1
00:00:01,620 --> 00:00:03,910
It will also be re
broadcasted at a later date

2
00:00:03,910 --> 00:00:08,877
on Comcast eight, RCN 82 SAS as per 196.

3
00:00:08,877 --> 00:00:10,730
For a public testimony written comments

4
00:00:10,730 --> 00:00:12,677
may be sent to the committee email

5
00:00:12,677 --> 00:00:15,870
@ccc.go@boston.gov

6
00:00:15,870 --> 00:00:18,710
and it will be made part
of the official record.

7
00:00:18,710 --> 00:00:19,730
This is an ordinance

8
00:00:19,730 --> 00:00:22,290
that would ban the use
of facial surveillance

9
00:00:22,290 --> 00:00:25,650
by the city of Boston or any
official in the city of Boston.

10
00:00:25,650 --> 00:00:27,130
The proposal would also prohibit

11
00:00:27,130 --> 00:00:29,010
entering into agreements, contracts

12
00:00:29,010 --> 00:00:32,170
to obtain face-to-face
surveillance with third parties.

13
00:00:32,170 --> 00:00:34,318
I'm gonna turn it now
over to the lead sponsors,

14
00:00:34,318 --> 00:00:37,970
councilor Wu and councilor Arroyo.

15
00:00:37,970 --> 00:00:39,390
And then I will turn it to my colleagues

16
00:00:39,390 --> 00:00:41,750
in order of arrival, for opening remarks.

17
00:00:41,750 --> 00:00:45,380
And just to acknowledge my colleagues

18
00:00:45,380 --> 00:00:48,130
and I believe the order that I had so far,

19
00:00:48,130 --> 00:00:51,890
again it will be councilor Arroyo,

20
00:00:51,890 --> 00:00:54,733
councilor Wu, councilor
Braden, councilor Bok,

21
00:00:55,580 --> 00:00:58,260
councilor Mejia, councilor Campbell,

22
00:00:58,260 --> 00:01:03,260
and then I had councilor
O'Malley, councilor Essaibi George

23
00:01:03,610 --> 00:01:05,860
and then I'm sorry, I started talking.

24
00:01:05,860 --> 00:01:07,973
So other councilors have joined us.

25
00:01:11,931 --> 00:01:13,835
MICHAEL: Good morning madam chair.

26
00:01:13,835 --> 00:01:15,440
Councilor Flaherty was before me

27
00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:17,220
councilor Edwards, thanks.

28
00:01:17,220 --> 00:01:18,917
I apologize councilor Flaherty,

29
00:01:18,917 --> 00:01:21,982
then councilor Campbell,
then counselor melody

30
00:01:21,982 --> 00:01:23,733
and councilor Essaibi George.

31
00:01:26,690 --> 00:01:28,940
I will not turn it over
to the lead sponsors.

32
00:01:29,790 --> 00:01:31,500
Does that start with me?

33
00:01:31,500 --> 00:01:32,420
CHAIR: Sure.

34
00:01:32,420 --> 00:01:34,240
Thank you, madam chair.

35
00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:36,260
I think we have excellent panelists

36
00:01:36,260 --> 00:01:38,800
to kind of go into the intricacies

37
00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:40,480
of the facial recognition ban.

38
00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:42,871
But to just kind of summarize it,

39
00:01:42,871 --> 00:01:45,970
this facial recognition band
creates a community process

40
00:01:46,984 --> 00:01:48,819
that makes our systems more inclusive

41
00:01:48,819 --> 00:01:50,630
of community consents while
adding democratic oversight,

42
00:01:50,630 --> 00:01:52,840
where there currently is none.

43
00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:53,890
We will be joining our neighbors

44
00:01:53,890 --> 00:01:55,979
and Cambridge and Somerville.

45
00:01:55,979 --> 00:01:58,610
And specifically when it comes
to facial recognition tech,

46
00:01:58,610 --> 00:02:01,100
it doesn't work, it's not good.

47
00:02:01,100 --> 00:02:03,720
It it's been proven through the data

48
00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:06,090
to be less accurate for
people with darker skin.

49
00:02:06,090 --> 00:02:09,900
A study by one of our
panelists Joy Buolamwini,

50
00:02:09,900 --> 00:02:11,220
researcher at MIT,

51
00:02:11,220 --> 00:02:12,053
found that black women

52
00:02:12,053 --> 00:02:13,960
were 35% more likely than white men

53
00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:16,426
to be misclassified by face
surveillance technology.

54
00:02:16,426 --> 00:02:18,730
The reality is that face surveillance

55
00:02:18,730 --> 00:02:21,683
isn't very effective in its current form.

56
00:02:24,333 --> 00:02:26,160
According to records obtained by the ACLU,

57
00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:28,850
one manufacturer promoting
this technology Massachusetts

58
00:02:28,850 --> 00:02:31,640
admitted that it might only
work about 30% of the time.

59
00:02:31,640 --> 00:02:34,370
Currently, my understanding

60
00:02:34,370 --> 00:02:37,530
is that the Boston Police
Department does not use this.

61
00:02:37,530 --> 00:02:39,430
This isn't a ban on surveillance.

62
00:02:39,430 --> 00:02:42,880
This is simply a ban on facial
recognition surveillance,

63
00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:45,550
which I think the data
has shown doesn't work.

64
00:02:45,550 --> 00:02:47,880
BPD doesn't use it because,

65
00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:50,920
and I will allow commissioner
Gross to speak on it.

66
00:02:50,920 --> 00:02:52,800
But my understanding from what I've heard

67
00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:53,990
and past comments from commissioner Gross

68
00:02:53,990 --> 00:02:55,840
is that they don't wanna use technology

69
00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:57,090
that doesn't work well.

70
00:02:57,090 --> 00:03:01,820
And so this ban necessarily
even a permanent ban,

71
00:03:01,820 --> 00:03:05,600
it just creates a process
where we are banning something

72
00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:07,033
that doesn't have to be process

73
00:03:07,033 --> 00:03:09,784
that doesn't have community trust

74
00:03:09,784 --> 00:03:12,005
and doesn't have community consent

75
00:03:12,005 --> 00:03:13,650
in which would require
some democratic oversight

76
00:03:13,650 --> 00:03:15,252
if they ever do want to implement it,

77
00:03:15,252 --> 00:03:16,085
if the technology in the
future ever does improve.

78
00:03:17,329 --> 00:03:18,710
And so with that, I see
the rest of my time.

79
00:03:18,710 --> 00:03:19,970
Thank you, madam chair.

80
00:03:19,970 --> 00:03:24,593
And thank you also to my
co-sponsor councilor Wu.

81
00:03:26,215 --> 00:03:28,615
Thank you very much madam chair.

82
00:03:28,615 --> 00:03:33,069
Thank you also to councilor Arroyo

83
00:03:33,069 --> 00:03:35,650
and all of the coalition partners

84
00:03:35,650 --> 00:03:39,120
that have been working
on this for many months

85
00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:42,493
and providing all sorts of
incredibly important feedback.

86
00:03:43,831 --> 00:03:47,680
We scheduled this hearing
many weeks ago at this point,

87
00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:48,820
I think over a month ago.

88
00:03:48,820 --> 00:03:52,800
And it just so happened that
the timing of it now has lined

89
00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:56,560
up with a moment of great national trauma.

90
00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:57,670
And in this moment,

91
00:03:57,670 --> 00:04:02,330
the responsibility is on
each one of us to step up,

92
00:04:02,330 --> 00:04:06,180
to truly address systemic
racism and systemic oppression,

93
00:04:06,180 --> 00:04:07,013
but the responsibilities,

94
00:04:07,013 --> 00:04:10,680
especially on elected
officials, policy makers,

95
00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,580
those of us who have the power

96
00:04:13,580 --> 00:04:16,346
and the ability to make change now.

97
00:04:16,346 --> 00:04:20,290
So I am proud that
Boston has the potential

98
00:04:20,290 --> 00:04:22,910
to join our sister cities
across Massachusetts

99
00:04:22,910 --> 00:04:26,017
in taking this immediate
step to ban a technology

100
00:04:26,017 --> 00:04:28,923
that has been proven to
be racially discriminatory

101
00:04:28,923 --> 00:04:33,420
and that threatens basic rights.

102
00:04:33,420 --> 00:04:35,609
We are thankful that Boston police

103
00:04:35,609 --> 00:04:37,150
agree with that assessment

104
00:04:37,150 --> 00:04:39,517
and do not use facial recognition,

105
00:04:39,517 --> 00:04:42,437
facial surveillance today in Boston,

106
00:04:42,437 --> 00:04:45,810
and are looking to
codify that understanding

107
00:04:45,810 --> 00:04:49,292
so that with the various
mechanisms for technology

108
00:04:49,292 --> 00:04:53,713
and upgrades and changing circumstances

109
00:04:53,713 --> 00:04:56,240
of different administrations
and personalities,

110
00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:58,060
that we just have it on the books

111
00:04:58,060 --> 00:05:00,070
that protections come first,

112
00:05:00,070 --> 00:05:02,460
because we truly believe
that public health

113
00:05:02,460 --> 00:05:05,570
and public safety should
be grounded in trust.

114
00:05:05,570 --> 00:05:09,550
So the chair gave a wonderful description

115
00:05:09,550 --> 00:05:11,190
of this ordinance.

116
00:05:11,190 --> 00:05:13,970
I am looking forward to the discussion,

117
00:05:13,970 --> 00:05:16,650
but most of all I'm grateful to colleagues

118
00:05:16,650 --> 00:05:18,100
and everyone has con who has contributed

119
00:05:18,100 --> 00:05:19,330
to this conversation,

120
00:05:19,330 --> 00:05:22,450
as well as the larger conversation about

121
00:05:22,450 --> 00:05:25,690
community centered
oversight of surveillance,

122
00:05:25,690 --> 00:05:29,220
which will be in a
separate but related docket

123
00:05:29,220 --> 00:05:30,770
that will be moving
forward on the council.

124
00:05:30,770 --> 00:05:31,770
Thank you very much.

125
00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:38,583
Councilor Breadon, opening remarks.

126
00:05:41,174 --> 00:05:43,693
Thank you.

127
00:05:43,693 --> 00:05:45,733
Thank you, madam chair,

128
00:05:45,733 --> 00:05:50,156
thank you to the makers of this ordinance.

129
00:05:50,156 --> 00:05:53,890
I really look forward to the
conversation this afternoon.

130
00:05:53,890 --> 00:05:57,090
I'm very proud to participate
in this discussion.

131
00:05:57,090 --> 00:06:00,830
I think it's the proper
and right thing to do

132
00:06:00,830 --> 00:06:05,096
to really consider deeply
all the implications

133
00:06:05,096 --> 00:06:07,230
of new technology that hasn't
been proven to be effective

134
00:06:07,230 --> 00:06:10,657
before introducing it in
any city in Massachusetts.

135
00:06:10,657 --> 00:06:13,610
So I really look forward to learning more

136
00:06:13,610 --> 00:06:16,907
and hearing from the panelists
this afternoon, thank you.

137
00:06:19,776 --> 00:06:21,776
CHAIR: Councilor Bok.

138
00:06:26,075 --> 00:06:27,079
Ah, yes.

139
00:06:27,079 --> 00:06:27,912
Thank you, madam chair.

140
00:06:27,912 --> 00:06:29,795
And I hope everyone will forgive me

141
00:06:29,795 --> 00:06:30,628
for being outside for a minute.

142
00:06:30,628 --> 00:06:32,260
I wanted to just say,

143
00:06:32,260 --> 00:06:34,040
I'm excited about this conversation today.

144
00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:35,870
I think it's a piece of action
we should absolutely take.

145
00:06:35,870 --> 00:06:37,170
And I just wanna say that,

146
00:06:38,060 --> 00:06:39,860
I think it's really important
that this technology

147
00:06:39,860 --> 00:06:41,080
has major shortcomings

148
00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:44,240
and that also it has a
racial bias builds into it.

149
00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:46,600
Those are really good
reasons not to use it,

150
00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:51,410
but honestly, even if those did not hold,

151
00:06:51,410 --> 00:06:52,899
I think that in this country,

152
00:06:52,899 --> 00:06:56,720
we run the risk sometimes of
just starting to do things

153
00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:59,180
that tech new technology can do,

154
00:06:59,180 --> 00:07:02,170
without asking ourselves like
as a democratic populous,

155
00:07:02,170 --> 00:07:04,655
as a community, is this
something that we should do?

156
00:07:04,655 --> 00:07:06,450
And I think in the process,

157
00:07:06,450 --> 00:07:07,910
we as Americans have given up

158
00:07:07,910 --> 00:07:09,970
a lot of our rights and privacy,

159
00:07:09,970 --> 00:07:13,350
frankly as often as not
to private corporations

160
00:07:13,350 --> 00:07:14,940
as to government.

161
00:07:14,940 --> 00:07:17,440
But I think that it's really important

162
00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:21,193
to just remember that there's
a true public interest

163
00:07:21,193 --> 00:07:24,560
in a society that is built more on trust

164
00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:25,440
than on surveillance.

165
00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:28,095
And so I think it's really important

166
00:07:28,095 --> 00:07:29,060
for us to draw this line in the sand

167
00:07:29,060 --> 00:07:31,610
so that if the technology improves

168
00:07:31,610 --> 00:07:32,890
and some of those arguments

169
00:07:32,890 --> 00:07:35,530
that are based on a kind
of its functionality

170
00:07:35,530 --> 00:07:37,860
start to slip away, that
we're still gonna have

171
00:07:37,860 --> 00:07:39,270
a real conversation together

172
00:07:39,270 --> 00:07:42,727
about how we wanna live in

173
00:07:42,727 --> 00:07:44,410
and what kind of a society we want to be.

174
00:07:44,410 --> 00:07:48,300
So to me, putting a
moratorium ban like this

175
00:07:48,300 --> 00:07:50,230
into place, makes a ton of sense.

176
00:07:50,230 --> 00:07:52,040
And I'm excited for the conversation

177
00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:53,460
and grateful to all the advocates.

178
00:07:53,460 --> 00:07:54,910
Thank you so much madam chair

179
00:07:56,180 --> 00:07:57,677
Thank you.

180
00:07:57,677 --> 00:07:59,010
Councilor Mejia.

181
00:08:02,780 --> 00:08:04,130
Yes, thank you.

182
00:08:04,130 --> 00:08:06,090
Sorry about my audio.

183
00:08:06,090 --> 00:08:10,210
Thank you chair, women Edwards,

184
00:08:10,210 --> 00:08:12,220
and thank you to the makers, councilor Wu,

185
00:08:12,220 --> 00:08:14,830
and I applaud you for your
leadership on this issue.

186
00:08:14,830 --> 00:08:17,170
For me this issue is
personal and professional

187
00:08:17,170 --> 00:08:19,481
as a Dominican woman who
claims a black boots.

188
00:08:19,481 --> 00:08:21,680
Facial recognition technology

189
00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:24,613
misidentifies people like me by 35%.

190
00:08:24,613 --> 00:08:26,680
We're in a time where our technology

191
00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:28,840
is outpacing our morals.

192
00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:32,570
We've got a 2020 technology
with a 1620 state of mind,

193
00:08:32,570 --> 00:08:35,360
but that's thinking.

194
00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:38,220
As a city, we need to
practice extreme caution

195
00:08:38,220 --> 00:08:40,583
over facial recognition technology.

196
00:08:40,583 --> 00:08:42,370
And we should be concerned

197
00:08:42,370 --> 00:08:45,150
not only with this technology goes wrong,

198
00:08:45,150 --> 00:08:46,950
but also when it goes right.

199
00:08:46,950 --> 00:08:48,090
We have a lot of work to do

200
00:08:48,090 --> 00:08:50,880
when it comes to building
trust in our government.

201
00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:54,056
Working against this facial
recognition technology

202
00:08:54,056 --> 00:08:56,854
is a good step and I'm happy to hear

203
00:08:56,854 --> 00:08:59,410
there's pushback against
this kind of surveillance

204
00:08:59,410 --> 00:09:01,400
on all sides of the issue.

205
00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:03,820
Like the makers of the
ordinance mentioned,

206
00:09:03,820 --> 00:09:06,950
now, right now, there's not a desire

207
00:09:06,950 --> 00:09:09,280
to put facial recognition
technology in place.

208
00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:13,677
And this ordinance is an
opportunity to put that into law.

209
00:09:15,850 --> 00:09:17,690
I look forward to the discussion

210
00:09:17,690 --> 00:09:19,660
and I hope to continue
to push on this issue

211
00:09:19,660 --> 00:09:22,090
alongside councilor Wu and Arroyo,

212
00:09:22,090 --> 00:09:23,223
thank you so much.

213
00:09:25,940 --> 00:09:27,290
Thank you very much.

214
00:09:27,290 --> 00:09:28,753
Councilor Flaherty.

215
00:09:28,753 --> 00:09:30,067
MICHAEL: Thank you madam chair

216
00:09:30,067 --> 00:09:32,033
and the sponsors for this hearing.

217
00:09:32,033 --> 00:09:35,740
As I've stated in the past
the technology updates

218
00:09:35,740 --> 00:09:39,232
and advances have provided
us with many advantages,

219
00:09:39,232 --> 00:09:41,510
but at the same time,

220
00:09:41,510 --> 00:09:44,300
they've also proven to be deeply flawed,

221
00:09:44,300 --> 00:09:46,436
unreliable and disproportionally impacting

222
00:09:46,436 --> 00:09:48,940
communities of color.

223
00:09:48,940 --> 00:09:49,773
This technology,

224
00:09:49,773 --> 00:09:51,920
just for everyone's full
disclosure if you listening,

225
00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:56,320
this technology is currently
not being used by the BPD

226
00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:59,597
for that reason and CAC
commissioner is here

227
00:09:59,597 --> 00:10:02,276
and good afternoon to the commissioner.

228
00:10:02,276 --> 00:10:04,520
I appreciate the work
that you've been doing

229
00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:05,353
through all of this.

230
00:10:05,353 --> 00:10:07,520
Whether it's just the
day-to-day public safety,

231
00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:08,540
rigors of your job,

232
00:10:08,540 --> 00:10:10,880
or it's been through
the COVID-19 response,

233
00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:13,870
or it's been, most recently and tragically

234
00:10:13,870 --> 00:10:18,240
in response to George
Floyd's horrific death

235
00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:22,070
and everything that has come from that.

236
00:10:22,070 --> 00:10:22,903
I wanna make sure

237
00:10:22,903 --> 00:10:27,800
that I'm gonna continue
to remain supportive

238
00:10:29,170 --> 00:10:32,520
of setting transparent limits
in creating a public process

239
00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:36,320
by which we assess the
use of these technologies.

240
00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:38,910
I know that we've been able
to solve a lot of crimes

241
00:10:38,910 --> 00:10:40,560
through video surveillance

242
00:10:40,560 --> 00:10:42,610
and also through video, quite frankly,

243
00:10:42,610 --> 00:10:47,090
and also they've led
to justice for families

244
00:10:47,090 --> 00:10:50,376
and someone that has lost
a cousin due to murder,

245
00:10:50,376 --> 00:10:54,017
but for, it was surveillance

246
00:10:54,017 --> 00:10:58,630
and it was DNA that led to
my family getting justice.

247
00:10:58,630 --> 00:11:02,680
So looking forward to
learning more about this

248
00:11:02,680 --> 00:11:05,060
and the commissioner's perspective on it,

249
00:11:05,060 --> 00:11:08,050
but also recognizing that collectively

250
00:11:08,050 --> 00:11:10,480
we need to make sure that
we're putting forth decisions

251
00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:13,195
that make the most sense for Boston.

252
00:11:13,195 --> 00:11:15,930
I'll get real parochial here.

253
00:11:15,930 --> 00:11:18,933
Quite frankly, I'm not really
concerned about Cambridge

254
00:11:18,933 --> 00:11:20,579
and Somerville, I wanna make sure

255
00:11:20,579 --> 00:11:22,518
that whatever we're doing
in Boston is impacting

256
00:11:22,518 --> 00:11:23,598
all of our neighborhoods.

257
00:11:23,598 --> 00:11:24,875
The neighborhoods that I represent

258
00:11:24,875 --> 00:11:26,216
as a city wide city councilor.

259
00:11:26,216 --> 00:11:28,440
And making sure that we
have community input,

260
00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:29,273
most importantly.

261
00:11:29,273 --> 00:11:31,327
We work for the people
of Boston, as council

262
00:11:31,327 --> 00:11:33,854
and obviously as the
commissioner of police officers,

263
00:11:33,854 --> 00:11:36,800
we work for the residents and
the taxpayers of our city.

264
00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:38,969
So they need a seat at the table

265
00:11:38,969 --> 00:11:39,802
and we wanna to hear from them.

266
00:11:39,802 --> 00:11:41,410
If the technology enhances

267
00:11:41,410 --> 00:11:43,630
and it help us is public
safety tool, great.

268
00:11:43,630 --> 00:11:45,390
But as the time stands,

269
00:11:45,390 --> 00:11:49,190
it's still unreliable and
there are flaws to it.

270
00:11:49,190 --> 00:11:51,795
So as a result that's
where I'm gonna be on this.

271
00:11:51,795 --> 00:11:52,895
Thank you madam chair.

272
00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:55,280
Thank you very much.

273
00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:56,423
Councilor Campbell.

274
00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:02,958
Thank you, madam chair and thank you,

275
00:12:02,958 --> 00:12:04,433
I know you're gonna run a tight ship

276
00:12:04,433 --> 00:12:05,830
given what's all that's happening today,

277
00:12:05,830 --> 00:12:08,190
including the funeral, of
course for George Floyd.

278
00:12:08,190 --> 00:12:09,483
So thank you very much.

279
00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:11,193
Thank you also to, of course,

280
00:12:11,193 --> 00:12:13,410
to the commissioner for being here,

281
00:12:13,410 --> 00:12:15,100
given all that's going on.

282
00:12:15,100 --> 00:12:16,410
I know you've been on
the record in the past

283
00:12:16,410 --> 00:12:17,999
with respect to this issue

284
00:12:17,999 --> 00:12:20,550
and that not only does the
department not have it,

285
00:12:20,550 --> 00:12:23,100
but you understand the flaws of it.

286
00:12:23,100 --> 00:12:24,920
So thank you for being here.

287
00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:27,630
Thank you to my council colleagues,

288
00:12:27,630 --> 00:12:29,197
but als most importantly the makers

289
00:12:29,197 --> 00:12:30,537
for putting this forward.

290
00:12:30,537 --> 00:12:33,700
I have been supportive of
this since the very beginning,

291
00:12:33,700 --> 00:12:34,830
when I hosted,

292
00:12:34,830 --> 00:12:36,943
along with councilor Wu
and counselor McCarthy,

293
00:12:36,943 --> 00:12:38,400
a hearing on this very issue

294
00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:42,250
along with some other
surveillance technologies

295
00:12:42,250 --> 00:12:44,470
and things that were possibly
coming down the pipe.

296
00:12:44,470 --> 00:12:46,438
So this was an opportunity for us

297
00:12:46,438 --> 00:12:49,910
to have this conversation on
what we could do proactively

298
00:12:49,910 --> 00:12:53,030
to make sure that surveillance tools

299
00:12:53,030 --> 00:12:56,410
were not put into place without
a robust community process.

300
00:12:56,410 --> 00:12:58,140
And of course, council input.

301
00:12:58,140 --> 00:13:01,100
So back then I supported
it and I support it now.

302
00:13:01,100 --> 00:13:03,680
Again thank you commissioner,
thank you to your team,

303
00:13:03,680 --> 00:13:06,600
thank you to the makers
and thank you madam chair.

304
00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:08,150
And Aiden also says, thank you.

305
00:13:11,050 --> 00:13:13,240
Thank you Aiden and thank
you councilor Campbell.

306
00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:15,070
councilor O'Malley.

307
00:13:15,070 --> 00:13:16,560
Thank you madam chair.

308
00:13:16,560 --> 00:13:20,200
Just very briefly wanna thank the makers,

309
00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:23,380
councilor Wu and Arroyo
for their leadership here.

310
00:13:23,380 --> 00:13:26,556
Obviously I support the
facial recognition ban.

311
00:13:26,556 --> 00:13:31,240
Also grateful, wanna echo my
thanks to the commissioner

312
00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:33,810
for his comments and his opposition,

313
00:13:33,810 --> 00:13:35,688
the fact that this isn't used.

314
00:13:35,688 --> 00:13:37,460
So it's important that we
codified that in such a way,

315
00:13:37,460 --> 00:13:39,455
which again is the purpose of this hearing

316
00:13:39,455 --> 00:13:41,570
and this ordinance and
stand ready, willing

317
00:13:41,570 --> 00:13:43,495
and able to get to work.

318
00:13:43,495 --> 00:13:44,493
Thank you and look forward

319
00:13:44,493 --> 00:13:46,160
to hearing from a number of residents,

320
00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:48,830
our panelists, as well as a
public testimony after, thanks.

321
00:13:48,830 --> 00:13:52,050
Thank you very much,
councilor Essaibi George.

322
00:13:52,050 --> 00:13:52,883
Thank you madam chair,

323
00:13:52,883 --> 00:13:54,730
and thank you to the commissioner

324
00:13:54,730 --> 00:13:55,980
for being with us this afternoon.

325
00:13:55,980 --> 00:13:57,530
I look forward to hearing from him

326
00:13:57,530 --> 00:14:00,580
and from the panelists discussing
this ordinance further.

327
00:14:00,580 --> 00:14:02,220
I think that it is necessary

328
00:14:02,220 --> 00:14:05,090
to ban this technology at this point.

329
00:14:05,090 --> 00:14:09,060
I think that our colleagues
have brought to the forefront,

330
00:14:09,060 --> 00:14:11,530
over the last few years
as have the advocates,

331
00:14:11,530 --> 00:14:14,732
around the concerns regarding
this kind of technology.

332
00:14:14,732 --> 00:14:19,732
I appreciate the real concerns
around accuracy and biases

333
00:14:21,090 --> 00:14:24,380
against people of color
women, children, the elderly,

334
00:14:24,380 --> 00:14:29,134
and certainly reflective
of our city's residents.

335
00:14:29,134 --> 00:14:32,437
So we need to make sure
that we're proactive

336
00:14:32,437 --> 00:14:34,920
and protecting our residents

337
00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:37,250
and having a deeper understanding

338
00:14:37,250 --> 00:14:39,440
and appreciation of this technology

339
00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:41,810
and understanding what
this ordinance would mean

340
00:14:41,810 --> 00:14:45,436
around that ban and
following through with it.

341
00:14:45,436 --> 00:14:46,420
Thank you ma'am chair.

342
00:14:46,420 --> 00:14:47,470
Thank you very much.

343
00:14:47,470 --> 00:14:50,040
I understand councilor
Flynn is trying to get in

344
00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:51,797
and there might be a limits.

345
00:14:51,797 --> 00:14:53,260
I'm just saying that for our tech folks.

346
00:14:53,260 --> 00:14:55,150
In the meantime, I'm
going to read a letter

347
00:14:55,150 --> 00:14:58,275
from city council president Kim Janey,

348
00:14:58,275 --> 00:15:01,290
"Dear chairwoman Edwards, due
to technical difficulties,

349
00:15:01,290 --> 00:15:04,980
I'm unable to log in for
today's hearing on docket 0683,

350
00:15:04,980 --> 00:15:06,010
regarding an ordinance

351
00:15:06,010 --> 00:15:08,870
banning facial recognition
technology in Boston.

352
00:15:08,870 --> 00:15:11,430
I will continue to work on
the technical challenges

353
00:15:11,430 --> 00:15:13,720
on my end and we'll join
the hearing at a later time

354
00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:16,090
if I am able, if I'm unable to join,

355
00:15:16,090 --> 00:15:18,760
I'll review the recording at a later time.

356
00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:21,490
I want to thank the makers
councilors Wu and Arroyo

357
00:15:21,490 --> 00:15:23,910
for their advocacy and
continued leadership

358
00:15:23,910 --> 00:15:25,360
on this critical issue.

359
00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:26,757
I especially want to
thank all the advocates

360
00:15:26,757 --> 00:15:28,320
who are participating

361
00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:31,310
for their tireless advocacy on this issue.

362
00:15:31,310 --> 00:15:32,960
I look forward to working with advocates

363
00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:34,370
to incorporate their ideas

364
00:15:34,370 --> 00:15:36,378
and how we can push this
issue moving forward.

365
00:15:36,378 --> 00:15:39,240
It is clear we need policies in place

366
00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:41,460
to protect communities that
are vulnerable to technologies

367
00:15:41,460 --> 00:15:42,890
that are biased against them.

368
00:15:42,890 --> 00:15:44,500
I look forward to working
with my colleagues

369
00:15:44,500 --> 00:15:45,527
on this critical issue,

370
00:15:45,527 --> 00:15:47,420
and we'll continue to fight for an agenda

371
00:15:47,420 --> 00:15:50,300
that promotes and protects black lives.

372
00:15:50,300 --> 00:15:52,130
Please read this letter
into the record, thank you."

373
00:15:52,130 --> 00:15:53,373
Sincerely Kim Janey.

374
00:15:54,220 --> 00:15:56,296
I'm not sure if we've been
joined by councilor Flynn.

375
00:15:56,296 --> 00:15:59,623
I do know he was trying to get in.

376
00:16:03,598 --> 00:16:05,010
In the meantime I did want to just do

377
00:16:05,010 --> 00:16:08,840
some quick housekeeping as part
of my introductory remarks.

378
00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:11,430
Just to let people know again,

379
00:16:11,430 --> 00:16:12,920
today's hearing is specifically

380
00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:14,390
about this proposed ordinance

381
00:16:14,390 --> 00:16:16,850
that would ban facial
recognition technology.

382
00:16:16,850 --> 00:16:21,270
We had a robust conversation
about defunding the police,

383
00:16:21,270 --> 00:16:23,476
discussing all aspects of the budget,

384
00:16:23,476 --> 00:16:25,740
all of those different things just happen

385
00:16:25,740 --> 00:16:28,330
and it was chaired by councilor Bok.

386
00:16:28,330 --> 00:16:32,140
And I wanna make sure that
our conversations are related,

387
00:16:32,140 --> 00:16:35,610
that we do not take this precious
moment on this legislation

388
00:16:35,610 --> 00:16:40,059
and have it covered up by
the other conversation.

389
00:16:40,059 --> 00:16:43,210
I just want you to know that

390
00:16:43,210 --> 00:16:45,790
and again, I will move the conversation

391
00:16:45,790 --> 00:16:47,610
towards this ordinance.

392
00:16:47,610 --> 00:16:49,160
There should be a copy of it.

393
00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:50,910
People should have the ability

394
00:16:50,910 --> 00:16:53,161
to discuss about this
language in this ordinance.

395
00:16:53,161 --> 00:16:55,303
Questions I have,

396
00:16:55,303 --> 00:16:58,900
I do want to talk about,
whether time is of the essence.

397
00:16:58,900 --> 00:17:00,520
There seem to been some issue,

398
00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:03,260
I'm concerned about whether
we were entering a contract

399
00:17:03,260 --> 00:17:04,310
that allowed for this.

400
00:17:04,310 --> 00:17:05,600
So when the commissioner speaks,

401
00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:08,490
I'd like for him to speak on that.

402
00:17:08,490 --> 00:17:12,080
I'm not sure if there's a
contract pending what's going on.

403
00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:14,541
I also wanna make sure
that folks understand

404
00:17:14,541 --> 00:17:16,700
due to the fact that I think

405
00:17:16,700 --> 00:17:19,795
we have possibly a hundred
people signed up to speak.

406
00:17:19,795 --> 00:17:21,870
We have a lot of folks

407
00:17:21,870 --> 00:17:23,410
who are gonna be speaking on the panel.

408
00:17:23,410 --> 00:17:26,220
I'm going to limit my
colleagues to three minutes

409
00:17:26,220 --> 00:17:27,380
in their first round.

410
00:17:27,380 --> 00:17:30,560
And I'm gonna get the
public to no more than two.

411
00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:32,920
And I'm gonna try my best
to get through that list.

412
00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:35,850
So I see we've been
joined by councilor Flynn,

413
00:17:35,850 --> 00:17:38,300
councilor Flynn, do you
have any opening remarks?

414
00:17:45,730 --> 00:17:47,070
Thank you.

415
00:17:47,070 --> 00:17:49,700
Thank you, counsel Edwards,

416
00:17:49,700 --> 00:17:54,700
and to the sponsors and looking
forward to this hearing,

417
00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:59,860
learning, learning more about the proposal

418
00:18:01,242 --> 00:18:04,160
and also interested in hearing

419
00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:09,160
from the commissioner of
police, commissioner Gross

420
00:18:09,930 --> 00:18:14,158
and with the public as well.

421
00:18:14,158 --> 00:18:19,158
Again, this is an issue that's
that we all can learn from.

422
00:18:21,490 --> 00:18:25,280
We can listen to each
other, we can be respectful

423
00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:28,130
and hear each other's point of view.

424
00:18:28,130 --> 00:18:29,750
And that's what this city is all about,

425
00:18:29,750 --> 00:18:34,150
is coming together and
treating each other fairly.

426
00:18:34,150 --> 00:18:37,637
And with respect, especially
during difficult days

427
00:18:37,637 --> 00:18:40,070
and on and on difficult issues.

428
00:18:40,070 --> 00:18:43,500
I also know that our police commissioner

429
00:18:43,500 --> 00:18:47,840
is someone that also listens to people

430
00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:51,360
and he's in the neighborhoods and he talks

431
00:18:51,360 --> 00:18:55,000
and listens to a lot of the
concerns of the residents.

432
00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,120
That's what I like most about
the police commissioner,

433
00:18:58,120 --> 00:19:01,130
is his ability to listen
and treat people freely.

434
00:19:01,130 --> 00:19:03,830
Again, I'm here to listen
and learn about the proposal.

435
00:19:03,830 --> 00:19:06,070
Thank you councilor Edwards
for your strong leadership.

436
00:19:06,070 --> 00:19:07,850
Thank you councilor Flynn.

437
00:19:07,850 --> 00:19:09,670
I just wanna let people know,

438
00:19:09,670 --> 00:19:12,823
we actually have a a hundred
percent limit on the Zoom.

439
00:19:12,823 --> 00:19:14,500
We have 118 people trying to get in.

440
00:19:14,500 --> 00:19:15,840
So once you've testified,

441
00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:17,703
could you at least sign out,

442
00:19:18,692 --> 00:19:19,580
that allows for other people to get in.

443
00:19:19,580 --> 00:19:21,810
Commissioner Gross you've been waiting.

444
00:19:21,810 --> 00:19:23,950
So I'm gonna turn the
microphone over to you.

445
00:19:23,950 --> 00:19:27,350
I'm gonna ask you get
right to the ordinance

446
00:19:27,350 --> 00:19:29,690
and get to the trends
and thoughts on that.

447
00:19:29,690 --> 00:19:32,060
I'm happy to discuss any procedure.

448
00:19:32,060 --> 00:19:33,890
Then we're gonna try
and get to the panelists

449
00:19:33,890 --> 00:19:36,700
and move back to the city
council while you're still here.

450
00:19:36,700 --> 00:19:38,877
Okay.
Yes, thank you.

451
00:19:42,470 --> 00:19:44,310
Good afternoon everyone.

452
00:19:44,310 --> 00:19:49,310
And God bless Mr. George
Floyd, may he rest in peace.

453
00:19:50,120 --> 00:19:52,820
And for the record, I'm proud of Boston,

454
00:19:52,820 --> 00:19:56,590
as they paid great homage
and peaceful protest

455
00:19:56,590 --> 00:20:00,370
and anything we can do to
move our department forward,

456
00:20:00,370 --> 00:20:02,090
working with our community.

457
00:20:02,090 --> 00:20:03,330
You have it on record right here,

458
00:20:03,330 --> 00:20:05,230
and now I'm willing to
work with you councilors,

459
00:20:05,230 --> 00:20:07,720
the mayor, in our great city.

460
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:08,583
So, thank you.

461
00:20:09,570 --> 00:20:13,360
So I will start and thank you the chair

462
00:20:13,360 --> 00:20:15,862
and the committee members and the makers,

463
00:20:15,862 --> 00:20:18,223
councilor Wu and Arroyo.

464
00:20:19,930 --> 00:20:22,150
I really thank you for
inviting me to participate

465
00:20:22,150 --> 00:20:24,370
in today's hearing regarding the ordinance

466
00:20:24,370 --> 00:20:28,638
banning facial recognition
technology in Boston.

467
00:20:28,638 --> 00:20:31,670
As you can imagine the
Boston Police Department

468
00:20:31,670 --> 00:20:33,990
has been extremely busy
meeting the current demands

469
00:20:33,990 --> 00:20:37,640
of public safety from
the COVID-19 pandemic

470
00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:39,580
and the public rallies.

471
00:20:39,580 --> 00:20:42,110
However, the department and I understand

472
00:20:42,110 --> 00:20:45,800
the importance of the given topic,

473
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:46,840
I would like to request

474
00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,630
that hearing remain on the given topic

475
00:20:49,630 --> 00:20:52,670
and that we work together
to find other times

476
00:20:52,670 --> 00:20:56,170
to discuss the important issues
regarding police relations,

477
00:20:56,170 --> 00:20:58,825
national issues on police reform

478
00:20:58,825 --> 00:21:01,331
and the ways that we can improve

479
00:21:01,331 --> 00:21:04,923
our relationships here in Boston.

480
00:21:06,430 --> 00:21:08,310
As has been practiced in the past,

481
00:21:08,310 --> 00:21:10,020
we welcome a future opportunity

482
00:21:10,020 --> 00:21:12,053
to discuss the ordinance language

483
00:21:12,053 --> 00:21:15,690
and city council concerns
in a working session

484
00:21:15,690 --> 00:21:18,060
regarding technology policy

485
00:21:18,060 --> 00:21:20,592
and potential privacy concerns.

486
00:21:20,592 --> 00:21:24,946
My testimony today is meant
to serve as a background

487
00:21:24,946 --> 00:21:27,570
to BPD current practices

488
00:21:27,570 --> 00:21:31,143
and identify potential
technological needs.

489
00:21:32,051 --> 00:21:34,330
The department for the record,

490
00:21:34,330 --> 00:21:36,380
does not currently have the technology

491
00:21:36,380 --> 00:21:37,883
for facial recognition.

492
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:41,840
As technology advances however,

493
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:45,330
many vendors have and will
continue to incorporate

494
00:21:45,330 --> 00:21:49,243
automated recognition abilities.

495
00:21:50,100 --> 00:21:52,360
We have prohibited these features

496
00:21:52,360 --> 00:21:55,020
as we have moved along in our advancements

497
00:21:55,020 --> 00:21:58,290
with the intention to have rich
dialogue with the community

498
00:21:58,290 --> 00:22:03,003
prior to any acquisition
of such a technology.

499
00:22:04,410 --> 00:22:07,540
Video has proven to be one
of the most effective tools

500
00:22:07,540 --> 00:22:10,870
for collecting evidence
of criminal offenses,

501
00:22:10,870 --> 00:22:13,090
for solving crimes and locating missing

502
00:22:13,090 --> 00:22:15,640
and exploited individuals.

503
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:18,720
Any prohibitions on
these investigative tools

504
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,710
without a full understanding
of potential uses

505
00:22:21,710 --> 00:22:23,440
under strict protocols,

506
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:25,610
could be harmful and impede our ability

507
00:22:25,610 --> 00:22:26,893
to protect the public.

508
00:22:28,370 --> 00:22:32,120
The proposed ordinance defines
facial surveillance to mean,

509
00:22:32,120 --> 00:22:35,650
an automatic automated
or semi-automated process

510
00:22:35,650 --> 00:22:40,500
that assist in identifying
or verifying an individual

511
00:22:40,500 --> 00:22:43,540
or in capturing information
about an individual

512
00:22:43,540 --> 00:22:45,508
based on the physical characteristics

513
00:22:45,508 --> 00:22:48,003
of an individual's face.

514
00:22:51,441 --> 00:22:53,097
And to be clear,

515
00:22:53,097 --> 00:22:54,837
that department has no desire

516
00:22:54,837 --> 00:22:56,640
to employ a facial surveillance system

517
00:22:58,110 --> 00:23:01,330
to generally surveil
the citizens of Boston.

518
00:23:01,330 --> 00:23:03,640
The department however notes a distinction

519
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,260
between facial surveillance systems

520
00:23:06,260 --> 00:23:08,493
and facial recognition technology.

521
00:23:09,350 --> 00:23:10,230
The department believes

522
00:23:10,230 --> 00:23:13,250
that the term facial
recognition technology

523
00:23:13,250 --> 00:23:16,550
better describes the investigative nature

524
00:23:16,550 --> 00:23:19,623
of the technology we believe
would be useful to the city,

525
00:23:20,635 --> 00:23:23,393
with the right safeguards
and community input.

526
00:23:24,470 --> 00:23:25,960
The department would,

527
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,960
as technology advances
and becomes more reliable,

528
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:31,850
like the opportunity to
discuss the utilization

529
00:23:31,850 --> 00:23:34,724
of facial recognition technology

530
00:23:34,724 --> 00:23:39,724
to respond to specific crimes
and emergency situations.

531
00:23:41,340 --> 00:23:44,419
And I would like to
revisit everyone's thoughts

532
00:23:44,419 --> 00:23:47,690
and remembrances of the Boston Marathon

533
00:23:47,690 --> 00:23:49,853
and the most recent kidnappings.

534
00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:55,510
Facial recognition technology
to the best of our knowledge,

535
00:23:55,510 --> 00:23:57,590
will greatly reduced the hours necessary

536
00:23:57,590 --> 00:24:00,320
to review video evidence.

537
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:04,440
This would also allow
investigators to move more quickly,

538
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:06,760
identify victims, missing persons

539
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:10,970
or suspects of crime through
citywide camera recordings.

540
00:24:10,970 --> 00:24:13,760
This technology, if acquired

541
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,160
would also allow for the compilation

542
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,853
and condensing a video to
be done more efficiently.

543
00:24:21,950 --> 00:24:23,670
Facial recognition technology

544
00:24:23,670 --> 00:24:25,620
used with well-established guidelines

545
00:24:25,620 --> 00:24:27,440
and under strict review,

546
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:29,380
can also provide a safer environment

547
00:24:29,380 --> 00:24:31,163
for all in the city of Boston.

548
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:34,682
Creating a system in
which evidence is reviewed

549
00:24:34,682 --> 00:24:37,540
in a timely manner and efficiently

550
00:24:37,540 --> 00:24:40,380
allows for police to intervene

551
00:24:40,380 --> 00:24:45,380
and reduce levels of
crime would be beneficial.

552
00:24:45,458 --> 00:24:49,846
The department rejects any
notion in the ordinance

553
00:24:49,846 --> 00:24:54,846
that would whatever use
facial recognition technology

554
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:58,790
in our response to COVID-19 pandemic.

555
00:24:58,790 --> 00:25:00,620
And just for the record,

556
00:25:00,620 --> 00:25:01,830
I'd like to repeat that,

557
00:25:01,830 --> 00:25:04,820
the department rejects any
notion in the ordinance

558
00:25:04,820 --> 00:25:09,420
that we are or will ever use
facial recognition technology

559
00:25:09,420 --> 00:25:12,063
in our response to COVID-19 pandemic.

560
00:25:13,978 --> 00:25:14,811
Finally,

561
00:25:18,645 --> 00:25:20,760
it is important to note,

562
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:24,440
the department shares the
concerns of our community

563
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:27,360
and our community concerns around privacy

564
00:25:27,360 --> 00:25:29,643
and intrusive surveillance,

565
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:34,090
as it is the current practice
with existing technology,

566
00:25:34,090 --> 00:25:35,590
our intentions are to implement

567
00:25:35,590 --> 00:25:37,950
any potential future advances

568
00:25:37,950 --> 00:25:40,610
in facial recognition technology,

569
00:25:40,610 --> 00:25:43,461
through well-defined
protocols and procedures.

570
00:25:43,461 --> 00:25:47,040
Some areas we consider, excuse me,

571
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,870
some areas we consider this
technology may be beneficial,

572
00:25:49,870 --> 00:25:52,260
are in identifying the route

573
00:25:52,260 --> 00:25:54,200
and locations of missing persons,

574
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:57,390
including the suffering from
Alzheimer's and dementia,

575
00:25:57,390 --> 00:26:00,940
those suffering from
Alzheimer's and dementia.

576
00:26:00,940 --> 00:26:04,127
As well, missing children,
kidnapped individuals,

577
00:26:04,127 --> 00:26:06,620
human trafficking victims,

578
00:26:06,620 --> 00:26:09,840
and the suspects of
assaults and shootings.

579
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:14,503
Also the victims of
homicide and domestic abuse.

580
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:19,170
Important to know,

581
00:26:19,170 --> 00:26:22,560
we would like to work with
the council and our partners

582
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:24,862
to clearly articulate the language

583
00:26:24,862 --> 00:26:27,521
that could best describe these uses.

584
00:26:27,521 --> 00:26:30,590
In section B2 with the proposed ordinance

585
00:26:30,590 --> 00:26:33,000
that indicates there is some intention

586
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,690
to account for the use of this technology

587
00:26:35,690 --> 00:26:37,320
to advance investigations

588
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:39,480
but the department police
some additional language

589
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:43,573
referencing permitted uses is necessary.

590
00:26:44,761 --> 00:26:48,770
We as well, would
appreciate a working session

591
00:26:48,770 --> 00:26:51,380
within the next 60 days,

592
00:26:51,380 --> 00:26:55,350
to draft language that we
can collectively present

593
00:26:55,350 --> 00:26:58,990
to constituents and
requesting interest groups

594
00:26:58,990 --> 00:27:01,263
for feedback and input.

595
00:27:02,660 --> 00:27:05,130
We also plan to use the public testimony

596
00:27:05,130 --> 00:27:07,350
being provided in today's hearing

597
00:27:07,350 --> 00:27:09,513
to assist in our decision-making.

598
00:27:10,410 --> 00:27:12,610
I'd like to thank you for this opportunity

599
00:27:12,610 --> 00:27:14,620
to provide this testimony

600
00:27:14,620 --> 00:27:16,740
and your continued interest and time

601
00:27:16,740 --> 00:27:18,898
in creating public forums,

602
00:27:18,898 --> 00:27:21,583
around police technology and advancements.

603
00:27:22,810 --> 00:27:25,560
That's my official
statement that I read in.

604
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:29,100
And I'm telling you right now
as an African-American male,

605
00:27:29,100 --> 00:27:32,110
the technology that is in place today

606
00:27:32,110 --> 00:27:35,500
does not meet the standards of
the Boston Police Department,

607
00:27:35,500 --> 00:27:37,900
nor does it meet my standards.

608
00:27:37,900 --> 00:27:39,470
And until technology advances

609
00:27:39,470 --> 00:27:42,770
to a point where it is more reliable,

610
00:27:42,770 --> 00:27:46,463
again, we will need your
input, your guidance,

611
00:27:46,463 --> 00:27:50,920
and we'll work together
to pick that technology

612
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:55,164
which is more conducive to our privacy

613
00:27:55,164 --> 00:27:59,243
and our rights as citizens
of Boston, thank you.

614
00:28:01,690 --> 00:28:03,850
Thank you very much commissioner Gross.

615
00:28:03,850 --> 00:28:06,520
Do you, just before I go on,

616
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:08,927
we're gonna go now to Joy Buolamwini

617
00:28:12,120 --> 00:28:13,800
and I am so sorry for that Joy.

618
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,890
I apologize profusely for the
butchering of your last name.

619
00:28:16,890 --> 00:28:21,582
My'kel McMillen, Karina
Ham, Kade Crawford, Kate,

620
00:28:21,582 --> 00:28:26,120
Erik Berg, and Joshua Barocas.

621
00:28:27,090 --> 00:28:30,337
But I wanted to ask the
commissioner just very quickly,

622
00:28:30,337 --> 00:28:33,210
you said you have suggested language

623
00:28:33,210 --> 00:28:36,897
or that you would want to work
on suggested language for B2.

624
00:28:36,897 --> 00:28:39,010
No, I would want to work on it.

625
00:28:39,010 --> 00:28:42,242
So keep in mind anything
we do going forward,

626
00:28:42,242 --> 00:28:44,670
as I promised for the last four years,

627
00:28:44,670 --> 00:28:47,258
we want your input and your guidance.

628
00:28:47,258 --> 00:28:50,430
Councilor Mejia you hit it on point.

629
00:28:50,430 --> 00:28:52,730
This technology is not fair to everyone,

630
00:28:52,730 --> 00:28:55,670
especially African-Americans, Latinos,

631
00:28:55,670 --> 00:28:57,120
it's not there yet.

632
00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:58,960
So moving forward,

633
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:00,990
we have to make sure
everybody's comfortable

634
00:29:00,990 --> 00:29:02,563
with this type of technology.

635
00:29:03,700 --> 00:29:04,533
Thank you.

636
00:29:05,456 --> 00:29:08,962
So now I'm gonna turn it
over to some of the folks

637
00:29:08,962 --> 00:29:12,678
who have called for to speak.

638
00:29:12,678 --> 00:29:15,522
Hope we're gonna try and get through

639
00:29:15,522 --> 00:29:17,020
as many of them as possible.

640
00:29:17,020 --> 00:29:19,155
Commissioner, these are the
folks who helped to push

641
00:29:19,155 --> 00:29:20,160
and move this ordinance.

642
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:21,855
We really hope you can
stay as long as you can

643
00:29:21,855 --> 00:29:22,900
to hear them, also.

644
00:29:22,900 --> 00:29:25,276
I'm looking forward to
working with the folks

645
00:29:25,276 --> 00:29:26,836
in the community.

646
00:29:26,836 --> 00:29:28,130
Wonderful, thank you.

647
00:29:28,130 --> 00:29:29,323
So Joy.

648
00:29:31,090 --> 00:29:31,943
Do I?

649
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:36,370
Hello?

650
00:29:36,370 --> 00:29:38,200
Oh, wonderful, Joy.

651
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:39,520
The floor is yours.

652
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:43,740
If you could take about
three minutes or no more.

653
00:29:43,740 --> 00:29:44,950
Sounds good.

654
00:29:44,950 --> 00:29:47,070
So thank you so much madam chair Edwards,

655
00:29:47,070 --> 00:29:50,260
members of the committee
on government operations

656
00:29:50,260 --> 00:29:53,390
and members of the Boston City Council

657
00:29:53,390 --> 00:29:55,870
for the opportunity to testify today,

658
00:29:55,870 --> 00:29:58,360
I am the founder of the
Algorithmic Justice League

659
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:00,880
and an algorithmic bias researcher.

660
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:02,840
I've conducted MIT study

661
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:05,420
showing some of the
largest recorded gender

662
00:30:05,420 --> 00:30:09,350
and racial biases in AI
systems sold by companies,

663
00:30:09,350 --> 00:30:12,610
including IBM, Microsoft and Amazon.

664
00:30:12,610 --> 00:30:15,130
As you've heard the deployment
of facial recognition

665
00:30:15,130 --> 00:30:17,117
and related technologies

666
00:30:17,117 --> 00:30:19,040
has major civil rights implications.

667
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,400
These tools also have
technical limitations

668
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,370
that further amplify
harms for black people,

669
00:30:24,370 --> 00:30:27,480
indigenous people, other
communities of color,

670
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:31,290
women, the elderly, those
with dementia and Parkinson's,

671
00:30:31,290 --> 00:30:35,610
youth trans and gender
non-conforming individuals.

672
00:30:35,610 --> 00:30:37,050
In one test I ran,

673
00:30:37,050 --> 00:30:41,310
Amazon's AI even failed on
the face of Oprah Winfrey,

674
00:30:41,310 --> 00:30:43,120
labeling her male.

675
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,360
Personally, I've had to resort
to wearing a white mask,

676
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:50,550
to have my dark skin detected
by some of this technology,

677
00:30:50,550 --> 00:30:52,730
but given mass surveillance applications,

678
00:30:52,730 --> 00:30:55,940
not having my face
detected can be a benefit.

679
00:30:55,940 --> 00:30:57,980
We do not need to look to China

680
00:30:58,921 --> 00:31:00,270
to see this technology
being used for surveillance

681
00:31:00,270 --> 00:31:03,130
of protesters with little
to no accountability,

682
00:31:03,130 --> 00:31:06,850
and too often in violation of
our civil and human rights,

683
00:31:06,850 --> 00:31:09,860
including first amendment
rights of freedom of expression,

684
00:31:09,860 --> 00:31:12,333
association, and assembly.

685
00:31:13,270 --> 00:31:14,330
When the tech works,

686
00:31:14,330 --> 00:31:16,770
we can't forget about
the cost of surveillance,

687
00:31:16,770 --> 00:31:18,900
but in other contexts it can fail

688
00:31:18,900 --> 00:31:20,660
and the failures can be harmful.

689
00:31:20,660 --> 00:31:23,700
Misidentifications can
lead to false arrest

690
00:31:23,700 --> 00:31:25,130
and accusations.

691
00:31:25,130 --> 00:31:28,160
In April 2019, a brown university senior

692
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,570
was misidentified as a terrorist suspect

693
00:31:31,570 --> 00:31:34,459
in the Sri Lanka Easter bombings.

694
00:31:34,459 --> 00:31:36,360
he police eventually
corrected the mistake,

695
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:38,470
but she still received death threats.

696
00:31:38,470 --> 00:31:41,670
Mistaken identity is more
than an inconvenience.

697
00:31:41,670 --> 00:31:44,000
And she's not alone, in the UK,

698
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,150
the faces of over 2,400 innocent people

699
00:31:47,150 --> 00:31:50,740
were stored by the police
department without their consent.

700
00:31:50,740 --> 00:31:52,050
The department reported

701
00:31:52,050 --> 00:31:55,983
a false positive identification
rate of over 90%.

702
00:31:56,941 --> 00:32:00,300
In the U.S. there are no
reporting requirements

703
00:32:00,300 --> 00:32:03,610
generally speaking, so
we're operating in the dark.

704
00:32:03,610 --> 00:32:05,500
Further, these tools
do not have to identify

705
00:32:05,500 --> 00:32:07,500
unique basis to be harmful.

706
00:32:07,500 --> 00:32:08,900
And investigation reported

707
00:32:08,900 --> 00:32:11,200
that IBM equipped the NYP

708
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:13,370
with tools to search for people in video,

709
00:32:13,370 --> 00:32:15,700
by facial hair and skin tone.

710
00:32:15,700 --> 00:32:17,210
In short, these tools can be used

711
00:32:17,210 --> 00:32:19,440
to automate racial profiling.

712
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:21,120
The company recently came out

713
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:22,770
to denounce the use of these tools

714
00:32:22,770 --> 00:32:25,240
for mass surveillance and profiling.

715
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:29,583
IBM's moved to stop selling
facial recognition technology

716
00:32:29,583 --> 00:32:32,310
underscores it's dangerous.

717
00:32:32,310 --> 00:32:34,340
Due to the consequences of failure,

718
00:32:34,340 --> 00:32:36,430
I've focused my MIT research

719
00:32:36,430 --> 00:32:39,210
on the performance of
facial analysis systems.

720
00:32:39,210 --> 00:32:42,063
I found that for the task
of gender classification,

721
00:32:42,063 --> 00:32:44,610
IBM, Microsoft and Amazon

722
00:32:44,610 --> 00:32:48,790
had air rates of no more
than 1% for lighter skin men.

723
00:32:48,790 --> 00:32:49,833
In the worst case,

724
00:32:51,101 --> 00:32:54,080
these rates were to over
30% for darker skin women.

725
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:57,230
Subsequent government
studies compliment this work.

726
00:32:57,230 --> 00:33:01,010
They show that continued air
disparities in facial analysis

727
00:33:01,010 --> 00:33:03,680
and other tasks, including
face recognition.

728
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:07,860
The latest government
study of 189 algorithms,

729
00:33:07,860 --> 00:33:10,560
revealed consequential racial gender

730
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,960
and age bias in many of
the algorithms tested.

731
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,050
Still, even if air rates improve,

732
00:33:16,050 --> 00:33:18,899
the capacity for abuse, lack of oversight

733
00:33:18,899 --> 00:33:22,770
and deployment limitations
post too great a risk.

734
00:33:22,770 --> 00:33:25,080
Given known harms, the city of Boston

735
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:28,150
should ban government
use of face surveillance.

736
00:33:28,150 --> 00:33:30,040
I look forward to
answering your questions.

737
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:32,563
Thank you for the opportunity to testify.

738
00:33:33,603 --> 00:33:34,623
Thank you so much

739
00:33:34,623 --> 00:33:38,497
and to correct my horrible
mispronunciation of your name.

740
00:33:39,500 --> 00:33:42,770
Would you mind saying your
full name for the record again?

741
00:33:42,770 --> 00:33:45,600
Sure, my name is Joy Buolamwini.

742
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:47,141
Thank you very much Joy.

743
00:33:47,141 --> 00:33:49,962
I'm gonna now turn over
to My'Kel McMillen,

744
00:33:49,962 --> 00:33:51,700
a youth advocate.

745
00:33:51,700 --> 00:33:55,163
I'm also gonna set the
clock three minutes, My'Kel.

746
00:33:59,801 --> 00:34:01,220
God afternoon madam chair,

747
00:34:01,220 --> 00:34:03,190
good afternoon city councilor,

748
00:34:03,190 --> 00:34:04,690
good afternoon everybody else.

749
00:34:06,014 --> 00:34:09,090
My name is My'Kel McMillen,
I'm a youth advocate

750
00:34:10,279 --> 00:34:13,179
I'm also an organizer [indistinct]
which is from the east.

751
00:34:15,688 --> 00:34:17,000
I just want to talk about on a little bit

752
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:20,273
about what's going on within
the streets of Boston.

753
00:34:22,767 --> 00:34:23,690
For centuries black folks

754
00:34:23,690 --> 00:34:25,780
have been the Guinea pig in America,

755
00:34:25,780 --> 00:34:27,150
from experiments with our bodies

756
00:34:27,150 --> 00:34:29,193
to the strain on our communities,

757
00:34:29,193 --> 00:34:31,991
it seems [indistinct]

758
00:34:31,991 --> 00:34:35,200
Do I agree police are as involved?

759
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:37,370
Yes, there are no longer
catching us glaze,

760
00:34:37,370 --> 00:34:39,726
but catching poor black and brown folks.

761
00:34:39,726 --> 00:34:43,960
On January, so I wanna
talk about three years ago,

762
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:46,980
roughly January around 2017,

763
00:34:46,980 --> 00:34:50,985
there were residents from my
neighborhood that came up to me

764
00:34:50,985 --> 00:34:54,486
that they asking a drone
flying into the area

765
00:34:54,486 --> 00:34:56,840
and they asked numerous times

766
00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,199
and nobody could figure out
who was flying the drone,

767
00:34:59,199 --> 00:35:01,477
who's controlling it.

768
00:35:01,477 --> 00:35:04,470
And so upon receiving his information,

769
00:35:04,470 --> 00:35:07,400
I live across the street
from a soda company,

770
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:09,060
and later on that night,

771
00:35:09,060 --> 00:35:10,940
I seen officers playing with a drone

772
00:35:10,940 --> 00:35:13,122
and I ended up taking the
photos of their drone.

773
00:35:13,122 --> 00:35:14,320
And it kind of jogged my memory back

774
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:16,170
that this was a drone

775
00:35:16,170 --> 00:35:18,460
that lots of residents in my neighborhood

776
00:35:18,460 --> 00:35:20,000
had seen and talked about.

777
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:21,920
That no one knew who was flying the drone.

778
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:24,200
It comes to my knowledge,
it was the police.

779
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:26,590
So with doing some research

780
00:35:26,590 --> 00:35:28,910
and reaching out to a friend over at ACLU

781
00:35:29,940 --> 00:35:32,800
and we try to follow up
a public records request,

782
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:34,680
which we were denied our first time,

783
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:35,940
and then eventually got it,

784
00:35:35,940 --> 00:35:40,167
where the Boston police has
spent the amount of $17,500

785
00:35:41,060 --> 00:35:42,830
on three police drones.

786
00:35:42,830 --> 00:35:45,900
And nobody knew about it from
city council to the public.

787
00:35:45,900 --> 00:35:48,048
It was kind of kept secret

788
00:35:48,048 --> 00:35:50,930
and there was no committee oversight.

789
00:35:50,930 --> 00:35:53,700
And these drones were flying illegally

790
00:35:53,700 --> 00:35:57,928
in the side of a neighborhood
and the breach of privacy,

791
00:35:57,928 --> 00:36:02,928
The not knowing what
information was being collected,

792
00:36:05,388 --> 00:36:07,840
what was being stored,
how it was being stored

793
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:10,220
that really scared a lot
of folks in my neighborhood

794
00:36:10,220 --> 00:36:12,490
and to the point that a lot
of them didn't wanna speak up

795
00:36:12,490 --> 00:36:15,480
because of past experience
of dealing with abuse

796
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:17,020
and being harassed.

797
00:36:17,020 --> 00:36:18,910
Nobody wanted that backlash,

798
00:36:18,910 --> 00:36:20,760
but at the same time,

799
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:22,160
we have to be as residents

800
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:25,760
and have to empower one
another and have to speak up.

801
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:29,930
And sometimes it has to
be somebody regardless

802
00:36:29,930 --> 00:36:33,340
if it's myself or another individual,

803
00:36:33,340 --> 00:36:35,080
we have to hold people accountable.

804
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:37,970
And something that Monica
Candace, who's another activist,

805
00:36:37,970 --> 00:36:39,970
accountability has no colors to another,

806
00:36:39,970 --> 00:36:43,180
regardless if you're white,
black in a blue uniform,

807
00:36:43,180 --> 00:36:44,740
you still have to be held accountable.

808
00:36:44,740 --> 00:36:46,860
And then just to see that
no one was held accountable

809
00:36:46,860 --> 00:36:48,484
was a scary thing,

810
00:36:48,484 --> 00:36:50,660
because it kind of just [indistinct]

811
00:36:53,890 --> 00:36:55,330
Nobody ever gets caught accountable

812
00:36:55,330 --> 00:36:58,840
because our voices are muffled by money

813
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:03,780
or just a knee in the neck,
rest in peace to George Floyd.

814
00:37:03,780 --> 00:37:05,622
That is it for my time, thank you all.

815
00:37:05,622 --> 00:37:08,513
Thank you, thank you so much.

816
00:37:08,513 --> 00:37:09,830
Perfect testimony.

817
00:37:09,830 --> 00:37:11,760
And I really appreciate you
speaking from the heart,

818
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:13,450
from your own experience

819
00:37:13,450 --> 00:37:16,030
and also demonstrating how you've actually

820
00:37:16,030 --> 00:37:18,420
had conversation for accountability

821
00:37:18,420 --> 00:37:19,740
through your leadership.

822
00:37:19,740 --> 00:37:21,810
So I wanna thank you for that.

823
00:37:21,810 --> 00:37:25,160
Up next we have Karina Hem

824
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:27,271
from the Student Immigrant Movement.

825
00:37:27,271 --> 00:37:30,230
Three minutes, Karina.

826
00:37:30,230 --> 00:37:31,660
Hi everyone.

827
00:37:31,660 --> 00:37:34,970
Thank you everyone for joining
us today at this hearing,

828
00:37:34,970 --> 00:37:36,220
my name is Karina Hem,

829
00:37:36,220 --> 00:37:38,062
and I'm the field organizer

830
00:37:38,062 --> 00:37:39,230
for the Student Immigrant Movement.

831
00:37:39,230 --> 00:37:41,379
I would like to also thank our partners

832
00:37:41,379 --> 00:37:43,730
who've been working on the
facial recognition ban,

833
00:37:43,730 --> 00:37:46,580
city councilors, Michelle
Wu, Ricardo Arroyo,

834
00:37:46,580 --> 00:37:49,230
Andrea Campbell, Kim Janey.
Annesa Essaibi George,

835
00:37:49,230 --> 00:37:51,170
along with ACLU of Massachusetts,

836
00:37:51,170 --> 00:37:53,740
Muslim Justice League
and Unafraid Educators.

837
00:37:53,740 --> 00:37:55,780
So SIM is a statewide
grassroots organization

838
00:37:55,780 --> 00:37:58,300
by and for the undocumented youth.

839
00:37:58,300 --> 00:38:01,330
We work closely with our
members or our young people

840
00:38:01,330 --> 00:38:03,910
to create trusting and
empowering relationships.

841
00:38:03,910 --> 00:38:06,470
At SIM we fight for the
permanent protection

842
00:38:06,470 --> 00:38:08,420
of our undocumented
youth and their families

843
00:38:08,420 --> 00:38:09,830
through collective action.

844
00:38:09,830 --> 00:38:11,570
And one of the major role of the work

845
00:38:11,570 --> 00:38:13,230
in the organizing that we do,

846
00:38:13,230 --> 00:38:15,870
is to challenge these systems
that continue to exploit

847
00:38:15,870 --> 00:38:17,810
and disenfranchise the undocumented

848
00:38:18,989 --> 00:38:19,822
and immigrant communities.

849
00:38:19,822 --> 00:38:21,897
So I am here on behalf of SIM

850
00:38:21,897 --> 00:38:23,200
to support the ban on facial recognition

851
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:24,680
because it's another system,

852
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:26,500
it's another tool that will intentionally

853
00:38:26,500 --> 00:38:28,890
be used against marginalized community.

854
00:38:28,890 --> 00:38:30,900
So the undocumented immigrant community

855
00:38:30,900 --> 00:38:33,440
is not mutually exclusive
to one particular group.

856
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:35,539
We have transgender people,

857
00:38:35,539 --> 00:38:37,550
black, Latina, exmuslim,
people with disabilities,

858
00:38:37,550 --> 00:38:39,200
and it's so intersectional.

859
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:42,353
And so the stakes for getting
this identified are high

860
00:38:42,353 --> 00:38:44,275
because this creates a dangerous situation

861
00:38:44,275 --> 00:38:45,260
for people who are undocumented.

862
00:38:45,260 --> 00:38:47,440
And these programs are
made to accurately identify

863
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:49,500
white adult males, living
black and brown folks

864
00:38:49,500 --> 00:38:53,137
at risk on top of living
in marginalized community.

865
00:38:53,137 --> 00:38:55,077
And so many of the
young people I work with

866
00:38:55,077 --> 00:38:56,700
are students who are in college

867
00:38:56,700 --> 00:38:58,400
and many are still in high school.

868
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:00,640
Face surveillance technology
is not meant for children,

869
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:02,520
and it's not meant for the young people

870
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:04,040
and law enforcement already uses it

871
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:07,460
to monitor the youth in places
like Lockport, New York.

872
00:39:07,460 --> 00:39:08,610
Their face surveillance system

873
00:39:08,610 --> 00:39:10,780
has been adopted in their school district,

874
00:39:10,780 --> 00:39:12,650
and they've already spent
over a million dollars

875
00:39:12,650 --> 00:39:13,483
in the system.

876
00:39:13,483 --> 00:39:14,420
So you ask yourself,

877
00:39:14,420 --> 00:39:16,800
but what is exactly the intent
to have these surveillance?

878
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,400
Do you still have the
right to their privacy

879
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:22,020
and have the right to live
without constant infringement

880
00:39:22,020 --> 00:39:24,060
and interference of law enforcement.

881
00:39:24,060 --> 00:39:25,920
If another city allows facial surveillance

882
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:27,660
in their schools to happen,

883
00:39:27,660 --> 00:39:29,740
the chance of that occurring
here is high as well

884
00:39:29,740 --> 00:39:32,330
if we do not ban facial
recognition in Boston.

885
00:39:32,330 --> 00:39:33,960
And we believe this because the youth,

886
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:34,950
the undocumented youth,

887
00:39:34,950 --> 00:39:37,560
there are already not
protected in their schools,

888
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:38,950
school disciplinary reports,

889
00:39:38,950 --> 00:39:42,280
which currently have no guideline
protocol or clear criteria

890
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:44,190
on what exactly school officers can write

891
00:39:44,190 --> 00:39:46,730
are sent to the superintendent
and their designee

892
00:39:46,730 --> 00:39:49,010
to sign off and sent to the
Boston Police Department.

893
00:39:49,010 --> 00:39:52,397
And still we've seen that
some of these reports

894
00:39:52,397 --> 00:39:53,230
actually go straight to
the police department

895
00:39:53,230 --> 00:39:54,183
with no oversight.

896
00:39:55,059 --> 00:39:56,550
And so this endangers the
life of immigrant youth,

897
00:39:56,550 --> 00:39:59,180
because Boston Police
Departments share information

898
00:39:59,180 --> 00:40:02,061
and databases with agencies like I.C.E.

899
00:40:02,061 --> 00:40:03,679
So it creates a gateway to imprisonment

900
00:40:03,679 --> 00:40:05,760
and deportation from any
of these young folks.

901
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:07,800
And so adding facial
surveillance into schools

902
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,590
and in the city would be used
against those same students

903
00:40:10,590 --> 00:40:11,670
who are already at risk

904
00:40:11,670 --> 00:40:14,170
for being separated from their community.

905
00:40:14,170 --> 00:40:15,340
We know that black and brown youth

906
00:40:15,340 --> 00:40:16,993
experience depression every day,

907
00:40:18,460 --> 00:40:19,810
and they already are deemed
suspicious by law enforcement

908
00:40:20,788 --> 00:40:21,880
based on their skin color
and the clothes they wear,

909
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:23,870
the people they interact with in more.

910
00:40:23,870 --> 00:40:25,500
And so adding facial recognition,

911
00:40:25,500 --> 00:40:28,070
that's not even accurate to
surveil our youth and families

912
00:40:28,070 --> 00:40:32,539
will just be used to justify
their arrests or deportation.

913
00:40:32,539 --> 00:40:35,346
And through the policing system,

914
00:40:35,346 --> 00:40:36,460
we were already asking for police officers

915
00:40:36,460 --> 00:40:37,870
to engage with the youth in ways

916
00:40:37,870 --> 00:40:40,530
that are just harmful to
the youth development.

917
00:40:40,530 --> 00:40:45,180
The city of Boston needs to
stop criminalizing young folks,

918
00:40:45,180 --> 00:40:47,560
whether they engage in
criminal activity or not,

919
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:49,980
arresting them will not get
to the root of the problem.

920
00:40:49,980 --> 00:40:51,130
There are so many options

921
00:40:51,130 --> 00:40:53,739
that are much safer and
more secure for our youth,

922
00:40:53,739 --> 00:40:56,070
for the families and their futures.

923
00:40:56,070 --> 00:40:58,020
Banning facial recognition
would meet law enforcement

924
00:40:58,020 --> 00:41:00,660
has one less tool to
criminalize our youth.

925
00:41:00,660 --> 00:41:01,860
Thanks so much everyone.

926
00:41:02,979 --> 00:41:04,686
Thank you.

927
00:41:04,686 --> 00:41:09,060
Commissioner, I understand
time it'd be of the essence,

928
00:41:09,060 --> 00:41:13,883
but I'm really hoping you can
stay till about 4:15, 4:30,

929
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:18,143
please, please.

930
00:41:21,688 --> 00:41:25,220
I can stay until four, that's it.

931
00:41:25,220 --> 00:41:29,593
I have to go at four, that long.

932
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,253
Okay, so-

933
00:41:34,831 --> 00:41:35,900
I appreciate everyone's testimony as well.

934
00:41:35,900 --> 00:41:37,830
I have a team we're taking notes.

935
00:41:37,830 --> 00:41:41,940
So I don't think when I go
that no one's taking notes.

936
00:41:41,940 --> 00:41:43,510
We would really wanna meet again

937
00:41:43,510 --> 00:41:45,863
and discuss on this technology.

938
00:41:46,750 --> 00:41:48,270
I know that there are some councilors

939
00:41:48,270 --> 00:41:50,527
that have some clarifying questions

940
00:41:50,527 --> 00:41:53,100
and we have three more people to speak.

941
00:41:53,100 --> 00:41:56,870
And so I am begging you, please,

942
00:41:56,870 --> 00:41:59,550
if you can at least get
to the lead sponsors,

943
00:41:59,550 --> 00:42:01,783
councilor Wu and councilor Arroyo.

944
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:07,670
That'll be three, six, nine, 10.

945
00:42:07,670 --> 00:42:09,400
That'd be probably 20 more minutes.

946
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:11,239
A little after four.

947
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:14,438
Okay.
A little close for me.

948
00:42:14,438 --> 00:42:15,483
[Gross laughs]

949
00:42:15,483 --> 00:42:17,102
We're trying, we're trying.

950
00:42:17,102 --> 00:42:18,699
I understand, I understand, go ahead.

951
00:42:18,699 --> 00:42:22,141
Thank you, Kade.

952
00:42:22,141 --> 00:42:24,170
Thank you chair.

953
00:42:24,170 --> 00:42:25,310
My name is Kade Crawford.

954
00:42:25,310 --> 00:42:27,790
I am the director of the
Technology for Liberty Program

955
00:42:27,790 --> 00:42:29,461
at the ACLU of Massachusetts.

956
00:42:29,461 --> 00:42:31,930
Chair Edwards, members of the committee

957
00:42:31,930 --> 00:42:33,220
and members of the city council,

958
00:42:33,220 --> 00:42:34,750
thank you all for the opportunity

959
00:42:34,750 --> 00:42:36,973
to speak on this crucial issue today.

960
00:42:36,973 --> 00:42:40,750
We are obviously in the midst
of a massive social upheaval

961
00:42:40,750 --> 00:42:43,130
as people across Boston and the nation

962
00:42:43,130 --> 00:42:46,010
demand that we ensure black lives matter

963
00:42:46,010 --> 00:42:48,650
by shifting our budget
priorities away from policing

964
00:42:48,650 --> 00:42:51,430
and incarceration and
towards government programs

965
00:42:51,430 --> 00:42:54,063
that lift people up instead
of holding them back.

966
00:42:54,063 --> 00:42:56,850
And people are outraged
because for too long

967
00:42:56,850 --> 00:42:59,250
police departments have
been armed to the teeth

968
00:42:59,250 --> 00:43:02,544
and equipped with military
style surveillance technologies,

969
00:43:02,544 --> 00:43:04,970
Like the ones that My'Kel just referenced.

970
00:43:04,970 --> 00:43:08,340
Even as our schools lack
the most basic needs,

971
00:43:08,340 --> 00:43:11,460
like functioning water
fountains, nurses and counselors.

972
00:43:11,460 --> 00:43:13,620
And even now during this pandemic,

973
00:43:13,620 --> 00:43:16,690
as our healthcare providers
lack the PPE they need

974
00:43:16,690 --> 00:43:18,880
to protect themselves and us,

975
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:21,340
but our government cannot continue to act

976
00:43:23,056 --> 00:43:24,812
as if it is at war with its residents,

977
00:43:24,812 --> 00:43:25,960
waging counter-insurgency surveillance

978
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:27,981
and control operations,

979
00:43:27,981 --> 00:43:29,720
particularly in black
and brown neighborhoods

980
00:43:29,720 --> 00:43:31,470
and against black and brown people.

981
00:43:32,562 --> 00:43:35,710
We must act, we must not merely
speak to change our laws,

982
00:43:35,710 --> 00:43:37,990
to ensure we are building a free,

983
00:43:37,990 --> 00:43:41,620
just an equitable future
for all people in Boston.

984
00:43:41,620 --> 00:43:42,660
So that said,

985
00:43:42,660 --> 00:43:45,520
banning face surveillance
in Boston is a no-brainer.

986
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:47,640
It is one small but vital piece

987
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:50,780
of this larger necessary transformation.

988
00:43:50,780 --> 00:43:52,840
Face surveillance is
dangerous when it works

989
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:54,260
and when it doesn't.

990
00:43:54,260 --> 00:43:56,180
Banning this technology in Boston now

991
00:43:56,180 --> 00:43:58,260
is not an academic issue.

992
00:43:58,260 --> 00:44:00,970
Indeed the city already uses technology

993
00:44:00,970 --> 00:44:02,900
that with one mere software upgrade

994
00:44:02,900 --> 00:44:06,630
could blanket Boston in the
kind of dystopian surveillance

995
00:44:06,630 --> 00:44:09,050
currently practiced by
authoritarian regimes

996
00:44:09,050 --> 00:44:10,630
in China and Russia.

997
00:44:10,630 --> 00:44:11,880
And as Joyce said,

998
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:14,850
even some cities right
here in the United States.

999
00:44:14,850 --> 00:44:17,160
Boston has to strike a different path

1000
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:19,760
by protecting privacy, racial justice,

1001
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:21,370
and first amendment rights.

1002
00:44:21,370 --> 00:44:23,800
We must ban this technology now,

1003
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:26,900
before it creeps into our
government, in the shadows,

1004
00:44:26,900 --> 00:44:29,410
with no democratic control or oversight

1005
00:44:29,410 --> 00:44:31,680
as it has in countless other cities,

1006
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:34,120
across the country and across the world.

1007
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:37,340
So today you already
heard from pretty much

1008
00:44:37,340 --> 00:44:38,760
the world renowned expert

1009
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,260
on racial and gender bias
and facial recognition.

1010
00:44:41,260 --> 00:44:44,080
Thank you so much Joy
for being with us today,

1011
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:46,290
your work blazed a trail
and showed the world

1012
00:44:46,290 --> 00:44:49,150
that yes, algorithms
can in fact be racist.

1013
00:44:49,150 --> 00:44:50,890
You also heard from my My'Kel McMillen,

1014
00:44:50,890 --> 00:44:53,930
a young Boston and resident
who has experienced firsthand,

1015
00:44:53,930 --> 00:44:55,260
what draconian surveillance

1016
00:44:55,260 --> 00:44:57,529
with no accountability looks like.

1017
00:44:57,529 --> 00:44:59,880
Karina Ham from the
Student Immigrant Movement

1018
00:44:59,880 --> 00:45:02,030
spoke to the need to
keep face surveillance

1019
00:45:03,850 --> 00:45:05,267
out of our public schools,

1020
00:45:05,267 --> 00:45:06,890
where students deserve to be
able to learn without fear.

1021
00:45:06,890 --> 00:45:09,700
You're gonna hear a
similar set of sentiments

1022
00:45:09,700 --> 00:45:12,100
from Erik Berg of the
Boston Teachers Union

1023
00:45:12,100 --> 00:45:15,050
and shortly medical doctor
and infectious disease expert,

1024
00:45:15,050 --> 00:45:16,710
Joshua Barocas will testify

1025
00:45:16,710 --> 00:45:18,930
to how this technology in Boston,

1026
00:45:18,930 --> 00:45:21,370
would inevitably undermine trust

1027
00:45:21,370 --> 00:45:22,930
among the most vulnerable people

1028
00:45:22,930 --> 00:45:24,780
seeking medical care and help.

1029
00:45:24,780 --> 00:45:27,320
Obviously that's the last
thing that we need to do,

1030
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:29,460
especially during a pandemic.

1031
00:45:29,460 --> 00:45:32,510
For too long in Boston,
city agencies have acquired

1032
00:45:32,510 --> 00:45:34,913
and deployed invasive
surveillance technologies

1033
00:45:34,913 --> 00:45:37,530
with no public debate, transparency,

1034
00:45:37,530 --> 00:45:39,460
accountability or oversight.

1035
00:45:39,460 --> 00:45:41,250
In most cases, these technologies,

1036
00:45:41,250 --> 00:45:43,180
which as My'Kel said, include drones,

1037
00:45:43,180 --> 00:45:45,360
but also license plate readers,

1038
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:48,470
social media surveillance,
video analytics software

1039
00:45:48,470 --> 00:45:51,100
and military style cell
phone spying devices,

1040
00:45:51,100 --> 00:45:52,530
among many others.

1041
00:45:52,530 --> 00:45:54,350
These were purchased and deployed

1042
00:45:54,350 --> 00:45:58,090
without the city council's
knowledge, let alone approval.

1043
00:45:58,090 --> 00:45:59,890
We have seen this routine play out

1044
00:45:59,890 --> 00:46:03,230
over and over and over for years.

1045
00:46:03,230 --> 00:46:06,230
This is a problem with all
surveillance technologies,

1046
00:46:06,230 --> 00:46:08,540
but it is especially unacceptable

1047
00:46:08,540 --> 00:46:10,140
with a technology as dangerous

1048
00:46:10,140 --> 00:46:12,250
and dystopian as face surveillance.

1049
00:46:12,250 --> 00:46:14,540
It is not an exaggeration to say that

1050
00:46:14,540 --> 00:46:15,590
face surveillance would,

1051
00:46:15,590 --> 00:46:18,100
if we allow it destroy privacy

1052
00:46:18,100 --> 00:46:20,490
and anonymity in public space.

1053
00:46:20,490 --> 00:46:22,270
Face surveillance technology

1054
00:46:22,270 --> 00:46:25,430
paired with a thousands of
network surveillance cameras

1055
00:46:25,430 --> 00:46:27,610
already installed throughout the city,

1056
00:46:27,610 --> 00:46:30,850
would enable any official
with access to the system

1057
00:46:30,850 --> 00:46:33,640
to automatically catalog the movements,

1058
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:38,281
habits and associations of
all people at all times,

1059
00:46:38,281 --> 00:46:40,143
merely with the push of a button.

1060
00:46:40,980 --> 00:46:43,730
This is technology that
would make it trivial

1061
00:46:43,730 --> 00:46:46,500
for the government to
blackmail public officials

1062
00:46:46,500 --> 00:46:48,410
for seeking substance use treatment,

1063
00:46:48,410 --> 00:46:50,050
or to identify whistleblowers

1064
00:46:50,050 --> 00:46:51,870
who are speaking to the Boston Globe

1065
00:46:51,870 --> 00:46:54,520
or in its most routine manifestation

1066
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:57,360
to supercharge existing police harassment

1067
00:46:57,360 --> 00:46:59,940
and surveillance of
black and brown residents

1068
00:46:59,940 --> 00:47:02,200
merely because of the color of their skin

1069
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:03,860
and where they live.

1070
00:47:03,860 --> 00:47:05,770
Using face recognition tech,

1071
00:47:05,770 --> 00:47:09,490
the police could very easily
take photos or videos of people

1072
00:47:09,490 --> 00:47:12,630
at any of these Black Lives
Matter demonstrations,

1073
00:47:12,630 --> 00:47:15,100
run those images through
a computer program

1074
00:47:15,100 --> 00:47:17,360
and automatically populate a list

1075
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:19,100
of each person who attended

1076
00:47:19,100 --> 00:47:21,010
to express their first amendment rights

1077
00:47:21,010 --> 00:47:22,870
to demand racial justice.

1078
00:47:22,870 --> 00:47:25,520
The police could also
ask a computer program

1079
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:27,880
to automatically populate
a list of every person

1080
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:31,010
who walked down a specific
on any given morning

1081
00:47:31,010 --> 00:47:33,010
and share that information with I.C.E.

1082
00:47:33,010 --> 00:47:34,030
It could also be used

1083
00:47:34,030 --> 00:47:36,190
to automatically alert law enforcement,

1084
00:47:36,190 --> 00:47:38,020
whenever a specific person passes

1085
00:47:38,020 --> 00:47:40,950
by a specific surveillance
camera anywhere in the city.

1086
00:47:40,950 --> 00:47:43,150
And again, there are
thousands of these cameras

1087
00:47:43,150 --> 00:47:45,360
with more going up each week.

1088
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:47,908
Yes, so we're, I'm so sorry.

1089
00:47:47,908 --> 00:47:50,750
You're over the three minutes.

1090
00:47:50,750 --> 00:47:51,830
Well, over the three minutes,

1091
00:47:51,830 --> 00:47:53,970
but I'm I...

1092
00:47:53,970 --> 00:47:57,090
and I have two more people
plus trying to get this.

1093
00:47:57,090 --> 00:48:00,831
So I'm just letting you
know if you could summarize.

1094
00:48:00,831 --> 00:48:02,610
All right, I'm almost done, thank you.

1095
00:48:02,610 --> 00:48:03,960
Sorry, chair.

1096
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:06,350
So I'll just skip to the end and say,

1097
00:48:06,350 --> 00:48:08,687
we're at a fork in the road right now,

1098
00:48:08,687 --> 00:48:12,520
as Joy said, you know, major corporations,

1099
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:14,670
including IBM and Google are now declining

1100
00:48:14,670 --> 00:48:17,230
to sell this technology
and that's for good reason,

1101
00:48:17,230 --> 00:48:19,880
because of the real
potential for grave human

1102
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:21,660
and civil rights abuses.

1103
00:48:21,660 --> 00:48:23,890
We the people, if we live in a democracy

1104
00:48:23,890 --> 00:48:25,370
and need to be in the driver's seat

1105
00:48:25,370 --> 00:48:26,350
in terms of determining

1106
00:48:26,350 --> 00:48:28,540
whether we will use these technologies.

1107
00:48:28,540 --> 00:48:31,150
We can either continue
with business as usual,

1108
00:48:31,150 --> 00:48:32,720
allowing governments to adopt

1109
00:48:32,720 --> 00:48:35,630
and deploy these technologies
unchecked in our communities,

1110
00:48:35,630 --> 00:48:37,460
our streets, in our schools,

1111
00:48:37,460 --> 00:48:41,340
or we can take bold
action now to press pause

1112
00:48:41,340 --> 00:48:43,410
on the government's
use of this technology,

1113
00:48:43,410 --> 00:48:44,960
to protect our privacy

1114
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:48,493
and to build a safer fewer
freer future for all of us.

1115
00:48:50,270 --> 00:48:51,230
So please, I encourage the city council

1116
00:48:51,230 --> 00:48:54,010
to join us by supporting
this crucial ordinance

1117
00:48:54,010 --> 00:48:55,620
with your advocacy and with your vote

1118
00:48:55,620 --> 00:48:58,160
and I thank you all for
your public service.

1119
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:01,423
Thank you very much,
Erik Berg, three minutes.

1120
00:49:02,580 --> 00:49:04,375
Yeah, thank you.

1121
00:49:04,375 --> 00:49:06,430
And I'll get right to the
point in the interest of time.

1122
00:49:06,430 --> 00:49:07,620
Thank you to the council

1123
00:49:07,620 --> 00:49:09,826
for taking this up and for
allowing this time today.

1124
00:49:09,826 --> 00:49:11,340
And I'm here to speak today

1125
00:49:11,340 --> 00:49:13,110
on behalf of the Boston Teachers Union

1126
00:49:13,110 --> 00:49:16,290
and our over 10,000 members
in support of the ordinance,

1127
00:49:16,290 --> 00:49:19,210
banning facial recognition
technology in Boston

1128
00:49:19,210 --> 00:49:22,310
that was presented by
councilors Wu and Arroyo.

1129
00:49:22,310 --> 00:49:24,560
We strongly oppose the
use of this technology

1130
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:26,050
in our public schools.

1131
00:49:26,050 --> 00:49:28,310
Boston public schools
should be safe environments

1132
00:49:28,310 --> 00:49:29,460
for students to learn,

1133
00:49:29,460 --> 00:49:31,786
explore their identities
and intellect and play.

1134
00:49:31,786 --> 00:49:35,580
Face surveillance technology
threatens that environment.

1135
00:49:35,580 --> 00:49:38,530
The technology also threatens
the rights of our BTU members,

1136
00:49:38,530 --> 00:49:39,700
who must be able to go to work

1137
00:49:39,700 --> 00:49:41,490
without fearing that their every movement,

1138
00:49:41,490 --> 00:49:44,707
habit and association will
be tracked and cataloged.

1139
00:49:44,707 --> 00:49:46,220
To our knowledge,

1140
00:49:46,220 --> 00:49:48,490
this technology is not
in use in our schools,

1141
00:49:48,490 --> 00:49:50,810
but we've already witnessed
some experimenting with it.

1142
00:49:50,810 --> 00:49:53,500
Although it was unclear
if it was authorized.

1143
00:49:53,500 --> 00:49:55,820
Two summers ago, members of
the Boston Teachers Union,

1144
00:49:55,820 --> 00:49:58,147
who were working in the summer program,

1145
00:49:58,147 --> 00:49:59,010
contacted the union to let us know

1146
00:49:59,010 --> 00:50:00,730
that they were being asked to sign in

1147
00:50:00,730 --> 00:50:05,060
using an app called Tinder
with face recognition features.

1148
00:50:05,060 --> 00:50:05,900
And the central office

1149
00:50:05,900 --> 00:50:07,420
didn't seem to know about this program,

1150
00:50:07,420 --> 00:50:08,253
and to this day,

1151
00:50:08,253 --> 00:50:09,940
we don't know how it came about.

1152
00:50:09,940 --> 00:50:11,370
While the district quickly stopped

1153
00:50:11,370 --> 00:50:13,010
using the photo portion of this app

1154
00:50:13,010 --> 00:50:15,820
and informed the union that
all photos have been deleted,

1155
00:50:15,820 --> 00:50:17,450
this incident is indicative

1156
00:50:17,450 --> 00:50:20,760
of how easy it is for private
security or HR companies

1157
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:23,750
to sell a technology to a
well-intentioned principal

1158
00:50:23,750 --> 00:50:26,350
or superintendent who
may not have expertise

1159
00:50:26,350 --> 00:50:27,313
in the tech field.

1160
00:50:28,610 --> 00:50:31,330
Face surveillance in schools
transforms all students

1161
00:50:31,330 --> 00:50:33,350
and their family members,
as well as employees

1162
00:50:33,350 --> 00:50:35,430
into perpetual suspects,

1163
00:50:35,430 --> 00:50:37,280
where each and every
one of their movements

1164
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:39,490
can be automatically monitored.

1165
00:50:39,490 --> 00:50:41,510
The use of this technology
in public schools

1166
00:50:41,510 --> 00:50:43,490
will negatively impact students' ability

1167
00:50:43,490 --> 00:50:46,480
to explore new ideas,
express their creativity,

1168
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:48,450
and engage in student dissent

1169
00:50:48,450 --> 00:50:50,210
and especially disturbing prospect

1170
00:50:50,210 --> 00:50:51,930
given the current youth led protests

1171
00:50:51,930 --> 00:50:53,950
against police violence.

1172
00:50:53,950 --> 00:50:55,370
Even worse, as we've heard,

1173
00:50:55,370 --> 00:50:58,170
the technology is frequently
biased and inaccurate,

1174
00:50:58,170 --> 00:50:59,300
which raises concerns

1175
00:50:59,300 --> 00:51:01,746
about its use to police students of color,

1176
00:51:01,746 --> 00:51:04,210
academic peer reviewed studies,

1177
00:51:04,210 --> 00:51:06,140
show face surveillance algorithms

1178
00:51:06,140 --> 00:51:08,350
are too often racially based,

1179
00:51:08,350 --> 00:51:10,040
particularly against black women

1180
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:14,267
with inaccuracy rates up to
35% for that demographic.

1181
00:51:14,267 --> 00:51:16,280
We know black and brown students

1182
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:19,550
are more likely to be punished
for perceived misbehavior.

1183
00:51:19,550 --> 00:51:21,360
Face surveillance will only perpetuate

1184
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:23,153
and reproduce this situation.

1185
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:25,990
When used to monitor children,

1186
00:51:25,990 --> 00:51:28,410
this technology fails
in an essential sense

1187
00:51:28,410 --> 00:51:29,940
because it has difficulty

1188
00:51:29,940 --> 00:51:33,407
accurately identifying young
people as their faces change.

1189
00:51:33,407 --> 00:51:36,640
Research that tested five top performing

1190
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:39,920
commercial off the shelf
face recognition systems

1191
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:42,860
shows there's a negative bias
when they're used on children,

1192
00:51:42,860 --> 00:51:45,601
they perform poor on
children than on adults.

1193
00:51:45,601 --> 00:51:48,000
That's because these systems are modeled

1194
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:49,360
through the use of adult faces

1195
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:50,900
and children look different from adults

1196
00:51:50,900 --> 00:51:52,590
in such a way they can not be considered,

1197
00:51:52,590 --> 00:51:54,823
they're simply scaled down versions.

1198
00:51:56,081 --> 00:51:57,840
On top of this face,

1199
00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:00,476
surveillance technology regularly

1200
00:52:00,476 --> 00:52:01,710
misgenders transgender people,

1201
00:52:01,710 --> 00:52:03,060
and will have a harmful impact

1202
00:52:03,060 --> 00:52:05,770
on transgender young
people in our schools.

1203
00:52:05,770 --> 00:52:08,360
Research shows that
automatic gender recognition

1204
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:12,010
consistently views gender
in a trans exclusive way.

1205
00:52:12,010 --> 00:52:14,400
And consequently carries
disproportionate risk

1206
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:16,063
for trans people subject to it.

1207
00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:18,720
At a time when transgender children

1208
00:52:18,720 --> 00:52:21,160
are being stripped of their
rights at a national level,

1209
00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:24,263
Boston must protect transgender
kids in our schools.

1210
00:52:25,170 --> 00:52:27,892
Moreover, face surveillance in schools

1211
00:52:27,892 --> 00:52:29,620
will contribute to the
school to prison pipeline,

1212
00:52:29,620 --> 00:52:30,990
threatening children's welfare,

1213
00:52:30,990 --> 00:52:34,040
educational opportunities
and life trajectories.

1214
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:36,500
Already, children from
marginalized communities

1215
00:52:36,500 --> 00:52:38,620
are too often funneled
out of public schools

1216
00:52:38,620 --> 00:52:41,951
and into the juvenile and
criminal justice systems -

1217
00:52:41,951 --> 00:52:44,709
will inevitable this pipeline.

1218
00:52:44,709 --> 00:52:47,990
I'll get right to the end.

1219
00:52:47,990 --> 00:52:49,830
Finally, face surveillance technology

1220
00:52:49,830 --> 00:52:51,940
will harm immigrant families.

1221
00:52:51,940 --> 00:52:53,070
In this political climate,

1222
00:52:53,070 --> 00:52:55,090
immigrants are already
fearful of engagement

1223
00:52:55,090 --> 00:52:57,210
with public institutions

1224
00:52:57,210 --> 00:52:58,640
and face surveillance systems

1225
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:01,280
would further chill student
and parent participation

1226
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:03,320
in immigrant communities in our schools,

1227
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:05,930
Boston schools must be
welcoming and safe spaces

1228
00:53:05,930 --> 00:53:07,380
for all families.

1229
00:53:07,380 --> 00:53:09,360
The city of Boston must take action now

1230
00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:11,057
to ensure children and BTU workers

1231
00:53:11,057 --> 00:53:13,000
are not subject to this unfair,

1232
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:15,260
biased and chilling scrutiny.

1233
00:53:15,260 --> 00:53:16,580
In order to protect young people

1234
00:53:16,580 --> 00:53:18,000
in our educational community,

1235
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:21,540
we must stop face surveillance
in schools before it begins.

1236
00:53:21,540 --> 00:53:23,500
Thank you very much for your attention

1237
00:53:23,500 --> 00:53:25,150
and your consideration.

1238
00:53:25,150 --> 00:53:27,090
Thank you very much.

1239
00:53:27,090 --> 00:53:28,814
We're getting there,

1240
00:53:28,814 --> 00:53:30,050
very, very close commissioner I promise.

1241
00:53:30,050 --> 00:53:31,290
Just one more person.

1242
00:53:31,290 --> 00:53:33,440
Then the two people who specifically said

1243
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:36,030
they had some questions,
we'll go right to them.

1244
00:53:36,030 --> 00:53:39,107
Joshua Barocas

1245
00:53:40,500 --> 00:53:43,970
Yeah, I will read quickly.

1246
00:53:43,970 --> 00:53:45,240
First of all, thanks for allowing me

1247
00:53:45,240 --> 00:53:48,440
to testify today regarding
this important issue.

1248
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:50,650
I should say that the views

1249
00:53:50,650 --> 00:53:52,130
that I'm expressing today are my own

1250
00:53:52,130 --> 00:53:54,960
and don't necessarily
represent those of my employer,

1251
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:57,790
but that said I'm an
infectious disease physician

1252
00:53:57,790 --> 00:54:00,620
and an addictions
researcher here in Boston.

1253
00:54:00,620 --> 00:54:03,780
As such, I spend a large
majority of my time working

1254
00:54:03,780 --> 00:54:06,460
on solutions to improve
the health and wellbeing

1255
00:54:06,460 --> 00:54:08,070
of vulnerable populations,

1256
00:54:08,070 --> 00:54:10,460
including people who are
experiencing homelessness,

1257
00:54:10,460 --> 00:54:12,596
people with substance use disorders.

1258
00:54:12,596 --> 00:54:16,770
One thing that we know
is that stigma and bias

1259
00:54:17,635 --> 00:54:18,710
are pervasive throughout our community

1260
00:54:18,710 --> 00:54:22,070
and lead to disparities and
care for these populations.

1261
00:54:22,070 --> 00:54:24,540
These disparities were laid bare

1262
00:54:24,540 --> 00:54:28,840
and exacerbated by the
ongoing COVID-19 pandemic.

1263
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:31,050
Well, we're all searching for answers

1264
00:54:31,050 --> 00:54:34,010
on how to best protect
ourselves from this virus,

1265
00:54:34,010 --> 00:54:37,530
I truly fear that the use of
facial recognition technology

1266
00:54:37,530 --> 00:54:41,260
will only serve to exacerbate
existing disparities,

1267
00:54:41,260 --> 00:54:44,930
including those of racial,
gender and socioeconomic.

1268
00:54:44,930 --> 00:54:48,280
If we use this very nascent
and imperfect technology

1269
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:50,320
to track individuals, I'm concerned

1270
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:53,240
that it will only serve
the marginalized people

1271
00:54:53,240 --> 00:54:55,170
and worse in health outcomes.

1272
00:54:55,170 --> 00:54:57,660
We've heard about the low accuracy rates.

1273
00:54:57,660 --> 00:54:59,890
We know about systemic racism,

1274
00:54:59,890 --> 00:55:01,360
as a public health issue

1275
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:04,648
that's fueled by stigma
bias and misinformation.

1276
00:55:04,648 --> 00:55:08,530
Additionally, Boston
provides expansive services

1277
00:55:08,530 --> 00:55:11,730
for substance use disorders,
including methadone treatment,

1278
00:55:11,730 --> 00:55:16,730
and it's imperative that we
ban facial recognition software

1279
00:55:16,810 --> 00:55:18,160
to ensure that people seeking

1280
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:21,020
substance use disorder
treatment and mental health care

1281
00:55:23,249 --> 00:55:25,650
among other stigmatized health
services may do so privately

1282
00:55:25,650 --> 00:55:26,803
and without fear.

1283
00:55:27,870 --> 00:55:30,780
If we allow this on many
of our public cameras,

1284
00:55:30,780 --> 00:55:32,350
it would enable the government

1285
00:55:32,350 --> 00:55:34,520
to automatically compile lists of people

1286
00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:37,670
seeking treatment for
substance use mental health

1287
00:55:37,670 --> 00:55:41,470
and as I said, other stigmas
stigmatized health conditions.

1288
00:55:41,470 --> 00:55:43,120
This would have a chilling effect

1289
00:55:44,170 --> 00:55:48,270
and disproportionately affect

1290
00:55:48,270 --> 00:55:50,690
our most vulnerable populations.

1291
00:55:50,690 --> 00:55:55,690
I'll stop there and ask that
we consider banning this.

1292
00:55:58,351 --> 00:55:59,500
Thank you so very much.

1293
00:55:59,500 --> 00:56:00,793
I'm gonna turn it over.

1294
00:56:02,148 --> 00:56:05,810
I misspoke earlier the lead
sponsor, there's Michelle Wu,

1295
00:56:05,810 --> 00:56:09,828
and she mentioned that she has
to move along very quickly.

1296
00:56:09,828 --> 00:56:11,930
So I wanted to, if it's
okay, councilor Arroyo,

1297
00:56:11,930 --> 00:56:15,120
I'm gonna go ahead and go
to councilor Wu real quick,

1298
00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:16,540
for specific questions.

1299
00:56:16,540 --> 00:56:18,660
Your good!
Yeah, absolutely.

1300
00:56:18,660 --> 00:56:19,920
Councilor Wu.

1301
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:21,180
Thank you madam chair.

1302
00:56:21,180 --> 00:56:22,770
And thank you so much commissioner

1303
00:56:22,770 --> 00:56:24,380
for making the time to be here.

1304
00:56:24,380 --> 00:56:27,463
We all know how many demands
there are in your time.

1305
00:56:27,463 --> 00:56:29,240
And now we're asking for even
more than you had alluded.

1306
00:56:29,240 --> 00:56:32,340
So very, very grateful that it means a lot

1307
00:56:32,340 --> 00:56:35,810
that you took the time and
are the one at this hearing.

1308
00:56:35,810 --> 00:56:38,820
I also wanna note that you
were the one at the hearing

1309
00:56:38,820 --> 00:56:40,520
in June, 2018 as well.

1310
00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:43,080
So we know that you've been
part of this conversation

1311
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:46,610
and supportive of this
general idea for a long time.

1312
00:56:46,610 --> 00:56:48,662
So just to clarify on
some of what you said,

1313
00:56:48,662 --> 00:56:51,443
you mentioned that you,

1314
00:56:51,443 --> 00:56:53,684
you referenced the technology upgrades,

1315
00:56:53,684 --> 00:56:55,460
that some current vendors
that BPD works with

1316
00:56:55,460 --> 00:56:57,666
have for face surveillance.

1317
00:56:57,666 --> 00:56:58,499
So just to clarify,

1318
00:56:58,499 --> 00:57:01,862
has BPD upgraded to the next
version of that software

1319
00:57:01,862 --> 00:57:03,260
and we're just choosing

1320
00:57:03,260 --> 00:57:06,800
not to use the facial
recognition components of it,

1321
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:08,590
or has the upgrade not been accepted

1322
00:57:08,590 --> 00:57:10,540
because it includes facial recognition?

1323
00:57:11,470 --> 00:57:13,370
To my knowledge, we have not upgraded,

1324
00:57:13,370 --> 00:57:15,830
but we anticipate that we will have to,

1325
00:57:15,830 --> 00:57:19,190
but we will not be using any components

1326
00:57:19,190 --> 00:57:20,970
of facial recognition.

1327
00:57:20,970 --> 00:57:25,970
And I guess the technology
just isn't efficient enough -

1328
00:57:26,464 --> 00:57:29,793
When do you think the
upgrade would likely happen?

1329
00:57:30,700 --> 00:57:32,527
No, I will get back to you.

1330
00:57:32,527 --> 00:57:34,790
And trust me, I wanna
have a further meeting

1331
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:38,240
so I can have my subject
matter experts here.

1332
00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:40,472
And I'm gonna tick through,

1333
00:57:40,472 --> 00:57:41,876
'cause I wanna try to get you out of here

1334
00:57:41,876 --> 00:57:42,709
as quick as possible.

1335
00:57:42,709 --> 00:57:43,990
Secondly, so you drew a distinction

1336
00:57:43,990 --> 00:57:46,700
between face surveillance systems

1337
00:57:46,700 --> 00:57:48,860
and facial recognition technology.

1338
00:57:48,860 --> 00:57:50,130
So just to clarify,

1339
00:57:50,130 --> 00:57:53,620
does BPD, we don't use that.

1340
00:57:53,620 --> 00:57:55,314
You don't own it right now

1341
00:57:55,314 --> 00:57:56,710
because you haven't done that upgrade,

1342
00:57:56,710 --> 00:58:01,710
but does BPD work with other
state or federal entities

1343
00:58:02,650 --> 00:58:04,680
that have face surveillance

1344
00:58:04,680 --> 00:58:06,190
or facial recognition technology?

1345
00:58:06,190 --> 00:58:08,822
Do you ever use the
results of that technology

1346
00:58:08,822 --> 00:58:10,270
on any sort of databases?

1347
00:58:10,270 --> 00:58:12,161
To answer you more accurately,

1348
00:58:12,161 --> 00:58:15,670
I would have to find out.

1349
00:58:15,670 --> 00:58:17,920
I believe the state police

1350
00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:20,800
does have some form of facial recognition

1351
00:58:20,800 --> 00:58:22,950
and maybe the registry to.

1352
00:58:22,950 --> 00:58:24,900
Okay, the registry of motor vehicles.

1353
00:58:24,900 --> 00:58:26,560
Yes.

1354
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:29,940
And so when state police or

1355
00:58:29,940 --> 00:58:31,740
we'll find out more potentially BPD

1356
00:58:31,740 --> 00:58:34,970
works with the RMB to
run matches of photos

1357
00:58:34,970 --> 00:58:36,280
against their database.

1358
00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:38,300
Do you need any sort of warrants

1359
00:58:38,300 --> 00:58:40,410
or other approvals to do that before,

1360
00:58:40,410 --> 00:58:42,357
for let's say the state?

1361
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:48,270
So I used to be part of
the Bureau of Investigative

1362
00:58:48,270 --> 00:58:49,820
Services, to my knowledge,

1363
00:58:49,820 --> 00:58:53,718
it's only utilized to help
assist in photo arrays.

1364
00:58:53,718 --> 00:58:57,003
So nothing past that.

1365
00:58:58,150 --> 00:59:00,790
Okay, could you just clarify
what you mean by that?

1366
00:59:00,790 --> 00:59:03,180
So if you a victim of a crime

1367
00:59:03,180 --> 00:59:05,010
and we don't have that
person under arrest,

1368
00:59:05,010 --> 00:59:07,470
what do we do have a potential suspect?

1369
00:59:07,470 --> 00:59:08,830
You have to pick,

1370
00:59:08,830 --> 00:59:10,910
you were allowed the opportunity

1371
00:59:10,910 --> 00:59:15,380
to try to identify the
suspect of the crime.

1372
00:59:15,380 --> 00:59:16,890
And so to be fair,

1373
00:59:16,890 --> 00:59:20,223
to ensure that no innocent
person is selected,

1374
00:59:23,300 --> 00:59:27,277
you put the suspects picture

1375
00:59:27,277 --> 00:59:30,020
along with several other suspects pictures

1376
00:59:30,020 --> 00:59:31,250
up to seven or more,

1377
00:59:31,250 --> 00:59:33,730
and then you see if
the victim of the crime

1378
00:59:33,730 --> 00:59:37,313
can pick the suspect
out of that photo array.

1379
00:59:38,410 --> 00:59:41,710
Okay, and so the RMB
uses the face recognition

1380
00:59:41,710 --> 00:59:43,490
to provide those burdens.

1381
00:59:43,490 --> 00:59:47,210
I wanna give you an accurate answer.

1382
00:59:47,210 --> 00:59:52,210
So again, in our next meeting,
you'll have your answer.

1383
00:59:53,010 --> 00:59:53,843
Thank you.

1384
00:59:56,750 --> 00:59:59,830
Are you aware of any state
or federal regulations

1385
00:59:59,830 --> 01:00:03,736
that provide any sort
of kind of restrictions

1386
01:00:03,736 --> 01:00:05,340
or reigning in guidance when it comes

1387
01:00:06,193 --> 01:00:07,680
to facial recognition technology

1388
01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:09,283
or face surveillance systems?

1389
01:00:10,260 --> 01:00:11,230
Nope.

1390
01:00:11,230 --> 01:00:15,500
Okay, and so given the absence
of guidelines right now

1391
01:00:15,500 --> 01:00:17,020
with the federal state or city level

1392
01:00:17,020 --> 01:00:20,670
and the need to upgrade and
the use by state police,

1393
01:00:20,670 --> 01:00:22,958
for example, are you supportive,

1394
01:00:22,958 --> 01:00:25,053
we're hearing you loud and clear

1395
01:00:25,053 --> 01:00:25,886
that you'd like to have
further conversation,

1396
01:00:25,886 --> 01:00:28,100
we just wanna get your opinion now,

1397
01:00:28,100 --> 01:00:30,974
are you supportive of a city level ban

1398
01:00:30,974 --> 01:00:34,810
until there are policies
in place potentially,

1399
01:00:34,810 --> 01:00:38,830
at other levels or
specifically at the city level

1400
01:00:38,830 --> 01:00:41,310
to reign in surveillance overall?

1401
01:00:41,310 --> 01:00:42,320
Yes, I am.

1402
01:00:42,320 --> 01:00:44,960
I've been clear for four years.

1403
01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:46,770
We need your input, your guidance.

1404
01:00:46,770 --> 01:00:49,290
And I thank you to everyone
that testified today.

1405
01:00:49,290 --> 01:00:51,360
I have a team taking notes

1406
01:00:51,360 --> 01:00:54,160
because I didn't forget
that I'm African-American

1407
01:00:54,160 --> 01:00:56,600
and I could be misidentified as well.

1408
01:00:56,600 --> 01:01:00,430
And I believe that we have
one of the most diversified

1409
01:01:00,430 --> 01:01:03,020
populations in the history of our city.

1410
01:01:03,020 --> 01:01:06,193
And we do have to be fair to everyone

1411
01:01:06,193 --> 01:01:08,470
that is a citizen of Boston.

1412
01:01:08,470 --> 01:01:10,960
We don't want anyone misidentified.

1413
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:15,150
And again we will work with everyone here

1414
01:01:15,150 --> 01:01:18,090
because this is how we will be educated.

1415
01:01:18,090 --> 01:01:20,199
Yes, we're very grateful for your time.

1416
01:01:20,199 --> 01:01:21,810
I'm gonna see to the co-sponsor.

1417
01:01:21,810 --> 01:01:22,643
Thank you.

1418
01:01:23,850 --> 01:01:27,956
So, actually, is that fine chair?

1419
01:01:27,956 --> 01:01:31,210
I just wanna thank you commissioner

1420
01:01:31,210 --> 01:01:34,637
for supporting the facial
recognition surveillance ban

1421
01:01:34,637 --> 01:01:37,354
and for taking the time to
be here for the questions.

1422
01:01:37,354 --> 01:01:39,210
Councilor Wu asked many of them,

1423
01:01:39,210 --> 01:01:41,500
I have one specific one which is,

1424
01:01:41,500 --> 01:01:45,100
has the BPD used facial
recognition in the past,

1425
01:01:45,100 --> 01:01:46,223
in any capacity?

1426
01:01:47,534 --> 01:01:49,350
No, not to my knowledge.

1427
01:01:49,350 --> 01:01:53,230
And I will review that, but
not to my knowledge at all.

1428
01:01:53,230 --> 01:01:56,540
And BRC, does BRC have access

1429
01:01:57,892 --> 01:01:58,725
to facial recognition techniques?

1430
01:01:58,725 --> 01:01:59,790
Nope, not at all.

1431
01:01:59,790 --> 01:02:03,170
We don't use it and I
anticipated that question

1432
01:02:03,170 --> 01:02:06,640
and we make sure that
we're not a part of any,

1433
01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:09,230
BRC does not have facial recognition.

1434
01:02:09,230 --> 01:02:11,420
Okay, I think every other question

1435
01:02:11,420 --> 01:02:13,830
that I had for you today
was asked by councilor Wu.

1436
01:02:13,830 --> 01:02:15,540
So I just thank you for
taking the time to be here

1437
01:02:15,540 --> 01:02:18,100
and for supporting this, thank you.

1438
01:02:18,100 --> 01:02:19,440
Thank you, and before I go,

1439
01:02:19,440 --> 01:02:22,500
for the record, nothing
has changed in my opinion

1440
01:02:22,500 --> 01:02:24,340
from four years ago,

1441
01:02:24,340 --> 01:02:26,573
until this technology
is a hundred percent,

1442
01:02:26,573 --> 01:02:28,803
I'm not interested in it.

1443
01:02:29,640 --> 01:02:33,510
And even when it is a hundred percent,

1444
01:02:33,510 --> 01:02:35,970
you've committed to a
conversation about it?

1445
01:02:35,970 --> 01:02:38,000
Absolutely, we discussed that before.

1446
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:39,610
That you have.

1447
01:02:39,610 --> 01:02:43,298
It's not something that
you can just implement.

1448
01:02:43,298 --> 01:02:45,631
[crosstalk]

1449
01:02:47,194 --> 01:02:51,813
It's important that we also get
the input from the community

1450
01:02:53,136 --> 01:02:54,660
that we serve and work in partnership

1451
01:02:56,575 --> 01:02:59,150
so we can of course have
a better quality of life.

1452
01:02:59,150 --> 01:03:03,090
And hat's inclusive of everyone's
expectation of privacy.

1453
01:03:03,090 --> 01:03:04,690
So before you go,

1454
01:03:04,690 --> 01:03:09,690
I'm gonna do this one call out
the panelists that just spoke

1455
01:03:10,040 --> 01:03:11,450
or to any city councilors.

1456
01:03:11,450 --> 01:03:13,970
One question that you may
have for the commissioner

1457
01:03:13,970 --> 01:03:16,433
that you need to ask,
do any of you have that?

1458
01:03:17,880 --> 01:03:22,880
Do either Joy, My'Kel,
Karina, Kade, Erik, Joshua,

1459
01:03:23,720 --> 01:03:25,010
or to the other city councilors.

1460
01:03:25,010 --> 01:03:26,530
I'm trying to be mindful of his time

1461
01:03:26,530 --> 01:03:28,733
but I also understand

1462
01:03:28,733 --> 01:03:31,480
you guys also gave time
to be here today as well.

1463
01:03:31,480 --> 01:03:35,236
And if you wanted to ask him
representing BPD a question.

1464
01:03:35,236 --> 01:03:39,150
I see Julia Mejia has raised her hand,

1465
01:03:39,150 --> 01:03:40,540
to the panelists though,

1466
01:03:40,540 --> 01:03:42,383
who just spoke any questions?

1467
01:03:43,240 --> 01:03:46,490
I'm gonna go now to my
colleagues to ask one question.

1468
01:03:46,490 --> 01:03:48,688
So that allows for him to go.

1469
01:03:48,688 --> 01:03:50,820
Okay, councilor Mejia

1470
01:03:52,090 --> 01:03:56,140
Yes, I just wanted to quickly
thank commissioner Gross

1471
01:03:56,140 --> 01:03:59,473
for your time and just
your steadfast leadership.

1472
01:04:00,450 --> 01:04:03,670
But I do have just a quick
question before you go.

1473
01:04:03,670 --> 01:04:05,110
I just need some clarity,

1474
01:04:05,110 --> 01:04:07,190
is that you mentioned that
you hope to keep this hearing

1475
01:04:07,190 --> 01:04:08,400
on the topic of the ordinance

1476
01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:12,160
and find other ways to adjust
issues of police relations.

1477
01:04:12,160 --> 01:04:14,560
So a lot of people draw the direct link

1478
01:04:14,560 --> 01:04:16,770
between facial recognition

1479
01:04:16,770 --> 01:04:18,160
and relationships with the community.

1480
01:04:18,160 --> 01:04:19,373
Do you see that link?

1481
01:04:20,590 --> 01:04:22,100
And can you talk about
how the police department

1482
01:04:22,100 --> 01:04:23,875
sees that link?

1483
01:04:23,875 --> 01:04:24,900
I'm just really curious about

1484
01:04:24,900 --> 01:04:28,690
how do we build relationships
with the community

1485
01:04:28,690 --> 01:04:31,120
while also thinking
about facial recognition?

1486
01:04:31,120 --> 01:04:32,540
Like, how do you reconcile that?

1487
01:04:32,540 --> 01:04:33,593
I can answer that,

1488
01:04:35,020 --> 01:04:36,660
the information I was given before

1489
01:04:36,660 --> 01:04:41,120
that we were going to
discuss many subjects.

1490
01:04:41,120 --> 01:04:44,610
And so I thank you for
eliminating this one,

1491
01:04:44,610 --> 01:04:47,260
but the only way you
increase relationships

1492
01:04:47,260 --> 01:04:49,460
with the community is to have

1493
01:04:49,460 --> 01:04:51,536
hold hard discussions like this one.

1494
01:04:51,536 --> 01:04:56,010
You have to listen to the
people that you serve,

1495
01:04:56,010 --> 01:04:58,593
because everyone throws around

1496
01:04:58,593 --> 01:04:59,760
the moniker community policing.

1497
01:04:59,760 --> 01:05:01,680
I believe that's become jaded.

1498
01:05:01,680 --> 01:05:05,020
And so I've created a bureau
of community engagement

1499
01:05:05,020 --> 01:05:07,480
so that we can have these discussions.

1500
01:05:07,480 --> 01:05:09,610
And again, I don't forget my history.

1501
01:05:09,610 --> 01:05:11,600
I haven't forgotten my history.

1502
01:05:11,600 --> 01:05:15,673
I came on in 1983 and I've
gone through a lot of racism,

1503
01:05:15,673 --> 01:05:20,000
was in a tough neighborhood growing up,

1504
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:21,700
and I didn't forget any of that.

1505
01:05:21,700 --> 01:05:25,460
And as you alluded to earlier,
some of the city councilors,

1506
01:05:25,460 --> 01:05:27,910
I'm always in the street
talking to people,

1507
01:05:27,910 --> 01:05:32,080
I get a lot of criticism of
law enforcement in general,

1508
01:05:32,080 --> 01:05:35,540
but I believe in if you
want change, be the change,

1509
01:05:35,540 --> 01:05:37,610
you can only change with the people.

1510
01:05:37,610 --> 01:05:42,610
So, I am looking forward
to further conversation

1511
01:05:43,410 --> 01:05:47,171
and to listening to testimony
on how we can improve

1512
01:05:47,171 --> 01:05:48,780
our community relations,

1513
01:05:48,780 --> 01:05:53,570
especially not only throwing
the time civil unrest,

1514
01:05:53,570 --> 01:05:56,240
but we're in the middle
of a pandemic as well.

1515
01:05:56,240 --> 01:05:58,440
And so police departments

1516
01:05:58,440 --> 01:06:01,474
should not be separated
from the community.

1517
01:06:01,474 --> 01:06:04,850
You have to have empathy,
sympathy, care and respect.

1518
01:06:04,850 --> 01:06:06,980
A lot of people have lost jobs,

1519
01:06:06,980 --> 01:06:10,080
and we must keep in mind
about socioeconomics,

1520
01:06:10,080 --> 01:06:14,410
fairness for employment.

1521
01:06:14,410 --> 01:06:16,260
A lot of those things

1522
01:06:16,260 --> 01:06:20,170
directly affect the
neighborhoods of color.

1523
01:06:20,170 --> 01:06:22,520
And I'm glad that we are increasing

1524
01:06:22,520 --> 01:06:24,320
our diversity in the communities.

1525
01:06:24,320 --> 01:06:27,550
And we currently currently
have organizations in Boston

1526
01:06:27,550 --> 01:06:29,550
that directly speaks to the people.

1527
01:06:29,550 --> 01:06:32,330
The Latino Law Enforcement Organization,

1528
01:06:32,330 --> 01:06:34,278
the Cabo Verde Police Associations,

1529
01:06:34,278 --> 01:06:39,278
the Benevolent Asian Jade Society.

1530
01:06:39,474 --> 01:06:42,766
Our department is increasing in diversity,

1531
01:06:42,766 --> 01:06:44,810
and the benefit of that,

1532
01:06:44,810 --> 01:06:47,250
the benefit of having representation

1533
01:06:47,250 --> 01:06:49,620
from every neighborhood we serve,

1534
01:06:49,620 --> 01:06:52,210
is that it will improve relationships.

1535
01:06:52,210 --> 01:06:54,550
So again, that's why I'm looking forward

1536
01:06:54,550 --> 01:06:57,389
to a working session and
my team is taking notes

1537
01:06:57,389 --> 01:07:02,119
because everybody's everybody's
testimony is important.

1538
01:07:02,119 --> 01:07:05,840
Trust me, people like you that worked hard

1539
01:07:05,840 --> 01:07:06,810
for everyone's rights.

1540
01:07:06,810 --> 01:07:07,710
I wouldn't be here

1541
01:07:07,710 --> 01:07:10,340
as the first African-American
police commissioner,

1542
01:07:10,340 --> 01:07:11,630
if we didn't have folks

1543
01:07:11,630 --> 01:07:15,863
that exercise their
First Amendment Rights.

1544
01:07:17,079 --> 01:07:17,980
Thank you, commissioner Gross,

1545
01:07:17,980 --> 01:07:19,550
I have a clarifying question.

1546
01:07:19,550 --> 01:07:22,020
And then I just wanted to note,

1547
01:07:22,020 --> 01:07:24,680
this impacts the staying in.

1548
01:07:24,680 --> 01:07:28,150
So for folks who,
commissioner Gross has alluded

1549
01:07:28,150 --> 01:07:29,090
to a working session,

1550
01:07:29,090 --> 01:07:31,720
just to give some clarification
for those watching,

1551
01:07:31,720 --> 01:07:33,150
that is when we actually get down

1552
01:07:33,150 --> 01:07:35,550
to the language of the ordinance

1553
01:07:35,550 --> 01:07:38,190
and work down to the
comments is what I say

1554
01:07:38,190 --> 01:07:39,798
and how to do that.

1555
01:07:39,798 --> 01:07:41,200
And so what commissioner Gross is asking

1556
01:07:41,200 --> 01:07:44,070
that we have that conversation
within the next 60 days,

1557
01:07:44,070 --> 01:07:45,303
which I'm fine with doing that,

1558
01:07:45,303 --> 01:07:47,410
I'll just check with the lead sponsors.

1559
01:07:47,410 --> 01:07:49,790
I did wanna make sure I understood

1560
01:07:49,790 --> 01:07:52,480
what in terms of timing is
going on with the contract,

1561
01:07:52,480 --> 01:07:57,200
is BPD entering into a contract
that has this technology?

1562
01:07:57,200 --> 01:07:58,530
There was a timing issue

1563
01:07:58,530 --> 01:08:01,790
that I thought was warranting this hearing

1564
01:08:01,790 --> 01:08:02,740
happening very fast.

1565
01:08:02,740 --> 01:08:04,980
Maybe the lead sponsors could
also answer this question.

1566
01:08:04,980 --> 01:08:06,360
I was confused,

1567
01:08:06,360 --> 01:08:09,640
if someone could explain what was the...

1568
01:08:09,640 --> 01:08:12,100
there's a sense of urgency
that I felt that I was meeting

1569
01:08:12,100 --> 01:08:13,660
and I'm happy to meet it.

1570
01:08:13,660 --> 01:08:17,347
Just if someone either, I
saw you Kade, you nodded.

1571
01:08:17,347 --> 01:08:21,410
Let me just figure out what
this contract issue is Kade.

1572
01:08:21,410 --> 01:08:24,830
Sure councilor, I'd be
happy to address that.

1573
01:08:24,830 --> 01:08:27,660
We obtained public records
from the city a while back

1574
01:08:27,660 --> 01:08:29,710
showing that the Boston Police Department

1575
01:08:31,154 --> 01:08:32,766
has a contract with a
company called BriefCam

1576
01:08:32,766 --> 01:08:34,510
that expired on May 14th.

1577
01:08:37,478 --> 01:08:41,390
And the contract was for version
4.3 of BriefCam software,

1578
01:08:41,390 --> 01:08:44,630
which did not include facial
surveillance algorithms.

1579
01:08:44,630 --> 01:08:47,210
The current version of
BriefCam's technology

1580
01:08:47,210 --> 01:08:50,300
does include facial
surveillance algorithms.

1581
01:08:50,300 --> 01:08:53,130
And so one of the reasons
that the councilors

1582
01:08:53,130 --> 01:08:55,510
and the advocacy groups
behind this measure

1583
01:08:55,510 --> 01:08:59,374
were urging you chair
to schedule this quickly

1584
01:08:59,374 --> 01:09:01,230
is so that we could pass this ban fast

1585
01:09:01,230 --> 01:09:02,450
to ensure that the city

1586
01:09:02,450 --> 01:09:06,223
does not enter into a contract
to upgrade that technology.

1587
01:09:07,480 --> 01:09:09,280
Thank you, commissioner Gross,

1588
01:09:09,280 --> 01:09:10,840
where are we on this contract?

1589
01:09:10,840 --> 01:09:11,850
Yep and thank you.

1590
01:09:11,850 --> 01:09:13,980
That's exactly what I was gonna comment.

1591
01:09:13,980 --> 01:09:15,580
The older version of BriefCam

1592
01:09:15,580 --> 01:09:17,587
did not have facial recognition

1593
01:09:17,587 --> 01:09:20,690
and I believe that the newer version does.

1594
01:09:20,690 --> 01:09:25,620
BriefCam works on the old version

1595
01:09:25,620 --> 01:09:27,960
on condensing objects, cars,

1596
01:09:27,960 --> 01:09:31,200
but I would definitely
check on that contract

1597
01:09:31,200 --> 01:09:34,300
because I don't want any technology

1598
01:09:34,300 --> 01:09:36,280
that has facial recognition

1599
01:09:37,937 --> 01:09:40,170
and that's exactly what
we were gonna check on

1600
01:09:40,170 --> 01:09:45,170
and so my answer right
now is no at this point.

1601
01:09:46,654 --> 01:09:50,040
I've just read into testimony,

1602
01:09:50,040 --> 01:09:55,000
if we obtain technology such as that,

1603
01:09:55,000 --> 01:09:57,510
I should be speaking to all of you

1604
01:09:57,510 --> 01:09:59,883
and to what that entails,

1605
01:10:04,595 --> 01:10:08,368
if we have BriefCam and
it has facial recognition

1606
01:10:08,368 --> 01:10:10,276
[indistinct] that allows
for facial recognition, no.

1607
01:10:10,276 --> 01:10:12,110
And if someone did, if we
did go into a contract,

1608
01:10:12,110 --> 01:10:14,913
would I have the ability to show you

1609
01:10:14,913 --> 01:10:18,970
that that portion that does
have facial recognition,

1610
01:10:18,970 --> 01:10:20,830
that that can be censored?

1611
01:10:20,830 --> 01:10:24,430
That that is not, excuse
me, poor choice of words

1612
01:10:24,430 --> 01:10:26,350
that that can be excluded.

1613
01:10:26,350 --> 01:10:29,340
And so I'm not comfortable
with that contract

1614
01:10:29,340 --> 01:10:31,000
until I know more about it.

1615
01:10:31,000 --> 01:10:33,860
I don't want any part
of facial recognition.

1616
01:10:33,860 --> 01:10:36,815
But as I read into testimony,

1617
01:10:36,815 --> 01:10:39,912
all the technology
that's going forward now

1618
01:10:39,912 --> 01:10:41,690
in many fields is like,

1619
01:10:41,690 --> 01:10:43,320
hey we have facial recognition

1620
01:10:43,320 --> 01:10:45,650
and I'm like not comfortable with that.

1621
01:10:45,650 --> 01:10:50,430
And so BriefCam, yeah the old version,

1622
01:10:50,430 --> 01:10:52,530
we hardly ever used it.

1623
01:10:52,530 --> 01:10:54,850
And there is discussion on the new version

1624
01:10:54,850 --> 01:10:56,589
and I'm not comfortable

1625
01:10:56,589 --> 01:10:58,889
with the facial recognition
component of that.

1626
01:11:00,340 --> 01:11:01,210
Thank you very much.

1627
01:11:01,210 --> 01:11:04,050
And thank you very much
Kade for the background

1628
01:11:04,050 --> 01:11:07,010
and understanding both of
you, and understanding.

1629
01:11:07,010 --> 01:11:09,640
I felt a sense to move
fast and I'm moving fast,

1630
01:11:09,640 --> 01:11:12,320
but I was trying to make
sure I understood what for.

1631
01:11:12,320 --> 01:11:14,140
I really do have to go.

1632
01:11:14,140 --> 01:11:15,330
Yes, thank you very much.

1633
01:11:15,330 --> 01:11:18,340
Thank you all for your input.

1634
01:11:18,340 --> 01:11:21,190
Will there someone be taking
notes or is there someone,

1635
01:11:23,315 --> 01:11:25,080
I guess Neil from the mayor's
office will be taking notes.

1636
01:11:25,080 --> 01:11:28,000
And I have my own team
taking notes right now.

1637
01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:30,072
Excellent, thank you very much.

1638
01:11:30,072 --> 01:11:32,230
Thank you for your testimony.

1639
01:11:32,230 --> 01:11:34,480
If it weren't for
advocates, such as everyone

1640
01:11:34,480 --> 01:11:39,480
on this Zoom call, I wouldn't
be here in this capacity.

1641
01:11:39,920 --> 01:11:40,783
So thank you.

1642
01:11:41,937 --> 01:11:43,560
Thank you very much commissioner.

1643
01:11:43,560 --> 01:11:46,517
Thank you everyone take care.

1644
01:11:46,517 --> 01:11:48,250
Okay, thank you very much.

1645
01:11:48,250 --> 01:11:52,316
And so we have a still a
robust conversation to have

1646
01:11:52,316 --> 01:11:56,560
amongst ourselves about the
language, about the goals,

1647
01:11:56,560 --> 01:11:59,710
whether it goes far enough,
if anyone opposes this ban,

1648
01:11:59,710 --> 01:12:02,120
and I want people to understand

1649
01:12:02,120 --> 01:12:04,810
if there is someone who
disagrees with a lot of us,

1650
01:12:04,810 --> 01:12:06,810
this will be a respectful conversation

1651
01:12:06,810 --> 01:12:09,340
and that person will be
welcome to have their opinion

1652
01:12:09,340 --> 01:12:11,820
and express it as every single one of us

1653
01:12:11,820 --> 01:12:12,820
has been able to do.

1654
01:12:13,655 --> 01:12:14,670
So I'm gonna continue now,

1655
01:12:14,670 --> 01:12:17,493
there's a list of folks
who have signed up to speak

1656
01:12:17,493 --> 01:12:19,890
and I'm gonna continue down that list

1657
01:12:19,890 --> 01:12:23,570
and keep them to no
more than three minutes

1658
01:12:24,470 --> 01:12:26,013
and then we're gonna open up.

1659
01:12:26,013 --> 01:12:28,371
Oh, I'm so sorry, I apologize.

1660
01:12:28,371 --> 01:12:31,294
Before I go down a list,
I know my councilor,

1661
01:12:31,294 --> 01:12:33,730
my colleagues also may
have questions or concerns

1662
01:12:33,730 --> 01:12:36,380
or may wanna voice certain
things about the legislation.

1663
01:12:36,380 --> 01:12:37,794
And I apologize.

1664
01:12:37,794 --> 01:12:38,793
[Lydia giggles]

1665
01:12:38,793 --> 01:12:40,970
So I'm just so amped to get
to the public testimony.

1666
01:12:40,970 --> 01:12:43,310
So I'm gonna go ahead and
go in order of arrival,

1667
01:12:43,310 --> 01:12:45,450
the two lead sponsors have
asked questions already

1668
01:12:45,450 --> 01:12:47,040
of the commissioner.

1669
01:12:47,040 --> 01:12:49,580
Did they have the councilor
Wu or councilor Arroyo

1670
01:12:49,580 --> 01:12:52,980
have any questions for the
panelists that just spoke?

1671
01:12:52,980 --> 01:12:55,383
If not, I'll move on
to my other colleagues.

1672
01:12:56,860 --> 01:12:59,069
MICHELLE: I'm happy to
defer to colleagues,

1673
01:12:59,069 --> 01:12:59,902
thank you madam chair.

1674
01:12:59,902 --> 01:13:01,903
Very well, councilor Arroyo.

1675
01:13:01,903 --> 01:13:03,923
The only question I would have,

1676
01:13:03,923 --> 01:13:06,800
which is more to, I
think Kade from the ACLU,

1677
01:13:06,800 --> 01:13:09,260
is whether or not she has any idea

1678
01:13:09,260 --> 01:13:10,410
where we are on that contract.

1679
01:13:10,410 --> 01:13:13,010
From what I heard from commissioner Gross,

1680
01:13:13,010 --> 01:13:15,320
it sounded like he couldn't confirm

1681
01:13:15,320 --> 01:13:16,940
the timeline for that contract,

1682
01:13:16,940 --> 01:13:18,660
whether or not it's been
signed or not signed,

1683
01:13:18,660 --> 01:13:20,380
what's going on with that contract.

1684
01:13:20,380 --> 01:13:22,824
Does any panelists here
have any information

1685
01:13:22,824 --> 01:13:24,910
on whether or not that contract is,

1686
01:13:24,910 --> 01:13:26,720
what the status of that is?

1687
01:13:26,720 --> 01:13:28,762
Thanks for the question, councilor Arroyo.

1688
01:13:28,762 --> 01:13:29,960
Regrettably no.

1689
01:13:29,960 --> 01:13:32,400
We filed a public records request

1690
01:13:32,400 --> 01:13:34,840
with the Boston Police
Department on May 14th,

1691
01:13:34,840 --> 01:13:36,400
so that was about a month ago,

1692
01:13:36,400 --> 01:13:38,380
asking just for one simple document

1693
01:13:38,380 --> 01:13:40,860
for the existing contract

1694
01:13:40,860 --> 01:13:43,400
that the Boston Police
Department has with BriefCam

1695
01:13:43,400 --> 01:13:44,990
and they haven't sent it to us yet.

1696
01:13:44,990 --> 01:13:49,050
So, and we've prided them
multiple times about it,

1697
01:13:49,050 --> 01:13:51,150
including on Friday saying,

1698
01:13:51,150 --> 01:13:51,983
it would be a real shame

1699
01:13:51,983 --> 01:13:54,200
if we had to go to this hearing on Tuesday

1700
01:13:54,200 --> 01:13:57,130
without this information and
we still haven't received it,

1701
01:13:57,130 --> 01:13:58,283
so we do not.

1702
01:13:59,384 --> 01:14:00,563
Thank you.

1703
01:14:01,758 --> 01:14:04,650
That all councilor Arroyo?

1704
01:14:04,650 --> 01:14:06,640
Very well, councilor Breadon.

1705
01:14:10,950 --> 01:14:12,540
Thank you.

1706
01:14:12,540 --> 01:14:14,610
This has been very informative,

1707
01:14:14,610 --> 01:14:18,460
very good questions from my colleagues.

1708
01:14:18,460 --> 01:14:23,460
One question I had was, other
agencies, federal agencies,

1709
01:14:24,270 --> 01:14:26,150
are they using facial recognition?

1710
01:14:26,150 --> 01:14:29,640
And if they are they
sharing that information

1711
01:14:29,640 --> 01:14:30,990
with our police department?

1712
01:14:33,150 --> 01:14:35,860
Does anyone know the
answer to that question?

1713
01:14:35,860 --> 01:14:39,050
I can speak to that, Joy
Buolomwini if you're still on,

1714
01:14:39,050 --> 01:14:41,289
you may wanna speak to some of those too.

1715
01:14:41,289 --> 01:14:46,289
So the ACLU we nationwide have
been filing FOIAR requests,

1716
01:14:47,060 --> 01:14:49,360
Freedom of Information Act Requests

1717
01:14:49,360 --> 01:14:51,380
with various federal agencies

1718
01:14:51,380 --> 01:14:53,430
to learn about how the federal government

1719
01:14:55,015 --> 01:14:56,510
is using this technology
and how they're sharing

1720
01:14:57,873 --> 01:14:59,193
information derived from the technology,

1721
01:14:59,193 --> 01:15:00,858
with state and local law enforcement.

1722
01:15:00,858 --> 01:15:03,180
We know for example, that
in the city of Boston,

1723
01:15:03,180 --> 01:15:06,020
the Boston Police Department works closely

1724
01:15:06,020 --> 01:15:07,060
not only with I.C.E,

1725
01:15:07,060 --> 01:15:09,260
which has been the subject
of much consternation

1726
01:15:09,260 --> 01:15:11,470
and debate before this body,

1727
01:15:11,470 --> 01:15:12,900
but also with the FBI,

1728
01:15:12,900 --> 01:15:15,996
through something called the
Joint Terrorism Task Force.

1729
01:15:15,996 --> 01:15:17,210
The Boston Police Department

1730
01:15:17,210 --> 01:15:21,270
actually has detectives
assigned to that JTTF unit,

1731
01:15:21,270 --> 01:15:23,140
who act as federal agents.

1732
01:15:23,140 --> 01:15:25,340
So one concern that we have is that

1733
01:15:25,340 --> 01:15:27,220
even if the city of Boston banned

1734
01:15:27,220 --> 01:15:29,995
face surveillance technology
for city employees,

1735
01:15:29,995 --> 01:15:32,860
certainly it would be
the case that the FBI

1736
01:15:32,860 --> 01:15:34,200
and other federal agencies

1737
01:15:34,200 --> 01:15:36,500
would be able to continue
to use this technology

1738
01:15:36,500 --> 01:15:40,150
and likely to share
information that comes from it

1739
01:15:40,150 --> 01:15:42,218
with the Boston Police Department
and other city agencies.

1740
01:15:42,218 --> 01:15:45,670
Unfortunately, there's
nothing we can do about that

1741
01:15:45,670 --> 01:15:46,839
at the city level,

1742
01:15:46,839 --> 01:15:48,690
which is why the ACLU

1743
01:15:48,690 --> 01:15:50,990
is also working with partners in congress

1744
01:15:50,990 --> 01:15:53,873
to try to address this level
at the federal level as well.

1745
01:15:56,210 --> 01:15:57,640
Thank you, that answered my question

1746
01:15:57,640 --> 01:16:00,898
and thank you for your work
on this very important issue.

1747
01:16:00,898 --> 01:16:04,570
Councilor, madam chair
that's all the questions

1748
01:16:04,570 --> 01:16:05,403
I have for now.

1749
01:16:06,270 --> 01:16:08,280
Thank you for very much, councilor Bok.

1750
01:16:08,280 --> 01:16:10,643
So, Mejia.

1751
01:16:12,357 --> 01:16:14,320
I'm so sorry, councilor Bok.

1752
01:16:14,320 --> 01:16:16,133
Thank you councilor Breadon.

1753
01:16:16,133 --> 01:16:19,230
Next is councilor Bok, I apologize.

1754
01:16:19,230 --> 01:16:21,959
Thank you, thanks councilor Edwards.

1755
01:16:21,959 --> 01:16:24,797
My question was actually
just, it's for the panelists.

1756
01:16:24,797 --> 01:16:27,253
Whoever wants to jump in,

1757
01:16:27,253 --> 01:16:29,590
the police commissioner
was making a distinction

1758
01:16:29,590 --> 01:16:32,770
between facial surveillance
and facial recognition systems

1759
01:16:32,770 --> 01:16:35,760
and what we might be banning or not.

1760
01:16:35,760 --> 01:16:37,412
And I'm just wondering,

1761
01:16:37,412 --> 01:16:39,140
I don't know the literature
in this world well enough

1762
01:16:39,140 --> 01:16:41,915
to know if that sort of a
strong existing distinction,

1763
01:16:41,915 --> 01:16:44,580
whether you think this piece
of legislation in front of us

1764
01:16:44,580 --> 01:16:45,640
bans one or the other,

1765
01:16:45,640 --> 01:16:48,598
whether you think we should
be making that distinction,

1766
01:16:48,598 --> 01:16:51,400
I'd just be curious for anybody
to weigh in on that front.

1767
01:16:51,400 --> 01:16:55,020
Got it, so when we hear the
term facial recognition,

1768
01:16:55,020 --> 01:16:58,370
oftentimes what it
means it's not so clear.

1769
01:16:58,370 --> 01:17:00,600
And so with the way the
current bill is written,

1770
01:17:00,600 --> 01:17:03,350
it actually covers a wide range

1771
01:17:03,350 --> 01:17:06,895
of different kinds of facial
recognition technologies.

1772
01:17:06,895 --> 01:17:09,600
And I say technologies plural

1773
01:17:09,600 --> 01:17:12,280
to emphasize we're talking
about different things.

1774
01:17:12,280 --> 01:17:15,280
So for example, you have face recognition,

1775
01:17:15,280 --> 01:17:18,210
which is about identifying
a unique individual.

1776
01:17:18,210 --> 01:17:20,720
So when we're talking
about face surveillance,

1777
01:17:20,720 --> 01:17:22,210
that is the issue.

1778
01:17:22,210 --> 01:17:25,140
But you can also have facial analysis,

1779
01:17:25,140 --> 01:17:27,050
that's guessing somebody's gender

1780
01:17:27,050 --> 01:17:29,270
or somebodies age or other systems

1781
01:17:29,270 --> 01:17:32,900
that might try to infer your
sexuality or your religion.

1782
01:17:32,900 --> 01:17:34,860
So you can still discriminate

1783
01:17:34,860 --> 01:17:38,380
even if it's not
technically face recognition

1784
01:17:38,380 --> 01:17:39,850
in the technical sense.

1785
01:17:39,850 --> 01:17:42,740
So, it's important to have
a really broad definition.

1786
01:17:42,740 --> 01:17:44,400
You also have face detection.

1787
01:17:44,400 --> 01:17:46,730
So if you think about weapon systems

1788
01:17:46,730 --> 01:17:49,260
where you're just detecting
the presence of a face

1789
01:17:49,260 --> 01:17:51,880
without saying a specific individual

1790
01:17:51,880 --> 01:17:53,690
that can still be problematic.

1791
01:17:53,690 --> 01:17:55,750
You also have companies like Face Suction

1792
01:17:55,750 --> 01:17:58,180
that say, we can infer a criminality

1793
01:17:58,180 --> 01:18:00,030
just by looking at your face,

1794
01:18:00,030 --> 01:18:04,480
your potential to be a pedophile,
a murderer, a terrorist.

1795
01:18:04,480 --> 01:18:07,010
And these are the kinds of systems

1796
01:18:07,010 --> 01:18:09,870
that companies are attempting
to sell law enforcement.

1797
01:18:09,870 --> 01:18:12,570
So it's crucial that any legislation

1798
01:18:12,570 --> 01:18:13,910
that is being written,

1799
01:18:13,910 --> 01:18:16,260
has a sufficiently broad definition

1800
01:18:16,260 --> 01:18:21,260
of a wide range of facial
recognition technologies, right?

1801
01:18:21,450 --> 01:18:24,673
With the plural so that
you don't get a loophole,

1802
01:18:26,281 --> 01:18:27,740
which says, oh, we're
doing face identification

1803
01:18:27,740 --> 01:18:31,100
or face verification, which
falls under recognition.

1804
01:18:31,100 --> 01:18:33,910
So everything we're doing
over here doesn't matter,

1805
01:18:33,910 --> 01:18:34,900
but it does.

1806
01:18:34,900 --> 01:18:36,650
So thank you so much for that question

1807
01:18:36,650 --> 01:18:38,923
because this is an
important clarification.

1808
01:18:42,090 --> 01:18:44,003
Great, thanks so much.

1809
01:18:44,003 --> 01:18:45,603
Was there anybody else who
wanted to comment on that front?

1810
01:18:46,440 --> 01:18:48,070
No, okay, great.

1811
01:18:48,070 --> 01:18:50,080
Thank you, that was really helpful Joy.

1812
01:18:50,080 --> 01:18:51,880
Madam chair, I'm mindful
of the public testimony,

1813
01:18:51,880 --> 01:18:53,253
so that'll be it for me.

1814
01:18:54,699 --> 01:18:55,570
Thank you very much councilor Bok,

1815
01:18:55,570 --> 01:18:56,683
councilor Mejia.

1816
01:18:58,498 --> 01:19:00,942
Thank you again to the panelists

1817
01:19:00,942 --> 01:19:04,480
for educating us beforehand

1818
01:19:04,480 --> 01:19:07,897
and always sharing all of
this amazing information

1819
01:19:07,897 --> 01:19:11,664
and data and research that
informs our thinking every day.

1820
01:19:11,664 --> 01:19:14,220
I am just curious

1821
01:19:14,220 --> 01:19:18,720
and at the same time a little bit worried

1822
01:19:18,720 --> 01:19:23,280
about, just kind of like,

1823
01:19:23,280 --> 01:19:27,684
how we can prevent this
from ever passing ever.

1824
01:19:27,684 --> 01:19:30,720
Because it seems to me that

1825
01:19:30,720 --> 01:19:33,460
the way it's been positioned
is that it's the right now,

1826
01:19:33,460 --> 01:19:37,630
because it's not accurate,

1827
01:19:37,630 --> 01:19:39,520
but I'm just curious what happened

1828
01:19:39,520 --> 01:19:44,520
if you've seen other cities
or just even around the world

1829
01:19:44,990 --> 01:19:46,400
or any other incidences

1830
01:19:46,400 --> 01:19:51,083
where this has kind of slipped
in the radar and has passed.

1831
01:19:53,254 --> 01:19:54,930
I don't know if I'm making
any sense here but...

1832
01:19:54,930 --> 01:19:58,440
Basically the bottom line is
what I'm trying to understand

1833
01:19:58,440 --> 01:20:00,780
is that here we are standing firm

1834
01:20:00,780 --> 01:20:03,560
and banning facial recognition,

1835
01:20:03,560 --> 01:20:06,881
from what I understand at this point,

1836
01:20:06,881 --> 01:20:10,780
our commissioner is in agreement,

1837
01:20:10,780 --> 01:20:13,910
because of the issue of accuracy, right?

1838
01:20:13,910 --> 01:20:16,130
How can we get ahead of this situation

1839
01:20:16,130 --> 01:20:20,970
in a way that we can right this ordinance

1840
01:20:20,970 --> 01:20:25,578
to ensure that regardless of
whether or not it is accurate,

1841
01:20:25,578 --> 01:20:26,960
that we can still protect our residents.

1842
01:20:26,960 --> 01:20:28,670
Do you get what I'm trying to say?

1843
01:20:28,670 --> 01:20:31,155
I do councilor Mejia
and thank you for that.

1844
01:20:31,155 --> 01:20:33,540
I can address that quickly.

1845
01:20:33,540 --> 01:20:37,711
The council can't bind
future city councils, right?

1846
01:20:37,711 --> 01:20:40,300
So I agree with you.

1847
01:20:40,300 --> 01:20:42,770
I think that this technology is dangerous,

1848
01:20:42,770 --> 01:20:44,400
whether it works or it doesn't.

1849
01:20:44,400 --> 01:20:46,530
And I think that's why the city of Boston

1850
01:20:46,530 --> 01:20:50,090
ought to take the step to
ban its use in government.

1851
01:20:50,090 --> 01:20:52,090
I can promise you that as advocates,

1852
01:20:52,090 --> 01:20:53,900
we will show up to ensure

1853
01:20:53,900 --> 01:20:56,677
that these protections
persist in the city of Boston,

1854
01:20:56,677 --> 01:20:59,090
as long as I'm alive. [Kade laughs]

1855
01:20:59,090 --> 01:21:02,790
And I think that's true of many
of my friends and colleagues

1856
01:21:02,790 --> 01:21:04,797
in the advocacy space.

1857
01:21:04,797 --> 01:21:07,430
But some cities, some states

1858
01:21:07,430 --> 01:21:08,650
have considered approaches of

1859
01:21:08,650 --> 01:21:10,400
for example passing a moratorium

1860
01:21:10,400 --> 01:21:12,870
that expires after a few years,

1861
01:21:12,870 --> 01:21:14,790
we did not choose that route here,

1862
01:21:14,790 --> 01:21:17,180
in fact because of our concerns

1863
01:21:17,180 --> 01:21:19,236
that I think are identical to yours.

1864
01:21:19,236 --> 01:21:22,690
It's our view that we should
never wanna live in a society

1865
01:21:22,690 --> 01:21:24,360
where the government can track us

1866
01:21:25,242 --> 01:21:26,815
through these surveillance cameras

1867
01:21:26,815 --> 01:21:29,490
by our face wherever we go
or automatically get alerts,

1868
01:21:29,490 --> 01:21:31,310
just because I happened
to walk past the camera

1869
01:21:31,310 --> 01:21:32,200
in a certain neighborhood.

1870
01:21:32,200 --> 01:21:33,480
That's a kind of surveillance

1871
01:21:33,480 --> 01:21:36,180
that should never exist in a free society.

1872
01:21:36,180 --> 01:21:38,630
So we agree that it should
be permanently banned.

1873
01:21:39,630 --> 01:21:40,463
Thank you for that.

1874
01:21:40,463 --> 01:21:43,710
And then the other
question that I have is,

1875
01:21:43,710 --> 01:21:45,797
I know that, where the city council

1876
01:21:45,797 --> 01:21:47,960
and all of the jurisdiction is all things

1877
01:21:47,960 --> 01:21:49,570
that deal with the city,

1878
01:21:49,570 --> 01:21:54,490
but I'm just wondering
what if any examples

1879
01:21:54,490 --> 01:21:55,540
have you heard of other,

1880
01:21:55,540 --> 01:21:57,730
like maybe within the private sector

1881
01:21:57,730 --> 01:22:02,030
that are utilizing or considering
to utilize this as a form?

1882
01:22:02,030 --> 01:22:04,600
Is there anything, any
traction or anything

1883
01:22:04,600 --> 01:22:05,433
that we need to be mindful of?

1884
01:22:05,433 --> 01:22:07,910
Happening outside of city
government, if you will.

1885
01:22:10,580 --> 01:22:11,560
Joy, do you wanna speak

1886
01:22:11,560 --> 01:22:14,300
to some of the commercial applications?

1887
01:22:14,300 --> 01:22:17,060
Sure, I'm so glad you're
asking this question

1888
01:22:17,060 --> 01:22:19,030
because facial recognition technologies

1889
01:22:19,030 --> 01:22:22,990
broadly speaking are not
just in the government realm.

1890
01:22:22,990 --> 01:22:27,010
So right now, especially
with the COVID pandemic,

1891
01:22:27,010 --> 01:22:30,290
you're starting to see
more people make proposals

1892
01:22:30,290 --> 01:22:33,060
of using facial recognition
technologies in different ways.

1893
01:22:33,060 --> 01:22:35,390
Some that I've seen start to surface are,

1894
01:22:35,390 --> 01:22:39,770
can we use facial recognition
for contactless payments?

1895
01:22:39,770 --> 01:22:42,895
So your face becomes what you pay with.

1896
01:22:42,895 --> 01:22:45,890
You also have the case

1897
01:22:45,890 --> 01:22:48,900
of using facial analysis in employment.

1898
01:22:48,900 --> 01:22:50,400
So there's a company HireVue

1899
01:22:50,400 --> 01:22:53,630
that says we will analyze
your facial movements

1900
01:22:53,630 --> 01:22:56,920
and use that to inform hiring decisions.

1901
01:22:56,920 --> 01:23:00,380
And guess what we train on
the current top performers.

1902
01:23:00,380 --> 01:23:03,930
So the biases that are already
there can be propagated

1903
01:23:03,930 --> 01:23:06,380
and you actually might
purchase that technology

1904
01:23:06,380 --> 01:23:09,650
thinking you're trying to remove bias.

1905
01:23:09,650 --> 01:23:12,750
And so there are many ways
in which these technologies

1906
01:23:12,750 --> 01:23:16,700
might be presented with good intent,

1907
01:23:16,700 --> 01:23:18,840
but when you look at the ways in which

1908
01:23:18,840 --> 01:23:21,470
it actually manifests, there are harms

1909
01:23:21,470 --> 01:23:24,400
and oftentimes harms that
disproportionately fall

1910
01:23:24,400 --> 01:23:25,960
on a marginalized group.

1911
01:23:25,960 --> 01:23:27,260
Even in the healthcare system.

1912
01:23:27,260 --> 01:23:29,530
I was reading research earlier

1913
01:23:29,530 --> 01:23:31,110
that was talking about ableism

1914
01:23:31,110 --> 01:23:33,150
when it comes to using some kinds of

1915
01:23:33,150 --> 01:23:35,080
facial analysis systems

1916
01:23:35,080 --> 01:23:37,190
within the healthcare context,

1917
01:23:37,190 --> 01:23:38,800
where it's not working as well

1918
01:23:38,800 --> 01:23:40,900
for older adults with dementia.

1919
01:23:40,900 --> 01:23:43,020
So the promises of these technologies

1920
01:23:43,020 --> 01:23:45,590
really have to be backed
up with the claims.

1921
01:23:45,590 --> 01:23:49,680
And I think the council can
actually go further by saying,

1922
01:23:49,680 --> 01:23:51,420
we're not only just talking about

1923
01:23:51,420 --> 01:23:54,240
government use of facial
recognition technologies,

1924
01:23:54,240 --> 01:23:55,770
but if these technologies

1925
01:23:55,770 --> 01:23:58,360
impact someone's life in
a material way, right?

1926
01:23:58,360 --> 01:24:00,820
So we're talking about
economic opportunity.

1927
01:24:00,820 --> 01:24:02,500
We're talking about healthcare,

1928
01:24:02,500 --> 01:24:04,400
that there needs to be oversight

1929
01:24:04,400 --> 01:24:08,170
or clear restrictions depending
on the type of application,

1930
01:24:08,170 --> 01:24:10,870
but the precautionary
principle press pause,

1931
01:24:10,870 --> 01:24:14,510
make sense when this technology
is nowhere near there.

1932
01:24:14,510 --> 01:24:15,343
Thank you.

1933
01:24:15,343 --> 01:24:17,016
For that and I'm not
sure if I got the Jabil,

1934
01:24:17,016 --> 01:24:18,557
but I do have one more,

1935
01:24:18,557 --> 01:24:20,433
You got the, you got the...

1936
01:24:20,433 --> 01:24:21,954
[crosstalk]

1937
01:24:21,954 --> 01:24:25,553
But I'll wait.

1938
01:24:25,553 --> 01:24:29,563
Sorry, thank you so much
to you both, thank you.

1939
01:24:32,100 --> 01:24:33,150
Councilor Flaherty.

1940
01:24:39,417 --> 01:24:40,620
Okay, councilor Campbell said

1941
01:24:40,620 --> 01:24:43,693
she was having some spotty
issues with her internet.

1942
01:24:45,023 --> 01:24:45,856
So if she's not here,

1943
01:24:45,856 --> 01:24:49,310
I'm gonna go ahead and
go to councilor O'Malley

1944
01:24:49,310 --> 01:24:51,920
who I'm not sure he's still on.

1945
01:24:51,920 --> 01:24:53,740
I'm here madam chair.

1946
01:24:53,740 --> 01:24:55,090
There you are, councilor O'Malley.

1947
01:24:55,090 --> 01:24:55,923
Thank you.

1948
01:24:55,923 --> 01:24:57,855
Yeah, I will be brief because
I think it's important

1949
01:24:57,855 --> 01:24:59,083
to get to the public testimony,

1950
01:24:59,083 --> 01:25:00,010
but it seems to me that this sounds

1951
01:25:00,010 --> 01:25:03,820
like a very productive
government operations hearing.

1952
01:25:03,820 --> 01:25:06,340
It sounds to me that obviously

1953
01:25:06,340 --> 01:25:08,610
there's a lot of support across the board

1954
01:25:08,610 --> 01:25:10,640
and it looks as though the commissioners

1955
01:25:10,640 --> 01:25:12,470
asking for one more working session,

1956
01:25:12,470 --> 01:25:13,440
which seems to make sense

1957
01:25:13,440 --> 01:25:15,360
and his comments were very positive.

1958
01:25:15,360 --> 01:25:17,218
So I think this is a good thing.

1959
01:25:17,218 --> 01:25:18,100
So thank you to the advocates.

1960
01:25:18,100 --> 01:25:19,480
Thank you to my colleagues,

1961
01:25:19,480 --> 01:25:20,750
particularly the lead sponsors

1962
01:25:20,750 --> 01:25:23,260
and the commissioner for his
participation this afternoon.

1963
01:25:23,260 --> 01:25:24,930
And thank you for all the folks

1964
01:25:24,930 --> 01:25:26,250
whom we will hear from shortly.

1965
01:25:26,250 --> 01:25:27,940
That's all I've got.

1966
01:25:27,940 --> 01:25:30,133
Thank you, councilor Essaibi George.

1967
01:25:31,160 --> 01:25:32,403
Thank you madam chair.

1968
01:25:32,403 --> 01:25:33,554
And I do apologize for earlier,

1969
01:25:33,554 --> 01:25:38,554
taking a call and unmuting myself somehow.

1970
01:25:39,460 --> 01:25:40,293
I apologize for that.

1971
01:25:40,293 --> 01:25:42,410
I hope I didn't say anything inappropriate

1972
01:25:42,410 --> 01:25:44,304
or share any certain secrets.

1973
01:25:44,304 --> 01:25:46,507
Thank you to the advocates

1974
01:25:46,507 --> 01:25:48,610
and to the commissioner
for being here today.

1975
01:25:48,610 --> 01:25:50,655
And thank you to the advocates

1976
01:25:50,655 --> 01:25:53,550
who have met with me over
the last a few months ago,

1977
01:25:53,550 --> 01:25:55,555
over a period of a few months,

1978
01:25:55,555 --> 01:25:58,430
just really learned a lot
through our times together,

1979
01:25:58,430 --> 01:26:01,540
especially from the younger folks.

1980
01:26:01,540 --> 01:26:02,973
I am interested in some,

1981
01:26:04,203 --> 01:26:05,036
if there is any information

1982
01:26:05,036 --> 01:26:06,870
that the commissioner
is no longer with us.

1983
01:26:06,870 --> 01:26:10,804
So perhaps I'll just forward
this question to him, myself.

1984
01:26:10,804 --> 01:26:15,804
But my question is around
the FBI's evidence standards

1985
01:26:17,282 --> 01:26:19,640
around facial recognition technology.

1986
01:26:19,640 --> 01:26:21,840
I wonder if they've released that.

1987
01:26:21,840 --> 01:26:25,581
And then through the chair to the makers,

1988
01:26:25,581 --> 01:26:30,267
we had some questions
around section B and two,

1989
01:26:32,381 --> 01:26:33,837
and perhaps we can discuss
this in the working sessional,

1990
01:26:35,184 --> 01:26:36,804
or I'll send this to you ahead of time,

1991
01:26:36,804 --> 01:26:41,804
but it does talk about
section B part two reads,

1992
01:26:42,377 --> 01:26:45,790
"Nothing in B or one shall prohibit Boston

1993
01:26:46,822 --> 01:26:47,970
or any Boston official
from using evidence related

1994
01:26:47,970 --> 01:26:50,460
to the investigation of a specific crime

1995
01:26:50,460 --> 01:26:51,670
that may have been generated

1996
01:26:51,670 --> 01:26:53,980
from face surveillance systems."

1997
01:26:53,980 --> 01:26:56,170
So we're just wondering
what types of evidence

1998
01:26:56,170 --> 01:26:57,750
are we allowing from here

1999
01:26:57,750 --> 01:27:00,560
and what situations are
we trying to accommodate.

2000
01:27:00,560 --> 01:27:04,450
Just the specific question
that we came up with

2001
01:27:04,450 --> 01:27:06,190
as an office, looking through that.

2002
01:27:06,190 --> 01:27:08,680
So I'll share that with the
makers of this ordinance

2003
01:27:08,680 --> 01:27:10,270
to understand that a little bit better.

2004
01:27:10,270 --> 01:27:12,120
But if any of the panels have information

2005
01:27:12,120 --> 01:27:15,580
on the FBI standards regarding,

2006
01:27:15,580 --> 01:27:17,760
if they've shared their standards.

2007
01:27:17,760 --> 01:27:21,461
That is my question for this time.

2008
01:27:21,461 --> 01:27:22,599
Thank you ma'am chair.

2009
01:27:22,599 --> 01:27:23,603
I can answer that quickly

2010
01:27:23,603 --> 01:27:24,540
and then Joy may also have an answer.

2011
01:27:24,540 --> 01:27:27,010
But one of the issues here

2012
01:27:27,010 --> 01:27:29,700
is that police departments
across the country

2013
01:27:29,700 --> 01:27:32,410
have been using facial
recognition to identify people

2014
01:27:32,410 --> 01:27:35,700
in criminal investigations
for decades now actually,

2015
01:27:35,700 --> 01:27:38,160
and then not disclosing that information

2016
01:27:38,160 --> 01:27:41,350
to criminal defendants, which
is a due process violation.

2017
01:27:41,350 --> 01:27:43,470
And it's a serious problem

2018
01:27:43,470 --> 01:27:46,840
in terms of the integrity of
our criminal justice process

2019
01:27:46,840 --> 01:27:50,070
in the courts and defendant's
rights to a fair trial.

2020
01:27:50,070 --> 01:27:53,440
So the FBI standards
that you're referencing

2021
01:27:53,440 --> 01:27:56,240
one of the reasons, at least
as far as we understand it

2022
01:27:56,240 --> 01:27:58,280
and I don't work for
the police department,

2023
01:27:58,280 --> 01:28:01,354
but one of the reasons as
far as we understand it,

2024
01:28:01,354 --> 01:28:03,680
that police departments have
not been disclosing information

2025
01:28:03,680 --> 01:28:06,130
about these searches
to criminal defendants,

2026
01:28:06,130 --> 01:28:10,090
is that there is no nationally
agreed upon forensic standard

2027
01:28:10,090 --> 01:28:12,980
for the use of facial
recognition technology

2028
01:28:12,980 --> 01:28:14,570
in criminal investigations.

2029
01:28:14,570 --> 01:28:17,540
And so my understanding is,

2030
01:28:17,540 --> 01:28:19,520
police departments and prosecutors fear

2031
01:28:19,520 --> 01:28:21,980
that if they were to disclose to courts

2032
01:28:21,980 --> 01:28:22,950
and criminal defendants,

2033
01:28:22,950 --> 01:28:25,380
that this technology was
used to identify people

2034
01:28:25,380 --> 01:28:27,040
in specific investigations,

2035
01:28:27,040 --> 01:28:29,878
that those cases would basically
get thrown out of court

2036
01:28:29,878 --> 01:28:34,878
because the people who
performed the analysis

2037
01:28:35,730 --> 01:28:37,760
would not really be able to testify

2038
01:28:37,760 --> 01:28:41,170
to their training under any
agreed upon national standard

2039
01:28:41,170 --> 01:28:43,390
for evaluating facial recognition results

2040
01:28:43,390 --> 01:28:45,980
or using the technology more generally.

2041
01:28:45,980 --> 01:28:48,450
I can't answer your other
question about that exemption.

2042
01:28:48,450 --> 01:28:51,576
It is meant to address
basically wanted posters,

2043
01:28:51,576 --> 01:28:55,400
because for example, if the
FBI runs facial recognition

2044
01:28:55,400 --> 01:28:57,600
on an image of a bank robbery suspect

2045
01:28:57,600 --> 01:28:59,190
and then produces a wanted poster

2046
01:28:59,190 --> 01:29:00,590
that has that person's name on it

2047
01:29:00,590 --> 01:29:02,779
and shares with the
Boston Police Department,

2048
01:29:02,779 --> 01:29:06,800
obviously the BPD is not going
to be in a position to ask

2049
01:29:06,800 --> 01:29:09,060
every single police
department in the country,

2050
01:29:09,060 --> 01:29:11,042
where did you get the name
attached to this picture?

2051
01:29:11,042 --> 01:29:14,640
And so that's what that
exemption is meant to address.

2052
01:29:14,640 --> 01:29:15,830
There have been some concerns

2053
01:29:15,830 --> 01:29:17,360
from some of our allied organizations

2054
01:29:17,360 --> 01:29:18,960
that we need to tighten that up

2055
01:29:18,960 --> 01:29:20,870
with a little more extra language

2056
01:29:20,870 --> 01:29:23,680
to make clear that that
does not allow the BPD

2057
01:29:23,680 --> 01:29:26,860
to use the RMV system
for facial recognition.

2058
01:29:26,860 --> 01:29:28,980
And we will be suggesting some language

2059
01:29:28,980 --> 01:29:30,580
to the committee to that effect.

2060
01:29:32,480 --> 01:29:34,280
And just to echo a little bit

2061
01:29:34,280 --> 01:29:37,210
of what Kade is sharing here,

2062
01:29:37,210 --> 01:29:40,560
I do wanna point out that in April, 2019,

2063
01:29:40,560 --> 01:29:44,220
what the example of the
student being misidentified

2064
01:29:44,220 --> 01:29:49,100
as a terrorist suspect,
you had that photo shared.

2065
01:29:49,100 --> 01:29:51,270
And even though it was incorrect,

2066
01:29:51,270 --> 01:29:54,110
you have the ramifications of what happens

2067
01:29:54,110 --> 01:29:57,000
because of the presumption of guilt.

2068
01:29:57,000 --> 01:29:59,300
And so this is why I especially believe

2069
01:29:59,300 --> 01:30:02,260
we should also be talking about systems

2070
01:30:02,260 --> 01:30:05,020
that try to infer criminality

2071
01:30:05,020 --> 01:30:08,800
using AI systems in any kind of way.

2072
01:30:08,800 --> 01:30:11,210
Because again, the presumption of guilt

2073
01:30:11,210 --> 01:30:13,440
then adds to the confirmation bias

2074
01:30:13,440 --> 01:30:16,193
of getting something from a machine.

2075
01:30:17,740 --> 01:30:19,530
So, I think in the working session,

2076
01:30:19,530 --> 01:30:23,310
will there be improved language

2077
01:30:23,310 --> 01:30:25,033
around tightening that piece up.

2078
01:30:26,880 --> 01:30:28,903
Yes, we have some suggestions.

2079
01:30:28,903 --> 01:30:30,890
Yeah, thank you, thank you ma'am chir.

2080
01:30:30,890 --> 01:30:32,633
You're welcome, councilor Flynn.

2081
01:30:34,140 --> 01:30:36,627
Wasn't sure if you had any questions.

2082
01:30:38,842 --> 01:30:41,370
Thank you, thank you councilor Edwards.

2083
01:30:41,370 --> 01:30:43,930
I know I had a conversation awhile back

2084
01:30:43,930 --> 01:30:48,080
with Erik Berg from the teacher's
union about the subject,

2085
01:30:48,080 --> 01:30:49,060
and I learned a lot

2086
01:30:49,060 --> 01:30:52,483
and I learned a lot from
listening to the advocates

2087
01:30:52,483 --> 01:30:54,093
this afternoon.

2088
01:30:56,610 --> 01:31:01,610
My question is, I know Joy
covered it a little bit,

2089
01:31:01,970 --> 01:31:05,990
but besides for criminal investigations,

2090
01:31:05,990 --> 01:31:09,080
what are the reasons that the government

2091
01:31:09,080 --> 01:31:12,563
would want surveillance cameras.

2092
01:31:15,860 --> 01:31:17,710
Surveillance, cameras, councilor Flynn,

2093
01:31:17,710 --> 01:31:20,920
or facial recognition
technology specifically?

2094
01:31:20,920 --> 01:31:21,753
Both.

2095
01:31:23,960 --> 01:31:27,600
Well, my understanding
is government agencies,

2096
01:31:27,600 --> 01:31:29,560
including the Boston
Transportation Department

2097
01:31:29,560 --> 01:31:33,414
use surveillance cameras for
things like traffic analysis,

2098
01:31:33,414 --> 01:31:36,500
accident reconstruction.

2099
01:31:36,500 --> 01:31:40,840
So there are non-criminal
uses for surveillance cameras.

2100
01:31:40,840 --> 01:31:45,840
I'm not aware of any
non-criminal uses in government,

2101
01:31:46,310 --> 01:31:49,770
at least for facial facial surveillance,

2102
01:31:49,770 --> 01:31:51,330
except in the,

2103
01:31:51,330 --> 01:31:53,700
I would say so-called intelligence realm.

2104
01:31:53,700 --> 01:31:56,790
So that would mean not a
criminal investigation,

2105
01:31:56,790 --> 01:31:58,540
but rather an intelligence investigation,

2106
01:31:58,540 --> 01:32:00,380
for example of an activist

2107
01:32:00,380 --> 01:32:04,203
or an activist group or a
protest or something like that.

2108
01:32:05,190 --> 01:32:06,560
Okay.

2109
01:32:06,560 --> 01:32:10,980
Can besides government,

2110
01:32:10,980 --> 01:32:15,250
what are the purposes
of facial recognition

2111
01:32:15,250 --> 01:32:18,260
that businesses would want to know?

2112
01:32:18,260 --> 01:32:21,190
Then they might use it in a store,

2113
01:32:21,190 --> 01:32:23,354
but what are some of the other reasons

2114
01:32:23,354 --> 01:32:27,400
private sector might use them.

2115
01:32:27,400 --> 01:32:30,430
Sure, so speaking to private sector uses

2116
01:32:30,430 --> 01:32:32,130
of facial recognition,

2117
01:32:32,130 --> 01:32:34,340
oftentimes you see it
being used for security

2118
01:32:34,340 --> 01:32:38,520
or accessing securing access
to a particular place.

2119
01:32:38,520 --> 01:32:41,410
So only a particular
employees can come in.

2120
01:32:41,410 --> 01:32:43,310
Something that's more alarming

2121
01:32:43,310 --> 01:32:45,450
that we're seeing with commercial use,

2122
01:32:45,450 --> 01:32:47,330
is the use in housing.

2123
01:32:47,330 --> 01:32:50,010
And so we have a case even in Brooklyn,

2124
01:32:50,010 --> 01:32:53,310
where you had tenants
saying to the landlord,

2125
01:32:53,310 --> 01:32:57,090
we don't want to enter
our homes with our face,

2126
01:32:57,090 --> 01:32:59,720
don't install facial
recognition technology.

2127
01:32:59,720 --> 01:33:01,090
They actually won that case,

2128
01:33:01,090 --> 01:33:04,080
but not every group is
going to be so successful.

2129
01:33:04,080 --> 01:33:06,060
So you can be in a situation

2130
01:33:06,060 --> 01:33:08,800
where your face becomes the key.

2131
01:33:08,800 --> 01:33:11,930
But when your face is the key
and it gets stolen or hacked,

2132
01:33:11,930 --> 01:33:14,110
you can't just replace it so easily.

2133
01:33:14,110 --> 01:33:16,640
You might need some plastic surgery.

2134
01:33:16,640 --> 01:33:20,010
So we see facial recognition technologies

2135
01:33:20,010 --> 01:33:23,170
being used for access in certain ways.

2136
01:33:23,170 --> 01:33:25,420
And again, the dangerous use of trying

2137
01:33:25,420 --> 01:33:27,630
to predict something about somebody.

2138
01:33:27,630 --> 01:33:29,820
Are you going to be a good employee?

2139
01:33:29,820 --> 01:33:32,510
You have companies like Amazon,

2140
01:33:32,510 --> 01:33:35,210
saying we can detect fear from your face.

2141
01:33:35,210 --> 01:33:39,160
And so thinking about how
that might be used as well.

2142
01:33:39,160 --> 01:33:40,670
The other thing we have to consider

2143
01:33:40,670 --> 01:33:44,177
when we're talking about commercial uses

2144
01:33:44,177 --> 01:33:45,570
of facial recognition technologies,

2145
01:33:45,570 --> 01:33:47,720
is oftentimes you'll have companies

2146
01:33:47,720 --> 01:33:51,110
have general purpose facial recognition.

2147
01:33:51,110 --> 01:33:53,720
So this then means other people can buy it

2148
01:33:53,720 --> 01:33:55,510
and use it in all kinds of ways.

2149
01:33:55,510 --> 01:33:57,670
So from your Snapchat filter

2150
01:33:57,670 --> 01:34:00,250
to putting it for lethal
autonomous weapons.

2151
01:34:00,250 --> 01:34:01,870
You have a major range

2152
01:34:01,870 --> 01:34:05,754
with what can happen with
these sorts of technologies.

2153
01:34:05,754 --> 01:34:08,933
Pardon me councilor.

2154
01:34:09,858 --> 01:34:10,730
I would just jump into also reiterate

2155
01:34:10,730 --> 01:34:13,510
that this ordinance only
applies to government conduct.

2156
01:34:13,510 --> 01:34:15,791
It would not restrict in any way,

2157
01:34:15,791 --> 01:34:19,893
any entity in the private sector
from using this technology.

2158
01:34:19,893 --> 01:34:23,360
But that said, some other uses,

2159
01:34:23,360 --> 01:34:26,251
I don't know if you've ever
seen the film "Minority Report,"

2160
01:34:26,251 --> 01:34:30,610
but in that film, Tom
Cruise enters them mall

2161
01:34:30,610 --> 01:34:33,707
and some technology says to him,

2162
01:34:33,707 --> 01:34:37,390
"Hello, sir, how did you
like the size small underwear

2163
01:34:37,390 --> 01:34:39,150
you bought last time?"

2164
01:34:39,150 --> 01:34:41,790
So that's actually now
becoming a reality as well,

2165
01:34:41,790 --> 01:34:45,634
that in the commercial space, at stores,

2166
01:34:45,634 --> 01:34:47,790
for marketing purposes,

2167
01:34:47,790 --> 01:34:49,410
we are likely going to see

2168
01:34:49,410 --> 01:34:52,450
if laws do not stop this from happening,

2169
01:34:52,450 --> 01:34:54,500
the application of facial surveillance

2170
01:34:54,500 --> 01:34:57,330
in a marketing and commercial context

2171
01:34:57,330 --> 01:34:59,653
to basically try to get
us to buy more stuff.

2172
01:35:00,977 --> 01:35:03,194
And to underscore that point,

2173
01:35:03,194 --> 01:35:04,812
you have a patent from Facebook,

2174
01:35:04,812 --> 01:35:06,780
which basically Facebook has
so many of our face prints.

2175
01:35:06,780 --> 01:35:09,730
We've been training
their systems for years.

2176
01:35:09,730 --> 01:35:13,080
The patent says, given that
we have this information,

2177
01:35:13,080 --> 01:35:17,070
we can provide you background details

2178
01:35:17,070 --> 01:35:20,300
about somebody entering your store,

2179
01:35:20,300 --> 01:35:22,910
and even give them a
trust worthiness score

2180
01:35:22,910 --> 01:35:25,540
to restrict access to certain products.

2181
01:35:25,540 --> 01:35:29,250
This is a patent that has
been filed by Facebook.

2182
01:35:29,250 --> 01:35:31,270
So it's certainly within the realm

2183
01:35:31,270 --> 01:35:34,200
of what companies are exploring to do.

2184
01:35:34,200 --> 01:35:35,550
And you already have companies

2185
01:35:35,550 --> 01:35:38,130
that use facial recognition technologies

2186
01:35:38,130 --> 01:35:39,560
to assess demographics.

2187
01:35:39,560 --> 01:35:42,860
So you have cameras that
can be put into shelves.

2188
01:35:42,860 --> 01:35:45,396
You have cameras that can
be put into mannequins.

2189
01:35:45,396 --> 01:35:48,040
So you already have this going on

2190
01:35:48,040 --> 01:35:49,700
and Tacoma in Washington,

2191
01:35:49,700 --> 01:35:52,120
they even implemented a system

2192
01:35:52,120 --> 01:35:55,150
where you had to be face checked

2193
01:35:55,150 --> 01:35:58,380
before you could walk
into a convenience store.

2194
01:35:58,380 --> 01:36:00,753
So this technology is already out there.

2195
01:36:01,940 --> 01:36:02,980
Well thank you.

2196
01:36:02,980 --> 01:36:04,512
I know my time is up.

2197
01:36:04,512 --> 01:36:07,360
I'm looking forward to
continuing the conversation

2198
01:36:07,360 --> 01:36:08,650
'cause I have a couple more questions,

2199
01:36:08,650 --> 01:36:10,940
but I'll ask them at another time.

2200
01:36:10,940 --> 01:36:13,210
But again, thank you to the advocates

2201
01:36:13,210 --> 01:36:14,700
and thank you to councilor Edwards.

2202
01:36:14,700 --> 01:36:16,730
Thank you.

2203
01:36:16,730 --> 01:36:19,610
So it's between me and public testimony.

2204
01:36:19,610 --> 01:36:22,699
So I'm gonna just put my
three questions out there

2205
01:36:22,699 --> 01:36:25,930
and then we're gonna go
right down the list of folks

2206
01:36:25,930 --> 01:36:27,670
who have signed up in RSVP.

2207
01:36:28,759 --> 01:36:31,200
Again to those folks who are gonna come

2208
01:36:32,393 --> 01:36:33,280
after you've testified,

2209
01:36:33,280 --> 01:36:35,320
we were maxed out in our limit of people

2210
01:36:35,320 --> 01:36:36,690
who could participate.

2211
01:36:36,690 --> 01:36:39,950
So if you're willing to
testify and then also sign out

2212
01:36:39,950 --> 01:36:41,250
and watch through YouTube

2213
01:36:41,250 --> 01:36:42,900
or watch you and other mechanisms

2214
01:36:42,900 --> 01:36:44,510
to allow somebody else to testify,

2215
01:36:44,510 --> 01:36:47,830
that would be very
helpful to this process.

2216
01:36:47,830 --> 01:36:51,150
I'm looking specifically
at the issue of enforcement

2217
01:36:51,150 --> 01:36:53,580
in this statute or in this ordinance.

2218
01:36:53,580 --> 01:36:56,930
And it says no evidence derived there from

2219
01:36:56,930 --> 01:36:59,770
maybe received in evidence in proceeding

2220
01:36:59,770 --> 01:37:03,830
or before any department or
officer agency regulatory body.

2221
01:37:03,830 --> 01:37:07,503
I want to be clear if the
police received this evidence,

2222
01:37:09,057 --> 01:37:11,832
could a prosecutor use it in court.

2223
01:37:11,832 --> 01:37:14,082
So -
That's my question.

2224
01:37:15,593 --> 01:37:17,070
So that's my issue.

2225
01:37:17,070 --> 01:37:19,720
There seems to be no
actual evidence prohibition

2226
01:37:19,720 --> 01:37:22,154
for use in court against somebody.

2227
01:37:22,154 --> 01:37:24,980
The other issue or concern I have

2228
01:37:24,980 --> 01:37:27,560
is a provision violations
of this ordinance

2229
01:37:27,560 --> 01:37:30,790
by a city employee, shall
result in consequences

2230
01:37:30,790 --> 01:37:35,790
that may include retraining,
suspension, termination,

2231
01:37:36,074 --> 01:37:38,300
but they're all subject to provisions

2232
01:37:38,300 --> 01:37:40,340
of collective bargaining agreements.

2233
01:37:40,340 --> 01:37:42,680
So all of that could be gone away

2234
01:37:42,680 --> 01:37:44,320
if their union hasn't agreed

2235
01:37:45,194 --> 01:37:47,992
to that being part of
the disciplinary steps

2236
01:37:47,992 --> 01:37:48,990
for that particular employee.

2237
01:37:48,990 --> 01:37:52,120
So to me that signals the patrolmen

2238
01:37:52,120 --> 01:37:54,952
and other unions of folks

2239
01:37:54,952 --> 01:37:58,700
who are part of need to need
to have this as part of their,

2240
01:37:58,700 --> 01:38:01,190
a violation of contract
or violation of standard,

2241
01:38:01,190 --> 01:38:03,530
I think maybe I'm wrong.

2242
01:38:03,530 --> 01:38:07,980
And then finally, Joy, your testimony

2243
01:38:07,980 --> 01:38:10,183
about the private sector
has really hit me.

2244
01:38:11,140 --> 01:38:12,710
Thank you so much.

2245
01:38:12,710 --> 01:38:14,370
I'm particularly concerned about this.

2246
01:38:14,370 --> 01:38:15,203
I'm a twin.

2247
01:38:16,590 --> 01:38:20,023
Facebook tags my sister in all
of my pictures automatically.

2248
01:38:21,661 --> 01:38:25,710
I mean I'm a twin, councilor
Essabi George has triplets.

2249
01:38:25,710 --> 01:38:28,418
So for those, we're called
multiples, you're all singletons,

2250
01:38:28,418 --> 01:38:29,860
you were born by yourself.

2251
01:38:29,860 --> 01:38:32,320
We share birth, multiples have you know,

2252
01:38:32,320 --> 01:38:36,097
and so naturally I'm concerned
about this technology.

2253
01:38:36,097 --> 01:38:38,940
Not that my sister is inclined
to do any criminal activity,

2254
01:38:38,940 --> 01:38:41,130
but she may go to a protest
or two, I don't know,

2255
01:38:41,130 --> 01:38:43,955
but either way, the point is,

2256
01:38:43,955 --> 01:38:48,610
I'm concerned about the private
actor and how they interact.

2257
01:38:48,610 --> 01:38:51,230
And I'm particularly concerned

2258
01:38:51,230 --> 01:38:53,720
is how far this will go down the line,

2259
01:38:53,720 --> 01:38:56,732
the chain supply chain, right?

2260
01:38:56,732 --> 01:38:58,920
'Cause we have $600 million in contracts

2261
01:38:58,920 --> 01:39:02,220
for all sorts of things
for the city of Boston.

2262
01:39:02,220 --> 01:39:05,170
If we have a contract
with a cleaning company

2263
01:39:05,170 --> 01:39:07,270
that requires the workers to sign in

2264
01:39:07,270 --> 01:39:09,010
with facial recognition, right?

2265
01:39:09,010 --> 01:39:12,683
So how far down the line
can we go with our money?

2266
01:39:13,920 --> 01:39:17,096
Now I understand time is of the essence.

2267
01:39:17,096 --> 01:39:18,276
And that might be a big,

2268
01:39:18,276 --> 01:39:19,410
big question that we can work
out in the working session.

2269
01:39:19,410 --> 01:39:22,490
I'm particularly concerned
about the courts.

2270
01:39:22,490 --> 01:39:26,874
So if you wanna just focus
on that one, thank you.

2271
01:39:26,874 --> 01:39:27,707
Thank you, councilor.

2272
01:39:27,707 --> 01:39:28,963
So just very quickly,

2273
01:39:31,100 --> 01:39:35,870
we are unclear on what the
city council's power is

2274
01:39:35,870 --> 01:39:38,574
to control the prosecutor's office.

2275
01:39:38,574 --> 01:39:42,530
I think we'll look more into that,

2276
01:39:42,530 --> 01:39:43,990
we'll look closely at that.

2277
01:39:43,990 --> 01:39:46,700
On the second question, I agree.

2278
01:39:46,700 --> 01:39:48,960
We need to look at the BPA agreement,

2279
01:39:48,960 --> 01:39:51,440
which I understand expires the summer.

2280
01:39:51,440 --> 01:39:55,960
And then finally on the
private sector concerns,

2281
01:39:55,960 --> 01:39:57,020
I share them.

2282
01:39:57,020 --> 01:40:00,990
Again, we wanna get this government ban

2283
01:40:00,990 --> 01:40:02,530
passed as quickly as possible.

2284
01:40:02,530 --> 01:40:04,680
The ACLU supports approaches like that,

2285
01:40:04,680 --> 01:40:07,210
that the state of Illinois has taken.

2286
01:40:07,210 --> 01:40:09,395
They passed the nation's strongest

2287
01:40:09,395 --> 01:40:10,950
consumer facing biometrics privacy law.

2288
01:40:10,950 --> 01:40:13,910
It's called the Biometric
Information Privacy Act,

2289
01:40:13,910 --> 01:40:14,920
BIPA.

2290
01:40:14,920 --> 01:40:17,650
BIPA essentially prevents
private companies,

2291
01:40:17,650 --> 01:40:18,680
any private companies,

2292
01:40:18,680 --> 01:40:20,610
from collecting your biometric data

2293
01:40:20,610 --> 01:40:22,380
without your opt-in consent.

2294
01:40:22,380 --> 01:40:24,240
And that's not, I clicked a button

2295
01:40:24,240 --> 01:40:26,250
when I was scrolling
through a terms of service,

2296
01:40:26,250 --> 01:40:28,640
it's you actually have
to sign a piece of paper

2297
01:40:28,640 --> 01:40:29,473
and give it to them.

2298
01:40:29,473 --> 01:40:32,174
So we need a law like that
right here in Massachusetts.

2299
01:40:32,174 --> 01:40:34,501
Thank you.

2300
01:40:34,501 --> 01:40:35,859
So at this point,

2301
01:40:35,859 --> 01:40:36,760
I'm gonna turn it over
to public testimony.

2302
01:40:36,760 --> 01:40:39,120
I have some folks who
have already committed

2303
01:40:39,120 --> 01:40:40,910
and asked to speak today.

2304
01:40:40,910 --> 01:40:41,900
I'm gonna go through them.

2305
01:40:41,900 --> 01:40:44,540
I'm going to, it's
already quarter to five.

2306
01:40:44,540 --> 01:40:48,610
I'm going to try and end this
hearing no later than six.

2307
01:40:48,610 --> 01:40:51,301
So that's an hour and 15 minutes

2308
01:40:51,301 --> 01:40:54,320
to move through public testimony.

2309
01:40:54,320 --> 01:40:55,320
And I'm gonna try,

2310
01:40:55,320 --> 01:40:57,110
I'm gonna have to keep
folks to two minutes

2311
01:40:57,110 --> 01:40:58,400
as I said before,

2312
01:40:58,400 --> 01:41:00,830
because there are a lot
of people signed up.

2313
01:41:00,830 --> 01:41:02,910
So, of the folks who've signed up,

2314
01:41:02,910 --> 01:41:04,530
I will go through that list.

2315
01:41:04,530 --> 01:41:07,322
Then I'm gonna invite
people to raise their hands

2316
01:41:07,322 --> 01:41:10,040
who may not have signed up directly,

2317
01:41:10,040 --> 01:41:11,920
who would also like to testify.

2318
01:41:11,920 --> 01:41:16,490
All right, so I have on the
list, Bonnie Tenneriello

2319
01:41:18,020 --> 01:41:19,620
from the National Lawyers Guild.

2320
01:41:22,513 --> 01:41:24,749
After her I have Callan Bignoli

2321
01:41:24,749 --> 01:41:27,710
from the Library Freedom
Project and Maty Cropley.

2322
01:41:27,710 --> 01:41:29,460
Those are the three folks lined up.

2323
01:41:32,210 --> 01:41:33,043
Let's see.

2324
01:41:34,070 --> 01:41:36,383
Kaitlin, is there a Bonnie?

2325
01:41:42,569 --> 01:41:44,220
Okay well, I see Callan
right now ready to go.

2326
01:41:44,220 --> 01:41:46,540
So I'm gonna go ahead
and start with Callan

2327
01:41:46,540 --> 01:41:49,223
if you wanna start and
your two minutes has begun.

2328
01:41:51,680 --> 01:41:54,572
Sure, hi, I'm Callan Bignoli,

2329
01:41:54,572 --> 01:41:56,040
I am a resident of West Roxbury

2330
01:41:56,040 --> 01:41:58,180
and a librarian in the Boston area.

2331
01:41:58,180 --> 01:42:00,469
And I am speaking on behalf

2332
01:42:00,469 --> 01:42:02,090
of the Library Freedom Project Today.

2333
01:42:02,090 --> 01:42:03,129
So thank you to the chair

2334
01:42:03,129 --> 01:42:04,371
and thank you to all of city council

2335
01:42:04,371 --> 01:42:05,270
for the chance to testify today

2336
01:42:05,270 --> 01:42:07,820
in this important piece of legislation.

2337
01:42:07,820 --> 01:42:11,600
So, the Library Freedom Project
is a library advocacy group

2338
01:42:11,600 --> 01:42:14,000
that trains library workers to advocate

2339
01:42:14,000 --> 01:42:15,680
and educate their library community

2340
01:42:15,680 --> 01:42:17,710
about privacy and surveillance.

2341
01:42:17,710 --> 01:42:20,760
We include dozens of library
workers from the U.S.,

2342
01:42:20,760 --> 01:42:21,800
Canada and Mexico,

2343
01:42:21,800 --> 01:42:24,248
including eight librarians
from Massachusetts.

2344
01:42:24,248 --> 01:42:26,610
These library workers
educate their colleagues

2345
01:42:26,610 --> 01:42:28,330
and library users about surveillance

2346
01:42:28,330 --> 01:42:31,810
by creating library programs,
union initiatives, workshops,

2347
01:42:31,810 --> 01:42:34,766
and other resources inform
and agitate for change.

2348
01:42:34,766 --> 01:42:37,150
And facial recognition technology

2349
01:42:37,150 --> 01:42:40,490
represents a class of
technology that is antithetical

2350
01:42:40,490 --> 01:42:41,960
to the values of privacy

2351
01:42:41,960 --> 01:42:44,533
and confidentiality of library workers.

2352
01:42:45,490 --> 01:42:47,890
As library staff, we understand
that part of our work

2353
01:42:47,890 --> 01:42:50,560
is to represent these
values and the services

2354
01:42:50,560 --> 01:42:53,560
and resources we provide
to our library community

2355
01:42:53,560 --> 01:42:57,167
in order to reduce the harm of
state and corporate scrutiny.

2356
01:42:57,167 --> 01:42:59,110
As we understand this,

2357
01:42:59,110 --> 01:43:01,933
we can see the social
and economic imperatives

2358
01:43:01,933 --> 01:43:04,530
that privilege some and marginalize others

2359
01:43:04,530 --> 01:43:06,780
that are encoded into
many computer systems

2360
01:43:06,780 --> 01:43:08,190
and applications.

2361
01:43:08,190 --> 01:43:09,980
This is a result of the structure

2362
01:43:09,980 --> 01:43:11,360
of our technology industry,

2363
01:43:11,360 --> 01:43:14,110
which prioritizes the
interests of management,

2364
01:43:14,110 --> 01:43:16,220
venture capitalists and stockholders,

2365
01:43:16,220 --> 01:43:18,129
who are mostly white men.

2366
01:43:18,129 --> 01:43:20,250
The racial and gender biases

2367
01:43:20,250 --> 01:43:22,720
inherent in face surveillance technology

2368
01:43:22,720 --> 01:43:24,500
are indicative of those values

2369
01:43:24,500 --> 01:43:28,210
and they describe how moneyed
interests seek to shape

2370
01:43:28,210 --> 01:43:31,020
or reinforce racist and gender depressions

2371
01:43:31,020 --> 01:43:32,610
by creating computer systems

2372
01:43:32,610 --> 01:43:34,870
that extend the reach of profiling

2373
01:43:34,870 --> 01:43:37,060
through the exercise of capital.

2374
01:43:37,060 --> 01:43:40,471
Democratic direct worker
and community control

2375
01:43:40,471 --> 01:43:41,490
over the development acquisition

2376
01:43:41,490 --> 01:43:44,610
and practices of surveillance
and surveillance technology,

2377
01:43:44,610 --> 01:43:46,840
is an urgent priority to protect safety

2378
01:43:46,840 --> 01:43:49,690
and privacy and our
neighborhoods and schools.

2379
01:43:49,690 --> 01:43:51,220
So the Library Freedom Project

2380
01:43:51,220 --> 01:43:53,540
supports this urgently necessary ordinance

2381
01:43:53,540 --> 01:43:56,210
to ban facial recognition
technology in Boston

2382
01:43:56,210 --> 01:43:57,980
for the safety and privacy

2383
01:43:57,980 --> 01:44:01,040
of those who were working in
the city and who live here.

2384
01:44:01,040 --> 01:44:04,560
we urge the council to rest
control over surveillance -

2385
01:44:04,560 --> 01:44:06,257
Oh, two minutes is up.
Oops!

2386
01:44:06,257 --> 01:44:09,230
Two minutes is up, so
If you wanna summarize.

2387
01:44:09,230 --> 01:44:11,169
I have one, one more sentence.

2388
01:44:11,169 --> 01:44:15,060
We can not allow Boston
to adopt authoritarian,

2389
01:44:15,060 --> 01:44:18,930
unregulated and bias surveillance
technology, thank you.

2390
01:44:18,930 --> 01:44:21,210
Thank you very much, Bonnie,

2391
01:44:21,210 --> 01:44:23,240
I don't know if Bonnie's available,

2392
01:44:23,240 --> 01:44:26,900
if not I see Maty is available.

2393
01:44:26,900 --> 01:44:29,650
So I'm gonna go ahead and
start your two minutes, Maty.

2394
01:44:30,640 --> 01:44:31,850
Thank you very much.

2395
01:44:31,850 --> 01:44:33,960
Thank you councilor Edwards

2396
01:44:33,960 --> 01:44:35,490
and thank you to the city council

2397
01:44:35,490 --> 01:44:38,124
and all the panelists for
taking up this important issue.

2398
01:44:38,124 --> 01:44:41,823
My name is Maty Cropley,
I use they/them pronouns.

2399
01:44:41,823 --> 01:44:44,850
I'm a teen librarian and
a bargaining unit member

2400
01:44:44,850 --> 01:44:47,529
of the Boston Public Library
Professional Staff Association,

2401
01:44:47,529 --> 01:44:51,506
MSLA local 4928 AFT.

2402
01:44:51,506 --> 01:44:53,380
Our union of library workers

2403
01:44:53,380 --> 01:44:56,068
supports a ban on facial
recognition in Boston.

2404
01:44:56,068 --> 01:44:58,070
In voting to do so,

2405
01:44:58,070 --> 01:45:00,167
our union recognizes
that facial recognition

2406
01:45:00,167 --> 01:45:02,240
and other forms of biometric surveillance

2407
01:45:02,240 --> 01:45:03,610
are a threat to the civil liberties

2408
01:45:03,610 --> 01:45:06,810
and safety of our colleagues
and of library users.

2409
01:45:06,810 --> 01:45:09,170
Our library ethics of privacy
and intellectual freedom

2410
01:45:09,170 --> 01:45:12,400
are incompatible with
this invasive technology.

2411
01:45:12,400 --> 01:45:14,007
We recognize that facial recognition

2412
01:45:14,007 --> 01:45:16,670
and other biometric
surveillance technologies

2413
01:45:16,670 --> 01:45:18,510
are proven to be riddled with racist,

2414
01:45:18,510 --> 01:45:21,340
ableist and gendered algorithmic biases.

2415
01:45:21,340 --> 01:45:23,770
These systems routinely
misidentify people of color,

2416
01:45:23,770 --> 01:45:25,987
which can result in needless
contact with law enforcement

2417
01:45:25,987 --> 01:45:30,080
and other scrutiny, essentially
automating racial profiling.

2418
01:45:30,080 --> 01:45:32,890
We recognize the harm of
surveillance for youth in our city,

2419
01:45:32,890 --> 01:45:35,820
especially black, brown
and immigrant youth.

2420
01:45:35,820 --> 01:45:37,890
Unregulated scrutiny by authorities

2421
01:45:37,890 --> 01:45:40,130
leads to early contact
with law enforcement

2422
01:45:40,130 --> 01:45:43,270
resulting in disenfranchisement,
marginalized futures

2423
01:45:43,270 --> 01:45:45,920
and potential death by state violence.

2424
01:45:45,920 --> 01:45:48,520
We recognize that public
areas such as libraries,

2425
01:45:48,520 --> 01:45:50,500
parks, and sidewalks exist as spaces

2426
01:45:50,500 --> 01:45:52,930
in which people should be free to move,

2427
01:45:52,930 --> 01:45:56,130
speak, think inquire, perform, protest,

2428
01:45:56,130 --> 01:45:58,460
and assemble freely without
the intense scrutiny

2429
01:45:58,460 --> 01:46:01,270
of unregulated surveillance
by law enforcement.

2430
01:46:01,270 --> 01:46:03,540
Public spaces exist to extend our rights

2431
01:46:03,540 --> 01:46:05,110
and provide space for the performance

2432
01:46:05,110 --> 01:46:08,340
of our civil liberties, not policing.

2433
01:46:08,340 --> 01:46:10,090
A ban on face surveillance technology

2434
01:46:10,090 --> 01:46:12,384
is critically important for the residents

2435
01:46:12,384 --> 01:46:15,180
and visitors to the city of Boston.

2436
01:46:15,180 --> 01:46:17,584
Our union encourages you to ban

2437
01:46:17,584 --> 01:46:18,810
the use of face surveillance
in the city of Boston

2438
01:46:18,810 --> 01:46:21,830
by supporting and passing
this very crucial ordinance.

2439
01:46:21,830 --> 01:46:23,390
I'd like to thank you for your time.

2440
01:46:23,390 --> 01:46:25,080
And we are the Boston Public Library,

2441
01:46:25,080 --> 01:46:26,820
Professional Staff Association.

2442
01:46:26,820 --> 01:46:28,630
Thank you very much.

2443
01:46:28,630 --> 01:46:30,163
Thank you very much.

2444
01:46:30,163 --> 01:46:34,570
I understand that Ms. Bonnie is available.

2445
01:46:34,570 --> 01:46:39,033
She's under a name Linda Rydzewski,

2446
01:46:42,282 --> 01:46:43,682
and we're gonna pull her up.

2447
01:46:47,339 --> 01:46:48,513
I'll check when she's available.

2448
01:46:49,640 --> 01:46:53,163
After her will be the
following three testifiers,

2449
01:46:53,163 --> 01:46:58,163
Nikhill Thorat, Nour Sulalman
and professor Woodrow Hartzog.

2450
01:46:59,668 --> 01:47:02,193
First, Bonnie.

2451
01:47:07,984 --> 01:47:10,901
She's under Linda Rydzewski, sorry.

2452
01:47:13,564 --> 01:47:15,553
Linda Rydzewski

2453
01:47:19,904 --> 01:47:24,780
I am so sorry, I've had
a technical problems.

2454
01:47:24,780 --> 01:47:26,810
This is Bonnie Tenneriello,

2455
01:47:26,810 --> 01:47:29,360
on behalf of the National Lawyers Guild.

2456
01:47:29,360 --> 01:47:34,270
And I had to sign in
with my office account

2457
01:47:34,270 --> 01:47:38,880
and I am not representing
Prisoner's Legal Services

2458
01:47:38,880 --> 01:47:42,800
and I couldn't change the screen
name once I was signed in.

2459
01:47:42,800 --> 01:47:44,283
Am I audible to everyone?

2460
01:47:45,690 --> 01:47:48,000
You're on and you have two minutes.

2461
01:47:48,000 --> 01:47:49,585
Okay.

2462
01:47:49,585 --> 01:47:53,210
I'm speaking on behalf of
the National Lawyers Guild,

2463
01:47:53,210 --> 01:47:55,083
Massachusetts Chapter,

2464
01:47:55,083 --> 01:48:00,083
which for over 80 years as
fought for human rights,

2465
01:48:04,040 --> 01:48:06,300
and we're deeply
concerned over the dangers

2466
01:48:06,300 --> 01:48:07,680
of facial surveillance.

2467
01:48:07,680 --> 01:48:11,087
We strongly support this ordinance.

2468
01:48:11,087 --> 01:48:15,480
Facial recognition
deployed through cameras

2469
01:48:15,480 --> 01:48:17,690
throughout a city can be used

2470
01:48:17,690 --> 01:48:19,600
to track the movements of dissidents

2471
01:48:19,600 --> 01:48:22,790
and anyone attending a protest
as others have observed.

2472
01:48:22,790 --> 01:48:25,410
Our history and the National Lawyers Guild

2473
01:48:25,410 --> 01:48:28,700
shows that this danger is real.

2474
01:48:28,700 --> 01:48:30,830
We have defended political dissidents

2475
01:48:30,830 --> 01:48:33,187
targeted by law enforcement,

2476
01:48:33,187 --> 01:48:36,100
such as members of the
Black Panther Party,

2477
01:48:36,100 --> 01:48:37,330
American Indian Movement,

2478
01:48:37,330 --> 01:48:39,300
Puerto Rican Independence Movement

2479
01:48:39,300 --> 01:48:41,600
and we're recently here in Boston,

2480
01:48:41,600 --> 01:48:44,106
occupied Boston Climate Change activists,

2481
01:48:44,106 --> 01:48:47,270
those opposing a straight pride event

2482
01:48:47,270 --> 01:48:48,920
and Black Lives Matter.

2483
01:48:48,920 --> 01:48:53,920
We know that the dangers
of political surveillance

2484
01:48:55,580 --> 01:48:58,893
and political use of
this technology are real.

2485
01:48:59,810 --> 01:49:01,020
The National Lawyers Guild

2486
01:49:01,020 --> 01:49:04,023
also helped expose illegal surveillance

2487
01:49:04,023 --> 01:49:09,023
in the Church Commission
1975-76 COINTELPRO hearings.

2488
01:49:10,623 --> 01:49:12,684
We know from this experience

2489
01:49:12,684 --> 01:49:15,960
that this can be used to disrupt

2490
01:49:15,960 --> 01:49:19,930
and prosecute political protest.

2491
01:49:19,930 --> 01:49:21,760
People must be able to demonstrate

2492
01:49:21,760 --> 01:49:25,910
without fear of being identified
and tracked afterwards.

2493
01:49:25,910 --> 01:49:28,665
I will not repeat what others have said

2494
01:49:28,665 --> 01:49:33,050
very articulately about just
the basic privacy concerns

2495
01:49:33,050 --> 01:49:35,050
of being able to walk through a city,

2496
01:49:35,050 --> 01:49:37,660
without having cameras track your identity

2497
01:49:37,660 --> 01:49:39,660
and movements throughout the city,

2498
01:49:39,660 --> 01:49:44,180
nor will I repeat the excellent testimony

2499
01:49:44,180 --> 01:49:49,180
that was given about the
racial bias in this technology.

2500
01:49:49,550 --> 01:49:52,320
But on behalf of the
National Lawyers Guild,

2501
01:49:52,320 --> 01:49:56,520
I will say that we cannot
tolerate a technology

2502
01:49:56,520 --> 01:50:00,060
that perpetuates racism
in law enforcement,

2503
01:50:00,060 --> 01:50:01,840
as tens of thousands of people

2504
01:50:01,840 --> 01:50:05,180
take to the streets
calling for racial justice.

2505
01:50:05,180 --> 01:50:08,290
We're at a historical moment
when our society is demanding

2506
01:50:08,290 --> 01:50:11,110
and this council is
considering a shift away

2507
01:50:11,110 --> 01:50:15,145
from control and policing
of communities of color

2508
01:50:15,145 --> 01:50:17,164
and low-income communities

2509
01:50:17,164 --> 01:50:18,450
and towards community directed programs

2510
01:50:18,450 --> 01:50:22,180
that channel resources to
jobs, healthcare, education,

2511
01:50:22,180 --> 01:50:25,204
and other programs that
create true safety.

2512
01:50:25,204 --> 01:50:29,070
We reject facial surveillance

2513
01:50:29,070 --> 01:50:33,210
and we urge the council
to pass this ordinance.

2514
01:50:33,210 --> 01:50:35,033
Thank you very much.

2515
01:50:36,650 --> 01:50:39,843
So up next we have Nikhill Thorat.

2516
01:50:42,921 --> 01:50:44,170
Sorry, if I mispronounced your name.

2517
01:50:44,170 --> 01:50:45,310
No harm, you got that right.

2518
01:50:45,310 --> 01:50:48,263
So thank you chair and to the
amazing speakers before me.

2519
01:50:48,263 --> 01:50:52,990
My name is Nikhil, I work on
at Google Brain in Cambridge.

2520
01:50:52,990 --> 01:50:54,510
So I specifically work in the area

2521
01:50:54,510 --> 01:50:57,933
of machine learning fairness
and interpretability.

2522
01:50:57,933 --> 01:50:59,330
So this is sort of the stuff that we do.

2523
01:50:59,330 --> 01:51:00,620
So I'm here as a citizen,

2524
01:51:00,620 --> 01:51:02,950
and I am very much in
favor of the ordinance

2525
01:51:02,950 --> 01:51:05,710
banning facial recognition
by public officials

2526
01:51:05,710 --> 01:51:07,300
here in Boston.

2527
01:51:07,300 --> 01:51:10,310
So modern AI algorithms
are statistical machines.

2528
01:51:10,310 --> 01:51:12,800
They base predictions off
patterns and data sets

2529
01:51:12,800 --> 01:51:15,230
that they're trained on,
there's there's no magic here.

2530
01:51:15,230 --> 01:51:18,710
So any bias that stems from
how a data set is collected,

2531
01:51:18,710 --> 01:51:20,900
like non-representative collection of data

2532
01:51:20,900 --> 01:51:21,880
for different races

2533
01:51:21,880 --> 01:51:23,610
because of historical context,

2534
01:51:23,610 --> 01:51:27,260
gets automatically reflected
in the AI models predictions.

2535
01:51:27,260 --> 01:51:31,060
So what this means is that it
manifests as unequal errors

2536
01:51:31,060 --> 01:51:33,460
between subgroups, like race or gender.

2537
01:51:33,460 --> 01:51:35,050
And this is not theoretical,

2538
01:51:35,050 --> 01:51:36,680
it's been studied very deeply

2539
01:51:37,975 --> 01:51:39,473
by many AI researchers in this field

2540
01:51:39,473 --> 01:51:40,330
who have been on this call.

2541
01:51:40,330 --> 01:51:42,253
There's a federal NISD,

2542
01:51:42,253 --> 01:51:44,700
a National Institute of
Standards and Technology Study

2543
01:51:44,700 --> 01:51:47,280
that looks at almost 200
facial recognition algorithms

2544
01:51:47,280 --> 01:51:49,880
and found significant
demographic disparities

2545
01:51:49,880 --> 01:51:51,400
in most of them.

2546
01:51:51,400 --> 01:51:55,110
And there's another paper
by Joy here, Gender Shades,

2547
01:51:55,110 --> 01:51:57,027
that looked at three commercial
classification systems

2548
01:51:57,027 --> 01:51:58,450
and found that there are

2549
01:51:59,690 --> 01:52:03,740
35% of the time incorrect
results for dark-skinned females

2550
01:52:03,740 --> 01:52:07,040
versus only 0.8% incorrect
for light-skinned males.

2551
01:52:07,040 --> 01:52:08,977
This is, this is horrible, right?

2552
01:52:08,977 --> 01:52:12,510
So these mistakes can't
also be viewed in isolation.

2553
01:52:12,510 --> 01:52:14,820
They will perpetuate bias issues

2554
01:52:14,820 --> 01:52:16,300
by informing the collection

2555
01:52:16,300 --> 01:52:18,240
of the next generation of datasets,

2556
01:52:18,240 --> 01:52:19,750
which are then again used

2557
01:52:19,750 --> 01:52:22,540
to train the next generation of AI models.

2558
01:52:22,540 --> 01:52:24,580
Moreover, when mistakes are made either

2559
01:52:24,580 --> 01:52:26,780
by a machine or by a human being,

2560
01:52:26,780 --> 01:52:28,430
we need to be able to ask the question,

2561
01:52:28,430 --> 01:52:30,460
why was that mistake made?

2562
01:52:30,460 --> 01:52:32,972
And we simply haven't
developed robust tools

2563
01:52:32,972 --> 01:52:35,010
to be able to hold these algorithms

2564
01:52:35,010 --> 01:52:37,160
to an acceptable level of transparency,

2565
01:52:37,160 --> 01:52:40,200
to answer any of these critical questions.

2566
01:52:40,200 --> 01:52:42,117
Deployment of these systems

2567
01:52:42,117 --> 01:52:43,929
will exacerbate the issues of racial bias

2568
01:52:43,929 --> 01:52:46,130
and policing and accelerate
the various social inequalities

2569
01:52:47,098 --> 01:52:49,230
that we're protesting to
innocent people will be targeted.

2570
01:52:49,230 --> 01:52:51,533
The threshold for deploying these systems

2571
01:52:51,533 --> 01:52:52,970
should be extremely high,

2572
01:52:52,970 --> 01:52:55,777
one that's arguably not
reachable beyond accuracy,

2573
01:52:55,777 --> 01:52:58,174
beyond a hundred percent accuracy idea.

2574
01:52:58,174 --> 01:53:00,050
Data would have to be public

2575
01:53:00,050 --> 01:53:02,870
and there would have to be
actionable algorithmic oversight.

2576
01:53:02,870 --> 01:53:05,715
This is an incredibly high bar
and we are nowhere near that,

2577
01:53:05,715 --> 01:53:08,400
both algorithmically and societaly.

2578
01:53:08,400 --> 01:53:09,300
Along with this ordinance,

2579
01:53:09,300 --> 01:53:10,840
we must start laying the groundwork

2580
01:53:10,840 --> 01:53:13,540
for a rigorous criteria
for future technology

2581
01:53:13,540 --> 01:53:15,910
as it is an inevitable conversation.

2582
01:53:15,910 --> 01:53:17,500
But first we must pass the ordinance

2583
01:53:17,500 --> 01:53:19,400
banning facial recognition in Boston.

2584
01:53:19,400 --> 01:53:20,700
Thank you very much.

2585
01:53:20,700 --> 01:53:22,672
Thank you very much,

2586
01:53:22,672 --> 01:53:26,023
following Nikhill we have Nour Sulalman.

2587
01:53:28,690 --> 01:53:31,500
Sorry again for mispronunciation.

2588
01:53:31,500 --> 01:53:32,333
It's all good.

2589
01:53:33,290 --> 01:53:35,314
Thank you council members

2590
01:53:35,314 --> 01:53:38,118
and authors of the ordinance
for your service to the city.

2591
01:53:38,118 --> 01:53:40,870
My name is Noue Sulalman Langedorfer,

2592
01:53:40,870 --> 01:53:43,128
and I use she/her pronouns.

2593
01:53:43,128 --> 01:53:45,770
I'm a resident of Jamaica Plain,

2594
01:53:45,770 --> 01:53:48,939
and I'm here in my capacity
as a private citizen.

2595
01:53:48,939 --> 01:53:52,240
I won't repeat what everyone else said,

2596
01:53:52,240 --> 01:53:55,130
but I will say that the
use of facial recognition

2597
01:53:55,130 --> 01:53:58,620
by law enforcement today,
is especially disturbing

2598
01:53:58,620 --> 01:54:01,990
due to the epidemic of police
violence in this country

2599
01:54:01,990 --> 01:54:04,850
and the dysfunctional relationship it has

2600
01:54:04,850 --> 01:54:08,390
with black and brown people in the city.

2601
01:54:08,390 --> 01:54:10,580
And with all due respect,

2602
01:54:10,580 --> 01:54:13,300
I'm unconvinced by the distinction made

2603
01:54:13,300 --> 01:54:16,536
between facial surveillance
and facial recognition.

2604
01:54:16,536 --> 01:54:21,536
I'm even more disturbed or I am disturbed

2605
01:54:21,980 --> 01:54:23,410
that the commissioner does not know

2606
01:54:23,410 --> 01:54:27,191
if the police department uses
facial recognition software.

2607
01:54:27,191 --> 01:54:31,310
I asked the council to consider supporting

2608
01:54:31,310 --> 01:54:33,890
that the ordinance established a total ban

2609
01:54:33,890 --> 01:54:35,720
on the use of facial recognition software

2610
01:54:35,720 --> 01:54:39,100
in all public spaces,
including by law enforcement,

2611
01:54:39,100 --> 01:54:41,380
malls and shopping centers, retail spaces,

2612
01:54:41,380 --> 01:54:44,770
restaurants open to the public,
state government buildings,

2613
01:54:44,770 --> 01:54:48,520
courts, public schools,
schools funded by the state,

2614
01:54:48,520 --> 01:54:50,980
on public streets and
in places of employment,

2615
01:54:50,980 --> 01:54:52,590
as a condition of employment

2616
01:54:52,590 --> 01:54:55,899
and as a condition of landlords
leasing rental properties.

2617
01:54:55,899 --> 01:54:58,350
The ban should also apply to the use

2618
01:54:58,350 --> 01:55:00,680
and purchase a facial recognition software

2619
01:55:00,680 --> 01:55:03,790
by any state agency operating in Boston,

2620
01:55:03,790 --> 01:55:05,830
including law enforcement

2621
01:55:05,830 --> 01:55:08,980
and I further or to the council
to consider adopting a ban

2622
01:55:08,980 --> 01:55:12,800
on the use of private DNA
databases by law enforcement

2623
01:55:12,800 --> 01:55:15,790
and all remote surveillance systems,

2624
01:55:15,790 --> 01:55:18,457
including those that
recognize individual gates.

2625
01:55:18,457 --> 01:55:23,457
Information gathered through
the aforementioned technologies

2626
01:55:24,010 --> 01:55:27,390
should not be deemed
admissible in civil, criminal

2627
01:55:27,390 --> 01:55:29,589
or administrative proceedings

2628
01:55:29,589 --> 01:55:33,516
or serve as a basis for
granting a search warrant.

2629
01:55:33,516 --> 01:55:34,993
Thank you madam chair.

2630
01:55:38,200 --> 01:55:39,300
Thank you very much.

2631
01:55:40,149 --> 01:55:43,683
I have a professor Woodrow Hartzog.

2632
01:55:46,320 --> 01:55:47,570
Okay, two minutes.

2633
01:55:47,570 --> 01:55:50,340
Thank you so much, dear councilors,

2634
01:55:50,340 --> 01:55:52,230
thank you for allowing me the opportunity

2635
01:55:52,230 --> 01:55:54,470
to speak in support of the ordinance.

2636
01:55:54,470 --> 01:55:56,990
Banning face surveillance in Boston.

2637
01:55:56,990 --> 01:55:59,170
I am a professor of law
and computer science

2638
01:55:59,170 --> 01:56:00,810
at Northeastern University,

2639
01:56:00,810 --> 01:56:02,913
who has been researching and writing

2640
01:56:02,913 --> 01:56:04,610
about the risks of facial
recognition technologies

2641
01:56:04,610 --> 01:56:06,280
for over seven years,

2642
01:56:06,280 --> 01:56:09,419
I make these comments in my
personal academic capacity.

2643
01:56:09,419 --> 01:56:11,128
I'm not serving as an advocate

2644
01:56:11,128 --> 01:56:14,070
for any particular organization.

2645
01:56:14,070 --> 01:56:16,680
Please allow me to be direct,

2646
01:56:16,680 --> 01:56:18,290
facial recognition technology

2647
01:56:18,290 --> 01:56:21,980
is the most dangerous
surveillance tool ever invented.

2648
01:56:21,980 --> 01:56:24,610
It poses substantial
threats to civil liberties,

2649
01:56:24,610 --> 01:56:27,080
privacy and democratic accountability.

2650
01:56:27,080 --> 01:56:30,530
Quite simply the world has
never seen anything like it.

2651
01:56:30,530 --> 01:56:33,950
Traditional legal rules, such
as requiring legal process

2652
01:56:33,950 --> 01:56:36,535
or people's consent before
surveillance could be conducted,

2653
01:56:36,535 --> 01:56:39,340
will only entrench these systems,

2654
01:56:39,340 --> 01:56:41,220
lead to a more watched society

2655
01:56:41,220 --> 01:56:44,500
where we are all treated
as suspects all the time.

2656
01:56:44,500 --> 01:56:45,850
Anything less than a ban

2657
01:56:45,850 --> 01:56:48,550
will inevitably lead to unacceptable abuse

2658
01:56:48,550 --> 01:56:51,223
of the massive power
bestowed by these systems.

2659
01:56:51,223 --> 01:56:53,230
That is why I believe that this ordinance

2660
01:56:53,230 --> 01:56:55,490
is justified and necessary.

2661
01:56:55,490 --> 01:56:57,190
There are many ways that law enforcement's

2662
01:56:57,190 --> 01:56:59,712
use of facial recognition
technology can harm people.

2663
01:56:59,712 --> 01:57:01,600
Government surveillance

2664
01:57:01,600 --> 01:57:04,850
has disproportionately targeted
marginalized communities,

2665
01:57:04,850 --> 01:57:06,670
specifically people of color,

2666
01:57:06,670 --> 01:57:09,070
facial recognition will
only make this worse

2667
01:57:09,070 --> 01:57:10,930
because it is inaccurate and bias

2668
01:57:10,930 --> 01:57:13,715
based along racial and gender lines.

2669
01:57:13,715 --> 01:57:16,177
And while facial
recognition is unacceptable

2670
01:57:16,177 --> 01:57:18,440
and it's biased and error prone,

2671
01:57:18,440 --> 01:57:20,270
the more accurate it becomes,

2672
01:57:20,270 --> 01:57:22,200
the more oppressive it will get.

2673
01:57:22,200 --> 01:57:25,712
Accurate systems will be more
heavily used and invested in

2674
01:57:25,712 --> 01:57:28,910
further endangering the people of Boston.

2675
01:57:28,910 --> 01:57:31,560
Use of facial recognition
seems likely to create

2676
01:57:31,560 --> 01:57:34,000
a pervasive atmosphere of chill.

2677
01:57:34,000 --> 01:57:36,840
These tools make it easier
to engage in surveillance,

2678
01:57:36,840 --> 01:57:40,010
which means the more
surveillance can and will occur.

2679
01:57:40,010 --> 01:57:43,180
The mere prospect of a
hyper surveil society

2680
01:57:43,180 --> 01:57:44,870
could routinely prevent citizens

2681
01:57:44,870 --> 01:57:47,940
from engaging in First
Amendment protected activities,

2682
01:57:47,940 --> 01:57:50,020
such as protesting and worshiping,

2683
01:57:50,020 --> 01:57:53,590
for fear of ending up on
government watch lists.

2684
01:57:53,590 --> 01:57:55,670
Facial recognition also poses a threat

2685
01:57:55,670 --> 01:57:57,640
to our ideals of due process,

2686
01:57:57,640 --> 01:57:59,010
because it makes it all too easy

2687
01:57:59,010 --> 01:58:02,490
for governments to excessively
enforce minor infractions

2688
01:58:02,490 --> 01:58:05,200
as pretext for secretly monitoring

2689
01:58:05,200 --> 01:58:07,610
and retaliating against our citizens

2690
01:58:07,610 --> 01:58:10,760
who are often targeted for
speaking up like journalists,

2691
01:58:10,760 --> 01:58:13,370
whistleblowers and activists.

2692
01:58:13,370 --> 01:58:15,860
The net result could be
anxious and oppressed citizens

2693
01:58:15,860 --> 01:58:19,320
who were denied fundamental
opportunities and rights.

2694
01:58:19,320 --> 01:58:20,690
For the reasons outlined above,

2695
01:58:20,690 --> 01:58:22,190
I strongly support the ordinance

2696
01:58:22,190 --> 01:58:24,950
banning facial recognition
surveillance in Boston.

2697
01:58:24,950 --> 01:58:26,630
It's the best approach for preventing

2698
01:58:26,630 --> 01:58:27,980
an Orwellian future

2699
01:58:27,980 --> 01:58:29,670
and ensuring that the city of Boston

2700
01:58:29,670 --> 01:58:33,100
remain a place where people can flourish

2701
01:58:33,100 --> 01:58:35,870
and civil liberties from a protected.

2702
01:58:35,870 --> 01:58:37,420
Thank you so much, professor.

2703
01:58:38,280 --> 01:58:43,280
We have coming up, Alex
Marthews, Emily Reif,

2704
01:58:44,637 --> 01:58:47,273
Jurell Laronal.

2705
01:58:48,550 --> 01:58:52,510
Those three folks, I don't
know if they're ready to go.

2706
01:58:52,510 --> 01:58:56,373
But we'll start, I see Jurell, I see Alex.

2707
01:58:57,290 --> 01:58:59,597
Go ahead Alex, Marthews.

2708
01:59:01,320 --> 01:59:02,153
Hi.

2709
01:59:03,551 --> 01:59:08,551
I don't wish to echo what
other excellent advocates

2710
01:59:09,810 --> 01:59:10,970
have been saying,

2711
01:59:10,970 --> 01:59:15,400
but I am here representing Digital Fourth,

2712
01:59:15,400 --> 01:59:16,740
restored fourth Boston,

2713
01:59:16,740 --> 01:59:19,340
where she is a volunteer based

2714
01:59:19,340 --> 01:59:22,780
advocacy group on surveillance
and policing issues

2715
01:59:22,780 --> 01:59:24,103
in the Boston area.

2716
01:59:25,373 --> 01:59:30,373
I wanna highlight some
comments of commissioner Gross,

2717
01:59:30,898 --> 01:59:34,283
in addition to our testimony.

2718
01:59:35,150 --> 01:59:39,040
Commissioner Gross seems to
recognize the racial biases

2719
01:59:39,040 --> 01:59:43,410
and limitations of this
technology as it stands now,

2720
01:59:43,410 --> 01:59:47,420
but he says it's improving
and he holds out hope

2721
01:59:47,420 --> 01:59:51,510
that it will be more
accurate in the future.

2722
01:59:51,510 --> 01:59:53,630
And that perhaps at some future point,

2723
01:59:53,630 --> 01:59:56,960
the Boston City Council should reconsider

2724
01:59:56,960 --> 01:59:58,580
whether it will be appropriate

2725
01:59:58,580 --> 02:00:03,134
to implement facial
recognition technology.

2726
02:00:03,134 --> 02:00:05,710
The problem with this is that

2727
02:00:05,710 --> 02:00:10,710
a 100% accurate facial
recognition technology system

2728
02:00:10,780 --> 02:00:11,933
would be terrifying.

2729
02:00:13,356 --> 02:00:17,657
And it would represent the
death of anonymity in public.

2730
02:00:18,570 --> 02:00:23,480
In terms of the effect of
facial recognition technology

2731
02:00:23,480 --> 02:00:26,083
on legislative terrorists themselves,

2732
02:00:27,260 --> 02:00:29,520
there have been a number of studies now

2733
02:00:30,457 --> 02:00:34,430
that show that current facial
recognition technologies

2734
02:00:34,430 --> 02:00:36,170
are perfectly capable

2735
02:00:37,980 --> 02:00:40,300
of misidentifying legislators as criminals

2736
02:00:41,420 --> 02:00:45,820
and these systems being 100% accurate

2737
02:00:45,820 --> 02:00:49,710
will pose even more
worrying risks about that.

2738
02:00:49,710 --> 02:00:52,170
As city councilors,

2739
02:00:52,170 --> 02:00:54,570
where are you going when
you're going in public,

2740
02:00:54,570 --> 02:00:57,210
are you meeting with
social justice groups?

2741
02:00:57,210 --> 02:00:59,290
Are you meeting with immigrant advocates?

2742
02:00:59,290 --> 02:01:01,810
Are you meeting with God forbid,

2743
02:01:01,810 --> 02:01:04,835
police reform and down to
kit accountability groups?

2744
02:01:04,835 --> 02:01:08,210
Are you doing something
embarrassing perhaps

2745
02:01:08,210 --> 02:01:10,960
that could be used to influence your votes

2746
02:01:10,960 --> 02:01:13,000
on matters of public interest

2747
02:01:13,000 --> 02:01:16,100
or matters relating to the police budget?

2748
02:01:16,100 --> 02:01:20,810
The risk of these things
happening are very real,

2749
02:01:20,810 --> 02:01:23,480
if it is to be implemented in the future.

2750
02:01:23,480 --> 02:01:26,154
And the only appropriate response

2751
02:01:26,154 --> 02:01:30,663
is for today's city council
to ban this technology.

2752
02:01:31,656 --> 02:01:34,330
Thank you very much.

2753
02:01:35,800 --> 02:01:38,830
I believe, I don't know
if Emily is available,

2754
02:01:38,830 --> 02:01:43,830
but I do see Jurell, Jurell
would you like to go?

2755
02:01:50,861 --> 02:01:51,694
Thank you.

2756
02:01:51,694 --> 02:01:54,330
Thank you, Boston City Council
for having this platform.

2757
02:01:54,330 --> 02:01:56,170
I wanna thank you.

2758
02:01:56,170 --> 02:01:58,680
Thank you and a shout out
to the expert advocates

2759
02:01:58,680 --> 02:02:01,763
on the subject for shedding
light on the subject

2760
02:02:01,763 --> 02:02:04,850
that me and many of us
are not fully versed in.

2761
02:02:04,850 --> 02:02:07,800
What I am well versed in it though,

2762
02:02:07,800 --> 02:02:09,710
is the reality surrounding

2763
02:02:09,710 --> 02:02:12,070
the Boston Police Department's history

2764
02:02:12,070 --> 02:02:14,546
and the negative impact that they have had

2765
02:02:14,546 --> 02:02:17,370
on the black or brown
Bostonian's for decades.

2766
02:02:17,370 --> 02:02:18,860
My name is Jurell Laronal,

2767
02:02:18,860 --> 02:02:21,250
I'm a formerly incarcerated black man

2768
02:02:21,250 --> 02:02:24,658
from a heavily police commerce
neighborhood of Dorchester.

2769
02:02:24,658 --> 02:02:29,480
I'm a community organizer for
Families for Justice as Halen

2770
02:02:29,480 --> 02:02:32,420
and I'm here to support the ordinance

2771
02:02:32,420 --> 02:02:35,910
banning facial recognition
technology in Boston

2772
02:02:35,910 --> 02:02:39,040
presented by councilors Wu and Arroyo.

2773
02:02:39,040 --> 02:02:41,100
First, what are we talking about?

2774
02:02:41,100 --> 02:02:43,880
We are talking about a force whose actions

2775
02:02:43,880 --> 02:02:47,690
and racial profiling techniques
have been documented,

2776
02:02:47,690 --> 02:02:50,550
tried in court and notoriously
known for targeting

2777
02:02:50,550 --> 02:02:55,300
and terrorizing those from
my disinvested communities.

2778
02:02:55,300 --> 02:03:00,202
We are talking about
militarization to intimidate,

2779
02:03:00,202 --> 02:03:03,938
force their well on
black and brown citizens

2780
02:03:03,938 --> 02:03:05,480
of the Commonwealth.

2781
02:03:05,480 --> 02:03:08,260
A force by their own field interrogations

2782
02:03:08,260 --> 02:03:09,270
and observation records,

2783
02:03:09,270 --> 02:03:12,642
show almost 70% of them
were black residents

2784
02:03:12,642 --> 02:03:16,160
in a city that's only around 25.2% black.

2785
02:03:16,160 --> 02:03:19,422
So we're talking about
taking the same force

2786
02:03:19,422 --> 02:03:21,580
and further funding them

2787
02:03:21,580 --> 02:03:24,310
and equipping them with another weapon

2788
02:03:24,310 --> 02:03:27,160
that would definitely be used
to further oppress, target

2789
02:03:27,160 --> 02:03:30,170
and incarcerate our sons and fathers

2790
02:03:30,170 --> 02:03:32,130
and daughters and mothers.

2791
02:03:32,130 --> 02:03:34,580
My organization is currently
supporting the appeals

2792
02:03:34,580 --> 02:03:38,004
and release efforts of black
men and their families,

2793
02:03:38,004 --> 02:03:40,830
who have been incarcerated
since the seventies

2794
02:03:40,830 --> 02:03:44,203
due to a racist profiling
and racist misidentification.

2795
02:03:45,161 --> 02:03:48,520
When I think about racial
recognition software,

2796
02:03:48,520 --> 02:03:51,380
which at best is predatory and inaccurate,

2797
02:03:51,380 --> 02:03:54,680
I don't see a solution
and I don't see safety.

2798
02:03:54,680 --> 02:03:56,900
I see yet another form of racial bias

2799
02:03:56,900 --> 02:03:58,460
and another way of police

2800
02:03:59,523 --> 02:04:00,356
to cause harm in my community.

2801
02:04:01,310 --> 02:04:04,340
Today our city's historical
racial profiling issue

2802
02:04:04,340 --> 02:04:06,780
with, somebody said it earlier,

2803
02:04:06,780 --> 02:04:08,360
with the federal government study

2804
02:04:08,360 --> 02:04:11,940
that the algorithm, my fault,

2805
02:04:11,940 --> 02:04:15,005
failed to identify people of color

2806
02:04:15,005 --> 02:04:17,733
and children and elderly and women.

2807
02:04:18,821 --> 02:04:22,410
I see that it needs to be banned

2808
02:04:22,410 --> 02:04:25,290
because we can't continue
condoning and reassuring

2809
02:04:25,290 --> 02:04:29,320
and fueling other generations
of black and brown

2810
02:04:29,320 --> 02:04:32,130
men and women from Dorchester
Roxbury and Mattapan,

2811
02:04:32,130 --> 02:04:34,707
to more trauma and more incarceration.

2812
02:04:34,707 --> 02:04:37,420
Investment in our communities

2813
02:04:37,420 --> 02:04:39,270
through community led processes,

2814
02:04:39,270 --> 02:04:41,430
is the only thing that we need,

2815
02:04:41,430 --> 02:04:43,540
not facial recognition tech.

2816
02:04:43,540 --> 02:04:45,960
Oh these bees are messing
with me, sorry about that.

2817
02:04:45,960 --> 02:04:50,421
No matter what level that
technology reaches and thank you.

2818
02:04:50,421 --> 02:04:51,330
That's all I have to say.

2819
02:04:51,330 --> 02:04:52,530
I'm gonna keep it quick.

2820
02:04:54,722 --> 02:04:55,727
Thank you very much.

2821
02:04:55,727 --> 02:04:56,560
I really do appreciate it.

2822
02:04:56,560 --> 02:04:58,000
And I think, again speak from the heart

2823
02:04:58,000 --> 02:04:59,290
about their own experience

2824
02:04:59,290 --> 02:05:02,070
and specifically talk about
how it would impact them,

2825
02:05:02,070 --> 02:05:03,940
I do appreciate that.

2826
02:05:03,940 --> 02:05:05,750
Not that I don't appreciate the experts

2827
02:05:05,750 --> 02:05:07,210
but I'm telling you there's nothing better

2828
02:05:07,210 --> 02:05:10,140
than hearing about how
residents are directly impacted.

2829
02:05:10,140 --> 02:05:10,973
Thank you.

2830
02:05:11,824 --> 02:05:16,824
I have also on the list, Cynthia Pades,

2831
02:05:19,230 --> 02:05:20,955
I don't have a name,

2832
02:05:20,955 --> 02:05:23,683
but I have an organization
called For the People Boston.

2833
02:05:25,570 --> 02:05:27,220
I don't think we have either one.

2834
02:05:28,571 --> 02:05:29,607
There is.

2835
02:05:29,607 --> 02:05:33,163
Oh, I see a Marco, Marco Staminivich.

2836
02:05:37,093 --> 02:05:39,343
Marco, ready to go?

2837
02:05:41,710 --> 02:05:42,543
Marco!

2838
02:05:43,480 --> 02:05:44,513
Sure.
Okay.

2839
02:05:45,946 --> 02:05:48,970
How is it going everyone.

2840
02:05:48,970 --> 02:05:51,900
Thank you to the council and the panelists

2841
02:05:51,900 --> 02:05:53,720
for allowing me to speak.

2842
02:05:53,720 --> 02:05:55,750
So I'm a machine learning engineer

2843
02:05:55,750 --> 02:05:57,648
working in an adjacent field

2844
02:05:57,648 --> 02:06:00,474
and a resident of Jamaica Plain

2845
02:06:00,474 --> 02:06:02,873
and I'm here today as a private citizen.

2846
02:06:02,873 --> 02:06:05,540
So this is my first time
speaking at a public hearing,

2847
02:06:05,540 --> 02:06:07,493
so cut me some slack.

2848
02:06:07,493 --> 02:06:09,380
Although I'm not an expert

2849
02:06:09,380 --> 02:06:12,640
on service on the surveillance
aspect and the applications,

2850
02:06:12,640 --> 02:06:17,640
I am familiar with the
technology aspect of this stuff.

2851
02:06:18,800 --> 02:06:20,550
So I felt the need to testify today

2852
02:06:20,550 --> 02:06:22,807
because of the gravity of this issue.

2853
02:06:22,807 --> 02:06:27,613
Although the technology may
seem benign upon first glance,

2854
02:06:28,867 --> 02:06:31,630
this is an extremely
powerful and dangerous tool.

2855
02:06:31,630 --> 02:06:33,830
So to me this amounts to basically

2856
02:06:33,830 --> 02:06:35,950
a form of digital stop and frisk,

2857
02:06:35,950 --> 02:06:37,130
and it's even more dangerous

2858
02:06:37,130 --> 02:06:39,800
since it can be kind
of constantly running,

2859
02:06:39,800 --> 02:06:43,110
constantly working anywhere at all times,

2860
02:06:43,110 --> 02:06:44,580
kind of tracking folks.

2861
02:06:44,580 --> 02:06:46,280
This seems like a clear violation

2862
02:06:46,280 --> 02:06:48,423
of the Fourth Amendment to me.

2863
02:06:49,290 --> 02:06:52,420
As many commenters and
panelists today have noted,

2864
02:06:52,420 --> 02:06:55,080
in addition, as many
folks have noted today,

2865
02:06:55,080 --> 02:06:57,350
the technology is certainly not perfect

2866
02:06:57,350 --> 02:06:59,970
and it's riddled with
biases based on the data

2867
02:06:59,970 --> 02:07:02,300
that it was trained on
and how it was trained

2868
02:07:02,300 --> 02:07:03,963
and by the folks that trained it.

2869
02:07:04,800 --> 02:07:07,520
And although this is an
important thing to note,

2870
02:07:07,520 --> 02:07:08,930
this would really be a moot point

2871
02:07:08,930 --> 02:07:12,120
when evaluating these
technologies for deployment.

2872
02:07:12,120 --> 02:07:15,190
Because while a poorly
functioning system is bad

2873
02:07:15,190 --> 02:07:18,260
and introduces issues,

2874
02:07:18,260 --> 02:07:21,270
a perfectly functioning system
would be much, much worse

2875
02:07:21,270 --> 02:07:23,100
and would basically signal a world

2876
02:07:23,100 --> 02:07:24,940
where we could be tracked out of hand

2877
02:07:24,940 --> 02:07:28,150
at any time that police
or government wanted.

2878
02:07:28,150 --> 02:07:32,260
So that's really what I wanted to say.

2879
02:07:32,260 --> 02:07:37,140
And I wanted to kind of state my support

2880
02:07:37,140 --> 02:07:41,487
for a ban on any type of
facial recognition technology

2881
02:07:41,487 --> 02:07:44,210
for use by the police or the government.

2882
02:07:44,210 --> 02:07:47,100
And that we should
disincentivize the research

2883
02:07:47,100 --> 02:07:49,570
and development of, send clear signal

2884
02:07:51,263 --> 02:07:52,730
to disincentivize the
research and development

2885
02:07:52,730 --> 02:07:55,280
of these types of systems in the future.

2886
02:07:55,280 --> 02:07:58,610
Thank you.

2887
02:07:58,610 --> 02:08:00,070
Thank you, it was perfect on time,

2888
02:08:00,070 --> 02:08:01,500
for the first time participating.

2889
02:08:01,500 --> 02:08:02,470
We really appreciate it.

2890
02:08:02,470 --> 02:08:04,806
I hope that this is not your last time.

2891
02:08:04,806 --> 02:08:07,040
We are dealing with a
lot of different issues.

2892
02:08:07,040 --> 02:08:09,853
Your voice is definitely
welcome, thank you so much.

2893
02:08:11,510 --> 02:08:14,407
Up next I have,

2894
02:08:14,407 --> 02:08:19,407
I'm gonna name Will Luckman
followed by Lizette Medina,

2895
02:08:19,530 --> 02:08:23,151
and then also a Nathan
Sheard, I apologize again,

2896
02:08:23,151 --> 02:08:24,930
if I mispronounce your name,

2897
02:08:24,930 --> 02:08:27,360
feel free to just state your name again.

2898
02:08:27,360 --> 02:08:29,180
For folks who have already testified,

2899
02:08:29,180 --> 02:08:31,460
again, since we're over capacity,

2900
02:08:31,460 --> 02:08:34,740
if you sign out and then watch on YouTube

2901
02:08:34,740 --> 02:08:37,510
that allows for someone else
to get in line to also speak.

2902
02:08:37,510 --> 02:08:39,680
So just letting you know that

2903
02:08:39,680 --> 02:08:41,573
that's what we're trying to do.

2904
02:08:42,455 --> 02:08:44,230
So I will now turn it over.

2905
02:08:44,230 --> 02:08:45,870
I believe Will's ready to go.

2906
02:08:45,870 --> 02:08:47,430
And you have two minutes Will.

2907
02:08:48,350 --> 02:08:50,090
Thank you. good afternoon.

2908
02:08:50,090 --> 02:08:52,259
My name is Will Luckman
and I serve as an organizer

2909
02:08:52,259 --> 02:08:57,259
with the Surveillance Technology
Oversight Project or STOP

2910
02:08:57,720 --> 02:08:59,940
and STOP advocates and litigate

2911
02:08:59,940 --> 02:09:02,940
to fight discriminatory surveillance.

2912
02:09:02,940 --> 02:09:04,790
Thank you councilors for
holding this hearing today

2913
02:09:04,790 --> 02:09:07,624
and for proposing this crucial reform.

2914
02:09:07,624 --> 02:09:11,040
Today, my oral remarks are an
excerpt of written testimony

2915
02:09:11,040 --> 02:09:13,110
being entered into the record.

2916
02:09:13,110 --> 02:09:16,830
Facial recognition is biased,
broken, and when it works

2917
02:09:16,830 --> 02:09:19,430
antithetical to a democratic society.

2918
02:09:19,430 --> 02:09:22,180
And crucially, without this ban,

2919
02:09:22,180 --> 02:09:25,220
more people of color will be
wrongly stopped by the police

2920
02:09:25,220 --> 02:09:27,280
at a moment when the
dangers of police encounters

2921
02:09:27,280 --> 02:09:29,040
have never been clearer.

2922
02:09:29,040 --> 02:09:30,940
The technology that
drives facial recognition

2923
02:09:30,940 --> 02:09:33,423
is far more subjective than many realize.

2924
02:09:34,443 --> 02:09:36,270
Artificial intelligence is the aggregation

2925
02:09:36,270 --> 02:09:40,120
of countless human decisions
codified into algorithms.

2926
02:09:40,120 --> 02:09:43,940
And as a result, human
bias can affect AI systems,

2927
02:09:43,940 --> 02:09:46,950
including those that
supposedly recognize faces

2928
02:09:46,950 --> 02:09:48,430
in countless ways.

2929
02:09:48,430 --> 02:09:51,050
For example, if a security camera learns

2930
02:09:51,050 --> 02:09:53,600
you are a suspicious looking,
using pictures of inmates,

2931
02:09:53,600 --> 02:09:54,960
the photos will teach the AI

2932
02:09:54,960 --> 02:09:58,810
to replicate the mass incarceration
of African-American men.

2933
02:09:58,810 --> 02:10:01,990
In this way, AI can
learn to be just like us

2934
02:10:01,990 --> 02:10:03,900
exacerbating structural discrimination

2935
02:10:03,900 --> 02:10:06,290
against marginalized communities.

2936
02:10:06,290 --> 02:10:07,270
As we've heard,

2937
02:10:07,270 --> 02:10:10,240
even if facial recognition
worked without errors,

2938
02:10:10,240 --> 02:10:11,940
even if it had no bias,

2939
02:10:11,940 --> 02:10:14,070
the technology would
still remain antithetical

2940
02:10:14,070 --> 02:10:16,420
to everything the city
of Boston believes in.

2941
02:10:16,420 --> 02:10:18,690
Facial recognition
manufacturers are trying

2942
02:10:18,690 --> 02:10:21,070
to create a system that
allows everyone to be tracked

2943
02:10:21,070 --> 02:10:23,450
at every moment in perpetuity.

2944
02:10:23,450 --> 02:10:25,520
Go to a protest, he system knows,

2945
02:10:25,520 --> 02:10:28,460
go to a health facility,
it keeps a record.

2946
02:10:28,460 --> 02:10:31,621
Suddenly Bostonians lose
the freedom of movement

2947
02:10:31,621 --> 02:10:33,300
that is essential to an open society.

2948
02:10:33,300 --> 02:10:35,230
If the city fails to act soon,

2949
02:10:35,230 --> 02:10:38,200
it will only become
harder to enact reforms.

2950
02:10:38,200 --> 02:10:41,260
Companies are pressuring local
state and federal agencies

2951
02:10:41,260 --> 02:10:43,040
to adopt facial recognition tools.

2952
02:10:43,040 --> 02:10:46,460
BriefCam, the software
powering Boston's surveillance

2953
02:10:46,460 --> 02:10:49,300
camera network, has released a
new version of their software

2954
02:10:49,300 --> 02:10:50,760
that would easily integrate

2955
02:10:50,760 --> 02:10:52,900
invasive facial recognition tools.

2956
02:10:52,900 --> 02:10:54,060
Although the commissioner

2957
02:10:54,060 --> 02:10:56,700
says he will reevaluate
the new version on offer.

2958
02:10:56,700 --> 02:10:58,800
He also expressed interest in waiting

2959
02:10:58,800 --> 02:11:01,390
until the accuracy of
the technology improves

2960
02:11:01,390 --> 02:11:05,430
or making exceptions for facial
recognition use right now.

2961
02:11:05,430 --> 02:11:08,550
To definitively and
permanently avoid the issues

2962
02:11:08,550 --> 02:11:11,320
with facial recognition
that I've raised here,

2963
02:11:11,320 --> 02:11:13,703
we need comprehensive ban now.

2964
02:11:13,703 --> 02:11:16,250
And I'll conclude on a personal note.

2965
02:11:16,250 --> 02:11:17,580
I live and work in New York City,

2966
02:11:17,580 --> 02:11:20,060
but I was born in Boston
and raised in Brooklyn,.

2967
02:11:20,060 --> 02:11:23,240
it pains me to see the
current wave of protests

2968
02:11:23,240 --> 02:11:24,073
roiling the area,

2969
02:11:24,073 --> 02:11:25,160
because it demonstrates the bias

2970
02:11:25,160 --> 02:11:27,030
and unequal law enforcement practices

2971
02:11:27,030 --> 02:11:29,960
I remember from my youth,
have yet to be addressed.

2972
02:11:29,960 --> 02:11:31,840
I know that the people of the Commonwealth

2973
02:11:31,840 --> 02:11:33,220
want to see a change,

2974
02:11:33,220 --> 02:11:36,100
and I believe that the
council is on their side.

2975
02:11:36,100 --> 02:11:38,710
In practice, inaccuracies aside,

2976
02:11:38,710 --> 02:11:41,270
facial recognition systems
lead to increased stops

2977
02:11:41,270 --> 02:11:43,980
for people of color, increased stops means

2978
02:11:43,980 --> 02:11:47,030
an increase in opportunity
for police violence and abuse.

2979
02:11:47,030 --> 02:11:49,130
We must recognize that Black Lives Matter

2980
02:11:49,130 --> 02:11:50,880
and to do so we must realize

2981
02:11:50,880 --> 02:11:54,020
that technology doesn't
operate in a neutral vacuum.

2982
02:11:54,020 --> 02:11:55,780
Instead it takes on the character

2983
02:11:55,780 --> 02:11:57,960
of those building and deploying it.

2984
02:11:57,960 --> 02:11:59,750
I encouraged the council to respond

2985
02:11:59,750 --> 02:12:02,400
to their constituents
demands for police reform

2986
02:12:02,400 --> 02:12:03,910
by immediately banning the use

2987
02:12:05,460 --> 02:12:06,293
of this harmful technology in Boston.

2988
02:12:07,219 --> 02:12:09,455
Thank you.
Thank you very much Will.

2989
02:12:09,455 --> 02:12:10,433
Lizet Medina.

2990
02:12:12,670 --> 02:12:15,485
Hi, good afternoon.

2991
02:12:15,485 --> 02:12:18,850
My name is Lizet Medina, I'm
here as a private citizen.

2992
02:12:18,850 --> 02:12:22,020
I actually am pretty new to all of this.

2993
02:12:22,020 --> 02:12:23,618
This week I've found out

2994
02:12:23,618 --> 02:12:26,422
from the Student Immigration Movement,

2995
02:12:26,422 --> 02:12:28,000
kind of what's going on.

2996
02:12:28,000 --> 02:12:32,210
And I just wanted to voice
my support for this ban.

2997
02:12:32,210 --> 02:12:35,280
I think for personally, as an immigrant,

2998
02:12:35,280 --> 02:12:38,720
and speaking toward like the presence

2999
02:12:38,720 --> 02:12:41,340
of facial recognition
technology in the school system,

3000
02:12:41,340 --> 02:12:43,779
I think especially where we
have so many conversations

3001
02:12:43,779 --> 02:12:46,620
with like the school to prison pipeline.

3002
02:12:46,620 --> 02:12:48,930
This tool could be used to facilitate

3003
02:12:48,930 --> 02:12:53,430
that kind of work in racially profiling

3004
02:12:53,430 --> 02:12:55,400
and profile of our students.

3005
02:12:55,400 --> 02:12:57,920
And I think now more than ever,

3006
02:12:57,920 --> 02:13:02,470
we have this point in
time a decision to make

3007
02:13:02,470 --> 02:13:05,610
in protecting our residents of color,

3008
02:13:05,610 --> 02:13:08,940
black and brown residents and students

3009
02:13:08,940 --> 02:13:13,640
as they live in and try to
navigate the various systems

3010
02:13:13,640 --> 02:13:15,410
that are already putting pressure on them.

3011
02:13:15,410 --> 02:13:19,660
And so I think, especially
in light of recent events,

3012
02:13:19,660 --> 02:13:22,530
this is really a stand to support

3013
02:13:22,530 --> 02:13:24,721
residents of color in Boston,

3014
02:13:24,721 --> 02:13:29,721
over possible pros that
could be looked at in this.

3015
02:13:30,500 --> 02:13:32,720
And I also think it's troubling

3016
02:13:32,720 --> 02:13:35,194
that the commissioner doesn't seem

3017
02:13:35,194 --> 02:13:36,390
to be clear about What's
kind of going on with this.

3018
02:13:36,390 --> 02:13:40,960
In addition that it also isn't clear

3019
02:13:40,960 --> 02:13:45,680
that there is even a
surveillance of whether or not,

3020
02:13:45,680 --> 02:13:48,030
this could be used already,
that kind of thing.

3021
02:13:49,160 --> 02:13:50,350
So I think one, I'm just so thankful

3022
02:13:51,255 --> 02:13:52,818
that this conversation is being had,

3023
02:13:52,818 --> 02:13:54,280
that this is open to the public

3024
02:13:54,280 --> 02:13:56,597
and that I just wanted to voice my concern

3025
02:13:56,597 --> 02:13:59,957
for this being a tool for racial profiling

3026
02:13:59,957 --> 02:14:03,170
and my support in the ban.

3027
02:14:03,170 --> 02:14:04,440
Thank you.

3028
02:14:04,440 --> 02:14:05,273
Very much.

3029
02:14:06,500 --> 02:14:08,800
Next is Nathan Sheard.

3030
02:14:08,800 --> 02:14:11,515
Again I apologize if I
mispronounced your name.

3031
02:14:11,515 --> 02:14:12,970
You have two minutes Nathan, go ahead.

3032
02:14:12,970 --> 02:14:15,770
No, you said it perfectly, thank you.

3033
02:14:15,770 --> 02:14:17,270
So my name is Nathan Sheard

3034
02:14:17,270 --> 02:14:19,020
and thank you for allowing me to speak

3035
02:14:20,217 --> 02:14:21,050
on behalf of the Electronic
Frontier Foundation

3036
02:14:22,075 --> 02:14:23,079
and our 30,000 members.

3037
02:14:23,079 --> 02:14:24,554
The Electronic Frontier Foundation,

3038
02:14:24,554 --> 02:14:25,470
strongly supports legislation

3039
02:14:25,470 --> 02:14:27,300
that bans government
agencies and employees

3040
02:14:27,300 --> 02:14:29,200
from using face surveillance technology.

3041
02:14:29,200 --> 02:14:31,699
We thank the sponsors of this ordinance

3042
02:14:31,699 --> 02:14:33,876
for their attention to
this critical issue.

3043
02:14:33,876 --> 02:14:36,170
Face surveillance is profoundly
dangerous for many reasons.

3044
02:14:36,170 --> 02:14:38,080
First, in tracking our faces,

3045
02:14:38,080 --> 02:14:40,690
a unique marker that we can not change,

3046
02:14:40,690 --> 02:14:42,380
it invades our privacy.

3047
02:14:42,380 --> 02:14:45,170
Second, government use of the
technology in public places

3048
02:14:45,170 --> 02:14:46,660
will chill people from engaging

3049
02:14:46,660 --> 02:14:48,400
First Amendment protected activity.

3050
02:14:48,400 --> 02:14:50,920
Research shows and courts
have long recognized

3051
02:14:50,920 --> 02:14:52,377
that government surveillance

3052
02:14:52,377 --> 02:14:54,810
and the First Amendment
activity has a deterrent effect.

3053
02:14:54,810 --> 02:14:56,880
Third surveillance
technologies have an unfair,

3054
02:14:56,880 --> 02:15:00,000
disparate impact against
people of color, immigrants

3055
02:15:00,000 --> 02:15:01,840
and other vulnerable populations.

3056
02:15:01,840 --> 02:15:04,250
Watch lists are frequently over-inclusive,

3057
02:15:04,250 --> 02:15:06,060
error riddled and used in conjunction

3058
02:15:06,060 --> 02:15:08,110
with powerful mathematical algorithms,

3059
02:15:08,110 --> 02:15:10,360
which often amplify bias.

3060
02:15:10,360 --> 02:15:12,400
Thus space surveillance is so dangerous

3061
02:15:12,400 --> 02:15:15,830
that governments must not use it at all.

3062
02:15:15,830 --> 02:15:17,450
We support the aims of this ordinance

3063
02:15:17,450 --> 02:15:19,820
and respectfully seek three amendments

3064
02:15:19,820 --> 02:15:22,352
to show that the bill will appropriately

3065
02:15:22,352 --> 02:15:23,280
protect the rights of Boston residents.

3066
02:15:23,280 --> 02:15:25,620
First, the bill has an
exemption for evidence

3067
02:15:25,620 --> 02:15:27,050
generated by face of bills

3068
02:15:27,050 --> 02:15:29,430
that relates to investigation of crime.

3069
02:15:29,430 --> 02:15:31,840
If that respectfully ask that'd be amended

3070
02:15:31,840 --> 02:15:34,913
to prohibit the use of face
surveillance enabled evidence

3071
02:15:34,913 --> 02:15:37,770
generated by or at the request

3072
02:15:37,770 --> 02:15:40,800
of the Boston Police Department
or any Boston official.

3073
02:15:40,800 --> 02:15:42,720
Second, the private right of action

3074
02:15:42,720 --> 02:15:45,850
does not provide the shipping
for a prevailing plaintiff.

3075
02:15:45,850 --> 02:15:47,010
Without such fee shipping,

3076
02:15:47,010 --> 02:15:50,210
the only private enforcers
will be advocacy organizations

3077
02:15:50,210 --> 02:15:51,640
and wealthy individuals.

3078
02:15:51,640 --> 02:15:54,960
You have to be eff respectfully
ask that the language

3079
02:15:54,960 --> 02:15:57,800
be included toward
reasonable attorney fees

3080
02:15:57,800 --> 02:15:59,510
to a prevailing plaintiff.

3081
02:15:59,510 --> 02:16:01,610
Third, the ban extends to private sector

3082
02:16:01,610 --> 02:16:04,630
use of face surveillance conducted
with a government permit.

3083
02:16:04,630 --> 02:16:08,230
The better approach as
Kade has offered earlier,

3084
02:16:08,230 --> 02:16:13,230
is to use face surveillance is used only

3085
02:16:16,210 --> 02:16:18,210
with informed opt-in consent.

3086
02:16:18,210 --> 02:16:20,320
Thus you have to respectfully requests

3087
02:16:20,320 --> 02:16:21,730
that the language be limited

3088
02:16:21,730 --> 02:16:24,000
to prohibiting private sector permitting

3089
02:16:24,000 --> 02:16:25,720
for the use of face
surveillance recognition

3090
02:16:25,720 --> 02:16:27,560
at the government's request.

3091
02:16:27,560 --> 02:16:30,640
And closing EFF, once again
thanks to the sponsors.

3092
02:16:30,640 --> 02:16:32,915
Look forward to seeing an ordinance pass

3093
02:16:32,915 --> 02:16:34,260
that bans government use of
face surveillance in Boston

3094
02:16:34,260 --> 02:16:36,740
and will enthusiastically
support the ordinance banning

3095
02:16:36,740 --> 02:16:38,780
face recognition technology in Boston,

3096
02:16:38,780 --> 02:16:40,880
if it is amended in these ways, thank you.

3097
02:16:41,830 --> 02:16:43,700
Nathan, I just wanna make sure I notes

3098
02:16:43,700 --> 02:16:44,700
on your suggestions.

3099
02:16:46,161 --> 02:16:47,250
And I wanna make sure you had three,

3100
02:16:47,250 --> 02:16:49,423
which is the ban that used by the BPB,

3101
02:16:49,423 --> 02:16:52,865
no exemptions, period.

3102
02:16:52,865 --> 02:16:56,630
Two, that currently because [indistinct]

3103
02:16:56,630 --> 02:16:58,660
doesn't allow for fee
shifting our attorney fees,

3104
02:16:58,660 --> 02:17:01,000
it really does put it
on either individuals

3105
02:17:01,000 --> 02:17:04,280
to take it on their own
without having any kind of,

3106
02:17:04,280 --> 02:17:08,710
I guess partner care or
support that helps be funded.

3107
02:17:08,710 --> 02:17:11,990
And then three to extend
to private actors,

3108
02:17:11,990 --> 02:17:14,251
essentially down the supply chain

3109
02:17:14,251 --> 02:17:15,660
where the city of Boston
can tell private actors

3110
02:17:15,660 --> 02:17:17,711
that contract with us.

3111
02:17:17,711 --> 02:17:21,013
Because one of the reasons
I am always saying this,

3112
02:17:21,013 --> 02:17:23,560
one of the issues is how far we can go.

3113
02:17:23,560 --> 02:17:25,130
I mean, we can't regulate Facebook,

3114
02:17:25,130 --> 02:17:27,220
but we can regulate where money goes.

3115
02:17:27,220 --> 02:17:28,903
So I'm assuming spot that.

3116
02:17:29,930 --> 02:17:32,140
Yeah, so just to reiterate,

3117
02:17:32,140 --> 02:17:35,080
so the First Amendment
that we would suggest

3118
02:17:35,080 --> 02:17:37,393
is that in right now,

3119
02:17:38,359 --> 02:17:40,210
there's an exclusion
for forever for evidence

3120
02:17:40,210 --> 02:17:41,940
and Kade spoke earlier

3121
02:17:41,940 --> 02:17:43,600
to the fact that that's in reference to,

3122
02:17:43,600 --> 02:17:45,150
if they receive something
from the federal government

3123
02:17:45,150 --> 02:17:46,630
or one to post or what have you.

3124
02:17:46,630 --> 02:17:48,970
But to make sure that it's amended

3125
02:17:48,970 --> 02:17:50,867
to tighten that up a bit and say that,

3126
02:17:50,867 --> 02:17:54,500
as long as that
information isn't requested

3127
02:17:54,500 --> 02:17:56,780
or created at the request
of the Boston police forums,

3128
02:17:56,780 --> 02:17:57,830
that's the first one.

3129
02:17:58,995 --> 02:17:59,993
The second one is the fee shipping.

3130
02:18:00,911 --> 02:18:01,970
So that it's not just the EFF and the ACLU

3131
02:18:01,970 --> 02:18:04,591
and wealthy individuals
that have the power

3132
02:18:04,591 --> 02:18:06,700
to make sure that it's enforced.

3133
02:18:06,700 --> 02:18:08,810
So folks can find
attorneys to support them

3134
02:18:08,810 --> 02:18:12,350
because the attorneys will
be compensated for that time.

3135
02:18:12,350 --> 02:18:14,050
And finally, on the third.

3136
02:18:14,050 --> 02:18:16,450
And I think that this speaks
to your greater question,

3137
02:18:16,450 --> 02:18:20,276
right now it's it prohibits
the offering of a permit

3138
02:18:20,276 --> 02:18:25,095
to a private company, agency
person, what have you,

3139
02:18:25,095 --> 02:18:27,270
whereas we would tightened up to say that

3140
02:18:27,270 --> 02:18:29,150
that a permit could be provided

3141
02:18:29,150 --> 02:18:31,448
as long it wasn't being provided

3142
02:18:31,448 --> 02:18:34,432
for face surveillance to
be collected at the behest

3143
02:18:34,432 --> 02:18:38,090
or at the request of the
Boston Police Department.

3144
02:18:38,090 --> 02:18:38,990
So really making sure

3145
02:18:38,990 --> 02:18:41,534
that we're speaking back to the fact

3146
02:18:41,534 --> 02:18:44,340
that like private use
would be better protected

3147
02:18:44,340 --> 02:18:46,050
by something similar to

3148
02:18:46,050 --> 02:18:48,470
the Biometric Information
Privacy Act in Illinois

3149
02:18:48,470 --> 02:18:52,260
that requires; informed,
opt-in and concept

3150
02:18:52,260 --> 02:18:53,380
from the individual,

3151
02:18:53,380 --> 02:18:55,135
rather than simply saying

3152
02:18:55,135 --> 02:18:56,643
that no private doctor can do space.

3153
02:18:58,400 --> 02:18:59,607
Thank you.

3154
02:18:59,607 --> 02:19:01,416
That was a great clarification.

3155
02:19:01,416 --> 02:19:03,576
I'm gonna go now to our next speakers.

3156
02:19:03,576 --> 02:19:05,490
Thank you very much.

3157
02:19:05,490 --> 02:19:10,490
I have a Sabrina Barosso,
Elmeda and Christina Vasquez.

3158
02:19:13,290 --> 02:19:17,263
So if we have.

3159
02:19:18,470 --> 02:19:20,970
Hi folks, thank you so much.

3160
02:19:20,970 --> 02:19:23,580
Just to let folks know,
Christina is not with us.

3161
02:19:23,580 --> 02:19:26,610
Some folks had to leave
because they have to work,

3162
02:19:26,610 --> 02:19:29,120
but so hi everyone, hi city councilors.

3163
02:19:29,120 --> 02:19:30,690
My name is Sabrina Barroso.

3164
02:19:30,690 --> 02:19:33,870
I am the lead organizer for
the Student Immigrant Movement.

3165
02:19:33,870 --> 02:19:36,870
The first undocumented
immigrant youth led organization

3166
02:19:36,870 --> 02:19:38,570
in the state of Massachusetts.

3167
02:19:38,570 --> 02:19:40,920
We believe that all
young people are powerful

3168
02:19:40,920 --> 02:19:42,920
and that when you are
supported and have space

3169
02:19:42,920 --> 02:19:43,900
and investment to grow,

3170
02:19:43,900 --> 02:19:46,121
they flourished into the
leaders of today and tomorrow.

3171
02:19:46,121 --> 02:19:48,800
At SIM, we are invested in protecting

3172
02:19:48,800 --> 02:19:50,930
and working on behalf of
the undocumented youth

3173
02:19:50,930 --> 02:19:53,018
and for families of Massachusetts.

3174
02:19:53,018 --> 02:19:55,140
That's why I'm here with you all today

3175
02:19:55,140 --> 02:19:56,150
and I would like to make clear

3176
02:19:56,150 --> 02:19:59,476
that we must prohibit the
use of facial recognition,

3177
02:19:59,476 --> 02:20:01,670
technology and software
in the city of Boston.

3178
02:20:01,670 --> 02:20:03,740
For far too long the
Boston Police Department

3179
02:20:03,740 --> 02:20:06,880
has been allowed to have full flexibility

3180
02:20:06,880 --> 02:20:10,030
and freewill over how the police
and surveil our communities

3181
02:20:10,030 --> 02:20:11,855
and the consequences are devastating.

3182
02:20:11,855 --> 02:20:15,290
Our people are being criminalized
and funneled into prisons,

3183
02:20:15,290 --> 02:20:17,330
detention and deportation.

3184
02:20:17,330 --> 02:20:19,630
We need full community
control over the police.

3185
02:20:19,630 --> 02:20:22,255
And this is a key move to
bringing power to our people.

3186
02:20:22,255 --> 02:20:24,420
Right now, there are no laws

3187
02:20:24,420 --> 02:20:27,000
that control what the BPD
can purchase for surveillance

3188
02:20:27,000 --> 02:20:29,300
or how they use it and
when I learned this,

3189
02:20:29,300 --> 02:20:31,730
I was scared because I
thought about the history

3190
02:20:31,730 --> 02:20:34,280
between the BPD and families like mine.

3191
02:20:34,280 --> 02:20:36,219
And I thought about the people that I love

3192
02:20:36,219 --> 02:20:39,300
and that the people I care about.

3193
02:20:39,300 --> 02:20:41,590
And I thought about the people
who are constantly harassed

3194
02:20:41,590 --> 02:20:44,660
and targeted by law enforcement
simply for existing.

3195
02:20:44,660 --> 02:20:45,640
So if you ask me,

3196
02:20:45,640 --> 02:20:47,730
facial recognition is not to be trusted

3197
02:20:48,757 --> 02:20:50,319
in the hands of law enforcement,

3198
02:20:50,319 --> 02:20:51,950
that tracks, monitors, hyper surveils,

3199
02:20:51,950 --> 02:20:53,490
black and brown communities,

3200
02:20:53,490 --> 02:20:55,640
and that puts immigrants and activists,

3201
02:20:55,640 --> 02:20:59,903
youth under constant
scrutiny and criminalization.

3202
02:20:59,903 --> 02:21:02,830
Councilors, would you really
trust a police department

3203
02:21:02,830 --> 02:21:04,715
that shares information to I.C.E?

3204
02:21:04,715 --> 02:21:07,890
That's share student
information to I.C.E as well.

3205
02:21:07,890 --> 02:21:10,220
That has led to the
deportation of students

3206
02:21:10,220 --> 02:21:13,899
that exchange emails saying
happy hunting with I.C.E.

3207
02:21:13,899 --> 02:21:16,060
And that has historically targeted

3208
02:21:16,060 --> 02:21:19,130
black and brown youth to
invade their personal space,

3209
02:21:19,130 --> 02:21:22,153
their bodies and their
privacy with stop and frisk.

3210
02:21:22,153 --> 02:21:24,950
There is not a shame to separate youth

3211
02:21:24,950 --> 02:21:27,160
from their and their families
from their communities

3212
02:21:27,160 --> 02:21:30,480
and then end up pinning,
injustices and crimes on us.

3213
02:21:30,480 --> 02:21:33,980
The BPD says that they don't
use spatial surveillance now,

3214
02:21:33,980 --> 02:21:35,650
but they have access to it.

3215
02:21:35,650 --> 02:21:39,058
And they have a $414
million budget to buy it.

3216
02:21:39,058 --> 02:21:41,390
Right now, our communities need access

3217
02:21:41,390 --> 02:21:43,977
to funding for healthcare,
housing and so many other things

3218
02:21:43,977 --> 02:21:45,340
and the list goes on.

3219
02:21:45,340 --> 02:21:47,550
For years, residents of
Boston have been demanding

3220
02:21:47,550 --> 02:21:49,410
to fund things that truly matter to them

3221
02:21:49,410 --> 02:21:51,300
and we have to invest in things

3222
02:21:51,300 --> 02:21:53,810
that are not face surveillance
that doesn't even work

3223
02:21:53,810 --> 02:21:56,210
and is irrelevant to
keeping our community safe.

3224
02:21:56,210 --> 02:21:59,799
We must invest in intentional
restorative justice practices,

3225
02:21:59,799 --> 02:22:02,520
healthcare, mental health and resources

3226
02:22:02,520 --> 02:22:04,580
to prevent violence and distress.

3227
02:22:04,580 --> 02:22:07,010
Facial surveillance would
end privacy as we know it

3228
02:22:07,010 --> 02:22:09,493
and completely throw off the balance

3229
02:22:09,493 --> 02:22:11,160
and power between people
and their government.

3230
02:22:11,160 --> 02:22:13,400
Listen to youth and
listening to our community,

3231
02:22:13,400 --> 02:22:16,320
and let's follow the lead of young people

3232
02:22:16,320 --> 02:22:18,700
who are addressing the deeper issue

3233
02:22:18,700 --> 02:22:20,510
of what is to criminalize our people

3234
02:22:20,510 --> 02:22:23,180
and putting the power in
the hands of the people,

3235
02:22:23,180 --> 02:22:26,180
especially when it comes
to governing surveillance.

3236
02:22:26,180 --> 02:22:27,760
Thank you all so much.

3237
02:22:27,760 --> 02:22:28,917
Thank you very much

3238
02:22:28,917 --> 02:22:30,716
and it'S like Christina's
not available, Sabrina.

3239
02:22:30,716 --> 02:22:33,533
Yeah, she's not available.

3240
02:22:33,533 --> 02:22:38,533
Okay, Ismleda.

3241
02:22:41,620 --> 02:22:46,620
I'm Ismleda and a member of
the City Media Movements.

3242
02:22:48,890 --> 02:22:50,640
Today I'm here to testify in support

3243
02:22:50,640 --> 02:22:53,258
of ban in facial recognition
technology in Boston.

3244
02:22:53,258 --> 02:22:56,200
This will establish a
ban of government use

3245
02:22:56,200 --> 02:22:58,370
of face surveillance
in the city of Boston.

3246
02:22:58,370 --> 02:23:01,950
Boston must pass this
ordinance to join Springfield,

3247
02:23:01,950 --> 02:23:04,880
Somerville, Cambridge,
Brooklyn and North Hampton

3248
02:23:04,880 --> 02:23:07,453
in protecting racial justice
and freedom of speech.

3249
02:23:07,453 --> 02:23:10,998
The feather of study
published in December 2019,

3250
02:23:10,998 --> 02:23:13,355
found that face recognition algorithms

3251
02:23:13,355 --> 02:23:15,410
are much more likely to fail

3252
02:23:15,410 --> 02:23:17,737
when attempted to identify
the faces of people of color,

3253
02:23:17,737 --> 02:23:20,400
children, the elderly and women.

3254
02:23:20,400 --> 02:23:22,921
That means that technology
only reliably works

3255
02:23:22,921 --> 02:23:26,758
on middle aged white men.

3256
02:23:26,758 --> 02:23:29,800
It very small fraction
of busters precedents.

3257
02:23:31,077 --> 02:23:33,060
As a citizen of Boston,

3258
02:23:33,060 --> 02:23:35,260
it is clear to me that
this type of technology

3259
02:23:35,260 --> 02:23:37,230
is not okay to use in our communities.

3260
02:23:37,230 --> 02:23:39,270
The fact that this technology

3261
02:23:39,270 --> 02:23:42,840
is used to control specifically
in communities of color,

3262
02:23:42,840 --> 02:23:45,600
makes my family and me feel unsafe,

3263
02:23:45,600 --> 02:23:46,833
as well as the other families

3264
02:23:46,833 --> 02:23:48,630
that live within this communities.

3265
02:23:48,630 --> 02:23:51,850
Black and brown kids
are put into databases

3266
02:23:51,850 --> 02:23:55,290
that are used against them
without redness or reason.

3267
02:23:55,290 --> 02:23:57,570
This interrupts our education
and limits our future.

3268
02:23:57,570 --> 02:23:59,870
Kids shouldn't be criminalized
or feeling unsafe.

3269
02:23:59,870 --> 02:24:03,120
Black and brown kids should
be able to walk on the street

3270
02:24:03,120 --> 02:24:07,250
without the fear of knowing
what's going to happen.

3271
02:24:07,250 --> 02:24:09,873
And it shows how this surveillance

3272
02:24:09,873 --> 02:24:12,387
is used to target black
and brown communities.

3273
02:24:12,387 --> 02:24:14,530
The racial profiling in technology

3274
02:24:14,530 --> 02:24:17,430
is one of the many forms
of systematic racism.

3275
02:24:17,430 --> 02:24:20,730
Immigrant youth in this
city do not trust the police

3276
02:24:20,730 --> 02:24:23,490
because we know that they
are very close with I.C.E.

3277
02:24:23,490 --> 02:24:26,507
We know that they sent a
student information to I.C.E,

3278
02:24:26,507 --> 02:24:30,317
and this has led to the
deportation of junk people

3279
02:24:30,317 --> 02:24:32,565
and pains our communities.

3280
02:24:32,565 --> 02:24:34,982
[indistinct]

3281
02:24:40,320 --> 02:24:45,320
BPD, cameras with surveillance
and criminalization of us.

3282
02:24:45,450 --> 02:24:46,700
It's not right.

3283
02:24:46,700 --> 02:24:48,290
Everyone on the council at some point

3284
02:24:48,290 --> 02:24:50,440
has talked about supporting young people

3285
02:24:52,068 --> 02:24:53,080
and young people being our future leaders.

3286
02:24:53,080 --> 02:24:54,060
We are leaders right now,

3287
02:24:54,060 --> 02:24:57,640
we are telling you to do
what everyone knows is right.

3288
02:24:57,640 --> 02:25:00,250
By preventing the use of facial
recognition surveillance,

3289
02:25:00,250 --> 02:25:03,490
we can do more to protect
immigrant families in Boston.

3290
02:25:03,490 --> 02:25:05,080
Stop selling youth and families out.

3291
02:25:05,080 --> 02:25:07,132
Let's give power to people

3292
02:25:07,132 --> 02:25:09,130
and take this first step in
addressing the problem we have

3293
02:25:09,130 --> 02:25:10,460
with law enforcement surveillance

3294
02:25:10,460 --> 02:25:12,760
and criminalization or people
by surveillance system.

3295
02:25:12,760 --> 02:25:13,940
Thank you very much

3296
02:25:15,154 --> 02:25:17,350
Next up, the next group
of folks we have are,

3297
02:25:17,350 --> 02:25:22,350
Sherlandy Pardieu, Eli Harmon,
Natalie Diaz and Jose Gomez.

3298
02:25:27,900 --> 02:25:30,080
So is Sherlandy available.

3299
02:25:32,380 --> 02:25:36,243
I see that person in
the waiting room, sorry.

3300
02:25:47,372 --> 02:25:50,289
well, we'll go ahead and go to Eli.

3301
02:25:53,002 --> 02:25:55,360
I think I see right now, ready to go

3302
02:25:55,360 --> 02:25:58,993
and then we'll come back to Sherlandy,

3303
02:26:00,200 --> 02:26:02,118
Eli you have two minutes.

3304
02:26:02,118 --> 02:26:03,500
Oh, thank you so much.

3305
02:26:03,500 --> 02:26:04,550
Oh, who's speaking?

3306
02:26:05,559 --> 02:26:06,980
oh, sorry, this is Eli.

3307
02:26:06,980 --> 02:26:08,290
Okay, very well.

3308
02:26:08,290 --> 02:26:09,310
Thank you so much.

3309
02:26:09,310 --> 02:26:11,642
My name is Eli Harmon,
I live in Mission Hill.

3310
02:26:11,642 --> 02:26:15,350
I've been doing work with the
Student Immigrant Movement.

3311
02:26:15,350 --> 02:26:18,160
I'm testifying on behalf of them today,

3312
02:26:18,160 --> 02:26:20,010
in support of the ordinance.

3313
02:26:20,010 --> 02:26:21,250
The issue of police surveillance

3314
02:26:21,250 --> 02:26:23,000
is enormously important to people

3315
02:26:23,000 --> 02:26:24,760
all across the city of Boston

3316
02:26:24,760 --> 02:26:27,720
though it's of particular
concern to communities of color,

3317
02:26:27,720 --> 02:26:29,710
which it overwhelmingly targets.

3318
02:26:29,710 --> 02:26:31,470
A study done by MIT research

3319
02:26:31,470 --> 02:26:33,250
showed this type of
surveillance technology

3320
02:26:33,250 --> 02:26:35,370
would be far less accurate
for people of color.

3321
02:26:35,370 --> 02:26:39,680
And in fact, it was inaccurate
for 35% of black women

3322
02:26:39,680 --> 02:26:43,160
and was most accurate for white adult men.

3323
02:26:43,160 --> 02:26:45,844
Law enforcement today, already of course,

3324
02:26:45,844 --> 02:26:48,960
overwhelmingly targets
black and brown communities.

3325
02:26:48,960 --> 02:26:50,010
And this type of technology

3326
02:26:50,010 --> 02:26:52,581
is likely to only make
this more severe case.

3327
02:26:52,581 --> 02:26:54,570
Additionally this type of technology

3328
02:26:54,570 --> 02:26:56,943
is a complete violation
of people's privacy.

3329
02:26:56,943 --> 02:26:58,730
There are no regulations with regard

3330
02:26:58,730 --> 02:27:00,150
to the extent to which law enforcement

3331
02:27:00,150 --> 02:27:01,600
can use this technology.

3332
02:27:01,600 --> 02:27:03,530
And it has been used as an abuse of power

3333
02:27:03,530 --> 02:27:05,680
by government officials in
order to track down immigrants,

3334
02:27:05,680 --> 02:27:07,900
people of color and activists.

3335
02:27:07,900 --> 02:27:09,540
Finally, lots of money goes into funding

3336
02:27:09,540 --> 02:27:10,700
this surveillance technology,

3337
02:27:10,700 --> 02:27:12,430
and for the reasons previously stated

3338
02:27:12,430 --> 02:27:15,680
this technology in no way
keeps our communities safe

3339
02:27:15,680 --> 02:27:17,370
and the money that currently funds it,

3340
02:27:17,370 --> 02:27:19,030
could be put into much better places,

3341
02:27:19,030 --> 02:27:21,030
such as creating
affordable housing for all,

3342
02:27:21,030 --> 02:27:23,539
fully funding the Boston public schools,

3343
02:27:23,539 --> 02:27:27,060
creating equitable healthcare

3344
02:27:27,060 --> 02:27:29,550
and other places which
would actually be effective

3345
02:27:29,550 --> 02:27:31,003
in bringing down crime rates.

3346
02:27:32,300 --> 02:27:34,720
Many cities that neighbor
Boston, including Somerville,

3347
02:27:34,720 --> 02:27:36,730
Brooklyn, Cambridge and Springfield,

3348
02:27:36,730 --> 02:27:39,060
have chosen to ban facial surveillance

3349
02:27:39,060 --> 02:27:41,240
because they understand
that it is dangerous

3350
02:27:41,240 --> 02:27:43,030
and harmful to communities of color.

3351
02:27:43,030 --> 02:27:44,407
It is a violation of people's privacy

3352
02:27:44,407 --> 02:27:48,240
and that money currently being
used to fund that technology

3353
02:27:48,240 --> 02:27:50,060
would be better spent in places

3354
02:27:50,060 --> 02:27:52,420
that actually improve lives in Boston.

3355
02:27:52,420 --> 02:27:53,908
For these reasons,

3356
02:27:53,908 --> 02:27:55,070
I asked the council to pass a prohibition

3357
02:27:55,070 --> 02:27:57,600
of the use of facial
recognition surveillance

3358
02:27:57,600 --> 02:27:59,130
and give the community control

3359
02:27:59,130 --> 02:28:00,910
over surveillance technology and usage.

3360
02:28:00,910 --> 02:28:02,340
Thank you so much.

3361
02:28:02,340 --> 02:28:04,237
Thank you very much.

3362
02:28:04,237 --> 02:28:06,473
I do see Sherlandy

3363
02:28:08,867 --> 02:28:10,470
I'm here.

3364
02:28:10,470 --> 02:28:12,547
Okay, you have two minutes Sherlandy.

3365
02:28:19,540 --> 02:28:22,690
I am writing on behalf of SIM
in support of the ordinance

3366
02:28:22,690 --> 02:28:25,490
banning facial recognition
technology in Boston.

3367
02:28:25,490 --> 02:28:28,280
I urge my city of Boston
to pass this ordinance

3368
02:28:28,280 --> 02:28:30,250
to join other cities in Massachusetts,

3369
02:28:30,250 --> 02:28:33,270
like Springfield, Somerville,
Cambridge, Brooklyn

3370
02:28:33,270 --> 02:28:36,370
and Northern and putting
the community power

3371
02:28:36,370 --> 02:28:37,840
before the police.

3372
02:28:37,840 --> 02:28:40,370
The city of Boston,
the residents, families

3373
02:28:40,370 --> 02:28:42,510
and youth from Boston,
deserve transparency,

3374
02:28:42,510 --> 02:28:44,230
respect and control.

3375
02:28:44,230 --> 02:28:46,424
A ban on facial surveillance technology

3376
02:28:46,424 --> 02:28:48,218
is important in the city of Boston

3377
02:28:48,218 --> 02:28:50,298
because this technology is dangerous

3378
02:28:50,298 --> 02:28:54,116
and it leads to serious
mistrust in the community.

3379
02:28:54,116 --> 02:28:57,703
Face surveillance is
proven to be less accurate

3380
02:28:57,703 --> 02:29:01,040
for people of darker skin.

3381
02:29:01,040 --> 02:29:04,379
Black people already face extreme levels

3382
02:29:04,379 --> 02:29:06,370
of police violence and harassment.

3383
02:29:06,370 --> 02:29:09,075
The racial bias and face surveillance

3384
02:29:09,075 --> 02:29:11,420
will put lives in danger.

3385
02:29:11,420 --> 02:29:13,730
But even if accurate,

3386
02:29:13,730 --> 02:29:15,930
we should still be doing all that we can

3387
02:29:15,930 --> 02:29:19,730
to avoid a future where every
time we go to the doctor,

3388
02:29:19,730 --> 02:29:22,340
a place of worship or protest,

3389
02:29:22,340 --> 02:29:23,920
the government is scanning our face

3390
02:29:23,920 --> 02:29:26,060
and recording our movements.

3391
02:29:26,060 --> 02:29:27,780
We already know that law enforcement

3392
02:29:27,780 --> 02:29:30,830
is constantly sharing
and misusing information.

3393
02:29:30,830 --> 02:29:32,600
What would happen to our people

3394
02:29:32,600 --> 02:29:35,250
when we are already under
constant surveillance

3395
02:29:35,250 --> 02:29:37,150
and criminalization.

3396
02:29:37,150 --> 02:29:38,540
Using face surveillance,

3397
02:29:38,540 --> 02:29:40,630
the government could begin to identify

3398
02:29:40,630 --> 02:29:44,350
and keep a list of every
person at a protests.

3399
02:29:44,350 --> 02:29:45,774
People who are driving

3400
02:29:45,774 --> 02:29:48,530
or who are walking the
street every single day

3401
02:29:48,530 --> 02:29:52,520
across the city on a
ongoing automatic basis,

3402
02:29:52,520 --> 02:29:54,850
it would keep the same
harmful surveillance going,

3403
02:29:54,850 --> 02:29:57,940
like what happened with the
use of [indistinct] database.

3404
02:29:57,940 --> 02:30:01,633
It would criminalize anyone
to make a move in our city.

3405
02:30:06,403 --> 02:30:09,550
If we want this city to be safe,

3406
02:30:09,550 --> 02:30:12,340
we need to put our
money where our mouth is

3407
02:30:12,340 --> 02:30:16,210
and invest in practice
such as restorative justice

3408
02:30:16,210 --> 02:30:18,310
to help restore or community.

3409
02:30:18,310 --> 02:30:20,476
Facial surveillance is not the answer.

3410
02:30:20,476 --> 02:30:23,580
If anything, it is distracting

3411
02:30:23,580 --> 02:30:26,540
or addressing our real concern

3412
02:30:26,540 --> 02:30:28,610
about safety in our communities.

3413
02:30:28,610 --> 02:30:31,980
I urge you to prohibit the
use of facial surveillance

3414
02:30:31,980 --> 02:30:34,490
in the city of Boston,

3415
02:30:34,490 --> 02:30:38,130
because we cannot allow law
enforcement to target black

3416
02:30:38,130 --> 02:30:42,270
and brown immigrants, activists
and community members.

3417
02:30:42,270 --> 02:30:43,820
Thank you so much for your time.

3418
02:30:43,820 --> 02:30:44,980
Thank you very much.

3419
02:30:44,980 --> 02:30:47,102
I want to say thank
you to all of the youth

3420
02:30:47,102 --> 02:30:51,430
who have testified and
will testify at SIM,

3421
02:30:51,430 --> 02:30:53,740
all those folks showing up, you are...

3422
02:30:53,740 --> 02:30:55,150
I just wanna say thank you so much

3423
02:30:55,150 --> 02:30:57,858
on behalf of the city
council, you're our future

3424
02:30:57,858 --> 02:30:59,680
and you're doing an amazing job.

3425
02:30:59,680 --> 02:31:03,030
I have a Natalie Diaz and then Jose Gomez.

3426
02:31:03,030 --> 02:31:06,670
I see the Emily Reif
who had signed up before

3427
02:31:06,670 --> 02:31:08,670
might also be available.

3428
02:31:08,670 --> 02:31:10,420
So those next three names,

3429
02:31:10,420 --> 02:31:12,473
I think Natalie may no longer be with us.

3430
02:31:15,110 --> 02:31:17,860
Okay, is Jose available?

3431
02:31:17,860 --> 02:31:20,120
Yes.
CHAIR: Two minutes.

3432
02:31:21,300 --> 02:31:22,210
Hi everyone.

3433
02:31:22,210 --> 02:31:26,930
I'm here on behalf of
SIM to testify in favor

3434
02:31:26,930 --> 02:31:30,337
of the ban on facial
recognition software in Boston.

3435
02:31:30,337 --> 02:31:33,830
I am an MIT alumni,

3436
02:31:33,830 --> 02:31:35,760
working as a software engineer in Boston

3437
02:31:35,760 --> 02:31:38,660
and I'm a DACA recipient as well.

3438
02:31:38,660 --> 02:31:41,491
And I wanted to tell you for your time

3439
02:31:41,491 --> 02:31:43,438
that as a software engineer working in AI

3440
02:31:43,438 --> 02:31:44,750
and machine learning, enabled robots,

3441
02:31:44,750 --> 02:31:46,780
that the software use
for facial recognition

3442
02:31:46,780 --> 02:31:48,053
is far from perfect.

3443
02:31:49,090 --> 02:31:51,716
In fact, as Joy found
in others have noted,

3444
02:31:51,716 --> 02:31:53,940
one in three black women is likely

3445
02:31:53,940 --> 02:31:56,080
to be misclassified by technology.

3446
02:31:56,080 --> 02:31:58,170
And our own federal government has found

3447
02:31:58,170 --> 02:32:00,050
that the face recognition algorithms

3448
02:32:00,050 --> 02:32:01,110
were more likely to fail

3449
02:32:01,110 --> 02:32:03,715
when attempting to identify
faces of people of color,

3450
02:32:03,715 --> 02:32:06,176
children, elderly and women.

3451
02:32:06,176 --> 02:32:10,090
This software after all
is written by people.

3452
02:32:10,090 --> 02:32:12,736
And this is inherently filled
with mistakes and bias,

3453
02:32:12,736 --> 02:32:16,630
despite the detailed
quality assurance processes

3454
02:32:16,630 --> 02:32:18,970
or production level software undergoes.

3455
02:32:18,970 --> 02:32:21,830
This is an accepted fact
in software industry,

3456
02:32:21,830 --> 02:32:23,540
no matter how good your software is

3457
02:32:23,540 --> 02:32:25,350
or the testing process is,

3458
02:32:25,350 --> 02:32:27,434
bugs in the software will always exist.

3459
02:32:27,434 --> 02:32:30,780
Consequently, the use of
facial recognition technology

3460
02:32:30,780 --> 02:32:33,640
by government entities
especially the police departments

3461
02:32:33,640 --> 02:32:35,830
must be banned as a consequence of errors

3462
02:32:35,830 --> 02:32:38,460
in the technology or if life and death.

3463
02:32:38,460 --> 02:32:41,510
The false identification by
a facial recognition software

3464
02:32:41,510 --> 02:32:43,853
could lead to an unwarranted confrontation

3465
02:32:43,853 --> 02:32:45,810
with the police department.

3466
02:32:45,810 --> 02:32:48,320
The seemingly small error in
facial recognition software

3467
02:32:48,320 --> 02:32:50,140
may not mean much to you,

3468
02:32:50,140 --> 02:32:54,150
but as an undocumented
immigrant and a person of color,

3469
02:32:54,150 --> 02:32:56,040
any confrontation with the police

3470
02:32:56,040 --> 02:32:58,123
could mean deportation or even my life.

3471
02:32:59,066 --> 02:33:02,130
The police have a record
of systemic racial bias

3472
02:33:02,130 --> 02:33:04,410
leading into the deaths
of thousands of people.

3473
02:33:04,410 --> 02:33:06,880
Government entities, special police forces

3474
02:33:06,880 --> 02:33:09,800
do not need any more tools
to further their racial bias

3475
02:33:09,800 --> 02:33:12,609
and consequently there's
a stomach murdering

3476
02:33:12,609 --> 02:33:13,980
of the very people
they're meant to protect.

3477
02:33:13,980 --> 02:33:15,460
I encourage you to press pause

3478
02:33:15,460 --> 02:33:17,767
on these face surveillance
by government entities

3479
02:33:17,767 --> 02:33:21,503
in the city of Boston, by
supporting this crucial ban.

3480
02:33:24,127 --> 02:33:28,620
Thank you very much, after
Jose I think we had...

3481
02:33:33,080 --> 02:33:38,080
After Jose we had Emily,
Emily Reif has rejoined us.

3482
02:33:38,300 --> 02:33:42,173
She was part of the original
first set we called, Emily.

3483
02:33:45,270 --> 02:33:46,680
EMILY: Hello, sorry.

3484
02:33:46,680 --> 02:33:48,530
Can you hear me?
Yep, two minutes.

3485
02:33:49,621 --> 02:33:53,151
Sorry about that, I was
having internet issues.

3486
02:33:53,151 --> 02:33:55,000
So my name is Emily Reif

3487
02:33:55,000 --> 02:33:57,390
and I work at a machine
learning research at Google.

3488
02:33:57,390 --> 02:33:58,430
Although of course my views are my own

3489
02:33:58,430 --> 02:34:00,490
and I'm here as a citizen.

3490
02:34:00,490 --> 02:34:02,060
Yeah, I strongly support the ban

3491
02:34:02,060 --> 02:34:03,857
on facial recognition technology

3492
02:34:03,857 --> 02:34:05,860
and many people have said similar things

3493
02:34:05,860 --> 02:34:09,398
to what I'm about to say
and much better words.

3494
02:34:09,398 --> 02:34:13,079
I just wanted to reiterate on...

3495
02:34:13,079 --> 02:34:14,850
Even when working correctly,

3496
02:34:14,850 --> 02:34:17,119
there are so many major privacy

3497
02:34:17,119 --> 02:34:20,220
with these technologies and by definition,

3498
02:34:20,220 --> 02:34:22,020
they're designed to track
us wherever and whenever

3499
02:34:22,020 --> 02:34:26,000
we're in public spaces and
to aggregate this information

3500
02:34:26,000 --> 02:34:28,070
and having those kinds
of extreme surveillance

3501
02:34:28,070 --> 02:34:30,930
is not only kind of horrifying
at a personal level,

3502
02:34:30,930 --> 02:34:32,590
but it will also fundamentally change

3503
02:34:32,590 --> 02:34:34,380
the way that we go about our daily lives

3504
02:34:34,380 --> 02:34:36,620
and operate as a democratic society.

3505
02:34:36,620 --> 02:34:40,000
And others have already cited
some of the research on this.

3506
02:34:40,000 --> 02:34:42,956
It's a well-documented
phenomenon, not a good one.

3507
02:34:42,956 --> 02:34:47,100
And so that's all about
facial recognition technology

3508
02:34:47,100 --> 02:34:48,080
when it's working perfectly.

3509
02:34:48,080 --> 02:34:50,810
But again, as people have noted

3510
02:34:50,810 --> 02:34:53,160
that's so far from the truth.

3511
02:34:53,160 --> 02:34:55,530
Yeah, there's a ton of
research on this by the ACLU,

3512
02:34:55,530 --> 02:34:58,574
and Joy who spoke earlier

3513
02:34:58,574 --> 02:35:00,720
and I've seen this in my own research.

3514
02:35:00,720 --> 02:35:03,834
Our team's research is
related to these areas.

3515
02:35:03,834 --> 02:35:08,313
That these models are just
totally not reliable for data

3516
02:35:08,313 --> 02:35:10,100
that is different than
what they're trained on.

3517
02:35:10,100 --> 02:35:13,060
And that these inaccuracy
don't make it any less,

3518
02:35:13,060 --> 02:35:15,570
I mean, one might say
like, oh, so it makes it,

3519
02:35:15,570 --> 02:35:17,840
potentially less dangerous,
but it makes it much,

3520
02:35:17,840 --> 02:35:20,770
much more dangerous when the inaccuracy

3521
02:35:20,770 --> 02:35:22,240
has just reinforced the biases,

3522
02:35:22,240 --> 02:35:24,180
that disparities that
have always been there

3523
02:35:24,180 --> 02:35:26,410
in the way that different
groups are surveyed

3524
02:35:26,410 --> 02:35:28,793
and policed and incarcerated.

3525
02:35:28,793 --> 02:35:32,908
And we saw with, with
Briana Hiller's death

3526
02:35:32,908 --> 02:35:35,460
that thinking that you're attacking

3527
02:35:35,460 --> 02:35:36,800
or that you're entering the right house,

3528
02:35:36,800 --> 02:35:38,930
and if you are wrong about that,

3529
02:35:38,930 --> 02:35:42,770
there's just horrible, an
unspeakable consequences

3530
02:35:42,770 --> 02:35:47,770
And yeah, we can't possibly risk that

3531
02:35:47,800 --> 02:35:49,900
and that's not a road we should remotely

3532
02:35:49,900 --> 02:35:52,123
think about going down, thank you.

3533
02:35:53,812 --> 02:35:55,830
That's perfectly on time.

3534
02:35:55,830 --> 02:35:58,920
I'm just gonna go down the list

3535
02:35:58,920 --> 02:36:03,920
and also call on Christian
De Leon, Clara Ruis,

3536
02:36:10,720 --> 02:36:13,193
Diana Serrano and Oliver De Leon.

3537
02:36:20,253 --> 02:36:22,560
Are those folks are available.

3538
02:36:22,560 --> 02:36:23,443
I see Christian.

3539
02:36:27,851 --> 02:36:29,500
Christian you may start,
you have two minutes.

3540
02:36:30,754 --> 02:36:33,935
[indistinct]

3541
02:36:33,935 --> 02:36:36,330
You have to turn off one
computer and on your phone

3542
02:36:36,330 --> 02:36:38,951
or something, you're
gonna have to turn off

3543
02:36:38,951 --> 02:36:39,784
one of the devices.

3544
02:36:39,784 --> 02:36:41,230
CHRISTIAN: Can you hear me fine now?

3545
02:36:41,230 --> 02:36:42,480
Much better, thank you.

3546
02:36:45,450 --> 02:36:47,988
CHRISTIAN: My name is Christian De Leon,

3547
02:36:47,988 --> 02:36:49,752
I'm here today as a member

3548
02:36:49,752 --> 02:36:50,585
of the Student Immigrant Movement

3549
02:36:51,628 --> 02:36:53,320
in support of banning facial
recognition in Boston.

3550
02:36:53,320 --> 02:36:56,280
Face surveillance is not only
a huge invasion of privacy,

3551
02:36:56,280 --> 02:36:58,580
but in the wrong hands can be used

3552
02:36:58,580 --> 02:37:00,680
to even further oppress minorities.

3553
02:37:00,680 --> 02:37:03,350
It can be used to track
immigrants, protestors,

3554
02:37:03,350 --> 02:37:07,410
and inaccurate when tracking
people of darker complexion.

3555
02:37:07,410 --> 02:37:09,650
As we know, this can be very problematic

3556
02:37:09,650 --> 02:37:12,080
since these tools target these communities

3557
02:37:12,080 --> 02:37:14,190
through racial profiling already.

3558
02:37:14,190 --> 02:37:17,160
Having surveillance tools
like facial recognition

3559
02:37:17,160 --> 02:37:19,730
will contribute to an even
greater systemic oppression.

3560
02:37:19,730 --> 02:37:23,400
There's also has no business
being in our schools.

3561
02:37:23,400 --> 02:37:26,286
To my knowledge, some
schools are already investing

3562
02:37:26,286 --> 02:37:28,210
in face recognition software

3563
02:37:28,210 --> 02:37:31,240
and are investing millions
in this new technology,

3564
02:37:31,240 --> 02:37:32,960
and for what exactly?

3565
02:37:32,960 --> 02:37:34,840
To track their students every move?

3566
02:37:34,840 --> 02:37:38,620
I believe school should
spend that time and money

3567
02:37:38,620 --> 02:37:41,800
on bettering their school
and education systems,

3568
02:37:41,800 --> 02:37:44,680
rather than spending it
on software and tools

3569
02:37:44,680 --> 02:37:47,970
that will no way improve
students' ability to be educated.

3570
02:37:47,970 --> 02:37:50,040
We are already living in a time

3571
02:37:50,040 --> 02:37:52,840
where technology can do scary things

3572
02:37:52,840 --> 02:37:54,870
and the last thing we need

3573
02:37:54,870 --> 02:37:57,915
are people watching our every
move on a day-to-day basis.

3574
02:37:57,915 --> 02:37:59,210
During this pandemic,

3575
02:37:59,210 --> 02:38:00,950
we have grown accustomed to wearing masks

3576
02:38:00,950 --> 02:38:02,751
and covering our faces in public,

3577
02:38:02,751 --> 02:38:05,380
well, if we now have facial recognition

3578
02:38:05,380 --> 02:38:06,800
on every street corner,

3579
02:38:06,800 --> 02:38:10,040
then this temporary thing
the world has adapted to

3580
02:38:10,040 --> 02:38:11,610
may just become permanent.

3581
02:38:11,610 --> 02:38:13,730
Not only to protect our own privacy,

3582
02:38:13,730 --> 02:38:16,510
but to not be falsely accused of crimes

3583
02:38:16,510 --> 02:38:18,796
due to falsely recognition software.

3584
02:38:18,796 --> 02:38:22,760
2020 has had a great display
of racism and brutality

3585
02:38:22,760 --> 02:38:23,940
against people of color,

3586
02:38:23,940 --> 02:38:25,590
particularly the black community,

3587
02:38:25,590 --> 02:38:28,531
and I fear that systems such
as facial recognition software

3588
02:38:28,531 --> 02:38:30,417
in the hands of law enforcement,

3589
02:38:30,417 --> 02:38:33,000
can just be another tool
they use against us.

3590
02:38:33,000 --> 02:38:35,680
Thank you for listening to my concerns.

3591
02:38:35,680 --> 02:38:37,480
Thank you very much.

3592
02:38:37,480 --> 02:38:38,313
Clara Ruiz.

3593
02:38:43,480 --> 02:38:45,050
CLARA: Hello.
Hello.

3594
02:38:45,050 --> 02:38:47,200
You have two minutes Clara.

3595
02:38:49,330 --> 02:38:50,400
CLARA] : Thank you so much.

3596
02:38:50,400 --> 02:38:53,770
My name is Clara Ruiz and
I'm writing in support

3597
02:38:53,770 --> 02:38:57,000
of the ordinance banning
facial recognition technology

3598
02:38:57,000 --> 02:39:00,210
in Boston presented by
councilor Wu and Arroyo.

3599
02:39:00,210 --> 02:39:02,920
This ordinance establish
a ban on government use

3600
02:39:02,920 --> 02:39:05,240
of face surveillance
in the city of Boston.

3601
02:39:05,240 --> 02:39:07,840
Boston must pass this
ordinance to join Springfield,

3602
02:39:07,840 --> 02:39:10,170
Somerville, Cambridge,
Brooklyn, North Hampton

3603
02:39:10,170 --> 02:39:13,333
in protecting racial justice
privacy, and freedom of speech.

3604
02:39:13,333 --> 02:39:17,233
This mattered to me because
I'm a member of the BIPOCC,

3605
02:39:19,520 --> 02:39:22,392
Black Indigenous and
People of Color Community.

3606
02:39:22,392 --> 02:39:23,380
And this is allowing for the community

3607
02:39:23,380 --> 02:39:25,580
to increase in racial biases.

3608
02:39:25,580 --> 02:39:28,200
This technology does not
protect constitutional rights

3609
02:39:28,200 --> 02:39:32,111
and values, including
privacy in an immediate

3610
02:39:32,111 --> 02:39:35,330
[indistinct]

3611
02:39:35,330 --> 02:39:37,970
appropriate speech and
association, equal protection

3612
02:39:37,970 --> 02:39:40,740
and government accountability
in transparency.

3613
02:39:40,740 --> 02:39:43,120
And the government must be
aware of the technical limits

3614
02:39:43,120 --> 02:39:45,800
of even the most
promising new technologies

3615
02:39:45,800 --> 02:39:47,870
in the release of relying
on computer system

3616
02:39:47,870 --> 02:39:49,520
that can be prone to error.

3617
02:39:49,520 --> 02:39:50,930
Facial recognition is creeping

3618
02:39:50,930 --> 02:39:53,090
into more and more law
enforcement agencies,

3619
02:39:53,090 --> 02:39:55,030
but later notice or oversight.

3620
02:39:55,030 --> 02:39:57,860
And there are practically
no laws regulating

3621
02:39:57,860 --> 02:40:00,400
this investive surveillance technology.

3622
02:40:00,400 --> 02:40:02,730
Meanwhile, ongoing technical limitations

3623
02:40:02,730 --> 02:40:05,010
to the accuracy of facial recognition

3624
02:40:05,010 --> 02:40:07,469
create serious problems
like misidentification

3625
02:40:07,469 --> 02:40:09,570
and public safety risk.

3626
02:40:09,570 --> 02:40:11,910
I refuse to sit back and
put my community on the risk

3627
02:40:11,910 --> 02:40:15,500
than it already is.

3628
02:40:15,500 --> 02:40:17,120
These surveillance technologies

3629
02:40:17,120 --> 02:40:21,210
are intentionally set up to
the disadvantage of brown

3630
02:40:22,430 --> 02:40:24,420
and color people, communities.

3631
02:40:24,420 --> 02:40:26,780
It has a better success rate
when it comes to white males,

3632
02:40:26,780 --> 02:40:29,150
meaning this technology is a unreliable

3633
02:40:29,150 --> 02:40:30,750
and it will do more harm,

3634
02:40:30,750 --> 02:40:33,020
if we don't ban the surveillance tool.

3635
02:40:33,020 --> 02:40:36,820
This technology will allow
for misidentification

3636
02:40:36,820 --> 02:40:40,210
to purposely happen against
black and brown people.

3637
02:40:40,210 --> 02:40:42,840
A ban on face surveillance technology

3638
02:40:42,840 --> 02:40:44,940
is critically important
in the city of Boston

3639
02:40:44,940 --> 02:40:47,170
because we need to keep
the community safe,

3640
02:40:47,170 --> 02:40:48,920
because all life matters.

3641
02:40:48,920 --> 02:40:51,150
A federal government government's study

3642
02:40:51,150 --> 02:40:53,480
published in December 2019,

3643
02:40:53,480 --> 02:40:55,330
conduct face recognition algorithms

3644
02:40:55,330 --> 02:40:56,730
were most likely to fail

3645
02:40:56,730 --> 02:41:00,360
when attempting to identify
the faces of people of color,

3646
02:41:00,360 --> 02:41:03,270
children, elderly and woman.

3647
02:41:03,270 --> 02:41:07,290
That means the test only reliably works

3648
02:41:07,290 --> 02:41:08,820
on middle aged white men.

3649
02:41:08,820 --> 02:41:11,450
If really a small fraction
of Boston residents,

3650
02:41:11,450 --> 02:41:14,590
I encourage you to pass to press pause

3651
02:41:14,590 --> 02:41:17,550
on the use of face surveillance
by government entities

3652
02:41:20,250 --> 02:41:21,420
in the city of Boston,

3653
02:41:21,420 --> 02:41:23,920
by supporting and
passing this crucial ban.

3654
02:41:23,920 --> 02:41:26,520
We cannot allow Boston
to adopt authoritarian,

3655
02:41:26,520 --> 02:41:30,100
unregulated, bias surveillance technology.

3656
02:41:30,100 --> 02:41:32,317
Thank you for the opportunity to testify.

3657
02:41:32,317 --> 02:41:34,250
And the way, Diana Serrano,

3658
02:41:34,250 --> 02:41:36,333
is also gonna be testifying through this.

3659
02:41:38,720 --> 02:41:40,830
Diana you have two minutes.

3660
02:41:40,830 --> 02:41:43,310
DIANA: Okay, hello, my
name is Diana Serrano,

3661
02:41:43,310 --> 02:41:44,920
good evening.

3662
02:41:44,920 --> 02:41:47,680
I'm writing on behalf of SIM
in support of the ordinance

3663
02:41:47,680 --> 02:41:50,490
banning facial recognition
technology in Boston.

3664
02:41:50,490 --> 02:41:53,400
I urge my city of Boston
to pass this ordinance

3665
02:41:53,400 --> 02:41:55,780
to join Springfield,
Somerville, Cambridge, Brooklyn

3666
02:41:55,780 --> 02:41:58,400
and North Hampton in
protecting racial justice,

3667
02:41:58,400 --> 02:42:01,223
privacy and freedom of speech.

3668
02:42:01,223 --> 02:42:02,880
It is our duty as a free and just city,

3669
02:42:02,880 --> 02:42:06,260
to ban technology like facial recognition.

3670
02:42:06,260 --> 02:42:08,400
As a victim of social media hacking,

3671
02:42:08,400 --> 02:42:11,701
I've seen how technology could
be used as a tool to defame

3672
02:42:11,701 --> 02:42:14,180
and criminalize with pictures

3673
02:42:14,180 --> 02:42:17,380
that feel like proof to the viewers.

3674
02:42:17,380 --> 02:42:19,185
As a teacher and civilian,

3675
02:42:19,185 --> 02:42:22,170
I refuse to allow those in my community

3676
02:42:22,170 --> 02:42:24,660
to be exposed to a highly problematic

3677
02:42:24,660 --> 02:42:27,540
and technology like facial recognition.

3678
02:42:27,540 --> 02:42:29,850
Not only is privacy important

3679
02:42:29,850 --> 02:42:32,470
and should be valued
by our law enforcement,

3680
02:42:32,470 --> 02:42:35,400
face surveillance is
proven to be less accurate

3681
02:42:35,400 --> 02:42:37,470
for people with darker skin.

3682
02:42:37,470 --> 02:42:39,710
With the high levels of
racial discrimination

3683
02:42:39,710 --> 02:42:41,740
forced on our black and brown communities

3684
02:42:41,740 --> 02:42:43,270
by law enforcement.

3685
02:42:43,270 --> 02:42:45,260
The racial bias in face surveillance

3686
02:42:45,260 --> 02:42:48,960
will put lives in danger even
further than they already are.

3687
02:42:48,960 --> 02:42:50,850
A ban on face surveillance technology

3688
02:42:50,850 --> 02:42:53,140
is critically important
in the city of Boston

3689
02:42:53,140 --> 02:42:55,523
because that technology
really is only reliable

3690
02:42:55,523 --> 02:42:58,623
for a very small fraction
of the population.

3691
02:42:58,623 --> 02:43:01,660
It's highly important
to me to live in a city

3692
02:43:01,660 --> 02:43:04,380
where it is critical for
leaders to keep our city

3693
02:43:04,380 --> 02:43:05,910
and its people safe.

3694
02:43:05,910 --> 02:43:08,921
Although it may seem as
though facial recognition

3695
02:43:08,921 --> 02:43:12,119
could maybe keep us safer, it
has proven do the opposite.

3696
02:43:12,119 --> 02:43:16,100
I urge you to press pause on
the use of facial surveillance

3697
02:43:16,100 --> 02:43:18,750
by government entities
and the city of Boston

3698
02:43:18,750 --> 02:43:21,210
by supporting and passing the crucial ban.

3699
02:43:21,210 --> 02:43:23,180
We cannot allow Boston to adopt

3700
02:43:23,180 --> 02:43:26,830
authoritarian, unregulated,
bias surveillance technology.

3701
02:43:26,830 --> 02:43:29,685
Thank you for your
attention, Diana Serrano.

3702
02:43:29,685 --> 02:43:31,660
Thank you very much.

3703
02:43:31,660 --> 02:43:36,660
Oliver De Leon, you have two minute.

3704
02:43:37,763 --> 02:43:40,300
OLIVER: Hi, my name is Oliver

3705
02:43:40,300 --> 02:43:42,820
and I live in Jamaica Plain.

3706
02:43:42,820 --> 02:43:45,670
And I was undocumented when I attended

3707
02:43:45,670 --> 02:43:48,360
the Boston public schools
in early nineties.

3708
02:43:48,360 --> 02:43:53,040
So yes, it's a while back, so
I became a citizen in 2016.

3709
02:43:54,359 --> 02:43:57,110
I look back on my days in high school

3710
02:43:57,110 --> 02:43:59,378
while contemplating this new technology,

3711
02:43:59,378 --> 02:44:04,378
facial recognition and I
can sincerely tell you that

3712
02:44:04,860 --> 02:44:08,390
it terrified me the
thought of having somebody

3713
02:44:08,390 --> 02:44:11,127
access this technology without
my consent acknowledge.

3714
02:44:11,127 --> 02:44:14,040
I don't know if this would have allowed me

3715
02:44:14,040 --> 02:44:16,950
to finish school at that time.

3716
02:44:16,950 --> 02:44:19,020
And it would have been hard

3717
02:44:19,020 --> 02:44:22,441
to even finish possibly higher education.

3718
02:44:22,441 --> 02:44:24,000
Without that education,

3719
02:44:24,000 --> 02:44:27,840
I wouldn't have been able
to secure job opportunities

3720
02:44:27,840 --> 02:44:30,540
like I have now with a paying job

3721
02:44:30,540 --> 02:44:32,800
that helps me provide for my family.

3722
02:44:32,800 --> 02:44:35,410
So we started thinking about that.

3723
02:44:35,410 --> 02:44:38,320
We start see seeing how
this facial recognition

3724
02:44:38,320 --> 02:44:41,470
can actually have a negative impact

3725
02:44:41,470 --> 02:44:44,483
in the education of our
youth and our future.

3726
02:44:44,483 --> 02:44:47,555
People already talk, how are the U.S.

3727
02:44:47,555 --> 02:44:49,610
is already riddled with racial bias,

3728
02:44:49,610 --> 02:44:54,030
and this software is just
giving people already empowered

3729
02:44:54,030 --> 02:44:56,310
a tool to discriminate even more.

3730
02:44:56,310 --> 02:45:00,086
For example, I.C.E has already
shown up in the protests

3731
02:45:00,086 --> 02:45:02,300
and detained a few people.

3732
02:45:02,300 --> 02:45:04,130
Now we have to ask ourselves

3733
02:45:04,130 --> 02:45:08,220
how the heck do they
pick out these few people

3734
02:45:08,220 --> 02:45:11,310
in the thousands of protesters?

3735
02:45:11,310 --> 02:45:13,300
I mean, one can only speculate,

3736
02:45:13,300 --> 02:45:14,700
but one of the few answers

3737
02:45:14,700 --> 02:45:17,100
can be facial recognition software.

3738
02:45:17,100 --> 02:45:18,060
Do we not have it?

3739
02:45:18,060 --> 02:45:19,200
Do they have it?

3740
02:45:19,200 --> 02:45:21,300
How can we show that they're not using it?

3741
02:45:21,300 --> 02:45:24,580
Well, it's pretty hard to pick
out two or three individuals

3742
02:45:24,580 --> 02:45:27,201
out of a thousands and thousands

3743
02:45:27,201 --> 02:45:29,018
and thousands of protestors.

3744
02:45:29,018 --> 02:45:31,816
So it's up to us to kind
of speculate what that is.

3745
02:45:31,816 --> 02:45:35,250
The Coronavirus has caused major epidemic.

3746
02:45:35,250 --> 02:45:38,503
The police brutality has
caused major epidemic.

3747
02:45:38,503 --> 02:45:40,550
I guess we have to ask ourselves,

3748
02:45:40,550 --> 02:45:44,010
are you allowing the
next epidemic to happen?

3749
02:45:44,010 --> 02:45:44,843
Maybe.

3750
02:45:45,678 --> 02:45:47,810
Banning facial recognition
in the city of Boston

3751
02:45:47,810 --> 02:45:52,061
will bring us to be in the
middle of the next battle.

3752
02:45:52,061 --> 02:45:56,260
And which side do we wanna be on?

3753
02:45:56,260 --> 02:45:58,630
Let's not approve this software.

3754
02:45:58,630 --> 02:46:01,026
I urge you to to ban facial
recognition technology

3755
02:46:01,026 --> 02:46:03,267
as it also affects our youth.

3756
02:46:03,267 --> 02:46:07,730
We do not need a system or software

3757
02:46:07,730 --> 02:46:09,440
that can pick up individuals

3758
02:46:09,440 --> 02:46:11,340
and potentially erroneously

3759
02:46:11,340 --> 02:46:14,890
accuse them of something
that they haven't done.

3760
02:46:14,890 --> 02:46:18,000
Will the next death is
caused by your choice today.

3761
02:46:18,000 --> 02:46:19,790
Let's hope not, thank you.

3762
02:46:19,790 --> 02:46:22,104
Thank you, thank you very much.

3763
02:46:22,104 --> 02:46:23,970
It's 10 to six.

3764
02:46:23,970 --> 02:46:28,430
I'm going to have to stop
sharing at six o'clock.

3765
02:46:28,430 --> 02:46:32,610
That only means that I will
be turning over the gavel

3766
02:46:32,610 --> 02:46:35,380
to the one of the lead sponsors,

3767
02:46:35,380 --> 02:46:36,543
Michelle Wu at six o'clock.

3768
02:46:37,522 --> 02:46:39,264
But I'm gonna call the
next names of individuals

3769
02:46:39,264 --> 02:46:43,120
who are in line and have
signed up to speak before I go.

3770
02:46:43,120 --> 02:46:44,540
And we'll continue chair.

3771
02:46:44,540 --> 02:46:49,540
I've got an Angel, Michelle
Raj Mon, Leon Smith,

3772
02:46:51,164 --> 02:46:56,164
Amy van der Hiel, excuse me,
Julie McNulty and Zachary Lawn.

3773
02:47:00,060 --> 02:47:01,823
So is the Angel available?

3774
02:47:02,730 --> 02:47:03,563
ANGEL: Yes.

3775
02:47:05,330 --> 02:47:08,263
Hello everyone, thank
you for being here today.

3776
02:47:09,537 --> 02:47:10,683
Thank you.

3777
02:47:14,219 --> 02:47:19,219
ANGEL: My name is Angel
and I am in fresh grade

3778
02:47:19,411 --> 02:47:24,411
and go to a Boston public school.

3779
02:47:26,700 --> 02:47:28,530
I am seven years old.

3780
02:47:28,530 --> 02:47:32,360
To me surveillance means
people watching you

3781
02:47:32,360 --> 02:47:34,500
without even knowing.

3782
02:47:34,500 --> 02:47:36,310
I would feel frustrated

3783
02:47:36,310 --> 02:47:41,310
because I do not want anyone watching me,

3784
02:47:42,760 --> 02:47:47,760
especially if I'm home
at school or at a park.

3785
02:47:48,775 --> 02:47:53,775
Facial recognition is
when they see your face

3786
02:47:54,195 --> 02:47:58,810
and know all the details,

3787
02:47:58,810 --> 02:48:01,870
but this does not work for everyone

3788
02:48:01,870 --> 02:48:06,180
because most police do not like people

3789
02:48:06,180 --> 02:48:09,740
who are not their skin color.

3790
02:48:09,740 --> 02:48:13,250
This tool is not going to be equal

3791
02:48:13,250 --> 02:48:18,250
to people who are black,
Latino, immigrants and more,

3792
02:48:20,490 --> 02:48:23,677
it can get the wrong person.

3793
02:48:27,349 --> 02:48:32,349
I am young, as I get older,
I will not look the same.

3794
02:48:33,320 --> 02:48:38,320
I am seven now and when I turned
13, I will look different.

3795
02:48:38,650 --> 02:48:42,250
When I turn 18, I will look different.

3796
02:48:42,250 --> 02:48:45,670
I get older and my face changes.

3797
02:48:45,670 --> 02:48:50,052
If these tools are used new
school, I will not feel safe.

3798
02:48:50,052 --> 02:48:52,970
We are just children.

3799
02:48:52,970 --> 02:48:57,300
Our teachers are already
taking care and watching us.

3800
02:48:57,300 --> 02:49:00,078
We do not need police watching us.

3801
02:49:00,078 --> 02:49:03,963
Thank you SIM, for your love and support.

3802
02:49:07,413 --> 02:49:08,246
Well, I have to say,

3803
02:49:08,246 --> 02:49:12,424
I think you're the youngest
person that's testified ever.

3804
02:49:12,424 --> 02:49:15,580
And in anything I've ever shared,

3805
02:49:15,580 --> 02:49:17,050
or I had that participation,

3806
02:49:17,050 --> 02:49:18,290
I know we're all on Zoom,

3807
02:49:18,290 --> 02:49:21,120
but I will give you a round of applause.

3808
02:49:21,120 --> 02:49:22,550
Thank you so much.

3809
02:49:22,550 --> 02:49:25,798
That was absolutely beautiful,
very powerful testimony.

3810
02:49:25,798 --> 02:49:28,430
We're so proud of you.

3811
02:49:28,430 --> 02:49:31,010
Your city council and
city are so proud of you.

3812
02:49:31,010 --> 02:49:34,266
Thank you so much for
your testimony Angel.

3813
02:49:34,266 --> 02:49:38,530
I'm going to now call on,

3814
02:49:38,530 --> 02:49:41,225
I don't think I see Michelle or Leon

3815
02:49:41,225 --> 02:49:43,563
and don't share them either.

3816
02:49:45,020 --> 02:49:49,020
Okay, so I see Amy, who
was we called earlier?

3817
02:49:49,020 --> 02:49:52,269
So Amy, you have two minutes

3818
02:49:52,269 --> 02:49:54,510
and you get to follow the
cutest seven-year-old ever.

3819
02:49:54,510 --> 02:49:56,700
[Lydia laughs]

3820
02:49:56,700 --> 02:49:57,533
Go ahead,

3821
02:49:58,930 --> 02:49:59,763
you're on mute.

3822
02:50:02,120 --> 02:50:05,127
Thank you, I applaud
her testimony entirely.

3823
02:50:05,127 --> 02:50:07,470
Thank you madam chairwoman and the council

3824
02:50:07,470 --> 02:50:10,009
for hearing our testimony,
I'll be very brief.

3825
02:50:10,009 --> 02:50:13,670
I just wanted to say my
name is Amy van der Hiel.

3826
02:50:13,670 --> 02:50:15,140
I live in Roslindale

3827
02:50:15,140 --> 02:50:18,203
and I support the ban on
face surveillance, thank you.

3828
02:50:19,100 --> 02:50:21,040
Thank you very much, Michelle.

3829
02:50:21,040 --> 02:50:25,369
I have a Michelle Raj Mon and
I see that Michelle Barrios.

3830
02:50:25,369 --> 02:50:26,202
Are you...

3831
02:50:26,202 --> 02:50:28,170
Okay, that was the mistake.

3832
02:50:28,170 --> 02:50:30,850
Very well then, Michelle
you have two minutes.

3833
02:50:30,850 --> 02:50:31,683
That's okay.

3834
02:50:33,230 --> 02:50:38,045
And I also am not following
Angel as a bit much.

3835
02:50:38,045 --> 02:50:39,980
So hello.

3836
02:50:39,980 --> 02:50:41,610
My name is Michelle Barrios

3837
02:50:41,610 --> 02:50:44,550
and I am a social studies
teacher in the Boston area.

3838
02:50:44,550 --> 02:50:46,630
And today I am here speaking on behalf

3839
02:50:46,630 --> 02:50:48,467
of the Student Immigrant Movement,

3840
02:50:48,467 --> 02:50:50,580
myself as an educator

3841
02:50:50,580 --> 02:50:54,050
and on the behalf of my
diverse student population.

3842
02:50:54,050 --> 02:50:56,580
I am speaking in support of the ordinance

3843
02:50:56,580 --> 02:50:59,440
banning facial recognition
technology in Boston,

3844
02:50:59,440 --> 02:51:02,170
presented by councilors Wu and Arroyo.

3845
02:51:02,170 --> 02:51:04,820
This ordinance established
a ban on government use

3846
02:51:04,820 --> 02:51:07,720
of facial surveillance
in the city of Boston.

3847
02:51:07,720 --> 02:51:10,490
Boston must pass this
ordinance to join Springfield,

3848
02:51:10,490 --> 02:51:14,050
Somerville, excuse me,
Springfield, Somerville,

3849
02:51:14,050 --> 02:51:16,680
Cambridge, Brooklyn and North Hampton

3850
02:51:16,680 --> 02:51:19,930
in protecting racial justice,
privacy and freedom of speech.

3851
02:51:19,930 --> 02:51:23,560
In my training as a
social studies teacher,

3852
02:51:23,560 --> 02:51:25,510
I became increasingly aware of the trauma

3853
02:51:25,510 --> 02:51:27,110
that students of color develop

3854
02:51:27,988 --> 02:51:30,040
as they grow in a society

3855
02:51:30,040 --> 02:51:32,680
that seeks to police them on
the basis of their ethnicity,

3856
02:51:32,680 --> 02:51:35,180
economic status and place of residence.

3857
02:51:35,180 --> 02:51:38,450
This trauma is exacerbated
when a young person

3858
02:51:38,450 --> 02:51:40,010
comes from an immigrant family,

3859
02:51:40,010 --> 02:51:41,380
the status in this country,

3860
02:51:41,380 --> 02:51:44,150
places them at risk of family separation,

3861
02:51:44,150 --> 02:51:47,840
a loss of education and a
stripping of basic human rights.

3862
02:51:47,840 --> 02:51:51,130
We know that students struggle
to succeed academically

3863
02:51:51,130 --> 02:51:54,440
when they face these
daily existential traumas,

3864
02:51:54,440 --> 02:51:57,660
which in essence is a
violation of their rights

3865
02:51:57,660 --> 02:51:59,730
in the U.S. to pursue survival,

3866
02:51:59,730 --> 02:52:03,060
let alone social mobility
and a future of stability.

3867
02:52:03,060 --> 02:52:05,750
In addition to my training
and work as an educator,

3868
02:52:05,750 --> 02:52:08,270
I am the wife of a Latino immigrants

3869
02:52:08,270 --> 02:52:11,660
and the mother of two
of my sisters children,

3870
02:52:11,660 --> 02:52:13,100
while I am a white Latina

3871
02:52:13,100 --> 02:52:15,170
and I can live under the
presumption of innocence

3872
02:52:15,170 --> 02:52:16,350
due to my white privilege,

3873
02:52:16,350 --> 02:52:19,090
I've witnessed firsthand what
it means to live in a society

3874
02:52:19,090 --> 02:52:22,440
that has not yet made good
on its promise of equality,

3875
02:52:22,440 --> 02:52:24,380
liberty, and justice for all.

3876
02:52:24,380 --> 02:52:26,360
My husband is followed in stores,

3877
02:52:26,360 --> 02:52:28,810
teachers hesitate to
release our children to him

3878
02:52:28,810 --> 02:52:30,080
when they first meet him

3879
02:52:30,080 --> 02:52:32,170
and he has been asked for
his immigration status

3880
02:52:32,170 --> 02:52:35,500
by customers in his place of work.

3881
02:52:35,500 --> 02:52:39,340
We are in the fortunate
position to know that his life

3882
02:52:39,340 --> 02:52:41,700
and our family can count
on his permanent residency

3883
02:52:41,700 --> 02:52:43,800
to keep us together for now.

3884
02:52:43,800 --> 02:52:47,100
However, I cannot say the
same for many Latin X families

3885
02:52:47,100 --> 02:52:48,750
in the greater Boston area,

3886
02:52:48,750 --> 02:52:50,830
a ban on face surveillance technology

3887
02:52:50,830 --> 02:52:53,270
is critically important
in the city of Boston

3888
02:52:53,270 --> 02:52:56,465
because this surveillance
harms our privacy

3889
02:52:56,465 --> 02:52:58,000
and our freedom of speech,

3890
02:52:58,000 --> 02:53:01,120
a fundamental right in our constitution.

3891
02:53:01,120 --> 02:53:03,650
This type of surveillance
threatens to create a world

3892
02:53:03,650 --> 02:53:05,680
where people are watched and identified

3893
02:53:05,680 --> 02:53:07,820
as they exercise their right to protest,

3894
02:53:07,820 --> 02:53:10,000
congregate at places of worship

3895
02:53:10,000 --> 02:53:12,730
and visit medical providers,

3896
02:53:12,730 --> 02:53:14,650
as they go about their daily lives.

3897
02:53:14,650 --> 02:53:15,810
For my students of color,

3898
02:53:15,810 --> 02:53:18,220
specifically the young
men growing up in a world

3899
02:53:18,220 --> 02:53:21,757
that still cannot fully accept
that their lives matter,

3900
02:53:26,270 --> 02:53:28,870
face surveillance technology is not only

3901
02:53:28,870 --> 02:53:30,470
another threat to their lives,

3902
02:53:30,470 --> 02:53:32,530
but a response saying
to these young people,

3903
02:53:32,530 --> 02:53:34,590
you still don't matter.

3904
02:53:34,590 --> 02:53:37,060
I teach world history as well
as comparative government

3905
02:53:37,060 --> 02:53:40,380
and politics, and when I
teach about authoritarianism,

3906
02:53:40,380 --> 02:53:43,410
I teach about the impact
on marginalized groups

3907
02:53:43,410 --> 02:53:46,162
in countries that are still
considered developing.

3908
02:53:46,162 --> 02:53:50,330
I teach that in these free countries

3909
02:53:50,330 --> 02:53:52,501
or in these recently free countries,

3910
02:53:52,501 --> 02:53:56,100
surveillance is one of
the most common tools

3911
02:53:56,100 --> 02:53:58,180
to manage descent.

3912
02:53:58,180 --> 02:54:01,690
And that is often followed
by state sanctioned violence

3913
02:54:01,690 --> 02:54:05,010
as means to silence any dissidents.

3914
02:54:05,010 --> 02:54:07,585
I urge each of you to
consider the statement

3915
02:54:07,585 --> 02:54:10,502
the statement that you
would make by not banning

3916
02:54:10,502 --> 02:54:15,502
the use of facial surveillance
technology in Boston.

3917
02:54:16,385 --> 02:54:20,210
I urge each of you to imagine
a 14 year old student of color

3918
02:54:20,210 --> 02:54:22,970
or a Latino essential
worker in front of you,

3919
02:54:22,970 --> 02:54:25,210
asking if their lives matter.

3920
02:54:25,210 --> 02:54:26,970
What is your response?

3921
02:54:26,970 --> 02:54:29,260
I encourage you to consider that moment

3922
02:54:29,260 --> 02:54:32,240
and to press pause on the
use of face surveillance

3923
02:54:32,240 --> 02:54:34,360
by government entities
in the city of Boston,

3924
02:54:34,360 --> 02:54:36,780
by supporting and
passing this crucial ban.

3925
02:54:36,780 --> 02:54:40,240
We cannot allow Boston
to adopt authoritarian,

3926
02:54:40,240 --> 02:54:43,310
unregulated, bias surveillance technology.

3927
02:54:43,310 --> 02:54:46,300
Thank you for your attention
and your consideration.

3928
02:54:46,300 --> 02:54:47,410
Thank you very much.

3929
02:54:47,410 --> 02:54:51,550
At this point, I'm going
to turn over the microphone

3930
02:54:51,550 --> 02:54:56,065
or the gavel if you will, to
my colleague, Michelle Wu.

3931
02:54:56,065 --> 02:54:59,570
I'll just say up next two
speakers should be getting ready.

3932
02:54:59,570 --> 02:55:04,570
Is Julie McNulty, Zachary
Lawn, Christina Rivera,

3933
02:55:06,705 --> 02:55:08,288
and Joseph Fridman.

3934
02:55:09,639 --> 02:55:10,472
I wanna thank you so
much to the lead sponsors

3935
02:55:12,447 --> 02:55:13,498
of this ordinance.

3936
02:55:13,498 --> 02:55:14,510
I will be planning to
have a working session

3937
02:55:14,510 --> 02:55:16,350
as soon as possible.

3938
02:55:16,350 --> 02:55:18,900
I do understand the
urgency and I do believe

3939
02:55:18,900 --> 02:55:23,340
that there is a great
opportunity before us to lead

3940
02:55:23,340 --> 02:55:28,340
in a way that not only values the lives

3941
02:55:29,258 --> 02:55:33,610
of our black and brown, but in
general, our civil liberties.

3942
02:55:33,610 --> 02:55:34,850
And so I want to thank again,

3943
02:55:34,850 --> 02:55:36,670
lead sponsors for their leadership.

3944
02:55:36,670 --> 02:55:38,800
I look forward to getting this done

3945
02:55:38,800 --> 02:55:41,350
and with that I'm going
to have to sign off

3946
02:55:41,350 --> 02:55:43,423
and I turn over to Michelle Wu.

3947
02:55:44,386 --> 02:55:45,943
Thank you.

3948
02:55:45,943 --> 02:55:47,205
Thank you so much, madam chair.

3949
02:55:47,205 --> 02:55:49,538
We're very grateful for you.

3950
02:55:51,200 --> 02:55:53,083
Okay, next step was Julie.

3951
02:55:55,160 --> 02:55:59,293
And if not, Julie, then Zachary.

3952
02:56:06,450 --> 02:56:11,210
And just to know, could
council central staff

3953
02:56:11,210 --> 02:56:12,390
give me administrative rights,

3954
02:56:12,390 --> 02:56:14,960
so I can help search whether folks

3955
02:56:14,960 --> 02:56:17,056
are stuck in the waiting room

3956
02:56:17,056 --> 02:56:20,313
and trans people over into the
panelists section, thank you.

3957
02:56:23,160 --> 02:56:27,260
So again, it was Julie,
Zachary, Christina Rivera,

3958
02:56:27,260 --> 02:56:31,843
Joseph Fridman, Danielle
Samter, for the next few.

3959
02:56:43,630 --> 02:56:44,780
Christina, why don't you go ahead.

3960
02:56:44,780 --> 02:56:46,730
I see you now in the, in the main room.

3961
02:56:48,275 --> 02:56:49,280
Hi, yes.

3962
02:56:49,280 --> 02:56:50,319
Thank you for having me as stated.

3963
02:56:50,319 --> 02:56:51,921
My name is Christina Rivera

3964
02:56:51,921 --> 02:56:54,290
and I am an east Boston resident.

3965
02:56:54,290 --> 02:56:57,238
I'm also the founder of
the Latin X Coalition

3966
02:56:57,238 --> 02:56:58,899
for Black Lives Matter.

3967
02:56:58,899 --> 02:57:01,790
It is a support organization

3968
02:57:01,790 --> 02:57:04,560
to help end racism within our community,

3969
02:57:04,560 --> 02:57:06,900
but also help advance the work

3970
02:57:06,900 --> 02:57:09,870
of the Black Lives Matter Movement.

3971
02:57:09,870 --> 02:57:11,480
I wanna say that we as an organization,

3972
02:57:11,480 --> 02:57:13,080
we fully support the ordinance

3973
02:57:13,080 --> 02:57:16,680
of a ban on facial recognition technology.

3974
02:57:16,680 --> 02:57:18,980
As stated all throughout
this meeting earlier,

3975
02:57:19,929 --> 02:57:21,110
we know that the automation bias exists

3976
02:57:21,110 --> 02:57:23,770
and that facial recognition technology

3977
02:57:23,770 --> 02:57:26,760
clearly shows bias towards
already highly targeted

3978
02:57:26,760 --> 02:57:28,610
and hyper policed communities,

3979
02:57:28,610 --> 02:57:30,630
specifically those of color.

3980
02:57:30,630 --> 02:57:33,180
And I just wanna pose the question,

3981
02:57:33,180 --> 02:57:35,120
how can we begin to trust

3982
02:57:35,120 --> 02:57:37,601
even with the development
of algorithm accuracy,

3983
02:57:37,601 --> 02:57:41,400
that those who will use it in the future

3984
02:57:41,400 --> 02:57:43,304
will not abuse its capabilities.

3985
02:57:43,304 --> 02:57:45,320
We already have a police force

3986
02:57:45,320 --> 02:57:47,110
that has shown time and time again,

3987
02:57:47,110 --> 02:57:49,960
that some of their own
procedures are still abused

3988
02:57:49,960 --> 02:57:53,370
to this date and used by bad actors.

3989
02:57:53,370 --> 02:57:55,370
So adding a tool that can be used

3990
02:57:55,370 --> 02:57:57,000
to further affirm racial bias

3991
02:57:57,000 --> 02:57:59,908
only provides another route
to target our communities.

3992
02:57:59,908 --> 02:58:03,870
Using this technology also
enforces a policing system

3993
02:58:03,870 --> 02:58:05,830
that is based on control,

3994
02:58:05,830 --> 02:58:09,390
and that is a direct
symptom of police mistrust

3995
02:58:09,390 --> 02:58:11,420
that already exists of their own citizens

3996
02:58:11,420 --> 02:58:13,700
and the ones that they serve.

3997
02:58:13,700 --> 02:58:16,345
And so, as some people earlier stated,

3998
02:58:16,345 --> 02:58:19,465
specifically Mr. Daley point about

3999
02:58:19,465 --> 02:58:24,280
what government agencies are
allowed to already use this

4000
02:58:24,280 --> 02:58:28,520
versus people who have in inactive bands,

4001
02:58:28,520 --> 02:58:31,570
what is also going to
be the legislative power

4002
02:58:31,570 --> 02:58:34,000
that any federal agency
will be able to use it

4003
02:58:34,000 --> 02:58:35,600
in individual states,

4004
02:58:35,600 --> 02:58:39,070
specifically when it comes
to I.C.E and immigration.

4005
02:58:39,070 --> 02:58:41,060
So this is something that
we are looking to make sure

4006
02:58:41,060 --> 02:58:43,446
that it's not only is banned now,

4007
02:58:43,446 --> 02:58:45,605
but also cannot be allowed in the future.

4008
02:58:45,605 --> 02:58:46,700
With that said,

4009
02:58:46,700 --> 02:58:48,160
thank you so much to all the panelists

4010
02:58:48,160 --> 02:58:50,260
who've shared all this great information.

4011
02:58:50,260 --> 02:58:52,907
Thank you so much to councilor
Wu and councilor Arroyo

4012
02:58:52,907 --> 02:58:56,260
for doing this work and I concede my time.

4013
02:58:56,260 --> 02:58:57,093
Thank you.

4014
02:58:58,760 --> 02:59:00,000
Thank you so much, Christina.

4015
02:59:00,000 --> 02:59:02,403
We appreciate you, Joseph.

4016
02:59:06,027 --> 02:59:07,426
Yes, thank you for your time.

4017
02:59:07,426 --> 02:59:08,520
I'd like to tell you a
little bit about the science

4018
02:59:08,520 --> 02:59:11,060
between emotion detection technologies.

4019
02:59:11,060 --> 02:59:11,960
So these are technologies

4020
02:59:11,960 --> 02:59:14,480
that use information captured
from face surveillance

4021
02:59:14,480 --> 02:59:16,350
to supposedly recognize emotions.

4022
02:59:16,350 --> 02:59:18,560
So I'll be speaking to
you as a private citizen,

4023
02:59:18,560 --> 02:59:19,880
but I'll tell you that
for the past three years,

4024
02:59:19,880 --> 02:59:21,870
I've been working at a lab
at Northeastern University,

4025
02:59:21,870 --> 02:59:23,200
which studies emotions,

4026
02:59:23,200 --> 02:59:24,250
and I've been a research assistant

4027
02:59:24,250 --> 02:59:26,190
at the Harvard Kennedy Schools
Belfer Center for Science

4028
02:59:26,190 --> 02:59:27,410
and International Relations,

4029
02:59:27,410 --> 02:59:29,430
thinking about the same
type of technology.

4030
02:59:29,430 --> 02:59:31,440
At the interdisciplinary
aspect of science lab

4031
02:59:31,440 --> 02:59:32,273
at Northeastern,

4032
02:59:32,273 --> 02:59:34,430
one of my bosses is Dr.
Lisa Feldman Barrett.

4033
02:59:34,430 --> 02:59:36,480
Dr. Barrett has research
appointments at MGH

4034
02:59:36,480 --> 02:59:37,330
and Harvard Medical School.

4035
02:59:37,330 --> 02:59:39,610
She's the chief scientific
officer at MGH Center

4036
02:59:39,610 --> 02:59:41,100
for Law, Brain and Behavior.

4037
02:59:41,100 --> 02:59:41,933
She's the author of

4038
02:59:41,933 --> 02:59:44,040
over 230 peer reviewed scientific papers,

4039
02:59:44,040 --> 02:59:45,430
and just finished a term as president

4040
02:59:45,430 --> 02:59:47,590
of the Association for
Psychological Science,

4041
02:59:47,590 --> 02:59:49,520
where she represented tens
of thousands of scientists

4042
02:59:49,520 --> 02:59:50,760
around the world.

4043
02:59:50,760 --> 02:59:51,593
Three years ago,

4044
02:59:51,593 --> 02:59:54,060
this organization commissioned
her and four other experts,

4045
02:59:54,060 --> 02:59:56,190
psychologists, computer
science, and so on,

4046
02:59:56,190 --> 02:59:57,270
to do a major study

4047
02:59:57,270 --> 02:59:59,600
on whether people across
the world express emotions

4048
02:59:59,600 --> 03:00:01,860
like anger, sadness,
fear, disgust, surprise,

4049
03:00:01,860 --> 03:00:04,960
and happiness with distinctive
movements of the face.

4050
03:00:04,960 --> 03:00:06,030
So all of these scientists

4051
03:00:06,030 --> 03:00:07,290
started with different perspectives,

4052
03:00:07,290 --> 03:00:09,360
but they reviewed a
thousand research articles

4053
03:00:09,360 --> 03:00:12,100
and they came to a very simple
and very important consensus.

4054
03:00:12,100 --> 03:00:13,400
So the question is,

4055
03:00:13,400 --> 03:00:16,110
can you read emotions
reliably in a human face?

4056
03:00:16,110 --> 03:00:17,390
And the answer is no.

4057
03:00:17,390 --> 03:00:19,470
Here's an example from Dr. Barrett.

4058
03:00:19,470 --> 03:00:22,350
People living in Western
cultures scowl when they're angry

4059
03:00:22,350 --> 03:00:23,920
about 30% of the time,

4060
03:00:23,920 --> 03:00:26,190
this means that they make
other facial expressions,

4061
03:00:26,190 --> 03:00:29,866
frowns, wide-eyed, gasps
smiles about 70% of the time.

4062
03:00:29,866 --> 03:00:32,320
This is called low reliability.

4063
03:00:32,320 --> 03:00:35,069
People scowl when angry more than chance,

4064
03:00:35,069 --> 03:00:36,130
but they also scowl
when they're not angry.

4065
03:00:36,130 --> 03:00:38,650
If they're concentrating or if
they have something like gas,

4066
03:00:38,650 --> 03:00:40,510
this is called low specificity.

4067
03:00:40,510 --> 03:00:42,730
So a scowl is not the expression of anger,

4068
03:00:42,730 --> 03:00:44,420
but it's one of many expressions of anger.

4069
03:00:44,420 --> 03:00:47,070
And sometimes it doesn't
express anger at all.

4070
03:00:47,070 --> 03:00:49,669
In this paper, Dr.
Barrett and her colleagues

4071
03:00:49,669 --> 03:00:52,484
showed that scowling and
anger, smiling and happiness,

4072
03:00:52,484 --> 03:00:53,489
frowning and sadness,

4073
03:00:53,489 --> 03:00:55,310
these are all Western stereotypes
of emotional expressions.

4074
03:00:55,310 --> 03:00:56,770
They reflect some common beliefs

4075
03:00:56,770 --> 03:00:58,260
about emotional expressions,

4076
03:00:58,260 --> 03:01:00,391
but these beliefs don't correspond

4077
03:01:00,391 --> 03:01:02,887
to how people actually move
their faces in real life.

4078
03:01:02,887 --> 03:01:03,720
And they don't generalize to cultures

4079
03:01:04,925 --> 03:01:06,608
that are different from ours.

4080
03:01:06,608 --> 03:01:07,989
So it's not possible for anyone

4081
03:01:07,989 --> 03:01:09,806
or anything to read an
emotion on our face.

4082
03:01:09,806 --> 03:01:11,550
And we shouldn't confidently
infer happiness from a smile,

4083
03:01:11,550 --> 03:01:14,070
anger from a scowl or
sadness from a frown.

4084
03:01:14,070 --> 03:01:16,906
There are technologies
that claim to do this,

4085
03:01:16,906 --> 03:01:18,989
and they're misrepresenting
what they can do

4086
03:01:18,989 --> 03:01:20,203
according to the best available evidence.

4087
03:01:21,470 --> 03:01:24,370
People aren't moving their faces randomly,

4088
03:01:24,370 --> 03:01:25,730
but there's a lot of variation

4089
03:01:25,730 --> 03:01:27,808
and the meaning of a facial movement

4090
03:01:27,808 --> 03:01:30,190
depends on a person on the
context and on culture.

4091
03:01:30,190 --> 03:01:31,810
So let me give you one example

4092
03:01:31,810 --> 03:01:34,670
of how making this assumption
can be really harmful.

4093
03:01:34,670 --> 03:01:36,240
There's a scientist, Dr. Lauren Ruth,

4094
03:01:36,240 --> 03:01:38,563
when she was at Wake Forest University,

4095
03:01:38,563 --> 03:01:40,085
published work reviewing two popular

4096
03:01:40,085 --> 03:01:41,010
emotion detection algorithms.

4097
03:01:41,010 --> 03:01:43,010
She ran these algorithms algorithms

4098
03:01:43,010 --> 03:01:45,470
on portraits of white
and black NBA players.

4099
03:01:45,470 --> 03:01:47,310
And both of them consistently interpreted

4100
03:01:47,310 --> 03:01:49,380
the black players as having
more negative emotions

4101
03:01:49,380 --> 03:01:50,830
than the white players.

4102
03:01:50,830 --> 03:01:52,240
Imagine that there's a security guard

4103
03:01:52,240 --> 03:01:54,090
that gets information
from a surveillance camera

4104
03:01:54,090 --> 03:01:55,270
that this is possible nuisance

4105
03:01:55,270 --> 03:01:57,129
in the lobby of their building

4106
03:01:57,129 --> 03:01:59,060
because of the facial movements
that somebody is making.

4107
03:01:59,060 --> 03:02:00,660
Imagine a defendant in the courtroom

4108
03:02:00,660 --> 03:02:02,860
that scowling as they
concentrate on legal proceedings

4109
03:02:02,860 --> 03:02:05,350
but in emotion AI, based
on facial surveillance

4110
03:02:05,350 --> 03:02:07,500
tells the jury that
the defendant is angry.

4111
03:02:07,500 --> 03:02:08,910
Imagine that the defendant is black

4112
03:02:08,910 --> 03:02:10,920
and the AI says that they're contemptuous.

4113
03:02:10,920 --> 03:02:12,900
Imagine at worst, that police officer

4114
03:02:12,900 --> 03:02:14,660
receiving an alert from at a body camera

4115
03:02:14,660 --> 03:02:16,030
based on this technology

4116
03:02:16,030 --> 03:02:18,440
that says that someone in
their line of sight is a threat

4117
03:02:18,440 --> 03:02:21,410
based on a so-called
reading of their face.

4118
03:02:21,410 --> 03:02:24,220
Councilors I think that the question

4119
03:02:24,220 --> 03:02:25,190
that we should be thinking about

4120
03:02:25,190 --> 03:02:27,848
is whether we want someone
to use this technology on us

4121
03:02:27,848 --> 03:02:31,129
with the chance that it
would misinterpret our face

4122
03:02:31,129 --> 03:02:34,010
given the major chance
that it has of being wrong.

4123
03:02:34,010 --> 03:02:35,960
And I think the clear
answer to that is no.

4124
03:02:35,960 --> 03:02:38,220
We should ban facial
surveillance technologies

4125
03:02:38,220 --> 03:02:41,490
and all of these other
dangerous applications.

4126
03:02:41,490 --> 03:02:42,760
Thank you.

4127
03:02:42,760 --> 03:02:43,860
Thank you very much.

4128
03:02:43,860 --> 03:02:45,990
Next up is Danielle and
Danielle will be followed

4129
03:02:45,990 --> 03:02:48,703
by DJ Hatfield and Denise Horn.

4130
03:02:50,980 --> 03:02:53,110
Hi, good afternoon everybody.

4131
03:02:53,110 --> 03:02:55,068
My name is Danielle,
I'm a Boston resident,

4132
03:02:55,068 --> 03:02:57,448
I live in the north end.

4133
03:02:57,448 --> 03:03:00,980
I just wanted to fully support

4134
03:03:00,980 --> 03:03:03,927
and put my voice behind the ban

4135
03:03:03,927 --> 03:03:07,925
for facial recognition
recognition technology.

4136
03:03:07,925 --> 03:03:10,900
I feel as though the expert witnesses

4137
03:03:10,900 --> 03:03:13,210
and activists that have gone before me,

4138
03:03:13,210 --> 03:03:17,630
have clearly expressed and
eloquently expressed the views

4139
03:03:17,630 --> 03:03:19,230
that I also share.

4140
03:03:19,230 --> 03:03:22,863
I find this technology to
be incredibly dangerous.

4141
03:03:22,863 --> 03:03:25,620
As a cybersecurity professional,

4142
03:03:25,620 --> 03:03:27,390
I have a lot of questions about

4143
03:03:27,390 --> 03:03:32,350
what it means to be
collecting data on people

4144
03:03:32,350 --> 03:03:33,283
and storing it.

4145
03:03:34,210 --> 03:03:38,110
I certainly think that this is a measure

4146
03:03:38,110 --> 03:03:40,428
that should be taken to be a precedent

4147
03:03:40,428 --> 03:03:43,460
for all future developments
of the technology

4148
03:03:43,460 --> 03:03:44,750
as was just stated.

4149
03:03:44,750 --> 03:03:48,270
There are upcoming and new ways

4150
03:03:48,270 --> 03:03:52,490
to express facial recognition
through emotions or otherwise

4151
03:03:52,490 --> 03:03:56,160
that we can't even comprehend
yet because it hasn't started.

4152
03:03:56,160 --> 03:03:59,550
So I wanted to support it and
thank all the other people

4153
03:03:59,550 --> 03:04:01,290
for putting their voice behind it

4154
03:04:01,290 --> 03:04:04,483
and hope to see it take place, thank you.

4155
03:04:06,160 --> 03:04:07,567
Thank you very much, DJ.

4156
03:04:15,261 --> 03:04:17,860
Hi, will start the video.

4157
03:04:17,860 --> 03:04:19,690
So I'm DJ Hatfield.

4158
03:04:19,690 --> 03:04:23,350
I'm a professor of
anthropology and history

4159
03:04:23,350 --> 03:04:25,870
at the Berkeley College
of Music in Boston.

4160
03:04:25,870 --> 03:04:30,860
However, what I have to
say is as a private citizen

4161
03:04:30,860 --> 03:04:33,352
and a resident of east Boston,

4162
03:04:33,352 --> 03:04:37,509
that's a shout out to
Lydia, east Boston pride.

4163
03:04:37,509 --> 03:04:42,509
Yes, as an anthropologist I'm
aware that all technologies,

4164
03:04:42,750 --> 03:04:44,810
including digital technologies

4165
03:04:44,810 --> 03:04:47,100
reflect an augment the social structures

4166
03:04:47,100 --> 03:04:50,070
and systems of value of
particular societies.

4167
03:04:50,070 --> 03:04:51,870
They are not objective,

4168
03:04:51,870 --> 03:04:54,370
but reflect the biases of those societies

4169
03:04:54,370 --> 03:04:56,792
as they develop through history.

4170
03:04:56,792 --> 03:04:59,470
Moreover, if we look at societies

4171
03:04:59,470 --> 03:05:02,490
where facial recognition
has been widely deployed,

4172
03:05:02,490 --> 03:05:04,630
such as the People's Republic of China,

4173
03:05:04,630 --> 03:05:07,775
we see very clearly how these technologies

4174
03:05:07,775 --> 03:05:10,560
have been used systematically

4175
03:05:10,560 --> 03:05:13,063
to target marginal populations.

4176
03:05:14,590 --> 03:05:16,800
This is a quality of the weight

4177
03:05:16,800 --> 03:05:21,130
that these technologies
intersect with social systems

4178
03:05:21,130 --> 03:05:23,140
that act against people of color

4179
03:05:23,140 --> 03:05:25,363
and indigenous people, globally.

4180
03:05:26,430 --> 03:05:28,435
Therefore, in the city of Boston,

4181
03:05:28,435 --> 03:05:33,032
where we take pride in our civic freedoms,

4182
03:05:33,032 --> 03:05:36,590
we should be wary of technologies

4183
03:05:36,590 --> 03:05:39,920
that would make our Fourth
Amendment meaningless

4184
03:05:39,920 --> 03:05:41,720
and would erode the First Amendment.

4185
03:05:42,600 --> 03:05:45,150
Therefore, I would urge the city council

4186
03:05:45,150 --> 03:05:50,150
and the city of Boston
to pass a complete ban

4187
03:05:50,518 --> 03:05:54,970
on facial recognition
systems and technology,

4188
03:05:54,970 --> 03:05:58,630
with the amendments that have
been proposed by experts,

4189
03:05:58,630 --> 03:06:01,690
such as those of the
Electronic Freedom Foundation,

4190
03:06:01,690 --> 03:06:06,680
and the Algorithmic Justice League,

4191
03:06:06,680 --> 03:06:09,080
who have said there should be no exception

4192
03:06:09,080 --> 03:06:12,896
for the Boston Police Department
to use facial recognition

4193
03:06:12,896 --> 03:06:17,896
or surveillance systems in evidence,

4194
03:06:17,958 --> 03:06:20,970
in which there should be strict rules

4195
03:06:20,970 --> 03:06:24,420
for enforcement of breaches of this ban.

4196
03:06:24,420 --> 03:06:28,570
And finally, if possible,
extending this ban

4197
03:06:28,570 --> 03:06:31,380
to all private actors who have business

4198
03:06:31,380 --> 03:06:32,880
in the city of Boston.

4199
03:06:32,880 --> 03:06:34,350
Thank you for your consideration

4200
03:06:34,350 --> 03:06:35,960
and thank you for all your time today.

4201
03:06:35,960 --> 03:06:38,630
I appreciate being able to join

4202
03:06:38,630 --> 03:06:40,970
in my very first public hearing.

4203
03:06:40,970 --> 03:06:41,803
Thank you.

4204
03:06:41,803 --> 03:06:44,590
We are excited to have you at our hearing

4205
03:06:44,590 --> 03:06:47,290
and hope you'll come back, Denise next.

4206
03:06:47,290 --> 03:06:48,880
And then after Denise,

4207
03:06:48,880 --> 03:06:50,640
there are a few names assigned up

4208
03:06:50,640 --> 03:06:52,410
that I didn't see in the room.

4209
03:06:52,410 --> 03:06:55,200
So I'm gonna call out folks

4210
03:06:55,200 --> 03:06:57,350
that I was able to cross
reference between the waiting room

4211
03:06:57,350 --> 03:07:00,500
and the list, which was Charles Griswold

4212
03:07:00,500 --> 03:07:02,240
and Nora Paul-Schultz.

4213
03:07:02,240 --> 03:07:03,200
And then after that,

4214
03:07:03,200 --> 03:07:04,750
I'm gonna try to admit everyone else

4215
03:07:04,750 --> 03:07:06,795
who's in the room and go in order,

4216
03:07:06,795 --> 03:07:09,900
even if you weren't on the original list.

4217
03:07:09,900 --> 03:07:11,013
So Denise, please.

4218
03:07:12,670 --> 03:07:13,610
Thank you.

4219
03:07:13,610 --> 03:07:14,980
Thank you members of the council

4220
03:07:14,980 --> 03:07:16,900
and the lead sponsors of the ordinance

4221
03:07:16,900 --> 03:07:19,190
and the panelists, really
excellent commentary.

4222
03:07:19,190 --> 03:07:21,360
And I just have to say how impressed I am

4223
03:07:21,360 --> 03:07:25,020
with the Student Immigrant
Movement for showing up today,

4224
03:07:25,020 --> 03:07:26,613
this really impressive.

4225
03:07:26,613 --> 03:07:30,154
My name is Denise Horn, I'm
a resident of Jamaica Plain.

4226
03:07:30,154 --> 03:07:32,730
I'm also a professor of political science

4227
03:07:32,730 --> 03:07:35,430
and international relations
at Simmons University.

4228
03:07:35,430 --> 03:07:37,644
Although I am not representing
my institution today.

4229
03:07:37,644 --> 03:07:40,790
And I want to say that I support the ban

4230
03:07:40,790 --> 03:07:42,734
against the use of facial surveillance.

4231
03:07:42,734 --> 03:07:45,300
So, like professor Hatfield,

4232
03:07:45,300 --> 03:07:49,070
I am a scholar of international relations,

4233
03:07:49,070 --> 03:07:51,673
I have studied authoritarian
regimes in Eastern Europe

4234
03:07:51,673 --> 03:07:55,020
and east and southeast Asia,

4235
03:07:55,020 --> 03:07:57,567
where surveillance technologies
of every kind have been

4236
03:07:57,567 --> 03:08:00,620
and are used to target
enemies of the state.

4237
03:08:00,620 --> 03:08:03,427
In the United States we're
already seeing this language

4238
03:08:03,427 --> 03:08:05,010
in use by the leaders in our government,

4239
03:08:05,010 --> 03:08:06,240
regarding immigrants and activists,

4240
03:08:06,240 --> 03:08:09,532
and especially those who
are opposed to fascism.

4241
03:08:09,532 --> 03:08:11,770
I do not think that we
should underestimate

4242
03:08:11,770 --> 03:08:14,367
how this type of technology could be used

4243
03:08:14,367 --> 03:08:17,729
to further racists an
authoritarian agendas here.

4244
03:08:17,729 --> 03:08:21,250
The use of facial surveillance
is used to oppress

4245
03:08:21,250 --> 03:08:24,170
and control citizens under
the guise of public safety.

4246
03:08:24,170 --> 03:08:25,467
This is a slippery slope.

4247
03:08:25,467 --> 03:08:28,890
Government surveillance
is used to silence,

4248
03:08:28,890 --> 03:08:32,320
to suppress speech and
to violate human rights.

4249
03:08:32,320 --> 03:08:34,680
As an educator, I worry about this type,

4250
03:08:34,680 --> 03:08:37,630
how this type of technology will be used

4251
03:08:37,630 --> 03:08:40,910
to adversely affect the lives
of my students of color,

4252
03:08:40,910 --> 03:08:43,640
trans students, undocumented
students, activists

4253
03:08:43,640 --> 03:08:47,070
and marginalized groups,
their lives matter.

4254
03:08:47,070 --> 03:08:48,520
I strongly support this ban

4255
03:08:48,520 --> 03:08:50,483
and I thank you for letting me speak.

4256
03:08:52,380 --> 03:08:54,903
Thank you, Denise, Charles.

4257
03:08:55,830 --> 03:09:00,830
Yep, so I'm trying to start
the video here, there we are.

4258
03:09:02,828 --> 03:09:04,683
Can you see me and hear me?

4259
03:09:05,649 --> 03:09:08,420
Yes we can.
Okay, thank you.

4260
03:09:08,420 --> 03:09:11,543
My name is Charles Gridwold,
I'm a resident of Brighton

4261
03:09:11,543 --> 03:09:15,720
and I'm a philosophy professor
at Boston University.

4262
03:09:15,720 --> 03:09:18,873
I hasten to add that I'm
offering my thoughts here

4263
03:09:18,873 --> 03:09:21,220
and in offering my thoughts,

4264
03:09:21,220 --> 03:09:23,320
I am not speaking for my university

4265
03:09:23,320 --> 03:09:24,830
and not acting on his behalf.

4266
03:09:24,830 --> 03:09:26,708
So I'm speaking on my own behalf only.

4267
03:09:26,708 --> 03:09:29,640
I'm very grateful to all
of you on the council

4268
03:09:29,640 --> 03:09:31,772
for taking action on this matter

4269
03:09:31,772 --> 03:09:34,740
and to the police commissioner
for his impressive

4270
03:09:34,740 --> 03:09:36,532
and in some ways reassuring testimony.

4271
03:09:36,532 --> 03:09:39,370
It's imperative I think,

4272
03:09:39,370 --> 03:09:43,390
that you approve this ban on
facial recognition technology,

4273
03:09:43,390 --> 03:09:47,660
or rather technologies as we've
learned today by government

4274
03:09:47,660 --> 03:09:50,653
before the relevant software is upgraded.

4275
03:09:51,520 --> 03:09:52,690
So far as I can tell,

4276
03:09:52,690 --> 03:09:56,707
three arguments for the ban
have been discussed today.

4277
03:09:56,707 --> 03:10:00,050
The first two extensively
and the third a bit less so

4278
03:10:00,050 --> 03:10:02,991
and taken together, they
seem to me to be decisive

4279
03:10:02,991 --> 03:10:06,120
in making the case for the ban.

4280
03:10:06,120 --> 03:10:07,280
The first is of course

4281
03:10:07,280 --> 03:10:10,000
the matter of racial and gender justice,

4282
03:10:10,000 --> 03:10:12,090
on account of the fact that the technology

4283
03:10:12,090 --> 03:10:14,369
is known to be inaccurate.

4284
03:10:14,369 --> 03:10:18,400
But secondly, is the
fact that the technology

4285
03:10:18,400 --> 03:10:19,510
is objectionable.

4286
03:10:19,510 --> 03:10:21,160
Not just because it's not accurate,

4287
03:10:21,160 --> 03:10:23,250
but also when it is accurate,

4288
03:10:23,250 --> 03:10:26,960
as Kade Crockford has
eloquently argued today.

4289
03:10:26,960 --> 03:10:28,860
And that seems to me
to be an essential part

4290
03:10:28,860 --> 03:10:32,630
of the response to the
commissioner's remarks.

4291
03:10:32,630 --> 03:10:36,990
In some of the technology puts
tremendous additional power

4292
03:10:36,990 --> 03:10:39,410
in the hands of government and its agents,

4293
03:10:39,410 --> 03:10:42,120
all the more so when it actually does work

4294
03:10:42,120 --> 03:10:44,400
and our privacy among other things

4295
03:10:44,400 --> 03:10:46,750
is certainly threatened by that.

4296
03:10:46,750 --> 03:10:49,090
Where could that lead, look no further,

4297
03:10:49,090 --> 03:10:52,120
as people have suggested to the nightmare,

4298
03:10:52,120 --> 03:10:55,670
that is the surveillance
apparatus in China today.

4299
03:10:55,670 --> 03:10:58,890
The third point is, has been mentioned,

4300
03:10:58,890 --> 03:11:00,450
but it was less emphasized.

4301
03:11:00,450 --> 03:11:02,016
And I think it's just worth underlining,

4302
03:11:02,016 --> 03:11:04,000
which is that the awareness

4303
03:11:04,000 --> 03:11:07,890
of being personally tracked
outside of one's home

4304
03:11:07,890 --> 03:11:09,410
by this technology can,

4305
03:11:09,410 --> 03:11:11,660
and I think will have a chilling effect

4306
03:11:11,660 --> 03:11:14,150
on our exercise of our civil rights,

4307
03:11:14,150 --> 03:11:16,256
including our rights of free speech,

4308
03:11:16,256 --> 03:11:18,850
freedom of association and our religion.

4309
03:11:18,850 --> 03:11:23,240
So I strongly urge the
council to pass this ban,

4310
03:11:23,240 --> 03:11:25,712
but I also ask that you
will not stop there,

4311
03:11:25,712 --> 03:11:28,740
expand the band even further,

4312
03:11:28,740 --> 03:11:31,710
going forward to include other kinds

4313
03:11:31,710 --> 03:11:33,300
of remote surveillance systems,

4314
03:11:33,300 --> 03:11:35,070
such that are biometric for example,

4315
03:11:35,070 --> 03:11:36,947
a gate and voice recognition systems,

4316
03:11:36,947 --> 03:11:41,211
and also to the private
sector has been suggested.

4317
03:11:41,211 --> 03:11:46,140
So I hope that you will consider
expeditiously passing this,

4318
03:11:46,140 --> 03:11:48,270
but also going further.

4319
03:11:48,270 --> 03:11:49,800
Thank you so much for listening.

4320
03:11:49,800 --> 03:11:51,923
Thank you very much, Nora.

4321
03:11:53,900 --> 03:11:56,060
Good evening, my name
is Nora Paul-Schultz,

4322
03:11:56,060 --> 03:11:58,770
and I am a physics teacher
in Boston public schools.

4323
03:11:58,770 --> 03:12:01,940
And I've had the pleasure
of teaching Eli and Esmalda

4324
03:12:01,940 --> 03:12:03,960
who spoke earlier and
hopefully one day Angel.

4325
03:12:03,960 --> 03:12:06,530
And I'm a resident of Jamaica Plain.

4326
03:12:06,530 --> 03:12:09,300
As someone who studied
engineering when I was in college,

4327
03:12:09,300 --> 03:12:10,480
has taught engineering

4328
03:12:10,480 --> 03:12:13,080
and is one of the robotics
coaches at The O'Bryant,

4329
03:12:13,080 --> 03:12:14,760
I understand the impulse to feel like

4330
03:12:14,760 --> 03:12:17,360
technology can solve all of our problems.

4331
03:12:17,360 --> 03:12:20,450
I know that many for
many there is a desire

4332
03:12:20,450 --> 03:12:23,580
that if we have better
smarter and more technology

4333
03:12:23,580 --> 03:12:26,100
than our communities will be safer,

4334
03:12:26,100 --> 03:12:28,760
but the reality is that
technology is not perfect.

4335
03:12:28,760 --> 03:12:31,080
A perfect unbias tool,

4336
03:12:31,080 --> 03:12:33,410
as much as we wish it would be.

4337
03:12:33,410 --> 03:12:36,791
Our technologies reflect the
inherent biases of our makers.

4338
03:12:36,791 --> 03:12:39,952
So technology isn't going to save us.

4339
03:12:39,952 --> 03:12:44,650
If it does not take
much to see that racism

4340
03:12:44,650 --> 03:12:47,220
is infused in all parts of our country.

4341
03:12:47,220 --> 03:12:51,150
And that is true about the
facial surveillance technologies.

4342
03:12:51,150 --> 03:12:52,930
Through my work with Unafraid Educators,

4343
03:12:52,930 --> 03:12:55,010
the Boston Teacher Unions,

4344
03:12:55,010 --> 03:12:56,589
immigrant rights organizing committee,

4345
03:12:56,589 --> 03:12:59,860
the information sharing
between Boston School Police

4346
03:12:59,860 --> 03:13:02,080
and the Boston Police Department,

4347
03:13:02,080 --> 03:13:06,227
I know how detrimental observations
and surveillance can be.

4348
03:13:06,227 --> 03:13:07,940
Practices of surveillance

4349
03:13:07,940 --> 03:13:09,640
like camera recording in the hallway

4350
03:13:09,640 --> 03:13:13,429
or officers watching young
people are not passive.

4351
03:13:13,429 --> 03:13:15,430
Surveillance is active.

4352
03:13:15,430 --> 03:13:19,060
It leads to the creation
of law enforcement profiles

4353
03:13:19,060 --> 03:13:23,850
about young people and
that can impact their lives

4354
03:13:23,850 --> 03:13:25,797
in material ways for years to come.

4355
03:13:25,797 --> 03:13:29,770
And what of those impacts
being in the system,

4356
03:13:29,770 --> 03:13:32,410
can make it harder for
young people to get a job

4357
03:13:32,410 --> 03:13:33,400
or get housing.

4358
03:13:33,400 --> 03:13:36,920
It can lead to incarceration,
it can lead to deportation.

4359
03:13:36,920 --> 03:13:39,640
Our city government
does not need more tools

4360
03:13:39,640 --> 03:13:41,650
to profile the people of our city

4361
03:13:41,650 --> 03:13:44,960
and especially does doesn't need tools

4362
03:13:44,960 --> 03:13:46,480
that are inherently racist.

4363
03:13:46,480 --> 03:13:49,010
This is why the ban is so important.

4364
03:13:49,010 --> 03:13:51,850
Teaching has taught me
that what keeps us safe

4365
03:13:51,850 --> 03:13:54,190
is not having the government surveillance

4366
03:13:54,190 --> 03:13:55,960
and track us through technology,

4367
03:13:55,960 --> 03:13:58,160
what keeps us safe is
investing in housing,

4368
03:13:58,160 --> 03:13:59,810
education and healthcare.

4369
03:13:59,810 --> 03:14:03,247
This face surveillance
technology harms our community,

4370
03:14:03,247 --> 03:14:04,493
Ah!

4371
03:14:07,070 --> 03:14:08,549
Sorry.

4372
03:14:08,549 --> 03:14:13,549
This surveillance technology
harms our community.

4373
03:14:13,950 --> 03:14:16,170
The fact that the face ban technology

4374
03:14:16,170 --> 03:14:19,830
only identifies black women
correctly one third of the time

4375
03:14:19,830 --> 03:14:22,010
lays bare both the ineffectiveness

4376
03:14:22,010 --> 03:14:24,280
and implicit bias built into the system.

4377
03:14:24,280 --> 03:14:27,040
As a teacher I know that
that is not a passing grade.

4378
03:14:27,040 --> 03:14:29,010
We need money to go to services

4379
03:14:29,010 --> 03:14:30,988
that will protect our community,

4380
03:14:30,988 --> 03:14:33,110
and we need to stop and prevent

4381
03:14:33,110 --> 03:14:35,027
the use of ineffective racists

4382
03:14:35,027 --> 03:14:37,820
and money wasting technologies.

4383
03:14:37,820 --> 03:14:38,653
Thank you.

4384
03:14:40,660 --> 03:14:43,090
Thank you, Nora and we
appreciate all of your work.

4385
03:14:43,090 --> 03:14:45,987
I'm gonna quickly read the list of names

4386
03:14:45,987 --> 03:14:48,240
that were signed up to testify,

4387
03:14:48,240 --> 03:14:50,770
but I didn't see matches
of the names of folks

4388
03:14:50,770 --> 03:14:52,010
left in the waiting room.

4389
03:14:52,010 --> 03:14:54,360
So just in case you're assigning
it on a different name,

4390
03:14:54,360 --> 03:14:55,720
but I'm expecting that these folks

4391
03:14:55,720 --> 03:14:57,080
probably aren't here anymore.

4392
03:14:57,080 --> 03:15:00,770
Julie McNulty, Zachary
Lawn, McKenna Kavanaugh,

4393
03:15:00,770 --> 03:15:05,770
Christine Dordy, Sarah Nelson,
Andrew Tario, Amanda Meehan.

4394
03:15:05,830 --> 03:15:10,070
Chris Farone, Bridget
Shepherd, Lena Papagiannis.

4395
03:15:10,070 --> 03:15:14,673
Anyone here and signed on
under a different name?

4396
03:15:15,670 --> 03:15:17,130
Nope, okay.

4397
03:15:17,130 --> 03:15:18,620
Then I will just go on the order

4398
03:15:18,620 --> 03:15:21,540
of folks appearing on my
screen to close this out.

4399
03:15:21,540 --> 03:15:23,580
Thank you so much for your patience.

4400
03:15:23,580 --> 03:15:28,580
So that will be Mark G then Adeline Ansell

4401
03:15:28,890 --> 03:15:30,953
then Carolina Pena.

4402
03:15:34,190 --> 03:15:36,363
Yes, so this is Mark Gurvich,

4403
03:15:37,468 --> 03:15:39,300
I'm presenting testimony on behalf of

4404
03:15:40,332 --> 03:15:41,165
Jewish Voice for Peace,

4405
03:15:41,165 --> 03:15:42,570
a local and national organization

4406
03:15:42,570 --> 03:15:45,630
that's guided by Jewish
values, fighting racism,

4407
03:15:45,630 --> 03:15:49,300
sexism, Islamophobia, LGBTQ, oppression

4408
03:15:49,300 --> 03:15:51,870
and anti-immigrant policies here

4409
03:15:51,870 --> 03:15:53,630
and challenging racism, colonialism

4410
03:15:53,630 --> 03:15:55,350
and oppression everywhere,

4411
03:15:55,350 --> 03:15:58,290
with a focus on the injustices
suffered by Palestinians

4412
03:15:58,290 --> 03:16:01,010
under Israeli occupation and control.

4413
03:16:01,010 --> 03:16:04,237
In recent days in the U.S.
we have again witnessed

4414
03:16:04,237 --> 03:16:07,240
the impact of militarized policing

4415
03:16:07,240 --> 03:16:08,933
on communities of color.

4416
03:16:08,933 --> 03:16:13,500
Councilor Wu has pointed
out in a recent publication

4417
03:16:14,994 --> 03:16:17,473
about this militarization

4418
03:16:17,473 --> 03:16:20,370
and much of this
militarization has been through

4419
03:16:20,370 --> 03:16:23,700
the transfer of billions of
dollars worth of equipment

4420
03:16:23,700 --> 03:16:27,000
from the military to
civilian or police forces,

4421
03:16:27,000 --> 03:16:28,237
and the training of U.S. police

4422
03:16:28,237 --> 03:16:30,040
and the use of military tactics

4423
03:16:30,040 --> 03:16:31,710
in controlling the communities,

4424
03:16:31,710 --> 03:16:33,810
most heavily impacted by racism,

4425
03:16:33,810 --> 03:16:36,810
economic depletion, and health crises.

4426
03:16:36,810 --> 03:16:41,691
Our view is that the use of
facial recognition technology

4427
03:16:41,691 --> 03:16:46,250
is a key component of the
militarization of policing.

4428
03:16:46,250 --> 03:16:48,120
We know this because of our knowledge

4429
03:16:48,120 --> 03:16:50,180
and experience of the Israeli occupation

4430
03:16:50,180 --> 03:16:52,588
of Palestinian people in land.

4431
03:16:52,588 --> 03:16:57,588
Facial recognition is a core
feature of that occupation.

4432
03:16:58,830 --> 03:17:00,850
Much of the technology being marketed

4433
03:17:00,850 --> 03:17:02,500
to the U.S. law enforcement,

4434
03:17:02,500 --> 03:17:04,800
has been field tested on Palestinians

4435
03:17:04,800 --> 03:17:07,230
under military occupation.

4436
03:17:07,230 --> 03:17:09,180
At this historic and critical time,

4437
03:17:09,180 --> 03:17:12,110
when the effects of militarized
policing in the U.S.

4438
03:17:12,110 --> 03:17:15,950
has resulted in nationwide
and worldwide condemnation,

4439
03:17:15,950 --> 03:17:18,930
the very last thing we
need is another tool

4440
03:17:18,930 --> 03:17:22,770
adopted from the toolbox
of military occupation.

4441
03:17:22,770 --> 03:17:26,727
Jewish Voice for Peace, supports
the face surveillance ban.

4442
03:17:26,727 --> 03:17:28,810
Thank you.

4443
03:17:28,810 --> 03:17:30,230
Thank you very much.

4444
03:17:30,230 --> 03:17:33,033
Adeline or Adeline, sorry
to mispronounce your name.

4445
03:17:40,180 --> 03:17:41,013
Adeline Ansell.

4446
03:17:44,810 --> 03:17:47,833
We'll move on to Carolina
or Carolina Pena.

4447
03:17:56,380 --> 03:17:57,852
Let me see.

4448
03:17:57,852 --> 03:17:59,593
I will unmute on my own in case

4449
03:17:59,593 --> 03:18:01,573
it's a muting and unmuting issue.

4450
03:18:06,180 --> 03:18:09,030
Then we'll move on to Kristen Lyman.

4451
03:18:09,030 --> 03:18:11,510
Kristen will be followed by Galen bunting,

4452
03:18:11,510 --> 03:18:14,512
Maria Brincker and Araya Zack.

4453
03:18:14,512 --> 03:18:15,345
Kristin.

4454
03:18:28,140 --> 03:18:29,433
Okay, going to Galen,

4455
03:18:38,133 --> 03:18:39,383
Maria Brincker.

4456
03:18:46,010 --> 03:18:47,040
MARIA: Yes.

4457
03:18:47,040 --> 03:18:49,820
Hi, I had actually not
necessarily prepared.

4458
03:18:49,820 --> 03:18:53,209
Hello, can you hear me?

4459
03:18:53,209 --> 03:18:57,370
Adeline, will go to your
right right next up to Maria.

4460
03:18:57,370 --> 03:18:59,640
Sorry about the confusion.

4461
03:18:59,640 --> 03:19:01,928
ADELINE: Okay.
Okay, no problem.

4462
03:19:01,928 --> 03:19:05,284
So I just wanted to thank everybody

4463
03:19:05,284 --> 03:19:09,880
and I wanna say that I am very much,

4464
03:19:09,880 --> 03:19:12,690
I'm an associate professor at UMass Boston

4465
03:19:12,690 --> 03:19:15,773
and both as an educator,

4466
03:19:15,773 --> 03:19:20,246
and as a researcher in
issues of surveillance,

4467
03:19:20,246 --> 03:19:23,412
I am very much in favor of the ordinance.

4468
03:19:23,412 --> 03:19:26,233
I would like to say that,

4469
03:19:26,233 --> 03:19:31,233
I would also like the council
to consider wider regulations.

4470
03:19:31,280 --> 03:19:33,971
So as many have said before,

4471
03:19:33,971 --> 03:19:38,971
there's a lot of issues
also in the private sphere.

4472
03:19:39,970 --> 03:19:42,371
So this is a very important first step,

4473
03:19:42,371 --> 03:19:47,371
but a lot of the use of facial recognition

4474
03:19:48,078 --> 03:19:49,510
in law enforcement,

4475
03:19:49,510 --> 03:19:54,510
really interacts with the use
of surveillance technologies

4476
03:19:55,160 --> 03:19:56,770
in the private space.

4477
03:19:56,770 --> 03:20:01,200
So for example, when the
Brooklyn Police Department

4478
03:20:01,200 --> 03:20:04,403
were trying to argue
against the Brooklyn ban,

4479
03:20:08,270 --> 03:20:13,270
they used an example of
police using Snapchat.

4480
03:20:13,892 --> 03:20:18,330
So a lot of speakers before
have talked about the importance

4481
03:20:18,330 --> 03:20:20,330
of anonymity in public space,

4482
03:20:20,330 --> 03:20:22,540
and I'm fully in support of that,

4483
03:20:22,540 --> 03:20:25,520
but this is not only about public space.

4484
03:20:25,520 --> 03:20:27,860
So the use of facial recognition software

4485
03:20:27,860 --> 03:20:31,140
is of course invading all
our private spaces as well.

4486
03:20:31,140 --> 03:20:35,210
So I would like people
to be aware of that.

4487
03:20:35,210 --> 03:20:36,980
And as a teacher right now,

4488
03:20:36,980 --> 03:20:40,032
with the epidemic teaching on Zoom,

4489
03:20:40,032 --> 03:20:45,032
you can only imagine
the deployment of voice

4490
03:20:47,410 --> 03:20:52,373
and face recognition in all our spaces.

4491
03:20:52,373 --> 03:20:54,730
And so I think this is very important.

4492
03:20:54,730 --> 03:20:55,563
And another thing,

4493
03:20:55,563 --> 03:20:57,940
my background is also in
philosophy of neuroscience

4494
03:20:57,940 --> 03:21:02,050
and in the understanding
of autonomous action.

4495
03:21:02,050 --> 03:21:05,760
And autonomous action
depends on being in a space

4496
03:21:05,760 --> 03:21:07,580
that we can understand.

4497
03:21:07,580 --> 03:21:09,830
And one of the reasons
why facial recognition

4498
03:21:09,830 --> 03:21:12,691
is one of the most dangerous inventions,

4499
03:21:12,691 --> 03:21:17,691
is that it precisely ruins
the integrity of any space

4500
03:21:17,933 --> 03:21:20,231
because we don't know who's there

4501
03:21:20,231 --> 03:21:24,053
and it can do so retroactively.

4502
03:21:25,120 --> 03:21:29,230
So I thank you very much
for all your work on this,

4503
03:21:29,230 --> 03:21:32,400
and I'm fully in support of
the ordinance, thank you.

4504
03:21:32,400 --> 03:21:33,400
Thank you so much.

4505
03:21:34,530 --> 03:21:36,420
Okay, next we'll go to Adeline

4506
03:21:39,140 --> 03:21:41,413
Hi, I'm Adeline Ansell.

4507
03:21:42,620 --> 03:21:45,480
I was just coming out to
support the ordinance as member

4508
03:21:45,480 --> 03:21:47,360
of the Unafraid Educators group

4509
03:21:47,360 --> 03:21:49,780
of the Boston Teachers Union,

4510
03:21:49,780 --> 03:21:51,790
to protect our immigrant students

4511
03:21:51,790 --> 03:21:53,924
and who have been
advocating for themselves

4512
03:21:53,924 --> 03:21:56,750
through the Student Immigrant Movement

4513
03:21:56,750 --> 03:21:58,950
to support this ordinance

4514
03:21:58,950 --> 03:22:03,022
banning facial recognition technology,

4515
03:22:03,022 --> 03:22:06,944
because it puts our
students more so at risk.

4516
03:22:06,944 --> 03:22:10,930
And I don't have a lot to add.

4517
03:22:10,930 --> 03:22:12,400
I just wanna support
the work they're doing

4518
03:22:12,400 --> 03:22:14,030
in their student advocacy.

4519
03:22:14,030 --> 03:22:15,750
And I know they all spoke for themselves

4520
03:22:15,750 --> 03:22:17,670
and in their allies did as well,

4521
03:22:17,670 --> 03:22:20,460
and just wanted to let you
know that Boston teachers

4522
03:22:20,460 --> 03:22:23,350
also support this ban.

4523
03:22:23,350 --> 03:22:26,500
So thank you for listening
to all of their testimony

4524
03:22:26,500 --> 03:22:29,470
and know that the teachers
are on their side too,

4525
03:22:29,470 --> 03:22:32,650
and that we support this
ordinance, thank you.

4526
03:22:32,650 --> 03:22:33,990
Thank you.

4527
03:22:33,990 --> 03:22:35,600
Okay, last call.

4528
03:22:35,600 --> 03:22:38,410
Either Carolina or Galen

4529
03:22:38,410 --> 03:22:40,260
or anyone else who would like to speak.

4530
03:22:40,260 --> 03:22:43,123
I think everyone's been admitted
from the waiting room now.

4531
03:22:45,570 --> 03:22:46,890
Okay, seeing no takers,

4532
03:22:46,890 --> 03:22:49,410
I'll pass it back if any councilors

4533
03:22:49,410 --> 03:22:52,193
wish to make a closing
statement before we wrap up.

4534
03:22:55,503 --> 03:22:58,860
I see I'll save councilor Arroyo
for right before we close,

4535
03:22:58,860 --> 03:23:00,820
councilor Annissa Essaibi-George.

4536
03:23:00,820 --> 03:23:02,960
Thank you madam chair at this point

4537
03:23:02,960 --> 03:23:04,920
and thank you to you and council Arroyo

4538
03:23:04,920 --> 03:23:06,800
for bringing this before the council.

4539
03:23:06,800 --> 03:23:11,350
I've really appreciated
everyone's testimony today

4540
03:23:11,350 --> 03:23:13,130
in both hearings and sort of the,

4541
03:23:13,130 --> 03:23:15,664
certainly a very direct correlation

4542
03:23:15,664 --> 03:23:17,210
between some of the testimony today,

4543
03:23:17,210 --> 03:23:19,480
but a particular interest of mine

4544
03:23:19,480 --> 03:23:21,574
was the testimony of the young people

4545
03:23:21,574 --> 03:23:23,290
and the testimony of the teachers,

4546
03:23:23,290 --> 03:23:25,270
in particular...

4547
03:23:25,270 --> 03:23:27,864
So just thank you, thank you both.

4548
03:23:27,864 --> 03:23:32,020
Thank you councilor Wu for
staying after the chair

4549
03:23:32,020 --> 03:23:34,010
had to leave to extend an opportunity

4550
03:23:34,010 --> 03:23:36,030
for this continued testimony.

4551
03:23:36,030 --> 03:23:40,350
It was certainly important testimony,

4552
03:23:40,350 --> 03:23:43,730
but just the fact that everyone stayed on

4553
03:23:43,730 --> 03:23:45,970
as long as they did to
offer that testimony,

4554
03:23:45,970 --> 03:23:48,380
I think is really important to recognize,

4555
03:23:48,380 --> 03:23:50,846
and to be grateful for that engagement.

4556
03:23:50,846 --> 03:23:53,119
And thank you to you and
thank you to the maker.

4557
03:23:53,119 --> 03:23:54,420
Thank you councilor

4558
03:23:54,420 --> 03:23:58,237
and final closing words from
my co-sponsor councilor Arroyo.

4559
03:23:59,890 --> 03:24:03,250
Just a sincere thank you to our panelists.

4560
03:24:03,250 --> 03:24:04,680
I think many of them are off now,

4561
03:24:04,680 --> 03:24:07,210
but thank you so much to them

4562
03:24:07,210 --> 03:24:08,988
and everybody who gave testimony,

4563
03:24:08,988 --> 03:24:11,610
much of that was deeply moving.

4564
03:24:11,610 --> 03:24:13,170
Certainly Angel was a highlight.

4565
03:24:13,170 --> 03:24:14,630
So thank you Angel,

4566
03:24:14,630 --> 03:24:17,450
and anybody who can get
that message to Angel,

4567
03:24:17,450 --> 03:24:18,900
I'm not sure if it's bedtime.

4568
03:24:20,105 --> 03:24:22,155
Thank you so much for raising your voices

4569
03:24:22,998 --> 03:24:25,710
and really being focused
at a real municipal level.

4570
03:24:25,710 --> 03:24:28,047
This is what we've always asked for.

4571
03:24:28,047 --> 03:24:30,900
This is what I grew up about Angel's age,

4572
03:24:30,900 --> 03:24:32,180
watching these meetings

4573
03:24:32,180 --> 03:24:34,820
and having folks basically beg

4574
03:24:34,820 --> 03:24:38,090
for this kind of interaction
from our communities.

4575
03:24:38,090 --> 03:24:39,810
And so I'm just deeply grateful

4576
03:24:39,810 --> 03:24:43,030
that whatever brought
you here specifically,

4577
03:24:43,030 --> 03:24:44,360
I hope you stay engaged.

4578
03:24:44,360 --> 03:24:46,690
I hope you bring this
energy to other issues

4579
03:24:46,690 --> 03:24:50,010
that really affect our
communities on a daily basis

4580
03:24:50,010 --> 03:24:51,530
because it really makes change.

4581
03:24:51,530 --> 03:24:53,426
It really changes things.

4582
03:24:53,426 --> 03:24:56,490
And so thank you so much to
everybody who took part in this,

4583
03:24:56,490 --> 03:24:59,080
thank you to all the
advocates as a part of this.

4584
03:24:59,080 --> 03:25:01,140
Thank you councilor Wu for making sure

4585
03:25:02,011 --> 03:25:03,766
that there was a chair here

4586
03:25:03,766 --> 03:25:06,547
and to councilor Edwards first
running it so well earlier.

4587
03:25:06,547 --> 03:25:07,620
But thank you to you for ensuring

4588
03:25:07,620 --> 03:25:09,670
that we can continue to
hear public testimony

4589
03:25:09,670 --> 03:25:11,735
because it really is valuable.

4590
03:25:11,735 --> 03:25:13,920
So with that, I thought
that was all very valuable.

4591
03:25:13,920 --> 03:25:15,050
And also thank you to the commissioner

4592
03:25:15,050 --> 03:25:16,400
for taking the time to be here

4593
03:25:16,400 --> 03:25:19,770
and to really endorse this idea.

4594
03:25:19,770 --> 03:25:20,830
I thought that was fantastic.

4595
03:25:20,830 --> 03:25:21,663
So thank you.

4596
03:25:23,347 --> 03:25:26,620
Thank you, this is a great, great hearing.

4597
03:25:26,620 --> 03:25:28,260
I think we all learned so much

4598
03:25:28,260 --> 03:25:31,460
and I wanna echo the
thanks to the commissioner,

4599
03:25:31,460 --> 03:25:33,840
all the community members who
gave feedback along the way

4600
03:25:33,840 --> 03:25:37,370
and over this evening, my
colleagues, the commissioner,

4601
03:25:37,370 --> 03:25:39,440
and of course, central staff,

4602
03:25:39,440 --> 03:25:43,190
or for making sure all of it
went off very, very smoothly.

4603
03:25:43,190 --> 03:25:45,390
So we'll circle back up
with the committee chair

4604
03:25:45,390 --> 03:25:49,270
and figure out next steps,
but hoping for swift passage.

4605
03:25:49,270 --> 03:25:51,360
And I'm very grateful again,

4606
03:25:51,360 --> 03:25:54,290
that we have an opportunity
in Boston to take action.

4607
03:25:54,290 --> 03:25:58,350
So this will conclude our
hearing on docket number 0683,

4608
03:25:58,350 --> 03:26:01,220
on an ordinance banning
facial recognition technology

4609
03:26:01,220 --> 03:26:02,090
in Boston.

4610
03:26:02,090 --> 03:26:04,125
This hearing is adjourned.

4611
03:26:04,125 --> 03:26:05,124
[gravel strikes]

4612
03:26:05,124 --> 03:26:06,874
Bye, see you.
Bye.