,

01:10:50.430 --> 01:10:52.530
we hardly ever used it.

01:10:52.530 --> 01:10:54.850
And there is discussion on the new version

01:10:54.850 --> 01:10:56.589
and I'm not comfortable

01:10:56.589 --> 01:10:58.889
with the facial recognition
component of that.

01:11:00.340 --> 01:11:01.210
Thank you very much.

01:11:01.210 --> 01:11:04.050
And thank you very much
Kade for the background

01:11:04.050 --> 01:11:07.010
and understanding both of
you, and understanding.

01:11:07.010 --> 01:11:09.640
I felt a sense to move
fast and I'm moving fast,

01:11:09.640 --> 01:11:12.320
but I was trying to make
sure I understood what for.

01:11:12.320 --> 01:11:14.140
I really do have to go.

01:11:14.140 --> 01:11:15.330
Yes, thank you very much.

01:11:15.330 --> 01:11:18.340
Thank you all for your input.

01:11:18.340 --> 01:11:21.190
Will there someone be taking
notes or is there someone,

01:11:23.315 --> 01:11:25.080
I guess Neil from the mayor's
office will be taking notes.

01:11:25.080 --> 01:11:28.000
And I have my own team
taking notes right now.

01:11:28.000 --> 01:11:30.072
Excellent, thank you very much.

01:11:30.072 --> 01:11:32.230
Thank you for your testimony.

01:11:32.230 --> 01:11:34.480
If it weren't for
advocates, such as everyone

01:11:34.480 --> 01:11:39.480
on this Zoom call, I wouldn't
be here in this capacity.

01:11:39.920 --> 01:11:40.783
So thank you.

01:11:41.937 --> 01:11:43.560
Thank you very much commissioner.

01:11:43.560 --> 01:11:46.517
Thank you everyone take care.

01:11:46.517 --> 01:11:48.250
Okay, thank you very much.

01:11:48.250 --> 01:11:52.316
And so we have a still a
robust conversation to have

01:11:52.316 --> 01:11:56.560
amongst ourselves about the
language, about the goals,

01:11:56.560 --> 01:11:59.710
whether it goes far enough,
if anyone opposes this ban,

01:11:59.710 --> 01:12:02.120
and I want people to understand

01:12:02.120 --> 01:12:04.810
if there is someone who
disagrees with a lot of us,

01:12:04.810 --> 01:12:06.810
this will be a respectful conversation

01:12:06.810 --> 01:12:09.340
and that person will be
welcome to have their opinion

01:12:09.340 --> 01:12:11.820
and express it as every single one of us

01:12:11.820 --> 01:12:12.820
has been able to do.

01:12:13.655 --> 01:12:14.670
So I'm gonna continue now,

01:12:14.670 --> 01:12:17.493
there's a list of folks
who have signed up to speak

01:12:17.493 --> 01:12:19.890
and I'm gonna continue down that list

01:12:19.890 --> 01:12:23.570
and keep them to no
more than three minutes

01:12:24.470 --> 01:12:26.013
and then we're gonna open up.

01:12:26.013 --> 01:12:28.371
Oh, I'm so sorry, I apologize.

01:12:28.371 --> 01:12:31.294
Before I go down a list,
I know my councilor,

01:12:31.294 --> 01:12:33.730
my colleagues also may
have questions or concerns

01:12:33.730 --> 01:12:36.380
or may wanna voice certain
things about the legislation.

01:12:36.380 --> 01:12:37.794
And I apologize.

01:12:37.794 --> 01:12:38.793
[Lydia giggles]

01:12:38.793 --> 01:12:40.970
So I'm just so amped to get
to the public testimony.

01:12:40.970 --> 01:12:43.310
So I'm gonna go ahead and
go in order of arrival,

01:12:43.310 --> 01:12:45.450
the two lead sponsors have
asked questions already

01:12:45.450 --> 01:12:47.040
of the commissioner.

01:12:47.040 --> 01:12:49.580
Did they have the councilor
Wu or councilor Arroyo

01:12:49.580 --> 01:12:52.980
have any questions for the
panelists that just spoke?

01:12:52.980 --> 01:12:55.383
If not, I'll move on
to my other colleagues.

01:12:56.860 --> 01:12:59.069
MICHELLE: I'm happy to
defer to colleagues,

01:12:59.069 --> 01:12:59.902
thank you madam chair.

01:12:59.902 --> 01:13:01.903
Very well, councilor Arroyo.

01:13:01.903 --> 01:13:03.923
The only question I would have,

01:13:03.923 --> 01:13:06.800
which is more to, I
think Kade from the ACLU,

01:13:06.800 --> 01:13:09.260
is whether or not she has any idea

01:13:09.260 --> 01:13:10.410
where we are on that contract.

01:13:10.410 --> 01:13:13.010
From what I heard from commissioner Gross,

01:13:13.010 --> 01:13:15.320
it sounded like he couldn't confirm

01:13:15.320 --> 01:13:16.940
the timeline for that contract,

01:13:16.940 --> 01:13:18.660
whether or not it's been
signed or not signed,

01:13:18.660 --> 01:13:20.380
what's going on with that contract.

01:13:20.380 --> 01:13:22.824
Does any panelists here
have any information

01:13:22.824 --> 01:13:24.910
on whether or not that contract is,

01:13:24.910 --> 01:13:26.720
what the status of that is?

01:13:26.720 --> 01:13:28.762
Thanks for the question, councilor Arroyo.

01:13:28.762 --> 01:13:29.960
Regrettably no.

01:13:29.960 --> 01:13:32.400
We filed a public records request

01:13:32.400 --> 01:13:34.840
with the Boston Police
Department on May 14th,

01:13:34.840 --> 01:13:36.400
so that was about a month ago,

01:13:36.400 --> 01:13:38.380
asking just for one simple document

01:13:38.380 --> 01:13:40.860
for the existing contract

01:13:40.860 --> 01:13:43.400
that the Boston Police
Department has with BriefCam

01:13:43.400 --> 01:13:44.990
and they haven't sent it to us yet.

01:13:44.990 --> 01:13:49.050
So, and we've prided them
multiple times about it,

01:13:49.050 --> 01:13:51.150
including on Friday saying,

01:13:51.150 --> 01:13:51.983
it would be a real shame

01:13:51.983 --> 01:13:54.200
if we had to go to this hearing on Tuesday

01:13:54.200 --> 01:13:57.130
without this information and
we still haven't received it,

01:13:57.130 --> 01:13:58.283
so we do not.

01:13:59.384 --> 01:14:00.563
Thank you.

01:14:01.758 --> 01:14:04.650
That all councilor Arroyo?

01:14:04.650 --> 01:14:06.640
Very well, councilor Breadon.

01:14:10.950 --> 01:14:12.540
Thank you.

01:14:12.540 --> 01:14:14.610
This has been very informative,

01:14:14.610 --> 01:14:18.460
very good questions from my colleagues.

01:14:18.460 --> 01:14:23.460
One question I had was, other
agencies, federal agencies,

01:14:24.270 --> 01:14:26.150
are they using facial recognition?

01:14:26.150 --> 01:14:29.640
And if they are they
sharing that information

01:14:29.640 --> 01:14:30.990
with our police department?

01:14:33.150 --> 01:14:35.860
Does anyone know the
answer to that question?

01:14:35.860 --> 01:14:39.050
I can speak to that, Joy
Buolomwini if you're still on,

01:14:39.050 --> 01:14:41.289
you may wanna speak to some of those too.

01:14:41.289 --> 01:14:46.289
So the ACLU we nationwide have
been filing FOIAR requests,

01:14:47.060 --> 01:14:49.360
Freedom of Information Act Requests

01:14:49.360 --> 01:14:51.380
with various federal agencies

01:14:51.380 --> 01:14:53.430
to learn about how the federal government

01:14:55.015 --> 01:14:56.510
is using this technology
and how they're sharing

01:14:57.873 --> 01:14:59.193
information derived from the technology,

01:14:59.193 --> 01:15:00.858
with state and local law enforcement.

01:15:00.858 --> 01:15:03.180
We know for example, that
in the city of Boston,

01:15:03.180 --> 01:15:06.020
the Boston Police Department works closely

01:15:06.020 --> 01:15:07.060
not only with I.C.E,

01:15:07.060 --> 01:15:09.260
which has been the subject
of much consternation

01:15:09.260 --> 01:15:11.470
and debate before this body,

01:15:11.470 --> 01:15:12.900
but also with the FBI,

01:15:12.900 --> 01:15:15.996
through something called the
Joint Terrorism Task Force.

01:15:15.996 --> 01:15:17.210
The Boston Police Department

01:15:17.210 --> 01:15:21.270
actually has detectives
assigned to that JTTF unit,

01:15:21.270 --> 01:15:23.140
who act as federal agents.

01:15:23.140 --> 01:15:25.340
So one concern that we have is that

01:15:25.340 --> 01:15:27.220
even if the city of Boston banned

01:15:27.220 --> 01:15:29.995
face surveillance technology
for city employees,

01:15:29.995 --> 01:15:32.860
certainly it would be
the case that the FBI

01:15:32.860 --> 01:15:34.200
and other federal agencies

01:15:34.200 --> 01:15:36.500
would be able to continue
to use this technology

01:15:36.500 --> 01:15:40.150
and likely to share
information that comes from it

01:15:40.150 --> 01:15:42.218
with the Boston Police Department
and other city agencies.

01:15:42.218 --> 01:15:45.670
Unfortunately, there's
nothing we can do about that

01:15:45.670 --> 01:15:46.839
at the city level,

01:15:46.839 --> 01:15:48.690
which is why the ACLU

01:15:48.690 --> 01:15:50.990
is also working with partners in congress

01:15:50.990 --> 01:15:53.873
to try to address this level
at the federal level as well.

01:15:56.210 --> 01:15:57.640
Thank you, that answered my question

01:15:57.640 --> 01:16:00.898
and thank you for your work
on this very important issue.

01:16:00.898 --> 01:16:04.570
Councilor, madam chair
that's all the questions

01:16:04.570 --> 01:16:05.403
I have for now.

01:16:06.270 --> 01:16:08.280
Thank you for very much, councilor Bok.

01:16:08.280 --> 01:16:10.643
So, Mejia.

01:16:12.357 --> 01:16:14.320
I'm so sorry, councilor Bok.

01:16:14.320 --> 01:16:16.133
Thank you councilor Breadon.

01:16:16.133 --> 01:16:19.230
Next is councilor Bok, I apologize.

01:16:19.230 --> 01:16:21.959
Thank you, thanks councilor Edwards.

01:16:21.959 --> 01:16:24.797
My question was actually
just, it's for the panelists.

01:16:24.797 --> 01:16:27.253
Whoever wants to jump in,

01:16:27.253 --> 01:16:29.590
the police commissioner
was making a distinction

01:16:29.590 --> 01:16:32.770
between facial surveillance
and facial recognition systems

01:16:32.770 --> 01:16:35.760
and what we might be banning or not.

01:16:35.760 --> 01:16:37.412
And I'm just wondering,

01:16:37.412 --> 01:16:39.140
I don't know the literature
in this world well enough

01:16:39.140 --> 01:16:41.915
to know if that sort of a
strong existing distinction,

01:16:41.915 --> 01:16:44.580
whether you think this piece
of legislation in front of us

01:16:44.580 --> 01:16:45.640
bans one or the other,

01:16:45.640 --> 01:16:48.598
whether you think we should
be making that distinction,

01:16:48.598 --> 01:16:51.400
I'd just be curious for anybody
to weigh in on that front.

01:16:51.400 --> 01:16:55.020
Got it, so when we hear the
term facial recognition,

01:16:55.020 --> 01:16:58.370
oftentimes what it
means it's not so clear.

01:16:58.370 --> 01:17:00.600
And so with the way the
current bill is written,

01:17:00.600 --> 01:17:03.350
it actually covers a wide range

01:17:03.350 --> 01:17:06.895
of different kinds of facial
recognition technologies.

01:17:06.895 --> 01:17:09.600
And I say technologies plural

01:17:09.600 --> 01:17:12.280
to emphasize we're talking
about different things.

01:17:12.280 --> 01:17:15.280
So for example, you have face recognition,

01:17:15.280 --> 01:17:18.210
which is about identifying
a unique individual.

01:17:18.210 --> 01:17:20.720
So when we're talking
about face surveillance,

01:17:20.720 --> 01:17:22.210
that is the issue.

01:17:22.210 --> 01:17:25.140
But you can also have facial analysis,

01:17:25.140 --> 01:17:27.050
that's guessing somebody's gender

01:17:27.050 --> 01:17:29.270
or somebodies age or other systems

01:17:29.270 --> 01:17:32.900
that might try to infer your
sexuality or your religion.

01:17:32.900 --> 01:17:34.860
So you can still discriminate

01:17:34.860 --> 01:17:38.380
even if it's not
technically face recognition

01:17:38.380 --> 01:17:39.850
in the technical sense.

01:17:39.850 --> 01:17:42.740
So, it's important to have
a really broad definition.

01:17:42.740 --> 01:17:44.400
You also have face detection.

01:17:44.400 --> 01:17:46.730
So if you think about weapon systems

01:17:46.730 --> 01:17:49.260
where you're just detecting
the presence of a face

01:17:49.260 --> 01:17:51.880
without saying a specific individual

01:17:51.880 --> 01:17:53.690
that can still be problematic.

01:17:53.690 --> 01:17:55.750
You also have companies like Face Suction

01:17:55.750 --> 01:17:58.180
that say, we can infer a criminality

01:17:58.180 --> 01:18:00.030
just by looking at your face,

01:18:00.030 --> 01:18:04.480
your potential to be a pedophile,
a murderer, a terrorist.

01:18:04.480 --> 01:18:07.010
And these are the kinds of systems

01:18:07.010 --> 01:18:09.870
that companies are attempting
to sell law enforcement.

01:18:09.870 --> 01:18:12.570
So it's crucial that any legislation

01:18:12.570 --> 01:18:13.910
that is being written,

01:18:13.910 --> 01:18:16.260
has a sufficiently broad definition

01:18:16.260 --> 01:18:21.260
of a wide range of facial
recognition technologies, right?

01:18:21.450 --> 01:18:24.673
With the plural so that
you don't get a loophole,

01:18:26.281 --> 01:18:27.740
which says, oh, we're
doing face identification

01:18:27.740 --> 01:18:31.100
or face verification, which
falls under recognition.

01:18:31.100 --> 01:18:33.910
So everything we're doing
over here doesn't matter,

01:18:33.910 --> 01:18:34.900
but it does.

01:18:34.900 --> 01:18:36.650
So thank you so much for that question

01:18:36.650 --> 01:18:38.923
because this is an
important clarification.

01:18:42.090 --> 01:18:44.003
Great, thanks so much.

01:18:44.003 --> 01:18:45.603
Was there anybody else who
wanted to comment on that front?

01:18:46.440 --> 01:18:48.070
No, okay, great.

01:18:48.070 --> 01:18:50.080
Thank you, that was really helpful Joy.

01:18:50.080 --> 01:18:51.880
Madam chair, I'm mindful
of the public testimony,

01:18:51.880 --> 01:18:53.253
so that'll be it for me.

01:18:54.699 --> 01:18:55.570
Thank you very much councilor Bok,

01:18:55.570 --> 01:18:56.683
councilor Mejia.

01:18:58.498 --> 01:19:00.942
Thank you again to the panelists

01:19:00.942 --> 01:19:04.480
for educating us beforehand

01:19:04.480 --> 01:19:07.897
and always sharing all of
this amazing information

01:19:07.897 --> 01:19:11.664
and data and research that
informs our thinking every day.

01:19:11.664 --> 01:19:14.220
I am just curious

01:19:14.220 --> 01:19:18.720
and at the same time a little bit worried

01:19:18.720 --> 01:19:23.280
about, just kind of like,

01:19:23.280 --> 01:19:27.684
how we can prevent this
from ever passing ever.

01:19:27.684 --> 01:19:30.720
Because it seems to me that

01:19:30.720 --> 01:19:33.460
the way it's been positioned
is that it's the right now,

01:19:33.460 --> 01:19:37.630
because it's not accurate,

01:19:37.630 --> 01:19:39.520
but I'm just curious what happened

01:19:39.520 --> 01:19:44.520
if you've seen other cities
or just even around the world

01:19:44.990 --> 01:19:46.400
or any other incidences

01:19:46.400 --> 01:19:51.083
where this has kind of slipped
in the radar and has passed.

01:19:53.254 --> 01:19:54.930
I don't know if I'm making
any sense here but...

01:19:54.930 --> 01:19:58.440
Basically the bottom line is
what I'm trying to understand

01:19:58.440 --> 01:20:00.780
is that here we are standing firm

01:20:00.780 --> 01:20:03.560
and banning facial recognition,

01:20:03.560 --> 01:20:06.881
from what I understand at this point,

01:20:06.881 --> 01:20:10.780
our commissioner is in agreement,

01:20:10.780 --> 01:20:13.910
because of the issue of accuracy, right?

01:20:13.910 --> 01:20:16.130
How can we get ahead of this situation

01:20:16.130 --> 01:20:20.970
in a way that we can right this ordinance

01:20:20.970 --> 01:20:25.578
to ensure that regardless of
whether or not it is accurate,

01:20:25.578 --> 01:20:26.960
that we can still protect our residents.

01:20:26.960 --> 01:20:28.670
Do you get what I'm trying to say?

01:20:28.670 --> 01:20:31.155
I do councilor Mejia
and thank you for that.

01:20:31.155 --> 01:20:33.540
I can address that quickly.

01:20:33.540 --> 01:20:37.711
The council can't bind
future city councils, right?

01:20:37.711 --> 01:20:40.300
So I agree with you.

01:20:40.300 --> 01:20:42.770
I think that this technology is dangerous,

01:20:42.770 --> 01:20:44.400
whether it works or it doesn't.

01:20:44.400 --> 01:20:46.530
And I think that's why the city of Boston

01:20:46.530 --> 01:20:50.090
ought to take the step to
ban its use in government.

01:20:50.090 --> 01:20:52.090
I can promise you that as advocates,

01:20:52.090 --> 01:20:53.900
we will show up to ensure

01:20:53.900 --> 01:20:56.677
that these protections
persist in the city of Boston,

01:20:56.677 --> 01:20:59.090
as long as I'm alive. [Kade laughs]

01:20:59.090 --> 01:21:02.790
And I think that's true of many
of my friends and colleagues

01:21:02.790 --> 01:21:04.797
in the advocacy space.

01:21:04.797 --> 01:21:07.430
But some cities, some states

01:21:07.430 --> 01:21:08.650
have considered approaches of

01:21:08.650 --> 01:21:10.400
for example passing a moratorium

01:21:10.400 --> 01:21:12.870
that expires after a few years,

01:21:12.870 --> 01:21:14.790
we did not choose that route here,

01:21:14.790 --> 01:21:17.180
in fact because of our concerns

01:21:17.180 --> 01:21:19.236
that I think are identical to yours.

01:21:19.236 --> 01:21:22.690
It's our view that we should
never wanna live in a society

01:21:22.690 --> 01:21:24.360
where the government can track us

01:21:25.242 --> 01:21:26.815
through these surveillance cameras

01:21:26.815 --> 01:21:29.490
by our face wherever we go
or automatically get alerts,

01:21:29.490 --> 01:21:31.310
just because I happened
to walk past the camera

01:21:31.310 --> 01:21:32.200
in a certain neighborhood.

01:21:32.200 --> 01:21:33.480
That's a kind of surveillance

01:21:33.480 --> 01:21:36.180
that should never exist in a free society.

01:21:36.180 --> 01:21:38.630
So we agree that it should
be permanently banned.

01:21:39.630 --> 01:21:40.463
Thank you for that.

01:21:40.463 --> 01:21:43.710
And then the other
question that I have is,

01:21:43.710 --> 01:21:45.797
I know that, where the city council

01:21:45.797 --> 01:21:47.960
and all of the jurisdiction is all things

01:21:47.960 --> 01:21:49.570
that deal with the city,

01:21:49.570 --> 01:21:54.490
but I'm just wondering
what if any examples

01:21:54.490 --> 01:21:55.540
have you heard of other,

01:21:55.540 --> 01:21:57.730
like maybe within the private sector

01:21:57.730 --> 01:22:02.030
that are utilizing or considering
to utilize this as a form?

01:22:02.030 --> 01:22:04.600
Is there anything, any
traction or anything

01:22:04.600 --> 01:22:05.433
that we need to be mindful of?

01:22:05.433 --> 01:22:07.910
Happening outside of city
government, if you will.

01:22:10.580 --> 01:22:11.560
Joy, do you wanna speak

01:22:11.560 --> 01:22:14.300
to some of the commercial applications?

01:22:14.300 --> 01:22:17.060
Sure, I'm so glad you're
asking this question

01:22:17.060 --> 01:22:19.030
because facial recognition technologies

01:22:19.030 --> 01:22:22.990
broadly speaking are not
just in the government realm.

01:22:22.990 --> 01:22:27.010
So right now, especially
with the COVID pandemic,

01:22:27.010 --> 01:22:30.290
you're starting to see
more people make proposals

01:22:30.290 --> 01:22:33.060
of using facial recognition
technologies in different ways.

01:22:33.060 --> 01:22:35.390
Some that I've seen start to surface are,

01:22:35.390 --> 01:22:39.770
can we use facial recognition
for contactless payments?

01:22:39.770 --> 01:22:42.895
So your face becomes what you pay with.

01:22:42.895 --> 01:22:45.890
You also have the case

01:22:45.890 --> 01:22:48.900
of using facial analysis in employment.

01:22:48.900 --> 01:22:50.400
So there's a company HireVue

01:22:50.400 --> 01:22:53.630
that says we will analyze
your facial movements

01:22:53.630 --> 01:22:56.920
and use that to inform hiring decisions.

01:22:56.920 --> 01:23:00.380
And guess what we train on
the current top performers.

01:23:00.380 --> 01:23:03.930
So the biases that are already
there can be propagated

01:23:03.930 --> 01:23:06.380
and you actually might
purchase that technology

01:23:06.380 --> 01:23:09.650
thinking you're trying to remove bias.

01:23:09.650 --> 01:23:12.750
And so there are many ways
in which these technologies

01:23:12.750 --> 01:23:16.700
might be presented with good intent,

01:23:16.700 --> 01:23:18.840
but when you look at the ways in which

01:23:18.840 --> 01:23:21.470
it actually manifests, there are harms

01:23:21.470 --> 01:23:24.400
and oftentimes harms that
disproportionately fall

01:23:24.400 --> 01:23:25.960
on a marginalized group.

01:23:25.960 --> 01:23:27.260
Even in the healthcare system.

01:23:27.260 --> 01:23:29.530
I was reading research earlier

01:23:29.530 --> 01:23:31.110
that was talking about ableism

01:23:31.110 --> 01:23:33.150
when it comes to using some kinds of

01:23:33.150 --> 01:23:35.080
facial analysis systems

01:23:35.080 --> 01:23:37.190
within the healthcare context,

01:23:37.190 --> 01:23:38.800
where it's not working as well

01:23:38.800 --> 01:23:40.900
for older adults with dementia.

01:23:40.900 --> 01:23:43.020
So the promises of these technologies

01:23:43.020 --> 01:23:45.590
really have to be backed
up with the claims.

01:23:45.590 --> 01:23:49.680
And I think the council can
actually go further by saying,

01:23:49.680 --> 01:23:51.420
we're not only just talking about

01:23:51.420 --> 01:23:54.240
government use of facial
recognition technologies,

01:23:54.240 --> 01:23:55.770
but if these technologies

01:23:55.770 --> 01:23:58.360
impact someone's life in
a material way, right?

01:23:58.360 --> 01:24:00.820
So we're talking about
economic opportunity.

01:24:00.820 --> 01:24:02.500
We're talking about healthcare,

01:24:02.500 --> 01:24:04.400
that there needs to be oversight

01:24:04.400 --> 01:24:08.170
or clear restrictions depending
on the type of application,

01:24:08.170 --> 01:24:10.870
but the precautionary
principle press pause,

01:24:10.870 --> 01:24:14.510
make sense when this technology
is nowhere near there.

01:24:14.510 --> 01:24:15.343
Thank you.

01:24:15.343 --> 01:24:17.016
For that and I'm not
sure if I got the Jabil,

01:24:17.016 --> 01:24:18.557
but I do have one more,

01:24:18.557 --> 01:24:20.433
You got the, you got the...

01:24:20.433 --> 01:24:21.954
[crosstalk]

01:24:21.954 --> 01:24:25.553
But I'll wait.

01:24:25.553 --> 01:24:29.563
Sorry, thank you so much
to you both, thank you.

01:24:32.100 --> 01:24:33.150
Councilor Flaherty.

01:24:39.417 --> 01:24:40.620
Okay, councilor Campbell said

01:24:40.620 --> 01:24:43.693
she was having some spotty
issues with her internet.

01:24:45.023 --> 01:24:45.856
So if she's not here,

01:24:45.856 --> 01:24:49.310
I'm gonna go ahead and
go to councilor O'Malley

01:24:49.310 --> 01:24:51.920
who I'm not sure he's still on.

01:24:51.920 --> 01:24:53.740
I'm here madam chair.

01:24:53.740 --> 01:24:55.090
There you are, councilor O'Malley.

01:24:55.090 --> 01:24:55.923
Thank you.

01:24:55.923 --> 01:24:57.855
Yeah, I will be brief because
I think it's important

01:24:57.855 --> 01:24:59.083
to get to the public testimony,

01:24:59.083 --> 01:25:00.010
but it seems to me that this sounds

01:25:00.010 --> 01:25:03.820
like a very productive
government operations hearing.

01:25:03.820 --> 01:25:06.340
It sounds to me that obviously

01:25:06.340 --> 01:25:08.610
there's a lot of support across the board

01:25:08.610 --> 01:25:10.640
and it looks as though the commissioners

01:25:10.640 --> 01:25:12.470
asking for one more working session,

01:25:12.470 --> 01:25:13.440
which seems to make sense

01:25:13.440 --> 01:25:15.360
and his comments were very positive.

01:25:15.360 --> 01:25:17.218
So I think this is a good thing.

01:25:17.218 --> 01:25:18.100
So thank you to the advocates.

01:25:18.100 --> 01:25:19.480
Thank you to my colleagues,

01:25:19.480 --> 01:25:20.750
particularly the lead sponsors

01:25:20.750 --> 01:25:23.260
and the commissioner for his
participation this afternoon.

01:25:23.260 --> 01:25:24.930
And thank you for all the folks

01:25:24.930 --> 01:25:26.250
whom we will hear from shortly.

01:25:26.250 --> 01:25:27.940
That's all I've got.

01:25:27.940 --> 01:25:30.133
Thank you, councilor Essaibi George.

01:25:31.160 --> 01:25:32.403
Thank you madam chair.

01:25:32.403 --> 01:25:33.554
And I do apologize for earlier,

01:25:33.554 --> 01:25:38.554
taking a call and unmuting myself somehow.

01:25:39.460 --> 01:25:40.293
I apologize for that.

01:25:40.293 --> 01:25:42.410
I hope I didn't say anything inappropriate

01:25:42.410 --> 01:25:44.304
or share any certain secrets.

01:25:44.304 --> 01:25:46.507
Thank you to the advocates

01:25:46.507 --> 01:25:48.610
and to the commissioner
for being here today.

01:25:48.610 --> 01:25:50.655
And thank you to the advocates

01:25:50.655 --> 01:25:53.550
who have met with me over
the last a few months ago,

01:25:53.550 --> 01:25:55.555
over a period of a few months,

01:25:55.555 --> 01:25:58.430
just really learned a lot
through our times together,

01:25:58.430 --> 01:26:01.540
especially from the younger folks.

01:26:01.540 --> 01:26:02.973
I am interested in some,

01:26:04.203 --> 01:26:05.036
if there is any information

01:26:05.036 --> 01:26:06.870
that the commissioner
is no longer with us.

01:26:06.870 --> 01:26:10.804
So perhaps I'll just forward
this question to him, myself.

01:26:10.804 --> 01:26:15.804
But my question is around
the FBI's evidence standards

01:26:17.282 --> 01:26:19.640
around facial recognition technology.

01:26:19.640 --> 01:26:21.840
I wonder if they've released that.

01:26:21.840 --> 01:26:25.581
And then through the chair to the makers,

01:26:25.581 --> 01:26:30.267
we had some questions
around section B and two,

01:26:32.381 --> 01:26:33.837
and perhaps we can discuss
this in the working sessional,

01:26:35.184 --> 01:26:36.804
or I'll send this to you ahead of time,

01:26:36.804 --> 01:26:41.804
but it does talk about
section B part two reads,

01:26:42.377 --> 01:26:45.790
"Nothing in B or one shall prohibit Boston

01:26:46.822 --> 01:26:47.970
or any Boston official
from using evidence related

01:26:47.970 --> 01:26:50.460
to the investigation of a specific crime

01:26:50.460 --> 01:26:51.670
that may have been generated

01:26:51.670 --> 01:26:53.980
from face surveillance systems."

01:26:53.980 --> 01:26:56.170
So we're just wondering
what types of evidence

01:26:56.170 --> 01:26:57.750
are we allowing from here

01:26:57.750 --> 01:27:00.560
and what situations are
we trying to accommodate.

01:27:00.560 --> 01:27:04.450
Just the specific question
that we came up with

01:27:04.450 --> 01:27:06.190
as an office, looking through that.

01:27:06.190 --> 01:27:08.680
So I'll share that with the
makers of this ordinance

01:27:08.680 --> 01:27:10.270
to understand that a little bit better.

01:27:10.270 --> 01:27:12.120
But if any of the panels have information

01:27:12.120 --> 01:27:15.580
on the FBI standards regarding,

01:27:15.580 --> 01:27:17.760
if they've shared their standards.

01:27:17.760 --> 01:27:21.461
That is my question for this time.

01:27:21.461 --> 01:27:22.599
Thank you ma'am chair.

01:27:22.599 --> 01:27:23.603
I can answer that quickly

01:27:23.603 --> 01:27:24.540
and then Joy may also have an answer.

01:27:24.540 --> 01:27:27.010
But one of the issues here

01:27:27.010 --> 01:27:29.700
is that police departments
across the country

01:27:29.700 --> 01:27:32.410
have been using facial
recognition to identify people

01:27:32.410 --> 01:27:35.700
in criminal investigations
for decades now actually,

01:27:35.700 --> 01:27:38.160
and then not disclosing that information

01:27:38.160 --> 01:27:41.350
to criminal defendants, which
is a due process violation.

01:27:41.350 --> 01:27:43.470
And it's a serious problem

01:27:43.470 --> 01:27:46.840
in terms of the integrity of
our criminal justice process

01:27:46.840 --> 01:27:50.070
in the courts and defendant's
rights to a fair trial.

01:27:50.070 --> 01:27:53.440
So the FBI standards
that you're referencing

01:27:53.440 --> 01:27:56.240
one of the reasons, at least
as far as we understand it

01:27:56.240 --> 01:27:58.280
and I don't work for
the police department,

01:27:58.280 --> 01:28:01.354
but one of the reasons as
far as we understand it,

01:28:01.354 --> 01:28:03.680
that police departments have
not been disclosing information

01:28:03.680 --> 01:28:06.130
about these searches
to criminal defendants,

01:28:06.130 --> 01:28:10.090
is that there is no nationally
agreed upon forensic standard

01:28:10.090 --> 01:28:12.980
for the use of facial
recognition technology

01:28:12.980 --> 01:28:14.570
in criminal investigations.

01:28:14.570 --> 01:28:17.540
And so my understanding is,

01:28:17.540 --> 01:28:19.520
police departments and prosecutors fear

01:28:19.520 --> 01:28:21.980
that if they were to disclose to courts

01:28:21.980 --> 01:28:22.950
and criminal defendants,

01:28:22.950 --> 01:28:25.380
that this technology was
used to identify people

01:28:25.380 --> 01:28:27.040
in specific investigations,

01:28:27.040 --> 01:28:29.878
that those cases would basically
get thrown out of court

01:28:29.878 --> 01:28:34.878
because the people who
performed the analysis

01:28:35.730 --> 01:28:37.760
would not really be able to testify

01:28:37.760 --> 01:28:41.170
to their training under any
agreed upon national standard

01:28:41.170 --> 01:28:43.390
for evaluating facial recognition results

01:28:43.390 --> 01:28:45.980
or using the technology more generally.

01:28:45.980 --> 01:28:48.450
I can't answer your other
question about that exemption.

01:28:48.450 --> 01:28:51.576
It is meant to address
basically wanted posters,

01:28:51.576 --> 01:28:55.400
because for example, if the
FBI runs facial recognition

01:28:55.400 --> 01:28:57.600
on an image of a bank robbery suspect

01:28:57.600 --> 01:28:59.190
and then produces a wanted poster

01:28:59.190 --> 01:29:00.590
that has that person's name on it

01:29:00.590 --> 01:29:02.779
and shares with the
Boston Police Department,

01:29:02.779 --> 01:29:06.800
obviously the BPD is not going
to be in a position to ask

01:29:06.800 --> 01:29:09.060
every single police
department in the country,

01:29:09.060 --> 01:29:11.042
where did you get the name
attached to this picture?

01:29:11.042 --> 01:29:14.640
And so that's what that
exemption is meant to address.

01:29:14.640 --> 01:29:15.830
There have been some concerns

01:29:15.830 --> 01:29:17.360
from some of our allied organizations

01:29:17.360 --> 01:29:18.960
that we need to tighten that up

01:29:18.960 --> 01:29:20.870
with a little more extra language

01:29:20.870 --> 01:29:23.680
to make clear that that
does not allow the BPD

01:29:23.680 --> 01:29:26.860
to use the RMV system
for facial recognition.

01:29:26.860 --> 01:29:28.980
And we will be suggesting some language

01:29:28.980 --> 01:29:30.580
to the committee to that effect.

01:29:32.480 --> 01:29:34.280
And just to echo a little bit

01:29:34.280 --> 01:29:37.210
of what Kade is sharing here,

01:29:37.210 --> 01:29:40.560
I do wanna point out that in April, 2019,

01:29:40.560 --> 01:29:44.220
what the example of the
student being misidentified

01:29:44.220 --> 01:29:49.100
as a terrorist suspect,
you had that photo shared.

01:29:49.100 --> 01:29:51.270
And even though it was incorrect,

01:29:51.270 --> 01:29:54.110
you have the ramifications of what happens

01:29:54.110 --> 01:29:57.000
because of the presumption of guilt.

01:29:57.000 --> 01:29:59.300
And so this is why I especially believe

01:29:59.300 --> 01:30:02.260
we should also be talking about systems

01:30:02.260 --> 01:30:05.020
that try to infer criminality

01:30:05.020 --> 01:30:08.800
using AI systems in any kind of way.

01:30:08.800 --> 01:30:11.210
Because again, the presumption of guilt

01:30:11.210 --> 01:30:13.440
then adds to the confirmation bias

01:30:13.440 --> 01:30:16.193
of getting something from a machine.

01:30:17.740 --> 01:30:19.530
So, I think in the working session,

01:30:19.530 --> 01:30:23.310
will there be improved language

01:30:23.310 --> 01:30:25.033
around tightening that piece up.

01:30:26.880 --> 01:30:28.903
Yes, we have some suggestions.

01:30:28.903 --> 01:30:30.890
Yeah, thank you, thank you ma'am chir.

01:30:30.890 --> 01:30:32.633
You're welcome, councilor Flynn.

01:30:34.140 --> 01:30:36.627
Wasn't sure if you had any questions.

01:30:38.842 --> 01:30:41.370
Thank you, thank you councilor Edwards.

01:30:41.370 --> 01:30:43.930
I know I had a conversation awhile back

01:30:43.930 --> 01:30:48.080
with Erik Berg from the teacher's
union about the subject,

01:30:48.080 --> 01:30:49.060
and I learned a lot

01:30:49.060 --> 01:30:52.483
and I learned a lot from
listening to the advocates

01:30:52.483 --> 01:30:54.093
this afternoon.

01:30:56.610 --> 01:31:01.610
My question is, I know Joy
covered it a little bit,

01:31:01.970 --> 01:31:05.990
but besides for criminal investigations,

01:31:05.990 --> 01:31:09.080
what are the reasons that the government

01:31:09.080 --> 01:31:12.563
would want surveillance cameras.

01:31:15.860 --> 01:31:17.710
Surveillance, cameras, councilor Flynn,

01:31:17.710 --> 01:31:20.920
or facial recognition
technology specifically?

01:31:20.920 --> 01:31:21.753
Both.

01:31:23.960 --> 01:31:27.600
Well, my understanding
is government agencies,

01:31:27.600 --> 01:31:29.560
including the Boston
Transportation Department

01:31:29.560 --> 01:31:33.414
use surveillance cameras for
things like traffic analysis,

01:31:33.414 --> 01:31:36.500
accident reconstruction.

01:31:36.500 --> 01:31:40.840
So there are non-criminal
uses for surveillance cameras.

01:31:40.840 --> 01:31:45.840
I'm not aware of any
non-criminal uses in government,

01:31:46.310 --> 01:31:49.770
at least for facial facial surveillance,

01:31:49.770 --> 01:31:51.330
except in the,

01:31:51.330 --> 01:31:53.700
I would say so-called intelligence realm.

01:31:53.700 --> 01:31:56.790
So that would mean not a
criminal investigation,

01:31:56.790 --> 01:31:58.540
but rather an intelligence investigation,

01:31:58.540 --> 01:32:00.380
for example of an activist

01:32:00.380 --> 01:32:04.203
or an activist group or a
protest or something like that.

01:32:05.190 --> 01:32:06.560
Okay.

01:32:06.560 --> 01:32:10.980
Can besides government,

01:32:10.980 --> 01:32:15.250
what are the purposes
of facial recognition

01:32:15.250 --> 01:32:18.260
that businesses would want to know?

01:32:18.260 --> 01:32:21.190
Then they might use it in a store,

01:32:21.190 --> 01:32:23.354
but what are some of the other reasons

01:32:23.354 --> 01:32:27.400
private sector might use them.

01:32:27.400 --> 01:32:30.430
Sure, so speaking to private sector uses

01:32:30.430 --> 01:32:32.130
of facial recognition,

01:32:32.130 --> 01:32:34.340
oftentimes you see it
being used for security

01:32:34.340 --> 01:32:38.520
or accessing securing access
to a particular place.

01:32:38.520 --> 01:32:41.410
So only a particular
employees can come in.

01:32:41.410 --> 01:32:43.310
Something that's more alarming

01:32:43.310 --> 01:32:45.450
that we're seeing with commercial use,

01:32:45.450 --> 01:32:47.330
is the use in housing.

01:32:47.330 --> 01:32:50.010
And so we have a case even in Brooklyn,

01:32:50.010 --> 01:32:53.310
where you had tenants
saying to the landlord,

01:32:53.310 --> 01:32:57.090
we don't want to enter
our homes with our face,

01:32:57.090 --> 01:32:59.720
don't install facial
recognition technology.

01:32:59.720 --> 01:33:01.090
They actually won that case,

01:33:01.090 --> 01:33:04.080
but not every group is
going to be so successful.

01:33:04.080 --> 01:33:06.060
So you can be in a situation

01:33:06.060 --> 01:33:08.800
where your face becomes the key.

01:33:08.800 --> 01:33:11.930
But when your face is the key
and it gets stolen or hacked,

01:33:11.930 --> 01:33:14.110
you can't just replace it so easily.

01:33:14.110 --> 01:33:16.640
You might need some plastic surgery.

01:33:16.640 --> 01:33:20.010
So we see facial recognition technologies

01:33:20.010 --> 01:33:23.170
being used for access in certain ways.

01:33:23.170 --> 01:33:25.420
And again, the dangerous use of trying

01:33:25.420 --> 01:33:27.630
to predict something about somebody.

01:33:27.630 --> 01:33:29.820
Are you going to be a good employee?

01:33:29.820 --> 01:33:32.510
You have companies like Amazon,

01:33:32.510 --> 01:33:35.210
saying we can detect fear from your face.

01:33:35.210 --> 01:33:39.160
And so thinking about how
that might be used as well.

01:33:39.160 --> 01:33:40.670
The other thing we have to consider

01:33:40.670 --> 01:33:44.177
when we're talking about commercial uses

01:33:44.177 --> 01:33:45.570
of facial recognition technologies,

01:33:45.570 --> 01:33:47.720
is oftentimes you'll have companies

01:33:47.720 --> 01:33:51.110
have general purpose facial recognition.

01:33:51.110 --> 01:33:53.720
So this then means other people can buy it

01:33:53.720 --> 01:33:55.510
and use it in all kinds of ways.

01:33:55.510 --> 01:33:57.670
So from your Snapchat filter

01:33:57.670 --> 01:34:00.250
to putting it for lethal
autonomous weapons.

01:34:00.250 --> 01:34:01.870
You have a major range

01:34:01.870 --> 01:34:05.754
with what can happen with
these sorts of technologies.

01:34:05.754 --> 01:34:08.933
Pardon me councilor.

01:34:09.858 --> 01:34:10.730
I would just jump into also reiterate

01:34:10.730 --> 01:34:13.510
that this ordinance only
applies to government conduct.

01:34:13.510 --> 01:34:15.791
It would not restrict in any way,

01:34:15.791 --> 01:34:19.893
any entity in the private sector
from using this technology.

01:34:19.893 --> 01:34:23.360
But that said, some other uses,

01:34:23.360 --> 01:34:26.251
I don't know if you've ever
seen the film "Minority Report,"

01:34:26.251 --> 01:34:30.610
but in that film, Tom
Cruise enters them mall

01:34:30.610 --> 01:34:33.707
and some technology says to him,

01:34:33.707 --> 01:34:37.390
"Hello, sir, how did you
like the size small underwear

01:34:37.390 --> 01:34:39.150
you bought last time?"

01:34:39.150 --> 01:34:41.790
So that's actually now
becoming a reality as well,

01:34:41.790 --> 01:34:45.634
that in the commercial space, at stores,

01:34:45.634 --> 01:34:47.790
for marketing purposes,

01:34:47.790 --> 01:34:49.410
we are likely going to see

01:34:49.410 --> 01:34:52.450
if laws do not stop this from happening,

01:34:52.450 --> 01:34:54.500
the application of facial surveillance

01:34:54.500 --> 01:34:57.330
in a marketing and commercial context

01:34:57.330 --> 01:34:59.653
to basically try to get
us to buy more stuff.

01:35:00.977 --> 01:35:03.194
And to underscore that point,

01:35:03.194 --> 01:35:04.812
you have a patent from Facebook,

01:35:04.812 --> 01:35:06.780
which basically Facebook has
so many of our face prints.

01:35:06.780 --> 01:35:09.730
We've been training
their systems for years.

01:35:09.730 --> 01:35:13.080
The patent says, given that
we have this information,

01:35:13.080 --> 01:35:17.070
we can provide you background details

01:35:17.070 --> 01:35:20.300
about somebody entering your store,

01:35:20.300 --> 01:35:22.910
and even give them a
trust worthiness score

01:35:22.910 --> 01:35:25.540
to restrict access to certain products.

01:35:25.540 --> 01:35:29.250
This is a patent that has
been filed by Facebook.

01:35:29.250 --> 01:35:31.270
So it's certainly within the realm

01:35:31.270 --> 01:35:34.200
of what companies are exploring to do.

01:35:34.200 --> 01:35:35.550
And you already have companies

01:35:35.550 --> 01:35:38.130
that use facial recognition technologies

01:35:38.130 --> 01:35:39.560
to assess demographics.

01:35:39.560 --> 01:35:42.860
So you have cameras that
can be put into shelves.

01:35:42.860 --> 01:35:45.396
You have cameras that can
be put into mannequins.

01:35:45.396 --> 01:35:48.040
So you already have this going on

01:35:48.040 --> 01:35:49.700
and Tacoma in Washington,

01:35:49.700 --> 01:35:52.120
they even implemented a system

01:35:52.120 --> 01:35:55.150
where you had to be face checked

01:35:55.150 --> 01:35:58.380
before you could walk
into a convenience store.

01:35:58.380 --> 01:36:00.753
So this technology is already out there.

01:36:01.940 --> 01:36:02.980
Well thank you.

01:36:02.980 --> 01:36:04.512
I know my time is up.

01:36:04.512 --> 01:36:07.360
I'm looking forward to
continuing the conversation

01:36:07.360 --> 01:36:08.650
'cause I have a couple more questions,

01:36:08.650 --> 01:36:10.940
but I'll ask them at another time.

01:36:10.940 --> 01:36:13.210
But again, thank you to the advocates

01:36:13.210 --> 01:36:14.700
and thank you to councilor Edwards.

01:36:14.700 --> 01:36:16.730
Thank you.

01:36:16.730 --> 01:36:19.610
So it's between me and public testimony.

01:36:19.610 --> 01:36:22.699
So I'm gonna just put my
three questions out there

01:36:22.699 --> 01:36:25.930
and then we're gonna go
right down the list of folks

01:36:25.930 --> 01:36:27.670
who have signed up in RSVP.

01:36:28.759 --> 01:36:31.200
Again to those folks who are gonna come

01:36:32.393 --> 01:36:33.280
after you've testified,

01:36:33.280 --> 01:36:35.320
we were maxed out in our limit of people

01:36:35.320 --> 01:36:36.690
who could participate.

01:36:36.690 --> 01:36:39.950
So if you're willing to
testify and then also sign out

01:36:39.950 --> 01:36:41.250
and watch through YouTube

01:36:41.250 --> 01:36:42.900
or watch you and other mechanisms

01:36:42.900 --> 01:36:44.510
to allow somebody else to testify,

01:36:44.510 --> 01:36:47.830
that would be very
helpful to this process.

01:36:47.830 --> 01:36:51.150
I'm looking specifically
at the issue of enforcement

01:36:51.150 --> 01:36:53.580
in this statute or in this ordinance.

01:36:53.580 --> 01:36:56.930
And it says no evidence derived there from

01:36:56.930 --> 01:36:59.770
maybe received in evidence in proceeding

01:36:59.770 --> 01:37:03.830
or before any department or
officer agency regulatory body.

01:37:03.830 --> 01:37:07.503
I want to be clear if the
police received this evidence,

01:37:09.057 --> 01:37:11.832
could a prosecutor use it in court.

01:37:11.832 --> 01:37:14.082
So -
That's my question.

01:37:15.593 --> 01:37:17.070
So that's my issue.

01:37:17.070 --> 01:37:19.720
There seems to be no
actual evidence prohibition

01:37:19.720 --> 01:37:22.154
for use in court against somebody.

01:37:22.154 --> 01:37:24.980
The other issue or concern I have

01:37:24.980 --> 01:37:27.560
is a provision violations
of this ordinance

01:37:27.560 --> 01:37:30.790
by a city employee, shall
result in consequences

01:37:30.790 --> 01:37:35.790
that may include retraining,
suspension, termination,

01:37:36.074 --> 01:37:38.300
but they're all subject to provisions

01:37:38.300 --> 01:37:40.340
of collective bargaining agreements.

01:37:40.340 --> 01:37:42.680
So all of that could be gone away

01:37:42.680 --> 01:37:44.320
if their union hasn't agreed

01:37:45.194 --> 01:37:47.992
to that being part of
the disciplinary steps

01:37:47.992 --> 01:37:48.990
for that particular employee.

01:37:48.990 --> 01:37:52.120
So to me that signals the patrolmen

01:37:52.120 --> 01:37:54.952
and other unions of folks

01:37:54.952 --> 01:37:58.700
who are part of need to need
to have this as part of their,

01:37:58.700 --> 01:38:01.190
a violation of contract
or violation of standard,

01:38:01.190 --> 01:38:03.530
I think maybe I'm wrong.

01:38:03.530 --> 01:38:07.980
And then finally, Joy, your testimony

01:38:07.980 --> 01:38:10.183
about the private sector
has really hit me.

01:38:11.140 --> 01:38:12.710
Thank you so much.

01:38:12.710 --> 01:38:14.370
I'm particularly concerned about this.

01:38:14.370 --> 01:38:15.203
I'm a twin.

01:38:16.590 --> 01:38:20.023
Facebook tags my sister in all
of my pictures automatically.

01:38:21.661 --> 01:38:25.710
I mean I'm a twin, councilor
Essabi George has triplets.

01:38:25.710 --> 01:38:28.418
So for those, we're called
multiples, you're all singletons,

01:38:28.418 --> 01:38:29.860
you were born by yourself.

01:38:29.860 --> 01:38:32.320
We share birth, multiples have you know,

01:38:32.320 --> 01:38:36.097
and so naturally I'm concerned
about this technology.

01:38:36.097 --> 01:38:38.940
Not that my sister is inclined
to do any criminal activity,

01:38:38.940 --> 01:38:41.130
but she may go to a protest
or two, I don't know,

01:38:41.130 --> 01:38:43.955
but either way, the point is,

01:38:43.955 --> 01:38:48.610
I'm concerned about the private
actor and how they interact.

01:38:48.610 --> 01:38:51.230
And I'm particularly concerned

01:38:51.230 --> 01:38:53.720
is how far this will go down the line,

01:38:53.720 --> 01:38:56.732
the chain supply chain, right?

01:38:56.732 --> 01:38:58.920
'Cause we have $600 million in contracts

01:38:58.920 --> 01:39:02.220
for all sorts of things
for the city of Boston.

01:39:02.220 --> 01:39:05.170
If we have a contract
with a cleaning company

01:39:05.170 --> 01:39:07.270
that requires the workers to sign in

01:39:07.270 --> 01:39:09.010
with facial recognition, right?

01:39:09.010 --> 01:39:12.683
So how far down the line
can we go with our money?

01:39:13.920 --> 01:39:17.096
Now I understand time is of the essence.

01:39:17.096 --> 01:39:18.276
And that might be a big,

01:39:18.276 --> 01:39:19.410
big question that we can work
out in the working session.

01:39:19.410 --> 01:39:22.490
I'm particularly concerned
about the courts.

01:39:22.490 --> 01:39:26.874
So if you wanna just focus
on that one, thank you.

01:39:26.874 --> 01:39:27.707
Thank you, councilor.

01:39:27.707 --> 01:39:28.963
So just very quickly,

01:39:31.100 --> 01:39:35.870
we are unclear on what the
city council's power is

01:39:35.870 --> 01:39:38.574
to control the prosecutor's office.

01:39:38.574 --> 01:39:42.530
I think we'll look more into that,

01:39:42.530 --> 01:39:43.990
we'll look closely at that.

01:39:43.990 --> 01:39:46.700
On the second question, I agree.

01:39:46.700 --> 01:39:48.960
We need to look at the BPA agreement,

01:39:48.960 --> 01:39:51.440
which I understand expires the summer.

01:39:51.440 --> 01:39:55.960
And then finally on the
private sector concerns,

01:39:55.960 --> 01:39:57.020
I share them.

01:39:57.020 --> 01:40:00.990
Again, we wanna get this government ban

01:40:00.990 --> 01:40:02.530
passed as quickly as possible.

01:40:02.530 --> 01:40:04.680
The ACLU supports approaches like that,

01:40:04.680 --> 01:40:07.210
that the state of Illinois has taken.

01:40:07.210 --> 01:40:09.395
They passed the nation's strongest

01:40:09.395 --> 01:40:10.950
consumer facing biometrics privacy law.

01:40:10.950 --> 01:40:13.910
It's called the Biometric
Information Privacy Act,

01:40:13.910 --> 01:40:14.920
BIPA.

01:40:14.920 --> 01:40:17.650
BIPA essentially prevents
private companies,

01:40:17.650 --> 01:40:18.680
any private companies,

01:40:18.680 --> 01:40:20.610
from collecting your biometric data

01:40:20.610 --> 01:40:22.380
without your opt-in consent.

01:40:22.380 --> 01:40:24.240
And that's not, I clicked a button

01:40:24.240 --> 01:40:26.250
when I was scrolling
through a terms of service,

01:40:26.250 --> 01:40:28.640
it's you actually have
to sign a piece of paper

01:40:28.640 --> 01:40:29.473
and give it to them.

01:40:29.473 --> 01:40:32.174
So we need a law like that
right here in Massachusetts.

01:40:32.174 --> 01:40:34.501
Thank you.

01:40:34.501 --> 01:40:35.859
So at this point,

01:40:35.859 --> 01:40:36.760
I'm gonna turn it over
to public testimony.

01:40:36.760 --> 01:40:39.120
I have some folks who
have already committed

01:40:39.120 --> 01:40:40.910
and asked to speak today.

01:40:40.910 --> 01:40:41.900
I'm gonna go through them.

01:40:41.900 --> 01:40:44.540
I'm going to, it's
already quarter to five.

01:40:44.540 --> 01:40:48.610
I'm going to try and end this
hearing no later than six.

01:40:48.610 --> 01:40:51.301
So that's an hour and 15 minutes

01:40:51.301 --> 01:40:54.320
to move through public testimony.

01:40:54.320 --> 01:40:55.320
And I'm gonna try,

01:40:55.320 --> 01:40:57.110
I'm gonna have to keep
folks to two minutes

01:40:57.110 --> 01:40:58.400
as I said before,

01:40:58.400 --> 01:41:00.830
because there are a lot
of people signed up.

01:41:00.830 --> 01:41:02.910
So, of the folks who've signed up,

01:41:02.910 --> 01:41:04.530
I will go through that list.

01:41:04.530 --> 01:41:07.322
Then I'm gonna invite
people to raise their hands

01:41:07.322 --> 01:41:10.040
who may not have signed up directly,

01:41:10.040 --> 01:41:11.920
who would also like to testify.

01:41:11.920 --> 01:41:16.490
All right, so I have on the
list, Bonnie Tenneriello

01:41:18.020 --> 01:41:19.620
from the National Lawyers Guild.

01:41:22.513 --> 01:41:24.749
After her I have Callan Bignoli

01:41:24.749 --> 01:41:27.710
from the Library Freedom
Project and Maty Cropley.

01:41:27.710 --> 01:41:29.460
Those are the three folks lined up.

01:41:32.210 --> 01:41:33.043
Let's see.

01:41:34.070 --> 01:41:36.383
Kaitlin, is there a Bonnie?

01:41:42.569 --> 01:41:44.220
Okay well, I see Callan
right now ready to go.

01:41:44.220 --> 01:41:46.540
So I'm gonna go ahead
and start with Callan

01:41:46.540 --> 01:41:49.223
if you wanna start and
your two minutes has begun.

01:41:51.680 --> 01:41:54.572
Sure, hi, I'm Callan Bignoli,

01:41:54.572 --> 01:41:56.040
I am a resident of West Roxbury

01:41:56.040 --> 01:41:58.180
and a librarian in the Boston area.

01:41:58.180 --> 01:42:00.469
And I am speaking on behalf

01:42:00.469 --> 01:42:02.090
of the Library Freedom Project Today.

01:42:02.090 --> 01:42:03.129
So thank you to the chair

01:42:03.129 --> 01:42:04.371
and thank you to all of city council

01:42:04.371 --> 01:42:05.270
for the chance to testify today

01:42:05.270 --> 01:42:07.820
in this important piece of legislation.

01:42:07.820 --> 01:42:11.600
So, the Library Freedom Project
is a library advocacy group

01:42:11.600 --> 01:42:14.000
that trains library workers to advocate

01:42:14.000 --> 01:42:15.680
and educate their library community

01:42:15.680 --> 01:42:17.710
about privacy and surveillance.

01:42:17.710 --> 01:42:20.760
We include dozens of library
workers from the U.S.,

01:42:20.760 --> 01:42:21.800
Canada and Mexico,

01:42:21.800 --> 01:42:24.248
including eight librarians
from Massachusetts.

01:42:24.248 --> 01:42:26.610
These library workers
educate their colleagues

01:42:26.610 --> 01:42:28.330
and library users about surveillance

01:42:28.330 --> 01:42:31.810
by creating library programs,
union initiatives, workshops,

01:42:31.810 --> 01:42:34.766
and other resources inform
and agitate for change.

01:42:34.766 --> 01:42:37.150
And facial recognition technology

01:42:37.150 --> 01:42:40.490
represents a class of
technology that is antithetical

01:42:40.490 --> 01:42:41.960
to the values of privacy

01:42:41.960 --> 01:42:44.533
and confidentiality of library workers.

01:42:45.490 --> 01:42:47.890
As library staff, we understand
that part of our work

01:42:47.890 --> 01:42:50.560
is to represent these
values and the services

01:42:50.560 --> 01:42:53.560
and resources we provide
to our library community

01:42:53.560 --> 01:42:57.167
in order to reduce the harm of
state and corporate scrutiny.

01:42:57.167 --> 01:42:59.110
As we understand this,

01:42:59.110 --> 01:43:01.933
we can see the social
and economic imperatives

01:43:01.933 --> 01:43:04.530
that privilege some and marginalize others

01:43:04.530 --> 01:43:06.780
that are encoded into
many computer systems

01:43:06.780 --> 01:43:08.190
and applications.

01:43:08.190 --> 01:43:09.980
This is a result of the structure

01:43:09.980 --> 01:43:11.360
of our technology industry,

01:43:11.360 --> 01:43:14.110
which prioritizes the
interests of management,

01:43:14.110 --> 01:43:16.220
venture capitalists and stockholders,

01:43:16.220 --> 01:43:18.129
who are mostly white men.

01:43:18.129 --> 01:43:20.250
The racial and gender biases

01:43:20.250 --> 01:43:22.720
inherent in face surveillance technology

01:43:22.720 --> 01:43:24.500
are indicative of those values

01:43:24.500 --> 01:43:28.210
and they describe how moneyed
interests seek to shape

01:43:28.210 --> 01:43:31.020
or reinforce racist and gender depressions

01:43:31.020 --> 01:43:32.610
by creating computer systems

01:43:32.610 --> 01:43:34.870
that extend the reach of profiling

01:43:34.870 --> 01:43:37.060
through the exercise of capital.

01:43:37.060 --> 01:43:40.471
Democratic direct worker
and community control

01:43:40.471 --> 01:43:41.490
over the development acquisition

01:43:41.490 --> 01:43:44.610
and practices of surveillance
and surveillance technology,

01:43:44.610 --> 01:43:46.840
is an urgent priority to protect safety

01:43:46.840 --> 01:43:49.690
and privacy and our
neighborhoods and schools.

01:43:49.690 --> 01:43:51.220
So the Library Freedom Project

01:43:51.220 --> 01:43:53.540
supports this urgently necessary ordinance

01:43:53.540 --> 01:43:56.210
to ban facial recognition
technology in Boston

01:43:56.210 --> 01:43:57.980
for the safety and privacy

01:43:57.980 --> 01:44:01.040
of those who were working in
the city and who live here.

01:44:01.040 --> 01:44:04.560
we urge the council to rest
control over surveillance -

01:44:04.560 --> 01:44:06.257
Oh, two minutes is up.
Oops!

01:44:06.257 --> 01:44:09.230
Two minutes is up, so
If you wanna summarize.

01:44:09.230 --> 01:44:11.169
I have one, one more sentence.

01:44:11.169 --> 01:44:15.060
We can not allow Boston
to adopt authoritarian,

01:44:15.060 --> 01:44:18.930
unregulated and bias surveillance
technology, thank you.

01:44:18.930 --> 01:44:21.210
Thank you very much, Bonnie,

01:44:21.210 --> 01:44:23.240
I don't know if Bonnie's available,

01:44:23.240 --> 01:44:26.900
if not I see Maty is available.

01:44:26.900 --> 01:44:29.650
So I'm gonna go ahead and
start your two minutes, Maty.

01:44:30.640 --> 01:44:31.850
Thank you very much.

01:44:31.850 --> 01:44:33.960
Thank you councilor Edwards

01:44:33.960 --> 01:44:35.490
and thank you to the city council

01:44:35.490 --> 01:44:38.124
and all the panelists for
taking up this important issue.

01:44:38.124 --> 01:44:41.823
My name is Maty Cropley,
I use they/them pronouns.

01:44:41.823 --> 01:44:44.850
I'm a teen librarian and
a bargaining unit member

01:44:44.850 --> 01:44:47.529
of the Boston Public Library
Professional Staff Association,

01:44:47.529 --> 01:44:51.506
MSLA local 4928 AFT.

01:44:51.506 --> 01:44:53.380
Our union of library workers

01:44:53.380 --> 01:44:56.068
supports a ban on facial
recognition in Boston.

01:44:56.068 --> 01:44:58.070
In voting to do so,

01:44:58.070 --> 01:45:00.167
our union recognizes
that facial recognition

01:45:00.167 --> 01:45:02.240
and other forms of biometric surveillance

01:45:02.240 --> 01:45:03.610
are a threat to the civil liberties

01:45:03.610 --> 01:45:06.810
and safety of our colleagues
and of library users.

01:45:06.810 --> 01:45:09.170
Our library ethics of privacy
and intellectual freedom

01:45:09.170 --> 01:45:12.400
are incompatible with
this invasive technology.

01:45:12.400 --> 01:45:14.007
We recognize that facial recognition

01:45:14.007 --> 01:45:16.670
and other biometric
surveillance technologies

01:45:16.670 --> 01:45:18.510
are proven to be riddled with racist,

01:45:18.510 --> 01:45:21.340
ableist and gendered algorithmic biases.

01:45:21.340 --> 01:45:23.770
These systems routinely
misidentify people of color,

01:45:23.770 --> 01:45:25.987
which can result in needless
contact with law enforcement

01:45:25.987 --> 01:45:30.080
and other scrutiny, essentially
automating racial profiling.

01:45:30.080 --> 01:45:32.890
We recognize the harm of
surveillance for youth in our city,

01:45:32.890 --> 01:45:35.820
especially black, brown
and immigrant youth.

01:45:35.820 --> 01:45:37.890
Unregulated scrutiny by authorities

01:45:37.890 --> 01:45:40.130
leads to early contact
with law enforcement

01:45:40.130 --> 01:45:43.270
resulting in disenfranchisement,
marginalized futures

01:45:43.270 --> 01:45:45.920
and potential death by state violence.

01:45:45.920 --> 01:45:48.520
We recognize that public
areas such as libraries,

01:45:48.520 --> 01:45:50.500
parks, and sidewalks exist as spaces

01:45:50.500 --> 01:45:52.930
in which people should be free to move,

01:45:52.930 --> 01:45:56.130
speak, think inquire, perform, protest,

01:45:56.130 --> 01:45:58.460
and assemble freely without
the intense scrutiny

01:45:58.460 --> 01:46:01.270
of unregulated surveillance
by law enforcement.

01:46:01.270 --> 01:46:03.540
Public spaces exist to extend our rights

01:46:03.540 --> 01:46:05.110
and provide space for the performance

01:46:05.110 --> 01:46:08.340
of our civil liberties, not policing.

01:46:08.340 --> 01:46:10.090
A ban on face surveillance technology

01:46:10.090 --> 01:46:12.384
is critically important for the residents

01:46:12.384 --> 01:46:15.180
and visitors to the city of Boston.

01:46:15.180 --> 01:46:17.584
Our union encourages you to ban

01:46:17.584 --> 01:46:18.810
the use of face surveillance
in the city of Boston

01:46:18.810 --> 01:46:21.830
by supporting and passing
this very crucial ordinance.

01:46:21.830 --> 01:46:23.390
I'd like to thank you for your time.

01:46:23.390 --> 01:46:25.080
And we are the Boston Public Library,

01:46:25.080 --> 01:46:26.820
Professional Staff Association.

01:46:26.820 --> 01:46:28.630
Thank you very much.

01:46:28.630 --> 01:46:30.163
Thank you very much.

01:46:30.163 --> 01:46:34.570
I understand that Ms. Bonnie is available.

01:46:34.570 --> 01:46:39.033
She's under a name Linda Rydzewski,

01:46:42.282 --> 01:46:43.682
and we're gonna pull her up.

01:46:47.339 --> 01:46:48.513
I'll check when she's available.

01:46:49.640 --> 01:46:53.163
After her will be the
following three testifiers,

01:46:53.163 --> 01:46:58.163
Nikhill Thorat, Nour Sulalman
and professor Woodrow Hartzog.

01:46:59.668 --> 01:47:02.193
First, Bonnie.

01:47:07.984 --> 01:47:10.901
She's under Linda Rydzewski, sorry.

01:47:13.564 --> 01:47:15.553
Linda Rydzewski

01:47:19.904 --> 01:47:24.780
I am so sorry, I've had
a technical problems.

01:47:24.780 --> 01:47:26.810
This is Bonnie Tenneriello,

01:47:26.810 --> 01:47:29.360
on behalf of the National Lawyers Guild.

01:47:29.360 --> 01:47:34.270
And I had to sign in
with my office account

01:47:34.270 --> 01:47:38.880
and I am not representing
Prisoner's Legal Services

01:47:38.880 --> 01:47:42.800
and I couldn't change the screen
name once I was signed in.

01:47:42.800 --> 01:47:44.283
Am I audible to everyone?

01:47:45.690 --> 01:47:48.000
You're on and you have two minutes.

01:47:48.000 --> 01:47:49.585
Okay.

01:47:49.585 --> 01:47:53.210
I'm speaking on behalf of
the National Lawyers Guild,

01:47:53.210 --> 01:47:55.083
Massachusetts Chapter,

01:47:55.083 --> 01:48:00.083
which for over 80 years as
fought for human rights,

01:48:04.040 --> 01:48:06.300
and we're deeply
concerned over the dangers

01:48:06.300 --> 01:48:07.680
of facial surveillance.

01:48:07.680 --> 01:48:11.087
We strongly support this ordinance.

01:48:11.087 --> 01:48:15.480
Facial recognition
deployed through cameras

01:48:15.480 --> 01:48:17.690
throughout a city can be used

01:48:17.690 --> 01:48:19.600
to track the movements of dissidents

01:48:19.600 --> 01:48:22.790
and anyone attending a protest
as others have observed.

01:48:22.790 --> 01:48:25.410
Our history and the National Lawyers Guild

01:48:25.410 --> 01:48:28.700
shows that this danger is real.

01:48:28.700 --> 01:48:30.830
We have defended political dissidents

01:48:30.830 --> 01:48:33.187
targeted by law enforcement,

01:48:33.187 --> 01:48:36.100
such as members of the
Black Panther Party,

01:48:36.100 --> 01:48:37.330
American Indian Movement,

01:48:37.330 --> 01:48:39.300
Puerto Rican Independence Movement

01:48:39.300 --> 01:48:41.600
and we're recently here in Boston,

01:48:41.600 --> 01:48:44.106
occupied Boston Climate Change activists,

01:48:44.106 --> 01:48:47.270
those opposing a straight pride event

01:48:47.270 --> 01:48:48.920
and Black Lives Matter.

01:48:48.920 --> 01:48:53.920
We know that the dangers
of political surveillance

01:48:55.580 --> 01:48:58.893
and political use of
this technology are real.

01:48:59.810 --> 01:49:01.020
The National Lawyers Guild

01:49:01.020 --> 01:49:04.023
also helped expose illegal surveillance

01:49:04.023 --> 01:49:09.023
in the Church Commission
1975-76 COINTELPRO hearings.

01:49:10.623 --> 01:49:12.684
We know from this experience

01:49:12.684 --> 01:49:15.960
that this can be used to disrupt

01:49:15.960 --> 01:49:19.930
and prosecute political protest.

01:49:19.930 --> 01:49:21.760
People must be able to demonstrate

01:49:21.760 --> 01:49:25.910
without fear of being identified
and tracked afterwards.

01:49:25.910 --> 01:49:28.665
I will not repeat what others have said

01:49:28.665 --> 01:49:33.050
very articulately about just
the basic privacy concerns

01:49:33.050 --> 01:49:35.050
of being able to walk through a city,

01:49:35.050 --> 01:49:37.660
without having cameras track your identity

01:49:37.660 --> 01:49:39.660
and movements throughout the city,

01:49:39.660 --> 01:49:44.180
nor will I repeat the excellent testimony

01:49:44.180 --> 01:49:49.180
that was given about the
racial bias in this technology.

01:49:49.550 --> 01:49:52.320
But on behalf of the
National Lawyers Guild,

01:49:52.320 --> 01:49:56.520
I will say that we cannot
tolerate a technology

01:49:56.520 --> 01:50:00.060
that perpetuates racism
in law enforcement,

01:50:00.060 --> 01:50:01.840
as tens of thousands of people

01:50:01.840 --> 01:50:05.180
take to the streets
calling for racial justice.

01:50:05.180 --> 01:50:08.290
We're at a historical moment
when our society is demanding

01:50:08.290 --> 01:50:11.110
and this council is
considering a shift away

01:50:11.110 --> 01:50:15.145
from control and policing
of communities of color

01:50:15.145 --> 01:50:17.164
and low-income communities

01:50:17.164 --> 01:50:18.450
and towards community directed programs

01:50:18.450 --> 01:50:22.180
that channel resources to
jobs, healthcare, education,

01:50:22.180 --> 01:50:25.204
and other programs that
create true safety.

01:50:25.204 --> 01:50:29.070
We reject facial surveillance

01:50:29.070 --> 01:50:33.210
and we urge the council
to pass this ordinance.

01:50:33.210 --> 01:50:35.033
Thank you very much.

01:50:36.650 --> 01:50:39.843
So up next we have Nikhill Thorat.

01:50:42.921 --> 01:50:44.170
Sorry, if I mispronounced your name.

01:50:44.170 --> 01:50:45.310
No harm, you got that right.

01:50:45.310 --> 01:50:48.263
So thank you chair and to the
amazing speakers before me.

01:50:48.263 --> 01:50:52.990
My name is Nikhil, I work on
at Google Brain in Cambridge.

01:50:52.990 --> 01:50:54.510
So I specifically work in the area

01:50:54.510 --> 01:50:57.933
of machine learning fairness
and interpretability.

01:50:57.933 --> 01:50:59.330
So this is sort of the stuff that we do.

01:50:59.330 --> 01:51:00.620
So I'm here as a citizen,

01:51:00.620 --> 01:51:02.950
and I am very much in
favor of the ordinance

01:51:02.950 --> 01:51:05.710
banning facial recognition
by public officials

01:51:05.710 --> 01:51:07.300
here in Boston.

01:51:07.300 --> 01:51:10.310
So modern AI algorithms
are statistical machines.

01:51:10.310 --> 01:51:12.800
They base predictions off
patterns and data sets

01:51:12.800 --> 01:51:15.230
that they're trained on,
there's there's no magic here.

01:51:15.230 --> 01:51:18.710
So any bias that stems from
how a data set is collected,

01:51:18.710 --> 01:51:20.900
like non-representative collection of data

01:51:20.900 --> 01:51:21.880
for different races

01:51:21.880 --> 01:51:23.610
because of historical context,

01:51:23.610 --> 01:51:27.260
gets automatically reflected
in the AI models predictions.

01:51:27.260 --> 01:51:31.060
So what this means is that it
manifests as unequal errors

01:51:31.060 --> 01:51:33.460
between subgroups, like race or gender.

01:51:33.460 --> 01:51:35.050
And this is not theoretical,

01:51:35.050 --> 01:51:36.680
it's been studied very deeply

01:51:37.975 --> 01:51:39.473
by many AI researchers in this field

01:51:39.473 --> 01:51:40.330
who have been on this call.

01:51:40.330 --> 01:51:42.253
There's a federal NISD,

01:51:42.253 --> 01:51:44.700
a National Institute of
Standards and Technology Study

01:51:44.700 --> 01:51:47.280
that looks at almost 200
facial recognition algorithms

01:51:47.280 --> 01:51:49.880
and found significant
demographic disparities

01:51:49.880 --> 01:51:51.400
in most of them.

01:51:51.400 --> 01:51:55.110
And there's another paper
by Joy here, Gender Shades,

01:51:55.110 --> 01:51:57.027
that looked at three commercial
classification systems

01:51:57.027 --> 01:51:58.450
and found that there are

01:51:59.690 --> 01:52:03.740
35% of the time incorrect
results for dark-skinned females

01:52:03.740 --> 01:52:07.040
versus only 0.8% incorrect
for light-skinned males.

01:52:07.040 --> 01:52:08.977
This is, this is horrible, right?

01:52:08.977 --> 01:52:12.510
So these mistakes can't
also be viewed in isolation.

01:52:12.510 --> 01:52:14.820
They will perpetuate bias issues

01:52:14.820 --> 01:52:16.300
by informing the collection

01:52:16.300 --> 01:52:18.240
of the next generation of datasets,

01:52:18.240 --> 01:52:19.750
which are then again used

01:52:19.750 --> 01:52:22.540
to train the next generation of AI models.

01:52:22.540 --> 01:52:24.580
Moreover, when mistakes are made either

01:52:24.580 --> 01:52:26.780
by a machine or by a human being,

01:52:26.780 --> 01:52:28.430
we need to be able to ask the question,

01:52:28.430 --> 01:52:30.460
why was that mistake made?

01:52:30.460 --> 01:52:32.972
And we simply haven't
developed robust tools

01:52:32.972 --> 01:52:35.010
to be able to hold these algorithms

01:52:35.010 --> 01:52:37.160
to an acceptable level of transparency,

01:52:37.160 --> 01:52:40.200
to answer any of these critical questions.

01:52:40.200 --> 01:52:42.117
Deployment of these systems

01:52:42.117 --> 01:52:43.929
will exacerbate the issues of racial bias

01:52:43.929 --> 01:52:46.130
and policing and accelerate
the various social inequalities

01:52:47.098 --> 01:52:49.230
that we're protesting to
innocent people will be targeted.

01:52:49.230 --> 01:52:51.533
The threshold for deploying these systems

01:52:51.533 --> 01:52:52.970
should be extremely high,

01:52:52.970 --> 01:52:55.777
one that's arguably not
reachable beyond accuracy,

01:52:55.777 --> 01:52:58.174
beyond a hundred percent accuracy idea.

01:52:58.174 --> 01:53:00.050
Data would have to be public

01:53:00.050 --> 01:53:02.870
and there would have to be
actionable algorithmic oversight.

01:53:02.870 --> 01:53:05.715
This is an incredibly high bar
and we are nowhere near that,

01:53:05.715 --> 01:53:08.400
both algorithmically and societaly.

01:53:08.400 --> 01:53:09.300
Along with this ordinance,

01:53:09.300 --> 01:53:10.840
we must start laying the groundwork

01:53:10.840 --> 01:53:13.540
for a rigorous criteria
for future technology

01:53:13.540 --> 01:53:15.910
as it is an inevitable conversation.

01:53:15.910 --> 01:53:17.500
But first we must pass the ordinance

01:53:17.500 --> 01:53:19.400
banning facial recognition in Boston.

01:53:19.400 --> 01:53:20.700
Thank you very much.

01:53:20.700 --> 01:53:22.672
Thank you very much,

01:53:22.672 --> 01:53:26.023
following Nikhill we have Nour Sulalman.

01:53:28.690 --> 01:53:31.500
Sorry again for mispronunciation.

01:53:31.500 --> 01:53:32.333
It's all good.

01:53:33.290 --> 01:53:35.314
Thank you council members

01:53:35.314 --> 01:53:38.118
and authors of the ordinance
for your service to the city.

01:53:38.118 --> 01:53:40.870
My name is Noue Sulalman Langedorfer,

01:53:40.870 --> 01:53:43.128
and I use she/her pronouns.

01:53:43.128 --> 01:53:45.770
I'm a resident of Jamaica Plain,

01:53:45.770 --> 01:53:48.939
and I'm here in my capacity
as a private citizen.

01:53:48.939 --> 01:53:52.240
I won't repeat what everyone else said,

01:53:52.240 --> 01:53:55.130
but I will say that the
use of facial recognition

01:53:55.130 --> 01:53:58.620
by law enforcement today,
is especially disturbing

01:53:58.620 --> 01:54:01.990
due to the epidemic of police
violence in this country

01:54:01.990 --> 01:54:04.850
and the dysfunctional relationship it has

01:54:04.850 --> 01:54:08.390
with black and brown people in the city.

01:54:08.390 --> 01:54:10.580
And with all due respect,

01:54:10.580 --> 01:54:13.300
I'm unconvinced by the distinction made

01:54:13.300 --> 01:54:16.536
between facial surveillance
and facial recognition.

01:54:16.536 --> 01:54:21.536
I'm even more disturbed or I am disturbed

01:54:21.980 --> 01:54:23.410
that the commissioner does not know

01:54:23.410 --> 01:54:27.191
if the police department uses
facial recognition software.

01:54:27.191 --> 01:54:31.310
I asked the council to consider supporting

01:54:31.310 --> 01:54:33.890
that the ordinance established a total ban

01:54:33.890 --> 01:54:35.720
on the use of facial recognition software

01:54:35.720 --> 01:54:39.100
in all public spaces,
including by law enforcement,

01:54:39.100 --> 01:54:41.380
malls and shopping centers, retail spaces,

01:54:41.380 --> 01:54:44.770
restaurants open to the public,
state government buildings,

01:54:44.770 --> 01:54:48.520
courts, public schools,
schools funded by the state,

01:54:48.520 --> 01:54:50.980
on public streets and
in places of employment,

01:54:50.980 --> 01:54:52.590
as a condition of employment

01:54:52.590 --> 01:54:55.899
and as a condition of landlords
leasing rental properties.

01:54:55.899 --> 01:54:58.350
The ban should also apply to the use

01:54:58.350 --> 01:55:00.680
and purchase a facial recognition software

01:55:00.680 --> 01:55:03.790
by any state agency operating in Boston,

01:55:03.790 --> 01:55:05.830
including law enforcement

01:55:05.830 --> 01:55:08.980
and I further or to the council
to consider adopting a ban

01:55:08.980 --> 01:55:12.800
on the use of private DNA
databases by law enforcement

01:55:12.800 --> 01:55:15.790
and all remote surveillance systems,

01:55:15.790 --> 01:55:18.457
including those that
recognize individual gates.

01:55:18.457 --> 01:55:23.457
Information gathered through
the aforementioned technologies

01:55:24.010 --> 01:55:27.390
should not be deemed
admissible in civil, criminal

01:55:27.390 --> 01:55:29.589
or administrative proceedings

01:55:29.589 --> 01:55:33.516
or serve as a basis for
granting a search warrant.

01:55:33.516 --> 01:55:34.993
Thank you madam chair.

01:55:38.200 --> 01:55:39.300
Thank you very much.

01:55:40.149 --> 01:55:43.683
I have a professor Woodrow Hartzog.

01:55:46.320 --> 01:55:47.570
Okay, two minutes.

01:55:47.570 --> 01:55:50.340
Thank you so much, dear councilors,

01:55:50.340 --> 01:55:52.230
thank you for allowing me the opportunity

01:55:52.230 --> 01:55:54.470
to speak in support of the ordinance.

01:55:54.470 --> 01:55:56.990
Banning face surveillance in Boston.

01:55:56.990 --> 01:55:59.170
I am a professor of law
and computer science

01:55:59.170 --> 01:56:00.810
at Northeastern University,

01:56:00.810 --> 01:56:02.913
who has been researching and writing

01:56:02.913 --> 01:56:04.610
about the risks of facial
recognition technologies

01:56:04.610 --> 01:56:06.280
for over seven years,

01:56:06.280 --> 01:56:09.419
I make these comments in my
personal academic capacity.

01:56:09.419 --> 01:56:11.128
I'm not serving as an advocate

01:56:11.128 --> 01:56:14.070
for any particular organization.

01:56:14.070 --> 01:56:16.680
Please allow me to be direct,

01:56:16.680 --> 01:56:18.290
facial recognition technology

01:56:18.290 --> 01:56:21.980
is the most dangerous
surveillance tool ever invented.

01:56:21.980 --> 01:56:24.610
It poses substantial
threats to civil liberties,

01:56:24.610 --> 01:56:27.080
privacy and democratic accountability.

01:56:27.080 --> 01:56:30.530
Quite simply the world has
never seen anything like it.

01:56:30.530 --> 01:56:33.950
Traditional legal rules, such
as requiring legal process

01:56:33.950 --> 01:56:36.535
or people's consent before
surveillance could be conducted,

01:56:36.535 --> 01:56:39.340
will only entrench these systems,

01:56:39.340 --> 01:56:41.220
lead to a more watched society

01:56:41.220 --> 01:56:44.500
where we are all treated
as suspects all the time.

01:56:44.500 --> 01:56:45.850
Anything less than a ban

01:56:45.850 --> 01:56:48.550
will inevitably lead to unacceptable abuse

01:56:48.550 --> 01:56:51.223
of the massive power
bestowed by these systems.

01:56:51.223 --> 01:56:53.230
That is why I believe that this ordinance

01:56:53.230 --> 01:56:55.490
is justified and necessary.

01:56:55.490 --> 01:56:57.190
There are many ways that law enforcement's

01:56:57.190 --> 01:56:59.712
use of facial recognition
technology can harm people.

01:56:59.712 --> 01:57:01.600
Government surveillance

01:57:01.600 --> 01:57:04.850
has disproportionately targeted
marginalized communities,

01:57:04.850 --> 01:57:06.670
specifically people of color,

01:57:06.670 --> 01:57:09.070
facial recognition will
only make this worse

01:57:09.070 --> 01:57:10.930
because it is inaccurate and bias

01:57:10.930 --> 01:57:13.715
based along racial and gender lines.

01:57:13.715 --> 01:57:16.177
And while facial
recognition is unacceptable

01:57:16.177 --> 01:57:18.440
and it's biased and error prone,

01:57:18.440 --> 01:57:20.270
the more accurate it becomes,

01:57:20.270 --> 01:57:22.200
the more oppressive it will get.

01:57:22.200 --> 01:57:25.712
Accurate systems will be more
heavily used and invested in

01:57:25.712 --> 01:57:28.910
further endangering the people of Boston.

01:57:28.910 --> 01:57:31.560
Use of facial recognition
seems likely to create

01:57:31.560 --> 01:57:34.000
a pervasive atmosphere of chill.

01:57:34.000 --> 01:57:36.840
These tools make it easier
to engage in surveillance,

01:57:36.840 --> 01:57:40.010
which means the more
surveillance can and will occur.

01:57:40.010 --> 01:57:43.180
The mere prospect of a
hyper surveil society

01:57:43.180 --> 01:57:44.870
could routinely prevent citizens

01:57:44.870 --> 01:57:47.940
from engaging in First
Amendment protected activities,

01:57:47.940 --> 01:57:50.020
such as protesting and worshiping,

01:57:50.020 --> 01:57:53.590
for fear of ending up on
government watch lists.

01:57:53.590 --> 01:57:55.670
Facial recognition also poses a threat

01:57:55.670 --> 01:57:57.640
to our ideals of due process,

01:57:57.640 --> 01:57:59.010
because it makes it all too easy

01:57:59.010 --> 01:58:02.490
for governments to excessively
enforce minor infractions

01:58:02.490 --> 01:58:05.200
as pretext for secretly monitoring

01:58:05.200 --> 01:58:07.610
and retaliating against our citizens

01:58:07.610 --> 01:58:10.760
who are often targeted for
speaking up like journalists,

01:58:10.760 --> 01:58:13.370
whistleblowers and activists.

01:58:13.370 --> 01:58:15.860
The net result could be
anxious and oppressed citizens

01:58:15.860 --> 01:58:19.320
who were denied fundamental
opportunities and rights.

01:58:19.320 --> 01:58:20.690
For the reasons outlined above,

01:58:20.690 --> 01:58:22.190
I strongly support the ordinance

01:58:22.190 --> 01:58:24.950
banning facial recognition
surveillance in Boston.

01:58:24.950 --> 01:58:26.630
It's the best approach for preventing

01:58:26.630 --> 01:58:27.980
an Orwellian future

01:58:27.980 --> 01:58:29.670
and ensuring that the city of Boston

01:58:29.670 --> 01:58:33.100
remain a place where people can flourish

01:58:33.100 --> 01:58:35.870
and civil liberties from a protected.

01:58:35.870 --> 01:58:37.420
Thank you so much, professor.

01:58:38.280 --> 01:58:43.280
We have coming up, Alex
Marthews, Emily Reif,

01:58:44.637 --> 01:58:47.273
Jurell Laronal.

01:58:48.550 --> 01:58:52.510
Those three folks, I don't
know if they're ready to go.

01:58:52.510 --> 01:58:56.373
But we'll start, I see Jurell, I see Alex.

01:58:57.290 --> 01:58:59.597
Go ahead Alex, Marthews.

01:59:01.320 --> 01:59:02.153
Hi.

01:59:03.551 --> 01:59:08.551
I don't wish to echo what
other excellent advocates

01:59:09.810 --> 01:59:10.970
have been saying,

01:59:10.970 --> 01:59:15.400
but I am here representing Digital Fourth,

01:59:15.400 --> 01:59:16.740
restored fourth Boston,

01:59:16.740 --> 01:59:19.340
where she is a volunteer based

01:59:19.340 --> 01:59:22.780
advocacy group on surveillance
and policing issues

01:59:22.780 --> 01:59:24.103
in the Boston area.

01:59:25.373 --> 01:59:30.373
I wanna highlight some
comments of commissioner Gross,

01:59:30.898 --> 01:59:34.283
in addition to our testimony.

01:59:35.150 --> 01:59:39.040
Commissioner Gross seems to
recognize the racial biases

01:59:39.040 --> 01:59:43.410
and limitations of this
technology as it stands now,

01:59:43.410 --> 01:59:47.420
but he says it's improving
and he holds out hope

01:59:47.420 --> 01:59:51.510
that it will be more
accurate in the future.

01:59:51.510 --> 01:59:53.630
And that perhaps at some future point,

01:59:53.630 --> 01:59:56.960
the Boston City Council should reconsider

01:59:56.960 --> 01:59:58.580
whether it will be appropriate

01:59:58.580 --> 02:00:03.134
to implement facial
recognition technology.

02:00:03.134 --> 02:00:05.710
The problem with this is that

02:00:05.710 --> 02:00:10.710
a 100% accurate facial
recognition technology system

02:00:10.780 --> 02:00:11.933
would be terrifying.

02:00:13.356 --> 02:00:17.657
And it would represent the
death of anonymity in public.

02:00:18.570 --> 02:00:23.480
In terms of the effect of
facial recognition technology

02:00:23.480 --> 02:00:26.083
on legislative terrorists themselves,

02:00:27.260 --> 02:00:29.520
there have been a number of studies now

02:00:30.457 --> 02:00:34.430
that show that current facial
recognition technologies

02:00:34.430 --> 02:00:36.170
are perfectly capable

02:00:37.980 --> 02:00:40.300
of misidentifying legislators as criminals

02:00:41.420 --> 02:00:45.820
and these systems being 100% accurate

02:00:45.820 --> 02:00:49.710
will pose even more
worrying risks about that.

02:00:49.710 --> 02:00:52.170
As city councilors,

02:00:52.170 --> 02:00:54.570
where are you going when
you're going in public,

02:00:54.570 --> 02:00:57.210
are you meeting with
social justice groups?

02:00:57.210 --> 02:00:59.290
Are you meeting with immigrant advocates?

02:00:59.290 --> 02:01:01.810
Are you meeting with God forbid,

02:01:01.810 --> 02:01:04.835
police reform and down to
kit accountability groups?

02:01:04.835 --> 02:01:08.210
Are you doing something
embarrassing perhaps

02:01:08.210 --> 02:01:10.960
that could be used to influence your votes

02:01:10.960 --> 02:01:13.000
on matters of public interest

02:01:13.000 --> 02:01:16.100
or matters relating to the police budget?

02:01:16.100 --> 02:01:20.810
The risk of these things
happening are very real,

02:01:20.810 --> 02:01:23.480
if it is to be implemented in the future.

02:01:23.480 --> 02:01:26.154
And the only appropriate response

02:01:26.154 --> 02:01:30.663
is for today's city council
to ban this technology.

02:01:31.656 --> 02:01:34.330
Thank you very much.

02:01:35.800 --> 02:01:38.830
I believe, I don't know
if Emily is available,

02:01:38.830 --> 02:01:43.830
but I do see Jurell, Jurell
would you like to go?

02:01:50.861 --> 02:01:51.694
Thank you.

02:01:51.694 --> 02:01:54.330
Thank you, Boston City Council
for having this platform.

02:01:54.330 --> 02:01:56.170
I wanna thank you.

02:01:56.170 --> 02:01:58.680
Thank you and a shout out
to the expert advocates

02:01:58.680 --> 02:02:01.763
on the subject for shedding
light on the subject

02:02:01.763 --> 02:02:04.850
that me and many of us
are not fully versed in.

02:02:04.850 --> 02:02:07.800
What I am well versed in it though,

02:02:07.800 --> 02:02:09.710
is the reality surrounding

02:02:09.710 --> 02:02:12.070
the Boston Police Department's history

02:02:12.070 --> 02:02:14.546
and the negative impact that they have had

02:02:14.546 --> 02:02:17.370
on the black or brown
Bostonian's for decades.

02:02:17.370 --> 02:02:18.860
My name is Jurell Laronal,

02:02:18.860 --> 02:02:21.250
I'm a formerly incarcerated black man

02:02:21.250 --> 02:02:24.658
from a heavily police commerce
neighborhood of Dorchester.

02:02:24.658 --> 02:02:29.480
I'm a community organizer for
Families for Justice as Halen

02:02:29.480 --> 02:02:32.420
and I'm here to support the ordinance

02:02:32.420 --> 02:02:35.910
banning facial recognition
technology in Boston

02:02:35.910 --> 02:02:39.040
presented by councilors Wu and Arroyo.

02:02:39.040 --> 02:02:41.100
First, what are we talking about?

02:02:41.100 --> 02:02:43.880
We are talking about a force whose actions

02:02:43.880 --> 02:02:47.690
and racial profiling techniques
have been documented,

02:02:47.690 --> 02:02:50.550
tried in court and notoriously
known for targeting

02:02:50.550 --> 02:02:55.300
and terrorizing those from
my disinvested communities.

02:02:55.300 --> 02:03:00.202
We are talking about
militarization to intimidate,

02:03:00.202 --> 02:03:03.938
force their well on
black and brown citizens

02:03:03.938 --> 02:03:05.480
of the Commonwealth.

02:03:05.480 --> 02:03:08.260
A force by their own field interrogations

02:03:08.260 --> 02:03:09.270
and observation records,

02:03:09.270 --> 02:03:12.642
show almost 70% of them
were black residents

02:03:12.642 --> 02:03:16.160
in a city that's only around 25.2% black.

02:03:16.160 --> 02:03:19.422
So we're talking about
taking the same force

02:03:19.422 --> 02:03:21.580
and further funding them

02:03:21.580 --> 02:03:24.310
and equipping them with another weapon

02:03:24.310 --> 02:03:27.160
that would definitely be used
to further oppress, target

02:03:27.160 --> 02:03:30.170
and incarcerate our sons and fathers

02:03:30.170 --> 02:03:32.130
and daughters and mothers.

02:03:32.130 --> 02:03:34.580
My organization is currently
supporting the appeals

02:03:34.580 --> 02:03:38.004
and release efforts of black
men and their families,

02:03:38.004 --> 02:03:40.830
who have been incarcerated
since the seventies

02:03:40.830 --> 02:03:44.203
due to a racist profiling
and racist misidentification.

02:03:45.161 --> 02:03:48.520
When I think about racial
recognition software,

02:03:48.520 --> 02:03:51.380
which at best is predatory and inaccurate,

02:03:51.380 --> 02:03:54.680
I don't see a solution
and I don't see safety.

02:03:54.680 --> 02:03:56.900
I see yet another form of racial bias

02:03:56.900 --> 02:03:58.460
and another way of police

02:03:59.523 --> 02:04:00.356
to cause harm in my community.

02:04:01.310 --> 02:04:04.340
Today our city's historical
racial profiling issue

02:04:04.340 --> 02:04:06.780
with, somebody said it earlier,

02:04:06.780 --> 02:04:08.360
with the federal government study

02:04:08.360 --> 02:04:11.940
that the algorithm, my fault,

02:04:11.940 --> 02:04:15.005
failed to identify people of color

02:04:15.005 --> 02:04:17.733
and children and elderly and women.

02:04:18.821 --> 02:04:22.410
I see that it needs to be banned

02:04:22.410 --> 02:04:25.290
because we can't continue
condoning and reassuring

02:04:25.290 --> 02:04:29.320
and fueling other generations
of black and brown

02:04:29.320 --> 02:04:32.130
men and women from Dorchester
Roxbury and Mattapan,

02:04:32.130 --> 02:04:34.707
to more trauma and more incarceration.

02:04:34.707 --> 02:04:37.420
Investment in our communities

02:04:37.420 --> 02:04:39.270
through community led processes,

02:04:39.270 --> 02:04:41.430
is the only thing that we need,

02:04:41.430 --> 02:04:43.540
not facial recognition tech.

02:04:43.540 --> 02:04:45.960
Oh these bees are messing
with me, sorry about that.

02:04:45.960 --> 02:04:50.421
No matter what level that
technology reaches and thank you.

02:04:50.421 --> 02:04:51.330
That's all I have to say.

02:04:51.330 --> 02:04:52.530
I'm gonna keep it quick.

02:04:54.722 --> 02:04:55.727
Thank you very much.

02:04:55.727 --> 02:04:56.560
I really do appreciate it.

02:04:56.560 --> 02:04:58.000
And I think, again speak from the heart

02:04:58.000 --> 02:04:59.290
about their own experience

02:04:59.290 --> 02:05:02.070
and specifically talk about
how it would impact them,

02:05:02.070 --> 02:05:03.940
I do appreciate that.

02:05:03.940 --> 02:05:05.750
Not that I don't appreciate the experts

02:05:05.750 --> 02:05:07.210
but I'm telling you there's nothing better

02:05:07.210 --> 02:05:10.140
than hearing about how
residents are directly impacted.

02:05:10.140 --> 02:05:10.973
Thank you.

02:05:11.824 --> 02:05:16.824
I have also on the list, Cynthia Pades,

02:05:19.230 --> 02:05:20.955
I don't have a name,

02:05:20.955 --> 02:05:23.683
but I have an organization
called For the People Boston.

02:05:25.570 --> 02:05:27.220
I don't think we have either one.

02:05:28.571 --> 02:05:29.607
There is.

02:05:29.607 --> 02:05:33.163
Oh, I see a Marco, Marco Staminivich.

02:05:37.093 --> 02:05:39.343
Marco, ready to go?

02:05:41.710 --> 02:05:42.543
Marco!

02:05:43.480 --> 02:05:44.513
Sure.
Okay.

02:05:45.946 --> 02:05:48.970
How is it going everyone.

02:05:48.970 --> 02:05:51.900
Thank you to the council and the panelists

02:05:51.900 --> 02:05:53.720
for allowing me to speak.

02:05:53.720 --> 02:05:55.750
So I'm a machine learning engineer

02:05:55.750 --> 02:05:57.648
working in an adjacent field

02:05:57.648 --> 02:06:00.474
and a resident of Jamaica Plain

02:06:00.474 --> 02:06:02.873
and I'm here today as a private citizen.

02:06:02.873 --> 02:06:05.540
So this is my first time
speaking at a public hearing,

02:06:05.540 --> 02:06:07.493
so cut me some slack.

02:06:07.493 --> 02:06:09.380
Although I'm not an expert

02:06:09.380 --> 02:06:12.640
on service on the surveillance
aspect and the applications,

02:06:12.640 --> 02:06:17.640
I am familiar with the
technology aspect of this stuff.

02:06:18.800 --> 02:06:20.550
So I felt the need to testify today

02:06:20.550 --> 02:06:22.807
because of the gravity of this issue.

02:06:22.807 --> 02:06:27.613
Although the technology may
seem benign upon first glance,

02:06:28.867 --> 02:06:31.630
this is an extremely
powerful and dangerous tool.

02:06:31.630 --> 02:06:33.830
So to me this amounts to basically

02:06:33.830 --> 02:06:35.950
a form of digital stop and frisk,

02:06:35.950 --> 02:06:37.130
and it's even more dangerous

02:06:37.130 --> 02:06:39.800
since it can be kind
of constantly running,

02:06:39.800 --> 02:06:43.110
constantly working anywhere at all times,

02:06:43.110 --> 02:06:44.580
kind of tracking folks.

02:06:44.580 --> 02:06:46.280
This seems like a clear violation

02:06:46.280 --> 02:06:48.423
of the Fourth Amendment to me.

02:06:49.290 --> 02:06:52.420
As many commenters and
panelists today have noted,

02:06:52.420 --> 02:06:55.080
in addition, as many
folks have noted today,

02:06:55.080 --> 02:06:57.350
the technology is certainly not perfect

02:06:57.350 --> 02:06:59.970
and it's riddled with
biases based on the data

02:06:59.970 --> 02:07:02.300
that it was trained on
and how it was trained

02:07:02.300 --> 02:07:03.963
and by the folks that trained it.

02:07:04.800 --> 02:07:07.520
And although this is an
important thing to note,

02:07:07.520 --> 02:07:08.930
this would really be a moot point

02:07:08.930 --> 02:07:12.120
when evaluating these
technologies for deployment.

02:07:12.120 --> 02:07:15.190
Because while a poorly
functioning system is bad

02:07:15.190 --> 02:07:18.260
and introduces issues,

02:07:18.260 --> 02:07:21.270
a perfectly functioning system
would be much, much worse

02:07:21.270 --> 02:07:23.100
and would basically signal a world

02:07:23.100 --> 02:07:24.940
where we could be tracked out of hand

02:07:24.940 --> 02:07:28.150
at any time that police
or government wanted.

02:07:28.150 --> 02:07:32.260
So that's really what I wanted to say.

02:07:32.260 --> 02:07:37.140
And I wanted to kind of state my support

02:07:37.140 --> 02:07:41.487
for a ban on any type of
facial recognition technology

02:07:41.487 --> 02:07:44.210
for use by the police or the government.

02:07:44.210 --> 02:07:47.100
And that we should
disincentivize the research

02:07:47.100 --> 02:07:49.570
and development of, send clear signal

02:07:51.263 --> 02:07:52.730
to disincentivize the
research and development

02:07:52.730 --> 02:07:55.280
of these types of systems in the future.

02:07:55.280 --> 02:07:58.610
Thank you.

02:07:58.610 --> 02:08:00.070
Thank you, it was perfect on time,

02:08:00.070 --> 02:08:01.500
for the first time participating.

02:08:01.500 --> 02:08:02.470
We really appreciate it.

02:08:02.470 --> 02:08:04.806
I hope that this is not your last time.

02:08:04.806 --> 02:08:07.040
We are dealing with a
lot of different issues.

02:08:07.040 --> 02:08:09.853
Your voice is definitely
welcome, thank you so much.

02:08:11.510 --> 02:08:14.407
Up next I have,

02:08:14.407 --> 02:08:19.407
I'm gonna name Will Luckman
followed by Lizette Medina,

02:08:19.530 --> 02:08:23.151
and then also a Nathan
Sheard, I apologize again,

02:08:23.151 --> 02:08:24.930
if I mispronounce your name,

02:08:24.930 --> 02:08:27.360
feel free to just state your name again.

02:08:27.360 --> 02:08:29.180
For folks who have already testified,

02:08:29.180 --> 02:08:31.460
again, since we're over capacity,

02:08:31.460 --> 02:08:34.740
if you sign out and then watch on YouTube

02:08:34.740 --> 02:08:37.510
that allows for someone else
to get in line to also speak.

02:08:37.510 --> 02:08:39.680
So just letting you know that

02:08:39.680 --> 02:08:41.573
that's what we're trying to do.

02:08:42.455 --> 02:08:44.230
So I will now turn it over.

02:08:44.230 --> 02:08:45.870
I believe Will's ready to go.

02:08:45.870 --> 02:08:47.430
And you have two minutes Will.

02:08:48.350 --> 02:08:50.090
Thank you. good afternoon.

02:08:50.090 --> 02:08:52.259
My name is Will Luckman
and I serve as an organizer

02:08:52.259 --> 02:08:57.259
with the Surveillance Technology
Oversight Project or STOP

02:08:57.720 --> 02:08:59.940
and STOP advocates and litigate

02:08:59.940 --> 02:09:02.940
to fight discriminatory surveillance.

02:09:02.940 --> 02:09:04.790
Thank you councilors for
holding this hearing today

02:09:04.790 --> 02:09:07.624
and for proposing this crucial reform.

02:09:07.624 --> 02:09:11.040
Today, my oral remarks are an
excerpt of written testimony

02:09:11.040 --> 02:09:13.110
being entered into the record.

02:09:13.110 --> 02:09:16.830
Facial recognition is biased,
broken, and when it works

02:09:16.830 --> 02:09:19.430
antithetical to a democratic society.

02:09:19.430 --> 02:09:22.180
And crucially, without this ban,

02:09:22.180 --> 02:09:25.220
more people of color will be
wrongly stopped by the police

02:09:25.220 --> 02:09:27.280
at a moment when the
dangers of police encounters

02:09:27.280 --> 02:09:29.040
have never been clearer.

02:09:29.040 --> 02:09:30.940
The technology that
drives facial recognition

02:09:30.940 --> 02:09:33.423
is far more subjective than many realize.

02:09:34.443 --> 02:09:36.270
Artificial intelligence is the aggregation

02:09:36.270 --> 02:09:40.120
of countless human decisions
codified into algorithms.

02:09:40.120 --> 02:09:43.940
And as a result, human
bias can affect AI systems,

02:09:43.940 --> 02:09:46.950
including those that
supposedly recognize faces

02:09:46.950 --> 02:09:48.430
in countless ways.

02:09:48.430 --> 02:09:51.050
For example, if a security camera learns

02:09:51.050 --> 02:09:53.600
you are a suspicious looking,
using pictures of inmates,

02:09:53.600 --> 02:09:54.960
the photos will teach the AI

02:09:54.960 --> 02:09:58.810
to replicate the mass incarceration
of African-American men.

02:09:58.810 --> 02:10:01.990
In this way, AI can
learn to be just like us

02:10:01.990 --> 02:10:03.900
exacerbating structural discrimination

02:10:03.900 --> 02:10:06.290
against marginalized communities.

02:10:06.290 --> 02:10:07.270
As we've heard,

02:10:07.270 --> 02:10:10.240
even if facial recognition
worked without errors,

02:10:10.240 --> 02:10:11.940
even if it had no bias,

02:10:11.940 --> 02:10:14.070
the technology would
still remain antithetical

02:10:14.070 --> 02:10:16.420
to everything the city
of Boston believes in.

02:10:16.420 --> 02:10:18.690
Facial recognition
manufacturers are trying

02:10:18.690 --> 02:10:21.070
to create a system that
allows everyone to be tracked

02:10:21.070 --> 02:10:23.450
at every moment in perpetuity.

02:10:23.450 --> 02:10:25.520
Go to a protest, he system knows,

02:10:25.520 --> 02:10:28.460
go to a health facility,
it keeps a record.

02:10:28.460 --> 02:10:31.621
Suddenly Bostonians lose
the freedom of movement

02:10:31.621 --> 02:10:33.300
that is essential to an open society.

02:10:33.300 --> 02:10:35.230
If the city fails to act soon,

02:10:35.230 --> 02:10:38.200
it will only become
harder to enact reforms.

02:10:38.200 --> 02:10:41.260
Companies are pressuring local
state and federal agencies

02:10:41.260 --> 02:10:43.040
to adopt facial recognition tools.

02:10:43.040 --> 02:10:46.460
BriefCam, the software
powering Boston's surveillance

02:10:46.460 --> 02:10:49.300
camera network, has released a
new version of their software

02:10:49.300 --> 02:10:50.760
that would easily integrate

02:10:50.760 --> 02:10:52.900
invasive facial recognition tools.

02:10:52.900 --> 02:10:54.060
Although the commissioner

02:10:54.060 --> 02:10:56.700
says he will reevaluate
the new version on offer.

02:10:56.700 --> 02:10:58.800
He also expressed interest in waiting

02:10:58.800 --> 02:11:01.390
until the accuracy of
the technology improves

02:11:01.390 --> 02:11:05.430
or making exceptions for facial
recognition use right now.

02:11:05.430 --> 02:11:08.550
To definitively and
permanently avoid the issues

02:11:08.550 --> 02:11:11.320
with facial recognition
that I've raised here,

02:11:11.320 --> 02:11:13.703
we need comprehensive ban now.

02:11:13.703 --> 02:11:16.250
And I'll conclude on a personal note.

02:11:16.250 --> 02:11:17.580
I live and work in New York City,

02:11:17.580 --> 02:11:20.060
but I was born in Boston
and raised in Brooklyn,.

02:11:20.060 --> 02:11:23.240
it pains me to see the
current wave of protests

02:11:23.240 --> 02:11:24.073
roiling the area,

02:11:24.073 --> 02:11:25.160
because it demonstrates the bias

02:11:25.160 --> 02:11:27.030
and unequal law enforcement practices

02:11:27.030 --> 02:11:29.960
I remember from my youth,
have yet to be addressed.

02:11:29.960 --> 02:11:31.840
I know that the people of the Commonwealth

02:11:31.840 --> 02:11:33.220
want to see a change,

02:11:33.220 --> 02:11:36.100
and I believe that the
council is on their side.

02:11:36.100 --> 02:11:38.710
In practice, inaccuracies aside,

02:11:38.710 --> 02:11:41.270
facial recognition systems
lead to increased stops

02:11:41.270 --> 02:11:43.980
for people of color, increased stops means

02:11:43.980 --> 02:11:47.030
an increase in opportunity
for police violence and abuse.

02:11:47.030 --> 02:11:49.130
We must recognize that Black Lives Matter

02:11:49.130 --> 02:11:50.880
and to do so we must realize

02:11:50.880 --> 02:11:54.020
that technology doesn't
operate in a neutral vacuum.

02:11:54.020 --> 02:11:55.780
Instead it takes on the character

02:11:55.780 --> 02:11:57.960
of those building and deploying it.

02:11:57.960 --> 02:11:59.750
I encouraged the council to respond

02:11:59.750 --> 02:12:02.400
to their constituents
demands for police reform

02:12:02.400 --> 02:12:03.910
by immediately banning the use

02:12:05.460 --> 02:12:06.293
of this harmful technology in Boston.

02:12:07.219 --> 02:12:09.455
Thank you.
Thank you very much Will.

02:12:09.455 --> 02:12:10.433
Lizet Medina.

02:12:12.670 --> 02:12:15.485
Hi, good afternoon.

02:12:15.485 --> 02:12:18.850
My name is Lizet Medina, I'm
here as a private citizen.

02:12:18.850 --> 02:12:22.020
I actually am pretty new to all of this.

02:12:22.020 --> 02:12:23.618
This week I've found out

02:12:23.618 --> 02:12:26.422
from the Student Immigration Movement,

02:12:26.422 --> 02:12:28.000
kind of what's going on.

02:12:28.000 --> 02:12:32.210
And I just wanted to voice
my support for this ban.

02:12:32.210 --> 02:12:35.280
I think for personally, as an immigrant,

02:12:35.280 --> 02:12:38.720
and speaking toward like the presence

02:12:38.720 --> 02:12:41.340
of facial recognition
technology in the school system,

02:12:41.340 --> 02:12:43.779
I think especially where we
have so many conversations

02:12:43.779 --> 02:12:46.620
with like the school to prison pipeline.

02:12:46.620 --> 02:12:48.930
This tool could be used to facilitate

02:12:48.930 --> 02:12:53.430
that kind of work in racially profiling

02:12:53.430 --> 02:12:55.400
and profile of our students.

02:12:55.400 --> 02:12:57.920
And I think now more than ever,

02:12:57.920 --> 02:13:02.470
we have this point in
time a decision to make

02:13:02.470 --> 02:13:05.610
in protecting our residents of color,

02:13:05.610 --> 02:13:08.940
black and brown residents and students

02:13:08.940 --> 02:13:13.640
as they live in and try to
navigate the various systems

02:13:13.640 --> 02:13:15.410
that are already putting pressure on them.

02:13:15.410 --> 02:13:19.660
And so I think, especially
in light of recent events,

02:13:19.660 --> 02:13:22.530
this is really a stand to support

02:13:22.530 --> 02:13:24.721
residents of color in Boston,

02:13:24.721 --> 02:13:29.721
over possible pros that
could be looked at in this.

02:13:30.500 --> 02:13:32.720
And I also think it's troubling

02:13:32.720 --> 02:13:35.194
that the commissioner doesn't seem

02:13:35.194 --> 02:13:36.390
to be clear about What's
kind of going on with this.

02:13:36.390 --> 02:13:40.960
In addition that it also isn't clear

02:13:40.960 --> 02:13:45.680
that there is even a
surveillance of whether or not,

02:13:45.680 --> 02:13:48.030
this could be used already,
that kind of thing.

02:13:49.160 --> 02:13:50.350
So I think one, I'm just so thankful

02:13:51.255 --> 02:13:52.818
that this conversation is being had,

02:13:52.818 --> 02:13:54.280
that this is open to the public

02:13:54.280 --> 02:13:56.597
and that I just wanted to voice my concern

02:13:56.597 --> 02:13:59.957
for this being a tool for racial profiling

02:13:59.957 --> 02:14:03.170
and my support in the ban.

02:14:03.170 --> 02:14:04.440
Thank you.

02:14:04.440 --> 02:14:05.273
Very much.

02:14:06.500 --> 02:14:08.800
Next is Nathan Sheard.

02:14:08.800 --> 02:14:11.515
Again I apologize if I
mispronounced your name.

02:14:11.515 --> 02:14:12.970
You have two minutes Nathan, go ahead.

02:14:12.970 --> 02:14:15.770
No, you said it perfectly, thank you.

02:14:15.770 --> 02:14:17.270
So my name is Nathan Sheard

02:14:17.270 --> 02:14:19.020
and thank you for allowing me to speak

02:14:20.217 --> 02:14:21.050
on behalf of the Electronic
Frontier Foundation

02:14:22.075 --> 02:14:23.079
and our 30,000 members.

02:14:23.079 --> 02:14:24.554
The Electronic Frontier Foundation,

02:14:24.554 --> 02:14:25.470
strongly supports legislation

02:14:25.470 --> 02:14:27.300
that bans government
agencies and employees

02:14:27.300 --> 02:14:29.200
from using face surveillance technology.

02:14:29.200 --> 02:14:31.699
We thank the sponsors of this ordinance

02:14:31.699 --> 02:14:33.876
for their attention to
this critical issue.

02:14:33.876 --> 02:14:36.170
Face surveillance is profoundly
dangerous for many reasons.

02:14:36.170 --> 02:14:38.080
First, in tracking our faces,

02:14:38.080 --> 02:14:40.690
a unique marker that we can not change,

02:14:40.690 --> 02:14:42.380
it invades our privacy.

02:14:42.380 --> 02:14:45.170
Second, government use of the
technology in public places

02:14:45.170 --> 02:14:46.660
will chill people from engaging

02:14:46.660 --> 02:14:48.400
First Amendment protected activity.

02:14:48.400 --> 02:14:50.920
Research shows and courts
have long recognized

02:14:50.920 --> 02:14:52.377
that government surveillance

02:14:52.377 --> 02:14:54.810
and the First Amendment
activity has a deterrent effect.

02:14:54.810 --> 02:14:56.880
Third surveillance
technologies have an unfair,

02:14:56.880 --> 02:15:00.000
disparate impact against
people of color, immigrants

02:15:00.000 --> 02:15:01.840
and other vulnerable populations.

02:15:01.840 --> 02:15:04.250
Watch lists are frequently over-inclusive,

02:15:04.250 --> 02:15:06.060
error riddled and used in conjunction

02:15:06.060 --> 02:15:08.110
with powerful mathematical algorithms,

02:15:08.110 --> 02:15:10.360
which often amplify bias.

02:15:10.360 --> 02:15:12.400
Thus space surveillance is so dangerous

02:15:12.400 --> 02:15:15.830
that governments must not use it at all.

02:15:15.830 --> 02:15:17.450
We support the aims of this ordinance

02:15:17.450 --> 02:15:19.820
and respectfully seek three amendments

02:15:19.820 --> 02:15:22.352
to show that the bill will appropriately

02:15:22.352 --> 02:15:23.280
protect the rights of Boston residents.

02:15:23.280 --> 02:15:25.620
First, the bill has an
exemption for evidence

02:15:25.620 --> 02:15:27.050
generated by face of bills

02:15:27.050 --> 02:15:29.430
that relates to investigation of crime.

02:15:29.430 --> 02:15:31.840
If that respectfully ask that'd be amended

02:15:31.840 --> 02:15:34.913
to prohibit the use of face
surveillance enabled evidence

02:15:34.913 --> 02:15:37.770
generated by or at the request

02:15:37.770 --> 02:15:40.800
of the Boston Police Department
or any Boston official.

02:15:40.800 --> 02:15:42.720
Second, the private right of action

02:15:42.720 --> 02:15:45.850
does not provide the shipping
for a prevailing plaintiff.

02:15:45.850 --> 02:15:47.010
Without such fee shipping,

02:15:47.010 --> 02:15:50.210
the only private enforcers
will be advocacy organizations

02:15:50.210 --> 02:15:51.640
and wealthy individuals.

02:15:51.640 --> 02:15:54.960
You have to be eff respectfully
ask that the language

02:15:54.960 --> 02:15:57.800
be included toward
reasonable attorney fees

02:15:57.800 --> 02:15:59.510
to a prevailing plaintiff.

02:15:59.510 --> 02:16:01.610
Third, the ban extends to private sector

02:16:01.610 --> 02:16:04.630
use of face surveillance conducted
with a government permit.

02:16:04.630 --> 02:16:08.230
The better approach as
Kade has offered earlier,

02:16:08.230 --> 02:16:13.230
is to use face surveillance is used only

02:16:16.210 --> 02:16:18.210
with informed opt-in consent.

02:16:18.210 --> 02:16:20.320
Thus you have to respectfully requests

02:16:20.320 --> 02:16:21.730
that the language be limited

02:16:21.730 --> 02:16:24.000
to prohibiting private sector permitting

02:16:24.000 --> 02:16:25.720
for the use of face
surveillance recognition

02:16:25.720 --> 02:16:27.560
at the government's request.

02:16:27.560 --> 02:16:30.640
And closing EFF, once again
thanks to the sponsors.

02:16:30.640 --> 02:16:32.915
Look forward to seeing an ordinance pass

02:16:32.915 --> 02:16:34.260
that bans government use of
face surveillance in Boston

02:16:34.260 --> 02:16:36.740
and will enthusiastically
support the ordinance banning

02:16:36.740 --> 02:16:38.780
face recognition technology in Boston,

02:16:38.780 --> 02:16:40.880
if it is amended in these ways, thank you.

02:16:41.830 --> 02:16:43.700
Nathan, I just wanna make sure I notes

02:16:43.700 --> 02:16:44.700
on your suggestions.

02:16:46.161 --> 02:16:47.250
And I wanna make sure you had three,

02:16:47.250 --> 02:16:49.423
which is the ban that used by the BPB,

02:16:49.423 --> 02:16:52.865
no exemptions, period.

02:16:52.865 --> 02:16:56.630
Two, that currently because [indistinct]

02:16:56.630 --> 02:16:58.660
doesn't allow for fee
shifting our attorney fees,

02:16:58.660 --> 02:17:01.000
it really does put it
on either individuals

02:17:01.000 --> 02:17:04.280
to take it on their own
without having any kind of,

02:17:04.280 --> 02:17:08.710
I guess partner care or
support that helps be funded.

02:17:08.710 --> 02:17:11.990
And then three to extend
to private actors,

02:17:11.990 --> 02:17:14.251
essentially down the supply chain

02:17:14.251 --> 02:17:15.660
where the city of Boston
can tell private actors

02:17:15.660 --> 02:17:17.711
that contract with us.

02:17:17.711 --> 02:17:21.013
Because one of the reasons
I am always saying this,

02:17:21.013 --> 02:17:23.560
one of the issues is how far we can go.

02:17:23.560 --> 02:17:25.130
I mean, we can't regulate Facebook,

02:17:25.130 --> 02:17:27.220
but we can regulate where money goes.

02:17:27.220 --> 02:17:28.903
So I'm assuming spot that.

02:17:29.930 --> 02:17:32.140
Yeah, so just to reiterate,

02:17:32.140 --> 02:17:35.080
so the First Amendment
that we would suggest

02:17:35.080 --> 02:17:37.393
is that in right now,

02:17:38.359 --> 02:17:40.210
there's an exclusion
for forever for evidence

02:17:40.210 --> 02:17:41.940
and Kade spoke earlier

02:17:41.940 --> 02:17:43.600
to the fact that that's in reference to,

02:17:43.600 --> 02:17:45.150
if they receive something
from the federal government

02:17:45.150 --> 02:17:46.630
or one to post or what have you.

02:17:46.630 --> 02:17:48.970
But to make sure that it's amended

02:17:48.970 --> 02:17:50.867
to tighten that up a bit and say that,

02:17:50.867 --> 02:17:54.500
as long as that
information isn't requested

02:17:54.500 --> 02:17:56.780
or created at the request
of the Boston police forums,

02:17:56.780 --> 02:17:57.830
that's the first one.

02:17:58.995 --> 02:17:59.993
The second one is the fee shipping.

02:18:00.911 --> 02:18:01.970
So that it's not just the EFF and the ACLU

02:18:01.970 --> 02:18:04.591
and wealthy individuals
that have the power

02:18:04.591 --> 02:18:06.700
to make sure that it's enforced.

02:18:06.700 --> 02:18:08.810
So folks can find
attorneys to support them

02:18:08.810 --> 02:18:12.350
because the attorneys will
be compensated for that time.

02:18:12.350 --> 02:18:14.050
And finally, on the third.

02:18:14.050 --> 02:18:16.450
And I think that this speaks
to your greater question,

02:18:16.450 --> 02:18:20.276
right now it's it prohibits
the offering of a permit

02:18:20.276 --> 02:18:25.095
to a private company, agency
person, what have you,

02:18:25.095 --> 02:18:27.270
whereas we would tightened up to say that

02:18:27.270 --> 02:18:29.150
that a permit could be provided

02:18:29.150 --> 02:18:31.448
as long it wasn't being provided

02:18:31.448 --> 02:18:34.432
for face surveillance to
be collected at the behest

02:18:34.432 --> 02:18:38.090
or at the request of the
Boston Police Department.

02:18:38.090 --> 02:18:38.990
So really making sure

02:18:38.990 --> 02:18:41.534
that we're speaking back to the fact

02:18:41.534 --> 02:18:44.340
that like private use
would be better protected

02:18:44.340 --> 02:18:46.050
by something similar to

02:18:46.050 --> 02:18:48.470
the Biometric Information
Privacy Act in Illinois

02:18:48.470 --> 02:18:52.260
that requires; informed,
opt-in and concept

02:18:52.260 --> 02:18:53.380
from the individual,

02:18:53.380 --> 02:18:55.135
rather than simply saying

02:18:55.135 --> 02:18:56.643
that no private doctor can do space.

02:18:58.400 --> 02:18:59.607
Thank you.

02:18:59.607 --> 02:19:01.416
That was a great clarification.

02:19:01.416 --> 02:19:03.576
I'm gonna go now to our next speakers.

02:19:03.576 --> 02:19:05.490
Thank you very much.

02:19:05.490 --> 02:19:10.490
I have a Sabrina Barosso,
Elmeda and Christina Vasquez.

02:19:13.290 --> 02:19:17.263
So if we have.

02:19:18.470 --> 02:19:20.970
Hi folks, thank you so much.

02:19:20.970 --> 02:19:23.580
Just to let folks know,
Christina is not with us.

02:19:23.580 --> 02:19:26.610
Some folks had to leave
because they have to work,

02:19:26.610 --> 02:19:29.120
but so hi everyone, hi city councilors.

02:19:29.120 --> 02:19:30.690
My name is Sabrina Barroso.

02:19:30.690 --> 02:19:33.870
I am the lead organizer for
the Student Immigrant Movement.

02:19:33.870 --> 02:19:36.870
The first undocumented
immigrant youth led organization

02:19:36.870 --> 02:19:38.570
in the state of Massachusetts.

02:19:38.570 --> 02:19:40.920
We believe that all
young people are powerful

02:19:40.920 --> 02:19:42.920
and that when you are
supported and have space

02:19:42.920 --> 02:19:43.900
and investment to grow,

02:19:43.900 --> 02:19:46.121
they flourished into the
leaders of today and tomorrow.

02:19:46.121 --> 02:19:48.800
At SIM, we are invested in protecting

02:19:48.800 --> 02:19:50.930
and working on behalf of
the undocumented youth

02:19:50.930 --> 02:19:53.018
and for families of Massachusetts.

02:19:53.018 --> 02:19:55.140
That's why I'm here with you all today

02:19:55.140 --> 02:19:56.150
and I would like to make clear

02:19:56.150 --> 02:19:59.476
that we must prohibit the
use of facial recognition,

02:19:59.476 --> 02:20:01.670
technology and software
in the city of Boston.

02:20:01.670 --> 02:20:03.740
For far too long the
Boston Police Department

02:20:03.740 --> 02:20:06.880
has been allowed to have full flexibility

02:20:06.880 --> 02:20:10.030
and freewill over how the police
and surveil our communities

02:20:10.030 --> 02:20:11.855
and the consequences are devastating.

02:20:11.855 --> 02:20:15.290
Our people are being criminalized
and funneled into prisons,

02:20:15.290 --> 02:20:17.330
detention and deportation.

02:20:17.330 --> 02:20:19.630
We need full community
control over the police.

02:20:19.630 --> 02:20:22.255
And this is a key move to
bringing power to our people.

02:20:22.255 --> 02:20:24.420
Right now, there are no laws

02:20:24.420 --> 02:20:27.000
that control what the BPD
can purchase for surveillance

02:20:27.000 --> 02:20:29.300
or how they use it and
when I learned this,

02:20:29.300 --> 02:20:31.730
I was scared because I
thought about the history

02:20:31.730 --> 02:20:34.280
between the BPD and families like mine.

02:20:34.280 --> 02:20:36.219
And I thought about the people that I love

02:20:36.219 --> 02:20:39.300
and that the people I care about.

02:20:39.300 --> 02:20:41.590
And I thought about the people
who are constantly harassed

02:20:41.590 --> 02:20:44.660
and targeted by law enforcement
simply for existing.

02:20:44.660 --> 02:20:45.640
So if you ask me,

02:20:45.640 --> 02:20:47.730
facial recognition is not to be trusted

02:20:48.757 --> 02:20:50.319
in the hands of law enforcement,

02:20:50.319 --> 02:20:51.950
that tracks, monitors, hyper surveils,

02:20:51.950 --> 02:20:53.490
black and brown communities,

02:20:53.490 --> 02:20:55.640
and that puts immigrants and activists,

02:20:55.640 --> 02:20:59.903
youth under constant
scrutiny and criminalization.

02:20:59.903 --> 02:21:02.830
Councilors, would you really
trust a police department

02:21:02.830 --> 02:21:04.715
that shares information to I.C.E?

02:21:04.715 --> 02:21:07.890
That's share student
information to I.C.E as well.

02:21:07.890 --> 02:21:10.220
That has led to the
deportation of students

02:21:10.220 --> 02:21:13.899
that exchange emails saying
happy hunting with I.C.E.

02:21:13.899 --> 02:21:16.060
And that has historically targeted

02:21:16.060 --> 02:21:19.130
black and brown youth to
invade their personal space,

02:21:19.130 --> 02:21:22.153
their bodies and their
privacy with stop and frisk.

02:21:22.153 --> 02:21:24.950
There is not a shame to separate youth

02:21:24.950 --> 02:21:27.160
from their and their families
from their communities

02:21:27.160 --> 02:21:30.480
and then end up pinning,
injustices and crimes on us.

02:21:30.480 --> 02:21:33.980
The BPD says that they don't
use spatial surveillance now,

02:21:33.980 --> 02:21:35.650
but they have access to it.

02:21:35.650 --> 02:21:39.058
And they have a $414
million budget to buy it.

02:21:39.058 --> 02:21:41.390
Right now, our communities need access

02:21:41.390 --> 02:21:43.977
to funding for healthcare,
housing and so many other things

02:21:43.977 --> 02:21:45.340
and the list goes on.

02:21:45.340 --> 02:21:47.550
For years, residents of
Boston have been demanding

02:21:47.550 --> 02:21:49.410
to fund things that truly matter to them

02:21:49.410 --> 02:21:51.300
and we have to invest in things

02:21:51.300 --> 02:21:53.810
that are not face surveillance
that doesn't even work

02:21:53.810 --> 02:21:56.210
and is irrelevant to
keeping our community safe.

02:21:56.210 --> 02:21:59.799
We must invest in intentional
restorative justice practices,

02:21:59.799 --> 02:22:02.520
healthcare, mental health and resources

02:22:02.520 --> 02:22:04.580
to prevent violence and distress.

02:22:04.580 --> 02:22:07.010
Facial surveillance would
end privacy as we know it

02:22:07.010 --> 02:22:09.493
and completely throw off the balance

02:22:09.493 --> 02:22:11.160
and power between people
and their government.

02:22:11.160 --> 02:22:13.400
Listen to youth and
listening to our community,

02:22:13.400 --> 02:22:16.320
and let's follow the lead of young people

02:22:16.320 --> 02:22:18.700
who are addressing the deeper issue

02:22:18.700 --> 02:22:20.510
of what is to criminalize our people

02:22:20.510 --> 02:22:23.180
and putting the power in
the hands of the people,

02:22:23.180 --> 02:22:26.180
especially when it comes
to governing surveillance.

02:22:26.180 --> 02:22:27.760
Thank you all so much.

02:22:27.760 --> 02:22:28.917
Thank you very much

02:22:28.917 --> 02:22:30.716
and it'S like Christina's
not available, Sabrina.

02:22:30.716 --> 02:22:33.533
Yeah, she's not available.

02:22:33.533 --> 02:22:38.533
Okay, Ismleda.

02:22:41.620 --> 02:22:46.620
I'm Ismleda and a member of
the City Media Movements.

02:22:48.890 --> 02:22:50.640
Today I'm here to testify in support

02:22:50.640 --> 02:22:53.258
of ban in facial recognition
technology in Boston.

02:22:53.258 --> 02:22:56.200
This will establish a
ban of government use

02:22:56.200 --> 02:22:58.370
of face surveillance
in the city of Boston.

02:22:58.370 --> 02:23:01.950
Boston must pass this
ordinance to join Springfield,

02:23:01.950 --> 02:23:04.880
Somerville, Cambridge,
Brooklyn and North Hampton

02:23:04.880 --> 02:23:07.453
in protecting racial justice
and freedom of speech.

02:23:07.453 --> 02:23:10.998
The feather of study
published in December 2019,

02:23:10.998 --> 02:23:13.355
found that face recognition algorithms

02:23:13.355 --> 02:23:15.410
are much more likely to fail

02:23:15.410 --> 02:23:17.737
when attempted to identify
the faces of people of color,

02:23:17.737 --> 02:23:20.400
children, the elderly and women.

02:23:20.400 --> 02:23:22.921
That means that technology
only reliably works

02:23:22.921 --> 02:23:26.758
on middle aged white men.

02:23:26.758 --> 02:23:29.800
It very small fraction
of busters precedents.

02:23:31.077 --> 02:23:33.060
As a citizen of Boston,

02:23:33.060 --> 02:23:35.260
it is clear to me that
this type of technology

02:23:35.260 --> 02:23:37.230
is not okay to use in our communities.

02:23:37.230 --> 02:23:39.270
The fact that this technology

02:23:39.270 --> 02:23:42.840
is used to control specifically
in communities of color,

02:23:42.840 --> 02:23:45.600
makes my family and me feel unsafe,

02:23:45.600 --> 02:23:46.833
as well as the other families

02:23:46.833 --> 02:23:48.630
that live within this communities.

02:23:48.630 --> 02:23:51.850
Black and brown kids
are put into databases

02:23:51.850 --> 02:23:55.290
that are used against them
without redness or reason.

02:23:55.290 --> 02:23:57.570
This interrupts our education
and limits our future.

02:23:57.570 --> 02:23:59.870
Kids shouldn't be criminalized
or feeling unsafe.

02:23:59.870 --> 02:24:03.120
Black and brown kids should
be able to walk on the street

02:24:03.120 --> 02:24:07.250
without the fear of knowing
what's going to happen.

02:24:07.250 --> 02:24:09.873
And it shows how this surveillance

02:24:09.873 --> 02:24:12.387
is used to target black
and brown communities.

02:24:12.387 --> 02:24:14.530
The racial profiling in technology

02:24:14.530 --> 02:24:17.430
is one of the many forms
of systematic racism.

02:24:17.430 --> 02:24:20.730
Immigrant youth in this
city do not trust the police

02:24:20.730 --> 02:24:23.490
because we know that they
are very close with I.C.E.

02:24:23.490 --> 02:24:26.507
We know that they sent a
student information to I.C.E,

02:24:26.507 --> 02:24:30.317
and this has led to the
deportation of junk people

02:24:30.317 --> 02:24:32.565
and pains our communities.

02:24:32.565 --> 02:24:34.982
[indistinct]

02:24:40.320 --> 02:24:45.320
BPD, cameras with surveillance
and criminalization of us.

02:24:45.450 --> 02:24:46.700
It's not right.

02:24:46.700 --> 02:24:48.290
Everyone on the council at some point

02:24:48.290 --> 02:24:50.440
has talked about supporting young people

02:24:52.068 --> 02:24:53.080
and young people being our future leaders.

02:24:53.080 --> 02:24:54.060
We are leaders right now,

02:24:54.060 --> 02:24:57.640
we are telling you to do
what everyone knows is right.

02:24:57.640 --> 02:25:00.250
By preventing the use of facial
recognition surveillance,

02:25:00.250 --> 02:25:03.490
we can do more to protect
immigrant families in Boston.

02:25:03.490 --> 02:25:05.080
Stop selling youth and families out.

02:25:05.080 --> 02:25:07.132
Let's give power to people

02:25:07.132 --> 02:25:09.130
and take this first step in
addressing the problem we have

02:25:09.130 --> 02:25:10.460
with law enforcement surveillance

02:25:10.460 --> 02:25:12.760
and criminalization or people
by surveillance system.

02:25:12.760 --> 02:25:13.940
Thank you very much

02:25:15.154 --> 02:25:17.350
Next up, the next group
of folks we have are,

02:25:17.350 --> 02:25:22.350
Sherlandy Pardieu, Eli Harmon,
Natalie Diaz and Jose Gomez.

02:25:27.900 --> 02:25:30.080
So is Sherlandy available.

02:25:32.380 --> 02:25:36.243
I see that person in
the waiting room, sorry.

02:25:47.372 --> 02:25:50.289
well, we'll go ahead and go to Eli.

02:25:53.002 --> 02:25:55.360
I think I see right now, ready to go

02:25:55.360 --> 02:25:58.993
and then we'll come back to Sherlandy,

02:26:00.200 --> 02:26:02.118
Eli you have two minutes.

02:26:02.118 --> 02:26:03.500
Oh, thank you so much.

02:26:03.500 --> 02:26:04.550
Oh, who's speaking?

02:26:05.559 --> 02:26:06.980
oh, sorry, this is Eli.

02:26:06.980 --> 02:26:08.290
Okay, very well.

02:26:08.290 --> 02:26:09.310
Thank you so much.

02:26:09.310 --> 02:26:11.642
My name is Eli Harmon,
I live in Mission Hill.

02:26:11.642 --> 02:26:15.350
I've been doing work with the
Student Immigrant Movement.

02:26:15.350 --> 02:26:18.160
I'm testifying on behalf of them today,

02:26:18.160 --> 02:26:20.010
in support of the ordinance.

02:26:20.010 --> 02:26:21.250
The issue of police surveillance

02:26:21.250 --> 02:26:23.000
is enormously important to people

02:26:23.000 --> 02:26:24.760
all across the city of Boston

02:26:24.760 --> 02:26:27.720
though it's of particular
concern to communities of color,

02:26:27.720 --> 02:26:29.710
which it overwhelmingly targets.

02:26:29.710 --> 02:26:31.470
A study done by MIT research

02:26:31.470 --> 02:26:33.250
showed this type of
surveillance technology

02:26:33.250 --> 02:26:35.370
would be far less accurate
for people of color.

02:26:35.370 --> 02:26:39.680
And in fact, it was inaccurate
for 35% of black women

02:26:39.680 --> 02:26:43.160
and was most accurate for white adult men.

02:26:43.160 --> 02:26:45.844
Law enforcement today, already of course,

02:26:45.844 --> 02:26:48.960
overwhelmingly targets
black and brown communities.

02:26:48.960 --> 02:26:50.010
And this type of technology

02:26:50.010 --> 02:26:52.581
is likely to only make
this more severe case.

02:26:52.581 --> 02:26:54.570
Additionally this type of technology

02:26:54.570 --> 02:26:56.943
is a complete violation
of people's privacy.

02:26:56.943 --> 02:26:58.730
There are no regulations with regard

02:26:58.730 --> 02:27:00.150
to the extent to which law enforcement

02:27:00.150 --> 02:27:01.600
can use this technology.

02:27:01.600 --> 02:27:03.530
And it has been used as an abuse of power

02:27:03.530 --> 02:27:05.680
by government officials in
order to track down immigrants,

02:27:05.680 --> 02:27:07.900
people of color and activists.

02:27:07.900 --> 02:27:09.540
Finally, lots of money goes into funding

02:27:09.540 --> 02:27:10.700
this surveillance technology,

02:27:10.700 --> 02:27:12.430
and for the reasons previously stated

02:27:12.430 --> 02:27:15.680
this technology in no way
keeps our communities safe

02:27:15.680 --> 02:27:17.370
and the money that currently funds it,

02:27:17.370 --> 02:27:19.030
could be put into much better places,

02:27:19.030 --> 02:27:21.030
such as creating
affordable housing for all,

02:27:21.030 --> 02:27:23.539
fully funding the Boston public schools,

02:27:23.539 --> 02:27:27.060
creating equitable healthcare

02:27:27.060 --> 02:27:29.550
and other places which
would actually be effective

02:27:29.550 --> 02:27:31.003
in bringing down crime rates.

02:27:32.300 --> 02:27:34.720
Many cities that neighbor
Boston, including Somerville,

02:27:34.720 --> 02:27:36.730
Brooklyn, Cambridge and Springfield,

02:27:36.730 --> 02:27:39.060
have chosen to ban facial surveillance

02:27:39.060 --> 02:27:41.240
because they understand
that it is dangerous

02:27:41.240 --> 02:27:43.030
and harmful to communities of color.

02:27:43.030 --> 02:27:44.407
It is a violation of people's privacy

02:27:44.407 --> 02:27:48.240
and that money currently being
used to fund that technology

02:27:48.240 --> 02:27:50.060
would be better spent in places

02:27:50.060 --> 02:27:52.420
that actually improve lives in Boston.

02:27:52.420 --> 02:27:53.908
For these reasons,

02:27:53.908 --> 02:27:55.070
I asked the council to pass a prohibition

02:27:55.070 --> 02:27:57.600
of the use of facial
recognition surveillance

02:27:57.600 --> 02:27:59.130
and give the community control

02:27:59.130 --> 02:28:00.910
over surveillance technology and usage.

02:28:00.910 --> 02:28:02.340
Thank you so much.

02:28:02.340 --> 02:28:04.237
Thank you very much.

02:28:04.237 --> 02:28:06.473
I do see Sherlandy

02:28:08.867 --> 02:28:10.470
I'm here.

02:28:10.470 --> 02:28:12.547
Okay, you have two minutes Sherlandy.

02:28:19.540 --> 02:28:22.690
I am writing on behalf of SIM
in support of the ordinance

02:28:22.690 --> 02:28:25.490
banning facial recognition
technology in Boston.

02:28:25.490 --> 02:28:28.280
I urge my city of Boston
to pass this ordinance

02:28:28.280 --> 02:28:30.250
to join other cities in Massachusetts,

02:28:30.250 --> 02:28:33.270
like Springfield, Somerville,
Cambridge, Brooklyn

02:28:33.270 --> 02:28:36.370
and Northern and putting
the community power

02:28:36.370 --> 02:28:37.840
before the police.

02:28:37.840 --> 02:28:40.370
The city of Boston,
the residents, families

02:28:40.370 --> 02:28:42.510
and youth from Boston,
deserve transparency,

02:28:42.510 --> 02:28:44.230
respect and control.

02:28:44.230 --> 02:28:46.424
A ban on facial surveillance technology

02:28:46.424 --> 02:28:48.218
is important in the city of Boston

02:28:48.218 --> 02:28:50.298
because this technology is dangerous

02:28:50.298 --> 02:28:54.116
and it leads to serious
mistrust in the community.

02:28:54.116 --> 02:28:57.703
Face surveillance is
proven to be less accurate

02:28:57.703 --> 02:29:01.040
for people of darker skin.

02:29:01.040 --> 02:29:04.379
Black people already face extreme levels

02:29:04.379 --> 02:29:06.370
of police violence and harassment.

02:29:06.370 --> 02:29:09.075
The racial bias and face surveillance

02:29:09.075 --> 02:29:11.420
will put lives in danger.

02:29:11.420 --> 02:29:13.730
But even if accurate,

02:29:13.730 --> 02:29:15.930
we should still be doing all that we can

02:29:15.930 --> 02:29:19.730
to avoid a future where every
time we go to the doctor,

02:29:19.730 --> 02:29:22.340
a place of worship or protest,

02:29:22.340 --> 02:29:23.920
the government is scanning our face

02:29:23.920 --> 02:29:26.060
and recording our movements.

02:29:26.060 --> 02:29:27.780
We already know that law enforcement

02:29:27.780 --> 02:29:30.830
is constantly sharing
and misusing information.

02:29:30.830 --> 02:29:32.600
What would happen to our people

02:29:32.600 --> 02:29:35.250
when we are already under
constant surveillance

02:29:35.250 --> 02:29:37.150
and criminalization.

02:29:37.150 --> 02:29:38.540
Using face surveillance,

02:29:38.540 --> 02:29:40.630
the government could begin to identify

02:29:40.630 --> 02:29:44.350
and keep a list of every
person at a protests.

02:29:44.350 --> 02:29:45.774
People who are driving

02:29:45.774 --> 02:29:48.530
or who are walking the
street every single day

02:29:48.530 --> 02:29:52.520
across the city on a
ongoing automatic basis,

02:29:52.520 --> 02:29:54.850
it would keep the same
harmful surveillance going,

02:29:54.850 --> 02:29:57.940
like what happened with the
use of [indistinct] database.

02:29:57.940 --> 02:30:01.633
It would criminalize anyone
to make a move in our city.

02:30:06.403 --> 02:30:09.550
If we want this city to be safe,

02:30:09.550 --> 02:30:12.340
we need to put our
money where our mouth is

02:30:12.340 --> 02:30:16.210
and invest in practice
such as restorative justice

02:30:16.210 --> 02:30:18.310
to help restore or community.

02:30:18.310 --> 02:30:20.476
Facial surveillance is not the answer.

02:30:20.476 --> 02:30:23.580
If anything, it is distracting

02:30:23.580 --> 02:30:26.540
or addressing our real concern

02:30:26.540 --> 02:30:28.610
about safety in our communities.

02:30:28.610 --> 02:30:31.980
I urge you to prohibit the
use of facial surveillance

02:30:31.980 --> 02:30:34.490
in the city of Boston,

02:30:34.490 --> 02:30:38.130
because we cannot allow law
enforcement to target black

02:30:38.130 --> 02:30:42.270
and brown immigrants, activists
and community members.

02:30:42.270 --> 02:30:43.820
Thank you so much for your time.

02:30:43.820 --> 02:30:44.980
Thank you very much.

02:30:44.980 --> 02:30:47.102
I want to say thank
you to all of the youth

02:30:47.102 --> 02:30:51.430
who have testified and
will testify at SIM,

02:30:51.430 --> 02:30:53.740
all those folks showing up, you are...

02:30:53.740 --> 02:30:55.150
I just wanna say thank you so much

02:30:55.150 --> 02:30:57.858
on behalf of the city
council, you're our future

02:30:57.858 --> 02:30:59.680
and you're doing an amazing job.

02:30:59.680 --> 02:31:03.030
I have a Natalie Diaz and then Jose Gomez.

02:31:03.030 --> 02:31:06.670
I see the Emily Reif
who had signed up before

02:31:06.670 --> 02:31:08.670
might also be available.

02:31:08.670 --> 02:31:10.420
So those next three names,

02:31:10.420 --> 02:31:12.473
I think Natalie may no longer be with us.

02:31:15.110 --> 02:31:17.860
Okay, is Jose available?

02:31:17.860 --> 02:31:20.120
Yes.
CHAIR: Two minutes.

02:31:21.300 --> 02:31:22.210
Hi everyone.

02:31:22.210 --> 02:31:26.930
I'm here on behalf of
SIM to testify in favor

02:31:26.930 --> 02:31:30.337
of the ban on facial
recognition software in Boston.

02:31:30.337 --> 02:31:33.830
I am an MIT alumni,

02:31:33.830 --> 02:31:35.760
working as a software engineer in Boston

02:31:35.760 --> 02:31:38.660
and I'm a DACA recipient as well.

02:31:38.660 --> 02:31:41.491
And I wanted to tell you for your time

02:31:41.491 --> 02:31:43.438
that as a software engineer working in AI

02:31:43.438 --> 02:31:44.750
and machine learning, enabled robots,

02:31:44.750 --> 02:31:46.780
that the software use
for facial recognition

02:31:46.780 --> 02:31:48.053
is far from perfect.

02:31:49.090 --> 02:31:51.716
In fact, as Joy found
in others have noted,

02:31:51.716 --> 02:31:53.940
one in three black women is likely

02:31:53.940 --> 02:31:56.080
to be misclassified by technology.

02:31:56.080 --> 02:31:58.170
And our own federal government has found

02:31:58.170 --> 02:32:00.050
that the face recognition algorithms

02:32:00.050 --> 02:32:01.110
were more likely to fail

02:32:01.110 --> 02:32:03.715
when attempting to identify
faces of people of color,

02:32:03.715 --> 02:32:06.176
children, elderly and women.

02:32:06.176 --> 02:32:10.090
This software after all
is written by people.

02:32:10.090 --> 02:32:12.736
And this is inherently filled
with mistakes and bias,

02:32:12.736 --> 02:32:16.630
despite the detailed
quality assurance processes

02:32:16.630 --> 02:32:18.970
or production level software undergoes.

02:32:18.970 --> 02:32:21.830
This is an accepted fact
in software industry,

02:32:21.830 --> 02:32:23.540
no matter how good your software is

02:32:23.540 --> 02:32:25.350
or the testing process is,

02:32:25.350 --> 02:32:27.434
bugs in the software will always exist.

02:32:27.434 --> 02:32:30.780
Consequently, the use of
facial recognition technology

02:32:30.780 --> 02:32:33.640
by government entities
especially the police departments

02:32:33.640 --> 02:32:35.830
must be banned as a consequence of errors

02:32:35.830 --> 02:32:38.460
in the technology or if life and death.

02:32:38.460 --> 02:32:41.510
The false identification by
a facial recognition software

02:32:41.510 --> 02:32:43.853
could lead to an unwarranted confrontation

02:32:43.853 --> 02:32:45.810
with the police department.

02:32:45.810 --> 02:32:48.320
The seemingly small error in
facial recognition software

02:32:48.320 --> 02:32:50.140
may not mean much to you,

02:32:50.140 --> 02:32:54.150
but as an undocumented
immigrant and a person of color,

02:32:54.150 --> 02:32:56.040
any confrontation with the police

02:32:56.040 --> 02:32:58.123
could mean deportation or even my life.

02:32:59.066 --> 02:33:02.130
The police have a record
of systemic racial bias

02:33:02.130 --> 02:33:04.410
leading into the deaths
of thousands of people.

02:33:04.410 --> 02:33:06.880
Government entities, special police forces

02:33:06.880 --> 02:33:09.800
do not need any more tools
to further their racial bias

02:33:09.800 --> 02:33:12.609
and consequently there's
a stomach murdering

02:33:12.609 --> 02:33:13.980
of the very people
they're meant to protect.

02:33:13.980 --> 02:33:15.460
I encourage you to press pause

02:33:15.460 --> 02:33:17.767
on these face surveillance
by government entities

02:33:17.767 --> 02:33:21.503
in the city of Boston, by
supporting this crucial ban.

02:33:24.127 --> 02:33:28.620
Thank you very much, after
Jose I think we had...

02:33:33.080 --> 02:33:38.080
After Jose we had Emily,
Emily Reif has rejoined us.

02:33:38.300 --> 02:33:42.173
She was part of the original
first set we called, Emily.

02:33:45.270 --> 02:33:46.680
EMILY: Hello, sorry.

02:33:46.680 --> 02:33:48.530
Can you hear me?
Yep, two minutes.

02:33:49.621 --> 02:33:53.151
Sorry about that, I was
having internet issues.

02:33:53.151 --> 02:33:55.000
So my name is Emily Reif

02:33:55.000 --> 02:33:57.390
and I work at a machine
learning research at Google.

02:33:57.390 --> 02:33:58.430
Although of course my views are my own

02:33:58.430 --> 02:34:00.490
and I'm here as a citizen.

02:34:00.490 --> 02:34:02.060
Yeah, I strongly support the ban

02:34:02.060 --> 02:34:03.857
on facial recognition technology

02:34:03.857 --> 02:34:05.860
and many people have said similar things

02:34:05.860 --> 02:34:09.398
to what I'm about to say
and much better words.

02:34:09.398 --> 02:34:13.079
I just wanted to reiterate on...

02:34:13.079 --> 02:34:14.850
Even when working correctly,

02:34:14.850 --> 02:34:17.119
there are so many major privacy

02:34:17.119 --> 02:34:20.220
with these technologies and by definition,

02:34:20.220 --> 02:34:22.020
they're designed to track
us wherever and whenever

02:34:22.020 --> 02:34:26.000
we're in public spaces and
to aggregate this information

02:34:26.000 --> 02:34:28.070
and having those kinds
of extreme surveillance

02:34:28.070 --> 02:34:30.930
is not only kind of horrifying
at a personal level,

02:34:30.930 --> 02:34:32.590
but it will also fundamentally change

02:34:32.590 --> 02:34:34.380
the way that we go about our daily lives

02:34:34.380 --> 02:34:36.620
and operate as a democratic society.

02:34:36.620 --> 02:34:40.000
And others have already cited
some of the research on this.

02:34:40.000 --> 02:34:42.956
It's a well-documented
phenomenon, not a good one.

02:34:42.956 --> 02:34:47.100
And so that's all about
facial recognition technology

02:34:47.100 --> 02:34:48.080
when it's working perfectly.

02:34:48.080 --> 02:34:50.810
But again, as people have noted

02:34:50.810 --> 02:34:53.160
that's so far from the truth.

02:34:53.160 --> 02:34:55.530
Yeah, there's a ton of
research on this by the ACLU,

02:34:55.530 --> 02:34:58.574
and Joy who spoke earlier

02:34:58.574 --> 02:35:00.720
and I've seen this in my own research.

02:35:00.720 --> 02:35:03.834
Our team's research is
related to these areas.

02:35:03.834 --> 02:35:08.313
That these models are just
totally not reliable for data

02:35:08.313 --> 02:35:10.100
that is different than
what they're trained on.

02:35:10.100 --> 02:35:13.060
And that these inaccuracy
don't make it any less,

02:35:13.060 --> 02:35:15.570
I mean, one might say
like, oh, so it makes it,

02:35:15.570 --> 02:35:17.840
potentially less dangerous,
but it makes it much,

02:35:17.840 --> 02:35:20.770
much more dangerous when the inaccuracy

02:35:20.770 --> 02:35:22.240
has just reinforced the biases,

02:35:22.240 --> 02:35:24.180
that disparities that
have always been there

02:35:24.180 --> 02:35:26.410
in the way that different
groups are surveyed

02:35:26.410 --> 02:35:28.793
and policed and incarcerated.

02:35:28.793 --> 02:35:32.908
And we saw with, with
Briana Hiller's death

02:35:32.908 --> 02:35:35.460
that thinking that you're attacking

02:35:35.460 --> 02:35:36.800
or that you're entering the right house,

02:35:36.800 --> 02:35:38.930
and if you are wrong about that,

02:35:38.930 --> 02:35:42.770
there's just horrible, an
unspeakable consequences

02:35:42.770 --> 02:35:47.770
And yeah, we can't possibly risk that

02:35:47.800 --> 02:35:49.900
and that's not a road we should remotely

02:35:49.900 --> 02:35:52.123
think about going down, thank you.

02:35:53.812 --> 02:35:55.830
That's perfectly on time.

02:35:55.830 --> 02:35:58.920
I'm just gonna go down the list

02:35:58.920 --> 02:36:03.920
and also call on Christian
De Leon, Clara Ruis,

02:36:10.720 --> 02:36:13.193
Diana Serrano and Oliver De Leon.

02:36:20.253 --> 02:36:22.560
Are those folks are available.

02:36:22.560 --> 02:36:23.443
I see Christian.

02:36:27.851 --> 02:36:29.500
Christian you may start,
you have two minutes.

02:36:30.754 --> 02:36:33.935
[indistinct]

02:36:33.935 --> 02:36:36.330
You have to turn off one
computer and on your phone

02:36:36.330 --> 02:36:38.951
or something, you're
gonna have to turn off

02:36:38.951 --> 02:36:39.784
one of the devices.

02:36:39.784 --> 02:36:41.230
CHRISTIAN: Can you hear me fine now?

02:36:41.230 --> 02:36:42.480
Much better, thank you.

02:36:45.450 --> 02:36:47.988
CHRISTIAN: My name is Christian De Leon,

02:36:47.988 --> 02:36:49.752
I'm here today as a member

02:36:49.752 --> 02:36:50.585
of the Student Immigrant Movement

02:36:51.628 --> 02:36:53.320
in support of banning facial
recognition in Boston.

02:36:53.320 --> 02:36:56.280
Face surveillance is not only
a huge invasion of privacy,

02:36:56.280 --> 02:36:58.580
but in the wrong hands can be used

02:36:58.580 --> 02:37:00.680
to even further oppress minorities.

02:37:00.680 --> 02:37:03.350
It can be used to track
immigrants, protestors,

02:37:03.350 --> 02:37:07.410
and inaccurate when tracking
people of darker complexion.

02:37:07.410 --> 02:37:09.650
As we know, this can be very problematic

02:37:09.650 --> 02:37:12.080
since these tools target these communities

02:37:12.080 --> 02:37:14.190
through racial profiling already.

02:37:14.190 --> 02:37:17.160
Having surveillance tools
like facial recognition

02:37:17.160 --> 02:37:19.730
will contribute to an even
greater systemic oppression.

02:37:19.730 --> 02:37:23.400
There's also has no business
being in our schools.

02:37:23.400 --> 02:37:26.286
To my knowledge, some
schools are already investing

02:37:26.286 --> 02:37:28.210
in face recognition software

02:37:28.210 --> 02:37:31.240
and are investing millions
in this new technology,

02:37:31.240 --> 02:37:32.960
and for what exactly?

02:37:32.960 --> 02:37:34.840
To track their students every move?

02:37:34.840 --> 02:37:38.620
I believe school should
spend that time and money

02:37:38.620 --> 02:37:41.800
on bettering their school
and education systems,

02:37:41.800 --> 02:37:44.680
rather than spending it
on software and tools

02:37:44.680 --> 02:37:47.970
that will no way improve
students' ability to be educated.

02:37:47.970 --> 02:37:50.040
We are already living in a time

02:37:50.040 --> 02:37:52.840
where technology can do scary things

02:37:52.840 --> 02:37:54.870
and the last thing we need

02:37:54.870 --> 02:37:57.915
are people watching our every
move on a day-to-day basis.

02:37:57.915 --> 02:37:59.210
During this pandemic,

02:37:59.210 --> 02:38:00.950
we have grown accustomed to wearing masks

02:38:00.950 --> 02:38:02.751
and covering our faces in public,

02:38:02.751 --> 02:38:05.380
well, if we now have facial recognition

02:38:05.380 --> 02:38:06.800
on every street corner,

02:38:06.800 --> 02:38:10.040
then this temporary thing
the world has adapted to

02:38:10.040 --> 02:38:11.610
may just become permanent.

02:38:11.610 --> 02:38:13.730
Not only to protect our own privacy,

02:38:13.730 --> 02:38:16.510
but to not be falsely accused of crimes

02:38:16.510 --> 02:38:18.796
due to falsely recognition software.

02:38:18.796 --> 02:38:22.760
2020 has had a great display
of racism and brutality

02:38:22.760 --> 02:38:23.940
against people of color,

02:38:23.940 --> 02:38:25.590
particularly the black community,

02:38:25.590 --> 02:38:28.531
and I fear that systems such
as facial recognition software

02:38:28.531 --> 02:38:30.417
in the hands of law enforcement,

02:38:30.417 --> 02:38:33.000
can just be another tool
they use against us.

02:38:33.000 --> 02:38:35.680
Thank you for listening to my concerns.

02:38:35.680 --> 02:38:37.480
Thank you very much.

02:38:37.480 --> 02:38:38.313
Clara Ruiz.

02:38:43.480 --> 02:38:45.050
CLARA: Hello.
Hello.

02:38:45.050 --> 02:38:47.200
You have two minutes Clara.

02:38:49.330 --> 02:38:50.400
CLARA] : Thank you so much.

02:38:50.400 --> 02:38:53.770
My name is Clara Ruiz and
I'm writing in support

02:38:53.770 --> 02:38:57.000
of the ordinance banning
facial recognition technology

02:38:57.000 --> 02:39:00.210
in Boston presented by
councilor Wu and Arroyo.

02:39:00.210 --> 02:39:02.920
This ordinance establish
a ban on government use

02:39:02.920 --> 02:39:05.240
of face surveillance
in the city of Boston.

02:39:05.240 --> 02:39:07.840
Boston must pass this
ordinance to join Springfield,

02:39:07.840 --> 02:39:10.170
Somerville, Cambridge,
Brooklyn, North Hampton

02:39:10.170 --> 02:39:13.333
in protecting racial justice
privacy, and freedom of speech.

02:39:13.333 --> 02:39:17.233
This mattered to me because
I'm a member of the BIPOCC,

02:39:19.520 --> 02:39:22.392
Black Indigenous and
People of Color Community.

02:39:22.392 --> 02:39:23.380
And this is allowing for the community

02:39:23.380 --> 02:39:25.580
to increase in racial biases.

02:39:25.580 --> 02:39:28.200
This technology does not
protect constitutional rights

02:39:28.200 --> 02:39:32.111
and values, including
privacy in an immediate

02:39:32.111 --> 02:39:35.330
[indistinct]

02:39:35.330 --> 02:39:37.970
appropriate speech and
association, equal protection

02:39:37.970 --> 02:39:40.740
and government accountability
in transparency.

02:39:40.740 --> 02:39:43.120
And the government must be
aware of the technical limits

02:39:43.120 --> 02:39:45.800
of even the most
promising new technologies

02:39:45.800 --> 02:39:47.870
in the release of relying
on computer system

02:39:47.870 --> 02:39:49.520
that can be prone to error.

02:39:49.520 --> 02:39:50.930
Facial recognition is creeping

02:39:50.930 --> 02:39:53.090
into more and more law
enforcement agencies,

02:39:53.090 --> 02:39:55.030
but later notice or oversight.

02:39:55.030 --> 02:39:57.860
And there are practically
no laws regulating

02:39:57.860 --> 02:40:00.400
this investive surveillance technology.

02:40:00.400 --> 02:40:02.730
Meanwhile, ongoing technical limitations

02:40:02.730 --> 02:40:05.010
to the accuracy of facial recognition

02:40:05.010 --> 02:40:07.469
create serious problems
like misidentification

02:40:07.469 --> 02:40:09.570
and public safety risk.

02:40:09.570 --> 02:40:11.910
I refuse to sit back and
put my community on the risk

02:40:11.910 --> 02:40:15.500
than it already is.

02:40:15.500 --> 02:40:17.120
These surveillance technologies

02:40:17.120 --> 02:40:21.210
are intentionally set up to
the disadvantage of brown

02:40:22.430 --> 02:40:24.420
and color people, communities.

02:40:24.420 --> 02:40:26.780
It has a better success rate
when it comes to white males,

02:40:26.780 --> 02:40:29.150
meaning this technology is a unreliable

02:40:29.150 --> 02:40:30.750
and it will do more harm,

02:40:30.750 --> 02:40:33.020
if we don't ban the surveillance tool.

02:40:33.020 --> 02:40:36.820
This technology will allow
for misidentification

02:40:36.820 --> 02:40:40.210
to purposely happen against
black and brown people.

02:40:40.210 --> 02:40:42.840
A ban on face surveillance technology

02:40:42.840 --> 02:40:44.940
is critically important
in the city of Boston

02:40:44.940 --> 02:40:47.170
because we need to keep
the community safe,

02:40:47.170 --> 02:40:48.920
because all life matters.

02:40:48.920 --> 02:40:51.150
A federal government government's study

02:40:51.150 --> 02:40:53.480
published in December 2019,

02:40:53.480 --> 02:40:55.330
conduct face recognition algorithms

02:40:55.330 --> 02:40:56.730
were most likely to fail

02:40:56.730 --> 02:41:00.360
when attempting to identify
the faces of people of color,

02:41:00.360 --> 02:41:03.270
children, elderly and woman.

02:41:03.270 --> 02:41:07.290
That means the test only reliably works

02:41:07.290 --> 02:41:08.820
on middle aged white men.

02:41:08.820 --> 02:41:11.450
If really a small fraction
of Boston residents,

02:41:11.450 --> 02:41:14.590
I encourage you to pass to press pause

02:41:14.590 --> 02:41:17.550
on the use of face surveillance
by government entities

02:41:20.250 --> 02:41:21.420
in the city of Boston,

02:41:21.420 --> 02:41:23.920
by supporting and
passing this crucial ban.

02:41:23.920 --> 02:41:26.520
We cannot allow Boston
to adopt authoritarian,

02:41:26.520 --> 02:41:30.100
unregulated, bias surveillance technology.

02:41:30.100 --> 02:41:32.317
Thank you for the opportunity to testify.

02:41:32.317 --> 02:41:34.250
And the way, Diana Serrano,

02:41:34.250 --> 02:41:36.333
is also gonna be testifying through this.

02:41:38.720 --> 02:41:40.830
Diana you have two minutes.

02:41:40.830 --> 02:41:43.310
DIANA: Okay, hello, my
name is Diana Serrano,

02:41:43.310 --> 02:41:44.920
good evening.

02:41:44.920 --> 02:41:47.680
I'm writing on behalf of SIM
in support of the ordinance

02:41:47.680 --> 02:41:50.490
banning facial recognition
technology in Boston.

02:41:50.490 --> 02:41:53.400
I urge my city of Boston
to pass this ordinance

02:41:53.400 --> 02:41:55.780
to join Springfield,
Somerville, Cambridge, Brooklyn

02:41:55.780 --> 02:41:58.400
and North Hampton in
protecting racial justice,

02:41:58.400 --> 02:42:01.223
privacy and freedom of speech.

02:42:01.223 --> 02:42:02.880
It is our duty as a free and just city,

02:42:02.880 --> 02:42:06.260
to ban technology like facial recognition.

02:42:06.260 --> 02:42:08.400
As a victim of social media hacking,

02:42:08.400 --> 02:42:11.701
I've seen how technology could
be used as a tool to defame

02:42:11.701 --> 02:42:14.180
and criminalize with pictures

02:42:14.180 --> 02:42:17.380
that feel like proof to the viewers.

02:42:17.380 --> 02:42:19.185
As a teacher and civilian,

02:42:19.185 --> 02:42:22.170
I refuse to allow those in my community

02:42:22.170 --> 02:42:24.660
to be exposed to a highly problematic

02:42:24.660 --> 02:42:27.540
and technology like facial recognition.

02:42:27.540 --> 02:42:29.850
Not only is privacy important

02:42:29.850 --> 02:42:32.470
and should be valued
by our law enforcement,

02:42:32.470 --> 02:42:35.400
face surveillance is
proven to be less accurate

02:42:35.400 --> 02:42:37.470
for people with darker skin.

02:42:37.470 --> 02:42:39.710
With the high levels of
racial discrimination

02:42:39.710 --> 02:42:41.740
forced on our black and brown communities

02:42:41.740 --> 02:42:43.270
by law enforcement.

02:42:43.270 --> 02:42:45.260
The racial bias in face surveillance

02:42:45.260 --> 02:42:48.960
will put lives in danger even
further than they already are.

02:42:48.960 --> 02:42:50.850
A ban on face surveillance technology

02:42:50.850 --> 02:42:53.140
is critically important
in the city of Boston

02:42:53.140 --> 02:42:55.523
because that technology
really is only reliable

02:42:55.523 --> 02:42:58.623
for a very small fraction
of the population.

02:42:58.623 --> 02:43:01.660
It's highly important
to me to live in a city

02:43:01.660 --> 02:43:04.380
where it is critical for
leaders to keep our city

02:43:04.380 --> 02:43:05.910
and its people safe.

02:43:05.910 --> 02:43:08.921
Although it may seem as
though facial recognition

02:43:08.921 --> 02:43:12.119
could maybe keep us safer, it
has proven do the opposite.

02:43:12.119 --> 02:43:16.100
I urge you to press pause on
the use of facial surveillance

02:43:16.100 --> 02:43:18.750
by government entities
and the city of Boston

02:43:18.750 --> 02:43:21.210
by supporting and passing the crucial ban.

02:43:21.210 --> 02:43:23.180
We cannot allow Boston to adopt

02:43:23.180 --> 02:43:26.830
authoritarian, unregulated,
bias surveillance technology.

02:43:26.830 --> 02:43:29.685
Thank you for your
attention, Diana Serrano.

02:43:29.685 --> 02:43:31.660
Thank you very much.

02:43:31.660 --> 02:43:36.660
Oliver De Leon, you have two minute.

02:43:37.763 --> 02:43:40.300
OLIVER: Hi, my name is Oliver

02:43:40.300 --> 02:43:42.820
and I live in Jamaica Plain.

02:43:42.820 --> 02:43:45.670
And I was undocumented when I attended

02:43:45.670 --> 02:43:48.360
the Boston public schools
in early nineties.

02:43:48.360 --> 02:43:53.040
So yes, it's a while back, so
I became a citizen in 2016.

02:43:54.359 --> 02:43:57.110
I look back on my days in high school

02:43:57.110 --> 02:43:59.378
while contemplating this new technology,

02:43:59.378 --> 02:44:04.378
facial recognition and I
can sincerely tell you that

02:44:04.860 --> 02:44:08.390
it terrified me the
thought of having somebody

02:44:08.390 --> 02:44:11.127
access this technology without
my consent acknowledge.

02:44:11.127 --> 02:44:14.040
I don't know if this would have allowed me

02:44:14.040 --> 02:44:16.950
to finish school at that time.

02:44:16.950 --> 02:44:19.020
And it would have been hard

02:44:19.020 --> 02:44:22.441
to even finish possibly higher education.

02:44:22.441 --> 02:44:24.000
Without that education,

02:44:24.000 --> 02:44:27.840
I wouldn't have been able
to secure job opportunities

02:44:27.840 --> 02:44:30.540
like I have now with a paying job

02:44:30.540 --> 02:44:32.800
that helps me provide for my family.

02:44:32.800 --> 02:44:35.410
So we started thinking about that.

02:44:35.410 --> 02:44:38.320
We start see seeing how
this facial recognition

02:44:38.320 --> 02:44:41.470
can actually have a negative impact

02:44:41.470 --> 02:44:44.483
in the education of our
youth and our future.

02:44:44.483 --> 02:44:47.555
People already talk, how are the U.S.

02:44:47.555 --> 02:44:49.610
is already riddled with racial bias,

02:44:49.610 --> 02:44:54.030
and this software is just
giving people already empowered

02:44:54.030 --> 02:44:56.310
a tool to discriminate even more.

02:44:56.310 --> 02:45:00.086
For example, I.C.E has already
shown up in the protests

02:45:00.086 --> 02:45:02.300
and detained a few people.

02:45:02.300 --> 02:45:04.130
Now we have to ask ourselves

02:45:04.130 --> 02:45:08.220
how the heck do they
pick out these few people

02:45:08.220 --> 02:45:11.310
in the thousands of protesters?

02:45:11.310 --> 02:45:13.300
I mean, one can only speculate,

02:45:13.300 --> 02:45:14.700
but one of the few answers

02:45:14.700 --> 02:45:17.100
can be facial recognition software.

02:45:17.100 --> 02:45:18.060
Do we not have it?

02:45:18.060 --> 02:45:19.200
Do they have it?

02:45:19.200 --> 02:45:21.300
How can we show that they're not using it?

02:45:21.300 --> 02:45:24.580
Well, it's pretty hard to pick
out two or three individuals

02:45:24.580 --> 02:45:27.201
out of a thousands and thousands

02:45:27.201 --> 02:45:29.018
and thousands of protestors.

02:45:29.018 --> 02:45:31.816
So it's up to us to kind
of speculate what that is.

02:45:31.816 --> 02:45:35.250
The Coronavirus has caused major epidemic.

02:45:35.250 --> 02:45:38.503
The police brutality has
caused major epidemic.

02:45:38.503 --> 02:45:40.550
I guess we have to ask ourselves,

02:45:40.550 --> 02:45:44.010
are you allowing the
next epidemic to happen?

02:45:44.010 --> 02:45:44.843
Maybe.

02:45:45.678 --> 02:45:47.810
Banning facial recognition
in the city of Boston

02:45:47.810 --> 02:45:52.061
will bring us to be in the
middle of the next battle.

02:45:52.061 --> 02:45:56.260
And which side do we wanna be on?

02:45:56.260 --> 02:45:58.630
Let's not approve this software.

02:45:58.630 --> 02:46:01.026
I urge you to to ban facial
recognition technology

02:46:01.026 --> 02:46:03.267
as it also affects our youth.

02:46:03.267 --> 02:46:07.730
We do not need a system or software

02:46:07.730 --> 02:46:09.440
that can pick up individuals

02:46:09.440 --> 02:46:11.340
and potentially erroneously

02:46:11.340 --> 02:46:14.890
accuse them of something
that they haven't done.

02:46:14.890 --> 02:46:18.000
Will the next death is
caused by your choice today.

02:46:18.000 --> 02:46:19.790
Let's hope not, thank you.

02:46:19.790 --> 02:46:22.104
Thank you, thank you very much.

02:46:22.104 --> 02:46:23.970
It's 10 to six.

02:46:23.970 --> 02:46:28.430
I'm going to have to stop
sharing at six o'clock.

02:46:28.430 --> 02:46:32.610
That only means that I will
be turning over the gavel

02:46:32.610 --> 02:46:35.380
to the one of the lead sponsors,

02:46:35.380 --> 02:46:36.543
Michelle Wu at six o'clock.

02:46:37.522 --> 02:46:39.264
But I'm gonna call the
next names of individuals

02:46:39.264 --> 02:46:43.120
who are in line and have
signed up to speak before I go.

02:46:43.120 --> 02:46:44.540
And we'll continue chair.

02:46:44.540 --> 02:46:49.540
I've got an Angel, Michelle
Raj Mon, Leon Smith,

02:46:51.164 --> 02:46:56.164
Amy van der Hiel, excuse me,
Julie McNulty and Zachary Lawn.

02:47:00.060 --> 02:47:01.823
So is the Angel available?

02:47:02.730 --> 02:47:03.563
ANGEL: Yes.

02:47:05.330 --> 02:47:08.263
Hello everyone, thank
you for being here today.

02:47:09.537 --> 02:47:10.683
Thank you.

02:47:14.219 --> 02:47:19.219
ANGEL: My name is Angel
and I am in fresh grade

02:47:19.411 --> 02:47:24.411
and go to a Boston public school.

02:47:26.700 --> 02:47:28.530
I am seven years old.

02:47:28.530 --> 02:47:32.360
To me surveillance means
people watching you

02:47:32.360 --> 02:47:34.500
without even knowing.

02:47:34.500 --> 02:47:36.310
I would feel frustrated

02:47:36.310 --> 02:47:41.310
because I do not want anyone watching me,

02:47:42.760 --> 02:47:47.760
especially if I'm home
at school or at a park.

02:47:48.775 --> 02:47:53.775
Facial recognition is
when they see your face

02:47:54.195 --> 02:47:58.810
and know all the details,

02:47:58.810 --> 02:48:01.870
but this does not work for everyone

02:48:01.870 --> 02:48:06.180
because most police do not like people

02:48:06.180 --> 02:48:09.740
who are not their skin color.

02:48:09.740 --> 02:48:13.250
This tool is not going to be equal

02:48:13.250 --> 02:48:18.250
to people who are black,
Latino, immigrants and more,

02:48:20.490 --> 02:48:23.677
it can get the wrong person.

02:48:27.349 --> 02:48:32.349
I am young, as I get older,
I will not look the same.

02:48:33.320 --> 02:48:38.320
I am seven now and when I turned
13, I will look different.

02:48:38.650 --> 02:48:42.250
When I turn 18, I will look different.

02:48:42.250 --> 02:48:45.670
I get older and my face changes.

02:48:45.670 --> 02:48:50.052
If these tools are used new
school, I will not feel safe.

02:48:50.052 --> 02:48:52.970
We are just children.

02:48:52.970 --> 02:48:57.300
Our teachers are already
taking care and watching us.

02:48:57.300 --> 02:49:00.078
We do not need police watching us.

02:49:00.078 --> 02:49:03.963
Thank you SIM, for your love and support.

02:49:07.413 --> 02:49:08.246
Well, I have to say,

02:49:08.246 --> 02:49:12.424
I think you're the youngest
person that's testified ever.

02:49:12.424 --> 02:49:15.580
And in anything I've ever shared,

02:49:15.580 --> 02:49:17.050
or I had that participation,

02:49:17.050 --> 02:49:18.290
I know we're all on Zoom,

02:49:18.290 --> 02:49:21.120
but I will give you a round of applause.

02:49:21.120 --> 02:49:22.550
Thank you so much.

02:49:22.550 --> 02:49:25.798
That was absolutely beautiful,
very powerful testimony.

02:49:25.798 --> 02:49:28.430
We're so proud of you.

02:49:28.430 --> 02:49:31.010
Your city council and
city are so proud of you.

02:49:31.010 --> 02:49:34.266
Thank you so much for
your testimony Angel.

02:49:34.266 --> 02:49:38.530
I'm going to now call on,

02:49:38.530 --> 02:49:41.225
I don't think I see Michelle or Leon

02:49:41.225 --> 02:49:43.563
and don't share them either.

02:49:45.020 --> 02:49:49.020
Okay, so I see Amy, who
was we called earlier?

02:49:49.020 --> 02:49:52.269
So Amy, you have two minutes

02:49:52.269 --> 02:49:54.510
and you get to follow the
cutest seven-year-old ever.

02:49:54.510 --> 02:49:56.700
[Lydia laughs]

02:49:56.700 --> 02:49:57.533
Go ahead,

02:49:58.930 --> 02:49:59.763
you're on mute.

02:50:02.120 --> 02:50:05.127
Thank you, I applaud
her testimony entirely.

02:50:05.127 --> 02:50:07.470
Thank you madam chairwoman and the council

02:50:07.470 --> 02:50:10.009
for hearing our testimony,
I'll be very brief.

02:50:10.009 --> 02:50:13.670
I just wanted to say my
name is Amy van der Hiel.

02:50:13.670 --> 02:50:15.140
I live in Roslindale

02:50:15.140 --> 02:50:18.203
and I support the ban on
face surveillance, thank you.

02:50:19.100 --> 02:50:21.040
Thank you very much, Michelle.

02:50:21.040 --> 02:50:25.369
I have a Michelle Raj Mon and
I see that Michelle Barrios.

02:50:25.369 --> 02:50:26.202
Are you...

02:50:26.202 --> 02:50:28.170
Okay, that was the mistake.

02:50:28.170 --> 02:50:30.850
Very well then, Michelle
you have two minutes.

02:50:30.850 --> 02:50:31.683
That's okay.

02:50:33.230 --> 02:50:38.045
And I also am not following
Angel as a bit much.

02:50:38.045 --> 02:50:39.980
So hello.

02:50:39.980 --> 02:50:41.610
My name is Michelle Barrios

02:50:41.610 --> 02:50:44.550
and I am a social studies
teacher in the Boston area.

02:50:44.550 --> 02:50:46.630
And today I am here speaking on behalf

02:50:46.630 --> 02:50:48.467
of the Student Immigrant Movement,

02:50:48.467 --> 02:50:50.580
myself as an educator

02:50:50.580 --> 02:50:54.050
and on the behalf of my
diverse student population.

02:50:54.050 --> 02:50:56.580
I am speaking in support of the ordinance

02:50:56.580 --> 02:50:59.440
banning facial recognition
technology in Boston,

02:50:59.440 --> 02:51:02.170
presented by councilors Wu and Arroyo.

02:51:02.170 --> 02:51:04.820
This ordinance established
a ban on government use

02:51:04.820 --> 02:51:07.720
of facial surveillance
in the city of Boston.

02:51:07.720 --> 02:51:10.490
Boston must pass this
ordinance to join Springfield,

02:51:10.490 --> 02:51:14.050
Somerville, excuse me,
Springfield, Somerville,

02:51:14.050 --> 02:51:16.680
Cambridge, Brooklyn and North Hampton

02:51:16.680 --> 02:51:19.930
in protecting racial justice,
privacy and freedom of speech.

02:51:19.930 --> 02:51:23.560
In my training as a
social studies teacher,

02:51:23.560 --> 02:51:25.510
I became increasingly aware of the trauma

02:51:25.510 --> 02:51:27.110
that students of color develop

02:51:27.988 --> 02:51:30.040
as they grow in a society

02:51:30.040 --> 02:51:32.680
that seeks to police them on
the basis of their ethnicity,

02:51:32.680 --> 02:51:35.180
economic status and place of residence.

02:51:35.180 --> 02:51:38.450
This trauma is exacerbated
when a young person

02:51:38.450 --> 02:51:40.010
comes from an immigrant family,

02:51:40.010 --> 02:51:41.380
the status in this country,

02:51:41.380 --> 02:51:44.150
places them at risk of family separation,

02:51:44.150 --> 02:51:47.840
a loss of education and a
stripping of basic human rights.

02:51:47.840 --> 02:51:51.130
We know that students struggle
to succeed academically

02:51:51.130 --> 02:51:54.440
when they face these
daily existential traumas,

02:51:54.440 --> 02:51:57.660
which in essence is a
violation of their rights

02:51:57.660 --> 02:51:59.730
in the U.S. to pursue survival,

02:51:59.730 --> 02:52:03.060
let alone social mobility
and a future of stability.

02:52:03.060 --> 02:52:05.750
In addition to my training
and work as an educator,

02:52:05.750 --> 02:52:08.270
I am the wife of a Latino immigrants

02:52:08.270 --> 02:52:11.660
and the mother of two
of my sisters children,

02:52:11.660 --> 02:52:13.100
while I am a white Latina

02:52:13.100 --> 02:52:15.170
and I can live under the
presumption of innocence

02:52:15.170 --> 02:52:16.350
due to my white privilege,

02:52:16.350 --> 02:52:19.090
I've witnessed firsthand what
it means to live in a society

02:52:19.090 --> 02:52:22.440
that has not yet made good
on its promise of equality,

02:52:22.440 --> 02:52:24.380
liberty, and justice for all.

02:52:24.380 --> 02:52:26.360
My husband is followed in stores,

02:52:26.360 --> 02:52:28.810
teachers hesitate to
release our children to him

02:52:28.810 --> 02:52:30.080
when they first meet him

02:52:30.080 --> 02:52:32.170
and he has been asked for
his immigration status

02:52:32.170 --> 02:52:35.500
by customers in his place of work.

02:52:35.500 --> 02:52:39.340
We are in the fortunate
position to know that his life

02:52:39.340 --> 02:52:41.700
and our family can count
on his permanent residency

02:52:41.700 --> 02:52:43.800
to keep us together for now.

02:52:43.800 --> 02:52:47.100
However, I cannot say the
same for many Latin X families

02:52:47.100 --> 02:52:48.750
in the greater Boston area,

02:52:48.750 --> 02:52:50.830
a ban on face surveillance technology

02:52:50.830 --> 02:52:53.270
is critically important
in the city of Boston

02:52:53.270 --> 02:52:56.465
because this surveillance
harms our privacy

02:52:56.465 --> 02:52:58.000
and our freedom of speech,

02:52:58.000 --> 02:53:01.120
a fundamental right in our constitution.

02:53:01.120 --> 02:53:03.650
This type of surveillance
threatens to create a world

02:53:03.650 --> 02:53:05.680
where people are watched and identified

02:53:05.680 --> 02:53:07.820
as they exercise their right to protest,

02:53:07.820 --> 02:53:10.000
congregate at places of worship

02:53:10.000 --> 02:53:12.730
and visit medical providers,

02:53:12.730 --> 02:53:14.650
as they go about their daily lives.

02:53:14.650 --> 02:53:15.810
For my students of color,

02:53:15.810 --> 02:53:18.220
specifically the young
men growing up in a world

02:53:18.220 --> 02:53:21.757
that still cannot fully accept
that their lives matter,

02:53:26.270 --> 02:53:28.870
face surveillance technology is not only

02:53:28.870 --> 02:53:30.470
another threat to their lives,

02:53:30.470 --> 02:53:32.530
but a response saying
to these young people,

02:53:32.530 --> 02:53:34.590
you still don't matter.

02:53:34.590 --> 02:53:37.060
I teach world history as well
as comparative government

02:53:37.060 --> 02:53:40.380
and politics, and when I
teach about authoritarianism,

02:53:40.380 --> 02:53:43.410
I teach about the impact
on marginalized groups

02:53:43.410 --> 02:53:46.162
in countries that are still
considered developing.

02:53:46.162 --> 02:53:50.330
I teach that in these free countries

02:53:50.330 --> 02:53:52.501
or in these recently free countries,

02:53:52.501 --> 02:53:56.100
surveillance is one of
the most common tools

02:53:56.100 --> 02:53:58.180
to manage descent.

02:53:58.180 --> 02:54:01.690
And that is often followed
by state sanctioned violence

02:54:01.690 --> 02:54:05.010
as means to silence any dissidents.

02:54:05.010 --> 02:54:07.585
I urge each of you to
consider the statement

02:54:07.585 --> 02:54:10.502
the statement that you
would make by not banning

02:54:10.502 --> 02:54:15.502
the use of facial surveillance
technology in Boston.

02:54:16.385 --> 02:54:20.210
I urge each of you to imagine
a 14 year old student of color

02:54:20.210 --> 02:54:22.970
or a Latino essential
worker in front of you,

02:54:22.970 --> 02:54:25.210
asking if their lives matter.

02:54:25.210 --> 02:54:26.970
What is your response?

02:54:26.970 --> 02:54:29.260
I encourage you to consider that moment

02:54:29.260 --> 02:54:32.240
and to press pause on the
use of face surveillance

02:54:32.240 --> 02:54:34.360
by government entities
in the city of Boston,

02:54:34.360 --> 02:54:36.780
by supporting and
passing this crucial ban.

02:54:36.780 --> 02:54:40.240
We cannot allow Boston
to adopt authoritarian,

02:54:40.240 --> 02:54:43.310
unregulated, bias surveillance technology.

02:54:43.310 --> 02:54:46.300
Thank you for your attention
and your consideration.

02:54:46.300 --> 02:54:47.410
Thank you very much.

02:54:47.410 --> 02:54:51.550
At this point, I'm going
to turn over the microphone

02:54:51.550 --> 02:54:56.065
or the gavel if you will, to
my colleague, Michelle Wu.

02:54:56.065 --> 02:54:59.570
I'll just say up next two
speakers should be getting ready.

02:54:59.570 --> 02:55:04.570
Is Julie McNulty, Zachary
Lawn, Christina Rivera,

02:55:06.705 --> 02:55:08.288
and Joseph Fridman.

02:55:09.639 --> 02:55:10.472
I wanna thank you so
much to the lead sponsors

02:55:12.447 --> 02:55:13.498
of this ordinance.

02:55:13.498 --> 02:55:14.510
I will be planning to
have a working session

02:55:14.510 --> 02:55:16.350
as soon as possible.

02:55:16.350 --> 02:55:18.900
I do understand the
urgency and I do believe

02:55:18.900 --> 02:55:23.340
that there is a great
opportunity before us to lead

02:55:23.340 --> 02:55:28.340
in a way that not only values the lives

02:55:29.258 --> 02:55:33.610
of our black and brown, but in
general, our civil liberties.

02:55:33.610 --> 02:55:34.850
And so I want to thank again,

02:55:34.850 --> 02:55:36.670
lead sponsors for their leadership.

02:55:36.670 --> 02:55:38.800
I look forward to getting this done

02:55:38.800 --> 02:55:41.350
and with that I'm going
to have to sign off

02:55:41.350 --> 02:55:43.423
and I turn over to Michelle Wu.

02:55:44.386 --> 02:55:45.943
Thank you.

02:55:45.943 --> 02:55:47.205
Thank you so much, madam chair.

02:55:47.205 --> 02:55:49.538
We're very grateful for you.

02:55:51.200 --> 02:55:53.083
Okay, next step was Julie.

02:55:55.160 --> 02:55:59.293
And if not, Julie, then Zachary.

02:56:06.450 --> 02:56:11.210
And just to know, could
council central staff

02:56:11.210 --> 02:56:12.390
give me administrative rights,

02:56:12.390 --> 02:56:14.960
so I can help search whether folks

02:56:14.960 --> 02:56:17.056
are stuck in the waiting room

02:56:17.056 --> 02:56:20.313
and trans people over into the
panelists section, thank you.

02:56:23.160 --> 02:56:27.260
So again, it was Julie,
Zachary, Christina Rivera,

02:56:27.260 --> 02:56:31.843
Joseph Fridman, Danielle
Samter, for the next few.

02:56:43.630 --> 02:56:44.780
Christina, why don't you go ahead.

02:56:44.780 --> 02:56:46.730
I see you now in the, in the main room.

02:56:48.275 --> 02:56:49.280
Hi, yes.

02:56:49.280 --> 02:56:50.319
Thank you for having me as stated.

02:56:50.319 --> 02:56:51.921
My name is Christina Rivera

02:56:51.921 --> 02:56:54.290
and I am an east Boston resident.

02:56:54.290 --> 02:56:57.238
I'm also the founder of
the Latin X Coalition

02:56:57.238 --> 02:56:58.899
for Black Lives Matter.

02:56:58.899 --> 02:57:01.790
It is a support organization

02:57:01.790 --> 02:57:04.560
to help end racism within our community,

02:57:04.560 --> 02:57:06.900
but also help advance the work

02:57:06.900 --> 02:57:09.870
of the Black Lives Matter Movement.

02:57:09.870 --> 02:57:11.480
I wanna say that we as an organization,

02:57:11.480 --> 02:57:13.080
we fully support the ordinance

02:57:13.080 --> 02:57:16.680
of a ban on facial recognition technology.

02:57:16.680 --> 02:57:18.980
As stated all throughout
this meeting earlier,

02:57:19.929 --> 02:57:21.110
we know that the automation bias exists

02:57:21.110 --> 02:57:23.770
and that facial recognition technology

02:57:23.770 --> 02:57:26.760
clearly shows bias towards
already highly targeted

02:57:26.760 --> 02:57:28.610
and hyper policed communities,

02:57:28.610 --> 02:57:30.630
specifically those of color.

02:57:30.630 --> 02:57:33.180
And I just wanna pose the question,

02:57:33.180 --> 02:57:35.120
how can we begin to trust

02:57:35.120 --> 02:57:37.601
even with the development
of algorithm accuracy,

02:57:37.601 --> 02:57:41.400
that those who will use it in the future

02:57:41.400 --> 02:57:43.304
will not abuse its capabilities.

02:57:43.304 --> 02:57:45.320
We already have a police force

02:57:45.320 --> 02:57:47.110
that has shown time and time again,

02:57:47.110 --> 02:57:49.960
that some of their own
procedures are still abused

02:57:49.960 --> 02:57:53.370
to this date and used by bad actors.

02:57:53.370 --> 02:57:55.370
So adding a tool that can be used

02:57:55.370 --> 02:57:57.000
to further affirm racial bias

02:57:57.000 --> 02:57:59.908
only provides another route
to target our communities.

02:57:59.908 --> 02:58:03.870
Using this technology also
enforces a policing system

02:58:03.870 --> 02:58:05.830
that is based on control,

02:58:05.830 --> 02:58:09.390
and that is a direct
symptom of police mistrust

02:58:09.390 --> 02:58:11.420
that already exists of their own citizens

02:58:11.420 --> 02:58:13.700
and the ones that they serve.

02:58:13.700 --> 02:58:16.345
And so, as some people earlier stated,

02:58:16.345 --> 02:58:19.465
specifically Mr. Daley point about

02:58:19.465 --> 02:58:24.280
what government agencies are
allowed to already use this

02:58:24.280 --> 02:58:28.520
versus people who have in inactive bands,

02:58:28.520 --> 02:58:31.570
what is also going to
be the legislative power

02:58:31.570 --> 02:58:34.000
that any federal agency
will be able to use it

02:58:34.000 --> 02:58:35.600
in individual states,

02:58:35.600 --> 02:58:39.070
specifically when it comes
to I.C.E and immigration.

02:58:39.070 --> 02:58:41.060
So this is something that
we are looking to make sure

02:58:41.060 --> 02:58:43.446
that it's not only is banned now,

02:58:43.446 --> 02:58:45.605
but also cannot be allowed in the future.

02:58:45.605 --> 02:58:46.700
With that said,

02:58:46.700 --> 02:58:48.160
thank you so much to all the panelists

02:58:48.160 --> 02:58:50.260
who've shared all this great information.

02:58:50.260 --> 02:58:52.907
Thank you so much to councilor
Wu and councilor Arroyo

02:58:52.907 --> 02:58:56.260
for doing this work and I concede my time.

02:58:56.260 --> 02:58:57.093
Thank you.

02:58:58.760 --> 02:59:00.000
Thank you so much, Christina.

02:59:00.000 --> 02:59:02.403
We appreciate you, Joseph.

02:59:06.027 --> 02:59:07.426
Yes, thank you for your time.

02:59:07.426 --> 02:59:08.520
I'd like to tell you a
little bit about the science

02:59:08.520 --> 02:59:11.060
between emotion detection technologies.

02:59:11.060 --> 02:59:11.960
So these are technologies

02:59:11.960 --> 02:59:14.480
that use information captured
from face surveillance

02:59:14.480 --> 02:59:16.350
to supposedly recognize emotions.

02:59:16.350 --> 02:59:18.560
So I'll be speaking to
you as a private citizen,

02:59:18.560 --> 02:59:19.880
but I'll tell you that
for the past three years,

02:59:19.880 --> 02:59:21.870
I've been working at a lab
at Northeastern University,

02:59:21.870 --> 02:59:23.200
which studies emotions,

02:59:23.200 --> 02:59:24.250
and I've been a research assistant

02:59:24.250 --> 02:59:26.190
at the Harvard Kennedy Schools
Belfer Center for Science

02:59:26.190 --> 02:59:27.410
and International Relations,

02:59:27.410 --> 02:59:29.430
thinking about the same
type of technology.

02:59:29.430 --> 02:59:31.440
At the interdisciplinary
aspect of science lab

02:59:31.440 --> 02:59:32.273
at Northeastern,

02:59:32.273 --> 02:59:34.430
one of my bosses is Dr.
Lisa Feldman Barrett.

02:59:34.430 --> 02:59:36.480
Dr. Barrett has research
appointments at MGH

02:59:36.480 --> 02:59:37.330
and Harvard Medical School.

02:59:37.330 --> 02:59:39.610
She's the chief scientific
officer at MGH Center

02:59:39.610 --> 02:59:41.100
for Law, Brain and Behavior.

02:59:41.100 --> 02:59:41.933
She's the author of

02:59:41.933 --> 02:59:44.040
over 230 peer reviewed scientific papers,

02:59:44.040 --> 02:59:45.430
and just finished a term as president

02:59:45.430 --> 02:59:47.590
of the Association for
Psychological Science,

02:59:47.590 --> 02:59:49.520
where she represented tens
of thousands of scientists

02:59:49.520 --> 02:59:50.760
around the world.

02:59:50.760 --> 02:59:51.593
Three years ago,

02:59:51.593 --> 02:59:54.060
this organization commissioned
her and four other experts,

02:59:54.060 --> 02:59:56.190
psychologists, computer
science, and so on,

02:59:56.190 --> 02:59:57.270
to do a major study

02:59:57.270 --> 02:59:59.600
on whether people across
the world express emotions

02:59:59.600 --> 03:00:01.860
like anger, sadness,
fear, disgust, surprise,

03:00:01.860 --> 03:00:04.960
and happiness with distinctive
movements of the face.

03:00:04.960 --> 03:00:06.030
So all of these scientists

03:00:06.030 --> 03:00:07.290
started with different perspectives,

03:00:07.290 --> 03:00:09.360
but they reviewed a
thousand research articles

03:00:09.360 --> 03:00:12.100
and they came to a very simple
and very important consensus.

03:00:12.100 --> 03:00:13.400
So the question is,

03:00:13.400 --> 03:00:16.110
can you read emotions
reliably in a human face?

03:00:16.110 --> 03:00:17.390
And the answer is no.

03:00:17.390 --> 03:00:19.470
Here's an example from Dr. Barrett.

03:00:19.470 --> 03:00:22.350
People living in Western
cultures scowl when they're angry

03:00:22.350 --> 03:00:23.920
about 30% of the time,

03:00:23.920 --> 03:00:26.190
this means that they make
other facial expressions,

03:00:26.190 --> 03:00:29.866
frowns, wide-eyed, gasps
smiles about 70% of the time.

03:00:29.866 --> 03:00:32.320
This is called low reliability.

03:00:32.320 --> 03:00:35.069
People scowl when angry more than chance,

03:00:35.069 --> 03:00:36.130
but they also scowl
when they're not angry.

03:00:36.130 --> 03:00:38.650
If they're concentrating or if
they have something like gas,

03:00:38.650 --> 03:00:40.510
this is called low specificity.

03:00:40.510 --> 03:00:42.730
So a scowl is not the expression of anger,

03:00:42.730 --> 03:00:44.420
but it's one of many expressions of anger.

03:00:44.420 --> 03:00:47.070
And sometimes it doesn't
express anger at all.

03:00:47.070 --> 03:00:49.669
In this paper, Dr.
Barrett and her colleagues

03:00:49.669 --> 03:00:52.484
showed that scowling and
anger, smiling and happiness,

03:00:52.484 --> 03:00:53.489
frowning and sadness,

03:00:53.489 --> 03:00:55.310
these are all Western stereotypes
of emotional expressions.

03:00:55.310 --> 03:00:56.770
They reflect some common beliefs

03:00:56.770 --> 03:00:58.260
about emotional expressions,

03:00:58.260 --> 03:01:00.391
but these beliefs don't correspond

03:01:00.391 --> 03:01:02.887
to how people actually move
their faces in real life.

03:01:02.887 --> 03:01:03.720
And they don't generalize to cultures

03:01:04.925 --> 03:01:06.608
that are different from ours.

03:01:06.608 --> 03:01:07.989
So it's not possible for anyone

03:01:07.989 --> 03:01:09.806
or anything to read an
emotion on our face.

03:01:09.806 --> 03:01:11.550
And we shouldn't confidently
infer happiness from a smile,

03:01:11.550 --> 03:01:14.070
anger from a scowl or
sadness from a frown.

03:01:14.070 --> 03:01:16.906
There are technologies
that claim to do this,

03:01:16.906 --> 03:01:18.989
and they're misrepresenting
what they can do

03:01:18.989 --> 03:01:20.203
according to the best available evidence.

03:01:21.470 --> 03:01:24.370
People aren't moving their faces randomly,

03:01:24.370 --> 03:01:25.730
but there's a lot of variation

03:01:25.730 --> 03:01:27.808
and the meaning of a facial movement

03:01:27.808 --> 03:01:30.190
depends on a person on the
context and on culture.

03:01:30.190 --> 03:01:31.810
So let me give you one example

03:01:31.810 --> 03:01:34.670
of how making this assumption
can be really harmful.

03:01:34.670 --> 03:01:36.240
There's a scientist, Dr. Lauren Ruth,

03:01:36.240 --> 03:01:38.563
when she was at Wake Forest University,

03:01:38.563 --> 03:01:40.085
published work reviewing two popular

03:01:40.085 --> 03:01:41.010
emotion detection algorithms.

03:01:41.010 --> 03:01:43.010
She ran these algorithms algorithms

03:01:43.010 --> 03:01:45.470
on portraits of white
and black NBA players.

03:01:45.470 --> 03:01:47.310
And both of them consistently interpreted

03:01:47.310 --> 03:01:49.380
the black players as having
more negative emotions

03:01:49.380 --> 03:01:50.830
than the white players.

03:01:50.830 --> 03:01:52.240
Imagine that there's a security guard

03:01:52.240 --> 03:01:54.090
that gets information
from a surveillance camera

03:01:54.090 --> 03:01:55.270
that this is possible nuisance

03:01:55.270 --> 03:01:57.129
in the lobby of their building

03:01:57.129 --> 03:01:59.060
because of the facial movements
that somebody is making.

03:01:59.060 --> 03:02:00.660
Imagine a defendant in the courtroom

03:02:00.660 --> 03:02:02.860
that scowling as they
concentrate on legal proceedings

03:02:02.860 --> 03:02:05.350
but in emotion AI, based
on facial surveillance

03:02:05.350 --> 03:02:07.500
tells the jury that
the defendant is angry.

03:02:07.500 --> 03:02:08.910
Imagine that the defendant is black

03:02:08.910 --> 03:02:10.920
and the AI says that they're contemptuous.

03:02:10.920 --> 03:02:12.900
Imagine at worst, that police officer

03:02:12.900 --> 03:02:14.660
receiving an alert from at a body camera

03:02:14.660 --> 03:02:16.030
based on this technology

03:02:16.030 --> 03:02:18.440
that says that someone in
their line of sight is a threat

03:02:18.440 --> 03:02:21.410
based on a so-called
reading of their face.

03:02:21.410 --> 03:02:24.220
Councilors I think that the question

03:02:24.220 --> 03:02:25.190
that we should be thinking about

03:02:25.190 --> 03:02:27.848
is whether we want someone
to use this technology on us

03:02:27.848 --> 03:02:31.129
with the chance that it
would misinterpret our face

03:02:31.129 --> 03:02:34.010
given the major chance
that it has of being wrong.

03:02:34.010 --> 03:02:35.960
And I think the clear
answer to that is no.

03:02:35.960 --> 03:02:38.220
We should ban facial
surveillance technologies

03:02:38.220 --> 03:02:41.490
and all of these other
dangerous applications.

03:02:41.490 --> 03:02:42.760
Thank you.

03:02:42.760 --> 03:02:43.860
Thank you very much.

03:02:43.860 --> 03:02:45.990
Next up is Danielle and
Danielle will be followed

03:02:45.990 --> 03:02:48.703
by DJ Hatfield and Denise Horn.

03:02:50.980 --> 03:02:53.110
Hi, good afternoon everybody.

03:02:53.110 --> 03:02:55.068
My name is Danielle,
I'm a Boston resident,

03:02:55.068 --> 03:02:57.448
I live in the north end.

03:02:57.448 --> 03:03:00.980
I just wanted to fully support

03:03:00.980 --> 03:03:03.927
and put my voice behind the ban

03:03:03.927 --> 03:03:07.925
for facial recognition
recognition technology.

03:03:07.925 --> 03:03:10.900
I feel as though the expert witnesses

03:03:10.900 --> 03:03:13.210
and activists that have gone before me,

03:03:13.210 --> 03:03:17.630
have clearly expressed and
eloquently expressed the views

03:03:17.630 --> 03:03:19.230
that I also share.

03:03:19.230 --> 03:03:22.863
I find this technology to
be incredibly dangerous.

03:03:22.863 --> 03:03:25.620
As a cybersecurity professional,

03:03:25.620 --> 03:03:27.390
I have a lot of questions about

03:03:27.390 --> 03:03:32.350
what it means to be
collecting data on people

03:03:32.350 --> 03:03:33.283
and storing it.

03:03:34.210 --> 03:03:38.110
I certainly think that this is a measure

03:03:38.110 --> 03:03:40.428
that should be taken to be a precedent

03:03:40.428 --> 03:03:43.460
for all future developments
of the technology

03:03:43.460 --> 03:03:44.750
as was just stated.

03:03:44.750 --> 03:03:48.270
There are upcoming and new ways

03:03:48.270 --> 03:03:52.490
to express facial recognition
through emotions or otherwise

03:03:52.490 --> 03:03:56.160
that we can't even comprehend
yet because it hasn't started.

03:03:56.160 --> 03:03:59.550
So I wanted to support it and
thank all the other people

03:03:59.550 --> 03:04:01.290
for putting their voice behind it

03:04:01.290 --> 03:04:04.483
and hope to see it take place, thank you.

03:04:06.160 --> 03:04:07.567
Thank you very much, DJ.

03:04:15.261 --> 03:04:17.860
Hi, will start the video.

03:04:17.860 --> 03:04:19.690
So I'm DJ Hatfield.

03:04:19.690 --> 03:04:23.350
I'm a professor of
anthropology and history

03:04:23.350 --> 03:04:25.870
at the Berkeley College
of Music in Boston.

03:04:25.870 --> 03:04:30.860
However, what I have to
say is as a private citizen

03:04:30.860 --> 03:04:33.352
and a resident of east Boston,

03:04:33.352 --> 03:04:37.509
that's a shout out to
Lydia, east Boston pride.

03:04:37.509 --> 03:04:42.509
Yes, as an anthropologist I'm
aware that all technologies,

03:04:42.750 --> 03:04:44.810
including digital technologies

03:04:44.810 --> 03:04:47.100
reflect an augment the social structures

03:04:47.100 --> 03:04:50.070
and systems of value of
particular societies.

03:04:50.070 --> 03:04:51.870
They are not objective,

03:04:51.870 --> 03:04:54.370
but reflect the biases of those societies

03:04:54.370 --> 03:04:56.792
as they develop through history.

03:04:56.792 --> 03:04:59.470
Moreover, if we look at societies

03:04:59.470 --> 03:05:02.490
where facial recognition
has been widely deployed,

03:05:02.490 --> 03:05:04.630
such as the People's Republic of China,

03:05:04.630 --> 03:05:07.775
we see very clearly how these technologies

03:05:07.775 --> 03:05:10.560
have been used systematically

03:05:10.560 --> 03:05:13.063
to target marginal populations.

03:05:14.590 --> 03:05:16.800
This is a quality of the weight

03:05:16.800 --> 03:05:21.130
that these technologies
intersect with social systems

03:05:21.130 --> 03:05:23.140
that act against people of color

03:05:23.140 --> 03:05:25.363
and indigenous people, globally.

03:05:26.430 --> 03:05:28.435
Therefore, in the city of Boston,

03:05:28.435 --> 03:05:33.032
where we take pride in our civic freedoms,

03:05:33.032 --> 03:05:36.590
we should be wary of technologies

03:05:36.590 --> 03:05:39.920
that would make our Fourth
Amendment meaningless

03:05:39.920 --> 03:05:41.720
and would erode the First Amendment.

03:05:42.600 --> 03:05:45.150
Therefore, I would urge the city council

03:05:45.150 --> 03:05:50.150
and the city of Boston
to pass a complete ban

03:05:50.518 --> 03:05:54.970
on facial recognition
systems and technology,

03:05:54.970 --> 03:05:58.630
with the amendments that have
been proposed by experts,

03:05:58.630 --> 03:06:01.690
such as those of the
Electronic Freedom Foundation,

03:06:01.690 --> 03:06:06.680
and the Algorithmic Justice League,

03:06:06.680 --> 03:06:09.080
who have said there should be no exception

03:06:09.080 --> 03:06:12.896
for the Boston Police Department
to use facial recognition

03:06:12.896 --> 03:06:17.896
or surveillance systems in evidence,

03:06:17.958 --> 03:06:20.970
in which there should be strict rules

03:06:20.970 --> 03:06:24.420
for enforcement of breaches of this ban.

03:06:24.420 --> 03:06:28.570
And finally, if possible,
extending this ban

03:06:28.570 --> 03:06:31.380
to all private actors who have business

03:06:31.380 --> 03:06:32.880
in the city of Boston.

03:06:32.880 --> 03:06:34.350
Thank you for your consideration

03:06:34.350 --> 03:06:35.960
and thank you for all your time today.

03:06:35.960 --> 03:06:38.630
I appreciate being able to join

03:06:38.630 --> 03:06:40.970
in my very first public hearing.

03:06:40.970 --> 03:06:41.803
Thank you.

03:06:41.803 --> 03:06:44.590
We are excited to have you at our hearing

03:06:44.590 --> 03:06:47.290
and hope you'll come back, Denise next.

03:06:47.290 --> 03:06:48.880
And then after Denise,

03:06:48.880 --> 03:06:50.640
there are a few names assigned up

03:06:50.640 --> 03:06:52.410
that I didn't see in the room.

03:06:52.410 --> 03:06:55.200
So I'm gonna call out folks

03:06:55.200 --> 03:06:57.350
that I was able to cross
reference between the waiting room

03:06:57.350 --> 03:07:00.500
and the list, which was Charles Griswold

03:07:00.500 --> 03:07:02.240
and Nora Paul-Schultz.

03:07:02.240 --> 03:07:03.200
And then after that,

03:07:03.200 --> 03:07:04.750
I'm gonna try to admit everyone else

03:07:04.750 --> 03:07:06.795
who's in the room and go in order,

03:07:06.795 --> 03:07:09.900
even if you weren't on the original list.

03:07:09.900 --> 03:07:11.013
So Denise, please.

03:07:12.670 --> 03:07:13.610
Thank you.

03:07:13.610 --> 03:07:14.980
Thank you members of the council

03:07:14.980 --> 03:07:16.900
and the lead sponsors of the ordinance

03:07:16.900 --> 03:07:19.190
and the panelists, really
excellent commentary.

03:07:19.190 --> 03:07:21.360
And I just have to say how impressed I am

03:07:21.360 --> 03:07:25.020
with the Student Immigrant
Movement for showing up today,

03:07:25.020 --> 03:07:26.613
this really impressive.

03:07:26.613 --> 03:07:30.154
My name is Denise Horn, I'm
a resident of Jamaica Plain.

03:07:30.154 --> 03:07:32.730
I'm also a professor of political science

03:07:32.730 --> 03:07:35.430
and international relations
at Simmons University.

03:07:35.430 --> 03:07:37.644
Although I am not representing
my institution today.

03:07:37.644 --> 03:07:40.790
And I want to say that I support the ban

03:07:40.790 --> 03:07:42.734
against the use of facial surveillance.

03:07:42.734 --> 03:07:45.300
So, like professor Hatfield,

03:07:45.300 --> 03:07:49.070
I am a scholar of international relations,

03:07:49.070 --> 03:07:51.673
I have studied authoritarian
regimes in Eastern Europe

03:07:51.673 --> 03:07:55.020
and east and southeast Asia,

03:07:55.020 --> 03:07:57.567
where surveillance technologies
of every kind have been

03:07:57.567 --> 03:08:00.620
and are used to target
enemies of the state.

03:08:00.620 --> 03:08:03.427
In the United States we're
already seeing this language

03:08:03.427 --> 03:08:05.010
in use by the leaders in our government,

03:08:05.010 --> 03:08:06.240
regarding immigrants and activists,

03:08:06.240 --> 03:08:09.532
and especially those who
are opposed to fascism.

03:08:09.532 --> 03:08:11.770
I do not think that we
should underestimate

03:08:11.770 --> 03:08:14.367
how this type of technology could be used

03:08:14.367 --> 03:08:17.729
to further racists an
authoritarian agendas here.

03:08:17.729 --> 03:08:21.250
The use of facial surveillance
is used to oppress

03:08:21.250 --> 03:08:24.170
and control citizens under
the guise of public safety.

03:08:24.170 --> 03:08:25.467
This is a slippery slope.

03:08:25.467 --> 03:08:28.890
Government surveillance
is used to silence,

03:08:28.890 --> 03:08:32.320
to suppress speech and
to violate human rights.

03:08:32.320 --> 03:08:34.680
As an educator, I worry about this type,

03:08:34.680 --> 03:08:37.630
how this type of technology will be used

03:08:37.630 --> 03:08:40.910
to adversely affect the lives
of my students of color,

03:08:40.910 --> 03:08:43.640
trans students, undocumented
students, activists

03:08:43.640 --> 03:08:47.070
and marginalized groups,
their lives matter.

03:08:47.070 --> 03:08:48.520
I strongly support this ban

03:08:48.520 --> 03:08:50.483
and I thank you for letting me speak.

03:08:52.380 --> 03:08:54.903
Thank you, Denise, Charles.

03:08:55.830 --> 03:09:00.830
Yep, so I'm trying to start
the video here, there we are.

03:09:02.828 --> 03:09:04.683
Can you see me and hear me?

03:09:05.649 --> 03:09:08.420
Yes we can.
Okay, thank you.

03:09:08.420 --> 03:09:11.543
My name is Charles Gridwold,
I'm a resident of Brighton

03:09:11.543 --> 03:09:15.720
and I'm a philosophy professor
at Boston University.

03:09:15.720 --> 03:09:18.873
I hasten to add that I'm
offering my thoughts here

03:09:18.873 --> 03:09:21.220
and in offering my thoughts,

03:09:21.220 --> 03:09:23.320
I am not speaking for my university

03:09:23.320 --> 03:09:24.830
and not acting on his behalf.

03:09:24.830 --> 03:09:26.708
So I'm speaking on my own behalf only.

03:09:26.708 --> 03:09:29.640
I'm very grateful to all
of you on the council

03:09:29.640 --> 03:09:31.772
for taking action on this matter

03:09:31.772 --> 03:09:34.740
and to the police commissioner
for his impressive

03:09:34.740 --> 03:09:36.532
and in some ways reassuring testimony.

03:09:36.532 --> 03:09:39.370
It's imperative I think,

03:09:39.370 --> 03:09:43.390
that you approve this ban on
facial recognition technology,

03:09:43.390 --> 03:09:47.660
or rather technologies as we've
learned today by government

03:09:47.660 --> 03:09:50.653
before the relevant software is upgraded.

03:09:51.520 --> 03:09:52.690
So far as I can tell,

03:09:52.690 --> 03:09:56.707
three arguments for the ban
have been discussed today.

03:09:56.707 --> 03:10:00.050
The first two extensively
and the third a bit less so

03:10:00.050 --> 03:10:02.991
and taken together, they
seem to me to be decisive

03:10:02.991 --> 03:10:06.120
in making the case for the ban.

03:10:06.120 --> 03:10:07.280
The first is of course

03:10:07.280 --> 03:10:10.000
the matter of racial and gender justice,

03:10:10.000 --> 03:10:12.090
on account of the fact that the technology

03:10:12.090 --> 03:10:14.369
is known to be inaccurate.

03:10:14.369 --> 03:10:18.400
But secondly, is the
fact that the technology

03:10:18.400 --> 03:10:19.510
is objectionable.

03:10:19.510 --> 03:10:21.160
Not just because it's not accurate,

03:10:21.160 --> 03:10:23.250
but also when it is accurate,

03:10:23.250 --> 03:10:26.960
as Kade Crockford has
eloquently argued today.

03:10:26.960 --> 03:10:28.860
And that seems to me
to be an essential part

03:10:28.860 --> 03:10:32.630
of the response to the
commissioner's remarks.

03:10:32.630 --> 03:10:36.990
In some of the technology puts
tremendous additional power

03:10:36.990 --> 03:10:39.410
in the hands of government and its agents,

03:10:39.410 --> 03:10:42.120
all the more so when it actually does work

03:10:42.120 --> 03:10:44.400
and our privacy among other things

03:10:44.400 --> 03:10:46.750
is certainly threatened by that.

03:10:46.750 --> 03:10:49.090
Where could that lead, look no further,

03:10:49.090 --> 03:10:52.120
as people have suggested to the nightmare,

03:10:52.120 --> 03:10:55.670
that is the surveillance
apparatus in China today.

03:10:55.670 --> 03:10:58.890
The third point is, has been mentioned,

03:10:58.890 --> 03:11:00.450
but it was less emphasized.

03:11:00.450 --> 03:11:02.016
And I think it's just worth underlining,

03:11:02.016 --> 03:11:04.000
which is that the awareness

03:11:04.000 --> 03:11:07.890
of being personally tracked
outside of one's home

03:11:07.890 --> 03:11:09.410
by this technology can,

03:11:09.410 --> 03:11:11.660
and I think will have a chilling effect

03:11:11.660 --> 03:11:14.150
on our exercise of our civil rights,

03:11:14.150 --> 03:11:16.256
including our rights of free speech,

03:11:16.256 --> 03:11:18.850
freedom of association and our religion.

03:11:18.850 --> 03:11:23.240
So I strongly urge the
council to pass this ban,

03:11:23.240 --> 03:11:25.712
but I also ask that you
will not stop there,

03:11:25.712 --> 03:11:28.740
expand the band even further,

03:11:28.740 --> 03:11:31.710
going forward to include other kinds

03:11:31.710 --> 03:11:33.300
of remote surveillance systems,

03:11:33.300 --> 03:11:35.070
such that are biometric for example,

03:11:35.070 --> 03:11:36.947
a gate and voice recognition systems,

03:11:36.947 --> 03:11:41.211
and also to the private
sector has been suggested.

03:11:41.211 --> 03:11:46.140
So I hope that you will consider
expeditiously passing this,

03:11:46.140 --> 03:11:48.270
but also going further.

03:11:48.270 --> 03:11:49.800
Thank you so much for listening.

03:11:49.800 --> 03:11:51.923
Thank you very much, Nora.

03:11:53.900 --> 03:11:56.060
Good evening, my name
is Nora Paul-Schultz,

03:11:56.060 --> 03:11:58.770
and I am a physics teacher
in Boston public schools.

03:11:58.770 --> 03:12:01.940
And I've had the pleasure
of teaching Eli and Esmalda

03:12:01.940 --> 03:12:03.960
who spoke earlier and
hopefully one day Angel.

03:12:03.960 --> 03:12:06.530
And I'm a resident of Jamaica Plain.

03:12:06.530 --> 03:12:09.300
As someone who studied
engineering when I was in college,

03:12:09.300 --> 03:12:10.480
has taught engineering

03:12:10.480 --> 03:12:13.080
and is one of the robotics
coaches at The O'Bryant,

03:12:13.080 --> 03:12:14.760
I understand the impulse to feel like

03:12:14.760 --> 03:12:17.360
technology can solve all of our problems.

03:12:17.360 --> 03:12:20.450
I know that many for
many there is a desire

03:12:20.450 --> 03:12:23.580
that if we have better
smarter and more technology

03:12:23.580 --> 03:12:26.100
than our communities will be safer,

03:12:26.100 --> 03:12:28.760
but the reality is that
technology is not perfect.

03:12:28.760 --> 03:12:31.080
A perfect unbias tool,

03:12:31.080 --> 03:12:33.410
as much as we wish it would be.

03:12:33.410 --> 03:12:36.791
Our technologies reflect the
inherent biases of our makers.

03:12:36.791 --> 03:12:39.952
So technology isn't going to save us.

03:12:39.952 --> 03:12:44.650
If it does not take
much to see that racism

03:12:44.650 --> 03:12:47.220
is infused in all parts of our country.

03:12:47.220 --> 03:12:51.150
And that is true about the
facial surveillance technologies.

03:12:51.150 --> 03:12:52.930
Through my work with Unafraid Educators,

03:12:52.930 --> 03:12:55.010
the Boston Teacher Unions,

03:12:55.010 --> 03:12:56.589
immigrant rights organizing committee,

03:12:56.589 --> 03:12:59.860
the information sharing
between Boston School Police

03:12:59.860 --> 03:13:02.080
and the Boston Police Department,

03:13:02.080 --> 03:13:06.227
I know how detrimental observations
and surveillance can be.

03:13:06.227 --> 03:13:07.940
Practices of surveillance

03:13:07.940 --> 03:13:09.640
like camera recording in the hallway

03:13:09.640 --> 03:13:13.429
or officers watching young
people are not passive.

03:13:13.429 --> 03:13:15.430
Surveillance is active.

03:13:15.430 --> 03:13:19.060
It leads to the creation
of law enforcement profiles

03:13:19.060 --> 03:13:23.850
about young people and
that can impact their lives

03:13:23.850 --> 03:13:25.797
in material ways for years to come.

03:13:25.797 --> 03:13:29.770
And what of those impacts
being in the system,

03:13:29.770 --> 03:13:32.410
can make it harder for
young people to get a job

03:13:32.410 --> 03:13:33.400
or get housing.

03:13:33.400 --> 03:13:36.920
It can lead to incarceration,
it can lead to deportation.

03:13:36.920 --> 03:13:39.640
Our city government
does not need more tools

03:13:39.640 --> 03:13:41.650
to profile the people of our city

03:13:41.650 --> 03:13:44.960
and especially does doesn't need tools

03:13:44.960 --> 03:13:46.480
that are inherently racist.

03:13:46.480 --> 03:13:49.010
This is why the ban is so important.

03:13:49.010 --> 03:13:51.850
Teaching has taught me
that what keeps us safe

03:13:51.850 --> 03:13:54.190
is not having the government surveillance

03:13:54.190 --> 03:13:55.960
and track us through technology,

03:13:55.960 --> 03:13:58.160
what keeps us safe is
investing in housing,

03:13:58.160 --> 03:13:59.810
education and healthcare.

03:13:59.810 --> 03:14:03.247
This face surveillance
technology harms our community,

03:14:03.247 --> 03:14:04.493
Ah!

03:14:07.070 --> 03:14:08.549
Sorry.

03:14:08.549 --> 03:14:13.549
This surveillance technology
harms our community.

03:14:13.950 --> 03:14:16.170
The fact that the face ban technology

03:14:16.170 --> 03:14:19.830
only identifies black women
correctly one third of the time

03:14:19.830 --> 03:14:22.010
lays bare both the ineffectiveness

03:14:22.010 --> 03:14:24.280
and implicit bias built into the system.

03:14:24.280 --> 03:14:27.040
As a teacher I know that
that is not a passing grade.

03:14:27.040 --> 03:14:29.010
We need money to go to services

03:14:29.010 --> 03:14:30.988
that will protect our community,

03:14:30.988 --> 03:14:33.110
and we need to stop and prevent

03:14:33.110 --> 03:14:35.027
the use of ineffective racists

03:14:35.027 --> 03:14:37.820
and money wasting technologies.

03:14:37.820 --> 03:14:38.653
Thank you.

03:14:40.660 --> 03:14:43.090
Thank you, Nora and we
appreciate all of your work.

03:14:43.090 --> 03:14:45.987
I'm gonna quickly read the list of names

03:14:45.987 --> 03:14:48.240
that were signed up to testify,

03:14:48.240 --> 03:14:50.770
but I didn't see matches
of the names of folks

03:14:50.770 --> 03:14:52.010
left in the waiting room.

03:14:52.010 --> 03:14:54.360
So just in case you're assigning
it on a different name,

03:14:54.360 --> 03:14:55.720
but I'm expecting that these folks

03:14:55.720 --> 03:14:57.080
probably aren't here anymore.

03:14:57.080 --> 03:15:00.770
Julie McNulty, Zachary
Lawn, McKenna Kavanaugh,

03:15:00.770 --> 03:15:05.770
Christine Dordy, Sarah Nelson,
Andrew Tario, Amanda Meehan.

03:15:05.830 --> 03:15:10.070
Chris Farone, Bridget
Shepherd, Lena Papagiannis.

03:15:10.070 --> 03:15:14.673
Anyone here and signed on
under a different name?

03:15:15.670 --> 03:15:17.130
Nope, okay.

03:15:17.130 --> 03:15:18.620
Then I will just go on the order

03:15:18.620 --> 03:15:21.540
of folks appearing on my
screen to close this out.

03:15:21.540 --> 03:15:23.580
Thank you so much for your patience.

03:15:23.580 --> 03:15:28.580
So that will be Mark G then Adeline Ansell

03:15:28.890 --> 03:15:30.953
then Carolina Pena.

03:15:34.190 --> 03:15:36.363
Yes, so this is Mark Gurvich,

03:15:37.468 --> 03:15:39.300
I'm presenting testimony on behalf of

03:15:40.332 --> 03:15:41.165
Jewish Voice for Peace,

03:15:41.165 --> 03:15:42.570
a local and national organization

03:15:42.570 --> 03:15:45.630
that's guided by Jewish
values, fighting racism,

03:15:45.630 --> 03:15:49.300
sexism, Islamophobia, LGBTQ, oppression

03:15:49.300 --> 03:15:51.870
and anti-immigrant policies here

03:15:51.870 --> 03:15:53.630
and challenging racism, colonialism

03:15:53.630 --> 03:15:55.350
and oppression everywhere,

03:15:55.350 --> 03:15:58.290
with a focus on the injustices
suffered by Palestinians

03:15:58.290 --> 03:16:01.010
under Israeli occupation and control.

03:16:01.010 --> 03:16:04.237
In recent days in the U.S.
we have again witnessed

03:16:04.237 --> 03:16:07.240
the impact of militarized policing

03:16:07.240 --> 03:16:08.933
on communities of color.

03:16:08.933 --> 03:16:13.500
Councilor Wu has pointed
out in a recent publication

03:16:14.994 --> 03:16:17.473
about this militarization

03:16:17.473 --> 03:16:20.370
and much of this
militarization has been through

03:16:20.370 --> 03:16:23.700
the transfer of billions of
dollars worth of equipment

03:16:23.700 --> 03:16:27.000
from the military to
civilian or police forces,

03:16:27.000 --> 03:16:28.237
and the training of U.S. police

03:16:28.237 --> 03:16:30.040
and the use of military tactics

03:16:30.040 --> 03:16:31.710
in controlling the communities,

03:16:31.710 --> 03:16:33.810
most heavily impacted by racism,

03:16:33.810 --> 03:16:36.810
economic depletion, and health crises.

03:16:36.810 --> 03:16:41.691
Our view is that the use of
facial recognition technology

03:16:41.691 --> 03:16:46.250
is a key component of the
militarization of policing.

03:16:46.250 --> 03:16:48.120
We know this because of our knowledge

03:16:48.120 --> 03:16:50.180
and experience of the Israeli occupation

03:16:50.180 --> 03:16:52.588
of Palestinian people in land.

03:16:52.588 --> 03:16:57.588
Facial recognition is a core
feature of that occupation.

03:16:58.830 --> 03:17:00.850
Much of the technology being marketed

03:17:00.850 --> 03:17:02.500
to the U.S. law enforcement,

03:17:02.500 --> 03:17:04.800
has been field tested on Palestinians

03:17:04.800 --> 03:17:07.230
under military occupation.

03:17:07.230 --> 03:17:09.180
At this historic and critical time,

03:17:09.180 --> 03:17:12.110
when the effects of militarized
policing in the U.S.

03:17:12.110 --> 03:17:15.950
has resulted in nationwide
and worldwide condemnation,

03:17:15.950 --> 03:17:18.930
the very last thing we
need is another tool

03:17:18.930 --> 03:17:22.770
adopted from the toolbox
of military occupation.

03:17:22.770 --> 03:17:26.727
Jewish Voice for Peace, supports
the face surveillance ban.

03:17:26.727 --> 03:17:28.810
Thank you.

03:17:28.810 --> 03:17:30.230
Thank you very much.

03:17:30.230 --> 03:17:33.033
Adeline or Adeline, sorry
to mispronounce your name.

03:17:40.180 --> 03:17:41.013
Adeline Ansell.

03:17:44.810 --> 03:17:47.833
We'll move on to Carolina
or Carolina Pena.

03:17:56.380 --> 03:17:57.852
Let me see.

03:17:57.852 --> 03:17:59.593
I will unmute on my own in case

03:17:59.593 --> 03:18:01.573
it's a muting and unmuting issue.

03:18:06.180 --> 03:18:09.030
Then we'll move on to Kristen Lyman.

03:18:09.030 --> 03:18:11.510
Kristen will be followed by Galen bunting,

03:18:11.510 --> 03:18:14.512
Maria Brincker and Araya Zack.

03:18:14.512 --> 03:18:15.345
Kristin.

03:18:28.140 --> 03:18:29.433
Okay, going to Galen,

03:18:38.133 --> 03:18:39.383
Maria Brincker.

03:18:46.010 --> 03:18:47.040
MARIA: Yes.

03:18:47.040 --> 03:18:49.820
Hi, I had actually not
necessarily prepared.

03:18:49.820 --> 03:18:53.209
Hello, can you hear me?

03:18:53.209 --> 03:18:57.370
Adeline, will go to your
right right next up to Maria.

03:18:57.370 --> 03:18:59.640
Sorry about the confusion.

03:18:59.640 --> 03:19:01.928
ADELINE: Okay.
Okay, no problem.

03:19:01.928 --> 03:19:05.284
So I just wanted to thank everybody

03:19:05.284 --> 03:19:09.880
and I wanna say that I am very much,

03:19:09.880 --> 03:19:12.690
I'm an associate professor at UMass Boston

03:19:12.690 --> 03:19:15.773
and both as an educator,

03:19:15.773 --> 03:19:20.246
and as a researcher in
issues of surveillance,

03:19:20.246 --> 03:19:23.412
I am very much in favor of the ordinance.

03:19:23.412 --> 03:19:26.233
I would like to say that,

03:19:26.233 --> 03:19:31.233
I would also like the council
to consider wider regulations.

03:19:31.280 --> 03:19:33.971
So as many have said before,

03:19:33.971 --> 03:19:38.971
there's a lot of issues
also in the private sphere.

03:19:39.970 --> 03:19:42.371
So this is a very important first step,

03:19:42.371 --> 03:19:47.371
but a lot of the use of facial recognition

03:19:48.078 --> 03:19:49.510
in law enforcement,

03:19:49.510 --> 03:19:54.510
really interacts with the use
of surveillance technologies

03:19:55.160 --> 03:19:56.770
in the private space.

03:19:56.770 --> 03:20:01.200
So for example, when the
Brooklyn Police Department

03:20:01.200 --> 03:20:04.403
were trying to argue
against the Brooklyn ban,

03:20:08.270 --> 03:20:13.270
they used an example of
police using Snapchat.

03:20:13.892 --> 03:20:18.330
So a lot of speakers before
have talked about the importance

03:20:18.330 --> 03:20:20.330
of anonymity in public space,

03:20:20.330 --> 03:20:22.540
and I'm fully in support of that,

03:20:22.540 --> 03:20:25.520
but this is not only about public space.

03:20:25.520 --> 03:20:27.860
So the use of facial recognition software

03:20:27.860 --> 03:20:31.140
is of course invading all
our private spaces as well.

03:20:31.140 --> 03:20:35.210
So I would like people
to be aware of that.

03:20:35.210 --> 03:20:36.980
And as a teacher right now,

03:20:36.980 --> 03:20:40.032
with the epidemic teaching on Zoom,

03:20:40.032 --> 03:20:45.032
you can only imagine
the deployment of voice

03:20:47.410 --> 03:20:52.373
and face recognition in all our spaces.

03:20:52.373 --> 03:20:54.730
And so I think this is very important.

03:20:54.730 --> 03:20:55.563
And another thing,

03:20:55.563 --> 03:20:57.940
my background is also in
philosophy of neuroscience

03:20:57.940 --> 03:21:02.050
and in the understanding
of autonomous action.

03:21:02.050 --> 03:21:05.760
And autonomous action
depends on being in a space

03:21:05.760 --> 03:21:07.580
that we can understand.

03:21:07.580 --> 03:21:09.830
And one of the reasons
why facial recognition

03:21:09.830 --> 03:21:12.691
is one of the most dangerous inventions,

03:21:12.691 --> 03:21:17.691
is that it precisely ruins
the integrity of any space

03:21:17.933 --> 03:21:20.231
because we don't know who's there

03:21:20.231 --> 03:21:24.053
and it can do so retroactively.

03:21:25.120 --> 03:21:29.230
So I thank you very much
for all your work on this,

03:21:29.230 --> 03:21:32.400
and I'm fully in support of
the ordinance, thank you.

03:21:32.400 --> 03:21:33.400
Thank you so much.

03:21:34.530 --> 03:21:36.420
Okay, next we'll go to Adeline

03:21:39.140 --> 03:21:41.413
Hi, I'm Adeline Ansell.

03:21:42.620 --> 03:21:45.480
I was just coming out to
support the ordinance as member

03:21:45.480 --> 03:21:47.360
of the Unafraid Educators group

03:21:47.360 --> 03:21:49.780
of the Boston Teachers Union,

03:21:49.780 --> 03:21:51.790
to protect our immigrant students

03:21:51.790 --> 03:21:53.924
and who have been
advocating for themselves

03:21:53.924 --> 03:21:56.750
through the Student Immigrant Movement

03:21:56.750 --> 03:21:58.950
to support this ordinance

03:21:58.950 --> 03:22:03.022
banning facial recognition technology,

03:22:03.022 --> 03:22:06.944
because it puts our
students more so at risk.

03:22:06.944 --> 03:22:10.930
And I don't have a lot to add.

03:22:10.930 --> 03:22:12.400
I just wanna support
the work they're doing

03:22:12.400 --> 03:22:14.030
in their student advocacy.

03:22:14.030 --> 03:22:15.750
And I know they all spoke for themselves

03:22:15.750 --> 03:22:17.670
and in their allies did as well,

03:22:17.670 --> 03:22:20.460
and just wanted to let you
know that Boston teachers

03:22:20.460 --> 03:22:23.350
also support this ban.

03:22:23.350 --> 03:22:26.500
So thank you for listening
to all of their testimony

03:22:26.500 --> 03:22:29.470
and know that the teachers
are on their side too,

03:22:29.470 --> 03:22:32.650
and that we support this
ordinance, thank you.

03:22:32.650 --> 03:22:33.990
Thank you.

03:22:33.990 --> 03:22:35.600
Okay, last call.

03:22:35.600 --> 03:22:38.410
Either Carolina or Galen

03:22:38.410 --> 03:22:40.260
or anyone else who would like to speak.

03:22:40.260 --> 03:22:43.123
I think everyone's been admitted
from the waiting room now.

03:22:45.570 --> 03:22:46.890
Okay, seeing no takers,

03:22:46.890 --> 03:22:49.410
I'll pass it back if any councilors

03:22:49.410 --> 03:22:52.193
wish to make a closing
statement before we wrap up.

03:22:55.503 --> 03:22:58.860
I see I'll save councilor Arroyo
for right before we close,

03:22:58.860 --> 03:23:00.820
councilor Annissa Essaibi-George.

03:23:00.820 --> 03:23:02.960
Thank you madam chair at this point

03:23:02.960 --> 03:23:04.920
and thank you to you and council Arroyo

03:23:04.920 --> 03:23:06.800
for bringing this before the council.

03:23:06.800 --> 03:23:11.350
I've really appreciated
everyone's testimony today

03:23:11.350 --> 03:23:13.130
in both hearings and sort of the,

03:23:13.130 --> 03:23:15.664
certainly a very direct correlation

03:23:15.664 --> 03:23:17.210
between some of the testimony today,

03:23:17.210 --> 03:23:19.480
but a particular interest of mine

03:23:19.480 --> 03:23:21.574
was the testimony of the young people

03:23:21.574 --> 03:23:23.290
and the testimony of the teachers,

03:23:23.290 --> 03:23:25.270
in particular...

03:23:25.270 --> 03:23:27.864
So just thank you, thank you both.

03:23:27.864 --> 03:23:32.020
Thank you councilor Wu for
staying after the chair

03:23:32.020 --> 03:23:34.010
had to leave to extend an opportunity

03:23:34.010 --> 03:23:36.030
for this continued testimony.

03:23:36.030 --> 03:23:40.350
It was certainly important testimony,

03:23:40.350 --> 03:23:43.730
but just the fact that everyone stayed on

03:23:43.730 --> 03:23:45.970
as long as they did to
offer that testimony,

03:23:45.970 --> 03:23:48.380
I think is really important to recognize,

03:23:48.380 --> 03:23:50.846
and to be grateful for that engagement.

03:23:50.846 --> 03:23:53.119
And thank you to you and
thank you to the maker.

03:23:53.119 --> 03:23:54.420
Thank you councilor

03:23:54.420 --> 03:23:58.237
and final closing words from
my co-sponsor councilor Arroyo.

03:23:59.890 --> 03:24:03.250
Just a sincere thank you to our panelists.

03:24:03.250 --> 03:24:04.680
I think many of them are off now,

03:24:04.680 --> 03:24:07.210
but thank you so much to them

03:24:07.210 --> 03:24:08.988
and everybody who gave testimony,

03:24:08.988 --> 03:24:11.610
much of that was deeply moving.

03:24:11.610 --> 03:24:13.170
Certainly Angel was a highlight.

03:24:13.170 --> 03:24:14.630
So thank you Angel,

03:24:14.630 --> 03:24:17.450
and anybody who can get
that message to Angel,

03:24:17.450 --> 03:24:18.900
I'm not sure if it's bedtime.

03:24:20.105 --> 03:24:22.155
Thank you so much for raising your voices

03:24:22.998 --> 03:24:25.710
and really being focused
at a real municipal level.

03:24:25.710 --> 03:24:28.047
This is what we've always asked for.

03:24:28.047 --> 03:24:30.900
This is what I grew up about Angel's age,

03:24:30.900 --> 03:24:32.180
watching these meetings

03:24:32.180 --> 03:24:34.820
and having folks basically beg

03:24:34.820 --> 03:24:38.090
for this kind of interaction
from our communities.

03:24:38.090 --> 03:24:39.810
And so I'm just deeply grateful

03:24:39.810 --> 03:24:43.030
that whatever brought
you here specifically,

03:24:43.030 --> 03:24:44.360
I hope you stay engaged.

03:24:44.360 --> 03:24:46.690
I hope you bring this
energy to other issues

03:24:46.690 --> 03:24:50.010
that really affect our
communities on a daily basis

03:24:50.010 --> 03:24:51.530
because it really makes change.

03:24:51.530 --> 03:24:53.426
It really changes things.

03:24:53.426 --> 03:24:56.490
And so thank you so much to
everybody who took part in this,

03:24:56.490 --> 03:24:59.080
thank you to all the
advocates as a part of this.

03:24:59.080 --> 03:25:01.140
Thank you councilor Wu for making sure

03:25:02.011 --> 03:25:03.766
that there was a chair here

03:25:03.766 --> 03:25:06.547
and to councilor Edwards first
running it so well earlier.

03:25:06.547 --> 03:25:07.620
But thank you to you for ensuring

03:25:07.620 --> 03:25:09.670
that we can continue to
hear public testimony

03:25:09.670 --> 03:25:11.735
because it really is valuable.

03:25:11.735 --> 03:25:13.920
So with that, I thought
that was all very valuable.

03:25:13.920 --> 03:25:15.050
And also thank you to the commissioner

03:25:15.050 --> 03:25:16.400
for taking the time to be here

03:25:16.400 --> 03:25:19.770
and to really endorse this idea.

03:25:19.770 --> 03:25:20.830
I thought that was fantastic.

03:25:20.830 --> 03:25:21.663
So thank you.

03:25:23.347 --> 03:25:26.620
Thank you, this is a great, great hearing.

03:25:26.620 --> 03:25:28.260
I think we all learned so much

03:25:28.260 --> 03:25:31.460
and I wanna echo the
thanks to the commissioner,

03:25:31.460 --> 03:25:33.840
all the community members who
gave feedback along the way

03:25:33.840 --> 03:25:37.370
and over this evening, my
colleagues, the commissioner,

03:25:37.370 --> 03:25:39.440
and of course, central staff,

03:25:39.440 --> 03:25:43.190
or for making sure all of it
went off very, very smoothly.

03:25:43.190 --> 03:25:45.390
So we'll circle back up
with the committee chair

03:25:45.390 --> 03:25:49.270
and figure out next steps,
but hoping for swift passage.

03:25:49.270 --> 03:25:51.360
And I'm very grateful again,

03:25:51.360 --> 03:25:54.290
that we have an opportunity
in Boston to take action.

03:25:54.290 --> 03:25:58.350
So this will conclude our
hearing on docket number 0683,

03:25:58.350 --> 03:26:01.220
on an ordinance banning
facial recognition technology

03:26:01.220 --> 03:26:02.090
in Boston.

03:26:02.090 --> 03:26:04.125
This hearing is adjourned.

03:26:04.125 --> 03:26:05.124
[gravel strikes]

03:26:05.124 --> 03:26:06.874
Bye, see you.
Bye.