[Script Info]
Title: 
[Events]
Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,0:00:00.31,0:00:09.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}preroll music{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:00:09.51,0:00:13.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Herald: Actually, we have two\Nconsecutive talks of half an hour.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:13.51,0:00:17.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And as they’re both on the\Nsame more-or-less topic
Dialogue: 0,0:00:17.87,0:00:22.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we’ve decided to junk\Nthem. One is right now,
Dialogue: 0,0:00:22.44,0:00:26.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that’s Thomas Lohninger from\NAustria, my home country.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:26.14,0:00:29.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the next one is Fredy\NKuenzler from Switzerland.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:29.78,0:00:32.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And they’re both talking about the same\Nproblem. You know the old Churchill
Dialogue: 0,0:00:32.57,0:00:36.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,saying: “There’s two things you\Ndon’t wanna know exactly, that’s
Dialogue: 0,0:00:36.30,0:00:41.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how do they make sausages,\Nand how do they make laws?”.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:41.98,0:00:46.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, actually, you do wanna know\Nexactly how they make laws!
Dialogue: 0,0:00:46.54,0:00:49.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Otherwise you find yourself\Nwith a law you don’t want.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:49.86,0:00:53.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And a sarco enemy can avoid a banger,\Nbut you can’t avoid a law.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:53.34,0:00:57.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So Thomas here is gonna tell you\Nabout the fight for net neutrality
Dialogue: 0,0:00:57.72,0:01:02.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in Europe. And let’s have a big\Nhand for Thomas Lohninger!
Dialogue: 0,0:01:02.29,0:01:10.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:01:10.51,0:01:14.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thomas: Hello and thank you,\Neverybody! Good.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:14.07,0:01:17.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, let’s dive right in. We have a lot of\Nground to cover for the past 3 years
Dialogue: 0,0:01:17.69,0:01:22.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which have to fit in the next 30 minutes.\NSo I’m gonna talk fast at the end,
Dialogue: 0,0:01:22.03,0:01:25.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so that we have a little bit more\Ntime for the outlook in the future.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:25.36,0:01:29.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The subtitle of this talk is ‘Alea iacta\Nest’, so ‘the dices have fallen’
Dialogue: 0,0:01:29.54,0:01:33.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which in fact is not really true.\NWe now have legislation
Dialogue: 0,0:01:33.89,0:01:37.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in Europe for the first time, binding\Nlegislation for net neutrality
Dialogue: 0,0:01:37.71,0:01:41.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in all 28 member states. And this\Ntalk will be about the history
Dialogue: 0,0:01:41.91,0:01:46.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of this legislation and how civil society\Nplayed a huge role in this law.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:46.60,0:01:49.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But still the law that we have\Nnow is really ambiguous;
Dialogue: 0,0:01:49.30,0:01:53.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so the fight is not over. There are next\Nsteps to come which will actually give it
Dialogue: 0,0:01:53.14,0:01:57.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,real meaning, and influence what net\Nneutrality we’ll actually have in Europe.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:57.95,0:02:02.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A little bit of introduction: So,\Nnet neutrality in principle is
Dialogue: 0,0:02:02.62,0:02:07.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the universality of the network.\NAs you see here
Dialogue: 0,0:02:07.11,0:02:10.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we’re all interconnected\Nover the network and…
Dialogue: 0,0:02:10.37,0:02:14.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the basic foundational principles\Nthat boil down in these days
Dialogue: 0,0:02:14.85,0:02:19.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,– in the age of deep packet inspection\Nand discriminatory pricing –
Dialogue: 0,0:02:19.23,0:02:22.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,net neutrality boils down to\Ndiscrimination protection.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:22.75,0:02:26.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it’s basically preventing\NISPs to establish
Dialogue: 0,0:02:26.07,0:02:29.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,new discriminatory business models.\NThis was also the starting point
Dialogue: 0,0:02:29.91,0:02:34.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for this European legislation called\N‘Telecom Civil Market’. It’s a regulation;
Dialogue: 0,0:02:34.35,0:02:38.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that means it’s directly applicable\Nin all 28 member states,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:38.03,0:02:41.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not like a directive. It doesn’t have to\Nbe transposed to national legislation,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:41.93,0:02:45.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it’s already a law in all 28 countries.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:45.67,0:02:50.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the responsible commissioner, back in\NSeptember 2013, when it was introduced,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:50.54,0:02:53.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is this old lady, Neelie Kroes.\N{\i1}Audio/Video playback starts{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:02:53.50,0:02:58.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Neelie Kroes: It is a fact that we are all\Nconnected or we want to be connected.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:58.97,0:03:04.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So this package is essential for\NEurope’s strategic interests,
Dialogue: 0,0:03:04.10,0:03:09.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for Europe’s economic progress.\NIt is absolutely crucial
Dialogue: 0,0:03:09.94,0:03:14.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for the telecom sector itself.\NAnd, of course, for citizens
Dialogue: 0,0:03:14.30,0:03:19.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who need full and fair access\Nto telecom services such as
Dialogue: 0,0:03:19.45,0:03:23.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,internet, and such as mobile services.\N{\i1}Audio/Video playback stops{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:03:23.92,0:03:28.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thomas: “Such as internet”…\NThis is also the spirit of this whole law.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:28.14,0:03:32.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You have internet, which is kind of\Nneutral, and then you have other stuff.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:32.71,0:03:36.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Like specialized services, which you\Ncould basically translate in your head to
Dialogue: 0,0:03:36.00,0:03:39.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,‘net neutrality violation’, or ‘paid\Nfast lanes’. And if you look
Dialogue: 0,0:03:39.78,0:03:43.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the original Commission proposal,\Nwhich they put in front of us, they had
Dialogue: 0,0:03:43.49,0:03:47.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,really weird language, like “within\Nthe contract that you enter into
Dialogue: 0,0:03:47.67,0:03:51.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with your ISP you’re not allowed to\Ndiscriminate”. But if the contract states
Dialogue: 0,0:03:51.68,0:03:55.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that you have discriminatory pricing,\Nor different speeds for different types
Dialogue: 0,0:03:55.04,0:03:59.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of applications that would be legal, under\Nthe original Commission proposal.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:59.99,0:04:04.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The Commission had a 3-fold\Nstrategy: It used the election
Dialogue: 0,0:04:04.19,0:04:08.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to get the Parliament to adopt\Nthis regulation really fast,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:08.92,0:04:13.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to put it in a hurry, to rush this\Nthing through before the elections
Dialogue: 0,0:04:13.39,0:04:19.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in May 2014. It used a populist\Nelement which was roaming.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:19.34,0:04:22.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you have heard any coverage about\Nthis legislation it was probably
Dialogue: 0,0:04:22.99,0:04:27.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about the roaming part. That Europe\Nwould abolish roaming charges
Dialogue: 0,0:04:27.50,0:04:32.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which was actually kind of a fuzzy deal.\NYou will still have Roaming charges
Dialogue: 0,0:04:32.28,0:04:36.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but you will have different names and\Ndifferent forms. But that was something
Dialogue: 0,0:04:36.27,0:04:39.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which made it essential for all\NMEPs, for all parliamentarians
Dialogue: 0,0:04:39.84,0:04:44.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the European Parliament to\Npass this legislation really fast.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:44.21,0:04:47.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And they used bizarre and complex\Nlanguage as you’ve just seen:
Dialogue: 0,0:04:47.59,0:04:51.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the whole regulation was full of that.\NAnd the fourth point is
Dialogue: 0,0:04:51.46,0:04:55.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that in their language, in the PR\Nstrategy, they were always claiming
Dialogue: 0,0:04:55.49,0:04:59.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to support net neutrality. We see the\Nsame thing with Guenther Oettinger now,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:59.11,0:05:03.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the successor of Neelie Kroes, he’s also\Nsaying that he supports net neutrality,
Dialogue: 0,0:05:03.81,0:05:07.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but in fact he’s doing the opposite.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:07.45,0:05:11.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So what have we done, once this\Nregulation was in front of us?
Dialogue: 0,0:05:11.02,0:05:15.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We started to write amendments\Nin a wiki. Actually it took us
Dialogue: 0,0:05:15.04,0:05:18.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,only a month to come up with\Nthe first improvements for this text.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:18.70,0:05:23.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I also said that I wanted\Nto give some ‘lessons-learned’.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:23.03,0:05:28.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The first lesson-to-learn if you want to\Ninfluence European policy is: Come early!
Dialogue: 0,0:05:28.67,0:05:32.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The earlier you are on the table, the\Nearlier you start talking with officials
Dialogue: 0,0:05:32.07,0:05:36.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about a subject the more influence\Nyou will have on the process. So
Dialogue: 0,0:05:36.31,0:05:40.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if you want to influence legislation don’t\Nlook what is in the calendar next month
Dialogue: 0,0:05:40.34,0:05:45.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,– look what is in the calendar in 3 years.\NThen you have a good chance
Dialogue: 0,0:05:45.03,0:05:49.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to really make a difference. And we\Nhad the ‘savetheinternet’ campaign
Dialogue: 0,0:05:49.58,0:05:54.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which was actually launched here\Non that stage, 3 years ago.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:54.18,0:05:59.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the talk with Markus\NBeckedahl at 30C3.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:59.73,0:06:05.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the website basically\Nfollowed a simple idea.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:05.72,0:06:10.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Translate attention into political force.\NGive people something to do.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:10.53,0:06:14.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And provide actionable items – it’s the\Nsecond lesson that you can take away
Dialogue: 0,0:06:14.49,0:06:17.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from that. You have to give\Npeople something to do.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:17.91,0:06:20.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Otherwise they will not care about\Nthe subject. Otherwise they will
Dialogue: 0,0:06:20.05,0:06:24.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not get really involved.\NThey will not feel like they have
Dialogue: 0,0:06:24.39,0:06:27.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a part in whatever political\Nissue you wanna raise.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:27.73,0:06:31.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And emboss these\Nactionable items actually;
Dialogue: 0,0:06:31.38,0:06:35.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,translate the attention and the will\Nof the citizens into something
Dialogue: 0,0:06:35.78,0:06:39.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that’s in front of the officials,\Nin front of the parliamentarians.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:39.30,0:06:43.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In our case: calls, faxes,\Ntweets and emails.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:43.70,0:06:46.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,These were our actionable items; and
Dialogue: 0,0:06:46.99,0:06:51.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,here I also want to thank Michael\NBauer who was the core developer
Dialogue: 0,0:06:51.63,0:06:55.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of all the contact-your-MEP\Ntools of savetheinternet
Dialogue: 0,0:06:55.20,0:06:59.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,besides the Pi phone from\Nlaquadraturedenet who sadly deceased
Dialogue: 0,0:06:59.52,0:07:03.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with a heart attack this year. And…
Dialogue: 0,0:07:03.03,0:07:07.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:07:07.76,0:07:12.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But without him we never would\Nhave made it in such a good time.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:12.43,0:07:15.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He developed the whole contact\Nsuite in like a week or so.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:15.35,0:07:21.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He was a really brilliant person.\NSo the fax thing was really cool.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:21.15,0:07:24.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We sent around 40,000 faxes to the\Nparliament[arian]s, 20,000 of which
Dialogue: 0,0:07:24.55,0:07:31.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,were already also received by them. Here\Nagain, I want to thank the ISP Kappa
Dialogue: 0,0:07:31.15,0:07:35.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who sponsored us all those faxes\Nfor free, for the first round.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:35.26,0:07:38.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We didn’t have to pay for any of them.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:38.19,0:07:43.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So third lesson is: be creative.\NSo faxes were a novel thing,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:43.87,0:07:47.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It wasn’t done any time before.\NAnd so they were really influential
Dialogue: 0,0:07:47.78,0:07:52.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because suddenly you would have\Na physical token of a citizen’s will
Dialogue: 0,0:07:52.13,0:07:57.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the office of the parliamentarian. But\Nlike every creative campaigning idea
Dialogue: 0,0:07:57.22,0:08:00.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,only works once or twice now the\NParliament has switched to
Dialogue: 0,0:08:00.49,0:08:03.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,an electronic fax delivery.\NSo this idea no longer works.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:03.95,0:08:09.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,At least not so efficiently.\NSo you have to adopt fast.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:09.48,0:08:13.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is the process in the\NEuropean Parliament.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:13.07,0:08:16.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You have these several committees\Nwhich all adopt their opinions
Dialogue: 0,0:08:16.14,0:08:20.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the legislation. And then the whole\Nthing goes into the leading committee
Dialogue: 0,0:08:20.58,0:08:24.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,– the Industry Committee in this\Ncase. And then to plenary.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:24.01,0:08:27.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Here I wanna thank Petra Kammerevert,\NGerman Social Democrat.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:27.39,0:08:31.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was like the only MEP that sticked with\Nus, from the beginning to the end.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:31.89,0:08:36.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,She was really fighting like hell.\NAnd she was one of the good guys.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:36.01,0:08:39.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One of the bad guys is [Vera] Pilar del\NCastillo, the Rapporteur down there,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:39.32,0:08:42.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the ITRE committee. As\Na Rapporteur she has a lot of power
Dialogue: 0,0:08:42.76,0:08:46.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,over the process of this legislation\Nin Europe. And she was really
Dialogue: 0,0:08:46.67,0:08:51.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,working against us wherever she could.\NAnd also working against the opinion
Dialogue: 0,0:08:51.31,0:08:56.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the European Parliament. So she was not\Nreally negotiating to get the good deal
Dialogue: 0,0:08:56.24,0:09:00.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the parliament adopted in plenary\Nin first reading. She was really working
Dialogue: 0,0:09:00.27,0:09:05.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to get what the telcos and Telefonica\Nare wanting. And so in the plenary
Dialogue: 0,0:09:05.20,0:09:09.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we actually managed to get amendments\Nthrough. Before that, it looked quite grim
Dialogue: 0,0:09:09.39,0:09:13.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but we had those amendments\Nwhich got a majority
Dialogue: 0,0:09:13.51,0:09:17.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and which brought us the victory.\NBecause this legislation is now passed
Dialogue: 0,0:09:17.76,0:09:21.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and published in the journal, I’m now\Nalso at liberty to speak a little bit more
Dialogue: 0,0:09:21.83,0:09:27.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about what is the background\Nof it. And actually,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:27.32,0:09:33.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as you have here in this email\Nfrom a UK Social Democrat,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:33.69,0:09:38.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the text came from civil society,\Nwhich in fact is true.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:38.96,0:09:44.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When we drafted this text there were\Nlike 3 things that we had to do.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:44.65,0:09:49.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We had to fix all loop holes. We had\Nto change as little as necessary,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:49.32,0:09:53.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so only minor text changes.\NEvery word is costly.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:53.34,0:09:57.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we couldn’t use any politically\Nloaded phrases. So we had to come up
Dialogue: 0,0:09:57.33,0:10:01.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with totally new language. Which\Nwould solve all problems but still
Dialogue: 0,0:10:01.69,0:10:06.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,get a majority which in fact\Nwe managed to achieve.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:06.59,0:10:15.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There was also a bigger majority…\N{\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:10:15.51,0:10:19.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So that’s us celebrating\Nafter the victory. And…
Dialogue: 0,0:10:19.94,0:10:24.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that was big fun. So fourth lesson
Dialogue: 0,0:10:24.98,0:10:29.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to take away is: Be clear about\Nyour demands with politicians.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:29.09,0:10:33.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You will not succeed in asking\Nfor stuff that you will not…
Dialogue: 0,0:10:33.35,0:10:36.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that is impossible for the politician.\NYou have to ask for something
Dialogue: 0,0:10:36.11,0:10:39.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is realistic. And in their eyes\Ngetting a good text in first reading
Dialogue: 0,0:10:39.78,0:10:45.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was realistic. But there were many\Nformality arguments in second reading.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:45.10,0:10:48.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Which worked against us, and\Nat the end broke our necks.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:48.69,0:10:52.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One was that the parliament is\Nnot really emancipated from
Dialogue: 0,0:10:52.64,0:10:57.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the other institutions. Council has much\Nmore power. So the member states
Dialogue: 0,0:10:57.18,0:11:01.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,really can make demands and draw red lines\Nthat the parliament is not really willing
Dialogue: 0,0:11:01.74,0:11:06.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to step over. And ‘second reading’ also\Nmeans that you need an absolute majority
Dialogue: 0,0:11:06.98,0:11:11.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for any amendment. Not just a simple\Nmajority. So half of all MEPs
Dialogue: 0,0:11:11.66,0:11:15.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and not just those who\Nare present at the vote.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:15.69,0:11:20.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But it’s not all just the first reading:\Nhere you have a basic idea of
Dialogue: 0,0:11:20.15,0:11:25.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how laws are adopted in the European\NUnion. With the Commission on top,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:25.03,0:11:29.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the Parliament at the left and the member\Nstates in the Council on the right.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:29.58,0:11:33.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we had savetheinternet\Ncampaigns for all of those steps.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:33.66,0:11:36.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And basically when the Commission adopted\Ntheir proposal that was of course
Dialogue: 0,0:11:36.96,0:11:41.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,anti net neutrality at its best.\NThe Parliament fixed it,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:41.12,0:11:45.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the Council reverted it and really came\Nup with a text that was partly even worse
Dialogue: 0,0:11:45.69,0:11:49.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,than what the Commission\Noriginally wanted.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:49.44,0:11:54.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then those 3 institutions sat\Ntogether in the most intransparent way
Dialogue: 0,0:11:54.86,0:12:01.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you could imagine… and came\Ntogether and made a new text.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:01.31,0:12:04.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the agreement here, in trialub (?),\Nthat was actually reached
Dialogue: 0,0:12:04.68,0:12:09.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at 2 AM with everybody almost\Nasleep, everybody like:
Dialogue: 0,0:12:09.20,0:12:13.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,“Okay, let’s fix this, let’s fix this…”.\NAnd the Liberals,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:13.94,0:12:18.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the Greens, the Left, all of them were\Nalready out of the room. They were saying:
Dialogue: 0,0:12:18.47,0:12:21.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,“Okay, no deal, we’ll continue\Nafter the summer break,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:21.91,0:12:25.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,let’s just not continue any\Nmore discussion!” And then
Dialogue: 0,0:12:25.88,0:12:30.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the negotiator from the Social Democrats,\NPatricia Toia, she was already standing
Dialogue: 0,0:12:30.21,0:12:33.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the doorway with her\Nhandbag in her hand.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:33.74,0:12:36.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then she agreed to this proposal.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:36.96,0:12:41.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because the Conservatives gave her some\Nconcessions on Roaming, then she agreed,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:41.02,0:12:44.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the shitty net neutrality. So that’s\Nit actually what it boils down to,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:44.55,0:12:49.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at some stages. And it was [Pilar del]\NCastillo who was driving this compromise.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:49.85,0:12:52.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we had a really bad text\Nwhich was on the table.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:52.66,0:12:56.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And agreed between all 3 institutions.\NBut then it would still need
Dialogue: 0,0:12:56.66,0:13:00.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to go through Parliament.\NAnd we had to ask ourselves
Dialogue: 0,0:13:00.76,0:13:04.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,over the summer break: “Is this text\Nworse than useless?” Should we really
Dialogue: 0,0:13:04.31,0:13:07.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,fight for amendments, or\Nshould we fight for deletion?
Dialogue: 0,0:13:07.95,0:13:12.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This was a huge argument\Nwithin the savetheinternet coalition.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:12.58,0:13:16.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And even I was sympathetic\Nwith both sides.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:16.70,0:13:19.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But at the end we thought\Nthis text is better than
Dialogue: 0,0:13:19.86,0:13:23.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,e.g. what the US had in their first\Nnet neutrality law. And therefor
Dialogue: 0,0:13:23.94,0:13:28.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it’s worth fighting. Because maybe there\Nare countries, like Austria, like Germany,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:28.42,0:13:31.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like the Netherlands that have or\Nwould adopt good legislation.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:31.86,0:13:36.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But many other countries would not.\NAnd so, in the sense of the European Union
Dialogue: 0,0:13:36.47,0:13:42.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we thought: “Better have this compromise\Nfor 28 instead of just a few good laws.”
Dialogue: 0,0:13:42.04,0:13:44.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then something really magical\Nhappened. Because finally we got support
Dialogue: 0,0:13:44.65,0:13:49.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from the US. We had Barbara van\NSchewick, the world’s leading expert
Dialogue: 0,0:13:49.16,0:13:53.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and scientist on net neutrality\Nspeaking out in support for us.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:53.34,0:13:57.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So did Lawrence Lessig, so\Ndid Sir Tim Berners-Lee, and
Dialogue: 0,0:13:57.32,0:14:01.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,many other supporters. And we also had\Ncompanies getting involved, start-ups
Dialogue: 0,0:14:01.03,0:14:05.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and big internet companies like Wordpress.\NAnd we also had venture capitalists
Dialogue: 0,0:14:05.63,0:14:09.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that urged the parliamentarians to\Nreally adopt these amendments,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:09.80,0:14:13.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,make this a clear legislation. Because\Notherwise they would stop investing
Dialogue: 0,0:14:13.03,0:14:18.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,into European start-ups. Because I would\Nnot get money into a business model
Dialogue: 0,0:14:18.52,0:14:23.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which might not work in a few months.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:23.19,0:14:27.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And also in Germany we had big\Nsupport from the media authorities,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:27.01,0:14:31.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the Landesmedienanstalten, and the\NAssociation of German Journalists.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:31.20,0:14:34.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Many others. But really, what we\Ndidn’t do here, we didn’t come early.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:34.91,0:14:39.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This was all a last-minute action. The\Nreal traction this whole thing gained
Dialogue: 0,0:14:39.11,0:14:42.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,one week before the final vote!\NAnd that was too late.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:42.68,0:14:46.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If we could have had this traction,\Nthis media coverage beforehand
Dialogue: 0,0:14:46.26,0:14:51.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then it might have turned out differently.\NBut what you can take away from that is
Dialogue: 0,0:14:51.00,0:14:54.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we have to broaden our movement.\NThat we really have to go
Dialogue: 0,0:14:54.52,0:14:59.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,out of the net political nerd bubble.\NWe have to reach other people.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:59.44,0:15:03.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Digital rights issues are\Nbroad civil society issues.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:03.03,0:15:07.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we have to treat them as such.\NGo to the churches. Go to the journalists.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:07.10,0:15:12.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Go to whomever is willing to listen, and\Nmake your cause, and broaden the movement.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:12.35,0:15:16.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we had really creative\Nactions like here in Barcelona.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:16.49,0:15:22.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Our member Xnet had this nice projection\Non the building of Telefonica.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:22.07,0:15:26.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But at the end it didn’t work. We\Nfailed in Second Reading. And I have
Dialogue: 0,0:15:26.29,0:15:31.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to speed up a little bit and explain you\Nwhy this is not the end of net neutrality.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:31.02,0:15:35.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I know this was in the media quite\Nheavily. And if you look at it binarily,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:35.51,0:15:38.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of course this is a loss for us because\Nwe campaigned for amendments
Dialogue: 0,0:15:38.96,0:15:42.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we did not succeed. But still\Nthe text it’s now on the table.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:42.72,0:15:45.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The biggest problem\Nis that it’s ambiguous.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:45.17,0:15:49.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But it has some good parts in it. And one\Nword of advice: you have to keep in mind
Dialogue: 0,0:15:49.86,0:15:53.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the US also needed two\Napproaches to get this right.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:53.05,0:15:57.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The first net neutrality laws were\Neven worse than what we have now.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:57.56,0:16:00.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is clarity that this is now\Napplicable – not only to fixed line
Dialogue: 0,0:16:00.95,0:16:06.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but also to mobile internet. And at least\Nwe’ll see no longer commercial blocking
Dialogue: 0,0:16:06.06,0:16:09.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in Europe. You could still have state\Nblocking, so like censorship lists
Dialogue: 0,0:16:09.80,0:16:13.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from any public authority. But\Nyou could not e.g. block Skype
Dialogue: 0,0:16:13.85,0:16:20.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if you are a mobile operator and want\Npeople corner into using your own roaming.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:20.00,0:16:24.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is intentional ambiguity, and all\Nthe big questions about net neutrality and
Dialogue: 0,0:16:24.10,0:16:29.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,paid fast lanes. And so the real decision\Nis now left to the unelected regulators.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:29.29,0:16:33.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And to the unelected judges. We\Nmost certainly expect court cases
Dialogue: 0,0:16:33.63,0:16:38.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in front of the European High Court.\NAnd this means huge legal uncertainty.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:38.49,0:16:44.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Which is really bad. Not only for\Ncitizens but also for business.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:44.03,0:16:50.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So there are 4 big subjects\Nwe have to cover.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:50.02,0:16:54.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That are still in the debate now with the\NEuropean regulator that’s now tasked with
Dialogue: 0,0:16:54.01,0:16:59.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,giving this law actual meaning.\NSpecialized services…
Dialogue: 0,0:16:59.00,0:17:02.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as I said you could translate it in\Nyour head with ‘paid fast lanes’
Dialogue: 0,0:17:02.73,0:17:06.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and ‘not net neutrality’ or with ‘those\Nservices that really have nothing to do
Dialogue: 0,0:17:06.66,0:17:10.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the internet’. That has to be our\Ngoal here. There are 5 safeguards
Dialogue: 0,0:17:10.63,0:17:15.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the regulation that we have to apply\Nright and then we can still achieve
Dialogue: 0,0:17:15.54,0:17:21.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that goal. But the regulators… like\Nthese are the 28 organizations
Dialogue: 0,0:17:21.66,0:17:26.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in Europe that are tasked with\Nregulating the telecom markets.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:26.21,0:17:29.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They are not doing anything else than\Nreading laws and applying them
Dialogue: 0,0:17:29.59,0:17:34.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the market. And that’s one of the\Nquestions they asked us in the hearing.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:34.04,0:17:39.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So would it be okay to have internet\Nservices as specialized services?
Dialogue: 0,0:17:39.02,0:17:42.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And you can see how really vague and\Nambiguous this law is, if this is
Dialogue: 0,0:17:42.61,0:17:47.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the basic question that they’re asking us.\NSimilarly with zero rating, the practice
Dialogue: 0,0:17:47.72,0:17:52.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of commercial discrimination. If some\Ndata packages cost more than others.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:52.25,0:17:56.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Again, we have some sort\Nof safeguard here.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:56.13,0:18:00.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But ‘commercial practices’ is the corner\Nword here. Because zero rating
Dialogue: 0,0:18:00.98,0:18:05.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is not mentioned in the whole legislation.\N‘Commercial practices’ – and that’s
Dialogue: 0,0:18:05.10,0:18:09.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the funny part. They’re asking us\N– the regulators asking civil society –
Dialogue: 0,0:18:09.26,0:18:13.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what in our understanding ‘commercial\Npractices’ actually means. And
Dialogue: 0,0:18:13.58,0:18:17.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from our perspective there are 2 ways of\Nseeing it. Either it means ‘zero rating’
Dialogue: 0,0:18:17.75,0:18:22.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in which case it has to be prohibited. Or\Nit means anything else in which case
Dialogue: 0,0:18:22.18,0:18:29.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,e.g. it could mean ‘interconnection’.\NThat applies perfectly to the legislation.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:29.98,0:18:35.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But in that case this whole topic would\Nbe left for national legislation.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:35.10,0:18:39.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So the Dutch net neutrality law\Ncould still outlaw zero rating,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:39.65,0:18:44.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or Germany could adopt a new law\Nwhich would prohibit that practice.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:44.38,0:18:48.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A very important point which was\Nsadly not so much discussed
Dialogue: 0,0:18:48.75,0:18:53.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is traffic management. There is\Na risk that ISPs could introduce
Dialogue: 0,0:18:53.46,0:18:59.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a class based CIF system to manage\Ncongestion, e.g. That would look like:
Dialogue: 0,0:18:59.07,0:19:02.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,“Okay, we have all video streaming\Napplications in one class
Dialogue: 0,0:19:02.18,0:19:07.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we prioritize them. But we don’t\Nprioritize telephony applications,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:07.50,0:19:12.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because although they also are\Ndelay-sensitive they are
Dialogue: 0,0:19:12.02,0:19:16.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,against our own business models, and\Ntherefor we are not prioritizing them.”
Dialogue: 0,0:19:16.21,0:19:20.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Class-based traffic management has another\Nbig problem. And you can look at the UK
Dialogue: 0,0:19:20.19,0:19:27.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where this is a common practice.\NIf you want to throttle file-sharing
Dialogue: 0,0:19:27.34,0:19:30.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you have some gaming applications\Nthat look similar like file-sharing
Dialogue: 0,0:19:30.69,0:19:33.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you could end up with\Nthrottled gaming applications
Dialogue: 0,0:19:33.93,0:19:38.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which make the games unusable.\NAnd so in the UK you have now
Dialogue: 0,0:19:38.65,0:19:43.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,standing committees between game\Ndevelopers and ISPs like Plusnet
Dialogue: 0,0:19:43.75,0:19:47.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and before they have a rollout of a new\Ngame they have to sit down and agree
Dialogue: 0,0:19:47.95,0:19:51.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the technical characteristics,\Nso that the game actually works
Dialogue: 0,0:19:51.22,0:19:55.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the British internet. And this is\Nthe total opposite of innovation
Dialogue: 0,0:19:55.12,0:19:59.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,without permission.\NAnd from our understanding
Dialogue: 0,0:19:59.40,0:20:03.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,traffic management always has to be\Nas application agnostic as possible.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:03.70,0:20:08.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So: only look at the header, don’t\Nlook in the contents of the package,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:08.29,0:20:13.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,don’t make any differentiation\Nbetween applications or services.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:13.64,0:20:16.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there’s also a problem: If you\Nlook at the content, if you want
Dialogue: 0,0:20:16.96,0:20:20.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to treat encrypted traffic differently\Nthere is a risk that all encrypted traffic
Dialogue: 0,0:20:20.96,0:20:29.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,could end up in the slow lane.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:29.03,0:20:32.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In principle this is what we want to\Nachieve. Be as application agnostic
Dialogue: 0,0:20:32.60,0:20:36.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as possible and then only allow\Ntraffic management based
Dialogue: 0,0:20:36.95,0:20:41.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on technical characteristics where it is\Nreally necessary and proportionate
Dialogue: 0,0:20:41.03,0:20:44.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you cannot solve the problem\Nin any other way. And then only
Dialogue: 0,0:20:44.14,0:20:49.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if this is not sufficient you could\Nresert to a class-based system.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:49.99,0:20:54.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Transparency – we will see\Nsome big change here
Dialogue: 0,0:20:54.14,0:20:57.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when it comes to advertised\Nand real speeds of internet.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:57.85,0:21:00.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So if this regulation enters into force\Nand if the transparency provisions
Dialogue: 0,0:21:00.96,0:21:05.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are applied correctly you will no\Nlonger have just up to a certain
Dialogue: 0,0:21:05.14,0:21:08.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Megabyte [per second] of internet; instead\Nyou will have a minimum, an average
Dialogue: 0,0:21:08.91,0:21:12.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and a maximum bandwidth which\Nhas to be stated in the contract. So
Dialogue: 0,0:21:12.22,0:21:17.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,more accurate information\Nfor consumers. Now,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:17.37,0:21:21.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this is the organization that is now\Ntasked with making actual sense
Dialogue: 0,0:21:21.14,0:21:26.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,out of this legislation. So this is the\Numbrella of all 28 regulatory authorities
Dialogue: 0,0:21:26.56,0:21:31.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in Europe. Like Bundesnetzagentur\Nin Germany, or RTR in Austria.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:31.93,0:21:35.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,All those come together under\Nthe umbrella of BEREC; and
Dialogue: 0,0:21:35.87,0:21:39.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they now have until the end of\Naugust, according to the regulation,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:39.71,0:21:43.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to come up with actual guidelines\Nthat give this text real meaning.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:43.63,0:21:47.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And if we look at the timeline this\Nis basically our work programme
Dialogue: 0,0:21:47.57,0:21:50.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which we’ll have to fill with life.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:50.92,0:21:54.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The parliament adopted the\Nregulation in October; and
Dialogue: 0,0:21:54.38,0:21:58.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it was published in the journal on\NNovember 26 which gives us the 9 months
Dialogue: 0,0:21:58.23,0:22:03.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of time we now have. And there\Nwas a stakeholder hearing
Dialogue: 0,0:22:03.18,0:22:07.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from civil society; I could\Nparticipate for EDRI; and
Dialogue: 0,0:22:07.22,0:22:11.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we basically sat down with the regulators\Nand gave them our interpretation
Dialogue: 0,0:22:11.21,0:22:14.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the text. But just so did also the\Ncontent application providers
Dialogue: 0,0:22:14.58,0:22:18.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like the public broadcasters,\Nor internet companies;
Dialogue: 0,0:22:18.65,0:22:22.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and so did the telecom industry. So\Nnow they have to strike a balance
Dialogue: 0,0:22:22.07,0:22:25.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,between those 3 stakeholder groups.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:25.52,0:22:30.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We’re now at a point where the working\Ngroups are drafting the guidelines.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:30.80,0:22:35.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Really weird fact: the whole\Nregulation will enter into force
Dialogue: 0,0:22:35.05,0:22:38.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the end of April. Although the\Nguidelines are not applicable there.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:38.63,0:22:41.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And nobody could answer the\Nquestion what this actually means
Dialogue: 0,0:22:41.22,0:22:46.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if there would be a case, in this\Nperiod between April and August.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:46.84,0:22:50.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So this working draft will\Nthen be voted in plenary
Dialogue: 0,0:22:50.63,0:22:54.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the end of June, and then we’ll\Nhave 20 days of public consultation.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:54.40,0:22:58.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You’ll have 20 days to say\Nwhat you think about
Dialogue: 0,0:22:58.29,0:23:02.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the new net neutrality in Europe.\NWhich is ridiculous. And then they have
Dialogue: 0,0:23:02.11,0:23:06.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,roughly a little bit less than two months\Nto analyze all this feedback,
Dialogue: 0,0:23:06.64,0:23:10.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and to redraft the guidelines.\NSo the more feedback they receive
Dialogue: 0,0:23:10.45,0:23:14.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the fewer time they’ll have to actually\Nredraft the whole thing before it’s
Dialogue: 0,0:23:14.81,0:23:18.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,finally voted in the extraordinary\Nplenary within BEREC.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:18.33,0:23:23.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So that it can be published.\NSo let’s focus on those 20 days.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:23.50,0:23:28.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In the US we had several months of\Nconsultation and 4 Mio. comments.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:28.75,0:23:34.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In India it was 28 days.\NStill 1 Mio. comments.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:34.37,0:23:36.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And they are continuing. They all have\Nanother consultation up and running
Dialogue: 0,0:23:36.97,0:23:41.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,right now. And now in\NEurope we have 20 days.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:41.01,0:23:44.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So this is the comparison that we face.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:44.33,0:23:47.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And this also means for European\Ncivil society and all those people
Dialogue: 0,0:23:47.70,0:23:51.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who care about the internet – this is the\Ntime line, and this is the opportunity
Dialogue: 0,0:23:51.69,0:23:56.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we have. We can look at the US.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:56.27,0:24:00.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is an analysis of the comments\Nthat were given to the FCC
Dialogue: 0,0:24:00.66,0:24:04.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when they first asked for\Nopinions about net neutrality.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:04.39,0:24:10.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there is now a huge collection\Nof scientific papers,
Dialogue: 0,0:24:10.55,0:24:14.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,visualizations and everything\Nabout this huge record
Dialogue: 0,0:24:14.87,0:24:18.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about the topic of net neutrality.\NSo you can see that there are
Dialogue: 0,0:24:18.69,0:24:22.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so many issues that – also organically –\Nthat people commented [on].
Dialogue: 0,0:24:22.25,0:24:26.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You have very few templates in here.\NSo out of these 4 Mio. comments
Dialogue: 0,0:24:26.93,0:24:31.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,many of them are actually people sitting\Ndown, writing in their own words
Dialogue: 0,0:24:31.59,0:24:35.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what they think about the subject.\NHow it would influence their business.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:35.38,0:24:39.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How it would influence their education.\NHow it would influence the network
Dialogue: 0,0:24:39.37,0:24:42.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that they are running. And you\Nhave many interesting stuff like
Dialogue: 0,0:24:42.96,0:24:48.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,“you need net neutrality\Nfor the American Dream”.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:48.42,0:24:51.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the idea behind that is also a\N“maybe we can take some advice
Dialogue: 0,0:24:51.93,0:24:56.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from the US, here, for Europe”.\NThat America is America
Dialogue: 0,0:24:56.03,0:25:00.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because you can connect to different\Nopinions. At the core of net neutrality
Dialogue: 0,0:25:00.66,0:25:04.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you have the equality of the network.\NAnd this was preserved here
Dialogue: 0,0:25:04.98,0:25:09.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the new rules in the US; and we\Nshould really take advice on that.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:09.52,0:25:14.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that’s also why we as\Nsavetheinternet coalition
Dialogue: 0,0:25:14.27,0:25:17.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,will come up with a new version\Nof the website. That will
Dialogue: 0,0:25:17.44,0:25:20.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,support the consultation and\Nextend it, not just in the 20 days
Dialogue: 0,0:25:20.86,0:25:25.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but for a longer time period. So that\Nmore of you have the opportunity
Dialogue: 0,0:25:25.68,0:25:29.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to have an actionable item, to do\Nsomething for this legislation.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:29.35,0:25:33.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And to really have your say.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:33.77,0:25:38.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In the remaining time I would like\Nto step a little bit out of Europe
Dialogue: 0,0:25:38.00,0:25:41.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and follow the motto\Nof this year’s Congress,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:41.97,0:25:47.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and look a bit at the global issue.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:47.60,0:25:51.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You see now there’s… many\Nlegislation are actually discussed
Dialogue: 0,0:25:51.87,0:25:56.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or already in place. It varies greatly\Nin the amount of safeguard
Dialogue: 0,0:25:56.32,0:26:02.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that it provides for citizens. And thanks\Nto Andre Meister from netzpolitik.org
Dialogue: 0,0:26:02.56,0:26:06.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we have a little collection of all the\Nbillboards and advertisements
Dialogue: 0,0:26:06.39,0:26:10.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in Latin America about zero rating.\NSo let’s have a look how this is
Dialogue: 0,0:26:10.77,0:26:14.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,seen in Peru, in Chile and other\Ncountries. You have here
Dialogue: 0,0:26:14.52,0:26:18.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,free social networking which\Nis huge advertisement donors.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:18.00,0:26:23.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And you have full internet\Nwith this websites.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:23.74,0:26:27.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we’re not speaking about nerdy stuff.\NThis is like a selling proposition,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:27.79,0:26:33.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that you can have these services for free,\Ntherefor buy my SIMCard, buy my internet.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:33.67,0:26:37.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it goes on and on like that. But it
Dialogue: 0,0:26:37.44,0:26:42.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,gets really ugly if you look at\Nwhat’s happening in India right now.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:42.43,0:26:45.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Facebook has this program called\Ninternet.org which is basically
Dialogue: 0,0:26:45.35,0:26:50.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a gated community which gives\Npoor people without any access
Dialogue: 0,0:26:50.05,0:26:55.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to the internet just access to\NFacebook and a few other sites.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:55.21,0:26:58.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And Facebook is now on the\Noffensive. They are asking citizens
Dialogue: 0,0:26:58.65,0:27:03.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to lobby the regulator\Nagainst net neutrality.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:03.31,0:27:06.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They’re really challenged in that, and\Nyou could see that Facebook was
Dialogue: 0,0:27:06.72,0:27:10.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,fast responding because\Nthe public pressure in India
Dialogue: 0,0:27:10.94,0:27:16.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,amounted to companies, and\Ntelecom actors and also politicians
Dialogue: 0,0:27:16.23,0:27:21.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,publicly denouncing this\Nprogram. I can only quote
Dialogue: 0,0:27:21.25,0:27:26.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,one of the founders of\Nsavetheinternet.in, Nikhil Baba.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:26.09,0:27:29.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He said yesterday that the only question\Nthat he would ask Mark Zuckerberg
Dialogue: 0,0:27:29.91,0:27:35.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who is always on the forefront\Nto defend his program:
Dialogue: 0,0:27:35.14,0:27:39.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,“Why is he just giving\Nthese free basic services
Dialogue: 0,0:27:39.22,0:27:42.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with just a few selected hundred sites
Dialogue: 0,0:27:42.41,0:27:46.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,instead of giving them the whole\Naccess to the internet?”. If you give
Dialogue: 0,0:27:46.35,0:27:50.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the bandwidth that’s reserved for these\Nprograms just freely to everybody
Dialogue: 0,0:27:50.38,0:27:54.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so that they can use them in whatever\Nway they want you would achieve
Dialogue: 0,0:27:54.48,0:27:58.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,exactly the same commercial\Ninterest for the telecom providers.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:58.73,0:28:04.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there are similar programs from\NMozilla and also from other Indian ISPs
Dialogue: 0,0:28:04.34,0:28:09.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that just give people 3 months\Nof a few megabytes
Dialogue: 0,0:28:09.30,0:28:12.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to get them hooked on the\Ninternet. If this is just the idea
Dialogue: 0,0:28:12.03,0:28:16.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to bridge the digital gap by getting\Npeople some sense of our internet
Dialogue: 0,0:28:16.80,0:28:21.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that could be easily done by that way.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:21.39,0:28:25.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have to look at the challenges for\Nthe global net neutrality movement.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:25.23,0:28:30.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This issue is far from just\Na Western debate right now.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:30.17,0:28:34.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we always have been wondering in the\NDigital Rights movement how it would be
Dialogue: 0,0:28:34.05,0:28:37.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if Google or Facebook would be\Non the other side of our debate.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:37.93,0:28:41.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If they really would fight against us.\NWe can look at the global south.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:41.59,0:28:45.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It’s first happening there. So
Dialogue: 0,0:28:45.03,0:28:49.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that’s the end of my talk and also\Nmy time. I want to thank you.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:49.16,0:28:52.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I want to urge you to keep fighting;\Nnet neutrality is not lost in Europe.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:52.97,0:28:56.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It’s more like we now have\Na really ambiguous law.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:56.02,0:29:00.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The responsibility lies now with the\Nregulators. So we are in a way
Dialogue: 0,0:29:00.82,0:29:05.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at a point where the US was in 2014. And\Nnow we have to do a similar mobilization.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:05.40,0:29:10.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have to do a similar form\Nof argumentation to get it right.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:10.00,0:29:15.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And savetheinternet is\Na coalition of 12 NGOs,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:15.87,0:29:20.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we don’t have one fixed hub, but\Nthere is a lot of development going on
Dialogue: 0,0:29:20.53,0:29:25.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in Austria. And we’ll also have a workshop\Ntoday at 6 PM at the EDRI assembly
Dialogue: 0,0:29:25.70,0:29:31.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at Noisy Square. If you want to get\Ninvolved, if you have a special interest,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:31.47,0:29:36.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a business, or are an ISP, then\Nplease participate in this workshop
Dialogue: 0,0:29:36.65,0:29:40.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to get the new savetheinternet\Nas best as we can. Thank you!
Dialogue: 0,0:29:40.47,0:29:52.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:29:52.43,0:29:55.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Herald: Okay, we gonna do something\Nunorthodox today. We gonna have
Dialogue: 0,0:29:55.09,0:29:59.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the next talk right onto this one.\NPlease – flying change of people
Dialogue: 0,0:29:59.46,0:30:03.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who wanna come and leave! Because\Nthe two talks are related we’ll have
Dialogue: 0,0:30:03.46,0:30:07.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ten minutes of Q&A after the next talk.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:07.40,0:30:11.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So here’s – das ist jetzt eine\NSchwietzer Angelegenheit –
Dialogue: 0,0:30:11.37,0:30:15.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this is the gentleman from\NSwitzerland, Fredy Kuenzler!
Dialogue: 0,0:30:15.32,0:30:18.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Fredy: He speaks Fribourg dialect!\N{\i1}laughter{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:30:18.46,0:30:25.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Can you believe that? Fribourg –\Nand pretty good actually!
Dialogue: 0,0:30:25.26,0:30:30.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Herald: We both agree that buffering\Nsucks, so please, let me have a hand
Dialogue: 0,0:30:30.00,0:30:32.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for – Fredy Kuenzler!\N{\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:30:32.15,0:30:40.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:30:40.53,0:30:44.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Fredy Kuenzler: Thank you! My name\Nis Fredy Kuenzler. Gruetzi mitanand’!
Dialogue: 0,0:30:44.91,0:30:50.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I was thinking whether to have the\Ntalk in Swiss German or in English…
Dialogue: 0,0:30:50.62,0:30:52.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Herald: Sorry, excuse me for a moment -\NFredy: Never mind.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:52.66,0:30:57.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Herald: This is unorthodo… when you\Nleave, please leave in peace, and quiet.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:57.24,0:31:00.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Okay? And give him a chance.\NFredy: {\i1}laughs{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:31:00.52,0:31:03.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So Swiss German would be an option for me.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:03.92,0:31:10.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,English, because you know the\NSwiss don’t speak proper German.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:10.51,0:31:18.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My six year old digital native
Dialogue: 0,0:31:18.83,0:31:23.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is telling people rather proud that his\NDad invented the fastest internet
Dialogue: 0,0:31:23.42,0:31:26.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in Switzerland. It’s called Fiber7.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:26.69,0:31:31.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}applause{\i0}\NThank you.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:31.63,0:31:36.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,While we went to Greece for vacation,\NI was in a target conflict,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:36.28,0:31:42.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because I had to explain him\Nwhy he couldn’t watch YouTube.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:42.37,0:31:47.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean Greece, you know\Nit’s maybe a bit difficult,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:47.20,0:31:51.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but as a matter of fact, here\Nin Hamburg it’s not any better.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:51.55,0:31:58.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I’m next door in the hotel InterCity\Nand they offer “free Wi-Fi”
Dialogue: 0,0:31:58.02,0:32:02.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with 256 kbit/s.\N{\i1}laughter{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:32:02.29,0:32:07.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you want 5 Mbit internet,\Nyou pay 8 Euros extra,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:07.95,0:32:13.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,per day. So this is where we are in 2015.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:13.69,0:32:18.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A few words about me: I’m\Nmarried, one son as I said.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:18.06,0:32:23.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He was born 2009. He was\Nable to unlock the iPhone
Dialogue: 0,0:32:23.64,0:32:27.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the age of 17 months.\NNo one showed him how.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:27.90,0:32:31.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}laughter and mumbling{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:32:31.15,0:32:35.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My early connection\Nwith digital techniques
Dialogue: 0,0:32:35.47,0:32:41.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was about 1978 when I was\Nplaying with these chips 7400.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:41.98,0:32:47.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Who knows them? Raise\Nyour hand. – Few, thanks.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:47.19,0:32:53.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Later on I did an apprenticeship as a\NFernmelde- und Elektronikapparatemonteur.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:53.09,0:32:59.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I started to do\NIT business about 1991.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:59.50,0:33:05.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then 1996 – almost 20 years ago –\Nwe started with Linux stuff.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:05.08,0:33:10.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My first Linux was Suse 4.2.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:10.80,0:33:15.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In the year 2000 we started with Init7\Nand later on I became president
Dialogue: 0,0:33:15.41,0:33:20.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the SwissIX association.\NThis is an association
Dialogue: 0,0:33:20.50,0:33:26.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which runs an Internet Exchange. I had\Nalso my time in a startup called Zattoo.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:26.04,0:33:31.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It’s a network architecture\NOTT IP Television.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:31.25,0:33:36.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Besides, I need a hobby, so I’m also\Na politician for the Social Democrats
Dialogue: 0,0:33:36.36,0:33:41.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in my city parliament, already 8 years.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:41.37,0:33:45.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then I started with the other\Nhobby, Fiber7 as you know.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:45.60,0:33:50.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Oh besides, I was also working\Nin an internet expert group
Dialogue: 0,0:33:50.28,0:33:55.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the Social Democrats Switzerland.\NThere the internet paper
Dialogue: 0,0:33:55.34,0:34:01.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was adopted earlier this month
Dialogue: 0,0:34:01.14,0:34:06.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by the national Delegiertenversammlung.\NI don’t know what this is in English.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:06.71,0:34:12.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, Buffering sucks! Ladies and Gentlemen,\Nthis talk is not about Deutsche Telekom.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:12.69,0:34:18.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It’s not about peering. It’s not about\Ninterconnection. It’s about these
Dialogue: 0,0:34:18.49,0:34:24.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,thousands and millions of youngsters out\Nthere which want to watch YouTube
Dialogue: 0,0:34:24.58,0:34:28.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in HD resolution without buffering.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:28.81,0:34:35.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So let’s quickly look at the reason why\NYouTube and all the other video buffer.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:35.39,0:34:40.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It’s usually lack of bandwidth.\NIf you have a 2 Meg DSL
Dialogue: 0,0:34:40.67,0:34:47.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or if you have an InterCity\Nfree Wi-Fi with 250 kilobits;
Dialogue: 0,0:34:47.91,0:34:55.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so HD video is not possible.\NSometimes they have old PCs,
Dialogue: 0,0:34:55.41,0:34:59.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so CPU power is an issue –\Nthese days no longer relevant.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:59.40,0:35:03.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Wi-Fi quality sucks sometimes.\NThis is rather an individual issue.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:03.90,0:35:08.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And sometimes we have an over-subscription
Dialogue: 0,0:35:08.01,0:35:13.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the shared node –\Nmainly in cable networks.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:13.01,0:35:16.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Streaming source can be too far\Naway. If you stream from the U.S.,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:16.86,0:35:22.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it doesn’t really go well.\NThat’s why we have so many CDN,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:22.86,0:35:28.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Content Delivery Network systems,\Nclose to the end users.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:28.65,0:35:32.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then adaptive streaming\Ncan be an advantage,
Dialogue: 0,0:35:32.29,0:35:37.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but also disadvantage. You cannot\Nturn it off. When you watch HD
Dialogue: 0,0:35:37.46,0:35:42.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the connection sucks\Nyou just cannot keep it on HD.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:42.19,0:35:48.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It just drops to SD or lower\Nresolution. It works, yes.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:48.24,0:35:54.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But Claire Underwood in\Nlow-res is not so cool.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:54.25,0:35:58.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Routing algorithm issues – sometimes\Nit’s a mismatch of client and server.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:58.81,0:36:04.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If your client is assigned to the\Nwrong CDN server, then it’s also slow.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:04.34,0:36:08.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Anycast routing is a trick sometimes.\NAnd, last but not least
Dialogue: 0,0:36:08.34,0:36:15.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the most important thing:\NIt’s over-subscribed interconnections.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:15.27,0:36:20.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We go back quickly to the\Nold days. The caller pays.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:20.02,0:36:25.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When you call your mother-in-law\Nand you talk with her
Dialogue: 0,0:36:25.09,0:36:30.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,– well, she talks to you for 45 minutes\Nand you say hello and goodbye –
Dialogue: 0,0:36:30.90,0:36:36.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you still pay the call.\N{\i1}laughter{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:36:36.55,0:36:41.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So with YouTube it’s not any different.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:41.47,0:36:47.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You click YouTube and then YouTube\Ntalks to you for hours maybe
Dialogue: 0,0:36:47.07,0:36:52.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then you say goodbye, basically.\NSo is the broadband customer
Dialogue: 0,0:36:52.34,0:36:57.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,calling the YouTube server or is it vice\Nversa? Is the YouTube server calling
Dialogue: 0,0:36:57.27,0:37:03.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the broadband customer? Probably\Nit’s the broadband customer who calls.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:03.63,0:37:08.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But still the data is flowing\Nfrom the server to the client.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:08.93,0:37:13.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But the client is causing the traffic,\Nbecause he is requesting the traffic.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:13.97,0:37:22.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And if we look at the structure of\Nthe internet, we have basically…
Dialogue: 0,0:37:22.67,0:37:28.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(doesn’t work here, red\Nbutton is dead, never mind!)
Dialogue: 0,0:37:28.20,0:37:31.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,…we have the end user to the right.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:31.77,0:37:35.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have – here is the provider network
Dialogue: 0,0:37:35.13,0:37:41.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the end user is only connected\Nto the provider’s network.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:41.13,0:37:46.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,On the left side we have all the content\Nin the internet. We have the media
Dialogue: 0,0:37:46.25,0:37:52.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and video and streaming\Nand Torrent and… you name it.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:52.22,0:37:59.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But there is always only one\Nway going to the end user.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:59.87,0:38:08.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It’s the yellow marked interconnection\Npoints and there is no way around them.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:08.62,0:38:17.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This basically means, the provider\Ncan monopolize the end customer.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:17.00,0:38:22.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,At least as long [as] he is\Nconnected or subscribed.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:22.56,0:38:26.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is no alternative way.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:26.10,0:38:31.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So this gives the provider
Dialogue: 0,0:38:31.21,0:38:34.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a position of power.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:34.72,0:38:38.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,On the other hand these\Ninterconnection points used to be
Dialogue: 0,0:38:38.12,0:38:44.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,– for a long period of time – so called\NZero Settlement interconnections,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:44.04,0:38:47.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they are basically the\Nfoundation of the internet.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:47.93,0:38:51.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Without Zero Settlement peering,\Nwithout interconnection
Dialogue: 0,0:38:51.63,0:38:56.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the internet wouldn’t exist as we know it.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:56.16,0:39:00.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The broadband provider,\Nmainly the incumbent,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:00.43,0:39:03.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the ex-monopolist,\Nor large cable operators,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:03.91,0:39:07.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they tend to become more\Nand more restrictive
Dialogue: 0,0:39:07.24,0:39:12.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to provide sufficient\Ninterconnection capacity.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:12.21,0:39:16.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Not upgrading interconnection\Nto the requirements
Dialogue: 0,0:39:16.33,0:39:23.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is very common these days and\Nit’s a passive aggressive behaviour.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:23.59,0:39:31.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So many providers – to name\Na few: Deutsche Telekom –
Dialogue: 0,0:39:31.08,0:39:34.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they just do nothing. They just wait.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:34.04,0:39:38.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the end customers are suffering.\NBuffering is very common, especially
Dialogue: 0,0:39:38.48,0:39:43.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,during prime-time.\NThis is basically what the topic of…
Dialogue: 0,0:39:43.95,0:39:48.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,…the main topic of this conference is:\NIt’s a gated community. The provider
Dialogue: 0,0:39:48.62,0:39:57.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,creates a gated community\Nfor his own end customers.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:57.01,0:40:01.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So as I said before:
Dialogue: 0,0:40:01.14,0:40:05.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The data is flowing from the server,\Nfrom the video server to the end customer.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:05.52,0:40:09.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It’s about 50 times more\Ntraffic flowing to the client
Dialogue: 0,0:40:09.66,0:40:15.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the usual traffic ratio we have
Dialogue: 0,0:40:15.74,0:40:20.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for a broadband provider is 1:5\Nor 1:10. So they’re pulling about
Dialogue: 0,0:40:20.58,0:40:26.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,10 times more traffic\Ntowards the end customer.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:26.06,0:40:32.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then we have this interconnection\Npolicy. So they don’t do anything.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:32.29,0:40:37.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As I said before, they just over-subscribe
Dialogue: 0,0:40:37.36,0:40:43.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the existing interconnection.\NAnd if you want to upgrade you have to
Dialogue: 0,0:40:43.01,0:40:48.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have a traffic ratio of\Nabout 1:1.5 to 1.3.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:48.01,0:40:53.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But no video stream service\Ncan deliver traffic
Dialogue: 0,0:40:53.76,0:41:00.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and also maintain the traffic ratio.\NNo content provider can.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:00.00,0:41:04.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So all they can do is: They can\Npay money to get upgraded.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:04.29,0:41:08.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And if they don’t pay,\Ndata is stuck in congestion
Dialogue: 0,0:41:08.81,0:41:18.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and their clients are suffering,\Nseeing the buffering sign.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:18.53,0:41:22.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Large broadband providers, such as\Nthe incumbents and cable providers,
Dialogue: 0,0:41:22.81,0:41:28.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they want to get paid twice.\NThey are able to force the money
Dialogue: 0,0:41:28.86,0:41:32.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,due to the temporary\Nmonopoly – as I explained.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:32.98,0:41:36.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And they can ask money from the end\Ncustomer and on the other hand
Dialogue: 0,0:41:36.86,0:41:40.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,also from the content.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:40.45,0:41:44.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is called double-sided market.\NAnd if they don’t pay,
Dialogue: 0,0:41:44.19,0:41:49.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the content is not paying, this is what we\Nsee. And sometimes – as a side note –
Dialogue: 0,0:41:49.75,0:41:55.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the end customer pays,\Nbut still sees this.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:55.47,0:41:59.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But IP interconnection would be cheap.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:59.54,0:42:04.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The business cost per broadband\Ncustomer is just a few cents per month.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:04.03,0:42:10.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And if the provider would invest\Nthis, people would be happy.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:10.22,0:42:17.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,On top content providers are easy to deal\Nfor peering or provide cache servers etc.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:17.17,0:42:23.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So please talk to our community\Nfellows of Akamai, Apple,
Dialogue: 0,0:42:23.62,0:42:28.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Amazon, Facebook, Google,\NLimelight, Netflix.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:28.80,0:42:36.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,T is not Telekom, it’s Twitch.\NAnd Zattoo, and a lot of others.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:36.11,0:42:40.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So traffic congestion is costly.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:40.28,0:42:45.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I took a random Google\Nsearch and was looking for
Dialogue: 0,0:42:45.28,0:42:51.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how much traffic is actually costing.\NAnd “Die Welt” showed the result:
Dialogue: 0,0:42:51.27,0:42:59.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,“Staus kosten in jedem\NHaushalt 509€/Jahr”.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:59.78,0:43:05.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So my assumption was:\NIf traffic jam is costing money,
Dialogue: 0,0:43:05.31,0:43:09.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then probably data traffic jam\Nis also costing some money.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:09.12,0:43:19.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I figured that no one was\Nreally exploring that field, yet.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:19.14,0:43:22.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I thought I’m going to do\Na little “Milchbüechlirächnig”
Dialogue: 0,0:43:22.96,0:43:26.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}laughter{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:43:26.43,0:43:31.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:43:31.53,0:43:37.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When I was a child, the milk man came\Nevery morning and we just put our order
Dialogue: 0,0:43:37.60,0:43:43.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,into the Milchbüechli and he put the milk\Ninto the box outside of the house.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:43.33,0:43:51.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,By the end of the month, we went to the\Nshop and paid our Milchbüechlirächnig.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:51.13,0:43:55.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So this is my quick calculation: We have\Nabout 30 million broadband connections
Dialogue: 0,0:43:55.21,0:44:03.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in Germany. I assume that everybody is\Nwaiting for one minute accumulated
Dialogue: 0,0:44:03.15,0:44:07.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,while watching Netflix, YouTube,\Nwhatever. Probably this is far too less.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:07.36,0:44:13.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Who thinks one minute is fine, or –\Nwho thinks one minute is not enough?
Dialogue: 0,0:44:13.03,0:44:18.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Oh, ok, so let’s stick with one\Nminute for the calculation.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:18.70,0:44:23.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I also assumed that 5€ / hour waiting
Dialogue: 0,0:44:23.15,0:44:30.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is a good salary. So if you\Nthink, 5€ is not enough,
Dialogue: 0,0:44:30.49,0:44:35.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you can adapt the calculation.\NThis is called “Reservationslohn”.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:35.30,0:44:39.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I have no clue what it means,\Nbut this was on Wikipedia,
Dialogue: 0,0:44:39.85,0:44:43.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for time when you take\Na job or refuse a job,
Dialogue: 0,0:44:43.75,0:44:48.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how much would be the\Nvalue for the spare time.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:48.90,0:44:54.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So this is my calculation: If you wait one\Nminute per day, this is 6 hours per year.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:54.54,0:44:58.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you multiply this with the 5€,
Dialogue: 0,0:44:58.77,0:45:09.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,every broadband customer\Nwould lose 30€ per year.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:09.52,0:45:14.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This sums up\N– with 30 million broadband subscribers -
Dialogue: 0,0:45:14.95,0:45:24.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to 900 million Euros per year. This is the\Neconomic damage in Germany per year.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:24.13,0:45:30.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:45:30.81,0:45:36.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As we can assume that a large\Npart of the buffering is caused
Dialogue: 0,0:45:36.03,0:45:39.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by the insufficient interconnection,\Nespecially during prime-time
Dialogue: 0,0:45:39.48,0:45:44.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when everybody wants to watch\NNetflix. This is also a result
Dialogue: 0,0:45:44.23,0:45:51.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the restrictive peering policy of the\Nincumbent and large cable operators
Dialogue: 0,0:45:51.24,0:45:55.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the ability for them to\Nforce some extra money
Dialogue: 0,0:45:55.44,0:45:59.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,out of these double sided\Nmarket power as I explained.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:59.56,0:46:03.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They probably would gain a few\Nmillions. I don’t have exact figures
Dialogue: 0,0:46:03.80,0:46:09.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I assume it’s probably\Nsome 10..20..30 millions per year,
Dialogue: 0,0:46:09.11,0:46:15.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they could force through\Nthis market power.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:15.53,0:46:19.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,On the other hand we have the damage\Nof 900 Million Euro per year and I mean
Dialogue: 0,0:46:19.93,0:46:27.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this is like a – how do you\Nsay that? – Imbalance.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:27.55,0:46:32.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So my conclusion in democratic\Ncountries like [in] Western Europe:
Dialogue: 0,0:46:32.20,0:46:36.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The economic gain of a multibillion\Ncompany at the expense
Dialogue: 0,0:46:36.32,0:46:42.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the general public is\Ncommonly not tolerated.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:42.46,0:46:47.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The next question is basically following\Nthe previous talk of Thomas:
Dialogue: 0,0:46:47.94,0:46:52.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When will the regulators wake up\Nand force every market participant
Dialogue: 0,0:46:52.59,0:46:58.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to cooperative peering and interconnection\Nbecause the end user is suffering,
Dialogue: 0,0:46:58.08,0:47:01.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the public is suffering.\NZero Settlement peering – as I explained -
Dialogue: 0,0:47:01.93,0:47:06.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is rather common.\NOf course the incumbent,
Dialogue: 0,0:47:06.77,0:47:11.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the Deutsche Telekom lobbyists\Nwould tell otherwise, this is clear.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:11.55,0:47:16.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The unbalanced traffic should no\Nlonger be used to refuse peering;
Dialogue: 0,0:47:16.29,0:47:20.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and also disputes about the\Ninterconnection should be resolved
Dialogue: 0,0:47:20.73,0:47:28.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,rather quick. My case against\NSwisscom is taking years already
Dialogue: 0,0:47:28.30,0:47:31.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and still no end… no light\Nat the end of the tunnel.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:31.84,0:47:37.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then, last but not least we should\Nhave broadband providers…
Dialogue: 0,0:47:37.25,0:47:48.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,must be committed to the interests\Nof their own end user customer base.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:48.49,0:47:54.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As I said, Telekom managed to get paid\Ntwice because of their market power;
Dialogue: 0,0:47:54.51,0:47:59.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and other Telecoms, such as\NTelecom Hungaria or Swisscom,
Dialogue: 0,0:47:59.04,0:48:04.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they use Deutsche Telekom and\Ntheir market power as a leverage
Dialogue: 0,0:48:04.59,0:48:09.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to force their also\Nrestrictive peering policy;
Dialogue: 0,0:48:09.06,0:48:12.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the regulators so far don’t do\Nmuch. I quote here Marc Furrer,
Dialogue: 0,0:48:12.82,0:48:18.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this is the chief of ComCom Switzerland:\N“Nur ein fauler Regulator
Dialogue: 0,0:48:18.01,0:48:21.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ist ein guter Regulator”.\N{\i1}laughing{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:48:21.74,0:48:31.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you! Questions?\N{\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:48:31.71,0:48:37.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Herald: Okay, thank you Fredy; and\Nlet’s have Thomas back up on stage
Dialogue: 0,0:48:37.28,0:48:40.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we’re gonna take questions, please.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:40.85,0:48:44.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is actually more than the\N[number of] mics I said before,
Dialogue: 0,0:48:44.47,0:48:49.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there is two right up on the top\Nand there is three in each aisle.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:49.49,0:48:53.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So if you please line up if you have\Nany questions to ask; and please
Dialogue: 0,0:48:53.84,0:48:58.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,speak into the mic, we need\Nyour questions on tape,
Dialogue: 0,0:48:58.25,0:49:03.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and those who are leaving\Nnow: Do it silently please.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:03.12,0:49:10.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Okay, first question, over there!
Dialogue: 0,0:49:10.30,0:49:14.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Question: I have a question for\NThomas: From your talk it sounds
Dialogue: 0,0:49:14.94,0:49:18.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like you did a lot of work. Can you\Ntell us a little bit about the budgeting,
Dialogue: 0,0:49:18.60,0:49:22.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that goes into having a team like that?
Dialogue: 0,0:49:22.20,0:49:27.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,T: Yeah, so, SaveTheInternet\Nis a coalition of 12 NGOs
Dialogue: 0,0:49:27.41,0:49:31.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which have all their independent\Nbudget. There is no fixed budget
Dialogue: 0,0:49:31.91,0:49:35.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for the work that we have\Nbeen doing as a whole.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:35.94,0:49:39.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,All of them have transparency\Nreports. So I can not really speak
Dialogue: 0,0:49:39.71,0:49:46.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for the budget of EDRI or accessnow. The\Norganization where I am based in Austria
Dialogue: 0,0:49:46.85,0:49:52.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,got a grant from the media democracy\Nfoundation from 10.000€;
Dialogue: 0,0:49:52.23,0:49:57.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and money from Netflix, 10.000€ also.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:57.37,0:50:00.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we used both for development\Nand paying for the faxes. Because
Dialogue: 0,0:50:00.70,0:50:04.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the second round of the fax tool\Nthe provider that it was referring to
Dialogue: 0,0:50:04.94,0:50:08.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was no longer paying.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:08.21,0:50:13.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Otherwise the funding in general about\NDigital Rights in Europe is awfully low.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:13.78,0:50:18.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So if you compare it to the U.S.\Nwhere you had double-digit millions
Dialogue: 0,0:50:18.47,0:50:23.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,going into the lobbying it is\Nridiculous what resources we have
Dialogue: 0,0:50:23.62,0:50:28.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,here in Europe; and we are thinking\Nabout making a donation tool
Dialogue: 0,0:50:28.80,0:50:33.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for the new SaveTheInternet;\Nbut again, that’s complicated
Dialogue: 0,0:50:33.07,0:50:37.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because you have 12 NGOs with\Nvery different activity scales.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:37.74,0:50:41.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Like some of them do a lot, others\Nnot so much. So how would you divide
Dialogue: 0,0:50:41.28,0:50:45.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the money? These are unresolved questions,\Nthat we are working on right now.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:45.18,0:50:48.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you wanna support us with independent\Nfunding, then just donate to
Dialogue: 0,0:50:48.70,0:50:55.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the individual organizations.\NEDRI, Initiative für Netzfreiheit,
Dialogue: 0,0:50:55.48,0:50:58.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are probably the ones I would mention\Nmost, because they have done
Dialogue: 0,0:50:58.89,0:51:02.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,most of the work; accessnow as well,\Nbut they generally have a lot of funding
Dialogue: 0,0:51:02.54,0:51:04.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from the U.S., so I don’t think\Nthey need it that much.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:04.70,0:51:08.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Q: But to summarize, I saw a picture of\Nyour team. I saw all the work you did.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:08.28,0:51:13.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You did that for 20.000€?\NT: No. I never got a Cent.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:13.65,0:51:17.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I was paid by EDRI for 4 months\Nwhen I was working in Brussels
Dialogue: 0,0:51:17.31,0:51:20.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,within BEREC for the first reading;\Nbut otherwise this was mostly free time.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:20.88,0:51:25.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I got my expenses covered for travel\Nbut other than that I am doing this
Dialogue: 0,0:51:25.77,0:51:36.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in my spare time. Also now I’m employed…\N{\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:51:36.53,0:51:39.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,…I work for Data Protection NGOs,\Nso they are allowing me to do
Dialogue: 0,0:51:39.41,0:51:43.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a lot of my stuff also for Net Neutrality.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:43.26,0:51:48.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Herald: We’re all elephants. We do it\Nfor peanuts. Okay, No.1 go ahead!
Dialogue: 0,0:51:48.69,0:51:55.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mic 1: Yeah, hello! Hi Thomas, thanks\Na lot for your work, that’s great.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:55.20,0:51:59.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I have a question about the involvement\Nof the business, the angels
Dialogue: 0,0:51:59.45,0:52:03.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the companies: What is the\Nreason, what do you think
Dialogue: 0,0:52:03.20,0:52:08.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,why they came so late into\Nthis discussion in Germany.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:08.66,0:52:12.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What probably can we do to change\Nthis in the future because
Dialogue: 0,0:52:12.80,0:52:17.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think that’s a… they\Nare great allies in this fight.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:17.63,0:52:21.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thomas: That’s… you’re asking\Nexactly the right question.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:21.43,0:52:25.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Sadly, in Europe you have no\Norganized voice for startups
Dialogue: 0,0:52:25.81,0:52:30.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or for SMEs when it comes\Nto Digital Rights issues;
Dialogue: 0,0:52:30.25,0:52:33.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you would have to work with them\Nto get them involved in the debate.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:33.74,0:52:37.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They were really late to the party\Nand then, again, mostly activated
Dialogue: 0,0:52:37.48,0:52:44.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,through U.S. networks. So the connection\Nbetween the civil rights scene here
Dialogue: 0,0:52:44.23,0:52:48.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the business scene, particularly the\None which is organized in Brussels
Dialogue: 0,0:52:48.92,0:52:53.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with European umbrellas is very weak.\NSo everything you can do there
Dialogue: 0,0:52:53.62,0:52:57.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to strengthen this connection\Nwould be great.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:57.85,0:53:00.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I don’t have those business\Ncontacts. I got a few people involved
Dialogue: 0,0:53:00.94,0:53:04.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the first reading stuff but we’ll\Ndefinitely need more people that
Dialogue: 0,0:53:04.36,0:53:08.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,act as multipliers to get more\Ncompanies involved, particularly now
Dialogue: 0,0:53:08.84,0:53:13.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when we enter into a new phase\Nwith the BEREC guidelines.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:13.28,0:53:17.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We no longer need the loud arguments of…
Dialogue: 0,0:53:17.53,0:53:21.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,…of many people, we need more the\Narguments from the business side,
Dialogue: 0,0:53:21.83,0:53:26.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from the universities, from those people\Nwho run networks. These arguments are
Dialogue: 0,0:53:26.19,0:53:29.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,better suited to make\Na difference with the regulators.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:29.61,0:53:35.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Fredy: And to add: Don’t underestimate\Nthe influence of the lobbies,
Dialogue: 0,0:53:35.99,0:53:40.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the big names, the Telecoms\Nand the liberty globals…
Dialogue: 0,0:53:40.68,0:53:46.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They have a lot of money and they\Ntry to influence the politicians
Dialogue: 0,0:53:46.19,0:53:51.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as good as they can. They do\Na good job from their perspective.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:51.49,0:53:57.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thomas: You can be sure that the Telecoms\Nwill have people for all 28 regulators,
Dialogue: 0,0:53:57.76,0:54:01.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,now continuously lobbying for an\Nupcoming 9 months. The question is:
Dialogue: 0,0:54:01.52,0:54:05.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Who is in our team?
Dialogue: 0,0:54:05.61,0:54:11.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Herald: OK. Thank you. Is there a question\Nfrom the internet? While we’re at it?
Dialogue: 0,0:54:11.23,0:54:16.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Signal Angel: Yes, there is a question,\Nit is: Whether peering providers
Dialogue: 0,0:54:16.25,0:54:19.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,should differentiate between\Nvirtual private network traffic
Dialogue: 0,0:54:19.44,0:54:23.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and public traffic; and where is the line
Dialogue: 0,0:54:23.01,0:54:30.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,between internal network\Nand the public internet?
Dialogue: 0,0:54:30.73,0:54:36.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Fredy: What should I say… this is\Ndifficult question, I mean… Basically,
Dialogue: 0,0:54:36.56,0:54:43.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if you over-commit your backbone\Nthen there is always plenty of traffic…
Dialogue: 0,0:54:43.35,0:54:49.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or plenty of capacity. So there is…\Nthere shouldn’t be any differentiation.
Dialogue: 0,0:54:49.71,0:54:56.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Networks should provide enough\Ncapacity and then we’re good.
Dialogue: 0,0:54:56.71,0:55:00.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A common argument from the big names:
Dialogue: 0,0:55:00.70,0:55:06.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,“Oh we are investing millions and millions\Nand millions in broadband expansion”,
Dialogue: 0,0:55:06.73,0:55:12.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but unfortunately they stop investing\Nright at the end of their own backbone
Dialogue: 0,0:55:12.35,0:55:17.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so they don’t invest any money\Nbeyond their little percentage
Dialogue: 0,0:55:17.42,0:55:24.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the total investment\Nfor their interconnections.
Dialogue: 0,0:55:24.24,0:55:28.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Herald: Okay, there is\Nanother question at No.1?
Dialogue: 0,0:55:28.73,0:55:33.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mic 1: I have a question about buffering:\NSo the most of the content in the web is
Dialogue: 0,0:55:33.22,0:55:38.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,delivered over TCP/IP and…\Nwill changing the media
Dialogue: 0,0:55:38.14,0:55:43.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to something like UDP which has\Nlower overhead over TCP/IP;
Dialogue: 0,0:55:43.45,0:55:47.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,will that change the situation?
Dialogue: 0,0:55:47.02,0:55:48.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Fredy: Not really.\NMic 1: No?
Dialogue: 0,0:55:48.40,0:55:53.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Fredy: No. It won’t help. I mean\Npacket loss is packet loss
Dialogue: 0,0:55:53.96,0:56:01.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,regardless whether it’s TCP or it’s UDP.
Dialogue: 0,0:56:01.53,0:56:07.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Herald: OK, that was a short answer. Next\Nquestion please. Please talk into the mic.
Dialogue: 0,0:56:07.22,0:56:10.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mic: So when I came here, this\Nyear, I had the impression that
Dialogue: 0,0:56:10.63,0:56:15.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at digital subscriber line connections
Dialogue: 0,0:56:15.03,0:56:19.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not only bandwidth is bad but also the
Dialogue: 0,0:56:19.63,0:56:23.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ping [time] gets up way high.\NOf course, I mean,
Dialogue: 0,0:56:23.90,0:56:28.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at home I have Fiber7 nowadays\Nso I just thought I got spoiled
Dialogue: 0,0:56:28.25,0:56:33.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by fiber connections but I noticed\Nthat ping times went up
Dialogue: 0,0:56:33.38,0:56:38.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from, well, couple of years ago 60-80 ms
Dialogue: 0,0:56:38.49,0:56:42.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from sites in your neighborhood\Nmore or less
Dialogue: 0,0:56:42.49,0:56:48.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to nowadays 80-160ms.\NWhere is the problem there?
Dialogue: 0,0:56:48.62,0:56:52.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Fredy: Well, the latency\Nis directly related
Dialogue: 0,0:56:52.31,0:56:56.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if the provider is not delivering\Nenough bandwidth,
Dialogue: 0,0:56:56.16,0:57:03.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then ping goes up that’s\Na normal behaviour of TCP.
Dialogue: 0,0:57:03.21,0:57:08.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mic: So the problem is also\Nat the interconnection sites?
Dialogue: 0,0:57:08.24,0:57:13.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Fredy: Probably yes, most likely,\Nyou can find out if you do traceroute.
Dialogue: 0,0:57:13.36,0:57:19.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then you see where… well,\Nthere is a long presentation
Dialogue: 0,0:57:19.22,0:57:24.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how to interpret traceroute properly.\NIf you look for “Nanog traceroute”
Dialogue: 0,0:57:24.66,0:57:31.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you should find this lecture. But that\Nwould probably give some indication.
Dialogue: 0,0:57:31.47,0:57:35.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mic: Alright, thank you.\NHerald: Thank you. Next question from
Dialogue: 0,0:57:35.18,0:57:39.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the internet, just in between and\Nthen we’ll go back, go ahead.
Dialogue: 0,0:57:39.07,0:57:43.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Signal Angel: “Is Netflix a gated\Ncommunity by itself?” and
Dialogue: 0,0:57:43.22,0:57:46.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,“Are you sure that their interest\Nwill align with the movement
Dialogue: 0,0:57:46.52,0:57:52.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of net neutrality in the long run?”
Dialogue: 0,0:57:52.05,0:57:56.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Fredy: We should differentiate\Nbetween Netflix content
Dialogue: 0,0:57:56.59,0:58:02.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and Netflix interconnections. So for\Nthe content I probably would say:
Dialogue: 0,0:58:02.18,0:58:07.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yes. But I am not the expert. This would\Nbe then layer 7 in the OSI model.
Dialogue: 0,0:58:07.54,0:58:11.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I am talking here on layer 3,\Nthis is content agnostic.
Dialogue: 0,0:58:11.84,0:58:17.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Netflix, they are one of the good\Nguys because they really help
Dialogue: 0,0:58:17.07,0:58:24.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to deliver the packets. I know\Nthem personally a few fellows
Dialogue: 0,0:58:24.17,0:58:30.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from the peering community.\NThey are the good guys, definitely.
Dialogue: 0,0:58:30.00,0:58:33.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thomas: Just also to answer this\Nquestion for the European debate,
Dialogue: 0,0:58:33.39,0:58:37.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Netflix was one of the good guys in the\NU.S. and they also supported of course
Dialogue: 0,0:58:37.40,0:58:41.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the European movement. But again, they are\Nso big that I wouldn’t really trust them
Dialogue: 0,0:58:41.12,0:58:45.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as an ally because they could\Nalso pay, they could also survive
Dialogue: 0,0:58:45.41,0:58:50.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in a double sided market and for them\Nin the growing emerging markets
Dialogue: 0,0:58:50.90,0:58:55.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like Europe where they just have started\Nit’s probably risky to allow for this
Dialogue: 0,0:58:55.87,0:59:02.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,new type of anti net neutrality business\Nmodels; but in the consumer side
Dialogue: 0,0:59:02.03,0:59:06.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where net neutrality is seen as an end\Nuser issue I think so far their interests
Dialogue: 0,0:59:06.53,0:59:10.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,mostly align. On interconnection they\Nhave their own interests, of course.
Dialogue: 0,0:59:10.96,0:59:14.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Fredy: So I can say: Netflix is\Ndefinitely paying Deutsche Telekom,
Dialogue: 0,0:59:14.82,0:59:18.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,otherwise no single Deutsche Telekom user
Dialogue: 0,0:59:18.79,0:59:24.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would be able to watch any\Nmovie on Netflix! So! For sure!
Dialogue: 0,0:59:24.05,0:59:27.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Herald: Okay, we are short for\Ntime so please, last 2 questions.
Dialogue: 0,0:59:27.22,0:59:31.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One, no.2 first. Keep it short,\Nplease. Talk into the mic.
Dialogue: 0,0:59:31.00,0:59:35.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mic 2: Regarding the first talk: What\Nis the… do you have an explanation for
Dialogue: 0,0:59:35.80,0:59:41.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the behaviour of the European Commission\Nin behave of the net neutrality debate?
Dialogue: 0,0:59:41.60,0:59:45.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I especially think of the behaviour\Nof Guenther Oettinger
Dialogue: 0,0:59:45.56,0:59:51.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who repeatedly said his ridiculous lie
Dialogue: 0,0:59:51.78,0:59:57.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of “net neutrality kills” and\Nhe repeated it again and again
Dialogue: 0,0:59:57.34,1:00:03.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even if there was no reason\Nbehind it. And do you
Dialogue: 0,1:00:03.92,1:00:08.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have an explanation for this behavior\Nof the Commission, and Juncker and this?
Dialogue: 0,1:00:08.56,1:00:12.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thomas: For that argument, we had this\Ngreat YouTube video “net neutrality kills”.
Dialogue: 0,1:00:12.09,1:00:16.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you search it you will find it or\N“Netzneutralität tötet” in German.
Dialogue: 0,1:00:16.04,1:00:19.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That deconstructs this argument of\NOettinger. But in general, and you can
Dialogue: 0,1:00:19.82,1:00:23.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,go back to the previous commissioner\NNeelie Kroes that I showed.
Dialogue: 0,1:00:23.91,1:00:26.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Our sole suspicion is that the deal\Nwas that the telecom industry
Dialogue: 0,1:00:26.93,1:00:30.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has to give up a little bit of their\Nprofits when it comes to Roaming,
Dialogue: 0,1:00:30.20,1:00:33.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but on the other side they gain a lot\Nof future profits on the abolishment
Dialogue: 0,1:00:33.94,1:00:37.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of net neutrality. And so it was like:\N“Okay, we need a populist argument”,
Dialogue: 0,1:00:37.48,1:00:41.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Neelie Kroes also needs a quick\Nwin at the end of her career.
Dialogue: 0,1:00:41.86,1:00:46.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And this was again like you take\Na little bit there and put it there
Dialogue: 0,1:00:46.96,1:00:51.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for the Telecoms industry. And Oettinger\Nis a big industrial favour guy,
Dialogue: 0,1:00:51.56,1:00:54.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he is always for big business.
Dialogue: 0,1:00:54.93,1:00:58.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Herald: Okay, short for time,\Nlast question, No.1.
Dialogue: 0,1:00:58.56,1:01:03.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Mic 1: Hi, so what strategy should an ISP\Nuse when their capacity on their backbones
Dialogue: 0,1:01:03.13,1:01:09.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is fully loaded? Like first-in-first-out\Nor what is your idea about that, because
Dialogue: 0,1:01:09.27,1:01:13.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the capacity is limited, so when there is\Nso much traffic that everything is stuck.
Dialogue: 0,1:01:13.19,1:01:15.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Fredy: Upgrade!\NThomas: Yes, invest in the network!
Dialogue: 0,1:01:15.38,1:01:21.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Fredy: I mean, sorry, a 10G port is now\Nsome 3000€ including optic and cross
Dialogue: 0,1:01:21.58,1:01:27.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,connect. It’s not that much. Upgrade!
Dialogue: 0,1:01:27.29,1:01:30.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Herald: Okay, thank you!\NLet’s have a hand!
Dialogue: 0,1:01:30.24,1:01:32.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,1:01:32.42,1:01:38.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Fredy Kuenzler, Thomas Lohninger.\NThank you very much! And goodbye.
Dialogue: 0,1:01:38.25,1:01:43.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}postroll music{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,1:01:43.92,1:01:49.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}Subtitles created by c3subtitles.de\Nin the year 2016. Join and help us!{\i0}