0:00:00.000,0:00:13.219
36c3 intro music[br][Filler, please remove ina mara]
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Herald: Welcome everybody to our next[br]talk: Linux on open source hardware with
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open source chip design. Who here in the[br]audience uses Linux? please short sign of
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hands, feels like almost 100 percent, I[br]would say. OK. A hundred percent of people
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use Linux. So who have you use it on open[br]hardware? We are pleased. Another show of
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hands. Yeah, that's not too many. Who have[br]you would like to use it on open hardware?
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And I guess that's why you're here. So I'm[br]glad that we have Drew Fustini here. Our
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new speaker. He's a open source hardware[br]designer and embedded Linux developer and
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also the vice president of the Open Source[br]Software Association. And who better to
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tell you how to run your Linux on open[br]source hardware? Please welcome Drew with
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a big, warm round of applause and have fun[br]with this talk. Thank you very much.
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applause[br]Thank you.
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Applause
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Drew: I'll skip past my introduction. It's[br]Congress, so probably most people are
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familiar with open source. So before I[br]jump into what open source hardware is,
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just want to frame it in the context. If[br]people aren't familiar with open source
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is. So, examples that are Linux apparently[br]always running Linux in this room, which
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is great. Underneath Android, there's[br]Linux as well. LibreOffice which I use to
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make this presentation is also open[br]source. Firefox the web browsers open
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source. So we're probably all very[br]familiar with open source software and
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open source refers to something that you[br]can modify and share because the design is
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publicly accessible. So with software[br]we're talking about that you can inspect
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and modify and enhance the source code. So[br]in the terms of, When we talk about open
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source, there's a couple different terms[br]that people use. They might use free or
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Libre or open source and those do have[br]different philosophical backgrounds. For
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the purposes of this talk, I'm going to[br]conflate those terms and I'm just going to
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refer to it as open source hardware.[br]Though some people use the terms free
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hardware, libre hardware, open hardware.[br]But I'm just going to using the term open
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source hardware for this talk. So open[br]source hardware is hardware whose design
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is made publicly available so that anyone[br]can study, modify, distribute, make and
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sell that the design or hardware based on[br]the design. So this is a definition that
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we came up with about 10 years ago at an[br]event called the Open Hardware Summit.
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People that were making hardware projects,[br]we got together and tried to come up with
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a definition of what we wanted it to mean.[br]So I mostly do electronics, though. Open
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hardware and open source hardware is more[br]than just that. It can be mechanical
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design, basically any physical object[br]where you have design files that you could
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share. But just to give you an example in[br]the context of electronics what where
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we're talking about is this schematic, the[br]board layout and then the building
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materials, the parts list. And we're not[br]just talking about an output file like a
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PDF or our graphic file of the schematic[br]or Gerber is for the board layout. We're
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talking about editable source file from[br]the from the CAD software. So something
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like Eagle or a KiCAD. And then one of the[br]things that's good to do with the bill
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materials is if you want to enable other[br]people deal to build your project, it's
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good to make sure that the components are[br]available in low quantity. This isn't a
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strict requirement of the definition of[br]open source hardware, but if you want
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people to build a build your project and[br]it's important to make sure that they can
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build it in in low quantities. So many[br]people have heard of Arduino. OK, good.
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Good number of people in the room. So[br]Arduino was a microcontroller board that
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was created at small school in Italy like[br]over 10 years ago. And it became super
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popular because they, it was good enough[br]at the time to do a lot of different
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interactive electronics projects and they[br]shared the hardware design and the code on
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the Internet. And it just kind of achieved[br]critical mass. A lot of people took it and
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modified it for different projects,[br]different use cases. At the beginning, I
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had a link there to the slides. Also, if[br]you pull up the talk page, there's a link
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to the slides as well. I have a lot of[br]links in these slides. Something that is
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interesting as there was a documentary[br]back when Arduino was starting about the
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team. Just went to check out to see what[br]see what things were like when that was
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starting. So one of the most popular[br]Arduino boards is the UNO, which you see a
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picture of there. So how do we know that[br]the UNO is open source hardware? Well, if
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we go to the Arduino Web site, we can see[br]that the design files from Eagle, which is
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the CAD software they use, is there and we[br]can download that zip file and it has the
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schematic and the board layout. Now, when[br]we're releasing our design files for a
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hardware project, we need to choose a[br]license. And there is a lot of different
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options when it comes to licenses. One is[br]the Creative Commons suite of licenses. So
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one common one, you might see people use[br]that CC-BY means attribution and then
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share like essay say. One thing to note is[br]if you had the noncommercial attribute,
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then that makes it not open source. In[br]this slide there's a link to a good blog
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post that kind of explains why if he had[br]noncommercial clause, it no longer
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conforms to the the definition of open[br]source. Other people use things like copy
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left licenses or reciprocal licenses like[br]GPL and also permissive licenses like
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Apache and BSD and MIT. And then there's[br]licenses that were created specifically
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for hardware projects, one of which is the[br]CERN Open Higher License, which I want to
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talk more about specifically. So CERN, the[br]physics laboratory here in Europe, they
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have a open hardware repository. So[br]they're developing these electronics. And
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actually there was two great talks here in[br]Congress from a couple electronics
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engineers that work on the electronics[br]there. So they're building electronics for
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their physics experiments and they want to[br]share that with other labs around the
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world. So they have an open hardware[br]repository. And as part of that, they
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created the open hardware license and kind[br]of give some background on this. One of
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the people that runs the team there is[br]Javier Serrano. He gave a cool interview
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that's linked in the slides where he talks[br]about their motivation behind this and in
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why they have the open hardware repository[br]and create the license. Though this can
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get kind of confusing, there's not just[br]licenses, there's also copyright and
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patents. At the Open Hardware Summit a few[br]years ago Ari Douglas gave a nice talk
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about this so you can find that talk in[br]the link there in the slides. He goes over
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what might be good for your project,[br]depending on what purposes you're trying
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to achieve with your own project and kind[br]of goes over the different options there.
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But what's the whole point of all this? So[br]the reason you might want to make your
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project open source hardware is that you[br]want to enable collaborative development.
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So we're talking about the idea here is[br]that you're going to share your design
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files in your hoping other people will[br]help to contribute to your project,
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contribute to the design of your hardware.[br]So I would say that's like the main reason
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to release the design files for your[br]project is open source hardware. If you're
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not interested in other people[br]collaborating on your project, then it
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might not be the right thing for your[br]project. So it's good to consider whether
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or not you want to have other people[br]contribute to your project. So I
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mentioned, well it was mentioned at the[br]beginning: I'm part of the Open Source
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Hardware Association. So we're a nonprofit[br]based in the US, even though we do have
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board members around the world. We have[br]Mathias, who's one of our board members in
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Vienna. I'm actually based in Berlin now[br]as well. So one of the things we do is we
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host the definition of what open source[br]hardware is. We also have things like best
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practices guide, a checklist that you can[br]go through to see if you're releasing all
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the things you need to for open source[br]hardware project. But the main thing that
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we do is we helped organize this event[br]called the Open Hardware Summit, and
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that's going to be coming up in March of[br]2020 in New York City. So hope to see some
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of you there if you can make it. This will[br]be our tenth one. And so we started in
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2010. This year, though, we decided to do[br]something a little bit different. So we
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had Open Hardware Month. So Idea with this[br]is, we wanted to have people from around
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the world do locally organized meet ups[br]and talks and workshops that kicked off
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with one in some in Vienna and Colorado in[br]the US. And it was really cool. We had 40
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events in 14 different countries and we'll[br]be doing it again in 2020. So hopefully
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some of you can get involved with events[br]wherever you're located. And if you're
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wondering what happens with the Open[br]Hardware Summit, you can check out the
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talks from our last one, which was in[br]2018. Give you an idea of what happens
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there. In kind of some insight into the[br]different sorts of the projects people are
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doing. I do a lot electronics, but there's[br]a lot more than that. There's people that
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are doing science and art and design, all[br]sorts of different things. One of the
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other things we do with the Officers Heart[br]Association is we have a certification
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program. So this is self certification[br]program. You got a
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"certificate.oshwa.org". And you you fill[br]out the name, your project, the license
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you're using linked to your design files,[br]linked to your documentation, and then you
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get this logo that you can use. And kind[br]of one of the value of this, if you're
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making a project, is you can put that on[br]your packaging or I put it on like the
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silk screen of my board. So then people[br]can really easily identify that it's open
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hardware and then they can go to that Web[br]site and they can type an I.D. number and
0:10:00.520,0:10:04.001
be able to pull up the page that links[br]them to the documentation, the design
0:10:04.001,0:10:09.740
files. And then for people that are[br]looking for like I want a certain type of
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device and I want to find one that's open[br]source hardware. If you see this logo, you
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can go and look that up in the database[br]and find out more about it. So if you're
0:10:20.449,0:10:24.850
interested and know more about the Open[br]Source Hardware Association, you can go to
0:10:24.850,0:10:30.630
"oshwa.org". You can join as a member of[br]the association. We also have a mailing
0:10:30.630,0:10:36.430
list and a forum. If you want to check us[br]out on Twitter, the "@OHsummit" is the
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Open Hardware Summit account, where we[br]have a lot of activity going on right now
0:10:39.950,0:10:43.589
about that because it's coming up in[br]March. Mean, our executive director,
0:10:43.589,0:10:47.509
Alicia Gib, who's one of the people that[br]started this summit, she wrote a book
0:10:47.509,0:10:51.259
called Building Open Source Hardware, and[br]it has essays from different people that
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have built open hardware projects. So it's[br]a good thing to check out if you're
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wanting to see what different experiences[br]people have had with that. So the point of
0:11:01.509,0:11:06.149
all, the kind, the main theme of this talk[br]was about Linux on open source hardware,
0:11:06.149,0:11:12.019
which is my two favorite things. So one of[br]my favorite projects was developed by
0:11:12.019,0:11:17.500
Bunnie, who gave an awesome talk on the[br]first day here at Congress. And Sean Cross
0:11:17.500,0:11:22.279
(xobs) he was giving a workshop right now[br]on the FOMU. So this was a completely open
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source laptop for everything, including[br]the all the electronics were were open
0:11:27.029,0:11:29.589
source. And at the time when this came[br]out, like four or five years ago, it was
0:11:29.589,0:11:34.760
it was a pretty decent system. I have one[br]and I used it for for many years. So this
0:11:34.760,0:11:38.140
is a really cool idea of having a laptop[br]that I can use every day. That's open
0:11:38.140,0:11:44.839
hardware. And it had some cool features[br]like an FPGA and a software defined radio.
0:11:44.839,0:11:51.350
And then if you're wondering what's kind[br]of coming up next, if you go to the CDC,
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CDC area here at Congress, you can see the[br]reform laptop. So Lucas from MNT is there.
0:11:58.620,0:12:02.560
He has this is a completely open source[br]hardware laptop. The electronics, the
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mechanical design, everything. So I[br]recommend you go check that out. It's
0:12:05.680,0:12:13.600
really cool. It's in the CDC area, which[br]is the critical decentralized cluster. So
0:12:13.600,0:12:17.899
one of the other things I'm involved with[br]is a "beagleboard.org". So we're a
0:12:17.899,0:12:23.070
nonprofit organization that helps design[br]open hardware computers. That is
0:12:23.070,0:12:27.940
everything for people from makers to[br]students, even Professionals that are
0:12:27.940,0:12:32.350
designing into their projects. And what we[br]do is we work with different manufacturers
0:12:32.350,0:12:38.540
and we also work with the community to[br]come up with designs that are useful. So
0:12:38.540,0:12:42.550
this started off with the Beagle Board[br]back in 2008, so this was kind of the
0:12:42.550,0:12:47.379
first low cost ARM development board. In[br]back at that time a lot of people were
0:12:47.379,0:12:53.480
needing ARM hardware to port their free[br]software and open source software to ARM,
0:12:53.480,0:12:58.140
and the board was pretty popular for that.[br]We followed it up with littleler board
0:12:58.140,0:13:02.220
called the BeagleBone, which fits into the[br]old toys tin, if you've seen those mid
0:13:02.220,0:13:07.130
tins, if you've probably used the[br]BeagleBone your probably most really with
0:13:07.130,0:13:12.230
the beagle bone black, which was, I would[br]say still our most popular board. So kind
0:13:12.230,0:13:15.490
of the theme here is because it's open[br]source hardware, there's a whole bunch of
0:13:15.490,0:13:20.000
different BeagleBones made by different[br]manufacturers with different features and
0:13:20.000,0:13:24.750
different price points like a SeedStudio[br]decided probably most people don't care
0:13:24.750,0:13:29.920
about HDMI, so they took the HDMI off to[br]save some cost. Arrow wanted to make one
0:13:29.920,0:13:34.120
that worked with industrial temps, so they[br]it's a little bit more expensive, but it
0:13:34.120,0:13:41.550
has industrial temp components on it. And[br]then one of the things that's important
0:13:41.550,0:13:45.260
with open source hardware is we want[br]people to be able to take the design files
0:13:45.260,0:13:49.430
and make derivatives. So we have this[br]smaller one called the PocketBeagle. The
0:13:49.430,0:13:53.209
cool thing about this is a pretty simple[br]circuit board. It has something called the
0:13:53.209,0:13:56.980
system in package that integrates a lot of[br]the chips. So it makes the board layout
0:13:56.980,0:14:01.129
really simple. So this is just a four[br]layer circuit board and it's available in
0:14:01.129,0:14:06.850
Eagle and also in Key CAD. And if you have[br]some experience like if you go over to the
0:14:06.850,0:14:10.930
hardware hacking area, you can learn to do[br]surface mount assembly and with a little
0:14:10.930,0:14:16.779
bit of experience, you could order the[br]board, order the parts and build your own.
0:14:16.779,0:14:22.589
Or as Kumar did, he wanted to make a logic[br]analyzer board. So he took the design of
0:14:22.589,0:14:26.610
the PocketBeagle and he added on the[br]features he needed, like the inputs for
0:14:26.610,0:14:31.529
the probes. And he also added a gigabit[br]networking. So this is kind of cool to see
0:14:31.529,0:14:35.600
people take the design in the PocketBeagle[br]and then modify it for their project for
0:14:35.600,0:14:41.490
their use case. And here's an example of[br]the the logo. So the latest boy we had was
0:14:41.490,0:14:46.620
the BeagleBone AI. So we registered that[br]back in the summer. So it's US because it
0:14:46.620,0:14:52.129
was registered in the US as a country code[br]and then it's 169. So it's just like a
0:14:52.129,0:14:57.810
sequential number. So it's easy for people[br]to identify if they go to the git hub. OK.
0:14:57.810,0:15:02.370
It's open source hardware certified and[br]then it links off to the page with the
0:15:02.370,0:15:09.300
database with information about it. So I[br]wanted to mention, Olimex we're here in
0:15:09.300,0:15:13.850
Europe. And, you know, in Bulgaria is one[br]of the best open hardware companies, in my
0:15:13.850,0:15:18.000
opinion. And they have a line of open[br]source hardware, Linux computers called
0:15:18.000,0:15:25.910
the OLinux. We know. And the person behind[br]Olimex fed. has a great blog post about
0:15:25.910,0:15:31.540
open source hardware and why it matters to[br]them. So a few years ago, they wanted to
0:15:31.540,0:15:37.889
create a ARM 64 bit ARM board that was[br]completely open source and designed in
0:15:37.889,0:15:43.660
KiCAD, which is a free software open[br]source circuit design software. Tsvetan
0:15:43.660,0:15:48.999
and gave a nice talk at FOSDEM a few years[br]ago about the process of them switching
0:15:48.999,0:15:53.601
from their proprietary CAD software over[br]to KiCAD and designing this open source
0:15:53.601,0:16:01.180
hardware board. So and then if you've not[br]heard of KiCAD before or KiCAD doesn't
0:16:01.180,0:16:05.200
really matter what you say. Some people[br]say "Keycad" some people say "kaicad" but
0:16:05.200,0:16:09.790
it's open source software for designing[br]circuit boards. It's cross platform runs
0:16:09.790,0:16:15.520
on Macs, Windows and Linux. And one of the[br]cool things about it now is. There's
0:16:15.520,0:16:19.680
developers at CERN that are working on it.[br]And the project leader, Wayne, is now
0:16:19.680,0:16:23.939
working on a full time is this job. So[br]it's cool to see a lot of the developers
0:16:23.939,0:16:28.420
now being able to do it as their day job.[br]So it's kind of getting critical mass in
0:16:28.420,0:16:34.350
that way. And if you want to try it out, I[br]recommend if you search on YouTube for
0:16:34.350,0:16:38.161
"Getting to Blinky", it's a nice tutorial[br]about teaches you how to go through and
0:16:38.161,0:16:46.839
make a little board that blinks an LED. So[br]Olimex took that board that they designed
0:16:46.839,0:16:52.660
in KiCAD, the OLinux we know, a 64, and[br]they wanted to make a laptop with it. So
0:16:52.660,0:16:58.600
that's called the terrorists One the[br]design files are git hub for it. So the
0:16:58.600,0:17:03.709
idea there is to make a modular laptop[br]that people can put different boards in
0:17:03.709,0:17:10.120
and things like that. Another interesting[br]open hardware project was the "chip",
0:17:10.120,0:17:12.919
which you might have heard of, it was[br]built as a nine dollar computer. They had
0:17:12.919,0:17:17.370
a really successful Kickstarter back in[br]2015. Unfortunate that company went on a
0:17:17.370,0:17:23.600
business in 2018 three years later. But[br]the cool thing about it was it was all
0:17:23.600,0:17:29.260
open source hardware, the schematics, the[br]PCB, the build materials. And if you see
0:17:29.260,0:17:32.200
here, there is this really cool thing[br]called the pocket ship, which was this
0:17:32.200,0:17:36.980
nice like handheld little Linux computer.[br]It was really cool. But the company went
0:17:36.980,0:17:41.520
to business, which was unfortunate. But[br]this one person, Christopher, he goes by
0:17:41.520,0:17:47.260
"Groguard". He designed his own board that[br]plugs into the pocket chip. And if you
0:17:47.260,0:17:50.720
click on the link in the slides, you can[br]see doom running on it, which is like, oh,
0:17:50.720,0:17:57.159
it's the demo that you show with a Linux[br]system. Then he went and designed this
0:17:57.159,0:18:01.450
other board, which is pretty cool, so this[br]fits into a popular form factor for
0:18:01.450,0:18:06.730
microcontroller boards called the Adafruit[br]Feather form Factor. And this is a full
0:18:06.730,0:18:12.520
Linux system. And you can. It's fully open[br]source and there is a crowdfunding
0:18:12.520,0:18:18.679
campaign for it. That happened earlier[br]this year. So one of the things I also
0:18:18.679,0:18:26.820
want to talk about, especially here at[br]Congress, is the idea of open source and
0:18:26.820,0:18:32.340
FPGAs. Then Well, I'll tell you about how[br]that plays into Linux. So being the really
0:18:32.340,0:18:35.730
cool things that's happened over the last[br]couple years and many some of the people
0:18:35.730,0:18:40.380
here, Congress have been a part of that.[br]Like Clifford Wolff and David Shaw, and
0:18:40.380,0:18:45.809
other people have built free software[br]tools that allows you to not have to use
0:18:45.809,0:18:52.020
the proprietary tools from the FPGA[br]vendors kind of wrote a Overview of this
0:18:52.020,0:18:56.510
and recent issue with hacks based[br]magazine. You can download the PDF for
0:18:56.510,0:19:02.070
free if you want to check that out. And[br]one of the talks at Congress a few years
0:19:02.070,0:19:06.190
ago was from Clifford Wolf. So this kind[br]of all started off with this one FPGA
0:19:06.190,0:19:11.371
called the iCE40. And he wrote kind of[br]over time wrote different pieces of
0:19:11.371,0:19:17.260
software that you need to be able to take[br]your design and put it onto an FPGA. So
0:19:17.260,0:19:22.690
that was for a part called the iCE40. So[br]that was Project Ice Storm. And then a few
0:19:22.690,0:19:28.950
years later. David Shaw primarily helped[br]develop open source software that lets you
0:19:28.950,0:19:36.390
put onto a more capable part called the[br]ECP5. And then most recently, there's a
0:19:36.390,0:19:40.990
there's project x-ray and another project[br]called Symbol Flow that's been working on
0:19:40.990,0:19:47.730
bringing open source tools to higher end[br]of FPGAs. These Xilinx Series 7 FPGA,
0:19:47.730,0:19:52.750
they're going to add a lot more[br]capabilities. So why is this important for
0:19:52.750,0:19:58.520
Linux? Well, if we have an FPGA that's[br]capable enough, we can put a soft core in
0:19:58.520,0:20:03.480
there and then we can potentially run[br]Linux on that soft core. So Greg is here
0:20:03.480,0:20:07.630
at Congress and he designed this really[br]cool board. This also an Adafruit form
0:20:07.630,0:20:12.370
factor called the orange crab. And[br]actually yesterday he got Linux to run on
0:20:12.370,0:20:16.490
it, which was really fun. So this is a[br]open source hardware board. You can
0:20:16.490,0:20:25.040
download the designs of the board and it's[br]using a soft core in a FPGA to run Linux.
0:20:25.040,0:20:30.730
One of the other boards came out of a[br]hackerspace in Croatia "radiona.org", and
0:20:30.730,0:20:35.830
that's also using the ECP5 FPGA and that's[br]capable of running Linux as well. And
0:20:35.830,0:20:40.710
they're doing about to do a crowdfunding[br]campaign now so you can check that out on
0:20:40.710,0:20:46.029
"crowdsupply". And David Shaw was one of[br]the open source developers. He created
0:20:46.029,0:20:50.650
this "ultimate" board called the 'Trellis[br]Board', which I think would be probably
0:20:50.650,0:20:54.680
pretty attractive for running Linux. I[br]think it has a gigabyte of DDR memories of
0:20:54.680,0:20:59.890
its pretty substantial system for running[br]Linux and its open source. You can
0:20:59.890,0:21:06.170
download the plans and build it. And then[br]recently, back in November, there was the
0:21:06.170,0:21:11.190
Hackaday Super Conference and everyone at[br]the conference got this badge, which was
0:21:11.190,0:21:17.350
kind like this Gameboy form factor, but it[br]has the ECP5 FPGA that allows us to have a
0:21:17.350,0:21:22.850
soft core on there and run Linux. So kind[br]of some different options of open hardware
0:21:22.850,0:21:28.890
boards that are using soft cores in FPGA[br]is to run Linux. And then one of the
0:21:28.890,0:21:33.360
people over in the open FPGA assembly here[br]at Congress is a pretty cool picture, as I
0:21:33.360,0:21:37.460
was talking about, like a soft core. Well,[br]what does that look like when it's an
0:21:37.460,0:21:41.070
FPGA? So this is kind of a cool picture of[br]what it looks like when all those
0:21:41.070,0:21:46.970
different gates are laid out inside the[br]FPGA to have a Linux capable processor
0:21:46.970,0:21:53.591
core. So one of the ways that we do this[br]is so we talk about a soft core, well, how
0:21:53.591,0:21:57.830
do you make that? And one of the important[br]pieces software that all these boards that
0:21:57.830,0:22:02.950
was is showing you use is a project called[br]"LiteX". So this is a pretty interesting
0:22:02.950,0:22:10.110
way of creating a system on chip inside[br]the FPGA. An extra uses a Python based
0:22:10.110,0:22:15.100
language called Migen. And if you're[br]interested in it, I'd recommend checking
0:22:15.100,0:22:21.690
out this blog posts from Bunnie where he[br]talks about the advantages of it. And it
0:22:21.690,0:22:24.320
gives you things like it gives you like a[br]DRAM controller, Ethernet controller, PCI
0:22:24.320,0:22:30.429
controller SATA controller so you can take[br]those pieces of IP and put them together
0:22:30.429,0:22:38.131
for what you need for your project. And[br]then in terms of the soft core we can, one
0:22:38.131,0:22:44.511
of the things that LiteX gives you is the[br]ability to run a RISC-V soft core. So that
0:22:44.511,0:22:50.100
project's called LiteX on Linux or Linux[br]on LiteX, and that's what the Orange Crab
0:22:50.100,0:22:55.220
is using in the HackaDay badge and those[br]other projects, the radio and a board.
0:22:55.220,0:22:57.929
That's how it's running. There's a couple[br]of projects that are doing similar things
0:22:57.929,0:23:04.780
as well. But the Linux on LiteX is one of[br]the ones that a lot of people are using
0:23:04.780,0:23:10.170
and a screenshot of what it looks like[br]when it boots up. So I was already kind of
0:23:10.170,0:23:16.040
talking about RISC-V a bit and if you're[br]not familiar with it. You probably heard
0:23:16.040,0:23:22.340
of like x86 intelx86 or ARM. That's an[br]instructions that it's the instructions
0:23:22.340,0:23:25.960
that the processor executes. You write[br]code, it gets compiled into instructions
0:23:25.960,0:23:30.070
that run on the processor. So RISC-V is an[br]instructions set that came out of
0:23:30.070,0:23:36.740
university, California, Berkeley, in it's[br]a free and open source instruction set. So
0:23:36.740,0:23:42.159
anyone can take this instruction set and[br]implemented in a in a chip like an FPGA or
0:23:42.159,0:23:48.590
actually make a actual silicon chip. So[br]one of these examples of this is there are
0:23:48.590,0:23:52.890
there's a university in Columbia and they[br]decided to make their own microcontroller
0:23:52.890,0:23:58.920
based on RISC-V called the Open-V. So this[br]is really cool. It was fully open sourced
0:23:58.920,0:24:03.309
chip then design of the whole chip is open[br]source and it can run the RISC-V
0:24:03.309,0:24:09.210
instruction set. However, it's not quite[br]good enough to, or it's not capable enough
0:24:09.210,0:24:14.630
to run Linux and fortunately gets more[br]meant for microcontroller applications.
0:24:14.630,0:24:18.980
Another organization is called "lowRISC"[br]and they were kind of founded with the
0:24:18.980,0:24:22.980
idea of being able to create a RISC-V[br]based system on chip tech could do
0:24:22.980,0:24:28.320
something like be a basic smartphone. So[br]they're still working on that. But I am
0:24:28.320,0:24:32.519
pretty excited this will happen in the[br]future there. One of the people that
0:24:32.519,0:24:38.039
started lowRISC is Alex Bradbury, and he[br]gave a interesting talk a few months ago
0:24:38.039,0:24:41.899
about the future of operating systems on[br]RISC-V. So I recommend checking that out
0:24:41.899,0:24:46.120
if you're interested in like the ecosystem[br]of the tool chains involved in things like
0:24:46.120,0:24:52.529
that. So similar to Oshwa. There is a[br]organization for chip design called
0:24:52.529,0:24:56.771
"FOSSi", which is the free and open source[br]Silicon Foundation, and they do a great
0:24:56.771,0:25:00.560
job of putting together all these[br]different projects into events. They have
0:25:00.560,0:25:06.149
one called Orconf, which happens every[br]year here in Europe. They also have a
0:25:06.149,0:25:10.980
conference now in the US called Latch-Up.[br]That's going to be coming up in April at
0:25:10.980,0:25:16.330
M.I.T. They also host a web site, called[br]"LibreCores". So people are designing this
0:25:16.330,0:25:23.049
open source chip designs or IP blocks for[br]things like Ethernet or memory
0:25:23.049,0:25:27.580
controllers. And if you. They created[br]LibreCores as a site that you can share
0:25:27.580,0:25:30.970
those. And so if I'm going to build an[br]open source chip, I can go in there and
0:25:30.970,0:25:38.279
find different blocks or functionality I[br]need. There was also an event earlier this
0:25:38.279,0:25:42.480
year called the Week of Open Source[br]Hardware. So this is all hosted by Fossi.
0:25:42.480,0:25:47.059
They have all the talks online from these[br]conferences if you want to check them out.
0:25:47.059,0:25:50.309
So one of the companies that was founded[br]by some of the people that created the
0:25:50.309,0:25:54.760
RISC-V instruction set is called SiFive,[br]and they've actually produced a few
0:25:54.760,0:26:02.110
commercial chips, one of which is this[br]microcontroller here. And one of the co-
0:26:02.110,0:26:07.900
founders and CTOs has a interesting talk[br]about their RISC-V ecosystem. And so like
0:26:07.900,0:26:13.769
companies like Western Digital have[br]decided to switch all the core in their
0:26:13.769,0:26:17.861
drives over to RISC-V. And NVIDIA has[br]decided to take out a little
0:26:17.861,0:26:23.850
microcontrollers in their GPUs and turn[br]those over to RISC-V as well. This is a
0:26:23.850,0:26:28.059
microcontroller board based on that SiFive[br]microcontroller, which is quite
0:26:28.059,0:26:34.640
interesting, but unfortunately can't run[br]Linux on it. So one of the surprises last
0:26:34.640,0:26:41.799
year at Fossdem was Palmer from SiFive[br]debut this board called the HiFive
0:26:41.799,0:26:46.510
Unleashed. So this is a multi core 64 bit[br]board that can run Linux. It runs it
0:26:46.510,0:26:51.049
really well. The one downside to this is[br]it was meant to be an evaluation board, so
0:26:51.049,0:26:54.769
it's quite expensive if it's a thousand[br]dollars. So in it, they're not going to
0:26:54.769,0:27:02.299
ever make it in volume. So a little[br]disappointing, but that. The other option
0:27:02.299,0:27:05.830
there. So there's these high end boards[br]like this one. It's kind of expensive
0:27:05.830,0:27:12.279
because it's made in low volume. There's[br]also some cheap microcontrollers. One is
0:27:12.279,0:27:20.780
called the, from Kendait the KT10. It is[br]basically a microcontroller with a lot of
0:27:20.780,0:27:26.420
memory. And it, there is possibility to[br]run Linux on it. So add Linux plumbers
0:27:26.420,0:27:31.450
this year when the people from Western[br]Digital gave a talk about running Linux on
0:27:31.450,0:27:35.690
this kind of essentially a[br]microcontroller. You can check out that
0:27:35.690,0:27:39.769
link there. There's a talk about it and[br]there's slides from the conference.
0:27:39.769,0:27:43.880
They're also in the Lenny's kernel. They[br]started adding support to be able to run
0:27:43.880,0:27:50.600
Linux on these RISC-V, essentially[br]microcontrollers. It's not great, but it's
0:27:50.600,0:27:54.720
kind of like we're gonna have to work what[br]we have with what. We have to work with,
0:27:54.720,0:28:01.040
what we have right now. If you're[br]interested more in more about how Linux
0:28:01.040,0:28:08.139
runs on RISC-V, then you can check out[br]this talk from hot chips a few months ago
0:28:08.139,0:28:14.040
and it goes into like how the Linux kernel[br]works on RISC-V. And the other cool thing
0:28:14.040,0:28:21.940
is both Debian and Fedora have initial[br]distributions now for RISC-V. And if you
0:28:21.940,0:28:28.320
don't have hardware like that unleashed[br]board, you can still try this out on your
0:28:28.320,0:28:36.951
computer using an emulator called QEMU. So[br]one of things is exciting is like two
0:28:36.951,0:28:43.700
weeks ago at the RISC-V summit in[br]California NXP announced that there's
0:28:43.700,0:28:49.830
going to be a chip early next year that's[br]going to be a Linux capable SoC. So this
0:28:49.830,0:28:54.191
is quite exciting. This could allow us to[br]make like a board that wouldn't be too
0:28:54.191,0:28:59.419
expensive and be pretty high performance.[br]So one of things I want to hopefully maybe
0:28:59.419,0:29:04.080
be a part of or encourage people to do is[br]make a board that's less than one hundred
0:29:04.080,0:29:10.140
dollars that runs risk five. One route is[br]we use FPGA as another route is maybe when
0:29:10.140,0:29:15.830
this chip comes out, there'd be a[br]possibility and then could we do it by the
0:29:15.830,0:29:20.450
next CCC? I don't know if you're[br]interested in this. Get in touch. I would
0:29:20.450,0:29:26.610
like to try and get a community effort[br]going around this idea of making a RISC-V
0:29:26.610,0:29:33.870
board that can run Linux. So I don't know[br]if I have any time left, but I'm happy to
0:29:33.870,0:29:38.380
take questions.[br][filler please remove in amara]
0:29:38.380,0:29:42.240
applause[br][filler please remove in amara]
0:29:42.240,0:29:49.200
Herald: Thanks, Drew, yes. We actually do[br]have some time left. Actually, about 10
0:29:49.200,0:29:54.490
minutes. So if you do have questions, pile[br]up at the microphones that you see here.
0:29:54.490,0:30:04.810
And we start with a question from the[br]Internet. Sure. Take your time. Just start
0:30:04.810,0:30:11.950
talking into the microphone. Yeah. Why is[br]the microphone off the signal angel not
0:30:11.950,0:30:16.440
working? All right. We just started with a[br]question from microphone number two then,
0:30:16.440,0:30:20.299
while the signal angel is working out his[br]microphone. There you go.
0:30:20.299,0:30:24.289
Mic 2: Hi. Is this working? Yes.[br]Herald: Move close to the microphone.
0:30:24.289,0:30:28.880
touches the microphone[br]Herald: It is on, It is on.
0:30:28.880,0:30:32.350
Mic 2: Hi, Drew. Thank you very much.[br]Thanks very much for the talk. I've been
0:30:32.350,0:30:36.889
having a lot of fun using your pocket[br]beguiling combination with the Bella
0:30:36.889,0:30:38.130
system.[br]Drew: Oh?
0:30:38.130,0:30:43.850
Mic 2: Actually, I've been able to get it[br]on stage on the Royal Albert Hall earlier
0:30:43.850,0:30:49.970
this year. And one of the things I'm[br]really enthused about in that project is
0:30:49.970,0:30:56.059
that using the center of my realtime[br]operating system. It really seems super.
0:30:56.059,0:31:02.460
Yeah. The breach between the low latency[br]performance of a microprocessor and the
0:31:02.460,0:31:11.139
the Octopus connects to everything in low[br]entry to development of Linux world. As
0:31:11.139,0:31:15.340
you see more of these examples using[br]?????? or order.
0:31:15.340,0:31:19.960
Drew: Yeah. So just to give people that[br]are familiar with the terms a little bit
0:31:19.960,0:31:25.639
of background, ??????????, essentially[br]this co kernel, it runs alongside Linux
0:31:25.639,0:31:32.889
and allows you to do like real time tasks[br]like in this case audio like low latency
0:31:32.889,0:31:37.490
audio for instruments or other things like[br]doing motor control. The Linux kernel
0:31:37.490,0:31:42.169
developers have been doing a lot of work[br]of getting the Linux kernel to run great
0:31:42.169,0:31:46.399
with real time tasks, but depends on what[br]your deadlines are. So for things like
0:31:46.399,0:31:49.640
building instruments, those are pretty[br]latency sensitive and ?????????? running
0:31:49.640,0:31:54.230
around of doing that. So if you're[br]interested in other projects called
0:31:54.230,0:32:00.289
Machine Kit, it's an open source CMC[br]controller. They simply have deadlines
0:32:00.289,0:32:07.790
like having to read a motoring coder or[br]send out pulses to a stepper motor. So,
0:32:07.790,0:32:11.309
you know, I think it really did. So with[br]real time things is what you're talking
0:32:11.309,0:32:15.100
about. It really depends on what your[br]deadlines are like. So in the case of
0:32:15.100,0:32:19.350
Bella, they're still using ?????????[br]because they need to be, they need a
0:32:19.350,0:32:24.590
certain minimum latency, that they can[br]still only achieve with that. But I will
0:32:24.590,0:32:28.010
say with the linux kernel, there's been a[br]lot of work that's been going on. And the
0:32:28.010,0:32:30.870
linux kernel was much better than it used[br]to be in terms of handling real time
0:32:30.870,0:32:32.919
tasks.[br]Mic 2: OK, cool.
0:32:32.919,0:32:35.919
Drew: And if you're interested in Bella, I[br]think there's someone from the team here
0:32:35.919,0:32:37.700
in the room, so..[br]Mic 2: Really?
0:32:37.700,0:32:40.669
Drew: Yeah, you can have..[br]Herald: The person identifying is
0:32:40.669,0:32:43.500
themselves here. All right.[br]Mic 2: Thank you.
0:32:43.500,0:32:46.909
Herald: Thanks for the question. Thanks[br]for the answer. Let's have another try
0:32:46.909,0:32:50.139
with the Internet?[br]Signal Angel: Is using open source
0:32:50.139,0:32:54.480
software hardware design required or[br]enforced to get the open hardware
0:32:54.480,0:32:56.830
certification?[br]Drew: Yeah, that's a really good question,
0:32:56.830,0:33:01.410
which I didn't clarify enough. So[br]according to the open source hardware
0:33:01.410,0:33:08.620
definition that we have from Oshawa, you[br]can use whatever software you want. One of
0:33:08.620,0:33:13.299
the reasons is for certain types of[br]things, especially like mechanical design,
0:33:13.299,0:33:17.309
proprietary software is still the norm.[br]This is also the case with circuit design.
0:33:17.309,0:33:21.299
Kicad has only really got in like really[br]good and stable probably the last five
0:33:21.299,0:33:26.340
years. So kind of as a matter of[br]practicality, 10 years ago, like most
0:33:26.340,0:33:30.720
people were still using proprietary[br]software to design mechanical designs and
0:33:30.720,0:33:34.279
software designs. Ideally, I think, you[br]know, if the ideas you want enable
0:33:34.279,0:33:38.889
collaboration, using free software, using[br]open source software would enable as many
0:33:38.889,0:33:43.110
people as possible to be able to[br]contribute to your project. But it is not
0:33:43.110,0:33:48.700
according to our definition that we have[br]hosted on Oshawa, is not a requirement. So
0:33:48.700,0:33:52.220
say best practice, use free software but[br]it is not required.
0:33:52.220,0:33:54.490
Herald: Thanks. Microphone number one,[br]please.
0:33:54.490,0:33:59.270
Mic 1: How far is the performance for[br]everyday computing on RISC-V. Like can I
0:33:59.270,0:34:03.750
run my everyday programing toolchain on a[br]RISC-V processor?
0:34:03.750,0:34:10.691
Drew: You could run it? The one downside[br]to the soft core is on these FPGA is so
0:34:10.691,0:34:15.859
like the ECP 5 which I mentioned, it's[br]only running at maybe 50 megahertz, 100
0:34:15.859,0:34:22.429
megahertz. One of the reasons I brought up[br]cymbal flow and project x ray is that's
0:34:22.429,0:34:27.690
going to enable us to use open source[br]tools on these higher end Xilinx FPGAs
0:34:27.690,0:34:34.210
which will unlock greater performance[br]still with soft cores. It's going to be if
0:34:34.210,0:34:37.560
you're looking to be competitive with like[br]ARM and Intel, it's not going to be there.
0:34:37.560,0:34:41.270
But one of the cool things that think[br]about is an FPGA. So you have a lot of
0:34:41.270,0:34:45.760
flexibility like in terms of the[br]peripherals you can do, you know, so kind
0:34:45.760,0:34:49.800
of getting creative in terms of, well,[br]maybe the clock speeds aren't really fast,
0:34:49.800,0:34:54.630
but it's enough PGA so you could add[br]hardware accelerators to do things that
0:34:54.630,0:34:58.940
you might otherwise be burning cycles on[br]our processor to do. But that's also why
0:34:58.940,0:35:02.980
I'm hoping people will start making chips.[br]I'm excited about that. And XP
0:35:02.980,0:35:09.410
announcement because yeah, like we need[br]silicon to have like the performance that
0:35:09.410,0:35:13.570
we're used to on like ARM and Intel.[br]Herald: Thanks. We have yet another
0:35:13.570,0:35:16.900
question from the Internet.[br]Signal Angel: Do you think it's feasible
0:35:16.900,0:35:21.420
to create a package manager for open[br]hardware like paper or NPM?
0:35:21.420,0:35:26.720
Drew: That is a good question and I think[br]one of the things that I would say like
0:35:26.720,0:35:30.420
open, open hardware is almost kind of like[br]20 years behind open source software. And
0:35:30.420,0:35:34.270
I think one of the reasons is a lot of the[br]tools that people use for designing
0:35:34.270,0:35:40.480
hardware. It's difficult to collaborate on[br]designs. You know, a lot of these CAD
0:35:40.480,0:35:44.530
programs like it's not the same as like[br]source code, like, you know, I store all
0:35:44.530,0:35:48.339
my hardware designs in github. But if I[br]look at like the diffs in git, like, you
0:35:48.339,0:35:53.230
know, they're not very meaningful. So I[br]think one of the issues we have is for
0:35:53.230,0:35:57.420
people to collaborate and hardware like we[br]need better tools that allowed us to track
0:35:57.420,0:36:02.690
changes. And in Nick do puri question[br]merges in a more meaningful way. So I'm
0:36:02.690,0:36:06.359
sure everyone here that sees CAD tools and[br]tried to work with other people. It can be
0:36:06.359,0:36:11.099
it can be difficult. So I think that's an[br]area that can be improved in terms of like
0:36:11.099,0:36:19.310
hosting things. You know, I just talked to[br]someone today that talked about the Open
0:36:19.310,0:36:22.190
Source Hardware Observatory where they[br]were trying to like collect lots of
0:36:22.190,0:36:25.950
different projects. So I think we can[br]definitely have Web sites that like show
0:36:25.950,0:36:31.500
what projects are out there. But in terms[br]of like being able to like collaborate on
0:36:31.500,0:36:35.210
things like libre course, check out libre[br]course, they're trying to do that as well
0:36:35.210,0:36:39.210
for processor design, being able to go on[br]there and like grab either net controller
0:36:39.210,0:36:44.241
or a memory controller in a way, actually[br]a chip design almost better because if you
0:36:44.241,0:36:48.990
look at the hardware design languages,[br]it's more like source code. But yeah.
0:36:48.990,0:36:54.170
Kicad is difficult to collaborate on[br]still, I think.
0:36:54.170,0:36:56.869
Herald: All righty. Microphone number one,[br]please.
0:36:56.869,0:37:00.060
Mic 1: During the presentation, you[br]mentioned that there are several great
0:37:00.060,0:37:05.650
products trying to develop software for[br]FPGA for commercial FPGA devices. I was
0:37:05.650,0:37:10.089
wondering if you are aware of any products[br]trying to develop open source FPGA
0:37:10.089,0:37:14.480
architecture or something similar to[br]RISC-V instruction set about for a FPG
0:37:14.480,0:37:17.400
world?[br]Drew: Right. So yeah. The other thing here
0:37:17.400,0:37:22.110
is so we're talking about open source[br]tools for getting things on to FPGAs, but
0:37:22.110,0:37:27.520
there's also the idea of like the open[br]source chip design. So I don't personally
0:37:27.520,0:37:32.119
I'm not heard of any like projects where[br]they're trying to do like an open source
0:37:32.119,0:37:39.520
FPGA. But I think if you if you have time[br]stopped by the open FPGA assembly and also
0:37:39.520,0:37:45.630
over and in the hardware hacking area. Tim[br]and Tim and Sloan's jobs are over there.
0:37:45.630,0:37:50.610
And they they know a lot about things that[br]are happening there as well. But I think
0:37:50.610,0:37:54.640
it would be cool and Bunny's talk here at[br]Congress on the first day was about the
0:37:54.640,0:38:00.099
idea of like using FPGA is because they're[br]more easier to inspect in if we can make
0:38:00.099,0:38:04.200
like an open source FPGA chip. I think[br]they'd be in better.
0:38:04.200,0:38:06.619
Herald: Another question from the[br]Internet, please?
0:38:06.619,0:38:09.040
Signal Angel: What about performance per[br]watt?
0:38:09.040,0:38:12.000
Drew: I'm sorry?[br]Signal Angel: What about performance per
0:38:12.000,0:38:15.780
watt?[br]Drew: With RISC-V or FPGA or..
0:38:15.780,0:38:22.070
Signal Angel: Both I think.[br]Drew: Both, yeah. Probably FPGA is not
0:38:22.070,0:38:26.761
great with that because, you know, as[br]compared to an asic or silicon design they
0:38:26.761,0:38:31.619
are not as power efficient. RISC-V, I[br]don't know. I've not seen a whole lot of
0:38:31.619,0:38:35.310
numbers around that. You know, I think[br]it's still kind of early days when it
0:38:35.310,0:38:39.500
comes to RISC-V. Also, like a lot of it's[br]still soft cores and FPGAs, but you're not
0:38:39.500,0:38:44.859
going to be as great in terms of power.[br]But there is a project out of ETH Zürich
0:38:44.859,0:38:53.220
of the university called Pulp P U L P and[br]it stands for parallel ultra low power. So
0:38:53.220,0:38:58.441
that's a family of RISC-V cores. So check[br]out pulp from ETH Zürich. I think they're
0:38:58.441,0:39:02.811
trying to do low power things.[br]Herald: Good question, though. Microphone
0:39:02.811,0:39:06.089
number one.[br]Mic 1: Thanks for the great talk. So as
0:39:06.089,0:39:11.990
you mentioned, there's a lot of NDAing and[br]copyrighting going on in the hardware
0:39:11.990,0:39:19.150
world. So one of the slides you showed[br]showed the risk 5 quad with an ??
0:39:19.150,0:39:24.740
interface next to it. So my question is,[br]do we have all the components, the
0:39:24.740,0:39:28.359
peripheral components to make a full[br]processor, on open source? So it there
0:39:28.359,0:39:31.319
still gaps in there?[br]Drew: I think there's still a lot of work
0:39:31.319,0:39:36.270
to be done there. And that's something[br]that Light X is trying to do like to pull
0:39:36.270,0:39:41.069
together these different IP blocks you[br]need to build the system on CHIP. Same
0:39:41.069,0:39:46.000
thing with libre of cause. But if you take[br]a look at ??? 5, like not everything. So
0:39:46.000,0:39:50.810
the core is open source, but in order to[br]tape out a chip that had certain
0:39:50.810,0:39:55.330
functionality like not all of the IP on[br]there is open source. So I think that is
0:39:55.330,0:40:00.631
something that hopefully in the future as[br]more people start doing open source IP for
0:40:00.631,0:40:04.070
chip design, we can hopefully have all the[br]different blocks that we need to make a
0:40:04.070,0:40:08.730
chip like one of the things CY 5 is[br]missing on their chips is, is USB, you
0:40:08.730,0:40:14.420
know, traditionally people like it will[br]get like USB controller from mentor
0:40:14.420,0:40:20.050
synopsis or something like that. So having[br]good, you know, verified, proven IP for
0:40:20.050,0:40:24.920
these common peripherals is important. So[br]yeah, it might be an open core, but then
0:40:24.920,0:40:28.900
it might have proprietary blocks around[br]it. So there's a lot of room there for
0:40:28.900,0:40:32.319
improvement, I think.[br]Herald: And with that, we're wrapping up.
0:40:32.319,0:40:34.950
Thank you very much for all of your[br]interesting questions. Also, thank you
0:40:34.950,0:40:38.390
very much for all the angels working here.[br]Thank you very much. To all the people
0:40:38.390,0:40:42.329
from Messe Leipzig, the Audio Video people[br]who work. And of course, the biggest thank
0:40:42.329,0:40:44.980
you again to Drew. Thank you very much for[br]the awesome talk. Another big, warm round
0:40:44.980,0:40:48.110
of applause, please. Thank you.[br][filler please remove in amara]
0:40:48.110,0:40:50.970
applause[br][filler please remove in amara]
0:40:50.970,0:40:53.710
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0:40:53.710,0:41:17.000
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