0:00:00.000,0:00:09.390
silent 30C3 preroll titles
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applause[br]Herald: Alright!
0:00:15.839,0:00:18.870
Good evening, everybody.
0:00:18.870,0:00:21.349
The ‘Saal’ is pretty full?[br]So I guess this is gonna be
0:00:21.349,0:00:26.050
an interesting talk.[br]We are on a tight schedule.
0:00:26.050,0:00:31.550
Our speaker, Jake Appelbaum is gonna be[br]joined by Julian Assange via video stream.
0:00:31.550,0:00:35.480
I really hope that’s gonna work.
0:00:35.480,0:00:40.220
So without further ado – please[br]welcome our speaker and… have fun!
0:00:40.220,0:00:52.490
applause, some cheers
0:00:52.490,0:00:55.600
Jacob Appelbaum: So we have a surprise[br]guest. Some of you might know her.
0:00:55.600,0:00:58.680
She saved Edward Snowden’s life.[br]Her name is Sarah Harrison.
0:00:58.680,0:01:06.970
applause and loud cheers
0:01:06.970,0:01:15.329
Jacob applauding as Sarah prepares
0:01:15.329,0:01:57.499
continued applause
0:01:57.499,0:02:00.630
Sarah Harrison: Thank you.[br]she and Jacob laugh
0:02:00.630,0:02:04.230
laughter[br]one shout from audience
0:02:04.230,0:02:09.418
Good evening. My name is Sarah[br]Harrison as you all appear to know.
0:02:09.418,0:02:14.550
I’m a journalist working for Wikileaks.[br]This year I was part – as Jacob just said –
0:02:14.550,0:02:17.780
of the Wikileaks team that saved[br]Snowden from a life in prison.
0:02:17.780,0:02:21.870
This act, and my job has meant that[br]our legal advice is that I do not return
0:02:21.870,0:02:26.260
to my home, the United Kingdom, due to[br]the ongoing terrorism investigation there,
0:02:26.260,0:02:29.430
in relation to the movement of[br]Edward Snowden documents.
0:02:29.430,0:02:33.190
The U.K. Government has chosen to[br]define disclosing classified documents
0:02:33.190,0:02:37.580
with an intent to influence Government[br]behaviour as terrorism. I’m therefore
0:02:37.580,0:02:42.030
currently remaining in Germany. But[br]it’s not just myself, personally, that has
0:02:42.030,0:02:46.110
legal issues of Wikileaks. For a fourth[br]Christmas, our editor Julian Assange
0:02:46.110,0:02:50.090
continues to be detained without charge[br]in the U.K. He’s been granted formal
0:02:50.090,0:02:53.950
political asylum by Ecuador due to[br]the threat from the United States.
0:02:53.950,0:02:57.950
But in breach of international law the[br]U.K. continues to refuse to allow him
0:02:57.950,0:03:02.970
his legal right to take up this asylum.[br]In November of this year,
0:03:02.970,0:03:07.760
a U.S. Government official confirmed that[br]the enormous Grand Jury investigation
0:03:07.760,0:03:13.350
which commenced in 2010 into Wikileaks,[br]its stuff and specifically Julian Assange
0:03:13.350,0:03:18.000
continues. This was then confirmed by the[br]spokesperson of the prosecutor’s office
0:03:18.000,0:03:23.210
in Virginia. The Icelandic Parliament[br]held an inquiry earlier this year where it
0:03:23.210,0:03:28.150
found that the FBI had secretly and[br]unlawfully sent nine agents to Iceland
0:03:28.150,0:03:32.930
to conduct an investigation into Wikileaks[br]there. Further secret interrogations
0:03:32.930,0:03:37.120
took place in Denmark and Washington.[br]The informant they were speaking with
0:03:37.120,0:03:41.930
has been charged with fraud and[br]convicted on other charges in Iceland.
0:03:41.930,0:03:45.650
In the Icelandic Supreme Court we won[br]a substantial victory over the extra-legal
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U.S. financial blockade that was erected[br]against us in 2010 by Visa, Mastercard,
0:03:51.300,0:03:56.120
Paypal and other U.S. financial giants.[br]Subsequently, Mastercard pulled out
0:03:56.120,0:04:01.320
of the blockade. We’ve since filed[br]a $77 million legal case against Visa
0:04:01.320,0:04:07.700
for damages. We filed a suit against Visa[br]in Denmark as well. And in response
0:04:07.700,0:04:12.480
to questions about how Paypal’s owner can[br]start a free press outlet whilst blocking
0:04:12.480,0:04:15.790
another media organization, he has[br]announced that the PayPal blockade
0:04:15.790,0:04:20.419
of Wikileaks has ended.
0:04:20.419,0:04:21.879
applause
0:04:21.879,0:04:27.819
That wasn’t meant to be a pause for your[br]clap, I just needed some water. Sorry!
0:04:27.819,0:04:31.210
We filed criminal cases in Sweden and[br]Germany in relation to the unlawful
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Intelligence activity against us there,[br]including at the CCC in 2009.
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Together with the Center for Constitutional[br]Rights we filed a suit against the
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U.S. military, against the unprecedented[br]secrecy applied to Chelsea Manning’s
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trial. Yet through these attacks we’ve[br]continued our publishing work. In April
0:04:49.770,0:04:53.479
of this year, we launched the Public Library[br]of U.S. Diplomacy, the largest and
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most comprehensive searchable database[br]of U.S. diplomatic cables in the world.
0:04:57.860,0:05:02.919
This coincided with our release of 1.7[br]million U.S. cables from the Kissinger period.
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We launched our third Spy Files, 249[br]documents from 92 global Intelligence
0:05:07.770,0:05:13.400
contractors exposing their technology,[br]methods, and contracts. We completed
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releasing the Global Intelligence Files,[br]over five million emails from U.S. Intelligence
0:05:18.180,0:05:21.849
firm Stratfor, the revelations from which[br]included documenting their spying
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on activists around the globe. We[br]published the primary negotiating
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positions for 14 countries of[br]the Trans-Pacific Partnership,
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a new international legal regime that[br]would control 40% of the world’s GDP.
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As well as getting Snowden asylum, we set[br]up Mr. Snowden’s defence fund, part of
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a broader endeavor, the Journalistic[br]Source Protection Defence Fund, which aims
0:05:44.449,0:05:48.620
to protect and fund sources in trouble.[br]This will be an important fund for
0:05:48.620,0:05:52.650
future sources, especially when we look[br]at the U.S. crackdown on whistleblowers
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like Snowden and alleged Wikileaks source[br]Chelsea Manning who was sentenced
0:05:56.710,0:06:01.540
this year to 35 years in prison, and[br]another alleged Wikileaks source
0:06:01.540,0:06:06.519
Jeremy Hammond, who was sentenced to ten[br]years in prison this November. These men
0:06:06.519,0:06:11.490
– Snowden, Manning and Hammond – are[br]prime examples of a politicized youth
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who have grown up with a free internet[br]and want to keep it that way.
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It is this class of people that we[br]are here to discuss this evening,
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the powers they and we all have, and can[br]have, and the good that we can do with it.
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I’m joined here tonight for this[br]discussion by two men I admire hugely:
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– hopefully one of them will appear soon –[br]laughs
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Wikileaks editor-in-chief Julian Assange[br]and Jacob Appelbaum, both who have had
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a long history in defending our right[br]to knowledge, despite political
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and legal pressure. There he is![br]laughs
0:06:43.760,0:06:59.519
applause and cheers
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So, Julian, saying as I haven’t[br]seen you for quite a while,
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what’s been happening in this field[br]this year? What’s your strategic view
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about it, this fight for[br]freedom of knowledge?
0:07:10.180,0:07:12.859
Are we winning or are we losing?
0:07:12.859,0:07:15.720
Julian Assange: via A/V connection, on screen[br]Well, I have an 18-page speech
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on the strategic vision. But I think[br]I’ve got about five> minutes, right?
0:07:19.909,0:07:21.659
coughs[br]Sarah: At the most!
0:07:21.659,0:07:26.379
No, less? Okay. Well, first off,
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it’s very interesting to see[br]the CCC has grown by 30%
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over the last year. And we can see the CCC
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as a very important type of institution
0:07:43.400,0:07:47.590
which does have analogues(?).[br]The CCC is a paradox
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in that it has the vibrancy of a young[br]movement, but also now has been going
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nearly 30 years since its founding[br]in 1981 by Wau Holland and others.
0:07:59.039,0:08:01.910
video transmission stops/freezes
0:08:01.910,0:08:08.530
Sarah: laughs Great point, great point.[br]laughter
0:08:08.530,0:08:10.790
Jacob: Blame the NSA![br]Sarah: He, heh?
0:08:10.790,0:08:12.710
Jacob: Blame the NSA![br]Sarah laughs
0:08:12.710,0:08:14.620
So, the new “blame Canada”![br]Sounds of Skype, reconnecting
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Sarah: Is it here or the embassy[br]that they’re spying on the most?
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laughter[br]ongoing sounds of Skype reconnecting
0:08:32.899,0:08:37.490
Hey, such a good talk, isn’t it, guys?[br]she laughs
0:08:37.490,0:08:39.970
Jacob: I wish Bruce Willis [Assange's[br]Skype name] would pick up the phone!
0:08:39.970,0:08:45.400
laughter
0:08:45.400,0:08:50.460
Sarah: Should we move over while we’re[br]waiting to you, Jake? As I said, I got…
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I think that it’s quite interesting, it[br]does seem to be a trend that there are
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these young, technical people. We look[br]at Manning, Snowden, Hammond…
0:08:57.760,0:09:01.180
often sysadmins. Why are they playing[br]such an important role in this fight
0:09:01.180,0:09:03.180
for freedom of information?
0:09:03.180,0:09:05.970
Jacob: Well, so, I think there are[br]a couple of important points.
0:09:05.970,0:09:11.150
The first important point is to understand[br]that all of us have agency, but some of us
0:09:11.150,0:09:14.890
actually literately have more agency than[br]others in the sense that you have access
0:09:14.890,0:09:20.070
to systems that give you access to[br]information that help to found knowledge
0:09:20.070,0:09:25.350
that you have in your own head. So someone[br]like Manning or someone like Snowden
0:09:25.350,0:09:28.610
who has access to these documents in[br]the course of their work, they will simply
0:09:28.610,0:09:32.260
have a better understanding of what is[br]actually happening. They have access
0:09:32.260,0:09:37.100
to the primary source documents.[br]That’s part of their job. This, I think,
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fundamentally is a really critical,[br]I would say a formative thing.
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When you start to read these original[br]source documents you start to understand
0:09:46.070,0:09:50.320
the way that organizations actually think[br]internally. I mean, this is one of the things
0:09:50.320,0:09:53.920
that Julian Assange has said quite a lot,[br]it’s that when you read the internal
0:09:53.920,0:09:57.280
documents of an organization, that’s how[br]they really think about a thing. This is
0:09:57.280,0:10:00.640
different than a press release. And people[br]who have grown up on the internet,
0:10:00.640,0:10:04.640
and they’re essentially natives on the[br]internet, and that’s all of us, I think,
0:10:04.640,0:10:09.380
for the most part. It’s definitely me.[br]That essentially forms a way
0:10:09.380,0:10:12.240
of thinking about organizations where[br]the official thing that they say
0:10:12.240,0:10:15.550
is not interesting. You know that[br]there is an agenda behind that
0:10:15.550,0:10:19.330
and you don’t necessarily know what[br]that true agenda is. And so people
0:10:19.330,0:10:23.230
who grow up in this and see these[br]documents, they realise the agency
0:10:23.230,0:10:26.180
that they have. They understand it, they[br]see that power, and they want to do
0:10:26.180,0:10:31.570
something about it, in some cases. Some[br]people do it in small starts and fits.
0:10:31.570,0:10:34.590
So there are lots of sources for lots[br]of newspapers that are inside of
0:10:34.590,0:10:38.480
defense organizations or really, really[br]large companies, and they share
0:10:38.480,0:10:43.970
this information. But in the case of[br]Chelsea Manning, in the case of Snowden
0:10:43.970,0:10:49.060
they went big. And I presume that this is[br]because of the scale of the wrongdoing
0:10:49.060,0:10:52.750
that they saw, in addition to the[br]amount of agency that was provided
0:10:52.750,0:10:56.350
by their access and by their[br]understanding of the actual information
0:10:56.350,0:11:00.480
they were able to have[br]in their possession.
0:11:00.480,0:11:04.930
Sarah: And do you think that it has[br]something to do with being technical
0:11:04.930,0:11:08.350
they have a potential[br]ability to find a way to do this
0:11:08.350,0:11:12.730
safer than other people, perhaps? Or…
0:11:12.730,0:11:17.450
Jacob: I mean, it’s clearly the case that[br]this helps. There’s no question that
0:11:17.450,0:11:21.490
understanding how to use those computer[br]systems and being able to navigate them,
0:11:21.490,0:11:24.500
that that is going to be a helpful skill.[br]But I think what it really is is that
0:11:24.500,0:11:28.670
these are people who grew up in an era,[br]and I myself am one of these people,
0:11:28.670,0:11:32.260
where we grew up in an era where we’re[br]overloaded by information but we still
0:11:32.260,0:11:36.330
are able to absorb a great deal of it.[br]And we really are constantly going
0:11:36.330,0:11:40.380
through this. And if we look to the past,[br]we see that it’s not just technical people,
0:11:40.380,0:11:44.060
it’s actually people who have an[br]analytical mind. So e.g. Daniel Ellsberg,
0:11:44.060,0:11:48.500
who is famous for the ‘Ellsberg Paradox’.[br]He was of course a very seriously
0:11:48.500,0:11:52.360
embedded person in the U.S. military.[br]He was in the RAND corporation,
0:11:52.360,0:11:55.430
he worked with McNamara.[br]And during the Vietnam War
0:11:55.430,0:11:59.980
he had access to huge amounts of[br]information. And it was the ability
0:11:59.980,0:12:04.120
to analyze this information[br]and to understand, in this case
0:12:04.120,0:12:08.230
how the U.S. Government during the[br]Vietnam War was lying to the entire world.
0:12:08.230,0:12:12.450
And it was the magnitude of those lies[br]combined with the ability to prove that
0:12:12.450,0:12:18.040
they were lies that, I believe, combined[br]with his analytical skill it was clear
0:12:18.040,0:12:22.370
what the action might be. But it wasn’t[br]clear what the outcome would be.
0:12:22.370,0:12:25.980
And with Ellsberg, the outcome was[br]a very positive one. In fact it’s
0:12:25.980,0:12:28.820
the most positive outcome for any[br]whistleblower so far that I know of
0:12:28.820,0:12:32.100
in the history of the United States[br]and maybe even in the world.
0:12:32.100,0:12:36.070
What we see right now with Snowden and[br]what we’ve now seen with Chelsea Manning
0:12:36.070,0:12:39.490
is unfortunately a very different[br]outcome, at least for Manning.
0:12:39.490,0:12:45.190
So this is also a hugely important[br]point which is that Ellsberg did this
0:12:45.190,0:12:50.040
in the context of resistance against the[br]Vietnam War. And when Ellsberg did this,
0:12:50.040,0:12:54.050
there were huge support networks, there[br]were gigantic things that split across
0:12:54.050,0:12:59.840
all political spectrums of society.[br]And so it is the analytical framework
0:12:59.840,0:13:03.380
that we find ourselves with, still;[br]but additionally with the internet.
0:13:03.380,0:13:06.930
And so every single person here[br]that works as a sysadmin, could you
0:13:06.930,0:13:14.260
raise your hand? Right. You represent[br]– and I’m sorry to steal Julian’s thunder,
0:13:14.260,0:13:23.520
but he was using Skype, and… well…[br]laughter and applause
0:13:23.520,0:13:26.740
But we all know Skype has interception[br]and man-in-the-middle problems, so…
0:13:26.740,0:13:33.060
I’m gonna take advantage of that fact. You[br]see, it’s not just the NSA. Everyone that
0:13:33.060,0:13:38.870
raised their hand, you should raise your[br]hand again! If you work at a company
0:13:38.870,0:13:41.480
where you think that they might be[br]involved in something that is
0:13:41.480,0:13:47.020
a little bit scary, keep your hand up![br]laughter
0:13:47.020,0:13:52.950
Right. So here’s the deal: everybody else[br]in the room lacks the information that
0:13:52.950,0:13:57.380
you probably have access to. And if you[br]were to make a moral judgment, if you
0:13:57.380,0:14:01.090
were to make an ethical consideration[br]about these things, it would be the case
0:14:01.090,0:14:05.420
that as a political class you would[br]be able to inform all of the other
0:14:05.420,0:14:08.910
political classes in this room, all of the[br]other people in this room, in a way that
0:14:08.910,0:14:13.970
only you have the agency to do. And those[br]who benefit from you never doing that,
0:14:13.970,0:14:18.190
or the other people that have that. Those[br]people also are members of other classes
0:14:18.190,0:14:22.060
as well. And so the question is: If you[br]were to unite as a political class,
0:14:22.060,0:14:25.320
and we are to unite with you in that[br]political class, we can see that there’s
0:14:25.320,0:14:30.970
a contextual way to view this through[br]a historical lens, essentially.
0:14:30.970,0:14:33.820
Which is to say that when the[br]industrialized workers of the world
0:14:33.820,0:14:38.680
decided that race and gender were not[br]lines that we should split on, but instead
0:14:38.680,0:14:43.730
we should look at workers and owners, then[br]we started to see real change in the way
0:14:43.730,0:14:47.970
that workers were treated and in the way[br]that the world itself was organizing labor.
0:14:47.970,0:14:51.780
And this was a hugely important change[br]during the Industrial Revolution.
0:14:51.780,0:14:55.470
And we are going through a very similar[br]time now with regard to information
0:14:55.470,0:15:02.280
politics and with regard to the value[br]of information in our information age.
0:15:02.280,0:15:09.490
Skype connection being re-established[br]applause
0:15:09.490,0:15:15.270
Skype connection just terminates again[br]laughter
0:15:15.270,0:15:18.880
Jacob: Fantastic, Bruce Willis!
0:15:18.880,0:15:23.950
laughter
0:15:23.950,0:15:28.490
Hahahaha! Jesus Christ,[br]Julian, use Jitsy already!
0:15:28.490,0:15:36.250
laughter, applause and cheers
0:15:36.250,0:15:39.660
Sarah: And so, we’ve identified the[br]potential of the people that you were
0:15:39.660,0:15:43.500
talking about. So you’ve spoken about[br]how it’s good for them to unite.
0:15:43.500,0:15:47.020
What are the next steps? How do they come[br]forth? How do they share this information?
0:15:47.020,0:15:51.180
Jacob: Well, let’s consider a couple of[br]things. First is that Bradley Manning
0:15:51.180,0:15:58.720
– now Chelsea Manning, Daniel Ellsberg[br]– still Daniel Ellsberg, Edward Snowden
0:15:58.720,0:16:01.690
– living in exile in Russia, unfortunately…
0:16:01.690,0:16:05.520
Sarah: …still Edward Snowden![br]Jacob: Still Edward Snowden! Hopefully.
0:16:05.520,0:16:07.940
Sarah laughs[br]These are people who have taken
0:16:07.940,0:16:13.470
great actions where they did not even set[br]out to sacrifice themselves. But once
0:16:13.470,0:16:16.930
when I met Daniel Ellsberg he said:[br]“Wouldn’t you go to prison for the rest
0:16:16.930,0:16:20.610
of your life to end this war?” This is[br]something he asked me, and he asked it
0:16:20.610,0:16:24.050
to me quite seriously. And it’s very[br]incredible to be able to ask
0:16:24.050,0:16:26.040
a hypothetical question…[br]Skype ringing out
0:16:26.040,0:16:31.880
…of someone. That wasn’t a hypothetical[br]question! What he was trying to say is
0:16:31.880,0:16:35.640
that right now you can make a choice in[br]which you can actually have a huge impact,
0:16:35.640,0:16:38.780
should you chose to take on that risk.[br]But the point is not to set out
0:16:38.780,0:16:41.530
to martyr yourself.[br]The point is to set out…
0:16:41.530,0:16:43.910
Are you gonna stick[br]around this time, Julian?
0:16:43.910,0:16:48.020
Julian: via Skype I don’t know, I’m[br]waiting for the quantum hand, Jake.
0:16:48.020,0:16:50.460
Jacob: The quantum hand[br]that wants to strangle you?
0:16:50.460,0:16:56.770
Julian: Yeah! I have protection![br]Jacob: We were just discussing right now
0:16:56.770,0:17:00.720
the previous context, that is Daniel[br]Ellsberg, the Edward Snowdens,
0:17:00.720,0:17:04.900
the Chelsea Mannings, how they have done[br]an honorable, or good thing where they’ve
0:17:04.900,0:17:08.539
shown a duty to a greater humanity.[br]I think that is more important than
0:17:08.539,0:17:13.500
loyalty, e.g. to a bureaucratic oath, but[br]rather loyalty to universal principles.
0:17:13.500,0:17:17.059
So the next question is: how does that[br]relate to the people that are here
0:17:17.059,0:17:20.970
in the audience? How is it the case that[br]people who have access to systems
0:17:20.970,0:17:23.659
where they have said themselves they[br]think the companies they work for are
0:17:23.659,0:17:26.779
sort of questionable, or doing[br]dangerous things in the world?
0:17:26.779,0:17:29.509
Where do we go from people who[br]have done these things previously
0:17:29.509,0:17:32.459
to these people in the audience?
0:17:32.459,0:17:37.860
Julian: Well, I don’t know how much ground[br]you covered, but I think it’s important
0:17:37.860,0:17:47.609
that we recognize what we are, and what we[br]have become. And that high tech workers are
0:17:47.609,0:17:51.840
a particular class. In fact, very[br]often it’s ‘class hacking’…(?).
0:17:51.840,0:17:58.469
…class … a position to in fact[br]prompt the leaders of society…
0:17:58.469,0:18:02.960
[audio crippled, incomprehensible]
0:18:02.960,0:18:07.509
[audio crippled, incomprehensible][br]mumble in the audience
0:18:07.509,0:18:11.879
laughter
0:18:11.879,0:18:14.290
Sarah: Should we just leave[br]him like that and continue?
0:18:14.290,0:18:18.600
laughter
0:18:18.600,0:18:30.560
laughter and applause
0:18:30.560,0:18:33.499
Julian: Am I back?[br]Audience and speakers: Yeah!!
0:18:33.499,0:18:36.100
Sarah: You’ve got three minutes![br]To say something!
0:18:36.100,0:18:38.990
Julian: Alright![br]Sarah: Make it good!
0:18:38.990,0:18:43.169
Julian: Those high tech workers – we are[br]a particular class and it’s time that
0:18:43.169,0:18:47.489
we recognized that we are a class. And[br]looked back in history and understood
0:18:47.489,0:18:53.230
that the great gains in human rights and[br]education etc. that were gained through
0:18:53.230,0:18:56.279
powerful industrial workers which[br]formed the backbone of the economy
0:18:56.279,0:19:01.249
of the 20th century, and that we have[br]that same ability but even more so
0:19:01.249,0:19:06.630
because of the greater interconnection[br]that exists now economically and
0:19:06.630,0:19:10.309
politically. Which is all underpinned by[br]system administrators. And we should
0:19:10.309,0:19:15.980
understand that system administrators are[br]not just those people who administer
0:19:15.980,0:19:21.950
one UNIX system or another. They are[br]the people who administer systems. And
0:19:21.950,0:19:27.919
the system that exists globally now is[br]created by the interconnection of many
0:19:27.919,0:19:36.049
individual systems. And we are all… or[br]many of us are part of administering
0:19:36.049,0:19:42.659
that system and have extraordinary[br]power in a way that is really
0:19:42.659,0:19:46.950
an order of magnitude different to[br]the power industrial workers had
0:19:46.950,0:19:52.469
back in the 20th century. And we can[br]see that in the cases of the famous leaks
0:19:52.469,0:19:56.489
that Wikileaks has done or the[br]recent Edward Snowden revelations,
0:19:56.489,0:20:01.320
it is possible now for even a single system[br]administrator to have a very significant
0:20:01.320,0:20:08.280
change to the… or rather apply a very[br]significant constructive constraint
0:20:08.280,0:20:12.749
to the behavior of these organizations.[br]Not merely wrecking or disabling them,
0:20:12.749,0:20:19.150
not merely going out on strikes to[br]change a policy, but rather shifting
0:20:19.150,0:20:24.419
an information apartheid system[br]which we’re developing
0:20:24.419,0:20:27.340
from those with extraordinary power[br]and extraordinary information
0:20:27.340,0:20:32.519
into the knowledge commons, where it can[br]be used not only as a disciplining force,
0:20:32.519,0:20:37.340
but it can be used to construct[br]and understand the new world
0:20:37.340,0:20:42.619
that we’re entering into. Now, Hayden,[br]the former Director of the CIA and NSA,
0:20:42.619,0:20:46.119
is terrified of this. In "Cypherpunks:[br][Freedom and the Future of the Internet]"
0:20:46.119,0:20:54.179
we called for this directly last year.[br]But to give you an interesting quote
0:20:54.179,0:21:03.780
from Hayden, possibly following up[br]on those words of mine and others:
0:21:03.780,0:21:07.559
“We need to recruit from Snowden’s[br]generation” says Hayden, “we need
0:21:07.559,0:21:11.480
to recruit from this group because[br]they have the skills that we require.
0:21:11.480,0:21:15.269
So the challenge is how to recruit this[br]talent while also protecting ourselves
0:21:15.269,0:21:21.179
from the small fraction of the population[br]that has this romantic attachment
0:21:21.179,0:21:25.850
to absolute transparency at[br]all costs.” And that’s us, right?
0:21:25.850,0:21:30.789
So, what we need to do is[br]spread that message and
0:21:30.789,0:21:34.499
go into all those organizations.[br]In fact, deal with them. I’m not saying
0:21:34.499,0:21:39.199
“Don’t join the CIA”. No, go[br]and join the CIA! Go in there!
0:21:39.199,0:21:45.529
Go into the ballpark and get the ball[br]and bring it out, with the understanding,
0:21:45.529,0:21:50.340
with the paranoia, that all those[br]organizations will be infiltrated
0:21:50.340,0:21:54.770
by this generation, by an ideology[br]that is spread across the internet.
0:21:54.770,0:21:58.850
And every young person is educated[br]on the internet. There will be no person
0:21:58.850,0:22:04.499
that has not been exposed[br]to this ideology of transparency
0:22:04.499,0:22:09.019
and understanding and wanting to keep[br]the internet which we were born into free.
0:22:09.019,0:22:14.830
This is the last free generation.[br]The coming together of these
0:22:14.830,0:22:20.289
systems of governments, the new[br]information apartheid across the world,
0:22:20.289,0:22:25.790
and linking it together such that[br]none of us will be able to escape it.
0:22:25.790,0:22:30.720
In just a decade. Our identities will be[br]coupled to it, the information sharing
0:22:30.720,0:22:35.409
in such that none of us will be able[br]to escape it. We are all becoming
0:22:35.409,0:22:39.919
part of the state, whether we like it or[br]not. So our only hope is to determine
0:22:39.919,0:22:45.129
what sort of state it is that we are going[br]to become part of. And we can do that
0:22:45.129,0:22:51.420
by looking and being inspired by some of[br]the actions that produced human rights
0:22:51.420,0:22:55.191
and free education etc. by people[br]recognizing that they were
0:22:55.191,0:23:00.320
part of the state, recognizing their own[br]power and taking concrete and robust
0:23:00.320,0:23:05.070
action to make sure they lived in[br]the sort of society that they wanted to
0:23:05.070,0:23:09.049
and not in a hell-hole dystopia.
0:23:09.049,0:23:10.406
Sarah: Thank you!
0:23:10.406,0:23:22.299
applause
0:23:22.299,0:23:26.740
So basically all those poor people Jake[br]just made identify themselves, you have
0:23:26.740,0:23:31.549
the power to change more systems than[br]the one you’re working on right now.
0:23:31.549,0:23:34.809
And I think it’s time to take some[br]questions because we don’t have long left.
0:23:34.809,0:23:39.970
If there are any… I did… what’s the…
0:23:39.970,0:23:43.040
Herald: If you do have questions please[br]line up in the middle of the room.
0:23:43.040,0:23:46.309
We have microphones there.
0:23:46.309,0:23:51.239
If you cannot reach one, please put your[br]hand up and we’ll try to get one to you.
0:23:51.239,0:23:54.800
Julian: While we wait for the first[br]question I’d just like to say I’m not sure
0:23:54.800,0:23:57.380
how many people are in there.[br]It looks like that it’s quite a lot.
0:23:57.380,0:23:59.230
Sarah: Start going to the mike, even while[br]he’s talking, if you do have a question.
0:23:59.230,0:24:01.959
Cause otherwise we won’t know that you[br]have one, and we’ll just keep on going!
0:24:01.959,0:24:05.499
Julian: It looks like there’s[br]quite a … apologize …
0:24:05.499,0:24:07.169
Herald: Alternatively just raise your[br]hand, and we’ll try to go to you.
0:24:07.169,0:24:08.929
Julian: It looks like there’s[br]quite a lot of people there,
0:24:08.929,0:24:13.100
but you should all know that[br]due to the various sorts of proximity
0:24:13.100,0:24:19.399
measures that are now employed by[br]NSA, GCHQ and Five Eyes Alliance,
0:24:19.399,0:24:23.070
if you’ve come there with a telephone, or[br]if you have been even in Hamburg
0:24:23.070,0:24:28.380
with a telephone, you are all now coupled[br]to us. You are coupled to this event.
0:24:28.380,0:24:32.820
You are coupled to this speech in an[br]irrevocable way. And that is now true
0:24:32.820,0:24:38.239
for many people. So either[br]we have to take command
0:24:38.239,0:24:42.019
of the position that we have, understand[br]the position we have, understand
0:24:42.019,0:24:47.460
that we are the last free people, and the[br]last people essentially with an ability
0:24:47.460,0:24:51.779
to act in this situation.[br]Or we are the group
0:24:51.779,0:24:57.549
that will be crushed[br]because of this association.
0:24:57.549,0:25:03.579
applause
0:25:03.579,0:25:07.239
Herald: I’d say I think we[br]have a question at the mike 4.
0:25:07.239,0:25:12.709
Question: So you were talking about the[br]sysadmins here. What about those people
0:25:12.709,0:25:17.960
who are not sysadmins? Not only[br]joining CIA and those companies,
0:25:17.960,0:25:20.369
what else can we do?
0:25:20.369,0:25:22.239
Sarah: Jake, do you want[br]to have a go at that one?
0:25:22.239,0:25:24.039
Jacob: Sure.[br]Skype end-connection sound
0:25:24.039,0:25:26.039
So this is a question of agency, right?[br]Sarah: Good timing!
0:25:26.039,0:25:30.710
It’s a question in which one has to ask[br]very simply, what is it that you feel like
0:25:30.710,0:25:34.440
you CAN do? And many people that are[br]in this audience I’ve had this discussion
0:25:34.440,0:25:39.559
with them. E.g. Edward Snowden did[br]not save himself. I mean he obviously
0:25:39.559,0:25:44.090
had some ideas, but Sarah e.g., not as a[br]system administrator, but as someone
0:25:44.090,0:25:48.610
who is willing to risk her person.[br]She helped specifically
0:25:48.610,0:25:52.209
for source protection, she took actions[br]to protect him. So there are plenty
0:25:52.209,0:25:56.309
of things that can be done. To give you[br]some idea, as Edward Snowden’s
0:25:56.309,0:25:59.850
still sitting in Russia now, there are[br]things that can be done to help him
0:25:59.850,0:26:03.799
even now. And there are things to show[br]that, if we can succeed in saving Edward
0:26:03.799,0:26:08.429
Snowden’s life and to keep him free, that[br]the next Edward Snowden will have that
0:26:08.429,0:26:12.830
to look forward to. And if we look also[br]to what has happened to Chelsea Manning,
0:26:12.830,0:26:18.440
we see additionally that Snowden has[br]clearly learned. Just as Thomas Drake
0:26:18.440,0:26:22.440
and Bill Binney set an example for every[br]single person about what to do or
0:26:22.440,0:26:27.009
what not to do. It’s not just about system[br]administrators, it’s about all of us
0:26:27.009,0:26:32.800
actually recognizing that positive[br]contribution that each of us can make.
0:26:32.800,0:26:36.350
Herald: Okay. Our next question[br]will be microphone 2, please.
0:26:36.350,0:26:40.280
applause
0:26:40.280,0:26:45.340
Question: Hi Julian, I’m wondering, do you[br]believe that transparency alone is enough
0:26:45.340,0:26:53.490
to inject some form of conscience[br]into ‘evil’ organizations,
0:26:53.490,0:26:56.549
and if not, what do you[br]believe the next step
0:26:56.549,0:26:59.480
after transparency is?
0:26:59.480,0:27:03.529
Julian: It’s not about injecting[br]conscience. It’s about providing
0:27:03.529,0:27:08.939
two things: One, an effective deterrent[br]to particular forms of behavior
0:27:08.939,0:27:15.759
and two, finding that information which[br]allows us to construct an order
0:27:15.759,0:27:20.549
in the world around us, to educate[br]ourselves in how the world works
0:27:20.549,0:27:27.169
and therefore be able to manage[br]the world that we are a part of.
0:27:27.169,0:27:32.200
The restriction of information, the[br]restriction of those bits of information
0:27:32.200,0:27:36.590
colors it. It gives off an economic[br]signal that that information is important
0:27:36.590,0:27:39.909
when it’s released. Because otherwise[br]why would you spend so much work
0:27:39.909,0:27:44.729
in restricting it? So the people who[br]know it best restrict it. We should take
0:27:44.729,0:27:49.320
their measurement of that information[br]as a guide and use that to pull it out
0:27:49.320,0:27:54.549
where it can achieve some kind of[br]reform. That in itself is not enough.
0:27:54.549,0:28:00.860
It creates an intellectual commons[br]which is part of our mutual education.
0:28:00.860,0:28:06.940
But we need to understand – say,[br]if we look at the Occupy event,
0:28:06.940,0:28:13.289
a very interesting political event – where[br]revelations and perhaps destabilization
0:28:13.289,0:28:18.210
led to a mass, a very large group[br]of people wanting to do something.
0:28:18.210,0:28:22.989
However, there was no organizational[br]scaffold for these people
0:28:22.989,0:28:30.440
to attach themselves to, no nucleus[br]for these people to crystallize onto.
0:28:30.440,0:28:37.049
And it is that problem, which is an endemic[br]problem of the anarchist left, actually.
0:28:37.049,0:28:43.269
The CCC. Why are we having this right now?[br]Because the CCC is an organized structure.
0:28:43.269,0:28:47.230
It’s a structure which has been able[br]to grow, to accommodate the 30%
0:28:47.230,0:28:53.289
of extra people that have occurred this[br]year. To shift and change and act like
0:28:53.289,0:28:57.309
one of the better workers’[br]universities that are around.
0:28:57.309,0:29:02.779
So we have to form unions and networks
0:29:02.779,0:29:07.159
and create programs and organizational[br]structures. And those organizational
0:29:07.159,0:29:14.009
structures can also be written in code.[br]Bitcoin e.g. is an organizational structure
0:29:14.009,0:29:20.680
that creates an intermediary between[br]people and sets up rules between people.
0:29:20.680,0:29:24.970
It may end up as a quite totalitarian[br]system one day, who knows? But
0:29:24.970,0:29:30.210
at the moment it provides some kind of[br]balancing. So code and human structures
0:29:30.210,0:29:34.340
do things. Wikileaks was able to rescue[br]Edward Snowden because we are
0:29:34.340,0:29:39.209
an organized institution[br]with collective experience.
0:29:39.209,0:29:41.200
Sarah: Okay, I think there’s[br]one question left for me
0:29:41.200,0:29:43.250
that’s coming from the internet.
0:29:43.250,0:29:46.320
Signal Angel: Yes, on IRC there was the[br]question: What was the most difficult
0:29:46.320,0:29:51.010
part on getting Snowden out of the U.S.?
0:29:51.010,0:29:53.890
Jacob: Hah![br] Julian laughs
0:29:53.890,0:29:55.659
Jacob: That’s quite a loaded question!
0:29:55.659,0:29:59.820
Julian: Yeah, that’s interesting to think[br]whether we can actually answer
0:29:59.820,0:30:05.580
that question at all. I’ll give a variant of the[br]answer because of the legal situation
0:30:05.580,0:30:12.290
it is a little bit difficult. As some of[br]you may know the U.K. Government has
0:30:12.290,0:30:18.509
admitted to spending £6 million a year[br]approximately surveilling this embassy,
0:30:18.509,0:30:25.779
in the police forces alone. So you can[br]imagine the difficulty in communicating
0:30:25.779,0:30:30.909
with various people in different countries[br]in relation to his diplomatic asylum and
0:30:30.909,0:30:39.060
into logistics in Hong Kong in a situation[br]like that. And the only reason we were
0:30:39.060,0:30:44.549
able to succeed is because[br]of extremely dilligent u…
0:30:44.549,0:30:47.870
video transmission freezes[br]audience uneasy
0:30:47.870,0:30:50.179
Jacob: Perfectly timed![br]Sarah: And we didn’t use Skype!
0:30:50.179,0:30:53.559
laughs[br]laughter
0:30:53.559,0:30:55.600
Jacob: Do we have time[br]for one more question?
0:30:55.600,0:30:58.949
Herald: I think we ran out[br]of our time, I’m very sorry.
0:30:58.949,0:31:01.610
Jacob: That was such a fantastic, perfect[br]way to make sure that you didn’t learn
0:31:01.610,0:31:03.550
the answer to that question![br]Sarah: Hehe, yeah!
0:31:03.550,0:31:05.739
laughter
0:31:05.739,0:31:13.910
applause
0:31:13.910,0:31:15.630
Herald: Unfortunately that is all[br]the time we have for this talk…
0:31:15.630,0:31:16.980
Skype sounds audible[br]laughter
0:31:16.980,0:31:17.910
From audience: …he wants to say goodbye!
0:31:17.910,0:31:24.900
Herald: …but I want you all, to still (?)[br]thank you: Jake Appelbaum! Thank you.
0:31:24.900,0:31:28.250
applause[br]I’m very sorry…
0:31:28.250,0:31:30.530
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0:31:30.530,0:31:37.226
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